Prosecute Zimmerman for committing a federal hate crime

Tuesday, July 16, 2013

I hope the United States Department of Justice prosecutes GZ for violating the federal hate crime statute.

18 USC 249 provides in pertinent part:

Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, a dangerous weapon, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person—

(B) shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined in accordance with this title, or both, if—

(i) death results from the offense.

Please note that the Double Jeopardy Clause does not prohibit a federal prosecution against GZ. The Double Jeopardy Clause only prohibits a prosecution by the same sovereign entity that prosecuted him. That is the State of Florida. The United States is a different sovereign.

I think the problem with the verdict in this case was the de-emphasis on race and the presence of stealth jurors on the jury who were influenced by O’Mara’s year-long campaign, aided and abetted by the media, to acquit his client in the court of public opinion.

I believe B-37, and possibly two others, lied their way onto that jury determined to vote NG, regardless of the evidence. If I’m right, they should be prosecuted for perjury.

Whatever the reason or reasons, the State of Florida failed to git ‘r done and an unrepentant racist child killer is free to kill again.


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750 Responses to Prosecute Zimmerman for committing a federal hate crime

  1. jm says:

    Juror changed her tune today. I believed she was stealth after listening to her put her thoughts into Gz’s mind.

  2. Puck says:

    Over 860 planning to attend the vigil for Trayvon here in Montreal tonight. I don’t know if Phillips Square can handle that many people — we might end up spilling into the street!

  3. ay2z says:

    Off case topic, but it’s all part of the bigger picture, sad shocking.
    Just when you thought the historic problem of the residential schools in Canada, couldn’t get worse, and when the politicians had finally decided to apologize to the survivors who still suffer from their expeirences today, this comes out.

    (there is an audio link, and link to the CBC radio show that aired the interview with the researcher who dug all of this up, on this page– interview runs 7+ minutes)

    I am pleases that we still have a national television and radio system that allows this type of exposure through investigation and reporting, not controlled by the big self-serving media spins. But we have had to fight for it during periods of cut-backs.

    What has happened with this case of the killing of Trayvon, has been controlled largely by media spin, and profiting from ‘pre-fab’ journalism. O’Mara just took advantage and it paid off. Maybe look what’s happening outsdie the big American media corps, and seek better options for fair, responsible and investigatory journalism at all levels. That aside, here’s the story and it could happen, and did happen, anywhere.

    “Hungry aboriginal people used in bureaucrats’ experiments
    Food historian published details of nutritional experiments that began in the 1940s”

    The Canadian Press Posted: Jul 16, 2013

    Government documents eventually revealed a long-standing, government-run experiment that came to span the entire country and involved at least 1,300 aboriginals, most of them children.

    Government documents eventually revealed a long-standing, government-run experiment that came to span the entire country and involved at least 1,300 aboriginals, most of them children.

    “This is a period of scientific uncertainty around nutrition,” said Mosby. “Vitamins and minerals had really only been discovered during the interwar period.

    “In the 1940s, there were a lot of questions about what are human requirements for vitamins. Malnourished aboriginal people became viewed as possible means of testing these theories.”

    “The research team was well aware that these vitamin supplements only addressed a small part of the problem,” Mosby writes. “The experiment seems to have been driven, at least in part, by the nutrition experts’ desire to test their theories on a ready-made ‘laboratory’ populated with already malnourished human experimental subjects.”

    The research spread. In 1947, plans were developed for research on about 1,000 hungry aboriginal children in six residential schools in Port Alberni, B.C., Kenora, Ont., Schubenacadie, N.S., and Lethbridge, Alta.

    One school deliberately held milk rations for two years to less than half the recommended amount to get a ‘baseline’ reading for when the allowance was increased. At another, children were divided into one group that received vitamin, iron and iodine supplements and one that didn’t.

    One school depressed levels of vitamin B1 to create another baseline before levels were boosted. A special enriched flour that couldn’t legally be sold elsewhere in Canada under food adulteration laws was used on children at another school.

    And, so that all the results could be properly measured, one school was allowed none of those supplements.

    Many dental services were withdrawn from participating schools during that time. Gum health was an important measuring tool for scientists and they didn’t want treatments on children’s teeth distorting results.
    “I assumed that somebody would have written about an experiment conducted on aboriginal people during this period, and kept being surprised when I found more details and the scale of it. I was really, really surprised.

    “It’s an emotionally difficult topic to study.”

    Not much was learned from those hungry little bodies. A few papers were published — “they were not very helpful,” Mosby said — and he couldn’t find evidence that the Norway House research program was completed.

    “They knew from the beginning that the real problem and the cause of malnutrition was underfunding. That was established before the studies even started and when the studies were completed that was still the problem.”

  4. dianetrotter says:

    I emailed Natalie Jackson to encourage investigation of B37’s influence in the deliberation room. Did she present herself as a legal authority interpreting the law because her husband is an attorney. She emphasized that they had to go by the law. There is a big story here.

    • ay2z says:

      Good for you. One juror, presumably the spokesperson, had things to say about the video evidence (Serion) presented by th estate, and suggested something like “in the future….” as directions to the court, when JN stopped the juror to tell her that the eveidence would go back with them during deliveration.

      This juror may have felt empowered to speak for others on her own, to instruct and decide, for the others. That is not her role, she had no more voting power, no more importance in the vote, and no juror apparently has the right, even ‘leader’, to tell others what to think or decide for themselves.

      Maybe she was controlling and influential over others, as to how to think.

      • dianetrotter says:

        I believe that from my heart. I worked with a narcissist racist for 8 years. When I first complained about specific racist statements she made about Mexicans and AAs and how she tried to bad mouth me to my students, I was told “We can’t get between the problems with you two ladies.” I dropped it and she revealed herself to everyone. within a year everyone knew about her. They just transferred her a month ago.

  5. dianetrotter says:

    I just wrote Natalie Jackson an email. I told her they should investigate B37 to see if she exerted undue influence on the other jurors by implying that she knows more about the law because her husband’s an attorney. Notice how she emphasized they had to go by the law.

    • dianetrotter says:

      Now I see what people mean about post being out of order. I reposted because I didn’t see my original post. Sorry guys!

  6. roderick2012 says:

    I take it that some Zimbot has hacked this site.

  7. colin black says:



  8. ay2z says:

    “I think George got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn’t have been there, but Trayvon decided that he wasn’t going to let him scare him and get the one-over, up on him or something,” she said. “I think Trayvon got mad and attacked him. ”

    By not walking away from the confrontation, the juror said of Martin, “I believe he played a huge role in his death.”

    Simple. They blieved fogen without having him submit his ‘truth’ story to cross-exam. They believed him over any possibility of believing the younger, Martin who was clearly headed home, and by admission of fogen, never knew who this person in the dark, in his vehicle, was following him. How would Martin know he got out of his car if he were not at the T?

    They had their minds made up, and allowed only one of the two, to have the right to presumption of innocence, and only one to have the right of self-defense. No evidence that Trayvon did anything to fogen, none. Only one person’s word and he never spoke in court, even when he was claiming SYG, which came up at trial.

  9. Drew says:

    White athletes who slam their bat and jog out a pop fly in anger = competitive, spirited, gritty.

    Blacks = lazy, entitled, angry

  10. KateW says:

    Does anyone think signing the petition for pardoning Marissa Alexander will help her? Someone is asking me and I wanted to run it by all of you.

  11. ava says:

    The prosecution , especially Bernie, failed big time, if the prosecution had at least made an effort, it would have ended in a hung jury, and the next time around , more biased individuals would lie their way unto the jury to ensure that a not guilty verdict is reached, I will explain in another post how the prosecution diliberately threw the case

  12. KateW says:

    They won’t prosecute the SPD. That is just as much a pipe dream as those saying the DOJ will prosecute this killer. The SPD has already taken the stand and said “Ah we believed he was telling the truth”. Were there missteps on their part? Sure. And those missteps were not following proper protocol and procedure. Will the DOJ get involved in that? Nope because it is a housecleaning issue and the SPD will say we cleaned house by reviewing our policy and procedures, demoting Serino and instilling a new police chief. Serino can’t be prosecuted for that because they have already “reprimanded” him for this and they can’t prosecute for “believing” someone was telling the truth.

    This, like everything else surrounding this case is a great atrocity on the people of this country. I know there are many like Martin that have been or are victims of crime but this case would have made it at least one person who got justice. I suppose that couldnt happen either.

  13. Tee says:

    100% of GZ calls about suspicious person was about blacks, this shows that the only people he deemed suspicious were black. I heard the nen call he made about a suspicious lookinv 9 yr old boy, I don’t for the life of me know why Bernie fought to get the tapes in but didn’t use them. When you see a 9yr old as someone up to something simething is wrong with the lense you’re looking out of.

  14. crazy1946 says:

    It would seem that when a blog post gets this long word press goes nuts and puts the responses where ever it wants, regardless of context…..

  15. Drew says:

    “*shrug* why are people protesting?”

    God I think I hate the phony, colorblind, moderate, head-in-sand types more than the Zimm family.

    At least the Zimm’s make racist tweets, causing them to be easily identified.

    The apathetic and indifferent color-blindness peddlers are just out there among us, potential jurors, potential faux-liberal friends. Scary!

    • cielo62 says:

      People probably believe that they are not racists because they would never in a million years use the N word or any nasty word for another group of people. AND YET they are willing to believe all that fucking bullshit about Trayvon! WHY?? Because they are racists and don’t even know it. And THAT is the saddest part of all.


  16. Leisa says:

    Following quietly, much to catch up on… Lovely to be home in my own bed with nothing hooked up if only for a little while…. I’ve missed you all……

  17. Drew says:

    When blacks like mma, they’re training to beat and rape all whites in the Kenyan Marxist revopocalypse.

    When gz trains in mma, he’s a great man preparing for his neighborhood watch career.

  18. Drew says:

    The media really dropped the ball by promoting the whole BLACK THUG angle. I mean I can’t comprehend any other reason my friends are even entertaining that dreck.

    When they weren’t pushing that angle, they were peddling the weak journalism of false equivalence, of he said-she said, right-left, binary, uncritical, middle-of-the-road, kindergarten style arguments.

    “Well, GZ’s side says this and the OTHER side says that didnt happen! *shrug* I guess we will never know! God forbid we analyze the evidence or lack thereof! If GZ’s saying he was beaten nearly to death, then by golly, we have to listen! Even though he had no injuries and was walking around afterward!”

    Friends also object to the “race card”.

    “Why did the prosecution try to make gz out to be a murderous klansman? It turned the jurors off, probably”

    Projecting much, bro?

    He *was* murderous. And to shoot a kid, then desecrate his memory by concocting a BLACK THUG BEAT ME DOWN lie *is* kinda klansman-y.

    My friends also get REALLY MAD if I criticize the BLACK THUG lie. They don’t like when I use it – too racial sounding I guess. Maybe they prefer Omara and west and gz and his brother use it (racist as opposed to racial, less to think about).

    Plus, I argue that the prosecution in no way used race to any good or bad effect at all. They tiptoed around an essential part of this murder (black thug was out thieving), and the crown jewel of the defense (black thug was besting me, so I had to shoot).

    Speaking of klansmen, anyone remember what happened in American History X?

    • aussie says:

      Sadly, Drew, it sounds like you need to get new friends.

      But you’ll be doing the whole world a huge favour if you’ll stick with these and somehow convert them to seeing things as they are…. it is probably not their fault they are racist and don’t even know it. If they can come to see it, they can start to rip it out of themselves.

      Don’t criticise the Black Thug lie. Just ask them to explain to you how he was a black thug. With actual evidence.

  19. MDH says:

    I know this is just playing Wikipedia lawyer on my part, but there appears to be a case:

    Hate Crime:

    “Hate crime” generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).[3]


    Racial harassment[edit]

    Main article: Racial harassment

    The targeting of an individual because of their race or ethnicity. The harassment may include words, deeds, and actions that are specifically designed to make the target feel degraded due to their race or ethnicity.

    GZ was constantly targeting black males as suspects without probable cause, thus, IMO, meeting words, deeds and actions designed to make the target feel degraded due to their race or ethnicity.

    In fact, the Sanford PD is culpable in that they knew about his behavior, yet did not put a stop to it.

    Think about this from the race neutral point of view in an idealized Whitetopia.

    If Frank was constantly falsely accusing people in the neighborhood about crimes that they did not commit, then, dollars to doughnuts, the community would have complained about it to the PD. The PD would have told this harasser to stop.

  20. Drew says:

    I told a friend, “this whole thing makes me ill”

    He goes, “yeah both sides are so racist. Why is everyone protesting? Everyone is trying to capitalize on this. Sick eh”

    Me: “yeah, sick… Erm. Yeah”

  21. Sophia33 says:

    Free Marissa Alexander petition on

  22. Malisha says:

    I believe Fogen’s probably going to get himself killed. The strange part is that it seems to me he will NOT be killed by a Black man. I’m thinking something quite different will happen to him and it will result from his conduct that is (in his mind) unrelated to racism. That will make the story both ironic and not even particularly newsworthy. Which won’t matter because it will probably take place after Fogen is gone from the headlines and is living an alcoholic life with an alcoholic wife (maybe even Shellie) somewhere in Florida. He needs to fear leaving Florida, of course.

    • Tee says:

      Last year it happened in Miami when a man gotfoff with using SYG after chasing behind a 15yr old who he thought stole his radio from his car. The boy swung the radio filled bag when the man approached him with the knife and he stabbed the boy to death, took the radios and sold all of them. Less than a year later he was shot to death on his way to work, got himself caught up in a middle of a gang shoot out. Karma!

    • cielo62 says:

      No doubt that loud mouth sociopath will get himself killed. He thinks he is untouchable.  Can’t say as I would shed a tear when he does.


  23. Tee says:

    You were right professor from the beginning, you had fear that this would happen with one or more of the jurors. Indeed juror 37 was the one, who know how many others there were. I listened to her interview on hln, and was floored. She let her true colors show even behind that black out screen. Its funny how people don’t realize that God is vengeful. This is why us African-American don’t have faith in the justice system. There is no justice for us.

  24. Malisha says:

    An interesting thing that B-37 said:

    She thinks Fogen’s heart was in the right place;
    She thinks Trayvon probably threw the “first punch”;

    WHere Fogen’s heart was has nothing to do with the crime. Just as prior bad acts cannot come in, also the nice or mean personality of the killer is irrelevant. But about Trayvon throwing the first punch, my only real question is: WHEN?

    Uncontroverted testimony says:

    Fogen claimed he fell at first punch, after which there was mount, beat-down, shot fired. THAT’S IT.

    So it would be:


    No horizontal travel (you may add a few seconds of “I think I stumbled [tiger paw swipes] and I was trying to push him off me”

    But no running, no flailing arms, no two of them shouting and covering ground.


    The alternate story is any one of many:
    Running with arms flailing;
    rolling around on the ground with shouting
    passing by three homes to end up for ten seconds near John Good
    Whatever was going on during “Jeremy, get in here”

    But basically, first punch would have been followed by quite a bit of activity and COVERING GROUND.

    So B-37’s “Trayvon probably threw the FIRST punch” is a complete fantasy. Oh wait a minute …


    About the whole MMA meme –

    Back at the first or second motions hearing when O’Mara was arguing to get all of Trayvon’s records, regardless of how irrelevant they were, we heard him say that there was evidence on the Internet (waving a piece of paper) that Trayvon was INTERESTED IN MMA fighting. So the pBa-lack thug’s INTERESTS were supposed to be evidence that he was not murdered? OK, but he was said to have this terrible, guilt-ridden, evil INTEREST in MMA fighting.

    THEN, just before trial (and why, indeed, not earlier, pray tell?) we learn that Fogen had not only an interest in it, he was training three times per week, three hours a day, at a gym. Suddenly it means NOTHING.

    If Trayvon showed an INTEREST, that was evidence against Trayvon. If Fogen actually trained and was a fight enthusiast, that only shows that he was a weak little incompetent pussy who couldln’t throw a punch.

    For this alone, O’Mara is guilty. HE pushed the meme of BAD BLACK MMA BULLY on a dead kid and he knew very well, as he did that, that it was a massive projection. Did he have to defend his client to the best of his ability? YES. Did he have to slander a dead kid and by proxy insult, degrade, and attempt to murder the “race” that dead kid belonged to? NO, HE did it for the worst possible reason: BECAUSE HE WANTED TO.

    O’Mara is no less racist and disgusting than WEST, even more so. O’Mara is living with a curse on him. The MMA fighter was the bully was the murderer was the liar was the f*cking punk and the bully-murderer-liar-fuckingpunk’s lawyer is — excuse my French — DREK.

    • MDH says:

      And the “progressive racists” at Daily Kos eat that up.

      MOM blew the dog whistles early and often in a society rife with racism that can not see the forest because of the trees.

      Turn on any professional sports program wherein there are white and black athletes.

      Invariable the stud white athlete will be called a heard worker and the black stud gifted or a genetic marvel.

      Then note how the “athletic” Trayvon meme was used to give credence to the lame argument that a 158lbs boy could easily put down and dominate a 207lbs man.

  25. Drew says:

    Seriously though what the f is going on?

    Even if you believe the defense’s Big Lie – GZ was ATTACKED! by a black thug! (btw did they continue to argue that his head was pounded 40 times, I missed the closing argument?) – I still don’t understand why that justifies shooting someone.

    I used to teach in an inner city school and have been in worse altercations, with bigger kids, who quite frankly were actually in gangs (aka thugz), and I never would have considered that shooting to kill in order to survive was a necessary choice. I mean, what a Pussy GZ is! If you believe his story, you believe that a large large man – WITH A GUN! – was screaming like a young teen instead of fighting back, or saying “get off me, I have a gun!” I mean if that voice was really GZ – “liberal” friends on mine: “we’ll just never know whose voice that was!” – getting BEATEN TO A BLOODY PULP, why is he just screaming like a freak and begging for his life. Id be saying, “someone call the cops, this young thin teen is somehow beating me!” Not “please, no!”

    I mean the fact that my friends buy into the Scaree Thug fabrication actually makes me sick. My wife wants me to let it go and I know that she’s just trying to help – she hates this verdict as much or more than I do – but I really don’t want to think nice thoughts about my twisted, stupid friends who shrug and say, “we’ll just never know what really happened!”

    • Yeah, I’m struggling with that too and worrying about the next time something like this happens.

      I’m also concerned about the failure of the judicial system.

    • MDH says:

      I made this same comment upstream, but feel it also applies here:

      That is the reality of the mind set of so many of the white people I come into contact with. A society that does not use reason can not deliver justice.

      The racism permeates our culture.

      In sports, the white athlete who is a star is deemed a hard worker and the black athlete gifted.

      Sadly, that stereotype was used against the “athletic: Trayvon to give truth to the lame argument that 158lbs teen can easily submit a 207lbs man.

  26. crazy1946 says:

    While many of us here, myself included consider this to be a racial hate crime, after doing some research, it does not appear to reach the threshold that would be necessary for the Fed’s to get involved. Now, please understand, that comment was directed at a hate case against the Fogdoit. There does seem to be however enough evidence to present a case against the SPD, but even that case might not make it to a grand jury, not due to lack of desire on the part of the Fed’s but instead on the lack of hard evidence of a conspiracy to commit the crime. The bottom line is simply that with the bulk of evidence being circumstantial will a jury return a verdict that would satisfy us? I realize that these words are from a non attorney and will probably be cast aside as being irrelevant, if that is the case then so be it, because they are based on my opinion after attempting to take a non biased look at the realities of what will take place now in this tragedy!

    • Girlp says:

      That’s my understanding as well, but maybe I am hoping maybe GZ said something to someone that it’s recorded on a text or email that indicates that one of the reasons he killed Trayvon was because he is AA…We can alread infer he has a problem with young AA’s through his phone calls to the PD, we already know he has the capacity to show hatered towards those who are not like him, Mexicans, the Middle Eastern guy. The way the law is written from what I understand GZ will have had to say he killed Trayvon because Trayvon is African American or that he wants to kill African American’s. I pray something is out there, Zimmerman learned from his experience with the Middle Easterner what not to say. GZ is slick.

  27. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Something to realize:

    During the Civil Rights Era the news corporations were more aggressive and had talented investigative reporters.

    This is not true today.

  28. MDH says:

    The jury fell for a lawyer trick. An argument does not have merit unless it is based in fact. Beyond GZ’s testimony, we have no facts about who started the fight.

    When weighing testimony, one must determine the reliability of the person giving the testimony as follows:

    Does the person giving the testimony have a vested interest in the outcome of the case?

    Does evidence of record show that the person giving testimony is not a reliable judge of facts?

    Does the evidence of record show that the person giving testimony is a liar?

    Only a fool would not see that GZ struck out. That said, anything he says should have had no value with respect to what actually happened. The only value what he said had was to establish he was a liar and not a reliable judge of facts.

    The not being a reliable judge of facts is established by his reasoning for going after T in the first place.

    A warped mind is not a reasonable mind.

    And therein lies the reason why GZ was found not guilty.

    IMO, the jury accepted or acquiesced to the paranoid delusional view that all black males are inherently violent thus any confrontation with one reasonably {in their minds} put one’s life in danger.

    That is the sad reality, in my opinion.

    • IMO, the jury accepted or acquiesced to the paranoid delusional view that all black males are inherently violent thus any confrontation with one reasonably {in their minds} put one’s life in danger.

      Yes, and they do not realize that view is proof of racial prejudice.

      • MDH says:

        That is the reality of the mind set of so many of the white people I come into contact with. A society that does not use reason can not deliver justice.

        The racism permeates our culture.

        In sports, the white athlete who is a star is deemed a hard worker and the black athlete gifted.

        Sadly, that stereotype was used against the “athletic: Trayvon to give truth to the lame argument that 158lbs teen can easily submit a 207lbs man.

    • Girlp says:

      I totally agree.

  29. shyloh says:

    Two questions. Will George move back to the retreat and is he still night watchman? I truly doubt if this will happen. But in the state of Florida who knows?

    • Dave says:

      With the killer’s credit history, he’ll have trouble finding a landlord who will rent to him let alone obtaining a mortgage. I doubt that he’d be welcome back to R@TL considering what he’s done to the neighborhood’s property values.

      • cielo62 says:

        Dave~ Not just his credit history but also his history of calling the cops on landlords who try to legitimately try to get their due rent! Nope I see him hiding out in a refurbished FEMA trailer getting food stamps, since he won’t be able to find a job, either.


  30. Tzar says:

    The Reasonable Fear of John Spooner

    • what is this? why did this guy shoot this kid?

      • Tzar says:

        he accuse the 13 year old boy who had just moved there 1 month prior with his mother of stealing his rifle
        the boy was at school when the burglary was reported to have taken place
        none the less he interrogated the boy at gun point and then shot him in the chest dead, when he became in fear or his life…

        • jodiwankanobi says:

          i looked it up on google. Un.fucking.believable. That poor kid. That poor mother. I hope the rest of his miserable days are spent in prison.

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      oh my God. FFS. I just can’t believe this. I just googled it. That poor mother, that poor 13 year old child. I hope they throw the book at that old prick!! it’s almost too much to bear.

