Wednesday night review of the Dunn trial

Wednesday, February 12, 2014

Good afternoon:

Closing arguments concluded today with an exceptional 36 minute rebuttal argument by Assistant State’s Attorney John Guy.

Several memorable statements:

He didn’t shoot to save his life. He shot to save his pride.

The detectives didn’t sleep through the night, the defendant slept through the night.

The physical evidence is irrefutable and supported by the eyewitnesses.

Who has the ultimate interest in the outcome of this case? It’s the defendant and his story keeps changing.

Michael Dunn has an excuse for everything, but an explanation for nothing.

Your verdict won’t change the past, but it will forever define the past in this town.

To the living we owe respect. But to the dead, we owe the truth.

Judge Healey is finishing up his reading of the instructions to the jury.

Yesterday, he said he would permit the jury to deliberate this evening after dinner, if they are amenable, but will not let them deliberate after 8 or 9 pm.

What do y’all think about the case and what happened today?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Fred

229 Responses to Wednesday night review of the Dunn trial

  1. disappointed says:

    I’m done reading comments from the News. Good Lord. The comments are stupid. They act as if these parents wanted money over their son. Where was the outrage for the Nicole Simpson’s and Ronald Goldmen’s family? What about John Walsh he fell into a lot of money and fame because of his dead son. This old white lady is tired of the double standard.

    • The right-wing hate-machine accuses every minority person, who sues to recover damages for the wrongful death of their child, of seeking to profit from the death.

      Incredibly stupid, hateful and hypocritical accusation to make since they would not hesitate to sue for the wrongful death of their child, if their child died because of the misconduct of another person.

    • Malisha says:

      The idea is that Black people should accept their losses as well deserved, no matter what those losses are and no matter who caused them or how illegal the action was that caused them. This is of course a hold-over from Slavery: All gains to go the whites; all losses go to the Blacks. Old habits die hard or not at all.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Simple question from a simple mind, how could Done Dunn have a home owner insurance policy as a renter? Did he not state that he was renting the apt. (condo) that he and his GF were living in and was relieved that she had moved into an apartment that had a lower rent? I know this is a minor detail, but still curious. Is it not more realistic to guess that his parents once again bit the bullet and bailed this “wonderful” son out from yet another misadventure?

      • disappointed says:

        Malisha I totally agree with what you said. I just do not understand the reasoning of the people. I keep thinking what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Either way many families have settled law suits because of wrongful death and we should not dismiss the pain of one group because of the color of their skin. I’m happy for Jordan Davis’ family. They are doing great things in the way of scholarships for High School students. Not to mention asking for changes in the law. jmo

    • crazy1946 says:

      disappointed, It seems to me as if many people are still living in the days when a “price” was still fixed to the worth of a “black slave”… Too many people in this nation still think of black people as possessions to be forced to live in the shadow of the “great” white community to do the work they feel is beneath their dignity! Too bad these same people do not realize they are killing the very “home land” they profess to love so much by the way they treat their “fellow” citizens… This county is

  2. disappointed says:

    Oh and I read this morning at Jacksonville Newspaper that Dunn settled a law suit with Jordan Davis parents. I heard last night it was for hundreds of thousands of dollars but the newspaper did not give an amount. Interesting to pay for something you swear is self defense. jmo

    • Trained Observer says:

      Am curious on what assets he’d settle with … did he own property? His homeowner’s policy? His car insurance, His parents’ retirement kitty?

      • disappointed says:

        It did not say. I wondered too since the tax payers paid his legal fees. Apparently he also settled with two other teens in the car. Why pay if you are innocent? Something does not seem right. Guilt is a terrible thing. He should have admitted what he did and begged for mercy.

        • Our legal system does not work that way.

          My understanding is that his parents paid his legal fees in the criminal case. At one point last summer or fall, Strolla filed a motion asking the court to find Dunn indigent and eligible to have the costs of his case paid at public expense, excluding attorney’s fees. That motion was denied.

          I do not know if he asked for reconsideration at some point.

