Featuring Leroy Eugene Hudson: Truth first then Justice

Friday, July 19, 2013

Good evening my friends:

Leroy Eugene Hudson wrote this thought provoking piece.

Truth first then justice.

We’re the ones that failed. Not us specifically, but the people who knew and understood the truth and common sense and had the format to speak out about it. We let another narrative take place so we can avoid calling what we are seeing what it really is.

For example:

We let the media tell us that GZ said the word punk instead of calling them racist for trying to clean something up that was so damn obviously racist.

We let the media actually argue that GZ got out of his car to look for an address when the audio says that statement is a big obvious lie that only a true bigot, not a dummy, a bigot would fall for.

We let them tell us that GZ and family isn’t racist when his own mother says she is a white Peruvian when her grandpa is black, his dad called black people the real racists, his brother castigated the entire black race as violent based on what 2 accused teenagers have done, and a cousin who confirms that entire family’s hatred of blacks. Nevermind the fact that GZ called the police exclusively on blacks including a 7 to 9yr old that was in a whole nother apartment complex alleging he’s suspicious.

We let them tell us that 30yr audio experts are hacks because they say it was NOT GZ. They acknowledge they don’t have a big enough sample to say it’s TM but they know it’s not GZ.

We let them argue that TM did a U-turn 5 minutes after GZ said he’s running because he knew GZ would be at the “T” 5 minutes later. We didn’t tell them how absurd that argument is.

We let them argue that TM is the type of kid that would turn around and beat a man to death and then go home and eat his snacks like nothing even happened which would only be believable if that kid is black, and hence a thug.

Then we’re supposed to believe that GZ didn’t get a toxicology test because they forgot? If I get hurt at work, they wont forget, if I get caught with drugs they wont forget, If I get in a car accident and someone gets hurt, whether it’s my fault or not, they wont forget. This man shot a child and was in custody for 5hrs and we’re supposed to believe they forgot? They didn’t forget, they covered for him because if he was clean they would’ve tested him and put it all over the news. He was dirty.

Then we hear a teenager screaming for help on tape, then murdered, then the worst of it all he’s slandered along with his entire family. Something that didn’t even happen to Scott Peterson(I now question his guilt) and Joran Vandersloot. I recognize that it’s necessary to slander TM in order to avoid the truth

But the worst is that the champions of justice worked hand over fist to hide the blatant murder of a child. And we never made that argument. So this is another case of where Stockholm Syndrome by blacks prevented blacks from getting justice.

353 Responses to Featuring Leroy Eugene Hudson: Truth first then Justice

  1. Lonnie Starr says:

    Found this, but no foundation for it:

    Is double jeopardy when you cant be charged with the same crime if found not guilty the fist time?
    In: Criminal Law, US Constitution
    [Edit categories]
    ———

    Under the US Constitution, 5th amendment, quoting “nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb” [sic] you are “safe” from being tried twice for the same crime, with a caveat.
    There are certain instances where you could be tried twice for the same ‘crime’ / offense. This list is not all inclusive:
    Jury Malfeasance – Corruption of the Jury in the case.
    Lesser included charges – This type of action is rare as most courts demand that the lesser included charges be made a part of the first trial (but it has happened, only rarely).
    ——————————

    Unfortunately the Roberts Court is all over the place on almost every issue, making it all but impossible to determine where the axe will fall next.

  2. aussie says:

    I live in a country that was founded as a penal colony. The fist settlers were convicts. Today it is a free and fair country. Perhaps remembering some of those settlers had been transported for stealing a loaf of bread (though some were true criminals) the laws don’t go overkill for minor offences.

    Nobody is allowed to talk about evidence until the trial is held. And no nonsense “evidence” is allowed. Of course it’s only 3 to 5 years for things America has mandatory minimum 20 years for, so defendants don’t have to try so ridiculously hard to get out being convicted. We also we don’t have death penalties to use as blackmail to force guilty pleas from innocents.

    America? well, it is a consumer society. Everything has a brand, everything is packaged, everything has to have a label

    You started out free and have become a nation of felons. Labelled felons. There is no concept of paying your debt to society then being allowed back in. The label follows everywhere. I am shocked how many news stories mention someone is a “felon” when it is not relevant to the story. (eg Charles Ramsay who broke the screen door to let out Castro’s victims in Cleveland — what the hell has it to do with that that he has a domestic violence conviction???).

    Ex felons can’t vote. Ever. One planted baggie of marijuana can disenfranchise you for life. Can’t get jobs. Can’t rent somewhere to live. Yet somehow expected to not turn to real crime to be able to EAT. (no food stamps either, in some states, unless you work).

    Why? A self righteous punitive tyrannical attitude for why? to make yourselves feel you are better? to have someone to be better than?

    There is also no understanding of the difference between PUBLIC and PUBLICISED.

    Yes, it is a Public Record if someone gets arrested and/or convicted. Let anyone with real business knowing about it go to the court concerned and read the paper records there. But, no, you get MUGSHOT FEATURES in the local papers. Humiliate the person and of course never put in if they later get acquitted. Make sure everyone can track them and humiliate (or fire) them in 20 years’ time too.

    If any of you think “you deserve to be humiliated if you’re stupid enough to, eg, drink and drive” — BITE YOUR TONGUE. You deserve to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. You deserve whatever fine or punishment the law sets out. THAT IS ALL.

    If you apply for a loan, by all means let the bank see your credit score. What business is it of anyone else on the internet to know it? What business of strangers how much rent you pay? What month you bought your vehicle? when you moved from one address to another? where your kids are enrolled?

    Why do stories keep saying “registered DemRep” when it has NOTHING to do with the item? (like they said GZ was a democrat). Just another label to dogwhistle up the opposition, to tell them which side to take without bothering to wait for the facts. (And what a stupid ridiculous nullification of the secret ballot, that cornerstone of true democracy, which is meant to avoid being persecuted for how you vote).

    Facts don’t matter, you see. Only the labels do. And every single one of those labels comes with prejudices, bigotry, stereotyping attached, readymade. No need to think. Judgement and sentencing attached, too.

    Convenient consumerism: , you wanna feel big, just pick a box off the shelf, readymade prepackaged people to LOOK DOWN ON.

    disclaimer: talking about “all America” not you good guys personally..

    You want to make changes? start by changing the labeling system.

  3. aussie says:

    here we go the sheriff is in trouble now: (my bolding)

    Florida Statue 918
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0900-0999/0918/0918.html

    918.07 Admonition to officer in charge of jurors.—When the jury is committed to the charge of an officer, the officer shall be admonished by the court to keep the jurors together in the place specified and not to permit any person to communicate with them on any subject except with the permission of the court given in open court in the presence of the defendant or the defendant’s counsel. The officer shall not communicate with the jurors on any subject connected with the trial and shall return the jurors to court as directed by the court.

    918.12 Tampering with jurors.—Any person who influences the judgment or decision of any grand or petit juror on any matter, question, cause, or proceeding which may be pending, or which may by law be brought, before him or her as such juror, with intent to obstruct the administration of justice, shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084

    There are penalties. There is no RETRIAL. A MIStrial may be called if tampering is discovered before the trial is over.

    I think in a famous Mob case they had a retrial because the tampering was so great it materially affected the outcome.

    I think that’s what happened here, too, but….

    Just being allowed to visit with family is not enough — if not sequestered, they’d have been allowed to go home. There needs to be some EVIDENCE that the visitors talked about the case..

    We badly need the brow-beaten jurors to speak out. Were they threatened or embarrassed with personal information brought in from outside?

  4. Malisha says:

    I came back from the noontime gathering in front of the federal building with a regret: not enough white faces there. In retrospect, I realized that several of the people who wanted to take pictures of my sign would then ask me to hold the sign in FRONT of me rather than in front of my face (as I usually do) so they could get my face in the picture. At first I thought that bizarre (I’m no movie star) but after it happened I began to think it was because I was white. They wanted a record that there were whites involved in the protest. And the press described this as a “predominantly Black” crowd.

    Yet as I was on the bus down to the rally and back from it, each way someone started a conversation with me because of my sign, and each wanted to know more and more and more about the case, the rally, my take on it; they were young white men (one seemed part Asian in heritage, other quite “white” and northeast) about 20-25 years old. Both of them, upon leaving, thanked me for the information and wished me luck.

    The racists have done much more, with the killing of Trayvon Martin, than they could have imagined. I’m still sorting through my reactions.

    • Nef05 says:

      Yes, they certainly have. Some of them (admitted racists) are even expressing feelings of guilt. Here’s one racist’s own introspective look at his feelings of guilt, in the wake of the verdict.

      I’m a racist. There is no known cure, so best I can hope for is to minimize the symptoms. I’ve struggled my whole life to do just that, but I still can’t help but feel partially responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death. I carry this guilt because nothing I do is enough to combat the system I once gladly took part in.

      http://overbear.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/i-killed-trayvon-martin/

      I realize you may have some mixed feelings about today. I certainly would, under those circumstances (the same kind of mixed feeling I have when someone, usually caucasian, feels the need to “compliment” me or any black person on how articulate/well spoken we are). But, I sincerely hope you feel some small sense of accomplishment, that two young men are now in possession of some basic facts of the case and surrounding circumstances that will make it unlikely they will fall for any old gratuitous version handed to them, without questioning whether it makes sense. Who knows how many more people they may tell what you’ve told them?

      “Each one, teach one” – and you’ve taught two, in one day.
      I say, “Well done!”

      • Malisha says:

        Thanks, Nef. I have sent a few of my friends that article you found. I’ve had “the talk” with a few of my friends (various “races”) called “I’m a racist too” and it’s something like this guy’s article except of course I was never involved in anything overt and my parents were white civil rights guys. But what I meant by my being a racist was that I was brought up in this culture and had heard crap about this — much of which I did not jump in to correct, mock or object to, when I was younger and “nicer” — pretty much all my life. When I was little and I heard racist crap I would jump in and spout my parents’ cliches, which were themselves subtly privileged and racist: “Negroes are just as good as white people”; “They are NOT colored; nobody took a crayon and colored them; they are NEGRO”; “All people of all colors deserve our respect”; “If you are prejudiced [we didn’t say “racist” then, just “prejudiced”] against Negroes, you are just as bad as being anti-Semites” [this one reserved for Jews who said racist things, which was usually less violent but rather subtly haughty and “tolerant”; and my personal favorite, “How would you like it if Negroes said that about WHITES?”

        But I never heard the real questions that should have been asked:

        What makes you think you’re better than anybody else?

        What color do you think YOU ARE?

        What do you do for the world that no Negro person has ever done?

        Did you choose to be born white? Do you deserve it?

        Do you know any [lazy] [uneducated] [poorly dressed] [unfriendly] [loud] [grammatically challenged] white people?

        As I got older and came by my own thoughts, I gave up these stock phrases I had previously used to banter in “prejudiced” conversations and for a while I fell silent because “we” (white high school kids and white college kids) really didn’t have many Black friends and acquaintances. My family was poor so we didn’t even have Black SERVANTS, which many of my high school and college friends had, so at least they knew a few Black people. I didn’t. One friend in grade school, one friend of a friend (a year ahead of me so only peripherally) in high school. (There were only three Black kids IN my grade school and I can only remember five in all of high school!)

        When I went to college I met Black kids for the first time and THEN it was the late 60s and we were all in the Black power movement together, so I get to know them, and we DID talk about racism, still calling it “prejudice.” And that is when I remembered not having jumped into conversations in high school except to say little idiotic things such as “Why would a Black man want to rape me any more than a white man?” or “I’m not scared to dance with a Black man” and stupid crap like that. [By then we said “Black” rather than “Negro”]

        I remembered, when I started to really socialize and work at school with Black kids, that there were probably 100 conversations I “strategically ignored” because I felt unable to hold my own when hearing the more subtle white privilege talk of the kids in town who were wealthier and socially “higher placed” than me. When I began to discuss this with my college friends, they actually told me THEY had heard the same kinds of things! I was dumbfounded. I only heard anti-semitic crap from people who did not realize I was Jewish, and then, when I said, “Well I’m Jewish and…” they would quickly tell me that I was the exception and they had lots of Jewish friends.

        Why am I in this meditation? I have forgotten. Oh yeah, “I am a racist.” When I finally told one of my AA friends (during the OJ trial) that I was a racist SHE denied it. We had a fantastically funny conversation about it. (She was in bed with her white boyfriend and called me because she and he had argued, still in bed, about OJ’s guilt or innocence and she called me to say HE was a racist and HE believed OJ was guilty. She wanted ME to tell HIM that OJ was innocent and he was a racist so I told her I believed OJ was guilty AND I was a racist AND I did not believe OJ was guilty BECAUSE I was a racist and BOTH she and her white boyfriend went, “HUH?” It was pretty funny; I wish I could reproduce it on film.)

        Oh it’s funny at times, but when you get right down to it, a moment happens where a Hispanic woman feels she cannot countermand the pressure brought by five white women to force her to say that ALL GROUND in this country belongs to Fogen and he can kill any pBa-lack kid he says he’s scared of, and a moment happens when a Fogen feels sure he can get away with putting a hollowpoint bullet into a kid’s heart because he’s white and right, and these moments are beginning to define our lives.

  5. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Ella’s Song

    Until the killing of black men, black mothers’ sons
    Is as important as
    the killing of white men, white mothers’ sons

    We who believe in freedom cannot rest
    We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

  6. annahkonda says:

    Michael Vick killed a dog and went to prison for 2 years. George Zimmerman murdered a child and is declared not guilty.

  7. LiveByTheGulf says:

    I’ve been searching. It looks like Nathaniel may have misunderstood the Florida law regarding retrial after acquittal. Double Jeopardy is sacrosanct by the constitution.

    The only thing I found about retrial is Tibbs vs Florida where Tibbs was convicted and wanted a trial to reverse the conviction.
    http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/457/31/

    However, “However, new charges may be brought against you for tampering with a witness.” One of the attorneys did mention that Double Jeopardy
    http://www.lawqa.com/qa/can-someone-be-retried-for-murder

    Jury tampering appears to be a popular sport in Florida:
    http://tinyurl.com/kzuchfw

    • LiveByTheGulf says:

      Wonder if the defense insisted on the jurors being hidden (no way to identify them) so we could not check our their voir dire against public records.

  8. Two sides to a story says:

    Melissa Harris Perry interviews the father of Jordan Davis – http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46979745/vp/52529472#52529533

  9. Trained Observer says:

    Below, which I find hopeful, is from liberal site PoliticusUSA:

    “The Justice Department is taking a long and hard look at the circumstances surrounding the shooting of Trayvon Martin. They have asked the Sanford Police to hold on to all evidence associated with the Zimmerman case.

    Here is the statement from the Justice Department, “As the Department first acknowledged last year, we have an open investigation into the death of Trayvon Martin. The Department of Justice’s Criminal Section of the Civil Rights Division, the United States Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Florida, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation continue to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal investigation, as well as the evidence and testimony from the state trial. Experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction, and whether federal prosecution is appropriate in accordance with the Department’s policy governing successive federal prosecution following a state trial.”

    The OLD EVIDENCE will form the basis of the federal review, but also ANY EVIDENCE NOT USED AT TRIAL could also be valuable to federal investigators. Justice wants to see all the evidence, not just what was admitted into the trial. The point is that George Zimmerman is far from home free. The federal government is going to take their time investigating him for potential civil rights violations.” .

    XXXXXXXXX

    I know odds of conviction are slim, but I do hope an effort is made to try Fogen on federal charges. If nothing nothing else, by pressuring for federal action we can help assure that another year of this murdering pig’s life is tied up in legal wrangling, and that his gravy train money goes toward legal fees.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Trained Observer,
      ” another year of this murdering pig’s life is tied up in legal wrangling, and that his gravy train money goes toward legal fees.”

