Grand Jury fails to indict NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo for killing Eric Garner

Wednesday, December 3, 2014

Good evening:

Despite a video showing NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo choking Eric Garner to death as he complained 11 times that he could not breathe, a grand jury refused to indict him for murder in yet another gross miscarriage of justice.

Kelly Thomas, Part 2.

This outrage is not acceptable. Our criminal justice system is irretrievably broken.

I am disgusted.

Your thoughts?

89 Responses to Grand Jury fails to indict NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo for killing Eric Garner

  1. MDX says:

    And legal experts appear to disagree with you.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/andrew-napolitano-eric-garner_n_6265026.html

    ‘Judge Andrew Napolitano, the senior judicial analyst for Fox News, said Wednesday that he was shocked by a grand jury’s decision not to indict a New York City police officer in the chokehold death of Eric Garner, describing Garner’s death as “criminally negligent homicide.”…’

    • Malisha says:

      And Napolitano is no angel; when he was a general jurisdiction-level judge in the New Jersey court system he was a sitting demon on the bench, made up crap, lied, arranged for verdicts in private conferences, you name it. If HE is saying it was negligent homicide, I’d make a safe bet it was a lot worse than THAT. (Either that or Pantaleo made an enemy where he shouldn’t’ve.)

    • Daniel M says:

      And you don’t think I can’t find a legal expert who things the exact opposite? Cmon

      • Eric says:

        Daniel, I love engaging with conservatives as much as you enjoy engaging with liberals. And, yes, I, too, confess that I’ve trolled from time to time. But, you’re becoming desperate and your sophistry is banal. 😉 And, enough with the “choke hold” red herring….and, that’s what it is–a red herring. The NYPD’s actions caused Garner’s death.

        Our volleys back and forth means that the ‘probable cause’ standard was clearly met (actually, EXCEEDED). This explains the anger of us ’emotional’ liberals. We know that the game is rigged and this latest case proves it for everybody to see.

        Second, this trope about Garner resisting is as bogus as they come. These officers rousted him then escalated unnecessarily. Garner was “resisting” in much the same way Rodney King was “resisting.” That’s pretty much how I feel about that issue.

        Third, your “woe is me working class white” tune doesn’t really fly either. White privilege means that the likelihood of you being treated like Garner is a lot less because you are white. This is not an issue we need to speculate about since this is what we see all the time. Police engage whites respectfully, while they engage non-whites confrontationally. It’s not a coincidence that the only unarmed people the NYPD seems to kill are black and brown.

        • Daniel is a ‘concern’ troll.

          He was repeating right wing garbage from Hannity, Giuliani, Peter King and other racist scumbags.

          He’s gone now. I banished him.

          I shouldn’t even have bothered to engage him.

          Waste of time.

          Sorry.

          • Malisha says:

            In a sense it’s a relief that he was a “concern troll” because to me, a person NOT SEEING what has really been happening is a scary thought, and in general, only intelligent people blog here.

          • MDX says:

            I think he is intelligent and evil. You see “him” under various monikers on Daily Kos. The tells are:

            He is trained in martial arts

            He was poor, white and had to deal with minorities

            He pulled himself up by his bootstraps

            He has guns and has had to fight out of dire situations

            He has gone on ride-alongs with the police

            IMO, these “He people” are a creation of R(w)hite wing think tanks to poison the well of progressive blogs.

          • Exactly my impression.

            He was stating the same set of ridiculous right wing talking points being uttered at FOX and he came prepared to argue with the same set of illegitimate sources as though he had been instructed where to go and what to say.

            I have no doubt they get paid to go on progressive blogs and feign legitimacy by agreeing with some points while pretending to be concerned about certain ‘serious’ issues that are transparently right wing drivel. For example, his silly effort to legitimize what Pantaleo did by distinguishing between a choke hold and pressuring the carotid artery when they are close together and Pantaleo was applying considerable pressure against both using his forearm like a straight bar as Garner said, “I can’t breathe” 11 times before losing consciousness. The ME classified Garner’s death as a homicide by choke hold; yet, the fool with the MS degree who has studied interracial marriages knows more about pathology and causes of death than the ME and more about the law than I do.

            Laughable.

  2. MDX says:

    “According to medical examiner spokeswoman Julie Bolcer, Garner was killed by “…the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police… Asthma, heart disease and obesity were contributing factors…”

    The medical examiner, while ruling the death a homicide, said there was no damage to neck or windpipe and so therefore it isn’t a chokehold.”

    An ethical person, when they cite text to support a claim, give a link so that those assessing the veracity of said claim can see the cite in context.

    For example, you are claiming that neck compression was not the cause of death.

    Well.

    http://time.com/3618279/eric-garner-chokehold-crime-staten-island-daniel-pantaleo/

    Cite:

    On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was “homicide,” specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleo’s chokehold and “the compression of [Garner’s] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” according to spokeswoman, Julie Bolcer.

    So please, in the future, provide links to back up what you state as fact.

  3. Greg Beasley says:

    Anonymous posted that the only person who went to jail over this murder was the person who filmed it. I remember seeing the horrifying video of the Oscar Grant execution in Oakland, CA. He only got 2 years and served 8 months I believe. Involuntary manslaughter doesn’t mean much when you are a cop.

    • Greg Beasley says:

      I forgot to add that when Oscar Grant was executed, his fellow officers tried to confiscate cell phones of civilians that were recording. It is quite common for pigs to tamper with evidence and become accessories after the fact to murder.

  4. Malisha says:

    Just soze we all know one important thing about people hiring lawyers to defend their civil rights, or women going to “the law” for protection from batterers.

