Aaron Alexis may have been suffering from schizophrenia

Tuesday, September 17, 2013

Good evening:

I regret to report that I have been experiencing computer freeze-ups intermittently throughout the day and into the evening that have wreaked havoc with my effort to post a new article today. The problem may have been caused by an otherworldly large Windows 8 update. Computer is functioning well now, so let’s get started.

Aaron Ellis may have been suffering from schizophrenia and experiencing paranoid delusions on Monday.

Boston.com is reporting:

The man who gunned down 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard called police in a Rhode Island city last month to complain that voices were harassing him through a wall at his hotel and that he worried they might harm him. Police said Tuesday they alerted the Navy that day that Aaron Alexis was hearing voices.

According to a police report, two Newport police officers were called to a Marriott in town around 6 a.m. Aug. 7. Alexis told them he was in town as a naval contractor. Newport is the site of Naval Station Newport, the Naval War College and several military contractors.

Alexis, 34, a defense contractor employee, fired inside a building at the Washington naval installation Monday and killed 12, the FBI said. He was killed in a gunbattle with police.

In Rhode Island, Alexis told the officers he had gotten in an argument while boarding a flight in Virginia, and he believed the person he argued with sent three people to follow him. He said he never saw the people but believed they were using a microwave machine to send vibrations into his body so he could not fall asleep. He said he checked into two hotels previously, one on the Navy base, and could not get away from them.

He would not tell officers what the voices were saying. But he also told them he did not have a history of mental illness in his family and had never had any similar episodes, the report said.

‘‘He was concerned for his own safety,’’ Newport Police Lt. William Fitzgerald said Tuesday.

Later that day, Newport police alerted police at the naval station and sent them a copy of the police report because Alexis said he was a contractor, Fitzgerald said.

‘‘What he was claiming didn’t sound right,’’ he said.

A spokeswoman for the station referred calls to the FBI.

Fitzgerald said Alexis did not call police again, and it was the only contact his department had with him.

In other news today,

1. The Washington Times is reporting that the State of Florida is investigating the propriety of State Attorney Angela Corey’s decision to terminate Ben Kruibdos, the IT specialist in her office who publicly accused Bernie de la Rionda of withholding evidence favorable to the defense. This announcement is not news. It’s a natural and probable consequence of Kruibdos’s wrongful termination lawsuit. The decision to investigate is not an endorsement of the lawsuit. It’s the next logical step in the process.

2. Dr. Shiping Bao’s claim that the prosecution threw the case against Zimmerman still has plenty of legs. Here’s a link to the Grio’s report today summarizing that argument. The report contains some additional information that I had not previously heard.

3. The DC police now claim that only one shooter was involved in the Navy Yard shootings. Police have identified him as Aaron Alexis (34). He was honorably discharged from the US Navy 2 years ago.

4. Mr. Alexis worked as a government contractor for a company called The Experts, a subcontractor on an HP Enterprise Services contract to refresh equipment used on the Navy Marine Corps Intranet network.

5. He arrived in DC a couple days before the shootings and was staying at a Residence Inn with five other government contractors working at the Navy Yard.

6. The FBI said he had legitimate access to the Navy Yard “as a result of his work as a contractor.” Therefore, he had the requisite ID to be admitted to the building.

7. He drove a rental vehicle on Monday morning and parked it within a few blocks of the Navy Yard.

8. There is an atrium inside the building with a seating area on the ground floor adjoining a cafeteria. Mr. Alexis went up to the 4th Floor and fired down on people in the seating area.

84 Responses to Aaron Alexis may have been suffering from schizophrenia

  1. bettykath says:

    It does seem that Aaron has schizophrenia. Not only does the process for security clearances need review, so too does the training for police officers in dealing with various mental and physical disabilities.

  2. colin black says:

    Woow! says:

    September 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Thanks for that information. It is said to know that the people you go to for justice are just as biased as the people committing the crimes.

    There was no evidence that TM was a druggie. Weed please!!!

    Florida wasted the tax payers money with that sham and I hope after all is said an done the house of cards fall from Wolfinger to Corey, BDLR, SPD and even the governor.

    Reply

    looneydoone says:

    September 18, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    and the “child advocate” Judge Nelson

    Reply

    colin black says:

    September 18, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    Even if foggage hed set his Black Person radar on a youth up to no good caseing out appartments to burglarise whom had partook of drugs in therecent past..

    Those are not crimes that warrant instant execution neither is resisting arrest by struggle an attempt to flee a death sentance..

    An all the appoligists whom choose to believe foggages self serveing lie about going for my gun.

