Jury has a question about manslaughter

Saturday, July 13, 2013

Good evening:

A jury of 6 women, 5 of them mothers, sent out a question just before the dinner hour stating that they have a question about manslaughter.

After conferring with counsel, Judge Nelson sent them a note asking for a more specific question.

We await their response.

Meanwhile, the jury ordered dinner sent in, so they are planning on continuing to deliberate.

I provide a link to livestream coverage in case the jury reaches a verdict or sends out a question.


872 Responses to Jury has a question about manslaughter

  1. smokeegyrl says:

    I went to the Denver Rally…. lawdy they was fired up about the no guilty plea… my fam fam was there… he is a preacher… they collected almost $1700. Here is a pic.

  2. mgs710 says:

    Tayvon’s brother, Jahvaris Fulton, said simply tweated: “Et tu America?”

    How very appropriate.


  3. mgs710 says:

    I’m keeping my hoodie up.

  4. mgs710 says:

    John Goode is a coward and some of the blame for TM’s death should be placed on him.

  5. YQ says:

    This hurts, but I’m sticking with this blog. I learned a lot about the law on here and I’m looking forward to the next case. I’m under the impression that the verdict was aready in when the jury was seated, and that isn’t a good thing. Good judgement would have came from experience, and experience would have came from bad judgement. Those jurors had neither. They just might see, though… but even then, they won’t understand.

    Professor, I understand your travels now and why you decided to opt out. The law is too imperfect for all those perfect words. You are doing good here, and the words you put up to bring justice for Trayvon were the most perfect anyone can write out.

    What I got from this whole thing is that our children are being systematically killed off by neglect of others. Not just AAs, all of the worlds children. Can we do better or do we care at all to try?

  6. ZCBest says:

    Good night friends. Heartbroken.

  7. sadlyyes says:

    i am so sorry to everybody here who,hoped and prayed as i did.I left fl 7 years ago,do not miss it at all.wanna know about Fl…look who is their governor…..corrupt nasty place,sorry for all you that still live there.as Justice Brandeis said…..SUNSHINE is the best disenfectant,clean up that cesspol
    GOOD NITE to all you GOOD PEOPLE,because you are,and deserved better…we all do

  8. uhoh says:

    such a gut punch feeling right now.

  9. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    I NEVER had any faith in America’s justice system for black people before this trial. The verdict of not guilty just reinforced my belief.

  10. type1juve says:

    Michael Vick goes to jail for dog fighting and this mofo goes free… only in America.

  11. anita says:

    fuck MOM & west both. i’m furious with myself. i fucking knew deep down this was probably gonna happen, but i couldn’t bear it. my loving husband tried to prepare me, a little. fuck those white bitches, 3 of them are same as me, white & 50’s. they can go fuck themselves.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      I knew it too. It’s apart of America’s history. This time, a lot of whites, Asians, Hispanics, Arabs, Iranians, Indians, people all over the world, etc get to see it with their own eyes what blacks have been saying all the time. The scales of lady justice are tipped no in favor of black people.

    • Romaine says:

      my ,oh my, oh my, Anita, I feel your pain, it will be all right baby girl….we all shall see the suffering of fogen and his clan….trust and believe….I ache as you do, have seen the corn planted and the fruit of its damnation…30 yrs to life not in prison at this moment; but it will come…I will never give up…this is the true faith of the AA heritage…to endure all suffering with the understanding and belief that injustice committed against us will receive its due punishment in its time..we have not survived this long, enduring the most unimaginable sufferings in this world in vain there is a reason for what we endure…our unity and belief in supporting one another…

      2 Chronicles 7:14

      King James Version (KJV)

      14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

      there is a healing that must be claimed within this land. It takes many, a village of not just one race but all races to come together as one, being on one accord, focusing on one mission, equally protecting one another against the evil that surrounds us all.

      It takes A Village to raise a child, teach a child, keep a child from harms way. There should never be a reason for a child to be killed, sexually abuse, physically abuse, but if we sincerely look at our world that we live in, children’s death and abuse is rampant world wide, and we just let it continue to be….Our babies are suffering and we are allowing it to happen each and everyday because it isnot personal to our immediate family. Seriously, this is a daily event in our world…not just in the US. When will we as parents truly step up and say enough is enough.

  12. bettykath says:

    Just wait til the jurors find out about the violence in fogen’s background. I just can’t imagine how they reached their verdict.

    • breelee says:

      I’d bet they already knew. Look how fogen’s “fans” blow his crimes off, but attack a normal teenager. We lost because the defense hand picked the jury, period.

  13. My heart is broken. My sons aren’t safe to walk the streets of America.

    • MichelleO says:

      Neither you, your sons, or any of the people in your family who are found alone while traveling down any street.

      • Romaine says:

        so true…being of the aa decent is a crime….shame on America….shame on the justice system…shame on those jurors, and judge nelson…George Zimmerman and his family…there is no way the jurors listened to the 911 tape viewed the real evidence..those 6 heffas just wanted to go home to their white husbands who probably beat them…lol i’m sorry but i’m so pissed right now…

    • ZCBest says:

      Ditto. I am holding my son tight right now.

  14. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    No justice for a black child.. the jurors should be ashamed.. I hope the jurors reap what they sow.. thank you to everyone who gave a damn about a black kid trying to make it home… I will never watch another trial , I no longer have faith in the justice system.. i’m tired now . Good bye everyone I have nothing left

    • breelee says:

      I said never after that biotch casey got off, I wish I had listened to myself. Its too painful to watch the bigots, racists, awful horrid people, win again and again. If fogen hadn’t gotten off for his former crimes, sweet Trayvon would still be alive. There are those who skate through life, fogen is one of them. Not only that, but dumbasses send him $100,000’s of thousand of $$$. Only in this F’ed up country would that happen. PAID to kill kids…smdh

    • MedicineBear says:

      I’m right there with you.

  15. operacarla says:

    I’m devastated. Peace to the Martin/Fultun family. Emmett Till taught us nothing!!!!!!!

  16. MichelleO says:

    So sorry for the Fulton/Martin family and friends. So sorry for all of us who have stayed with this case for over one year. Thank you Professor Leatherman for this forum. I will now watch a movie and stay away from all news outlets and talking heads.

    Trayvon is resting in peace. The battle is for the rest of us.

  17. boyd says:

    They love their murderers down there.

  18. nocamo33 says:

    Feds need to come in with confirmation of the “F***ing Coons” statement. Prosecute him on violating Trayvon’s Civil Rights.

    • MichelleO says:

      Thank you for this forum, Professor Leatherman. You’ve been such a great help and support through all of this. Much thanks.

    • lady2soothe says:

      Professor and Crane… My sincere thanks for all the teachings and explanations you’ve provided. I know your hearts are broken at this miscarriage of Justice for Trayvon.

  19. Sophia33 says:

    You know! I am not calling for violence at this moment.

    However, I have to wonder if during the Civil Rights Era if we wouldn’t have gone the path of non-violence would we still be going through this? Nothing that has been done to us over 400 years in this country calls for non-violence. We have spoiled these people with this nonsense. They never deserved it. We are the only people expected to be nonviolent with people who are NOT nonviolent with us. We have been bamboozelled. How many generations are we expected to be nonviolent? HOW MANY! ANOTHER FUCKING 400 YEARS!!!

  20. Brandy says:

    The defense got there moneys worth with a jury consultant! If you have money you can get away with anything! especially in Florida! What will these female jurors tell their kids about what they just did??? SHAME ON THEM!!

  21. Yorazigo says:

    Bernie said this is the 2nd murder case he has lost out of (80?)

  22. ay2z says:

    Good night all.

  23. sparger says:

    When they interview the jurors. I am sure their excuse will be at the exact moment of the shot Fogen feared for his life. Nothing directly before or after mattered to them. They worked 16 hours to let that idiiot off.

  24. Shari/pensive says:


    What is he going to get away with next?

  25. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I’m angry with Jessie and Al. Why did you stay silent when you knew the trial was getting close. You all didn’t talk about it for one year after you were ordered to pull it by your bosses. You all bin to the powers to keep your paycheck coming in…

    You left Trayvon after obtaining and arrest. Unbelievable…

    • roderick2012 says:

      I’m angry with Jessie and Al. Why did you stay silent when you knew the trial was getting close.

      Because O’Mara cowed the media by suing NBC. That was when the media began overtly supporting the defense.

  26. Too painful, I was half prepared but expected the verdict on Monday. I got to say, I usually ask myself “what would the Devil want the result to be” and generally that’s the end result.

    • This blog is the most knowledgeable about this case. Lets do something about it. Make a detailed analysis with facts. Maybe someone with expertise can make a timeline chart and we can insert the exact times and locations within 10 second intervals and compare it to a second timeline chart where GZ makes claims as to where he was and what he was doing.

      • Nef05 says:

        It’s been done. Those specific tasks and many others(think whonoze/teeslaw Tchoupi(?) LLMPAPA and Trent) were started well back at the beginning of the case and added to, constantly. It’s the reason why we know so much of the evidence they didn’t use. We knew they had it, because WE had it.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Sure they could have used my timeline they should have put Gilbreath on the stand to explain it and Tchoupi’s fine work and played some of LLMPapa’s videos etc., it was hard evidence, it tells a story that cannot be controverted. They should have shown what gz had claimed and how his story changed as needed so many times. Omar would have looked foolish trying to compromise hard evidence.

          “Abbreviating” their case does not good at all in the face of their high burden! Yet they did and abandoned the critical facts and the needed explanation of why they led to ironclad conclusions. I’ve had an increase in people from all over the world pouring over my timeline. The number has swelled since the verdict to over 600 per day. I was amazed, I thought there would be no one interested any longer, I was dead wrong.

          I was so demoralized I almost deleted the site, I’m glad I didn’t. Instead maybe I’ll add even more as I come across it. I’m sure that should those jurors ever find my timeline they are going to be shocked all to hell. Don’t worry, it includes links to the work of the other contributors like ScreaminJ’s collection, Tchoupi and LLMPapa, I’ve even got a playlist of “The Best of LLMPapa” up there.

          Anyone who wants to know more, I’ve made my evidence pile a good place to start. It even has links to special blog posts worthy of note by posters on other blogs and this one. It’s quite a collection that shows very easily that this verdict should never have been what it is.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Here, take a look at my timeline here Funny thing is, after the verdict I’m getting more hits than I did during the trial, it’s up to over 600 views per day and they’re looking at all the documents, most especially the timeline.

  27. Yorazigo says:

    Bernie is angry. And so am I!

  28. Jeanette says:

    Rough quote from Woman Thou Art Loosed: Remember the day you found out the boogie man is real?

    That day is today and I’m simply outdone.

  29. boyd says:

    and for icing on the cake, we may never know who they are, they walk away with their hoods over their heads

    • roderick2012 says:

      hey walk away with their hoods over their heads

      Their names will be released eventually just like the names of the jurors from the Casey Anthony trial.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        They are internet savvy people and they know who they are. With the hue and cry being raised, I’m sure they are surfing the internet to see what the evidence really was and compare that to what they were told. It’s just human nature to be curious.

        I was shocked to see those timelines they were given, with less than ten items on them. Any real timeline had to have over 40 items on it.

        During closing arguments they’re talking about the 4 minutes, nothing about what was being done during the 3 minutes after the gunshot, before the police arrived.

        For example they were not told that from the start of the encounter to the gunshot only 70 seconds elapsed, with witnesses seeing various parts of it, there was less than 5 to 10 seconds for anything like what gz claimed to have happened, yet no one saw anything like that going on. The trial was some kind of sham trial, and we’re stuck with it.

        • Xena says:

          @Lonnie Starr. The trial was either a sham, or prosecutors were overly confident in the evidence they had. In the press conference, IIRC, it was Bernie who placed confidence in providing that there was no way Trayvon could see the gun, nor could GZ unholster it, the way he said that Trayvon was straddling him.

          Members of the jury share in having Trayvon’s blood on their hands just like GZ, but it doesn’t end there. All those witnesses who saw things they did not report also have Trayvon’s blood on their hands,such as Jeremy and the anonymous witness who said she saw GZ jump in front of Trayvon and push him.

          But then, maybe those witnesses, not trusting Florida’s judicial system, would not want to testify and see GZ acquitted anyway and then come after them.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’m pretty sure the prosecution knew about their high burden before hand. They should have locked down their story with a 40 point timeline, revealing just what the evidence shows in no uncertain terms.

            Just saying that gz could not reach his gun in that position, does little to nothing because he obviously drew it and fired. They needed to show that Trayvon could not have been a threat if he was in any other position.

