The Moral Responsibility of Democracy

Thursday, August 22, 2013

Good morning to all:

Bradley Manning was sentenced yesterday to 35 years in prison for disclosing information that embarrassed the United States government and its military. I believe the sentence is an abomination and yet another injury to our nation’s reputation as the defender of liberty and democracy.

We know people by what they do rather than by what they say. Our Founding Fathers knew that meaningful liberty and democracy cannot exist, if the governed are prohibited from knowing what the government and its military are doing. They designed the First Amendment to protect our rights to liberty and democracy by the Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press, and Freedom of Assembly Clauses in the First Amendment.

The First Amendment provides:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

We were lied into a war in Iraq when we were told that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and he was providing succor to Osama Bin Laden and al Qaeda.

The War in Iraq has caused incalculable death, damage and suffering to the people of Iraq and to our men and women who served and continue to serve there. The killing continues in Iraq as opposing religious factions kill each other in an effort to settle grievances and gain control of the government.

We cannot undue the harm but we can and must do everything possible to prevent our government and military from repeating the errors of the past.

Bradley Manning is a genuine American hero and patriot because when he discovered what was being done in our names in Iraq, he realized that we needed to know the truth. He could have chosen to do nothing. That would have been the easy choice. He could have decided not to release the documents because they were classified as secret. Instead, he realized that he had a moral responsibility that compelled him to release the documents, despite the risk of harm to himself. He attempted to minimize that risk by releasing the documents anonymously to Wikileaks, but that did not work out.

Now that we know the truth, we have the moral responsibility to do something with the information to assure that our government and its military never repeats the errors of the past. No amount of self-deceit can eliminate that responsibility.

We are learning an important lesson about democracy and the lesson is that the right to choose our leaders means that we are responsible for what they do in our names.

Because of that heavy responsibility, we have a duty to get informed and remain informed about our government and what it is doing.

The First Amendment acknowledges that we have a right to know what our government and its military are doing by prohibiting Congress from restricting the freedom of the press to publish information and our freedom to speak about that information and assemble with others to discuss it and “to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Glenn Greenwald knows that responsibility and takes it seriously.

No one who knew what they were talking about ever said that democracy was easy.

113 Responses to The Moral Responsibility of Democracy

  1. Soulcatcher says:

    CIA Super Spy Centers Near Completion

    http://americanfreepress.net/?p=3596

  2. Adam Ashton of the Tacoma News Tribune is reporting this evening that Staff Sergeant Robert Bales was sentenced to life in prison without parole by a military jury for killing 16 Afghan civilians during a killing spree in Afghanistan.

  3. Two sides to a story says:

    Blackbutterfly7’s excellent new article and video

    “In the following video, Pollock tells the Dr. Drew panel that George Zimmerman thanked him for saving his life, and accredited that to Pollock teaching him how to ‘shrimp.’ It shows that if Zimmerman was able to “shrimp,” that Trayvon could not have punched him about his head and face. According to George Zimmerman, ‘shrimping’ saved his life. Since shrimping saved Zimmerman’s life, killing Trayvon Martin did not.

    http://blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/adam-pollock-saved-george-zimmermans-life/#comment-6245

  4. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Fred,

    Please know that I have read and APPRECIATED your excellent articles that you have posted during the month of August !

    Because my time is limited I have only devoted my time on internet to the topic of social injustice as it has affected our fellow Black citizens.

    And so, when you have not seen me commenting on your blog, you now know the reason.

    • Drew says:

      Hey man, just an FYI but you might wanna revise your username!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I have other places…..both “Yahtc” and “Yahtzee”

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          Drew,

          I assume that you suggested the revision of my username because of the racists I come up against. Correct?

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Right now, I am only commenting here and on 3chicspolitico and
            Blackbutterfly7.

            I closed my account at NBC Newsvine.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Hey Drew. Your name is so past tense. Maybe an update to Draw would put you in a better mood. Be here now. 🙂

        • Drew says:

          I’m glad there are no hard feelings w/r/t Bradley Manning.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            I try not to have bad feelings about most stuff.
            And, yes, some times it’s more challenging than other times.
            I like it when it’s easy to connect.
            Thank you for hearing me. 🙂

    • crazy1946 says:

      Yahtc, Perhaps soon the Professor will find his way back to the law blog that he was so good at… Until then, we wait…. 🙂

      • These are the dog days of summer when judges take time off. There isn’t much happening, so I am just waiting for a case.