        • Malisha says:

          Ordinarily a homeowner has an insurance policy that has what is called a “liability rider” on it. That liability rider has a limit. For non-physicians usually the rider will be $300,000.00 per incident or such like. There is a clause that says if they are liable for some damage, if the homeowner’s policy does NOT offer the max to settle a lawsuit when it has the chance, then if a verdict comes in against the policy-owner for MORE than that max, they are going to be responsible for the entire amount, whereas if they OFFER the full amount and it is turned down, they will never have to pay more than that, even if a lawsuit ends up with 10 times as much.

          So the homeowners’ policies offer the max when they feel there is substantial risk. Then their lawyers don’t have much to do and they walk away from the thing and keep raking in their money elsewhere.

          I know about this because of a divorce case where the husband, a physician, threw the mother off a bridge to her (he thought) death but she lived. The homeowners’ policy was Met Life. They offered $300,000 and then the judge (otherwise thought to be quite a great judge) worked with the husband’s lawyer to undo the claim and get the case administratively dismissed. We reversed him and Met Life paid off in about seven seconds, begging for mercy as they did so.

          They had forged the name of a clerk on an order of dismissal and they had made a little mistake and used a name of a clerk who never worked at that court! IDIOTS! (By “they” I don’t know who “they” were: was it the husband’s lawyer? The real clerk? Met Life’s lawyer? Somebody’s secretary? Who knows?)

    • The case was settled more than a month ago.

      I suspect it contains a confidentiality clause and an express denial of liability by Dunn so that it could not be used in evidence against him at his criminal trial.

      Settlement agreements often contain terms of this nature.

      For example, language to the effect that Dunn agreed to pay a certain amount of money to settle the lawsuit and make it go away without admitting that he did anything wrong.

      The confidentiality clause is an agreement to refuse to disclose the amount of the settlement and the terms of the agreement.

      I am surmising that the agreement contains terms like these because I have not seen it.

  3. disappointed says:

    Good morning Fred and Crane. I just noticed you all needed donations so I sent you one. Sorry I am not the most observant reader. 🙂 I pretty much left camp after the Zimmerman trial/unjust verdict. I’m back hopefully this verdict does not make me stay away. It’s hard for me to understand how people let child killers go. So I just needed to get away and try to process what the hell happened.

  4. neveragain says:

    The jury wanting to see the surveillance videos is not a good sign….the videos were not helpful to the detectives…..y would they believe that the videos would be useful to them???…they have all the information that they need to make a decision on the verdict….I believe that those on the jury who couldn’t care less about the death of a black teen are the ones asking for useless information

    • neveragain says:

      the timing of he first shot will in no way prove that the incident happen in the manner that Dunn said it did

    • blushedbrown says:

      @neveragain

      I was thinking if I was a juror, why would I want the video?

      The first thought that came to me was, can I hear loud music through the stores?

      Could I hear any kind of argument or people in the store discussing the back and forth (arguing) between Jordan and Dunn?

      Did anybody say in the store they heard the back and forth?

      If I am a juror I want to be able to view, listen the video, without the attorneys, witnesses, and so on in the room. Just us jurors.

      JMO.

    • I disagree. It’s a sign that they are aware that prosecution and defense disagree on the timing of the shots and the length of time that the boys in the Durango were gone before they returned to the Gate.

      They want to resolve that disagreement.

      That’s what they should do.

  5. Two sides to a story says:

    I didn’t realize Mr. Dunn has a beg site too. Warning: lots of thug talk. Don’t see how he thinks this helps him – Treestump mentality fer sure.

    http://justicefordunn.com/

    • Sophia33 says:

      Disgusting!

      • JJ says:

        I noticed during the Trial that Dunn had the ultra-conservative hairdo with the part down the center. In the justicefordunn.com site you mentioned, Dunn’s hair did not have the center part. I think Dunn had the center part to broadcast to any conservatives on the jury that he (Dunn) is a ultra-conservative – as in “I’m a conservative like you – and conservatives do not get convicted when they shoot a black person [ you know the code].

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Looks like Rhonda probably reported the “I hate thug music” line right.

    • Liza says:

      Really a piece of crap website for an IT guy who owns a software company. Weird.

  6. The Allman Brothers – One Way Out 1971

  7. Tee says:

    The things I read about Dunn was telling, as to why he shot and killed Jordan that night. Wish that the jury could have known he had a violent pass, beating his wife in all.

