Open thread

Thursday, July 18, 2013

Good morning:

I’ve started an open thread because the thread regarding Judge Nelson’s bad instructions is too long and I am not ready to write a new post.


323 Responses to Open thread

  1. How did he know it was a 5-1 hold out?

    • jm says:

      Another poster suggested O’Mara was notified by B37’s husband who is a lawyer after perhaps B37 told her husband what was going on and husband lawyer told O’Mara. .

      Don’t know if that is possible but it surprised me Taaffe was spot on prior to juror B37 said went on during deliberations in her interview, that in the end 5 jurors found Zimmerman not guilty with 1 holdout.

    • racerrodig says:

      At :20 seconds “…I….know…5 to 1…” Really Frank ? Apply some of that “short term vision” and talk your way out of that shit !!

  2. racerrodig says:

    Let me tell ya something. In my drag racing days, when I’d win an event of any size or class and get the car stopped and get my “shut down” routine completed, I’d be hooting and hollering like a madman….and that was from good event. My wife, friends, crew and when I drove someone else’s car, the owner got to me, my vitals were off the scale.

    I have video from the in car cam that are real funny in fact. When the win light went on, even when I hadn’t yet crossed the finish line you could hear the outburst “Yeah !!!!! Yeah !! Yeah !!!” and what ever, over the sound of an open header 800 HP Big Block Chevy.

    It is impossible for me to believe Fogen shoots someone and is that blase about it. In his “reenactment” he says “..I drew my firearm and shot him one time…” (shoulder shrug) The shoulder shrug is a dead giveaway he’s 1) Lying out his ass & 2) This is not the 1st time.

    I’ll call it like I see it.

  3. smokeegyrl says:
  4. Kandigurly says:

    Hey all! Just a quick question. Was Trayvon’s body found 40ft away from the T or 40ft away from Brandi green’s home?

  5. smokeegyrl says:

    This is not Good

    Channel 9 in Orlando just reported that jurors were not totally sequestered during the trial. Jurors were allowed visits with their families unsupervised by the judge each week. Analysts said it raises questions about the verdict now. Also, news reported that juror B37 is being investigated based on her book deal done just hours after the verdict because many believe she and her husband may have been discussing the deal during the trial. Her husband is an attorney. News also said the law leaves it up to the judge to decide but Judge Nelsen had ordered sequestration but then in writing permitted up to 2 hours a week with their families without someone making sure of not discussions about the trial. Visitors had to sign that they would not talk about the trial. I am glad B37 and her husband are being investigated because this book idea and publisher could not have happened so fast from 12:00 Saturday night to Sunday morning unless conversations had not been done. Also, I would think her husband as an attorney had an opinion about guilt or innocence on this case. B37 may have gotten in over her head with her book deal and interview. I wonder if any of this causes for an appeal and mistrial? I have no idea. Anyone else know what would have to be shown for a mistrial and retrial?

    • cielo62 says:

      Smokeegyrl- here’s the rub; the prosecution would have to make a stink about jury misbehavior. Do you really think they will?


    • groans says:

      I don’t see it on Channel 9’s web site. Do you have a link, please? Thx.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I don’t know, but somehow I don’t get the feeling that the prosecution will pursue an appeal, no matter how egregious the violations maybe, it seems that they obtained the verdict they were after. For whatever reasons that maybe,

      I will not believe that a team of seasoned prosecutorial professionals, experienced to the max, would not know to give a jury critical evidence, without explaining it’s meaning.

      Even without ever having tried a case, I saw things that were terribly wrong. As did the professor here. As we well know, there’s always a political component to any high profile case, so the Professor and myself put, what they were doing, down to strategy. Only in the end did we come to realize what the real strategy was. By that time it was too late. Not that our discoveries would have meant anything, since there would have been no way to change the way the case was being pursued even so.

      Clearly the Justice Department must find that a highly winnable case was lost, because of (intentional?) malpractice at the least. Clearly the politics in state are such that a proper trial cannot be obtained, and the nation and world view of this process is, shall we say; very much more than regrettable! History has shown that no matter how powerful a government may be, loss of confidence in it’s ability to perform equitably, leads to eventual failure! The pages of history are littered with examples.

  6. Open thread? Good. Consider this potential freak show. It ain’t over until the Fat Lady sings And Shellie still has a perjury case pending. Stay with me here. They’ve got her lying and scamming on like, 137 tapes. Even though it’s Florida, seems kind of like a slam dunk conviction.

    So. Five years, and in a system without parole, that’s five flat.

    That’s a long time for a sociopath to stay loyal. Who’s gonna put money on her books? The George Zimmerman Defense Fund? Ice Cream Man? Mark O’Mara?

    Wait. I can totally see George filing for divorce.

    Or better yet, I can see Shellie testifying, in her own defense: “He put me up to it.”

    Or, since it’s Florida, will they just drop those charges, because it’s Barack Obama’s fault, that Shellie lied her ass off, under oath, in court, in a pending murder case, and the whole thing is taped?

    • racerrodig says:

      They still have plenty of time on the statute of limitations to file charges against him for perjury.

      • By statute, yes, but politically it may be too late: they should have charged both of them initially. (just an opinion, I could be wrong and have learned that the only thing predictable about our court system is that it is unpredictable)

        • racerrodig says:

          So true. I wish he’d have been charged then and can’t believe he wasn’t. If they do, he can’t win that one.

          But the irony of SheLie getting 5 years is a hoot.

  7. racerrodig says:

    I know we’re all messed up on this verdict but I can’t imagine Dunn getting off. He was drunk and the kids were 100 or so feet away playing music he felt was too loud. If he gets off I’ll organize the riots. That work ??

    I’m just learning the ropes with Federal Court in our lawsuit against Ocwen. I know the burden of proof is a little stricter and the penalties are greater, how much….I’d like to know.

    I do know that OPCO played Moron O’ Mara like game in our 1st go round and they fabricated evidence in whole sale fashion. We kicked the crap out of them but there were no penalties for fabricating any of it nor the 80 forged signatures. Our lawyer assures us that in Federal court none of that is tolerated IF we make the stink about it.

  8. GardeniaGoddess says:

    The DOJ has requested a hold on all evidence pertaining to the State of Florida v. Zimmerman.

    Guess he won’t be getting his gun back anytime soon. As I have stated before, someone should google Ronald Bourgeois, Jr. in New Orleans after Katrina.

  9. Allison says:

    Since the trial verdict I have been unable to go over to the Nut house for my daily laugh, well today I decided to and I was laughing at how pathetic Sundance is with his instructions on intellectual guidance for one of his crap articles about the ” federally protected super-secret agency within the DOJ who operate with stealth immunity on behalf of black citizens.”

    What is most bizarre and something I have not seen before is there are two threads/blogs that are password protected for treepers.

    Protected: GZ Post Trial Discussion – July 16th
    Posted on July 16, 2013 by sundance

    This post is password protected. To view it please enter your password below:

    Protected: A GZ Post For Treepers – (You know the password)
    Posted on July 15, 2013 by sundance

    This post is password protected. To view it please enter your password below:

    Maybe just another conspiracy theory by me but am thinking that maybe Fogen, West and O mara decided to stop by and thank there biggest supporters.

    These people truly make me sick but I see them as an enemy of everything I believe in and hold dear. Never turn your back on the enemy.

  10. smokeegyrl says:

    State legislators in the 31 U.S. states with the controversial “Stand Your Ground” laws would probably say that the controversial self-defense laws were designed to protect people of all races. However, statistical data proves that such a statement is completely false.

    According to a study conducted for the PBS program Frontline, white people who kill non-white people are 354 percent more likely to be legally justified in a “self-defense” case than a white person who kills another white person. This credible conclusion was drawn from homicide data collected by the FBI from 2005 to 2009.

    The Frontline study was conducted by John Roman, a senior analyst at the Urban Institute’s Justice Policy Center. Roman’s research sought to find patterns of racial inequality in the 43,500 homicides that were recorded in the FBI’s data. He then narrowed his sample size to 5000 homicides, which occurred in the same 2005 to 2009 time frame.

    In the each of the homicides for the new 5000-case sample size, there was a single shooter and a single victim who did not know one another. Roman then analyzed all the homicides defined as “justified.” A justifiable homicide is classified as a shooting by a citizen that kills a felon who is in the process of committing a felony.

    In analyzing the “justified” homicide cases, Roman found that whites that killed blacks were much more likely to be cleared of any charges than blacks who killed whites. The data to support these findings was overwhelming. Frontline then asked Roman to analyze the data again to look for racial inequalities in comparing the states with “Stand Your Ground” laws to the states without them.

    Roman used the 43,500-case sample size to compare the data. He found that whites who kill blacks in states without “Stand Your Ground” laws are 250 percent more likely to be found justified than a white person who kills another white person. However, in the ”Stand Your Ground” states, that figure soars to 354 percent.

    Numbers indeed do not lie, and this study uses verifiable and consistent data to prove the fact that severe racial inequality still exists in the American criminal justice system. Supporters of “Stand Your Ground” and political pundits may be able to argue their denials that such a race problem is a reality. However, they cannot argue with facts that derive from the necessary discipline of mathematics.

  11. fauxmccoy says:

    crane — sorry to hear of your injury. i know that pain all to well. as kids, my bro and i had a dirt bike and 30 acres to do whatever we wanted with little supervision. we were having fun with irrigation ditches and irrigation checks, had a mishap of sorts, the bro was flung head first into an electric barbed wire fence and the exhaust pipe landed on my 12 year old leg, i was wearing typical shorts and halter top cause it was 100+ outside. i did not have the strength to get it off me, had to wait for the bro to untangle himself from the fence to lift it off me.

    wound was nasty and we did our best to treat it without parental involvement because we planned to do the same damn thing as soon as health allowed. youth is wasted on the young 🙂

    heal well, my friend.

  12. smokeegyrl says:

    July 18, 2013 at 1:48pm
    In the wake of the senseless killing of Trayvon Martin … “The company known as Koch” which manufactures paper products is sponsoring and paying for Zimmerman’s legal fees because they feel he had legal right to bare arms and shoot Trayvon we are asking that people everywhere ban together and pass this information on and not purchase any of the following items because your money will be paying for Zimmerman’s lawyers and legal fees. Please do not purchase any of the following items: Angel soft toilet paper, Brawny paper towels, Dixie plates, bowls, napkins & cups, Mardi gras napkins and paper towels, Quilted northern toilet paper, Soft and gentle toilet paper, Sparkle napkins/paper towels, Vanity fair napkins. Please Fwd this Very Important information to All your Family and Friends.

  13. racerrodig says:

    We / I was victimized by the unfairness of the system. I hear ya. I’ve also been burned by hot exhaust / header pipes and I hear ya there as well and I’m sorry to hear that.

    In fact I saw the whole thing…….yeah, that’s the ticket….I was a witness. Just give me a ring and we’ll nail that bastard.

    I asked the Professor but didn’t see a reply on this, but aren’t there cases where there is jury tampering / bribery / improprieties that a new trial is ordered or am I mistaking all these mobsters being tried on the same kind of crime but with new charges and new / different victims ?

    To your 9:01 post, I also think Fogen may have been the burglar and there actually wasn’t that many. BUT on several of his “….black male…” calls listen to the call carefully. He states there have been burglaries, there are no witnesses THEN he goes on to give a description or repeats what SheLie is telling him in the background. Typical Zidiot crap !! It’s very possible he was deflecting any suspicion with misinformation.

    He’s the one who went door to door with pad and pen and asked some very personal information of every household there. That’s called “Casing the joint(s)”

    • It most certainly is called casing the joint; any cat burglar will tell you as much (they’ll also tell you to get a dog, but that’s another subject). If that cowardly, transparent stalking Zimmerman pussy came to my door with pen and paper asking me for personal information I’d slam the door on his balls.

      Fred is saying that once acquitted, that’s it. At least, he has not heard of a situation where a case was re-tried because the jury was dirty.

      Although I believe BDLR dropped the ball by not having a trauma surgeon laugh those so-called ‘injuries’ out of the courtroom, at the same time, I don’t think it would have made any difference, because Trayvon Martin was black, and it’s The South. There, I said it. Slavery may have been outlawed, but not racism.

      Therefore, you could have shown a videotape of first-degree murder to that jury and they’d still line up to kiss the likes of George Zimmerman, Mark O’Mara, and God help us, Don West’s ass.