        Dunn was continued to next January or February. Arias is set for late September. Shellie Z’s status hearing was continued to next Wednesday. I’m guessing that she may plead guilty to a lesser charge.

        Do you have one in mind?

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I think what you are doing now is great, Professor! I admire you for taking on the important issues that written about. Keep up the good work!

          It is just that I cannot spread myself too thin. I am paying attention to voting rights, voter suppression, equal rights, and equal justice etc.

        • crazy1946 says:

          Professor, Perhaps you might want to look at the murder of Christopher Lane in Duncan, Ok. He was shot and killed by three young kids who were (allegedly) bored. Perhaps we could look at the cause and motivation behind this type of crime? I realize that in this case the victim was white, but the crime was so senseless that it perhaps some explanation could be found?

          http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/20/20102447-2-teens-charged-with-first-degree-murder-in-ballplayers-killing-in-oklahoma?lite

          • I am aware of the case. Some people are calling it a reverse Trayvon case, but I don’t think it has anything in common with Trayvon’s case. Appears to be a totally random shooting with the victim in the wrong place at the wrong time. No indication they selected him for any reason other than his presence coincided with a desire to shoot someone.

            They apparently have confessions and are going to prosecute them as adults.

            Most states now have laws that automatically decline juvenile court jurisdiction over kids 15 to 18 who are charged with murder. Therefore, they will be tried as adults. The good news is they get a jury trial. The bad news is the sentences are much longer, if they are convicted.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Professor, I can’t imagine that anyone with an ounce of brain matter would consider this case to be remotely related in scope to the Trayvon Martin case. What does intrigue me about this case is the motive. What causes a child or group of children to commit an act like this. What part do we as a society play in this crime? It is not like the location of the crime is set in a big city full of gangs and drug life styles are common. It is not the actual crime so much as the underlying cause of the crime… The “why did they do this” is what bothers me.. Are these children a product to their environment? Is this the end result of our society not treating all people equally? I know, too many questions about things that have no solutions….

          • It’s a difficult case for us to follow because the defendants do not appear to be suffering from a mental illness that caused delusional thinking as was the case with Jared Loughner and James Holmes.

            DSM V eliminates narcissism and combines sociopaths with psychopaths.

            I think they also eliminated the antisocial personality disorder diagnosis.

            These kids need to undergo extensive psychological testing and brain scanning to determine if there is a problem with the way their brains function, but we won’t have access to the results.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Professor, I do realize that this would be a case that would be for all practical purposes, impossible to follow, or even study (because of the lack of information that will be released), but it does concern me that we seem to be seeing more and more of this sort of crime occurring within our society today. Perhaps it bothers me more than some because of the way I try to place myself into the shoes of my fellow man to understand what they were/are thinking that caused them to react in such a manner… Thanks for taking the time to respond. Y’all have a wonderful day.

          • I try to understand it too. I call it alienation, selfishness and absence of empathy, or in other words, ordinary evil.

            Notice that I do not mean supernatural evil.

            No one knows why two people can be raised in the same abusive conditions yet be so different.

            One good and one evil.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Life is cheapened in America by gun culture, whether it be on the side of thug types or hardworking people with ideological agendas who truly don’t have much more respect for life than the thug culture they demonize and fear. I suspect a lot of kids on both sides of that divide live with quite a different mindset and are operating in a different reality from more reasonable people who can accept ambiguity and paradox, and who can engage in deeper thinking about what life is all about.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Alienation is a good word for it.

  5. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Please check out the outstanding post and video by Xena at Blackbutterfly7 entitled “Adam Pollock Saved George Zimmerman’s Life”

    http://blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/adam-pollock-saved-george-zimmermans-life/#comment-6232

    • Trained Observer says:

      If gym-guy Pollock is convicted and sent off to the slammer, I wonder if Fogen will bring him cookies in jail. These two have so many tales to share. 🙂 🙂 🙂

  6. neveragain says:

    Good article

  7. commenting says:

    What happened to scooter Libby??…did he put Iraqi citizens livesat risk when he ousted that CIA OFFICIAL??…i wonder what happened to any Iraqi citizens that was seen in the company of the CIA agent?