  31. Jun says:

    To be honest, this proves my theory that the cops, some of them, have turned to a bunch of pussies

    It’s so obvious Fogen targeted black people to get them because he considered them all burglars or thugs or criminals

    It’s pretty clear a murder took place, nothing

    He attacked cops, nothing

    He beats up his ex, nothing

    He kicks his ex’s dog, nothing

    He lies and schemes money and passports, nothing

    I hope Eric Holder will do something but I am not too confident he will

    All I know is he will be bugged for the rest of his life about it and there’s prolly people who want to pop him and his brother, Taffe, Osterman

  32. nocamo33 says:

    We have the jury that can claim, we did the best we can and had to follow the law. Hands clean. We have the prosecutors wringing their hands saying we presented the case, the jurors decided. Somewhere in between those two players we have the truth. Buried with Trayvon.

  33. nocamo33 says:

    I posted my concerns here during the trial. (faux I am not mad at you). But, if you recall I was very worried about what I was seeing or not seeing. I was told to wait for closing. So sad. No one can tell me that this thing does not go to the top. “Conspiracies” are so far fetched that if I were on top, I engage in them all the time knowing that no one will ever believe they exist.

    1. Fogen’s dad is a 22 year Military Intelligence officer that spent 10 of those years at the Pentagon.
    2. How can this guy NOT be connected? Everyone made a big deal that he was a judge and connected to Wolfinger, believing that pointed to collusion on the part of the authorities – if that is possible/plausible, I find his connections to the “ultimate” symbol of power in this great nation even far more compelling.
    3. Is it possible that this guy had some pretty powerful friends at the top and that those friends would not let him down? Possible? Yeah. Likely, who really knows…
    4. Somehow, this thing stinks to high heaven and no one can put their fingers on the problem. We are all scratching our heads.
    – How did B37 make it on the jury?
    – Why did the PROS take it easy on this guy?
    – What connection if any did B37 have to key players in this case?
    – Was she really a clean slate coming in?
    – Why is it so hard to believe that, if Fogen’s dad is connected, they came through for him big time…?

    I have believed for a while now, it is not the CEO of the country that is our leader. It’s the henchmen that work for the people that put the CEO in office that lead this country. Who are they? Why are they obscured? How do they operate? Out front or behind the scenes? IF behind the scenes, what is there to hide? If hidden, and involved in the daily goings on of our country, is that the same as constitutional rule of law? Or, is it something else? If something else, what then?

    This didn’t happen by accident, meaning, we all (and many do) agree that something stinks to high heaven. No one knows what. What I posit is the only thing that makes sense to me, but I am open to being wrong. If not that, then what? It “feels” if this guy is protected all around. A giant moat around him. Some very powerful forces that share Fogen’s beliefs want to make sure he stays free. That is truly amazing to me. The fact that anyone could or would do that is more unbelievable to me than any conspiracy theory out there.

    We’ll see if we get a federal case out of this. The proof is in the pudding.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i am not remotely worried that you are mad at me, any more than i would be with you. i wrote a long post myself on the ‘what went wrong’ thread where i outlined a number of issues.

      if you have any reliable source regarding zim sr.’s former occupation, i would be happy to see it. to date, i have seen only blog postings.

      yes, there were many problems, from start to finish. i see them as well as anybody. did i try to maintain hope? yes, that is my nature.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I agree that the case stinks. But GZ and his father are just pawns, without any real power. RZ sr. may have had some influence at the early stages, when this case was not even a blip on the radar of national conciousness. I think that not much influence was needed at the early stages. Ingrained racist attitudes with local LE, was probably enough incentive, to help the guy who killed the black kid.

      I think the local powers, had committed themselves, to a certain narrative before the case started to blow up in their faces.

      This case has always been associated with the SYG laws. That is where it gets political. Most Americans weren’t even aware that these laws were being implemented at an amazing rate. It is Alec and the gun lobby, who wanted these laws implemented.

      There is your money and political influence.
      I think if it would’ve been political convenient to throw GZ’s ass in jail for the rest of his life, he would’ve been in jail by now.
      The people in power, like Rick Scott and Angela Corey, don’t give a damn about Trayvon or GZ. But they do care about their political careers and the financial contributions they need to run their campaigns.

      What I think they were protecting, was the SYG law, not GZ.
      One thing is clear, the prosecutors were either incompetent, or their major assignment in this case was not to get GZ found guilty, but to protect and cleans the damaged “reputation” of the SPD and the SYG law itself.

      Both a possible civil action or a federal action, would have different stakeholders with a different political interest.
      Holder has spoken out against the SYG laws, and Obama immediately following the verdict, made the connection to gun control. What ever their political agenda will be, it won’t be in support of the gun lobby.
      If they think prosecuting GZ on federal charges, will be a good show case against SYG and for gun control, I think they will prosecute.

      The civil case will be the only trial, which actually will be about what happened on Feb 26, 2012, between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.

      • nocamo33 says:

        Thank you for your comment. I appreciate it. This type of bias is so far outside my normal reference points that I have to believe something extraordinarily “different” or “unusual” is happening. Thanks for helping me reign in my thinking! Blessings to you and make this a great day!

  34. acemayo says:

    I look at an newspaper for a area while mostly white live
    And most of them was white men doing crime the news rarely report that.
    If crime happen in the an black area is all on the news
    My city put pictures of the men who was catch buying sex
    in an black area thinking it be all black men, most of them
    was white men they soon quit showing the pictures.
    Why would I want go to an Cat Church because all of
    the sex crimes by mostly white men on children
    So if some black do crime than they all do

  35. tharealkeisha says:

    The other 4 jurors have issued a statement excluding B29

  36. Jun says:

    I dont know what much can be done if the jury was tampered with

    The state should have known better and fought harder during jury selection

    It’s not like judge or jury tampering is anything new

    I have heard many stories of triad kingpins in Hong Kong doing just that to skate on charges

    In a way, Fogen created a gang of people for him

    • nocamo33 says:

      If juries can be tampered with, can prosecutors be also?

      • Jun says:

        Yes of course

        Back in the day, Triad Kingpins in Hong Kong, they’d have cops and prosecutors in their pockets

        Sometimes in the ghetto, the higher forces come knocking, like the British Colony, and they would complain about the crime

        When this occurred, the Triads would find patsies and fall guys, to take the fall for the crimes they did, and the cops and prosecutors in their pockets would then frame an innocent man, and the triads skate

        Because of law enforcement corruption in the ghetto, ICAC was created to stop corruption in the departments

        • nocamo33 says:

          We never associate that kind of corruption with America, though. It’s so hard for people to see it can and does happen here. It’s usually the privileged class that dismisses it, while the rest of the population suffers. I think of the movie Les Miserables, where some of the privileged class were willing to risk everything to step into the trenches with the poor and fight for their rights. That’s what we need (not a physical revolution – since that would NEVER succeed on US soil), but a political, economic and mental revolution. One in which people truly make the values and decrees of the Constitution a priority, not just when it is convenient for them.

  37. Woow! says:

    Will the DOJ prosecute? There is enough evidence to show CAC violated TM civil rights.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      If the DOJ will prosecute, they probably will prosecute for a criminal hate crime, not a civil rights violation.
      The Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Hate Crime Prevention Law, was signed by Obama in 2009. That law gives the Federal government a much broader jurisdiction to prosecute. The civil rights violation law, only allowed the federal government to prosecute, if the crime was committed while the victim was participating in one of 6 federally protected activities, such as voting. But in the Hate Crime Act, this section was added.

      Section 249(a)(1) was passed pursuant to Congress’s Thirteenth Amendment authority to eradicate badges and incidents of slavery. The government need prove no other “jurisdictional” element to obtain a conviction.

  38. Woow! says:

    I would love to be a fly on the wall when all the bigoted racist christians that hate blacks or any other race go before the Father and he refuse to allow them entry through pearly gates.

  39. Sophia33 says:

    Dennis Trainor:

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I am going to play this with its chart every day and pass on his talking points.

      That chart “Killed by Legislation” is so important when talking about this.

      Thanks for posting this, Sophia.

      What is need is steady, constant pressure…….a squeaky wheel that deafens legislators until they DO something about this.

      What is required now is people standing up unceasingly, getting all the proper ids for voting, and, I mean in the smallest to the largest voting days….not just president national….but every time a state voting day occurs.

      People must read and learn about each local news event and stay INFORMED on top of things.

    • nocamo33 says:

      In answer to the videobloggers last question: 2 hours. About the time it should have taken this jury to find Zimmerman guilty!

    • Tzar says:

      Video submitted at trial shows John Spooner shooting Darius Simmons

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        i just saw this below…fucking unbelievable. This poor mother. That poor child. What the fuck is wrong with the US, land of the free unless you are unarmed and are black.

  40. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I am bringing this down here because I don’t want anyone to miss reading about the conditions that edruminations describes in Central Florida:

    edruminations says:
    July 16, 2013 at 8:11 pm
    Also, there is now a climate of fear for all of us here in central FL…that anybody can devise a situation to support SYG for the lone surviving witness.

    People are afraid to speak out. Afraid to protest. Racists are looking for any excuse to evoke SYG. They have a racist law to protect them, set up by a racist state, enforced by racist police.

    None of us are safe. Any crazy, drunk lunatic can get away with this. Especially if he’s at all friendly with the local police.

  41. Sophia33 says:

    Do you all see the other jurors are trying to distance themselves from B37. They said she doesn’t speak for them.

  42. kllypyn says:

    It’;s too bad they can’t prosecute his parents for having the nerve to reproduce.

  43. Tzar says:

    good night folks

  44. Brandy says:

    Wonder if a few of the jurors are having regrets? Hope so! They can live with what they have done with this disturbing Verdict for the rest of their lives! Karma is a bitch!

  45. Brandy says:

    I am starting to get the feeling a few of the jurors are having regrets! Something is not right with this group of women, I can feel it

    • Leslie says:

      Brandy, probably so. Heck, if they didn’t really and I stress really didn’t know much about the killer beforehand. They have been on the internet now, so they know all about the killers past criminal history, beating up his ex..assaulting an undercover, child molestation and so on. But it’s a done deal…the only rectification for them now is to sign all the petitions going around. If that were to happen, well..oh the irony

  46. sadlyyes says:

    the thing that freaks me out the most,is that Tray was terrorized,scared to death by the freak,begged FOR HIS LIFE,its more than i can bear

  47. Woow! says:

    Ben Krubidos is suing Angela Core under a whistle blower statute.

    I don’t think he will be successful. He violated rules and compromised the state’s case. He should leave this alone.

  48. KateW says:

    There is now evidence that stealth jurors infiltrated the system and the jury and purposefully neglected their duty as jurors to fix the outcome of the trial. This is unlawful and a violation. This juror is saying there was a 5-1 hold out so how did Frank Taffe and the conservative treehouse get this information unless there was a mole or moles in the room. Astonishing violations!! No court should be fixed in such a manner! I CRY FOUL! FOUL! FOUL! FOUL!

  49. KateW says:

    4 other jurors are saying B37 doesnt speak for them lol

  50. Leslie says:

    Has anyone here heard of this shooting in Milwaukee? If anyone is from there im curious to know the about the coverage of it locally.

  51. KateW says:

    Did juror B37 SAY THERE WAS 1 HOLD OUT!! That goes back to what racist Frank Taffe and the CTH were saying about 5-1 with one holding out. So it is true!! Someone in that group was feeding his supporters information on what was going on inside the deliberation room! FOUL! I CRY FOUL AND DISHONORABLE!

  52. smokeegyrl says:

    Who are y’all? When you fall, don’t you get up… if you fall… don’t you get up again…. Sybrina and Tracy… they are going to keep fighting… they don’t think well… Eric Holder is not going to do anything… They are not thinking those thoughts… Everything they do and is a push forward… don’t you see…. it is two steps forward… if you have cancer… you just don’t give up… you fight for your life… that’s what they are doing…. You don’t know if Eric Holder is not going to do anything… nobody knows that… Media reports so much out there we don’t know what is right and what is wrong… nobody has to prove anything to us…. What is important is that it gets back to the right people… NAACP and the Civil Rights Lawyers. We are helping as citizens by signing the petitions… but don’t say it is not helping or that Eric Holder is not going to do anything…. Don’t be psychics… Glad that some of you are not in Sybrina and Tracy’s camp to say negative things to them like that… poor parents… they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on… their hopes and dreams would go right out the door… After hearing the verdict has gotten me all twisted up and this new fight of what the Professor has posted and NAACP is doing has got my new energies started back up with new Hopes that there is a chance that Trayvon Martin may have his Justice afterall. I just can’t hear any more negativity or doubts… I have heard too much in the last year in half.

  53. Sophia33 says:

    The other 4 Jurors have released a statement saying B37 does not speak for them. B37 is making them look bad. But she couldn’t make them look worse than the verdict made them.

    “Shortly after the interview segment Tuesday, four other jurors released a statement responding to her comments.
    “We, the undersigned jurors, understand there is a great deal of interest in this case. But we ask you to remember that we are not public officials and we did not invite this type of attention into our lives,” they said.
    “We also wish to point out that the opinions of Juror B37, expressed on the Anderson Cooper show were her own, and not in any way representative of the jurors listed below.”

    • dianetrotter says:

      I’m willing to bet the Hispanic lady hasn’t spoken yet and she will be the one to break it down for us. Why did only 4 jurors come together to make the statement. This lone lady tried to do the right thing and was probably bullied and made to feel inferior.

    • groans says:

      B29 is noticeably the only silent one, so far. Notice what B37 states in the linked CNN article:

      There was one holdout, the juror said.

      “She wanted to find him guilty of something, but couldn’t because of the way the law is written. He wasn’t responsible for negligible things that he had done leading up to that point,” she said ….

      But even WORSE:

      Just as she believes Zimmerman was guilty of not using common sense, Juror B37 thinks Martin was not without fault.

      “I believe he played a huge role in his death,” she said about the teenager.

      “He could have … When George confronted him, and he could have walked away and gone home. He didn’t have to do whatever he did and come back and be in a fight,” she said.

      She’s a moron who fancies herself as knowing “the law” because she’s married to a “space lawyer”!! She gave herself away by referencing the SYG in connection with the verdict.

      Major problem with that: No SYG jury instruction was given. 😯

      • Sophia33 says:

        A probably because her husband was an attorney, she thought she knew it all. And maybe they thought that they had to yield to her “expertise”.

        • dianetrotter says:

          I just wrote basically the same thing. Sorry to repeat but I bet dollars to donuts that that is exactly what happened.

  54. Sophia33 says:

    The posts are kind of out of order by date and time on this blog

  55. Sophia33 says:

    I am watching CNN and one woman said the same thing that I said at the outset of the trial. Those jurors could not see Trayvon as human. They could not identify with him as a human being. That was my concern at the beginning of the trial and feared that it would be a problem.

  56. Woow! says:

    When were the other jurors on Pierce Morgan.

  57. colin black says:

    I Know Ive been snarky to my American friends to night .

    But that’s because this is ground zero on Bigotry an you have ti Inininaly take up the Cause the fight.

    Forrget about writing to your congress man elected officalt like staust quo always have always will

    The Ouo being at Stuas means ther monthy checks an yearly bonuses are SECURE.

    They don’t give a fig about you or yous .

    Only when there pressinflesh an askin for your vote an remembering your wife an kins name.

    Because theve had interns sneaking all day mineing for data .

    So they can go Hi Brad hope Suze an The Twins are wee.

    That s dinosaur extinct,

    As the Arab Spring has shown us an terrifies Western Democracys way way way more than Placeses like Eygypt can overthrow goverments via face book an twiiter an up to the date uploads on you tube Skype


    T P T B


    aN WE THE people of the world

    Have the power at our fingertips to do the same.

    We can with our kekboard condem the M S M to the dustbin of History as the lame stream media ##Wich was not even a stream but a river called the NILE

    An it ran through our every artery of news outlets evry day.

    Not just DENEIAL but out right lies wich they called spin

    Or fair reporting by covering both sides of argument.

    One for 5 mins the other 5 hours,

    BEGONE we can sa an not just wit h the corrupt media dissinformers.

    We the people can say begone politians

    Now we have the powe ofinstant communication anywhere any time with any one any where in the word.

    We have truly shrunk it to a gobeal village..
    An we don’t need corrupt ego maniacs running for elected office to line there an thre cronies pockets.

    Wenned clever intellegentpeople to run finance.
    ditto infrastructure ditto food produce ect.

    In essence Im saying with he worldwide web we can downsise the M S M to zero

    Like wise polititians can be downsised to zero a sunnessesry burdunsom tiresome individuals whom are well worth forgetting about.

    An then we can down size armys as wars would no longer happen without polititains getting cross at each other an sending our children of to war .

    If we just have the great an the good not elected people running not just countrys but the entire world in unison for the bettermen t of us all.

    In stead of armys we would truly have peace corps but armed with food an supplies instedof weapons

    Able to respond to natural disasters an such.

    I know we oldies wont see it but some of the young uns might just see the true splendour of the world wide web

    When we an futre generations begin to truly realise what a miracle of a gift we ve been given as a species to u ify an get rid of the coprate warmongering ecosocieconimic monsters that are keeping the majority of peoples minds enslavedan with that accomplished there bodys an souls as well M O O.

  58. deetruth says:

    A few minutes ago, Lawrence O’Donnell read a statement from 4 jurors, saying among other things that juror #37’s statements are hers and hers alone. I can’t find it in print yet. Did anyone hear/see it?

    • groans says:

      I did. It was on courthouse stationery, and everything. (??)

      And IIRC, B29 didn’t even sign onto that one. I wonder what’s up with her? Wonder if she was bullied into submission? She’s the only silent one now….

  59. smokeegyrl says:

    My heart is pounding….. uggghh… my head is spinnningggg…. I hate this…. IS ALL OF THIS A WASTE OF TIME… *sigh*… I am so crying..

  60. smokeegyrl says:

    Oh c’mon y’all.. Don’t let all of this get our hopes up and than y’all come on here and post the negatives… OH GOD… I can’t take too much more… y’all are making me cry again… At least it is a try… All these marches… Are y’all saying these marches are a waste of time… and these petitions are waste of time… because Eric Holder is not going to do anything… I’m so done… my energy levels.. has just been sapped… melting in my bed…

  61. smokeegyrl says:

    Ok, I have made a decision. I am going to write to the DOJ an email. I don’t know what good it may do but I am going to try, but I need help in the structure of the letter since I’m not a english major. I will work on it tomorrow. Can somebody help me. It will be short.

    • dianetrotter says:

      I LUV writing letters!!! Show us when you get something done. I was hoping this group could come up with an organized list of possible violations. Would love for LLMPapa to send some of his videos to direct them.

  62. KateW says:

    OMG!! Juror B37 says Zimmerman didn’t do anything unlawful and that he was justified in shooting Martin!!! Why? Because he was Black!! Vile, disgusting human being!! It is unlawful if Martin did nothing wrong and all the evidence shows he did nothing wrong. He was on his way home, he was trying to get away from this killer and the killer went to where is was. let me repeat that. THE KILLER WENT TO WHERE HE WAS!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      He was a guest of a RATL homeowner. He was murdered trying to escape the killer. Florida pretends to welcome guests– but fails to enforce the most basic of the Ten Commandments, or even its own convoluted laws, let alone the rules of hospitality.

      If it is true that JN failed to instruct that an aggressor may not benefit from the self-defense law, the judge–pinnacle of the legal system– helped create this complete, utter moral disaster.

    • Xena says:

      @KateW. Juror B37 said that GZ “confronted” Trayvon. Then she took a position of assumption of what Trayvon should have done. It’s the Zimmerman wasp nest theory that believes Trayvon had no rights.

      • Ezell Cooper says:

        I have a gut feeling that B-37 is someone who has posted not by her FB profile but has been using a page. js That Kris Knacks really comes to mind with the juror with the cats. JMO.

    • pat deadder says:

      Fogen knew the police were on their way,I wish everyone would stop saying Trayvon was defending himself,Trayvon didn’t have fogen’s dna on his hands,sleeves of his shirts,no blood on his hands.Imho Trayvon was not only screaming in fear he was screaming in pain.fogen had him in some kind of painful hold which he learned in his mma classes.I also think fogen blinded him with the flashlight and Trayvon tried to knock it away with his left hand.After the verdict I was numb for 3 days.But my house had been sold I had to find a place to live,my grass and hedge have been neglected.I have always watched the show The Waltons everyday after work but as of yet I can’t turn the tv on.I hope it is not just black organizations who are fighting against this travesty.Us whites have all the power.My xhusband had all the power in our marriage.For 25 years he decided when he was going to beat me up.One day I just left,We were well off and he was able to get the best lawyers etc.I admire Mr Leatherman and everyone here you are all beyond amazing.fogen knew he had to shut the kid up before the police arrived.What an effen whimp he was and is I’ve had much worse injuries than him and I didn’t kill my husband.I have sadness not anger now.Who said We love your Christ we just don’t like your chistians.Of course they don’t know our real Christians Just the blow hearts on tv pat Robertson etc.Well I wish I was more articulate but I just feel so sad..Any normal thinking person could easily see his nose wasn’t bleeding he had 3 pin pricks on the end of his nose.The back of his head IDK but if a proper investigation was done they could have figured it out.Oh god I have to stop before I drive you and myself crazy.

  63. chi1224 says:

    UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I still can’t watch the news or deal with this. I am still so sad beyond belief, I wish I didn’t have to live in this fucked up country anymore. Our so called justice system is sickening because we are a nation of fucked up people. How did we get SIX people in a room after all that jury questioning that could do this??? Somebody please tell me HOW?????? The answer to that question surely is not pretty and the worse part is it IS our reality! Will the BURN of this fade in time? Maybe… but I swear to God I will forever carry a torch for the innocent murdered Trayvon Martin. No DOUBT there.

  64. Brandy says:

    Just saw on CNN Piers Morgan that 4 jurors from Gz trial are saying they did what the law required them to do and also that Juror B37 thoughts are her own. I am getting the feeling that what B37 has been saying in AC interviews are bothering the other jurors

    • J4TMinATL says:

      I’m watching it and no one said that.

      July 16, 2013 at 8:13 pm
      Ok on right now:

      Dr Drew – pundits discussing
      Hannity – idk arguing
      CNN- Piers Morgan – MOM

      CNN 360 at 10pm ET, 20 minutes of unaired B-37 comments.

    • abbyj says:

      Brandy, Good point. They felt that they needed to soften B37’s ridiculously thin comments about how the jury worked. What really made me burst out laughing–seriously–was how four more jurors issued that statement that their “privacy be respected,” that they’d been through so much. Poor them.

      They’re so stunted that they actually believed that “self defense” began at the moment of the confrontation, not when that killer GZ stalked Trayvon by car and on foot with a loaded weapon. They actually believed that the “self-defense” clock started ticking when Trayvon decided he didn’t want to die at the hands of a racist who wouldn’t even identify himself. What a joke of a jury.