      PS Cat burglars also love it when rich people stake the names of the alarm systems on their lawn: tells the burglar exactly what they are working with, and how much time they have. I learned this in the University of Hard Knocks, among the many other useful things I learned.

      That said, on The Outside, I have now learned how to kill, and get away with it. Pathetic. Wave a few photoshopped bogus photos about, and the jury will be in Love.

      • racerrodig says:

        Thanks ! I’m going to look into the retrials I think I’ve heard about. They may all be Federal cases and I think I recall my sons godfather who was a Federal agent (retired) talking about Philly mobsters being retried because a bribery was uncovered.

        • Please share. Federal courts are different. They generally put up with zero bullshit. Don West chewing tobacco in front of a federal judge would have been toothbrush and checkbook. Thirty days and three thousand dollars. Thank you sir may I please have another.

          Interesting to see now, what Florida, which seems to be on weed, does with this next clown: Michael Dunn, who is claiming self-defense, for shooting into a car and killing a kid, from some distance, at a gas station.

          The kid was unarmed, of course. But he was black. And it’s Florida. And he was playing rap music. So the jury will line up to kiss ass, because poor guy will have to spend the rest of his life in diapers for hearing rap music. Mainstream media will line up to support Dunn, and Fred Leatherman will get doxed, called names and threatened, for having the utter temerity to suggest that rap music is not life-threatening.

          You watch.

        • Damn, my computer. It’s double and triple posting! So sorry!

        • cielo62 says:

          Racer- the trick is that the defendant was found guilty and then jury misconduct could lead to a mistrial and new trial. This one is where the defendant was found not guilty. Who is going to raise a fuss?


          • racerrodig says:

            “Who is going to raise a fuss?”

            Easy……..Millions of members of Team Trayvon…..

  14. Sorry to interrupt, this is Crane-Station briefly on Fred’s dashboard. We are attempting to solve an issue with the blog, concerning EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion.

    Not accusing at all here, but we are oddly seeing at least three IP addresses here in the dashboard for this poster.

    It appears as though this name has been hijacked, unfortunately. Fred will have to go through each comment, so very sorry, I will sign back in under my own name.

  15. silk says:

    @aussie , so who’s fault is it? if im not mistaken , the state did not leave that out . that was there case . so who fault is it?? the jury ask nelson to instruct them on manslaughter .

  16. commenting says:

    I swear if I was in that courtroom, I would yell out===> the state is throwing the casw away….I would not have been able to resist the urge….what is the charge for disturbing a courtroom procession??…500 dollar fine?? Then i.d be invited on peirs Morgan to state my reasons for saying so…yep I would junp up in the coutroom and say….IT’S A SHOW PEOPLE, IT’S JUST A SHOW, ….SABRINA And Tracey go home…this is nothing but a show

  17. commenting says:

    The defence team better not give themselves any credit for the not guilty verdicct. I am an honest individual and if they did a good job I would admit it….the not guilty verdict was reached because of biased jurors and the lousy job of the state….or it would have been a hung jury

    • Malisha says:

      They always take credit as if they’re saints whenever they do calumny and get away with it. In our culture, the only thing that matters is winning. That’s why Fogen felt good even before he was acquitted: HE hunted down Trayvon and HE WON. HE KILLED HIM.

  18. Stormwatch says:

    BDLR should have gone with the gun recoil as being the source of Zimmerman’s facial injuries. it’s the perfect explanation for why none of the defendants blood was on the kids hands or cuffs or sleeves. Zimmerman’s face never started bleeding until he shot the kid. Someone should have written him some good lines for the closing too. Additionally, I would have told the jury in my opening that they won’t be hearing from the defendant. That puts him in a lose / lose situation. If he doesn’t testify, in closing you say to the jury, see I told ya. if he testifies, you nail him on cross. They should have spent more time on who Trayvon really was. Bring in a teacher or coach. Agree with whoever said that O’Mara and West played it a certain way and BDLR should have given it right back. Two really bad lawyers won a case and two pretty good lawyers lost a case.

    • commenting says:

      they could not talk about Trayvon’s personality, that would be opening up the door fot the defence to talk about every negative thing they discovered about Trayvon..that is y I keep saying witnesses who could paint gz as a confrontational person should have been depised to counter the claims of the witness who kept repeating on the stand that gz was a non confrontational person

  19. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Our present is now defined for us. We know the task ahead.

    We do not have to ask help in order to find somebody to love.

    We HAVE our somebody to love. We don’t have to search. We love Trayvon, Sybrina, Tracy, our children and grandchildren and seek justice for Trayvon and safety for our nations children.

    We have our direction.

    We know what is required of us!

    Let’s roll!

  20. silk says:

    again . if u can recall , judge nelson was ranked at the bottom of the barrel . so her decision to not include the aggressor with manslaughter was clearly based upon a some what bias decision . in other words , judge nelson did not beleave that zimmerman was the aggressor or she is bias . clearly both scenario dose not constitute her actions . only if it was syg . excuse my french , but she is fuck up .

    • aussie says:

      The defence and the prosecution wrote suggested instructions, and they held a long hearing about it, each arguing for and against, and she decided based on that what to leave out or leave in. It’s not all her fault.

      • bettykath says:

        I don’t agree. The part about aggression was wanted in by the state and out by the defense. JN ruled that b/c the defense wanted it out, it was out.

      • Well, I believe you are being too generous to the judge.

        She is presumed to know the law and which pattern instructions to give or to reject.

        She was not faced with a difficult decision. She just flat out blew the call.

        The question is why?

        • jm says:

          I have a lot of why questions too. How did Frank Taaffe know that the jury was deliberating 5 not guilty and 1 guilty and why was he asked to leave the courthouse grounds after he said this on national TV?

          Please comment Mr. Leatherman.

          • I have heard the same things and I do not have any answers.

          • racerrodig says:

            Lets not beat around the bush. He’s a lying, racist sack of wild wheel standing shit, and he had to be in contact with her via text / phone. There is no way around it.

            He, just like Fogen, is a sociopath and simply can’t keep his mouth shut. His “short term vision” failed him again.

        • Rigged. Can you please pass the tin foil hat. I quit watching at the end. A show trial. Sure looks like it. There are too many things wrong with this case, and over time, more may be revealed. It’s not just one thing.

        • Malisha says:

          Don’t they tell lawyers, “never ask a question that starts with the word ‘why’?”

          Well let me answer the “WHY” question re Judge Nelson:
          She did it on purpose. Either because she chose to let Fogen go, or because she was told to let Fogen go. And I don’t care which way it played because either way she is guilty. Actually, I consider a judge who deliberately does the wrong thing to be committing treason.

  21. Thrace says:

    I see on twitter that Robt Jr backed out of a Hannity interview. Someone must have told him to shut up and stay off TV.

    • Malisha says:

      So they ARE a little worried about the feds. Hmmm … that’s a surprise. Don’t they have the whole thing sewed up yet? Wow, weird.

      I hope every African American in Seminole County (except Joe Oliver, who can kiss Fogen’s ass as much as he likes) applies for a restraining order keeping Fogen away from him or her; every single last one of them has good cause to fear him because of violence and “poor judgment.” They should also file for restraining orders from Serino, who is on night patrol and obviously thinks gunning down Blacks is OK. Also from Brian Collison who, I believe, sat in on the trial one day on Fogen’s side of the room.

    • Girlp says:

      Probably daddyz and O’Mara, they see that those who see this as an injustice is growing I think O’Mara thought the rest of the US (outside of the south) saw this exactly like he does and he is finding out just how wrong he is…

  22. degraveegmailcom says:

    B37 is not opted for a strike by neither side but state did want E7 out because she knows 2 people on the defense witness list. E7 was not stricken or struck.
    The gender thing was all about B86.

  23. Malisha says:

    I was thinking about “if nothing he did leading up to the shooting was ILLEGAL then he can claim self-defense.”

    How ’bout this one: 35 Black men over age 25 but under age 40, each over 6′ tall and over 220 lb., and each having MMA training and fit and healthy, carry in their right hands a baseball bat like you buy in the sporting goods store, and in their left hands a regulation baseball glove and a regulation baseball,

    [all that is perfectly legal]

    follow Fogen home from work one day

    [perfectly legal]

    and surround him

    [perfectly legal]

    and scream as loud as they can

    [perfectly legal]

    so then, if he does something aggressive towards any of them they’re allowed to get scared to death and kill him, right?

    I mean it could happen. Perfectly legal, right?

    Oh, sorry. I meant 36 (thirty-six) men.

  24. Zimmerman was an inverse, flip side version of Franz Kafka’s ‘The Trial.”


    • PS: Mantei, you’re cool, but Bernie…I like you, for real, but you do not bring a nerf bat to a gun battle. You bring trauma surgeons. There. I said it. Don’t want to be mean, but for future reference, bring the likes of Richard Carmona to the next trial like this.

  25. smokeegyrl says:

    The View is showing Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martn

  26. smokeegyrl says:

    Good Morning all.

    Crane, I know what it is for you as a motorcyclist to have a road rash (burn) and feel for ya. Sorry for your accident. I have seen my son have that on his legs, buttocks, back, and head… as the accident he was in almost claimed his life by a careless motorist. Glad you are okay and hope your wound heals as those don’t heal quickly as you would want them. Oooowieee.

    Have a Blessed Day everyone. Hoodies still Up for me.

  27. Two sides to a story says:

    In the UK legal system, the double jeapordy rule doesn’t apply for some serious crimes if new evidence is found. This was introduced in 2003-5 in order to finally convict (last year) two of the people who were suspected of murdering Stephen Lawrence in the 1990s :

  28. colin black says:

    What we need is a Concert an Event to be held with huge Artists like Beyoncé an 50 cent mucicians of all types.

    A concert on a par with live aid.

    A Woodstock type event to honour all of the fallen martyrs like Trey an many others whos lifes were cast away.

    Because the powers that be though they held no sway with what people thought or say.

    A huge outdoor mucic festival HOODIES IN YOUR HOOD MUCIC WILL BE GOOD.

    Inbetween the Acts Prominent speakers can speak for the fallen for change an for the right of all peoples in America to be eqaull if not finaceally an socialy.

    But at least eqeall under thelaw.

    Be they accused or be they victims.

  29. Open Thread? Okay, let me get this off my chest. Part of the reason I quit watching toward the end is, BDLR could have won that case and he dropped the ball, in several major ways, I firmly believe. For one thing, he needed a dozen peer-reviewed published trauma surgeons on that stand and not a pathologist, to talk about the incredibly bogus nature of those scratches that they were calling injuries. A real trauma surgeon would laugh like a hyena: Get Out of My Emergency Room. (GOMER), you pathetic 2-5-I (I had 2 beers, five hours ago, and I was just minding my own business, when these two dudes…) GTFOOH

    Like I said, next crime he commits, they need to charge the whole pedicured, pathetic jury as well.

    But anyway, BDLR left too many holes. There’s KISS, for sure. But damn, dude, with O’Mara and West, you gotta play hard ball, because they’re dirty and everybody knows it.

    BTW, it’s now legal to kill openly in the streets, in America. America yes we can:

    • colin black says:

      Yup an why did B D L H

      Miss quote foggage practicaly in his first sentace of his closeing arguments?

      When he stated as fact that foggage told John whom was speaking to his wife.

      An talking to long .

      He said just tell her I shot someone.

      B D L H changed it to….Just tell her I killed someone….

      We all know he never said that..

      At the time I wrote why isn’t the defence objecting to that blatant LIE…

      I guese now we no why.

    • commenting says:

      Yep…and did you see how MOM demonstrated that Trayvon could have been shot when he straddled the dummy. He demonstrated that Trayvon could have been reaching back to land a punch…..that is not what gz explained, gz said Trayvon was bashing his head when he shot him, he said so in the serino and singleton intervie….what about the video where gz demonstrated how his hand was extended when he shot Trayvon. Why was it not shown at the trial?…how could there be 4 inches between the gun and Trayvon’s flesh if the shooting happened the way gz described….man I hate, I hate I hate saying so but it seems like the prosecution did a lousy job on purpose…maybe the other jurors would not have been swayed/influenced if they did a better job…however a unanimous vote is needed for a guilty verdict and I doubt that that would have happened with a second or third trial….a racist would have always ended up on the jury

      • I quit watching there toward the end, but I hear stuff about B-37 or whoever. Thing is, they ALL agreed. They each end every one of the dumb bitches loves them some Zimmerman, who has never once in his life ever taken responsibility for any number of the things he has inflicted on others. Next person he kills when he straps on that piece, they need to charge all six of them.

