Verdict Watch Michael Dunn Trial

After both sides presented closing arguments yesterday in the Michael Dunn trial, Judge Healey read instructions to the jury out loud, and the jury began deliberating. They had not reached a decision as of about 7 PM last night. They plan to begin deliberations this morning at 10 AM.

Here is the link to First Coast News and their Live Video coverage of the trial.

From yesterday, here are the closing arguments, as well as the rebuttal from the state:

Michael Dunn Trial. Day 6. Part 2. Prosecution Closing Arguments

Michael Dunn Trial. Day 6. Part 3. Defense Closing Arguments

Michael Dunn Trial. Day 6. Part 4. States Rebuttal

posted by Crane-Station

586 Responses to Verdict Watch Michael Dunn Trial

  1. Boyd says:

    whatever they get him for, he’s in jail for a long long time and we’ll never see him again. He’ll get the max. Good riddance. I’d love to send him postcards from Italy “greetings! I’m having fun sucker”

  2. Malisha says:

    I think the big difference between a jury of six and a jury of 12 may be that a “dissenting voice” in a jury of 12 will usually find someone else, at least one other person, to LISTEN, whether they come around to changing their mind or not. A jury of 12 therefore will naturally take more time. That’s not a bad thing; that’s a good thing.

  3. Lynn says:

    My opinion on the last jury question about the letter.
    I have 3-4 links to the letters in my bookmarks. Crane gave another one upthread that was way more thorough than any I have. Comparing and pondering I have a theory.
    J4 seems to think it won’t get sent to the jury as it isn’t evidence. However, it is listed as evidence 201. It is evidence that they have, but are just questioning the date. I believe confusion would be in order after I compared all my links to the letters.
    I have links showing 6-22 letter as 2 pgs. I have links with a 6-23 letter of 2 pgs. I also have links with them lumped together as 2 pgs from 6-22 then 4 pgs of 6-23. Numbering is off though. Most pgs are numbered but a few aren’t.
    Now that you are totally confused…sorry. Here is a link and my theory.
    Click on the pdf and scroll the bottom bar to pgs 44-49.

    2 envelopes…2 letters…dates of 6-22 and 6-23.

    I believe they are out of order. 6-23 letter is 2 pgs and is numbered w/pg1 and 2. (Here they are pgs 46-47.)
    6-22 letter is 4 pages and has 1 and 2 numbered but no number on 3 and 4. (Here they are pgs 44-45 and 48-49.) They are heavily redacted and are out of order. It starts with page 1, then has a fully redacted page with no number, then a fully redacted page numbered 2, and finally an ending page not numbered.
    Because they are redacted we can’t tell for sure, but I believe they have switched pages 2 and 3 while also inserting the 6-23 letter in with it. Does this make sense?
    44) 6/22 page 1
    45) 6/22 page 3
    46) 6/23 page 1
    47) 6/23 page 2
    48) 6/22 page 2
    49) 6/22 page 4

    The letter is Dunn’s recollection of the events of Black Friday, the day of the shooting. He had it typed up by someone to send to his family. His 6-26 letter (pgs 37-40) to his darling daughter references it…”If you haven’t already, ask REDACTED to e-mail you my recounting of what happened that night!”

    The jury is comparing his inconsistencies in the letter with testimony given in court.
    They are also comparing his story of Jordan standing or diving with the ME’s testimony.
    Nothing so far makes me worried they will find him not guilty.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      lynn — i am thinking that letter got entered into evidence as well, because of the exhibit number (201) and guy’s closing statement where he referenced 211 exhibits. the letter may have been undated or date redacted which would cause the jury to question the date it was written.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Morning! I’m so confused. Going through these now Lynn. Thanks.

        Also thanks for the van comment.

        I’ve been snowed in over thinking everything.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i can often get that way myself — it’s why we all work best as a group, really, and i wouldn’t want it any other way.

          stay warm! my uncle in college park has been out of power for 4 days now i think. i hope you are better off.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        I still think it is not evidence and they can only refer to notes they took during that questioning by Guy on cross.

        • blushedbrown says:


          It was entered into evidence. Watch video from 1:37 about the letter.
          Mr. Guy explains why after Strolla tries to object to the letter.

    • blushedbrown says:


      Great post Lynn.

      The letter was dictated to his brother, Matt. It was to be an accounting of his recollection of the event. Dunn says he wrote it for therapy for himself and to clarify because of the lies the media and the state attorney’s office were saying about him and the case.

      @ 1:37 Mr. Guy asks about Jordan being in the car when he shot him. He then draws his attention to the letter. Marked into evidence as 8S and 201.

    • Boyd says:

      if they’re looking at the story they better be comparing it to Smith’s story. No way Smith saw Dunn fire the shots and not see Davis, Davis was in the car. we’re talking several feet, Smith’s would have seen Davis’s head. And if Dunn still gets the benefit than that juror should be removed.

  4. J4TMinATL says:

    Why didn’t the State ask their ballistic expert about bullet path/ trajectory ?

    Having the ME address it instead makes me nervous?

    I’ve combed over the Durango dowel rod pix again…the 3 in the back passenger door (Davis’ door) seem too straight on to me. It seems the only way that could occur is if the Jetta’s front door lined up closer to Davis’ door OR if Dunn shot his gun with his hands basically at the roof of his car. Something isn’t adding up.

    Am I over thinking it?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i think bettykath has made a consistently strong point which is that the durango having a higher clearance can easily pull more forward into a parking space than the jetta could. i do this myself in my chevy tahoe (very similar size etc.) mostly to get my longer body out heavily trafficked byways. i can pull up much closer to curbs in that than i can in our much smaller dodge intrepid (jetta size).

      • J4TMinATL says:

        But then she said

        bettykath on February 13, 2014 at 3:28 pm
        I think Dunn said that Jordan was out of his vehicle when he went for his gun which is why he was so scared (white men scare easily). Jordan could have gotten back in the car by the time Dunn came up with the gun.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i cannot respond to the remainder of the comment because in all actuality, we will never know if JD opened that car door and i will not speculate.

          evidence leads me to believe that there was no shotgun and that he was inside the durango when shot, that is what matters to me.

          my point was just how the durango could line up compared to a jetta in a parking space because bettykath has made that point a number of times. i know it to be true because i see it every day in my driveway.

    • Lynn says:

      I over think everything. I posted upthread but was so many hours behind in reading today so I’ll repost.

      My thought is the SUV had pulled up pretty close to the yellow barricade/bumper in his parking space. He has a big vehicle and is probably use to making sure he has pulled up to keep his tailend out of the road.

      Dunn is in a sedan with a low ground clearance according to the front view evidence pictures. Even though there is not a ground concrete in his parking space, he is probably use to leaving space upfront and has no reason to pull all the way forward.

      The height measurements for the two are 70.9 and 57.4 inches.

      It’s just a hunch or educated guess, but I’m thinking if you rest your two-handed gripped gun on or about the rolled down window sill of that Jetta it just might line up with the holes in that Durango back door. The SUV was 13.5 inches taller.

      I found myself looking at the van parked beside me today. I was leaving the parking space in my low clearance car (where I had not pulled forward as usual for fear of scraping by front bumper on the curb) and found myself staring directly into the back/sliding door of the van.

    • Why didn’t the State ask their ballistic expert about bullet path/ trajectory ?

      A ballistics expert’s area of expertise is firearms, not bullet paths through bodies.

      Having the ME address it instead makes me nervous?

      Shouldn’t make you nervous because this is one of the things that medical examiners do. They are experts about wounds and what caused them.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Thanks prof….had the engineer in the house watch ME testimony and we were attempting to reenact the shots last night and I started over thinking.

        Finally got out of house early this morning (snow finally melted) and was able to take a walk and clear the mind.

  5. And . . . more on Dunn’s website. They don’t mention that it’s also a beg site.

  6. Malisha says:

    YES! Our society needs to ostracize these murderers and tell them in no uncertain terms: “Just because our corrupt courts allow you to go unpunished, that does not mean that we must accept you in our midst. We reject you. We do not forgive you. We WOULD forgive you if you took your punishment but as it is, as you escape justice and laugh at the morals that civilization must impose, we despise you and we loathe you and we will say so and never stop saying so. You are not fit to be among us. EVER AGAIN.”

  7. Two sides to a story says:

    Meanwhile, back at the Kelly Thomas ranch. My fellow S. Californians aren’t being kind to acquitted killer cops.

  8. Sophia33 says:

    I also wonder why Rhonda is not being charged for being an accessory. When did Dunn tell her that he shot Davis? What did she know? Also, did she see the teens after they had been shot? What was her reaction? Sorry, I didn’t get a chance to see the trial. So I apologize for asking questions that may have already been posed or answered.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Dunn never told her. She told him, but he said he already knew. Rhonda says she found out the next morning at the Sheraton via TV news, after they’d had drinks ordered a pizza and gotten a couple hours of shuteye. He claims to have found out via his phone before she did. And they still didn’t call police. Instead they packed up and headed on home. At that point they didn’t know a homeless guy at the gas station had gotten Dunn’s plate number. Dunn’s claim that he’d contacted law enforcement when returning home also didn’t pan out … turns out Dunn had called an agriculture guy with some law enforcement responsibilities that he knew … Dun never called a county sheriff or city policement anywhere.

      Rhonda was a state’s witness, and a weepy mess. That was a big contrast to video of her at the police department being interviewed about the killing. She was also called back during rebuttal. Rather than perjure herself like Shellie Zimmerman, she provided several nails for Dunn’s coffin.

      If he were to get off, I think she’d be in danger.

      • Malisha says:

        She cried and wept. Not for the dead child, but for herself, thinking self-pityingly, “My life is in the pits.”

        At least she did not lie, I’ll give her that. She’s not devious. But she’s no FLorence Nightingale.

      • Sophia33 says:

        So when she walked out of the store, she never saw the teens in the car?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          sophia — had they charged her, they would have lost their star witness against dunn. if rhonda were indicted, she could have taken the 5th on the stand.

  9. Sophia33 says:

    Professor, I so wish you had a tv channel on the Web like the young turks. I so which I could hear other commentary besides that of HLN. And why do they keep putting Frank Taffe on? This is nuts.

  10. Sophia33 says:

    I just got home. I was expecting a verdict of guilty when I got here. What the heck is the jury doing?

    • Trained Observer says:

      It takes time for 12 people to discuss, especially when it’s a multiple count charging with options for convicting on lesser charges. Jurors havea mountain of evidence to wade through. And even though they may well all be in agreement on most aspects, they need to to poll on each count and if not unanimous discuss some more and take another vote. Then that needs to be transferred to a sheet for the judge. It’s easy to let someone go. When a jury has a mind to convict, knowing the stakes are higher, it’s bound to be more time-consuming.

      I’m predicting a verdict tomorrow afternoon. And hoping for conviction on all counts.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Onlly 11 1/2 hours of deliberation so far. Fogen’s took 16 and then a not guilty verdict. Better to get all details right. I hope they’re not held down by people thinking not guilty and headed for a hung jury.

  11. Liza says:

    I do not know why everyone here refers to George Zimmerman as Fogen. What does it mean?

    • bettykath says:

      It’s a Jewish thing that Malisha brought to us. It basically means he who must be forgotten. He seems to wallow in publicity, even bad publicity. We don’t want to please him. Let him be forgotten. So far it’s not working. Everyone seems to know who he is but we’re trying not to contribute to his notoriety.

    • Malisha says:

      Thanks, Bettykath. The only thing I would add to the explanation is that by having one’s name forgotten, it decreases the likelihood that the person is “inscribed in the book of life” after they die. They are “erased from living memory” as a result of their evil deeds. So rather than refer to the whole thing as the “Zimmerman case,” it is the “Trayvon Martin murder case” and the perpetrator of the murder, may his name be erased from the book of life, is called “Fogen.”

