Glenn Greenwald and David Miranda are courageous men

Tuesday, August 20, 2013

Good afternoon to all of our friends.

I am going to follow-up on my brief discussion yesterday about the 9-hour detention and interrogation of David Miranda at Heathrow Airport by British authorities. Miranda is Glenn Greenwald’s marriage partner and he has been assisting Glenn’s ongoing efforts to inform the public about the NSA’s unlawful spying on the public’s internet activities and their electronic and telephonic communications with other U.S. citizens.

Although we do not know the full extent of the NSA’s unlawful spy activities, Glenn has been filling in the blanks with details released by Edward Snowden, the former NSA employee and whistleblower. The emerging picture shows a pervasive pattern of collecting massive amounts of information about the internet activities of people and their communications with others via email and telephone within the United States that have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism.

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution states:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

In Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), the SCOTUS distinguished a warrantless custodial arrest, which requires probable cause, from an investigatory stop, which is a contact with a suspect limited to determining whether there is probable cause to arrest. The SCOTUS held that a police officer cannot detain a person to conduct an investigatory stop unless he has a reasonable suspicion (i.e., a suspicion or hunch supported by objective facts and circumstances) that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime.

Foreign-intelligence surveillance is another SCOTUS created exception to the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement.

The Supreme Court decision in United States v. U.S. District Court (1972) left open the possibility for a foreign intelligence surveillance exception to the warrant clause. Three United States Courts of Appeals have recognized a foreign intelligence surveillance exception to the warrant clause, but tied it to certain requirements. The exception to the Fourth Amendment was formally recognized by the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review in its 2008 In re Directives decision. The court held that “a foreign intelligence exception to the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement exists when surveillance is conducted to obtain foreign intelligence for national security purposes and is directed against foreign powers or agents of foreign powers reasonably believed to be located outside the United States.” To protect the telecommunication carriers cooperating with the US government from legal action, the Congress passed a bill updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to permit this type of surveillance.

The Fourth Amendment and its exceptions do not authorize the NSA’s warrantless collection of every individual’s internet activities and their electronic and telephonic communications with other U.S. citizens. Therefore, the NSA’s surveillance program violates the Fourth Amendment and should be terminated.

We the people did not know that the NSA was violating our privacy until Edward Snowden exposed the nature and extent of its unlawful surveillance program that had been concealed from us by a veil of secrecy.

Our government officials and the NSA have little regard for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Instead of respect and compliance, they conceal their unlawful activity by classifying it as top secret, deny that they are acting unlawfully, and ruthlessly intimidate and prosecute anyone who blows the whistle revealing their unlawful activity to the public. To avoid reprisal, he applied to the Russian government for asylum. His request was granted and he now resides somewhere in Russia.

Glenn Greenwald is a courageous lawyer and journalist who has been exposing the nature and extent of the NSA’s unlawful spying activity with information released by Snowden. Glenn’s marriage partner, David Miranda, has been assisting him.

British authorities intercepted, detained and interrogated David Miranda for 9 hours at Heathrow aiport near London on Sunday. They also seized his laptop computer and cell phone.

Miranda was returning to his home in Rio de Janeiro after visiting Laura Poitras in Berlin for a week. She is a respected documentary filmmaker who also has been exposing the unlawful NSA spy program.

British authorities claimed Miranda’s detention and interrogation were lawful pursuant to Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The Guardian reports,

The White House knew the move was coming.

“There was a heads up that was provided by the British government,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Monday.
So the United States knew it “was likely to occur, but it’s not something that we’ve requested and it’s something that was done specifically by the British law enforcement officials there,” he said.

He would not comment on whether the United States has obtained material from Miranda’s laptop — and would not say whether President Barack Obama condemns the detention.

I suspect the United States government may have contacted the British authorities and asked them to interrogate David Miranda at Heathrow and seize his laptop and phone because they suspect he possessed classified information about the unlawful NSA spy program obtained from Snowden or Poitras. They wanted to intimidate Miranda and by extension Glenn Greenwald to scare him away from publishing more articles about the unlawful program.

Glenn Greewald said in The Guardian,

“This is obviously a rather profound escalation of their attacks on the news-gathering process and journalism,” he said.
“It’s bad enough to prosecute and imprison sources. It’s worse still to imprison journalists who report the truth. But to start detaining the family members and loved ones of journalists is simply despotic. Even the Mafia had ethical rules against targeting the family members of people they felt threatened by.”

