Is the center strong enough to hold?

Saturday, July 27, 2013

Good morning my friends:

Yesterday was a difficult day for me.

I love this house, the people who are here every day and the people who come and go.

I love the atmosphere of mutual respect and desire to learn, even though it has been unraveling . . .

Yesterday, everything came unglued in an argument about how much juror B-29 should be blamed for the acquittal, since she was the person with the last clear chance to prevent it.

Never mind that she never would have been in that situation if many others had done what they were supposed to do.

Where do we go from here?

Is the center strong enough to hold?

I am willing to lead.

Is anyone willing to follow?

287 Responses to Is the center strong enough to hold?

  1. Drew says:

    About?

  2. Drew says:

    Couldn’t anyone up for murder charges in Florida just say “I feared great bodily harm”?

    Well, except for that woman who got the 20 years for shooting the gun in the air.

    • Malisha says:

      And in her case, she DID fear great bodily harm and she and five other baby-mamas of the same violent DM offender had already SUSTAINED it from him.

  3. BlueJ says:

    I thought the following might be an appropriate travel advisory for international travelers to Florida.

    – Please do not extend your hand to strangers, it could be interpreted as a threat!!…. bam bam… SYG

    • Trained Observer says:

      So sad, so true. With the likes of the Zimmerman family strutting around central Florida no theme park, no neighborhood is safe. You might look like your up to sumpem. i

  4. acemayo says:

    Landry told police that he approached the boy from his front yard, near his vehicle. As he grew closer, he said, the boy made a “move, as if to reach for something” — possibly a weapon — so Landry shot him, the warrant states.
    NOPD Detective Nicholas Williams wrote in the warrant that Coulter was not trying to enter Landry’s house, and did not pose an “imminent threat” to Landry.
    Landry’s attorneys, Michael Kennedy and Miles Swanson, issued a statement after the arrest saying, “This incident is terrible, and Mr. Landry feels terrible about how things have occurred. Nevertheless, we remain convinced our client has done nothing wrong, and we are sure — as facts come to light — it’ll become clear that Mr. Landry will be fully exonerated of any wrongdoing.”

    All day long they keep pulling post critical of their slanted article that makes the criminal look like an under privileged angel. They say “Unarmed Teen” “14 Year old Shot”. Why not say “Criminal Trespasser” “Career Thief” “Property Invader” for the bad guy.
    For the Home Owner call him “the Victim”. Point out that he is the “Defender of his Family” and “Lives in Terrorized Neighborhood”.

    Obviously he used his newly acquired “Zimmerman license” to kill a young black kid.
    Honestly – how many of you white men have been out past curfew when you were a teenager and got into mischief?
    But you never had to worry that you could legally be murdered for it.
    This will only get worse.

  5. Xena says:

    On July 23rd, an Amicus Curiae brief was filed in GZ’s criminal case. Has anyone heard who filed it and why?

    • crazy1946 says:

      Perhaps it was filed by MOM to proclaim the SYG immunity rights of his client as he claimed he would do post trial?

      • crazy1946 says:

        Ok, my memory was bad (old age is as good an excuse as I can use?). It can’t be MOM, it would be a friend of the court, which he defiantly is not…… Wouldn’t be great if it was an entity giving a way to declare a mistrial? Ok, I know it won’t be, but it never hurts to wish big…… 😦

      • Xena says:

        @crazy1946. O’Mara doesn’t qualify as an Amicus because he represents the defendant. An Amicus is not a party in the case. Its brief is to help the court decide an issue before it. The only issues still pending are the sanctions in which both sides have filed.

        • crazy1946 says:

          Like I said earlier, my brain miss fired again, I knew what type of motion that was, but my memory left out the friend of the court and not a party to the case portion…. I shout out, my bad, as I slink back to my rock and craw under it….. (but thanks for pointing out my error without giving me lead poisoning!) 😉

          • Xena says:

            @crazy1946. Do I have to take that rock from you? 🙂

            I’m feeling disappointed and angry with the media. They were quick to report on motions filed in the case but are apparently silent on the Amicus brief.

          • crazy1946 says:

            You can’t have my security rock… If you try I’ll sick my four legged child on you and he’ll eat you, unless you have a dog treat, then he’ll probably give you my rock…..

          • Xena says:

            @crazy1946. 🙂 I keep buffalo bones in the freezer just for four-legged canines. LOL!

    • pdeadder says:

      Zena Could an Amicus Curiae brief be filed by the NAACP or even the DOJ. I could be going a little crazy and raising my hopes again.

      • Xena says:

        @pdeadder. Amicus briefs are generally filed in cases before an appellate court and addresses the issue before the court. It appears that an amicus brief filed in a criminal case after the verdict automatically renders a lack of standing — unless it has something to do with the sanctions. The defense neither prosecution has scheduled sanction hearings yet.

        I can’t help but wonder with all the media lip-flapping against gag orders, why they haven’t reported on the amicus brief.

        • pdeadder says:

          Xena Sorry I spelled your name wrong and thank you for the answer to my question about amicus briefs.After verdict I’ve lost interest in their stupid sanctions.

    • Malisha says:

      Never heard you COULD file an amicus in a criminal case! What case? July 23 the case was over! Huh? You can file an amicus in an appeal … ????

  6. acemayo says:

    Man booked with attempted second-degree murder after 14-year-old shot
    The black teen had no reason to trepass he was wrong
    But
    Can you shoot to kill is someone is in your yard

    • a2nite says:

      Yes, looks like it.

    • concernedczen says:

      Maybe the kid was playing ball and the ball went into the yard and the kid tried to get it.

      Something that most of us have probably done as kids.

    • colin black says:

      Aparently you can shoot some one in Merica for any thing

      I saw a cop murder a deaf man chiselling carveing a piece of wood.
      He was a Native American deaf alchoholic with learning an emotion difficulties But never violent

      He walked in front of this cops car carving a wooden sculpture he sold on the street being homeless an all.

      An this cop jumped out his car ran down the intersection .

      Shouted for him to drop the knife from behind the deaf dude an then shot him sevral times I think

      Dead obviously.

      Ur what about the old dude said he found two teenagers in his basement robbing him an he shot the boy as they again were teens an then said he executed the girl for laughing at him?

      As you do when you witness you boyfriends being blown away in front of you

      Ive said it once an I will say it again only in gun crazt America.

      You can have all the responcable gun owners you want is it worth the risk of letting the lunitics also have acsess?

  7. J4TMinATL says:

    Hi all,

    This is how I feel.

    She is a minority.
    She has 8 kids.
    She is married.
    She is 36.
    She had a job.

    I feel that some minority posters here dogged her maybe because she fits the mold of what whites say: “ghetto, too many children, weak, welfare queen, works menial job and list goes on.”

    My question is why are the minority posters dogging her? Is it because she had a “duty” as a black or minority woman to vote to protect the black race? And since she didn’t, you’re going to trash her as one of those minorities that is a piece of crap and fall for the white stereotype?

    I don’t get it.

    • cielo62 says:

      J4TM- maybe we’re dogging her because she failed as a HUMAN BEING? This has nothing to do with color and everything to do with spine. She caved in, gave up, threw in the towel, surrendered , and in all ways allowed evil to score a victory. She admits gz murdered but didn’t have the moral strength to last more than 16 hours. Pathetic. What would our ancestors have done, in the face of injustice? Many fought, were imprisoned and even died for our rights. She? She couldn’t stand up to 5 women and hang the jury. Purely disgusting.

      FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t care what she was; she had a duty to vote her conscience. If she couldn’t, at least don’t get punk on us and say she hurts as much as Sybrina. I mean: SHUT UP!

  8. Dave says:

    I don’t know if it’s true but I’ve seen GZ supporters claim that Trayvon’s parents have registered “Trayvon Martin” as a trade mark and may have sold a few t-shirts or something bearing his picture. If this is true I suspect that they did it simply to prevent others from exploiting his name. If this is true maybe they actually could sue for “slander” on the grounds that the perpetrators are harming the value of their trade mark.

    • dianetrotter says:

      Yes, they explained that. People were selling t-shirts with Trayvon, skittles and a gun across the skittles. There were other such items. Sabrina does not want them making money off her son’s death. Imagine what happens if a gang decides to suit up in the shirts and commit a crime.

    • Malisha says:

      GOOD IDEA!

  9. LBTG says:

    Trayvon’s slander does affect his justice due for being murdered. MOM’s portrayal of Trayvon being a thug resulted in Trayvon’s killer going free. Don’t we believe in justice anymore? Isn’t justice important? If not, then do away with the whole justice system.

    • Malisha says:

      O’Mara’s campaign continues because he is aware that in the civil suit, EVERYTHING COMES OUT. In the civil suit, no BDLR hiding Serino’s little balls in Corey’s back pocket, no no no. In the civil suit, no hiding Fogen, either. Say whatever you want about Trayvon in the civil suit; they’ll say whatever they want about Fogen in the civil suit too. We’ll hear from all the other folks who wouldn’t get on the stand in the criminal action, HA HA HA HA HA!!

  10. god I despise omara!! he’s still out there spreading LIES about Trayvon! You know if Trayvon was such an undeserving thug, why do they have to LIE to make him look BAD???? they should have TRUTH to make a thug look bad!!!!

    Xena told me you can’t sue anyone for slander or whatever of Trayvon because is dead. I guess that makes sense since he’s not here to be affected by these character attacks but it’s just so incredible that the jury and EVERYONE else (especially the media) did NOT get outraged by their attack on Trayvon and Rachel, like they usually do when defendants use the ol blame the victim defense!

    ——————————————————————————————-

    At the same time that Zimmerman supporters are telling Trayvon Martin supporters to accept the verdict and move on, Zimmerman’s attorney is still trashing Trayvon Martin in the media.

    On an episode of “The Steve Malzberg Show” on the right wing Newsmax channel yesterday, Zimmerman’s defense lawyer, Mark O’Mara, said Martin Trayvon Martin may’ve been a recipe for “purple drank” on the night the teen was gunned down by O’Mara’s client.

    “If you do a Google Search for ‘Purple Lean’ or ‘lean drink’ or ‘lean drank’ it is sort of an urban kind of drug. It’s known in some circles as poor man’s ecstasy or something like that,” said O’Mara.

    “The main ingredients are watermelon, Arizona watermelon juice, a hard candy … for sweetness, and then some type of either codeine tablets if you can get them or Coricidin D, Robitussin DM,” he explained.

    “It’s an intoxicant and it’s a fairly significant one,” O’Mara added.

    O’Mara and Malzberg also said that Trayvon Martin had a liver abnormality that may’ve been caused by the “purple lean.”

    Mark O’Mara isn’t the only Zimmerman supporter to continue to disparage Trayvon Martin after his death. If you recall, George Zimmerman’s brother, Robert Zimmerman, couldn’t even wait a full 24 hours before calling Trayvon Martin a thug.

    “I want to know if it’s true, and I don’t know if it’s true, that Trayvon Martin was looking to procure firearms, or growing marijuana, or looking to make lean,” George Zimmerman’s brother, Robert, told Piers Morgan and Don Lemon shortly after the verdict was announced.

    http://breakingbrown.com/2013/07/still-trashing-trayvon-zimmermans-lawyer-says-dead-teen-had-recipe-for-purple-drank/

    • BlueJ says:

      I absolutely loath O’Mara (and ice cream West). They are despicable human beings.

      In defence of juror B29…… Judge Nelson provided the other jurors plenty of ammunition to beat B29 with. Nelson’s jury instructions, which told them to ignore all of Zimmerman’s stalking, might as well have been written by O’Mara. They were instructions to find GZ not guilty.

    • Olivia says:

      O’Mara changed the recipe’s ingredients. It calls for Sprite or Mountain Dew, and Jolly rancher’s candy.

      Of the first 10 sites returned on a google search for “Purple Lean” , 8 state the ingredients include Sprite (or Sprite/Mountain Dew) and Jolly Ranchers candy.

      At the remaining 2 sites, the Sprite/Mountain Dew has been replaced with watermelon drink and Skittles.

      Get this: 1 of the 2 sites is the Conservative Tree House. The other is a Topix forum on which someone posted that Trayvon consumed “Purple Lean” made with watermelon drink and Skittles.

    • Endless Summer says:

      MO’M doesn’t have a decent bone in his body. This is more poisoning of the jury pool for a civil trial.

      I have read through the Florida Wrongful Death Act (assuming that is the suit that would be brought) and I didn’t see anything that specified where the suit had to be filed. If the Martin/Fulton family can file in Miami, I think they will be able to seat a very different jury than they came up with in Sanford.

    • colin black says:

      I don’t a don’t friggin care .
      Its probably as everything that comes out of M O M mouth rehashed conspirct treehouse nonsence same ols same los they been spewinn since day one .