  12. J4TMinATL says:

    Wanted to clear up the letter thing.

    Davis was killed on Black Friday. Dunn wrote a letter that John Guy referred to during cross of Dunn. Guy referred to it as the Black Friday letter. It is not evidence. The jury asked the judge what date was the letter written that Guy referred to. That date is June 2013. In June, Dunn wrote a letter about the night he killed Davis and it is referred to as the Black Friday letter.

    I wrote at length (summarized with quotes) what was said by Guy and Dunn when Guy mentioned the Black Friday letter in open court.

    Barely anything was read from it as you’ll see in my summary. But it centers around the questioning of the door

    All they wanted to know was when did Dunn write a letter in jail about that night.

    They don’t have a copy of it. They only have their notes which would be similar to the summary I wrote above. It is not evidence.

  13. Two sides to a story says:
  14. bettykath says:

    Just listened to Guy’s rebuttal closing. Excellent job.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Was wondering when you would see his rebuttal. Glad you finally got to see it, bk!

      • bettykath says:

        Had to run an errand. Then found out that a cap I made yesterday was too small. Cut out new one and now ready to sew it together.

        Thanks for the encouragement. I saw most of Wolfson’s and very little of the defense closing but I saw enough. I have a real problem with people who twist things. I guess he’s doing his job but I”m not on the jury and don’t have to listen to him 🙂

  15. Trisha0620 says:

    Michael Dunn’s Neighbor Speaks to Davis Lawyer John Phillips (Highlights)
    Law Offices of John M. Phillips – St. Augustine Law Offices of John

  16. JJ says:

    Just heard an interview on HDLNS of Michael Dunn’s former neighbor. The neighbor was interviewed but never deposed for the trial. He characterized Dunn as arrogant. You don’t dare disrespect or disagree with what he says. Dunn was paranoid. The neighbor took Dunn’s gun and stored it at the request of his wife because she was afraid Dunn might kill her. Then later she came back and wanted the gun back because she was afraid of what would happen when Dunn discovered the gun missing.
    The neighbor had been interviewed by the victim’s family lawyer. Why wouldn’t the prosecution depose and call the former neighbor as a witness? Do we have another example of protecting conservative whites from conviction?
    It does seem that there are quite a few more people who believe Dunn is guilty. It’s just a matter of what the jury heard, saw and believed during the trial. But it seems to me that important character testimony was missed.

  17. J4TMinATL says:

    Oh Lord, HLN heads.

  18. Malisha says:

    Dear Karma,

    Please visit FoDungen tomorrow.

  19. The jurors will resume at 9AM. No verdict today.

  20. Boyd says:

    Thanks crane. I see nothing that helps Dunn at all. Have no idea why they call it a Black Friday letter I thought I heard the Judge say June 22. He’s recounting what he thought what happened. it’s blacked out. But I think he wants her story to match his, the little sly bastard.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Boyd, there’s a “6-26” letter to has “darling daughter” that yammers about dumping Judge Bias and getting a new one. He accuses Angela Corey of “trying to bury me in legal fees, as she knows she has no chance of conviction.”

      Then he goes on: ” If you haven’t already, ask REDACTED to e-mail you my recounting of what happeened that night.”

      Further down he says “Cory, my attorney, says I have a much stronger case of self-defense than Zimmerman does. He said that I should not worry if he looses (SIC) , but it’s a great sign if he wins.”

      • Boyd says:

        yeah I saw that one too. Blacked out and not on a Friday. lol!. , I’m betting they want a timeline of his different versions to make sure he can’t escape a murder 1. That’s what I’m hoping for.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          It’s a letter written in June about Black Friday in November.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Same here. By now, it’s clearly not going to be a quick “let him go.” I’m betting their parsing (as they should) over M1, M2, or manslaughter — with the three attempted murders a given.

          Wonder if Dunn’s beginning to doubt his thoughts on “no chance of conviction.”

          • Malisha says:

            “No chance of conviction” was based on his idea that the word of a white man would automatically be given precedence over the words of any number of “thugs.” Under Slave Law in the South, a Black was not allowed to testify against a White, period. He was probably thinking that the “custom of the country” would still hold. After all, he told the police: “I was scared to death and now you’re calling me a murderer?” As if all he had to do (if caught, which he thought he would not be) was to say that it was self-defense and bim bam magic, the charges would go away.

  21. Trained Observer says:

    Waiting for a verdict is tedious:

    In what’s quite possibly a first for the Leatherman Law Blog, I now enter into evidence: Michael Dunn’s personally recommended recipe to Rhonda (the love of his life) for Vodka Gimlet.

    Dunn tells Rhonda it’s what novelist Stuart Woods’ Stone Barrington, a fictitious N.Y. lawyer, likes to knock back:

    3 parts vodka
    1 part Rose’s sweetened lime juice

    Dunn advises Rhonda “it’s not as strong as a martini, though you drink it from a martini glass.”

    He goes on: “Take a full fifth of odka, pour six ounces into another bottle and replace that with the lime juice. Put that bottle in the freezer and do not serve over ice. Try it and let me know.”

    By the way, am not sure which Woods novel Dunn pulled this from, but the Stone Barrington series titles include “Stand Up Guy,” “Carnal Curiosity,” and (my favorite) “Doing Hard Time.”

    Happy Valentine’s Day all, and let’s hope for a just verdict tomorrow. and

  22. 12 individual & unique human beings deciding the fate of 1 man. That is a sobering task and some fairly heavy shit.

  23. Cory Strolla: “This isn’t a black and white issue.”

    Really, Pinocchio? Because every single letter your client wrote is a racist rant. In one, your client openly admits his bigotry and says that now that he is in jail, he is even “more prejudiced.”

    His two words: more prejudiced.

    • Malisha says:

      “More prejudiced” because in jail he is not “special” and he cannot conduct himself in his high-handed ways based on white privilege, racist arrogance, and the bravery of having a loaded gun within easy reach. “More prejudiced” because he isn’t allowed to act superior and decide how everyone ELSE must act. He’d be a lot “less prejudiced” if we gave him back his gun and his old life and the right to kill whomever he was less prejudiced against.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That’s quite a polite understatement.

    • Rachael says:

      What are those people going to think if they acquit him and then read his letters?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I often wonder what Fogen’s jury thinks of him now, after all his silly stunts.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          Me too. Must eat at their soul.

          • Malisha says:

            I don’t think Fogen’s jury has the gift of guilt. I don’t think (with the possible exception of foolish Maddie) they care about anything except excusing the to-them-justifiable killing of a young uppity kid who needed to learn that he should not have “mouthed off” at a white man.

      • I really don’t know. And I can’t imagine. But they have some letter from June. Not sure which one but they are all essentially derogatory racist rants. So they have seen what they need to see.

  24. Dave says:

    Well, she was in the store when Dunn killed Jordan Davis. She only knew what Dunn told her until she heard about the shooting from the TV the next morning. I don’t think that either of them knew for certain until then that Jordan was dead. At that point she probably didn’t know whether to be more afraid of the police, the “thugs” or Dunn.

    • Trisha0620 says:

      Dave she knew the shooter was in her car, the clerk pointed him out when she turned around

      • Malisha says:

        And in her interview with the police, she says that she told the clerks not to worry because the shooter was “just Michael.” As if, “don’t worry; it’s just Michael; he won’t shoot any of us non-thuggy people, you don’t have to worry.”

        My boyfriend is shooting and shooting, more than six shots, and I say to someone, “don’t worry”? That’s “just” Michael? Just?

        • Boyd says:

          yeah , it’s just the Joker coming to kill us all. That’s what I’d be thinking and how to get out from behind that counter. I could not believe she just stood there.

          • Malisha says:

            I wonder if perhaps this was not the first time FoDungen shot up a car in a parking lot of a convenience store and then drove away while people ran around in circles wondering who dunnit? Rhonda’s “that’s just Michael” response wouldn’t make sense unless…

            It reminds me of Osterman calling Shellie and saying, “George shot somebody else”…

            Maybe the cover-ups are about not letting it be known that these offenses that come to public light are not first offenses after all. Unsolved homicides in Manassas, Virginia? Drive-by shootings in Central Florida that have not been solved? Huh…

        • Dave says:

          I sorta suspect that she might have had more than a couple of drinks at the wedding.

    • Boyd says:

      He’s had enough shooting practice, He knew it

    • ay2z says:

      Dave, I seem to remember that in the closing, Guy said that Dunn learned at 1 AM, about Jordan’s death yet he did not wake Rhonda, then at 5 AM, he went back to bed.

      One version I recall, was that Rhonda put the tv on in the morning, the other, the tv was on when she awoke.

  25. Malisha says:

    Can you imagine being right with a man when he shoots a kid dead? Ugh. What is she MADE of?

  26. Very sorry, Here you go:

    Michael Dunn’s Letters from Jail
    January 30, 2013 – Letter to Son or Daughter
    February 2, 2013- Letter to Sibling
    February 12, 2013 – Letter to Sibling
    February 20, 2013 – Letter to Grandma ______
    February 24, 2013- Letter to Grandma
    May 7, 2013 – Letter to Grandma
    May 15, 2013 – Letter to Grandma
    May 15, 2013 – Letter to _______
    May 20, 2013 – Letter to Michelle
    June 14, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    June 22, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    June 23, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    June 26, 2013 – Letter to Daughter
    June 26, 2013 – Letter to ______
    June 30, 2013 – Letter to Mom and Dad
    July 1, 2013 – Letter to Mom
    After July 1st – Letter to _____
    July 2, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    July 3, 2013 – Letter to Cousin
    July 4, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    July 4, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    July 5, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    July 7, 2013 – Letter to Rhonda
    July 12, 2013 – Letter to Daughter
    December 5, 2012 – Letter to Rhonda

    Each letter listed has a link.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thanks! Wow, you’re working overtime, Crane!

      • And so have you guys. We are truly thankful. Fred came home with a handful of stuff that he has to take for 14 days…so we are grateful for the help!

        That said, how ’bout those vile letters, huh? Wow. There are several from June. Which one is the Black Friday Letter?

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Good question. To me, Black Friday is the shopping day after Thanksgiving that I dutifully ignore.

          • Us too. We haven’t been to a mall in many years.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            But now J4TMATL – I can’t recall the name, points out Dunn killed Jordan on BLack Friday below and the June letter is the one that talks about the event that guy brought up in court. . . I’m so sad the boys wanted to go out to a mall on BF and then crossed paths with Dunn. Too sad.

  27. joseph norton says:

    I do not know why Strolla or his client are thinking those letters
    are conduct to freedom.The letters pointing out to an individual that have social problems and want to live like a thug.

  28. Brandy says:

    Well, we have a half hour to go for a verdict, if no verdict the Judge will send them back to hotel for rest of night. sigh

  29. Trisha0620 says:

    I agree Boyd, no one saw anyone else out of that SUV but the driver that was in the store

  30. Boyd says:

    The contractor Witness Smith only heard Dunn , saw Dunn’s gun and saw gun fire. he never said he saw anyone get out of the car, I think he would have noticed that

  31. Trisha0620 says:

    oops store video

  32. Trisha0620 says:

    You guys Im really wondering about this girl friend, the store window that she is at the counter the clerk while she is standing there says the guy is shooting and points the the car then the GF turns around while the clerk gets down, then the GF walks to the door and leaves her stuff behind and then stands there at the door looking out for a few minutes before she steps outside, when she is in the store you hear 7 shots the others had to have taken place when she went out that door.

  33. Two sides to a story says:

    Are the jurors checking out the reference to thug culture in June letter?

    • ZCBest says:

      I think they are examining every word as they go back and forth between the guilty options. I don’t think it is even a possibility for them to acquit. I think they are not sure if it is murder 1 so they are trying to see what he said to see his overall mindset. The thug reference most certainly stands out in the letter because he said the term thug was not one he was familiar with when he was on the stand. Welp, if he wasn’t familiar with on Black Friday ’12, then he hastily got familiar with it to be writing about it in June ’13. I call bullshyt.