        • Malisha says:

          Crane, that’s another reason they HAD to find him NG: Had they come out and said he murdered Trayvon Martin, then the folks who fixed his prior felony charges in 2005 for attacking the ATF officer would become natural targets of investigation, because Fogen should not have had a CCW license, having already committed a violent crime. To protect the folks who fixed the 2005 felony, they had to fix the 2012 felony. And they will be even MORE likely to fix the future felonies he commits with his gun, which is a murder weapon, and which will be returned to him as he is turned loose to do “slave patrol” again. Legally. This is the law and this is the USA.

          • Glad I don’t live in Sanford.

            Tick tock, tick tock, let’s see. How long was it before OJ Simpson pulled an armed robbery? At least in thet case they had a good deal of prosecutorial misconduct to blame. Sigh, well. Speaking of misconduct, follow the money, and one would more likely than not find out the O’Mara was lying about the money. He 1) never was ‘broke’ and 2) knew about that hidden money back in the Lester days. Speculation? Yes. Am I a lawyer? No. However, I would not be surprised in the least, if he was playing fast and loose with the money.

            Come to think of it, we got it all wrong living in true poverty with the dumpster diving and living the bohemian writing life! How dumb *palm to forehead* We gotta get more down and dirty! (Not)

          • looneydoone says:

            Judge Kenneth Lester’s wife, Dorothy Sedgwick (sp?) is the Chief/long time prosecutor in the Orange County SA’s office. I’ve read it was she that signed off on the reduced charges and diversion programs(s)…but, as with everything else, there’s been no copy of the documentation w/her signature posted on line proving it that I’m aware of

  30. Stormwatch says:

    Now O’Mara says that Zimmerman is going to go to law school and be a prosecutor. These are some sick, sadistic people.

    • truthseeker66 says:

      Good luck to him finishing cc.

    • sparger says:

      He can’t get through jr college. How is he going to law school?

    • Thrace says:

      Who is paying for it? IIRC he didn’t have enough credits to obtain his AA degree.

    • ks says:

      What nonsense. MOM must REALLY believe everything that come out of his mouth. First GZ has to complete CC, then the rest of undergrad, then be admitted to a law school, then finish law school, pass the BAR, be admitted to a state BAR, and finally get a job in a prosecutor’s office. Um….hahahahaha…yeah right. I have a better chance of hitting the lottery.

    • gwynne says:

      I am so not worried about this.

      Is mom planning to attend college alongside fogen to help him finish his undergrad degree? Is he planning to beg for an lsat waiver and whine for a “special circumstance” admission? Is he going to sit next to his best buddy fogen through every day of law school, do all his classwork and take his tests for him??

      Because otherwise fogen doesn’t have a chance in you know where, and mom knows it.

    • Girlp says:

      I want to be a policeman, I want to be an air marshall, I want to be a judge, I want to be a fireman, I want to be a cowboy when I grow up….George has no sense of direction, no self discipline, everthing he has ever wanted to do suggest power and authority, George only has obsessions

    • riisey007 says:

      And my son wanted to be gi joe, a muppet, and some other stuff. GZ grow up. He is going to be just what he is…a loser who is a killer. He has more than enough family in law enforcement so why at 28 or 29 years old he has nothing to show for himself. Forget that piece of crap!!

    • deetruth says:


    • Beverly says:

      The flaming Ommm should begin to teach his client something about truth and reality. Why would he promote such absurdity?

      • racerrodig says:

        FuckingFogenPhoole has to go to college for four (4) years and actually graduate !!!!!!!!!!! And the chances are .000000000001%

        THEN Law School !! Needs to graduate needless to say.

        THEN, he has to clerk somewhere………Hmmmmmmmmm ??

        He spent 7 + years to not graduate a 2 year Criminal Justice course. So if 2 > than 7 then 8 would be > 30 years of school.

        Damn Sam !!! That’s just for a hypothetical # of years in school. Then he needs some years of exp. in the field so it’s a safe bet he’d be a prosecutor only in his dreams. Not to mention that room temperature IQ is a significant anchor…….just sayin’ !!

        Looks like all those black males are safe from his prosectutorial misconduct for quite some time.

    • Seriously, are they sleeping together or what?

      • racerrodig says:

        Like he’ll graduate college, Law School, and get a job as a lawyer 1st…….all the while supporting them and loving those unborn kids of his.

        Snap !! (as the kids say) Those mentored black kids will pay for his education……how did I miss that one.

    • Malisha says:

      Oh he wants to do that to let off the people who kill folks HE likes killing while prosecuting others for being “suspects.” Remember prosecutors are more powerful than judges even because there’s no review of their actions. NONE.

  31. colin black says:

    Travons loved ones were BE TRAYED.

    By a jury whom would not sway no matter what depraved actions they listened to every day.

    There minds an hearts were closed an the murder of a child to them was OK.

  32. Yorazigo says:

    Watched Tracy and Sybrina on GMA this a.m. They were their usual graceful selves, but I noticed that Tracy did a lot more of the talking than I have seen in past interviews of them.

    Mr. Crump jumped right in on a couple of Matt Lauer’s questions: One was if they thought the DOJ should prosecute (or investigate – I forget exact words); another was their feelings about the prosecution of the case.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      The rallies and vigils will occur in front of FEDERAL COURT BUILDINGS at noon this Saturday in cities including Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia and New York.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I admire Al Sharpton for knowing how to organize, where to organize, and when to organize!

        • Tzar says:

          I admire him for those reasons as well and many more

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          Yes, Tzar!

          I just transcribed his words from that video:

          This is a social movement for justice. The verdict that has been given by this jury is the decision of the jury

          But, the underlying problem with the legislation of Stand Your Ground and the other issues that have surrounded this have rendered us vulnerable to all kinds of attacks in this country.

          Let us be clear: It is now, because of these laws and upheld by a jury in this trial where anyone walking, committing no crime can be followed or approached by another civilian and they can use deadly force and say it was self defense.

          That is something that is frightening and cannot be allowed to sustain itself in our society.

          We are going to fight. On Saturday night, we lost the battle. But, the war is not over. And, we intend to fight.

          Let me say, before we open up (for questions) that we urge all who participate with us to do so nonviolently and peacefully.

  33. jm says:

    I haven’t kept up with all posts so I don’t know if this was addressed but 2 things I thought were strange at the end of this trial.

    1. Frank Taaffe said on HLN show that the jury was deliberating and it was 5-1 for not guilty with 1 holdout. Everyone blew him off, but juror B37 confirmed that at the end it was 5-1 with 1 holdout. Later Taaffe was asked to leave courtroom because of this prediction. What do you make of this.

    2. Does anyone find it strange that Martin’s parents were advised not to come to hear the verdict? You would think that would be important to them, to either stare down the jurors who held their son responsible for his death or to thank them depending on the verdict.

    Sorry if I missed a discussion on these topics. I just could not keep up reading all the posts.

    • Malisha says:

      The parents were advised BY WHOM not to come to the reading of the verdict? WHEN were they so advised? Was it done in writing?

      • jm says:

        Not sure. Angela Corey kind of acknowledged this on CNN or HLN. Do not know why or what attorney advised them.

        Just saw commercial on HLN that the parents would explain on Nancy Grace why they weren’t in courtroom.

        Just thought it was strange, along with Taaffe’s statement that turned out to be true that there was 5/1 not guilty with 1 holdout and he later was asked to leave courthouse grounds because of this statement.

      • truthseeker66 says:

        I read a comment on this blog stating their attorney advised them to stay away due to death threats.

      • Johnnie says:

        I believe it was their minister. I’m glad they did not come. To see Zimmerman and his lawyers smile and gloat was something that even I didn’t want to see. As soon as they said “Not Guilty” I turned my pc off immediately but not before seeing Zimmerman smile and shake West’s hands who was smiling like he had just won a trillion dollar lottery. Pathetic. I get literally sick every time I think about this. Poor Trayvon. He didn’t stand a chance that night and was not given a chance in that jury room. I had a hard time sleeping that night and several nights afterward. In fact this still haunt my dreams.

        • jm says:

          What if it was guilty verdict and they could smile and thank jurors? I just don’t get it UNLESS they knew it went badly by the closing arguments.

          Or maybe they sensed a not guilty like Rachael said she did by looking at the jury members?

          Just seemed off not to have them there.

        • gwynne says:

          Trayvon’s parents have endured unimaginable pain from the second they found out about the killing of their son. They have suffered bravely through months and months of the legal process. They certainly deserve their privacy at that moment, and I will never judge their decision.

      • riisey007 says:

        Tracy one of the family attorneys and Ben Crump had stated that they had already said that they would not be there regardless of the verdict. I think they wanted to be at home for it, also Ben said they were wanting to attend church in Miami.

        Taffe, did say it very much matter of factly and Nancy Grace shut him down as a liar but he came on the next day back peddling because he was thrown out of court and off the campus. But he knew, B37 husband told O’mara I am sure of it.

        • jm says:

          riisey007 says: “Taffe, did say it very much matter of factly and Nancy Grace shut him down as a liar but he came on the next day back peddling because he was thrown out of court and off the campus. But he knew, B37 husband told O’mara I am sure of it.”

          Wow, that is probably the connection and why Taaffe was thrown off courthouse grounds.

          • Malisha says:

            There’s a different truth to any story Taaffe tells. He wasn’t thrown out of court and off campus. Don’t believe a word he ever says about anything. There must be some story that he wanted to hide and that is the story he used instead. Probably he went in there when nobody was allowed, and the “deputies” allowed it, but they were afraid somebody saw so he and they decided together on this story to tell in case someone busted them. Like Fogen saying he got on Trayvon’s back to see if he had something in his hands.

    • aussie says:

      I can’t recall the details, but it was announced on Friday that arrangement were being made for them to have privacy when the verdict came in.

      So it wasn’t just before, it was the day before, when the result could not have been certain yet.

  34. KateW says:

    I know there were missteps and the prosecution could have done some things differently but I think their arguments were effective. They were effective enough to get 2 for manslaughter and 1 for murder 2. Unfortunately, these 3 women were not strong enough or wanted to fight hard enough against the other 3 that I am almost positive were the killer’s trolls lying their way into the jury pool. There was no way the killer’s supporters were going to change their minds.

    I think, and I saw the Vinnie Politan interview with BDLR and Corey and I feel BDLR was sincere. During the press conference post verdict he was noticeably angry. He usually has a soft sound to his loud voice but you could tell he was upset by the tone. Mantei looked defeated and was so gracious about remember the Martins in all of this. John Guy did a great job too.

    The judge was of that jurisdiction right? The prosecution was from another district, Jacksonville, so perhaps the judge leaned more towards the home team than the away team. I say that because of some of the comments I am reading here. I may have missed it but someone said she was smiling as she read the verdict. 😦
    The back and forth with the prosecution and probably the most egregious was leaving information out of the instructions. Then again, perhaps it wouldn’t have mattered because some of the jurors were probably too lazy to read it anyway.

    • colin black says:

      The only miss steps were by Trayvon setting foot in a gated community in Sanford America an thinking he was safe from execution for the colour of his scin an fashion choices.

      The presecution gig more than enough to convict.

      Members of this jury dint care that A CHILD was stalked an murdered.

      They knew fogggage was guilty an applauded an lauded his actions.

      An as for bullying others to agree

      No excuse hell would freeze over before I agrees to a not guity or even a manslaughter verdict

      Murder 2 or one realy but murder two is what I vote an that’s how it would stay.

      Id tell them I will hang the jury an the more they tried to bullie me Id just start a refrain


      Ome million green bottles sitting on a wall an if one green bottle;e should accidently fall

    • Cercando Luce says:

      The defense lawyers were from Orange County– remember the motion for Fogen to travel out of Seminole to see his lawyers? The defense were not the home team, but it appears the defense cause was considered the home team cause.

  35. Malisha says:

    Be CAREFUL!!
    (My kid used to ride and I was out of my mind at all times with anxiety!)

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I lost a best friend in a bike accident. Every time I see a rider on the streets or freeways, I fear for them. My son-in-law is an avid biker . . .

