SCOTUS issues a stay in the battle for custody of a Native American child

Wednesday, September 3, 2013

Good afternoon:

I have a short post today.

The New York Times is reporting today that the Oklahoma Supreme Court has issued an order stopping the proceedings in the case involving the little girl named Virginia. The stay was necessary because trial courts in two Oklahoma counties have issued conflicting orders regarding who should have custody of the girl.

The competing parties are the child’s adoptive parents, who are white, and her biological father, who is Native American. The child is Native American.

88 Responses to SCOTUS issues a stay in the battle for custody of a Native American child

  1. Elizabeth says:

    Ka, you totally are the real mother of and to your children!
    But you don’t need my opinion on that right?
    Much love and power to your family, very sincerely.

    • KA says:

      You do not understand, the SAME DISPUTE could happen to any of us….

      then we lose the children that are OURS…THAT is why we are passionate about it.

      Try losing your child…it would hurt like nothing else.

  2. Elizabeth says:

    Thanks Bettykath,I firmly believe Veronica should be with with her real father. Ka, you are being hoodwinked by the pr of Capobianco
    side who are being backed by the powers that be who are jumping
    at the chance to get rid of the ICWA wich was enacted to prevent indigenous children being taken from their parents and thus erasing
    (whitewashing) more origanal inhabitants of america. Just like the
    residential schools in canada or aboriginal children in australia.
    As Judge Sotomayor said, adoption is to provide a home for a child, not a child for a home.

  3. bettykath says:

    oops, I meant baby Veronica (not Jessica) is only one.

    And here’s another where the guardian ad litem lied to and about Dusten Brown as part of the baby trafficking.

  4. bettykath says:

    I’ll try again but with two posts instead of one.

    Thanks for the link to Indian Country Today, Elizabeth. There are additional articles about the sale of Indian babies by sleazy lawyers to adopting parents in S. Carolina. Jessica is only one of many. Here’s one:

  5. bettykath says:

    opps. I’m in moderation. Two links but maybe there’s a hidden link?

  6. bettykath says:

    Thanks for the link to Indian Country Today, Elizabeth. There are additional articles about the sale of Indian babies by sleazy lawyers to adopting parents in S. Carolina. Here’s one:

    And here’s another where the guardian ad litem lied to and about Dusten Brown.

  7. Woow! says:

    The mother of that child was being deceitful to the father. We don’t know what their relationship was about, if he was pressured into giving up custody just to get ride of the mother (some women play games with the cops), we just don’t know. When this man found out his child was put up for adoption, he went for her, good for him. A child should be with their biological parent if that parent can and is willing to take care of them and have not been abusive.

    The adoptive parents would understand that if they had fathered/birthed that child themselves. Sure they love her but a biological parents love is much stronger.

    Kudos to the poster up top with the multiracial family. You sound like you are a very loving parent to those kids, my hat is off to you.

    On another note I have a problem with insincere people who adopt kids of other races. I have a neighbor (crazy christian types) that serve as foster parents in the Dallas area. They got a little black girl who was 8 at the time (in my daughters class). The little girls hair was braided nicely. The foster mother decided she was going to take her hair down and wash it. Well sorry but you can not wash a little black child’s hair the way you would your own. Instead of taking her to a salon or asking one of the black neighbors or even one of the white mothers on our street with biracial kids, this women did not know what to do so she cut off all of that little girls hair.

    I was so out done that I put my nose in her business and told her she should be ashamed of what she did to that child. That little girl cried and did not want to go to school. Her hair was cut so short that you could not catch enough to even braid hair onto hers. I asked her why did she do that and she said that it went from straight to nappy. I had to walk away. The social worker was even pissed at that women for what she did.

    If you are going to care for children of other cultures, please find out about their culture, their hair, what they are accustomed to eating, etc. Some people pallets are not accustomed to your foods.

    • concernedczen says:

      Agree with you. The baby should have never been allowed to be adopted without the expressed consent of both parents. The father never agreed for the girl to be adopted.

      These adoptive parents need to back off and go buy another child because that’s what it looks like they tried to do in this case.

      There was deceit on the part of the bio mom and the adoptive parents.

      • KA says:

        How do we know there was deceit? I do not care how angry someone makes you, you do not sign off on parental rights and then expect parental rights. This is a he said/she said situation. All we know is he signed off on his parental rights before the adoption. He does not have a right the child after he signs off.