  8. Tee says:

    So different from Zimmerman jury I they asked for evidence right off. I believe they want to get this right.

  9. This jury intends to buckle down and double-check all of the fine details.

    Very different reaction compared to Zimmerman jury.

  10. Michael Dunn Trial. Day 6. Part 5. Jury Instructions. Verdict Watch

  11. Michael Dunn Trial. Day 5. Part 5. Defense Rests. Rebuttal. Rhonda Rouer takes the stand

  12. Michael Dunn Trial. Day 6. Part 2. Prosecution Closing Arguments

  13. Michael Dunn Trial – Day 6 – Part 3 (Defense Closing Arguments)

  14. trisha0620 says:

    the audio from inside the store that night

    • J4TMinATL says:

      The 2 videos I’ve seen are 45 min + long. Dunn mentioned Tommie coming out of the store on the stand…what was his reaction in the few angles we are allowed to see or that are put out there?

  15. Good piece by Mark O’mara. Predicts guilt as a message on guns. His thesis is that when it’s close the heart take over.

    Friendly Disclaimer: I know it’s him, but you can learn a lot from the guy that beat ya.

    http://m.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-02-12/story/mark-omara-waiting-verdict

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It would be interesting if OM hadn’t been Fogen’s attorney – then to catch his analysis of that now . . . just sayin’.

  16. trisha0620 says:

    his GF had to have known something happened because she stand at the door and looks out with the door open,
    footage

  17. Not for nothing, but Mark O’mara wrote an op-ed predicting guilt as a message to be careful with guns. His thesis is interesting, When it’s this close, the heart takes over. http://m.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-02-12/story/mark-omara-waiting-verdict

  18. J4TMinATL says:

    Another thing regarding the video, in Strolla’s closing arguments:

    “We had state witnesses change their story from direct, to cross, to re direct.” Strolla tells them to watch the entire surveillance video from the night of the shooting.

    I’m re watching all the surveillance videos that I have. Let me know if you want links.

  19. trisha0620 says:

    its the timing of the shots, second, if there was anything important in all that footage the Defense would have entered it themselves and they failed to do so, which leads me to believe they didn’t want all the footage entered to begin with.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Wolfson had 1 min and 36 seconds.

      Killing after consciously deciding to do so Power Point:

      The decision must be present in the mind at the time of the killing.

      The law does NOT fix the exact period of time that must pass between the formation of the premeditated intent to kill and the killing.

      • Dave says:

        I can’t get over that. It took Dunn a minute and a half to get POed about the damn music, get into an argument over it, pull his gun out of the glove box, unholster the gun, chamber a round and shoot up a car full of unarmed teenagers.

        • Trained Observer says:

          It likely took him much, much longer to cobble together his self defense “I was in fear” story, since he didn’t mention the ominous “shotgun” to Rhonda on way to hotel or next day on way home..

  20. WJCT ‏@WJCTJax 6m
    The jury has recessed for the night in the Michael #DunnTrial with deliberations set to resume tom morning at 10 a.m. http://bit.ly/1cxAYvL

  21. J4TMinATL says:

    Another message from jury, “we have no results and we will resume in the morning”

  22. This seems to be a M1 or M2 ask. I’d ask to see that as well.

  23. trisha0620 says:

    Dunn can bank on it all he wants but he has a problem, he fires off 7 shots in less than 3 mins then stops and fires off 3 more, the first 7 are when his GF is in the store,

  24. trisha0620 says:

    this really isn’t good for Dunn lol

    • J4TMinATL says:

      He believes it will exonerate him. We haven’t seen what they will see. I’ve seen 2 camera angles, about 45 min long each.

      • trisha0620 says:

        well he can believe that all he wants, but he still has a problem, if there was anything in there they would have used it already

  25. bettykath says:

    Discussion on how they are to see it. Questions about jury’s ability to operate the player. Having a techie in the jury room rejected. Providing written instructions for them seems ok.

    Lordy, I hope they have enough ability to operate a dvd player when provided instructions, but let’s hope it’s not a programmer who writes the instructions!