    There would’ve been no gun to go for if he hadn’t inflicted himself upon Trayvons personal space an laid hands on him.

    All without explaining whom he was an what his major mall function was

    If foggage hadn’t been born Trayvon would still be alive.If foggage had stayed glued to the sofa an not gone target hunting that night Trayvon would still be alive.

    Re the reason for the ..He shot someone else remark .

    That’s easy to explain watching the foggage an Shellie reality show.How many times do you think he has threatened to kill/shoot her.Dureing his tenderly treating her days.

    Oystermans remark about him treating her tenderly is true in the way non vegetarian cooks treat a sirloin steak tenderly with a mallet.

    Or in the way abusers often have to treat there victims tenderly after a physical beating.
    To avoid the injured areas.

    And also the verbal bs stage off how sorry they are an how they hurt you because they love you blah blah blah.

    Abused people know that often the only respite an rest they can expect is after a severe beating eith phycicall verbal useally both.

    An getting the abuse is almost a blessed relief because its even worse waiting for it to happen the phycological terrors is worse no adrenilyn kicks in to numb that pain..

    An also after the storm theres the lull where your abusers wheedles there way out an try to justifie there actions.

    Those are the time when oysterman may have seen him treat Shellie with tenderness.

    An the he shot some one else comment was meant as in someone else not his useall target off abuse his Wife

  3. bettykath says:

    While Aaron may have been suffering from mental illness, there is such a thing as microwave interference being used as a weapon of disruption. Voices could have been projected into his room. The lies of the government are vast so I tend to be skeptical.

    • Malisha says:

      True, Bettykath, but frankly, the “microwave messages through the walls to keep me from sleeping” is practically “Psychosis 101” from the book. The police who responded to his call in RI should have helped him get himself to a hospital for assessment and probably treatment.

      • colin black says:

        Aieleen Wurneroose said practicly the same theng ver batim in an interview with an interviewer dureing the making or selling of A Serial Killer documentary.

        Made for or by the BBC

        She explained that the authourites had set up a microwave machine behind a mirror made of metal in her cell.

        To send out microwaves to stop her from sleeping .When they straped her down an asked Her for final statement before execution.

        She said Im going to meet my Father God now but I will return we shall all meet again when me an God return It will be assume just like that movie Independence Day when the spaceships open up there doors an shoot down them lights them lasers ecseptin we will be shooting pure love goodbye till then.

        The official spokes person whom read it out seemed embaressed an apologetic reading it out he allegedly even had to censor some of her weider remarks.

        Although they would only confirm some censorship re bad languge/cursewords.fuck yooos.

        I watched both documentrys an I M O She was one hundred percent batshit crazy an that’s explosively crage guano or bat shit is one of the most explosive substances on the planet or a least the nitrates it contains were.

        A Guy Named Nobell made a few pounds buying up all the batshit he could mainly from Brazil an Argentina.

        An if a munitions mogul setting up a prize for peace isn’t batshit crazy then Im a Dutchman with a Twin brother both speaking at once .

        Double Dutch.

        • lurker says:

          It is interesting the commonality of delusions. I remember back before there were microwaves. I would imagine that common delusions then centered on ufo’s and beings from outer space or some such. Religious delusions are also pretty common.

  4. ay2z says:

    (That was OT of course, but there is a difference between someone with a diagnosed and treatable mental condition, and someone who is a narcissist, psychopath or some anti-social behaviours. Seems people want to label psychopaths like Ariel Castro, as ‘sick’, at least that’s how he himself wanted to be remembered. )

    • Well, people are sick or unbalanced when they commit crimes, no matter how large or small these may be, IMHO. The most ill among us are so compulsive and impulsive that they find it impossible to stop themselves.

  5. ay2z says:

    The media in Orlando just can’t stay away, OS has rekindled the most recent GS story about the Bracknell emails, on the front page, top.

    I guess they have to feed the stories now from past events, as so far, we’ve heard no new ‘publicity plan’ stories by the speedy killer himself– yet.

    So, O’Mara, how’s your publicity plan working for ya so far??? Maybe pretty well, if you can sue the Lake Mary police chief and his employer for this latest email exposé.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-lake-mary-chief-20130918,0,7768595.story

  6. Kate says:

    Another African American sentenced to 25 years for standing his ground in FL, even after the attacker admitted to attacking the man for no reason. The judge? Oh the sentence is too harsh but my hands are tied because the law says I have to sentence him to 25 years!! When is this country going to do something about this biased law being used by our justice system illegally to justify the incarceration of certain groups of people?? Something needs to be done because there is no way this is America and we have this kind of travesty going on in this country.

    http://politicalblindspot.com/another-jailed-african-american-in-florida-is-told-stand-your-ground-doesnt-apply-to-him/

    • Rachael says:

      This is appalling. How can this happen? HOW????!!!! I am SO sick of racism in this country. I do NOT understand it and I certainly do NOT want to live with it. I have Florida more and more each day.