      I’ll take, what’s a thug for for $1000 Alex.

  34. neveragain says:

    Wait, I’m sorry but I started listening to the trial when Dunn was on the stand…..there were two gun shots on both if jordann’s thighs near his groin area???…and the jury believe he was standing?? how long did he stand there after he saw Dunn taking the gun out of the gkove box???…and why didn’t Dunn aim higher??…but Dunn said he dove back in…in a sitting position??…after being shot near the groin??….more like he cakmky sat back in

  35. Two sides to a story says:

    June 2013 letter?

  36. Trisha0620 says:

    and didn’t
    she say on the stand Dunn didnt tell her at the time that JD had a gun

  37. I am confused. Are they eating dinner now, or are they deliberating until 6:15 PM?

  38. J4TMinATL says:

    The Black Friday letter I talked about at length above is not evidence. It was not entered as evidence. Jury wants to know date that Guy mentioned during cross that I went into great length above. It’s the Black Friday letter. Jury only has information about the letter presented during testimony that I typed out above.

    • crazy1946 says:

      The letter in question is one that supposedly type written, and not dated…. They think it was written in June 2013. It is not the black Friday letter that is in question….

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Judge specifically said it was the ‘Black Friday’ letter.

      • J4TMinATL says:


        I could be wrong but the letter was about Black Friday not necessarily written in on Black Friday in November hence the June date.

        “Guy referred to a letter he wrote about the day after Thanksgiving called “Black Friday.””

        • crazy1946 says:

          Sorry about the delay in answering, was the alleged black Friday letter typed or hand written? I don’t want to argue about black Friday or green Monday, but the one thing that caught my attention was the complaint that it was not in Done Dunn’s hand writing… If I am incorrect then so be it, I am prone to make mistakes, but unlike some, I try to admit it when I do….

          • J4TMinATL says:

            I would have to go back and watch the cross of Dunn to see what the problem and objections were. It was barely talked about. It isn’t evidence and jury will not see copy of it. I cleared up confusion that some have about the letter way down below.

            I’m wondering why they want to know when it was written / typed. Trying to think what the question suggests. Davis was killed on Black Friday and this letter referenced by Guy in open court was written in June (7 months later) about the events of that night.

            : )

  39. neveragain says:

    A funny part is where Dunn is being questioned on the jail letters and he says I wrote tgat to my family,,, I did not intend fir you to get this……like who the hell are you fooling dunn….you really believe that the prosecutiin wiukd not see those letters??…you thought they would not request them….

  40. Trisha0620 says:

    Dunn wrote a lot of letters, but in this case his story might have changed again in this letter, and Guy went at him over this letter on cross.. I might have to go back and review that .

  41. Boyd says:

    They are idiots in Florida , these killers lie and the fools try to unravel it and make a bigger mess.

  42. Two sides to a story says:

    #VerdictWatch #Pray4Justice #JordanDavis

    A post shared by Delo Taylor (@delo_taylor) on

  43. Boyd says:

    what’s the significance of the date, or I’ll have to get Monk to tell me.

  44. Brandy says:

    Looks like we will get a Valentine’s Day Verdict.

  45. Brandy says:

    Maybe there are stuck between M1 and M2. One can hope 🙂 If Dunn got M2, how many years would he get? anyone know? TIA

    • Dave says:

      Minimum 25 years, Maximum Life.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        and i really cannot see how he could be acquitted on the attempted murder charges considering he fired at the rear of a vehicle heading away from him.

        the consequences of letting that slide are enormous — if acquitted, it means not only can you open fire in open spaces if you ‘believe’ your life is in danger, it does not matter who might be caught in cross fire.

  46. Boyd says:

    shit my version of the letter has it blacked out

  47. Which jailhouse letter is exhibit 201? Does anyone know?

    Plus, it looks like a dinner break until 6:15PM.

  48. Two sides to a story says:

    This is even more nerve-wracking than the Fogen trial. Only chants like this one are keeping me sane today.

  49. Judge Healey sending alternates back to hotel, to remain on standby.

  50. nf ‏@Lstblkgrl 55s
    “@keithboykin: Juror have until 6:15 p.m. to reach a verdict in #DunnTrial or they will be released until tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.” 😰

  51. J4TMinATL says:

    @Brandy and others: Black Friday Letter

    Rachael on February 12, 2014 at 1:26 pm
    I thought I caught something that no one seems to have mentioned, although they might have, I haven’t been able to follow much, but yesterday, Dunn said that Jordan got back in the car when he saw him (Dunn) going for his gun – so doesn’t that mean he shot him in cold blood? Jordan got back in the car – he retreated – but Dunn done shot him anyway. Has anyone mentioned that?

    J4TMinATL on February 12, 2014 at 2:05 pm
    @Racheal yes on cross it was said


    “After the continued threat of, ‘You’re dead bitch,’ now the door opens and this young man gets out and as his head clears the window frame he says, ‘This shit’s going down now.’ This is the point where my death is imminent, he’s coming to kill me, he’s coming to beat me…he made it clear what his intentions were.”


    “She doesn’t understand self-defense but you’re right, she was very upset over what I had done. I don’t know what I said but I told her they had a weapon…they threatened my life and they…he…advanced upon me. When he just had a gun I didn’t shoot him. It wasn’t until he made specific threats and got out of his car and came after me.”

    John Guy: “The truth is Mr. Dunn, you never told Rhonda Rouer ever, that they had a gun?”

    Dunn: “You weren’t there.”

    John Guy: “Did you?”

    Dunn: “I said you were not there.”

    John Guy: “Jordan Davis was never a threat to you was he Mr. Dunn?”

    Dunn: “Absolutely he was. Not only did he get out….his head cleared the window frame.”

    Guy asks Dunn about a letter he wrote about the day after Thanksgiving called “Black Friday.” Guy reads: ”He had apparently seen me go for my own weapon and dove back inside the SUV.”

    Dunn: “…it’s splitting hairs if his feet were outside but his body was inside.”

    • Rachael says:

      I don’t believe what he said ( ”He had apparently seen me go for my own weapon and dove back inside the SUV.”) but even if that were true, he had no business shooting him because he retreated. The danger was gone.

    • neveragain says:

      Yes, guy did mention….so Jordan had a gun and when he sees u going fir your gun,instead of shooting he dives back in the vehicle?? And Dunn explainss away his actions at the moment he was in fear of his life, at that moment you don’t think properly,he just did what he thought he had to do to save his life……i may not be correct but I think Dunn also mentioned that it was four against one, so he was insinuating that Jordan wad probably comming out to beat him up, and you know in that situation your mind is racing, he only remember pressing the triger once….but he was smart enought to wuickly think about bullets hitting his fiance comming out of the store so he jept shoiting at them to keep tgeir heads down so they would not get a chance to fire back….he even gave a special term for shots comming from a driving vehicle

  52. colin black says:

    Dunn should develop a taste for cockmeat sandwiches from big bob.

  53. Trained Observer says:

    Do we know which letter? There are several in the dump. To his grandma, parents, daughter, to weeping Rhonda … and to unclear recipients.

  54. colin black says:

    This Is ok dotting i AN CROSSING t S

    wIch is a good sign this is not minituie there looking at.

    Its vital that there paying attention to his state of mind whilst penning letters that try to influance wittnesses recolation of events as they unfolded.
    An persude them to concour with his traumatise memorys.

    In laymans terms wittness tampering.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Colin — in one letter to Rhonda, he says: “If I don’t come home soon then I’ll be there later that’s a promise … ”

      After listenig to the video Crane posted above from Dunn’s former neighbor which paints a dreadful picture of this bully, I now realize that might passage might have been more of a threat than a promise.

      You are right in that jury might be looking for evidence of witness tampering, not that he’s been charged with such.

      If he gets off, Rhonda might well be a candidate for witness protection.

      • Anne says:

        I have been saying this for days. Such a stark contrast between Rhonda Rouer’s police interview and court room testimony. That woman is in fear of an acquittal!!!!

  55. neveragain says:

    Didn’t Dunn say his fear akso was the fact that all four would beat, that is after Jordan started beating him up his freinds would join in him, which is it Dunn?..did you really see a gun or you feared Jordan was comming out to beat you up?… someone pointed out if u see a gun why do you think you would be quick eniugh to shoot first and you gun was in the glovebox…..just drive away……anyone who rolls down a window and ask an alleged angry teen who has been cussing and talking about killing, if you rolldown your window to ask if he is talking about u chances are u are looking gor a challenge

    • neveragain says:

      I was on a bus when a black guy, a stupid thug kicked a white guy severel times becaause he stumbled and held unto him to keep from falling, I looked around he ended up threatening me because I said oh my god…I looked around and everyone was looking away, they and there were a couple white men on the bus who was bigger than the thug….I kept looking at them they all knew that this guy was a trouble maker and probably had a weapon that is why he was acting like that….they alk minded their business, everybody on the bus was quiet…….

      • sighhhhh says:

        ^ the comment above is racist as all hell.

        • neveragain says:

          Y is it racist?..I am black…there were some black women on the bus but the men I looked at who could physicslly beat the guy were white…..the look on their faces showed that tgey knew that the thug would pulk ouf a weapon is someone looked at him the wrong way….every bidy had that look on their face

        • concernedczen says:

          agreed sighhhhh

  56. Boyd says:

    we have someone who’s decided to be Dunn’s lawyer and put on his defense. Not one lawyer on either side thought this was important.

  57. J4TMinATL says:

    Went back over testimony. My opinion is at the bottom. The jurors are asking questions about the things I expected them to. They’re going through it exactly as I have. The Black Friday letter is now a question….which I talked about in a response to a question by Rachael. It’s clear that they are hashing out whether Davis got out of the car.

    Opening statements by Strolla: Leland Brunson initially told police JD was getting out of the car. Four days later they claimed Tommie had the child locks activated, preventing him from getting out. “You know why he didn’t duck? He was getting out of the car with a weapon.”

    At least one person is questioning “how one of the bullets could have entered Davis’ thigh if both of his feet were pointed forward toward the front seat as the teenagers in the Durango and law enforcement officials said.”

    “You have lack of evidence, conflicts of evidence and reasonable doubt. Davis’ friends said his window was rolled up except for a few inches but the evidence shows his window was rolled all the way down.”

    Strolla pulled out the dummy and asks how the gunshot wounds could defy physics.
    “One of the bullet holes in the vehicle is almost straight on. The other bullet holes are at a right-angle. This isn’t the Matrix…bullets don’t move. They go straight. Jordan Davis had every chance to get out of the car just like Mr. Dunn said and he did. You can’t defy the law of physics and you can’t hide the truth, it doesn’t work.”

    Medical Examiner’s testimony:

    Simons said Davis was sitting in the Durango and leaning away from Dunn when he was shot in the abdomen.

    Simons said the bullet wound to Davis’ abdomen is what killed him. The bullet entered his right side and damaged his ribs, diaphragm, liver, aorta and lungs. He was dead within minutes. Davis also was shot twice in the leg.

    “The bullet wound that pierced Davis’ chest would have been fatal in a matter of minutes. Two other wounds pierced Davis’ right and left thighs near his groin.”

    She showed them the clothing Davis was wearing, showing the bullet holes in the clothing she said were consistent with wounds on his body.

    Simons used the dummy to demonstrate for jurors the path bullets might have taken as they entered his body. “Davis was most likely sitting in the rear right passenger seat of the Durango, leaning towards the left side of the car when he was fatally shot.”

    On cross, Simons said the evidence shows Davis was in the SUV, not in a standing position.

    JSO homicide detective Travis Oliver said he examined the child locks on the and they didn’t seem to be engaged. He admitted not putting this in a supplemental report because he didn’t know anything about it.