  36. sadlyyes says:

    read it and weep.people
    we have got to change things

    • Unbelievable. I may address that in an Over Easy at FDL and credit you. This is beyond the pale. There is so much wrong with this world. Thank you for the link.

      • sadlyyes says:

        i just absolutely
        LOVE animals,wild or domesticated
        thanks Crane,sending you love and healing…take lots of vitamin C for that burn,plastic surgeons secret!

        • I knew that and two things.1) Odd that there were two self-proclaimed animal rescue women on the jury, listening to West go on and on about how every red-blooded American straps on a sidearm to shoot people’s barking dogs and 2) Our neighborhood ‘tomcat,’ who was abandoned, we think, is doing just fine. Everyone loves and cares for him.

          • sadlyyes says:

            i have met some very strange supposed animal lovers here in Tn.
            people are weird,animals honest

          • Oh! We love to go to Tennessee, so lovely, but anyway. A few weeks ago we were driving in rural Western Tn, and some Fuck Nut in front of us hit a baby deer, and disemboweled it. The deer was still alive and suffering, and there were six other vehicles and some people in nearby homes that came running. It was horrific. I was holding the deer’s head and a man in a truck said “I know it’s hard but you’ve got to put it out of its misery.” I couldn’t do it. Everyone was so upset, but that driver who hit the deer..kept right on driving. In addition to what he did, he could have also potentially killed several people on the road. Just disgusting.

            We breathe the same air, believe it or not.

          • Malisha says:

            Don’t be impressed by the “animal savior” types. Hitler was very good to his dog, would have KILLED anyone who tried to harm his dog.

          • It was in The Glass Castle, right, where the author talks about how her mother always found something good to say of everyone, and when the author asked her, “What about Hitler?” her mother replied, “He loved dogs.”

  37. abbyj1 says:

    Crane-Station, Sorry to hear about the burn injury. It must hurt–hope it heals soon.

    Agreed that the Court of Public Opinion is rendering a much harsher decision that the crooked court of Florida. I was up late last night and thinking about the convoluted, twisted interview B37 gave where she stated, “George has a good heart, but just went too far,” and that “He should never have gotten out of his car.” Her view of Trayvon was right out of Zimmerman’s Playbook of Lies: “Trayvon played a huge role in his own death,” and referred to him “acting suspiciously” and “walking in the rain,” as sufficient cause to target him.

    Her biased views were nothing short of obscene to me.

  38. Let’s see if this link works.

    Dear pathetic miserable piece of shit jury:

    Here is a photo of my burn. Okay with you guys if I hunt down and execute the tail-gater in the street then?


    • KateW says:

      Yeah that looks nasty.

      • And that’s days later, and not photoshopped, unlike Zimmerman’s pussy-ass fake bogus photo that the jury bought, hook, line and sinker. God. Talk about dumb as a box of hammers, that jury. They give women a bad name.

      • And that’s days later, and not photoshopped, unlike Zimmerman’s pussy-ass fake bogus photo that the jury bought, hook, line and sinker. God. Talk about dumb as a box of hammers, that jury. They give women a bad name.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Oh, that looks so horrible, Crane!

    • Dave says:

      Well….I think killing him would be a little harsh but a major beatdown would be appropriate.

      • Yeah. Who the hell tailgates a motorcycle? Who does crap like that? But anyway, all we need nowadays is a camera, and any time we get a scratch, well, we can find somebody we don’t like, kill them, and then claim self-defense, right?

        • bettykath says:

          I’ve met two people who were seriously injured by tailgaters. One was in the hospital with my mother. The other lost his leg and had serious neurological damage. He was quite young. His wife was due with their first child.

    • Tzar says:

      ouch….that looks serious
      lots of bacitracin
      lots of sleep
      lots sun (vit. D)
      and watch for fevers

      • Thank you. I slept the entire day yesterday, didn’t mean to, but did. Got it open to air. Considered silver sulfadiazine, but I am so old school, wanting to keep things dry. Burns are so strange. It only took a moment, and it did not even show up immediately.

        I guess my point is, there are real injuries to the skin, and then there are bogus scratches that clean up immediately. Like Zimmerman. Who goes and puts gigantic, inappropriate elephant ear bandages on those non-injuries. What a fucking joke.

        • Tzar says:

          a good rule of thumb for wounds, given to me by a kindly old surgeon, is
          “if it is wet dry and if it dry wet it”

        • Tzar says:

          Considered silver sulfadiazine

          even more appropriate than bacitracin

        • Cercando Luce says:

          Silver sulfadiazine is fairly old school– I was given it in the 70’s for road rash and it worked well– I kept the jar for years and used it for subsequent burns for 25 years.

          • Yes, silver is very old school, and it may be medical urban legend, but I think its antiseptic quality was discovered by accident. Coins used to have silver in them, and if a coin was placed on the skin, there would be a coin-shaped area of protection., Resistance does not seem to develop with silver, and it has been popular for burns for many years.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Ouch! That looks very painful. I hope you feel better soon.

    • riisey007 says:

      God Bless you that is a nasty burn.

    • operacarla says:

      That looks horrible! Do you and the Professor ever ride the Natchez Trace Parkway?

      • Oh! It looks so beautiful, but we have not ridden on it. Truth is, we live a pretty secluded life and rarely go anywhere, except sometimes we go into a small place in Tennessee. I only recently learned that I have ancestors from the little place in Tennessee we visit.

    • parrot says:

      Put some aloe on it!

      I have so much of it in my garden.

      • A cactus? Sooo cool!

          • I will look into this. The burn has settled a bit; at first my leg/ankle was so swollen it looked broken…and it was just oozing like crazy, I wanted the ooze to stop, so I spent the whole day with the leg elevated. I read that burns take so long to heal, so if aloe vera can speed up the healing I will try it. Plus, I just can’t ‘do’ the infection thing…trying to avoid the doctor. Thank you.

          • cielo62 says:

            Crane- ibuprofen for pain and swelling. L- Lysine for strengthening immune system. Found at any food store supplements section. And FishMox ( amoxicillin sold for fish. Online you can find the amount for a human being. The Navy seals use this to avoid being grounded from a mission if they get an infection)

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • racerrodig says:

            “…And FishMox ( amoxicillin sold for fish.”

            How do you get them to take it ?? What I don’t know is astounding!!!!!

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- with fish, you just throw a capsule in the water. 🙂

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • racerrodig says:

            That’s a good thing…….I’d have been tickling it’s “throat” so it would open up like I had to do with our cats years ago. Cats seem to hate medicine…..go figure.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- I use fishmox for my cats. It saves on the vet bills when I KNOW all they have is an infection.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Thank you, for the comment and for the patience with the art supplies. I needed to delay shipping due to an unexpected computer technical problem, literally overuse of a second laptop now. That said, the supplies are packed and will ship next week.

            I am interested in what you say about the FishMox, because I do have a good deal of internal hardware distal to this burn: ten screws and a plate in my heel. I can NOT afford a hardware infection! Lord have mercy, that would be a disaster.

          • I will look into this. The burn has settled a bit; at first my leg/ankle was so swollen it looked broken…and it was just oozing like crazy, I wanted the ooze to stop, so I spent the whole day with the leg elevated. I read that burns take so long to heal, so if aloe vera can speed up the healing I will try it. Plus, I just can’t ‘do’ the infection thing…trying to avoid the doctor. Thank you.

          • racerrodig says:

            This is the shit as the kids say…..I kept a tube and a First Aid Kit in my race car trailer and when we go play paintball.


            I can’t say much about alow vera, but I know this stuff flat out works.

  39. KateW says:

    Oh yes, there is a rally in Queen NY today. Not sure the time.

  40. KateW says:

    Juror B37 is also the prosecution’s failure as well. This is what happens when you pick people that are too lazy to read. When she said she doesn’t read the newspaper and just uses it as a toilet for her birds, that was a red flag. That thing about the protests being “riots”. I mean come on. RED FLAG!

    Then she pretty much showed herself. In the interview when asked about the videos and what she thought of Zimmerman’s own words she basically said ehh it was too much to watch, there were things that were too much to read and I am just too lazy to go through any of it. I had my mind made up and that is where it was going to stay.

    I am also disturbed by this calling him “George”. Does she know this guy? What is up with that. She was crying for “George”, she was crying for herself…who was she crying for because it certainly wasn’t for Trayvon Martin. She was feeling sorry for herself.
    She is a mess and I don’t like that she tried to back peddle now that she sees the backlash.

    So in all honesty, what in the world were they doing back there if they werent really looking over the evidence.

    • endlessummer76 says:

      Apparently they were having mani-pedis. Looking at evidence might have smudged her nail polish.

    • I could be wrong, but I think they attempted to get rid of her using a peremptory challenge and Judge Nelson sustained a defense objection to the challenge on the ground that it was gender based.

      I’m saying this from memory, so I may be mistaken. If someone has a better memory or notes that confirm or deny my memory, please chime in.

      • jm says:

        Listening to her interview, several bits and pieces at a time, I think she is a stealth juror. She puts thoughts into GZ’s mind and spoke of him fondly. To give the interview I thought was to further clarify to the masses who may be disgruntled that GZ was a “good” guy with a big heart just trying to help people. She did not find Rachael “credible” even though phone records backed up her story. So many things wrong with her story. Plus she sounds like a take-charge person who probably convinced other not-so-strong jurors that they could not find Zimmerman guilty under the “law”.

        No wonder the 4 jurors issued a statement disassociating themselves with her. She sounded like a friend of ZImmerman, an apologist.

        I am looking forward to hearing from the hold-out juror who finally caved.

      • bettykath says:

        My notes indicate that both state and defense accepted her but I shredded them yesterday 😦

      • degraveegmailcom says:

        You are correct. Defense came with the gender based challenge and the judge sustained it. I’m going to look for the
        video. Defense must have been prepaired for that but prosecution dit not seem prepaired to fight for their opinions.

      • elcymoo says:

        My notes indicate that the prosecution tried to strike both B37 and E6, using peremptory challenges, and the defense challenged the strikes on the basis of gender. If I recall correctly, there was a sidebar and Judge Nelson sustained the challenges by the defense team.

        • amsterdam1234 says:

          I went back to check the old threads. They never attempted to strike B37. The attempted to strike E6 and B76 I believe.

          • bettykath says:

            That’s what I found too.

          • elcymoo says:

            After re-checking my notes this afternoon, I just came back to this thread to correct my previous comment. You’re right; it was juror B76, and not B37, the prosecution tried to strike.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        I believe the challenges were for E6 and B76 not B37 professor….

      • J4TMinATL says:

        That is correct.

    • Seems like they were spending those 16 hours persuading those who thought Fogen was guilty to vote that he wasn’t.

      In other words, JN could have simply empaneled the jury, sent them to the jury room, and Fogen would’ve been acquitted without a trial, jury instructions, or any presentation of evidence whatsoever. In my view, the result is the same.

    • Girlp says:

      She heard it all before she was called for jury duty, she heard it from O’Mara.

  41. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    this juror told those parents they LIED about that being their son and they knew the murderer lied lied lied lied and gave him a pass.. I have no respect for them .. none of them. AND the murderer not only stained his sole but every body elses that lied and covered for him.
    I may have a job to do …but I’m not selling my soul to satan to do it..many many many will reap what they sowed.

  42. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    it’s not just black people that need to wake up and it’s everyone.. that’s when a difference will be made… some people don’t give a crap about a black voice let alone a black life…
    it was obvious the parents of Trayvon liars… his brother liar… all black witnesses except for the guy happy to holler at the murderer and the records keepers liars so it’s going to take more than black people

    • bettykath says:

      It’s whites that need to attack the rampant racism. Bigots don’t hear those they oppress. They only hear peers or those more powerful than themselves. There is no way they will hear or understand those they think are “lesser”.

      • deetruth says:

        Yeah, like B37 didn’t hear Rachel.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Just as Fogen didn’t even hear his victim’s screams for help…

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        exactly, too many of us whites don’t want to see the truth, or fall for the loud mouth obnoxious voices that always blame the “race card” which is a term i abhor. We only see it as the “race card” because we haven’t been dealt that hand and don’t have to live everyday with the injustices.