        Ask Debra Rowe…

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Tough issue and probably must be handled on a case by case basis. I’m not always in favor of adoptive parents. Too often these are placed on pedestals and touted as the pinnacle of love and decency and this really isn’t always the case. Attachment isn’t necessarily love. I’d much rather see kids stay with their blood relatives or even others of their own ethnicity unless there’s abuse. But neither do I think kids should languish in orphanages rather than be adopted by people of other ethnicities. There’s some middle ground here, and probably karma involved in these cases that become snarled in the legal system.

      • KA says:

        She is 1.2% Cherokee.and is 50% Hispanic.

        I would say if this adoptive family has fought for years over her, they love her, they consider her their own. Would not every parent fight so hard for their children?

        I am a adoptee, adoptive parent, and a bio parent to 2. I can honestly say that I will and do fight for my adoptive children (and the one not quite adopted yet) as hard as my bio children. There is no difference.

        • bettykath says:

          It seems that the child has been bought and paid for ($30,000 – $40,000 to attorneys) so, of course, they will fight for her.

          • KA says:

            No, that is not how it works. Would you pay an attorney to fight for your child? Just because they are adopted, does not make them “purchased”. That phrasing is actually quite insulting to both adoptive mothers and adoptees as well (of which I am both).

            Unfortunately it seems to be a common prejudice among those who are not an adoptee or an adoptive parent.

        • KA says:

          I paid 38K in adoption fees, agency fees, translations, in country counsel, homestudies, background checks, and orphanage donations for my daughter. Does that mean I “Paid” 38K for her?

          NO!!!!!…no one calls the medical bills they pay for their birth children “payment” for them….it is the same for adoptive parents. I had to stop my husband from decking one of my employees who asked him at a party how much we “paid” for “that cute girl?” in front of our daughter

          This line of talk and conversation is insulting to the adoptive parents and the children as well. You have no idea the damage that train of thought has.

    • KA says:

      He gave up rights voluntarily. He did not have to know what her plans were, because he GAVE UP RIGHTS! When you relinquish rights to your birth child,, you know longer have rights.

      DO you have any idea the issues of relinquishment issues in this country or others?

      He voluntarily did it, that eliminates his say after that.

      If you think birthparents are always better suited to raise children than the adoptive parents (who only get them after they are “given up’ or forced termination..which takes forever and is horribly damaging to all involved) then you have not seen or known enough orphans, adopted children, or adoptive families.Unfortunately, I know the names of hundreds of orphaned children in various areas of relinquishment and abandonment. Please do not spread that viewpoint of yours around…it kills us in the adoption community (all triads) who just want to raise our children.

      If you think food and hair is more important than a family and love, then you have no idea the foster care/adoption espidemic crises in this country….

      …and I have 2 (out of the 7) bio kids…thanks.

    • KA says:

      …and just BTW….your comment “The adoptive parents would understand that if they had fathered/birthed that child themselves. Sure they love her but a biological parents love is much stronger.”

      Is bull…are you an adoptive parent? I hope to God my daughter or sons think there is anyone in this world who is out there unknown and loves them “STRONGER than I….wow…I am speechless.

      • KA says:

        *do not think

        Also, we have a former foster son who still considers us “home” and his “parents” now 11 years later. His mother abandoned him and his siblings at 8 (she was arrested and never told the police she had kids at home)…he went to live with a bio dad who demanded a blood test to prove his fatherhood , and then was sent away to Juvenile for a heated argument. He lived with us at 15 after that. His dad was always angry that we had guardianship and never forgave his son for not tolerating his verbal and emotional abuse. This scenario continues today and he is 26, married, and in law school. We took him to every college he went to. We still support him in law school.

        He finds his mom occasionally. They talk on the phone for a short amount of time ( a few minutes) and then she has to go. She never calls him back. All communication is left to him.

        His aunt and uncle treated him like a 2nd class family member making sure their own kids were well supplied for Christmas with the latest gaming systems…he got a hat, underwear, and a radio. He cried at 17 the year he got a X Box 360 and as many or more gifts than the “birth” or “adopted” kids at home. He tried to get us to take it back. Still today, 11 years later, he struggles to accept unconditional love. We talk to him weekly and is considered no less the family as my firstborn son…

        I am glad though, in your estimation, you think that he is so much more loved by his birth family verses us.