The intimidation tactic reminds me of Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby’s effort to silence former United States Ambassador Joe Wilson, who had publicly disclosed the Bush Administration’s lie that Saddam Hussein had purchased uranium yellow cake in Niger to enrich uranium to a sufficient level to make nuclear weapons. Instead of attacking Wilson directly, however, they destroyed his wife’s career by publicly disclosing that she was a covert CIA agent. Her name is Valerie Plame.

Will Glenn go silent?

“If the UK and U.S. governments believe that tactics like this are going to deter or intimidate us in any way from continuing to report aggressively on what these documents reveal, they are beyond deluded,” said Greenwald.
“If anything, it will have only the opposite effect: to embolden us even further.”

102 Responses to Glenn Greenwald and David Miranda are courageous men

  1. ay2z says:

    If the world were only like this…. where the leaking of the truth ends up with the good guys (who tell the truth) win in a most amusing story.

  2. Drew says:

    That makes no sense.

  3. biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

    Sorry. I live here in the Washington DC area, and drove by the Pentagon, while it was on fire. I put a 14 year old granddaughter on a plane from Oklahoma City, on flight to vacation here, and appreciate that our Government is trying to foil those who want to blow up planes.

    Greenwald is an expatriate privileged white guy, who believes his “journalistic” credentials will save him from committing treason against the United States. Manning has mental issues that should have precluded him from having top secret information, again, used white male privilege to buck the system. Snowden has only a GED, and worked for a premier defense contractor, in which a man of color with his credentials in the DC area would be reduced to picking up trash on the sidewalk.
    As another poster has mentioned, me, being a person of color, has to worry about my son walking while black, and being harassed by civilians, as well as police departments. I fear my government, not with secrets, but limiting my voting rights at the voting booth.

    • Drew says:

      I’ve heard this argument before re: Greenwald, that his concerns are of the “privileged white” variety. I suppose that’s true, in terms of simplistic TV-journalism speak, but I’m not sure how government spying is a black/white thing. Also, whites – favored in surveil/profile/kill cases like Zimmerman’s, which you allude to – will tend to be privileged in terms of government spying, while minorities like Muslims, Hispanics, and blacks will be targeted for their “suspicious” behavior.

      Anyways, keep on voting for guys like Obama, though. That’ll show ’em.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        The government is always spying. Don’t believe me, try downloading kiddie porn on your computer. The feds are not interested in my calls to my mother in Oklahoma. Don’t want your phone calls monitored? Don’t call Yemen 10 times a day for six months out of a year.

    • Drew says:

      Manning didn’t expose our government foiling terrorist plots, he exposed abuses related to our military.

      It seems that you’re all for human rights violations, but as a person of color, to me that makes no sense.

    • Sorry. I live here in the Washington DC area, and drove by the Pentagon, while it was on fire. I put a 14 year old granddaughter on a plane from Oklahoma City, on flight to vacation here, and appreciate that our Government is trying to foil those who want to blow up planes.

      This statement is irrelevant because Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 and al Queda. All but one of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. The one guy was from Egypt. The planning took place in Germany.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        Didn’t say it did, however, I find no heroic actions from a guy with rage issues, taking classified secrets in which he was entrusted, and giving them to journalist. No country on this planet, where such actions are legal, and the US is no exception.

    • Greenwald is an expatriate privileged white guy, who believes his “journalistic” credentials will save him from committing treason against the United States.

      Nonsense. Greenwald is a respected investigative journalist who has a duty to report the truth, which he does admirably. He chose to live in Brazil with his relationship partner because his relationship partner cannot live in the U.S.

      Your allegation of treason is ridiculous nonsense that does not merit a response.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        Journalist do not enjoy any special privileges, as any other private citizen. As he could not make your private health records public, without you rightfully suing him, he must face the consequences of spilling stolen classified documents.

    • Manning has mental issues that should have precluded him from having top secret information, again, used white male privilege to buck the system.

      Thank you for admitting that you are prejudiced against gay and transgendered people.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        His sexual preferences were the least of his problems. He had documented fits of rage, and he once punched a female soldier in the face. If he were a soldier of color, he would have been kicked out of the military, not able to keep his military clearance.