      • Brandy says:

        Will never get over this verdict! B37 is a disgrace. She lied to get on the jury. That juror is what is wrong in this country not the solution! These 6 women had an awesome opportunity to do the right thing. BIG FAIL! These women would of been so respected and admired. Could of really helped to turn the tide against racism. In this case IGNORANCE isn’t BLISS

    • Tzar says:

      they all know they are lying
      they know it was the boy screaming for help before he was executed
      the precedent they are setting shows that they are too stupid to for their own good

      • type1juve says:

        They simply do not care. A black life means nothing to them and what they did with this verdict was send black America a resounding FUCK YOU!

  65. LiveByTheGulf says:

    On the news here in FL, there are people camping in Governor Scott’s office. The group wants SYG law repealed/changed. Governor Scott is in New York – probably looking for more new businesses to move to Florida. Governor Scott’s campaign promise was based on new jobs – think it was 700,000 new jobs. Governor Scott has been praised when he has brought in new businesses – but he is nowhere the target of new jobs.

    Governor Scott answered “no” to the protester’s request. SYG will remain the law.

  66. KateW says:

    Stevie Wonder and the OJays say they will no longer be performing shows in Florida.

  67. KateW says:

    A time comes when silence is betrayal – Martin Luther King Jr

  68. disappointed says:

    Apparently Frank Taffe’s twitter account has been printed by a guest on Dr Drew. Frank T called ba lacks cotton pickers and something else. Wow and he swears fogen is not a racist. I am sick and disgusted. I think I am going to put myself in time out for 24 hours. This can not be my America. It just can’t be. I can not be this blind to my surroundings, could I?

    • KateW says:

      dont put yourself in time out!! This is the America in which we live and we cannot shut our eyes to it, we need to fight this head on. I dont understand why these stupid shows keep booking this racist clown!! I dont condone violence but I have never wanted to slap someone in the face so hard. lol

  69. disappointed says:

    Apparently Frank Taffe’s twitter account has been printed by a guest on Dr Drew. Frank T called ba lacks cotton pickers and something else. Wow and he swears fogen is not a racist. I am sick and disgusted. I think I am going to put myself in time out for 24 hours. This can not be my America. It just can’t be. I can not be this blind to my surroundings, could I?

  70. colin black says:


    erik holder?

    I prefer Noddy Holder

    this is to my special gal

    Double D Delight Rachele Gentile with a backbone of STEEL.

  71. J4TMinATL says:

    July 16, 2013 at 8:13 pm
    Ok on right now:

    Dr Drew – pundits discussing
    Hannity – idk arguing
    CNN- Piers Morgan – MOM

    CNN 360 at 10pm ET, 20 minutes of unaired B-37 comments.

  72. Two sides to a story says:

    I’m glad that various media outlets are asking the same questions I did after the interview with B37

    • dianetrotter says:

      I commented on “she and her husband.” It was interesting when she said “she” decided to not write the book omitting reference to her husband. She must have realized she screwed up or the legal beagle realized the DOJ may come a knocking.

  73. Judy75201 says:

    We can analyze this to the most minute detail. But I think it all comes down to one thing. Juror bias.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Jurors not knowing how to thoroughly investigate evidence.

      • Judy75201 says:

        Oh, they knew. They just chose to ignore. The bias toward fogen has been made perfectly clear by B37. The 4 jurors who now claim distance are simply covering their backs. Their verdict says otherwise.

  74. Judy75201 says:

    Fred, I’m beginning to think that this trial will go down in history as the most effed-up one ever. More than OJ, more than Casey.

    I don’t think the prosecution did such a bad job. Sure, I can critique it, but overall, not so bad. I really hate the legal “analysts” who are trying to draw blood to boost their own reps as know-it-alls.

    I KNOW that damn closing by O’Mara was lame.

    I KNOW B37 was biased, racist, and stupid.

    But nevertheless, how the hell did this happen?

    I hope you are feeling better.

  75. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Author, poet, and activist Maya Angelou was shaken by the verdict of the George Zimmerman trial, saying it shows “how far we have to go” as a country. “That one man, armed with a gun can actually profile a young man because he is black and end up shooting him dead…It is so painful,” Angelou said in an interview with TIME Monday.

    The case, which was decided Saturday, has caused deep divisions across the country. Some believe the verdict was a grave injustice. Others believe Zimmerman was acting in self-defense and had every right to stand his ground against Trayvon Martin.

    Angelou, however, believes the verdict’s impact will affect people from all communities across the country. “What is really injured, bruised, if you will, is the psyche of our national population,” Angelou said. “We are all harmed. We are all belittled, and we give to the rest of the world more ammunition to sneer at us. “

    Since the verdict people have stepped out in protest in cities across the country, echoing cries of “No Justice, No Peace,” on behalf of the slain teen. Angelou said the acts of protest evoke memories of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech during the 1963 March on Washington, which is approaching its 50th anniversary.

    Angelou, who received the Presidential Medal of Arts in 2000, worked for the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which was led by Dr. King, during the Civil Rights Movement. In 1993, she delivered the inaugural poem for incoming President Bill Clinton.

    On the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on Aug. 28, 1963, King delivered the celebrated speech during which he said, “I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.’”

    Decades later, Angelou reflected on those words. “It is of interest that we are now celebrating that speech at the same time that there are people in the street again all over the country protesting the Zimmerman trial,” Angelou said. “It is amazing that it could happen actually 50 years ago.”

    Read more:

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I swear, I just left a comment saying I Love Ms. Angelou, and told a little story.
      Either I forgot to put submit comment or some other sh*t happened.
      But, thank you, nevertheless and still.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        It’s drifting forever into cyber space, and where it goes, nobody knows. 🙂

        • Deborah Moore says:

          My words drifting in cyber space is fine by me.
          Maybe life on Mars or wherever will Giggle her and see her smiling face and hear her words of wisdom.
          Honeygirl. you’re the Bees Knees.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      She’s wonderful. I once went to the Treestump to check on stuff and people had the nerve to diss her there. To me, just shows how wonderful and powerful she really is.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I have read all of her books and love having them in my library signed.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Okay, so the story was this. Back in college, I was at a weekend Readers Theatre competition and on the last day, a Sunday, we were at a luncheon where she was the keynote speaker. I sat at a table right by the dais. Like twelve feet from her.
          I was mesmerized. Struck. And, well, truth be told, a little in love. Forty years ago, and I can still feel her passion.
          I’m a lucky girl.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          What a great experience!

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I really think racists are impotent if people seeking truth, justice and equality stand together in unity.

        When people carry on with hope and courage in their hearts and never let anyone turn them around, NOTHING can stop them.

  76. smokeegyrl says:

    ok… So, I am reading everything I can get my little eyes on… and one article just popped into my face. I am having a hard time with this everybody… I read all of your posts… some say they think the prosecution threw this case and I want to agree with it but then I see the passion and Guy, Mantei voice and then I look into Bernie’s eyes… I don’t see it… yes even Bernie’s… but then I see the grin on Angela’s face and than that puts doubt in my mind about her… but then I come across this article… …. my heart and soul is so dang confused right now… everyone can say all you want about whatever but not about Guy and Mantei… Mantei even had tears and sincerity in his body language… ugggghhhh…

    • cielo62 says:

      Smokkegyrl- only certain people had a “need to know” about how to make the case weak. Guy and Mantei did not need to know. Judge Nelson did.


    • Two sides to a story says:

      All this stuff may be grist for the Federal mill. We’ll just have to be patient and see.

    • type1juve says:

      Mantai was crushed, it was palpable. Guy was passionate in his defense of Trayvon. If something improper went on I don’t think they were privy to it. I still don’t believe that there is anything the prosecution could have done to overcome that jury. I believe that several came in with their minds made up and their job was to turn the others.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        yeah i think so too

      • dianetrotter says:

        BDLR looked totally hurt. It took courage for Angela Corey to say GZ is a MURDERER!!!

      • LeaNder says:

        I went through hell during BDLR’s closing argument. At that point I wondered if it was over. Mind you I have been pessimist before many, many times e.g. when Serino said concerning contradictions, was he suspicious, did he see serious contradictions: “Not at that point”. Prosecution did not pick up on that little item and let it pass.

        But yes, maybe it was all already over when the jury was seated. B37 has an exceptionally simplistic mind, I wonder what her job is. She made me look up “Today show”, I just voted pro Rolling Stone there, Cover inappropriate I belong to a tiny minority in the audience it seems.

        The “3 white women” argument defense used against prosecution at that point comes to mind too. Since yes, i was more skeptical concerning the all women, all mothers optimism around here. I wouldn’t have minded one or two men in there.

        Fogen smiled at B37, he seems to have known she is the one that will be on his side. I have no idea how and why but he seems to get along well with the ladies.

    • groans says:

      @ smokeegyrl: IMO, it wasn’t that the lawyers trying the case “threw” it. I think that some powers that be (e.g., Corey and/or Governor and/or Wolfinger?) tied their hands with respect to how they could try the case – their demeanor, aggressiveness, creativity, what was off-limits, etc.

      No heroes in north/central Florida, apparently. (No one’s gonna risk THEIR neck for some silly notion of justice for a black kid from Miami.)

      • groans says:

        AND the local Sanford LE tied the prosecutor’s hands too – by basically giving them NOTHING in their trial testimony. I’ve never seen LE so uncooperative during a criminal trial !!

      • LeaNder says:

        groan, someone posted a link to a counterpunch article yesterday by Robin D. Kelley, if I remember his name correctly.

        He used the term “Orwellian” to describe the defense argument, that is about it. The real problem anyone could have easily realized is that for Corey too this was a case that turned her business as usual upside down. I always felt a bit uncomfortable about that.

        This upside down argument struck me too, yes Orwellian:

        When O’Mara was asked if he thought the verdict might have been different if his client had been black, he replied: “Things would have been different for George Zimmerman if he was black for this reason: he would never have been charged with a crime.” In other words, black men can go around killing indiscriminately with no fear of prosecution because there are no Civil Rights organizations pressing to hold them accountable.

        Polite populist racism? I guess people consider it “polite”, I’d prefer Machiavellian, psychopathic argument, maybe?

        The list is long and deep. In 2012 alone, police officers, security guards or vigilantes took the lives of 136 unarmed black men and women—at least twenty-five of whom were killed by vigilantes. In ten of the incidents, the killers were not charged with a crime, and most of those who were charged either escaped conviction or accepted reduced charges in exchange for a guilty plea. And I haven’t included the reign of terror that produced at least 5,000 legal lynchings in the United States, or the numerous assassinations—from political activists to four black girls attending Sunday school in Birmingham fifty years ago.

        Long way to go, i guess I will read some books by this guy.

      • LeaNder says:

        And then there is the post 911 security world which causes the elites out there almost automatically and unreflected side with Fogen.

        There is another Orwellian type of argument. The left is anti-Semitic. it comes almost automatically as a result of embracing Israel’s security needs and land needs I would add.

        This is from a blog where my main critique always was you need to start at home. What are US tendencies that bring war of terrorism and homeland security and neighborhood watches or blog captains and yes, racism back to the American home ground. Mondoweiss interview with Kelley

  77. Professor, what if we can prove that SYG is a racist law, and that since the killer studied SYG, he knew how to legally kill a black person?

    Because the state of Florida devised the system that allowed this to happen, 100%, through and through…from the very start to the very finish.

    SYG was not used in this trial, but a juror evoked it repeatedly in an interview with Anderson Cooper.

    Florida made it legal to kill someone based on race and called it “SYG.” A racist decided to kill an effin’ coon by setting up the situation to exploit SYG.

    At the outset, “he looks like he’s up to no good.” “He’s coming toward me. He has his hand in his pocket.” “He looks like he’s on drugs or something.” “Effin coons.” (We all know he did not say punk. Racists do not call black boys punks. No more than black boys call white men homie.)

    He obviously sowed the scenes for a pre-manufactured alibi. There is no evidence at all that supports Trayvon acted suspiciously.

    In fact, there is otherwise direct evidence: he had his ear buds in. He was talking to a friend. It was half time of the NBA All Star game. He was bringing candy to a 12 yo.

    The killer had friends on the force. The force doesn’t like effin coons, either, and the killer is a good guy, and one of them. He talks likes them…is very respectful. Seems forthright enough. The kid was just another thug.

    What about that lady….whose son was a witness…she said that Det. Serino said they weren’t going to pursue this because it was a “racial” thing.

    And the cousin who called in and reported that the Zimmermans were indeed racists.

    All of that was ignored…by the State! The very people who employed the racist law to begin with!

    Chief Lee evokes SYG…which the State devised. The Orlando Sentinel reports it as business as usual. Chief Lee is shamed by the public; the State has to save face. The Orlando Sentinel doesn’t want to feel like it messed up by not investigating this case objectively. Racists who support SYG get on the jury. They identify with the killer’s frustration and racial animosity….killer is found not guilty.

    O’Mara evoked race in his closing arguments.

    West’s daughter tweeted the ‘we beat stupid” photo of vanilla ice cream from Chik-fil-A the day that Rachel Jeantel, a young, black woman who is opposite in everything of the West girls…and is completely invisible to society. Devalued. Humiliated. #DaddyKilledIt

    And what about West’s comments after winning his client’s aquittal?

    What about the “it was God’s plan” BS…?

    How many Trayvon Martin shooting targets were sold in FL?

    I see a strong case…

    • Also, there is now a climate of fear for all of us here in central FL…that anybody can devise a situation to support SYG for the lone surviving witness.

      People are afraid to speak out. Afraid to protest. Racists are looking for any excuse to evoke SYG. They have a racist law to protect them, set up by a racist state, enforced by racist police.

      None of us are safe. Any crazy, drunk lunatic can get away with this. Especially if he’s at all friendly with the local police.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I hear you, a scary cloud of suppression is drifting in.

        From the article I linked below:

        This verdict is a reminder that we all need to do far more, though I am not entirely sure what doing more should look like. How do we create change in a country where George Zimmerman can be acquitted? We can wear hoodies. We can protest. We can sign petitions. We can write our elected leaders. We can work to elect better lawmakers in 2014 and 2016 and beyond. We can donate money to and volunteer for organizations that fight racism and gun violence like the NAACP, Southern Poverty Law Center, ACLU, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and many others. We can also confront the instances of casual racism in our everyday lives, whether they come from ourselves or the people around us. We can stop hysterically shouting “political correctness” or “censorship” when people suggest that everyone, regardless of race or gender or any manner of “difference,” deserves to live with dignity. I’m not sure any of these efforts will accomplish much, but what else can we do? We have to do something.


        I am numb but I will not allow myself to feel hopeless. No one should allow themselves the luxury and impotence of despair right now. If we despair, we are surrendering to injustice. We may feel powerless. We may be powerless. But we cannot give up hope. We cannot be silent.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’m so terribly terribly sorry that all this is happening in FL. I can’t imagine – well, yes I can .. . . I lived for awhile in one of the whitest counties in AZ as the country swung right. The tea party politics became so uncomfortable that I left the country for a year and then settled on the left coast.

        • abbyj says:

          I really understand, 2sides. When you live in an area where the people exist in a completely alternative political world from you, and see everything that happens through the lens of racism, it wears you down. Same happened to me for a while, and I had to get out, too. When you use the word “uncomfortable,” I know just what you mean. I felt like I was living in a war zone. Once I got out, I felt as if I could breathe again.

  78. Michael says:

    Is there an exception to double jepody if the jury is proved to be corrupt ? ie there was no jepody in the first place?

  79. colin black says:

    Great name she picked for herself as an attorney

    Ne JAme just know it was a made up name.

    Ghostbusters Theme for background ADVERT

    Ne James law practice.


    If your all alone in the neighbourhood.
    You just shot some duDe…

    Who you gonna call when your in a Jamm


  80. diary73 says:

    He did not say “punks.”

  81. diary73 says:

    I want all of social media to declare at the top of our fonts:


    • KateW says:

      Man it just isn’t like the movies is it? Where they can eliminate certain noise. Like say just elminate the sound of the wind so they have the voice. I think we have the technology but it is not quite there yet, after this case perhaps some genius will develop a tool to do exactly that and then we will all be able to hear this clearly. It does sound like the word he is using has an oo sound to it. Like sp oo n. Not an uh sound like punks.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I don’t need anymore technology to tell me what came out of his stanky mouth. He said “FUCKING COONS” and, it’s not at all hard to hear what he said. the state prosecutors know exactly what he said and, so does the damn field agents of the FBI in Florida.

        There are no if’s and’s or but’s about it, he said fucking coons!

  82. Judy75201 says:

    I have it from Mark NeJame himself that the rumor that #B37 is his wife is absurd.

    • colin black says:

      Of course it is George Anthonys Mistress Sold Down The River Cruz clearly stated under oath that Mark Ne Jamme is a Woman trangeder dresser as a man an high powered attorney.

      But when he goes home at night kicks of his dude clothes settles back an is called Madalyne.

  83. lsimon3321 says:

    I’ve signed all of the petitions, forwarded them to my friends and family to sign. What I really want now is to know how to help effect real change as a non-lawyer. I want to know what to do or how to help change the SYG laws in Texas, where I live. I don’t want to wait to see if a civil case for Trayvon is successful. I don’t want to see if the Justice Dept is able to start and successfully complete a charge against GZ for murder. If anyone knows what to do to lobby or whatever is most effective to change the laws regarding the criminal justice system, please tell me. I’ve written to my state and local representatives in Texas. I’m a motivated follower.

    • cielo62 says:

      Isimon- I’m right there with you. First thing is to get someone in office with a brain. Asswipe is leaving but Abbot is just as much an asswipe as Perry.


  84. KateW says:

    Yes, I dont understand WHY Judge Nelson decided against allowing the use of race in the case, but then she allowed West to call RAchel and Martin the racist! AND NOBODY SAID ANYTHING! NOT THE PROSECUTION, NOT THE JUDGE. They sat back and allowed them to make it about race and yet nobody said a thing. But honestly no matter what they did the verdict would be what it was because unscrupulous individuals decided to infiltrate the panel and refuse to do their sworn duty to uphold the laws of this country and thoroughly and thoughtfully review all the evidence and work together to come to a conclusion. This was not some traffic ticket case, this was not some assault case, this was a felony case where a child had been SLAIN. Their dereliction of duty is unbecoming of jurors and a serious violation. On so juror has already said it was more important for her to go home than work with her fellow jurors on a fair and just verdict. It is obvious this individual did not review the evidence given, even at the urging of Mr. De La Rionda, he said to look at all the evidence, if they needed to use each other as models, get on top of each other and see if what this man said, his own words, were plausible. The evidence refuted, rebutted almost everything this man said. Common sense did not prevail in that jury room. That verdict was an ultimate failure.

    Ben Jealous, they received 1 million+ signitures!! 100 signatures PER SECOND!! and that is with their servers being down because of the traffic. AMAZING!!

    • KateW says:

      And let me say….Judge Nelson had no right to decide what evidence was pertinent in this case. That’s like saying someone was murdered but the talk of murder is banned in court. I mean….WHAT?? If there may be evidence to the contrary then why?

      On another note, perhaps, and I use that lightly, it was meant to be that she excluded this because it opened the door for the DOJ to possibly come in to the picture. Maybe? I don’t know but all I know is that they did not do all they could for the victim in this case.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @katew, NO they didn’t do all they could do to get justice for this child. it’s my opinion that Judge Nelson did her share of following the script, in the fix to ensure Fogen would walk. Trayvon was a child and, he deserved better than he got from the SA office and, so did his family.

        This was just as much a hate crime as that of, James Byrd, Rodney King and, Matthew Sheppard. I don’t see how anybody can see it as being anything else but a hate crime. these ass holes always get away along with fucking coons and, the NEN calls to LE about suspicious looking AA young males, how can it not be seen as anything else except a hate crime?

  85. diary73 says:

    What is going on with the site?

  86. colin black says:

    We in the UK have a slightly less demoniseing of a hoodie as a fashion appperell or statement or indeed those whom choose to wear them

    Some what less hysterical than a certain Nation that will remain nameless reaction

    Our Polititians in the UK suggestion to people being intimidated by youths wearing a Hoodie.


    Don’t cross over the road to avoid them make eye contact an if the need arrises give them a hug.

    There just people like us youths to day feel disenfranchised unapreaciated and at times un loved both at home

    An in society in genral lack of oppertunites in employment
    High fees for university have left many feeling lost an lonely.

    Americas attitude If he is in your Hood an your in the mood if a dude in a hoodie shows up good .

    You can plug a hollow point into that Mo Fo if you feel like you could you should

    An it will all be good.

    What happened to use lot when you left the Crown ?

    • colin black says:

      Mind you we in the UK don’t have to wonder at every single adult male or female

      An think is that person c c p are they packing.

      When we men in the UK an think she spacking we are not thinking about fire arms>

      • colin black says:


        don’t know whats going on with the site its alright from here .
        Comments appearing in order ect #

        what you mean whats going on /
        Comments wise or what.

        Me my comments are just very snarky.

  87. LeaNder says:

    This juror 37 is an unbelievable stupid woman.

    Notice she thought there are 2 minutes between the end of Trayvon’s call with DeeDee and the encounter. That was my fear that none of these ladies would in fact go through the trouble to making up there on mind based on evidence instead of simply parroting what they remembered, partly remembered falsely.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the publisher canceled the contract with her. Also quite interesting that this lady reduces Rachel to uneducated. Fucking unbelievable.

    • LeaNder says:

      Here is a little cost-benefit-arithmetic on Trayvon’s life. Another lady, whose book you do not need to read. The lady may well be a fraud.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      They went through the evidence much too quickly. They did not understand it. Can’t anyone do something about this?

      The lit agent did withdraw her offer with B37.

      • KateW says:

        Good! That rancorous individual tried to profit from this case because that was her priority! Not the duty she upheld to do her due diligence in this case. She should be ashamed of herself!! All of them should be ashamed of themselves, especially those who knew they were right and allowed individual they could probably see werent reviewing any of the evidence talk them into an unjust verdict. I keep saying….at least manslaughter, that would have been middle ground. De La Rionda told them THE LAW SAYS THE INDIVIDUAL HAS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

      • groans says:

        Your source, please? I’d LOVE to see it!

    • KateW says:

      LeaNder the evidence was overwhelming. All the jury had to do was line up his statements with what the evidence showed. How can the kid be holding his nose and mouth and reaching for his gun at the same time! Why were there no muffled screams if he claims he was smothering him. WHERE WAS THE BLOOD!! Where was the great bodily injury. I have seen people beat up and that was no beating. De La Rionda said HOW IS HE ALIVE!! With 25 slams and 25 blows to concrete! He would have had a serious concussion and most likely would have been out cold with a cracked skull. He was embellishing his story, he was exaggerating his narrative, his statements were inconsistent and IT WAS APPARENT THE SPD SERINO was feeding him lines and making statements for him. “THAT IS YOU SCREAMING.” What detective makes statements for and leads a suspect! Then wants to come into court and says he was being truthful after several inconsistent statements. Perhaps Serino is the one that needed to be tested for drugs!

    • bettykath says:

      LeaNder, actually, she got it right ” I think there was two minutes between when George hung up from his 9-1-1 call, to the time Trayvon and Rachel had hung up. ” but there was no curiosity as to what fogen was doing during those 2 minutes or why there was a discrepancy between the 2 minutes and his assertion that Trayvon hit him almost immediately after he hung up.