    • aussie says:

      What about the lives the CIA has put at risk over the years? in their various ILLEGAL operations interfering in the business of sovereign nations? Some of these have come to light as scandals; how many more are there hidden, kept secret by people’s fear of being jailed for life if they speak of them?

  8. commenting says:

    Yeah sure certain namesof CIA officials and the names of middle eastetn citizens should have been blotted out, but the INFORMATION LEAKED should have been on the nightly news…..that is information that the public has a right to know….

  9. commenting says:

    What military secrets??….again the public had a right to know the information thar waa leaked…stop fooling yourself into believing that classified information bullsheet because it was not…comonsense says that it was not….it’s like if the government tells you the color white is no longer white but instrad it is yellow you’ll brlieve them……..thay should not have been classified information….it should have been information given on the news

    • crazy1946 says:

      commenting says,

      “What military secrets??….”

      Finally we have someone who has read all of the documents that Manning pilfered and disclosed. I is comforting to know that out of the thousands of documents that were released that you can assure us that none did any damage to our nation… Thank you, I was quite worried that there might be one or two that endangered either some of our military, spy’s or national security people. I’m sure that if it did endanger any of our allies personal that they are quite capable of dealing with the problem…. Thirty five years in prison, perhaps he should have been given a high position in the military community and or retired on a huge pension or better yet, maybe he should have been appointed to congress to represent your state… Then again we do live in a society that now thinks that betraying your countries trust is an honorable move…. Perhaps we need to revisit the history books and revise the status of folks like Benedict Arnold, and the Rosenberg’s, to the real hero status they share with PFC Manning and Edward Snowden…..

      • aussie says:

        Crazy it is your turn to get real.

        Giving away actual known military secrets to actual real enemies is a totally different thing from causing the government a bit of embarrassment.

        The country should start proving itself worthy of trust…. and Snowden’s revelations indicate they have a long way to go.

        The point is, they can get away with classifying as TopSecret ANY dirty thing they don’t want to be embarrassed by — unless someone blows the whistle on them. When they say “National Security” they mean the job security of the bastards that are doing the wrong thing and hiding it under Secret stamps.

        • crazy1946 says:

          aussie, Just because it is your opinion that the documents released to various sources by Manning and Snowden are just basically embarrassing bits of nothing secret, does not make it true. You must be another one of the critics that has read all the documents released and know that none were of anything other than embarrassing to our and other governments. Speed read? While I have a huge distrust for parts of the government, I refuse to allow paranoia seize control of my sense of reality… Even back in the late 60’s when I was in SE Asia with the military, we heard similar accusations, I would guess distrust of the government has been around al long as the past governments have been… Oh well, I suppose it gives some people a purpose in life… There is one good thing about our modern society, you still have the right to have and to hold an opinion, right or wrong, you still get to have it…

          • The military hasn’t provided any credible evidence that any planned action was compromised or that anyone was harmed by the release of the documents.

            On the other hand, the video of the helicopter gunship slaughtering unarmed male civilians in a city square, including two reporters and the driver of a van who attempted to rescue one of the victims as he attempted to crawl in the street toward the van showed war crime. The gunship circled back and fired at two children under the age of 10 sitting in the front seat of the van, severely wounding both.

            I say this to you with considerable respect, but I simply cannot agree with you regarding this matter.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Professor, I suppose we will simply have to agree to disagree on this topic. This is an area where people can argue and squawk back and forth forever and still nothing will change, neither opinion nor course of history.

          • Absolutely, we do not have to agree on everything to get along and I can understand and accept that a reasonable person might disagree with me on this and other subjects.

  10. acemayo says:

    It seem Like we blame every thing on black crime
    than why isn’t the number one on America is BLACK
    10 Most Dangerous Gangs In The World
    http://www.themost10.com/10-most-dangerous-gangs-in-the-world/
    http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1151182-gang-most-powerful-feared-usa.html

  11. acemayo says:

    What two African American children before the shooting who are they, who is the
    mother, if someone knows who they pleae tell us.
    GZ social media, or what he said or did let forget about that.