            They accepted that it’s legal for gz to follow Trayvon while armed and not be required to identify himself, thus saying in effect that none of what gz did mattered, and Trayvon had no right to defend himself as a result of having been scared. It’s an “even if” argument that requires the alternatives be shown.

            They didn’t even cover the fact that when the shot was fired, gz was holding onto and pulling on Trayvon’s garments. If someone is beating you to death, you don’t hold onto them with one hand while you reach for your weapon with the other.

            The timeline establishes gz as a stalker, unless and until he identifies himself, as a student of law he knows that. But the prosecution did not bring that out. On and on, just hope and commonsense pleas, while the defense marches all over it, claiming that gz did nothing wrong that would have inspired any attack. Then the level of the evidence that Trayvon’s hands had no trace on them becomes inescapably relevant.

            The prosecution said things that we understood, because we were aware of the evidence and what it revealed. The jury had no such knowledge, they needed to be led through the entire investigation and evidence trails. That wasn’t done. They were being given snippets and drabs of it which they had no context to place. Like “these two sticks”, we knew they referred to Trayvon’s pristine hands, the jury would hardly understand that’s what they meant, and the prosecution did not elaborate.

            A killer has gone free and the law has revealed itself as ineffective!

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr. I agree with you about the prosecution not explaining the evidence. I wonder why they did not ask the ballistic witness what type of recoil the gun had if shot with one hand? While the prosecution apparently felt it necessary to rule out that Trayvon hit GZ’s head on concrete by depending on the lack of GZ’s DNA on Trayvon’s hand, they made no attempt to rule out that Trayvon neither hit GZ in the nose.

            Another thing is what GZ did not scream. Anyone and everyone I know who listened to the capture screams hears “I’m begging you” as the call connects. Not once did GZ allege screaming anything other than “help” and “help me.”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            You can also hear Trayvon saying “I don’t know’em” and gz saying other things, but maybe they didn’t listen to the tape or… Maybe they didn’t get a good copy? So many questions.

            Did you see Omar smiling while the jury was deliberating? Just sitting there smiling as if he already knew what the verdict would be.
            SMH. I was ready for the prosecution to wage a scorched earth battle, instead we got a campfire.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            All of us (individually) need to download and preserve the evidence, videos, audios onto personal thumb drives and cds and dvds from your site, LLMPapa so that the TRUTH will never be lost.

            I do not know how to download onto discs and thumb drives.

            A lot of us will need a special seminar here to learn how.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            and the work of Willis, Whonoze, tchoupi,et al

    • Nef05 says:

      Maybe the jury, but I see right under Corey’s hood, with her little black cocktail dress and pearls. To me BDLR seemed genuinely angry. I find that hard to reconcile with the facts he had available and didn’t use, or used so poorly that even some of us laypeople could see something was wrong. Either he’s a much better actor that I give him credit for, or his hands were tied and he’s pissed, but not pissed enough to mess up a high ranking attorneyship and many years vested pension and retirement.

      Guy and Mantei seemed genuinely hurt. Especially Mantei, his concern for Trayvon;s family was especially touching. Since all Ms. Corey seemed to want to do was get in front of the cameras and show off her Saturday night cocktail frock.

      • roderick2012 says:

        Nef05, who gives a damn whether the Prosecution cares about the family they dropped the ball.

        The defense used all of the resources available to them especially social media to vet the witnesses and destroy their credibility.

        Something that the State started during too late in the game.

        I mean if that black potential juror had been able to get onto the jury maybe she could have convinced them to understand racism, but she was eliminated because the defense used social media to discover that her pastor had written a letter supporting Trayvon.

        The State was a day late and a dollar short in this case.

        Also, Nef, I am a fan of astrology and noticed that LLMPapa made a video about some analysis you did of George Zimmerman’s chart.

        If you are interested maybe I can contact you outside of this blog.

  30. elle says:

    I told everyone Mantai was the hot one.

  31. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    If he had left Trayvon alone to go home, Trayvon would be with us today.

  32. kllypyn says:


  33. Jasmine says:

    My heart hurts for all those who have been denied justice. My heart is with Trayvon’s family. No safety for America’s Black children. So sorry we failed you Trayvon.

    • Yorazigo says:


      WE did not fail Trayvon, but those 6 women certainly did!

      • Jasmine says:

        We as a part of America failed him and every other child that has and will go through this very same thing. We are not protecting our children. At all. Full Stop! Period!

      • ladystclaire says:

        And so did the state of Florida. I read some where, that Angela Corey was not really going to seriously seek justice for this kid. That it was just done to prevent unrest in the state of Florida. Now I believe it.

        Where was all of the unseen evidence that they had, and why did they agree to seat an all white jury?

  34. Shame says:

    Zimmerman was just found not guilty on all charges.


  35. Some people wanted certain people banned on this blog because they felt offended when people voiced an opinion as to how the prosecution handled this case! Now you have your verdict. It’s quite clear that there is a war on young black males! I’m sick to my stomach. I can only hope that GZ in the end will get his!

    • roderick2012 says:

      Co-sign Lakiesha!!

      Some people didn’t want to hear the truth.

      • So true Roderick! Instead of being supportive, because we all had the same goal in mind-justice for Trayvon, certain people here actually had the nerve to call me and another member on this thread a troll because we expressed disdain for the way that the prosecution handled this case. Shit! With all of the videos that LLM Papa put together he could have put GZ away easily. I’ve been on another blog where all of us who were supporters of Tray, had to fend off the Zimmerphucks with all kinds of racial slurs directed at us whether we were black, white or another race.. We all stuck together because we all had the same common goal in mind. And, when one of us was discouraged, we could agree to disagree but we never call one another trolls or actually wrote to get us blocked or banned because we didn’t like what someone said. Furthermore, you had people on here posting how hot John Guy was because of how hot he looked! Who gives a phuck! how handsome he is. The prosecution gave this case away. I’ve been saying that ever since it first started. This is a travesty roderick. Nothing has changed and I doubt if it ever will, even with a black male as a president.

    • sadlyyes says:

      i dont think Abra ham Lincoln himself could have got a guilty verdict from these Cretins…look at the Anthony jury
      FL is supposed to be a family state,bring your kids to Disney world etc

      FLORIDA is not safe for KId Black or White as long as the gun slingers run it

    • Jun says:

      the state could have done a better job for sure, but also the jury instructions were really unfair too

      I also felt the state should have used a timeline and laid out what happened in their theory of the case

      That’s how another person got off because he claimed self defense and his lawyers used a timeline to explain everything

      and then lastly, there is reasonable doubt

      Even a small amount of doubt, the defense wins, those were the instructions

      I did not take offense… I felt Guy’s closing was missing a timeline and I felt the state should have used forensics, ballistics, and a timeline during the trial… the cross should have been better

      They did not really do enough

      Also, it’s Florida, and Omara pulled out the Baez playbook with high burden of proof issue

      Florida seems to be a perfect place to get away with crime because I dont see this working out in any other state

      I would not be surprised if Michael Dunn skates too

      All I can see is that the state could use a double jeopardy exception with a charge of aggravated stalking, and go after him about hiding funds and structuring, and that would be it

      But now I also see Shellie skating although she lied

      • concernedczen says:

        None of that matters. Once they sat 5 racist white women and a Hispanic without a backbone to stand up for what is right…GZ won.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Those women did not consider any of the evidence laid out before him. It should have only taken all of the killers lies to convict him. When those simple women were seated, they had already determined that they were going to let the killer go free.

  36. sadlyyes says:

    Fl is a tourism state…the NAACP should boycott Fl.everyone should, STATE OF SOCIPATHS including their theif of a governor
    horrible place,boycott Disney Universal

    hit em in the pocketbook,till there is REAL change

    • boyd says:

      I think that’s a good idea, like to see some sort of international boycott of Florida/Orlando They want people to bring kids for vacation but they will not protect them

    • ladystclaire says:

      Why did JN allow the defense to use that anamation but, she denied the state to use the voice experts.

    • Nef05 says:

      I agree. We started that with a small group of church members (I am not a member, but their book club meetings are open community events). I remember last year when they were starting to plan last summer’s retreat and I mentioned that they should consider somewhere other than Florida because Zimmerman hadn’t even been arrested (at that point). They went to Cedar Point instead, and had a great time.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I had always been careful to buy Florida orange juice. My family doesn’t need any juice.

  37. Thanks prosecutors. Special thanks to Mantei. Thanks Professor. Thank you fellow bloggers. Prayers to Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin. RIP Trayvon Benjamin Martin ~selah

  38. Romaine says:

    all I can do is shake my head in dismay…many of you said it is man law not the law of GOD…I now must accept what you stated as truth…my heart aches for the loss of Trayvo B. Martins life…we live in a sad world where a child can be murdered for simply walking home alone.

  39. Dee says:

    Blacks should not buy or look at any movies or anything of him or by him. He is rich enough off of Trayvon death.

    • Puck says:

      Once he loses the civil suit, he’ll be poor for the rest of his life.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Amen, but somehow that just does not seem like justice.

        People are saying that the state threw the case, but I just do not see it that way. Maybe I am naive and do not want to believe, I just don’t know.

        What I do know is that all of the killers lies alone spelled guilt and yet these women ignored all of that. His missing 2 minutes was ignored. Spreading the victims arms was ignored. “When I walked back to where he was” was ignored. The falling down at the T after the punch was ignored. The victim screaming for ‘help’ and ‘get off’ were ignored. The fact that he had flashlights was ignored. The timeline was ignored.

        They ignored every piece of evidence there was.

        Did they ever send out the specific question about the manslaughter charge?

    • anita says:

      excuse me i’m white , we will stand with you. never,ever anyone in my family or close circle would even think about it. sorry i don’t mean to come across mean or strong to you. i just want you to know not all white people are like that jury.

  40. RobUK says:

    Fogen admitted that he had Trayvon in a wrist lock and made sure he didn’t hit his own hand while he carefully aimed to put a hollow point bullet in Trayvon’s 17 year old heart. Why didn’t the prosecution emphasize that point and reiterate it over and over again to hammer it home? Why?! There’s no way fogen could carefully aim, if he was under attack at that moment. It’s murder.

    I will not be satisfied with manslaughter even if the bastard goes away for 30 years, because this was fucking murder and manslaughter makes it sound like it was an accident.

  41. Leisa says:

    Goodnight people. Can’t type through the tears and will try again tomorrow. Such pain in my soul…..

  42. ladystclaire says:

    This is not right and, I now believe the fix was in on the day charges were announced. Rev Al is now going to contact the DOJ. this is bull shit. Why did the state not unseal Fogen’s text messages and emails?

    This is not right!

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I told everyone from the beginning the fix was in.. Now all of those who didn’t believe… I wasn’t blowing hot air.. I know about racist Sanford and Florida.

      Corey set it up to create a riot to benefit the NWO and marshal law. This thing is bigger than what everyone thinks. The prosecution didn’t try to win.. Bernie you knew you were pretending and Guy was the only one I felt really tried.

      Corey this is your fault. And how in Gods name does Shellie Zimmerman get the same judge for her case. JN. Please people this is all corruption in the Florida justice system.

    • roderick2012 says:

      Why did the state not unseal Fogen’s text messages and emails?

      Because they wanted to keep them sealed so the DOJ could use them to file hate crime charges charges against George since the State intentionally threw the case.

  43. Endless Summer says:

    I am heartbroken. I believe that he planned the whole thing, and I also think he will do it again. We will see him back in the news before long.

    Shellie will get more punishment for lying than he does for killing.

    Thanks to all for the support here. I hope that the civil suit(s) are more successful.

  44. YQ says:

    This one hurt… 45 years later and nothing changed but the gas price, bruh. They just told the world what they think about AAs. Good luck with that!

  45. colin black says:

    night all ,,

    peace. out.

  46. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    So my children and grandchildren are safe but my friend’s children are not…….This is immoral.

    My children and grandchildren can make it home safely from a 7-11 but my friend’s children cannot?

    Until all of us who are white can change our skin color to black, African American children will not be safe.

  47. breelee says:

    Oh Mantei, could barely hold back tears, what a man. He is so worried about Trayvon’s parents.

  48. Ty Flair says:

    It hurts like hell! Thank you Professor and Thank you bloggers. Signing off forever.

  49. TheUsualSuspects says:

    Mantei looks like he’s going to cry. So, heartbroken.

    • MedicineBear says:

      It’s hard being an idealist believing in Justice and basic goodness in the human heart. That’s me, and it’s probably Mantei. I am crushed and hopeless. I knew it was bad, but I had faith and hope that Truth would speak to our humanity and healing would begin.

      It feels like the story of Lot looking for a few good souls to save them from destruction. I felt there would be at least 5 good souls on the jury of 6. There was not even one.

      I am crushed. I can see how Mantei would be. I have lost all faith and hope in humanity. I feel like such a fool for believing that there was basic goodness in these jurors hearts.