    • Snowden has only a GED, and worked for a premier defense contractor, in which a man of color with his credentials in the DC area would be reduced to picking up trash on the sidewalk.

      Even if we assume for the sake of argument that your statement is true, it provides no assistance in evaluating the validity of the documents that he allegedly leaked.

      Since the government is not claiming that the documents are forgeries or denying that the information leaked is true, I think we can safely assume that the documents are legitimate and the information they contain is true.

      I do not deny the existence of white privilege because I know it exists.

      You have failed to demonstrate how that might affect the legitimacy of the documents or the truth of their contents. This failure demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        Ah, in once breath, you say that there are is white privilege, however, can’t seem to legitimize its meaning. Just as those of us who knew that Travyon would never get a fair trial. Point being, Professor, is that I own a company who places personnel with defense contractors, and Snowden’s resume would have gone straight to the trash. His white privilege, which led to a sense of entitlement, gave him access to information he had no right to have. Same as Manning.

        • That computer you typed this comment on? Should it go straight to the trash because it has something to do with Windows? After all, Bill Gates was a college dropout.

          Oh. You have a Macintosh? Well, Steve Jobs was also a school dropout.

    • As another poster has mentioned, me, being a person of color, has to worry about my son walking while black, and being harassed by civilians, as well as police departments. I fear my government, not with secrets, but limiting my voting rights at the voting booth.

      I agree that you have good reason to fear for your son’s safety. The situation is intolerable and must be fixed.

      I also agree that black people have good reason to fear a restriction of their voting rights. So do the poor, the marginalized and everyone under 30.

      • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

        So forgive us, if we don’t patronize those who enjoy white male privilege, touted as a hero, because white male privilege believes that they are entitled to know all government secrets.

        • Drew says:

          We are all entitled to know when the government is abusing its power and violating the rights of innocent citizens in other countries.

          Snowden/Manning/Greenwald do not feel “entitled” – it’s those in power who are entitled, and “feel” entitled to keep secrets from US citizens.

          Whistleblowers are the least entitled people in the whole sordid story. Sorry.

          • biznesschic1959@yahoo.com says:

            If the U.S. would have taken your advise, and devolved Government secrets to the public, as well as the UK during the American Revolution, We would all be singing God save the queen.

  4. aussie says:

    What would make a legitimate secret that genuinely affect national security? a few:
    how to make a pocket A-bomb
    how many of these we have
    who they are aimed at
    how efficiently we can send them there

    What was most of the Wikileak stuff?
    President X is a thug
    Country Y is untrustworthy
    we hate the guts of Z

    Embarrassing? sure. National security? no way.

    The same with earlier leaks — a litany of illegal activity by various Government agencies, including interference in the government of sovereign nations.

    You are government and you do something illegal, you can CLASSIFY IT with huge penalties for anyone publicising it, dealt with in SECRET courts under laws that don’t even let you tell anyone you’ve been charged or where you are. A perfect setup for making people disappear to keep the embarrassing truth from coming out.

    Gitmo, anyone?

    Snowden had to go to countries that won’t send him back to the US for that kind of secret treatment. There are NO secrets he can sell to them. The ONLY secret (not-so-secret) that has finally been confirmed is that the government IS SPYING ON EVERYONE. Illegally and unconstitutionally. China and Russia know that from the same news stories we know it from, nothing extra Snowden can add in person probably.

  5. Aunt Bea says:

    I have a real-life story that may just get some empathy out of this crowd. Everyone else has treated my experience as no big deal.

    Someone, somewhere, somehow placed a collect-call block on my home phone. I, personally , discovered it when I was out of town and trying to call home. I knew I hadn’t put it there. I talked to a real life person and there was nothing they could do. It was my home carrier’s issue. OK.

    So, I get home. Call Embarq, my home carrier at the time.
    My home carrier says there is no block. Can’t help me. Well, I knew damn well that the block was there. I spent an entire day on the phone with assorted representatives of Embarq and MCI in three-way calls even. EVERYBODY kept asking me if it was from a correctionaly facility. It was not. A private home phone to my private home phone. FINALLY, an MCI tech noticed a temporary block that should have expired. Maybe it didn’t, so he cleared it. He couldn’t tell me where it came from. It was for a three-month period. GR-R-R-R.