      Its BS

      BUT
      Even if any off it or all of it were true it wouldn’t matter a dam re his murdering clients guilt.

      Trayvons goals an angenda that night was to return home to his lawfull abode.

      He had no drugs weapons or stolen goods on him.

      He could have been the biggest cat burglar on the east coast of Florida that’s not a death sentence offence.

      He was commiting no crime no probable cause for even a real policeman to stop him.

      The foggage one knew diddly squat about him not his name or age sepptin he was a young teen child.

      If trayvon had been expelled from school for being a pot dealer or having a tude doesn’t give the likes of foggage the right to retispectively say see he was a bad kid I did the world a favour??

      Wich is exactly what horseshite omanic omara see ya tommarra omara is spewin.

      More blatant overst raceist crap expoused by treepers 16 months ago.

      He couldn’t say them at trial as there bizzzaro an false.

      But now he can say what the hell he likes about a dead CHILD unable to defend him self

      Remind you off any one attacking a defenceless dead child.

      Anheaping even more pain on the dead Kids Parents because he can an he enjoys it.

      All I know that if there is an afterlife An I sure hope there isn’t.

      But if there is there must be a special place reserved for people like fogaagge casy Anthony O Maniac Omara Skellator an his daughters.
      OJ Simpson an the list goes on Chenney an Bush senior an junior Dr Harold Shipman Fred an Rose West .Peter Sutclife Ian Brady Myra Hindley That crazy Norwegian gut han slimdick an on an on I could blog names for ever of the unjust an depraved souls whom have inhabitated an will Inhabit this planet.

      An although its hard to believe at times truly evil people are in the minority .

      Its the silent majority that allow there passivity there nothing to do with me attitude

      The Im alright Jack fuck yous of the world

      That enable the evil people to thrive an even prosper from there wicked decitfull actions

      Trunk Mom an foggage are perfect examples as wer the RRamseys whom murdered there own Daughter an made a career out of victimhood.

      I tell you none of this crap would get past the start line in the UK with the exception the glareing exception of the Mc Canns whom have expoited the fact that the DAUGHTER MADDIE went missing inverted coomas abroad.

      To hit the press an spin spin spin me right round like a record baby right roun.

      Laws in Gibralter are far more lax re prees an repoting on investigations than in the UK.

      If they had Murdered Maddie in the Uk they would most likely be behind bars by now.

      But there day is comeing sonner than they know.

      Any way in America if you disappear your CHILD you can earn earn earn

      Baby Lisas parents bradleys prospered over her missing status.

      As do many many others an unless the bodys found or even if Billie Dunn an Sean Adkins still get away with murder an get to go on Nancy Grace.

      You got to sort this shit out thease folks are dumb as rocks but even the F B I an elite forces seem unable to break there feeble alibis.

    • Olivia says:

      First 4 results returned on a google search for “Purple Lean”:

      1. ” . . . typically mixed with ingredients such as Sprite soft drink or Mountain Dew and pieces of Jolly Rancher candy.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_drank

      2. ” . . . there is a drug drink made from Arizona Watermelon drink and Skittles candy . . .”
      “Please send this info to every newspaper, everyone needs to know about Lean/Purple Lean/Purple Drank, and the parents especially need to know.”

      http://www.topix.com/forum/state/tx/TG0F35U9S8LVLTJF5

      3. ” . . . mixed in with some sprite.”

      http://www.urbandictionary.co/define.php?term=purple%20drank

      4. “It is mixed with a soda drink like Sprite or Mountain Dew. Jolly Rancher candies may be crushed and added to give it more color and flavor.”

      http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/purple-drank-signs-symptoms.html

    • Malisha says:

      I wish Trayvon Martin had had a loaded gun that evening.

      • type1juve says:

        I do too Malisha. If Trayvon had been all that O’Mara claims he would have busted a cap in Fogen’s fat ass. O’Mara should be careful pushing the envelope on this bs. People are already inflamed about this farce of a trial. He doesn’t need to add fuel to the fire. He needs to quit talking shit if they’re so afraid of death threats.

        • Xena says:

          @type1juve.

          If Trayvon had been all that O’Mara claims he would have busted a cap in Fogen’s fat ass.

          Rachel Jeantel pretty much conveyed that on Piers Morgan; i.e., that Trayvon was not a thug and the haters don’t know what a thug is.

          If GZ had kept in ass in his car, there would be no need for O’Mara to disparage and misrepresent Trayvon.

    • Jasmine says:

      I thought that all codeine did was make you sleepy. Wouldn’t there be a lot of murders in the hospital if codeine made you aggressive? And wouldn’t there be a warning label on Robitussin or coricidin if it caused violent behavior? That combination is just plain ignorant. Last I looked pop doesn’t make you violent and neither do skittles so what is the world are they talking about. If we had any type of investigative journalists they would have debunked all this crap already.

      • Olivia says:

        @jasmine. Exactly. Codeine causes drowsiness. Called “Purple ‘Lean'”, because people who ingest it “lean”.

    • Olivia says:

      “If you do a Google Search for ‘Purple Lean’ or ‘lean drink’ or ‘lean drank’ it is sort of an urban kind of drug. It’s known in some circles as poor man’s ecstasy or something like that,” said O’Mara.”

      A search using O’Mara’s keywords shows that it wasn’t until around May 28, 2012, that Skittles and watermelon drink became ingredients in “Purple Lean” and “Lean Drink”.

      There are hundreds of sites in the first 10 pages of results that have forums or articles about the drink being made with 2 items identical to those Trayvon bought the night Zimmerman murdered him.

      All are dated May 2012 and onward.

      O’Mara/Zimmerman cohort the CTH offered up “proof” that the drink is made with ARIZONA BRAND watermelon drink by linking to a 2006 discussion forum thread about cannabis.

      Truth: ARIZONA BRAND watermelon drink is NOT mentioned anywhere on the 2 pages of that 7 year old thread.

      • Olivia says:

        RE: “If you do a Google Search for ‘Purple Lean’ or ‘lean drink’ or ‘lean drank’ it is sort of an urban kind of drug. It’s known in some circles as poor man’s ecstasy or something like that,” said O’Mara.”

        According to the Center for Substance Abuse Research at the University of Maryland at College Park, the synthetic substance Dextromethorphan is known as “Poor Man’s Ecstasy”.

        “Dextromethorphan (DXM) is a synthetic substance most commonly found in a variety of over-the-counter (OTC) medicines as an antitussive (cough suppressant) and expectorant (an agent that promotes the removal of mucus from the respiratory tract).”

        http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/dxm.asp

      • Olivia says:

        It isn’t coincidence that the hundreds of websites that describe the drink as being made with Skittles and Arizona brand watermelon drink were published beginning in May of 2012.

        May of 2012 is when O’Mara/Zimmerman/Conservative Tree House began their “Purple Lean, Lean Drink, and Lean Drank is made with Skittles and Arizona brand watermelon drink” campaign.

        • Olivia says:

          The lie about Arizona brand watermelon drink being an ingredient in “Purple Lean” appears to have begun May 24, 2012 at the Conservative Tree House.

          On July 27, 2013, a commenter on a amazon.com politics forum combined Skittles and Sierra Mist:

          (®_0) General Disarray says:
          I know Texas has a reputation with the Sprite and cough syrup “drank”, but with “Watermelon Juice” specifically? The Watermelon juice just sounds like a joke. And Skittles? Skittles would take forever to dissolve?

          I’m going to buy a pack of regular Skittles and put them in a glass with Sierra Mist and see what happens, and if it makes pretty colors.

          Gilgamesh Girl says:
          Keep trying.

          Maybe you can single-handedly keep racism alive but the rest of us have moved on into reality. And 2013.

          Gilgamesh Girl says:
          Um…crush up the Skittles first….with your foot…while they’re still wrapped….

          Susan Brown says:
          gilgamesh..
          ..
          skittles dont crush (like jolly ranchers) they squish..

          they have a chewy gummy center…
          they are nothing like the hard candy used to make purple drank

          Gilgamesh Girl says:
          Not a candy fan.

          And I just can’t muster up and more interest in this subject.

          There’s nothing like a good dose of manufactured racism to kill a subject…

          (®_0) General Disarray says:

          SKITTLES theory DEBUNKED!

          I tried dissolving Skittles in lemon lime carbonated soda (Sierra mist). I smashed the Skittles with the bottom of the glass, they do not break apart because they are squishy, tossed them in the soda and they fizzed for awhile (which was cool), but they did not dissolve all the way, at least not under an hour.

          Left a disgusting white film at the top rather quickly, and made the soda cloudy. No experienced user of this codeine cocktail would use Skittles, it would be stupid, and take too much effort and time.

          Susan Brown says:
          told ya.. did they end up gummy as well?

          (®_0) General Disarray says:
          Yeah, the Skittles center ends up as a gummy disc. The white film at the top is very disgusting, makes it look like it has spoiled and gone bad.

    • lurker says:

      The ‘main’ ingredients in purple whatever are not iced tea and candy. That’s like sayng the main ingredients in a tequila sunrise are orange juice and grenadine. If someone actually takes time to research, they will find that skittles are actually street slang for pseudoephedrine cold tablets. Grinding up a handful of these and mixing it with any liquid to make it palatable can get somebody high. That is why pseudoephedrine are not easy to buy, particularly in quantity.

      O’Mara is becoming as much a champion liar as his client.

  11. Elijah says:

    Following. Hell I’m even donating some more tonight. Things look bleak at the moment but I’m telling y’all that’s going to make the coming justice sweeter The criminal trial is over for me. There is a Federal investigation ongoing.

    I know that Frederick & many say it won’t go anywhere, but I know the’yre some forces in the DOJ that would like it to. So when I’m not here learning about the law via the Dunn case I try to create a Hate Crime case with what I know – I do this pretending I’m a DOJ lawyer & I’m pitching my strategy to AG Holder. I have several scenarios that create cover for the heat the DOJ would take…mostly in the late fall early winter. Enjoy the last weekend of July 2013!

  12. Judy75201 says:

    Yes and Yes. Following.

  13. shyloh says:

    Following! 🙂

  14. Jasmine says:

    I think that everyone needs to take a page out of Sybrina’s book and be as graceful as she is. She did not disparage this juror at all. She just stated that Maddy’s reasoning is the why these laws need to be refined or repealed or better defined so that aggressors cannot hide behind this law. If she can do that why can’t we? It was her son that has been murdered daily by the press and our ‘justice’ system. Be angry but stay classy. Fight with poise and honor.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Point well-made.

    • cielo62 says:

      jasmine~ ” Be angry but stay classy. Fight with poise and honor.” Well said. I will take them to heart.

      ________________________________

    • tinytruthseeker says:

      She did not disparage this juror at all. She just stated that Maddy’s reasoning is the why these laws need to be refined or repealed or better defined so that aggressors cannot hide behind this law. If she can do that why can’t we? It was her son that has been murdered daily by the press and our ‘justice’ system. Be angry but stay classy. Fight with poise and honor.

      Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

  15. Two sides to a story says:

    Lots of ‘splodey heads over at the Treestump because B29’s attorney was a prosecutor in GZs 2005 assault case. The plot keeps thickening.

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/07/26/b-29-attorney-david-m-chico/#more-66860

  16. lady2soothe says:

    My take on “breeder” and B29’s Interview(s)

    I know two people I consider “Breeders”

    The first I met 31 years ago when I was in my late 20’s she was barely15. She got pregnant and chose the father’s mother to raise her daughter. HOWEVER, she went on to have 5 more children and with each new pregnancy from a different boyfriend she gave the child away to friends, NOT sold but gave away. When asked “why?” her response is “I like being pregnant” I consider her a “Provisional Breeder”

    The second is my deceased step-mom’s granddaughter. She’s a “Professional Breeder” registered with an agency as a Gestational Surrogate. She’s married; they have 2 young boys from their joint union. She’s on her second surrogacy pregnancy, the 1st to purchase a vehicle, and this new pregnancy to cover the down payment on a house.

    I’m sure there are some who have considered me a *breeder* because of my 5 children, however what many didn’t realize my husband’s 2 children from his past came with him into the relationship, joining my 2 children and the 5th was a joint effort… I used to joke, “He has 3 kids and I have 3 kids, but there are only 5 children.”

    I do not care how many children B29 has or how she arrived at the number. Whether her kids are from different fathers, a joint union with a single father, multiple births, adoption, foster care, younger brothers and/or sisters, nieces, nephews or any combine of such. Nor does her family situation bear her being called out a name based on the amount of children she has.