    Double Standard? Robert Zimmerman reacts to athlete’s death
    Zimmerman suggested that the Lane murder is actually an example of a case rooted in racism.
    “Mainstream media is side stepping the fact that one of the alleged murderers openly professed on social media to ‘hate’ white people,” Zimmerman said, referencing The Daily Caller News Foundation’s report Wednesday about one of the suspect’s Twitter feeds.
    “George is a Hispanic man who was mentoring two African American children before the incident,” Zimmerman recalled. He told The DC that the father of those children is serving a life sentence in prison. “It goes without saying that African Americans are overrepresented in the criminal justice system, and I think George was trying to break that cycle.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/19/zimmermans-brother-responds-obamas-statement-only-reinforced-mythology-surrounding-the-case/#ixzz2clHJP0bY

    • Drew says:

      RZJr opinions are always showing up on Daily Caller, The Blaze, etc. – rabidly racist sites of former / dying right-wing stars – as if his comments are newsworthy. Why do they give him the time of day when no one else does? Could be they like his racist outlook, eh?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s pretty interesting considering the federal investigation of his brother.

        Has anyone else been watching Nettles18 blog ? Nettles18 / Annette, the vocal Canadian Fogen supporter, made a blog home at annettekblog.wordpress for the break-off group of Treestump people who fell out of favor with Sundance Cracker and were banned – or chose to leave the Treestrump because of his opposition to OM. Yesterday they had an hours long (and long into the wee hours) back and forth with Sundance and said tons of interesting stuff, some of which was edited not long after it was posted.

        What interested me the most was Sundance’s insistence that he doxed Fogen’s cousin on the Treestump at Gladys’ request – they’ve turned the story upside down and are claiming that Fogen’s cousin wanted a love relationship with Fogen and so called police after Trayvon’s death to get even with Fogen.

        Possible? Yes. Believable? Not really. I think it just points to how deeply dysfunctional the Fogen family is and how willing they are to destroy others’ lives to make themselves appear to be normal. Deep desperation to not allow Fogen to spend half his life in jail and sully their illusions of propriety. I’ve seen similar machinations in my own family and there is an interesting book about the subject that anyone interested in this psychology should read – “People of the Lie” by M.Scott Peck. You can read free excerpts at Amazon.

        Anyway, Annette and Sundance air a whole lotta dirty laundry surrounding Fogen family supporters and the legal team. Hope there’s something revealing there that points the feds to something they can use. http://annettekblog.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/august-21-2013/#comments

        Be sure to wear your goggles and waders! : /

        • Two sides to a story says:

          “Then she isn’t the person you thought her to be then. Yes, it was their specific request to get out ahead of “mischief managed” Christina Meza who was angry at George for years as an internal family matter because he spurned her love interest.

          W9″s father is Glady’s younger brother. He was HORRIFIED by what his daughter did and threatened to disown her. in addition little miss mischief had posted a bunch of stuff on her facebook account after the shooting outlining how she was going to use the opportunity to get back at her cousin.

          did you really think I could read that tattoo? C’mon,

          They Yes, R, G and Rjr, after talking to GZ and SZ told me what that tattoo said – with W9′s father in full acceptance therein. They all wanted her taken down toot sweet.

          Sorry to burst your world view of Gladys. But again, I don’t think you understand or appreciate the dynamic here.”

          Obviously.
          Reply
          sundance
          August 22, 2013 at 10:24 pm

          • looneydoone says:

            I don’t understand the comment, and will not click on the link
            Is Sundance saying that he acted on mamacita fogen’s request to dox and humiliate cousin Christina/witness #9….only to discover it is, in fact his cousin’s name he had inked on his chest ?
            That family is a pit of vipers

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Yes, that’s what Sundance claims and it infuriates the other faction who want to believe that OM and Gladys and all the Zs are lovely, lovely people.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Actually, that’s Fogen’s grandmother’s name, Cristina, that he has on his chest. Sundance Cracker – Mark Bradman, claims that the cousin Cristine possibly has George’s name tattooed on her wrist or some damn thing. They’re twisting the story back at her and claiming she called SPD with allegations of racism and sexual abuse because she had a childhood crush on George and George refused to respond to her. And that Gladys wanted her doxed and Sundance claims he gladly did so – well, we know that part is true – he did that, we witnessed it. As far as I know, that stuff is still up at the Treestump.