      • It’s an awfully long sentence.. Hopefully he’ll have a strong appeal. Even better, I wish Americans would get over using unnecessary deadly force, then very few people would ever have to kill anyone in self-defense, because let’s face it – there probably aren’t that many instances in which people must defend themselves to the death. America is violent and out of control.

      • a2nite says:

        @Rachel

        How you ask?

        Well this is America & many Americans hate black people unless they are good entertainers or servants otherwise we are too much trouble.

      • colin black says:

        Florida is real estate a piece of land If you look into Floridas latest high profile murders an murderers nearly all event were carried out by non local people.

        Much of Floridas population is from people up rooted from other American State Id hazzars a geuse that the State of Florida has more emigrees from other parts of America than any other certainly more than most.

        You cant go hateing on a piece of land nor those that live there 99 percent of Floridians of all Americans are peacefull respectfull souls.

        Its the one percent that are not that grab the head lines in news papers an media.

        If it bleeds it leads.

        Who wants to read about friendly neighbours no one.

        Neighbours from Hell! everyone.

  7. a2nite says:

    @kllypyn

    There were many assumptions made by all the people who failed Trayvon Martin. He was not human let alone a citizen of the USA. This country was founded by evil white supremacy and it continues today so someone has to be the bad guys.

    We just seem to be some kind of problem that needs to be exterminated. This is because of >400 years of anti-black brainwashing. It is so bad that we as black people have terrible self loathing that is manifest as black to black crime, poverty

    • Mary Davis says:

      @ a2nite. “It is so bad that we as black people have terrible self loathing that is manifest as black to black crime, poverty”.

      This is how these white evil devils want us to feel. I feel that I am just as good as any white person, and no one will ever make me feel any differently.

      They are so afraid that the day will come when blacks will band together and unite as one. Until then they will keep pushing the black on black crime, welfare, food stamps, poverty, and anything else because we as blacks are just not good enough.

      Another thing, have you ever thought about how evil racist whites are jealous of blacks. They say we don’t age as fast as they do. We somehow live longer. Now they even want our hairstyles, and at the same time they are sick evil racist people.

  8. kllypyn says:

    So they assumed Trayvon was some drugged out thug even before the autopsy had been done just because Zimmerman said so.So when the autopsy report showed barely detectable amounts of thc what did they think then. what about the DNA. What if Zimmerman were black and Trayvon were white? BTW weed is no worse than alcohol and a lot of kids have tried weed. and most are good kids. i bet some of the sanford police officers smoked weed when they were teens. With all the evidence at their disposal they should have been able to get a conviction. i’ve seen trials where they allowed the medical examiner to refer to his or her notes when testifying. Apparently the whole legal system in Florida is corrupt. Aaron Alexis should have been locked away on a mental warrant.

  9. Mary Davis says:

    @ Lurker. How can you feel for any of them?. I don’t know, maybe there’s something wrong with me.

    • lurker says:

      I see racism as more systemic than individual. And my assessment of Chris Serino on the stand was that he stood about half an inch away from chucking it all and saying that he thought gz was a big fat (pathological) liar and that his story didn’t fit the facts.

      I think that someone/something bullied him into a corner. And it’s sad, to me, now that he’s gonna lose out anyway by being made the fall guy.

      • Serino seems torn between the truth and keeping things cool on the job.

      • Mojo says:

        Correct. If Serino had properly testified and ignored the directives from above he would have been terminated (missing out on his future pension) and he’d have been considered a cancer (and unemployable) by any other PD he’d have tried to latch on with.

        • bettykath says:

          I think Serino wanted to testify fully but couldn’t b/c he wasn’t asked the right questions. There were 2-3 instances where he is answer suggested that a followup question would have been a good idea. If he had just interjected the rest of what he wanted to say, it would have been objected to as non-responsive.

      • Malisha says:

        If he’s not big enough to stand up to bullies by the time he’s a career police detective, I’m not wasting my tears on his sorry ass.