    Do I think B29 was solely responsible for allowing GZ to walk? Absolutely not. I believe it was a combined effort of O’Mara’s filth spilled to the media, Jr’s and the Z’s Family’s BS, the prosecutors’ inability to prosecute effectively, Angela Corey, Judge Nelson, the law as was manipulated, explained or not explained, being bullied, intimidated, coerced and whatever else you want to throw in.

    However I do take exception as stated in prior posts: I feel B29 used the “they made me do it” escape route to alleviate admitting she caved to intimidation. I have no doubt she was bullied and pressured but considering she admitted “I was the loudest juror” it was up to her to stand her ground by voicing her objections *loud* enough to at least hang the jury. If she felt so threatened she should have let the court know she was being manipulated. I’m sure no one was covering her mouth or had her handcuffed to a chair. There was a guard standing outside the jury room, therefore screaming for help was an available option as was slamming her hand on the door to make known she was in need of assistance. At the very least, she could have agreed and when polled by Nelson could have easily stated the situation and voted “NO” in the courtroom.

    Juror B29 needs to take responsibility and be held accountable for her decision, own it and live with the consequences of her submissiveness. Her conscious has gotten the best of her and she’s looking for sympathizers to help justify her compromise of justice and convince the viewing audience it wasn’t her fault. IMHO she’s a coward who didn’t exercise her rights to freedom of speech or the right to agree or disagree and is looking for vindication for her not guilty vote.

    Juror B29’s added “I’m hurting just as much as Trayvon’s mother” is an insult to every woman (including myself) who has ever lost a child.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      She really should have said she’s hurting a lot for Trayvon’s mother. Clumsy statement.

      • lady2soothe says:

        Two sides to a story

        Agree. That would have been appropriate and respectful.

      • Malisha says:

        She COULD have said she wanted to apologize to Trayvon’s mother. AT LEAST!

        I am hoping that out of her eight kids, ONE of them starts to wonder about all this and starts to make his or her own appraisal of how to figure the world out.

    • type1juve says:

      Bravo! You have clearly pointed out the issues that some of us have with this juror.

    • antropy says:

      I agree completely about B29’s using “they made me do it” as an excuse. She could have just said to the other jurors, “I can’t think clearly about the case anymore with all this hostility and intimidation directed at me, so I’m just going to stick with my initial opinion (guilty of M2). If you’re unwilling or unable to stop bullying me, then we’ll simply have to tell the judge we’ve got a hung jury- and if she doesn’t like it, then she’ll have to do something to get you to stop your bullying.” Or, she could have tried to let the judge know that she couldn’t function properly with all the bullying directed at her. In other words, she could have just “shut down” and said “I can’t take this;” it probably would have made her feel a lot better to vent in this way than to cave to the others and keep her frustrations bottled up. Or failing that, she could have spoken up when the jury was polled after delivering the verdict. Yet she waited to express her regrets and frustration until after they could no longer make a difference– a sorry conclusion to a process that was sorry in so many ways, and on so many levels.

  17. Two sides to a story says:

    I’m proofreading a textbook and gathering the vocab words into an Excel doc today:

    Machiavellianism refers to a tendency to direct one’s behavior toward the acquisition of power and the manipulation of other people for personal gain.

    Sound like anyone we know? : /

  18. chills101 says:

    Ima roll till the wheels fall off.

  19. dianetrotter says:

    Professor, I would like to suggest that we, individually, ignore comments of those who wish to attack our points of view.

    It takes two to argue. Arguing doesn’t change anyone’s point of view. What we do could have a negative impact on the blog you work so hard to offer as a source of integrity.

  20. KateW says:

    That is one of the things I don’t understand about juror B29, if you are saying someone is guilty of murder then how do you not find the person not guilty? It is simple, either he killed the boy or he didn’t, at the very least manslaughter.

    THE LAW IS A GUIDELINE NOT ANYTHING CONCRETE OR WRITTEN IN STONE. Like BDLR said USE YOUR COMMON SENSE!!! If her common sense is telling her he is guilty after looking over all the evidence then HE IS GUILTY. Now I don’t agree with the name calling but she really screwed Trayvon Martin, she screwed the Martin family from a just verdict.

    The other thing I wanted to ask is why Mary Cutcher and Selma Lamilla did not testify?? What happened to those 2??

    • concernedczen says:

      Yes, it seemed like the jurors from what we have heard ignored A LOT of evidence.

      I also do not understand how any rational person could conclude that Zimmerman was in fear for his life.

      • colin black says:

        Another type irrational personalty whom confrontrd by a blahk youth in the dark.
        Wearing warrior jeans would cry mercy me an go into a feined dead feint an hope to be ravaged.

      • anita says:

        No rational person could EVER conclude scum fogen was in fear for his life. What a joke that it could possibly have been the person with the gun screaming, especially when the screaming abruptly stopped with the shot. I tho’t these facts were huge, but apparently not with B37. It’s been 2 weeks & every time I think of that woman on AC360 I am still furious.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’m sure the prosecution breezed over those two because they’d had so much media exposure. The defense would have skewered them for it.

      • KateW says:

        Media coverage doesn’t diminish what they saw or heard. I mean the crooked lawyer was in the media daily at every turn he could get.

  21. 7score says:

    I am a relative newcomer and will definitely continue to follow. The center is and will continue to be strong enough to hold!

    Professor, I agree — yesterday, everything came unglued. Passion is what we need, but we cannot let passion and this medium’s thin veil of anonymity give us the right to be disrespectful.

    In my opinion — the prosecutors failed Trayvon, his family, us and the jurors. The jurors should have been able to recite the prosecutors’ version of what happened that night.

    Initially b29 and two other jurors thought gz was guilty of either manslaughter or murder. If the prosecutors had stressed this alternative narrative, they would have recited – gz grabbed, twisted and held Trayvon’s wrist with one hand, while he reach for his ‘firearm’ with his other hand. He then very carefully took aim at the center of Trayvon’s heart and “intentionally” pulled the trigger. Again, he very carefully took aim at the center of Trayvon’s heart and “intentionally” pulled the trigger. Again, he very carefully took aim at the center of Trayvon’s heart and “intentionally” pulled the trigger.

    Would this have resulted in a guilty verdict? I don’t know. But, I firmly believe we would now be debating the merits of a retrial.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      I firmly believe that we should be talking about a retrial because the whole trial was a miscarriage of justice.

      • colin black says:

        You cant no farcical the outcome.

        In America a not guilty is written in stone.

        Because of double jeapordy.

        The fat foll foggage could write a book go on after dinner tours an admtt he murdered Trayvon an could not be tried again.

        Only guilty verdicts can be overturned an retried as double jeapordy doesn’t apply.

    • Olivia says:

      “He then very carefully took aim at the center of Trayvon’s heart and “intentionally” pulled the trigger.”

      I don’t recall Corey’s team getting that important fact out.

      • Elizabeth says:

        Mantei did but it was at the motion for aquittal.
        after 40 minutes of rambling from mom.

      • 7score says:

        During the trial, the prosecution played the 2/29/12 audio of Serino interviewing gz. gz stated that he was able to overpower Trayvon by gaining wrist control of him. Once he gained wrist control, he said he “grabbed his firearm and shot him”. They also played the reenactment video — gz said he pulled out his firearm and shot him. Per gz’s written statement: …I unholstered my firearm …and fired one shot into his torso. And we heard the ME’s testimony.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Nor did the prosecution explain what it meant that the holes in the clothing were displaced 4 to 5 inches from the wound in the body. The can of tea could have only pulled on the hoodie, not the tee shirt. gz had to have been pulling on Trayvon’s shirt and hoodie with one hand, while he drew, aimed and fired his gun with the other. That’s not something one can or would do while being in fear for their life.

        The whole world knows that the prosecution did not put on it’s best case! They now know that the jurors were left in a state of sheer confusion… and yet, this sham trial which ended in a faulty verdict, will stand. A murderer has been set free to kill again.

    • commenting says:

      But that is not what happened, Trayvon did not sre gz’s gun therfore he did not reach for any gun….therefore gz did not twist Trayvon’s hand…that’s all a lie, a fabricated story…if trayvon saw that gun, it was already too late, I believe trayvon was retreating when he got shot….you think trayvon would allow gz to grab that gun and twist his hand if he reached for the gun???

      • 7score says:

        Was gz’s head repeatedly banged on concrete? No. Was his nose broken? No. Did we hear heart wrenching screams prior to hearing the gunshot? Yes. Why do we scream? We are usually either in excruciating pain or experiencing horrifying fear.

        Much of gz’s version cannot be believed, but we actually hear the screams on the 911 call. One scream was made by the teenage boy, because gz was twisting his wrist in a non-natural way. This grappling technique usually tears ligaments and can even break bones. The pain is excruciating. So, I do think this portion of gz’s story is true. Trayvon was probably trying to “pull away” when he saw the gun and we hear on the 911 call the final horrifying, death scream.

        I believe that either the jurors or one of their children have experienced the type of pain caused by a twisted arm, torn ligament or broken bone. That’s why I think they would have leaned towards believing the wrist control pain is why Trayvon, not gz, was screaming. I know Trayvon did not go after his gun, but the final scream is when Trayvon saw the gun in gz’s hand, his finger on the trigger and the gun pointed at his heart.

        I know these discussions cannot reverse the verdict, but we all grieve in our own way. “What ifs” help me cope.

        • commenting says:

          Nah……I don’t think so…..the screaming sarted long before the wrist twisting claim…..

          • 7score says:

            hi commenting,
            I just listened to the 911 call again. We do hear cries for help and some other sounds during the beginning of the call, but at :36 we hear the first heart wrenching scream and then we hear the death scream just before the gunshot at :41.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Rachel didn’t hear any screams, but she heard the start of the confrontation. There was a gap of only 31 seconds from Rachel’s call drop until 911 picks up.

            Something pretty darn dramatic had to have happened, almost immediately when Rachel’s call dropped, because it takes just about 31 seconds for 911 calls to go through. Meaning that, the 911 caller had to start dialing, almost immediately when Rachel’s call dropped.

            So the real question is what did she hear? She, obviously didn’t want to tell anyone. But, whatever it was, it immediately told her there was serious trouble going on outside.

        • commenting says:

          Please listen to the last 4 cries fir help….there is a HEEEEEEEELP ME, then a short HElp immediately after, then another HEEEEELLLLLP ME, then again another short HELP , which ends a SECOND before the gun shot……………that is 2 different people screaming……the long HEEEEEEEEELP ME and the short help comes from 2 differnt people………….there is no way one person is able to scream so quickly after that long cry for help/HEEEEEEELP ME….While that person catches their breath to scream again, the other person screams a short HELP………..

      • chills101 says:

        Yes I do. He was only a kid. Fogen had control of the situation. Trayvon was begging and pleading for his life. To think about it, why they Neva took his truck and question Shellie bout where she took the truck from. She should be charged with tampering with evidence. Her and the cop friend but the cops did everything that night wrong. Everyone of them should be investigated. Well investigated if they were trying to get to the truth. They probably have something on Serino cuz he looked like a broke down slave. Someday somebody is going to come clean. What’s done in the dark will come to light. My grandma would always say that.

  22. ZCBest says:

    ………follow the leader…i am back.

  23. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    B29 admitted to the fact, that gz was guilty and got away with murder, yet instead of having the courage to take a stand, she let the other jurors pressure her into a not guilty verdict. Well, she has to live with that for the rest of her life. I feel no pity for her, none, nothing, zero, minus, nada! As far as I am concerned she did nothing in that interview but rub it in Sybrina and Tracy’s face that yeah, gz killed your son and is guilty, but we let him go.

  24. colin black says:

    colin black says:

    July 27, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Yes he learned that killing an UNARMED CHILD IN MERICA.

    Makes a nonentity loser into9 an overnight media sensation.

    That strangers send you money lots off them an lots off it.

    He learned you can blurt out any old ballyhoo about what ocoured because you shoot the only person whom can tell the TRUTH.

    You learn once again as you have often suspected you are a Teflon con an not above the law .

    But some how excempt not only that.

    You learned that Murdering an unarmed CHILD SEEING THE FEAR AN TERROR FELT GOOD.
    An you learned you could turn away an no longer bother to look at the face of an innocent child dead fish eyes leakling a single tear.

    An not even registar.

    You dintnt need to learn to lie on the spot as it was a skill you had for a long time.

    An you didn’t even have to be good just be respetfull yes mam no mam three bags fell mam.

    No sir in soft tones quite almost whisper.

    He learned even a flent liar of impossible lies can prevail in domestic violence .

    She attacked me>
    Probably sexuall abuse an incest as well.

    foggages version would be thus.
    She attacked my weiner first an I didn’t know what her deal was
    It felt like she was up to something real good.

    His bar le felony attacking a A T F underage officer .

    Was the same didn’t id himself he attacked my friend an me first was only defending myelf.