  50. Mary Davis says:

    I hope Trayvon’s family sue the hell out of all of them bastards.

  51. Nef05 says:

    I don’t want to hear it from Corey. Seriously, the failing of this case I place squarely on her team, and having read all the testimony and witness reports, I can fully state that OPINION!

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Corey was in on it. She has been and attorney long enough and Desherwitz stated they wasn’t going to prove it. She charged him with the wrong thing… and no correction was made.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        He was depraved but you keep out GZ attacked a police officer and restraining orders. Justice for Trayvon hell no…

    • Exactly, Nef! I am sick right now.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Please Professor, don’t start a thread with “gz found innocent” or anything like that, stick to less inflammatory titles, the fight is still ongoing, as it has been for the last 500 years.

        Obviously these jurors were either racists themselves, or simply confused and not given all of the evidence. I was shocked at those simple timelines we were shown. The simplest timeline should have had at least 30 to 40 events. Meanwhile the world is laughing at America’s system of “justice”, gz would have been convicted in any other nation on earth with far less evidence than we have.

        Do not think for a minute the world is not aware of America’s racism, from Abner Louima to Amamdu Diallo, to Rodney King and others, the world is well aware of what goes on here. The web is almost 40 years old and it’s all available to everyone everywhere. If Bush made us look like hypocrites living in fantasy land, this case goes a long way to confirm it.

        O’Mara has the gall to say that if Zimmerman were black he would never have been charged. I’m signing every petition that comes down the pike, it may not help but it sure can’t hurt.

  52. Yorazigo says:

    Mantel seems the most disappointed of them all.

  53. Malisha says:

    We have had too much faith in people, once again, unfortunately. The story is that if you want to go and commit a crime, all you have to do really is to choose to commit it against someone who has no power in our society. Then you will get all the help in the world.

    You will get money, help, backing, legal assistance (both unethical and unscrupulous), support, encouragement, and every kind of “BRAVO BRAVO” and if anybody wants to take you to task for it, they will be opposed by every means.

    BDLR did pull his punches so he could save the SPD. This was a cover-up with a blessing on it. Not only was the murderer freed, he was congratulated.

    We have had too much faith in our justice system and too much faith in our courts. Of course, since they are the only game in town, we could not do otherwise.

    I do not think there will be riots. The soul of the nation is, however, comatose. Soon to be dead. This is the post-Trayvon world.

    A man cannot be punished for marking, profiling, cursing, stalking and killing an unarmed innocent child.

    The phrase right after “no justice” is inevitably, “no peace.”

    • type1juve says:

      All I can say is you were right.

    • colin black says:

      Yup CAYLEE was a toddler not even 3 what rights did she have

      Her mother killed her an sindy an George Anthony enabled an covered for.

      An she had money slung at her heck the entire anthill mob

      live of CAYLEES BLOOD tiill the present day

      Now same way for foggagge to forage for pay because a CHILD HE DID SLAY

      An in Florida that’s ok in fact excellent PAY.


  54. MrSykes says:

    I am devastated. Absolutely devastated. I’m seriously considering leaving this God-forsaken country.

  55. sparger says:

    The really sad part is I am not surprised. I hoped and hoped they would do the right thing. I think I even talked myself into believing they would convict. Black boys are real scary.

  56. Leisa says:

    http://youtu.be/qswm7lHp7oY. Love this song…….

  57. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Boycott MSNBC, CNN and Fox news. Stop watching these people and giving them rating. Boycott don’t watch…

  58. towerflower says:

    I’m as upset as the rest of you. But please understand that Florida is my home……there are many good people here, remember the Martin family lives in Florida too. Please stop wishing us harm and the sea swallowing us up.

    • Yorazigo says:

      I live in Florida too. Please don’t include us in the bigoted and unjust population.

      • Brandy says:

        Please accept my apology, that was not my intention! I was referring to the racist people! Your right, i should not have lumped the whole state, i am just so very upset!

    • LeaNder says:

      tower, there were quite a few interesting people like you among the prospective jurors. But they took great pains to keep them out.

      But I was also pretty disappointed in how the prosecution put up the case. How many here expected some type of revelations during the trial? I haven’t seen much. I actually only saw one tiny bit of it in Guy’s closing argument. The fact that Fogen initially claimed to have seen Trayvon much higher up than Taaffe’s house. If we got his Singleton drawing before, I missed it. That was all there was, and it surely wasn’t enough. They dropped the club house videos, the fact that no car ever parked there. But maybe defense could have simply claimed he turned out the lights, who knows.

      take care towerflower, I am gone. It was fine to dream a little with folks here, but I guess now I will allow to reality to take over again.

  59. crazy1946 says:

    Justice was denied to Trayvon Martin! I am so angry right now, and my words can not be printed, so I will say no more tonight! It is not over!

  60. concernedczen says:

    It was coming ever since the day the jury was selected and there were no black people on it.

  61. Girlp says:

    I am heart broken.

  62. RastaGirl says:

    Not Guilty! Not guilty of anything at all… The tears will not stop flowing…. I’m totally speechless…

  63. TheUsualSuspects says:

    Guy and Mantei at Corey’s press conference look so hurt.

    • roderick2012 says:

      Are you kidding?

      They were in on it and they threw the case because they didn’t present half of the evidence they had.

      I see Bernie is in hiding.

      • Shari/pensive says:

        Thank you. I was watching the trial so confused as to what the strategy was. Where was all the evidence that they had been holding. Where were the damaging text messages the killer sent? Why did he keep apologizing and acting unsure??

    • LeaNder says:

      I don’t find a link. Suspect do you have one. Almost morning over here, and I guess I make myself a morning coffee.

      roderick, I got slightly uneasy when I saw Mantei struggle for Reich’s testimony. I have to admit I wondered if that was all there is.

      Guy got it absolutely right, Fogen is in denial and he pulls along all the rest including his really sick father, whose book allowed me a look into a really sick soul.

  64. I guess I should not be so shocked….so many people donated. so many people saw through a filter. I just figured if people saw the evidence, and were honest & sincere, then they would clearly find him guilty.

    fogen knows he’s guilty. he knows the truth…the ugly truth.

    eternity is forever. he is not a free man.

  65. colin black says:

    I never saw that comeing .

    Even after Caylee aa thought a fluke a one off an yet here again a childs life meant nothing

    Not even to women with kids of there own I am in shock an dissbelei

    An hope to wake up in a moment an tell you of this horrible nightmare I had.

    Just slapped myself haven’t awoke

    Its real Trayvon deied inFlorids an so has Justice

    Must be all that sunshine gave it mellanomia cancer an shrivelled it up.


    Now they need us more tyhan ever


  66. Dee says:

    SPREAD the word henceforth until it setting to down do not look at CNN or HLN news or talk shows. Give that respect to Trayvon. We don’t need their false sympathy while we are still giving them our credit rating by looking at them.
    Don’t give them any credits to dog Trayvon out any longer. Don’t give them their ”ratings”

    • Sophia33 says:

      Exactly! I just turned it off.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I turned it off as soon as the verdict was read. I refuse to watch any coverage of it!

    • Vickis Smith says:

      @Dee- Nancy Grace is no favorite of mine but she was close to tears- her voice was breaking.

      Re Frank Taaffe: there was a good reason several of the shows had him on constantly- it was because he comes across so badly. I don’t know exactly why, but when I look at/listen to him I think of Drew Peterson.

  67. Jun says:

    Nothing we can do now. I guess it’s just a wrongful death suit and that is it. My guess is the reasonable doubt standard.

  68. sparger says:

    May the Universe bring us Justice.

  69. degraveegmailcom says:


  70. elle says:

    So, how do we help with the civil trial?

  71. Sophia33 says:

    Now many of you folks who were screaming troll at every African American who expressed distaste, hopefully you will understand. This is the bullshit we live with every day and we don’t expect much from our judicial system. We go into situations like these not expecting justice or equality.

    • Exactly Sophia! I said it from day one: The prosecution, during testimony was giving away this case.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I thought so too but, I never said anything because I wanted to give them the benefit of doubt. I am just sick over this.

        • Oh lady, this is one sad night for us all. I am so heartbroken.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I don’t see what difference it would have made to call out the omissions being made, would have done, after all, the case was in their hands, there was nothing more we could do. Which is why I didn’t bother to comment on my misgivings.

            Our only hope was for those jurors to realize that, a 17 year old child unarmed, is not deadly. Even gz’s claims did not portray him as lethal. But they should also have been reluctant to declare open season on youths.

            Now imagine their son or daughter calling the police because someone is following them, the reply: “Okay it is not illegal for them to follow you, call us back if he does something else.”

            Yeah, that’s Florida today!

    • Shari/pensive says:

      Thank you. I stopped posting because I thought I was banned. During Bernies closing he sounded so unsure and like he was BEGGING for manslaughter. The people HERE at this blog and LLMPAPA did a better job of proving the case.

      When AC had the press conference announcing Murder 2 I knew they were going through the motions.

      I can’t type anymore. I don’t understand how people can hate so much that they want to kill children.

      Everyone here had faith in those mothers. Well those were WHITE mothers.

    • elle says:

      Sophia, I cannot speak for everyone else, but as best I can, I understand. I understand,and I am now terrified.

  72. breelee says:

    The jury guy earned his huge fee, JN wouldn’t let the state X out any racist. I knew as soon as I saw her face as she read the verdict, she couldn’t hide her disappointment. This is partly her fault, she let the defense hand pick the racist biotchs! How could MOTHERS not care that its legal to hunt and kill CHILDREN??? This child killer has the legal right to carry a damn gun and do it again! Anyone who visits FL. is outta their mind, boycott the whole darn state!

    • Sophia33 says:

      Because they lived as privileged white women first before they were mothers.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      He got away…again.. His father was judge and the fix was in…

    • LeaNder says:

      Quite easily they can. They only need to tell themselves that obviously something like that couldn’t happen to their children, didn’t they after all educate them to behave well?

      Maybe some of you can understand now that some of us have been fearing this all along. For whatever reason the state did not do all that could have been done. I couldn’t believe it how easily they dropped the clubhouse videos.

      Keep in mind, the telephone call was disrupted at 7:15:43 and at 7:15:56 Trayvon was dead. In a split second he decided to turn from a “burglar suspect” into a killer? He attacked Fogen while on the phone with Rachel in Miami? Even if they don’t trust her, how can they believe this.

      O’Mara’s tricks worked, that I wouldn’t have believed. But I didn’t get B7 into the jury either, that one was out really fast. Defense understood quite well he wouldn’t be that easily tricked.

      I could cry, this is so sad, and yes I saw it coming.

      this is by the way the black beauty on the defense team. As I thought, she is a law student.

  73. Romaine says:

    can the pros file an appeal

  74. Mary Davis says:

    I am sick. Every black person needs to start packing. Please take care of your children.

  75. No. Trayvon’s death was NOT God’s Will.

  76. Judy75201 says:

    I can’t fucking believe this. I can’t. I can’t. I can’t.

  77. ay2z says:

    Why would they ask abour manslaughter, if they did not think he was guilty? Was it not wanting a serious penalty attached… have to wonder.

    Take care all.


  78. My Forehead Tho says:

    This verdict isn’t a mistake;not guilty doesn’t mean innocent. Sometimes it takes injustice for there to be a change. If the Martin’s aren’t giving up, neither should we. Let’s fight just as hard to get the laws that made it possible for Fogen to get away with murder, the same law that he didn’t even use in his trial, overturned. Though we couldn’t get justice for Trayvon, we can join the Martin’s in fight to make sure no other child ends up like him.

    Hoodies Up!

  79. anita says:

    i love rev.Al. i’m white. but raised a babtist ,liberal political. we are sick right now. God bless the Martins

  80. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    They took to long.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      all a show.. to pretend they looked over the evidence. That question was a delay tactic. I knew it.. No JUSTICE FOR BLACKS IN THIS COUNTRY!

      This guy got out of him vehicle and chase this boy…

  81. nocamo33 says:

    “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

    Hebrews 10:31

  82. DruDo says:

    This PROVES you can murder anyone you want in Florida and make up lies and get away with it! I will NEVER step foot in that g-damned state again. What the hell is WRONG with those people?

  83. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    If was unfair to paint Trayvon as a criminal… But in Sanford it really didn’t matter….

    • DruDo says:

      You were absolutely right. I wish to God you had been wrong, but you were not. If lived there I would get the hell out of that God-forsaken pit of racists.

  84. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Black folks leave Florida! Your child is now a walking target.

  85. sadlyyes says:

    Florida and Texas are Disgraces

  86. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Where have all the flowers gone?