            The two factions have now been openly spatting on the annettekblog for 3 days.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            By the way, Sundance Cracker asked Annette to take this link off her blog over the past few days. He likes to out people but never likes his identity to be known. I’m sure many of us here read this article when it was published last year and there’s probably a couple of links to it on some old threads: . http://thegrio.com/2012/07/30/blogger-who-outed-witness-9-in-george-zimmerman-unmasked/

  12. looneydoone says:

    http://www.TomDispatch.com
    Always a good read. Today’s atricle pays homage to the late (great) historian, UCSD Professor and onetime CIA consultant, Chalmers Johnson

    Two of his many books were prophetic
    “Blowback: The Costs & Consequences of American Empire”
    “The Sorrows of Empire”

  13. biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

    Defending liberty and Democracy? Why does white male privilege believe that they are entitled to know all government secrets? No country on the planet operates in that fashion, and the US is no exception.

    I don’t care if the government knows I call my mother in Oklahoma twice a week, but please monitor those guys who want to plant bombs in their body cavities, while on a plane with me on a trip to California.

    Don’t want drone strikes against your home in Yemen? Kick your Al Qaeda brother in law out of your house.

    With the republicans in congress, 30 million Americans are in danger of losing their government mandated health insurance. Ask the unemployed guy with cancer if this blog should be about his government knowing is phone number, or focusing on issues that really matter to the average American.

    • Drew says:

      Greenwald is DEFINITELY opposed to universal health care.

    • aussie says:

      Yeah well that would be a great system — the idiots who want to blow up your plane should register themselves then they can be monitored.

      The chances of an actual US citizen or resident wanting to do that are minimal — in fact only a handful of people out of the entire population of the WORLD have ever wanted to do it. They can decide and make arrangements WITHOUT phones and internet, so no amount of monitoring YOUR calls is going to catch them anyway.

      The illegality and insult in this spying thing is that the government SUSPECTS YOU. But by monitoring you in SECRET there is no way to tell WHAT ELSE they are using the information for.

      You can’t get a job? your credit rating mysteriously drops? you get accused of crimes committed by someone with a similar name? maybe it’s bad luck. Maybe it’s the government pulling strings against someone who’s been speaking out against them. THAT is the danger.

      Go right ahead and call your mother twice a week. Just be very careful not to say anything bad against the Government when you talk to her.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        Ha. I bet if it were your young daughter on that plane, you would suddenly give up a little liberty. If you don’t think the government is already monitoring you, as I said, try to download kiddie porn.

        • aussie says:

          Biznesschic, you sound exactly the kind of person who’d cheerfully let them hold the whole country hostage, to allay artificial fears created just to let them do just that. You’ve taken the bait , hook line and sinker.

          Kiddie porn is illegal, right? so they know where it is and watch who downloads it. That is fair. That is like seeing who goes into an illegal bar or casino or brothel or dog fight etc. That is people already breaking the law.

          That is not the same as eavesdropping on all sorts of private business on the off-chance of catching some terrorist. Which they can’t catch by that method anyway. And they know it. But whatever they find out about you they can USE AGAINST YOU in a million ways if they wanted to.

          Every dictatorship has Secret Police and encourages everyone to dob in their neighbours…. except this way people dob themselves in by being free and open with their friends and relatives and the secret police just eavesdrop. It totally goes against Free Speech and against expectation of privacy.

          The chances of your daughter being on a USA domestic airliner that is blown up by a suicide bomber is a LOT LESS than her chances of having a faulty airliner fall on her from the sky.

          Besides, they “try to stop” this kind of activity with all those security checks the TSA do, remember? strip searching little kids and wheelchairbound grandmothers, remember? that is to stop your terrorist on your flight. They can do that quite well without listening in on your phone calls.

          You are scared of your own shadow, biznesschic, Wake up to yourself before it’s too late.

          • Drew says:

            She’s a lot like Zimmy.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Ridiculous to say you sound exactly like zimmy.
            And, Aussie, I think you may know less about biznesschic than you seem to have convinced yourself. To go from what she said to she’s scared of her own shadow is a leap too far.
            Be careful when you leap without looking.

          • Drew says:

            She’s in favor of gunning down innocents and throwing Manning in jail for exposing that.

          • aussie says:

            You’re right, Deborah. She’s scared of her daughter ( I assume she does have one) being in a plane that’s bombed. (Average bombed planes per year since 1950 = 1/4) so it’s not even something as close as her shadow. It’s something in her imagination, encouraged there by the same people who’d like everyone to be afraid enough to let them get away with murder in the name of security. Security they can’t guarantee with their methods, because you can’t SEE WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING.