        I remember an Oprah Winfrey show many many many moons ago where they did this experiment, and this stone faced woman was talking about race and that in fact it was those with blue eyes that were in fact the dumb ones…..everyone in the audience was up in arms because “i’m not racist, it’s not fair, do your experiment on someone who is racist”…even me i thought well i have blue eyes but i’m not racist so why is this bitch attacking me, it’s not fair…..but then i got it, that was the whole point of the experiment. Black people may not be criminals but they are always looked upon as though they are, they are oppressed and always have been, ITS NOT FAIR. But they don’t get to go back to being privileged after the show like we blue eyed people do, the nightmare, the bigotry doesn’t just disappear when the audience has learned it’s lesson. For black people it is never ending and seemingly unstoppable.

        Us white people are ignorant because we have never experienced what it is like to be black. There is a huge ugly history of oppression and degradation. I did a uni class and we looked at African representations. I felt sick. There it was written in history forever how savage and uncivilized Africans were….i was horrified for my fellow African class mates that this is what has been written about them for centuries. I was embarrassed and ashamed. No wonder things aren’t right between us all. It is because of this ignorance that us white people who have educated ourselves or simply have the courage to look at the situation honestly need to make more noise because anytime a black person does they are accused of playing the God ugly term of “race card”. There are a lot of white people that hate this discrimination and we should be yelling loudest of all.

  43. KateW says:

    I too am sorry to hear this. Sending lots of prayers your way. I also wholeheartedly agree with all that you have said.

  44. LiveByTheGulf says:

    Read an excellent viewpoint this morning that could take the place of Professor Leatherman’s viewpoint to begin discussion.

    Four words of advice for African Americans in the wake of George Zimmerman’s acquittal:

    Wake the hell up.

    The Sunday after Zimmerman went free was a day of protest for many of us. From Biscayne Boulevard in Miami to Leimert Park in Los Angeles, to the Daley Center in Chicago to Times Square in New York City, African Americans — and others who believe in racial justice — carried out angry, but mostly peaceful demonstrations.

    Good. This is as it should have been.

    But if that’s the end, if you just get it out of your system, then move ahead with business as usual, then all you did Sunday was waste your time. You might as well have stayed home.

    Read more here:

  45. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    And the grass is gone, the boy disappears
    And rain keeps falling like helpless tears
    And what have they done to the rain
    Just a little breeze out of the sky

  46. sadlyyes says:

    because it is SO IMPORTANT,im posting this again

  47. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    The first time someone shows you who they are believe them…MS. Maya Angelou..
    The Murderers .. previous bad acts speak to who he was even before Feb 26th…no more need be said

  48. Dan Q. Smith says:

    I’m heartbroken. I knew what happened the first day I heard about this murder. I cried on and off for two days when I learned Trayvon Martin was murdered. And now this. It just seems to me the jury instructions were an invitation on a silver platter to find poor George with what he was facing, given what appeared to him blah blah. I haven’t seen jury instructions as blatantly bias since I read the ones given at the Lizzie Borden trial.

    I’d like to thank our host and everyone who posts here. It’s comforting to be among like minded people. A surprising number of my white friends believe, without ever having looked at the evidence, who ignore it when you put it in their face, Zimmerman’s lie, based as it is on a rascist stereotype, and nothing else.

    They’d be singing a different tune if it were their precious spoiled brats being chased through the streets and on foot by a stranger with a semi-automatic pistol.

    BettyKathy, I owe you an apology. I thought you were playing both sides when all you were doing was looking at everything from all sides. I was wrong. I’m so sorry.

    • bettykath says:

      Dan, No apology is necessary but thanks for making it. You called it as you saw it. It was frustrating that some saw my questions in a negative light, but in making new paths you sometimes step in prickers.

  49. colin black says:

    20 yea baby

    Woow! says:

    July 18, 2013 at 3:47 am

    Pictures were posted of B37 hugging CAC mother

    So her hubby is a space attorne

    Taken from another website:
    Supposedly her husbands name is Steven G. Horn, a space attorney in Marriett Island, Fl. Her name maybe Christine, I think she is 45 or 46

    Cyber sleuths are exposing B37.

    Her hasbands a sace cadet makes snse he married a SPACE CADET.

    • colin black says:


      I meant her hubbys a space attorney I meant .

      Whatever a space attorney is suppose if the space station gets a parking ticket or summpin.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      colin — i am not sure if all of this info re: juror B37 comes from you or from another poster and is being repeated. this is exactly the sort of ‘doxing’ that the professor has asked as not to engage in. posting such information on his blog puts him in a vulnerable position and we do not want to do that.

  50. FactsFirst says:

    GM!!! I missed y’all the last few days, but my son demanded my full attention… Anywho, Y’all gotta watch this video.. Oh how I love to see other cultures embracing ours.. This video is too cute.. There’s another video of an older white lady doing the hustle… She out danced everybody in that video.. When I find it, I’ll post that too.. This is the AMERICA I LOVE right here ~>

  51. endlessummer76 says:

    Reverend Al is organizing a 100 city march for Saturday:

    I wrote letters to FL lawmakers yesterday, and I am tweeting to them today, asking them to speak up and call for the repeal of SYG, support filing federal charges against Trayvon’s killer, and support an investigation into Juror B 37 and jury tampering in this trial.

    Our national congresspersons don’t make FL law, but they can be a loud voice. Our state congress is owned by the NRA. The only way to get through to these people is to support the boycott of Florida and hit Florida where it hurts–this state runs on tourist dollars.

    Florida does not have a state income tax. State revenue is derived primarily from sales tax. A boycott will work.

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t think “destroy the economy of Florida” is a bad idea at all. A friend of mine has been in Florida for several days on business; when she came through the airport to head back to the NorthEast, as she was clearing security, an FTA official addressed a person (of color) standing behind her, saying: “How did YOU get into first class?”

    • KateW says:

      Yay Endlesssummer76, ME TOO!! I am writing the White House, Obama and Joe Biden a letter every month and ask for a call to action! I will do it until something is done. I don’t care how long it takes.

  52. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Oh, Crane, I am so sorry to hear of your injury. How painful!
    All good wishes for a quick healing!

    • You guys are all so kind, thank you so much. I have not been to a doctor and have little nursing experience with burns, but in my self-diagnosis phase, I will share that this burn is not terribly painful. Which leads me to think it may be a nasty second degree burn.

      More severe burns tend to burn the nerve endings that cause severe pain, and while this one is painful, it is not terribly so. Since it does not cover a whole lot of real estate, I’ll keep it clean with soap and water, because I tend to ‘old school,’ and leave it at that. One thing it did do was, it made me terribly tired.

      I certainly won’t use the photo as an excuse to execute somebody in the street.

  53. commenting says:

    Mom said trayvon did not respond to John Goode..he ignored him and kept beating gz, the prosecution should have adressed that…they should have….how quick would u turn around if y are in a struggle, probably restraining someone, and y did it take gz so long to respond to the ladies when he was mounted on trayvon…y did he ignote them…you were about to die for Christ sake…….but you ignore the fist pesrson who speaks to u?

  54. sadlyyes says:

    Dear Crane,sorry about the burn,that is one reason i never go on them,i had the same thing happen to me twice,very painful,take care

    • Dark humor: Maybe I oughta take a photo of my burn, hunt down the driver who was tailgating us, murder him in the street, and then claim self-defense. I don’t have to photoshop anything.

      Only thing is, the tail-gater was tailgating. Trayvon Martin was simply walking home.

      Crazy too, how those many so-called burglaries stopped after Zimmerman was arrested. Why? Because he WAS the burglar, IMO. How the hell else were they living in a condo, two cars, school expenses, and unemployed? Zimmerman was the one scoping homes.

      And another thing:

      Dear lying-ass, perjuring, juror/s:

      The next time he commits a violent crime, every damn one of you should be charged as well.

      • sadlyyes says:

        Trayvon had 40 dollars in his pocket when he was terrorized and killed,Fogen 12 $ and maxed out credit cards,behind in the rent for 3 months…who was the DEADBEAT

      • riisey007 says:

        You know we all came to that conclusion on bcclist once putting the pieces together and upon finding out about Frank Taffe criminal record. Taffe and Zimmerman could not stand a thief but yet Taffe did time for stealing. It is amazing how a lot of the burglaries were not seen by anyone but yet they swore it was all AA men doing them. When I got a hold of the SPD reports last year it was said that they did not know the race of the suspect due to no arrest and no witneses, there were 3 arrests of AA men. I believe Zimmerman cruised around with his flashlight shining it about and casing the homes. Neighborhood watch is the perfect cover it seems that he did not want anyone else but his friend Taffe to be in on NW with him. The white lady who’s door was kicked in never saw the AA but Shellie just so happen to see a black male running across the woman’s yard. Taffe home was so called being burglarized according to Zimmerman he was the AA male go through an open window but when cops arrived he said he ran but the police saw no signs of an intruder. If a person really would have thought about it and set a trap they may have caught them two big fish a long time ago. I am curious as to when the crime started and why the HOA said that he didn’t feel they needed NW. Don’t forget the goon squad, where are they and why didn’t someone look into that? Along with big boi the dog? Zimmerman always showed up at the scene of the crime and he constantly baggered in email the police, wanting to know what info they have but yet when she inquired as to who all was going to be in the NW program with him he would not respond. That info was released in emails last year. Too bad a lot of evidence wasn’t allowed in.

        • I think Zimmerman was doing the casing and the thieving, along with a good deal of help, and he was using the HOA fake ‘watch captain’ as a front to do it.

          What watch captain on the planet knows how to kill but not how to initiate CPR?

        • chills101 says:

          Thats exactly wtf i was thinking. This shht was exactly out of some delusional people mind. This doesn’t make since. This is a crazy world i swear. How did this happen in 2013? Unexplainable

      • chills101 says:

        I doubt he’ll commit another crime. He’s going to be rich. I hope karma catches his ass, because thats my last hope. IDK what we can do to fix this but we’ve come to far to let this slide.

        • He gets off on committing crimes and lying about it afterward.

          Rich or poor, I think he will continue that pattern of behavior.

          • racerrodig says:

            I have the feeling someone will find out where he is and start “following” him, I’m sorry, going in the same direction, to provoke his paranoia and force an incident, and take him out. I just have that feeling.

            He’s the type who will never see it coming either. He’ll get riled up and provoke an incident, not seeing the follower’s partner with a video camera 200 feet away. Fogen will attack him and the follower will be filmed standing his ground.

            Didn’t Fogen say he had hoped somebody filmed his murder of Trayvon, knowing damn well it wasn’t on video ??

            Bye Bye Fogen…….

          • Malisha says:

            That scenario has occurred to me, Racer.

          • Malisha says:

            This comment got misplaced, turned up in the wrong place. Ooops! 😳

          • racerrodig says:

            Lots of Neo – Sporin works. I’ve had a few like that in my lifetime.

            Neo – Sporin and bandage loosely. It keeps an infection away and helps it heal.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Whatever his revenue stream, Fogen likely never will be rich because he’s too stupid to save or invest.

          With zilch money management skills, he and SheLie will be worse off than lottery winners blowing through a windfall because, in part, they’ll face huge legal bills for both charges awaiting and all the stupid moves, some possibly criminal, they haven’t yet made.

          Hopefully, no lawyer takes them on pro bono when Eric Holder and the Feds coming knocking. Am also optimistic that Parks & Crump move forward on civil litigation that effectively shuts off their gravy train.

        • I respectfully disagree. I believe he is a seasoned career criminal,and a worshiped pathological liar.

          Ironic, isn’t it, that he did the killing, but it is his wife who may actually end up doing some time. For lying under oath. I I were in her shoes, and ended up with a sentence, behind his antics, I would be furious.

          • racerrodig says:

            I also believe she was there and saw him pull the trigger. There is a reason that the Feds and the state of FL said there are phone records so damning and they still have not been released.

            Are the Feds going to prosecute him and ambush his lying ass in that court, ‘cuz that’s what the Feds do when so inclined.

          • Oh, that would be glorious. Federal Court: Bail denied, first of all, just for a warm-up. Grab Ass Circus Ball in the Park will be Over.

            The Feds take their time. Years, even. I would not want to be a defendant in a Federal case. At all.

            But then again, there’s that Florida Pedicured Jury factor to consider. You could show them a time-stamped videotape of murder, and they’d still want to sleep with Zimmerman, seems like.