  8. Girlp says:

    Only Whites can be greeters at this church really silly woman she has really been brainwashed. And she only makes it worse when she tries to explain why.

    • bettykath says:

      Pastor needs remedial in “what would Jesus do?”

      • Girlp says:

        What gets me she is AA, then she goes on to say “First impressions matter the church wants the best of the best on the front doors”. If it’s possible to get worse than that she say’s “quality trumps quantites”. Maybe she’s Herman Cain’s first cousin.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          For a little while I attended a different Methodist Church from the one I grew up in, and where I had raised my children.
          The pastor att he new church was an AA women, raised in the south, Baptist . (They don’t Do Girl Preachers.) A divorced woman, and totally gay hating, she once said in a sermon pinkie swear) (that if she couldn’t have “relations” because she was divorced, then the gays shouldn’t be allowed either.
          She was a f*cking trip. One of the reasons we attended there was they had a praise band and my husband joined that. (cha ching) He’s hot, what can I say? One day, she took his hand, stroked his fingers and made some comment. (Give me your reactions on that one, peeps.)
          Well, we left that church pretty darn quick, you can imagine.
          Ya just never know with people you meet, right?

          • Girlp says:

            Oh yea, I’ve heard many stories about ministers and priest. In high school I had a friend who joined an evangelical church it was a tiny church, he hit on her serveral times I told her that’s whats he’s doing but she thought he was just being friendly (Yea Right). He turned out to be a con artist he took his church members money and left.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Like politics, pastors are drawn to the Love Me Y’all while I collect a nice paycheck, but I’m a Servant of the People.
            Sad, but oh so true.

        • KA says:

          So being AA is not “best” to visitors? Dangit, right when I thought differently….

          I would say that is an absolute affront to God…”please” visitors, “displease” (and enrage) God?

          That is quite the tradeoff.

          I have no understanding of this.

          • Girlp says:

            Self hatered, there is a term for it in sociology, I’ve forgotten it but she has bought into the idea that a race or some races are superior to others even her own.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Remedial won’t help anybody who would even think about sending out an e-mail like that …. it’s so bloody awful, it’s almost good enough for The Onion.

      • Malisha says:

        Jesus wouldn’t be at his church.

  9. ay2z says:

    Begging or more business promotion for profit by the admitted child killer?

    Keeping up appearances?

    I just clicked on the WESH video, and it plays an ad, you guessed it, a HONDA dealership ad.

    Anyone guess that gz visited this Honda dealer recently?

  10. Trained Observer says:

    Apparently there’s video of this, although I haven’t seen it.

    Fogen likely can avoid points on his license if he uses a ticket clinic, but too many more of these and that won’t be possible.

    Crystal ball possibilities: Eventual license suspension … ticket for driving without a valid license or possibly without insurance … maybe a DUI or two (hopefully without any victims killed or maimed).

    There’s more than one way to get this murderer behind bars .

  11. Trained Observer says:

    This just in: Fogen nailed for speeding in Lake Mary. Am surprised he made it through Labor Day Weekend without making news.,0,203011.story

    • ay2z says:

      No kidding, Labour Day here is a big highway death toll time here, and he could have caused another family sorrow.

      I hope they can do a drug test on him next time, he may need to have the meds tweeked.

    • Girlp says:

      The ticket is $256, I guess he’ll go back to begging. He certainly is not afraid he’s out and going places he’s not hiding…I don’t believe they ever lived in a trailer in the woods anyway.

    • Boyd says:

      lol. But $256 is a ton of money. 60mph in a 45mph is nothing. He must have been going faster, enough to piss the cop off.

      Holy cow another reason not to visit Florida

  12. Girlp says:

    The idiot Fogen got pulled over for speeding again in Lake Mary Fl, this time going 60mph in a 45 mph zone this time he got a ticket…no word if he asked the LEO if he recognized him. This guy is really looking for attention I’m afraid of what he will do next because speeding is not getting him all the attention he wants.

    • ay2z says:

      Aw no, can’t be, Bill Schaefer of WFTV, said he was definitely not looking for attention. (snark)

      Maybe gz needs to get his vision checked and get some new specs ordered before he tries to read a speedometer while driving again.