    Thompson on direct said that it was the child door locks that were engaged but the others disagreed.

    At the end of the day, Dunn lost control of his use of force.

    • Malisha says:

      Anyway, opening a door or getting out of a car is not a crime (just as Fogen following Trayvon Martin in the dark was not a crime) so how does it even matter if Davis was sitting straight up feet forward, leaning, opening or not opening a door, getting out or not getting out of a car? He was unarmed. He was shot dead with three bullets as he and the others were fleeing. How can there be “doubt” based on his posture and physical position? Is there a position a Black kid can assume that makes it not a crime to shoot him dead? What is that position? Perhaps a position that is not a BOW or KOWTOW? Or WHAT?

      • J4TMinATL says:

        I’m just presenting what was presented.

        The ME was very clear that she believed he couldn’t have received the injuries standing up.

        Jury will see that.

  58. Brandy says:

    This is not good!! If they cant reach a guilty verdict by now there is something going on

    • Dave says:

      Brandy, please don’t panic yet. Dunn is charged with one count of Murder 1 (with lesser included charges of Murder 2 and Manslaughter), three counts of attempted Murder 1 (with lesser included charges of Attempted Murder 2 and Attempted Manslaughter) and one count of Shooting or Projecting Missiles (something like that anyway). They have to decide which SPECIFIC charges he is guilty of (if any)–not just a simple Guilty or Not Guilty. Remember that all twelve jurors have to agree whether Dunn is guilty or not guilty on each count. I’m glad that they are taking the time to examine and discuss all the evidence.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Just tallying votes on each of these counts after full discussion is time consuming. If the vote is close, more discussion can bring unanimity, and then the jury can move on … but the clock keeps ticking.

  59. Trisha0620 says:

    there is something in that letter they are focused on, and that isnt good for Dunn, anyone know where I can review this letter..

  60. Brandy says:

    I am not liking this at all

  61. Trisha0620 says:

    now they want to know when a letter was written.

  62. Brandy says:

    asking about when a letter was written by Dunn

  63. Question from jury about a written letter: When was this letter written?

  64. Boyd says:

    Someone in that Jury wants Dunn to walk. Evidence 201?

  65. Brandy says:

    Another jury question

  66. Back in the courtroom.

  67. Two sides to a story says:

    Chants like this one keep me calm and focused on not hating the shooters.

    • Brandy says:

      Thanks, Lets see… Casey Anthony walked, GZ walked. Don’t have any faith in the jurors in Florida. I am trying to think positive but not easy. Thanks again for the video 🙂

      • blushedbrown says:


        wrote: The height of the driver of the Jetta is very relevant, because when the seat goes back the harder it would be to make a two handed shot thru the opening due to the door post location

        Ok. I’m easy going. Height stays. 🙂

        Let me see if I can find the data on the cars…….

  68. Brandy says:

    It is beyond obvious what happened here and don’t understand why it is taking so long for this jury to reach a verdict of Guilty! Cant stand the waiting. I Pray they do the right thing here and don’t let this evil man walk.

  69. Brandy says:

    If Dunn was in such fear why didn’t he just back out and drive away from the situation himself and call 911? Because he is a lying POS and he was the aggressor and he wanted to shoot and kill some black kids Period!

    • Boyd says:

      He’s nowhere near as smart as he thinks, No way I’d be in court testifying that I called Police when I know they must have the phone records….

    • bettykath says:

      It’s hard to use commons sense when white privilege arrogance is hell bent on teaching that mouthy kid a lesson.

  70. crazy1946 says:

    There are some people on this blog with pretty good minds, so I would like someone to try to answer a question that is bothering me about the shots that were fired. It has been stated that the shots that hit Jordan were the first three fired and that the angle is wrong so he had to have had the door open. Now think about this for a moment Done Dunn is six feet four inches tall and in a small car, you must assume that the seat was all the way to the rear of it’s track for him to drive it… If anyone has a small car put the seat all the way to the rear and put your hands together as if you were holding a pistol to shoot it, you physically can’t hit the rear door straight if you wanted to, you could however hit the front door but at an angle much like the entry holes indicate. Now think farther, if the Durango was backing up and angled to the right as it was escaping, then you could put three shots into the read door with no apparent angle to the entry holes…. Is my thinking totally flawed or is this possibly the explanation for the holes in the rear door?

    Please forgive me if my words are difficult to follow (I have a major headache), let me know and I will attempt to clarify my point….

    • Boyd says:

      No wonder you have a headache. I don’t know. Did he have a Jetta? I used to own that crappy machine I’m 5-9 and I had my seat all the way back in that thing. I have to assume he was leaned forward to get a good shot off. Else it’s a better shot out the rear window, right?

      • crazy1946 says:

        Boyd, My point exactly, I think the shots that were fired first were the ones that went into the front door and the shots that killed Jordan were the second set that hit the rear door as they were attempting to escape…. That is good reason to call it premeditated… IMO

        • J4TMinATL says:

          It’s been established by Homicide that the first 3 shots went to JD’s door, and next set went into front passenger door as the truck backed out.

        • Malisha says:

          I can’t form a picture in my mind. I’m sure my son or any good physicist or engineer could, but I can’t. Somehow, the angle from which Fodung could reasonably have shot WOULD put the three bullets into Davis through the back door. It would take a diagram to show how, and I don’t know how to diagram it. So I’m with you in the “I don’t know” camp.

          It was a little easier to be able to figure out that Fogen couldn’t have drawn his gun out from under his right buttock while being sat on and head-pounded. I didn’t need pictures. I have an elbow and … ahem … the necessary other parts to try it myself and without a diagram I concluded, “uh…NOT!” But this one is, I admit, harder.

          • Malisha says:

            That said, only if there were a bullet-hole that showed a bullet had come from INSIDE the SUV out toward FoDung would I have any kind of hesitation to concluding that he did not kill in self-defense. Stupid FoDung; he should have konked his head and had Rhonda put bandaids on him and then he woulda gotten off scott free.

    • blushedbrown says:


      Do you know the make, model and year of both cars?

      The height of each car are relevant to this scenario.

      His height is irrelevant , only because he is in a seated position in his car. The height of each car are relevant.
      The gun is pointed outside of his driver’s side window, his window is down because there is no damage to his window.

      Its where the gun is at. The cashier said, He’s shooting from inside the car. He aimed at Jordon’s door because that is the one arguing with him.

      you wrote:
      It has been stated that the shots that hit Jordan were the first three fired and that the angle is wrong so he had to have had the door open.

      Clarify please.

      Need more input from ya!

      • crazy1946 says:

        blushedbrown, The car driven by Done Dunn was a VW Jetta, I don’t know the year model. The other vehicle was a Dodge Durango SUV, year model again I do not know. I did see a similar set of vehicles next to each other a few weeks ago at a grocery store, that is what caused me to question the shot sequence. The bottom of the rear window of the Durango was just about even with the top of the Jetta. The height of the driver of the Jetta is very relevant, because when the seat goes back the harder it would be to make a two handed shot thru the opening due to the door post location, sit in your car and you will soon realize what I am talking about. Note, the location of the shots in the front door of the Durango would have been about the middle (vertically) of the window opening of the Jetta. I would submit that if the shots in the rear door were made first, due to the size of the shooter and his stating he used two hands to hold and discharge the weapon, the angle would have been such that they would not have entered the interior of the Durango at an angle to have even hit Jordan…. I still suspect the shots that killed Jordan were the second set…

      • bettykath says:

        An SUV is higher off the ground than a Jetta. This allows the Durango to pull in further than the Jetta. This would put the rear door of the Durango further forward and result in a slightly smaller angle than if the two cars were fully aligned. Witnesses, including Dunn, say he turned to shoot at the back seat. The front edges of the bullet holes are sharp and back edges are wider. I believe the ones in the front door were as the car was backing out w/ Dunn still firing at the back seat but hitting the front door b/c the car had moved. The shape of the holes in the front door are similar to those in the back door.

        • bettykath says:

          What I’m suggesting is that the first 6 shots were all intended for Jordan but ended up aimed at the front seat passenger b/c the car was backing up. This wasn’t pointed out by the prosecution, but it would help nail M1. As it is, it should help nail AM1.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          That’s correct bk.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      I’m starting to question this now. The door had to be open to get that angle or Jetta’s front door was even to Durango’s back door or the sequence is out of order….

      Something is off….bothering me now.

      • crazy1946 says:

        J4TMinATL, Perhaps you might sit in your own vehicle and try to replicate the scenario, I did and the actions described by the investigators just does not add up in real life…

    • Lynn says:

      My thought is the SUV had pulled up pretty close to the yellow barricade/bumper in his parking space. He has a big vehicle and is probably use to making sure he has pulled up to keep his tailend out of the road.

      Dunn is in a sedan with a low ground clearance according to the front view evidence pictures. Even though there is not a ground concrete in his parking space, he is probably use to leaving space upfront and has no reason to pull all the way forward.

      The height measurements for the two are 70.9 and 57.4 inches.

      It’s just a hunch or educated guess, but I’m thinking if you rest your two-handed gripped gun on or about the rolled down window sill of that Jetta it just might line up with the holes in that Durango back door. The SUV was 13.5 inches taller.

      I found myself looking at the van parked beside me today. I was leaving the parking space in my low clearance car (where I had not pulled forward as usual for fear of scraping by front bumper on the curb) and found myself staring directly into the back/sliding door of the van.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Lynn, The one thing that none of you has considered is that because of Done Dunn’s physical size he could not have turned to the left and done a “two” handed shot toward the rear of the vehicle… I again went out to my Ford Explorer and put the seat all the way to the rear and I was unable to do it with two hand, one handed yes but two handed no way…. You compared your vehicle with a mini van, but now add the length of the hood of the Durango and your door post would be almost at the leading edge of the front door of the Durango. I’m not going to say that absolutely the investigators were wrong, but a few things don’t add up. Note if the shots that hit Jordan were actually the second set, then he would have probably been in the physical position that the ME described in an effort to get out of the line of fire… However after saying all that, it really does not matter at this point, the case has gone to the jury and this is now just speculation on my part….

        • blushedbrown says:


          check out the big guy, red shirt on towards the end of video.

          All of the shooters used two hands.

          Maybe this visual can help you see that it can be done. 🙂

          • crazy1946 says:

            Lynn, Look at the target area and the seat position and add into the equation the physical size (6’4″ 250 lb) of Done Dunn and also the alleged bad back limiting twisting motion and you might realize he could not shoot the gun past the door post… Note: the target these people were aiming were all forward of the door post and none had the seat all the way to the rear… Go to your vehicle and try it, you will quickly realize my concern… Perhaps I am 1000% wrong, and it will not be the first time. but I do question which sequence the shots were fired…

  71. Shit people say, when they are arrested for murdering unarmed teens, and they are trying to make up ‘gangster’ talk.

    You got a problem homie?

    Die, bitch.

    Kill that bitch.

    Kill that motherfucker.

    This shit’s going down now.

  72. neveragain says:

    Hey I’m not implying that I believe that Jordan got out of the vehicle and even if he did get out that is no reason to shoot him fatally….but when one steps iut of a vehicle they can expose either side of their body regardless on what side they are sitting, all it takes is a quick turn/ pivot to have your right or left side facing the front of the vehicle…

    • blushedbrown says:


      I understand that you are not implying that, its a discussion.

    • Right. Like what Dunn apparently did. That was addressed, I believe, by the prosecution. Why would Dunn turn, fiddle around getting something out of a glove box…basically exposing himself…if he truly felt he was threatened.

      • He wouldn’t. If Dunn thought he saw a gun, he would have done what the Durango driver did: get out of there as fast as possible. I pray that the jury has the same common sense that you and others here display.