    An on an on he goes what ever screw up he blames it on the other party.

    All would be hunk dory in foggages world if althrse family members girlfriend random strangers would only stop attacking him.

    An threating his presious shelie.

    Landlord spots him for unpaid ren t foggage straight out with the cell phone.

    Thers a real suspious guy asking me to open my wallet in aisle 4.

    If you don’t want to attrnnd to a clean up on aisle 4 I suggest you tell this up to goog guy what the deal is?

    Yup my name zimmmerrmmmann
    You got shit I don’t want to give my address out as he is standing right in front of me.

    By the serials Special K im pushing a trolley with 16 bucks worth of weekly groceries.

    He looks kind of red in the face.
    Yup he is a red in the face turning purple kinnda looks like my landlord.

    Now he stoped telling me to get my checking account open an give him some RENT

    SHIT he running

    Towards the back exit check outs .

    You take a left at tinned good past fresh produce down the dairy isle.

    An you will see my shopping trolley.

    An if you send an officer to the car park you will see the PURPLE FACED DUDE.

    Skipping along definitely not running away from me out of anger an frushtation

    Fucking phunks old coots thease landlords crdit card companys car finance always trying to stop you getting away.

    With not paying them.

    Reply

    Imust have missed that admitadly I came into comments when it had already kicked off,,

    But I read all the comments replied to a few but senced no unravelling.

    People will disagree that’s normal proceadure in life.
    Its healthy an promotes dialogue an yes also snark fests can ensue

    Egos can be bruised an people over react to some covert or overt or imagined slight.

    The fact that people can be at polar opposites on regards moeals perpitude.

    The way we view the same event or occurance an yet have different attudes to the out come is good.

    I no tensions were high but no one was attempting to go salem witch trial on this b29 jurours ass from my interpitation.

    Sure people were pissed at her Im among them .
    How could one not be offended buy her putting her pain on a par with Trayvons Mom ?That’s crass tasteless an a break from reality as was her attempt to justify allowing a person she believed shot an murdered a child free.

    I M O She should have remained silent as she did in the jury room when she concurred with the killers release.

    If anyone thinks she an she alone is to blame well that’s farsical she is an example of the degenerates we let sit on the jury,

    An I don’t mean she is a degenerate as a person .
    But her mental process an cognitive skills obviously are
    An I M O someone like her should be weeded out an excepted from the jury pole long before even voir dire.

    We need Special cosientious trust worthy educimated types on the jury.
    Not Special inverted commas type people.Nor people that think there special an of a superior social standing an expect jurour b29 to get her coffee an turn down fresh laundered sheets eygyptian cotton every night.

    Do I respect b29 NO do I hate her no .
    Do I sympathise with her current plight no .

    Its a sef inflicted wound from a self seveing hypocrite whom knows she screwed up but wont take responceability.

    Do I wish her bad luck harm vengeance is nigh.

    Of course not I don’t HATE anyone not even the fogagge one.

    I loathe an despise his actions but he is just one of many feckless hatefull individualll on this planet.

    I hate none of them hate is there gig .

    Hate eats you up an destroys you from the inside
    Hate is a pwerfull an strong emotion on a par with Love.

    An I decided long ago that hate was a wastefull emotion to expound or hold against anyone.

    People I know whom have done things that would raise hatefull emotions in most or some people.

    Like water of a ducks arse to me.
    Think about it these are people that have shown contept and or even hate towards ME for no appernt reason I could chomprehend..goodlooks?

    Why would I waste one iota of brain time let alone stong emotions on them

    Im glad when someone Ive known exposes them selfs in there true light .
    In stead of anger at the slight or betrayal useally money borrowed an never repaid.

    I rejoice an think of all the time its saved me in the future of possible time spent with some one whom obviously thinks Im a fool or expendable as a resourse.

    Great good to know an move on.

    An as to Strangers like Hitler Stalin Khymer Rouge ect Jim Jones.

    Jack the ripper ect .

    Like wise whilst not condoneing there actions I don’t hate them.
    An foggage is just another abstact stranger to me like the stoopis jurours an residents at the retreat.

    Hate none of them as in my opinion people with hate in there soul to dish out will nillly.

    People like foggage Dunn R Bundy ect people with hate a plenty hate no one more than the person they see In the mirror.

  25. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    I don’t buy B37 or B29’s excuses. In my opinion, both are trying to figure out a way to sleep at night for letting an innocent child’s murderer go free, and I’m sorry, but I am not gonna give them any help with that.

    I knew something wasn’t right when JN refused to let the audio specialist in, but let the defense parade people who were obviously lying to testify in behalf of Zimmerman whose voice it was. The uncle’s lie was so obvious, until I had to laugh at him. In addition, the so-called best expert in the world was making up stuff as he went and you could see it in his lying eyes. I’ve said this more than once and I’ll say it again, the prosecutors told the jurors to use their common sense, and the defense told them to leave their common sense out. Well, we know which one they chose. That’s the bottom line.

    I’m sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who hurt or harm children in any type of way, nor do I have any for those who help justify it and dismiss it as that child’s own fault. If I stand alone in my thoughts and feelings, so be it!

  26. Trayvon Martin’s parents to join National Bar for news conference

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-trayvon-martin-parents-news-conference-20130727,0,6440417.story

    The National Bar Association will hold a news conference Monday in South Florida to discuss legal issues surrounding the George Zimmerman trial and the implications of the stand-your-ground law.

    Trayvon Martin’s parents, along with their attorney, Benjamin Crump, association President John E. Page and religious leaders will attend the news conference.

    It will begin at 9:30 a.m. at the Fontainebleau hotel in Miami Beach.

    The National Bar Association blasted the not-guilty verdict in Zimmerman’s case in a previous statement.

    “We are extremely disappointed by the verdict in the case of State of Florida v. George Zimmerman. As lawyers we respect the rule of law, but in this instance the Zimmerman verdict sadly highlights the continued injustices Black Americans face in the U.S. legal system,” a NBA statement said after the July 13 verdict in Sanford.

    The association is the nation’s oldest and largest association of African American lawyers and judges.

    The news conference will be held during the organization’s 88th annual convention.

    Six Seminole County residents returned a not-guilty verdict in Zimmerman’s murder trial on July 13, setting off protests and calls for criminal-justice reforms across the country.

    Prosecutors accused Zimmerman of profiling, pursuing and killing Trayvon in Sanford on Feb. 26, 2012.

    Zimmerman, then a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, said he shot Trayvon in self-defense after the unarmed Miami Gardens teen attacked him.

    “The verdict,” Page said in a statement. “says an unarmed college-bound Black teen can be profiled, stalked, confronted and killed by an armed neighborhood watchman with hollow tip point bullets. We express our heartfelt condolences to Trayvon Martin’s family on this tragic verdict. We also say ‘Enough is Enough – It is NOT OK to kill our youth’.”

  27. Professor, thank you for this blog and the attention you dedicate to preserving the values upon which our country was built. I have learned a lot here. If I am ever called to Jury Duty, I know now what to watch for, what to guard against, and how to make sure that Justice is served!

  28. sparger says:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/26/george-zimmerman-civil-lawsuit_n_3659826.html?utm_hp_ref=black-voices&ir=Black%20Voices

    Robert sent an email to the Huffington Post about a civil suit. Has no one told him to shut his mouth. Oh the irony of saying a civil suit wouldn’t flatter the Martins. What would it do to his idiot brother and the rest of his family.

    • jm says:

      That e-mail sounds like back-handed blackmail by RZ, Jr.

      I can’t stand the whole Zimmerman family.

    • type1juve says:

      A civil suit may be the only justice the Martin/Fulton family gets out of this travesty. I hope they sue the eff out of Fogen!

  29. Romaine says:

    My take is OUR and I mean all races ancestors had many children. My Great Grand parents had at least nine children, I often make jokes that it was because they had no TV. I myself have 9 grand children that I love dearly and spend most of my time with; 6 of them are natural from my son and his wife, two adopted, and one from my daughter. none of my grand’s are on public assistance. NOW do I believe my son and his wife are breeders. NO, not at all; Yet I do understand that not all Humans agree with abortion, the taking of life regardless of how that life is taken; i.e. birth control, the over night pill ect. There is a decision made when bringing life into this world, sometimes it works out and sometimes it gets all messed up. I raised my children as a single parent my choice; just like any other parent who decides to have a child via artificial insemination, adoption, temporary custody while assisting a loved one through lifes struggles, foster care. IMO anything is better than discarding a child in the trash can.
    I provided the definition because it states that the term is used in a racist way, based on :
    Swift’s piece was meant as black humor, and refers to the breeding of children for cannibalism. Some parents resent being referred to as “breeders”, and feel that the word unduly reduces the process of child-raising to animal husbandry.[2]
    The term was part of a 2006 controversy in the heavily gay resort town of Provincetown, Massachusetts, when petitioners against same-sex marriage whose identity was published complained of having been called “breeders”. SFGate described the term as “a joking or derogatory slur used by gays to describe heterosexuals”.[3]
    Similarly, the term “welfare breeder” is colloquially and pejoratively used to refer to a person who is suspected of having children in order to obtain government resources, similar to the term welfare queen.[4]
    Buga is the similar term in Spanish.
    No calls Angelina Jolie a BREEDER, or KATE plus eight a BREEDER, or the other woman with 12 plus children a BREEDER, so why this juror.
    This case has been about a child and the lose of his life, to judge this woman for bringing many young lives into this world is just wrong.
    Her children as well as their mom deserves the same respect of LIFE. She made a horrible misjudgement in her decision of the verdict, I can’t agree and say she made a horrible decision to give life to her children.
    IMO this is what is being stated when she called a BREEDER.
    If you take the full context of the definition i provided, then you will understand that the Government decided how many childern a family should have, why they should have the number of children allowed, and the purpose those children would serve.
    So to me B29 is a Parent, Mother, and a Human Being.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      Your ancestors had 9 children, mine had nothing under 15, and one of my great-great-great grandmothers had 25 children.

      • Romaine says:

        lol wooow

      • cielo62 says:

        granny~ But in our MODERN WORLD, that is seen as cruel and ridiculous. We don’t live on farms or ranches anymore; why would you want that many kids around? THAT is the current thinking in a world already overpopulated, underfed and hideously uneducated. I teach in a high poverty area and I SEE THIS EVERY DAY. Catholic families having broods of kids that they can’t afford to feed, so they get public assistance. OR they work several jobs and never are home to help the kids do their homework or encourage them or guide them. I see good kids brought up in horrible conditions thanks to the pro-life, anti- birth control tyranny that is the catholic church. That is the experience I bring to this discussion. Yes, there IS such as thing as having too many kids. I can’t say what the cut-off is, because it’s different for each situation. But don’t deny it; having children is a HUGE responsibility and a huge burden.

        ________________________________

        • dianetrotter says:

          I talk to my students about getting pregnant not knowing if they will be able to take care of them and in the most temporary of relationships – baby mama/baby daddy. I see the result in the school system – kids in foster homes, in homes with drug addicted parents or parents dead or in jail, etc. I help them to think years ahead. It must be helping some because my most advanced class no longer has 2/3 pregnancies at the end of the year. Hollywood glories this (kanye/kim, etc.). They have the money to take care of their kids and many of the kids still end up a complete mess. I tell them but am also there to mentor them. Many say I remind them of their grandma. Problems should be addressed from all sides.

  30. deetruth says:

    I’ve read and enjoyed this blog for a long time, but only recently started to comment. Yesterday’s conversation about B29 was a bridge too far for me. I made some comments stating my concern about how she was attacked – her number of children, her education, her intelligence, etc. I too wished she’d had a better understanding of the instructions and the law and that she’d been able to stand her ground. But it never occurred to me to put the entire burden of this verdict on the ONLY juror closest to what I consider the right verdict, while, what (?), excusing/forgiving the other five for their non-guilty verdicts with no criticism what-so-ever????? Is that what people on this thread were saying? Actually, I was shocked at how so many people went after her on a personal level. I had to step away from the conversation.

    I will continue to read Mr. Leatherman’s well written and very educational pieces, but I don’t think I belong in these discussions. So I’m going to butt out.

  31. Endless Summer says:

    Professor, thank you for this post. I also believe that most of the strife seen in the comments here comes from the hurt and anger we have all felt over this case.

    Currently the Dream Defenders are occupying the Florida Capitol in Tallahassee: http://dreamdefenders.org/

    You can follow the live feed from their home page. If you cannot be an activist, you can support their activism in various ways. We can overturn this law if we join together.