    • bettykath says:

      He probably thought he could drive whatever speed he wanted and get away with hit. Looks like he has a different vehicle. Maybe now that he’s celebrity, he deserves a new one, or maybe the old one got re-po’ed

    • Rachael says:

      Sheeyit – for someone who has to live his life in “hiding…” effn asshat.

  13. Tzar says:

    Ariel Castro Dead: Cleveland Kidnapper Found Hanging In Prison Cell
    COLUMBUS, Ohio — The man who held three women captive in his home for nearly a decade before one escaped and alerted authorities has been found dead and is believed to have committed suicide, a prison official said.

    Ariel Castro, 53, was found hanging in his cell around 9:20 p.m. Tuesday at the Correctional Reception Center in Orient, located south of Columbus in central Ohio, JoEllen Smith, Department of Rehabilitation and Correction spokeswoman, said early Wednesday.

    Prison medical staff performed CPR before Castro was transported to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead around 10:50 p.m.

    He was in protective custody because of the notoriety of his case, meaning he was checked every 30 minutes, but was not on suicide watch, Smith said. She said suicide watch entails constant observation.

    Castro was also watched closely in Cuyahoga County Jail in the several weeks after his arrest and before his case was resolved by a guilty plea, with logs noting his activity every 10 minutes. He was taken off county jail suicide watch in early June after authorities determined he was not a suicide risk.

    Castro’s attorneys tried unsuccessfully to have a psychological examination of Castro done at the Cuyahoga County Jail, where Castro was housed before he was turned over to state authorities following his conviction, his attorney, Jaye Schlachet, told The Associated Press early Wednesday. Schlachet said he could not immediately comment further.

    In an interview last month after Castro’s conviction, Schlachet and attorney Craig Weintraub said their client clearly fit the profile of sociopathic disorder and that they hoped researchers would study him for clues that could be used to stop other predators.

    The three women disappeared separately between 2002 and 2004, when they were 14, 16 and 20 years old. They escaped from Castro’s Cleveland home May 6, when Amanda Berry, one of the women, broke part of a door and yelled to neighbors for help.

    “Help me,” she said in a 911 call. “I’ve been kidnapped, and I’ve been missing for 10 years and I’m, I’m here, I’m free now.”

    The two other women were so scared of Castro that they held back initially even as police officers began to swarm the house. But quickly they realized they were free.

    “You saved us! You saved us!” another of the captives, Michelle Knight, told an officer as she leaped into his arms.

    Castro was arrested that evening. He had also fathered a child with Berry while she was in captivity; that girl was 6 years old when freed. A judge rejected Castro’s request to have visiting rights with his daughter.

    Elation over the women’s rescue soon turned to shock as details emerged about conditions of their captivity. Investigators say they were bound with chains, repeatedly raped and deprived of food and bathroom facilities. Knight told investigators she was beaten and starved several times to force her to miscarry.

    Messages left for the women’s lawyers were not immediately returned early Wednesday.

    Castro was sentenced Aug. 1 to life in prison plus 1,000 years on his guilty plea to 937 counts including kidnapping and rape.

    In a rambling statement, he told the judge he was not a monster but a man suffering from a pornography addiction.

    “I’m not a monster. I’m sick,” Castro said at his sentencing.


    • Deborah Moore says:

      Oh, gosh. When I told my husband about it very early this am, he said Good Riddance. And, he is the kindest and most helpful and understanding person I’ve ever met.
      But, thanks for the post. Reliving that nightmare just now reminded me that I’m not going to sit here online all day.
      I’ve got stuff to do, and I just made a list. Somehow that helps motivate and re-motivate me.
      Nice to see you tzar.
      (enchilada scrambled eggs are about to happen here at my house.)

    • Boyd says:

      Strange case, because it was never explained how he did got away with this just blocks from where the girls disappeared.

      It’s like the system just wanted it to go away.

  14. Deborah Moore says:

    Thanks for the post, Fred. I’m sorry to hear these stories about fighting over who will raise a child. It also happens with non-adoptive parents who divorce.
    Quick, someone channel King Solomon.

    • Malisha says:

      The “Solomonic solution” was only wise in that it would flush out the true mother. It is a solution to be threatened but not used. In that regard, the courts who think they’re wise often try to do just as Solomon threatened — but it’s for their egos, not for the children’s benefit, that they do so.