    I shoot off a complaint to the FCC. Used their website. Weeks later I get a copy of a letter from MCI to the FCC saying that their was never a block on my phone. Called me a liar pretty much. This copy came from the FCC. The letter had a phone number and a name. I call Mr. Stuart O’Brien and told him to look again because I am the one who experienced the “block”. He did “see” it this time around. He didn’t know where it came from, gave me another number (worthless) and never answered his phone again. SOB.

    A follow-up complaint to the FCC. No response.

    Did an ID Theft song and dance. I had no monetary “loss” so the stack of forms were fun to fill out. Anyway, somehow NC public utilities got involved and sent me a letter from MCI that the block came from the “high-toll” department and was put there due to “network conditions”. Huh? How many freaking collect calls are made at any given moment? My one call was gonna’ bring the network down? For 3 months these conditions were expected to exist? Luckily, it had an email address of a Mr. Stuart O’Brien of the agency relations department. Oddly, it was a verizon business account. More muddy water. I shot him an email and asked him to forward it to his “high-toll” department since they had the specifics of why they would block my phone. No response.

    During this time period, I received training on The Patriot Act. One of the bullet points was that individuals are not to let the subject of an investigation by authorities know that the authorities were asking about the subject. That would explain everybody’s “incompetence” in telling me who put the block on my phone. There is a digital trail. Just follow it!!!

    I know why it was put there and by whom. The evidence is out there. But I can’t get to it. No doubt it was an illegal search and seizure as well as a violation of my civil rights…..RICO.

    Mr. Snowden has only given credence to the tin foil hat brigade.
    I, figuratively, LOVE him!!!!

  6. Boyd says:

    In an article related to NSA, Manning, Snowden cases

    http://ph.news.yahoo.com/chinese-media-snowden-says-cisco-090020241.html

    This could affect sales if countries believe our technology has spyware.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      “This story, for example, suggests that NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden has told Chinese authorities that Cisco is helping the NSA spy on Chinese networks and computers.”
      Well. How ’bout that? Doesn’t sound like the smartest move to make, to me anyway. Nyet.
      Maybe I’m overreacting to all the I Hate America, I hate Obama Leftie-Whatevers, but…I’m doing some serious thinking about what all these young men are doing in the name of Heroism.
      I’m thinking, okay? That’s not a crime, yet, is it?
      (I blame Fred, Czar and ay2z for stretching my brain.)

      • Boyd says:

        I don’t know how to react to it. Personally I believe they (our gov’t) are very capable of having spy hardware/software installed.

        When the Reuters reporters were killed but our helicopter missiles we should have confessed.

        As goes the saying it’s not the crime it’s the coverup.

        I’m really tired of this terrorist crapola, it’s overblown , and being used as a money maker for corporations and Generals. Almost 12 years with no end in sight. Afghans want to take my freedoms away? ha ha ha

        I have some experience living in Africa back in the day, I watched Non -profits groups in action sending, managing food,medicines etc , they had a lot of success to this day Africans have a high opinion of the US.
        It’s too bad, that same formula could have been used in Muslim countries instead of taking the failed military aid route. We can produce enough food to feed the world, I would think that’s cheaper than a 12 year war.

      • Drew says:

        Not sure why you think spying illegally on Americans has anything to do with Democrat / Republican style politics.

        Obama continued the policies of Bush/Cheney. Greenwald hated it then, too.

  7. Woow! says:

    Isn’t Greenwald trying to extort the government by threatening to release information he has in his possession? He is no better than Snowden and Wikki leaks. He sent his partner over there with information he knew was classified now he wants to scream afoul and I do not think his actions was because our rights are being trampled on but to shame the U.S. government.

    On another note I do believe the NSA has gone to far and is using terrorism as an excuse but it is what it is. We were asleep and let the Bush admin start this crap. The spy game is a game of secrecy and without it there is no telling what may or may not happen. As long as we did not know about it all was good but now that we do know as expected we are upset.

    Spying on citizens have been going on for years and the govt. do not care what you do as long as it is not terroristic in nature. Just think of all the crimes they have stumbled upon and ignored them because it was not what they were listening for. (drug deals, murders, etc….) if we think they haven’t then we all need our heads checked.