  87. Johnnie says:

    I am speechless. Were there actual mothers on that jury? Yeah, but I guess only white children matters. Fucking ridiculous.

    • Sophia33 says:

      As I said this in the beginning, they were white women before they were mothers. As such, the bar needed to be strongly met for them to see Sybrina as a mother and Trayvon as human, instead of seeing Sybrina as a black mother and Trayvon a thug.

  88. Sophia33 says:

    Don Lemon looks like he is about to cry.

  89. I’m so disappointed in those six ladies.

    wow. just….wow.

    here comes the tears

    • breelee says:

      I’m crying with you and sending you and everyone here a big wet hug. Corey talking now and lying. We or the jurors didn’t get the truth, they had to protect their crooked police department, THATS what lost this case added with racisim. So much wasn’t said because they had to protect those damn cops. NO tox? That’s what should have showed us we had no chance….no chance.

  90. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Something is wrong with this country….

  91. boyd says:

    Mark Gerogos was right, when they did not arrest him, as any other jurisdiction would that was a bad sign.

    let it fall into the Ocean. Casey Anthony and Now this. They had the evidence.

  92. bellesouth says:

    I guess we forgot about the husbands of these women. I had more faith in them.

  93. YQ says:

    History repeats itself…. AGAIN.

  94. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    I think I’ll move to the West Indies,

  95. diary73 says:

    Emmitt Till all over again!!!!!!

  96. sadlyyes says:


  97. shyloh says:

    After George pays off his attorney, he’ll still be rich ha, He’s racking in all kinds of money! Wifey should be proud! Now he’s going to be famous! 😦

  98. Dashamimi says:

    I feel sick. What is next?

  99. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Jury already felt he was innocent. This is Florida criminal system.. Chase down a child and murder him in cold blood. OK…

  100. tharealkeisha says:


  101. Katy says:

    This is a song which gave me great comfort when my Dad died.

    God bless you Trayvon. Rest in peace.

  102. Sophia33 says:

    Chris Hayes says it all.

  103. colin black says:

    six fucking nuts that fell from a tree found there way on the jury

    End off no other explanation.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I agree. Florida is where all nuts need to go live if they want to get away with murder. I am so pissed and disappointed right now. The jury knew what they were going to do before the trial even started.

  104. elle says:

    God help us. We have been talking about leaving the U.S. I guess it’s time.

  105. IMBack says:

    EXPLODE! @@@ @@@ Floridians

  106. can they still sue him? like oj was sued?

    • Yorazigo says:

      I’M SHOCKED! Was just catching up on blog after having guests tonight, turned on tv and there was verdict! I was sure there would be manslaughter.

  107. ZCBest says:

    We were on the right side of history. They got it wrong. God is still good.

  108. Woow! says:

    What did you expect with an all white jury.

  109. Nellie Nell says:

    My heart is hurting so bad right now.

  110. Puck says:

    I don’t know what to say. I really don’t.

  111. MDH says:

    To quote Colonel Dax:

    “There are times when I am ashamed to be a part of the human race and this is one of them”

    • MedicineBear says:


    • Brandy says:

      Ditto! I am a 53 year old white women and my heart is breaking! Fox news and all the racists in this country are celebrating tonite! My heart and soul is so wounded and breaking for Sabrina and Tracy! I still cant believe this outrages verdict!!

  112. Sophia33 says:

    I wanna throw up watching Glady’s smiling.

  113. colin black says:

    six JUROURS
    six witches/bitches in hell they will pay..

    • Nellie Nell says:

      This is a sad sad day. There is no justice in America when the color of ones skin determines their worthiness.

      GZ committed murder and he will pay for that sin.

  114. Two sides to a story says:

    I’m finished with this country. I’m outta here.

  115. Leisa says:

    I need hugs from all of you.

  116. I am heart broken.

    man’s world is the opposite of God’s Kingdom…truly

  117. sparger says:

    This sucks. A black childs life means nothing.

  118. Unabogie says:

    I’m never stepping foot in Florida. Never. Who are these people?

  119. type1juve says:

    This is what a black child’s life is worth in America, God help us all!

  120. parrot says:

    This was lost at jury selection.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Yep! I am speechless right now. My heart, it aches right now. Sad day in America as the color of your skin determines your worthiness.

      He still has to answer to God knowing that he committed murder, he will pay one way or the other.

      • parrot says:

        He’ll answer to God but not to his own conscience.
        He’ll live comfortably in his skin, especially with the money he’ll make.
        The corruption of the SPD has been buried, their position buttressed by the verdict.

  121. smokeegyrl says:

    This is sad sad… SAD…

  122. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    This country is all for the white man… Criminals… Now the people who said I was wrong for being the way I am. I was correct. GZ walks… I am not shocked…

  123. I’m stunned.

    THey think that was fogen screaming on the tape.

    stupid stupd stuipd

    I worried when I heard a couple of the ladies were married to engineers…I work with nothing but IT white guys, and they are CTH in the flesh.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      PEOPLE THE JURY WAS RIGGED! All white people not one intelligent black, Those were a jury of GZ peers not Trayvon Martin. JN was in on it she made sure she tied the hands and Angela Corey deliberately charged him with something they couldn’t prove in court.

  124. Mary Davis says:

    Good Lord, We are in trouble. Lord have mercy.

  125. colin black says:

    fLORIDA an America FOR SHAME FOR SHAME SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!

  126. Jun says:

    wow that sucks

  127. Judy75201 says:


  128. LeaNder says:

    Not guilty. I am very, very disappointed.

  129. towerflower says:

    The real scary part is that man will get his gun back with rights restored to carry it!

  130. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    *tears* 😥

  131. shyloh says:

    Wow he walks. UGH!!!!

  132. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Well, there you have it. A black child’s life means nothing in America. Expect more murders.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      disbelief…..where is the moral law?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      not in america — in florida

      • truthseeker66 says:

        Bull shit, the same thing happens everyday anywheere in America we just don’t hear about it. AA should not be schocked. Fogen will do it again. He

    • Nef05 says:

      The very people facilitating this also know that it will not remain solely behind a black line. It will infiltrate everywhere, eventually. Like heroin in the 60/70, crack in the 80s, meth in the 90s. This is the beginning. It will grow and spread, I look for hispanics to be considered easy targets as well.

      • MedicineBear says:

        Have no doubt, it has already been going on. I live in lily white rural NW America and the fundamentalist CACs are loaded for the “others.” Women, children, black, brown, red, poor, libruls . . . we’ve been targets all along. Now it’s just blatant unapologetic OPEN SEASON.

        I have lost all hope in humanity.

  133. breelee says:

    hunting season on our children is now legal..hide your babies. I cant stand this, 1st Casey now this fuckin child killer! That’s the 1st time I;ve ever written the f word on line, I hate him sooo much

  134. Tzar says:

    depraved indeed

  135. TheUsualSuspects says:

    He’s a F-up. He’ll be back.

  136. FactsFirst says:

    justice denied…

  137. colin black says:






  138. anita says:

    ROT IN HELL MOTHER FUCKER this is racist florida i an in shock

  139. Nellie Nell says:

    Black people do not stand a chance in this country!

    Shame shame shame

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Have we stood a chance anywhere? There is really no place where we could go, on this earth, to escape being marginalized, criminalized, and treated like less than human.

  140. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    JN gave them everything and tied the prosecution up. The jury was rigged from the beginning. I told everyone on this blog. Complete corruption…. Sanford Florida..

    • MedicineBear says:

      You were right. I was absolutely wrong. I could not have been more wrong in believing in basic humanity goodness.

  141. Malamiyya says:

    Not guilty. I’m dismayed.

  142. disappointed says:

    west makes me sick

  143. Brandy says:

    I am shaking so bad and crying right now! THIS IS BULLSHIT!!!!!

  144. ZCBest says:

    Underscores so much.

  145. DruDo says:

    Not guilty! OMG! He got away with murder!

  146. Sophia33 says:

    This was to be expected. It’s America with a mostly white jury.

  147. dasha says:

    I weep for my country.

  148. type1juve says:


  149. lady2soothe says:

    I can’t friggin’ believe it

  150. disappointed says:

    wtf is wrong with the people of Florida.

  151. Woow! says:

    That’s a damn shame.

  152. greenwarrior4 says:


  153. KA says:

    OMG!!! I am a mess!

  154. Two sides to a story says:


  155. Sabrina B. says:

    OMG! Tears!

  156. Nef05 says:

    I”m sorry, did they just say NOT GUILTY?

  157. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Not guilty… I knew it…

  158. towerflower says:

    OMG!!!! SMH in disbelief.

  159. Jasmine says:

    And we knew it!!!!

  160. breelee says:

    Oh dear God….I hate this country sometimes….oh god

  161. Sophia33 says:


  162. TheUsualSuspects says:

    😦 Not guilty.

  163. Rachael says:


  164. parrot says:


  165. Sophia33 says:


  166. looolooo says:

    OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!!! Dear GOD let them please find him GUILTY of SOMETHING!!!

  167. parrot says:

    Jury is being brought in now. JN reminds everyone there is to be no outbursts.

  168. disappointed says:

    Here we go! Justice for Trayvon!

  169. degraveegmailcom says:

    SEnding LOving THoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  170. greenwarrior4 says:

    Oh God, they’re coming in.

  171. Rachael says:

    Someone hold my hand!!!!!!! I can’t take it!

  172. parrot says:

    Judge just walked in.

  173. TheUsualSuspects says:

    John Guy is so nervous.

  174. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    I just got home from a grad party. Verdict reached already? Omg. Fox is saying the jury asked something about manslaughter. Omg this isn’t good. Omg I am sick to my stomach. If they asked about manslaughter then they must not be going with man 2. Omg is he going to be found not guilty???

  175. My Forehead Tho says:
  176. Justchill says:

    Here. Wouldn’t be any where else right now. Justice for Trayvon Martin.

  177. disappointed says:

    Mr Guy looks so nervous.

  178. type1juve says:

    Please God don’t let a murderer go free!

  179. Joy Reid just said people are on pins and needles…is she here?

    if so, Hi, Joy! You look beautiful on TV!!

    Friends, let’s all join in prayer together — take my hand and join me. If you’re not prayerful, please send loving thoughts.

  180. sadlyyes says:

    Foagy GAVE CHASE to a boy running for his life,never forget

  181. Nellie Nell says:

    So nervous right now!

    Cuff him up please!

  182. Brandy says:

    My stomach is in knots! Please Lord let there be Justice for Trayvon and his family!!

  183. GrannyStandingforTruth says:


  184. ay2z says:

    Missa Gloria

  185. MedicineBear says:

    13 HOURS.

  186. disappointed says:

    Please let this verdict protect the children of Florida and across this Nation.

  187. greenwarrior4 says:

    Does anyone else have sound?

  188. chronicity says:

    I’m dying from nervousness.

  189. Rachael says:

    I’m feeling sick to my stomach. I can’t take the suspense.

  190. A verdict has been reached, y’all! Be still my heart.

  191. ZCBest says:

    I am praying! God is good and just.

  192. diary73 says:

    What’s going on???? Have they reached a verdict?

  193. Nef05 says:

    I hear we have a verdict. Rushed into the house to log on with those who have made this journey together. And to thank the Professor and C-S for sharing their space with all of us.

  194. towerflower says:

    Praying for the Martin family…..

  195. tonya B says:


  196. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I can’t listen… just tell me.

  197. lady2soothe says:

    The news is saying a verdict has been reached

  198. YQ says:

    …..suspense…. what will it be??

  199. greenwarrior4 says:

    I don’t have sound on the livestream.

  200. TheUsualSuspects says:

    This thread is about to explode.

  201. breelee says:

    Dear God, please let these ladies give justice for our Trayvon and his loved ones. Please don’t let a killer walk free. Amen

  202. anita says:

    VERDICT i’m shaking. PLEASE dear God Karma, Payback,,, let there be JUSTICE for TRAYVON

  203. Unabogie says:

    Verdict is in!

  204. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Oh my God do you think this criminal is going to walk?

  205. DruDo says:

    A verdict!

  206. Patricia says:


  207. Sabrina B. says:

    OMG! Here we go! So nervous!

  208. Valerie says:

    Too nervous, Lord have mercy !!

  209. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    verdict reached

  210. elle says:

    Omg, I am choking on popcorn!

  211. fauxmccoy says:

    we have a verdit, please, let it be just.

  212. Leisa says:

    We have a verdict. CNN public information officer. Oh my god…

  213. Hoodies up! Holding hands in unity with all of you!

  214. My Forehead Tho says:

    Verdict reached

  215. breelee says:


  216. Lynn says:

    chewing fingernails

  217. disappointed says:

    Dear God please take his right to carry away! Amen.