    Let’s take the civil rights folks first. Lawyers take these cases on contingency, for “free,” right? HA HA HA. They take a case where a truck rammed into the back of a volkswagen and killed three kids and the mom and crippled the DAD and in that case, they take 33% of what (four years later) becomes the settlement. By that time the insurance company’s lawyers have earned more and paid more to experts than the plaintiffs ever collect. As far as other plaintiffs’ lawyers are concerned,if it’s to protect your RIGHTS and there’s no huge outlay of money expected at the end of it, no lawyer even will give you a free consult. Half an hour’s time? $250 in advance.

    Battered women? Here’s how THAT one goes. The woman goes to get a protective order and the guy then sues her for divorce and custody and gets her kids away. She’s lost her job already so she gets jailed for six months for nonpayment of child support.

    The better idea is that abusers, bullies and killers need to be prosecuted for what they have done. And ALL forms of blaming-the-victim must be called out and they must STOP.

    • Daniel M says:

      Now this is blatantly incorrect. Giving a 30 minute consultation is their marketing. I am never had a lawyer not give mt the time of day. That is just BS.

      You are right, lawyers will drag this on for so long and you will get a small chunk. But for all those lawyers to get paid someone has to lose. Nobody including the state wants to be on the receiving end.

      LOL at the 3rd paragraph. Having a bs restraining order that follows a background check for years, men getting a child over the women? What state do you live in? Judges notoriously favor the women.

      4th paragraph I agree.

      • Malisha says:

        You just showed me you go with the common beliefs, but they are wrong. “Judges notoriously favor the women” was partly true for approximately 30 years IF the woman (a) could afford a bomber lawyer; and (b) did not give the judge any feelings he (or she) disliked; and (c) had never so much as been five minutes late to work in her life. Starting in the late 1970s, men who CONTEST custody win 60% of the time, thereafter 80% of the appeals, and if there are claims of abuse AGAINST the men, the proportion of paternal custody goes up to 84-92%, and that’s in every study that has been done except by the purveyors of false “facts.”

        • Daniel M says:

          Hold the phone, I am wrong but you state “The woman goes to get a protective order and the guy then sues her for divorce and custody and gets her kids away.”

          You are saying that men always get custody from your statement.

          It is a case by case scenerio but here actual studies. Unless these studies are all false facts?

          An Ohio study published in Family Advocate found that fathers seeking sole custody obtain it in less than 10% of cases, and a Utah study conducted over 23 years found similar results.

          According to the 2000 Census Bureau report, mothers comprise 85% of all custodial parents.
          – “Fathers Bear the Brunt of Gender Bias in Family Courts” – Dianna Thompson and Glenn Sacks (2002-08-19).

          First, let’s examine a direct look by Census at children’s post-divorce living arrangements. Here, we find that 82 percent of children living with a divorced parent live with the mother, a circumstance that as of 2011 data had not changed significantly since 1994.

          Here is the most recent Census:

          http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p60-246.pdf

          • Malisha says:

            CONTESTED custody cases. CONTESTED.

            Furthermore, a father getting “sole” custody is not the measure of paternal custody. They CALL nearly all custody “joint” but give the father residential custody and make the mother pay child support (“Let’s see how THEY like it”) and restrict their “custodial time” so that it equals less than what used to be called “visitation” in the old days. This is all part of what the Fatherhood Initiative and the “Joint Custody Children’s Rights” groups did (comprised mostly of male lawyers, by the way) in the last two decades.

            Mothers who have custody usually have it because there WERE no custody battles. Battered wives tend to LOSE custody. TO the batterers. Furthermore, if a woman needs to go to a shelter, they won’t take the kids because the batterer has custodial rights and that includes knowing WHERE HIS KIDS ARE.

  5. Daniel Mosco says:

    Usually I don’t post on controversial issues but I thought I would bring certain up certain points.
    1. I keep hearing people use the words “illegal chokehold”. The chokehold is against NYPD policy but not against the law. NYPD defines a chokehold as an air choke and not a blood choke as the handbook states “any pressure to the throat or windpipe”. The autopsy showed no damage to the windpipe. The blood chokehold is taught in most martial arts schools as well as MMA. Bouncers implore this move daily as a non-lethal alternative to subdue hostile patrons. Although chokeholds are not full proof, experts agree, it is safer than a knock out. I would assume as safe as a Taser, baton or pepper spray. If applied wrong the windpipe is still pretty flexible and it takes minutes for a blood choke to start causing brain death. The problem is all bets are off when someone has underlying medical conditions.

    2. Most people are opposed to racism and segregation but only strengthen the divide with their hypocritical views. When blaming a group (an entire police force) for a select few actions, that is when we cause a divide. I for one think that the people involved should be accountable not others just because of their color (blue uniform). I am sure most cops just want to collect their paycheck and end the day like all of us.

    3.
    When forming your opinion you should research the facts yourself and not look at online rants.
    It was funny when the press was interviewing some protestors, how ignorant they were when the facts were present. Some people just like to stir the pot and have no clue what they are fighting for. This gets the wrong people in your corner and cheapens the argument and the cause.

    This is what brings me to my questions:

    I am in no way pro police but it is hard to believe the vast differences of opinions even when video is present. If most African Americans are in fear of police, why do they not act on their best behavior when approached by one? When I am in another Country or even in another state, I am on my best behavior to everyone because I do not know their laws, customs and views. I actually think everyone should act like that in all circumstances but that is farfetched. Yes sir, no sir, I am sorry sir. Even people with anger issues need a reason in most cases.