      One more good thing along those lines, for each dollar his supporters send him there will be one dollar less donated to the Tea Party! Win and Win situation! I guess that I need to postpone my order of five gallons of honey and two million fire ants for now……;-)

      • Trained Observer says:

        Nothing like Florida fire ants … as I learned on a camping trip. Keep that order handy, with a side of poison oak.

  10. crazy1946 says:

    Hmmm, it seems as if this alleged law is being mentioned in several different locations! I still can not accept that it could be true, it would be too simple and nothing about Florida law is simple……

  11. crazy1946 says:

    On another site which I some times read, an alleged lawyer made mention of a law that is in effect in only three states, those being Alabama, Delaware and Florida. The law is called Judicial Override, he seems to suggest it would allow the judge (Nelson) to over ride the verdict of the jury in the event that jury tampering took place. As much as this sounds great if it were true, I can not accept that in a state that the laws seem to be so poorly written and enforced that such a simple law would be on the books. If in fact it is a valid law, is there any way it could/would stand the judicial test when double jeopardy is not permitted per the constitution? What little information that I could gather using my extremely slow I-Net access is vague but seems to suggest it cannot over ride the double jeopardy clause…… Any comments, other than what I am already thinking (the alleged attorney is full of BS!)?

    • LiveByTheGulf says:

      IMHO: There’s no double jeopardy if the verdict was “in the bag”. Fogen didn’t look very surprised to me when the verdict was read. The prosecution threw the case & the police wouldn’t help the prosecutor.

      • crazy1946 says:

        You and I agree, however that does not mean much if the law does not back up our wishes! Blattttt!!!!!!!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Someone with Lexus Nexus might be able to find it. It was around the time when we were on usenet, debating Giuliani’s mob cases. It turned out he’d lost everyone of them on appeal, with judges excoriating him for his misconduct. Somewhere in there, there was a mention of another mob case, where the mobster had been discovered to have bribed a juror, SCOTUS ruled, as I recall, that he could be retried, because he had not fulfilled the requirement to gain double jeopardy protection, since they figured, he had not really faced jeopardy within the meaning of the law, as required.

          Best I can figure is somewhere in the 90’s before the Clinton thing took over the boards. Or, perhaps later when Kerik was being nominated for Homeland security and Giuliani was running for President. That’s as best I can nail it so far. It would probably be listed as an exception to the double jeopardy clause.

    • aussie says:

      The Judicial Override refers to the sentencing suggested. In Alabama apparently the judges often override jurors’ verdict of life sentence, to change it to death penalty. In the other two States it is more often the other way around.

      http://media.al.com/live/other/death-penalty-alabama-override-report.pdf

      I see nothing about the judge being able to change a not guilty verdict to a guilty one.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Thank you for your clarification of what this law was about.. I had already (as I mentioned earlier) decided it was not accurate in the context that had been used.. 🙂

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The USSC, has ruled in mob cases, that jury tampering removes the protection of double jeopardy because the defendants who face a tampered jury, they rule, has not faced jeopardy with in the meaning of the double jeopardy clause. Thus, if the trial was fixed, such that a conviction was not possible, the defendant faced no real hazard of jeopardy, thus is not eligible for double jeopardy protection, unless and until they survive a fair trial.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Lonnie Starr, do you by chance have a link to that SCOTUS ruling? If it is a valid ruling, it would be interesting to se if that could possibly apply to this case. If it could be proved that Jena, Jeremy, and the other neighbors conspired with the Fogdoit to kill/or injure another person, they might be able to be considered an organized criminal group… Hmmm, interesting concept…. but very iffy…..

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I remember reading it in a cite posted to usenet in the Giuliani years. When the talk was about him convicting mobsters (turns out all of his convictions were reversed on appeal because of his misconduct). Back then Gotti was winning time after time and other mob trials were being posted about. I’m sure it wasn’t a Giuliani case or a Gotti case, I don’t remember him having bribed a juror, but I could be wrong. I’ve done some google searches and came up empty, lots of “close but no cigar” type answers. My guess is someone with Lexus Nexus might just be able to get it.

          Later I’m going to try “dogpile” a search engine I haven’t used in almost 10 years (if it’s still around), but it used to be very good for people and law searches. Naturally, if I find it, I’ll report back with glee, you won’t have to ask.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Lonnie Starr, thanks, I’ve been searching as well, and have come up with nothing that was close. Keep us all posted if you find anything that gives hope…..

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            This looks suspiciously like the case I was talking about having read a cite about, so many years ago. But still, I specifically remember that the cite I read was regarding a juror not a judge. Which, of course, makes less sense, because a fixed single juror would only guarantee a mistrial, not an acquittal. Still, I can see that a court might not accept that as jeopardy sufficient to satisfy the law, so my search continues.

            In any event here’s that case:

            During the late 1980s, investigators started Operation GamBat, an extensive investigation into decades of corruption and mob ties inside the Chicago court system. In February 1990, fearing prosecution from his actions during the 1977 Logan trial, retired judge Frank Wilson shot himself to death at his Arizona retirement home.[6]

            In 1991, Aleman pleaded guilty to extorting money from bookmakers Anthony Reitinger and Vince Rizza in 1972. Aleman was convicted and was sentenced to 12 years imprisonment. In 1993, based on Robert Cooley’s testimony, Aleman was re-indicted for the 1972 Logan slaying.[7] In 1997, Aleman was convicted of the Logan murder and sentenced to 300 years in state prison. Aleman’s re-trial and subsequent conviction are historic as he is the first American to be retried for murder following a fraudulent first trial. This was first profiled in 2002 and verified on the A&E Television Network/Biography Channel program “American Justice”/“Notorious,” and later on the National Geographic Channel documentary: “National Geographic: Inside” – “Chicago Mob Takedown” in 2011. The retrial, however, does not constitute double jeopardy. The United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit ruled original trial presided by Judge Frank Wilson was a sham – because the acquittal was guaranteed by the bribe he accepted.[8] This Fifth Amendment ruling was named Harry Aleman vs. Judges of the Criminal Division, Circuit Court of Cook County, Illinois, et al., 1998. The ruling basically means that if in a bench trial the defendant is found not guilty, but evidence shows that an act of bribery took place between the defendant and the judge, the defendant can be retried again for the same crime and it would not be considered double jeopardy. This is because the defendant was never in jeopardy to begin with.

  12. LiveByTheGulf says:

    Here’s our chance gang.
    Someone above gave the link about Jury Tampering:
    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/20/new-accusations-against-zimmerman-jurors-as-sheriffs-office-admits-it-allowed-unsupervised-access/

    The Author: Nathaniel Downes. Nathaniel Downes is the son of a former state representative of New Hampshire, now living in Seattle Washington.

    IMPORTANT – In the article:
    “The failure to supervise has now resulted in a potential legal nightmare for the state of Florida, which can be held liable for failing to properly ensure an untampered jury. Add to it the money that juror B37 could anticipate from such a book deal, which would be worth far more if given a not-guilty verdict than otherwise, and we are looking at a potential post-trial jury payoff negotiated through the husband.

    REALLY _ REALLY – IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!
    In response to whether the Zimmerman trial can be retried, Nathan replies:
    “Actually yes, it can. In cases of jury tampering, the entire verdict can be thrown out and the whole case retried, per the laws of the state of Florida.”
    “I checked the books, Florida has a statute of up to three years for such a mistrial declaration.”

    Professor Leatherman, can you check Florida law to see if a George Zimmerman retrial is really possible within three years after the trial in the case of jury tampering – according to FLORIDA law? Or show us how to do it.

    • LiveByTheGulf says:

      Nathan’s comment about a retrial is in the comment section: Four hours ago from 4:46pm blog time.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        “Blog time” …….I like that.

      • crazy1946 says:

        If you look below, I found a similar comment on another site! I can not think of any way a law like that could be in effect, it would be in contrast to the constitutional law……

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Wow. This could be interesting!

    • crazy1946 says:

      I looks like the judicial over ride law only provides for a judge to change the punishment portion of a jury verdict and not the actual verdict! Y’all dig and come back and tell me I am reading this wrong! This is one time I would like to be wrong……

      • KateW says:

        I seriously doubt they will do anything about this. This case was tainted from the start. The only other recourse is for the family to go after the state on this alleged jury tampering. And they should.

  13. KateW says:

    <object width="420" height="245" id="msnbc97543b" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yup. I live in an LA suburb in a neighborhood that’s 80% Latino, black, Asian, and Arabic (was all white 40 years ago when my parents first moved there), and I’ll verify that most brown folks around here aren’t too thrilled about Fogen pursuing a brown kid and gunning him down.

    • ladystclaire says:

      That is SWEET and, my heart felt thanks goes out to these Latino sisters and brothers.

  14. Malisha says:

    OMG DOJ has GOT to investigate this cover-up.

    BTW I came back from the demonstration. LOTS OF PEOPLE showed, all very serious, all down with it, completely. A bit too religious for my taste, but that’s OK. The general understanding was that they want hate crime charges against Fogen and nobody is fooled by this idea that there was a fair trial. Very productive. August 24, 2013 BIG MARCH ON WASHINGTON. Very important to attend if possible.

    I was disappointed that there was not a call for DOJ to investigate the COVER UP that amounted to a denial of civil rights “under color of state law.” No speaker calling for DOJ investigation of the SPD, WOlfinger, the prosecutor’s office, FDLE, the other collaborators. Mine was the only sign in the entire field mentioning cover-up. Several people wanted pictures of my sign but no news agencies snapped it. On one side it was white on black, saying “COVER UP” with the red circle slash as in “NO MORE COVER UP.” On the other side it was black on white, again, the red circle-slash “COVER UP” and it said “DOWN WITH THE COVER UP” with big arrows going down. When people came over to talk about it I discussed the cover-up with them and they were of one mind about it: it was an obvious cover-up starting with the SPD and spreading out from there. One quote: “If you didn’t have these murders covered up so much, Trayvon Martin would’a made it home that night.”

    • KateW says:

      I am glad to hear it went well. I would have loved to go. I was wondering how things were going but it’s been very quite, and what I mean by that is that there is no coverage that I have seen except from some folks here and there on social media. I hope this is not going to die down and drown out like most other cases of crimes against African Americans, where there is initial outrage that quells and fades away all together. We need to keep this going and stay on top of the NAACP and other organizations pushing for the DOJ investigation.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Well the hit’s on my evidence pile says it’s not either going away or quieting down. 1400 hits yesterday and over 400 today so far. Two days ago the number of hits was declining, so I was afraid things might just go away. That doesn’t seem to be the case so far. People are reading the evidence to see what happened.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thanks for your feedback. I wanted to go to my local gathering, but thought it started at noon but found it was a nine to noon thing. Too early for me on Sat.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Nor did the prosecution defend any of Trayvon’s rights not to be put in fear for his life. 784.048 – – 2011 Florida Statutes – The Florida Senate

      gz knew that he had made the child fearful and he reports that the child had run away from him.

      Whatever Trayvon did is of no concern, since he had no way to defend himself, other than to try to escape the unwanted attention of a stranger who had followed him by car.

      My guess is that, upon realizing that he could not make it home, without his white sneakers and light colored pants being see, if the stalker came out of his vehicle, Trayvon immediately went into hiding, because there was no defense or protection offered by getting home with the stranger still following him. Instead, that would only have made matters worse, with only another child in the house and no adults around.

      Trayvon believed that he had lost the stalker, but it’s possible that, him being distracted by his phone call, he simply had not noticed him. Thus, he decided to start moving again and then noticed that the stalker was behind him again. Anyone who has watched shows like Criminal Minds, Bones, and CSI, knows what such stalkers can do! Thus, the kids have a name for them “creepy assed crackers”, meaning dangerous criminal stalker.

      When cornered, Trayvon knows he’s out matched, having never engaged in mortal combat before, and he’s faced by an older, larger and heavier adult stranger. No one in their right mind would strike such a fellow, for fear of causing a terrible retaliation they had no power to resist. So he pleads “Why are you following me?” in the hope that there is some reassuring answer. Instead he is met with the rejoinder: “What are you doing around here?” Which, for a black kid can only mean that, this white man is angry that a black kid is someplace where he does not allow them to be.

      Trayvon’s ear buds are pulled away and his phone is knocked to the ground. In the rain, no kid would drop his phone on wet grass, if he had a choice he would pocket it. Obviously he had no choice in the matter. That’s simply common sense. gz is heard grabbing Trayvon and Trayvon responds with “get off, get off”. But gz has no intention of getting off, so the kid falls to the ground in hopes that this action will break gz’s grip on his clothing and allow him to flee.

      But gz holds on and goes to the ground with him, leaving Trayvon in a much worse position than before. In close contact grappling with a heavier, older and angry stranger who refuses to let him go. gz rolls onto his back to break his fall, and pulls Trayvon down on top of him briefly. Then as Trayvon once again tries to rise and break free, gz yanks him down and rises up on top of him, applying some kind of painful hold that causes Trayvon to howl in pain.

      This happens in the 31 seconds between Rachael’s call disconnecting and the start of a witnesses 911 call. Witnesses are coming out and going back inside, But they are talking to gz, where is the time for any assault? It never happened, which is why Trayvon’s hands nor sleeves show any evidence of it. It is pure fiction. But in this brief period when gz realizes he won’t be seen, he draws his gun, aims it and fires the deadly kill shot. Then claims that the blood on his head and face were the result of being battered.

      But he is a criminal stalker, he has been warned, time and again about such conduct. It is against the law for him to cause anyone to fear for their own safety. But no one has stood up for this fact!
      gz was a criminal when he first cause this child to run away from him. So he has no self defense claim at all, yet they allowed a jury to consider the matter as if there was no violation of Trayvon’s rights at all. They did not ask the jury to consider if gz had a right to cause the child to fear for himself. But only to decide if his injuries were sufficient to justify taking a life.

      Did gz’s injuries come from Trayvon? The question was never asked or answered. Was Trayvon given reason to fear for his life? The question was never considered! The evidence was never explained. The jury was given a miasma of claims, some hearsay, some false, but were never told which was which, and they also may have heard things outside of the courtroom, that they also considered in judging the case. This was not a real trial, it was a sham trial! As such, gz faced not even single jeopardy at all. Therefore a mistrial should be declared and a proper retrial held.

  15. degraveegmailcom says:

    Re. the above video I am only @ 10.33 and allready there are several things that do not go down well with me what this jury consultant is saying but this last expanation takes the cake!
    She starts by saying most women have been followed so can relate.But she continious ernestly,they would not turn around and ask “why are you following me?” they would run up to the nearest lit up front door and ask for help.

    1-A women been followed is not the same as being followed after being assesed as a crimimal fugitive.
    2-Trayvon was cornerned even a women would say something in that case.
    3-what lit up front door?

    Hello!

    Damn.

    • Malisha says:

      If Trayvon had run up to a door and yelled help, Fogen would have shot him in the back and gotten off for protecting those people in the house from being attacked by a thug. Black 17-year-olds know better than to run up to doors and bang on them. This just shows how CONVENIENT racism is. It’s like people saying that the poor have only themselves to blame for not having money to retire: “They should have set up an IRA.”

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Exactly!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I lived in FL over 20 years ago in my late 30s and although I’m a white woman, I’m not sure I’d run up to a house and bang on the door if someone were following me. People are too wary and jumpy and you might just get yourself shot by a homeowner.

      • aussie says:

        Mu auntie, a white women, then in her late 60’s, was mugged and assaulted getting into her car at a railway station parking lot, about 10 pm. She ended up with a fractured jaw and fractured cheekbone,. among other things.

        In shock, she started driving around, and TWO houses with all the lights on ignored her knocking and calling for help. She eventually got helped by someone just getting out of their car, who could see the condition she was in.

        A good suburb with no dangerous people in it.

        People just don’t want to get involved.

    • MDH says:

      Women don’t ????

      One time I was jogging on the four mile run trial at night and due to my soft stride overtook and surprised a women, She turned and faced me with a combat stance. I put up both hands and said “sorry, I did not mean to startle you”.