    • chills101 says:

      I dnt think the law has anything to do with what happen. If it was a white kid killed by a white man, he would have been in jail since that night. Black people cant get a fair shake in these court rooms. All these people saw was a dead black kid. He had to do something wrong that night. Them D. A’s put people like Trayvon away everyday and we expected them to fight for him. That’s where we went wrong. The system is made to work exactly how it work. Only for who they want it to work for. Our justice system is a Big Joke. How often do cops get off murder charges? I wonder how those black cops feel in Sanford. I wonder where is the people that had bad run-ins with fogen. Only his cousin!?

      • Malisha says:

        FOR SURE lots of people have had run-ins with Fogen. That is the reason he staged his little “bring in a thug” action for 2/26/2012 together with Tim Smith.

        TIM SMITH DIRTY COP
        TIM SMITH DIRTY COP

        (That felt good)

        He had complaints being called in about him in RTL. Ibrahim Rashada and his wife had given an interview to a journalist in which he said that Black homeowners in RTL were scared of Fogen because he was running patrols on them with a loaded gun. Rashada (25, Black) would drive downtown to stretch his legs because “I don’t want to be chased.”

        And I think Fogen is headed for bigger trouble and when he finds it, LOTS more trouble is going to result, maybe even more trouble than people like Corey and BDLR and Lee and Serino can handle.

      • lurker says:

        I have lately started to think about what it would look like if gz (or Michael Dunn) were black. Then this killing might be labelled a turf war (think about it). And Dunn killed because someone dissed him.

        Those kinds of explanations are tossed off daily with a shake of the head or a tsk, tsk in black on black killings. Seems they really apply here.

    • tinytruthseeker says:

      My family is sending up items from their wishlist….
      For anyone wishing to take part here is the link to the list

      http://www.wishlistr.com/dreamdefenders

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @tinytruthseeker

        thank you for that link … my family sends regular care packages to our soldiers over seas (whether we agree with stupid wars or not) and we always have a steady stock of many of these items lying around. i will get a nice box of to these foot soldiers as well since i’m 3k miles away and not able to do what they are doing. thank you.

        • tinytruthseeker says:

          Thank you Thank you faux!!!! I have been too sick to go “sit in” but my older sister is going to hand carry my parcel to them when it arrives this week in Tallahassee! I know EVERY little bit helps! BLESS YOU!!!
          xoxoox ~Tiny

  32. a2nite says:

    Please remember, that many people are very angry and need someplace to place their anger. That is what you are seeing. The entire episode is evil rotten bigoted GZ’s fault. He was aided and abetted by the police, the states attorney, the bigoted criminal injustice system. This just reminds us that the evil white supremacist power structure thinks that we (people of African) descent are nothing.

    The system doesn’t work. It is unfortunate that so many people don’t see things the way POC and this one black woman do.

    We need less conversations and more changing of the criminal injustice system which includes stopping the racial profiling of young black men would help.

    It actually might have been better to not bring the case to trial at all. The jury was tainted, with poor forensic evidence, with poorly prepared prosecution witnesses, with the rotten bigoted police were on GZ’s side, with his defense having had over a year to poison a bigoted jury pool, with GZ having had a year to raise money from white supremacists and gun nuts.

    I’m more angry at B37. She had an agenda.
    I’m more angry with the RW bigoted MSM for smearing Trayvon Martin.
    I am more angry at a system that thinks it has served by letting a killer go free.

    There is something wrong with the law.

    There is something wrong with us.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      I’m angry with B37 and B29 and B29 because she did not have the guts to stand up to bigoted pressure. I believe B37 was the ringleader in deciding the decision. I can just hear her now, “Well, my husbands an attorney and I know a little bit about the law. None of these laws apply to this situation.”

      Far as I’m concerned, the defense, prosecution, judge, and jurors have blood on their hands.

      • anita says:

        ~Granny I can almost hear b37 too. She absolutely had to be the ringleader. If I knew her personally,I would despise her. She thinks she is so smart, when in fact she is just a stupid racist. I hope we can hear more of what took place during those 16 hrs.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I’ve been gone for a while, computer crashed, wiped out my network adapter, so I couldn’t connect. I also lost all my email contacts, so now I’m writing them down on index cards. Oh well.

        gz was last seen in Texas, where he was stopped for speeding with a gun in his car. Guess he likes Texas for his new hunting ground, plenty of “Sundown” towns for him to choose from, where he probably won’t get a littering citation for killing young blacks. Under “SYG”, of course, we all know how fearful he is of the people he hunts for.

        • jm says:

          It appears Zimmerman does not adhere to the law in any matter. You would think he would want to keep a low profile wouldn’t you? What a jerk.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Speeding is normal in Texas, I think what got him pulled over was his out of state plates. Now that I’ve seen him in Texas, it confirms even more that the killing was an initiation. That’s what it takes to join the AB (Aryan Brotherhood). Justice brought new charges against 35 of the leadership, most of whom are already in jail in Texas and run their empire from there. They have massive drug and money laundering operations, but people on the money side of their operations are kept squeeky clean, they have to be, or risk out right seizure of their funds. So, perhaps that’s where the backers fortune comes from.

            In any event, I expect the AB will have to give gz another assignment. Justice had hoped to put these 35 members to death, but failed, they only won some 10 or 12 death sentences. gz’s new assignments if any, will probably be just to ferry drugs or money around. They know he’s not to be trusted with a real hit since he’s really just a coward.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ I believe we were the only 2 who considered an “initiation” as the motive for this murder. What confuses me is that I just don’t think gz is “white enough” for the Aryan Brotherhood. UNLESS all they’re looking for are front line, expendable punks, well, they picked the right guy. But are there other white supremacist groups that might… fudge… the line a little? I mean, idiot that zimmy is, he went around proclaiming his latino-ness, which is ANOTHER group white supremacist groups hate with a passion. Maybe a cartel? This is one detail I don’t think we’ll ever learn for sure. But I STILL agree with you; initiation rite all the way. Bungled, mangled and pooch-screwed, but still got 6 racist bitches to acquit him. 

            ________________________________

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            We have to remember that the AB doesn’t research a prospective members family tree, they simply take the word of the person for their race and that plus their appearance and fervor clinches it.

            Also the AB has taken in Black and Hispanic members, so that it can portray itself as non-race based. Something that very often comes in handy when such denials are needed.

            Also they value people like gz who are outside prison walls, since they need people to do things for them, in furtherance of their criminal enterprises. I think that for starters gz makes a good recruiting tool for them, so they’d probably want him to appear at their various social gatherings from Florida to Texas and beyond.
            Now he is a “somebody” but someone whom only the Aryan Brotherhood has any use for.

            By the way gz handles himself, I suspect that relationship will come a cropper and soon. gz is toxic and he makes enemies fairly quickly.

  33. ay2z says:

    Prof, the center is solid. Maybe what we need is a quiet ‘garden’, where there is no posting, but a choice of quiet interludes like this one, openness, respect, and introspection. Centering.

  34. ay2z says:

    How much was interpretation of the law, by other jurors, an influence on individual choices? Who told b29 that to find the admitted killer guilty of manslaughter, he would have had to have ‘intend to leave his house and kill Trayvon’ that night.

    They did not go through evidence from beginning to end, tthey used pieces and bits to support what they believed coming into the deliberation room, including enough to decide Trayvon made bad choices and they failed to recognize the concept of ‘self-serving’ statements and the value they placed on those as proof of innocence.

  35. ay2z says:

    In the end, B28 explained that whatever the law, it doesn’t really matter in the end because God will take care of it in time.

    I don’t know if she intended to toss the law aside, seems not, but this is exactly what some people want, to get on a jury and decide for themselves, what is right and what is wrong.

    Isn’t a juror giveing over to ‘God will judge’, doing the same thing?

    • ay2z says:

      apologies for typing, I did type b29, but you know, keyboard critters played pick-up-sticks with all the keys overnight– 😉

    • When they wish God to be the 13th juror, or in this case the 7th juror, they are not accepting full responsibility for the decision they make.

      • concernedczen says:

        So true.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        I didn’t hear this juror say she was negating HER responsibility…. I heard her say she went home and hit her knees…. and in an interview when asked how she responds to the sentiment “George Zimmerman Got Away with Murder”….she took her time…. and she gave HER truth…. NOT HER TRUTH AS A JUROR…. her truth as a Christian…. a woman who was 2 weeks past that verdict… she said…. “George Zimmerman Got Away with Murder…. but not to God”….

        It really REALLY upsets me at so many people who THINK they would have DONE SO MUCH BETTER…. Public speaking is one of the MOST terrifying experiences in life… you think they gave her a script to study????
        I give up…. I hope NONE of you who have the kind of burden she carried are EVER in a position to get on NATIONAL TV and perform in a way that will make EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY PERSON happy with EVERY FREAKING WORD YOU SAY…..
        What a sad judgmental pile of people so many turned out to be….

        • cielo62 says:

          Says the little angel judging us. Be real; she let a murderer go free. How can you condone that? You don’t, can’t or refuse to see that our scorn is our way of protesting that she failed in the deliberation room, where it counted. I don’t care what she said on TV. That is irrelevant. It’s that she claims she was a hold out but couldn’t last more than 16 hours? My question to YOU, is WHY do you think juror B29 deserves any sympathy? Bernie got none. Corey got none, b37 got none. What makes this failure any better?

          FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            Keep your personal attacks to yourself…. they have NO place here…. I didn’t call YOU names…. and who the hell are you to characterize me as an ANGEL or anything else????

            I DIDN’T judge or bully Bernie, Corey, B37, The Judge or ANYBODY else in this case…. I keep my disdain and DISGUST for the MURDERER…. who is the ONE person responsible for Trayvon being in the ground DEAD….

            Your DETERMINATION to personally attack MY opinions about this woman speaks VOLUMES louder about YOU than about ME!

            But you go ahead showing your ASS…. I am

          • cielo62 says:

            Timytrurhseeker- and you didn’t answer the question in your vicious attack on me. Your avatar is an angel, hence my barb. I never said gz shouldn’t be the center if our attention. But WHY? Why cut B29 any slack at all? She had a duty and failed. Her failure has done more than just release a killer. She has opened the season in killing black kids. You are OK with this?

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            “She has opened the season in killing black kids.”

            THOSE ARE YOUR OPINIONS…..
            And you are welcome to them…. I don’t believe that B29 has declared open season on killing Black Kids….
            I don’t see her the way YOU do….
            I see her as a “possible” asset…. someone who with the right support could BLOW this deliberation process out of the water…. but based on all she is reading and hearing and seeing right now…. why the hell would she even want to?
            I don’t see the end game here…. not from your perspective….
            I want to see PROGRESS…. NOT MORE HATE….
            In MY opinion we NEED Maddy….. we NEED her to tell the TRUTH about who “read her the law”
            We NEED her to tell us just how those last few hours went…. that “working” dinner…. etc….
            I may not be a mother, or a grandmother, or a teacher…. but what I AM is a student who goes to school EVERYDAY with boys who look like Trayvon, with girls who DATE boys who look like Trayvon…..I want there to be SOLUTIONS…. not MORE HATE…..

          • cielo62 says:

            And if Maddy “spilled the beans”, 1 how would we know she told the truth and 2. It’s too late! The case is over! A mistrial cannot be pursued! From now on, any juror can refuse to do their duty, cry about being bullied, and they never face consequences. There are consequences. Consequences MUST part of the public discussion. Maddy cannot help now. She did not say that she opened season on killing black kids; she SHOWED IT. Now there is a method to get away with murder, even if evidence is irrefutable. My responsibility, as a member of society, MUST be to hold such people responsible for the part they play. Maybe she’s a sorry pathetic person, feeling remorse now and guilty. But her ACTIONS must never be condoned.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            Well…according to your way of thinking I guess we will NEVER KNOW what kind of assistance she can be in the future…. Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton want CHANGE….. Maddy COULD be part of that change,,,, I’m going to fasten myself to THEIR dream…..

            I know one thing for sure…. with people like you ready to lump her in with the man who pulled the trigger and is responsible for Trayvon’s murder…. If I were her I wouldn’t want to have a thing to do with helping…. it isn’t that SHE opened season on killing black children…. seems more like there is now “open season on killing Maddy”

          • cielo62 says:

            People who let Jews be led away to the gas chambers without lifting a finger are JUST AS CULPABLE as the ones who threw the switches. A good person who does nothing to stop evil is allowing evil to exist. With “help” like Maddy’s I’d say we don’t need it.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            So now Maddy is like the people who led Jews to the gas chambers????
            REALLY?
            I don’t have a need to argue with someone who is DETERMINED to be right…. DETERMINED to classify a juror as a MURDERER by association…
            A Breeder, an Idiot, a Dumbo, a Black Child Killer, A Quasi Nazi,….
            I haven’t the energy for your brand of hate and condemnation….
            Maddy isn’t a Black Child Killer…. to characterize her that way is ugly…
            Maddy isn’t a “breeder” to characterize her that way is…. well I won’t go there….
            Maddy isn’t the SAME kind of person who didn’t lift a finger to stop Jews from being exterminated….and to characterize her as such is beyond, beyond, comprehension to me…. I HAVE family that lived in Auschwitz….I have seen their number on their wrist…. I have sat and listened to the story about his brother and mother and father who didn’t make it out alive…. that last bit from you…. just too much…. too much….