            BTW, I admit to my personal bias regarding courts but this case is starting to reek. It’s not just one little faux paus. It’s a bunch of things. I stopped watching when Bernie called a pathologist to testify about the head cuts. He needed preferably a trauma surgeon, but almost anyone but a pathologist. My father and brother are both pathologists, and both would have refused to testify about areas that are not in their expertise. My dad would have laughed and given them a referral, and my brother would have told them to go to hell and contact someone else, to testify about this area of medicine.

            But, it wasn’t just that. It was the weirdness of the Court of Appeals, the fucked up jury instructions, the lead prosecutor who missed several key points, the jury, and on and on.

            There are still huge parts of this story missing.

          • racerrodig says:

            This concrete pounding is beyond pathetic. I’d testify and bring those pictures from my youth……

            BDLR “… Mr. racer, you say you’ve had experience with injuries due to a concrete weapon.”

            racer “Yes, that’s correct, quite a few in fact”

            BDLR “Okay, you’ve provided the state with these pictures from some time ago which are States evidence 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108 andddddd 109, do these look familiar?

            racer “Yes, they were taken when I fell off my bike on the sidewalk in pictures 103, 104 & 105. Pictures 106 & 107 were when I was pushed down the porch steps at my grandparents and 108 & 109 are from an accident where the front brake on my 10 speed locked up and pitched me over the handlebars”

            BDLR “Okay, lets look at 103, 104, & 105. It looks like quite a few abrasions to your knees, hands and elbows………..left and right side, would that be accurate?”

            racer “Yes sir, that would be correct”

            BDLR “The injuries, can you describe them and exactly how they occurred?”

            racer “Yes………..well, I was riding along and my brother darted out from behind our dads pickup camper and I had to just drop down so I wouldn’t hit him. He’s a few years younger and I was sure if I hit him, he’d get hurt”

            Moron O “Objection”

            Judge “Overruled”

            BDLR “Is that the only reason?”

            racer “……uh, well, he seemed to blame me for everything and I didn’t want a whooping because of his mistake”

            BDLR “…continue”

            racer “Well, I went straight down and I had abrasions on my hands. my elbows and knees”

            BDLR “From the pictures, they are wide injuries, is that accurate”

            Moron O “Objection……leading”

            Judge “Sustained”

            BDLR “Can you describe those injuries”

            racer “You already did sir, the ones to my knees are as wide as my entire kneecaps, the ones on my elbows covered the entire back of my elbow and the palms of my hands were a mess……..kind of, like, I guess, ground meat”

            racer “…in fact the pictures are self explanatory”

            BDLR “Okay, did you slide along the concrete?”

            racer “No sir, I went straight down and just tried to break my fall.

            BDLR “In 106 & 107, did you slide during that event?”

            racer “No sir, I was pushed off my grandparents porch by my brother onto the sidewalk that runs next to it………same thing, straight down”

            BDLR “It looks like your brother hated your knees”

            O’ Moron “Objection”

            Judge “Overruled”

            racer “Up yours O”

            Judge “Did I just hear you cough sir”

            racer “Yes Your Honor, excuse me”

            BDLR “Ground Meat you say……….”

            racer “……yes……..ground beef to be exact.

            BDLR “So they weren’t just a single 1/4 inch long scratch then”

            racer “What, I don’t know how hitting the concrete would give you a single small scratch”

            O’ Moron “Objection”

            racer “In fact, everyone I know has had a……”

            O Moron “Objection”

            racer “…..fall of some kind and had knees that bad or

            O’ Moron “Objection……Your Honor, any evidence that is presented is prejudicial to my client”

            Judge “Up yours O, I mean…Overruled….continue”

            racer “…….Oh, or worse”

            It’s not that hard to understand…..unless your a FL juror I guess.

          • ROFLMFAO. You owe me a can of Windex.

            Damn, that’s good, you need to write!

            I’ll just add this: the entire jury is composed of soccer players. People who carry spare ACL braces in the trunks of their cars, and who sport hardware in various and sundry parts of their body. Or else, in a world that made sense, the jury would be composed entirely of 8-year-olds. They could figure things out way better than that pedicured mess.

          • racerrodig says:

            Want me to do one of my nose injury ?? These are all true stories.

          • That’s the thing, I have no doubt whatsoever that they are true. You and I are likely the King and Queen of Spectacular Injuries. I have internal hardware (lots) to show for it, but on the nose thing, here’s what happened to me, during the pendency of Zimmerman’s bogus pussy nose whine. I pulled a chair from the top of a bookstore-style heavy bookcase that I have for my books, and the chair smacked me in the face/nose. I had a black eye that took about a month to heal, while it turned various interesting colors. (including yellow)

            I never whined to a next-day doc in the box about a smack to the face, and George Zimmerman never had anything even remotely close to a broken nose, or he would have had a nasty bruise to show for it. And any trauma doc on the planet would have testified to as much, so it galls me that Bernie had a pathologist on the stand.

            So yeah, bring it. Bring a legit account of a nose injury. It would be a breath of fresh air, especially after the Thou Shalt Not Kill Unless You’re a Big Fat Lying Whining Bigot.

          • mrsdoubtfire says:

            O’Mara “This is the photo Officer Wagner took at your equest?”
            Laur “Yes”

          • Before I even watch:


            Piled high and deep, that nose whine is. How pathetic.

            He is fortunate this time, because inmates would not be putting up with his horse shit.

          • Beverly says:

            Pathetic, indeed. Superficial, I think, was the word….But, how are you? Hope you are mending and taking care of your leg. B

          • racerrodig says:

            Thankfully I have no internal hardware despite the injuries over the years. But here’s a witness testimony version of a nose injury.

            BDLR “So racer, have you had any other injuries such as those claimed by the defendant Mr. FogenPhoole”

            racer “Yes, I had a nose injury when I was a junior in high school”

            BDLR “Can you tell us what happened?”

            racer “Yes I can. When I was in school I played football and……”

            BDLR “What position did you play”

            racer “I played wide receiver, actually we were called split ends back then, and corner back”

            BDLR “Okay”

            racer “…….and I was a corner blitz coming in from the left defensive side. The quarterback was left handed so I was on his blind side. As I was just about to sack him, he saw me and instinctively threw his right hand to to keep me at least at arms length. His hand went inside my face mask and hit my nose”

            BDLR “Okay, then……”

            racer “Well I got him down and I jumped up to celebrate my tackle and the Referee came over, looked at me strangely and ejected me from the game.”

            BDLR “Why would he do that, did you do something illegal or was the celebration unsportsmanlike?”

            racer “No……….I was…….ahhhhhh…….bleeding excessively. See….it was an early October game and it was in the 90’s at game time and with the hot sweat and all I never felt the blood running down my nose and down my neck. The Ref saw it and because he felt I was badly injured, but on my feet, he made me leave the game. Sometimes when they see blood they stop the game and everyone has to take a knee, but I was moving so he told me off the field”

            BDLR “Okay…… did you feel the impact from the guys hand when he hit you ?”

            racer “There was a sting, but in the heat of the game, you don’t feel it as bad as if you just got hit with something like an accident at work pr something”

            BDLR “What medical attention did……..strike that……how badly were you bleeding first of all”

            racer “By the time I got to the sidelines and looked down at my jersey……and we were wearing our away white uniforms….both jersey and pants, you couldn’t read the number on the front. I was bleeding pretty bad”

            BDLR “Okay… I see this picture clearly, there could not have been more than a few seconds from the time you…..”

            O’ Moron “Objection”

            Judge “Grounds”

            O’ Moron “Leading your honor and any testimony given is preju….”

            Judge “Denied……please contine”

            racer “..a few seconds from the impact, maybe (in thought) about, 4 or 5 seconds at the most from the time he hit my nose to when I was up and in view of the Ref…..the Referee, who saw the blood instantly………oh, it was running out, but no more than 5 seconds and I had a lot of visible blood”

            BDLR “And how long would you say……

            O’ Moron “Your honor, this testimony about an actual event with a nose bleed is prejudicial to…”

            Judge “Sorry….I mean Denied”

            BDLR “Okay, we can see the visual, continue”

            racer “I guess from that time to when I realized why it was maybe, a second or 2?? no more and a few seconds to get off the field. I was no more than 10 seconds from the impact to when I was off or just about off the field”

            BDLR “Okay and then….”

            racer “The team doctor and trainers sat me down and, well, we were winning like 38 to nothing I think at that point and the coaches were pulling us starters so I pulled my pads, shoulder pads and jersey off and they made me lean back with cotton packed in my nose and an ice pack”

            O’ Moron “Your honor… client was beaten far worse than this witness and he didn’t…….uh……that is…..never mind”

            Judge “I guess that’s not an objection then…..??”

            BDLR “Now, by the way, what was the final score?”

            racer “47 to 0 and it was an away game”

            BDLR “So after the game I assume you had an X – Ray done?”

            racer “Well the team doctor examined my nose very carefully and said it was not broken but the coach insisted I do for liability reasons and he needed to know if I would be cleared for the next game. The X – Ray was negative, that is it wasn’t broken”

            BDLR “You took a blow that caused all that bleeding and it wasn’t broken?”

            racer “Can’t hurt steel I guess”

            BDLR “What other treatment did you get?”

            racer “I had to wear this aluminum nose protector that was taped to my nose and forehead for about…..I guess 5 days. The worst part was the head coach made me wear a new style face mask so I had more than just the single bar I had. I guess that would be treatment of sorts”

            BDLR “So, the bottom line is, you took a single hit. for lack of a better term, not 25 or more savage punches to the nose, bleed like a stuck pig, as the saying goes, and HAD to get an X – Ray, and your nose wasn’t broken. AND the bleeding started so fast and in the heat of the moment, you didn’t turn to someone and ask “…hey, am I bleeding” yet there was so much blood the number on a white jersey was not even visible”

            racer “Yes sir”

            BDLR “Your witness counselor”

            O’ Moron “…..I can’t deal with this….no questions your honor”

            BDLR “I’d like to bring this picture of Fogenphoole’s jacket in as evidence your honor………which is in stark contrast to what a broken nose would cause to happen to it.”

            Knees, elbows, noses……and all kids stuff……….

            Note to FogenPhoole et al……..better dream up a better tale next time.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer~ Well, that was because it was 90 degrees out. In colder winter weather, the blood flows much slower. (as if it was all that “cold in Florida that night, but anyway, that would be MOM’s reply right there)

          • racerrodig says:

            That is true but it was 62 or so that night on 2/26/2012 which may be cool for FL but not cold by any stretch. To ague O’ Moron I’ve seen many bleeding injuries in the cold and they bleed pretty fast as well…….as will one from a car accident, a work accident and so on.

          • Yes. This is exactly what I am talking about. This is a true account of a real injury that actually happened, as opposed to whatever the latest version of that asinine Zimmerman story happens to be.

            I wanted people on that jury who had played any type of real sports, because these things happen, and nobody gets to kill anyone because of it. But, that was asking a bit much I suppose.

            So, we got a group of women who apparently received pedicures and outings while Florida picked up the tab.

          • racerrodig says:

            Here’s another witness testimony style true account….

            BDLR “Now Mr. racer, you’ve told us how you’ve torn your hands, elbows and knees up falling on concrete and how a real nose injury will look, have you ever had anything else that would be relative to this case?”

            racer “Funny you mention that, I’ve had a few concussions in my life, and I assume that’s what you are talking about?”

            BDLR “Your reading my mind”

            O’ Moron “Objection your honor, they’re talking like they’re pals or something”

            Judge “Problem with people being friends?? De – nied”

            racer “Well, I can say that back when I played football which was in high school and on a semi pro team, I’d get tackled and hit the ground kind of hard or there would be helmet to helmet contact and I’d get a concussion”

            BDLR “Okay, but when you hit the ground, your helmet was on?”

            racer “Yep, can’t play without one”

            BDLR “And needless to say, it was padded”

            racer “Yes, in fact we were one of the first schools to have the adjustable padding where you could tailor the inside to get the best fit.”

            BDLR “So even with what would be state of the art head gear at that time, you got a concussion, is that correct?

            racer “Yes sir”

            BDLR “Were you tested for concussion symptoms?”

            racer “Sometimes. If you really took or gave a real big hit, the team doctor would check you, but during a game he might just ask if you knew who the President was. Sometimes a player would be knocked out for a second or up to minutes”

            BDLR “So you’re saying that one blow to the head, wearing an approved helmet and with no concrete weapon involved, you guys could be rendered unconscious?”

            racer “Sad as that is to say, yes………..and I’ll say I can’t imagine what getting your head hit with concrete would do”

            Yep……kids know all about this stuff.