  73. YQ says:

    I think that the door was closed or Davis is found dead on the ground instead of the SUV, especially with the SUV backing away to leave the scene.

    • Boyd says:

      Yes that too. cars too close , Can’t open the door and falls right back in the car, feet and all. right!

      • YQ says:

        ….And still manages to close the door behind him while fatally wounded…??? Or did Leland help him back in, all while Dunn is still tagging the side of the vehicle like a mad man???

        If Davis got out of the car then there’s absolutely no way he was able to get back in according to the way the story has panned out. And this is before we even get to the reason why he would have gotten out of the truck in that situation if he was unarmed.

    • crazy1946 says:

      YQ, actually he would have been found on the ground and the Jetta could not have left the scene because off the damage from the door of the Durango dissecting it’s side…. that door would have been forced into the side of the Jetta by the weight of Jordan’s body and the rearward motion of the Durango would have been like opening a tin can…

      • neveragain says:

        yep, I don’t think Jordan would have borthered to clise the door if the first shot struck him through the door while the door was still open….but Dunn said the door might have closed when the vehicle was moving…didn’t they reverse before going foward?…again the door could not have opened wide because of the closeness of the 2 vehicles

      • YQ says:

        Yes I agree. Wolfson touched on the fact that there were no scratches on the black Jetta. A car going full speed in reverse with the door and slinging away from the open door… that momentum would force the door open and the closeness of the two vehicle would leave a scratch. No way the driver is driving to avoid impact with another car in the event that there are bullets flying at him.

      • neveragain says:

        I meant he woukd not have bothered to close the door and he would not have gotten his feet in a perfect sitting position unless Dunn is implying that the door was still open after Jordan jumped back in and sat down and he took the first shot while sitting with the door open…..I would not si if I saw a gun, I would lie down in that carscream he has a gun

        • neveragain says:

          I would dive down belly on the seat or side ribs on the seat , I would not have time to put my legs in from that adrenaline rush….I would just leave my legs hanging out and crawl further in as mush as I coukd

        • YQ says:

          Caught him off guard…. Dunn is a slimey son-a-bitch!!!

    • Dave says:

      Is there any video footage that shows exactly how far apart the two cars were? Possibly from the “driveaway” cams by the gas pumps?

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Don’t believe so Dave. Dunn was the one who originally said they were so close to each other when he talked to police. I can’t find any proof of it. Could it be on one of the six camera angles we did not see but jurors did? Possibly. But I’m not putting any stock in the distance between them. On cross, Thompson said Jordan would have no problem exiting because he was small (thin). Thompson said however he would not have been able to because he is bigger. Important to remember that Dunn is the one that initially said it to police.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        I wish there was actual proof Dave. There isn’t that I’ve seen so in my mind it’s possible and likely that any of the doors could have opened and Dunn and Thompson and Davis could have exited if they needed to or wanted to (not that they did). That’s why I consider it irrelevant. Sounds as if jury is still deliberating on main charge and hasn’t even addressed the 3 attempted charges. What are your thoughts?

      • towerflower says:

        There were no outside cameras at the station, only inside and non show the vehicles or the shooting.

      • Dave says:

        Thanks J4T and TF!

    • roderick2012 says:

      True and there was none of Jordan’s blood on the ground.

  74. Boyd says:

    Thanks Blushed for the video link. I’m not the smartest guy in the room , If the door was open and Davis out of the car, getting out, it looks to be an impossible angle shots. All 3 shots on the door are closer to the hinge than the door’s latch.

    If the door is ajar and you’re in a getting out position most of your body would closest to where the door closes not closest to the the hinge. And Also how to explain the path of the bullet in Davis. I could not

    The ME did her homework she concluded correctly, this should not be an issue

    • blushedbrown says:


      Your welcome.
      The trajectory does not add up with the way the bullets entered and rested or exited his body. I guess that’s why the jurors wanted Bendi. They have to give Dunn’s testimony review. If he says he was standing they have to consider that, That being said, Bendi with the dowels showing the way the bullets entered and exited would prove to themselves that he was not standing when shot.

      Most people do not like touching other people. Two of the bullet wounds are not in places where you want a stranger touching you. Bendi would of been very helpful for them. People are visual by nature.

      That is why Strolla decided against the aide going back to them in deliberations.

      PS You are plenty smart. 🙂

      • YQ says:

        I agree… but also they can use what they have in writing and draw it out themselves, and then compare them to the photos? Not sure if it could be accurate enough in this situation. The jurors IMO will have a hard time putting Davis on his feet at the time of the shooting. I know I would.

        • blushedbrown says:

          Yeah but its not the same as using Bendi. 🙂
          Bendi I can stand up, I can sit down, lean him over, touch him in the areas where the bullets holes were placed. Its not the same with pen and paper and photos. If you get my meaning.

          Boy oh boy I wish they had gotten the mannequin.

  75. Two sides to a story says:

    Here’s the Strolla presser if you missed it – I did.

  76. Fred goes to the doctor.

    Doctor: When’s the last time you had a physical?

    Fred: 1968.

    Doctor: Well, I guess you don’t need one now.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      THANKS, OBAMA!!! (watch out for them death panels)

      (i realize fred and i both have medicare. i have no problem saying it’s the best damn insurance i’ve ever had, mostly cause they can’t kick me off for having had cancer or for getting it again.)

      • Well, that said, and even though his visit was brief, I am happy to report that he returned with appropriate prescriptions, to treat a sinus infection that was rapidly moving to the lungs!

  77. neveragain says:

    @ trained observer…I am talking about an expert,a professional…..if the defence did not provide a professional/expert to refute the medical examiner claim, why does the jury belive they have better knowlege about bullet trajectory than an expert?

    • neveragain says:

      I agree that proffesinals can be biased…like the professional who wanted to explain away y Dunn did not call 911, or the winess on the trayvon trial that was talking about FLUIIDITY of the fight, or the others on the trayvon case talking bullshit……..but this is bullet trajectory…..why didn’t the defence get an expert to refute the ME’s claim???…..

    • Trained Observer says:

      Then “no.” As mentioned, only Dunn came forth to pontificate … because he’s so smart, you know. ..

  78. colin black says:

    The jurours in the CAYLEE MURDER .

    Did not reqeust to reveiw one scrap of testomany or vt ao anything pertaing to the case.

    Infoggages trial they only requested one item a clarification on a manslaughter verdict ,But then quickly changed there request to .

    Forget about it we dont need it ,We have managed to browbeat the nay sayer into a yea sayer.

    So the more questions an evidence they want to puruse the better I feel.

  79. I absolutely love this jury owning their responsibility to decide this case in a way that answers all of their potentially answerable questions, leaving no stone unturned.

    They ain’t taking nothing for granted or assuming that anyone, including the lawyers, necessarily told the truth.

    This is the way it should work and was designed to work.
    Let the People decide.

    We’re living on jury time right now and there isn’t a damn thing we can do to speed-up the process or slow it down.

    Welcome to zen and the art of jury watching.

    Lawyers and judges are uncomfortable when juries do this because they lose control.

  80. Two sides to a story says:

    Crane – political cartoon in moderation above because it has more than one link. On topic for Dunn trial.

  81. Michael Dunn’s Neighbor Speaks to Davis Lawyer John Phillips

    • This neighbor actually got Dunn’s gun at one point, and hid it. Because Dunn had threatened to kill his wife.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Crying shame these wives never reported any of this criminal activity. It might have prevented Jordan’s death down the road.

        • Well, yes, it is. My understanding is, they were likely concerned, because they may have been undocumented, but also, I believe it is more common than not, for battered women not to report.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Holy smokes — this interview is dyn-o-mite, Crane.

        Details at length how his parents sacked hiim from their company and he screwed them on an unemployment compensation agreement … how he ran a rebate scam … how he abused two foreign national wives, and terrified one the women’s kids. .. Plus how he tried to feel the neighbor out about doing a hit on someone. And so much more.

        There’s also reference to a Fort Lauderdale sex club that Dunn dragged one of the wives to and apparently liked a lot.

        That, for me brings to mind a reference he made in a letter from jail to Rhonda about “the great time we had in Fort Lauderdale.” Hmmm …

        Given what this guy has to say, I’d bet weeping Rhonda was a mess on the stand because she’s afraid he’s going to get off .. not because she’s worried about him being convicted.

        Hang in on the video for the woman who says he married one the foreign nationals at the UPS store. The night after they got married allegedly to her to a wife-swapping club.

    • This description sounds exactly as Michael Dunn presented himself in the courtroom. I don’t understand why this man or someone else was not brought in to counter the “good guy” portrayed by the defense witnesses. Michael Dunn is an evil man.

    • Wow, Dunn should talk, all about some type of music, when he posted some naked photo of his wife on the internet, and visited, what was it, sex clubs, hookers and the like?

      • ay2z says:

        hmmm, he had rum and coke. Rum and ‘coke’. 100 bucks worth of booze at the wedding reception making 1/2 oz drinks not satisfying enough, who is to say there wasn’t ‘coke’ without the rum used by Dunn. That would be even better reason to avoid calling 911 that evening, that night, even the next morning.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      AHA — it was a transcript of this interview that i had read previously and was telling you about. spousal abuse allegations for TWO immigrant wives who he threatened with deportation. whadda guy!

  82. Two sides to a story says:

    I borrowed this from Yahtzee over at Black Butterfly – thanks Y!

  83. colin black says:

    Verdict today or early tomorrow. i m o.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      by now, they’ve done 8 hours of deliberation.

    • Trained Observer says:

      kinda sad that juror just now noticed so many pages being missing.

      • crazy1946 says:

        I wonder if the juror that the pages were missing from is the one that has all the questions…. Hmmmm….. I wish the pages that were sent back had not come from Strolla…. Just a gut feeling that all is not well in the jury room… hung jury is better than a non conviction, but still not good…

  84. blushedbrown says:

    If I was in the jury room and someone was trying to tell me that Jordan Davis was standing outside, the simple answer would be for me to say is three bullets went through the door and into his body. 3=3
    3 through the door, three through his body. Equal. No question he was in the car when the bullets went through the door through his body. Which nut bucket is actually questioning math? Ughhhhh

    • disappointed says:

      No way he could have been outside of the Durango. The second set of shots came to quick. Jordan would have not been able to get in car before they drove off. Police Officer found him in back seat not in the parking lot ran over from 2 fleeing cars. Am I making sense?

    • YQ says:

      And aside from, he would have dropped the imaginary shotgun!

    • neveragain says:

      Hey the bullet could have gone throght the door and through his body if he was standing….remember the vehicles were close and Jordan would have had to close the suv’s door to get to Dunn or get his body totally exposed..

      • blushedbrown says:


        Ok lets go with that scenario.

        Bullets hit Jordan, 3 med to large range bullets go through his body. His body does not slow the momentum of the bullets even though its going through soft tissue muscle and bone. Bullets decide to go at an angle through his body but not at an angle through the door. The doors are so close together that the impact of the bullets slam his body against the door to make the holes, but his blood from his body decide nope not leaving any blood evidence on the door jumps into a moving car that is backing up but still gets no blood on the ground and dies in the car.

        Sound plausible?

        • disappointed says:

          Still could not happen. Jordan would have climbed out and been standing with left side exposed. He had bullet holes on right side. jmo The vehicles were to close together so he could not just jump out. It would have been a foot at a time as to not damage Dunn’s perfect little VW. And speaking of which what enraged thug is careful not to smash the door into the other car?

          • blushedbrown says:


            Exactly, that’s why i posted that scenario. Not possible he was outside that SUV when he was shot three times.

          • disappointed says:

            Blushedbrown Sorry I meant to reply to neveragain.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @ disappointed

            🙂 No problem. 🙂

          • blushedbrown says:


            wrote>>It would have been a foot at a time as to not damage Dunn’s perfect little VW. And speaking of which what enraged thug is careful not to smash the door into the other car?