        • lurker says:

          Malisha–I am thinking that there was something pretty pervasive that was going on. And I still cannot say for certain who are good guys and who are bad guys. Remember the prohibition against asking any SPD members their individual opinions about Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence. At the time I assumed that BDLR got that put into place due to some widespread attitudes in the SPD that were opposed to charging gz. Could be. Or could be to keep any voices who could see Z’s guilt silent.

          Was there a split between BDLR and Corey? Dunno. But she seemed gleeful at the end of the trial while he seemed defeated. What was that about? Don’t know.

          What I do know is that most racism in the country today does not look a lot like white people sitting around tables plotting against black people. We know that Trayvon’s family and a lot of folks pushed back against what was going on–and some folks who wouldn’t have moved otherwise pressed charges and had a trial. Now who and what went to work to drag that down is still really hard to tell–but most likely a lotta folks whose self-interest was made plain to them one way or another.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I think Serino was waiting to field the right critical questions and my one-time/now former hero BDLR deliberately failed to ask them. This remains one of the most depressing aspects of this off-kilter trial.

  10. J4TMinATL says:

    Hi all. Thank you Professor for all of your updates.

    I’ve been in a funk since learning of the officer shooting in Charlotte, NC.

    Please listen to 911 call from woman. Total chaos. He just needed help after a serious car accident. Instead, he was shot by a young officer 12 times. I wonder what the homeowner is feeling now. Breaks my heart.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/justice/police-shootings/?c=&page=0

    • bettykath says:

      The homeowner did what was right in calling 911. She probably said that he was trying to break in so the police came ready to take him down. It’s too bad she didn’t also ask for an ambulance.

      Fear of Black men is a terrible curse in this country. Given the circumstances I probably wouldn’t have opened my door either to any stranger banging on my door, regardless of his/her color, but I would have attempted dialog as I reached for my phone.

  11. fauxmccoy says:

    follow

  12. Endless Summer says:

    Another crazy Florida story:

    http://politicalblindspot.com/another-jailed-african-american-in-florida-is-told-stand-your-ground-doesnt-apply-to-him/#.Ujmw_v2ht7I.twitter

    Michael Giles convicted and sentenced to 25 years in prison for defending himself when he was attacked outside a club. This happened 3 years ago.

  13. lurker says:

    I really feel for Chris Serino. I keep getting the impression he’s between a rock and a hard place. Somebody got to him, but now he’s likely to be thrown under the bus.

    • Malisha says:

      I hope that bus is BIG.

      • Kate says:

        Malisha I do too! Nobody got to him, and he is a sworn officer of this country who took an OATH to uphold the laws. Do what’s right and no one can tell you shhhhh He was feeding the killer information, he was making suggestions to the killer. Sure, for his part, after the outrage, they threw him under the bus anyway and demoted him and allowed him to at least keep his job. You know what…….if you are probably and possibly going to get thrown under anyone’s bus it might as well be for a valid reason. Therefore, he should have done his due diligence and performed a thorough investigation despite what anyone had to say about it because then he can say I did my part and followed procedures and held up my oath. Instead, he can’t even do that. He has to hang his head in shame for the role he played in this elaborate cover-up! I don’t feel sorry for him, I don’t feel sorry for Singleton, I don’t feel sorry for the prosecution, although I will say I still believe Richard Mantei was not in the loop. I could be wrong but he seemed genuinely upset at the loss. But then again he had to have know something was wrong with this team acting funny the way they were.

        He seemed like the only one who was fighting hard, but then again it could have been a show. All of them derelict in their duties to this country to uphold the laws. ALL OF THEM DERELICT!! From the officers, to the prosecution, to the attorney general to the governor of that state. ALL OF THEM DERELICT!! None of them should be anywhere near the justice system. They all took an oath to uphold the laws of this country and state and did not do that. All of them need to be removed from office.

        • lurker says:

          What I saw from Serino (and Singleton) was a flip-flop with regard to the interiew tapes and the attitude in court. I did expect more from him in court and it was not forthcoming.

          Yes, I cheer the heroes who follow what’s right, no matter the cost. At the same time, I can find compassion for folks who get beat down before they get there.

          I still think that Serino was swimming upstream alone on this one.

          • bettykath says:

            Serino kept trying to tell more while on the stand but wasn’t asked the questions that would have allowed it. He consistently tried to qualify his answers so the prosecution could ask for more but they didn’t.

        • a2nite says:

          @ Kate

          No he didn’t fight at all. Keeping his job was the most important thing. Public service & self interest are conflicted when you are LE in the evil racist RW south.