    With civil rights becoming such a big issue and most lawyers now working on contingency, why don’t all citizens in general voice their opinion in court rather than on the street? A contingency lawsuit is a zero dollar investment while defending in a criminal suit is hundreds of thousands. I think more people need to be humbling and think before they act. Tough guys might feel good in the moment but either end up broke or dead in the long run and that is the truth for humans in general.
    If you believe that cops are targeting you, wouldn’t the 30 other arrests be a clue to stop doing illegal activities? It is sad but in most cases IRS tax evasion is worse than murder. I would assume the states are not much better when it comes to money. I can understand a first time arrestee not knowing the deal but at 30 arrests, you should know what to expect.
    I also like to point out that police officers are in no way genetically gifted athletes, fighters or intelligence. A lot of people put cops on a pedestal but they are in no way better than us. When I approach police, I think of them as little children. They are not strong, fear easily and can get you in a lot of trouble if you hit them. I do not know what is considered reasonable fear for them, so I try not to instill fear. Most jobs are not a calling and are just a paycheck, so I don’t expect them to be a super cop.
    The video I saw the police gave Mr. Garner a couple of warnings. I am curious as to how many warning people believe is fair before action is taken? If only two cops were present do you believe swift action was justified? I can see officers becoming targets if they need to beg a person to put their hands behind their backs. If you ever had to make a citizen’s arrest, think about how scared you would be if a confrontation happened. Would you fight fair not knowing what the person is capable of? Most of us just avoid or don’t do anything but police don’t have that luxury. Good Samaritans are rare because we all know the legal ramifications of a mistake.
    Sorry for the long post. I believe nobody has the right to take human life but I also feel that prison is not always the answer. It is very hard for me to justify prison for someone that had no clear intent or malice to commit a heinous act. Prison was meant to separate people who are a threat to society and not involuntary acts. I am sure the cops’ life is ruined and will never work in any type of law enforcement again which is punishment. Prison on the other hand hurts the tax payers will probably harden the person when paroled, and will cost us even more when unemployment pays someone nobody will hire.
    In cases like these nobody wins.

    • Eric says:

      Before I respond in greater detail, you do realize that the very essence of manslaughter is that it is an act that is often committed with “no clear intent or malice to commit a heinous act,” right?

      • Daniel M says:

        Yes of course I do. I just find it very difficult to put someone in prison for an act where there was no intent or malice to hurt another regardless of statute. Play fighting between friends, a simple push, statutory rape in a state without Romeo and Juliet laws, falling asleep behind the wheel with a good night’s rest. I hope to never be in a situation like this or have to judge someone in that predicament. For me the guilt alone would be death. Prison and punishment is not always justice. I am sure you have seen cases where everyone was outraged at the verdict but most people don’t assert Jury Nullification.
        I normally look at comments about a controversial matter months later and notice as anger subsides, logic prevails. People start to realize that two wrongs really do not make a right and anger is a very powerful emotion that clouds judgment.
        Although any death is an outrage, most comments I read are one liners with a blood will have blood mentality. The internet is full of people that like to plat devil’s advocate and stir the pot. I try to put myself in both peoples shoes and speak intelligently to get the perspective of other intelligent people who know the facts at hand. Free speech is very powerful. In the internet ERA what you write is for everyone to see including influential children.

    • Malisha says:

      Woah Woah Woah —

      If most African Americans are in fear of police, why do they not act on their best behavior when approached by one? When I am in another Country or even in another state, I am on my best behavior to everyone because I do not know their laws, customs and views. I actually think everyone should act like that in all circumstances but that is farfetched. Yes sir, no sir, I am sorry sir. Even people with anger issues need a reason in most cases.

      OK. Let me take a deep breath first.

      If a wife is in fear of her husband because she says he beats her, why doesn’t she act on her best behavior when he’s home? When I am in the presence of someone I think might get violent, act on my best behavior to him because I do not know what he might do. I actually think everyone should act like that in all circumstances but that is farfetched. Yes sir, no sir, I am sorry sir, whatever you say sir, you’re correct I really am deficient sir, your wish is my command sir. Even people with anger issues need a reason in most cases.

      See it now?

      • Daniel M says:

        You are taking what I am saying way out of context. If a husband is beating a wife. It is a bad move to scream at him, push him, incite him to prove a point. You move out, call a lawyer and handle everything in a civil matter.

        A lot of people are “in the moment” and don’t stop to think, is this the best way to handle it.

        • Malisha says:

          And what evidence do we have that any of the recent victims of police murders are guilty of their own deaths because they did not think of the “best way to handle it”? And your analogy is wrong. You say you must act especially carefully in another country or someone else’s culture. OUR citizens (yes, even those African Americans in Ferguson or Staten Island or Sanford) should not have to behave as if they are in foreign territory trying to respect the culture of some other people so they are not out of line. Who can live like that every day in every way? Also with the battered wife, I beg to inform you that “wives making bad moves to incite him to prove a point” is not the problem and actually, the wives who move out are the ones most likely to be murdered by their angry batterers. You cannot choose to “handle everything in a civil matter” unless the person bullying you chooses to LET you do that. Walk a mile in the victim’s moccasins.