            Good point.

        • bettykath says:

          I think Dunn said that Jordan was out of his vehicle when he went for his gun which is why he was so scared (white men scare easily). Jordan could have gotten back in the car by the time Dunn came up with the gun.

      • Lynn says:

        Sorry @neveragain. Simply fact is that Jordan would have had to be facing directly into the SUV with his back facing Dunn in order for the bullets to enter his left side. And what angle would he have been standing in in order for the bullets to go straight through the door and then upward from his left waist to his right armpit?
        Nope. Not plausible.

  85. Trained Observer says:

    M-I-C —- K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E.
    Have served on two juries — one M1, and the other civil and the dry erase board plus a board with paper sheets were there from the get-go.

    • Two sides to a story says:


    • Liza says:

      How long did it take to reach a verdict in the M1?

      • Trained Observer says:

        1.5 days. Half a day to decide, then sleep on it, then to render the verdict shortly after lunch on the second day.

        White defendant was 17 when he pulled a gun hidden in his school locker and walked across the street to a Sizzler restaurant to fire away at three unarmed black members from a rival gang. Killed one with a bullet to the forehead, winged one. (Both gangs, btw, were racially integrated, so it would be iffy to suggest this was a white on black thing.)

        Jury of 11 women, 1 man. The Vietnam vet guy wanted to let him go. We convicted on manslaughter, since we didn’t want to see him fry and it was never made clear whether death penalty was part of the conviction. The shooter got 25 years. He served about 20 years of that. (We jurors didn’t know it, but it turns out he previously had shot his step-father and gotten by with it.)

  86. Rachael says:

    My heart stops every time they do that LOL

  87. Easel, and missing instructions going back.

  88. Fred has returned!

    And wow, this jury. It’s like, we’re gonna figure this one out!

    2 questions:

    one, a request for large paper or, a dry easel.

    two: one set of instructions is incomplete.

  89. Two sides to a story says:

    I can’t believe they didn’t already supply the jury with a dry easel or large pad of paper!

  90. crazy1946 says:

    With all the back and forth about the dummy (bendi not Strolla) did my ears actually hear the defense dummy say, whoops a stick fell out? That would have been enough to prevent bendi from going back to the jury room (altered evidence…)! Good move from the main dummy to prevent the (maybe) evidence from being given to the jury….

  91. colin black says:

    Why can they not get techs reveiw the vt were bendy was demoed.
    An produce still photos on a printer of all angles its was shown.

    With the dowells ect.

    An then give the jurours the still photos to veiw?

    • YQ says:

      Good point. I’m thinking that if you’re going to convict on M1, you should have photos of the theory about what happened entered into evidence.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Perhaps can’t use photos for exactly the same reason: Bendy is a demo, not the real body, so any representation cannot be exact.

  92. YQ says:

    What’s interesting from looking at the foam dummy is that the red stick represents the fatal shot, but the green stick seems like it could even support the theory that Dunn stuck his gun inside of the window of the SUV. The downward trajectory of that angle makes no sense to me unless Davis was crouched Was there any explanation on what angle that particular round pierced the door?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The police forensic photos of the SUV with trajectory dowels in it would show that angle you’re talking about.

      Do you have the link to photo of dummy or what trial day video the dummy is in?

  93. disappointed says:

    So did anyone catch why defense changed their mind? They said yes send it back but then said no. Did they really it showed shots to the side and back not the front?

  94. Boyd says:

    with all the evidence , how is it possible for the Jury to ask for what’s not in evidence? I don’t get that. I missed that a part of the trial I assume Dummy is Jordan Davis demo of where the bullets entered his body.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Jury didn’t know it wasn’t part of evidence, and Bindy was quite memorable, so it was noticeable when he/she didn’t show up amid the stacks of stuff. .

  95. neveragain says:

    I did not follow the entire trial….so I have a question….was their a profesional witness who disputed what the medical doctor said concerning Jordans body pisition when he got shot???….did he state that the first shot hit the door when the door was open??

  96. It was not offered into evidence, therefore it cannot be sent back.

  97. Boyd says:

    does anyone have a picture of the damm dowels. I had it once before

  98. Brandy says:

    Hmmm, on HLN Strolla said Dunn has no problem with Bendi going back, something must of changed then

  99. Regarding the dummy with the sticks. We cannot send that back to you, as it was a demonstrative exhibit, that is, an exhibit for demonstration purposes.

    Judge Healey going to explain why Bendi cannot go to deliberations.

  100. YQ says:

    Hope they took good notes, the dummy is not going back… smh

  101. Two sides to a story says:

    Strolla and Dunn showing their desperation with this move.

  102. Looks like maybe Dunn is objecting, so Bendi will not be going into the jury deliberation room. I think.

  103. Brandy says:

    They want to see the dummy… Jurors told that DUNN cant go back to jury room. LOL

  104. Healey referred to this case:

    State v. White, 470 So. 2d 1377 (Fla. 1985)

  105. Trained Observer says:

    Judge says he can have bailiff escort Bendi in, if he/she needs help.

    Dunn back in the courtroom in his sweater mode.

  106. Two sides to a story says:

    So, Bendi’s in.

  107. Judge Healey has found three cases. All say, that if both sides agree, it’s okay. If not, it is harmless error, and two of the cases were death penalty cases.

    Question is, will Srolla object? If so, the dummy won’t go into the deliberation room.

    Doll’s name is Bendi.

  108. Two sides to a story says:

    Back. Judge looking at 3 cases.

  109. Brandy says:

    They are reporting that the jury wants to brings the dummies and the dows that shows direction of bullets into jury room. WTH!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Obviously someone believes Dunn’s crap about Jordan leaving the vehicle.

      • Boyd says:

        and maybe someone that knows Dunn full of shit wants to throw it in that assholes face. They were straight shots

      • YQ says:

        Which could mean that they also believe that Davis miraculously didn’t fall out of the vehicle when the SUV reversed full speed and jetted out. And also the door hinge detant was strong enough to hold the door close enough to NOT scratch the black Jetta. That’s too much to consider when you add the fact that the driver of the SUV may have not been bothering to look behind him with his head down ducking those bullets.

    • Boyd says:

      Maybe they are regarding Dunn’s statement the car door was open, therefore the angle of the bullet would different maybe. I recall they were straight (180 degrees)

  110. colin black says:


    They haveing a look see at strolla the fat controllas presser?

    To see if he said or could cause an apeal when his clients found guilty?

    He is the defence not the staye are they going to say his pressser was grounds for inadiquit councel?

    After all you work with the tools given an Strolla was given an inadiquit client with an inadiquit theory of defence.

    I killed him because of rap crap.

    Strolla ever heard of this


  111. disappointed says:

    I would rather them take their time. At least that way they are discussing and reviewing evidence. Not just rushing back to say not guilty or guilty. They are weighing the evidence. The trial took days we should not really expect a verdict in a few hours. jmo We may think he is guilty but I imagine 12 people have different opinions.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Fogen review should have taken much, much longer. I wouldn’t expect this one to take as long because the evidence is much clearer.

    • Patdeadder says:

      I’m getting worried but don’t they have to consider the shots as the vehicle is leaving.

  112. Thanks you guys. I am back from a jog, but Fred has not returned yet.

    Looks like there is a recess, while the court looks for case law on demonstrative evidence.

    Re: jury wanting the dummy w/the sticks.

    Let me guess. Strolla objected? I missed it.

  113. Tee says:

    More questions from the jury, someone in that jury room is making this difficult. This shit ain’t rocket science, and this is why I don’t trust Fl, justice system. I am not saying that they shouldn’t look at all the evidence but as I said before its not rocket science.

  114. Trained Observer says:

    What’s at stake here is demonstrative material not entered into evidence.

  115. I can’t believe that these people are still deliberating. They should have had a guilty verdict last night.

  116. neveragain says:

    This is not a good sign……the brother and sister said that nothing was thrown from the SUV….Rhonda proved that Dunn is a liar….they still have questions???…

    • YQ says:

      I hope that the jury will get this one right. Florida has a history, such is the reason why I moved out of there.

    • ay2z says:

      not only a liar, but this goes to his deception and rewriting of his actions after the shooting, his intent to NOT call police as proven by his lies and Rhonda’s testimony backed up by phone records and her ability to hear the whole thing.

      Only when in a jam, did Dunn play out his ‘I called a law inforcement officer’ story. Rhonda was reluctant, and had every reason to want to help Dunn, but she did not, including obvious knowledge that she too, could be easily impeached had the state called the ‘neighbor federal agriculture officer’ to the stand.

      Rhonda is so better off, she should take advantage and clear away from this guy.

  117. ay2z says:

    Good morning! Thanks, Crane, for the ‘watch’ link. (turned down the Stolla camera op)

    May I offer some waiting, hip hop, jazzy, funky fusion Flip Fantasia (Cantaloop) for easy listening while the watch is on. Listen, watch, or both, and enjoy. Fred today, all the best with the sinuses, please take care! Enjoy your jog, Crane.

    Putting on my best ‘white thug hat’ and invite anyone to pump their woofers to whatever they please. (found this tune by re-watching The Renaissance Man movie)

    Biddy Biddy Bop

  118. Two sides to a story says:

    I’m thinking there’s a not guilty hold-out on the jury who is adhering to Strolla’s version of forensics.

  119. Trained Observer says:

    Neither State nor defense objects, but Healey wants to protect against appeal … wants to research it, He’s off to look for his law clerk.

  120. Two sides to a story says:

    Wha? What was this about looking up a rule that might affect a fundamental reversal of the case? Anyone hear that better than me?

  121. Trained Observer says:

    Healey says State now looking for case law.

  122. Trained Observer says:

    Question: “Can we get that dummy with the sticks?”

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Wow. They are questioning the door theory.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      At least one person is questioning the “how did the bullet get in inner thigh” posed by Strolla.

      Trying to determine if there is any way he stepped out of the vehicle.

      Possibly dismissing ME’s testimony.

  123. Two sides to a story says:

    Judge in, jury have a question.

  124. Two sides to a story says:

    Hmm, two of the livestreams just shifted from an outdoor pic of the courthouse to an inside (empty) scene of the courtroom – does that mean anything?

  125. neveragain says:

    Rhonda does not understand self defence ??everybody understands self defence….Rhonda KNOWS IT WAS NOT SELF DEFENCE……

  126. YQ says:

    Not all thugs listen to thug music. There are many rap radio stations that play that music. Yes, it is a shame but it goes to say that people shouldn’t be so judgemental by what something/someone appears to be. I go to a college where students are earning 3.5 GPAs and all they do is smoke and listen to Rick Ross and Lil Wayne. Even if they were thugs, none of them would be stupid enough to show someone they didn’t know that they had a gun and never use it, even in the event of a shootout occurring. Only Dunn (who himself admitted that he showed the kids his gun) would be that dumb, which is also a tell that he absolutely knew that those kids had no weapons or he would not have brandished in the heat of that moment-risking his own life in the process. We all see how much Dunn values his life. He fled the scene in “sheer terror” (not from the “thugs” but from the police) and went 2 hours back to the hotel, ate pizza and got drunk. THE IRONY IS THAT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT A THUG WOULD DO: LEAVE THE SCENE OF THE CRIME AND GO HIDE OUT WITH A FEMALE, PARTY FOOD AND DRINKS AT A MOTEL.

    • Lynn says:

      The 2 hr drive was to his home the next morning. When he left the gas station he drove 2.6 miles down the road and made a right to the Sheraton and ordered pizza. Not trying to be picky but I know Nancy Grace also has been saying he drove 2 hrs away that same night. Sadly it was just around the corner from the gas station, it only had parking in the front, and the police were told to do a 5 mile search for his car and concentrate on hotels. Sad.