      I don’t know how old this woman is but she talks about foreman and the girls. [shudder]

      • groans says:

        Like I mentioned after jury selection:

        The only dysfunctional work groups that I’ve ever experienced (and I’ve been in a variety of work groups) were all-female groups.

        Just sayin’ … that’s been my experience.

      • LeaNder says:

        LeaNder, actually, she got it right ” I think there was two minutes between when George hung up from his 9-1-1 call, to the time Trayvon and Rachel had hung up. ”

        Betty I fear this type of polite latent racists much more than the CTH mindset. But her interview is by far the best evidence that some people are not able of independent thinking and looking closer at evidence or e.g. time lines. The defense was prepared for that the defense not so much. Look closely the evidence she picks out in her assessment, like the tiny little flashlight …

        Look at the life-worth-assessment argument I posted above, Do you think it is an accident that the 4 versus 2 surfaces there again? I seriously doubt.

        So now we have an expected loss of $4M for an expected savings of $2M (assuming that Zimmerman’s life is roughly worth the same as Trayvon’s). Not a good deal.

        Two and four are exactly the numbers used by prosecution versus defense in their closing arguments. They obviously somehow stick.

        In any case from the official transcript:

        COOPER: So you didn’t find her credible as a witness?

        JUROR: No.

        COOPER: So did you find her testimony important in terms of what she actually said?

        JUROR: Well, I think the most important thing is the time that she was on the phone with Trayvon. So you basically, hopefully if she heard anything, she would say she did, but the time coincides with George’s statements and testimony of time limits and what had happened during that time.

        COOPER: Explain that?

        JUROR: Well, because there was a — George was on the 9-1-1 call while she was on the call with Trayvon, and the times coincide, and I think there was two minutes between when George hung up from his 9-1-1 call, to the time Trayvon and Rachel had hung up.

        So really nothing could have happened because the 9-1-1 call would have heard the nonemergency call that George had called, heard something happening before that.

        She has not managed to put prosecution’s two minutes in context, but it somehow sticks on her mind.

        Do you know why she says, the time coincide? Simple the defense visualized that for her. Guy alluded to the two minutes George was not accounted for and maybe he should not have done that if he did not also dive more deeply into the four important times at end, instead of simply challenging the 4 minutes to get home argument by sicko MOM:

        No, the difference between the end of G’s and T’s call is three minutes not two, she clearly did not even bother to take a closer look.
        7:13:40 – End of GZ’s call:
        7:15:43 – Rachel’s call to Trayvon interrupted

        Three minutes not two

        7:16:11 witness 11’s call
        7:16:56 shot

        Which means 1 minute 13 seconds between the time the call between Rachel and Trayvon ended and the shot was fired.

      • LeaNder says:

        The defense was prepared for that the defense not so much.

        the second should be prosecution of course.

        The core stone to memorize matters is repetition. I did not see one single repetition of the fact that George walked exactly in the direction were the little flashlight was found. Not once when Jon came up again, e.g. in Bernie’s closing argument.

  88. Woow! says:

    I received an email from thatg they suffered a DOS attack. Some people do not want us the petition to have that CAC tried in federal court for hate crimes.

  89. KateW says:

    Howdy Yall!! The weather has cooled down dramatically here in Texas. Another f’d up state lol Texas and Florida are like kissing cousins. Another state that fails to prosecute individuals for heinous crimes, and seems to be bent on putting every person of color on death row.

    • KateW says:

      I have to say though I live in one of the more liberal cities, San Antonio and my brother is in Austin.

    • Woow! says:

      I’m with you fellow Texan. Remember George Busch didn’t think with those guys down in Jasper did to Mr. Byrd was a hate crime and failed to label it as such while governor and also when Mr. Byrd’s mother traveled to D.C. when he first became president.

      Governor asswipe is not seeking election. Let’s see who they put in office next. I still can’t believe someone that dumb was elected governor. I wonder who is really running the state into the ground from the shadows?

  90. BillT says:

    this juror is simply insane…….so just clearly stated “”when George confronted him”……then she admitted that fogen was the initial aggressor but that changed??

    you CANT claim self defense when you stalk someone and start a confrontation…..Martin COULD do so and his life was clearly in danger, attempted murder by Martin would be LEGAL.

    • Thrace says:

      She jusitifed everything he did. Even talked about poor choices George made and use that as an excuse. Drunks make poor choices too when they get in cars and drive, when caught they are held accountable. Some even go to prison if they kill or maim someone.

    • groans says:

      She’s a media WHORE, in addition to being a shallow, prejudiced moron.

  91. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    It is my prayer that singers from folk to rap create songs that speak to this verdict.

  92. colin black says:

    Theere is only one type of homo sapien we all have the same d n a an that the diversity of our cultures is something to enrich the soul
    The differing languge an shades of pigmentation
    Red heads blondes /
    Chinease African European all came from one single source one common Ancestor And She was what peole whom see colour BLACK.
    All humans or homo sapiens originated in Africa an 99 percet of them died out due to a bottleneck type situation

    Less than seven thousand madcde it our across to Eurasia some how an spread out to claim all four corners of the Earth an flourish .

    Just as all domestic dogs evolved from wolves an yey are all shapes an sizes colours ect.

    Same thing with us people but a chiwawwa is just as much a dog as a great Dane an with step ladders they could make puppys.

    Rich White people despice people of colour like AA an or any one with a darker pigmentation.

    And yet spend friggin fortunes on vacations to the Bahammas or such to soak up rays an turn there skin into leather

    Doesn’t make sence an neither does there petty small minds bbbiggoted pea brain self obseesed serutypical mind think points of view.

    Oh he was Blahck used street talk por georgie worgie he only had a gun that Child had WARRIOR GENES .
    An was gonna whup georgie worgies ass

    Id have shot him myself if he loomed out at me oh my MERCY ME Someone get me a minttulip before I feint.

    Do you think they fluttered ther fans an batted there eyelids as they once again

    This time murdered his innocence his reputation as a kid with skittles an water mellon juice an murdered his right to walk the streets or gated community of his own land of birth because he


    He thought the Skinny Kid within sight of safety an life all of a sudden forgot hir wee bro tha all start Game his convo with DD
    An decided to pencil a bare handed murder into his schedule

    After all he had a couple on minutes to kill.
    Or be killed.

    They let him walk much like George they knew they could an thought they should.

    Because the wanted th put Black people in ther place an they wanted to Inflict even more pain on Trayvons loved ones

    An last but not least they done it for gai an fame

    As there warped minds think a blatantly perverse verdict as opposed to the just an expected verdict would generate more DOLLARS GREEN

    Than the just an right an guilty verdict

    An that’s the truth.


  93. YQ says:

    Still thinking Fogen was in the commision of felony stalking like what WillisNewton commented on earlier. Downplayed as simply following? I never thought for a second that following wasn’t against the law in some form, that’s why people don’t follow other people they don’t know.

  94. KA says:

    Honestly, I just want him off the street with a clear, enforceable, powerful,deterrent for ever other police wanna be that thinks he can harass and kill a black kid.

    Justice for Trayvon does not have to be in this lifetime, but locking the murderer up with no other access to guns or people does.

    Let some severe consequence be given to maybe deter the next “Zimmerman like killing”

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I am so pissed!

      The following day, Robertson called for those protesting the the verdict to “chill out” and “live in harmony.”

      “There was a tragedy in Mississippi and a man named Emmett Till was taken and lynched and brutally murdered, and it was apparently supported by the state and people involved in the government,” he pointed out. “There was no question of what that was. This thing was not Emmett Till. This was a young man, who apparently jumped on a man who thought he was a quasi-policeman. And the two had a scuffle, and one of them shot the other one.”

      “Well, that’s the way it was. So, why do we make such a big thing out of it?” Robertson asked. “Why don’t we just chill out and say justice has been served, justice has been done?”

      “We don’t need to exacerbate the racial tension. What we need to do is love each other and live in harmony in this land and respect the rule of law.”

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        My blood is boiling!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        This is Pat Robertson:

      • Malisha says:

        Had Pat Robertson been around when Jesus was preaching in the street, make no mistake about it: he would have been screaming for Jesus to be crucified. Not a shadow of a doubt. I am really sick of seeing people label themselves “Christian” and behaving like the greatest anti-Christ of all times. Robertson should really have to face the calumny he heaps on others. What a disgusting, other-blaming, self-righteous, ignorant lying piece of scum. WIth the possible exception of Fogen himself, nobody’s sin is as great as Robertson’s. HE should chill; how can we live with HIM! He is an abomination and if there’s a God, he’s one of the reasons we are not all bathed in the glory of God’s smiling countenance.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          You said, he’s one of the reasons we are not all bathed in the glory of God’s smiling countenance.
          I So agree with you.
          Totally counterproductive to Christ’s message.
          He even fits the image of the devil, doesn’t he?
          Yikes. Run away, Run away.

    • Thrace says:

      he lost it a long time ago. he’s an old sexist bigot.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ugh. Ignorance combined with religion.

    • Girlp says:

      diary he lost his mind many many years ago.

  95. groans says:

    The Daily Show “reported” last night (7/15/13) on CAC’s acquittal.

    Don’t miss it!

  96. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  97. believeinkarma says:

    What happen to equal force in self defense? Can’t bring a gun to a fist fight. That is gone too?

    • Thrace says:

      In Fl it appears you just have to be the last one standing.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Left that behind in Britain, I think.

    • Jun says:

      that’s not the case in Florida, you just have to be reasonably scared of imminent danger or death

      Or the last person standing, that’s it

      A black guy skated under the SYG by simply alleging that the person he shot, whom was unarmed mind you, he thought he was about to pull a piece on him so he shot the person

      This was in Florida

      Now add to that the games you can play with jury selection and retarded meth head verdicts in Florida, your chances are pretty damn good

      The black guy proved to the jury whom acquitted him stating that they believe his fear was reasonable and his homicide was excusable and justified

  98. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Michael Moore:

    “Had a gun-toting Trayvon Martin stalked an unarmed George Zimmerman, and then shot him to death… DO I EVEN NEED TO COMPLETE THIS SENTENCE?”

    Bill Maher:

    “Hey Zim, find another hobby now that u won”

    • Jun says:

      Honestly, that crazy law in Florida, if Trayvon did shoot Fogen, he’d walk too

      Other black people have walked too

      You just have to prove with even 1% of evidence that you reasonably feared for imminent danger or death, and you skate, on reasonable doubt

      And considering Fogen’s connections, if Trayvon was in the same position and it was SPD, they woulda thought Fogen was just another hispanic gang member burglar and Trayvon shot him in self defense

  99. Malisha says:

    Lawyer associated with the American Constitution Society writes without the “fear of saying its name”:

  100. Girlp says:

    I was thinking today if O’Mara may have stepped into something he can’t handle. He is as bigoted and self-serving as his client but a movement may be forming can he deal with it?

    • abbyj says:

      Gp, Great question. He may have shown his colors too flagrantly, bitten off more than he could chew, in the most racist way. As this juggernaut gathers speed and power among the public, MOM may find himself under more criticism than he can handle.

  101. willisnewton says:

    Here’s another legal question for those with law degrees:

    Criminal stalking under the florida statutes is a crime. Is stalking a federal crime in any way, shape or form?

    I think that the car to pedestrian chase could have been argued to show that GZ was already breaking the law before he exited his car, and so that whatever went down in the missing minutes, he had no right ot claim self defense.

    Now that a federal case is the last hope for justice that route seems unlikely as a way to say TM’s civil rights were violated unless the crime is federal somehow.

    What gives, legally speaking here?

    • Jun says:

      yes it is a criminal statute but some parts of it I do not understand

      I have no clue regarding their jurisdiction

      some parts it says US jurisdiction, which sounds like the whole country to me, and then it says special maritime or territorial jurisdiction

      then it says if you shoot someone just because they are under a protected class, such as race, you can be charged with violating civil rights of the victim

  102. ladystclaire says:

    OT, in Lancaster PA, a little five year old white girl was kidnapped and, LE as well as those in her neighborhood were looking for her. there was an AA teen who along with some of his friends were helping an elder neighbor, move a couch when it came to he and his friend to go deeper in the woods behind the house where the little girl wandered off to and, he and his friend found her.

    To make a long story short, this kid and his friend may well have saved this child’s life by the actions that they took. now, if you go to youtube, to see his interview, that is not all you will see. there are racist whites on that site doing what only they can do best and, that is to trash this kid and, for what? it is so unreal how these people choose to their time and circumstance’s to show the rest of society their RACIAL IGNORANCE TO CALL ANY AA THE “N” WORD AS WELL AS CALL THEM A MONKEY’S..

    • disappointed says:

      The story was on my local news station. Bless those boys for finding her, and shame on the rest of the fools who have no respect for our neighbors!

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      i posted in the last thread i think…these kids actually chased down the car that the little girl was in and the kidnapper got scared and threw her out the car. The young boys carried her home to her mom. Heroic indeed.

  103. LiveByTheGulf says:

    Someone said that the reason it was an fairly all-white jury said it was due to a low percentage of AA in Sanford. On city-data,it said 29.2%. Percentage wise, there should have been 1-2 AA available to be on the jury – . Also, I wonder how only women got on the jury.

    White alone – 24,096 (45.0%)
    Black alone – 15,660 (29.2%)
    Hispanic – 10,844 (20.2%)
    Asian alone – 1,473 (2.7%)
    Two or more races – 1,073 (2.0%)
    American Indian alone – 204 (0.4%)
    Other race alone – 198 (0.4%)
    Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone – 22 (0.04%)

    Read more:

    • Dave says:

      Prospective jurors were called, supposedly randomly, from throughout Seminole County. Countywide, African-Americans are a much smaller percentage of the population than they are in the city of Sanford. BDLR did use a strike to get rid of one AA man (with good reason IMHO).

      Why all women? For one thing, women are probably less likely than men to be the sole breadwinner of a family which makes it more difficult for many of them to plead hardship. The members of the jury pool are supposed to be sent to voir dire in random order by computer. The fact that Florida uses a six person jury works against the sort of diversity I would like to have seen.

    • aussie says:

      There were representatives of all those groups called, in the 500 who got notices.

      But they have to be chosen in the order in which they’re first interviewed so once 6 are accepted, that’s that.

      So the real question is, who and how chose in what order they would be called for voire dire?

      The first people we here thought would be good jurors were at least 20 down the line. How did that happen? Who chose the ORDER????

  104. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    You can find Eric Holders complete speech at

    NAACP Convention:

    I transcribed a little bit starting at timestamp @0:30 —

    I believe that this tragedy provides us an opportunity to speak honestly, HONESTLY, and openly about the complicated and emotionally charged issues that this case has raised.

    Years ago, some of these same issues drove MY father to sit down with me, have a conversation, which is no doubt familiar to many of you.

    About how, as a young black man, I should interact with the police. What to say and how to conduct myself if I were ever stopped or confronted in a way that I thought was unwarranted.

    Now, I am sure my father felt certain that at that time that my parents’ generation would be the last that would have to worry about such things for their children.

    Since those days, our country has indeed changed for the better. The fact that I stand before you as the 87th Attorney General of the United States serving in the administration of the first African American President, proves that.

    Yet, for all the progress that we’ve seen, recent events have demonstrated that we still have much more work to do and much further to go.

    The news of Trayvon Martin’s death last year and the discussions that have taken place since then reminded me of my father’s words so many years ago.

    And, they brought me back to a number of experiences that I had as a young man.
    When I was pulled over twice and my car search on the New Jersey Turnpike when I’m sure I wasn’t speeding .

    Or, when I was stopped by a police officer while I was simply running to catch a movie, at night, in Georgetown, in Washington, D.C.

    I was at the time of that last incident A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      also from Holder:

      “It’s time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods,” said Holder, of stand-your-ground laws. “These laws try to fix something that was never broken. There has always been a legal defense for using deadly force if – and the ‘if’ is important – no safe retreat is available.”

  105. YQ says:

    Signed the NAACP petition and also urged them to press a probe on those jurors… Will sign the official White House petition 2morrow.

    Again thanks Professor for providing us with a platform to fight for Trayvon.

    “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” MLK

  106. Girlp says:

    I finally got to see Rachel Jeantel on Piers…WOW! what a smart and lovely young woman with great morals and values such strength and character. She puts B37 to shame, I hope B37 watched and learned from Rachel because she has a lot to learn.

    • anita says:

      B-37 will never learn . Her mind is completely closed. She is a disgrace to me, my family, my friends. She should be ashamed of herself, after watching Rachel last. I wonder if she did watch Rachel? Sorry, that racist will never change, she doesn’t want to or see the need to change.

    • Beverly says:

      She is remarkable, brave and beautiful. I hope West occasionally feels ashamed of himself for being a bully and working to humiliate her, even being joined by his daughters. Makes me ill, but maybe he will learn something.

  107. Mary Davis says:

    I don’t know where my post went. I’ll repeat it.

    B37 was on Piers Morgan calling the killer George. She even so called cried. During jury selection she referred to Trayvon as a boy of color. Why in the world did the prosecutors let this racist woman on the jury I will never know.

    • Rachael says:

      Is boy of color bad?

      • bettykath says:

        you’re being sarcastic, right?

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ Rachael. I’ll let you figure that out.

        • Rachael says:

          No, I’d rather you not. I have a lot of friends who are in people of color organizations and refer to themselves as people of color and I, being of dark olive complexion myself, consider myself a person of color.

          The definition, as far as I can find is a person who is not white or of European parentage.

          In fact – as stated in Wikipedia:

          Person of color
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          Jump to: navigation, search

          Person of color (plural: people of color; persons of color) is a term used primarily in the United States to describe any person who is not white. The term is meant to be inclusive among non-white groups, emphasizing common experiences of racism. People of color was introduced as a preferable replacement to both non-white and minority, which are also inclusive, because it frames the subject positively; non-white defines people in terms of what they are not (white), and minority frequently carries a subordinate connotation.[1] Style guides for writing from American Heritage,[2] the Stanford Graduate School of Business,[3] Mount Holyoke College,[4] recommend the term over these alternatives. It may also be used with other collective categories of people such as students of color, men of color and women of color. People of Color typically refer to people of African, Asian, Hispanic and/or Latino, and Native American heritage. It may also be used to refer to mixed-race people.

          So if this is a problem, I would hope you would let me know it so I don’t continue to use this as a description people might find racist because to my knowledge it was supposed to be bring people together rather than apart as racism does, so do not do that “I’ll let you figure it out” crap with me. If it is a problem, tell me.

          • Mary Davis says:

            @ Rachael. Don’t you dare talk down to me. If you really don’t know what the term means, then figure it out for yourself. BTW I don’t like your tone. Another thing, I don’t have to explain a damn thing to you. I can say anything I want to say as long as I am not offending anyone and I don’t believe I have to explain myself to you, especially when you are being so insulting.

          • disappointed says:

            Rachel it is one step a way from calling him a colored boy, which is highly disrespectful. I know this because of my background, previous career.

            I am sorry if I offended anyone but I think Rachel has been here a long time and a simple answer is all she wanted. She is on Trayvon’s side. jmo

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Sweetie, we’re all people of color, including my Irish father and Viking mother – stretching back over a thousand years. Bright pink cheeks, freckled skin, first burned and then tawny in summer.

            Unless one of us was Albino.

            Credibly, that person would be “white.”

        • cielo62 says:

          Mary Davis- back in the late 90s it was the phrase to say: people of color. As a Hispanic I called myself a woman of color. I don’t know how she meant it. And it IS passé.


          • Rachael says:

            I’m glad that it is passe because obviously trying to say the right thing can get one in trouble. Now if she had said he was a “colored boy,” there would be NO question whatsoever. I thought she was trying to say the right thing. Well excuse the fuckshit outa me.

            No matter what one says or how they say it, someone will be offended.

            Call someone short, call someone fat, we have to make up adjectives for everything and they change every day because someone inevitably gets offended.

            Well this short fat brown turd is signing off now.


          • Mary Davis says:

            @ cielo. I don’t know how she meant it either, I just thought she was a step away from saying a colored boy. Even tho so, No one have to explain anything to anyone. After all, we all have opinions and we should not be condescending or mean to anyone, especially for no reason.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I’ve always known Rachael to be a nice person and I don’t think she meant to upset anyone by asking about this.

            As I recall, in the 80s and 90s, a lot of brown folks were calling themselves people of color, but I don’t hear that any more.

    • groans says:

      @ Mary Davis – I believe the prosecutors DID try to use a peremptory challenge to dismiss B37 and another juror. MOM claimed those challenges were “discriminatory” because the prosecution “was only challenging white women.”

      Despite never specifying whether the supposed discrimination was against “whites” or against “women,” the normally-intelligent Judge Debra Nelson BOUGHT INTO the defense’s frivolous objection.

      So … what did we end up with? A jury of ALL WHITE WOMEN (one of whom is apparently Hispanic, of debatable color/race).

      This was one of Judge Nelson’s several key decisions during trial that made conviction essentially impossible. SMDH.

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ Disappointed. @ Two sides. I know Rachael has been here a long time, but so have I. I can truly say that I have not intentionally offended anyone, and if I did I surely apologized. It is not that she asked about this, but it’s the way she said it. I was not talking crap. I only stated what the juror said on Piers Morgan. Sometimes it’s not what you say so much, but how you say it. Anyway I’m through.

        • renah says:

          @mary davis

          Rachael is one of the hardest workers for civil rights on this site. Her compassion & empathy are truly astounding, her voice is loud, and she is part of the nearly-original core group that’s helped make this site into the wonderful & BULLY-FREE site that it is today..@

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Judge Nelson had a little warble in her voice as she told the ex-defendant he was free. I wonder if she is proud of herself.

        • groans says:

          Yeah? Well JN didn’t have any warble in her voice when she made her asinine jury selection and jury instruction decisions. She handed an acquittal to the defense. I believe she got corrupted along the way, like all the key players. Let her swim in her own cesspool of a county.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        Women and minorities cannot be arbitrarily dismissed from jury duty. Non-minority (“white”) males can.

        It’s the law.

        Unfortunately, in this case.

        • groans says:

          @ PiranhaMom – There was nothing arbitrary about the prosecution’s requested dismissals. There were a bunch of white women about to be seated, and the prosecution wanted to dismiss two of them for good reasons. Obviously, they didn’t ask to remove ALL – or even most – white women! Just two! And since there were a bunch of white women about to be seated, the absurdity is that the judge’s ruling essentially meant the prosecution couldn’t use ANY more “peremptory” challenges.

          The “law” was invoked a defense ruse, and JN foolishly fell for it.

          It wasn’t “unfortunate” in this case – it was shamefully ironic! I mean … look at the jury that got seated: A bunch of white women!

    • abbyj says:

      B37 was sickening to listen to. Saying what she “knew” was “in George’s heart” made me want to throw up. The ditz didn’t have a clue what was in the twisted heart of that racist GZ. She bought into it all, hook, line, and sinker. She blamed Trayvon, although he had NO idea who was stalking him or why. I guess she wanted Trayvon to genuflect before this CAC.

  108. Mary Davis says:

    Figure this. Juror B37 was on Piers Morgan calling fogen George.