  218. Xena says:

    HLN just reported that there is a verdict

  219. greenwarrior4 says:

    Noise on the livestream. For a second.

  220. Brandy says:

    There is a VERDICT!!! OMG I AM SO NERVOUS!!

  221. Santrina says:


  222. Rachael says:

    here they are!!!!

  223. TheUsualSuspects says:

    PIO says we have a verdict!

  224. bellesouth says:

    We have a verdict! Praying!!!

  225. YQ says:

    Breaking News!! Verdict in!!!

  226. colin black says:

    towerflower says:

    July 13, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    From an early OS article when she was assigned the case:

    Debra S. Nelson, the new judge assigned to George Zimmerman’s case Thursday, is a 13-year judicial veteran who has a reputation for working hard, being ambitious and imposing long prison terms.

    Not long ago, she sentenced a robber to 27 years in prison after he rejected a 20-year deal from a prosecutor.


    DruDo says:

    July 13, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    Thanks, tower!


    Lynn says:

    July 13, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    From a USA Today article last year:
    SANFORD, Fla.– When a 39-year-old woman snatched a baby from a Florida hospital in 2008, Circuit Judge Debra Nelson wasn’t swayed by the fact that the child was missing for only about an hour. She sentenced the kidnapper to 30 years in prison.

    ..So given those two examples.

    J NELSON..Will have no proplem sending this theif stealing the ultimate a LIFE an his VOICE…




  227. towerflower says:

    verdict is in

  228. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    They got a verdict

  229. We have a verdict! – Court Administrator

  230. Puck says:


  231. breelee says:

    CNN ex pro. just said by the jury not re-submitting their question means they have a holdout. In his opinion, that means all but one want to let fogen walk. : ( I don’t see how he gets that, and pray he’s wrong.

  232. Brandy says:

    I am starting to think there is 1 or 2 holdouts. Hmmmm, not sure what to think? This is so nerve racking!!

  233. Jun says:

    Bernie hit the nail on the head in that the whole unnecessary and tragic event was because of the assumptions of the defendant and his actions upon it

    Having said that, the whole situation was truly created by the Fogen and could have been avoided by the Fogen if he simply did not stalk a boy with a gun

    I do not see how anyone that is normal could buy Omara’s argument about “Oh, Trayvon had a choice of 4 minutes, to go home, and he did not?” and proceeds to make up a story not supported by evidence

    Any reasonable person will see that Omara is a double talking sheister and a hypocrite… he tells everyone to not make assumptions about anything especially Fogen and then asks the jury to make assumptions about Trayvon and presume the boy not innocent

  234. greenwarrior4 says:

    I thought 10 pm was the latest they were allowed to deliberate. Does anyone know if that’s correct?

  235. anita says:

    my husband just told msnbc said JN once let a jury deliberate until 3:00a.m. He’s in the living rm. i am back & forth in my home off. i only have 2 desktop computers now, Oh, yeah, he says it was in 2010. this was about 30 min. ago.

    • Rachael says:

      I guess if they want to, why not.

    • ay2z says:

      No apparent double standard, after last week’s 12 hr day in court for Judge Nelson. If she feels they have an end in sight, will she encourage them to stick it out?

      • Rachael says:

        Of course it really might help if they get a good night’s sleep (well as good as they can) and come back to the table and look at everything with fresh eyes.

  236. My Forehead Tho says:


  237. willisnewton says:

    status update for those of us with no cable tv access and on dialup please!

  238. Beverly says:

    Would someone please post the msnbc link? For some reason I am not getting it…Thanks.

  239. Johnnie says:

    Perhaps when the lights go out as they did the other night when it was a late nighter, it’s speed their asses up. This is getting ridiculous. It’s 9:30 in Florida. Either give the verdict and/or advise their through for the night. Getting frustrated here!!!

  240. Deborah Moore says:

    To all my new friends here, acknowledged or not…
    Something special has happened here.

  241. colin black says:

    IDruDo says:

    July 13, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    We all are a little antsy right now, but I’m holding on to the thought that the jury will do the right thing.

    Im not antsy att all I know there comeing back at the very least with manslaught er an a good chance o murder second degree

    I feel theres 5 for murder an one on the fence thinks maybe manslaughter.

    An so they revisited the depraved mind ect an manslaughter edidts or instuctions just to tip het over to murder two.

    One things for sure there not going to be a hung jury.

    Its either going to be MURDER TWO 70 PERCENT

    Or Manslaughter 30 percent as at the end of the day the 5 for murder may just cave to the manslauaghter.

    However I think one hold out for man slaughter will cave to the majority

    One would think common sence dictates such eddicate I m o…

  242. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    “Dreams Lost” (LLMPapa’s video)

  243. willisnewton says:

    someone on the WESH feed is babbling on an open mic. Something might be about to happen.

  244. crazy1946 says:

    God grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change;
    courage to change the things I can;
    and wisdom to know the difference.

    Living one day at a time;
    Enjoying one moment at a time;
    Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
    Taking, as He did, this sinful world
    as it is, not as I would have it;
    Trusting that He will make all things right
    if I surrender to His Will;
    That I may be reasonably happy in this life
    and supremely happy with Him
    Forever in the next.

    –Reinhold Niebuhr

  245. ay2z says:

    In the Air Tonight

    Hold On. I can feel it, coming in the air tonight. Hold on.

    • I’m on needles and pins…no sleep tonight.

      The sunset was magnificent here in Orlando…brilliant gold and bright blue in the west; shades of pink reflected in the deep blue east.

  246. disappointed says:

    I hope they stick it out tonight and reach a verdict. Fogen has been living his life for almost 17 months while Trayvon has been in Heaven.

  247. chronicity says:

    I feel good about the jury’s question, even though intellectually I know one shouldn’t draw conclusions from it.

    Let’s say all but one wanted to vote for an aquittal, with the one hold out thinking it could be manslaughter. If this were the case, why would the holdout trouble themselves with asking for clarification on manslaughter? Either Zimmerman acted lawfully or he didn’t. Knowing the instructions for manslaughter wouldn’t tell you whether Zimmerman’s actions were justified.

    But let’s say all but one wanted to vote for M2. This time the holdout is leaning towards manslaughter but is open to M2. In this situation, I could see why clarification on manslaughter would make sense. Because if the holdout is on the fence and wants to pick the best choice possible, they will want to know exactly the difference between the two charges. This time the choice isn’t between lawful and unlawful. The choice is between two types of unlawfulness.

    I’m a naturally optimistic person. Here’s hoping this case doesn’t change that.

  248. colin black says:

    EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    July 13, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    This jury wants to let him off… I just called my friend from the DA and she thinks he is going to walk… This is Sanford….

    Off Course he will walk this being Sandford.

    They have no flat escelaters like you do in airfort to transport you the Kids an luggage

    He will walk foggagge or more apy shuffle an shymeeeee his manacled feet an shuffle shymmie shymiee two step a hop an a skip on to the

    Chained between a Mexican Dude an a BIG BLAHCK DUDE.

    A G Plan


  249. Jasmine says:

    Does anyone know if Fogen texts and all that was entered into evidence? I don’t remember if it was or not. That really ticks me off the way they went after Trayvon but they did not even give a hint of what was in Fogen’s phone. And his tattoos or whether or not he has ever done drugs.

  250. zhickel says:

    This is for you, Colin Black, to take your mind off the strain of waiting for the verdict. (from a Scot who left the auld country nearly 50 years ago)

    Hope it gives you a giggle!

    I haven’t posted more than once or twice over the duration of the trial but have, allowing for the time difference, followed every word and every comment on this blog.

    The nuthouse is wallowing in a miasma of far-fetched conspiracies of their own creation. It’s hard to read more than the headlines on that site without severe nausea.

    I think the prosecution did well. My prediction is a verdict of manslaughter.

  251. HeresLookingatYou says:

    I will never have faith in the justice system again ..
    If a proven liar murderer walks

    • towerflower says:

      I keep thinking of what William Blackstone said in the 1700’s:

      “All presumptive evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously; for the law holds it better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent party suffer.”

      and Benjamin Franklin changed it to:

      “it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer”.

      While all us would no doubt be disappointed if he goes free, I still think of this quote.

      • Judy75201 says:

        You know, I never really have been on board with that perspective.

      • Malisha says:

        They don’t mind Black defendants getting wrongly convicted, though. Just that you don’t want to improperly convict a white defendant just for a little peccadillo such as killing a Black kid.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Calm down please. We don’t know and we don’t need this. Close to the finish line. Winner’s have believe and hope that they will win until the very end.

    • Brandy says:

      I agree! especially after the Casey Anthony debacle! That jury never looked at one piece of evidence! I will never get over that verdict!

  252. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I feel those Sanford jurors are trying to let him off…

    • Leisa says:

      Stop that. This is so frustrating as it is and to be where I can’t pace back and forth or throw something at the tv or anything….. Do not get negative now. If they were looking to let him off, they would have done so. I think they are going with the lesser charge not knowing it’s going to give him more time……. They want him to be held accountable. How can they not want him to pay for using a gun in response to a punch in the nose……

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      • anita says:

        ~Leisa sorry,imeant to reply to Everybody—own op- about calling her friend. sure didn’t intend to add to your frustration

        • Leisa says:

          Oh no no just frustrated to be stuck with all the tubes and monitors instead of at home. Until it happens, I can’t grasp that 6 reasonable women would allow him to walk away from this. I am a reasonable woman so I must believe….. In fairies and all of that. Lmfao!

      • Lynn says:

        EIETTOO isn’t just getting negative now. They have been negative for awhile now and every other comment the other day was Bernie is so blah blah *insert any hateful thought*. The Judge is so blah blah *insert more crap about bias*

        People have spoke about not reading blog until this is over hoping this will end soon. I understand the feeling. I’ve been trying to skip certain people who don’t seem to be as positive as those of us who read all the evidence over the last year.

        • Leisa says:

          Yes I commented on the negativity the other day and that having this place has been such a wonderful and positive place that the sudden negativity was hard to understand. Bottom line, I think we know by now who is for real and who to ignore……….HOODIES R UP…. WAY WAY UP!

    • Brandy says:

      God, I hope not! Why would they have to find a way to let him go? If they feel the State hasn’t met their burden, they would of come back with a NOT GUILTY hours ago and be back home by now. That does not make sense to me. IMO

    • DruDo says:

      We all are a little antsy right now, but I’m holding on to the thought that the jury will do the right thing.

  253. HeresLookingatYou says:

    If I was at a stand off I think I would want a break but if I felt we were close I’d keep going..
    I hope they are close to doing the right thing

  254. Leisa says:

    Hundreds gathering in courtyard. Media being moved around in courthouse. Something could be happening. Told my husband I want to be in Florida to wave and clap and cheer as they take Fogen away in police car to jail for his crime. Would love to be there when he meets Jerome (who’s bitch he will be in jail)…… I cannot believe there will not be justice here……

  255. anita says:

    MSNBC is live, good coverage, updates, etc. just waiting………

    • TheUsualSuspects says:

      Yes, not as loud as HNL. MSNBC more like news broadcast.

    • Puck says:

      Great coverage. Plus, it’s a libeal news outlet, therefore reality-based.

    • Brandy says:

      Hi Anita, I have been switching back and forth between CNN and MSNBC. I checked out HLN for a min and Nancy G has F Taffe on so I switched the channel! Cant stand that man! HLN has really gone down hill lately, They have no class! ugh

      • Sabrina B. says:

        I can’t watch any of them. I am reading a book, TV is turned to a movie channel and I have this link and Wildabouttrial open. My stomach has already been in knots and the book helps me to keep my mind occupied while I wait. The pundits only worsen the anxiety.

        • DruDo says:

          Sabrina, I’m doing the same thing, reading and have this and wftv link open. I’m also keeping an eye on a mommy raccoon and her babies who are roaming around on my deck. The babies are adorable and they’re clever little characters. 🙂

  256. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    This jury wants to let him off… I just called my friend from the DA and she thinks he is going to walk… This is Sanford….

  257. breelee says:

    Wish I knew how to take shorthand, because Capt. Carter read fogens letter on NG. It was unbelievable. I tried to google it, so I assume the whole thing hasn’t been shared with the public before, has it? I’d love to read it myself, so if anyone has it can you please post it?

    If I were a juror and it took over 2 hrs to get a answer, I’d be a bit peeved. I think they’re trying their hardest to get done tonight, and this might have blown it for them…and us.

    • Marsha says:

      Unless I have missed something, the judge answered that she could not have a general discussion with them about the manslaughter instructions but that if they had a specific question, she might be able to answer it. I don’t think they have come back with one. Have you heard anything more?