  127. Trained Observer says:

    Dunn admits to having made a habit of “asking” players of loud music to turn it down on Satellite Beach. This has likely been standard operating procedure for him whenever he wants to feel like a Big Man on Campus, what with his sense of entitlement and all. . In Jacksonville, he picked the wrong playground since that’s where Angela Corey is queen of the hop, known for charging to the max. That’s not to suggest any prosecutor in the state wouldn’t have hauled him in for a murder charge.

    • Rachael says:

      Now see, what I don’t get is, it isn’t like he was stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic with these kids for an hour where he couldn’t get away – he was stopped for a few minutes at a convenience market. What difference does it make if the music is loud? He’s going to be leaving in a minute. Why even bother to tell them to turn it down? Get your stuff and go. Pretty simple. I can understand that it might be so loud it would hurt – I have very sensitive ears – but just get your stuff and go. Dang. What is so hard about that?

      • bettykath says:

        It wasn’t the music as much as a kid talking back to him, not deferring to his white privilege.

      • Malisha says:

        “I hate that thug music … so why don’t you wait here and I’ll run in and buy the wine…”

        “I hate that thug music … so I’ll pull over there farther away and when you come out, look for my car over there”

        “I hate that thug music … so don’t be long, OK, love of my life?”

      • Patdeadder says:

        Rachael if his level of Tolerence is so low he should have moved the car.I think he planned to do something the minute he said I hate that thug music.
        My Mother and I used to go and see Bill Cosby and he did a whole act about parents telling their kids to turn that crap down.

  128. Lynn says:

    “I’m really not prejudiced against race, but I have no use for certain cultures. This gangster-rap, ghetto talking thug “culture” that certain segments of society flock to is intolerable. They espouse violence and disrespect women. The black community here in Jacksonville is in an uproar against me-the 3 other thugs that were in the car are telling stories to cover up their true “colors”.”…Michael Dunn to Grandma

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Duh-done, your true colors have shone through every interview, every bit of writing exposed! While I appreciate that all people have good qualities as well as negative, it is your negativity that has brought you to this point in life . . .

    • Lynn says:

      “My case was assigned to another judge (the 4th), this time a man. Hopefully, now that we have a judge with balls (haha), I can get a bond. :)” …Michael Dunn

      Racist and sexist maybe?

    • ladystclaire says:

      And grandma no doubt believes every word out of his mouth and on paper as well. this is where a lot of these racist learn their behavior. from generation to generation, it’s passed down. it’s a shame that in the year 2014 and, we still have these kind of people in this country. smdh

    • Patdeadder says:

      Dunn says the black community is against him.No shit Sherlock you murdered a kid.I’m an old white grandma and I too frown upon murderers.Silly us.

  129. bettykath says:

    He was great; Dunn is doing well; Rhonda was in a much worse state the night it happened than when she was on the stand; police didn’t do their job properly; Corey overcharged; Corey withheld the many, many phone calls and letters.

    Of course, Dunn didn’t tell them his side so they police could search for the weapon at the time; why didn’t Strolla introduce all the great letters and phone calls?

    • Lynn says:

      One of those letters mentions that the many statements from Jordan coupled with the seeing the gun made him react and shoot. I thought in court they were saying that it wasn’t until Jordan opened the door that he decided to get his gun and shoot.
      Someone’s pants are on fire.

  130. J4TMinATL says:

    Way to stay classy Strolla.


  131. colin black says:

    This wonderfull life style on the Beach blah blah everything to lose .
    Nothing to gain blah blah wouldnt risk throwing It all away.

    Comes from the mouth of an ingrate compulsive liar.

    He keeps refering to wakeing nightmare .

    How do we know apart from his say so his life was a bed of roses.

    He could be in massive debt home in fore clousure all sorts of problems we no nothing about.

    This wakeing nightmare he constantly mentions could be his everyday existance sans the MURDER.


    aS WE should to his numerous statement that he was returning home to contact L E neighbour of his .

    Yiu no the one with the badge an everything whom looked after agriculture.

    He thought this was the best department of L E to inform as he had a corny story to tell.

    • Dunn let it slip during his interview with the police that he “had enough problems.” When they tried to to pursue that statement, he insisted he had a wonderful life.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Yes … he quickly wanted to recast himself as a winner, not a loser who might have taken his wrath out on the victim.

    • Malisha says:

      Remember after Fogen killed Trayvon Martin and right up until AFTER the verdict, we kept hearing about how wonderful Fogen’s marriage was and how his woman stood by him and how she never saw him angry and how this and that and blah blah. “My wife’s a mess.” Blah blah blah. “My wife…” “My wife…” And then we find out that he went out enraged that night because his wife had dumped him and gone home to Daddy earlier that very evening, and as soon as she was able, she shed the veneer of lovey-dovey blah blah and took on the appearance of a battered wife instead.

      Now we hear that FoDung was close to his family, traveled to his previous son’s wedding with the love of his life, was peaceful and happy and had no reason to go on a crazed shooting spree, right? Family members including from the wedding saying nicey nicey nicey stuff about dear old dad?

      How do we know they are not just as racist as FoDung? They may be mad at him, hate him, keep away from him, having been abused by him, any old thing, but could still be just as racist as he is and not want him convicted by a jury of non-racists just for having eliminated some Black thug! We don’t know the character of his “character witnesses” do we?

      In my opinion, we’re seeing the same phenomenon here as with Fogen. Big self-important and self-deluding white pussy gets dissed and has to take it out on someone. Does not like to kick puppies, so kills Black teenager instead.

      Strolla’s offensively cocky. A swift kick in his famous scrotum would be in order, but none of those journalists has the right stuff to deliver it.

    • Patdeadder says:

      Oh Colin you are too funny.Corny story to tell

  132. Louie says:


  133. Trained Observer says:

    Talk about concluding on a low note. Leaving prospect of a Dunn rape in the air. Guess he’s hoping that gets back to juroros some way, some how.

  134. Rachael says:

    Been working again and just saw a glimpse of this. What the heck WAS it? I thought at first it was a press conference after a verdict but I see that’s not the case. What is up with this?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Rachael, I think Lynn nailed it when she said he was taking his star turn now, because after the verdict is marketability will plummet. Who wants to hear what the loser has to day … especially if he must shair air time with the winning team?

      With the Olympics, aftermath of yesterday’s Juan Chavez execution in Starke Florida, untoward weather conditions, and Valentine’s weekend frivolity, he knows that after a highly probably conviction for Dunn the focus will only be on Dunn getting fingerprinted and hauled off in anticipation of transfer to a state facility.

      His moment to shine was now.

  135. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla: Claims somebody threatened to “rape Mr. Dunn” when he gets ahold of him ….. quick to add after he gets out.

    • Patdeadder says:

      Strolls says someone theatened to rape dunn.I think that was just dunn’s wishful thinking.
      Please God let this be the correct verdict.I bet the love of his life is hoping for life behind bars for her beloved as well.

  136. Lynn says:

    Yay! They’re quoting letters now and Strolla blames it on the fear of jail rape. lol

  137. I think these reporters are not asking very good questions, nor are they following up on some of Stolla’s answer (such as his accusation that the police did not do their job). So many “feelings” questions.

  138. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla: Denies deal between the State and Rhonda not to charge her. But sez she was nervous because she was under subpoena.

  139. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla: Sez Dunn has become quite friendly with some of his young cell neighbors …. despite letter reference to Thugville.

  140. Lynn says:

    He’s getting his air time in now because after the verdict he won’t be so marketable. Why is the media giving him this? I just want one of them to quote some of the jail letters. This isn’t court so let’s go for the jugular. They are letting him spew this crap about not being racist. Have they read the letters? If not, shame on them for not doing some investigative journalism. Let’s do a presser with Grandma!

  141. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla: Ode to Jordan in an effort to paper over callous ordering of pizza and heading on home.

  142. If there was no civil settlement on Dunn’s part, who was it with?

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Smoke and mirrors. Settlement was reached between the plaintiffs and Dunn.

      Just because Dunn wanted his attorneys to wait until after the verdict has no bearing on the fact that the plaintiffs accepted a settlement in the suit.

    • Malisha says:

      Could be Dunn’s insurance carrier.

  143. J4TMinATL says:

    This heifer is hilarious.

  144. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla: Denies there ever was a civil settlement.

  145. blushedbrown says:

    I think that’s wrong what he is staying, that only applies if a SYG hearing was done. right?

  146. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla: If detectives had done their jobs properly, this case would never have come forward.

  147. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla denies plea offer was every made. “Never” he says.

  148. colin black says:

    He is not Raceist he had a Mexican Wife he treated tenderly.
    He had to as she was often covered in bruises.

  149. Trained Observer says:

    Strolla: (with an r) may have said things in letters he regrets but it was because he’d never been locked in a jail cell before.

  150. Trained Observer says:

    Bunch of chat about Stand Your Ground, and why defense didn’t go that route.

  151. GMAFB, ‘thug’ music does not somehow justify shooting somebody in the back, Strolla, you freak show.

  152. Trained Observer says:

    Stolla says Dunn’s parents want to get their thoughts out. But not at this time.

  153. Strolla, giving an interview, First Coast News, while the jury deliberates.

  154. Trained Observer says:

    Stolla admits he had to do some damage control when he came in .. but went for the truth from Day One.

  155. J4TMinATL says:

    J4TMinATL on February 12, 2014 at 9:00 pm
    Another thing regarding the video, in Strolla’s closing arguments:

    “We had state witnesses change their story from direct, to cross, to re direct.” Strolla tells them to watch the entire surveillance video from the night of the shooting.

  156. colin black says:

    Only logic for a pre verdict presser from defence.

    Is they are anticipateing a guilty verdict an are getting it out the way.

    So he doesnt have to show his face in defeat.

  157. Trained Observer says:

    Stolla claims the jury is “listening to me” because he pointed out the disrepancy in tapes.

  158. Trained Observer says:

    Stolla describes Dunn as very close knit with his family. Sure.

    • lurker says:

      Including the son he has only seen 3x growing up?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      One of his daughters has a FB and she seems to be close to him, calls him daddy, wants daddy to come home. It’s heartrending how many lives are poisoned by this type of unnecessary violence. The great American 2nd amendment at work. : /

  159. colin black says:

    I would love to hear someone say right now.

    Verdicts In an everyone to rush out an leave him standing there.

  160. Trained Observer says:

    Here we go: More blame it on Rhonda …. she’s such a mess, how could she rermember if he talked to her about the gun or anything.

  161. J4TMinATL says:

    Cocky SOB.

  162. colin black says:

    I dont know
    he just said we dont have a jury yet?

    Think he means verdict.

  163. bettykath says:

    waiting on Strolla press interview.

  164. Okay, now this appears to be a news interview?

  165. Has the jury taken a lunch break then? Not sure…

  166. Also, folks, Fred is on his way to see a doctor, for what appears to be a persistent sinus infection.

    I will be here, although I may get out for a jog.

    Given that we ask for help- please continue to post updates.

    Much appreciated!

  167. Malisha says:

    It is my fervent hope that soon, Fodungen will be able to have a new “love of his life.”

    Sorry, chicky-doo, you must content yourself with Charlie the puppy, not the other sick puppy you hung out with before.

  168. While we are on verdict watch, I have to say, that courthouse is absolutely stunning. First Coast News has been flashing photos. Looks like a federal courthouse.

  169. colin black says:

    So according to dunn all this happened because the love of his life wanted a bottle of wine.
    He fled because the love of his life was In danger.

    He high tailed it home because the love of his life was confused an doesn’t understand self defence.

    So friday being Valentines day would be the perfect day for a guilty verdict..

  170. Boyd says:

    They should not be in there long. Don;t over complicate this. Prosecution has already proved Dunn to be a outrageous liar when he said he called police multiple times on the stand, no one should believe his story.