    During jury selection B37 referred to Trayvon as a boy of color. How they let this woman on the jury is beyond me. Anyone in their right mind can see why fogen was acquitted.

  109. ladystclaire says:

    This is so sad that a few of these women may have lied to get on that jury in order to free someone who murdered a child. I have signed every and all petition for the DOJ to prosecute this fat bastard. I also believe they should be investigated.

    There is a lot that does not smell too good with this jury and, the Federal Government’s DOJ owe it to Trayvon and his family, to get the truth and justice for this child who is gone too soon. I’m so sick about this and, something has to be done by that I mean, bring him before a jury of his peers on a federal level, for violating this child’s civil rights.

    Something like this can only happen in the worst country in the world, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

  110. colin black says:

    Prosecute Zimmerman for a Fedrall Hate Crime.s
    Firdt S P D was scapegoated for this appalling racesist Act then Florida an Now Zimmerman ..

    Prosecute the Jury for a hate crime persecute the laws an legal system that allowed a CHILD STALKING OUT FOR EXCITEMENT AN NOT EVEN AN ADRENALLIN RUSH AT HIS FIRST KILL?

    Or was it?

    Remember the George has shot someone else comment?

    Prosecute American jurour system that reduces guilt ot innocence to the level of a Book of the Month Club meet.

    An the book theyre discussing is Mein Kampf.

    Prosecute a Country that instead of using the election of a mixed race president not to mend an build briges .

    But to blow them up an become more polarised an open about there distain for minorities of every kind an theres none less than those of AA Decent.

    Those whos decendants fore bears didn’t flock to the Statue of Liberty an become part of the huddled MASSSES.

    No there forebears were shipped across manacled an then bred gor future slave stock to labour for rich white Massahs.

    No theve never been part of the just as Native Americans the original inhabitants before the masses arrived have always been seen as Inferior to those fucked up W A S P type mmental midgetry that not only flourishes in Merica its THRIVEING

    Obamas resinecy has ripped the divide wide open an polarised the nation into an even wose mind set that pre civil rights conditions.

    At least the KKK had to hide there identity an be anonymous.

    Not anyfriggin more FOGGAGGES an Junio an the zimmspin clan are probably going to get a reality show an such from there blatant hatred of those they consider sub human..
    Except the odd tame one they can get to act White?

    You know like those condescending khunts that feed dogs at the table with cakes that are poisoning them an say ah

    Look he thinks he s people.

    Martin Luther King an the thousads whom lost there lifes to hangings
    Shootings being dragged alive chined to thr back of a truck

    Students of all racesgunned down .
    Jewish white kids an ther black friends murdered by L E
    On there way to some rally ooooooor the woman Doris Parls Rosie Parks whom wouldn’t sit at the back.

    All thease people are shamed by the attitude an minset in MERICA TODAY


    Whats next on the Agenda Aphatheid?

    Beccause I will tell you one Black Man Celebrateing the unjust unhuman unconsiouable verdict returned by those RACEIST BITCHES

    Louis Fahrakhan.



    I honestly hear you guys saying boycott Florida ya da ya da da

    Am thinking HELL NO

    Boycott America like we did to South Africa when they were blatant racists

    Kick America out of Sports Olympics word cup boycott American Produce an tell there Polititians your not welcome when your running such a blatantly unjust sytem that imprison AA at a higher rate then any other race

    Also convict at a higher rate

    An also aquit any white person that murders A Black person at a higher rate.

    So don’t scape goat foggage he didn’t appear out of thin air nor in a non air vacuum.

    If your an Aerican an you want to real blame some one

    Loook in the Mirror

    As your either part of the problem or the way to a solution.

    If it is just a few biggots then why do they hold sway?

    Is it then a case of so many so mant many masses of good people in Merica.
    Liberal thoughfull people decent people

    Many Many of you I care for an feel kinship with
    An yet is it trueley the case that
    Its only Florida an then not all Floridans only a small present .

    But then no people say its Texas an Arizona An N ey Y ork an on an on

    But always just a few rotten apples blah blah.

    Well for this to be true then in the words of
    Paraphrace Winston Churchill.

    Never have so many stood by .
    An let so few ruin an damnation the soul of a country so much that not only di its enemys despise it.

    So do many of its allies as I don’t think Merica has any true friends
    With its holier than hough gretest country on earth shyte.


    So either all you wonderfull people are on drugs or summpin.

    But I just don’t get what your deal is?


    • colin black says:

      How can you even laughingly claim to be the greatest county blah blah home of the brave an free.

      Dint you kill all the BRAVES?

      You don’t even provide health care .
      Not for the poor not for any one.
      You fall an injure yourself break a leg ect.

      Got no med care insurance shucks sucks to be you.

      France has the best health cares sytem in the world.
      The UK has the N H sevice available to everyone even tourists whom injure themselves on vacation.

      Americas welfare system is also a joke practicly non existant an demeaning with food staps set to embarrass people in to shame an deter them from seeking help.

      Everything in Merica is run by an for green dollar green

      That’s why you have in GOD we trust on your monet.


      An Amirica is a corpstate not ther home of the free.

      Nothing is free in America except a smug idiot raceist foggage but hey he only shot a Blahk kid think of the saveings in food stamps.

      • sadlyyes says:

        Colin you are correct,i am shamed by my country,when i go to all the lovely places ,you and i adore,Scotland,India,France,Italy i tell people i am Canadian,i really wish i were!

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Gosh, Colin, judge much?
        On the up side, I recycle, feed the poor in my neighborhood, have my own vegetable garden, shop mostly at the thrift store and generally try to be helpful to others.
        I’m praying that I’ll move closer to the Perfect Bar when I grow up.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree too.

        Sometimes telling people overseas that you’re American meets with some hostile looks, so I can see why people say they’re Canadian.

  111. RobertSF says:

    Odd… the comments are not sorted by time.

  112. RobertSF says:

    Where was the racism in this case? You’ll hear this over and over. Zimmerman wasn’t a racist. Black people had indeed burglarized the neighborhood. Here’s where the racism was.

    The racism was spread throughout America, among all the people who accepted without any question every single self-serving statement the white killer made, ignoring every inconsistency, lie, and logical impossibility, while simultaneously believing the most monstrous misrepresentations about the black victim.

    That’s where the racism was.

  113. sadlyyes says:

    prof ,you and Crane are the catz pajammas,just sayin! i love you both very much!…hate is poison,DeeDee will be getting her scholarship,which i suggested 2 weeks ago,and nasty Floriduh will be getting boycotted. I feel i have done my civic duty by suggesting these things as they came to me….this blog makes everyone here,and others not here,BETTER PEOPLE

  114. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    testing…..I just cleared all cookies and blocked.

    Now I am allowing some. I will see if this works

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      whew…….I sure don’t know much about computers…..I thought I had lost all of you and would not be able to post.LOL

  115. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    testing……I just cleared my computer of all cookies and now I can’t seem to post.

  116. You all have thoughtful comments says:


  117. believeinkarma says:

    I feel that one thing that is common in jury trials is the lack of critical thinking and what jurors responsibilities are when they deliberate and understanding jury instructions.

    This needs to be taught to all prospective jurors. Should have classes in high school. And when you are sitting in waiting room, good time for mini civic class.

    Jury education is seriously lacking in this country.

  118. Woow! says:

    They have Shelly dead to right lying on the recorded phone line and I bet she will walk too.

    • RobertSF says:

      Well, not necessarily. In her case, the victim was not a black man but the state itself. The state has no reason to pull its punches.

  119. RobertSF says:

    Did you hear about the drunk ex-Goldman Sachs employee who got punched and fell and hit his head on the sidewalk? He didn’t get up. He’s in critical condition.

    But we were expected to believe that Martin slammed Zimmerman’s head into the concrete twenty-five, thirty times, and all Zimmerman got were a couple of little cuts.

    I don’t blame Zimmerman for lying, and I don’t blame his lawyers for defending him. I blame the prosecution for mishandling the case. Their handling of their witness was inexcusable. Putting Zimmerman’s statements to police in front of the jury was inexcusable, and failing to develop a theory of the crime was inexcusable.

    Was BDLR’s high conviction record a function of going against overworked public defenders with no time and no resources? Is he really not that competent a prosecutor or did he throw the case?

    • Girlp says:

      Natasha Richardson live what 1 day, Gary Coleman never got up.

      • RobertSF says:

        Neither did Dr. Atkins, who also slipped and hit his head on the sidewalk. Zimmerman’s claim was the one thing that made me completely disbelieve him from the start.

        • MDH says:

          I survived a fall behind my garage where I really do not know how long I was out. All I do know is that there was a huge lump.

    • Woow! says:

      I hate that he is in the condition but he got exactly what he deserved with that racist BS.

      I remember my mother getting arrested when I was a little girl in Norwood, LA. She worked at a cafe (truck stop diner). It was closing time and my uncle let me go with him to pick her up from work. She was mopping the floor and this lady let her son run across where she was. My mom told him to be careful a couple of times and not to run where she was mopping before he slipped and hurt himself. He momother got mad because my mom said something her son and called mother called my mom a “N”. My mama bet the snot out of that lady. She had really long hair and some kind of way my mom wrapped it around her arm and held her head tight by the hair and pounded her with one of those big round salt/sugar/creme shakers (those of you old enough to remember the old fashioned ones). It looked when the wrestlers get someone in the corner on the ropes and punch them in the head over and over. I had never seen her so made before and never have after that day. That lady still walks on the other side of the street when she see my mom and both of them are in their 70s now.

      I remember that event like it was yesterday because the cops came and put her in the police car and I was crying for my mama. That was in 1968.

      • anita says:

        ~Woow I loved your story. I’m sure you’re proud of your Mom. I can see her beating that b—- up. that woman got what she deserved that day.

        • Woow! says:

          She has been teased about that for years. There goes muhammad A ____. Woow sugar ray ____ Remember when ___ whopped that women with a sugar shaker…teeeheee.

          • anita says:

            ~Woow now I’m LMAO . I’m telling my Mom your story, she has always loved stuff like this, when someone gets what coming to them. You know what I mean, I’m sure there weren’t serious injuries.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            your mom sounds like my kinda lady 🙂

    • Jun says:

      Obviously any defendant will lie and so will his or her lawyers

      No one wants to go to prison, man

      The state did a bad job, I agree

      I think the main part they lost was letting Omara control the judge, jury, and the media

      The state could have and should have fought harder

      • Woow! says:

        The presented enough information to convict GZ. The jurors were his supporters. They could have shown a video of the entire encounter and those women would have voted the same way.

        I am more angry at the three that changed their verdict instead of thinking for themselves.

    • believeinkarma says:

      I am an RN and have seen many many head wounds. saw several head hitting pavement/cement and you get stellar (star shape) laceration of several inches diameter.
      In my opinion, calling fogen’ s boo boos lacerations is a stretch.
      Also saw head injury where patient died and had small abrasion. But the difference was injury was on side of head where blood vessels to brain are.

    • Rachael says:

      Well weird shit does happen. My neighbor’s son fell out a 3-story window and landed on his back on the concrete. He stopped breathing, I gave him breaths, he was in ICU for a while, has some delay and walks weird, but lived through it.

  120. Woow! says:

    This is an interesting comment from Eric Holder

    “Zimmerman did not invoke Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law and ask for an immunity hearing before the trial, but the

    ***{jury that acquitted him received instructions that borrowed language from the statute,}***

    specifying that if “he was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force.”

  121. Woow! says:

    Professor or any attorney on board please provide your opinion on whether or not the DOJ will prosecute GZ for a hate crime? Why or why not? pretty please 🙂

  122. tonya B says:

    b37 WOW

  123. Tzar says:

    haven’t confirmed yet but

    ***ATTENTION*** In the wake of the killing Trayvon Martin … the company KOCH which manufactures paper products is paying for Zimmerman’s legal fees because they feel he had legal right to bare arms and shoot Trayvon. We are asking that people everywhere ban together with us and pass this information on and not purchase any of the following items because …your money will be paying for Zimmerman’s lawyer fees. Please do not purchase any of the following items: Angel soft toilet paper, Brawny paper towels, Dixie plates, bowls, napkins, cups; Mardi Gras napkins and towels; Quilted northern toilet paper; Soft and Gentle toilet paper; Sparkle napkins; Vanity fair napkins and Zero napkins. ***********PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD********

  124. disappointed says:

    lawn not law

  125. Drew says:

    What if I’m chilling on my lawn and someone steps on it and I don’t like it, I say, “Please get off my lawn” and the dude goes nuts and says, “You got a problem, homie?”, comes up to me yelling and threatening me. Calls me a cracker, even, to which I reply with my reasoning for the initial confrontation, “Hey I don’t want to fight, just don’t step all over my lawn.” He’s still mad. He throws me up against the wall and punches me and I even get a few scrapes that bleed a bit. He’s bigger and I’m starting to get a little scared, but instead of heading inside, locking the door, and calling the cops or whatever, I shoot him dead! I’d like to believe that in any state, what I did there is wrong! That’s one reason why this is so messed up.

    Yet, that’s not even close to what happened in the GZ case – indeed my actions in that scenario make a lot more sense than GZ’s.

    What if it’s the other way around? What if I act even worse than GZ? I’m walking, some guy yells from his porch something I perceive as lewd and/or racist stuff at my wife and kids. It wasn’t anything, but I misheard and I just lose it. Say I get really fuckin and go after the guy, maybe even land a punch or two – this time I’m bigger and he’s going to “lose”, but then he runs in the house and shoots me. Is he justified to kill even if I act like the biggest asshole on the planet and beat him up?

    Let’s say that I *actually* hit him, hadd even, and his face is far more injured than GZ’s non-existent b.s. Can he shoot me?

    Do you know how many fights I got in and lost badly as a kid? Like 6 against 1 type stuff. Not that I enjoyed being picked on, but now I feel like any schoolyard fight or threat can justifiably end in death with these laws.

    What if I’m a kid being followed or perceive I’m being followed – I used to “fantasize” about weird horror movie scenarios as a kid all the time while walking home late – and start cutting through lawns and yards, running from my threat. I’m sure it looks odd and maybe suspicious – why run unless I’m scared of being caught, right? – but also, why the fuck is that a reason to shoot someone? Especially considering you’re the one who *made them* start running and acting suspicious in the first place, you fat idiot.

    So what happened here? All Trayvon did was resist being followed. The defense admitted Fogen was the aggressor. It was not disputed. How did he get off?

    Was there a liar on the jury? A conspirator from the treehouse? Bad laws in Florida? Bad prosecutors?

    Or is it that when Trayvon, a black male, asked “Why are you following me?” – when he stopped acting like a “good” black – he revoked his right to not be shot in the chest?

    Sadly, as I unfortunately encounter friends and relatives who believe the self-defense lies, I have come to understand it’s the latter.

    • Woow! says:

      If you are black don’t shoot him b/c you will go to jail. Don’t fire a warning shot if are black b/c you will go to jail.

      If you are non-black, shot him and say you were afraid of your life. The wackos will praise you the cops will lie and destroy evidence for you, and no jury will convict you.

      Oh and you can make a lot of money from donations b/c you killed a thug up to no good.

    • disappointed says:

      Drew it sounds like Fogen is on your law. Stay safe. 🙂

      Trayvon did NOTHING wrong. The only thing anyone has on him is his color. People like that you need not associate with. I don’t and I have very good friends of all colors and nationalities.

      • Drew says:

        But fairly intelligent, “liberal” minded friends bought into the defense lies.

        How many times I’ve heard, “It’s he said / he said” or “they both acted without thinking”. From supposedly intelligent people.

        What happened here?

    • aussie says:

      Drew, if you’re just chillin’ on your lawn ARMED, I have to say…. don’t know what your deal is, sumptin’ wrong….

      THAT is what’s messed up. People getting about armed to the teeth because they feel shooting-dead is the only way to resolve minor disputes. CCW holders will fear for their lives on the slightest pretext, too, as they are paranoid to begin with, or they’d not be getting around armed.

  126. Woow! says:

    Juror B37 was unable/unwilling to or did not try to make an impartial decision. The feds should look into her to determine (prove) if she lied to get on that jury.

  127. Woow! says:

    I read Zimmerman has been offered million dollar book deals. Does the Son of Sam law apply to him? I know it is to prohibit convicted criminals from profiting from their crimes and although he was not convicted he should not be able to profit from it either.

    • No, the Son of Sam law does not apply to him.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I would not want to buy a mildewed book.

    • disappointed says:

      NO because he was found not guilty. He can write it but who will buy it? His followers are done with him. They got what they wanted now they are moving on. Fogen will amount to a zero just like he was before he took a life. I have zero respect for him. Many years ago not paying bills could get you locked up, maybe we should bring some of those laws back. That will be one way to get his slippery ass in the pokey. jmo

      • Girlp says:

        At least 60% or more people disagreed with the veridict I don’t believe anyone wants a book written by a paranoid psychopath.

    • ks says:

      Use social media to boycott any book and publisher who would publish it like was done for B37’s proposed book.

  128. diary73 says:

    Here is a better link. A man is arrested by an over zealous police officer who thinks he is drinking alcohol instead of an Arizona half and half.

  129. Woow! says:


    Pursuant to federal rules, could evidence of Zimmerman’s prior bad acts or character get admitted? Can the feds use his prior arrest records against him if there was no conviction?

  130. Woow! says:

    The former residents at The Retreat at Twin Lakes should come forward and tell what they know about CAC.

    If there is a federal trial, where would the trial be held and how would a jury get selected. I hope the feds would be more diligent vetting jurors than the state was.

  131. Two sides to a story says:

    B37 didn’t decide to not write a book. The agent she contacted rescinded the offer.

  132. Boyd says:

    if Dunn gets the right lawyer he may go free same way as Zimmerman. What a thoughtless despicable State.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      It did not load when I was at the link and clicked to play that video.


      Yesterday, I was reading the page here on Saturday night when I said good night and discovered the hug you sent me. Bless your heart, thank you.

    • diary73 says:

      I paused it and then pressed play again.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I will try that.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          It did not work again, and so I searched for it using its title.

          Here is the link directly to Youtube:

          Turns out, I saw that last May. Did you know that it has had over 1 million views? And it should! What is wrong with our society?? (That is a rhetorical question…..I actually know what is wrong.)

          • dianetrotter says:

            I would like for the guy with the tea to have asked for identification if the guys is a policeman. I was really annoyed with the tea guy but I don’t think he should have been arrested. The officer needed to provide more information. Sugar Honey Iced Tea (S**t) talking never helps.

  133. dianetrotter says:

    If someone else posted, I am sorry. Lester Chamberlain was attacked for dedicating People Get Ready to Trayvon Martin.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      I want to thank you so much for your two-sentence reply to a comment I wrote in the early hours of Sunday morning after Saturday nights verdict. You renewed my spirit and filled my sails again with purpose.

      I had been feeling beached and out of the waters of communing.
      I felt like a tearful, blob with the scorching sun bearing down upon me, wondering if I could reenter the cool, waters again and continue commenting with my fellow dolphin friends here.

      Your comment to me, telling how you were feeling because of my interaction with you and others was like you lifting me up and sliding me back into the ocean.

      For that, I love you and am very grateful. I am tearful as I write this.

      • dianetrotter says:

        Bless you YAHTC! I am praying for this to have a positive ending. I’m also communicating with my students on FB to work through it. Many of my non-AA students don’t understand the racial implications. I’m trying to take them there in love.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        Did you see this video that diary posted to go along with an article I posted?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Here is the article:

        For many of us as African-Americans, that night was a recurring nightmare driven to a horrific conclusion. It was the driving-while-black traffic stops, the “born suspect” joke that isn’t, the cost of being black in a nation that considers black the natural color of criminality.

        Some people — most of them white and on the furthest right of the political spectrum — will disagree. For them, Zimmerman is the victim here, a man who acted justifiably to defend himself. Race, they will say, did not enter the picture except afterward, when he was thrown to the mob because of it.

        And you wonder: What color is the sky on their world?

        A few years ago, What Would You Do?, an ABC-TV hidden-camera show, set up a situation where two actors posed as bike thieves in a public park, using bolt cutters and hack saws to cut a bike chain. The results were instructive. Over the course of an hour, a hundred people passed the white “thief” by with barely a glance. The black one had hardly gotten to work before a crowd of whites gathered around him, interrogating him, lecturing him, calling 911, even shooting cell phone video.

        Did race explain the disparity? “Not at all,” a white man who had harassed the black actor assured the cameras. “He could’ve been any color, it wouldn’t have mattered to me.” He doubtless believed what he said. For some of us, though, it has a tired, heard-before quality.

        It is, after all, the kind of thing some people always say when you complain of voter ID laws that will peel black voters off the rolls.

        Or when you condemn Republican presidential candidates for using “welfare” as a dog-whistle word of racial acrimony.

        Or when an unarmed boy is killed and the man who did the killing doesn’t even spend the night in jail.

        But the answer to the moral questions that killing raises is not mysterious to some of us. We know how America is. We know, for instance, that it regards black men as inherently criminal, jails them disproportionately because of that belief, then points to the fact that they are disproportionately jailed as proof of that belief. We know, in other words, that where people who look like Trayvon are concerned, America is a little nuts.

        So we know what stalked Trayvon down that street last year. We know what killed him. And we know why the people who were paid to give a damn about that, didn’t. You see, we have not the luxury of self-delusion. We have sons and grandsons and nephews, and we must teach them, too, how America is. They are cocky and invincible in the way boys always are.

        And they all look like Trayvon.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Yes, Tzar posted that under the last article.

      It is horrible and vile.

      I have been praying for Lester Chamberlain.

    • racerrodig says:

      If that bitch had scaled the stage and I was playing, she’d be wearing a Les Paul….or maybe a Paul Reed Smith right across the bridge of her nose.

      Sorry……..we don’t appreciate disturbing dedications to the victim and his family & friends, so I’ll meet force with force.

      Then I’ll sue her ass for wrecking my guitar….ya know, it being of sentimental value and all.

      • abbyj says:

        There it was: the ugly face of racism. She took that ugly face and twisted heart and climbed on the stage to act out her rage.

        • Woow! says:

          She attached a 71 year old man. I bet she would not have done that to a younger man.

          How come she was not charged with assault?

      • aussie says:

        Something odd there. Or they’ve cut the video wrong. If you watch it again, she moved from bottom right of the screen, very purposefully, it seems to me BEFORE he makes the announcement.

        Or he announced it before, not included in the video, then cut in afterwards?

        Just looked odd to me.

  134. Two sides to a story says:

    If true, stuff like this will be their undoing, karmically and in many other ways. The mountains will tremble.

  135. smokeegyrl says:

    The above is a fake website… please Fred… can you delete it.. i just researched it…

    [Mission accomplished :)]

  136. Arnwine said the call was convened at about 3:30 p.m. by Tom Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division of the United States Department of Justice, and included representatives from the FBI, and several federal prosecutors, she said. DOJ officials also said they would open a public email address so people could send in tips on the case.

    That email address, which is now in operation, is

  137. Two sides to a story says:

    Interesting – B37 is NOT going to write a book. One could wonder if it’s because she doesn’t want the Feds probing through her life – oops, too late!