    Greenwald is right but wrong for his actions. Just like snowden’s father trying to dictate terms. If he cared about his partner he would not have involved him at all.

    Ok you guys can curse me out now 3 2 1

    • Deborah Moore says:

      No cursing out from me. I’m friends with a whistle-blowing journalist. About 11 years ago, I offered to try and get an admin assistant job that would give me access to classified information. He told me No Way. You’re not going to do that.
      I have to admit, I was a little crazier then.

    • Aunt Bea says:

      Yes, we are spied upon. Things are not ignored. Intel is passed down the channels. Locals LEOs get to pick and choose what/who they follow up on. Anonymous tips?—–no such thing. We ALL know that now, right?

    • Drew says:

      His partner likely feels passionately about the same matters – you act like he was sent out as some kind of dimwitted pawn.

      • Woow! says:

        He was used plain and simple. Dimwitted no in love yes. Love blinders can make anyone not see when their loved one is using them as a pawn.

        • Drew says:

          Um, wow. I’m pretty sure he was 100% into the idea and acted on his own accord. You’re acting like it’s an episode of 24. Or like they’re high school kids.

          • aussie says:

            I am sure they knew the dangers and possibly decided he was the one in less danger. He must have known a lot to be of value to the people he went to talk with.

          • Drew says:

            Right. The other commenter is acting like it was some kind of dare that GG set his boyfriend up to do.

  8. Two sides to a story says:

    Some happy news today. The teen who was originally denied a transplant is recovering from surgery.

    http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/23204866/teen-transplant-list-recovering

  9. ay2z says:

    racerrodig, careful of those watchlists! I hope Obama has taken what Bush put in place, and did some hard thinking of what is necessary ‘now’.

    What is the NSA security concern? The knowledge of the extent or lack of extent of what they have the power to do?

    Is knowledge of the law, a violation of security?

  10. Shellie Zimmerman’s hearing today was continued to next week.

    I suspect the basis for the continuance is to give the parties another week to see if they can reach an agreement to settle the case.

    I am relying on my experience when I was trying cases. Status conferences usually are short hearings in which the lawyers tell the judge whether the case will be resolved without a trial.

    There would be no reason to continue the status hearing, unless the lawyers needed more time to accomplish something necessary in order to decide whether to try the case.

    Continuing to negotiate the terms of a possible plea agreement would be one reason to continue the hearing.

    I am not aware of any information about the case that supports or undermines my theory. As I said, I’m thinking back to when I tried cases and requested a continuance of the status conference.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Maybe this has been addressed, but I missed it. When GZ was stopped in Texas, going nowhere in particular, was SZ with him? And, is she allowed out of county/state at this time?
      Thanks, Fred.

      • willisnewton says:

        Unclear. There seems to be another person visible in the truck but that person was not identified in public records.

        As for the terms of her bond, it’s likely she could travel with permission from the bond agent but again I don’t know for certain.

        As for Shellie’s hearing, I agree that it was yet another “push the issue down the road” hearing that may or may not be indicative of a deal in the works. Someone has to propose a deal first, and that may not have happened yet. What with the general case load a judge has to carry, it could be a while before there is any real pressure for the defense to act. The longer this issue fades from the media spotlight the better chance the defense must think they have to press for leniency of some sort.

    • Xena says:

      Still wondering how ShelLIE is paying her attorney. With the defense fund drying up, GZ traveling to no place in particular, and her life ruined anyway, at least she will have 3 hots and a cot in jail.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Xena – you bad girl. Your comment created an ugly image in my mind. Something to do with her mouth. Sorry for sharing That Image.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Clearly she’s not paying her attorney with income from her much ballyhooed “nursing” career that never existed in the first place.

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer.

          Clearly she’s not paying her attorney with income from her much ballyhooed “nursing” career that never existed in the first place.

          That’s for sure. Maybe the Donnelley’s are paying it for her since they no longer have to buy clothes for GZ to wear to court.

    • Woow! says:

      Professor you are absolutely right.

      I’m not going to set my expectation high. Shelly is going to get a slap on the wrist. I do not see any jail time and a small fine if any. What I do see is probation or community service of some sort.