      Which leads to another flaw in this consultants logic.

      Why did GZ not just say “hey, I mean you no harm, I am a NW captain, and need to keep and eye on new people in our community”

      Instead he says “why are you here?”

      I would have been shot just like Trayvon in that my response to the very rude “why are you here?” would have been “that is none of your GD business”

      • bettykath says:

        I think a lot of assertive women would have been shot by fogen.

      • sparger says:

        George didn’t identify himself because the confrontation would have been over. George wouldn’t be a hero. One of two things would have happened and he knew it. If the kid belonged there he would tell him so. If George was right and the kid was a criminal he would leave without committing a crime. Either way its over. George is a sad pathetic man.

        • bettykath says:

          fogen didn’t have to identify himself. Cops don’t do that. Cops ask questions they don’t answer them. You know who thought he was a cop.

  16. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    I tell you what, if I were in a crisis or emergency type situation that required team effort to save lives, I’d rather have Rachel on my team than any of those jurors. I wouldn’t even consider them.

  17. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    I remember the prosecutors telling the jurors to use their common sense, well…evidently, none of the jurors had any common sense. No one armed with a gun against someone who is unarmed would be screaming for help. Any child would be frighten by a stranger following them by car and then by foot. It is impossible for anyone to grab a gun that is positioned behind a person’s back while sitting on top of them. To aim a gun he had to have some room to do that. Who in the world does not struggle to get someone’s hands off their nose? Self-preservation is a law of nature. A normal human being would be biting, kicking and putting up some type of resistance in order to breathe. I know what it’s like to not be able to breathe and it’s not a pleasant feeling and most people like me do every thing in their power to remedy that feeling.

    But in those jurors’ mind gz just laid there immobile, until he grabbed his gun and shot Trayvon. That goes against any type of common sense. Even a toddler would have been fighting to remove someone’s hands off their nose, that’s is a common human reaction. Every action results in a reaction.

    The defense told the jurors not to use their common sense and they went for it hook, line, and sinker. Why? Because they let their prejudice views and belief in stereotypes blind them and render them deaf and dumb to common sense. Smh! These were supposed to be educated people. Smh! B37 must have gotten her degree at Sears and Roebuck because she gives dummy a new meaning. A bunch of winos off the street would have made a better decision than that jury did. Even Rachel had more common sense than the jurors had and she is a kid. But, people publicity ridiculed her and made fun of her lack of education. Funny how that works out. Rachel proved to be the one that had more common sense than those jurors all put together, so I agree with her, she did win the battle…the battle of common sense.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I despair. This decision was a made for America TV movie verdict – all about capitalism out of control, about mine, mine, mine and me, me, me. No deep thought, no common sense, no reverence for life. These people are morally bankrupt.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Good evening to one granny from another granny. It is my belief that Fogen had that gun out the entire time and, this is why Trayvon was screaming like he was. that kid was screaming for help and, no body came to his aid.

      Of course we all know, there were some RTL neighbors right out side, when he held Trayvon at gunpoint and when he pulled that trigger. shame on those six “BITCHES” for allowing him to get away with murder.

      I don’t have to ask or wonder about James Holmes, he will be found guilty and it’s a done deal in his case. you see, his victims were white so, he will not go free.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yes, and these same people claimed that the knew gz, because they recognized his voice on tape!!! How could they recognize his voice on tape and not recognize the real voice in real life? Yet, their first impression is that it was a child screaming, but they refused to go outside and help him. They had to have known it was gz with his gun out there.

  18. longtimegeek says:

    Here’s a great discussion with Jim Clemente, a retired FBI agent and current advisor, writer and producer for the TV series “Criminal Minds.” It’s long: 51 minutes. He says that racial profiling is the opposite of criminal profiling, which I find particularly interesting since “racial profiling” was changed to “profiling” during the trial. He thinks the prosecution made many major mistakes.

    • bettykath says:

      A bit of work to find the correct video but it’s Excellent.

    • bettykath says:

      He explains that criminal profiling is taking the information from the crime and working back to what the characteristics of the criminal. Racial profiling is what fogen did and he uses gz’s many calls that were all reports of male AAs. He never saw any whites or Hispanics acting suspiciously, only Black men.

      He also points out the many shortcomings of the prosecution. One that I saw immediately was how BDLR put down Rachel in his closing, rather than building her up. Bad Bernie.

  19. Girlp says:

    MD and GZ mental health issues…I still believe race had a lot to do with this. http://themodernmedicineman.com/not-race-but-mental-illness-the-phenotype-that-is-george-zimmerman/

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Although the White House Trayvon petition is down to just a paltry few hundred sigs per day, interest in the facts of the case seem to be growing big time, so far. My evidence pile wracked up over 1400 views yesterday, more than double my highest viewership during the trial.

      O’Mara’s sidewalk weapon is as stupid as “the giant snow crab causing thunder by falling out of bed”. Attempts to thuggify Trayvon fail, because he’s not part of any thug or criminal culture, and minor school infractions do not a thug make. Finally there is no evidence of bullying. Trayvon’s days were filled with talking with innocent friends, going to movies and watching tv, playing video games and visiting, helping family members. There is no gun culture present, nor any radical group connections at all. He simply wasn’t interested in politics, racial issues or crime, he had no connections to any people who were. We know that thugs usually have such connections in such large quantities that they cannot be concealed.

      While gz on the other hand appears to be crazed with police, power, law enforcement authority and law. As well as engaged in playing politics within the law enforcement community. He also has a history of furthering the law enforcement supported view that blacks are the cause of crime, thus he makes it his business to complain about blacks, knowing such reports have a willing audience ready to receive them.

  20. bettykath says:

    I posted this after this thread was opened.

    I just listened to Obama’s speech. He is the first President to be able to say “I know what Black men in this country go through.” I repeat: He said, “I know what Black men in the country go through.” And he is the only president who could say this.

    “I have been followed in department stores” “I have heard the click of door locks when I cross the street.” “I have seen white women nervously clutch their purses in the elevator until they can get off.” This is an important part of the dialog.

    This kind of dialog would not have happened if fogen had been found guilty. The President mentioned Trayvon and his family. His parents were characterized as having grace and dignity. At no point did he mention fogen!

    • longtimegeek says:

      It was an amazing and frank speech in so many ways. It went from TM could have been my son to TM could have been me 35 years ago. People need to know and need to talk about it. Stop ignoring the racism. I hope actions follow the President’s words.

      • It’s also what I said nearly a week ago:

        “That said, I have learned a lot through all of this. And not just that racism has no reason and therefore needs no reasonable doubt. But from the beginning, I was under the mistaken impression that President Barack Obama was saying in his statement in March of last year that if he had a son he would look like Trayvon Martin, that he empathized with the Fulton/Martin family rather than his killer’s family, translating to the country that Obama empathized with black people, but not others, particularly his half white self. That was a problem. But in actuality he was saying Trayvon Martin could have been him. But that potential was lost. And were the world actively trying to make another Barack Obama, it might be noble to say.”

        https://frederickleatherman.com/2013/07/14/a-remorseless-child-killer-is-a-free-man-today-in-sanford-florida/#comment-203776

    • SearchingMind says:

      Betty, thanks for the good summary. But, until the US DOJ indicts Zimmerman, I shall refuse to listen to what POTUS has to say. That’s my bottom line. After that indictment, I might consider taking a look at what happened to POTUS many, many, many many years ago. NO indictment of Zimmerman, no listening to POTUS :).

      • type1juve says:

        SM, I agree with you on this. I’m tired of empty words and platitudes, I need to see some action from the leaders of this country indicating that they give a damn about minorities being killed for no reason other than their race. I want to see Fogen indicted as he should be. It is a good thing that many of us are openly discussing race and while privilege and that needs to continue if we are to advance in this country. At the same time we can’t continue to allow people like Fogen to get away with murder and chalk it up to “justice being served.”

      • There’s not much he can do. Obama really sounded helpless in his speech.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I agree SearchingMind, I feel that Obama’s little talk was more on the lines of telling those of us, who still want this swollen pig face justice foe what he did to a child, that he’s not going to do a thing. mean just because he can’t get any respect from the republicans, that is no reason for him to turn his back on this kid. he knows damn well that he has the power to bring civil rights violations against this PIECE OF SHIT but, he won’t because he is worried about what those who don’t like him, will feel. Hell, they don’t like him now so what’s the damn big deal?

        I believe that until they take Fogen to task and slap him with a hate crime charge, people are going to really amp up their civil unrest and, they will IMO be right to do so. I say this because, the state of Florida turned their collective backs on Trayvon and, it is very evident that there was some monkey business going on during this entire incident and even more so during the farce of a trial.

        How many of you think that Angela Corey did indeed talk to Fogen, when he called her and, then he ends up driving to Jacksonville? I believe she DID. she talked to him to discuss the fix other wise, why would he up and drive that distance if she refused to talk to him on the phone? call me stupid if you want to but, I beleive that happened.

  21. longtimegeek says:

    I posted this link at the end of the last thread. I’d thought I’d re-post it here in case some of you missed it. It’s an interesting discussion with a jury consultant about the jury and B37. It’s long, about 44 minutes. It’s from one of the channels on The Young Turks Network. I’ve been really impressed with this network, and I really like their style, especially on the main channel.

  22. SearchingMind says:

    I disagree, Eugene

    “We’re the ones that failed. Not us specifically, but the people who knew and understood the truth and common sense and had the format to speak out about it. We let another narrative take place so we can avoid calling what we are seeing what it really is.”

    This argument doesn’t follow. “We failed”, but then “not us specifically” failed but “the people” that are not ‘we’ who knew and understood the truth and common sense and had the format to speak out about it”. So, who failed: “We” or “the people who knew…” or “they” (used elsewhere in the post) or all three? Who is/are “we”? Who is/are “they”?

    “We let another narrative take place so we can avoid calling what we are seeing what it really is”. How so?

    “But the worst is that the champions of justice worked hand over fist to hide the blatant murder of a child. And we never made that argument. So this is another case of where Stockholm Syndrome by blacks prevented blacks from getting justice.”
    What is the basis for the assertion that “we never made that argument” (assuming we know who the “we” is/are)? Where and how does “Stockholm Syndrome by blacks” fit into all these and how has “Stockholm Syndrome” “prevented blacks from getting justice”?

    I guess I find the claims you make and the connections between them extraordinary. There are only but three entities that could have- and did fail Trayvon: (a) the prosecutors, (b) Judge Nelson and (c) the jury – most especially. They all failed. We certainly did not. Non-State actors who cared about what happened to Trayvon did all they could to bring Zimmerman to justice, tehy did not let the media tell- or convince them of anything and could not force the media to do what the media did not want to do. Nor did the media fail by, IMO, seeking a misplaced / false “balance” in reporting about the case. Fortunately in the United State we have a free, non-State owned press that partakes in the economic traffic as a full-fledged private, free enterprise. Just like an entrepreneur, e.g. a restaurant owner is free to decide whether or not pizza- and if yes what kind and size is served in his restaurant, the media can choose whether or not to publish anything regarding any issue (of public interest), the timing and the manner of its publication, the content of its publication and the goal thereof. The media is as free as any natural person in the exercise of its will and pursuit of economic and commercial goals and thus has no legal or contractual obligation to satisfy the need(s) of any individual or group of individuals, ethnic- or racial minorities, State- and/or federal government(s), or even to invest as much time and energy as the Professor has done to untangle the web of Zimmerman’s lies and report the facts as they (i.e. the facts) are known to everybody on this blog. Heck, the media has the right to report its own version of the “truth” to the detriment of what all of us would consider the hard-concrete-baton truth. Such is the prize for freedom of the press. The media was just the media and did not fail (unless you can show what the objective obligations of the media are and how those were violated). And there certainly is no media conspiracy you imply, IMO.

    • concernedczen says:

      ” There are only but three entities that could have- and did fail Trayvon: (a) the prosecutors, (b) Judge Nelson and (c) the jury – most especially. They all failed. We certainly did not. ”

      I agree and would add the Sanford Police Department to that

  23. ay2z says:

    Shocking reality for women who would dare report a rape. Even with the rapist charged and sentenced, the woman is arrested and charged for having sex outside marriage (aka rape)

    By that same ‘logic’, fogen might find a way to sue Trayvon through his estate, for being part of his own murder. If he gets immunity, that might follow. O’heartless seems the ‘man’ for the job.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448

    • SearchingMind says:

      The ‘Sharia’ is a backward, primitive “law” that is based on archaic religious dogmas that always has insane/sickening consequences upon they on whom it is applied to determine criminal culpability and punishment. It is well documented and settle that the Sharia is a woman’s worst nightmare. The irony though is that our Western law that came to exist through a rigorous, well tested system of rules and procedures of science can at times, like the Sharia, produce the same primitive results as evidenced in the acquittal of the Butcher of Sanford, Florida, aka George Zimmerman.

    • After Fogen’s case, I don’t believe anything that comes from the mouths of Sanford PD.

    • Lynn says:

      “According to the arrest report from the Sanford Police Department, Bonaparte’s mother told police he told her to kill herself and threatened to kill her.”

      Sooo…If I were to get mad at someone and say, “F### YOU! Go F### YOURSELF!” Would I be arrested for rape because it was “told” and “threatened”?

      SMH

  24. crazy1946 says:

    Professor Leatherman, Tee brought up a good point that I had not considered before. Juror b37 did make the comment that they considered the SYG law in their deliberations. Could this have been the way MOM bypassed the SYG hearing allowing him to file a motion for immunity from legal action in civil court for the Fogdoit? This again adds one more reason to suspect that the fix was in before the case even started. It does look like MOM found/produced the loop hole in the law that he wanted…. the bad part is, he did it right under our noses…… He told us he would hold the SYG hearing during the trial and I suppose he did in a subtle way……

    • ay2z says:

      Always thought this is what would happen. No testimony required, pre-trial lawyer driven social media spin, exposures of irrelevant information, photos, documents, jyping the demonize the victim, and saturate the jury pool with this, as well as with whatever the main stream media would play along for them and repeat often.

      The defendant never had to tell his story to the judge, never had to be put on the stand or demonstrate under oath. Nothing outside court matters for self-serving statements. SYG without risk, and he may get immunity based on his non-testimony, non-court statements under no oath, on national tv shows.

      What court will now grant immunity without talking to the defendant? Maybe it will be a set up as a softball toss so fogen can pass and be immune from prosecution.

    • Crazy1946 Professor Leatherman and fauxmccoy latest post about the subject,,,,,,,

      fauxmccoy says:
      July 17, 2013 at 3:13 pm

      if you win your SYG hearing, then there is no jury trial, obviously. if the judge denies SYG then it does go to jury trial. i don’t see anything (so far) in the standard jury instructions which reference any instruction related to SYG, so far, all i am finding is the standard ‘justifiable homicide’ instructions. although my search is not complete, i see no “SYG’ jury instruction.
      Reply

      Frederick Leatherman says:
      July 17, 2013 at 3:19 pm

      You won’t find any because it’s a pretrial hearing before the judge.

      fauxmccoy says:
      July 17, 2013 at 3:22 pm

      which is exactly what i was trying to explain in my original post there would be none because SYG is never presented to a jury.

      • Tee says:

        It was not presented but the jury used it juror b37 said so.

        • Girlp says:

          That is outside what was presented at trail the jury can’t add SYG. Remember the jn’s instruction, they are not to reasearch anything regarding this case they are only to consider what is presented at trail.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Perhaps the information so far provided is accurate, in that this ploy is not possible, however with what we have seen with the lack of legal ethics from MOM and the State of Florida Judicial System so far, I suspect this is their answer to the Fogdoits SYG immunity……

      • bettykath says:

        SYG was presented in other clothing. The lack of initial aggression being a reason that self defense cannot be claimed ended up being SYG without being called that. Thanks to JN who refused to allow it.