      • Daniel M says:

        I don’t think you read my entire post. I said all people. Most people have too much pride and that gets them killed. I am a very humble guy and that is why I never get into confrontations. I am no small guy and have taken martial arts for several years but martial arts taught me to be humble.
        If I spill someone’s drink I buy them a new one, if I did something wrong I apologize, if I insulted someone I insult myself in retaliation. All I see is a bunch of wanna be tough guys.
        Did Garner do something illegal? Yes. So when the police confronted him, man up and take your punishment. If Garner just said I was wrong and put his hands behind his back, he would be alive today. Can anyone argue that?
        Even the ACLU states to never argue with a cop on the scene. If there is anything wrong, retain an attorney and sort it out when everyone’s tensions are down.
        Sociology taught me a lot about human behavior. Write a comparative essay and debate for both sides of the argument. You will see both sides of the story. That is why my posts are not about race but about what can we learn from both sides. If you want to be a martyr for your cause that is on you, but I would prefer to live and wait until I have home court advantage. Lawyers take civil rights lawsuits on contingency because the payouts have been favorable to the plaintiff.
        And about the wife I am correct. Although wives can still be killed when they do everything the civil way, the chances are less. Why do you think police are most worried about domestic disputes? When love, despair and anger combine, it is very dangerous and unpredictable. The worst thing you can do is confront someone when they are angry. Name one instance where anger helps in the situation. And with all these civil protests when someone is being beaten a cop is going to say “excuse me, please stop beating her, please, 10 more pleases and I will use force.

        I have talked to both police and African Americans who believe in racism and that is how I formed my opinion. Go on a police ride along you will see.

    • racerrodig says:

      “If most African Americans are in fear of police, why do they not act on their best behavior when approached by one? ”

      So they can be themselves when a cop is around. Now they get popped for acting suspiciously.

      Robbie the racist spewed that same racist crap 2 years ago. You realize that virtually 100% of the murders we chime in on here the black victim was minding their own business.

      Mike Brown……walking down the street
      Trayvon Martin…..walking on a sidewalk
      Kendrick Johnson……in gym class
      Renisha McBride…….looking for help due to an accident
      Jordan Davis……sitting in an SUV
      Eric Garner…….minding his own business

      If you choke someone to death……….it’s murder and since he was in blatant violation, and caught on video, of using a banned maneuver, does that exonerate him ?? No…..he’s a murderer and there is video proof. Garner told him 11 times he was in agony and couldn’t breathe. The 1st time he said it, it means lighten up.

      This same thing happened in the town I live in NJ and that cop only avoided prison by copping and retiring and all pension forfeited. He can’t hold any public job either.

      This same cop has been a menace before so your argument about this cop not deserving prison flew out the window.

      It doesn’t matter that he said he meant no harm….watch the video. This is the same shit Rodney King went through where 4 cops beat him unmercifully then had the balls to claim he was resisting arrest…

      That’s the new cop mantra, where have ya been ?????

      • Daniel M says:

        1. I act differently when I am with my friends, my wife, my parents and my boss. I think most people would agree there is a time and place for everything.

        2. The point of my post was not about racism it is about learning. Regardless of who was at fault, was there a better way that both people could have handled the situation?

        3. Obviously what you call proof others do not. Different people regardless of race have mixed opinions. There were African American Witnesses who would not agree with you.

        4. If you read medical journals the choke was not applied long enough for a person of average health to cause death. If you read my post a blood choke is not an outlawed maneuver by NYPD an Air choke is. Please speak with MMA, Martial artists and bounces and I am sure they will tell you that a choke avoided a brutal beating.

        5. Oh yes, human nature depicts we are all honest. What if he could breathe and used that so the cop lets up and shoots him?

        6. I am not talking about other cases, I am taking about Garner. Each case has its own circumstances and issues. You cause racism when you put every issue in the same category.

        Dividing people does not unite people. What do you accomplish by making this about race? Does calling every other nonblack American racist really help the cause and unity.

        YOU ARE HOLDING 32K POLICE OFFICERS ACCOUTABLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF A FEW. YES THAT SCREAMS PROGRESS.

        Do I think any untimely death is wrong? Yes
        Do I think crime is wrong? YES
        Do I think everyone in this situation was blameless? NO
        Could we all learn something from this? YES
        Will most people learn from this? NO

        And for half of my life, all of my friends were of different races. Were there times where I felt left out? Yes, Did I feel out of place? Yes. Did it bother me? YES. Would I trade it in? NO

        People prefer to be prideful instead of humble and that is why stuff like this happens.
        People prefer to be prideful instead of humble and that is why stuff like this happens.

        • Eric says:

          Daniel, though I think your conclusions are wrong, I actually appreciate your well thought-out comments.

          1) First, reading through your comments, with due respect, I think you do not understand the basic concept of “white privilege.” Not sure what your comedic or tv-viewing tastes are, but Jon Stewart on the Daily Show recently had a great on-air debate with Bill O’Reilly which I thought did this concept justice. I raise this specter because it explains your lack of understanding (and there is a lack of understanding) around the “good behavior” topic you raised. People fail to understand that whites, as a general matter, do not experience the same day-to-day burdens that blacks experience, especially when it comes to interactions with police (racerrodig was eloquent on this point above).

          Case-in-point, there is a young man who has been visible on some cable networks in recent weeks (his name escapes me) who has been rousted as a part of NYC’s “stop and frisk” program dozens and dozens of times. He’s never been arrested nor charged with anything (because he’s NOT a criminal). Setting aside the fact that this abusive beahavior is unconstitutional, who on earth would be ‘polite’ after being harassed so frequently? Moreover, you know the reason you’re harassed–because of race. Also, you see it happen to friends, which adds to your anger, an emotion any human would feel. I understand that you did not come here to be lectured about race. But, the problem is that you are trying to ignore race. It’s there and always will be there, so you need to deal with it.

          2) I do not like the victim-blaming tone of your thinking. You need to understand that those who have the power should bear the responsibility.

          3) I question your so-called “facts.” I’ve often come across those who have a presumption that progressives operate on “emotion” and conservatives operate more on “facts.” I cannot help but feel this tone emanating from your comments. It’s the furthest thing from the truth. The FACT is that Garner did not have a heart attack at that very moment he was chatting with police. It is a medical fact that his heart attack was brought on by the asphyxiation. The asphyxiation was caused by the NYPD. These are the cold hard facts. These FACTS, unless proved to be justifiable, would warrant a conviction for either negligence, some form of manslaughter, and/or illegally “obstructing one’s air passage” (I believe this is an obscure, very New York-specific statute). I felt it should have been for the court to render legal judgement.