  11. Trained Observer says:

    Fogen’s murder of Trayvon Martin lives on in PSA.

    http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2013/08/stand_your_ground_psa_uses_911.php

  12. Deborah Moore says:

    Bradley Manning gets 35 years.

    • willisnewton says:

      The defense wanted 25 as a number, the prosecution wanted 90. In some ways I suppose that’s a victory for the defense.

      He also got 112 days reduced from his sentence as compensation for ill treatment – solitary and being held naked in a cell, etc.

      It’s hard to say this is a “win” for Manning, but it could have been a lot worse. MIlitary justice is notoriously harsh on those found guilty.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s encouraging that he may be paroled in 8 1/2 years. He may yet have a life.

  13. Girlp says:

    I alway’s suspected the NSA spied on citizens, however after 911 we seemed to give up many of our rights to privacy. I believe Cheny and Bush took advantage of the situation at the time to do this, now it is confirmed they are spying on us.

    • Woow! says:

      Yes, I kinda said the same thing in my rant below but it didn’t come out right. We were asleep and let Bush and Co do a lot of things.

      The fall out from that administration will be felt for a long time and we still do not know all they did in the name of preventing terrorism.

  14. Tzar says:

    excellent article

    • Thanks, Tzar.

      And thanks again for the Alan Watts video. I’ve watched it 5 times since you posted it.

      BTW, Reuters is reporting that activists in Syria are claiming that up to 500 people have died from exposure to poisonous gas unleashed near Damascus by Assad’s forces.

      • Tzar says:

        I have a theory that intelligence, maybe even sentience, is just an evolutionary accident, but it’s one of those forks in the road of no returns types of accidents, a game changer if you will. By this I mean we really never had to have it, it never really had to happen. I propose as evidence our gross misuse of the thing.

      • Tzar says:

        PS: I think that is about how many times I watched when I first discovered it a few years back. He is a pleasure to listen to 😆

  15. Drew says:

    If you feel the opposite about Glenn Greenwald – opposite of courageous = cowardly – would you care to explain how the guy is in any way cowardly?

    Same with Snowden.

    I mean, you could view them as treasonous traitors, I guess, because you hate whistleblowers and love AMURRICA and all that, and I would respect that, but how are they the *opposite* of courageous?

    Not seeing that.

    If you think *they’re* cowardly, then you must hang out with, I dunno, Spiderman or Evel Knievel.

    • Woow! says:

      I just see them as men who set out to shame the U.S. and when caught tried to use extortion buy threatening to do further damage by releasing more information.

      It is one thing to expose what is going one but it is another to try and sell the secrets you learned to foreign nations.

      Snowden ran to China then Russia.

      Greenwald sent his beloved to do his dirty work. Both men knew the information they have is classified and both tried to use that classified info to generate the results they wanted.

      I commend both for letting us know what is going on but at the same time both knew it was illegal and there would be consequences. Deal with it, they made to choice, stop the extortion.

      Snowden put American lives in danger if he had something to sell that other nations did not have. Now others know how we are protected and can find was around our shields or even use or own technology against us.

      Greenwald just his his status as a journalist to shame the U.S. (good for him) but then turned around to use information as extortion.

      Those action is what have me shaking my head.

      • Drew says:

        All that sounds pretty courageous. I don’t think they’re less courageous for “getting caught” or for the fact that what they exposed was sensitive.

        Still not showing me that they’re cowardly.

        PS – The US does not need Glenn Greenwald to embarrass itself.

  16. silk says:

    Professor this is very heavy information.

    • Tragic, discouraging and ominous because the military is rounding up and jailing members of the Islamic Brotherhood in an apparent effort to eliminate the group.

      Meanwhile, the protesters are unlikely to give up because they believe their cause is just and they have the confidence that comes from achieving what many regarded to be impossible when they forced Mubarak to resign.

      They have tasted democracy and want more

    • Girlp says:

      They smashed I think Miranda’s hard drive with sledge hammers. I don’t know what they think they accomplished there are many way’s to save the information they have.

      • willisnewton says:

        You are mistaken. The action involving destruction of hard drives was an intentional act by the Guardian Newspaper to defy a UK gov’t order to hand over material they had about the story.

        It was a brave and defiant act by a free press and should be celebrated. The detention of David Miranda onthe other hand was a cowardly action that deserves to be seen as such and vilified.