  14. Brandy says:

    TMZ.com just reported a story and pic of GZ buying a tactical shotgun!! What a great big smile fogen has in the pic, as if to say… I got away with murder!! It is reported that his attorney Mark Omara was with him. I am so disgusted!

  15. commenting says:

    Poor guy..I feel so sorry for him……the information that he leaked did not put the country in danger…..I think that it was information that the public had a right to know about

    • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

      The public does not have the right to know all military secrets. Just as the public has no right to know your medical history.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        And we all know those rights can be bought. We live in a nation of bribes, kickbacks, i’ll kiss your ass,you kiss mine, deciet, pleas, lies, coverups, laws that aren’t followed, secrets, scams, cheaters. We live in a nation where our retirement can be taken, insider trading wipes out your 401k, where the governments allows Ceo’s to settle your money for pennies on the dollar without addmitting guilt. Where a president, no not Obama, can create one of the highest positions for someone to oversee the 401k scandels, and that person has just been charged for the same crime he was hired to oversee.

        Do you believe there is more to 9-11 than we are being told. You bet there is, and not all consperacy theries. (sorry, where is spellcheck when you need it). Do you believe we have the right to know. Sure, but the government says no, and the biggies don’t have to tell, and cannot be charge for their involment.

        We live in a nation where all is not right, and really we do have rights, ummmm not really, where people have no knowlege, and those who do live in fear of speaking out. I could tell you a story, but….I don’t want to be found in the paper in the obituaty section, as a suiside or died in a plane crash. So sad, I grew up singing those patrotic songs loud and proud, America the Beautiful, the land of the home and the free, in elementary school. I opened my eyes, and I realize years later, it was all a dream. I smile when I look back on childhood memories, life was simple and carefree, penny candies, bubble gum ciggarettes, and waxed teeth, my cool purple stingray, metal skates with a key, birthday parties, sleepovers and camp, school carnivals, cake walks, and talent shows, and who can forget the bookmobile. A time when war was a card game. What the hell happened?

      • I am banning you because you are behaving like a troll. Your comments indicate that you believe the government has absolute power to do anything it wants to do and no one has any right to question its authority. Well, I question authority. Always have and always will.

        The government and the military do not have a right to conceal criminal conduct by classifying it a secret and they cannot legalize unlawful conduct after the fact.

        • 1966 Buxton media.jpg Peter Buxtun United States Public Health Service Exposed the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment.[7] (from wiki)

          One of many historic whistleblowers, Peter Buxtin blew the whistle on Tuskegee:

          The Tuskegee syphilis experiment[1] was an infamous clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the U.S. Public Health Service to study the natural progression of untreated syphilis in rural African American men who thought they were receiving free health care from the U.S. government.[1]

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

          Following the now-banned person’s logic, the notoriously unethical experiment on black men should have never been exposed. It should have been kept secret and continued.

          That logic makes no sense whatsoever.

        • Soulcatcher says:

          I agree everbody has the to question authority. Does that mean the outcome will always be the truth? The government and the military do not have a right to conceal criminal conduct, nor do we, Fred, as an example, look at Cranes case. Sh was afforded the right to right to a trial and expect the laws to be followed. Was there not things that were not allowed, concealled, the truth skewed, glazed over to create an unjustified outcome? We have the right to object, laws that are suppose to proctect us. Does that mean it always happen? [

    • kllypyn says:

      funny how we condemn other countries for doing what was to manning.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        Wrong. Prison are full of people who commit treason. Our country is no exception.

        • aussie says:

          Actually prisons are full of people caught with personal use quantities of marijuana.

          True the public (and potential enemies) don’t need to know military secrets.

          But the fact that the government is engaging in wholesale UNCONSTITUTIONAL spying on its own citizens is not a military secret. It is something the victims ie the public) have every right to know.

          • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

            Until the supreme court tells us it is unconstitutional, it is legal.

          • Soulcatcher says:

            And tommorow it could be voted unconstitutional in exchanged for their wives being able to fly for free.