  25. Malisha says:

    NO MORE COVER-UP is the biggest piece of attacking the “Murder is free” policy.

    NO MORE COVER-UP would mean everybody who took part in the charade — exposed.

    I believe BDLR’s award ceremony should be picketed with big signs: “Softie Prosecutor: NO REBUTTAL?”

    How many of BDLR’s 49 successful murder prosecutions were BLACK MEN? Can he convict a white man in Florida?

    • crazy1946 says:

      Malisha,
      “How many of BDLR’s 49 successful murder prosecutions were BLACK MEN? Can he convict a white man in Florida?”

      I would be more interested in knowing how many of his convictions were of innocent people! When they are guilty whether their skin color is white, black, or even green, they need to be punished via a fair justice system. I realize that the just-us system in Florida is broken, but that does not mean that all people of any color have been wrongly convicted….

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I found it at least a little bit encouraging that Corey and BDLR came out for an interview to call Fogen a murderer and a liar. I know, I know, not enough . . .

  26. Tee says:

    I try to clear my mind every time I hear about this case. I try to block out some of those emotions because they are just to strong and i’m afraid they’ll take over the logical side of me. I ask myself everyday “what can I do to make this world better how can I make my voice, my life count. I think my first that my first order of business will be to be to use the organization I’m affiliated with to start a protest against SYG laws. Let our congress know that if this law is not repealed they won’t be in office next election that includes every governor & mayor that back this law. The NRA may have millions of members but their are more of us then them, it’s time for action. I heard juror b37 interview when that woman said that they consider SYG law while making their decision. SMDH!

    • Malisha says:

      SYG law is only a codification of a tiny part of the problem. SYG did not even apply in this case but was trumpeted, from the beginning, as if it did.

      Freedom to abuse and even freedom to kill is the issue.

      A person is free to hate. No person is free to act on his hate.
      That’s where we find the problem. The whole South and much of the rest of the country does presently feel enabled (especially by the gun laws and the gun culture) to act on its hate. THERE NEED to be negative consequences for doing so. This trial let one murderer off so he had no negative consequences for murder OR for hate; we need to correct that if possible.

  27. KateW says:

    I know we should be able to talk about it but I think we should go to radio silence on the DOJ issue and silently keep pressure on the administration to act through organizations like the NAACP. This is why we had the debacle with the trial. Too much information circulating and being talked about and people get wind and start chopping things up with sound bites and spin. Well his team of lawyers anyway.

    • Malisha says:

      But I no longer believe there is any power in any organization silently using “pressure” because everything is now money. If the Govt sees that it cannot get away with something, that there will be negative consequences that WILL COST MONEY, that there will be unintended consequences that will COST VOTES, that there can be any kind of unintended consequences (and silence is not a good one), then they are forced to act.

      We are not dealing with a benign, problem-solving govt now, as if we ever were. We are dealing with a hard-ball-playing uncaring political monstrosity, ALL OF IT AT ALL LEVELS, and we need to make it clear that certain results are not going to be accepted, PERIOD.

      • KateW says:

        I think so too but the outcry and the rush to push the case somewhat fell back on the state.

        I just thought working quietly and diligently behind the scenes is better than telling the possible defendant what the next move is because that is how his defense team was able to play this in the media for over a year and a half, spinning the evidence to their favor.

        I am not saying we should be silent in regards to the movement, OH NO. I also believe dialoguing is not going to really move anything as good as actions. Anderson Cooper had a great panel on last night regarding race in America and how we change it or perspectives. BUt how many times have we had this conversation? Too many times. I think we need to keep rallying, marching, writing our President or states person, staying in touch with the NAACP and other organizations to let them know this is important to us and we are not going, as I keep hearing the bigots say, “let it go” or “move on”.

    • crazy1946 says:

      KateW, If we are enticed to be silent for that reason, would/could that not be considered censorship by fear? Should we be afraid that what we say will be used in some way against our cause? If we do go into “radio silence” will that allow the other side to win by default? Will this “radio silence” allow the DOJ to think it is safe to bury this case in the cold case files? Is our having been somewhat silent for the last 15 or so years worked in our efforts to bring racial equality to all people in this nation? I can think of two old saying that should be mentioned. “Silence is Golden” and “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”, which one do you feel would be most beneficial to the nation at this time?

      • KateW says:

        My reply above you explains what I meant. I think you beat me to the post it button. 🙂

        • crazy1946 says:

          KateW, I do understand your position on giving information to the defense being counter productive, but that is not what caused the loss of this case! Where we failed as a movement was in failing to respond adequately to the BS that MOM was feeding the public on a daily basis. Yes we discussed his actions here, but how much effort was made to get our side into the Main Street Press? We moaned and we groaned but we failed to scream loud enough to be heard by John Q. Public! We can blame others all we want, bottom line is we lost the first battle, but the war is not over and we do have the ability to win the war, but do we have the stamina to do so? Do we allow the opposition to make the news in their favor? Or do we counter punch each and every time they try to use the press? Be silent if you wish, but I refuse to let trash like the Fogdoit/MOM silence my voice….. They may limp, but they will not run with us as a thorn in their foot!

          • Malisha says:

            “Information given to the defense” doesn’t matter. They make UP information so there is no integrity to the “information factor.” Just play to win. All we need to do is to win, and obviously, by any [legal] means necessary. Now’s the time, for instance, to unabashedly demolish Fogen in the media. Show him to be cowardly is a good start because those bigots and profogenites like to think of themselves as brave and tough so they do NOT like “he’s a wus” and obviously, he is.

  28. KateW says:

    Perhaps it was a good thing. If that information, about race, were brought up in the trial, would they have been able to use it in a civil case?

    • Malisha says:

      Nothing is ruled out in the civil case just because it appeared or did not appear in the criminal case. In the criminal case, the parties are different, the law is different, the burden of proof is different, and the “damages” are different.

      Criminal: Parties are the state and the defendant; burden of proof is on the plaintiff/state by standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt”; result is punishment as law provides or NO punishment

      Civil: Parties are whoever (plaintiffs) sues whomever (defendants); burden of proof is preponderance of the evidence (51%); result is damages, as in amount of money, and very rarely, some kind of “prospective relief” like an injunction.

      • KateW says:

        Ok thanks for educating me.

      • pat deadder says:

        Will omara and west be fogen’s lawyers in the civil suit.Will there even be a civil suit.If by some miracle DOJ does anything will they wait till after civil suit.Sorry maybe dumb questions

    • Yes. The same rules of evidence apply in criminal and civil proceedings. Admissibility initially depends on relevance and relevance depends on the elements of the cause of action that the plaintiff must prove by a preponderance of the evidence.

      If the defendant has asserted an affirmative defense (i.e., a defense that it has the burden of proving by a preponderance), relevance depends on the elements of that affirmative defense.

      In other words, relevance always depends on the elements of a cause of action and affirmative defense in a case, whether criminal or civil.

      The cause of action in a criminal case is the crime charged. In a civil case, it may be a tort, such as defamation or wrongful death, or a breach of contract, patent infringement, or the like. There are many different causes of action in civil cases.

  29. Sorry folks, off topic:

    Dear Vickie Pate, V.Pate or whatever your name really is, you pathetic miserable piece of shit cyber stalker, back in Fred’s spam queue, running your mouth:

    You have been blocked and reported on Twitter previously, and you are known in the internet community, just a head’s up, as a doxer who spreads non-stop invalid bullshit about people.

    The next time you show up in our spam queue we are going to take your IP, and your likely fake-ass email address to the law.

    Stay the hell away from us.

    Is there anything about those six words you don’t understand?

    #Banned.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Good morning Mz. Crane-Station….

    • KateW says:

      Fireworks in the mornin!! lol Crane-Station I don’t need to imagine what your going through because these bigots are all over the place. They have come out from under every slimy rock, crevice and sh*t hole to harass and flood these sites and blogs with ridiculous hate and spewing such garbage. It’s like Deliverance come to the internet.

      • Yes, it is, and this crazy bitch Vickie Pate needs some professional help or else a knock at her door, if it really is a she.

        We have made it clear in the past, at least I thought I did, by blocking and reporting her on Twitter, that we want absolutely no future contact from her. And yet, here she is. Okay, that’s a stalker who missed the clear message the first time.

        I believe this is the one who previously saw fit to publish our home address, along with some unbelievably asinine claim that we live on a vacant lot.

        This person is crazy and out of control.

  30. crazy1946 says:

    What will become of the Afro-Peruvian who murdered Trayvon Martin? Many have predicted that he will live a life of riches and luxury, some have wished that he would die quickly for his deed. The truth of what is likely to happen to him comes from the color of his skin and his true racial heritage. He and his lawyer concocted a story of how he was not a racist, because how could a person of Afro-Peruvian ancestry possibly be a racist, right? He will for a short time be the darling of the gun loving racist types, that is until he can be replaced with a pure white hero (Michael Dunn?). At this time he is needed by the right wing political agitators, because of the law suite he has filed against the alleged liberal press giant known as NBC. Watch this action very carefully, and if I am correct we will in a relatively short time (for a legal action) see a settlement of this claim by the Fogdoit and MOM. After this settlement set your watch and wait a short time and suddenly the Fogdoit will be out of the picture and back to being just a non white malcontent. He will have no more support (financial or otherwise) from those that presently give him money and glorify his actions. When he loses that income, and MOM ends up with all the money received from the action against NBC, he will no longer be able to hide from the public. At that point he will soon meet his demise, not from a person from the Trayvon Martin support group, but from one of his ex supporters, because he is no longer an asset for them, but instead a liability….. The very thing he used as in an effort to save himself will be the thing that brings about his end, that being the color of his skin…..

    One last little thing, don’t hold your breath waiting for the Fed’s to ride in like the cavalry and bring charges against the Fogdoit. They will do nothing until after the action against NBC is over, it is simply Politics are more important than Justice for Trayvon……

    • Good morning! I’ve been seeing websites of NBC and their affiliates that state NBC is vigorously defending the defamation suit Fogen brought against them. I don’t see how he’s gonna win it with him being a public figure, but who knows. I thought he would be in jail right about now, too.

      • crazy1946 says:

        I may be wrong, but I envision NBC settling the suit because it will cost more to fight it than settle it….. Hope I’m wrong on that… They could use the precedence that the FOX case brought about, IE: it is ok to lie because it is only the news as they see fit to report it… More of the Florida legal system at work!

        • lurker says:

          On the other hand, the same is true on Zim’s side and the deep pockets belong to NBC.

          • crazy1946 says:

            I’m sure that NBC is aware that the trial will be in Sanford, Florida. The trial will be in the court of Judge Nelson and decided by a jury owned by the Fogdoit… With that in mind, would you settle or take your chances with a jury that would be willing to murder you financially? This will be another example of good ole Florida Just-us!!!

          • Malisha says:

            The big difference, of course, is this:

            Criminal trial, state was represented by lawyers whose purpose it was to lose.

            NBC trial, the defendant (NBC) will be represented by lawyers whose purpose it is to win. Of course, their having fired people for disregarding Fogen’s white rights is a problem in their case. But I do not expect them to cave in or they can lose HUMDU which is the real commodity in this civil trial.

            HUMDU = Heterosexual Male Dominance Units.

      • Rachael says:

        Especially since he didn’t lose his case. Had he lost his case, he could blame them, but he didn’t, so it would be really hard to say anything he “suffered” would be as a result of them more than the BS that wasn’t censored from his own mouth (as in it WAS coons, NOT punks).

      • roderick2012 says:

        I don’t see how he’s gonna win it with him being a public figure, but who knows. I thought he would be in jail right about now, too.

        How George will win?

        The trial will be in Seminole County and Debra Nelson will be the judge.

        NBC will settle for around $10M!!

        • aussie says:

          Nah, he won’t win. NBC has money coming out of their ears, they can afford to fight. and they WILL, because (a) they did nothing wrong and (b) if they settle, every man and his dog will have a go for some easy free money. .

          It certainly wouldn’t cost them $10 mill to fight it, with fulltime employed in-house lawyers.

  31. pat deadder says:

    When is SZ perjury trial. Would it be a good idea to try and make sure she is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.I’m assuming she’ll just get a fine considering the way things have gone.I’m wondering about the relationship between her and the inlaws .

  32. MDH says:

    The reason race was not brought up is that there is a silly consensus amongst conservatives and liberals within the white community that only overt acts are racist and, if we all just do not talk about racism, then it will go away.

    One of the hallmarks of the great conservative salvation of the USA started by Saint Ronald Reagan was the rejection of rational thought and critical thinking which is the foundation of liberalism.

    It was replaced by faith based thinking:

    Just say the USA is the shining light on the hill and it will be so…

    Woe to the man who points out her flaws

    Just say free market and prosperity and economic justice will come to all….

    Woe to the man who says this is not so

    Just say we are post racial and there will be equal rights and justice for all men regardless of the color of their skin…

    Woe to the man who says there is racism

    • Malisha says:

      MDH, you say “there is a silly consensus amongst conservatives and liberals” —

      I agree with you about the consensus being there but I don’t characterize it as silly. I characterize it as DEADLY. To me, it goes like this:

      If WE great powerful and wonderful ones say racism is over,
      Then obviously racism is over,
      and we need not bother our little heads with it any more
      so we do not need to deal with the fact
      that whites can murder pBa-lacks and get away with it
      because that’s not racism
      that’s just law
      and we are a nation of laws
      and that makes us feel good
      when we know that if we admitted there was “still” racism,
      we would have to feel bad.

      I remember back in the early 90s I was organizing women in a small East Coast town and they had come together to support a mother whose daughter was being taken away from her because the daughter had disclosed sexual abuse and the social service agency thought that should not be an issue in the case. (Yes it happens. “Sexual abuse” was like “racism” in that regard. But instead of just getting called reverse-racists or getting mocked for it, mothers lost custody for it.) So we organized to try to help her and there were about 20 women in her living-room asking questions about what the were being asked to do to help. After about a half hour, I realized that most of them wanted to make little speeches about how bad it was so they could be recognized as right-thinking women, but they didn’t really WANT to do anything because they didn’t want to be thought of as “strident.” I gave my little speech.

      “Please, if you sign on for this, understand something: this is not an activity that you can join to make you feel good. It will make you feel BAD. You will feel angry and not be able to express it; you will feel outraged and have to sit in court silently with your mouth zipped about it; you will feel indignant and journalists will ignore you or call you names; you will be shouted down and ignored and mocked and kicked to the curb just as [the mother] has been. Don’t do this if it’s a “feel good” thing because it ISN’T. If you want to feel good, stay home and masturbate. If you want to work hard in spite of discouragement and demoralization and probable failure, let’s go.” They all felt sheepish and all of them signed on. Only two of them helped even in the smallest way.

      People generally don’t do things that make them feel bad. That’s why making people feel bad is a critical part of CONTROLLING people; if you do it for a while they will change their conduct to please you so you will stop making them feel bad.

      That’s what happened to the jury. B-37 and her co-nazis made the others feel bad and eventually bullied the hold-out so much she gave up so she wouldn’t feel bad any more.

      Saying there’s racism makes EVERYONE feel bad. We have a rotten country now because people are not willing to tolerate those feelings JUST to seek justice. What idiots like the Sanford criminals don’t understand is this:

      WHEN MURDER IS FREE,

      FREEDOM IS MURDERED.

      • MDH says:

        I tend to let sarcasm bleed into my prose.

        By “silly”, I meant “silly to deny that which is self evident to anyone engaging in the least amount of critical thought”.

        A very good point about the deadly aspect. I guess that flows from my points about faith based ideology supplanting reason and critical thought.

        I believe it was Thomas Paine who stated “my mind is my church”

        Lets us look at the trial.

        Who was Thomas Payne?

        Racheal?

        The Jurors?

        I say Racheal. Her head got bloodied, but remained unbowed.

        The jurors either were complicit or caved to a shitstem that is evil to it score.