          4) Regarding the hair-splitting on the “chokehold,” I have no doubt that this is the kind of argument we’ll see in future litigation of this case, if there is any (the civil case will likely be settled out of court). But, whatever term you want to use for the maneuver (we can call it a “foot massage” if you want), it was in fact the “foot massage” move that caused the asphyxiation. The asphyxiation caused the death. Therefore, the NYPD was responsible for causing the death. These are facts; not emotion, facts.

          • Daniel M says:

            I appreciate your detailed reply but I think we have to agree to disagree.

            1. You say WHITE privilege, I say THE privileged. You may be partially correct because their are more Whites in positions of power then blacks. What you fail to realize is that favoritism is the worst discrimination there is because it is not considered discrimination.

            A lot of minorities think, oh your white you have it easy. Until you know ME “the person” how do you know I have it easy. I can’t say that blacks have treated me any better or any worse and attempt to be my friends anymore than anyone else.

            Are you saying that if I go to a black neighborhood by myself and mingle, I will be greeted with open arms? All I am saying is before we fix others maybe we should work on ourselves too.

            2. Again me being white has gotten me know where unless I am so entitled I don’t even know it. I will gladly show you my posts where I sided with an African American victim 100%. My post was strictly looking at the flaws of his actions as well. Garner was no saint. Did he deserve to die. Of course not.

            3. Here is the fact: ““According to medical examiner spokeswoman Julie Bolcer, Garner was killed by “…the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police… Asthma, heart disease and obesity were contributing factors…”

            The medical examiner, while ruling the death a homicide, said there was no damage to neck or windpipe and so therefore it isn’t a chokehold.”

            And your way of thinking is why no good Samaritans exist anymore. Because unless you have Qualified Immunity, you are getting sued even if you acted in good faith. What if instead of selling cigarettes, he was fighting another human being and I intervened which a choke hold I was trained on to use properly. A choke hold which is scientifically proven to be safer then a knockout, I would be facing criminal and civil penalties.

            4. I am not arguing with you there. If a choke was not applied he would be alive. If he was tazered would he have died? Pepper Sprayed? Bull rushed to the ground? If I had my pick, I would have picked the choke hold.

            All I can say is I reviewed the facts and spoke with both NYPD and Black peers. My conclusion is I see fault in how both people handled the situation. Instead of doing a percentage split of blame, I decided to see how both were at fault and how both people could have handled the situation.

            Now you say I am naive. How many of you have been on a police ride along with narcotics or the warrant divisions etc. You will see that police are average humans and we all fear for our lives equally. Or better yet apply to be NYPD and I am sure your views will change.

        • Malisha says:

          YOU ARE HOLDING 32K POLICE OFFICERS ACCOUTABLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF A FEW.

          No we’re not. We’re saying that the FEW who have murdered people deserve to be prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned, along with the FEW non-police murderers. We’re not blaming all police. We’re saying NO ONE POLICE OFFICER should be shielded by the other police if he happens to commit MURDER.

    • 1. I keep hearing people use the words “illegal chokehold”. The chokehold is against NYPD policy but not against the law. NYPD defines a chokehold as an air choke and not a blood choke as the handbook states “any pressure to the throat or windpipe”. The autopsy showed no damage to the windpipe. The blood chokehold is taught in most martial arts schools as well as MMA. Bouncers implore this move daily as a non-lethal alternative to subdue hostile patrons. Although chokeholds are not full proof, experts agree, it is safer than a knock out. I would assume as safe as a Taser, baton or pepper spray. If applied wrong the windpipe is still pretty flexible and it takes minutes for a blood choke to start causing brain death. The problem is all bets are off when someone has underlying medical conditions.

      Nope, it was a choke hold that the NYPD outlawed in 1993 and there was no basis for an arrest because selling loosies is just a minor offense handled by issuing a citation. Under those circumstances the use of force was unnecessary and unreasonable.

      • Daniel M says:

        Please cite your source. According to the NYPD handbook ” officially prohibit the application of force that places any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.”

        A blood choke places pressure on the carotid artery and no pressure on the windpipe.

        “According to medical examiner spokeswoman Julie Bolcer, Garner was killed by “…the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police… Asthma, heart disease and obesity were contributing factors…”

        The medical examiner, while ruling the death a homicide, said there was no damage to neck or windpipe and so therefore it isn’t a chokehold.”

        • Daniel M says:

          Were you a NY criminal defense attorney?

          New York Criminal Procedure Law sec. 140.10(1)(a) states in pertinent part “a police officer may arrest a person for: (a) Any offense when he has reasonable cause to believe that such person has committed such offense in his presence.”

          The supreme court in Atwater v. Lago Vista also state that police can arrest and handcuff people even for minor offenses punishable only by a fine.

          There is sometimes a fine line between felony, misdemeanor and violation. Police are also allowed to handcuff in the interest of safety. 30 arrests!! conspiracy or not, any reasonable person would proceed with caution.

          Of course NYC public policy is in support of a DAT instead of an arrest and he would have been released if he kept his cool.

          You are proving my point. Respect is given respect is received. I am sure being a law professor, you have discretion on the amount of work, papers, tests and grades you can give. I am sure if someone rubbed you the wrong way that A paper became a B paper.

          I just want to reiterate again, I am not saying this isn’t a travesty. It is sad that we all can’t just die of old age.