    • gwynne says:

      had news on in the background, heard a talking head actually say it sounds like juror may not have been completely truthful in voir dire. If it’s proven, hope there are serious consequences.

  138. Woow! says:

    This has to be a joke.

  139. Sophia33 says:

    That source is not a reliable source. I don’t know who writes it, but they seem to want to incite instead of deliver news. The other day, they said that the DOJ had already filed charges against Zimmerman. That didn’t happen.

  140. Woow! says:

    Eric Holder is in Orlando today.

    • KateW says:


      • KateW says:

        Booo if not true

        • Malisha says:

          People should not start thinking Eric holder is the Great Hope, white OR black. He s first and foremost, and second through last as well, a politician an that is what Eric Holder is. He will do NOT what is best for justice or for the country or for the law; he will do as he pleases.

          • Malisha says:

            And remember the order of things: the demonstrations and petitions called for a federal investigation, so then Corey charged Fogen, so then we didn’t hear about any more demands in regard to the federal investigations. SILENCE for way way way too long. Where were all the interviews? Did the feds interview every member of the HOA and everyone who was in the HOA meeting on March 1, 2012? Naw, shucks. Did they interview every resident? Every police officer? Every employee of the police? Every EMT? Every person in the Black churches where Fogen claimed he advocated for Sherman Ware? Did they interview all the RTL residents? Emmanuel Burgess? Prior Chief of Police Tuohy? Sherman Ware himself? The “mentees” of the great white hope Fogenfibs? Did they interview the “investigator” who Fogen claimed told him that Trayvon Martin had attacked him because he was angry at him for calling the police? Hello Hello Hello? Did they interview the three AA kids who were stopped and interrogated by Fogen for WALKING IN BROAD DAYLIGHT in RTL? Did they inbterview the bathrobe lady? Did they interview Fogen’s landlord? His fellow students at the collelge that kicked hin out for the safety of the student body?

            They did next to nothing and when you called them to give them information they acted like you were violating their sacred lunch hour. They wanted no information; they collected next to zero information; they were little suck-up pawns giving Rick Scott the freedom he wanted to clear up this little mess Florida style.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I think you nailed it.

            It seems there wasn’t too much investigated except the utterances on the NEN call and a few casual checks with Fogen’s friends and associates.

          • Beverly says:

            But it doesn’t have to be this way. May we let this tragedy inform us all, see Mrs. Fulton as the gracious and strong voice/conscience that she is; great good can come from tragedy. And no, that may not come thru Holder, who knows. But something in stirring; that may be the gift of Trayvon and Rachel, maybe others.

          • Jasmine says:

            And they guy that he followed home. I really have no idea why he wasn’t called. They knew about him and it would show a pattern of him following people and questioning them.

          • roderick2012 says:


            Prior bad acts by a defendant can’t be used against them in criminal cases.

          • Eric says:

            roderick2012,do you post over at bookerrisng?

          • roderick2012 says:

            Yes, someone has to keep those delusional black conservatives as close to reality as possible.

          • Jasmine says:

            @Roderick2012 I don’t quite understand. I mean I do but that following shows how he is done the same thing over and over. It isn’t and wasn’t something that he was prosecuted for. And what about Trayvon? It was alluded to that he was part of the burglary even though it wasn’t even him. It was just hinted at by O’dummy and the last witness for Fogen.

          • roderick2012 says:

            Jasmine, O’Mara used dog whistles throughout his media campaign and it worked because neither Judge Lester nor Judge Nelson would issue a gag order, and that’s why I never believed that the entire production was anything but a show trial.

          • Malisha says:

            But pictures of plants in pots on their cell phones can — oh, sorry, I guess that was victims’ pictures, not defendants’ pictures, OK got it. As you were.

          • roderick2012 says:

            Malisha, right you are.

            It’s just a version of the sluts and nuts defense that lawyers defending rapists use.

          • chi1224 says:

            He won’t do shit. I’d bet a million dollars. I would loved to be proved wrong, but I highly doubt that will happen. This fucked up country is run by racists. That is the bottom line.

          • Malamiyya says:

            If your bet is a million to one, I’ll take it.

          • Xena says:

            The DOJ IS investigating. If they decide that GZ should be charged, they will contact him or his legal counsel. If he pleas not guilty, the U.S. Attorney goes before a grand jury for indictment. It’s their courtroom. They call their witnesses and present evidence. The accused has no right to be there and might not even be told when the Grand Jury convenes.

          • Eric says:

            I’m not being trying to funny, but what does it mean that the DOJ is investigating? It’s been well over a year. What could they possible find now that didn’t/couldn’t find last year? Maybe I’m being cynical, but I think this we’re “investigating” is to placate those that are angry at the verdict and will be dropped as soon as the furor dies down.

          • Tzar says:

            my thoughts too
            Nescis mi fili, quot parvo sarpentia mundus regnatur

          • amsterdam1234 says:

            DOJ put their investigation on hold, to not interfere with the State’s case. Nelson didn’t allow the subject of racial profiling to be entered as evidence, so we really don’t know what evidence they had, or how much they even tried to uncover the racial aspect of this case.

            I think they will prosecute if they think they have enough evidence to show racial animus.

          • Malisha says:

            There was enough evidence to show racial animus on 2/26/2012 before Fogen got out of his car.

          • amsterdam1234 says:

            I think they should have enough evidence, and they certainly have the jurisdiction to prosecute him. I also think there policy concerning successive prosecution, won’t be prohibitive.

            The question is, do they have the political will?

          • Malisha says:

            I think they should leave Fogen alone and prosecute SPD, Lee, Wolfinger, Singleton, Serino, probably a court clerk or bailiff, and a few (fewer than 100, that is) others. The evidence is available and the case would be clean.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Malisha, I agree with that assessment! The real problem is that unless they have a lot more “hard” evidence than we have seen so far, it is possible they will fail to get a grand jury to indict the real culprits in the case. If they do get charges filed, reach a court, can they get a jury to convict with the evidence we have seen at this point? I would like to think so, but in reality, I don’t think we will see it make it to trial because there is not enough evidence to make a good and winnable case…. IMO but IANAL!

          • roderick2012 says:

            @ crazy, the State had a lot of hard evidence it was their presentation that was lacking along with a bunch of racists white females that caused Piglet to walk.

          • Leisa says:

            I agree. I believe if they had done the job properly to begin with, Fogen would never have walked away from this…..
            They were only too willing to take this word for what occurred and they tied the hands of the SAO.

          • I wholeheartedly agree!

          • My agreement was in reply to Malisha’s comment on a clean case against the authorities.

          • concernedczen says:

            I think they should prosecute all of those folks AND Zimmerman.

          • I agree that there is a legally sufficient basis to prosecute, but I have no confidence in the DOJ’s willingness to prosecute.

            I lost all confidence in DOJ when they decided not to prosecute people for torture.

          • amsterdam1234 says:

            It will be a political decision, like the decision not to prosecute for torture was too. If it fits the agenda, I think they will. If it doesn’t they won’t. It doesn’t have a whole lot to do with justice. I agree with you there.

          • amsterdam1234 says:

            This reply was to Mason Blue.

          • roderick2012 says:

            Frederick Leatherman: I agree that there is a legally sufficient basis to prosecute, but I have no confidence in the DOJ’s willingness to prosecute.

            To paraphase Kanya West: Obama doesn’t care about black people unless it’s election time and he’s been reelected so we became invisible again after November 6, 2012.

            From Obama’s statement it’s unlikely that he would lift a finger to encourage Holder pursuit any charges against Piglet aka Chaz Bono.

          • Tee says:

            We live in a democracy not a dictatorship the president don’t create laws and he can’t bypass them either. You vote for a democratic president then turn around and vote for a republican house this is what you get, people who vote SYG laws into affect.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            And, the representation in the House is because of the grip provided by States’ Rights.

            The leadership of Florida (and other states) has a tight hold on its people. Because of gerrymandering, the people are not represented.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            This was a reply to Tee.

          • cielo62 says:

            roderick~ Why are you picking on Chaz Bono? Use zimmerman’s name if that who are you referring to. Otherwise, you have used one stereotype of a transsexual to vilify another person. I’m not cool with that.


          • roderick2012 says:

            cielo, you just had to find something about my post so you could have an excuse to communicate with me, right.

            Nice seeing you as fiesty as ever.

            Carry on!!

          • cielo62 says:

            roderick~ Hey, I was just wondering what you have against Chaz Bono? Personally I couldn’t care less for him, but I CERTAINLY have definite negative feelings and hurtful wishes for the fogen.

            Unfortunately I agree with your pessimism re: the DOJ. I will push, write and call, but I’m not holding my breath. ‘sigh’


          • Puck says:

            Nor am I cool with it. Chaz Bono was incredbly courageous in having video documented his transition. We can’t forget the T (or the B, for that matter) in LGBT rights. Gay and lesbian public figures’ coming out — especially in the past decade or so, when a gay actor like Zach Quinto or NPH, or other media figures such Thomas Roberts, Rachel Maddow, Jonathan Capehart, Steve Kornacki, Anderson Cooper, etc. can be open without losing their careers. (Ellen Degeneres’s coming out in 1997 ultimately led to ABC canceling her show, but boy has she come back! A lesbian hosting a daytime talk show with an audience of mainly straight women!)

            This, along with increased positive (or even neutral, not making a big deal of it) media portrayals of the normalcy of gays and lesbians, which essentially demystify them while dispelling old beliefs, and slowly but surely relegating animus closer and closer to the trash heap of history, have led to the majority of Americans supporting same-sex marriage. That this dramatic shift in opinion has occurred in the past decade or two can is clearly in part the result of coming out. That’s what Harvey Milk passionately believed:

            “Gay brothers and sisters,… You must come out. Come out… to your parents… I know that it is hard and will hurt them but think about how they will hurt you in the voting booth! Come out to your relatives… come out to your friends… if indeed they are your friends. Come out to your neighbors… to your fellow workers… to the people who work where you eat and shop… come out only to the people you know, and who know you. Not to anyone else. But once and for all, break down the myths, destroy the lies and distortions. For your sake. For their sake. For the sake of the youngsters…”

            While the overall struggle continues, now is the time for trans* people to do the same. (Indeed, much of gay and lesbian animosity towards and belittling of trans* people — especially among lesbians — has been suppanted by a new solidarity with them.) Chaz Bono’s very public transition, and our seeing how happy and well-adjusted he is, makes him one of the trailblazers of trans* rights.

          • Puck says:

            That reply was to cielo.

          • cielo62 says:

            Puck~ Yes, I’ve been amazed at the speed with which acceptance has come for the gay and lesbian community. Still some problems with the transgender, but that one is harder to understand. I think most of my co-workers know about me being gay, but I don’t discuss it. I think people see what they want to see.


          • Trained Observer says:

            @roderick2012 — What?

            Color me dense, but what does the “Piglet aka Chaz Bono” remark mean? Why malign anyone, much less Chaz, with a wierd (and I think inappropriate) link to a murderer like Fogen?
            I, personally, hope Holder comes after the entire Z family with whatever he can deploy.

          • roderick2012 says:

            Trained, get a sense of humor.

            Some people call George Fogen and I call him Piglet for obvious reasons.

            Anyway you can forget Holder doing anything because Obama is afraid to tackle the subject of race because he has conflicting emotions about the issue so don’t hold your breath.

          • Beverly says:

            I am not ready to rule it out. I heard the Tavis-West talk last night where they pointed out he did not talk about that subject in his speech b/c he didn’t want to over-shadow Holder….We’ll see; I think the push is to do something. Maybe that’s called hope.

          • roderick2012 says:

            Beverly, I have been right about this entire case from the beginning.

            My guess is that Governor Scott who is up for re-election next year did cave and had the investigation and ultimate indictment handed over to Angela Corey so it would quell not only the national outrage but also the international outrage of someone Barney Fife killing a child for no reason.

            Remember that Florida’s main industry is tourism and Scott could ill afford to sit idle and allow vigilantism to go unpunished.

            However after O’Mara started his smear campaign of Trayvon in the media public opinion changed and the Floridians who supported Zimmerman were also the people whose votes Governor Scott needs for re-election next year.

            If Scott doesn’t get a majority of the voters who support Zimmerman during next year’s August primary he won’t make it to the general election.

            That’s why the State threw this case.

          • cielo62 says:

            roderick~ I find no fault with your logic. I was hoping that MONEY would outweigh votes, but I guess not. NOW his state will lose tons of tourism. Not enough to bankrupt it but enough to sting. Scott is an idiot. Maybe BDLR’s award should be protested next week, or substituted with an Emmy for Best Deceiving Attorney In a Starring Role. That cocksucker had me fooled.


          • Tzar says:

            the nesting of comments is a bit out of whack

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Good Morning, or afternoon I suppose, to you Amsterdam.
            How is everything in the Netherlands? I find it always nice to read your thoughtful and “informed” comments here.
            Yah. 🙂

          • amsterdam1234 says:

            Good Morning or good afternoon Amsterdam time, to you Deborah. Let me return the compliment, I very much enjoy reading your contributions too. I guess things are fine in the Netherlands, but my heart and mind have been very much in the US this past year.
            I can’t tell you how important it has been for me, to share my anger and sadness about Trayvon’s murder with all of you on this blog. This case most certainly made into the headline news, here in the Netherlands. The idea that a civilian can roam the streets armed with a gun, and murder a teenager, and then is just allowed to go home, is absolutely incomprehensible for people here.

          • cielo62 says:

            amsterdam~ Believe me, it’s pretty incomprehensible to many people HERE as well. Disgusting.


          • amsterdam1234 says:

            I don’t know why my reply to you, ended up at the bottom of the comment section.
            But in case you didn’t see it, a very good morning to you, Deborah.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Yes, it does seem like the order of comments is a bit out of whack. meaning out of order. I noticed it yesterday too, but it just means we have to scroll up and down, which we have to do anyway.
            In any event, it is a good morning, so far. So far means only I’m awake and have my first cup of coffee.
            I’m glad that the whole world has been watching the trial and I imagine there is much outrage Out There as there is here.
            I know my country is in big trouble. I know we should be taking better care of each other and that the government is totally messed up, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. This is why I have enjoyed following the Zimmerman trial so closely. It was nice to get a singular focus on my brain for a bit. This case also is a convergence of many of our problems.
            Alas, all the other problems are still there too.
            But, I refuse to give up caring.

          • KateW says:

            That is the same thing OMara said. Omara also said the FBI said he was not a racist and he thinks nothing will come of it either. The things he has posted and said, the family member that says he is a racist, the former co worker who was harassed about his ethnicity and accent, the African American boys in that neighborhood who say they were targeted, the phone calls to NEN about suspicious Black men, even at one point calling the Police on a 7-8 year old?

            Perhaps nothing will come of it but I don’t know if people should just give up. 70+% of people in America and more if you include it globally thought the guy was guilty. The evidence was overwhelming, however, it is a travesty when supporters infiltrate a jury pool, bypass all of the evidence so that they can sway the outcome. The law says he should be held accountable for his actions and I feel they did not hold him accountable.

            It is now evidenced the jury was tainted given juror B37 interview. Where do people go from here? I don’t know but the DOJ should thoroughly look into it and I am sure those groups will continue to press and make sure they do.

          • cielo62 says:

            KateW~ I would HOPE that the DOJ would realize the importance of salvaging America’s HONOR after this sordid verdict has tainted our reputation internationally.


          • roderick2012 says:

            @ Eric, the feds aren’t going to do anything if I read Obama and Holder’s body language correctly.

            Obama’s BL seemed to be saying that he’s dissappointed to have found out that Trayvon wasn’t squeaky clean and that he would like to do more, but his hands are tied somehow.

            I guess Papa Zimmerman is god. I have no other explanation has that racist POS has Seminole County in his back pocket and a second term president scared.

          • Xena says:


            I’m not being trying to funny, but what does it mean that the DOJ is investigating?

            I’m not trying to be argumentative either, but I didn’t say “still” investigating. Your inclusion of “still” signifies ongoing. I said the DOJ “is” investigating. In case I wasn’t clear, it means that the DOJ suspended their investigation until the State’s case concluded. When I say “suspended” it doesn’t mean dismissed, ended, or closed.

            It’s been well over a year.

            The DOJ examines the statute of limitations for bringing charges. They have been known for conducting investigations for years until they get sufficient evidence to nail the coffin shut.

            What could they possible find now that didn’t/couldn’t find last year?

            Now that GZ has been found not guilty, there’s no telling what he’s saying to others. As well, there’s no telling what others are telling the feds that they didn’t tell previously because they were hoping GZ would be locked up for life.

          • type1juve says:

            What you said Malisha!

          • groans says:

            Yup. Lip service doesn’t cut it. Eric Holder hasn’t had the balls to do ANYTHING remarkable during his tenure so far. I don’t have any reason to believe he’ll start now.

            It’s all meaningless talk, as far as I’m concerned, until I see something announced or filed and vigorously pursued.

            After all: How’s all that “hopey” stuff worked out for us so far?

    • Rachael says:

      That is so beautiful. You know, if that asshole West would have done something like this instead of making fun of her – but then, she is so much smarter than he is anyway…

    • Girlp says:

      I’m happy for her…a nice oppertunity.

  141. Woow! says:

    I know Serino and Singleton have families and were trying to protect their jobs but both should be ashamed of themselves. How can they sleep at night. TM murder should haunt them for the rest of their lives.

    • Malisha says:

      Serino and Singleton have no problem lying to themselves because they have so much practice lying to others. I am especially ashamed of Serino.

    • abbyj says:

      They sold out in the worst way, Woow. Serino & Singleton have major atonement ahead of them. But, hey, they protected the SPD and their pensions.

  142. You all have thoughtful comments says:


    When I first went to the NAACP petition site using a link that a fellow poster provided at the start of the petition , the blank for my email address was not all ready filled in.

    Yet, today, when I clicked your NAACP link above to see how many people had signed, my email address appeared.

    Is that a Word Press thing where it goes through a RECORDED Word Press site and then on to NAACP?

  143. vickie s. votaw says:

    Professor, is this true, that the jury wasn’t instructed that if Z provoked Trayvon , he should be found guilty?, shouldn’t that warrant a new trial?

  144. Woow! says:

    Is it true Michael Dunn want W for his attorney? If that man get off the Gulf should sweep FL off and let it be an island far away from the rest of the country.

    • Jun says:

      Realistically, he could walk as well

      As stated in this trial, you do not need injuries to have a self defense claim, just that you “reasonably believed” there was a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm

      The problem and a difficult hurdle to get over is proving Dunn did not “reasonably believe” he was in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm because he could very well have been

      I do not know all the facts but I believe he may have been overcharged and depending on the jury, which is 12 for first degree murder, it may end with a hung jury

      • Woow! says:

        So any white man can shoot a black person and claim they thought their life was in danger and get away with murder?

        SYG is a legal hunting license to kill blacks. The Senator that wrote this law should be ashamed of himself. Regardless of how he intended for it to be interpreted, he should have know better.

        Ho do you feel Senator? Are you proud of yourself?

        • Endless Summer says:

          Marion Hammer:

          She is the former president of the NRA, and the author of the SYG law in FL. She states that the law uses very specific language.

          • Girlp says:

            She lied,some people feel threaten if someone looks at them the wrong way.

          • Jun says:

            I believe you are incorrect

            Read the statute

            The bottom line is, all you have to do is have “reasonable fear” and even if you are the aggressor, you have to prove “you made every reasonable alternative possible to retreat and if you have reasonable fear, you can use deadly force”

            The only negating factor is “unlawful activity and forcible felony”

            If Corey played it smart, she should have tried him on aggravated stalking first, and then went for negligent manslaughter

        • Jun says:

          Look, it’s not just black people, the fact remains, anyone can be killed and all the person has to prove, with even 1 % of evidence in a jury trial, that they reasonably feared of imminent danger of death and great bodily harm

          It’s the way the law was written, however, it does not help that there are stereotypes of blacks and latinos being menacing, so it would be easier to do this to a black or latino person

          It would also be easy to do it to a white male in their 20’s to 50’s because in many police profiles, white males are generally seen as gang bangers, pedophiles or serial killers

          For example, if someone shot Fogen, it would be a field day for a defense lawyer because:

          1) Fogen has a history of being violent and threatening to people

          2) Fogen has a gun at all times

          3) Someone could have no injuries at all and simply show, even 1% to a jury trial that they were scared that Fogen was gonna shoot them, which is imminent death and great bodily harm, and that Fogen was acting scary and menacing, and due to federal rules of courts, because of the 1%, the jury would all have to vote not guilty.

          It’s a stupidly written law, and I believe in self defense, but the law can be so easily abused.

      • Girlp says:

        “Reasonably belieed” is too broad way too subjective this law needs to go away. My state has this same identical law.

        • Girlp says:

          I was wrong it’s expanded but not to the extent of Florida law not even close, the law applies to your property, your business (building you are occupying) only it extends to your porch or say someone is attempting to break in your house.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I just don’t see him getting off. The case isn’t anywhere close to Fogen’s.

    • deetruth says:

      My sisters who live in southern GA keeping threatening to take a SUPERSIZED pair of scissors and cutting Fl off from the rest of the states.

  145. Elijah says:

    Having been raised in a family of Federal Prosecutors – let me assure you that their investigatory/subpoena powers at their disposal are immense. State can’t compare. An experienced Federal Prosecutor/Investigator can do almost anything – IMO GZ’s g-d would quake at a subpoena from the DOJ. This is of course if they take the case.

    What I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall as a few pasty Fed Lawyers in starched white shirts sweating in DC in mid July come up with legal arguments/strategy. There are scary brilliant lawyers chomping for a DOJ bite at this. Remember that it’s cases like this that make careers. Of course the defendant will also have a pick of top flight attorneys. This case has become a proxy case: However hard I’m heading out to feel some summer on my shoulders. Be well.

    • Woow! says:

      Top attorneys would not want to touch CAC if a federal trial is launched. MOM and W would actually have provide facts because pandering to the bigoted public would not work and they definitely would not be able to pull their theatrics in a federal court room.

      • Elijah says:

        It’s a very attractive case Woow! This investigation would run like an IRS audit. Clinical. Alright – headed to PV fro some waves – got to be reminded of the benevolent powerful forces at work that I can’t see at the moment.

      • Xena says:

        Don West was a federal defense attorney who left his job to represent GZ. West’s reputation was to enter plea bargains for defendants, his latest of which was a Jihad terrorist.

        We now know it was not the representation of O’Mara and West that ended in a verdict of not guilty for GZ, but rather Juror B37’s obstruction of justice.

    • Xena says:


      An experienced Federal Prosecutor/Investigator can do almost anything –


      I was privileged with knowing the late Sherman Skolnick. His investigative work led to prosecution of an Illinois governor, and launched then U.S. Attorney John Paul Steven’s career to the Supreme Court of the United States.

  146. smokeegyrl says:

    I have not uploaded my Adobe Master again… when I formatted my PC… so I can’t do my graphics… I wanted to do this one… so whoever is an artist. Whoever is an artist out there… Remember when the Killer said it was God’s Plan that he killed Trayvon…. so is it God’s Plan now that he is in hiding and fear of his life like Trayvon was of his? This whole situation came back in full circle. Karma. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” I so wanted to portray this in art version.. *sigh* but can’t. Not right now.