  26. bettykath says:

    Jury wants to see everything, 10 min before and 10 after, all angles.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Dunn is banking on this video. What are the other angles and why didn’t we see them?

      Strolla thinks the sound is important suggested external speakers.

    • lurker says:

      HLN had the bit that was shown in court on a repeating loop. It shows Rhonda at the counter and we clearly hear 3 shots, pause, 4 shots, longer pause 3 shots. One commentator suggested that they are considering premeditation–and the spacing of the shots suggests decision-making opportunities.

      I was interested that the voices indicate that someone is shooting from a car, and by the 3rd group of shots, the clerk is ducking behind the counter. Maybe she has been trained to do so, or maybe it’s instinct. Rhonda, however, turns and looks and seems to be walking toward the shots. Struck me odd–unless she maybe halfway expected it. Maybe not the first time Dunn has shot at folks who couldn’t defend themselves? And then she continued OUT, where Dunn told her to get in and drove off.

      Didn’t she say she was afraid to say what was in her mind to ask, which was “what were you thinking?”

      One wild ride for Rhonda.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Sure is @lurker!

      • Trained Observer says:

        Plus she took the time to deliver reassurances to folks in the store …. Don’t worry, that’s Michael or such such silly-ass statement.

        We should all be plenty worried when we cross paths with bullies like Michael.

      • blushedbrown says:

        @lurker

        Lurker wrote….
        >> I was interested that the voices indicate that someone is shooting from a car, and by the 3rd group of shots, the clerk is ducking behind the counter. Maybe she has been trained to do so, or maybe it’s instinct. Rhonda, however, turns and looks and seems to be walking toward the shots. Struck me odd–unless she maybe halfway expected it. Maybe not the first time Dunn has shot at folks who couldn’t defend themselves? And then she continued OUT, where Dunn told her to get in and drove off.

        I too was interested, especially the clerk telling her, Rhonda at the counter, “There is a guy shooting from inside or side of his car. Rhonda says, You mean this car parked right here? Cashier: Yes! this car parked right here in front is shooting!

        If you have a chance go back and listen again to the conversation with the cashier and Rhonda.

        It wasn’t odd behavior for Rhonda because she discussed with the cashier who was doing the shooting because she knew it was Michael parked in the front of the store. She knows he has a gun in the car. She knows that the cashier just told her some guy in the front parking space is shooting from inside of his car. She knew he and she were parked there. She also heard the shots. I think and its JMO, she had all this information it was normal for her to go to the door and wonder what was Mike doing?

        There is a part where she is talking to the cashier again,but her voice is low, maybe a little slurred, I can’t really hear it, I will try and go back and listen again, it was noisy last night in my house.

        • I agree that she does not seem shocked or fearful.

          But she did leave her purchase and change on the counter.

          I don’t believe we have sufficient information to know what to make of this.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @mason

            Yep, she sure did leave her purchases, but only because she knew that Michael Dunn was shooting from his car. Finding out why he was shooting was more important at that moment to her, then to take the wine and chips. JMO

            And besides all of that….. they had liquor in there room, remember Dunn said on the stand he had a stiff drink. Or maybe they stopped again at another gas station to get their spirits or they had it in the room. I am leaning towards a stop because that was the reason for stopping at the gas station.

            But again we don’t have enough information. 🙂

  27. trisha0620 says:

    the jury is now asking to see the video of that night inside the store, of the night of the shooting, they might be reviewing how much time pasts between the shots

  28. This guy has an amazing voice:

  29. J4TMinATL says:

    Judge considering sending 2 alternates home.

  30. bettykath says:

    Jury considering tonight or tomorrow, how many camera angles?

    Judge raising the question about releasing the alternates.

  31. bettykath says:

    6 camera angles on the video. Not all seen in the trial. Question for jury: 1. tonight or tomorrow? about 20 minutes. more than what was seen in the trial.

    Attorneys agree that judge can go to jury room to give them the information about the videos and leave them with the question of when tehy want to see.

  32. J4TMinATL says:

    JURY has come back with a question

  33. bettykath says:

    Back in the courtroom 7:40. Jury wants to see the Gates video either tonight or tomorrow.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Judge told them before deliberations to ask for it since it required several steps to open.

