Saturday Evening Open Thread

Saturday, July 12, 2014

Good evening:

I am very upset about the continuing slaughter of Palestinian women and children in Gaza. More than 150 people are dead and now Israel is warning people who live in the north Gaza Strip to leave because they apparently intend to reduce it to rubble.

There isn’t anywhere for them to go.

This is not self-defense.

This is genocide and it has to stop.

Israel’s response far exceeds the amount of force that is reasonably necessary to defend itself.

I realize Hamas continues to fire missiles blindly into Israel, but with only one exception, they have not caused any injuries.

Enough!

Obviously no one in the ME gives a damn about what I think. Nevertheless, I feel compelled to add my voice to the growing scream of protest.

The pool is open. Let us know what you think.

22 Responses to Saturday Evening Open Thread

  1. JJ says:

    I disagree. My cousin lives in Tel Aviv and I started paying attention when she mentioned going to a safe place after hearing the air sirens. Also remember the three Jewish teens who were murdered.

    Hamas is a terrorist organization in Palestine. The reason there are no/few fatalities in Israel is because the citizens have safe places. The people in Gaza do not. So why would Hamas pick a fight with Israel when Israeli’s have a strong military and safe places for their citizens – while Gaza citizens are defenseless.

    Perhaps Hamas picked a fight knowing what would happen so the Gaza citizens & others would support Hamas. Our government will not negotiate with Hamas because they are terrorists. The Palestinian government doesn’t do anything to stop Hamas either. Israel warns before they strike.

    Is Israel supposed to stop blowing the air sirens so Israeli’s will be killed as well? Are Israeli’s supposed to stay out of their safe places? This isn’t a game. If Israel is attacked, they will attack back and the destruction and lives lost will be greater for Palestine.

    Cousin just wrote: “It’s supposed to be a cease fire and 7 rockets were just fired on Ashdod where I live.”

    Here is a video for a quick background:

  2. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Each side simply wants to survive.

    Until God cleanses all the hearts on both sides of hatred, retaliation, and revenge and then only fills those hearts with love, there will be no change. Until God miraculously touches His children to realize that they are one family, they will not try to help the survival of the other or care about the welfare of the other.

    Desiring God to change hearts must be the fervent prayer request of ALL the people on both sides.

  3. bettykath says:

    It’s about land and water. The Israeli government wants it all. Any excuse to reduce the Palistinians’ homes to rubble and force them out. There are Zionists in all parts of our government doing the bidding of AIPAC. Many of them have dual citizenship. Mossad knew about the attack on the twin towers before it happened and they had people on the ground filming the attack when the first plane hit.

    One of Jimmy Carter’s books talks about the peace talks he held. Sadat was cooperative and amenable to negotiation. Begin was not.

  4. Israel has been getting away with “segregation” for the occupation. They have toyed around in the margins of genocide since that time as well. Ironic and hypocritical isn’t it. Israel exists because of the Holocaust, yet the don’t care about the Palestinians any more than the Nazis care about the Jews. When they say “Never Again” they mean “Never again to them” but not necessarily to someone other people.

    • Malisha says:

      This is a popular and simplistic, but probably deeply satisfying (I don’t know about that) way to look at what has happened and what is happening. If Jewish Israelis are to be more respectful of their enemies’ rights than any other nation on earth ever has been or has been expected to be, I would like to know why?

      This was not an unprovoked attack. It is out of all proportion to the provocation. But remember, there was a peace initiative and Hamas wanted to derail that peace initiative. What easier way is there to do that than to murder some Israeli Jewish kids?

      So predictable, so insane. But saying there is no difference between that and what the Germans did in WWII is the same sort of faulty logic that had the trayvon Martin murder being negated by the conduct of TYrone Woodfork.

      Things are not just the same because they are both horrible. A rotten egg is disgusting and a pool of dog barf is disgusting but a rotten egg is not a pool of dog vomit. Sorry for the silly analogy. Israel is way out of line and is committing crimes against humanity but it is not committing genocide. Within Israel there is not equality. (Nor is there equality within the US, within Saudi Arabia, within Egypt, within Italy, within Ukraine.) But what is happening now is (a) not equivalent to the Nazi Holocaust and (b) not genocide.

      • Okay, well I don’t agree with you, but that’s okay.. Hitler was motivated to kill Jews by an intense hatred, desire for revenge and retaliation. Targeted killing of a population with no or little concern of whether members of it are “guilty” is wanton killing. You can call it ethnic cleansing or genocide, it really doesn’t matter. To me, it is a meaningless distinction

        • Malisha says:

          Hitler’s psychological motivation is not equal to Israel’s getting a desire for revenge because shells are being lobbed at them all day for years and then a teen-ager gets killed. It’s a false equivilancy to say “Since Hitler wanted revenge on the Jews” [for imagined wrongs, by the way] and since the Israeli hawk govt. wants revenge on Hamas, then this action is equivalent to the Nazi Holocaust Does not equal.