    • 2. Most people are opposed to racism and segregation but only strengthen the divide with their hypocritical views. When blaming a group (an entire police force) for a select few actions, that is when we cause a divide. I for one think that the people involved should be accountable not others just because of their color (blue uniform). I am sure most cops just want to collect their paycheck and end the day like all of us.

      You must be living in a different world than I am because I see racism everywhere. Have you not noticed the militarization of police departments and the use of SWAT teams battering down doors and tossing flash grenades while executing search warrants for small amounts of drugs?

      Have you not noticed all of the killings recently of unarmed people?

      I do not believe you know what you are talking about.

      • Daniel M says:

        I guess we would have to agree to disagree and I must have had the most diverse friends growing up.

        I also see gender discrimination, weight discrimination, height discrimination, reverse discrimination & age discrimination. You think I am entitled? lol that is funny. You don’t think I was called names and harassed when I was in an area of color with my friend who was black. I used to work in a place where there was only two whites. I was the minority I could have handled it many different ways, some getting me a nasty beatdown but I chose the high road.

        I have to work twice as hard to get to where I am and I still fall short of my goals. I just hate when people think oh I am white it is so easy. It is not.

        Do you really think Whites who aren’t in the elite, like to hear how entitled we are. Maybe if we all found some common ground to relate to, we can all be friends.

        My original post was about fixing the problem instead of pointing it out. Do you think Mr. Garner handled this the way you would have? If this were a white person, my post would not have changed one bit.

        The point of my post is to learn. If you read other blog posts by me you will see, that if someone made a stupid decision regardless of color you still made a stupid decision.

    • 3.
      When forming your opinion you should research the facts yourself and not look at online rants.
      It was funny when the press was interviewing some protestors, how ignorant they were when the facts were present. Some people just like to stir the pot and have no clue what they are fighting for. This gets the wrong people in your corner and cheapens the argument and the cause.

      I watched the video many times. It speaks for itself. Pantaleo committed a second degree murder.

      • Daniel M says:

        Well obviously the grand jury and many others don’t see it that way. Once you resist arrest, force is authorized. If you read up on MMA & martial arts, you will see that a choke hold is less lethal than a knockout or a strong blow to a major organ.

        The funny thing is I don’t even like the police very much and I have had my run ins. If Garner had not have passed this would have blown over. A choke hold is known to be less lethal. If you don’t believe me, have someone punch you in the jaw vs choke you out. I am sure that will answer your question.

    • I am in no way pro police but it is hard to believe the vast differences of opinions even when video is present. If most African Americans are in fear of police, why do they not act on their best behavior when approached by one? When I am in another Country or even in another state, I am on my best behavior to everyone because I do not know their laws, customs and views. I actually think everyone should act like that in all circumstances but that is farfetched. Yes sir, no sir, I am sorry sir. Even people with anger issues need a reason in most cases.

      Come on, son.

      This is their country and they have a right to act any way they please, so long as they do not violate any laws and if they do, they have a right to be treated just like anyone else. If you choose to be obsequious among strangers, that is OK because you have a right to act that way. Please do not impose your views and expectations on others. Lots of people, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference, national origin or religious preference prefer a more expressive and adventurous life.

      • Daniel M says:

        But the fact of the matter is he did violate the law!!!!

        And yes it is a free country, I can drive my car lambo in the poorest neighborhood, I can flash my cash in a 3rd world country, I can say bikers suck in a biker bar.

        Do you deserve to die? No Will you? I wouldn’t risk it.

        Fred, if you want to live for thills, I am happy for you. Adventurous tasks such as sky diving, swimming with the sharks and mouthing off and provoking law enforcement come with a risk. I hope that risk is worth the reward.

    • With civil rights becoming such a big issue and most lawyers now working on contingency, why don’t all citizens in general voice their opinion in court rather than on the street? A contingency lawsuit is a zero dollar investment while defending in a criminal suit is hundreds of thousands. I think more people need to be humbling and think before they act. Tough guys might feel good in the moment but either end up broke or dead in the long run and that is the truth for humans in general.

      Courts are too corrupt, it takes too long, and the client is responsible for the costs of litigation. Most people cannot afford them so the legal remedy is a waste of time and money.

      • Daniel M says:

        I don’t know when the last time you practiced law or googled a lawyer but I seen and spoken to many Attorneys willing to work on contingency. If you look at current civil case law, you will see the state usually settles or winds up losing. This makes the risk to the attorney far less although they do take a large chunk of your settlement.

        Well once again logic prevails. If the police are corrupt and the courts are corrupt, I will choose the one where I live and have a chance to win rather then either be killed or have to spend hundreds of thousands on criminal litigation where contingency is not an option.

        • I was a felony criminal defense attorney for 30 years specializing in death penalty defense and forensics. I also did a little plaintiff’s PI work during the first 10 years or so. Then I retired from active practice and taught criminal law, criminal procedure, trial advocacy and torts in law school over a three year period.

          I know what I am talking about and you do not.

          • Daniel M says:

            Well obviously you are a bit rusty. I cited you the CPL and the NYPD handbook where you were clearly incorrect on the definitions.

            I knew from your first post you had a biased view. When you said “any thoughts?” it should have been any thoughts that align to my ideals.

            If you want to talk degrees, I have a MS in sociology, and have conducted several studies about sensitive issues. My thesis was actually on interracial couples in society. I also have a minor in criminology. Although, I am a firm believer that degrees are only a piece of paper, I have a passion for law and human behavior, so I believe I am more than qualified to assert my opinion.

          • No, you misread what I said. I said he had no reason (i.e., need) to arrest Garner and he didn’t. Plus, handbooks aren’t statutes or case law. You are presumptuous to call me rusty. Your MS degree does not qualify you to be a lawyer and neither do your studies.