          • You are right about Serino. He did not fight. He even lied (said evidence was consistent with George Zimmerman’s story; it was obvious during the interrogation that he didn’t believe a word Zimmerman said). Because his body language indicated that he was the only one who was sorry about this gross injustice, several weeks ago I wrote to Serino (with a copy to his police chief), indicating how truly disappointed I was in his testimony. Of course, I got no response from either.

    • Woow! says:

      Someone needs to throw Singleton under the bus. That woman has children and sat in court and testified the way that she did. She never looked at TM parents. I hope guilt eat her alive.

      • Malisha says:

        The people who participated in this cover-up are not the types to be eaten up by guilt, unfortunately. They are the types who populate our courts, our government agencies, even our military. It is disgusting and it is demoralizing but in fact, the cover-up teams have ways to tell themselves they are doing exactly the right thing and anyone (like Dr. Bao) who doesn’t go along with their perfidy is out of place and out of line.

        I don’t believe Serino or Singleton or BDLR or Corey or Nelson or any of the rest of them are entitled to a single gram of my emotional energy, much less my sympathy. To me, they are accessories after the fact to murder.

    • a2nite says:

      @lurker

      I don’t. He can go to the devil with the rest of them.

  14. Woow! says:

    It is a shame that Sybrina and Tracy are having to find out (if they didn’t already now) that the prosecutors and LE thought of their child as a drugged out thug.

    Those parents had to sit through that charade of a trial with no justice in the end.

    I know it is wrong to say this but something terrible needs to happen to all of those involved in the cover-up and murder of that child.

    • Girlp says:

      Woow! I read that the FBI had a talk with Sybrina and Tracy and asked them to hold off on the civil suit. I have noticed they don’t talk about the trial at least nothing specific. I get the feeling the DOJ could possibly have a case against SPD, I don’t know about Corey, her team and GZ but I’m hoping against them as well. I don’t know that anything will happen to Judge Nelson except to be embarrassed.

      • Woow! says:

        Thanks for that information. It is said to know that the people you go to for justice are just as biased as the people committing the crimes.

        There was no evidence that TM was a druggie. Weed please!!!

        Florida wasted the tax payers money with that sham and I hope after all is said an done the house of cards fall from Wolfinger to Corey, BDLR, SPD and even the governor.

        • looneydoone says:

          and the “child advocate” Judge Nelson

          • colin black says:

            Even if foggage hed set his Black Person radar on a youth up to no good caseing out appartments to burglarise whom had partook of drugs in therecent past..

            Those are not crimes that warrant instant execution neither is resisting arrest by struggle an attempt to flee a death sentance..

            An all the appoligists whom choose to believe foggages self serveing lie about going for my gun.

            There would’ve been no gun to go for if he hadn’t inflicted himself upon Trayvons personal space an laid hands on him.

            All without explaining whom he was an what his major mall function was

            If foggage hadn’t been born Trayvon would still be alive.If foggage had stayed glued to the sofa an not gone target hunting that night Trayvon would still be alive.

            Re the reason for the ..He shot someone else remark .

            That’s easy to explain watching the foggage an Shellie reality show.How many times do you think he has threatened to kill/shoot her.Dureing his tenderly treating her days.

            Oystermans remark about him treating her tenderly is true in the way non vegetarian cooks treat a sirloin steak tenderly with a mallet.

            Or in the way abusers often have to treat there victims tenderly after a physical beating.
            To avoid the injured areas.

            And also the verbal bs stage off how sorry they are an how they hurt you because they love you blah blah blah.

            Abused people know that often the only respite an rest they can expect is after a severe beating eith phycicall verbal useally both.

            An getting the abuse is almost a blessed relief because its even worse waiting for it to happen the phycological terrors is worse no adrenilyn kicks in to numb that pain..

            An also after the storm theres the lull where your abusers wheedles there way out an try to justifie there actions.

            Those are the time when oysterman may have seen him treat Shellie with tenderness.

            An the he shot some one else comment was meant as in someone else not his useall target off abuse his Wife.

        • Girlp says:

          I’d love to see them all in court and pretending to put on a case is worse esp for Trayvon and Trayvon’s parents the child deserves justice, Zimmerman is a murderer.

    • Malisha says:

      WOOW it’s NOT wrong to say that.

      Cover-ups are the parents of new crimes.

  15. Malisha says:

    The shooter at the Navy Yard was obviously not sane; our system is ill equipped to deal with the mental illnesses that are common among our citizens, and the prevalence of guns and the rage culture we live in makes it worse.