  147. Deborah Moore says:

    I’m still awaiting an email from White to confirm my request for an account.
    Maybe there server is busy because so many folks are setting up accounts for the first time.
    A good sign, maybe?

  148. Sabrina B. says:

    I posted excerpts from an article that explains the divide we are in right now as a country, as well as a link. Here:

    It must have gone into some query. Anyway, maybe the link will make it through for anyone who would link another opinion on the matter.

  149. MDH says:

    IMO, there is a case for racial profiling.

    A little bit about me. I have a degree in engineering physics and do work in technology such as target detection systems, vehicle controls and optical communications. IOW, understanding statistics to reach logical conclusion is what I do.

    Racial profiling is the same thing as applying a bias to data.

    To prove bias, one takes a random sample of a given population to determine the probability of detecting X, Y and Z.

    One then compares the detection systems reporting of X, Y and Z to see if the percentages of X, Y and Z are the same as the random sample.

    How does that apply to GZ.

    Well, the population of Sanford probably has a percentage of the population that is black.

    GZ has already conceded that walking in his community is the standard he applies to deem a person suspicious to the point of calling in to the police.

    That said, one merely needs to look at all of his reports and see if the percentage of blacks called in is far in excess of their percentage of the population.

    I think we all know the answer to that question.

    This shit has got to stop.

    Look at NYC, they stop and frisks people of color far in excess of their proportion to the population, yet the raw data {absolute probability} show that the whites frisked have a higher rate of contraband and guns.

    And do not fall for the “well blacks do X twice as much as whites argument. That is a failure to understand absolute probability vs. relative.

    Look at what GZ did to T.

    Sure, their are black burglars.

    Assume for arguments sake that 5/100 black boys in the Sanford area are burglars. { I think this rate is high, but will make my argument }. That would mean that any black male walking by GZ had a 95% probability of being innocent.

    So let me ask this:

    What is more probable, if GZ got out of his car and approached a black male with a loaded gun in the dark without stating who and why he is making the approach?

    Catching a burglar?

    The tragic death of an innocent human?

    • Jasmine says:

      Thank you for saying that. Anyone who has ever taken statistics should know that the numbers just don’t add up. There are more whites than blacks so the percentages of crime cannot ever compare because the number of people aren’t the same. I have never come up with a way to explain that in layman’s terms but you did just that.
      But as you said it isn’t as though whites don’t commit any crime but with authorities only looking in minorities directions, they won’t catch them at a high rate.

    • aussie says:

      You’re not looking at this from his point of view. He’s already called the cops on 95 that turned out to be NOT criminals. Therefore the next 5 will have to be…………

      • MDH says:

        That just about sums up a Zimbots math skills.

        If I flip a coin once, and it is heads, then I go all in with my life savings on tails for the next toss.

        And people wonder why a lot of Tea Party types have failed in business or have debt problems.

        A lack of rational thought or critical thinking combined with faith is a cons mans dream.

  150. abbyj says:

    Good morning, all. Hope everyone is hanging in as the pieces of this tragedy reform into any semblance of justice possible. There has been so much discussion about how “the system failed,” but that may not be the case. Maybe it worked exactly as it was intended to work for Americans of color.

    I’ve included a link to a remarkable article (in “CounterPunch”) just written by Robin D.G. Kelley, endowed professor of American History at UCLA. Kelley is from mixed parentage himself with a black father and mother from the West Indies, and his scholarship in race relations and race history in America has always been excellent.. . . . some of the best available.

    This link takes you to an article Kelley just wrote on Trayvon Martin about how “the system” worked exactly as it was supposed to work for blacks and browns of America: to criminalize them and deprive them of justice. I found the article sobering, thoughtful, and painfully true. Just scroll down about two inches, and you’ll see Kelley’s article on Trayvon:

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Thank you. I’ve also posted a link below by someone who discusses contemporary race relations. Similar narratives. His discusses where we are as a nation and brings up the challenge of a possible teachable moment.

      • abbyj says:

        Thank you, Sabrina. I’ll definitely take a look at it. Race relations in this country must be dealt with. The frustration and disenfranchisement that the minority community feels is palpable and real. This could be a radicalizing, teachable moment for the nation, and I hope that it is. It’s time for us to look at race in America, not have it sit like a muffled elephant in the midst of a murder trial set in motion by race hatred.

    • Girlp says:

      He told the truth it was not difficult to put Trayvon on trial and basically that’s what’s he saying. Travyon was guilty of being AA and walking home while AA.

      • abbyj says:

        GirlP, So true. Just being AA in America means that you are already guilty, no matter the charge. Just try to live, especially as an AA male, in America and every negative stereotype in the world comes down on you: criminal, thug, brute, thief. It doesn’t matter how decent a person you are, how educated you are. If you’re a black male in America, you’re already guilty.

    • LeaNder says:

      I love this passage:

      In short, it was Trayvon Martin, not George Zimmerman, who was put on trial. He was tried for the crimes he may have committed and the ones he would have committed had he lived past 17. He was tried for using lethal force against Zimmerman in the form of a sidewalk and his natural athleticism.

      The successful transformation of Zimmerman into the victim of black predatory violence was evident not only in the verdict but in the stunning Orwellian language defense lawyers Mark O’Mara and Don West employed in the post-verdict interview. West was incensed that anyone would have the audacity to even bring the case to trial—suggesting that no one needs to be held accountable for the killing of an unarmed teenager. When O’Mara was asked if he thought the verdict might have been different if his client had been black, he replied: “Things would have been different for George Zimmerman if he was black for this reason: he would never have been charged with a crime.” In other words, black men can go around killing indiscriminately with no fear of prosecution because there are no Civil Rights organizations pressing to hold them accountable.

      i had thought much about it how to put the mental acrobatics West and O’Mara use to turn matters upside down while claiming this is what others do to them. Yes, Orwellian, that is what it is.

      He made a mistake, he did put something into Trayvon’s mouth that Rachel told him, but still good and larger picture he paints how many black males killed in 2012 by police or vigilantes?

  151. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    it is through the NAACP also urging for the DOJ to press charges. thank you

  152. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    Professor can you add to the above petitions you can also text JUSTICE to 62227

  153. disappointed says:

    I realize closing arguments are not evidence BUT I find it interesting MOM said maybe fogen was following Trayvon, maybe not. Some words to that effect. Also MOM pretty much admitted to fogen following Trayvon because of the break ins and black men connection. To bad fogen did not care what black kid he shot, you think he would have actually wanted to kill the one committing the crimes. To bad he had no faith in the police department to do their job.
    Oh and I am tired of hearing about the black on black crime. WTF does that have to do with this case? What about the white on white crime? Movie theater, schools, shopping centers, child molesters and mommy’s killing their baby’s? What about that? Just cause fogen says he is afro-peruvian does not make it true. With that said though I like the fact he is afro peruvian. That means my race does not have to claim this baby killer!

    • Jun says:

      The problem is the state did not bring any other possible alternative to the injuries Fogen had or any possible timeline of theory to their case

      They did not propose any theory as to how the struggle went down, just that a struggle did occur and Fogen instigated and provoked the whole altercation

      The self defense law aka SYG says, you simply have to be in reasonable fear of imminent death, or if you are an aggressor, you were attacked to a point where you feared you were in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm

      The state should have proposed a theory that Fogen attacked himself to bolster a self defense claim as I believe he may have struck himself with his gun or flashlight

      The state completely failed in that aspect in the forensic of the struggle

      The only part that completely cuts out and negates a self defense claim is “unlawful activity or forcible felony” which is why I suggested they went with aggravated stalking

      However it does not matter much anyways because Corey was not in her town, so even if she filed that, I am not sure the way that county is run will help because Sanford is a fucking gong show

  154. kenteoth says:

    read this I hope it’s not true….he won’t get a dime…..

    • sparger says:

      looks like a satire. Zimmerman cant file any lawsuits about the actual case. His dumb ass would have to take the stand. That would not be a good thing.

    • aussie says:

      “crap satire” it says in the headline.

    • Girlp says:

      Freerepublic is a rightwing website probably satire.

    • Xena says:

      The only civil case pending, filed by GZ, is the one against NBC.

      GZ has no basis for a civil lawsuit against anyone. For one, he has no damages. The day after he killed Trayvon, he made the choice to be unemployed and homeless.

      • Sleuth says:


        But let us not forget about the one filed by the former security team against him, his wife, and his counsel.

        • Xena says:

          @Sleuth. Yes, but in that case GZ is a named defendant. Any case that he files would have him named as plaintiff.

          • Sleuth says:

            ~ Xena

            Yes, I heard about the lawsuit he filed against NBC. The network announces it during or after each broadcast. They have denied his false allegations.

            I was just pointing out the civil case filed AGAINST him by Associated Security Services (not sure of the exact name). I think they allege they owe them something like $27,000 for services rendered but unpaid. O’Dirty claims he expects to be paid by him for services rendered.

            I certainly won’t be loosing any sleep over his outstanding debts. Like you said, he made the choice to be unemployed and homeless. Yep, looks as though he’ll be living like Cain for a while.

          • Xena says:

            @Sleuth. GZ still owes his attorney who represented him in his case against Aames. The attorney said he is ill and not going after GZ, but the statute of limitations has not yet ran out yet, so we shall wait and see.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- oh wouldn’t that be delicious! Another lawsuit at GZs doorstep! I sure hope he goes for it!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

      • Jun says:

        NBC does not affect me although I do enjoy their programming, especially SNL

        But my research shows, bare with me because it’s all internet research, that truth would be the absolute defense in this case

        The simple fact of the matter is NBC did not change any of Fogen’s statements

        If I worked for NBC, and I edited it where it simply listed all of Fogen’s statements, he could not sue me, because for libel or slander, the statements must be false

        I dont know how in the first place Fogen can argue his statements were false when he 100% made them

        I watched the tape and they played one statement

        There was a pause

        and then the famous “he looks black”

        Also NBC would be innocent because of innocent dissemination

        Since NBC is the defendant and they can choose the venue, they should probably move the venue so it’s not in some meth head backwoods Florida court and it would actually be a reasonable decision and get the frivolous suit thrown out on summary judgement and that would be that

        I also thought about it and NBC could use all of the criminal case’s evidence against him as the defendant, to show that, Fogen has done many things throughout his life, where many people would think he is a racist psycho, so there is no way NBC could have made him look racist

        They could use all his 911 calls to show he always targeted black people as suspicious

        They could show he was a liar

        since NBC is the defendant, they can open all the doors on character evidence

        Since this is Fogen’s case, he has to prove and he has to testify

        I think the key for NBC is to choose the venue, so it’s not some backwoods Florida meth heads, and they can throw it out on summary judgement

        Or maybe there is something to those death threats Robbie The Racist keeps complaining about and if someone does shoot them both, it’s Florida and they would get acquitted because of the stand your ground law

        so if someone does attack and kill them, there’s no more need for a lawsuit

        also if there’s any validity to the federal charges, that may dismiss the NBC suit too

    • cielo62 says:

      Already debunked. 🙂


    • Nellie Nell says:

      I am outraged at this tramp B37 with her saying that she feels sorry for fogen and that he went too far when it came to Trayvon, yet she voted him not guilty AND welcomes him in her community to patrol! WTF

      • Vickis Smith says:

        Her reason was that GZ had now learned his lesson re carrying things too far.

        • kenteoth says:

          yet the rest of the jurors have distanced themselves from her because she told on them and revealed how this case could have ended in a hung jury or conviction……they only agreed on the non guilty verdict out of peer pressure and their racist attitudes……they know deep in their hearts they made the WRONG decision and they have to live what they have done……the defendant may not be in the state prison but the prison he has now is far worse because he has the WHOLE WORLD to worry about and not just Bubba the cell mate he would have had…..his being in hiding and the jury staying hidden is the beginning of JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON….he may have avoided jail but he cannot avoid the public eye and even those who support him will eventually turn on him like rabid animals……

    • Woow! says:

      Oh goody,

      Lets make this happen. Boycotts have always generated the results they sought to achieve.

      We need more celebrities to get on board. Love Stevie Wonder but we need more celebrities.

    • abbyj says:

      smokee, Very interesting article. Thank you. I was struck by the hysterical comment that such a boycott of Florida “would hurt all the African American workers there.” That one made me laugh. One would think that most AA residents in Florida are packing up to get the hell out, if they haven’t already. They know they’re walking targets. They know the laws of Florida won’t protect them. All those Florida businesses will have to find white workers who’ll work their fingers to the bone for minimum wage.

      No more Florida vacations, no more Florida products, no more conventions or meetings there.The world is full of beaches and oranges, elsewhere. Let Floridians generate their own economy themselves, by themselves. When the economic thumbscrews tighten down hard enough, maybe they’ll start cleaning up their corrupt judicial and election systems.

      It would be about time.

  155. LiveByTheGulf says:

    A portion of the law reads:
    “Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, a dangerous weapon, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person—”

    The defense pounded that it was self defense. In order for the DOJ to get involved, they would have to prove that fogen lied. Would have to prove that George approached Trayvon, started the fight, and killed Trayvon out of cold blood. That’s a high bar.

    We do have the Bill of Rights where people have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why were the Feds able to stand down Governor Wallace and make sure the black student could enter and attend the school. Why can’t people have the right to walk from a grocery store to their home without being asked “What are you doing here.”

    I take pictures of our listings. I used to go out alone and take pictures of vacant lots. After 911, things changed. Seemed that the right wingers were looking for terrorists everywhere. When I took pictures of a vacant lot plus the view of the golf course, a man quickly rode his golf cart over to me and asked something like “Why are you taking pictures of the golf course?” I wanted to say none of your business or walk away and ignore him. But I kinda knew that could escalate the situation.

    Another time I drove my old car out to take pictures of another lot. A homeowner looking really mad rushed out and I drove away. I really resented being treated as a potential terrorist.

    I’d like to have it that people cannot ask you what you are doing when you are doing nothing wrong. But now it doesn’t bother me as much when I go into a house to take pictures for a listing or our buyers. When someone comes up to ask me if I need any help or talks to me, I take advantage of the situation. I ask them, “Can you tell me something about this house.” In one case, the neighbor gave me a full tour pointing out everything that was wrong, how mold had been covered up by paint, and other details that would be of interest to our buyer.

    Sometimes Life’s A B****. If we can’t bring any justice to this case via the Feds or civil suit, then the next step is to bring changes in the law – what judges can rule in or out, SYG, etc to make the law fairer for all. Can the DOJ force changes to SYG law so we don’t have laws favoring shoot and kill and claim self-defense later.

    Or answer the question, if someone follows you – what rights do you have to avoid an encounter. I’d like to be that the one following has the responsibility for whatever ensues – because following would indicate starting the fight and the follower would be held responsible for the death of the pursued no matter what.

    • Jun says:

      No, the feds would have to prove the specific hate crime or civil rights violation, and Fogen would have to present a federal self defense claim for the federal trial if there is even one

      besides, it’s obviously not a self defense claim, he got away with murder

      I dont think any judgements in Florida stand up in federal court

      besides, who would take Florida serious if their judge and jury concludes that stalking, chasing, threatening, attacking and then killing a screaming yelping kid is not murder

      • Woow! says:

        That would not be hard to prove. Look at how many time he called the police on suspicious looking black people.

    • Xena says:

      @LiveByTheGulf. Your comment is long so I’d like to respond to something your wrote in the beginning.

      Would have to prove that George approached Trayvon, started the fight, and killed Trayvon out of cold blood. That’s a high bar.

      The first and second cannot be divided in the law. That is what Juror B37 decided to find GZ not guilty, but that is not the law.

      State prosecutors understand the law. They got a conviction of Trevor Dooley based on that same law. The person who claims self-defense cannot be the initial aggressor. GZ was the initial aggressor when he got out of his car to follow Trayvon.

      According to GZ’s story, it was Trayvon who couldn’t the gun, neither get away, because GZ had him pinned.

      • Danita says:

        But my problem with juror B37 from what I could stomach to hear was that she mentioned that foggen was in fear of great bodily harm,she believed that Rachel Jantel was uneducated and felt out of place and didnt want to be there. She also indicated she had a hard time understanding her and at that point she became unreliable. She said she believed foggen was not gulity because his injuries were so bad, but never felt like foggen shooting Trayvon was a bad thing….and now she wants a book deal comon….stealth juror for sure

      • willisnewton says:

        GZ was the initial aggressor when he chased TM off the roadway with his moving car just after saying these “axxholes always get away”. YOu can hear him put the car in gear.

        There are lots of other ways to prove this. It happened. RJ knows it and said so but no one listened and she doesnt know the legal implications.

  156. Woow! says:

    I don’t have a twitter or FB account. Those that do please pass along the Boycott Florida link. Get the word out.

    Power to the People!

  157. Girlp says:

    I wonder what is in those text messages and emails that was so damaging that it was prejudical? Did he have something to say about Trayvon did he say somthing about killing him because he’s AA?

    • Malisha says:

      Or, possibly, did he say that he solved the “pBa-lack” problem in RTL and now he should be hired to patrol there?

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      In one of the earlier hearings, I believe it was the first bond hearing, BdlR said something about a txt that had something to do with Tracy Martin iirc.

      • Malisha says:

        I’m guessing he referred to Trayvon’s father in a disgracefully racist and disdainful way. He was surely angered by the fact that the victim’s father did not “assume the position” of the guilty “shameful father of suspect” and simply accept Serino’s lies to him, that Trayvon circled the car, attacked Fogen, and tried to kill him. Someone like Fogen is so self-important and deluded that he thinks all people should be servile to him except those to whom he is servile. Slavemaster mentality.

      • Xena says:

        @amsterdam1234. It was at the first bond hearing.

        • amsterdam1234 says:

          Thanks Xena.

        • amsterdam1234 says:

          Rev. Sharpton and Tracy Martin, wonder what kind of nice things he had to say about them. I think the feds should have plenty to show animus.

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            Do the Feds already have those “prejudicial” phone records? Or is there danger of the evidence from this trial being destroyed before they finish their investigation?

          • amsterdam1234 says:

            They’d better not.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I need this mother f’er to pay for the crime of murder. He knows damn well that he murdered that kid. I sure hope that the DOJ file charges against him as I am sure there will be a conviction this time.

          Gosh, I hate his ass.

          Sorry and excuse my potty mouth, but I am so angry about how this all went down.

          Why the hell did West look like he knew that the verdict was in the defense favor before being read? Why was he reclined in the chair with that simple as smirk on his face? Why why why did this happen? How the hell does it happen? I am so confused because clearly fogen is a murderer and the evidence was pretty f’ing clear to me! That B37 should have never made it on the jury and explains why MOM was so determined to have her sit in!

          I pray that this mess comes to light and that he to has to answer for his actions!

    • Tzar says:

      allegedly he referred to “being on the lookout for “N” words” while doing the ride along
      the story was posted long ago
      never confirmed

      he also allegedly said some unflattering “racial” things about the victim’s father and Al Sharpton on his text messages

  158. Jun says:

    You know Florida is fucked if they actually concluded that that was Fogen screaming on that 911 tape

    what a bunch of idiots

    every criminal should move to Florida if they want to commit crime, especially Sanford

    • Malisha says:

      Those criminals do not HAVE to move to Florida, Jun.
      They live there. They vote there. They stink there.

      • Jun says:

        i honestly do not see this working out anywhere else, except in some corrupt ghettos

        at the same time, the state did not do a great job of proposing a theory to the crime or forensics on how the struggle went down and then show how the evidence lines up with the law

        simply crying “liar liar” does not mean much

        I think everyone agrees that Fogen instigated the whole situation, however, Omara was the only person who put through a theory of what happened and the state did not rebut that theory at all

        The state did not bother explaining away his injuries with any proposed theory

        I agree Fogen had injuries however the state did not propose any other alternative to Fogen’s story for his injuries

        People have shot themselves even to hide a crime or claim self defense

        Personally I dont feel Fogen was punched like 3 dozen times and his head slammed and my theory is he staged those injuries

        Now couple that with their crazy self defense law and their sunshine laws which gives wide leeway to say whatever you want while a trial is underway, every fact is twisted beyond reproach

        I agree with self defense but there should be some placement put into the negligence category and even Serino proposed Negligent Manslaughter on one of his drafts because Fogen’s negligent actions caused the whole altercation and in the same regard it takes into account how Martin felt scared and was defending himself

        • Nellie Nell says:

          Sadly, I do not think it would have mattered if fogen himself got in front of the court room and screamed as loud as he could that he murdered Trayvon, those racist women, namely B37, was determined to have him found not guilty. Those others that knew he was guilty should have stood their ground and let the jury hang!

          So pissed right now!

        • Danita says:

          I think the state would of had a better case if things were more chronological because they did talk alot about how the injuries could have taken place. But they should have placed the lies with evidence they had and told a story. Because the thing that stood out the most was that story of the emt who said his face was covered 45% with blood, why didnt he testify…..b/c he lied, where was galbreath.Also everytime the prosecution had a prop they allowed the defense to use it.There were many things pros didn’t drive home. I think they should have concentrated on the fact that if foggen got out of the car they could have created a story from there just like the defense did with the animation. They didn;t play their cards in order. The most important aspect was the fact that if foggen would have stayed in his vehicle,at that point concentrate on Trayvons right to protect himself something…..I know im no lawyer but it just seems like they could have put together some kinda story.

          • lurker says:

            I agree and have listened to a lot of Monday morning q-backing along the same ‘line. It was a risk to put Z’s stories all out and trust the jury to pick up the self serving progression of edits. In retrospect they would have been better to suggest a route down RTC, cutting between the townhomes–show the bushes where he scratched his face, the steep slope where he slid and likely hit his head as he went to intercept Trayvon, the place where he dropped his flashlight as he pulled his gun, how Trayvon resisted and they scuffled as they moved north. True, it is an invented scenario, but every bit has evidence to support it. And if the defense wanted that other invented story, then Z would have to tell it.

  159. Jun says:

    when they blacked out the jury, there was something fishy

    every other trial had a public jury

    • Tzar says:

      I was concerned when Omara asked for the jury to be hidden

      • truthseeker66 says:

        Tzar, I thought it odd that mom not only wanted anonymous jury, but that he wanted some witnesses to testify behind a screen. WTF!!!

      • Ambersus says:

        I agree. That was my first clue that something might be suspicious. He asked for this motion at the start of the trial possibly knowing they had seated a stealth juror which may have been B37. Hopefully time will tell if there is further investigations by the appropriate authorities.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The jury should have been visible. I at first thought this was okay for safety issues, but I suspect now it was done for stealth juror issues.

      • ay2z says:

        There’s a point.

        Whether purposeful or not, the faces not shown, would allow a stealth juror to remain unseen by those who could strip the mask.

  160. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  161. Woow! says:

    The feds have been investigating this for over a year. You would think they would have the information they needed to prosecute.

    At the beginning of the CAC trial it was reported the feds did not find CAC was a racist. Was that true of their investigation or was that just frivolous reporting?