  258. DruDo says:

    Isn’t sentencing usually given at a later date in cases like this? I think it is. If so, we’ll be waiting again to find out what it’ll be. Does anyone know what JN’s record is as far as the length of sentences she imposes?

    • towerflower says:

      From an early OS article when she was assigned the case:

      Debra S. Nelson, the new judge assigned to George Zimmerman’s case Thursday, is a 13-year judicial veteran who has a reputation for working hard, being ambitious and imposing long prison terms.

      Not long ago, she sentenced a robber to 27 years in prison after he rejected a 20-year deal from a prosecutor.

    • Lynn says:

      From a USA Today article last year:
      SANFORD, Fla.– When a 39-year-old woman snatched a baby from a Florida hospital in 2008, Circuit Judge Debra Nelson wasn’t swayed by the fact that the child was missing for only about an hour. She sentenced the kidnapper to 30 years in prison.

      • elle says:

        And that is why the medical staff had to release me in 24 hours after having my children, even though I had C-sections. I just stood there staring through the window and trying to convince them to let my babies stay in my room with me.

        • Malisha says:

          I HATE that barbaric crap where they take the babies away from the moms when they’re just born, how stupid and vulgar and obnoxious and psychotic!

    • Leslie says:

      I read an article earlier today about JN and it it was saying that she typically hands out the maximim sentences in most cases…I’ll go back and see if I can find it

  259. Brandy says:

    My way of thinking is this- if the jurors were going to find GZ Not Guilty they would have already done so. I have a feeling they are deciding between Murder2 and Manslaughter.

    • type1juve says:

      That’s what I think too. Manslaughter might be a compromise for some of them, especially if they don’t know what the sentence is for it.

    • Puck says:

      Exactly. It’s only logical for them to get the self-defense issue resolved first, because that’s an acquittal on both charges, and everyone goes home.

  260. smokeegyrl says:

    I am going to buy me a wig in the morning or start wearing scarfs… I am pulling all my hair out… going to the drug store and buy that Rogaine stuff… grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…

  261. colin black says:

    Is my sat 13 th still a poss?
    Whats the Florida time now
    An will they go agin tomorrow Sunday if still deliberating or wait until Monday???

  262. vickie s. votaw says:

    EIETTO, it was entered into evidence

  263. colin black says:

    In fact Ive heard


    The Black Hand

    The M exican Mafia have already put a price on foggagges head.

    A Packet Off Skittles an A Can of Arizona Watermellon Juice..


  264. Puck says:

    Anyone ventured over to Jeralyn’s? Has she weighed in? I’ve never been there (or the CTH) and I’d rather not. She should have her liberal card (as in, “card-carrying liberal”) revoked and burned.

    • willisnewton says:

      I’m guessing she’s doing the legalese version of what she always says, which is “la la la la la la la la I can’t hear you la la la ” as the truth is spoken.

    • Sophia33 says:

      They talked about her on the page I saw on CTH. I didn’t click on the link they posted from her though. But she seems to be a buddy to them now. I can’t believe she still considers herself a liberal.

  265. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    JN this showed a depraved mind.

  266. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Did you just hear the Professor of GZ email. GZ wrote him and email stating, The wanted to became a US Marshall so he could HUNT convicted criminals down!” WHY wasn’t this in court records.

  267. YQ says:

    I hear them saying that Murder2 is off the table. Is that usually the case when jurors ask for lesser charge instructions?

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Nobody really knows.. They are guessing.

    • Unabogie says:

      No one knows. It’s possible that they’re arguing over M2 vs manslaughter in an attempt to tell the difference. Anyone saying they know what’s going on based on this question is talking out of their rear.

    • The instructions tell them not to consider lesser included offenses unless they cannot agree on the greater offense.

      • newmediacounsel says:

        It would help to have some clarification about what that means, because others, elsewhere have said this (a) means murder 2 is off the table and (b) that they have reasonable doubt about manslaughter. Why someone would be asking a question about man if they had questions I don’t know,but those are the statements people are making.

        • It can mean anything from, “We’ve been reviewing the instructions before we get started to make sure we understand them,” to “We have rejected self-defense and now we are trying to decide between murder2 and manslaughter.”

          The line between those two crimes is not all that clear since both involve reckless conduct.

      • Unabogie says:

        But you’d agree that asking about manslaughter doesn’t mean they’re done considering M2, right? They could be spending all of this time clarifying the jury instructions before taking a single vote. We just don’t know.

      • YQ says:

        Tx, Professor, so I hope manslaughter sticks… even the SPD wanted to hit him with that.

  268. Brandy says:

    Here is a little something to lighten the mood: I asked my hubby- what is the one thing that drives men crazy about women? he said they talk to much LOL, I said, okay, what is the other thing that men complain about that women do? he had no answer and then I said- we are always making you guys WAIT! Well, we have 6 women jurors so be patient. LOL

  269. towerflower says:

    They have Z’s former professor on Nancy Grace…..interesting. Quotes an email from Z about how he wants to be a Federal Marshall and the professor talks about how they taught self-defense and SYG in the class.

  270. Sabrina B. says:

    Do inmates get to watch trial coverage in jail? Or would he be walking in there without them knowing what he did? I could see him being such a chameleon, changing his demeanor to fit his environment, and lying about why he is really there.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Never fear he will be well known when he gets to his new home! It will not be a pleasant experience for him, and he will quickly find he will not be able to use his “chameleon” abilities in there!

      • Sabrina B. says:

        Good. Maybe he will be inspired to come to terms with himself. His real self because he won’t be able to hide and live in denial. There he will get the unvarnished truth about who he is and what he did, instead of the denial his friends and family wants to keep him under. “God’s plan” indeed.

    • colin black says:

      +Mexican mafia Inmates have inerweb through phones bleary

      Any gadget going they got so for sure they are all more than aware of foggagge.

      Normal cons wont get gavel to gavel but willhave tv s in there cells an watch the news.

      An the real info comes from visits an letters


      As only idiots discuss crimes on recored monited prison or le phones even morons know this

      An if they didn’t they are told at the start of each call.

      So yes those in the know

      Know all abot foggagge an he is not going to be neighbour hood watch

      He is going to a neighbourhood that in its ENTIRETERY WILL BE WATCHING HIM.

      I love IRONY

      A G Plan.

  271. Rachael says:

    So what is going on? I thought court was going to start up in a half hour but that was like an hour ago.

  272. colin black says:

    so whats the skinny we do or don’t hear the Q ?

    • ay2z says:

      I’ll bet not, jury deliberations, juror thoughts might be off-limits?

    • Marsha says:

      Apparently the jury has not come back with a more specific question. Maybe they wanted a general discussion and since they cannot get it, they just went back to deliberating.

  273. ay2z says:

    Can you paint with All the Colours of the Wind?

  274. colin black says:

    EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    July 13, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    I fear he is going to walk.



    Absulutely no way if foggagge walks I will never BLOG again an I mean that refrain

    But I will be blogging for many many years yet remain


    NO Injustice in FLORIDA again

    This will not be DEAR SWEET WEE CALEY AGAIN.

    An she may well be holding Trays hand right now.

    For those that believe…


    A G Plan


  275. diary73 says:

    Did anyone notice Judge Nelson’s expression when BDLR played the f**king c**ns part in his closing? She didn’t hear punks either.

  276. MedicineBear says:

    I think they are close to being agreed on M2, but want to make sure that manslaughter doesn’t fit as well. They are, in essence, trying to compare M2 and mansl to confirm in their minds that the DIFFERENCE applies to what the evidence supports.

    They know they will have to account for WHY they chose M2 instead of manslaughter, and I think they just want to confirm in their own minds that manslaughter would not have covered it, but M2 did.

    I wonder if their refined question will be something like “What are the differences between M2 and manslaughter?”

  277. colin black says:

    TheUsualSuspects says:

    July 13, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Jury has finished dinner and are continuing deliberations. I love it.


    So did they get there answer in private to there question?
    Do we not hear it

    Or was is deemed an not ansewerable typ question

    An they just got to figure it out dealio

    Anyone in the know?

    • Beverly says:

      They worked it out in Court; the attorneys agreed to the response and the Judge was going to give the note to the jury. Then they were going to be on standby for 15 min in case jurors had any question.

    • TheUsualSuspects says:

      JN sent note to jury telling them she cannot answer a general question about the manslaughter instruction, and that jury needs to submit a specific question.

      After that, everyone went to dinner. After dinner, the public information officer released the statement you pasted from my post.

      We’re still waiting for the jury to give the court its specific question.

      • nocamo33 says:

        Wow! Based on this, it seems they are close and planning on wrapping up tonight? Otherwise, if they knew they needed significantly more time, they’d postpone till tomorrow, no?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      My stomach is rolling. MSNBC just announced that a verdict is immiment!

  278. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I fear he is going to walk.

  279. Puck says:

    MSNBC reports jury back from dinner and in jury room.

  280. TheUsualSuspects says:

    Jury has finished dinner and are continuing deliberations. I love it.

  281. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I think they have are stuck about what he said, “fu-king coons.” The media tried to backtrack after admitting last year this was what he had said in the 911 call. Now the jury is questioning this statement, according to Nancy Grace. I knew what I heard way back then,.

  282. colin black says:

    Where be all the people talinng about stuff Willis?

  283. disappointed says:

    If I were fogen, I would have my fat ass outside sucking fresh air. His time for fresh air may be a thing of the past very shortly.

  284. colin black says:

    ??? am I wrong thread again bet I am

    lets see

    Hello hellow hellow hellow hel Theresa an ec ch co co


    chant tho

    weres the MASTER when yo

  285. colin black says:

    foggagge be tuckin in to some artery logging cholesterol heart attack on a plate as he gets nearer to hearing that gate slam aan he has to confront fate.

  286. colin black says:

    jury on 60 min dinner beak as of 40 mins ago?
    That explains.

  287. colin black says:


  288. Jasmine says:

    Professor I have a question. You don’t have to be physically injured in order to claim self-defense, is that right? You can just have fear of harm, kill someone, and claim self-defense?

    • TheUsualSuspects says:

      Not the professor, but the fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury (not just harm) must be “reasonable.” Reasonableness is whether the defendant acted in a manner that a ordinary, prudent person in society would have acted under the same or similar circumstances.

      What the jurors are weighing is whether an ordinary, prudent person would feel it was necessary to shoot someone in the heart during a fist fight.

      • Malisha says:

        There wasn’t even a fist fight. All anybody saw was tussling, running with flailing arms, and scuffling.

        • MedicineBear says:

          But if the jury looks at the evidence and agrees that the State showed adequate proof that a life-threatening series of head bashings DIDN’T happen, what they are left with is the WORST that the “tussle” could be is a fist fight. Trayvon could reasonably have gotten in a hit or slap as he was defending himself (which he was entitled to). GZ had the right to defend himself back with equal force — fists and hands. If either of them could get away (retreat) or otherwise withdraw from the conflict, they had that responsibility and the other would have no right to pursue or detain.

          So, since they both had fists, and knowing that there was a struggle, the WORST characterization would be FISTFIGHT.

          If you start with the premise of the struggle being a fistfight, then why isn’t there any proof that GZ used his hands to hit-punch-slap? Why is there no proof that he used the flashlight (non-deadly weapon) to fight back in a fistfight? Why is there no evidence that GZ fought back with non-lethal force before resorting to his deadly weapon?

          “Bringing a gun to a fist fight” kinda sums it up in a shorthand way.

      • Rachael says:

        Nothing prudent or reasonable about GZ.

    • Rachael says:

      reasonable fear of severe bodily harm or death – like if someone points a gun at you and you shoot them first – you have no physical injuries. Or even if someone is coming at you with something and you think it is a gun and it turns out to be a fake gun

      • MedicineBear says:

        I don’t know if you are familiar with a “throw down weapon.” Some cops and self-defense-literate gun toters have been known to have an “extra” weapon handy to “throw down” in case they get caught in a situation where they want to claim self defense, but the person they shot and killed is unarmed. That’s why CAC had to come up with the “sidewalk as a deadly weapon” — because Trayvon had nothing on him (GZ frisked his body) and GZ didn’t have a “throw down” that he could have blamed on TM. Another good one is to say that the victim pulled something out of his pocket and you shot thinking it was a gun (when it was just a phone, a toy gun, etc.).

        Yes, there are people ready for trouble and well-versed in how to CYA with a viable self-defense story for any occasion. One of the jurors used to have a CCW so she may be able to share some of her knowledge about self defense laws (and pre-rehearsed CYA scenarios).

    • Dave says:

      You have to have REASONABLE fear of imminent great bodily harm or death, Self defense is justtified if it’s to prevent death or great bodily harm, not to retaliate for injuries, no matter how severe or how recent.

    • Correct, but your fear of imminent death or serious injury necessitating the use of deadly force to prevent it must be reasonable.