      • Oftentimes, when I have no words to articulate my feelings, my soul moans and my body sways back and forth in agreement. Sort of like a breeze that blows on a patch of daisies and causes them to sway. After reading your post, I’m swaying like the daisies. Thank you, Malisha.

  33. Soulcatcher says:

    I don’t understand why the prosacution left out everything that had to do with race, and agreed to only use profiling instead of racial profiling. So what if is predjudicial to the the case, it is what it is, isn’t it predjudicial not to use it, to pretend that race is not a factor. Even his mother saying that’s no the way Georgie was raised. They go out of their way to show his AA roots to prove he can’t be a racist, and write a book stating how racist AA’s are. And then there is Jr.’s tweets of a picture states a 1000 words. I thought he wasn’t raised like that. I’ll bet if cousin thinks they are racist, there are other family members who would agree.

    Isn’t it funny that all his friends hear fucking goans, its funking cold, he says punks, and a couple of them didn’t hear it at all, it had to be played several times to even agree he said somthing, and none of them heard what most everybody hears, coons.

    Am I crazy, or do people call Nen, becasuse its raining, a person is walking slowly looking about, and they don’t look like they’re going for the mail, or athletic and training. How stupid does that sound. It’s that unusual for people to walk in the rain. Even fogen had to walk in the rain to get in his shruck to go to target. Why aren’t there call to Nen from people reporting him. There’s only one reason fogen would think he was suspicious, and that’s because he was black. And again, lets not make an issue of race. Why not, it is what it is. Lets just pretend it isn’t. People just close there eyes when they hear the word race, in their make believe world, in 1865 millions of slaves walked off the plantations and were free, we are all the same now.And as a bonus they got EEOC, and if you don’t like it just get on a boat and go back where you came from.

    • longtimegeek says:

      Stupid is as stupid does. Stupid is as stupid sounds. TM wasn’t walking too slowly or wearing too much hoodie or looking too thuggish or anything else. GZ was just randomly talking, because TM was black and GZ was bent on doing to him what he wanted to do to him. (Ugh. I have to take a moment.)

      Charles Blow, when talking about this case, said that ignoring race is racist. It was a simple and powerful way to put it. Racists want to ignore racism. Of course.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      I’m hearing impaired and with my headsets on I heard him say “coons” and there is no way possible that “punks” and coons sound alike. Heck, you learn what rhymes in elementary school. Sorry punks does not rhyme with coons. They’d been better off saying goons, but we know without a doubt that was not the case. The media reinforced gz’s lies.

      I’ve been told to go back to Africa many times if I don’t like it here, which I think is the most asinine statement because I’ve never been to Africa and nor was I born there. I’m Native American as are all people who were born in the USA and my grandmother was full blooded American Indian, so I have every right to be here. Therefore, folks who tell me that can shove it up where the sun don’t shine.

  34. KateW says:

    What ever happened to this guy? I do believe I heard the defense said the cousin would be prejudicial to the his criminal case; however, wouldnt her testimony be valid now with a civil rights case?

    Again, what about this guy?

  35. KateW says:

    GOODMORNING MY NIGHT OWLS!! WOOO WOOOO

    Hey…what ever happened to this guy? I am guessing the killer’s defense team objected to the cousin and this witness testimony for it would be prejudicial to his client? I don’t have to tell you what I am thinking. I am sure all of you intelligent, bright folks know why I am asking.

  36. fauxmccoy says:

    someone (wish i could remember who) posted a link to an internet radio program of tim wise being interviewed by nicole sandler and unfortunately, the link is not in service

    link to nicole’s show: http://radioornot.com/

    now i realize that most of do not need to listen to two white folks discussing race relations in america today, but there is value here. i can see myself forwarding this link to my mom or some friends who i think are capable of fully ‘getting it’ but aren’t quite there yet, not that anyone in my circle supports zimmerman, but just to provide a deeper understanding of the issues. i have long admired tim wise and discovered nicole sandler earlier this year. together, they provide some thought provoking moments.

  37. Soulcatcher says:

    If someones knows how to get a message to Racerrodig, please tell him to read my message re: Ocwen……Thanks

  38. Jun says:

    It also does not help that Florida is full of weirdos and idiots, especially Sanford

    The law is real fucked too

    Read up on Tony Hayward, he shot an unarmed kid too and all he told the court in Florida was, he was scared the kid was pulling a gun so he shot the kid and he was acquitted by a jury and Tony Hayward is black

    The story is similar to Michael Dunn’s claim because all he claimed was he thought the kids were pulling a gun on him so he shot and fired at the vehicle and took off

    this law places an unusually high burden on the state and an unfair hearing for the victim

    As for the Trayvon case, the state fucked up royally

    1) They should have fought harder throughout the hearings and jury selection as well as appeal the audio expert issue. I dont agree with the audio experts being thrown out.

    2) Why the hell were there no objections? They let the defense lead and speculate so much. They should also request the judge to unring bells and for the state to be allowed to rebut if a bell is rung.

    3) The defense opened the door on Fogen. Fucking use it!

    4) For Marissa Alexander, they argued forensics, ballistics, trajectory, negligence, intent. The state did not bother doing any of that here! Fogen targeted Trayvon and followed him in his car, and on foot, and on foot again, armed with a gun, flashlights. There was so much they used on Marissa, they could have used here.

    5) Why the fuck did they not bother arguing racial contexts of the case?

    6) No fight for the victim’s right to a fair hearing. If you say he’s dead and has no rights, well, he was alive when this happened so the rights still stand.

    7) The state did not bother putting together a storyline or theory to the crime.

    8) Aggravated stalking should have been argued.

    9) The jury instructions should have been argued and motioned to the higher court if there is a disagreement for the state. There was no talk of the victim’s right to stand his ground or the whole self defense law.

    10) There was so much evidence not used.

    11) No rebuttal.

    12) The state allowed way too much media circus smearing. Why not do the same crap back? Crump and his PR was available. Keep re-releasing experts to talk about the evidence in favor of Trayvon. Keep re-releasing the bad history of Fogen. Play dirty. Since no gag order, at least with that effort, there would have been an even ground of what the public thinks.

    13) Not enough objection or rebutting of authentication of Omara’s evidence.

    • lurker says:

      I believe that the state had three rebuttal witnesses disallowed. One was one of the BATFE agents who arrested gz for assault and resisting arrest.

      • Rachael says:

        Was he actually disallowed?

        • elcymoo says:

          No, he just wasn’t available when the prosecution needed him.

          • Olivia says:

            Surely, you can’t be subpoenaed to testify in a murder trial and then be permitted to not even show up.

            What sort of excuse could he have given for not showing up to testify?

            The only legitimate reason that I can think of would be if he was seriously injured or ill.

            If he needed/wanted to be out of the area, then why not tape his testimony for presentation to the jurors?

          • roderick2012 says:

            Olivia says:Surely, you can’t be subpoenaed to testify in a murder trial and then be permitted to not even show up.

            It’s that the same thing that happened when the officer Piglet assaulted didn’t show up to testify?

            Coincidence? I doubt it.

  39. lurker says:

    One thing is clear to me in terms of a greater justice at this point. Watching Trayvon’s parents, particularly his mother, in interviews this week, I have no doubt that they will find peace and purpose in moving forward.

    I see no such indicators among the Zimmermans. Instead I see reactionary denial, yes, blatant racism and fear.

    The Zimmermans have cast themselves as victims while the Fulton-Martins have sought to transcend their adversity.

  40. “Truth, crushed to earth, shall rise again;
    Th’ eternal years of God are hers;
    But Error, wounded, writhes in pain,
    And dies among his worshippers.” – William Cullen Bryant

  41. annahkonda says:

    Where is George Zimmerman? Does anyone know?

    • lurker says:

      Not only is he hiding, but his attorneys are pretty careful to keep him muzzled. They know it ain’t over yet.

    • john c. says:

      Word on the streets is that George Zimmerman is banging Casey Anthony and they plan to unleash a species of hell spawn child killers.

  42. kllypyn says:

    i have argued all those points mention in the above article.and was call a racist and other name buy the zimmerpukes.i did my best and failed.

  43. Girlp says:

    O’Mara seems to be over his head. His response is weak. I felt this was going to be more than he can handle; this is the Nation O’Mara not Seminole County.

  44. LiveByTheGulf says:

    Which picture of Doris Singleton is the truth?

    With metals. Picture with metals was on Free Republic as well.
    http://blogs.militarytimes.com/battle-rattle/2013/07/03/police-department-cancels-use-of-dod-ribbons-following-navy-cross-recipients-call/

    Doris Singleton in court without military metals.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Well, what if she WAS in the Occupation Army in Germany post-WWII? And gets to place the ribbon as if she’d gotten the Congressional Medal of Honor?

  45. I had a lot more examples that I’ve noted down early on last year. Cleaned out my tool box and wrote that down, I really didn’t have time to review and make more.

    • Excellent post! It brings to mind a quote by Coretta Scott King when she testified at her civil trial against Loyd Jowers in 1999 involving local, state and federal agents in the murder of her husband, Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

      “If we know the truth, we can be free to go on with our lives.”

  46. Malisha says:

    No matter how cynical you get, it’s impossible to keep up.

    Lily Tomlin

  47. Malisha says:

    TRUTH: Fogen did not get out of his schruck to look for an address.

    TRUTH: Fogen got out of his schruck to apprehend or restrain or stop and frisk or, if necessary, kill Trayvon Martin.

    TRUTH: Tim Smith did not ride Fogen to the station house in silence.

    TRUTH: On the way to the station house, in the squad car, Tim Smith and Fogen discussed how to get Fogen out of trouble because of the killing of Trayvon Martin.

    • john c. says:

      i have heard that police record the conversations inside the police car in case officers threaten or coerce the suspect. is there a recording available online somewhere?

    • looneydoone says:

      Malisha,
      Of course fogen and officer tim smith were chatting in the squad car (alone) during transport from crime scene to SPD headquarters.

      Officer Smith sought out Detective Singleton, prior to her interviewing fogen to advise her “this may be a case of self defense”

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Could it be that everyone from the governor to the SPD to the MMA gym is afraid of Fogen’s “laugh now, cry later” tattoo?

  48. Whoa, I was just checking the main board and that scared the heck out of me. BTW, uh “First”.

  49. EdgySF says:

    Anybody catch Obama’s impromptu race speech tonight? I hope it gets the white liberals in Florida who side with GZ something to think about

    • Tzar says:

      I don’t need speeches
      I don’t need outrage
      I need outrage severe enough to start an indictment
      otherwise, it is just words
      the balance remains tilted
      it can’t be righted with words or time
      we will not forget

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Good morning, Tzar!

      All of us pray for to see action and change.

      Words. My feeling is that it starts with words.

      MLK’s words: “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends” have remained in my heart since the day he first uttered them. His words have guided me. He is one of my important leaders.

      Our words based on our research of the evidence in this case have been used to stand up to the zimmies all over the web.

      President Obama’s words yesterday represent an historic moment in the history of our nation. He validated the AA experience of the ongoing effects of racism on the individual.

      Creolechild wrote that when “my son walked into room as I watched it and didn’t move until it was over. The look on his face afterwards was hard to describe. When he left the room I just broke down and cried because as his mother I know how much those words, coming from PBO meant to him.

      “It dawned on me that while family and friends are instrumental in building our children’s self-esteem and confidence, there is nothing more powerful to them than to hear the President say that he’s had some of the same experiences; they are valued, and he will do what he can to try to alleviate some of the burdens which they bear because they’re constantly bombarded with negative depictions of what others perceive them to be.”

      Our President basically said to his critics, “Ain’t nobody gonna turn me around” when he reinforced his words from a year ago by saying yesterday that if he were 35 years younger, he could be Trayvon.

      President Obama in his speech that we are NOT in post racial times: “The African- American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that – that doesn’t go away.”

      Here are some highlights of his speech:

      When you think about why, in the African-American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it’s important to recognize that the African- American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that – that doesn’t go away.
      .

      There are very few African-American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. And there are very few African-American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me, at least before I was a senator. There are very few African-Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.
      .

      The African-American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws, everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

      Full Transcript:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-remarks-on-trayvon-martin-full-transcript/2013/07/19/5e33ebea-f09a-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424_story.html

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Yes, it is important to back up our words.

        I have signed petitions, and today in a little more than 4 hours, I will be standing at our federal building, holding a sign, in an effort to bring about change.

        I also am daily examining myself with regard to my white privilege. I want the the self esteem that I possess to only be based upon honest qualities. Each day now, I ask myself what benefits of white privilege have contributed to my self esteem. I want to root those out and see who I am with regard to my self esteem after I NO LONGER allow those to unconsciously “boost” my self esteem. I have had experiences of being stunned during this examination.

        I admit that I am going to continually find out that I have unconscious racism embedded in me.

        I have a long way to go in this journey. It is a good journey. And along the way, I am going to be able to pass on to white friends and acquaintances the lessons I have learned and, hopefully, inspire them to examine their own white privilege.

        It is important for me to understand just what doors have been opened to me that have made possible my accomplishments.
        ………..Doors that have been closed to those without white privilege. And, then, to admire the MUCH MORE meaningful accomplishments of those who, without white privilege, nevertheless have managed to push through those doors.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

  50. LiveByTheGulf says:

    MOM & West steamrolled over the truth. This has happened before when conservatives pulled tricks at the voting booth – machines that didn’t work, wrong ballots, voting machines that registered conservative candidate when liberal candidate was chosen, only two voting machines with lines until 3 am.

    The next election, people came with cell phones to take pictures of anything out of line. People couldn’t get fooled again.

    So now this is happening in the courtroom. MOM planting a story and mistruths through the media. Keep saying the story over and over until people accept it as truth.

    I wondered during the trial, why are MOM and West working so damn hard – overkill. That indicated to me they were covering up the truth – if they promote the same lie over and over, and stick to their story – it will get accepted as truth. The prosecution was strangely silent a lot of the time.

    How do we not get fooled again.

  51. Trained Observer says:

    Except for the part about questioning Scott Peterson’s guilt, I agree in total.

  52. gbrbsbblogs says:

    New cartoon relevant to the case by Mark Fiore, the first half… the other half, I must warn is extremely distressing, the final part of the Joe Horn 911 call ending with his cold blooded casual, “He-ll-o-o… You’re dead” and his two shots and reload for the next murder.

    Fiore’s great punch-line:

    “These SYG shoot em up friendly laws, let you shoot someone if you kinda reasonably feel you might sort of be in danger…”

    • This reminds me of Michael Moore’s “Guns ‘n America”:

      • Malisha says:

        right.
        THe real story is the European Americans were an exploitive and cowardly bunch and they began to emerge from this and grow up and many did, but then there were those who were real retarded, and they couldn’t grow up and stop being chicken-shit all the time, and even training in a gym 9 hours a week they couldn’t get strong enough to stand on their own two feet, and because they know it and they’re insecure, they have to constantly show that others are inferior to THEM to stoke their failing limp little … self-esteems and every once in a while in order to make themselves feel … not impotent … they have to go kill some unarmed skinny pBa-lack kid.

        Fogen is first and foremost a coward.
        A murderer, a liar and a coward.
        Shellie has exactly the husband she deserves.

    • Rachael says:

      I really liked this gbrbsbblogs!

  53. Malisha says:

    2, 4, 6, 8, D-O-J: INVESTIGATE!

    8, 6, 4, 2: Citizens are watching you!

    • believeinkarma says:

      Joonyah is on Twitter and FOX spewing his garbage still. Now the poor zimmies are afraid. They are getting threats. So what

      Fulton/Martins get threats too. From his racist friends. Don’t know what he is complaining about? Thought the Zimmer family believed in vigilantism. That family had no shame. Hope doj monitors all their online activity and who are their supporters

      • racerrodig says:

        They talk about threats and once again forget about coveing the lies. 1st off, nobody knows his e-mail address and where he’s staying and nobody knows his cell number.