      Dunn made sure to ask judge if they would be able to see surveillance video. Not sure what he thinks is on it to save him.

    • racerrodig says:

      I’d bet they want to see who was standing where and what angle did they see things from.

  34. Folks, to let you know we are trying to figure out why Xena has apparently been unable to comment. We have no idea what has happened, but we assure you we are working on it. We are very sorry that this happened and we have missed her as well.

  35. mojo says:

    Dunn repeatedly stated that Jordan Davis got out of the Durango and that his head was above the frame of the door. The Durango is 70.9″ tall (3 tenths of an inch short of 5’11”). The top of the door frame is about and inch below the top of the car, putting the top edge of the door frame at about 5’10” from the ground. Jordan Davis was 5’11”. I’m curious how his head was above the frame of the door.

    • MDH says:

      Zimmerman would have been better off pleading guilty and doing time. That way he would have free meals, a place to stay, and guards to keep him safe.

      Toxic George is out of money, running out of friends, and will soon be at the mercy of a free society.

      His life is becoming a pauper Damocles.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Unbelievable, make her pay for it? Erin should drop him since he cannot pay.

    • ladystclaire says:

      He’s just got to be the damn center of attention and, the media is obliging him. why don’t they stop reporting on him because, he is not news, nor is he relevant! I’m sick of him and, they need to stop this BS with him.

    • racerrodig says:

      Yep…you nailed. Somebody else has to pay my freight. I don’t know about FL, but most states have similar no – fault divorce laws. In NJ, he alone would be responsible for his legal bills with O’ Mara. He would pay his divorce lawyer and most likely she, hers. They have no kids but most states are “mother friendly” and on the heels of that Woman friendly”

      It sure takes a real man to counter sue and and try to pawn half of your defense bill on the ex.

      Yep, a real fucking Prince.

      • towerflower says:

        He doesn’t want her to pay half, he wants her to pay for ALL OF IT! Plus pay for his attorney! I’m surprised he didn’t ask her to pay alimony too.

    • Dave says:

      It didn’t take him long to blow through that hundred grand (no doubt paid in leprechaun gold).

    • Patdeadder says:

      Fogen is broke What happened to his money from the flag painting.

  36. Trained Observer says:

    Off topic: Clock ticking down on Chevaz execution in Starke, Florida. He’s the animal who killed little Jimmy Ryce so many years ago. Laat meal has been survived, unless there’s some delay.

    This should give Dunn some food for thought as he awaits his own verdict. He’s fortunate the State didn’t think he was pervy enough to go beyond LWOP.
    .

    • Trained Observer says:

      I favor abolishment of the death penalty.

      But as long it’s law in the State of Florida, there’s no finer candidate for execution than Juan Carlos Chevaz, the farm worker who kidnapped from near a school bus, raped and otherwise terrorized, murdered, and dismembered Jimmy Ryce, age 9, leaving his body parts in concrete sealed garden pots.

      . .

      • towerflower says:

        I remember when they took care of Bundy, not as many death penalty protesters for that one. I remember some present having signs that said to shut off your lights to make sure there was enough electricity to execute him.

  37. Patricia says:

    You can download News4jax app and you will have follow options

    Guilty Dunn!! this shits going down now eat your words dunn and have a rap crap for the rest of your sorry life!!

  38. Babershoptalker says:

    I must say that I am sitting her craping bricks, because I really can’t say what these folks will believe even in the face of all the solid evidence, even in the face of all the lies this guy told, even in the face of his non-giving a rats a$$ attitude after the event, someone may believe his story…I mean we’ve seen it once.

    This is like a horrible dream that only a conviction can wake me up from.

  39. Two sides to a story says:

    I’m sure CO Springs is thrilled to hear it.

  40. Trained Observer says:

    On immediately previous thread I posted a few “gems from the pen of Michael Dunn” gleaned from his correspondence to Rhonda, his folks, and his daughter among others.

    In those, he also mentioned his plans to get out of Florida and move to Colorado — specifially Colorado Springs. Seems Rhonda’s daughter and grandkid(s) live in that area. He also refers to Rhonda having moved out out of their townhouse into a smaller apartment toward downtown — ostensibly, he says, because she can’t bear to be in the townhouse without him. Also, he allows, now he won’t have to worry about her cming up with the rent. Not a word about the dog. .