            Jury deliberations in this country are a MESS…. how the HELL do YOU know how Maddy can help? How do you know she CAN’T help?
            SOLUTIONS….. that is what Trayvon’s family are searching and working for….
            What they are NOT looking for…. is MORE HATE….THAT IS WHAT THEY DON’T NEED…. MORE HATE

          • cielo62 says:

            And solutions take courage!! That is what I am saying! It takes determination and stamina! It’s balls and brass and anger’s strength! It takes heroes and people willing to make a difference! It doesn’t need people caving in and making apologies. It takes guts. All sux of those women failed! But Maddy was the only one to let us know how close she came to making a stand, and then gave up! If course I am angry! Solutions start with people taking a stand! Like all across the country and all across the Internet, people are saying no more!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • cielo62 says:

            Tiny- have you ever seen the movie The Mission? A small tribe was going to be slaughtered by Spanish soldiers on imperial orders. A lone soldier and a priest decide to stay and help these people. Th soldier led anybody willing to fight. The priest led everyone in prayer for peace. In the end, everybody was killed anyway. What kind is solutions do we need? Non violent? Worked for Ghandi. Civil War? Worked here. I don’t have the Answer. But for me, I want to go down fighting.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            I just know what hateful words do… lead to… and what they don’t lead to….
            I have been fighting for 17 months on this case…
            I have gone to vigils, arranged events at my school… sent money and supplies when needed…. made phone calls and done research….
            I just WONT use HATE to fight….
            And I will FIGHT HATE when I see it…. words can quickly change to fists, and knives, and GUNS…. words are the springboard to change…. they can influence a mind to go do GOOD….and they can influence a mind to go do BAD….
            MY choice…. is NOT to HATE
            xoxoox ~Tiny

          • cielo62 says:

            ‘Sigh’ I just don’t know. Hate isn’t what I’m spouting, but determined action. More than words. Our efforts should include voting, economic sanctions, constant reminders of injustices present and ongoing. It must include what we HAVE which includes too much indifference, to what we NEED TO DO which includes education. I don’t put hate in those actions. But we cannot allow half assed jobs, either. The field is big and workers are few. You and i have been bitter over this point. In truth our goal is the same but honestly at least I can’t articulate the direction we need to travel. I tell my students each year that I don’t care what grades they get, I EXPECT their 100% each day, since I will be providing the same. The same thing here. Trayvon deserves no less ban our 100%.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            I’ve done my best to give that….more than 100%…. and I egg on EVERYBODY I know to do the same…. I just wont do it by saying bad things about people….

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            I am QUITE comfortable KNOWING who I am…. that I have supported the Warriors HERE and elsewhere WITHOUT the need to call people NAMES…. like DUMBO like BREEDER, etc….

            Respect is what Professor Fred asked for…. it has OBVIOUSLY been ignored!

            You want to condemn her….GO FOR IT!

            I CHOOSE to see her as a human being that is flawed…. LIKE ALL OF US…. i CHOOSE to see her as someone that was in the CRAPPIEST of situations and didn’t stand as strong as I WISHED she had…. beyond that I have NO need to dehumanize her, call her names…. OR ANYBODY ELSE NAMES FOR THAT MATTER….

            Yes I judge hate-filled words for EXACTLY what they are HATE-FILLED…..

          • cielo62 says:

            I never called her Dumbo. And in my anger I did indeed call her a breeder. No matter. What she is is a coward. She left her kids vulnerable to killers who will continue to abuse self defense. She helped in that. When, yes WHEN gz kills again, I hope she sees what she has wrought. It takes COURAGE to stop evil, not platitudes. Courage to say NO MORE! Maddy said “ok, but gee, I’m really sorry about that”. Pathetic.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            I answered your question…. I didn’t attack Bernie, Corey, B37, The Judge or ANYBODY else…. I am interested in SOLUTIONS….. not shame and blame and name calling….
            and my avatar is NOT an angel…. so your “Barb” (otherwise known as NAMECALLING) isn’t accurate….

        • cielo62 says:

          FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

    • Tzar says:

      and that does not sound like “it was god’s plan” to anyone?

  36. Ty Flair says:

    I wish people stop saying B29 was bullied. If you look at the interview she said she was the loudest in the jurors room. I have know hard feeling against her but don’t play us for a fool. Don’t tell us he is guilty but at the same time tell us you are following the law. The law is meant to be broken if you feel injustice is happening. I will leave this issue alone because I’m starting to feel that same way when I first heard the VERDICT.

    • commenting says:

      She may have been the loudest..but they managed to get her to doubt herself…to believe that they wete smarter than her and everything she said/any point that she made did not matter because of their interpretation/explanation of the law………….the prosecution should have done a better job explaining the moments before the shot and how gz was not in fear when he shot trayvon…………at

      • commenting says:

        Like I said at FIRST WHEN I BEGAN going through the evidence, I thought gz panicked and shot trayvon….but after learning more details I began changing my mind…B69 did not have that opportunity, like I said she knew gz lied about alot of things, this is y she was loud, BuT WHEN THE OTHER JURORS KEPT PREACHING THAT INTENT TO KILL MUST BE PROVEN…..

        • commenting says:

          The prosecution did not prove what they promised in their opening statements…they did not prove that gz shot trayvon because he wanted too and not because he had too…and I BELIEVED THAT THE PROSECUTION COULD HAVE EASILY PROVEN THAT IF THEY MADE AN EFFORT………they did mention that there was no way gz could have gotten the gun, but they needed to expound on that point…because the crime cunsultant used by the defence casted doubts on that statement…talking about the fLUIDITY OF THE FIGHT…there was no more movement trayvon was mounted on him using his body weight to suffocate him………now you may feel that this should have been obvious to her, but not when she heard the evidence for the first time, or even breifly again during diliberation, with jurors contradicting and confusing her………this was suppose to be the job of the prosecution to spend an hour breaking down the last minute of the fight

          • commenting says:

            So gz told alot of obvious blatant ies….he exagerated things, made alot of self saving statements…..B3 explainex that away too her…..gz’s heart was in the right place she said….so he lied as anyone would if they went beyond their call/ did somthing they knew they were not supposed to do…..but I can’t get over the svreaming part…how did they expllain the lack of gaps in the screaming if gz claimed he was being suffocated

          • commenting says:

            They probably told her he probably lied about being suffocated but the evidence showed that he was getting beaten so he shot……….

          • commenting says:

            I meant GZ CLAIMED trayvon was mounted on him using hid body weight……

          • commenting says:

            I meant gz CLAIMED THAT trayvon had mounted him using his body weight too….

  37. RobertSF says:

    I didn’t participate in yesterday’s thread, but you know, blame is like love. It’s not a 100% thing that, once you parcel out, is all gone. Zimmerman was to blame, the police were to blame, the local justice system was to blame, BDLR was to blame, B37 was to blame, and sure, B29 was to blame too. They can all receive the full brunt of the blame.

    As for the unflattering things said about B29, people say things in anger. You can all somebody a derogatory slur, even the n-word, without necessarily being a White Supremacist. In your anger, you’re just using the most hurtful word you can find.

    Should there be space to vent that anger? Well, if it were my blog, I could make that decision, but it’s not. I do think, though, that if someone is venting their anger, others should just let them vent. Let the professor decide if their comments are over the line. Jumping in to attack those venting just leads to a general flame war.

  38. I’m still going through yesterday’s thread, so I don’t know if this has been brought up already (forgive me if it has), but there was a twitter discussion yesterday that B29’s attorney David Chico was the lead prosecutor on Fogen’s 2005 assault case outside of the bar. He reduced the felony charge to a misdemeanor because sometimes in their lives people “make mistakes”. This video is from March, 2012.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/46910559#46910559

    • IOW, had B29’s attorney not reduced Fogen’s charge to a misdemeanor, Fogen could not qualify for a CCW permit, and thus no gun. I don’t think Rod Serling could have come up with a better script than the effery that this whole case presents.

  39. LBTG says:

    I didn’t read that the Professor was going to tell us how to think, feel etc. Since the verdict, our group has been going through the grieving process. The trial is over and where to we go from here? The Professor is willing to lead our future direction. I’m willing to follow.

    I have decided that I cannot put as much time, energy, and passion in future posts. I’ve learned a lot about the criminal court process and being part of the jury. But I still wonder, how can we make a difference. We can analyze, learn, see errors, notice amazing tactics / skills. But I don’t know how we can use our collective skills to make a difference in the outcome.

  40. cielo62 says:

    I’m here to claim my fair share of yesterday’s discussion. I get passionate when people allow others to skate on their responsibilities. I didn’t call anybody a name, except for B29 herself who is indeed a breeder, as she has children. Tee took exception to my refusing to tolerate people abdicating their moral responsibility in the face of serious consequences. i still maintain my anger that B29 did an evil act by “going along to get along.” But then again, everybody in this sham of a trial did evil by refusing to take a moral stand. I also ended my participation of that discussion, as anything we say is not fruitful. The case has been decided. I see a difficulty in our language when people cannot differentiate between sympathy (“I feel sorry for her”) and “Tolerance” (what she did was OK.) I will NEVER tolerate people who knowingly cave in. I might feel sympathy IF she ever accepts her responsibility for making a very bad choice and knowing she will have to live with that choice. Having said all that, MY moral responsibility involves remaining involved. I will follow and do my part.

    • ay2z says:

      “…who is indeed a breeder, as she has children.”

      That’s a fair assumption, technically, it can be assumed that she personally gave birth to some or all, but why the classification, the addition of ‘breeder’? Some might argue that being a ‘breeder’ is good, because it proves someone is of a certain age group and can produce children, and not being a ‘breeder’ candidate, means not so good, even less ‘value’ in a marriage, in society.

      The term ‘breeder’ places ‘value’ into the picture. It may not be a necessary term to get the message across, that someone’s choices for a large family, may not fit what others think is appropriate in their own life.

      Placing ‘value’ on someone, is tricky.

    • bettykath says:

      romaine provided the definition of “breeder” up thread. There is nothing in the definition that is either neutral or positive. It is pejorative. Are you sure she gave birth to all the children? Do you know that they weren’t orphaned nieces/nephews? Do you know that none of them are younger siblings that she has taken under her wing?

      • Malisha says:

        Even if she gave birth to each and every one of those children, that has nothing at all to do with her function as a juror or her place in our society as someone who has voluntarily offered us her personal thoughts and personal thoughtlessness concerning a matter that strikes at our core beliefs and our own individual fears for the safety of ourselves and our (biological or metaphorical) children.

        When I read “breeder” I actually laughed [briefly and bitterly] because my x-husband stood up in court and said he married me because he judged me to be “good breeding stock.” Poor dumb fool waited 37 years, earned a Ph.D. and still got it wrong: he accidentally married a rigorous intellect instead! And if I had been on the Fogen jury I’da hung that jury after making them “deliberate” at me for three full WEEKS.

        • bettykath says:

          no, Malisha, you’d have turned them all. You’d have come out with a verdict of guilty. 🙂

          • Malisha says:

            Aww, thanks BettyKath. A friend of mine says that my “rants” can convince people of anything but I never shake a dollar loose! “This” he concluded, “shows that you are a failure as a TV Evangelist but should have run a salon in Paris!”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I don’t think anyone here doubts that, had you been on the jury, stealth jurors or no, the outcome would have been different.

            Now gz is cruising around Texas, probably looking for another victim, if he hasn’t taken one already. After all, who can say why he was speeding when he was stopped?

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I can see you in a salon in Paris.

        • Olivia says:

          Malisha, “good breeding stock” – as though he bought you at a southern auction.

        • Olivia says:

          Mothers weren’t auctioned off to the highest bidder.

          Breeders were. “Good breeding stock” was part of the sales pitch.

          Use of the word “breeder” to describe juror B29 or any other mother is horrifically devaluing.

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            That descriptor among others used here and STILL “attempting” to be legitimized”…. in MY opinion…. is PROOF… that the people that did PRECISELY the thing the Professor seems to have taken issue with …. simply AREN’T prepared to listen, or follow, or learn…from HIS ways….it is disappointing…and heartbreaking

      • Olivia says:

        “Breeder” is used to devalue women. They’re not mothers. They’re breeders.

        The term indirectly demeans the children of those who are called “breeders”.

        Mothers have children. Breeders have what? Litters?