    • Girlp says:

      There was nothing the police could do unless he was threating to hurt himself or others all he did was describe what he was hearing and what his mind was thinking at the time. Most likely this has been a problem for awhile unless you deal with someone who has this mental illnesses most will not understand how normal they can seem in day to day life and can think around the noise in their head but the illnesses progresses. I have to deal with this with my son I cannot get across to him that he needs to get back on his meds but he refuses and legalley he cannot be forced. He seems normal to people until they have been around them for awhile then they start to notice.

      • Malisha says:

        That’s WHY I say we are ill-equipped. When Alexis said he was being threatened by microwave vibrations coming through walls and preventing him from sleeping, he was expressing a paranoid delusion. If there was a mental health framework for him to receive help, it could have been delivered. The fact that in our advanced society we have technology to record every phone call placed by every person to every other person for five years, but we don’t have a way for two adults (police) to help a third adult (Alexis) who clearly shows that he is suffering from a serious disease (paranoid delusions are quite serious!) unless it is set in the context of criminal conduct, means to me that we are primitive in our social setting. If you ask a four-year-old what she should do when someone is hurt, she will say, “Help them.” Can’t we manage to get that codified into adult format?

        • Girlp says:

          I agree, our laws need to catch up to current knowledge of mental illness.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          Mental health care unfortunately is a luxury for most.

          Psychiatric visits (meds) are $95 a pop. Many don’t take insurance. 15 minutes long.

          You then need a therapist to combine talk therapy with medical treatment. That sets you back another $75. There are some who work on sliding scale.

          The stigma is real. Our military should have easy access to care. Insurance companies should offer full mental health care.

          • Girlp says:

            All heathcare is expensive their has to be an answer. Does The Affordable Care Act Cover full mental health benefits? As I understand the new regulations do not allow them to continue some past practices.

          • lurker says:

            I believe that mental health parity (mental health services have to be covered at the same level as physical health) is included in the affordable care act. But there are secondary problems. Our current system does not have the capacity to meet the need. Many psychologists/psychiatrists (particularly those who accept insurance or public payment) are booked over 2 months out. When dealing with someone who is actively hallucinating that allows a whole lot of time for decompensation (the official term) before treatment is even possible. Meanwhile, they are likely to lose job, home, family connection. In short, by the time their appointment comes up they are likely unable to comply with simply showing up–let alone maintaining a regimen of medication.

          • Girlp says:

            @lurker, I’ve heard that the shortage of doctors will be a problem next year…it takes years of schooling I wonder will the Government use incentives encouraging people to enter this field, the biggest obstacle is money, medical school is very expensive.

          • lurker says:

            girlp–I wish I had more solid information on that one. There has been a lot of muddying the waters by some of the alarmists on the right. I think if anything the need will show up in primary care–as those who have inadequate coverage now can be shifted away from emergency and crisis care into earlier treatment and the like.

            But, one of the downfalls of the American system is that it is devishly difficult to nail down broad patterns and to actually plan ahead across a spectrum of need. I had an opportunity to visit Cuba once–where everything is state-run (and I don’t see us ever replicating their system). Seeing the other end of the spectrum was very enlightening. For instance, they could look at population trends and determine how many docs they are likely to need in 10 or 20 years and work backwards to how many med students they would need. They could further set policy to require that prior to any specialization (except surgery) every doc had to first spend time as a primary care doc in some area other than Havana.

            We are far more convoluted here. But, I do think that we can ultimately meet the need.

      • lurker says:

        Girlp–yes and no. I have been in this situation personally and professionally. While police could not clap him into a cruiser and take him in for observation, it is possible to move the understanding of even a disturbed person in the direction of understanding that there are people who can help protect them from harm. The person who is experiencing the hallucinations is faced with two very frightening possibilities. One is that they are actually being stalked by persons able to do them harm. The other is that their own mind has turned against them.

        I agree that we need to broaden our understanding of harm to self or others in order to guarantee some form of mental health intervention for those too ill to make that decision themselves. But, in the absence, it is sometimes possible to appeal to some limited rationality by offering sanctuary in a safe place where medication may help them get some sleep and someone with knowledge can help sort out the issues.

        Frankly I am very impressed that the police were able to pick up on the guy’s security clearance and tip off the folks at the Navy Yard. Too bad that didn’t go anywhere (or not fast enough to prevent this, anyway).

        • Girlp says:

          I understand the reasons why we don’t intervene immediately there were abuses in the past and not that long ago putting people in a mental institution because they broke cultural rules such as being gay or lesbian, a woman wanting to do things on her own against her husbands wishes such as working or wanting a divorce or even a person that was a little eccentric was horrible and I believe unconstitutional.