        And needless to say, they’ll never, and I mean NEVER, pull out a package of proof…….God forbid they actually prove a damn thing.

        • Jun says:

          I think he’s retarded

          if he was truly in danger, he would not media whore so much, where everyone can publicly see all his movements

          they would also drop their NBC lawsuit because anyone can easily find out where they are staying and when they will be in court

      • Jr is feeling the coldness of inattention to his family and, like a slug, refuses to go back to his hole in the ground.

      • Jun says:

        I honestly believe there are people who do want to off the Fogen KKKlan plus Taffe and Osterman however, I do not believe they have proof to back up their assertions

        and in all honesty, even if they found there were threats, I believe the cops will just say

        “why dont you stand your ground, tough guy?”

        The cops do not care enough or have the resources to personally protect Fogen 24 7 so they are shit out of luck

        They should just keep their begging site going and his gang members can keep supporting him

        and since it’s Florida, who is to say if someone offs them, that it’s not self defense?

        Florida has let people go for shooting people in the street for simply claiming “I was afraid the person I shot, was about to pull a gun, so I shot them” and they walked away scott free (Look up Tony Hayward)

        If Fogen stalks you, and confronts you, he will be armed, therefore a reasonable threat, and anyone can shoot the guy in self defense (not that I agree with the laws there but that is the law there)

        With such a lax attitude for shooting people in Florida, the gunshine state, I doubt Florida cares enough to protect him

        The US government has 300 million or so people to watch over

        There’s mass shootings daily in the US, terrorist attacks, hate groups, gangs, rapes, assaults… they do not have the man power to personally protect Fogen nor the resources, considering they still owe China trillions of dollars

        People in the US will not move a muscle until they are paid, so Fogen’s only recourse is to keep his beg fund and pay security guards because no one will risk getting shot for free

        And even then, there’s no 100% guarantee it will prevent attack with security available because even mob bosses have been offed and their cars get strapped with bombs

        It also does not help that Fogen is racist against Mexicans and is a self hating Latino

      • longtimegeek says:

        GZ’s family went into hiding. Even Casey Anthony’s family didn’t go into hiding, and Casey Anthony didn’t have any fans.

      • Malisha says:

        Oh boo hoo! Maybe Junior better go to Kokopelli’s Gym and learn self-defense! Wus!

  54. Nef05 says:

    Following on L.E.H.’s message of what I’ll call “complicit silence” is an essay making the rounds amongst my FB friends, in my local network. The young woman who wrote this, is writing in her own authentic voice, so if you have a problem with some adult language or a few strategically placed “f” bombs, you may want to bypass.

    But, if not, I highly recommend it. We come from the same state, yet we are polar opposites. I, middle aged, black from the largest city. She, young, white and from a small town. Still, I find her perspective powerful, emotionally naked, and her introspection riveting.

    In college, I read the books and went to the presentations. I volunteered. I asked questions and listened thoughtfully to the answers. I was earnest. I wanted to know better, to do better, to be better, to apologize for where I’m from. And then I graduated, and did many things, and a few years later, one of these things was move to Chicago, start volunteering at this writing workshop, and ride my bike there, where one night, I happened to find myself next to a man who said to me, “[B]ecause there aren’t a bunch of black boys here, I don’t have to worry about my bike getting stolen.” And I opened my mouth and nothing came out.

    This is it. This is it. This, right here, is how black boys die.

    http://inmyspiralringnotebook.blogspot.com/2013/07/white-people.html

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Powerful blog.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      thank you, for turning me on to some powerful words. i like.

      • Nef05 says:

        You’re very welcome Faux. What I also find fascinating is that my FB friends, who are by and large middle aged professional black people, are sending this to their college aged kids as an example of both the goodhearted intentions of some and also of the general type of introspection they should do themselves in their interactions with others. I’m really loving this dialogue that’s happening all over not only between races, but also between generations; and the fact that much of it is very positive. It’s not just all about “be sure you’re not wearing a hoodie at night and don’t mouth off to anyone”.

    • Nef05 says:

      Yes, it is chilling, and I certainly agree with the guy’s opinion, but I’m not sure where he is getting the whole paper bag thing from. Trayvon wasn’t given a paper bag. There was no paper bag recovered at the scene and there certainly wasn’t a paper bag, in his left hand, with his DNA on it. His whole commentary is based on a piece of evidence that doesn’t exist.

      • concernedczen says:

        I think he is talking about the skittles

        • gblock says:

          I thought that the skittles were in his hoodie pocket. He had carried his drink in a plastic bag, and in fact, the bag that it was apparently put in at the 7-11 was found at the crime scene, although the drink was found in his hoodie pocket, making you wonder who put it there.

          • roderick2012 says:

            gblock: making you wonder who put it there.

            Trayvon was holding the 7-11 bag when he was gunned down.
            George took the can of drink out of the 7-11 bag and Skittles and placed it into Trayvon’s hoodie pockets.

            If Trayvon had planned to ambush George at the T then he would have placed the soda and bag of Skittles in his hoodie pockets then abandoned the 7-11 bag, but that didn’t happen.
            The other option was to hold the bag in one had while assaulting George. That would be stupid. Why would someone attempting to ambush another person handicap himself to being able to fight with only one hand by hanging onto a plastic bag?

            I believe that George slipped the can of drink and bag of Skittles into Trayvon’s hoodie pockets before the police arrived because he wanted to claim that Trayvon hit him in the head with the can of soda, but that doesn’t make sense because given the short amount of time George stated that the assault took there was no time for Trayvon to have hit him, smothered him, slammed his head onto the concrete then punched him multiple times then hit him in the head with a can of soda.

            Besides why would Trayvon retrieve the can of soda AFTER he hit George and as I stated before there was no time for Trayvon to have picked it up off the ground and placed it into his hoodie pocket.

            Other than none of George’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands, the location of the 7-11 bag proves to me more than anything that Trayvon didn’t hit George at all.

          • aussie says:

            I always considered it a strong possibility that when GZ made a grab for Trayvon, as he was saying “get off” he swung the bag with the soda at him. The bag broke (??? evidence dump doesn’t say) or the soda fell out. YES I’d agree GZ placed it in the pocket afterwards. I can’t recall if it was checked for prints or not.

            The skittles were in the pocket all along, you can see him put it there at the 7-11 while asking for a bag for the drink. Makes sense; don’t want the drink melting onto the skittles.

            The “paper bag” story was written by someone who believes Trayvon to be innocent without having ever looked at ANY of the physical evidence. The photo is not how he fell, anyway. It is AFTER the EMTs finished trying to resuscitate him. What looks like a possible bag of some sort is a latex glove, or the bag Jon W13 brought to help in the CPR.

            Fair’s fair though, the majority believing GZ to be innocent never looked at the evidence either. Which further proves it’s a matter of belief, not of facts. In the most scientifically-based technologically advanced country in the world. I do wonder who DOES the science. Green card workers from India, I suppose.

    • Rachael says:

      Thank you. I put it on my Facebook.

    • [trigger warning of Trayvon’s body]

  55. Malisha says:

    Actually now that I think about what happened in the Fogen case, it’s clear that: (a) anybody can get away with killing Fogen because they are SURE to be scared to death of HIM; and (b) any prostitute can kill any john in Texas; and (c) lots of murder opportunities are becoming more attractive. If the Fogen case had not already reduced the thing to absurdity (which it had), this Texas case surely does. But with regard to the killing of johns by prostitutes in Texas, it might actually reform their government, because most of their judges, lawmakers and state agency executives would automatically have a much shorter life expectancy. :mrgreen:

    • Mary says:

      except for people like trayvon martin, who exceed the melanin limit for any successful defense under SYG.

    • Jun says:

      Dude their law is so laxes in regards to shootings, I believe you are correct

      I stated this earlier

      Hypothetically, no matter what the idiotic jury and judge did, and the lax prosecuting, I doubt that people are not afraid of Fogen

      Fogen is always armed and he chased down and stalked an unarmed kid who apparently had a sidewalk as a weapon (but if you do the figures, Fogen also was armed with a sidewalk and a gun)

      Anyways, anyone would shoot Fogen in self defense because he could easily reach for his gun and shoot anyone, so anyone has the right under Florida law to defend themselves against Fogen and Fogen would reach for his gun and kill you with no remorse, so you would have to shoot in self defense

      The prosecutors could not do much because, Fogen was armed and stalking someone

      It’s already public knowledge Fogen’s history, and since a defendant can use a person’s history against them and open the door, Fogen would look like the violent jerk off he is

      All the people defending Fogen from before will now start attacking Fogen for being hispanic and say he’s a gang banger, etc and funding the shooter of Fogen and claim it’s a malicious prosecution of the shooter of Fogen

      Omara would probably take the case for the shooter of Fogen and bring his photoshopped pictures of injuries and claim Fogen was armed with the sidewalk and a gun LMAO

      Anyone prosecuting for Fogen would have a weak case to be honest

      That’s how it works in a state where the shooter is the victim and the shot person is the bad guy LOL

      Come to think of it, Serial killers living in Florida, would have a self defense claim against all his victims, as long as a gun is used

      Also a perfect place for a hitman is Florida as there would not even be a need to dispose of the body and hide it as the hitman could just say, I though he was pulling a gun

  56. Rachael says:

    But this will make you feel a little better:

    • racerrodig says:

      Talk about your “one off, custom made” instruments. And I think I’m clever with amp and guitar mods I do…….these guys blow that away !!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Unbelievable abuse of SYG law. I boycott Texas too.

    • Malisha says:

      Well now every “escort” is entitled to kill her john after they HAVE had sex because she can point out that the contract called for him to pay for 10 minutes (at the rate of $100 or whatever) but he went 20 so he stole the last ten minutes of the services. Retrieving stolen property at night. Should thin down the population quite a bit if you ask me.

    • racerrodig says:

      Imagine some clown killing an escort because even though she had sex with him, he didn’t consider it great sex as her ad states…..It’s coming (pardon the pun) because that’s where this country is heading…….right down the gutter.

      Disgusting…….it sure looks like guns nuts have all the rights now.

    • Under this ruling, even Shellie Z is not safe.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Of course it’s Unconstitutional for the gov’t of Texas to authorize citizens to impost the death penalty for minor crimes. Congress is asleep at the wheel! As usual!!!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      oh yeah, the husband and i were discussing that yesterday. positively sick.

  57. dianetrotter says:

    I think we all questioned all of these things on this list. How does one convey that to the media and keep the narrative front and center?

    • I’m not sure you’re aware, but there is a dark side to mainstream media (MSM) in that they are owned by two or three agenda-driven corporations. Given that, I think we’d do better and have a greater impact by getting this info out to our own communities via blogs, forums, newsletters and such.

  58. sadlyyes says:

    okay gonna go watch an old movie…and contemplate my navel…bbl

    • racerrodig says:

      I contemplate the fuzzies in my socks at times like this. It’s better than thinking about what Fogen’s next stunt will be.

      He’s now been empowered and he’ll be looking for a fight.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        His daddy wants him to hide for a real long time. Maybe we’ll get lucky and he’ll stay hidden the rest of his life.

        • crazy1946 says:

          His daddy want him to go back to “not” being part of the family like it was before he became a child murderer! That will only last until the next time they need to bail out their baby boy from his next scrape with the law! Too bad they never let him grow up, if they had Trayvon would probably still be alive! Of course the old saying that “hind sight has 20/20 vision” applies…..

  59. ay2z says:

    Sorry if this has been posted already as it was published yesterday.

    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/07/18/watch-al-sharpton-interviews-trayvon-martins-parents/

  60. ay2z says:

    Thanks L.E.H. Thought provoking as to why the choices were never questioned in a way that might make a difference. Was media afraid of the NBC problem visited on them if they present something that the fogen might be offended by and turn to his own use?

    The psychopath characteristics might make some back off, bow to him.

  61. Girlp says:

    Leroy you spoke the truth we allowed O’Mara to demonize this child through the media without confronting them with fact…we should never let that happen again.

    • sadlyyes says:

      omom,is just a lawyer,who empowered him to have the platform to spew this crap? The loss of the FAIRNESS doctrine….we must demand equal time or boycott those stations that refuse to let us speak

    • Malisha says:

      Ordinarily a sheriff’s department has a “victims’ advocate.” That person’s job was to protect Trayvon Martin’s reputation and rights. Because the SPD was on the murderer’s side, however, NONE of the law enforcement people did their jobs. They were all bowing down and kissing the perp’s ass. THEY are the people who need to be investigated and then punished by DOJ.

      2 4 6 8 DOJ INVESTIGATE!

      8 6 4 2 citizens are watching you!

      • LiveByTheGulf says:

        Great cheerleading yell.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I bet they only have victim’s advocates for lighter colored folk.

        • bettykath says:

          Serino said that they referred Tracy to a victim’s advocate or put an advocate in touch with him I don’t remember exactly what he said but Tracy and victim’s advocate were to get together. iirc, it was right after Tracy heard the 911 call.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I was being overly cynical – you’re right, Bettykath, I do remember that now that you mention it.

          • Malisha says:

            Two Sides, you weren’t being overly cynical. What I meant was the victims’ advocate should have represented Trayvon’s interests and countermanded the crap West and O’Mara were putting out in the press. That person’s name should be well known to us because we should have been hearing from that person every time the Meme Team did one of their “thug runs.” That person’s name should be as well known as O’Mara’s. “Victim’s advocate says Trayvon Not a Thug” should have been a headline.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Yes, Malisha – I know what you meant and agree with what you meant and should have said it that way. Sometimes I get so discouraged by this stuff that I flip off with something weird.

    • racerrodig says:

      Tell us how you would have stopped him. Not some dream, how would you or any of us legally stop him. The Judges allowed that. Do you think writing a letter to the Judge gets a gag order?? That won’t happen. I saw this 1st hand and the one who sent a letter to a judge who saw an illegal act by the judge and one of the lawyers was threatened in vague terms by the judge,

      The laws need to be changed. In this case Lester should have issued a gag order and Nelson upheld it.

      As much respect as I have for everyone here, Leroy just hoodwinked everyone with the same thing he’s saying “They” did.

      A sleeze bag like The Moron Man is going to push the limits because some higher power is pulling the strings and paying him.

      My wife & I have a lawsuit against a co. called Ocwen. They have a whole building full of lawyers in, imagine this, FL, the scam capitol of the US. I have been researching mortgage and lending fraud since 2008 and in the 1st go round we had with them, we found out how unethical and criminal they’ll stoop in their greed. They fabricate evidence in wholesale fashion and we hired a handwriting expert and proved 80 forged signatures. In fact, he is friends of Tom Owen and I was familiar with Owen through him.

      Ocwen is so fucked up, that the left hand does not even know there is a right hand, let alone know what it’s doing. When we sued them (again) last year, their response is taken verbatim from other suits against them !! They just send the lawyers in our case shit their corporate lawyers used in other cases.

      They try to use the line they are not a debt collector trying to use an improper interpretation of lending laws.

      When you compare things side by side that’s what went on here. I can mess with someones mind like you would not believe in person because I have the ability to see many moves ahead of most people. For that same reason I am a very hard sell when it comes down to bullshit…..that is, I can smell it a mile away.

      When someone posts Fogen was a good manipulator, and con man and could talk his way out of anything I say, really……that’s because they are weak willed. He never fooled me, nor did his Papi nor his brother, Taaffe, Oliver nor Osterman.

      “…we should never let that happen again.”

      So tell me how do we get into court and stop the lies ?? Tell me and I guarantee I’ll try it.

      • Well this wasn’t about you, this was about the very people who had the power to express the truth through media outlets. This is about how CNN did their best to make it plausible that Trayvon was on top by creating an unchallenged example of how it could be done and then getting an alleged expert to say that is the only way it could be done. Yet not being called racist for doing so.