        “Illegitimate” and “bastard” are two more words used to devalue women and their children.

        Fortunately, the usage of those two words to devalue women and their children seems to have almost been eradicated.

        It would be nice if when “breeder” is tossed aside, another demeaning word doesn’t take its place.

      • cielo62 says:

        bettykath~ of everything I blasted this juror for, the only thing you care about is that I called her a breeder? yes, it was pejorative; it was MEANT to be pejorative. She has eight kids she is responsible for, but instead elects to spend time on a jury and then not even do the job right? Sorry if I am human. I get angry at people who wear too many hats and none of them fit. Think about it: she let them down! ALL eight of them, by leaving their corner of Florida an unsafe place for unarmed teens to walk home! Even if she didn’t care one iota for Trayvon, she SHOULD have seen what allowing this would mean to other kids, HER kids! I highly doubt this puts me anywhere NEAR the filth spewed at the CTH, so don’t try that with me. Listen, I say let’s DROP THIS ALREADY. I have nothing but scorn for that woman. Nothing. But arguing about it won’t change a damned thing. She has her conscience punishing her, she has people morally outraged at her and she will have to face her kids when they are grown asking her “Mom! How could you!?”

        ________________________________

    • sadlyyes says:

      hahahah,im laughing ,because i thought ! called her a breeder,i thought it…It is colorful language,and all the thought police,language police can NOT change my mind on that…so Breeding every year or 2 for a decade or 2,is a personal decision,but a big responsibility hey, i hope it works out for B29,but VIVa colorful languge and rants of concerned citizens

  41. Trained Observer says:

    Good morning, professor and all.

    B29, who allowed herself to be bullied and bamboozled by at least one fellow juror, provoked wrath on this board and elsewhere, IMO, for reasons that are three-fold:

    1) The deliberation result, shared by all six jurors.

    2) The fact that a bunch of women, billed as white and a hispanic, had been taking heat for that result, until B29 showed her face on TV. Based on looks alone, it then became abundantly clear why the media first reported she was black. Suddenly some whites and some blacks united in their outrage that B29, who might well have passed for Trayvon’s older sister, aunt, or mom, had so royally failed Trayvon and the justice he deserves.

    3) B29’s appalling remarks to media afterward up to and including statements that Fogen “got away with murder” and that she feels as bad about Trayvon’s death as does Sybrina Fulton.

    Frankly, in a world where emotion often rules, I think it was B29’s gratuitous placing of herself as Sybrina Fulton’s equal, walking in her shoes … combined with some of her other crass and inane motormouthing that set most of us off.

    B29 is presently in the hotseat, and deservedly so, but that too will pass, and the glare over injustice in Trayvon’s death will move on to pinpoint others. Eventually, things will shake out and all the players will be put in proper perspective in this cesspool of shame.

    Is the center strong enough to hold? Of course it is.

    • type1juve says:

      excellent assessment!

    • Malisha says:

      Hear Hear!

    • Ms.X says:

      Yes. The unspoken part here is that she is a race traitor. She surely gets mistaken for African American on a daily basis & has to constantly correct people about it.

      I was ping-ponging with the debate yesterday & agreed with both sides. Its weird to agree with those who disagree with each other. Its sad because we’re all so traumatized in general, and re-traumatized at the next level of injustice that is reached… And the next & the next like some cosmic, sadistic video game. Things are so unjust, they almost seem karmic.

      I just feel bad for all of us, but I don’t Think Ms. Fulton would agree with the meanness or any personal attacks & she definitely wouldn’t participate.

      The disappointing thing is that B29 either didn’t realize that the consequences were grave & precedent setting & will have impact beyond just this trial-A continuously negative impact if we drop the ball. gz “should not have to be accountable” for the impact his actions have on a whole race, yet part of the issue with B29 is, “Sister, didn’t you realize that this verdict is going to have an impact on a whole race?” Now, every day we will hear a report about a Black kid being shot & read a hate-filled comment about how those people deserve to be killed. If you can wrap your mind around that, you can realize how people can be so passionate about this.

  42. Two sides to a story says:

    I think this is a tempest in a teapot. I can see why people would be critical of B29 on many different levels, some of them not nice or politically correct. On the other hand, sniping about her doesn’t really move anything forward.

    It is what it is.

    • ay2z says:

      And what it is, is exposure of what was going on behind that deliberation door, opens our eyes to the workings of a jury, and what can really happen.

      I’m glad that she spoke out, but the issue is who was really ‘Juror Number SIX’?

  43. elle says:

    I took almost two weeks off reading the blog. Every time I tried to read the articles, I started to cry, and I refuse to cry over this loss. I have cried thousands of tears for Trayvon, but he does not need my tears now, he needs my strength. I think yesterday was cathartic in many ways. It is good for angry people to express that anger, and it is good for the sympathetic people to pull us back to center.

    The question is how much can the Professor take? He is a kind and loving man. This is his blog. I have rarely encountered someone IRL who always sees the humanity in every situation, as does the Professor. It is a remarkable quality that I admire greatly. He also is able to see humor in most everything, which makes him fun.

    So again, how much can our sweet Professor tolerate? He does not want to deal with constant bickering. How do we moderate ourselves? And should we? No one has the right to tell anyone else how to think. How do we help the Professor?

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Hi, elle.
      Wonderful words about the professor, and well, yes I agree.
      Fred is a wonderully Centered person, from what I know of him. I’ve only been at this site a small while, but I’ve seen Fred in action at another site and he is beyond patient. It seems like he doesn’t judge others, lets folks say their peace and if it comes to it more often than not, he will let hateful comments speak for themselves.

    • type1juve says:

      The bickering is unnecessary. We should all feel free to express our opinions without being put upon by the thought police.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Well, I think the end to the name calling would be a start. If someone shows themselves to be a supporter of Trayvon Martin and his family, they should be labelled trolls or called other names because they have a disagreement on how the case is being handled.

  44. Olivia says:

    Ready to follow your lead!

  45. Romaine says:

    I don’t think it’s fair to refer to any woman or her children using this term.

  46. Romaine says:

    Breeder (slang)

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Jump to: navigation, search

    Breeder is a derogative term for people that have children (or heterosexuals in general).

    “Breeder” may also be used as a derogatory term by childfree people of any sexual orientation, to refer to parents who focus on their children and abandon their previous friends and lifestyle, or to women who give birth to many children. The phrases “breeder, not parent” (BNP) or “parent, not breeder” (PNB) are used by some childfree communities to differentiate between what they regard as positive and negative parenting.[1]

    The use of “breeder” in this way is not new. It appears, for example, in Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal, in which Swift repeatedly uses “breeder” to refer to human breeding:

    “ The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couples who are able to maintain their own children, although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom; but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. ”

    Swift’s piece was meant as black humor, and refers to the breeding of children for cannibalism. Some parents resent being referred to as “breeders”, and feel that the word unduly reduces the process of child-raising to animal husbandry.[2]

    The term was part of a 2006 controversy in the heavily gay resort town of Provincetown, Massachusetts, when petitioners against same-sex marriage whose identity was published complained of having been called “breeders”. SFGate described the term as “a joking or derogatory slur used by gays to describe heterosexuals”.[3]

    Similarly, the term “welfare breeder” is colloquially and pejoratively used to refer to a person who is suspected of having children in order to obtain government resources, similar to the term welfare queen.[4]

    Buga is the similar term in Spanish.

  47. Good morning, skipping my way here

  48. fauxmccoy says:

    not only following, but going in the same direction as well.

  49. gps198 says:

    I will follow your lead.

  50. Professor, I agree with you about some of the heatedness in yesterday’s discussion. I said it before, and I’ll say it again, B29 was bullied in that jury room and B37 was the ringleader. Having been the victim of bullying myself, I understand why B29 caved. Not saying that I agree with her, just that I understand her.

  51. jm says:

    “Yesterday, everything came unglued in an argument about how much juror B-29 should be blamed for the acquittal, since she was the person with the last clear chance to prevent it.”

    If B29 interpreted the Florida law or had it interpreted for her by other jurors (with an agenda?), even though she believed GZ was guilty, but according to the complicated legalese of the law, she believed she could not find him guilty, how could she have prevented the acquittal?

    I’m not a fan of B29 for some of her confusing/outrageous comments or even to go on national TV to make the comments but aside from that I think she thought she was doing the right thing according to her interpretation of the law. (That is where the prosecution dropped the ball for not explaining in layman’s terms how and why the jurors could find Zimmerman guilty.)

    • bettykath says:

      About the law. There was a link on the previous thread that I’ll repeat here.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alafair-burke/george-zimmerman-jury-instructions_b_3596685.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

      Burke points out the 3 elements of the self-defense instructions that were in the jury instructions. He then goes on to point out what was missing:

      “Even Florida’s broad self-defense statutory scheme follows traditional self-defense limitations by prohibiting “initial aggressors” from using force provoked by their own conduct. A defendant in Florida cannot claim self-defense if he “initially provokes the use of force” against himself, unless he either withdraws from the conflict and conveys the withdrawal to the other party (the legal equivalent of “saying ‘uncle'”) or uses reasonable escape options to avoid death or great bodily harm (in other words, the initial aggressor has no right to stand his ground; he must retreat).”

      JN left this instruction out: the state wants it in the defense wants it out. It’s out. West threatened an appeal that would overturn the verdict. JN didn’t bother to take the time to hear the state’s legal arguments as to why it should be in. This was her error.

      The article is not difficult to read.

      • MDH says:

        That was an epic failure by JN, The “error” in the cited case law used by the defense was that the judge in that case did not make clear that provocation be based on “force” or “threat of force” to determine an initial aggressor. Apparently, this judge just used provocation. So JN uses that case law and a threat by West to eliminate the language altogether, rather than just making sure the “force” or “threat of force” was in the instructions.

        IMO, it is reasonable for a person the see a threat of force from a larger man in possession of a gun creeping up on them in the dark without announcing their intentions.

        As a result, the jury should have been allowed to make this determination.

        IMO, JN was also a coward. She let West walk all over her.

      • anita says:

        ~ Bettykath Thank you for your reply to me yesterday evening on the last thread. I just now went back & read the posts. I appreciate it. I need to think for a second sometimes before I mouth off. I’m busy today, but I’ll check back in the late afternoon.I think today everyone will’ play nice’.

  52. KateW says:

    Good mornin folks. Hopefully everyone has had a chance to relax and reflect.

  53. Deborah Moore says:

    Good Morning, Fred.
    I was sorry to see the brouhaha yesterday. I hope folks will return to civil discussions of issues and I hope never ever to read name calling like the word “breeder” here in the future..
    So, can you explain to me what you mean by “center”? Thanks.

    • sadlyyes says:

      do you like to control,other activities of people,far as i know this is a free speech country

      • I am not talking about free speech.

        I am talking about our community and respect for others.

        • sadlyyes says:

          i am not talking about decorum,i mentioned that B29 was a breeder,in my description of her.Having children imo is a big responsibility,having 8 is an enormous responsibility.I dont know the woman,she might be the most wonderful mother in the world.i hope so…Having 8 children,i would have thought,she would be more careful,than to release a child killer back on the street.As you called foagy a remorseless child killer…very scary imo

          • ay2z says:

            I don’t think we can judge, this is a woman who, from all we know, is a good, caring and providing mother. We do not know anything else. Really we do not.

          • concernedczen says:

            I don’t think she is the biological mother to all 8. I believe she said she had 6 children when she was first interviewed. That makes me think the other 2 are step-children.

        • abbyj says:

          Fred, You’ve always steered us right and true with the unflinching expectation of dignity toward others. I agree that B29’s admission was heartbreaking, but I will not judge her harshly for her decisions about her life, her family, or any other aspect of her life.

          The question that remains before us all regarding B29 is this: whose fault is it when jurors have been ill-prepared for the pressures and tactics of intimidation that can be used in the jury room? What are the exact instructions that jurors must be given in order for them to render an honest and just verdict?

          Sure, we’re filled with bitter disappointment, but all the blame for this poorly handled case cannot fall at the feet of this one woman. We know that GZ got away with murder, and it’s overwhelming to us all. I take heart in your thoughts, Fred, to look to the future, to ask ourselves what we can do to ensure justice—and then to commit ourselves to that path.

          One question I would like to ask you is this: what is the procedure in setting in motion a civil suit against GZ? Will that take much time, or can the wheels of justice against GZ begin turning soon? If you have a moment to answer this, I send my thanks.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @abbyj — your sentiments mirror my own.

          • abbyj says:

            Thank you, Faux. The system from top to bottom was so replete with calculated incompetency and open corruption that I refuse to blame this one woman, however much she failed at her task. There were overwhelming pressures and forces that she could not overcome. Of course I’m devastated, but the failure of justice was deeply endemic, far beyond the scope of this single woman’s failure. Thanks again for your kind comment, Faux.