  15. Girlp says:

    If he changed his mind he should have let them know within a couple of weeks it’s not fair to the child or the parents

  16. Rachael says:

    Ariel Castro found dead, hanging in cell!!!

    Sorry I’ve been gone so long – computer issues (which now means SEVERE $ issues. Ughhhhh)

    • Trained Observer says:

      Plus the accompanying aggravation of trying to figure out what to buy as a replacement. Prices are down for ever more this, that, and the other. Just trying to figure out what you need, and what you can without is a headache. Best of luck if yours croaks for good, Rachael.

      • Rachael says:

        Oh – not quite like that. It was just a hard drive issue, which is taken care of and I’m up and running again, but in the process I was out of work for several days (computer tech tried to clone my old on in hopes of preserving things – didn’t work and took a lot of time) and already at a deficit. So I am deep in the hole. Ughhhhh. Hope I can get myself out.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Rachael, best wishes for climbing out of that hole. Sorry to hear about that. I don’t know which is worse, car problems or computer problems. Neither are much fun, tho. I’m very fortunate to be with a man who can fix most things on a car and also to have kids who have twice given me a hand me down computer when they upgraded.
          Keep the faith, girl.

      • aussie says:

        For those of you in the US, several friends of mine recently bought excellent refurbished laptops from Walmart (online) for under $350, Win 7, good hard drives and 4GB memory.

        • Rachael says:

          Thanks – it’s taken care of now, and right now, $350 might as well be $350 million – I have nothing – nada, zilch!!! I’m looking around the house for things to sell as we speak.

  17. KA says:

    Just FYI and off topic…it looks like Ariel Castro hung himself. He took a plea deal, was defiant just to avoid the death penalty to kill himself in a jail cell?

    It seems to me he had to “control” his own death like controlling his and the girls’ worlds…

  18. Soulcatcher says:

    My daughters ex used to always threaten to take Moonshadow, my grandson, to the reservation. We called the sheriff, and they told us, once he his on the reservation, good luck in trying to get him. His sister had a baby while she was in jail, and CPS came to the hospital to get the baby. The tribal people showed up, and said oh no you don’t, and they were able to take the baby. I guess you don’t mess with the people from the tribe.

  19. neveragain says:

    I think the adoptive parents should get custody….the father gave the child up…I am sur the adoptive parents will let him visit…..they love that child…just because you are not a biological parents, don’t mean that you are unable to love a child unconventionally

  20. Malisha says:

    It’s amazing how SCOTUS considers “parental rights” constitutional only in the cases where those “constitutional” parental rights are in direct conflict with the true best interests of a child. Here there’s a good chance they’ll destroy a child’s ability to grow up with firm and confident unbattered bonds to decent, loving [“adoptive”] parents just because somebody lays a biological “claim” to another human being. Damn! I’m so sick and tired of the ownership of children!

    Our courts are our destruction.

  21. KA says:

    Sorry comment #2…this is a case I was following…

    I have four nonwhite adopted kids. Two are from Mongolia, one is from Hispanic (Mexico) culture, and one is AA. You know, they may be better off with someone of their own culture and ethnic background. When were were adopting our first Mongolian daughter, my husband and I sobbed over this issue in our hotel before getting her the next day. If her Mongolian birthmother walked up to our hotel and wanted her back, we would have given her to them as much as it broke our hearts…of course BEFORE she came home and was parented by us. Now, all bets are off. She is our daughter through and though and I would challenge any cultural right to her. We felt like she should be raised in her birthcountry, but after being available for domestic adoption for 18 months, it was time for her to get some parents, regardless of their cultural background.

    The same with our son. He was available for almost 4 years for domestic adoption in Mongolia. He did not get adopted. He deserves parents…period.

    Both of their children “left behind” in the orphanage, less than 1% were adopted. We just contributed for a fund to by them shoes and get toiletry items because there was NONE in the orphanage. The girls were using old clothes for sanitary napkins and had shoes with soles worn out so they could not go to school. Yes, they are in their birth country, but is that worth it? These kids will be released to the streets at 16. Many will become sex slaves and steal for their livelihood. There is no “safety net” in MOngolia for social services and children can live on the street legally.