          • Soulcatcher says:

            assie, I am kind of in shock that there are so many socked at this information. For at least the last decade I have been aware the technology has been avaiable and imo has been in use. From cell phones to the internet, camera’s on streets and hughways. In fact, a friend of my daughter went in to a Indian Casio with a friend of hers, and writhen a short time the police arrived and arrested him on a outstanding warrent. Yhe minute he walked thru the door a picture of him cas captured and was linked to the police.
            I think what shocks me more is that so many people readly provide personal and financial information on sites they believe are secure. Coming from a financial background, I know this is not true, there is no secure. Harder, yes, impossible, no.

        • Prisons in reality are full of the mentally ill, the poor, the minorities, and the nonviolent petty drug offenders.

          We incarcerate more people today in the US than Stalin’s Gulag. Why? Because it’s profitable.

          Meanwhile, while nonviolent people sit in prison, the streets are curiously run by violent folks. Folks who always somehow get off and get away with everything. I can think of one recent example.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes. We have our own raft of political prisoners.

  16. Elizabeth says:


    Antoinette Tuff,what a couragous lady!

  17. colin black says:

    Put another dime in the juke box T G I F

    night all.

  18. colin black says:

    Democracy is based on one man or woman one vote.

    NO

    Unless P R proportional representation is the standard voteing system in every alleged democracy.

    Then at every single election based on first past the post at least 47 percent or higher of all citizens whom voted .

    There votes are nullified count for naught meaningless .

    If a ward or an area a prospective seat .

    Either in uk or America has a voteing pool of 25 thousand voters.

    12Thousand five hundred an one vote for a candidate.
    12 Thousand 200 an 99 cast there vote for the other candidate.

    Ther guy or gal loses an the other wins an 49.9 of the voters in that ward or seat have no voice theve been disenfranchised an there voteing ballots would have been more use wipeing there arses after a dump.

    Democracy is along with

    Pollutetricks a farse a ruse a charade De Mock Crazy an us minions an peasants mostly being lazy ensures those that want us kept hazy make the system so crazy an convulutted we dont want to hear or see. or understand faux democrasy

    We accept we have no say in this fucked up thing democracy .

    So the majority don’t even see the point in registrating to vote

    Because they no there vote will float an dissapear into some deaf ear .

    So have no fear those that rule they have always taken us voters to school as they no we are mainly comprised of fools .

    But now we have the tools to decimate thease condesending arrogant fools we like minded souls must cast our nets because there shoals an shoals off like minded souls.

    We are many they are few we can talk an they can to.

    But what we say shall hold sway as we speak not to further an agenda for profit an pay

    We speak for what the future must move forward an never stray of the path of harmony .

    Sustainability for all of today an for all of every day to come this wonderfull world we inhabit is not ours but simply ours to cherish an when our tenancy expires we want to hand over a viable livable environs to our children an so down the line .

    It could be fine but we are in the thrall of a few whom want to party like its 1999.

    An don’t give a flying duck about us worker ants or our future sprogs.

    There here for a good time not a long time.

    And when they have shuffled of this mortal coil they want everything else to die with them.

    Its the ultimate in spoilt bratdom

    You no the kid no good at ball games

    An because its his ball

    An he isn’t getting a kick or a catch or touchdown.

    They grab the ball in a fit off piuqe .

    An storm off….Saying its my ball an im takeing it home so you cant play anymore.

    Well when these elitist power nutz jobs die they know there destroying the planets eco system

    There doing it on purpose.

    When they die the ball goes with them

    They can no longer partake in life

    THEN NO ONE ELSE CAN.

    This haurange was brought to you by

    ecossiepossie.co.uk.com.

    Any ranting an raveing included in this post .

    Where purely intentional an not meant to hurt any ones feelings whom puruses Freads Threads.

    • aussie says:

      C’mon Colin, having a vote does not guarantee you will WIN.

      The whole point of voting is, not everyone’s preference can happen at once, so a VOTE is taken to decide which way to go. Majority rules.

      The problems start when the majority starts to RIG IT so they always win and the other side always loses (or those likely to vote for the other side don’t get their vote by some subterfuge).

      The best system is what we have in Australia — compulsory voting. That makes sure the politicians LISTEN to what the people want, as they have no way of preventing opponents from voting. They can’t propose anything that will benefit only a minority, as the majority can easily vote them down.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think compulsory voting with a multi-party, parliamentary system leaves a lot less room for corruption too. Our two-party system is too easy to game.