        It’s a complex case – thanks prof for the post and keeping up the flow of good information.

  17. crazy1946 says:

    Tomorrow is a hearing day for Shel-lie, will the judge dismiss the charges against her? It seems as if no one here cares about the criminal justice (or is that the criminal in-justice) system anymore now that the Trayvon Martin case is over.. Too bad, we were actually in a good position to inspire change in a meaningful way… But we seem to have lost the desire to force change here and instead now seem to want to change the world… I for one, do miss the lessons in law that we were receiving, but I guess those days are behind us now…. 😦

    • Xena says:

      @crazy1946. On blackbutterfly7 and 3Chicspolitico, I’m blogging post-verdict issues and news involving SYG, gun control, etc. For instance, in July of this year, the DOJ issued a report of their investigation into the Miami Police Dept and found that the department violates the 4th amendment.

      Btw, I’m with you. Through the Zimmerman case, America has shown the world that it does not apply the law equally to its own citizens. We are a nation saying we have come far, but history repeats itself demonstrating same ca-ca, different day.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Xena,

        I am grateful that you are keeping us engaged in the discussion both on blackbutterfly7 and 3chicspolitico!

        • Xena says:

          @yahtc. Thanks. The verdict in GZ’s case is not an end to the issues of injustice and civil rights, neither the issues of racial profiling and jury biases. Actually, it serves as a continuation of the struggle for equality.

        • ladystclaire says:

          @Xena, I too am glad that you are keeping the this alive because, what happened down there in that “WRETCHED” state is a shame and a disgrace before GOD. this is just like Oprah said, Emmett Till all over again! just as the world saw then, I’m so thankful to GOD, that the entire world is seeing this country for what it truly is.

          IMO, it’s definitely not the land of the free or the home of the brave. those are just words on paper that means “NOTHING” and, they only refer to just a few. how can some in this country tell people in other countries, how to treat their citizens, when they don’t do the same when it comes to how they treat AA in this country.

          The state of Florida along with that segregated jury as well as, the PROSECUTION, the Judge as well as Rick Scott and Pam Bondi, as well as the IGNORANT RACIST of this country told the rest of the world, that it’s OK to kill innocent AA males, who are just WWB AND MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS.

          This was one of the most miscarriages of justice, that I have witnessed in a long time. a child is gone forever and, some whites in this country which they tout as being the best country (NOT) in the world, see fit to celebrate that a murderer walks free, only because of the race of his victim. can someone please remind me or tell me, why did 9/11 happen.

      • Woow! says:

        As a result of the Zimmerman case the U.S. will have a hard time selling democracy around the world Xena. Also, the republicans have shown other nations that the U.S. system of voting is just as corrupt as the processes in place in their countries.

        Way to go law makers.

        • Xena says:

          @Woow! I’ve found that the U.S. system of voting is confusing for some Americans, not to speak of foreigners. We have cities where people are elected. Some administrate and others pass ordinances. We have counties with elected officials that do the same. Then there are the States and along with statutes, there are administrative laws. Then comes the federal government — more elected officials and more laws.

          What I’ve noticed and am concerned about is that in some of the more local positions, candidates run unopposed. No election is needed then because they can vote for themselves and win.

  18. crazy1946 says:

    I’m sure we will never know, but it would be nice to find out who paid Snowden to do the deed he has done…. It would be curious to know how much a human soul is worth today…. I’m sure we have all heard the stories of how the elected government is spying on us all the time, if they are doing such a bang up job of spying, just think how good the actual folks that are running the country from behind the curtain are doing things to ensure we toe the line…. Personally, I don’t give a rats a** if they read my e-mail, listen to my phone, or bug my house, because if they do they will die from boredom… They would get more excitement observing the sex life of a mosquito then they would from listening and or watching my everyday life….

    • Kimmi says:

      crazy1946 says:
      “Personally, I don’t give a rats a** if they read my e-mail, listen to my phone, or bug my house, because if they do they will die from boredom… They would get more excitement observing the sex life of a mosquito then they would from listening and or watching my everyday life….”

      Wow. Not to be disrespectful, but that sounds like a statement from the ‘sheeple’ that our governement loves as they continue to erode our constitiutional rights to protect us from “threats.”

      Sell the people by fear so they buy what you’re selling.