          • lurker says:

            I agree. And we have moved away from locked institutions–which is a very good thing. But, when we closed the institutions we fell down on providing adequate care in communities–which was at least part of the intent. It puts a terrific burden on families.

  16. acemayo says:

    According to a “controversial” study, 59% of American women with multiple baby daddies are African-American which seems high, but accurate, in the Black community –
    —————————————————–
    I`m not bashing ALL black women, but a HUGE percentage more than any other race is doing this. LEAVE the whites, asians and latino`s out of this. This is OUR mess and OUR problem to correct. NO WHITEMAN EVER TOLD ANY BLACK WOMAN TO OPEN HER LEGS AND GET PREGNANT. Aint no lil white fairy stealing condoms and replacing them with aid and a child support order forms. WOMEN you know men like to f*ck raw dog. regarldess of status or race. Protect yourselfs because if the dad is a deadbeat then guess what? YOU CHOSE HIM SO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.
    ———————————————————————
    I agree because more men have multiple babies then women. I met a guy a few months ago that had 31 kids and 12 baby mama’s. My initial response was “Run girl, AIDS candidate” then I held a conversation with the brotha and educated him on how NASTY it is to not use protection. How disgraceful it is to father children you don’t intend to take care of and how he just set our race back another 100 years trying to be a freakin player
    ————————————————————-
    It really puzzles me as to why a woman would get pregnant for a guy they KNOW won’t care for it and they already know his track record
    http://rollingout.com/politics/black-women-59-percent-have-multiple-babies%e2%80%99-daddies-study-shows/#

    This also means their are many black males getting black women pregnant and walking away
    this is the truth can black people handle the truth

  17. Mary Davis says:

    @ Ham. I agree with you. Besides the Martins, the only person who really tried to help Trayvon was Rachael. She was honest and sincere, and look how the prosecutors allowed the defense to humiliate her. Instead of cleaning up the mess the defense made of Rachael, the prosecutors only made it much worse. When we look back on this mockery of a trial, it is plain as day to see that the prosecutors didn’t even try to win. It is hard to believe, but they really threw the case.

    Every last one of them should be ashamed of themselves, including Dr. Bao. I wonder how they sleep at night.

    • Agreed in total @Mary Davis. Have a lovely day!

    • J4TMinATL says:

      @ Mary

      Why Dr. Bao?
      I wonder if he told anyone about his feelings since he says he felt this way through the entire case and investigation. On stand, he kept stating I can’t remember every autopsy. But if what he claims is true (which I do), don’t we think he would know this autopsy especially well? He says there was no communication, but who kept asking him why and telling him TM deserved it?

      Side note: I wonder what his notes said. JN said they would be destroyed. MoM laughed while reading his notes. What was so funny.

      Bernie and Dr. Bao said they met for an hour the day before the trial. He says it was to ask Bernie what pictures were needed and which would be shown.

      I would like to see his depo too. I want to know what defense asked him during depo. He could have blurted out why it was impossible for TM to be aggressor.

      • lurker says:

        I think that Dr. Bao went off in a rabbit hole in discussing memory. He was speaking from knowledge that the human memory is not a thing etched in stone, that recall has a tendancy to supply missing details, etc. His point was that he placed his faith in his notes made as he performed the autopsy rather than recall.

        It really just opened him to attack by the defense.

        This is where he could have been better prepared by the prosecution. A simple statement that he prefers to rely on his notes made at the time because sometimes memory can be faulty would have been sufficient explanation.

        • MDH says:

          Science people can be intellectually honest to a fault. Note taking is the hallmark of a good scientist taking field data.

          Instead, we got treated to a certain Mr. Donnelly whose power of recall and ability to recognize screams was perfect because he said it was.

          Never mind, a self interest was clearly established by him buying George a suit.

          The golden rule in Florida is that all white people are ethical, honest and perfect, the minute they put a hand on the Bible and swear to tell the truth.

          That is what I learned in this trial.

      • When Dr. Bao performed Trayvon’s autopsy, it was not a high profile case, so I presume that’s why it did not stand out in his mind. In fact, I believe information subsequent to the trial indicated that the police had not even told him they had an identification for Trayvon (not sure why this mattered to the procedure, but apparently it did). Despite his poor performance, Dr. Bao was the only witness besides Rachel who spoke in a positive manner about Trayvon. He said he had revised the estimated time Trayvon could have lived after working on a REAL self-defense case.