        • aussie says:

          We only have two major parties but there have been times (such as currently) when one can only get a majority with the co-operation of a smaller party or an independent. There are many more parties for the Senate, which is on proportional representation, so smaller (often single issue) parties get a chance. The Senate has longer terms, too, so only half gets changed at a time, which contributes a lot to stability. too.

  19. ay2z says:

    A message from World Press Freedom day dot org

  20. ay2z says:

    What has freedom of the press to do with democracy anyway?

    • colin black says:

      De Mock CRAZY way to run a country

      Its never going to happen.

      That would be like the board od directors of B P or Disnet A B C letting every single share holder have a say in the direction the company takes.

      And running a Nation is even more corporate an run for the benefit of the few not the many.

      Democracy was a sham at its inception in Greece an its a sham today.

      If peoples of the Western world think they have any kind of say that there votes are meaningfull then there illusion is working.

      They being the P T B ..There not illumanati or giant shape changing lizards there the Dick Chenneys an Hillary Clintons Conda.lisas in the West an the same few in Russian China .

      Have consolidated power an the Obamas an Blairs Clintons of these puppetmasters are just big straw men like Mubarek

      The power behind the throne is the true power.

      There agenda is self gratification .

      And don’t spare the horses

      An we are the horses .

      THEY SHOOT HORSES DONT THEY

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        Democracy doesn’t mean, and was never intended to mean, that the public knows all of Government secrets. If that were the case, Hitler would have taken over Europe and Robert E Lee would have won the Civil War, leaving me in slave cabins.

  21. Two sides to a story says:

    Amen. I’ll tweet and spread the link.

  22. Drew says:

    Another part of this that’s so extreme and disgraceful, and immensely destructive to our democracy, is that most so-called “journalists” on the teevee are wholly against everything that Manning and Greenwald stand for. The fact that out nation’s “journalists” seem to be in favor of throwing a whistleblower in jail for 35 years means that as a country we are more diseased and crazy than all but the most corrupt nations.

    • ay2z says:

      Could be they are afraid.

      Putting the ‘Journalism 101 clip in perspective. It will be here in the next hr or whenever, IF the load doesn’t fail again.

  23. ay2z says:

    Worth repeating 8 seconds worth, of what the founding fathers, the founders, knew when they put in the series of checks and blances to protect the consitution.

    Why do US citizens tolerate not knowing what the covernement can do to its own citizens? Do they believe it only happens to other people who deserve it?

    Manning has rung a wake up call.

    The Founders Uncerstood the dangers of eroding the consitition with unchecked (but thanks to Manning, no longer so secret) power is used against its own citizens.

  24. ay2z says:

    Excellent article, Fred And MUCH needed read for everyone here, especially those who think democracy is easy and if it doesn’t work in a foreign country, off with their heads anyway.

    This clip belongs on one of the earlier articles, than mentioned the issue of jouranlists needing to talk to sources in order to do their jobs. (well, maybe not the hacks, but real jouranlists who risk their lives to tell the story. (btw, how independent is the view when journalists are ‘in bed… errrrr…. embedded with the troops? Makes great live action tv, all neatly controlled– tune in at prime time to watch the war episode for the day)

    Journalism 101

  25. racerrodig says:

    Doesn’t this song go something like this……..??

    My country ’tis of thee………land of Hypocrisy….of thee I sing.

  26. colin black says:

    What did you expect he is everything the right wing neo cons pretend to despise.

    Being openly Gay in a don’t say no pay Army was enough to get there hackles up.

    Let alone the fact the P T B didn’t spot his Gay life style an choices on social media.

    Wich is bad enough then allowing him accsess to untold amounts of classified DATA.

    His lifestyle alone was enough to honey trap compriimise him by a forign power.

    An gain acses to the classified data.

    But he didn’t need to be honey trapped to disclose thease secrets /

    His own moral decency held sway an that’s what realy pissses of the top brass .

    All there evaluations came to naught an Manning waltzed into a position of power to expose there dirty laundry.

    Where they sending him to do his time a super max or

    Quantamo Bay
    ?

  27. Drew says:

    “He should be punished for embarrassing those superior to him.”

    – most commenters here

  28. colin black says:

    AND TRAY I SAID never mind posting to qickly my fingers are a blur of one tapity tap tap.

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