      I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have safeguards in place to protect against possible ‘threats’ but it is getting out of control as ‘they’ blatently disregard our constitutional rights. JMO

      Awesome article Professor, thank you. Is it possible to e-mail an address where I can send a donation? I’m currently not using any CC or PayPal via internet right now, would prefer check or MO via snail mail. Sorry and thanks!

      • crazy1946 says:

        Kimmi,
        “Wow. Not to be disrespectful, but that sounds like a statement from the ‘sheeple’ that our governement loves as they continue to erode our constitiutional rights to protect us from “threats.”

        Also not meaning any disrespect in return when I say, those words you wrote have been used so much to describe those people that you disagree with that they have become worn out and meaningless… Only a person that assumes their opinion is right and the other persons is wrong uses that kind of statement. Just because I have other issues that IMO are more important to the people of this country at this time, I refuse to become paranoid about the government listening in on my conversation, you assume I am a “Sheeple”, amusing…. I’ll get worried about that issue immediately after all of our citizens are treated as equals, and children are safe to walk on the sidewalk with out fear of death from so mad man with a gun, and right after we ensure that all our fellow citizens have enough food to eat and a place to live… We solve those little problems then I will start to worry about the big problems such as what the government hears me say about them…

        • Kimmi says:

          The above problems are important to me as well, but my constitutional rights and how they are quickly becoming non-existant are important to me ALONG with all of the above.

          Also, another concern, (which I believe), snipped from Aussie:

          “You are government and you do something illegal, you can CLASSIFY IT with huge penalties for anyone publicising it, dealt with in SECRET courts under laws that don’t even let you tell anyone you’ve been charged or where you are. A perfect setup for making people disappear to keep the embarrassing truth from coming out.”

          Or, what about the investigative journalist whose car exploded, and the engine blew out of his Mercedes? Wonder what/who he was investigating?
          The local PD ruled it an “accident” within 24 hours IIRC. Then it was reported that he was “accidentally” cremated against the wishes of his family, which I think was later retracted.
          Wonder if it had anything to do with someone ‘listening’ in on his calls? Just something to think about…

          So, call me paranoid, a conspiracy theorist or whatever you want, I don’t have much faith in our gov’mint anymore. It’s grown too big and too crooked, no longer “by the people, for the people” JMO.

          Constitution? Bill of Rights?

          At the rate things are going, they won’t be worth the paper they are written on. Let alone the next generation won’t even be able to read them, since cursive is no longer being taught in the public schools. S.A.D.

  19. colin black says:

    I do hope they adviced Miranda of his rights.

  20. Elijah says:

    I feel completely opposite when it comes to Snowden, Wikileaks & the GG conversation.

    I will sit back until some more common ground opens up!

    “This old engine makes it on time,
    Leaves central station bout a quarter to nine,
    Hits river junction at seventeen to,
    At a quarter to ten you know it’s travlin again.”……..

  21. two sides to a story says:

    “We the people did not know that the NSA was violating our privacy until Edward Snowden exposed the nature and extent of its unlawful surveillance program that had been concealed from us by a veil of secrecy.”

    I’ve always assumed, based on actions by the Bush administration in the years after 9-11, that we’ve been spied on for years. : / No surprise here.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      *cough* bu***mmmmmmuuuuuhhhssssh/cut off. *throat clear.”
      Yes.
      I think so, too.

    • I was unclear. I meant to say that Snowden has supplied the documentary evidence that supports our suspicions.

      The lesson of Terry v. Ohio is suspicions are worthless without evidence to support them.

      Also, Fox News and the Wall Street Journal are reporting today that the NSA has admitted that it can collect up to 75% of all U.S. internet traffic.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think the phone and internet carriers basically told us (or maybe the legislation allowing such told us) that the gov could spy on citizens, and so Snowden is telling us for sure that they have been – still, no surprise. I wonder why they can collect only 75%, the laggards. : /

        Just kidding. I see lots of jokes on FB about how they’re poring through reams of cat jokes and casserole recipes . . .

      • Woow! says:

        I think Bush/Cheney told us what they were doing but we just did not hear. Right after 911 there were news stories on how they were protecting the U.S. and there were some that said it was a cover up for spying on those that were against the administration.

  22. racerrodig says:

    Uno……So if the Feds are tuned in here……..Fuck off.

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