          • Reading about real injuries makes me reflect on what a pathetic whining coward Zimmerman is: “Um, there’s a guy out here, looks real suspicious, um, he’s taking the trash out? And it’s Tuesday? And, it’s like, raining, whaaa haaa whaaaahhh, and um, I think he’s wearing pajamas. He looks black…”


          • racerrodig says:

            You got it (homie) One of the calls he made with SheLie whining in the background he states there have been break ins and yet there was 1 of record and that guy was in jail at the time. Seems SuperSleuth forgot that detail anyway, they start describing what the “suspect” looks like and is wearing yet he had never been observed anywhere committing any crime. Then they go on to tell the police he’s wearing a pink T shirt in one call……and nobody was ever seen dressed like that but Fogen & SheLie….????

            Need I go on……next up Michael Dunn…….and why I was able to unload 5 rounds into an SUV and then 4 more while they were backing up…………and why they never returned fire with the gun I swear they had…….Sounds like Fogen “….I feel he saw my weapon…”

            Yep, those thugs as he called them, never returned fire. In one part of his interview he actually said he “..returned fire…” Ppppffffffftttt !

            I’m pretty sure if they were thugs and had a shot gun he wouldn’t have reached into his glove compartment, racked a round and opened fire…….naaaaaaaaaa the tire tracks would still be there, not to mention all the buck shot in his car.

            Then the detective told him there was no weapon found. Dunn counters with well, it might have been a stick…..did you find one of those ????

            Dunn had bail denied again on Wed…..or Tue.

          • Thank God bail was denied. He is dangerous.

            But yeah, interesting to note that Zimmerman never ‘picks on somebody his own size.’ Or a marksman who carries a gun and doesn’t play, he’d likely get an answer that goes like this:

          • racerrodig says:

            Imagine Osterman as an air marshal thinking he’s all of that. My bad, he’s not an air marshal…..he’s lying. My sons godfather who is a retired Federal Agent trains them in AC. I can tell you we had that conversation last year and there is no record of him being an air marshal and if he was one, he’d have been fired the second he said “I’m his token white friend ……..and I’m an air marshal”

            Not to mention he’d never have gotten the job with his financial issues and having been fired from the SPD for corruption.

          • I am not surprised at all. But very interesting, nonetheless. Another piece of the puzzle, thanks.

          • Thank God bail was denied. He is dangerous.

            But yeah, interesting to note that Zimmerman never ‘picks on somebody his own size.’ Or a marksman who carries a gun and doesn’t play, he’d likely get an answer that goes like this:

          • groans says:

            Yes. There are such things as real injuries … and then there were CAC’s “injuries.” I remember getting little cuts and scratches like his on an average day of playing when I was an 8- to 10-year-old GIRL!!

            CAC had no “injuries”! He had little cuts and scratches. And he wasn’t in danger of incurring any real injuries on 2/26/12, either, because Trayvon only wanted to GET AWAY from that creepy ass cracka.

            CAC used his gun because he didn’t want Trayvon to get away. Period. Yet that ignorant, prejudiced juror B37 BLAMES TRAYVON! For what? For NOT getting away! 😯

          • The Martins have demonstrated a great deal more grace than I would have, had it been my son. If B37 is a mother, I have no idea at all where she is coming from. Lack of any sort of empathy at all, I suppose.

            She’ll create her own hell, I have a feeling.

          • The Martins have demonstrated a great deal more grace than I would have, had it been my son. If B37 is a mother, I have no idea at all where she is coming from. Lack of any sort of empathy at all, I suppose.

            She’ll create her own hell, I have a feeling.

          • ROFLMFAO. You owe me a can of Windex.

            Damn, that’s good, you need to write!

            I’ll just add this: the entire jury is composed of soccer players. People who carry spare ACL braces in the trunks of their cars, and who sport hardware in various and sundry parts of their body. Or else, in a world that made sense, the jury would be composed entirely of 8-year-olds. They could figure things out way better than that pedicured mess.

          • racerrodig says:

            I’ll send the Windex…..No Problem.

  55. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    July 17, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    Professor, please check you email when you have a moment. Thank you


    EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    July 18, 2013 at 12:00 am

    To clear my name. Here are the original people that posted the “doxing.” comment. Please remove or label the original perpetrator of the posting as “doxing” to be fair. Many have accuse me of mislabeling the person as the juror; follow what the blogger verified as the juror. Please remove the posting including mine in its entirety. These bloggers are arrogant totally teachers pets.

    There is another one by WOW and the link is there to the photo. If you are going to label me as a “doxing” do it to everyone so it is fair. I never was the original poster; don’t have a Twitter account neither a Facebook account. Don’t trust them…

    My Forehead Tho says:

    July 15, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    Allegedly Juror B-37:

    [link removed: I do not permit doxing]


    sparger says:

    July 15, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    That didn’t take long.


    concernedczen says:

    July 15, 2013 at 11:50 pm

    what did it say?



    EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    July 18, 2013 at 12:38 am

    Woow! says:

    July 15, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    What happened to the picture of juror B37?


    Two sides to a story says:

    July 15, 2013 at 9:44 pm




    • I told you that I removed the link to the photograph because I do not permit doxing and I just removed it again from your comment and I will remove it from the source as well.

      There is nothing to discuss and if you bring this up again, I am going to delete the comment because it’s derailing discusssion.

      • Professor I was pointing out that you and everyone falsely accused me of being the original post. All of you falsely accused me. I did not post it originally and you should have allowed me to point that out. That was biased move on your part.

        It was MY FOREHEAD THO who posted it. Not me personally. You need to clarify that to others.

        • SearchingMind says:

          Everyone, your point is well made and well taken. No need for professor to clarify. I always cherish what you have to say and apologize on behalf of others for the injustice you feel. I hope this settles the matter.

          • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

            Thank you for recognizing the truth. I rarely ask anything of the Professor but when right is right and wrong is wrong stand up appropriately for everyone not just the ones who think they are favored.

            Searching mind – thank you and case closed…

            ipad excuse me for typos..

        • Beverly says:

          You have made your point, endlessly. Let it go.

  56. commenting says:

    You look down for your cell when a suspect who look like he is on drugs is walking towards u…he sucker punches you……….the prosecution was a joke…the trial was a show

    • Malisha says:

      Exactly. “I got out of the vehicle to go get “attacked” so I could kill me a n****r” was more likely the story.

  57. MDH says:


    Zimmerman is a sociopath.

    Click on the link and most, if not all, the criteria fit him.

    • MDH says:

      From the linked article.

      Profile of the Sociopath

      This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

      •Glibness and Superficial Charm

      •Manipulative and Conning
      They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

      •Grandiose Sense of Self
      Feels entitled to certain things as “their right.”

      •Pathological Lying
      Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

      •Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
      A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

      •Shallow Emotions
      When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

      •Incapacity for Love

      •Need for Stimulation
      Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

      •Callousness/Lack of Empathy
      Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others’ feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

      •Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
      Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

      •Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
      Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet “gets by” by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

      Not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

      •Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
      Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

      •Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
      Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

      •Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
      Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

      • Beverly says:

        He has no superficial or other charm; he slept thru a large part of the trial. Im not sure he has enough smarts to be a successful sociopath, however, he does meet many of the criteria. Thanks.

        • commenting says:

          The Arabic guy from his eok who comlained that he was being harrased, he endured alot I would think, before filing a complain. I woukd think that a gown man would have to be just fed up before h files a complain of harrasment at his work, but then again I may be wrong. Howevrr the middleeasten guy said that gz is so convincing, he was actually doubting himself, he was probably thinking that he should not have filed the complain…gz had him belieing that he was the one with the problem…

          • Girlp says:

            Classic sociopath they are very manipulative.

          • Girlp says:

            I forgot, he manipulated his friends and family even from jail and don’t forget about his cousin (sexual abuse is control). Cheating on his fiance and probably Shellie. Kicking his ex-fiances dog, lack of remorse for Trayvon and his other victims (he’s alway’s right they were wrong). A false sense of authority, pathologiccal liar, he is impulsive (chasing after people) Trayvon is not the firs person he ever chased down by car, punishing his mother by cutting of her lights, feigning charm, meekness but becoming hostile. He sure does fit the description to me. What bothers me also is that this man was on meds during the trail and you could still some of this in the court room another thing he still has his license and his gun a man under the care of a Psychologist has a gun has killed before and is now moving around freely in society….scary.

          • deetruth says:

            Additionally, his cousin said he was very manipulative and lied/charmed his way out of situations.

            His ex-coworker, the bouncer said he was jeckyll/hyde, and loved having power.

        • MDH says:

          He was drugged during the trial.

          IMO, the charm is indicated by the way he has been able to talk himself out of past acts.

          His lack of education falls under history of behavioral and academic difficulties.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          There are many people with borderline personality issues and these folks are even harder to pinpoint. Fogen could well be one of these.

        • Malisha says:

          Oh he had glibness and superficial charm. Remember the little chit-chat with Singleton while he waited for Erwin to come and administer their faked-up VSA test? “Oh you’re so authoritative, oh you’re so great, oh you’re such a good officer, oh you’re the best, oh I wrote to Chief Lee about how terrific you are, oh I told him you went above and beyond, oh my wife’s a mess…”

          Pass the anti-nausea meds please.

      • Girlp says:

        I think he fits most of this but might have other mental health problems as well. He is fixated on young black males.

      • abbyj1 says:

        MDH, I’ve maintained this from the beginning, that GZ is a psychopath. Of the list of diagnostic markers you include, a person usually has to exhibit THREE OR MORE of the following, not ALL. Of the FIFTEEN you have listed, Zimmerman exhibits ALL of them. I can’t find one that is not, in some way, a part of his personality profile.

        The two most highly regarded experts in psychopathy and sociopathy are: Robert Hare (“Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us”) and Martha Stout (“The Sociopath Next Door).

        The terms sociopath and psychopath were differentiated by many professionals for a long period of time, the only distinction being that psychopaths exhibited far more violence in their panoply of behaviors.

        Now, many experts refer to both terms interchangeably. Their reasoning is that the personality profiles are identical, and that most sociopaths eventually lapse into violent behavior at some point. The DSM-IV Psychiatriac Diagnostic Manual now uses the term “Antisocial Personality Disorders” to encompass both disorders: psychopath and sociopath.

      • riisey007 says:

        Yep, his parents know it too and that is why they should have stayed off of t.v. They know their son is a mess but yet would rather lie on a kid then let him go to jail where he belongs. GOD forgive me but it should be one of them next. I wouldn’t mind if he beat the crap out of that brother and banged his head on the sidewalk. One thing for sure is that he will strike again. O’mara knows Zimmerman is a Sociopath but he wanted to gain clientele from representing him and that is why he did not put that nut on the stand. Let’s just sit back and wait, we shall see him again.

        • believeinkarma says:

          Why didn’t they do psych evaluation like in other murder cases? Why didn’t prosecutor ask & judge order it?

          Floriduh is so corrupt. They use the racist lingo of Lee Atwater. Those people, criminally profiled, their environment & education, etc.

          They think if they say it isn’t about race then it can’t be. It could have been any race that night? SMDH. Then why did fogen call onl

        • Malisha says:

          Neither parent would have any trouble fitting into that diagnostic description of sociopath/psychopath, either, by the way.

    • MDH says:

      When I lived in Detroit, street survival required recognizing sociopaths.

      I have seen my share of them.

      GZ sets off alarm bells.

  58. Tee says:

    I was reafinh articles this morning about shopping her book around, the video she put together and how they as jurors based their decision on his SYG. This woman called Trayvon a boy of color and said that he causef his own death by wanting to show that he was tough and that he attacked GZ. Her words sound awfully familiar to me, she had an agenda going in and something should be done about her, how in the hell could they have used SYG to make their decision? THIS REALLY BURNS ME UP!

    • Girlp says:

      She was planted

      • She needs to be re-planted then. In Hell. What a lying bitch. I remember watching voir dire, and seeing that one guy who had donated to Zimmerman and was a supporter. He was honest about it, and he said as much. I appreciate that man for his honesty with it. At least he did that much, unlike B-37.