          • Daniel M says:

            Well obviously other lawyers, prosecutors and NYPD officials think otherwise. Should those people resign?

            So if my minor in criminology and MS in sociology do not give me the right to comment on law. Does your law degree allow you to comment on human behavior, racism or logic? Saying you are correct because you have a law degree is ignornant.

            And you misread my post. I stated “There is sometimes a fine line between felony, misdemeanor and violation.” In certain cases repeating an offense raises the severity. So you do not know or question their reason on the scene. You comply until the officers feel safe and then you either plead your case or remain silent.

            Reason:

            1. Police are allowed to handcuff in the interest of safety. This gives police broad discretion and after 30 arrests, I would have done the same if that is all I had to go on. If the officers felt safe, this would not have happened.

            2. He was also on PAROLE!! Committing a crime while on parole is even further ammunition to either handcuff or arrest. Most prosecutors, police and judges are not sympathetic to repeat offenders.

            3, The CPL I copied for you say they can. There is a difference how police treat first time offenders and multiple offenders. That’s the definition of discretion.

          • Nothing you say makes any sense to me. You feign concern while advancing discredited nonsensical right wing talking points. But most of all, cops can do no wrong and Garner deserved what he got.

            He was a human being and those criminal cops murdered him on video.

            Bye.

    • If you believe that cops are targeting you, wouldn’t the 30 other arrests be a clue to stop doing illegal activities? It is sad but in most cases IRS tax evasion is worse than murder. I would assume the states are not much better when it comes to money. I can understand a first time arrestee not knowing the deal but at 30 arrests, you should know what to expect.

      Haven’t you heard of freedom of speech and assembly? The vast majority of protesters are peaceful and have a constitutional right to protest. What makes you think that the 30 arrests are legitimate arrests? Many of them aren’t and you would know that if you attended a protest. Also, part of protesting involves submitting to arrest.

      • Daniel M says:

        So you claim the police are biased but protesters are always 100% honest. They don’t slant the facts either. No never. Oh Please

        Just at the time of his death, Garner was out on bail after being charged with illegally selling cigarettes, driving without a license, marijuana possession and false impersonation. Maybe if Garner was an powerful activist or revealed a government secret, I would believe all 30 arrests are a government conspiracy.

        • a2nite says:

          @ Daniel M

          The protestors don’t kill people; the police do. All 6 police are responsible for killing Garner. The EMT didn’t hell either. He was dying on the street & they dinges save him.

          #FTP

    • The video I saw the police gave Mr. Garner a couple of warnings. I am curious as to how many warning people believe is fair before action is taken?

      As I said previously, the police did not have a good reason to arrest him. They were out of line and they killed him. Pantaleo exhibited extreme indifference to human life and he should lose his job and go to prison for that. He is a dangerous man and a threat to society, so he needs to be locked up. Anything less is an injustice.

      I do not mean to be harsh or disrespectful, but I think you have a lot of bad ideas that you need to rethink. You appear to be naive and seriously out of touch with the real world.

  6. I wondered why so many NYC cops were available in the area to take down this “dangerous criminal.”

  7. Malisha says:

    Four cops on the guy to “bring him down” in broad daylight on a public street. The NY Times editorial uses the word “grotesque” and that’s not word enough for this kind of mob violence. In fact, there IS no word that is word enough for this kind of mob violence. We are a failed state.

  8. Malisha says:

    Right now I fervently wish the whole country would erupt into a giant conflagration, even if I were to die in it myself. I’m too enraged by the lying and the cowardice to be able to tolerate this shit any longer. I hope someday I gain the freedom of mind to do something appropriate about this kind of crap.

    • so jaded says:

      I am praying I can my kids out of this country in time. The gov has declared a war on black people. Cameras only work for non police. I always said cameras will not do a dam thing. This cop will get a no bill. Just a black kid. Who cares. Remember that high school kid that was gun down in his mobil home when a cop came to serve a warrent. She mistook the wii ck ntrol he was holding for a gun. I beleive this cop was fired from her previous cop job at another dept. All she had to say is he had a gun. Several witnesses said no gun just wii control.

    • so jaded says:

      What can anyone do? Seriously? Middle america love stheir police force. It’s the blacks that are no good. Please pray for my sons (13&15). IF I had known that things would get this bad I would not of had kids. My youngest says “I wish racism did not exist”. I can’t protect my children. I may as well b living during slavery, or nazi occulation! The hatred is intense. I see it in the eyes of white people when i am out with my sons. I take them everywhere. L9k at what happend to Trayvon…They only walk home from school. NONE OF US R FREE IF ONE OF US IS CHAINED, NONE OF US R FREE–Ray Charles.

  9. Eric says:

    The police union is proffering the argument that what we saw on video was not a choke hold:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pba-chief-slams-political-medical-examiner-al-sharpton-article-1.1892626

    • MDX says:

      The sense of self-entitlement and importance on the part of these police unions is mind boggling. And there are those who defend these “union” men. Historically, police have been the lead head busters in the on-going war of capital against labor.

    • racerrodig says:

      Maybe by cop definition it’s not a choke hold…….it’s a stranglehold…..hey, to them, that’s a big difference.

  10. Eric says:

    I think a couple of things gave us this result:

    1) For those of us who are unfamiliar, Staten Island is the least ethnically diverse and most politically conservative of the five NYC boroughs. Also, many first responders (and other municipal employees) live in Staten Island since it is one of the least expensive parts of town. It’s very possible that there were police among the 23 grand jurors.

    2) Unlike in the exceptional St Louis case, we will not see the grand jury transcripts for this case. But, if, by some force of luck, we did see the transcript, I’m confident we would see the same corrupt games that were played by the Staten Island DA’s office that we saw played by the St Louis County DA’s office.