  171. Two sides to a story says:

    And here are the interviews with that neighbor, not admissable in court, of course. : /

    • Boyd says:

      Thanks. I heard rumors about people were afraid of his family.
      I looked into his business last year and followed some complaints, I used to develop systems for Casino’s gaming machines interface to the backend as well as manufacturing plants So I understood the terminology of his company’s business and I would not have hired this bullbleep clown.

    • Malisha says:

      After they put a flyer-guy on the stand to talk about his “peaceful” nature, why couldn’t the rebuttal be able to put on a neighbor who rebutted that? I think the defense opened that door, didn’t they?

      • Boyd says:

        just like in the zimmerman trial

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Exactly. I don’t understand it – the door was opened, why not use the opportunity?

        • Trained Observer says:

          That’s a mystery to be sure. Especially the neighbor who claims Dunn asked him about doing a hit on someone who had filed a lawsuit against Dunn/ or his business enterprise. Consesus among neighbors seems to be he was an arrogant braggart at best, and we all know his worst ….

  172. Two sides to a story says:

  173. colin black says:

    We at least know where foggage Is living .

    Hullo mmm I have a neighbour I just phoned him an asked If he and the love of his life wanted to go out for a meal..

    He declined I don’t know what his deal Is could you send a S W A T team to his address stat!

  174. Tee says:

    This may be off topic but I just dont understand how these high school boys with no criminal pass and no violent history decides to in an instant become killers. I hate this about America it’s like some people don’t even raise the question, Why. common sense should tell you that both Dunn & zimmerman are liars. I am pissed beacuse I knew thugs, I knew killers I lived in Liberty City, Fl as a child, known as the pork n beans. Trust when I say that teens that are thugs don’t go to school. they are on the corner selling drugs or being a watch out for the ones that are selling drugs. I was beyond happy when my father moved me in with him. I know just how both worlds live and in upper middle class kids , if their address and skin color was different a lot of them the girls and boys would be considered thugs. They smoke more weed than I have ever seen kids smoke in my life, they drink, drag race and cause so much trouble. Two of my daughters classmates have been in rehab already. So when black boys become super human thugs it drives me insane.

    • Boyd says:

      It’s the opposite of alfuenza,

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It drives me insane too. : /

      Of course, we know these killers also know all of the above, but they can create doubt in the courtroom and stir up donations from the crazies with THEIR rapcrap

    • colin black says:

      Justin Beiber ticks all the boxes for a thug then.

    • disappointed says:

      Tee I would like to believe that Zimmerman and Dunn know they did not kill thugs. The kids became thugs to excuse poor choices of their own. A lot of the people on “their side” are more worried about gun rights than they are about these idiots with the gun. Constantly spouting their Constitutional Rights. IMO some need to read the Constitution. I believe our Fore Fathers wrote gun rights for hunting and protecting ones self in their home. Idiots have just spun it now to read the way they want it too. Maybe I’m just an old fool.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        No, you are a person of conscience and common sense.

      • Malisha says:

        Neither Fogen nor Fodungen would have ever opened their mouth to a real thug, of any color. They are both cowards who say they killed “thugs” so they can enhance the imaginary manhood they share with their fans like Taaffe of the short-term vision. Not one of these pinkfrilled sissies would ever sniff wrong in the presence of a true thug, believe me.

      • towerflower says:

        disappointed…….you need to look back into history, specifically
        April 19, 1776 and the battle for Concord and Lexington–the beginning of the Revolutionary War. The British were marching into Concord to remove the guns/powder/balls, etc from the general population.

        It was one of the earliest attempts at gun control. The government knew the colonists were upset over all the taxing being done to them, well in excess of a normal British citizen. The colonists prepared themselves and confronted the British. In the end the Colonists were able to force the British back to Boston and the rest is history. Our forefathers added the 2nd amendment so that the citizens could once again protect themselves from an out of control government.

    • George Zimmerman was found not guilty because of the attitude you described, Tee. The jurors did not accept that Trayvon Martin was just a teenage boy who died terrified of a man who was stalking him in the rain and early darkness and who eventually killed him.

    • MDH says:

      Bravo, you just nailed it out of the park.

      And why does thug only apply to black teens. When I lived in Detroit, the teen thugs I knew were white. By the age of 15, one we were trying to get on the straight and narrow had already:

      committed many assaults

      did an arson on a business


      We had to talk him out of beating up the business owner who only paid him a part of money he promised for the arson.

      And you are correct about the suburban double standard.

      I have a falling out with a white suburban friend because he kept calling Malice Green a thug who deserved to be beaten to death.

      This paragon of suburban virtue:

      was a habitual weed smoker

      stole materials off of abandoned homes in Detroit to use for his construction jobs

      cheated on his college projects

      As a side note, he used to score weed in that Warren trailer park that was in the film 8 Mile.

      My hood in Detroit was a lucrative turf during the crack wars of 1980s and 1990s. During that time, there was a constant stream of suburban kids going into the house next store and coming out with a small brown paper bag. It got so bad, that we had to put an old hooptie at the end of our drive so that they would not park on it. We were worried that the stupid DEA, when the hammer eventually came down, would think we were involved in that shit

      What people in suburban bubbles don’t understand is that there are large numbers of young teens who are honest and just happen to have been born into hard streets. Survival is tough because you can run a foul of either real thugs or cops.

      So Trayvon’s mother sent him to a “safer’ place, only to have that pig shoot him.

      That makes me want to cry.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Apparently the Dunnsters of the world believe if one messes up in school, misbehaves in school, has divorced parents, wears baggy clothing, cusses, etc etc it makes you a thug.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Reminds me of growing up in 50s – 60s midwest – hoods, as they called thugs in those days, were mostly white kids, not black.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I’m from the midwest, and the term “thug” used apply to … well, thugs. No racial overtones whatsoever, but the assumption was white. Since then thug seems to have become the new politically correct N-word among white racists and the just stupidly misguided. Trayvon was’t a thug. Jordan wasn’t a thug, and neither are his three friends.

        Dunn will find out all about thugs when he gets to the state slammer. They come in all colors and sizes.

    • dee truth says:

      Way back in the day, I attended a small PREDOMINATELY WHITE college in the Midwest. There was an ample supply of affluent white students in attendance. I’ve never seen so many drugs, so much alcohol, and so much sexual activity. The handful of Black students were just trying to “keep our heads down”.

    • Sophia33 says:

      That you comment is is great commentary on how racism warps one’s mind. For example, how is it that Fogen had an arrest record for violence, including violence against an officer of the law and domestic violence, mandated alcohol counseling and taken MMA fighting, yet the person who he stalked was somehow branded a thug. Trayvon Martin had never been arrested, had never been mandated to alcohol counseling, never attacked a police officer, never taken MMA style fighting. It is the most irrational and bizarre thing ever. But that is America.

  175. Dave says:

    Does anyone know what the penalties are for attempted M1, attemptedM2 and attemptedManslaughter?

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Florida Statute 775.087 (FL’s 10-20-Life law) adds minimum mandatory sentence of 20 years for each count and the statute states these are to run consecutively for a total of 60 years.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        If a gun is used in the commission of an attempted 2nd degree murder, the charge becomes a first-degree felony, punishable by a maximum of 30 years with a 20-year mandatory minimum sentence under 10-20-Life (if the gun is discharged).

      • Dave says:

        Many thanks for the reference:

        I read it a bit differently though. While the 20 year firearm “enhancement” is to run consecutively with the primary felony sentence, the statute doesn’t appear to bar multiple firearm “enhancements” from running concurrently. I’m still trying to find the statutory penalties for the various degrees of attempted homicide.

        • J4TMinATL says:


        • J4TMinATL says:

          The attempted charges get reclassified for sentencing purposes.

          Attempted murder 2 becomes 1st degree felony.

          I’m not sure what your question is about the firearm enhancement. 60 years max if convicted of attempted murder 1 or attempted murder 2.

          Sorry Dave can you clarify.

          Attempted manslaughter is the one I’m unsure of.

          • Dave says:

            Sorry J4TMinATL. My head hurts from trying to sort this out. I’ll come back after lunch.

          • Dave says:

            Bottom line:

            Even if the jury can’t agree to a verdict on homicide (“reasonable doubt”). I can’t see how any rational, fairminded person could fail to convict Dunn for attempted murder after he fired half a dozen rounds into a car full of people driving away from him. One way or another Dunn will be spending a long, long time as a guest of the State of Florida.

  176. J4TMinATL says:

    Free Jordan Davis wristbands. Stop by John Phillips office or send SASE to 4230 Ortega Blvd., Jacksonville, FL 32210.

  177. Folks, I think that yesterday, there may have been consensus among a few, that Twitter is a good source for verdict watch.
    @FCN2go is First Coast News.

    If you have links, sources, please post them.

  178. FCN2go ‏@FCN2go 13m
    Healey explaining to alternate jurors he may release 1 -2 today. Court in recess until we hear from #dunntrial jurors. #michaeldunn

  179. neveragain says:

    Ok regarding the jury’s request for the videos…I was not aware that there were discrepancies……

  180. crazy1946 says:

    Professor, Question, does not Florida still have the law on the books where any time a gun is used in the commission of a felony a minimum sentence of twenty years is required? Some one yesterday listed the penalties for the various charges and indicated a sentence of less time could be imposed?

    • A mandatory-minimum sentencing enhancement cannot exceed the statutory maximum.

      If a mandatory-minimum exceeds the maximum sentence, the court must impose the maximum penalty.

      The sentence, if any, will depend on what crimes he is convicted of committing.

      There’s a busload of possibilities.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Professor, how does that line up with the conviction (since overturned) of “Marissa Alexander” and the law that the judge used to sentence her to twenty years? I must be missing something here? Does aggravated assault carry a longer sentence than manslaughter? Sorry, but this case, combined with the kangaroo court case also know as the Zimmerman case, has left me in a total state of confusion of what Florida justice consists of… It would seem they have both written laws that apply to white people and unwritten laws that only apply to people who are members of the minority community…

    • Florida[edit]


      Offense Mandatory sentencing

      Manslaughter Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used

      Aggravated manslaughter of a child Maximum of 30 years in prison; maximum could be enhanced to life in prison if a firearm is used

      Third degree murder Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

      Second degree murder Maximum of life in prison; Minimum of 25 years if a firearm is used, otherwise a minimum of 10 years under sentencing guidelines for a person with a clean record.

      First degree murder Death penalty or life without parole

    • Tee says:

      I think you are talking about 10, 20, life that florida have. 10 years if you brandish, 20 if you discharge, life if the person dies all while in the commission on a crime.

  181. He’s keeping the alternates around, probably until this afternoon, and may release three of them, if the jury is still deliberating.

  182. Back on the record.

    The jury wants a large external monitor so they can all see the photos and videos.

    So it shall be written.
    So it shall be done.

    • Trained Observer says:

      I can just envision 12 people all crowding around a laptop. How shortsighted. If techie stuff is put into evidence for jury review, someone shoul have anticipated and provided a large wall-style screen from the get go. Hmmmmpph! 🙂

  183. Court will be in recess until they get another question or a verdict.

    Meanwhile, the jury will continue to deliberate.

  184. The laptop will enable them to play the discs that are in evidence.

    The dvds contain photos and videos.

    They want the external speakers.

  185. Judge Healey addressing jurors. Telling them instructions are available, for DVDs, monitors, etc.

  186. Judge Healey saying that he wants to bring the jury in, say good morning, tell them to begin.

    Michael Dunn sworn in, and asked if he is satisfied. He says he is.

  187. Court is in session.

    Discussing instructions on how to use the laptop and whether they should be provided with external speakers.

  188. Rachael says:

    Never mind. I see something now. Just people walking around.

  189. Rachael says:

    I don’t see anything and I’m looking at your link and another. Did I miss it?

  190. Court is in session now, Judge Healey, lawyers talking about verdict forms.

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