    Anyway, my point is that once the child is home, and there was no deception involved, this child and her 1.2% of Cherokee blood (and her 50% Hispanic blood) should be raised with the parents that legally adopted her. They have fought this case for years…why? Because they love her as much as a birthchild. THAT is what the majority of adoptive parents do…they consider their adoptive children as much theirs as any birthparent.

    Anyway, sorry for the rants.

    My children are home and being parented by us. They are our children as much as our 2 birth children….let someone try a “biological”, “ethnic” or “cultural” removal from our home. We would fight it at every level until they were 18…

    • Rachael says:


    • ay2z says:

      But, identity is important to the child, they are not part of the extended family in the same way as a biological child but with a large immediate family, there may always be that link. The link back in time is limited, interesting to know about certainly, but all the ancestors are not equal to the identity of a child. No matter what, the question will always be there.
      For a child born in the US to unmarried parents, what is the legal status? Core legal issue, no surrounding issues, just the child as person? And what was it a half centure ago?

      • KA says:

        I agree on identity. We are a very open family and had our Mongolian children in language school in Denver (they hated it, we forced it). We have many Mongolian items in our house, documentaries, reunions with their adopted Mongolian peers from the same orphanage, we had a Mongolia exchange student for a year and he taught them traditional games, etc. It is an issue, I agree. I earnestly believe it is better to be reared in their own culture and birth country, BUT it does not exceed or even come close to the benefit of being reared with a family that wants, loves, and fights for them. We are very involved in cultural events and traditions in our house (we celebrate Tsagan Sar, Chengis Khan Day, and other national holidays with traditional food), but even if we were not, they would still be better off with a family in another country and culture than no family at all. The condition of their unadopted peers in the country is so tragic and disheartening I am sick to my stomach when I see new pictures or hear the basic needs that are there. Those beautiful children deserves a loving, functional home as much as my children. It is why I hate to see countries close down to international adoption. There is no tie to the increase of domestic adoption when international adoption is excluded. AKA…more kids stay in orphanages and many more die from preventable disease.

        I understand and agree with the cultural aspect, countries like Mongolia use it all the time to keep children over 4 years from being adopted….but I cannot agree that it has close to the ultimate priority of having a single, healthy, loving family for every child, foreign or domestic.

  22. KA says:

    This case is a disaster. I am an adoptive parent and also an adoptee. This is a case where no one wins, especially the little girl.

    There are clear cut rules in this case. The parents, nor social worker were aware of ethnic background (which happens often) and the mother signed the relinquishment papers with the father’s consent. He relinquished any parental authority over the child when the mother gave birth…he did not realize she was giving up the child for adoption. The mother is white and they were not engaged in the Cherokee culture in anyway. The father is 3/256th Cherokee.He is not active in the tribe, nor does he practice tribal culture.

    This is a terrible travesty when a good Act is used to justify a personal vendetta. He relinquished his rights to a Caucasian mother and now is embarrassed his daughter was raised by Caucasian patents.

    My father is 1/4 Cherokee (Cherokee Grandfather). That would make me 1/8 Cherokee legally, but I am adopted so I DO NOT use that to gain any advantage because I am Caucasian and not disadvantaged. It would be a travesty of that law for me to utilize. I could easily adopt a child from indigenous people as my percentage “qualifies”. I could belong to a tribe.

    I have too much integrity to use a Rule or Act like that to my own advantage. I believe that is what is happening here. That sweet, dear girl is stuck in the middle. He has been ordered for over a year to surrender the daughter and refused. The only one this hurts is this poor girl. This case makes my blood boil.

    • KA says:

      I apologize, the mother was a non white Caucasian (Hispanic I imagine) and the father is less than 2% Cherokee, but has a current membership in the tribe through other family. Veronica is 1.2% Cherokee.


      • aussiekay says:

        I have heard all you have to be to be “Cherokee” is to SAY you are, ie that they don’t require proof of actual “blood”. So this law is dangerous. What happened in this case is a travesty….. didn’t he KNOW he was “Cherokee” when he gave up rights to the child?

        Besides, giving up the rights is a contract, which he can’t seek to overturn through some other law, if he entered into it voluntarily. He very certainly does not have the little girl’s best interests at heart.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Yes, unbelievable. I had thought this was settled for good. Leave it to the U.S. Supreme Court to nose in … just like it did in the Bush-Gore vote counting in Florida.

    • lurker says:

      You first paragraph had it right. Nobody wins here. I am also an adoptive parent.

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