    Would the Feds care about protecting SPD or FDLE or would they go for the jugular to prosecute?

    Would/could the Feds go aver SPD and/or FDLE for botched investigations. Could Sybrina and Tracey go after SPD for not following protocol and not investigating TM death?

    • Malisha says:

      There was a parade of people telling the FBI agents that THEY didn’t think Fogen was a racist. Their own backgrounds were not checked; likely they were all as racist as he is!

      I say give them psychometric tests and THEN interview them.

    • Girlp says:

      They stepped aside when the State took over and the FBI gave them what they had at the time and helped when the state requested. My understanding is that they are resuming the investigating into Zimmerman and the SPD investigation is ongoing.

  162. Boyd says:

    Seems to me the Prosecution was told they could only use the evidence from that day. While the defense could bring in anyone from any time and say anything.

    People are pissed everywhere. I know a few immigrants from El Salvador they are pissed too, they do not want someone coming after them for ‘looking suspicious’. I’ve been hearing 2 days of this at work all day as well.

  163. Tzar says:

    Carried over from previous thread

    Sleuth says:
    July 16, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    “Let no man pull you so low as to hate him.” ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Love is truly stronger than hate.

    With all due respect, I have contempt for and hold in contempt the people responsible for the death, misappropriation of justice and character lynching of Trayvon Martin. I am very comfortable with that and I don’t feel it is the same as hatred as I do not fear their ideology; indeed I find it inferior.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I agree Tzar – this issue is bigger than it appears to be on the surface.

      I also agree that to eradicate hatred and misunderstanding, we have to remove these from our own hearts first, but there is a time when hatred and misunderstanding in others needs to be met with firm disdain.

  164. Jun says:

    imagine if you were a pizza delivery to Fogen’s place

    you’d prolly get shot and killed and Fogen will put on another farce self defense claim and Omara will claim the pizza delivery guy was “a really bad thug who attacked Fogen out of nowhere”

    • aussie says:

      I’d believe a dispute over whether he should pay for them or not…………..

    • Girlp says:

      He called the police on the caterers which I assume he hired because he did not to pay them as well as his landlord so I would not be surprised if he shot the pizza delivery person at all…I’m serious he is seriously sick very sick but crazy like a fox as well…he’d probably say it was an accident because the pizza person did something threating.

      • believeinkarma says:

        Fogen could say He threatened me with a deadly weapon. ” That fat laden pizza will kill me. I was one bite away from a heart attack.”

  165. Boyd says:

    Professor, Where was JN’s gag order? She certainly knew what he was doing.

    • Woow! says:

      JN didn’t care.

      • Wanna says:

        JN made too many bad rulings to not be suspect. There were times she acted like a potted palm. Circuit judge just don’t allow the crap she did in this case.

        • Boyd says:

          Makes you wonder , if MOM was told JN was a pushover.

          Makes you wonder if the prosecution’s future working relationship with JN forced them to accept her rulings. They never fought as hard as MOM/West.

          I kept waiting for this tough JN to come along, never happened. The sequestration violation was just a stare.

          • PerfectlyImperfect says:

            MO’M and Judge Nelson go way back. He has known her for many years. He went the extra mile to say how well respected she is in an interview.

    • She denied 2 requests for a gag order and Judge Lester denied 1 request.

      • looneydoone says:

        Please check your yahoo e-mail

      • Beth says:

        Can a mock trial be arranged? A white/Hispanic 17 year old and a 28 year old black male. Using the actual transcripts and a few name changes recreate this trial. Many people who are following this case are very well connected and have deep pockets & might be able to help/contribute. Have an actual judge, jury and attorneys to argue this case and see if we have a different outcome.

        Don’t want a cheesy Lifetime movie but if we get a different verdict this mock trial should be made public.

        I am not going to hold my breath for the Federal Case. I have lost my faith with them.

        Why was Serino not challenged by the prosecution when he said he believed Zimmerman and didn’t feel charges should have been filed?

        Thank you for listening…..

  166. Woow! says:

    To many bigots live in Florida and they will never change their views. Hit them where it hurts and boycott that state. Take away their money, take away their power.

    How long before you think businesses would complain and lobby for a change to SYG.

    There are more of us than them. Let’s do something about Florida, stay away from that state. If you don’t live there do not travel there.

  167. gwynne says:

    I listened to B-37’s voir dire via you tube today. It’s quite interesting to compare that with her CNN television debut. She appears to be a dramatically different person in each of those situations. Hmmmm…..

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I haven’t gone back to listen but I do recall the same voice from voir dire and I have no doubt she spoke differently then. I find her claim with her tears and wavery voice that she didn’t want to be a juror very disingenous. If she didn’t want to be a juror in the case she could have easily answered a question on the jury questionaire in a way that would have dismissed her. Or have answered a question in voir dire in a way that caused her to be dismissed. She’s lying about that, and her motivations to come forward appear to be to want to put a nice little spin on letting Fogen walk. I bet she thinks the Fogen family are nice, upstanding Americans as well, and perhaps she’s even had contact with them.

  168. Jun says:

    there are also other sections of violating civil rights that can be used as well such as section 18 USC of 245

    The positive aspect of the federal case is that all Fogen will know is a blacked out picture and trial by ambush, and he wont have the advantage of an idiot jury like in this case

    (Hey guys that’s number 2 for Florida)

    • Eric says:

      Didn’t MOM try to fish info out of the state in regards to what the feds maybe planning? I believe that happened during the pre-trial hearings.

      • Jun says:

        The feds did not give them anything and even if they were going forward, they trial by ambush so they would never tell them truly any information anyways

        Blackout Movement

        • Malisha says:

          Jun, I wanted to draw your attention to something that Rachel Jeantel said to Piers Morgan: “Nigga means a male person, he could be Black, white, anything. It could be Chinese, they’d say Chine [hard to hear] nigga …” [There was laughter in the studio audience and I couldn’t catch every syllable.]


          • Jun says:


            That’s what I been telling people

            it’s just the way people talk

            some people dont like it but she got it right

            anyone or anything can be a “nigga”

            for example if were talking about tigers on a nature show, you can be like “those tigers, man those niggaz is fierce…”

            however I can see why some people may be offended but that is how kid’s talk in our generation

            since we live in a multicultural country, all our cultures influence each other, one way or another

          • dianetrotter says:

            And try as we might to stop kids from saying “Nigga,” it’s like trying to stop a runaway train.

          • Johnnie says:

            As is the word bitch. It is no longer just used toward women. It is universal. Zimmerman would be punk ass bitch (weak) as he is a man and could not beat a teenager in a fist fight (although I think Trayvon never laid a hand on him).

          • Vickis Smith says:

            Rachel explained that “nigga” wasn’t the same thing as ending the word in “er”- which is the insulting term. Language and slang aren’t static.

      • Girlp says:

        Yes he did and regarding their investigation of the SPD as well which BLDR said was ongoing.

      • Wanna says:

        MOM is cable TV troll.

  169. Woow! says:

    Boycott Florida!!!!!

  170. lsimon3321 says:

    I think you are correct about the stealth jurors and everything else you state but it seems to be this is organized racism at its lowest level. Nothing can or will be done about it. They got rid of the juror they saw as pro-TM and kept at least 2 pro-GZ jurors. I think unless it is proven that, for instance, it was F***ing Coons not Punks, the DOJ might not be able to do anything with it either besides pacify the people for another year while they investigate it. I think this and other instances is going to seriously result in civil disobedience to outright war. When you use the law against one section of the population repeatedly and viciously, at some point ppl don’t give up, they get frustrated, good and angry and there’ll be no stopping it. This is what the anarchist and masochistic racist want. Patience is a virtue but there is a limit.

    • Boyd says:

      Just declare it F’ing coons and prosecute. there is no s sounds on punks. it’s ‘unks’ he said ‘oons’

      Why did not the FBI expert testify about sounds?

    • Wanna says:

      It would be interesting to know how the circuit clerk selected who the juror noticed would be sent to and the order in which they would be questioned.

      • Boyd says:

        ignore my comment below, same as yours. I want to know every detail as Don West would want to know every detail.

    • Boyd says:

      I’d like to know how 2-3 CCW holders got on that Jury.

    • pat deadder says:

      Do you think the HOA paid out because the black people who fogen harassed came forward,You know the ones that actually owned homes there contrary to fogen who was a squatter.And why weren’t they witnesses at the trial.So maybe the DOJ can look into the settlement agreement.Can I ask can people from other countries sign petition.I mean we get lots of produce from Florida and many people go there for the winter.My friends cancelled their trip for Sept.This cost them 200 dollars.

      • gblock says:

        I think that the federal prosecution will need to examine the harassment issue more thoroughly, and that this is bigger than the “coon” vs. “punks” issue. BDLR downplayed the racial aspect of Fogen’s profiling – perhaps because many people dislike hearing about subtle evidence of racism, and he may have thought that emphasizing it might turn some jurors off to the rest of the prosecution’s argument. It is a very real aspect of this case. If the two robbers had been young white males, and Trayvon had been a white boy in a hoodie, would Fogen have gone after him in the same way? The answer is certainly no.

  171. Woow! says:

    Boycott Florida in its entirety. If there are any entertainers lurking her please do not perform in FL. Avoid the amusement parks, NBA games and other professional events. We need to get that out there.

    • cielo62 says:


      Here ya go! SHARE IT!


    • Jun says:

      Anyone would even half a brain would not go to that state, especially go to Stinkford Backwoods Sanford, Florida

      What a gong show of a county

    • Malisha says:

      NO vacations,
      NO conventions,
      NO retirement.
      NO events.
      Racist murderers walk the streets. BOYCOTT.

      • Jun says:

        why would any normal person visit there?

        if you scream for help, they will conclude it’s the murderer’s screams

      • Kimmi says:

        No orange juice!!

      • groans says:

        NO produce. (Buy local or CALIFORNIA produce!)

        Florida Products – Value in Dollars:

        Oranges $1.2 billion
        Sugarcane $551 million
        Bell Peppers $296 million
        Grapefruit $207 million
        Fresh Tomatoes $631 million
        Sweet Corn $189 million
        Snap Beans $135 million
        Squash $57 million
        Fresh Cucumbers $48 million
        Watermelons $113 million
        Tangerines $61 million

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        While I am more than devastated about this verdict and am praying so hard for Federal charges to be filed, and signing EVERY petition there is to sign, and hoping to find a way to do something pro-active when I get back on my college campus next month …. I have a question…

        I LIVE in Florida…. how do the boycotts affect the economy and the livelihoods of the monstrous masses of Florida residents that want GZ locked up forever? What do we do when the jobs go away? When the slow economic recovery that is nationwide is halted here in my state?

        I signed the boycott petition… I am that committed… but I am frightened too.

        I am frightened about the next Black Boy that crosses this killers path… I am frightened about the evenings that *I* might be out past dark with my college friends on a late night candy run….and some other CRAZY RACIST who has now essentially been given a license to kill decides he is “suspicious” of me… or one of my best friends who is a Black Girl… in a hoodie, in the dark, it might not be so easy to tell gender…and CRAZY RACISTS WITH A LICENSE TO KILL probably wont care if it is a boy OR a girl…. so long as the kill has the “right” color skin….

        • Two sides to a story says:

          I lived in AZ during some well-deserved boycotts aimed at the gov’t there. Don’t know what to tell you. It might make finding employment harder for some people, or cause some people to lose jobs or to close businesses. Or it might not affect you at all depending on what you do for a living. If you can freelance and do something online telecommuting that doesn’t depend on your local economy, so much the better.

          I salute you for helping a boycott of Florida even though you live there.

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            I’m a college student…. I’m not worried about a job for myself right this very moment… was thinking of the masses of Floridians who DO NOT support this verdict OR the killer…. was thinking of the thousands and thousands of Black families who live and work here and may not have the financial freedom to pick up and move and certainly can’t afford to be jobless… was thinking of lots of people besides myself…. now just praying that the Feds will prosecute and that my state and my friends survive this miscarriage of justice…

      • fauxmccoy says:

        my husband’s company, although a global operation, has it’s home office in lake mary. every month, we take money OUT of florida and give nothing back. there is nothing produced in florida that is not easily available to us from local sources. it’s a good feeling.

    • Boyd says:

      ditto, but honestly can SoBe be an exception?

  172. Woow! says:

    If the feds prosecute for murder the trial would be a different beast. MOM and W would have actually do some lawyering instead of the theatrics we witnessed.

    • MollyK says:

      Can the Feds prosecute for murder, or only for a hate crime? What are the possible penalties? I assume this would be a jury trial? Where would the jurors come from?

    • cielo62 says:

      Woow!~ AND it would NOT be held in KKK Headquarters, ie, Sanford FL.


    • DruDo says:

      I have a feeling federal prosecutors would wipe the floor with O’M and West. O’M and West think they’re big fish in that scummy little pond there and the feds may show them what little fish in a very big pond they actually are.

  173. Like you Professor, I do not believe the bar “is set very high” for a Federal prosecution. Something stinks to high heaven in Sanford with Taaffe knowing the jury count, with B37 convincing a juror that wanted to leave to stay. Three women went in their determined to let gz walk! How does a jury go from 1 2nd degree, 2 manslaughter and 3 not guilty to not guilty. This should have been a hung jury or a mistrial if the juror wasn’t pressured to stay. Once again, the federal government must step in. Thank God for the 10th Amendment!

    • Wanna says:

      How do know if juror B-29 was not given a vailed threat?

      • Wanna says:

        oops, How do we know..

      • Woow! says:

        If she was she should come forward.

        • bettykath says:

          I agree but she has 8 Black/Hispanic children. How does she protect them all?

          • roderick2012 says:

            bettykath: I agree but she has 8 Black/Hispanic children. How does she protect them all?

            That juror is herself Black Hispanic but that doesn’t mean that her children are.

            Their father or fathers could be white or black or all of them may not have the same father.

            Honestly I believe that three witches manipulated her subtly and strong-armed her into finally agreeing with them and their not guilty verdict.

            I can only imagine how they used her being a CNA against her and the number of children she had to make her feel less than and when they decided to deliberate late on Saturday I can imagine they started talking about how much she probably missed her children and how she couldn’t wait to get home and see them and that’s how they manipulated her into joining them into acquitting Piglet.

            I wonder if any of her older children specifically the 20 y/o is giving her hell for agreeing to this pathetic verdict.

          • bettykath says:

            Or their Black father may have been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan or some other place.

      • Sleuth says:

        ~ Wanna

        The question that’s been on mind is do we really know for sure what her ethnicity is? The media has sent out conflicting reports about her ethnic/racial origins.

        Hopefully, IF she ever comes forward, we will have a better idea.

        • crazy1946 says:

          Why does it even matter what her race is? She voted not guilty, do you think she would have voted differently if she had blue eyes and blonde hair? We can only assume we know the truth about what went on in that room with those six jurors, but none of us actually know for sure. We don’t know if the juror that was talking about writing a book was even telling the truth, we only assume she was because that is what some of us want to hear… While it would be great to have the fed’s step in and file hate charges, all we can do at this stage is hope they do that. What are we doing as a group of concerned citizens to prevent what happened to Trayvon from happening to the next victim? I said the other day that I was going to start a personal boycott of anything involving the state of Florida, I went to the store yesterday for groceries, no produce from Florida in my cart, nothing that was processed by any company based in Florida in my cart. Vacation will not be to any southern state this year, going to the NW instead! The only way you will get the attention of the politicians and leaders in the state of Florida is to hit them where it hurts, their pocketbooks. I can’t make much of a difference alone, however we as a collective group will impact them more than you might think…. We need action and not just words….

          • Sleuth says:

            ~ crazy1946

            For the most part, I agree. I found it very interesting that the woman speaking with AC 360, who referred to herself as juror B37, would speak so soon after the verdict. Jury duty, yet alone being on a sequestered jury, is ever a holiday. It is very stressful, especially for criminal cases.

            I have not put too much credence into what she juror said. She was all over the place, speaking from both sides of her mouth. Just based on some of the things she said, her vote should have been guilty, at least for the manslaughter charge. I think the other women, if they so choose, can speak for themselves in terms of how they voted, and why.

            Boycotts are usually very effective. Stevie Wonder announced that he will not hold performances in Florida or any state that have SYG laws.

            It is my hope that all who support seeking justice for Trayvon on behalf of the Fulton/Martin family, will take an active role on some level in which they’re comfortable. Whether that be boycotting, participating in peaceful, non-violent protests, signing petitions, or making a donation to The Trayvon Martin Foundation.

    • Vickis Smith says:

      Re the 3 jurors that went from guilty to not guilty: if I heard B37 correctly, it was the jury instructions/definitions of M2/manslaughter that made (at least) the 3 believe that these charges didn’t fit. She claimed they wanted to follow the instructions.

      Did she even remember the jury was told to disregard the veteran witness who identified the scream as being GZ’s? This was a big issue for her- and it should have been a non-issue.

      But, again, it shows the prosecution’s focus should have been clearer.

      Could the prosecution have put forth case law that would have shown that no matter who was screaming and even if GZ were in fear for his life, that this would NOT rise to the legal theory of self-defense because of GZ’s inexcusable lack of judgment? That it was that lack of judgment that created behavior that led to what happened? Even this jury stated she thought him guilty of poor judgment. The problem is that the prosecution didn’t address this.

      Also, she felt that the animated version the defense put on was credible; I was genuinely horrified that the prosecution didn’t point out that the part where GZ reaches into his pocket was left out. It would have been a powerful point to make: that that was intentional because it would make a punch by Trayvon his right to stand his ground- it was a preemptive strike for self-defense. This was at the end of the trial and at least 3 of those jurors would have taken this seriously.

      And, again, this together with the argument that GZ’s thoughtless actions precipatated this- that he had followed far longer and had lied about it- would have been a powerful ending. Stating that in GZ’s own words, it showed that he didn’t seem to have any problem pulling his gun, aiming and shooting. The idea would be to show that GZ had no right to claim self-defense, even if he were defending himself. He put himself and Trayvon in this position and was criminally responsible for Trayvon’s death.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The jury seems to have been seriously deficient in their understanding of the evidence and the testimony and could not possibly have brought everything into focus in 16 hours.

        There should really be a mistrial, but if the Feds can do anything at all, perhaps that would be even better.

  174. Rachael says:

    And you can bet, unless he is stopped, he WILL kill again. Not only does he now think he has a free ticket to do so, he is more paranoid than ever. I mean I believe if some little old lady was lost and came up behind him to ask for directions…

    The problem is, it isn’t just him, it is a whole mindset. Look at that outhouse, they made so much fun of us about him getting out of the car, yet even the jury said they pretty unanimously believe he was guilty of stupidity that night and shouldn’t have gotten out to begin with.

    There are just some really stupid, stupid, stupid people out there, and it is perfectly legal for them to be stupid. And do stupid things.

    • Woow! says:

      He is not that stupid. If there was a next time (and I hope there is not), he would not go before the state court but a family court.

      • Rachael says:

        You don’t think he is that stupid? Does he have his gun back? Does he think he needs it now more than ever?

        Yes, he IS that stupid.

        • MDH says:

          The 9-11 tape convinced me he is nuttier than a fruit cake the first time I heard it.

        • believeinkarma says:

          As junior now says ” fogen is afraid of some nut doing vigilante justice”, smfh that is what he did. I picture a dog chasing his tail. Of course dog has knuckle bandages on head with fogen face.

    • Wanna says:

      I agree. Stupid is as stupid does.

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t think he acted from stupidity; he was hunting. He’d have preferred to blow Trayvon away from INSIDE the car but if he had to hunt him down and bring him in (by the time his buddy Tim Smith showed up to witness it and give him the citizen-hero award), so be it.

      • Wanna says:

        Trust me, he will do something stupid like OJ it is just a matter of time.

      • Sleuth says:

        ~ Malisha

        I agree. During the trial I noticed how he was focused on the pictures that were being shown of Trayvon. It gave me the impression he might be saying to himself (or eventually to his close circle) “Wow, look at my trophy, finally got myself a coon/goon/punk”.

        And during the walk through video when he told Serino, Singleton, and Erwin, so matter of factly, and so non-chalantly, “I just shot him”, as if it was no big deal.

        There is no doubt in my mind, he knew exactly what he was doing.

    • Girlp says:

      Not everyone should have a gun and a person as sick as Zimmerman should not have any access to a gun not even a hunting rifle. He is fixated on young Black males even childern. I watched his reaction to Javhris if he could have he would have jumped out of his chair and arrested him for stating his name, that Tracy and Sabrina are his parents, that he and Trayvon lived together with Sabrina, his educatinal level and that he now believes Trayvon was the one screaming. His paronoia was evident and it appears he was on medication. I really believe he will do this again and I’m praying I’m wrong.

      • Xena says:

        @Girlp. Did you see how GZ looked at Chad? You would have thought he was undressing him with his eyes.

        • Girlp says:

          It was scary the way he looked at Chad and at Javahris…he is obsessed with young Black males.

          • Xena says:

            @Girlp. There was lust in GZ’s eyes for Chad. There was also a woman witness, (I think Manalo) who was so uncomfortable with his stares that she adjusted her blouse. Had the camera panned more on GZ during witness testimony, we would no doubt have seen more of his lustful stares.

          • Leslie says:

            I saw him too..he looked like a bloodthirsty vampire, smh.

          • racerrodig says:

            He doesn’t even look at SheLie that way…….did I just say that ?

      • deetruth says:

        I am assuming that he’ll get his gun and concealed carry permit back, even though the state of Fl knows that he takes a variety of meds for his mental health issue. Given the fact that he is more scared/paranoid than ever, and all the Zimmermans have declared themselves victims, I think that George is now far, far more dangerous than ever.

    • Vickis Smith says:


      After his walk-through explanation re street identification, I doubt if even a little old lady would ask GZ for directions…

  175. cielo62 says:

    SEVERAL MORE PETITIONS INCLUDE: Credo, Change.Org, and MoveOn.Org. There are MANY since our country is in a moral outrage! I expect to see MORE than the original 2.3 million people roar this time!

  176. Sophia33 says:

    Fourth again?

  177. kenteoth says:

    I was not happy when the verdict was read but you know GOD works in mysterious ways…..maybe Trayvon’s justice was delayed so that even more people can be held accountable for not only his death but the bad treatment of black people in that city and they need to fire many of those people in the police department as well as other people who are involved in the INJUSTICE system in that city….and they need to reverse the curse on the black woman who got 20 years….true she should not have been near the husband but self defense is self defense….
    a few seconds ago

    • Rachael says:

      Maybe so, because as I said below, it isn’t just GZ, it is a whole lot of people who think like him and they ALL need to know that you cannot just decide someone is bad because you don’t like how they look.

    • Girlp says:

      Agree, this needed to come out and it is a shame this woman gets 20years for firing a warning shot, she feared her husband who admitted to not only beating her but beating his past girlfriends and he was so proud of himself.

    • bettykath says:

      kenteoth, It’s not that she was near her husband but that he was near her. She had a restraining order to keep him away and he didn’t. He was in violation of the law. AC decided that b/c there were children in the house that she endangered them. If she were white, she would have been protecting her children.

    • abbyj says:

      Amen on both points, Ken. 100%