    • believeinkarma says:

      B37 recent comment made it seem like she had book deal done before or during trial. Definitely a plant for the defense.

      • jm says:

        B37 sure was an apologist for Zimmerman if not a stealth juror. She talked too much, just like Zimmerman. She made excuses for him. She ASSumed too much. Something is way off about her. Still waiting to hear from the juror who caved and why she decided to vote with the group at the last minute.

  59. commenting says:

    Bernie should not have objected to the animation during the trial,,he should have allowed it and then rip it apart.but then again the prosecution did not even bother to analyse the entire physical altercation…they should have gone through it bit by bit and showed how gz’s testimony of the physcal altercation is beyond rediculous

  60. I am going to begin posting my incarceration account here. I am the only person in the US, I believe, who has been convicted of, among other things, a DUI with no bad driving, and no drugs or alcohol in my blood,

    My story is a nonfiction Kafka, ‘The Trial.’

    • Tee says:

      I read your story and couldn’t understand how this was possible. Why is this justice system so unfair it seems a person must have a boat load of money to even hope to recieve justice. I read a similar case about a hispanic man in Arizona. Damn unjust justice system.

    • Malisha says:

      Oh I believe every word of it.
      You can be convicted with no evidence; you can be convicted with no evidence and no CHARGES. I believe every word.

      • The seven reasons for wrongful conviction, as you know, being a lawyer, or paralegal, are well documented and published. Mine involved several of the seven.

        What I want to see, is something similar for wrongful acquittals.

        Our system is broken, I think, because it is profitable to lock up the poor and the mentally ill…people without clout.

        Both wrongful convictions and wrongful acquittals lead to more crime, often violent.

        I would think that the reasons for wrongful acquittals are similar, but we can add to that this business of lying (or stealth) jurors and jury problems.

        My trial public defender, Chris McNeill, is dirty, turns out. I found in his case file, among other interesting things, the personal cell and home phone numbers, for four jurors, and I found out that he was talking to jurors about my case, in his church. He also lied to the trial judge and lied to my Frankfort appeal attorney about several things.

        The whole case was an Orwellian fraud, not at all unlike Kafka’s ‘The Trial.’

        I may be the first person ev er to do this, and it will take some time, but I am going to upload the entire thing to the internet. That is why I say there are courts, which are as worthless as a screen door on a submarine, and then there is the Court of Public Opinion, which is closer to the truth.

        Consider Kerry Maxx Cook, a convicted murderer, who was exonerated by DNA after spending 21 years on death row in Texas. He still lives in limbo, with a bogus conviction on his record. But, he didn’t commit any crime and everybody knows it.

        Zimmerman committed yet another crime and everybody knows that. Thing is, who else will he hurt/kill/rip off/finger bang next time? That’s the problem.

      • riisey007 says:

        Dear Lord??!!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Your experience leaves me speechless – it is very Kafkaesque.

    • Girlp says:

      OMG, unbelievable. I have a friend who was set-up as well but as bad as things were for her I see your expierence was worse.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Regret your cylce boo-boo, clearly you’ve been through worse. I look forward to your postings.

  61. Deborah Moore says:

    Good Morning, Fred and Rachel.
    Glad to see your fonts, Rachel. (May I kiss your boo boo? Air kiss only, I promise.
    And, Fred, an open thread is perfect for now. It seems like folks are still needing to vent. So, I think I’ll do some research today.
    Can someone remind me the name of the Defendant that John Guy will be prosecuting soon? Thanks.
    And, PS, I finally got through to WhiteHouse.Gov and signed the petition you pointed us to several threads ago.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Okay, I looked it up: Jordan Davis…Unfinished Business.

    • He will be prosecuting that freak show Michael Dunn, and Fred will be covering that one as well. I suppose we’ll get to see how far off the rails things really are, in Florida, which now strikes me as being like a collection of several states. I am in learning mode, having had very little experience with Florida, but it seems to have very very stiff sentences and a ‘tough on crime’ attitude…for some people, some of the time.

      Kind of like our state. So: The United States of Florida and Western Kentucky.

      Far as I can tell, nobody admits to voting for the governor, in Florida either.

  62. Allison says:

    I know that I am going to sound like a nut or a conspiracy theorist but I am going to speak of something that has bothered me since the beginning of this murder. I have wondered since the beginning how many other black kids that Fogen has murdered in the past. How many unsolved murders are sitting unsolved? Here are my reasons for wondering this…
    1. He was totally calm, he registered a 15 on the scale according to the EMT report. Any one of us that had just been through what he was claiming happened and what we know to have happened would of been hysterical or at least have an elevated blood pressure something. The calmness has always bothered me and the way he said just call my wife and tell her I shot someone, the witness even testified as to George saying it very calmly.

    2. On Dr. Phil Osterman who claims to be Georges best friend said George shot someone else. I watched the interview over and over and that was a total slip and I believe that is why Osterman stayed so close to George, maybe he helped George get away with it….Just a conspiracy theory on my part.

    3. How many times has the SPD covered up for him when there were no witnesses? George seemed pretty confident through out that he would be going home. SPD did not follow any protocol that they would have followed on a stranger. Allowing him to wash up, no toxicology etc. The little bit they did do seemed to be for show and we know that Serino and Singleton were both willing to lie under oath about what took place that night.

    4.His jailhouse phone calls to his wife, when she is talking about when all of this is over we will have a good life. There seemed to be no fear of Fogen going away.

    Anyway I have a strong feeling that Fogen has killed before and that others know about it. Conspiracy Theory maybe but it does seem plausible and possibly likely. I just needed to put this down and get it out of my head.

    • Endless Summer says:

      I don’t think you are crazy. I suspect if we could investigate his childhood we’d find several of his neighbor’s pets went missing.

      I wish there could be an investigation into cold cases wherever he has lived.

      He is a violent person with a violent history. He always gets away with it. He will commit another violent act before too long.

      • Rachael says:

        we have not seen the last of GZ I assure you that and like someone mentioned above, the jurors and the defense ppl will have only themselves to blame when we do. They could have prevented a next time. I sure hope they or theirs are not the next time. and since GZ is not a racist (pfffttttt yeah right) it could be one of them or theirs next.

        • riisey007 says:

          Yep, Zimmerman is mental! His family knows it and they have been bailing him out of trouble for a long time at least from 2005. He is a loser and his wife is a loser as well. Zimmerman may have all those accomplished people in his family but he most certainly is not one. The Zimmerman clan will get what is coming to them for all of their misdeeds and covering upor him that they have done. He is a psychopath and he will strick again. He has no emotion and he even til this day has no regrets because he will never feel he has done anything wrong. Why was he seeing a psychiatrist? Why is he on Adderall? We assumed he is ADHD but where was that written because I never read that anywhere. Adderall can be written for aggression, and we know that it is used sparingly as last ditch. We do know the psychiatrist wrote the script though. Was Zimmerman seeing the psychiatrist as part of a plea deal from something sealed as a teenager? I do not buy the ADHD story, even though it was only spoken once and that was because of the lieing over the re creation of events as told through his liar eyes. No I do not believe ADHD makes him like this but there is something else wrong with Zimmerman and his family is covering. He most likely should have never been able to get a gun license.

          • Malisha says:

            ADHD is often the addict’s excuse. I have seen cocaine addicts blaming their conduct on ADHD. It’s very popular with the wealthy addicts or those who have LE connections so they can “just say anything” and get away with it. Oh and I know of a federal magistrate whose son was a big cocaine distributor and when he ended up in court, he got some kind of weird diversion program instead of a plea — NO PLEA AT ALL — and he went to a high class rehab place for 60 days and even the arrest was erased.

          • groans says:

            @ riisey007 – We’ve discussed in the past about his CCW permit vs. gun ownership. IIRC, we figured Shellie bought the gun, because, in Florida, buying a gun from a store requires a background check that includes mental health history. So he didn’t buy the gun. On the other hand, the background check to get a CCW permit does not include the mental health background check. And CAC applied for, and apparently got, that permit.

        • Girlp says:

          Rachael, I feel that we will see him again as well at the same time praying that somehow it won’t happen. He has no remorse, very pround of his Hanniety interview, all the evidence released including jailhouse calls reveal he is a very sick person. George is fixated on AA males even reporting on a child as young as 7 or years old, following AA males and questioning their right to be where they are he will do this again. And yes we have no idea what daddyz has covered up for him in the past. BTW everything daddyz has done in VA as related to AA’s should be reviewed he has revealed himself to be a rabid racist.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Allison, the theory that he’s shot someone (and maybe killed) before seems to be a stretch … yet after what’s happened thus far, nothing would surprise me.

      I do know this: When a dufus like Fogen keeps getting a way with fast ones, there’s no inclination to stop. Sooner or later, he’s going to get nailed on something big, or at least big enough to send him to a Big House somewhere for a long, long time.

      While the charge itself was aggressive, Angela Corey’s office did not seem to go for the jugular in dealing with witnesses like Serino or Singleton, the neighbors, or those who weren’t even called.

      Does the State know what the Feds know, which may be a lot more than we know? And has it been decided that it’s best for the Feds to descend, casting a wider net on this tragedy?

      Despite the sickening feeling of last Sunday morning, I remain hopeful.

      We must not give up in seeking Justice for Trayvon.

      • pat deadder says:

        When Serino was on the stand and answered omara that he believed fogan why didn’t BDLR ask him why he made up papers to charge him with 2nd degree murder.I do not understand this trial at all.

        • Malisha says:

          That was called lying.
          BDLR was lying about wanting to get the evidence out. He wanted to “keep the evidence covered” instead.

      • racerrodig says:

        “Does the State know what the Feds know, which may be a lot more than we know?”

        Yes, they do. When the FBI allegedly said Fogen is not a racist, that’s not what they said. The said they don’t have enough to prosecute and guarantee a conviction. It’s O’ Mara and the Zidiot Nation that spun that into “…see, he’s not a racist”

        Right……….and the KKK just organizes “Toys for Tots” at Christmas.

    • You are not alone. So if I am wearing a tin foil hat, so be it. He had the calm demeanor of one who is entirely comfortable.

      • racerrodig says:

        I know for fact that there are unsolved shootings of black males where he lived in VA. Coincidence ?? maybe, maybe not.

        So when Sondra Osterphoole said SheLie called and said “….George shot someone else…” you can take it to the bank the word “else” was the truth.

        Either this meant “…he now has more than one kill…” or “…he shot the wrong guy…” “…someone else…” as in “I was trying to shoot Skinny Joey, by shot Crazy Charlie instead……hey, I’m a bad shot, what can I say…….fuget about it” (shoulder shrug)

        Nothing would surprise me with him.

        • For real? Where does that stuff happen? Funny, how much crime is around, precicely where George Zimmerman lives/lived, and awfully coincidental how burglaries and things seem to stop when he moves/is arrested.

          If they were to connect him to the unsolved shootings, he would qualify as a serial killer. It is beyond odd that his vital signs were all within normal limits minutes after the killing, the shot was extremely precise, as he demonstrated himself, and he pointedly verbalized no regrets whatsoever.

    • Girlp says:

      I won’t say George has never shot or even killed someone else he fits the profile of a sociopath and the ones that kill often have a connection to many unsolved murders and his father seems to step in whenever George comes close to being looked at by law enforcement. However, I believe the person he intended to shoot was the burglar that was reported by the construction guys. I don’t know if the burglar was out on bale or not but I believe George assumed Trayvon was that guy…I will never say George does not have other victims alive or deceased. Another strange thing is George was sent ahead of his parents at age 18 to Florida to live in the house they purchased, why? Also, he seems to brag about others taking the blame for crimes he has committed….we just don’t know at least at this point.

  63. commenting says:

    Question…some commenters on here keep saying that gz’s past could not be brought up….when a witness stated over and over again on the stand that gz was nonconfrontational…..wasn’t that an opportunity to call upon a witness to prove that he was indred confrontationan.or severel witnesses infact? ..y didn’t Bernie depose some of those witnessrs jusy in case thr opportunity came up where their testimony would be heard

    • commenting says:

      Indeed confrontational

    • chills101 says:

      Because he was going to walk regardless. If it was up to us he would have got life. The people that had control decided he was within his right to murder that kid. Thats why we must join forces to fight the powers that oppress us. UNITY is our cure. Just my thoughts….

  64. Marsha says:

    Good morning!

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