  5. Malisha says:

    Professor, I agree that the Israeli response is wrong and I agree that it has to stop but I don’t agree that it is genocide. That’s too easy a false analogy to reach because of course there are Jewish Israelis killing Arabs. But we can also see that the roots of this rampage (and I consider the Israeli actions now to be tantamount to one of the spree shootings that takes place perpetrated by a hostile, hateful, mentally ill person with access to guns, like the movie theater shooting spree in Colorado or its kind) were not a desire to kill off Arab or Palestinian people, but RAGE. And I can sympathize with the now quite misguided Israelis who have reached this point of rage because frankkly, the world’s alleged peacemakers over the last six decades did have opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to ameliorate things in the region, and they exacerbated them instead. You take a people who started out quite wounded, quite shell-shocked, and in a sense trapped, and then everybody else in the world got “criticism rights” whereas nobody else in the world had “assistance responsibilities” — what does that sound like? To me it sounds like abuse, even if it was somewhat sophisticated abuse with lots of high-minded phrases.

    Probably nobody over the age of 18 anywhere in the region can thin clearly. Only those children who are saying, “We deserve to be protected” have any idea of the difference between right and wrong. I have given up, frankly, not only on Israel but on my own country and I don’t believe that my words or my work or my vote count for anything.

    • I understand what you are saying and respect your point of view, but when does a rage response become genocide?

      I suppose the answer depends on how long it lasts and how many are killed.

      This is just too much for me and I want them to stop. Not escalate.

      Yet that is where Netanyahu appears to be going.

      • I saw a photo on twitter of a bunch of dead kids and I couldn’t handle it.

        I don’t mean to piss anyone off.

        I realize there is a long history of hating and killing on both sides, but retaliation to get even only begets more retaliation to get even and that will be true 100 years from now or 1,000 years from now, if the human race survives that long.

        I just want them to agree that slaughtering more children is not the answer.

      • Malisha says:

        “When does a rage response become genocide?”

        It doesn’t. It doesn’t change its character based on a number or a time period. I do not believe what we are seeing is genocide because words have to MEAN what they really MEAN. WOrds like “genocide” and “holocaust” can be bandied about to no good end. Genocide is a program of murder, the point of which is to destroy an ethnic, national, religious or “racial” group. A wrongful and extreme warlike attack on people that is motivated by revenge and by a need to show blistering, irresistible force and uncontrollable power is not genocide. GENOCIDE is genocide.

        • OK, point accepted.

          Interesting how disagreements or potential disagreements can be defused or avoided by defining terms used in discussion.

        • Dave says:

          Rather than “genocide”, I think Israel’s policy toward the Palestinians is better described as “ethnic cleansing”. While thousands of Palestinians have been killed, the Zionists’ goal seems not to destroy the Palestinian people but to drive them from their homeland by making their lives unbearable. It’s all about land.

        • Well what is happening in Gaza, is indeed genocide. They are targeting and attacking people,who they have no way of knowing whether they are guilty of anything,besides being Palestinians and more importantly not Jews. Hilter, and thus the Nazis’ reason for killing Jews was “A wrongful and extreme warlike attack on people that is motivated by revenge and by a need to show blistering, irresistible force and uncontrollable power.” So, its not genocide? Its just the wholesale retaliatory murder of a people who happen to belong to an ethic, national, religious and racial group. Hmmm, well if it walks like a duck…

          • Malisha says:

            Faulty argument. If it were genocide there would be just as much killing of Israeli Arabs or, at least, Israelis who were “ethnic” Palestinians. What you’re seeing is an outrageously exaggerated military action targeting a geographical location heavily populated by civilians and almost exclusively populated by Palestinian civilians (and combattants among them). “Genocide” is motivated by racial or ethnic hatred. The Israeli actions are motivated by revenge (blown all out of proportion but still revenge) and the good old patriarchal chest-thumping show of power.

            Samuel 15:3 in the Bible is the original definition of genocide. It was allegedly ordered by god himself:

            “Now go and destroy the entire Amelekite nation: men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels and donkeys.”

    • aussie says:

      Rage. Yes. The sane rage that leads an abusive man to bash
      his wife to death when she tries once again to stand up to him. How dare she not appreciate his years of abuse? how dare she hit back?

      • aussie says:

        same not sane, there is nothing sane about this.

      • Malisha says:

        Also a false analogy. This is not an abusive husband and a wife who’s been bullied and beaten for all the years of their marriage. This is a dysfunctional family in which ALL THE ADULTS have been smashing each other to pieces for 60 years and now some others are trying to make them stop (perhaps) but there are by now unruly and sociopathic teen-agers devoted to further destabilizing the family so it can never heal.

  6. fauxmccoy says:

    one of the things that bugs me the most as an USian (along with our own heavy investment in military strength and use) is our foreign policy of continuously turning a blind eye towards israeli actions. it is not anti-semitic to speak out against israeli policies, especially when they are slaughtering other semites (the palestinians).

    i know this is tied up heavily in zionism, evangelism etc., etc., but dammit, this has got to stop. israeli expansion has got to stop.

    uggggg, the whole thing makes me fucking sick.

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