        • tinytruthseeker says:

          Sadly I have only read a dozen posts after your request for peace,,,, and yet all I see are excuses for the poor behavior yesterday and continued condemnation of this juror…. I will have to say goodbye for now…. my mental and spiritual health means far more to me than to see those I held in such HIGH regard ….DISREGARD our great teachers requests to STOP TALKING and start learning and listening…. how my heart is breaking as I came here to ESCAPE this kind of HATE TALK….and instead find it is just as hateful as other places and sadly…. being directed at soft hearted, good hearted, gentle learners….

          Thank you Professor…. you have been a most AMAZING teacher…. I hope in my journey through college I will find Professors and mentors with HALF the heart and desire you show your students…. love to you and your beautiful wife…
          xoxoox ~Priss

      • roderick2012 says:

        @sad.

        Damn that was really disrespectful.

        This is a private space on the internet so I assume that the blog owner can set up the rules as he sees fit.

        • sadlyyes says:

          okay,i read the last thread,and my statement to the Prof,was not about the decorous,or non decorous writing.The subject has become incendiary,and I WAS remarking,on people telling OTHER people how to FEEL,or SPEAK about the subject. As long as decorum is maintained in due respect to the Prof,and site.
          People have OPINIONS,they are free to express in this country.

          • bettykath says:

            There are many ways to express opinions. One way is incendiary, another way is with respect. The previous thread had many very disrespectful comments.

            btw, the First Amendment blurb about free speech is about the government, and only the government, not restricting free speech. It does not say anything about any other entity restricting free speech. So, the blog owner can place whatever restrictions he chooses on this blog. Corporations place restrictions on their employees all the time and it’s legal.

        • abbyj says:

          Yes, Roderick. I agree. Disrespectfully stated toward B29. I personally would not have eight children, but I will not condemn her for her family choices.

          What is far more salient in this discussion is how she was apparently badgered into a vote that violated her conscience. THAT disturbs me far more than how many children she has brought into the world. Where was the prosecution in giving jury instructions about not being intimidated by others? Where was the judge’s instructions about the real terms of self defense? So, this woman was left adrift, and not we want to beat her up.

          Sure, I’m disappointed as all hell, but she is a symptom of the system failing, not the cause of it.

      • ay2z says:

        good topic for discussion sometime, freedom of speech and promotion of hatred. Clickorlando, WDBO, is a great example of freedom of hate speech, in its comments section, pure hate promotion against, in this case Trayvon and his family for no reason other than hatred of race as a whole.

        What are the US hate laws, if any? Do they protect promotion of hatred against any individuals based on any human rights

        And why does WDBO choose to give text space to hate promotion? Is it so scared of it’s own skin that it can not stand up against the often used bigotted, racial, disgusting hate terms that are of no value except to promote pure hate against other human beings?

        One might well conclude that the term ‘breeder’ sadlyyes responds to as censorship, is rude and degrading, and dehumanizing, unless you are talking about a factory farm situation. Does the USA have any hate laws, and what is their effect to stop someone promoting hatred against its own citizens? Canada has something.

        (bTW, ‘breeder’ is exactly the concept behind the bigamist religious cults as they have the equivalent of calendars to arrange which wife will be ovulating when, for most efficient production of offspring, therefore more offspring, more chance of acceptance in the celestial kingdom of their particular version of a god. And the hate terms used by the clickorlandioans on a licenced media publication site, is exactly the same racist rants of now the fallen from prophetdom, ex-leader of the extremest mormon cult used in teaching his school children in Colorado City and Texas, and also what he used in Canada at their satellite church colony when he visited. Can dig up a media investigative journalism video, if anyone wants proof that the same terms on the bigoted comments section of WDBO and other tolerant of hate promotion, are what this religious leader was teaching inside his church and school about certain races).

        • ay2z says:

          (proof by a recording of uncle Jeff, himself speaking this lesson).

        • Olivia says:

          @ay2z – glad you posted the above examples (Clickorlando, and WDBO) of sites that permit freedom to post hate speech.

          Your comment about “hate terms that are of no value, except to promote hate” is so relevant to keeping Professor Leatherman’s site a great place to visit.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Bam! You win a prize.
            Strawberries and watermelon. Sound good?
            Sweet is a good antidote for the uglies. 🙂

          • Malisha says:

            Deborah Moore, it may be that you’re a bad influence. I have heard that one can take strawberries and watermelon and create a drug — when ingested it makes people become violent, act like savages, and attack decent Americans. I know what you’re up to … 😈

        • abbyj says:

          Ay2z, Yes, “breeder” is a nasty term with racial, ethnic, and multi-layered intentions to demean. It’s been used from the time of slave plantations, to ‘Welfare Queens,” always loaded with ethnic and racial slurs. It’s even used to demean straight people by intolerant gays. I myself have been called a “breeder” to my face by angry gays, whose equal rights (incidentally) I have supported my entire life. It’s a degrading term meant to liken images of human reproduction to those of dogs having litters. Bestializing humans. That’s how I think of it, so NO, it’s not an appropriate word to use, IMO. It’s filled with hate. JMO.

    • A core belief or feeling that, like gravity, holds us together.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Got it. Thanks..

      • pat deadder says:

        I can not judge b29.I don’t know her cicumstances.Right now in my life I could have stood firm on my convictions.At 36 I was with an abusive husband and had no self asteem obviously so I’m not so sure..Are the jurors questioned about their ability to stand firm if they feel bullied or if the evidence supports their stance.. if so at 36 I would have had to answer no and would have asked to be excused.

        • lsimon3321 says:

          I think telling the jurors that the verdict has to be unanimous implied that the majority is supposed to rule. I got the impression that they would have to stay until the all agreed on the same verdict. This juror told them during voir dire that she has a responsibility to 8 children and did not want to leave that burden on someone else and serve indefinitely on a jury. I think considering just these things alone would have forced her to go along with the “majority” along with one of the jurists having access to a defense lawyer husband to help her bolster her argument to acquit.

          • Malisha says:

            I am very suspicious of the sheriff’s personnel who were “guarding” the jury sequestered there. I think they may have helped “push B-29 into line” for their “kappitann.”

  54. Tzar says:

    Yesterday, everything came unglued in an argument about how much juror B-29 should be blamed for the acquittal, since she was the person with the last clear chance to prevent it.

    I disagree with this
    calling board members names is improper but critiquing their comments is necessary
    it is what will keep the board alive
    In yesterday’s post I disagreed with people who hold a lot of credit with me and their account is in no way overdrawn. So I see nothing wrong with that.

    The absurd must be ridiculed from time to time, it is the safest medicine and as far as I am willing to go in these discussions when necessary. But to sit by quietly for the sake of appearing to get along is improper.

    • Tzar says:

      to be clear I disagreed with the idea that the board came “unglued”

    • type1juve says:

      “But to sit by quietly for the sake of appearing to get along is improper.”

      Yes it is, and this verdict is what happens when we choose to do that. B29 made a horrible mistake in going along with the other racist jurors, and I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt when I call what she did a mistake. We don’t know that she’s not just as racist as the others and how that may have factored into her decision. No, it’s not right for us to judge her for the job she holds or how many children she has. However, in trying to understand her vote to acquit we do have to look at the whole person and the life experiences that they may bring to that jury room. She could have been excused from serving if she was not up to the task. She wanted to be on that jury. She appeared on tv before millions to garner sympathy and play the victim. I don’t believe there is anything she can say to make me understand why she voted to acquit a murderer. I don’t see where she has been treated any differently on this blog than any of the other sorry players in this mess of a trial.

      • chills101 says:

        Exactly, there are no excuse for her behavior.

      • lurker says:

        There are a couple of things we need to remember about racism. First and foremost, it is an institution, a system. Individuals within that system, regardless how noble, clearheaded and upstanding they may be find their choices, in terms of fighting the system, to be limited.

        The second thing is that the world does not divide neatly between racists (or those who harbor racial prejudice) and non-racists. We are all prey to all kinds of racially-based mythology and misapperceptions.

        I think we all put a heavy focus on the revelation from the juror–seeing her perhaps as the last straw that broke the camel’s back. But the reality is that there were many such weak spots.

        Personally, in terms of fruitful action, I prefer a more systemic focus, and that is on the SYG law itself. So long as the law excuses shooting based on fears and suspicions, regardless of whether less lethal means of securing personal safety are available, we are systemically endorsing deaths such as that of Trayvon Martin.

  55. Malisha says:

    I didn’t feel any sense of it unraveling but whatever Professor says I will follow.

    • sadlyyes says:

      some people are very uncomfortable with passionate banter. i believe the lack of passion,and the rise of perscription drugs that dull peoples passion,has led to this apathetic society.In fact if B29 had a passionate belief in Foagys guilt,mebbe she would have stood up to intimidation

      • roderick2012 says:

        @sad, maybe you didn’t read some of the posts at the end of the previous thread but they were borderline racist implying that B29 is stupid and denigrating her job and other posters implying things about her because she has eight children.

        I have been guilty of being ‘passionate’ but I don’t believe that I have used anyone’s personal life to criticize their actions except Piglet and his family.

        • @roderick2012

          @sad, maybe you didn’t read some of the posts at the end of the previous thread but they were borderline racist implying that B29 is stupid and denigrating her job and other posters implying things about her because she has eight children.

          The sentiments were racist (and sexist) in both directions…

          …both that she was too stupid to know what she was doing

          …and that she shouldn’t be expected to not be too stupid (i.e. needs white people in power to explain to her what to do).

          I have stated previously that this is how white supremacy works.

        • Malisha says:

          I hear you, roderick, and I think you’re absolutely right about your record of not doing that.

          To me, the individual acts of corruption (worst), callousness (worse) and cowardice (bad) that have brought us to this point are just egregious. I cannot excuse a single one of them. Can I understand WHY any one person would have committed any one of them? Sure. But I can also underSTAND why any one person would have committed murder.

          Still, nobody gets a pass, not for the bad, worse and worst and not for the murder (although, obviously, the murderer DID get a pass from those with big guns so I can’t change that).

          I do not disrespect B-29 for being mother of eight, or for having a so-called “menial” job (I believe more people should do menial work and/or that everyone should do menial work one month per year to qualify as human, a peculiar belief of mine) or for being allegedly unintelligent. I DO disrespect her for trying to sugar-coat what she actually did when she admittedly “gave up” and “gave in” and allowed a verdict she did not honestly agree with. And I have ended a sentence with a preposition.

          Woo Wooooo grammar police!

        • tinytruthseeker says:

          Thank you Professor and Roderick…. I had decided to tune OUT here after the posts I read and the vicious reply’s I got…. but I am here to learn…. For now I will do it silently…. I have learned other places that while good posers hide themselves well…. in the right circumstance…. they can’t help but reveal who they TRULY are….
          And so I await the next lessons Professor….

      • chills101 says:

        So true

    • Dan Q. Smith says:

      I missed all that. I was sick in bed. But my opinion is B29 is an INDIVIDUAL. The verdict had to be the unanimous verdict of INDIVIDUALS. So, B29 gets no pass from me. She went on national TV, said he got away with murder, blamed it on jury instructions she did not understand, said she carried Trayvon on her shoulders, and said her pain equated to Trayvon’s mother’s. Excuse me, but everything she said was indefensible BS, and I could give two cents about her gender, the fact she is a mother, nor her minority status. IRRELEVANT.

  56. sadlyyes says:

    Dont have much time to comment today,but the copycat shootings have begun,a 14 yr old teen in NOLA,is fifgting for his life…please master of universe,stop the crazies

    • Malisha says:

      sadly, many people really do look to the “master of universe” to stop the crazies. (“Master of Universe” will hereinafter be referred to as “MU”.)

      MU doesn’t usually stop the crazies.
      Individual crazies can sometimes be stopped.
      Sometimes incarceration stops an individual crazy.
      This time, not.

      • sadlyyes says:

        of course you are right,it is a metaphor,for SOMEONE,please stop the madness,But the world is mad,and getting madder every day.but eating and posting pablum will not inspire anyone to get involved.i like the Profs thought provoking posts,the censors not so much.Your posts are powerful too….keep it up,ill keep reading!

        • Malisha says:

          I look forward to your words as well.
          I’m not arguing or critiquing when I jump into a phrase like “master of the universe” — my habit is to let words act as catalysts.

  57. crazy1946 says:

    Professor, do you have any suggestions as to how we can bring public awareness to the need for Shel-lie to face justice for her false statements to the court in Judge Lester’s court room?

  58. bettykath says:

    “Never mind that she never would have been in that situation if many others had done what they were supposed to do.”

    So true.

  59. crazy1946 says:

    here

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