    • RobertSF says:

      Yes, that is true. The issue here, though, isn’t so much the extent of Zimmerman’s injuries. Rather, it’s the mismatch between Zimmerman’s injuries and his narrative of what happened. It should be clear that he lied about the “beating” he got, and if he lied about that, why should we believe it was legitimate self-defense?

      I do wish the prosecution had clarified that a bit more, but that’s how I see it.

      • Rachael says:

        Exactly – His lies and exaggerations don’t match his story so it is really hard to believe he was in fear of anything except getting caught killing someone.

    • Jasmine says:

      Thank you all. I was confused about that since it just seemed too simple how O’DumbDumb was saying that.

  289. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I am praying for strength and trust during this time.

    I am praying for kindness and understanding in people’s hearts.

    I am praying that we can feel the energy of our unity in our hearts.

    I believe that light disperses darkness.

    I believe that all of us have that light and we daily can touch the world with our light!

  290. MichelleO says:

    As for me, I am staying faithful to the end. I not going to be running around carrying the water for people who root for child murderers.

  291. colin black says:


    aN HOUR THIRTY 20 80 OR 90 MINS?


    • Puck says:

      They were on dinner break. Apparently they’ll be back in a few minutes.

    • Beverly says:

      Are you sure they are in chambers? I thought the judge was giving the note back to the jury after she and the attorneys had answered it…..So the jury would not be deliberating…..No?

      • Puck says:

        They can keep deliberating over dinner while waiting for JN’s note.

      • DruDo says:

        She sent the note back in to them re a specific question and said they had ordered dinner, but I haven’t seen anything else regarding their question since.

  292. colin black says:

    Ive been wearing this grey hoodie since trial started not washed

    Must admit its getting a bit ripe but neither I nor Better Half gives a flyin fig

    justicetrayits onitsway


  293. What if Kate gives birth, Mandela dies, Snowden boards a plane and we get the Zimmerman verdict ALL AT THE SAME TIME? #Newsnado

  294. Sophia33 says:

    CTH is saying that the one “minority” juror is holding things up while the others want to let Fogen free. How do they know? Man that is a racist bunch?

    • Sophia33, it’s shocking how racist they are…I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. The internet sure casts light on things I otherwise never would have known.

      • KateW says:

        The racists are everywhere. Walking amongst us right now. I am sure they would love this clown to go free so they can run out and shoot a Black person too and claim self defense. It is amazing how much they defend a killer and sociopath.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Yep. People can hide behind the Internet and let all of their racism out. Someone wrote an article a few months back about how the racist comments on the Internet have affected people’s trust in their friends of the opposite race. In other words, because of the rampant racism on the internet and the anonymity, people are wondering if their friends in real life are pretending with regards to race.

    • Beverly says:

      Wow, that is so crazy; they have no idea. Thanks

    • Puck says:

      How would they have any motherfucking idea of what’s going on in the jury room?

    • KateW says:

      Well a hung jury is better than an acquittal. And if one of the jurors is tweeting out or contacting someone on the outside the judge needs to hear about this immediately.

      • Sophia33 says:

        It was pure speculation. One attorney talking head tweeted something to the effect that one minority juror could be a powerful thing. On CTH nut ran with it and said that the “minority” juror could be holding things up to stop an acquittal. Then the other nuts co-signed.

        Then one said that he or she would rather have a jury of mechanics and plumbers than someone who does yoga and likes animals. See this is their fucked up mentality.

        I just went over there for the first time a few days ago. I always swear that I am not going back. But it’s like watching a car accident. It’s mesmerizing to watch the level of their insanity and hatred.

    • Rachael says:

      Because they are assholes. Maybe it is the other way around. They make me sick.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I told you so but it may be a distraction. No body should no but this is Sanford criminal operation.

    • disappointed says:

      I do not believe that. 1 holding up 5 women that want to go home? They would have already water boarded her and been sitting on the couch at home for 5 hours. jmo

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Certain people have called me negative for telling the truth on Sanford is a racist county.

      • disappointed says:

        I believe you! It is just sad because every color is beautiful and every color has SO much to offer. IMO they limit themselves for being racist.

      • DruDo says:

        You aren’t being negative, you’re being truthful. I have family there and have heard way too many things to believe otherwise.

    • concernedczen says:

      I agree they have no idea, but if it is B29 the lone voice of sanity. Send her your thoughts, prayers and strength to stand strong for justice. Hang the jury if she needs to. Do not let this killer walk free!!!

    • Judy75201 says:

      Twitter is saying Taaffe said “maybe” this is happening.

    • DruDo says:

      Those nuts have no way of knowing anything that goes on in that jury room.

    • Girlp says:

      How do they know anything? The CTH crowd has got to be the most ignorant people on the entire planet.

    • Unabogie says:

      What makes that extra special racism is that here on this blog, B29 has always been the one we’ve worried about, based on her apparent aloofness during the state’s case.

      But to them, she’ll always be suspect because she’s not white.

  295. Dave says:

    Enough already! It’s time to go watch “Shaft’s Big Score”.

    Justice for Georgie!

  296. crazy1946 says:

    Many of us have fought for the last 16-17 months for justice, so what is a little longer after that? I spent some time last night reading some of the older posts (most of them over 1 year ago) and it is simply amazing how many of we early posters are still around! We have lost some along the way, but we have added many supporters of justice to this site that Professor Leatherman has provided! There is more unity here on this site than I think you could find anywhere else! This group of people are beyond compare and it is great honor to walk beside each and every one of you….

  297. colin black says:

    aNY1 HEAR TESTING 1 2 3 4 5???

  298. FYI: The instructions direct the jury to consider murder 2 before considering the lesser included charge of manslaughter. They should consider manslaughter only if they cannot agree on murder 2.

    • Puck says:

      Right, but wouldn’t they settle the issue of self-defense before going to murder 2? Because that’s an aquittal, saves everyone time, and lets them go home.

    • newmediacounsel says:

      Does that mean they have decided on murder 2 or that they can’t agree, and are deciding between murder 2 and manslaughter?

      • abbyj1 says:

        Whoops, I’m curious about this one also. Any chance that you might answer this one, also, Fred? Does the request for instruction about manslaughter mean that they have rule out M2? Thank you.

    • abbyj1 says:

      Thank you for clarifying this, Fred.

    • ic2fools says:

      And I believe that is what happened tonite Professor. either did not agree of didn’t find that M2 applied (you know i do think M2 applies, just saying how the jury may be thinking.

      I do believe we will have verdict tomorrow of Manslaughter with a gun.

      If by chance I am wrong I will own up to my err. I have a gut feeling jury will vote after a good nite of shut eye.

  299. Katy says:

    I’ve been watching the trial so much that I have run out of my data allowance, moved into extra data (that I have to pay for) and run out of that and bought extra gigs.

    • Lynn says:

      You need to pull up a chair in McDonalds, Starbucks, IHOP or park near a hotel for some free wi-fi. lol

      • Katy says:

        I’m in Australia, Lynn and on a desktop. But, thanks 🙂

      • Dee says:

        Now you have scared me. Don’t know anything about a computer. Is it going to do something to the computer and how could you have to do to fix what ever u are talking about.

      • William Walton says:

        Or as my daughter found out go to an internet cafe She was in Germany on a student exchange during her final year at Texas A&M and was calling me on her cellphone. Met up with several other students from Heidleburg University and they became friends and invited her to an internet cafe. Talked long distance from the computer for only $0.06/min. Started calling me on the land line and saved a bunch of dollars.

        • Katy says:

          Dee, no need to be scared. Because I’m in Australia, and the TV stations aren’t covering the trial here, I need to watch it on video which takes up a lot of my data allowance.

          William, I live in a small city and I don’t THINK we have any internet cafes here. I did think about the library, but I don’t think I’d be able to hear anything there … anyway, it’s nice and comfortable in my unit.

          And, very soon, I’m going to find a plan which gives us unlimited internet access.

  300. Mary Davis says:

    I really miss SeachingMinds. Would love to hear what his/her opinions are on Guy’s closing argument. Also would love to see his/her comments right about now.

    • willisnewton says:

      “and Scarecrow, I’m gonna miss YOU most of all”

      I feel like Dorothy going back to Kansas. Let’s hope the witch is dead, all right. But yeah I will miss ALL of you folks. When can I buy you all a drink and dance the night away in celebration?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        let’s do!!! better yet, when we get past this, let’s not disappear. there is always more to come. i do believe that as long as we get a conviction we are paving the way to improvement.

  301. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    This jury concerns me… I hope they don’t acquit this child killer.

  302. colin black says:


    • Two sides to a story says:

      It feels as if half the world is holding its breath . . .

    • William Walton says:

      Colin, not the longest minute ever. However, the jury is doing their just deliberation such that they are not like GZ and go off like a cocked gun. This in essense is good that they are deliberating and asking questions. Are you by any chance in London, UK?

  303. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    Bring it home ladies….
    Speak the truth for Trayvon…
    As Mr.Guy said…
    he’s owed it.

  304. diary73 says:

    Do any of the instructions mention specifics about self-defense claims, such as believability of the defendant’s claims, or are the jury members expected to figure that part out for themselves?

    • Puck says:

      I think the jury’s choice to believe all, part, or none of a witness’s testimony (including GZ’s statements in the interviews and walk-through) is an overall thing, not specifically tied to self-defense.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yes, it explains that.

    • Puck says:

      Oh – maybe you meant the reasonableness standard? That’s in the self-defense instruction.

  305. breelee says:

    TH’s saying MOM messed up not explaining what manslaughter will give fogen. lol He might have if he or West even knew. I didn’t know they were allowed too, so color me shocked they didn’t tell the jury.

  306. disappointed says:

    Finally made it home! What is going on? The Tree-house Nuts better back off Guy he is a hottie but more than anything he fights for our son Trayvon. He respects Trayvon’s life.

  307. Shada524 says:

    I’ve been a lurker here for over a year. I’ve been following this case since I signed the petition in April 2012. I am on pins and needles and I know this is my Trayvon family here so I had to come here for strength. I’m praying for and waiting for justice for Trayvon Benjamin Martin.

  308. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    While I have been waiting, I decided to go to Xena’s page “In Honor of Trayvon Martin’s Birthday” to listen to her tribute video using Kindheart’s poem and to read everyone’s wonderful words there:


  309. diary73 says:

    Hoping for straight Murder 2.

  310. crazy1946 says:


  311. Marsha says:

    Praying for justice for Trayvon and feeling hopeful. I feel so strongly about this case that I would not have married my husband last year if he wasn’t as outraged about this murder as I am.

  312. Deborah Moore says:

    Can I repost the song I linked to the end of the other thread?
    (Doing it anyway. Aren’t I a stinkah?)

  313. breelee says:

    Puck made tons of sense. That the jury should 1st go through and agree he is NOT, not guilty. That’s how I’d assume its done. I freaked because TH’s said JN Told them to go through murder 2 1st. That doesn’t make sense and I didn’t hear her say that.

    I agree with others, they had a question, they’re working through dinner, we’ll hopefully get a answer tonight. Please God. Whoever said the treehouse is freaking out I thank you. That’s what I was reading when the jury question came in. They actually cheered me up, they’re a hot mess over MOM. lmbo Last time I was there I almost barfed, so it was fun seeing them turn on MOM.

    Hoodies WAY up everyone, WAY UP! Thank you Professor for the new thread..

    • Marsha says:

      I didn’t hear her say that either. I understood her to say that the jurors should fill out the verdict form in that order.

    • MedicineBear says:

      Not to worry, the CTH still thinks Romney is going to win.

    • William Walton says:

      IMO, I would think that the jury would take up the least of the verdicts not guilty first. They would then move on to the manslaughter charge and then onto Murder 2. It appears this jury of 6 ladies are not what Omara expected. They appear to be very focused and very austite. They are thinking very clearly and very objectively. We will just have to wait as to how this plays out. I think GZ is guilty but my opinion does not count only the 6 ladies on the jury.

      • LeaNder says:

        William, I think O’Mara was too transparently trying to control them, they would notice I felt. Fogen Sen. wrote in his book, he calls himself a “control freak”.

        When I read a report that they did take much more notes during his closing argument, I smiled and thought: yes, I would to be able to later check some of his statements. 😉

    • Malisha says:

      Judges do not get to tell juries how to deliberate.

  314. edgySF is here…logged in on my laptop as edruminations….dropped ipad in tub yesterday while watching John Guy on YouTube. was logged in as edgySF on it.

    ….do they make waterproof iPad cases….? I love watching it in the tub…not in a pervy way!!!