  11. annahkonda says:

    The world is coming apart at the seams. When will it end?

    • a2nite says:

      I’m waiting for global warming. It’s too bad innocent animals will die also. The earth will be better without us.

  12. YQ says:

    This is all crazy!

  13. Two sides to a story says:

    Two of the cops who killed Kelly Thomas were indicted at least, and went through a lengthy trial process, but only after a year of protests. The OC prosecutor did a lame presentation and the jury of 12 found them not guilty.

    • racerrodig says:

      I can’t believe video proof doesn’t even constitute proof anymore. The old expression “….my world for a camera” just doesn’t work anymore.

      • Malisha says:

        Yeah so the taxpayers are supposed to now spend millions of billions to buy body cameras for murderers so we can have grand jury “proceedings” view the tapes and say the cops meant no harm when they killed African Americans, mentally ill “disposable” whites, and whomever they target. What are we, stupid? We don’t need cameras. We need effective things, not photoflicks.

        • racerrodig says:

          That’s what kills me. Now a rock solid video of a murder is deemed what……and why. Because he said I meant no harm ??

          When a drunk runs a red light or a stop sign and kills or maims a family out for dinner or going to the movies, does the drunk get to say at trial “I meant no harm” and the jury goes “Ohhh pshaw, no big deal, He didn’t mean to kill dad and the baby. It’s okay, just don’t do it again”

          No, he’s probably spending some in the big house and gets the shit sued out of him and rightfully so. If he’s got a record of DWI, it’s more time. A good friend of ours wife is in prison for pulling into traffic and causing a bad accident where someone was killed and to look at her, you’d never suspect she was a drinker at all.

          They have 3 kids and the Judge really didn’t want to hear about how sorry she was at her sentencing. She didn’t mean any harm, but someone lost a wife and mom.

          This cop has a choke hold which was made unlawful some time ago. God forbid if you take a poke at a cop for screwing with someone for no reason to save their life !!!!

        • racerrodig says:

          I can see it now……some cop shoots somebody and when the body cam video is playing and we’re watching the suspect run away…..the cop will blurt out……”…….this is the moment where I began to be in reasonable rear for my life. See my hand is shaking and it’s not because of my gun, er ‘the gun” I was in reasonable fear of great bodily harm and eminent death.”

  14. PhillyBoyRoy says:

    Yeah I’m done.

    I would laugh and celebrate and dance a goddamn jig if that cowardly murdering thug cop died violently, and I don’t like feeling this way.

    I’m done.

    • racerrodig says:

      I’m not done…..that’s what they want.

      Shit…..I’m just getting started.

      I’ll dance with you when we hear he fucked with somebody say, maybe a road rage incident since he seems to be of that ilk, and get toasted…….with no witnesses……89 miles from nowhere……and his cellphone battery is dead……and his car battery is broken wide open and dead as well……and he’s got a compound fracture of his leg…..either one will do…….and he’s alone……and the coyotes are howling…….and hungry.

      Something like that sound good ??

  15. racerrodig says:

    It’s not all white people. In fact, look at videos and images from every protest or rally about anybody killing unarmed black people, whether it be Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown or Renisha McBride. There are a lot of white people, myself included, who stand up to be counted against these crimes.

    Ahhhhhh……..it’s comments like that that give those racists something to sink their teeth into. What if one of us white people were to start spouting off crime stats in a way to make black people look bad ?? Comments like that set back what all of us do to make race relations understood and stomp on racism.

    Thanks…………

    • a2nite says:

      You didn’t disprove what I said. There may be some white people who are ok. That doesn’t matter when evil white people are excused to murder x& exterminate us. How many evil men watched Eric Garner be killed? Evil people decided it was ok. The men who watched & helped are all evil white men.

      White people need to look in the mirror & say how many black people need to be exterminated before they give a crap & help us. I’m not holding my breath because the majority think it is ok.

      • a2nite says:

        Don’t the evil police know how to write a ticket? Instead, they murdered him on tape & no indictment. I’m tired & I hate humans.

        #FTP

      • racerrodig says:

        You said “….white people make America a crappy place for black people.”

        I said “It’s not all white people.” It has nothing to do with disproving what you said.

        You need to go back and read what I’ve said here and elsewhere and think about what I said at 7:49 above.

        I’m not the one who needs to look in the mirror as you stated above. You need to be a little less generally offensive and be a litttttle more specific. Maybe “…some white people…..”

    • Vee says:

      whomever the violent racist people are they for sure will not go no where near a real tough person, so the preference is black youth, black women, and individuals with mental health issues.

      …and they are who we thought they were.

  16. a2nite says:

    I can’t say this on dailykos: white people make America a crappy place for black people.

  17. Disappointed says:

    I am disgusted also. I don’t get it. Why no indictment? Choke hold banned. Why do people hold police on pedestal? They are human. They make mistakes, they lie, they cover for each other. Why are panels not determining whether charges should be filed instead of having a prosecutor who works with these officer put on a “show.”

    • bettykath says:

      It wasn’t just the video, which should have been enough, there was also the ME report which said homicide due to asphyxiation, specifically mentioning the choke hold and the chest compression. It was the choke hold officer who was lying on top of Garner providing the chest compression.

  18. racerrodig says:

    Beyond disgusted. Then this cop says he meant no harm…….right.

    …………….and Hitler was just “misunderstood”

    In fact, these cops are nothing but badged SS stormtroopers. What happened to “…..to Protect and to Serve” ?? !! ?? Shit….it even says it on the cop cars…..guess they have comprehension issues.

    Maybe they took this course……what other explanation can there be ?

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