        • looneydoone says:

          Trayvon’s identity was confirmed by his father at approximately 9:30am Monday 27 Feb 2012…before the autopsy commenced

          The ME’s office had an “officially unidentifed body” in the morgue until SPD sent a fax to the ME office on Wed 29 Feb 2012 at approx 12:30pm informing the ME of the name and age of Trayvon Martin…more than 48 hours after the autopsy had been conducted

          Why ?
          *that prevented Trayvon’s parents from having a representative present during autopsy
          *that allowed the SA to order the autopsy be expedited, and to dictate the scope of the post mortem exam outside the watchful eyes of interested parties (ie; parents of the minor child, Trayvon) State law allows the Chief LE Officer, in this case SA Wolfinger to take custody of all unidentified corpses

          It’s standard protocol for interested parties ( SA/DA and local LE) to send a representative to be present during the post mortem exam of all homicide and suspected suicide victims. Neither the SA nor SPD bothered doing that in this *one* case…and only in this case.

          There would be nothing gained by a second post mortem exam…the bullet fragments had already been recovered, and affected tissues/organs had been extracted, biopsied…critical evidence destroyed during the initial exam cannot be reconstructed.

          This strengthens Dr Bao’s allegations of a cover-up

  18. Dr. Bao comes across as an honest, yet befuddled guy and this news is more confirmation of the nefarious nature of this whole stinking case.

    That being said he was not a very sympathetic, organized or poised witness.

    Dr. Bao was a rambling mess on the stand to me.

    • pat deadder says:

      HamRadio says Dr.Bao was a rambling mess on the stand to me.
      In Dr. Bao’s defense although I’m not good at getting what I think in my head onto paper but here goes.
      People who perform autopsies could not get emotionally involved or they couldn’t survive for long in such a job I’m thinking.
      Apparently he had performed 3 just that morning.So he had notes on the stand of the results because I really don’t think he remembered that particular one and he expected honest questions from both sides and wasn’t prepared to be hung out to dry.Especially by the prosecution who did not prepare him because how can you prepare an honest witness to throw the case.

      • lurker says:

        Still, one would hope that the prosecution could have helped him identify what is and is not pertinent. His theories on human memory, for instance, only confused his testimony. So did his new information about how long Trayvon COULD have lived after the gunshot. Both the gunshot and a time of death were pretty firmly established as well within known possibilities.

        They also should have warned him NOT to bring his notes to the stand as they then became a part of the court record–introducing some topics that nobody asked (the marijuana use)–or at least reviewed them prior.

        • looneydoone says:

          Consider this a possibility
          During his one brief meeting with BDLR Dr Bao was advised he could bring his notes to the witness stand…had also been assured the 8 points he wanted to testify on would be asked by the prosecution

          The prosecution sandbagged both Dr Bao and Rachel
          They has no interest in gaining a conviction. The intent was to gain an acquittal for cheorge.

      • Judy75201 says:

        I think you did very well there, and I agree.

      • I’m a Forensic Anatomist, Licensed Physical Therapist & Prothesisit here in Los Angeles for to long to share with you young kids! I’ve been called about 30 times in my life to testify, often insurance claims, accidents and always with a lost limb due to performed amputation or trauma.

        I have had only cursory prep from the prosecutor or defense council.

        The thing is, that regardless of language or culture – academics have an order in which they disseminate information. Each fact building on the last. Dr. Bao, a trained MD who made it through Med School and so many application processes and job interviews, etc, brought none of those skills on that day.

        The other young man that explained the DNA had his presentation down. I do not envy the position the Dr. was put in, but testifying clearly, concisely and with a small touch of finesse about your autopsies is part of the job your paid for.

        The bottomless pit in my heart over TM’s murder grows deeper because I know that even if Dr. Bao was perfect, the entire deck was stacked from the moment Mr. Martin decided to walk to the store as an equal in society, not a frightened guest in the land of scared little people with enough credit left on their cards to pick up a cheap gun as opposed to paying off their bad debts.

        That being said – going to go slam the best Phò in town later today 😉 Be well all.

    • colin black says:

      He did a lot better than I would if I had to give evidence in Chinease or Japanease .

      English is not his native tounge a lot of Chinease pharmasists or Doctors .
      Coroners sound comical to us speaking English they are experts at there jobs as dexterity with a scalpel is the same in any languge.

      The fact his English wasn’t that great was all the more reason to thouraghly prep him

  19. Rachael says:

    ““This is bigger than the money, and $100 million would not be enough to right this wrong,” Gary told theGrio,”

    Got that right!

  20. Oops, wrong spot, but I did get first.

  21. Kinduv like the buzz about the Sandy Hook story.

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