    I decided to check out CTH…just because I was curious and am so restless. They are so damaged….but I did see that a CAC was escorted out of the protest area in Sanford because he was yelling at the TM supporters (which the CTH crowd refer to as TH) to go smoke some crack and pick up their welfare checks.

    I think he was on drugs or sumpin.

    probably supported by the guvmint, too.

    • Rachael says:

      That is why I laugh at them, but not because it is funny. They always talk about oh, like now, riots and BS, when it is THEM!!!

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      There is a new coating you can put on cellphones & other stuff. I saw it on tv yesterday, it may work on iPads. I use mine every day

    • breelee says:

      OMG you bringing up Guy reminded me what the treehouse is saying about him. They don’t think he’s a cutie, dreamy hunk of man! They call him a fem Ken doll. lmbo Guess I love fem Ken dolls then. Personally I’d take any of the 3. : )

      • Sophia33 says:

        That’s straight up jealousy on their part.

      • I’ll share a secret with you…I’m not into dudes but would love to see Mr. Guy featured in Playgirl

        beauty is beauty….!

      • LeaNder says:

        fem Ken doll

        I haven’t been over there for weeks, not the least bit of interest lately. I’ll check the more polite pro-Zimmerman camp though. Jeralyn Merritt called O’Mara’s closing innocence strategy risky. Which made me understand one comment he made in it.

        On the other hand was that his own way of somehow trying to weave the immunity SYG provision into the trial?

        But concerning the quote above that is no big surprise. Racism and sexism go hand in hand. Since he said something they did not like to hear they have to debase him in the worst way they can: not a real man.

        Obviously Guy is handsome, but what I appreciate much more is that he very well spoken man with quite a bit of emotional intelligence next to the what we usually call intelligence. I have to admit that I wonder if he wouldn’t have been able to get a murder 2, Bernie had a bit of a bad day. On the other hand I noticed that some like Bernie a lot better than Guy so it may have been OK, to split the closing argument up.

        • Yorazigo says:

          Which comment of MOM, LeaNdr?

          • LeaNder says:

            I cannot tell you verbatim, but he said something along the lines that most criminal defense lawyers would probably consider what he was doing now completely, forget what it was, unusual?
            And that, I think, was in the context of the larger argument, that he did not have to prove anything, that was the task of the prosecution.

            Remember in a Stand your Ground hearing the parts would have been reversed. Defense would have needed to prove the innocence of their client.

            Strictly when I heard him say it, I did not quite understand what and why criminal defense lawyers would not support what he did. But when I read Jeralyn’s comment I understood.

            In hindsight his recurring argument about somehow weaving the stand your ground rule or whatever in the trial came to mind.

            Did I get this over so my meandering mind waves can be somehow followed?

          • LeaNder says:

            We have a verdict.

    • Puck says:

      Like all those people who attended Tea Party rallies against Obamacare riding on their Medicare-subsidized Hoverounds.

    • willisnewton says:

      get the stuff at the grocery store to dry out your closet. Put the thing in a baggie with the stiff for TWO days and DON”T open it. It works sometimes and is faster than uncooked rice.

    • lady2soothe says:

      Just took a quick look myself… Those people (I say people in a very loose sense) are the most foul, disgusting, vile creatures.

      They are dissing the Juror’s, calling them names, accusing them of low IQ’s and basically spiting on them.

      The two good things I learned are: they seem to be passing around a migraine and tummy ache virus!

      • towerflower says:

        They are really losing control over there, more than normal. A few posts down there is a thread on MOM and SD really becomes unhinged calling some of his posters stupid. He really has started to lose it.

      • it’s fascinating, isn’t it?

        how they casually dehumanize and ridicule others.

        they are cruel.

        it’s striking to me that they feel as passionately about fogen’s innocence as I do his guilt.

        they are praying for a child killer to be set free…

        • lady2soothe says:

          @ edruminations:

          I feel we’re entitled to their opinion as to whether GZ was guilty or not guilty (he’ll never be innocent) but the slander and vile comments about Trayvon and the Family are so repulsive it’s hard to comprehend how someone can fester so much hatred without developing a flesh eating disease.

  315. mgs710 says:

    I’m praying for justice.

  316. willisnewton says:

    stay strong. Justice is coming.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i am starting to feel that way and it’s getting stronger!

      • ic2fools says:

        Here faux this may help give you a boost of confidence, how bad of a lawyer omar is.

        9 murder trials since 1994, 8 convicted and 1 in 1994 found
        not guilty by reason of insanity that has an upcoing court date this year, (damn 1994 cracra murder still locked up waiting for another court date.)

        Well you can see for yourself: look all of them are guilty verdict

        Omars last murder trial was about 2001

        1,) HELLER, ELIJAH DWAYNE 2nd Degree Murder
        Case No. 2001-CF-014575-B-O
        Confinement (Effective 08/23/2002 at 12:00 AM, Min. 10 Yr 0 Mo 0 Days , Max. 12 Yr 0 Mo 0 Days , Department of Corrections

        2.) MENDENHALL, FREDDIE SR Murder (attempt)
        Case No. 2001-MM-004941-A-O and Case No. 2001-CF-002229-A-O
        Inmate Booking Number: 01200195

        3.) SORIANO, ERNESTO Murder 1st Degree (attempt)\
        Adjudicated Guilty Case No. 2000-CF-014151-A-O
        Confinement (Effective 08/21/2001 at 12:00 AM, Min. , Max. 10 Yr 0 Mo 0 Days , Department of Corrections,

        case #2000-CF-011248-A-O
        there was a trial set 2/12/2001, but a subpoena issued on 5/13/3002 no sentencing, confinment info ?????

        5.) COOK, ROBERT BERNARD Case No. 1998-CF-009530-B-O
        Murder Capital Offense
        Adjudicated Guilty Jury Trial
        Confinement (Effective 08/08/2000 at 12:00 AM, Min. , Max. 5 Yr 6 Mo 9 Days , Department of Corrections

        6.) CROWE, KENNETH PAU Case No. 1997-CF-008611-A-O
        Found Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity
        Omar is working on this case Right Now!

        7.) COX, FREDERICK PETE 2nd Degree Murder
        Case No. 1997-CF-009401-A-O
        Adjudicated Guilty Adjudicated Guilty
        Confinement (Effective 01/17/2003 at 12:00 AM, Min. , Max. 999 Yr 99 Mo 98 Days , Department of Corrections,

        ****Whew 999 yrs!

        8,) THOMAS, JASON 2nd Degree Murder
        Case No. 1996-CF-011127-B-O
        Adjudicated Guilty Guilty (Admit)
        Confinement (Effective 04/18/1997 at 12:00 AM, Min. , Max. 6 Yr 0 Mo 0 Days , Department of Corrections

        9,) ORTIZ, OSCAR 1st Degree
        Case No. 1994-CF-003751-A-O
        – Adjudicated Guilty Jury Trial
        Confinement (Effective 12/08/1995 at 12:00 AM, Min. 3 Yr 0 Mo 0 Days , Max. 7 Yr 6 Mo 0 Days , Department of Corrections

        The rest of omars’ clients several Prostitues one took up much time Dianne Jewell she was truly a busy worker he spent a lot of time ‘defending’ her.

        He defended child abusers, sexual offenders, battery, theives, drug dealers, forgers, “ASSUALT OF OFFICERS”. more than divorce cases.

        Most of his ‘murder cases’ lasted over two years The arrangement, depo(?), court appearance file for attorney fees, the trial. then wishing his client well while being taken into custody,

        I see why omars closing is bad, never had to to one, I see why he filed friviouls motions lacking proper case law, he never had to before. This tells us him immaturity and why he whines, cries foul and wants other attorneys work product, He don’t know how to work a case.

        Omar got his hands on a case with money and enjoy scratching off his bucket list, he got to do only things he could dream of doing in a murder trial, plus upgraded that shanty he called an office with hookers,,pedophiles and crackheads running in and out.

        Wonder which intern he got to play pull the taffy with?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          all very interesting, thanks for finding and sharing those nuggets 🙂

          i’m hoping he’s ready to add another to the ‘lose’ column.

          • ic2fools says:

            i must add thanks to Xena she was able to go further with the search of omar murder cases than I.

            Xena posted:

            I narrowed the search down to cases between 1/01/2000 and 2001 and found 3 murder cases. All three changed their plea to Nolle Prosequi or Nolo Contendere. So, O’Mara didn’t litigate trial. Then, I narrowed the cases to those filed from 1/01/2011 through 1/01/2013. O’Mara had one murder case. The defendant was adjudicated guilty.

            Most of his criminal cases were traffic.

            See that Fauxie!!! ONE– ONE it was adjudicated guilty.

            All omar is good at is appearing for the defendant, filing indigent motions, motion for attorneys and plead not guilty.

            they be thre with the cuffs are placed on the defendant and wish him goodbye. then omar stops by his POBox to pice up his court check payment for fees.

            o’myLoserass ain’t about to start getting NG verdicts unless it is reason by insanity. and that guy has been in prision for 11 years waiting for these upcoming 2013 hearngs.!

  317. Sophia33 says:


  318. Rachael says:

    thank you!

  319. Marsha says:

    I’m here!

  320. TheUsualSuspects says:

    My comment moved over from previous thread:

    The question I hope comes back from the jury: “To find the defendant guilty of manslaughter, what did the prosecution have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt?”

    I think this would allow JN to block the defense from shoving the excusable homicide part of the instruction down the jurors’ throats.

    • newmediacounsel says:

      Isn’t the jury already aware that self defense would navigate both M2 and man?What would be the point of repeating that?

      • Rachael says:

        do you mean negate? their question was about manslaughter so apparently they are trying to differentiate between manslaughter and M2. I guess they obviously understand what self-defense would mean, and if they thought that he acted in self-defense, there wouldn’t be a whole lot of reason to consider much else, but I do get the feeling they want to make sure of everything, so AFAIC, nothing is off the table. They just want clarification. No point trying to read anything into it. They’ll let us know. Ughhhhh. The waiting is killing me. All my hair is turning gray.

        • Puck says:

          I still feel the logical thing to do as a first step is decide on the issue of self-defense, because if they agreed it was, that’s an automatic acquittal and they would have been able to go home by now.

          • ay2z says:

            But, that would play right into the defense hands, as ‘self-defence’ began during the NEN call, at the T according to the defendant, and farther down, according to the physical evidenc including the body, the tactical flashlight, the victim’s phone, the victim’s ear buds still in his ears, the shell casing including fragments.

            I still think the small keyfob flashlight, was a marker for the killer, that way he would not mistake the direction if he got to the south ‘t’ that looks the same.

            The state suggested }start at the beginning, to do otherwise would be unfair. Unfair.”. The biginning does not take into accound, Trayvon at the 711 and leaving to walk home. It does not take into account, the mindset and background, as stated each and every time, by the defendant, from the first interview.

            Can’t start with self defense because then deciding that it is self defense, how do you understand who was the aggressor, who had a right to defend themselves, including Trayvon.’

            Can’t start with self-defense, to be ‘fair’ evaluation of all the evidence, only fair for the killer on trial, to rely on his self-serving words.

          • newmediacounsel says:


            But there’s no dispute about the homicide itself. Only whether its justified. If you have decided its unjustified, the only question is to what degree.

        • cielo62 says:

          If the question is about how many years manslaughter brings, I don’t think JN could answer that.

          • ay2z says:

            right, the jury must not be thinking about sentnce or that could influence their decision of guilt on any of the charges,

      • TheUsualSuspects says:


        Read the jury instruction on page 10: http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf. The excusable killing exception is included (yes, repeated) as part of the manslaughter instruction.

        • Puck says:

          And if self-defense is off the table, GZ is most definitely guilty of manslaughter at least — the facts themselves prove the elements.

      • newmediacounsel says:


        Yes, I meant negate.

        I agree with your view of the question. We just don’t know what it means, if anything.

        @The Usual

        That’s why I would think there’s no reason to repeat it.

      • ic2fools says:

        What your asking us here at the Leatherman Blog? Haven’t your friendly posters and buddies at the tree house given you the answer to that question yet. they have the direct line to omara and west.

        Quite sure Mr. Cracker has plenty of theories waiting for you.

        Now you best skip your happy ass back over your tree house before you miss that answer.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Go back to your home the conservative tree house where you use the same username. Leave us alone.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      the jurors can only communicate through their forewoman and the judge and only in writing.

      o’mara has no chance of confusing anything for the jury at this point.

      • TheUsualSuspects says:

        Hi there, faux. I trust you’re well.

        That wasn’t really the point of my post. Having been on three criminal juries, I’m aware of the process.

        Not sure if you heard MO’M during the brief court session, but he was making an early argument that he wants the excusable killing part of the manslaughter instruction included in whatever the court clarifies to the jury. I hope that does not happen because it will only confuse the jury even more.