  41. fauxmccoy says:

    also — will state again that i wish to high heaven that there was a subscription text service available to alert us as to when verdicts were reached in major cases.

    (if not already in existence, i shall say ‘copyright’ here and now and me and techy husband will look into it.)

  42. ladystclaire says:

    I don’t know how the jury will find him but, I do believe he will serve prison time and, hopefully it will be a life sentence.

  43. bettykath says:

    I had errands so missed defense closing and Guy’s finale. Given the rave reviews, I’ll have to look up Guy’s finale.

    Appreciate the explanations and courtesy of the judge. He’s shown respect for the jurors by assuming that they haven’t a clue of the minutia of what they are to do. Holding the alternates for some period of time seems like a good idea.

    I see the evidence of M1 and 3 counts of AM1. But I can’t predict what compromises will come from the jury. All it takes is one stubborn racist fool to hang the jury on all charges.

  44. fauxmccoy says:

    FRED — sorry, i consider this a bit urgent. as far as i know, xena is still unable to comment. i’m hoping y’all can figure out what the problem is because i miss her words here.

  45. fauxmccoy says:

    i am expecting a conviction — of what, i dare not venture to guess. i would not have been able to say this after the zimmerman trial.

    • justchill says:

      ditto. and i am still not over the fogen verdict. i never will get over that one.

    • disappointed says:

      I agree. IMO even if the jury believes Jordan had a gun the other 3 did not. Therefore I think at the very least Dunn should be found guilty of the last 4 charges. Although I think Jordan deserves his Justice just as much (if not more than) as his friends.

    • Dave says:

      Even if they give him “reasonable doubt” on the main homicide charge, they shouldn’t have any trouble convicting him on three counts of Attempted Murder in the First Degree through the Discharge of a Firearm. That’s no small thing.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Exactly what bettykath mentioned… game changer.

        Dave or anyone else, I didn’t hear the involuntary manslaughter instructions. Did I miss them or was it ruled to not include?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Right, Dave … they could get him on three counts of attempted murder in the First for the three surviving teens … plus they could get him on M2 for Jordan … or if they really wanted to extend that old common courtesy thing of which Dunn is so fond, they could nail him on manslaughter for Jordan.

        Manslaughter alone could get him 25 years and then some, since Jordan was only 17. I just don’t see how Dunn can weasel out of this.

        Then again we all thought that about Fogen. ..

    • Pat deadder says:

      I’m betting manslaughter by Thursday night.Even though he deserves murder1.

      • Trained Observer says:

        You could well be right. Plus the three attempted murders? But, yes, I think by Thursday night, or early Friday at the latest. Jury won’t want to glom up Valentine’s weekend going over what’s obvious just to make sure.

  46. Trained Observer says:

    Geez .. is this an Oscar acceptance speech for Academy Awards Night.

  47. Trained Observer says:

    I hope Mr Dunn is enjoying the “common courtesy” being extended by Judge Healey on whether he’s satisfied with the way things went today and throughout the trial.

    If jurors act in fairness, Dunn will soon be entering a world where no one will give a flying fuck how he feels about anything. That’s more than opportunity than Jordan Davis had.

  48. racerrodig says:

    I believe this jury composition seals it.

  49. dee truth says:

    I won’t even allow myself to venture a guess about the possible verdict. I’ll just wait and see and hope for the best.

  50. blushedbrown says:

    Jury has case. Alternates dismissed. Final composition of jury: 2 AA females, 1 Asian female, 1 Hispanic Male, 4 white men, 4 white females

  51. Two sides to a story says:

    “To the living we owe respect. But to the dead, we owe the truth.” John Guy quoted Voltaire. He also used this quote in the Fogen trial. It’s been used a lot of times in a lot of different ways, but it’s particularly powerful and appropriate in a murder trial.

    • disappointed says:

      I totally agree. After the verdict with fogen John Guy seemed visibly upset, I do not think he threw that case. JMO

  52. Tee says:

    Praying that my home state of Fl gets it right.

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