        This type of dialog created the narrative that allowed the prosecution to go to court and attempt to get a conviction without acknowledging a racial bias. This right here is the perfect example of racism. Not what George Zimmerman did, but the lies he tells and the obvious clashes with the truth they try to excuse as an improbable occurrence after an improbable occurrence.

        The automatic loss we take when we argue that Trayvon had a right to defend himself totally allows GZ to say he was punched first. But we already know there were no GZ blood on his left hand, no GZ blood on his right hand, no GZ blood in his fingernails, no GZ blood on his left cuff, no GZ blood on his right cuff and yet he was slamming GZ’s bloody nosed head in the ground for 40 seconds, covering his mouth and fighting for a gun without any sign of blood evidence that this occurred. To top it off we know he was begging for his life as loud as he could. This is not someone who is aggressively defending himself. Don’t ever argue TM had the right to defend himself, it puts GZbotz right where they want to be when they say GZ thought he was going to die!

        But if you read what I wrote, I said not us specifically. These failures allowed GZ to prosecuted while restricting the truth and all the racially sensitive evidence to prevent the truth from seeping into the jury. The jury should’ve heard all 46 calls and when they occurred before, during and after the robberies.

        Whatever happened to GZ’s emails and text messages. If there is evidence of racial bias in them or they’re too inflammatory, then that’s evidence. They’re supposed to be in showing how he felt to the point where the jury is so saturated with his bias that they have no choice but to recognize the truth.

        • I’m tired, sorry for the rambling, I gotta go to bed.

        • bettykath says:

          I don’t understand the unfairness of fogen’s texts, etc being sealed but Trayvon’s blasted all over the internet and tv. The state should have demand that they be sealed and not added to a motion or otherwise released.

          • ladystclaire says:

            This is what I don’t understand, why was Trayvon’s phone torn apart, and Fogen’s shit was sealed. why would the state agree with that in the first place? more evidence that they never intended to to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. what was in those correspondence that the prosecutors would agree that it should be sealed?

            IMO, Angela Corey is a real honest to goodness hypocrite and, a fake.

        • racerrodig says:

          I never said it was about me…..where did I say that ?? I cited a parallel, that’s all. You repeatedly state “we” let “them” tell us …

          They told “us” whatever they wanted to and they cannot be stopped. Most of “us” said bullshit…..that’s why we’re here.

          I believe they bullshitted you right into something similar to what they did.

          In fact……I’ll go on and say…………

          Thank you Professor for this safe landing zone where you provided us with the opportunity to discuss this and you have educated us in the law. Most of us know the difference between right and wrong, save for an occasional wandering troll, and have shared experiences in life as samples to use.

          Thank you to all of the regulars here for doing likewise. LLMPapa (where are you ?) the enormous work you put into those videos, Lonnie for all the investigative work and timeline, Xena…….everything, need I say more ? cielo62 for keeping us grounded and some well timed comedy, Crane-Station, likewise for sharing your history, Malisha, two sides, ladystclaire, fauxmccoy, one of the best from here and other sites…..all of you.

          For the record, most of us never bought Fogens story so I do not see how it can be said “we” believed or it was …….

          They are allowed to say anything they want. As much as they lie, WE have no say in the matter. I could nave gone to the SPD and said I was a witness to the shooting and since I have friends that live near there and houses are for sale there I could have said I was visiting……

          The bottom line is that many cases are not about fact, but about what you can get someone to believe or what you can prove.

          You also have to remember that evil people are bent on inflicting their will on you……I get that all the time.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        @racerrodig, Interesting……..I worked for Ocwen, as a debt collector, and except the recptionist, every employee was a debt collector.

        • racerrodig says:

          Ocwen is the mafia of mortgage companies. They claim, when they are sued, that they are, by legal definition according to the FDCPA, NOT a debt collector. Every communication from them says “This communication is from a debt collector and any information………”

          What they do is unconscionable as far as illegal late fee’s and such. In our case they split a payment and illegally applied part as principal reduction and the suspended the balance, effectively making a payment disappear. Then they start with late fees. They played that with us starting in March 2007 when we were actually 8 weeks ahead.

          Then they filed a foreclosure in 2008 while we were current and in a Modification negotiation……..patently illegal.

          After 3 years of litigation during which they destroyed our credit intentionally (to prevent you from a re – fi elsewwhere) we had another modification that they breeched 6 weeks before it went into effect. I made the Jan. payment in mid November and Ocwen suspended it. It was sent USPS Certified Mail and then they applied the second (Feb) payment as Jan and so on. By May we “owed” over 7K in late fees, despite having made payments early & in full. In March, they posted a new foreclosure on our credit scores so assure total destruction of our credit as the Judge told them previously that we were going to re – fi as soon as they sent the court ordered letters to all 3 credit reporting agencies that we had never missed a payment and to restore our scores to a date in 2006.

          Not only did they fail to do that, they posted every payment lateand a new foreclosre. They do this to millions of people. They are currently being sued by 11.7 % of their customers, which is an astounding number.

          We sued them again last Mayand they started the legal games that our lawyer stopped from getting out of hand and now they ignore everything he sends them.

          I’ll quit on that now but we’re taking them to task. They forged 80 signatures of ours in the 1st go round and effectively caused the mortgage to disappear into cyber space since they now have no wet ink original and what they claim is the “Note” is clearly a fake……ya know, being a photo copy and all.

          The Note is a story all by itself.

          • Soulcatcher says:

            It was only the last couple of days that I worked for the co that they began collecting on home loans. I have read that they were being sued by quite a few homeowners, which doesn’t surprise me at all.

    • Rachael says:

      very true.

    • Malisha says:

      We didn’t. I protest. I took one little piece of the lie, the “RTL was a dangerous neighborhood” meme and I attacked it. I FOIA’d the information from SPD. It took a month, $120, and about two dozen phone calls, e-mails, follow-ups, and they sent it out. It proved the whole “danger danger” thing was false and RTL was a LOW CRIME NEIGHBORHOOd until Fogen committed murder there. I called Miami Herald, I called Frances Robes, Professor helped me, I sent this information all over the place, I called all the papers that had repeated the false information, I asked for retraction, everybody ignored me, Frances Robles wrote back to me twice and then pretended that she was going to another paper so good-bye no story. No correction; no retraction; no attention. I tried to sell the story to journalists elsewhere so they would break the story that the whole media portrayal of the case had started off wrong; I found one journalist who pretended to be starting on the story but didn’t. I even went to journalists with Al Jazeera and NOBODY PICKED UP THE STORY. I called DOJ and told them that the entire thing was a fraud from the beginning and I got a call back after my first three calls. I spoke with a woman named Angela Washington who sounded so disinterested she could have been polishing her nails as we spoke. I said the SPD had put out false information on March 15, 2013. She said if you have any information you can send it in. I said what is the status of your investigation; she said “we have put out a public statement; you can read it. I sent them the report SPD had made to Miami Herald and pointed out that it was false. I heard NOTHING back.

      If I had the money and time to do this with every tiny bleep of information from the case, maybe I would have. BUt of course, I imagined that BDLR was gathering the information and would nail it. That was a fraud. Information is POWER. Those who already have the power decide what information they will use, what information they will flush down the big powertoilet.

      It looks to me like the information I sent to BDLR’s office was ignored (“homie” was a “tell”).

      Information I gave DOJ was probably ignored.

      We are not to blame for the big lie. We are only to blame if we believe the big lie.

      • LiveByTheGulf says:

        Thank you for your efforts. Wonder if Al Sharpton would have listened to you and acted. I was surprised that no one called Rachel for awhile. Seemed that people around here didn’t take that much interest in the case until the case when to trial.

        Looks like when anyone claims SYG, the police give a pass because of the SYG law. SYG is the law.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Hopefully if there are enough people like you around the country observing and documenting and remaining outspoken, a difference can be made. It’s probably like bailing out a sinking ship with a teaspoon, but enough people with teaspoons . . .

  62. crazy1946 says:

    As I sit here reflecting on all the things that took place during this trial and before, it occurred that there was one thing that had never been suggested that probably should have been mentioned. The settling of the legal action brought by Trayvon’s parents against the HOA. Some had suggested they did this to avoid the possibility of going to court and losing. Was it that or was it to prevent people being called to the stand and having to testify before a court of law. What would have been revealed and who would have been in deep trouble had the truth come out? Just one more question that will probably never be answered….

    • Malisha says:

      I agree with you. They settled because settlements like that have confidentiality clauses. They settled because the guy in charge of security cameras was a buddy of Fogen’s and had them turned off that night. They settled because there was NOT a rash of crime in the neighborhood and they knew that; it was a low-crime neighborhood but they went along with the false narrative; they settled because HOA put Black residents into a defensive position by making Fogen the Lord and Master of the Plantation called Retreat at Twin Lakes.

      • Mary says:

        the hoa at the ratl had rec’d countless complaints a bout zimmerman patrolling the neighborhood armed. they had held a meeting about just one week before trayvon was shot.

        further, the ratl hoa had failed to complete the entire neighborhood watch certification.

        big time liability for the hoa.

        imo, shelley z is involved here. remember when in the police video of z explaining his movements, how z started to say his wife called him … then he bit his tongue and changed the course of conversation?

        imo, shelly was in on zimmerman’s cop wannabe fantasies: she played the role of watchman and dispatch.

        • lurker says:

          The president of the HOA testifed. He said that in his opinion the NW was not needed. He also testified that gz never followed up with volunteers who signed up to be block captains. Essentially gz alone was the blockwatch.His actions are hardly cconsistent with somene serious about organising a NW to prevent crime.

          • Mary says:

            i didn’t know that about not following up. man oh man, the next time something like this happens, i’m goin g to immediately start a word.doc timeline, with all the cites and sources, so i can keep it organised. i’m going to do a newswatch on google, and keep all the videos and audios in one place, because there was so much that i didn’t catch or forgot.

          • longtimegeek says:

            GZ doesn’t seem to be good at anything he does. Yet, his fans are proud of him. What else could it be, but racism? He isn’t even white, meaning his fans aren’t really like him and probably don’t really identify with his hispanic upbringing. It’s all about TM being black.

          • ladystclaire says:

            @longtimegeek, I agree with you that, Fogen isn’t white. I have two bi-racial and, the one drop of AA blood deems them to be AA. so why and how is it different for certain other people? I’m not complaining mind you, I’m just confused about how this guy who is brown complected like my two grandsons yet, he is considered white.

            I wouldn’t take anything for my grandsons, they are the flesh of my flesh and the blood of my blood. on the other hand, this joker is living the life of white privilege everyday of his life. I guess now his parents don’t have to live on the run anymore. this is such a bitter pill to swallow and, what makes it so difficult to go down is, the state was in on this cover up and, it was very obvious from the start. to these people, Trayvon’s short life meant nothing. so so sad.

          • longtimegeek says:

            ladystclaire – That part of the case always confused me. Early in the case, I could have sworn that GZ identified as hispanic and not white. But, the hispanic community distanced itself from him, and a large portion of the white community embraced him. Later, we hear that his great grandfather is black. GZ never embraced that part of him. (I could see him trying to shoot that part of him out of him if he could. Cringe.)

          • aussie says:

            Longtimegeek,. he always put “white” on all his documents. Whatever anyone says, he IS white.

            Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicitiy. Actually it covers over a dozen different nationalities.

            A person of mixed blood can and will usually put whichever one he identifies as, which would be the one he was brought up as. Having a black great grandfather (supposedly) when all the other great grandparents were white, he’d have been brought up in a third-generation white culture. If it was one where black ancestry was something to be ashamed of, they’d not have mentioned granddad’s colour much. The rest of the mix would be local native tribal and Spanish invader, going back far enough.

            Anyway he always said white. The Hispanic started being bandied about when white whites objected to being “blamed” for the killing. The Hispanic community rejected him as he’d never been a part of it, and understandably didn’t want him joining just to seek shelter from a murder charge…. not the best credentials to try joining any club with.

            The black ancestor was then found/produced to prove he could not have been racist because of this 1/16th black blood. It makes it a NOT white-on-lack killing, so whites can relax.

            Something like this happens in Australia, too. If a migrant does well, becomes a great sportsman or invents something or runs a great company or wins a Nobel Prize, he’s “Australian”. If he’s found running a militia training camp or kidnaps someone, he’s a “(insert country of origin )-born ” even if he’s been here and a citizen for 40 years. It’s a way for the other people to distance themselves from someone they’re ashamed of. Youth gangs, too, are always described as Vietnamese gangs, Middle Eastern gangs etc though the members are all citizens, most born here, and all include other nationalities including 10th generation “real Aussie”.

          • longtimegeek says:

            aussie – Yes, I’m aware of the technicalities. But, in practice, I’ve had similar experiences to ladystclaire. People with a drop of black blood are considered black. People who look hispanic are considered hispanic. In my experience, the U. S. is still a white dominated society in which the pure white community doesn’t view anyone who looks black, hispanic, asian, middle eastern, etc. as one of them.

  63. Leroy Eugene Hudson, thank you for speaking out on this business of mainstream media telling us where to get off and where to go and how to think, constantly.

    There have been times during this trial where I wondered if we were reading about the same case, they had things so wildly different.

    Makes you wonder. Whenever one has the real inside witnessed truth about any given story, the news always has stuff wrong. Crazy.

    And another thing. Where do folks get the ‘librul media’ idea from? I only want somebody somewhere to put a cursor over the mainstream FOX and highlight all of the pro-Trayvon Martin sentences because there aren’t any. What sentences have I missed?

    Very well written and well said, thank you.

    • sadlyyes says:

      we are being mind fkked in this country,there is a documentary on the BBC…How Television Ruins Your LIfe

      i will go find it and post it

    • gblock says:

      “There have been times during this trial where I wondered if we were reading about the same case, they had things so wildly different. ”

      Me too! Many days, it seemed as though either they or I was watching a trial in some alternate universe. Part of it was their “sound bit reporting”. They would talk about one or two things and everything else seemed to fly under their radar.

  64. sadlyyes says:

    and by the way,when i was young,younger than even Tray,WE PROTESTED the Vietnam War,It will be hard,but the YOUNG people must pick up the fight for themselves.It is that important.In France when they wanted to raise tuitions millions of YOUNG were in the streets,to turn the tide…..The young are our future!

    • That makes two of us. When Bobby was shot, we talked about it on the playgrounds. We were aware of political events and issues. We endlessly nonstop discussed the senselessness of the Vietnam war, as young children.

      I have seen aging Vietnam disabled veterans today living in the streets. It is beyond shameful how we do people, in other countries and in our own country.

      Apathy will kill this country quicker than anything.

      • sadlyyes says:

        we have been shocked into submission imo,what i fail to understand,and ask it over,and over
        when will these captains of INDUSTRY ,masters of the universe have ENOUGH!when will they LOOSEN their grip on us?
        Who will be our REAL leader to HOPE and CHANGE?

        • For one thing we got rid of TV several years ago. There are now five or six people in my family who don’t watch TV.

          When I search for Live Stream, that’s why.

          We need to bring back some critical thinking, some independent thinking, IMO.

        • For one thing we got rid of TV several years ago. There are now five or six people in my family who don’t watch TV.

          When I search for Live Stream, that’s why.

          We need to bring back some critical thinking, some independent thinking, IMO.

      • racerrodig says:

        Exactly. When MLK & RFK were murdered I was in 8th grade. The 1st band I was in almost every song we did was a protest song. “Ohio” “Fortunate Son” and of course “Southern Man” were some of the big songs we did.

        When the big financial institutions are taken to task and beaten in the courts, thinks will finally begin to change.

        • Ohio is one of my favorites. I was fortunate in college to study the Kent State events under Dr. Gregory Payne, then a professor at Occidental, who is now at Emerson College in Boston I see. However, I recall when it happened as well. As kids, we were really aware, active, discussing things. I fear apathy. I really do. Call me old fashioned…

          http://www.gregorypayne.net/

          Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young “Ohio” (Kent State shootings 1970- written by Neil Young):

          Where did we all lose our way, racer?

          • racerrodig says:

            I’m not sure that we lost our way. Look at what we believe in and stand up for. Look at what we see as wrong. Look at how we feel about the known injustices.

            It’s the Fogens who are lost and the Moron O’ Mara’s who enable them by hiding behind that “your rights are the only one’s that count” mantra.

            The terrible agenda of Fogen is typical anymore when 40 years ago he would, in all likelihood have been never been able to pull this off. Criminals Rights…..I have had a problem with those going way back.

          • At one point, did O’Mara blame the media for his client’s eating disorder?

            My satirical dark side wants to hire, like 500 people to simply walk around his neighborhood talking on the phone every time it rains, plus call 911 on him for no reason:

            “There’s a man. He looks like a thugboat. And it’s raining…and he is about to check his mail. He looks real suspicious…”

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          • Such a powerful message and they are so lovely with it, thank you so much.

            I like the refrain:

            “Last night I had the strangest dream I’d ever had before.
            I dreamed the world had all agreed to put an end to war.”

      • ladystclaire says:

        Thank you Crane Station, I rest my case and I will always say, that this is “NOT” the best country in the world. especially when ‘/someone outright murdered a child and, he had lots of support in getting away with his crime. he even had the prosecutors in his back pocket. it was evident from the way BDLR would question the so called witnesses as well as how both the and JN allowed the grilling of Rachel Jentel.

        There were so many things that the state didn’t do that should have been done! the ONLY reason he was arrested and, stood trial was because of the public out cry. it’s really a sad state of affairs, to know this child is gone and, the one responsible is walking around free as a bird. NO, IMO this is not the greatest country in the world and, it’s far from it.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Did you not get the memo? We Vietnam Vet’s are disposable and neither wanted or needed in this country! We were told that when we came home and continue to be treated that way! Compare the way the younger vet’s are/have been treated to how we were and still are treated. Beyond that, I will not comment any more on this subject……

        • It is so sad, and so shameful. And the effects of that war, oh my God. Many/most are unable to speak on it, today even, so I understand.

        • Brother Vet… most of my peers that were in the Nam are dead due to a non-supportive VA system. It has gotten much better from which it was. Too late for the majority of the lost Vietnam vet. Brother (Doc) Armstrong, 159th Dust-Off 69-70 Maintain and Thanks for being there.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      A lot of youth are getting involved and they really, really need to join forces with all ages to turn many things around, not only in the US but around the globe. It will be impossible for any one group or generation to do much because we’re up against a behemoth of ignorance and big money.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I marched against the Vietnam war when I was 17. Never too young to become an activist!

      • Malisha says:

        I have a friend who served in Vietnam and was honorably discharged. When he got home he attended a demonstration against the war and spoke. Immediately he was arrested and charged with TREASON and he was convicted and fainted in the courtroom. He was sentenced to 20 years and after 6 months at Leavenworth, somebody contacted a senator who went to bat for him and got him a pardon. But what he went through was not for actions against the government; it was for saying that he was THERE and he served in combat and still he opposed the war. How could the country have been WORSE to him?

        Oh yeah. It could have allowed somebody to gun him down in the street and go free.

  65. sadlyyes says:

    The head of these MULTIMEDIA empires are as wealthy and powerful as old Ruppert MurCROCK himself.They are Kings and Queens,as in old Europe,we are the peasants,so to say WE let this happen is far from correct…as in 1984….THEY will give you the facts,and THOSE WHO CONTROL THE PRESENT,control the past….break up the media,break up the big banks,that are in bed with them,then and only then will the next generation get a fair shake….imo

    • believeinkarma says:

      Fox is continuing to spread lies about Trayvon. They are saying Trayvon had 4 minutes to get home. So did fogen. We know what Trayvon was doing, talking to Rachael. Where was fogen? He was the adult & should have gone to his truck.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Yes, but they leave out that the 4 minutes could have been when Trayvon was standing under the shelter at the mailboxes. Fogen had 4 minutes to stay in his truck and wait for the police to get there too. In the first place, he called a NEN, whenever someone calls that NEN the police department does not make it a priority and he knew that would give him time to do his dirt.

  66. Ditto what Rachael said. Surreal that he did not get tested for drugs and alcohol in the wake of a homicide. Never seen anything like it in my life. Damn right he was dirty. If he was clean, he would have demanded at least a urine if not both a blood and urine tox screen on the spot, preferably sent to a couple of different labs for verification. Just like, if the nose was really broken he would have followed up with the ENT referral and the radiology.

    That didn’t happen.

    • Mary says:

      and the fact that he took classes in criminal and self-defense law explains it all, imo.

      • He knew what he was doing, but also he had enablers. He is the only person I have ever heard of in a situation like that, who was simply not required to submit a tox screen.

      • racerrodig says:

        For all we know, this may have been his sick version of a class project. He may have said to himself “I’m going to show them how to get away with it…..I’m smarter than all of them”

    • Soulcatcher says:

      Like I said before, fogen owned an insurance co, and knows darn well the first thing you do in a situation like this is to go to the hospital weather you believe your injuries are serious or not. The reason he didn’t is quite clear. He was dirty. I sold insurance, so I know what he advised all his clients to do.

      • I actually would no be surprised if he had alcohol on board that night. That nonemergency 911 call: he had a slur to his speech, plus he didn’t seem to know where he was.

  67. concernedczen says:

    I’m not sure how we’re to blame for this.

    I didn’t do any of those things.

    And I didn’t see anyone here do those things either.

    • racerrodig says:

      Thank you….I never allowed anyone to dissuade me from thoinking he said “…fucking coons…” but “I (we) let them dod what ?? Like I was going to effect any action in that court to change it.

      “We let them tell us that 30yr audio experts are hacks because they say it was NOT GZ. They acknowledge they don’t have a big enough sample to say it’s TM but they know it’s not GZ.”

      They’re going to say what they want…..just like I can do. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY got me to believe for a second Fogen was the one screaming…..again, could I go into that court and do anything ???

      Come on now.

      • Mojo says:

        I don’t know how they ever got that changed and “convinced” others is was punks. I’ve heard that utterance now countless times. He said coons. The word started with a hard K sound, had a long U sound, and had no hard K sound at the end.

  68. Two sides to a story says:

    *APPLAUSE*

  69. commenting says:

    When I heard gz’s voice on the NEN call for the first time, I thought he was mentally challenged

    • commenting says:

      But on hearing speak on other ocasions he sounded ok, and he is an articulate person…

      • Girlp says:

        He was probably drunk and drugged that night.

        • Trained Observer says:

          I think he was … the slurring gives it away. That’s why the Seminole cops “forgot” to run tests on their smarmy shooter, even though they ran tests on the unarmed dead kid.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Waaay back after the bail hearings we were calling gz out for his slurred speech on this board and others. Then they released his other NEN and 911 calls and I was totally taken by surprise at the amazing clarity of his speech on his earlier police calls. You cannot judge or appreciate how terribly slurred his speech was that night in February until you listen to his other calls.

            I assure you the difference is nothing short of fantastic! Maybe LLMPapa or someone can put those two voices side by side or back to back in a video, so that everyone can hear the amazing difference.

    • Beverly says:

      I still think he is….learning disabled, don’t know the diagnosis, of course.

  70. commenting says:

    Nobody let them do anything, so what was the public supposed to do? They protested didn’t they…what else can you do??

  71. It’s my belief that Martin will get Justice,I never doubted I never will,
    Martin will get Justice and then some more!

    The rat’s one victory will be short live,two strike he is out!

    • commenting says:

      Sometimes evil prevail……….

    • Trained Observer says:

      Am hopeful you are correct, Joseph. I’m confident Fogen now feels emboldened to continue on his merry way. It won’t take him long to buy another gun “for protection” but the next time he pulls it, there may be a faster trigger-finger out there.

      Rather than to be cut down too soon, I ,personally, want him to live a long miserable life, ideally in a cell somewhere.

  72. commenting says:

    I don’t understand y someone would believe a 17 year old would try to kill someone after someone /John Goode yelled he was calling the cops……and smother him…after someone came out and yelled to them?..and tell him to shut the aff up..after John good came out and yell after them, does this make sense?..not even a spyhopath would do that…just because a stranger followed them…then he does not even struggle for the gun but chose to bash the guys head again, a gun that gz said the kid tried to grab

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’m cynical post-trial. Believe are going to believe what they want to believe no matter what the evidence says.

    • Girlp says:

      With police sirens and lights a minute or less away….that’s one reason Zimmerman shot Trayvon, there was anger from Zimmerman but he had his gun out and he knew there was a possibility he would be shot and he was not going to let Trayvon talk….you cannot detain someone that is kidnapping and Zimmerman knew it.

      • deetruth says:

        And no one ever asked George to explain what he meant when he said he was running out of time.

      • pat deadder says:

        Girlp police a minute or less away.Yes fogen shot his witness.The police would have arrived and heard Trayvon screaming.I think fogen got the call from police that he asked for.Call me when you get here and I’ll tell you where I am.I don’t think he answered but he knew they were near,So he panicked.

    • longtimegeek says:

      Also, a 17 year old who ran away. A 17 year old who was in the backyard of many homes at 7 pm with lights on. He suddenly changed his mind and decided to attack a creepy a** cracka (slang for police/security) with his fists and a sidewalk, while his friend was on the phone listening and while neighbors could be looking, yelling and walking out? It’s not believable that TM attacked anyone, let alone a cracka.

      I also want to say that if TM thought GZ was a cracka, why would he attack him? Even if the thought crossed his mind, which I doubt, wouldn’t he think he would be at a disadvantage, because he isn’t a trained fighter? It doesn’t make sense that he would risk starting a fight with anyone, let alone a cracka. He was going home the next day and to college after that. Conversely, if TM thought GZ was a cracka, would he think that GZ was going to kill him in the backyard of many homes at 7 pm with lights on? I still think it’s quite possible that TM didn’t hit GZ, the cracka, at all.

      Aside from none of GZ’s stories being believable, he always wants everything both ways. He had been training for a long time to be a policeman. But, he wants us to believe that when he was at a complete advantage over a 17 year old kid, that he suddenly became too wimpy to keep his advantage in the space of 70 seconds and that his life was even threatened in the space of that 70 seconds. It’s not believable. Regardless of neighbors looking, yelling and walking out that night, nothing was going to stop him from doing what he wanted to do.

  73. sadlyyes says:

    i am sorry ,i dont accept this….All this was going on right before our very eyes…Vast amounts of money Kock Brothers NRA,ALEC,made it impossible to turn the tide…But its not too late now..Let us resolve there will be no more children,or any unarmed person,be treated with so little reverence for life. And let us speak to the utter HYPOCRISY of a nation that values a fetus,but NOT its young people.Causing them outrageous tuition fees,sending too may to foreign wars,that benefit the !%,and remove their souls.

    • aussie says:

      It’s not about the fetus being valued. It’s about controlling poor women’s lives. It won’t affect rich women, they can always get anything, can afford to travel to another country if needs be. Better education and affordable birth control would reduce abortions, but many schools ban sex education.

      College is a con-job, the fees are blackmail, because realistically many only go in hope of getting a job, which they won’t get anyway because there are not enough to go around. College is now required for a lot of jobs people had no trouble doing, and doing well, straight out of school 40 years ago. Just another way of keeping down those too poor to take on the loans.

      The military is full of kids from poor families who join up as it’s the only job available for them, and in hopes of getting an education they can’t afford on their own. The price they pay sometimes is their life — or sanity. In the former case they are called heroes. In the latter case they join all the others with mental problems — a life on the streets, or from that directed into the prison system.

      There are a LOT of lives not treated with reverance, just barely tolerated, allowed to exist as objects for the others to exercise power over. Companies are allowed to pay wages so low, their workers qualify for food stamps — then get hated on by the better off for “sponging off their taxes”.

      The war is against the poor. Minorities are kept poor on purpose: it is easier to identify someone if they look different. The problem spreads a lot further than black/white.

      • Woow! says:

        Private doctors do not report everything. My gyno do more abortions for middle class white women in a month or two than a clinic does in a year. All this does it make it harder for poor women. Women who can afford $500 + will still get abortions. Whose going to tell? Private physicians won’t because that will cost them money.

      • Rachael says:

        excellent aussie

  74. Rachael says:

    “Then we’re supposed to believe that GZ didn’t get a toxicology test because they forgot? If I get hurt at work, they wont forget, if I get caught with drugs they wont forget, If I get in a car accident and someone gets hurt, whether it’s my fault or not, they wont forget. This man shot a child and was in custody for 5hrs and we’re supposed to believe they forgot? They didn’t forget, they covered for him because if he was clean they would’ve tested him and put it all over the news. He was dirty.”

    Isn’t it kind of like police 101 that they would get a toxicology on THE SHOOTER?

    I will NEVER until the day I die understand this. He shoots and kills a kid and they do a tox on the kid and not him? WTF???

    • abbyj1 says:

      X1000, Rachael

    • aussie says:

      “Tox on the kid” is normal. It is a routine part of any autopsy.. Nothing nefarious about it.

      According to Singleton, at the trial, GZ did not seem to be impaired (by drugs or alcohol) so they didn’t do a tox test. Apparently they only do one if the person seems impaired.

      This needs a law change, or procedures change, that they do one ALWAYS. As someone else said on the other thread, they’ll always do one on a driver after an accident, even if he was totally in the right (eg parked when hit)..

      • Rachael says:

        I understand the routine autopsy part – but I do NOT understand how someone can shoot someone where there are no actual eye witnesses, especially after the phone call he made (and I’m NOT talking about how he sounded impaired, even though he did, I mean the following, etc) and not be tested.

        I just thought it was kind of an automatic no-braining police 101 thing.

        But I guess not.

      • deetruth says:

        He sounded “high” on that NEN call, even before I heard his voice in other instances where I could compare.

      • I don’t believe they have the option of passing on a tox, I don’t believe that for one second. They did it on purpose. It was a murder, not possession of marijuana, so err on the side of caution. Give him a toxicology test so there will be no question. I honestly believe that was an attempt by Singleton to blow smoke up our butt.

        • pat deadder says:

          Maybe there was a toxology test and it was not revealed.Why wasn’t his car impounded.My God my Grandson could do a better investigation.I don’t think Singleton and Serino ever believed fogen but something came from the top for them to stfu or worse.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Just par for the course, they use “forget” when they mean “fixed”.

    • longtimegeek says:

      Didn’t the police perform a criminal background check on TM and not GZ, the killer with a gun? They didn’t even know who TM was until his father identified him the next day.

      • Malisha says:

        Serino told Tracy Martin the next day that Fogen was “squeaky clean.”

        Assault on a law enforcement officer by white = squeaky clean

        Walking home with candy and a soft drink by Black = thug

      • aussie says:

        This case is bad enough without getting extra emotional by using the wrong words. Let’s keep it neutral and factual.

        They put Trayvon’s fingerprints through the system in hopes of identifying him not as a “background check”. Sure, if they’d found something, that would have confirmed the “thug” idea. But the reason, to try and find out who someone is, is a good one and innocent one. Try not to make it sound like they “backgrounded” the victim but not the shooter.

        Of course they should have checked GZ and apparently did, sometime later, as we got all the records in the evidence dumps. Perhaps in first instance the records only show convictions, not arrests. And convictions he’s NEVER HAD, they’ve always been fixed..

        Same with the toxicology. Routine part of an autopsy, so nothing to be upset about that they did tox on Trayvon. GOOD reason to be upset they didn’t do one on GZ, because I’m sure they normally should, and saying “only if the person appears affected” was just an excuse made up afterwards. .

        • longtimegeek says:

          “Of course they should have checked GZ and apparently did, sometime later…”

          “Same with the toxicology… GOOD reason to be upset they didn’t do one on GZ…”

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: