Closing arguments start today in Zimmerman case

Thursday, July 11, 2013

Good morning:

Hold on to your hats!

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.

See you in court.


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1,047 Responses to Closing arguments start today in Zimmerman case

  1. smokeegyrl says:

    I don’t want to record O’Mara in the morning… don’t make me … please don’t make me… *sobbing*… I don’t want to puke over everybody… I just want to record John Guy… is that okay….

  2. Dee says:

    Zimmerman is dazing with this strange stare. He knows that all of those lies he said now doesn’t seem so creditably when you hear it back to you.

  3. Dee says:

    Zimmerman shacking his head only make him look stupid. Because if he wasn’t saying it correctly, the juries are just going to say. Why didn’t he just get up and tell us what truly happened.

  4. Dee says:

    They should have let Mentei do this or Guy, why did they let him do closing, I don’t understand.

  5. MedicineBear says:

    Did the Defendant cut him off?

    • MedicineBear says:

      Notice fogen’s eyes start blinking faster when BDLR mentions (FOR THE FIRST TIME!) “Did the Defendant move ahead and cut Trayvon off from getting home?”!

      • towerflower says:

        I noticed that, seems like he is getting angry at his decision not to testify. He has a need to talk, in his mind he was right and can convince others of it if he can only talk.

  6. bellesouth says:

    ARGH. GZ didn’t say Just say that I killed him, did he? I thought he said Just tell her I shot someone.

  7. colin black says:

    hope shellies. she lies.

    Trial is tetevised.

  8. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Good morning everyone. Sitting in the corner sipping on my cup of French Roast coffee,

  9. Nef05 says:

    Missed most of this . Clarify PLEASE:

    Jury can consider murder 2 but NOT “not guilty”? (Source: HLN) That doesn’t make sense.

    “Manslaughter”, which is automatically Agg. Man w/+10 yr enhancement (told ya, hehehe, joking – But I did call manslaughter from jump. IJS) 35-life

    Felony Murder 3 – but without the underlying child abuse thing?

    ALL THREE get sentenced to 25-life (except agg man which is 35-life because of +10 enhancement) for the 10/20/life gun law.

  10. Romaine says:

    JN fails with lack of understanding and knowledge of laws she should be familiar with, I don’t agree with the I don’t know or am not sure, so i’m not going to allow…it is her job to find out get an understanding and make a concrete decision…

  11. colin black says:


  12. silk says:

    this may sound crazey , but the way the judge has been ruling and the state has been playin, i would LOVE to see a mistrail!!!

  13. BREAKING: Judge Nelson says she won’t give jury the option of finding Zimmerman guilty of third degree murder.

  14. Sophia33 says:

    So what are all of the lesser included charges

    1. M2
    2. Manslaughter
    3. Assault with a deadly weapon (?)

  15. degraveegmailcom says:

    I know some of you don’ believe in the science behind eyesforlies but this article is very acurate IMO.

  16. colin black says:

    Thers so FRANTIC

    There debateing SEMANTICS.

  17. fauxmccoy says:

    o’mara wearing his ‘good’ lucky suit.
    bernie will look like your average joe who has to wear a suit for work.

    wonder which is more real to the jury?

  18. Yorazigo says:

    Shellie in courtroom for closings

  19. fauxmccoy says:

    corey getting involved with jury instructions.

  20. disappointed says:

    Corey helping out?

  21. Woow! says:

    Professor why did JN take out felony murder?

  22. KateW says:

    Welp no felony murder.

  23. colin black says:



  24. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    JN concerns me..but pray for the family…

  25. disappointed says:

    Denied? So is it just murder 2 or manslaughter?

  26. Murder 3rd jury instruction –> out

  27. looolooo says:

    JN….. I don’t need you to do that…… where have we heard that before?

  28. colin black says:

    no thid degee child abuse

    nae bother he is going DOWN MURDER TWO WILL DO!

  29. Sophia33 says:

    Damn! No third degree murder.

  30. Sleuth says:

    Alright Warriors, We’re Waging War, and asking the Lord to send His fire. Hoodies Up!

  31. colin black says:

    more case law a couple of final certainly going in.

  32. breelee says:

    Ugg, creepy Unc and Creepier fogenpapa in court. barf

    • looolooo says:

      Just how can fogen’s very dramatic uncle be a Sheriff’s Deputy? He can b a r e l y speak English! He should be laughed into retirement by his fellow officer’s for his ridiculous testimony.

  33. breelee says:

    Why would fogen say they always get away, if Burgess was caught? Hope the jury catches that. If he gets off, THATS when we should say that a**holes always gets away.

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      Ahh, but released prior to Feb 26 and he knew it because home invasion lady said she received a letter stating such

    • towerflower says:

      In an interview with Singleton she also mentions how in previous calls in which they caught the suspects and how they didn’t always get away.

  34. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I’m praying for :GUILTY.” This liar stole a boys death cry for help.

  35. pork que says:

    The Killer thinks he’s a lawyer now … what a freak

  36. Dee says:

    The clan is in the house.

  37. Sabrina B. says:

    See She Lie sitting there smirking?

  38. chi1224 says:

    I always go back to those screams. They haunt me and Fogen’s attempt to steal them make him beyond “depraved”. If the jury believes the screams are from Trayvon, I think Fogen will get a second degree murder conviction, I really do.
    If we put all the common sense aside such as what man with a gun screams for dear life, and the shot silencing the screams…. look who Fogen had for ID- a bunch of obviously biased idiots. Even his mother and especially the uncle were not credible. The jury will wonder why his OWN WIFE didn’t ID the screams. Then we have Fogen’s credibility. If you were in a situation where your life was truly in danger and you were truly screaming and it was caught on tape– why not take the stand?? I don’t care what the instructions say, no way that goes unnoticed by the jury.

    Then we have Sabrina. The most credible witness of all.


    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      I agree… but at the end of the day, I just want GZ to be punished by the law in some form or fashion, i.e. Jail time! I hope the jury does the reasonable thing and discount the killers story and use common sense to see something is a foul here, then charge him accordingly….

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      That is what I believe too. If the jury believes it was Trayvon who was screaming, they’ll go for m2.

  39. My Forehead Tho says:

    The 3 possible verdicts reminds me of a business strategy (forgot the name). If the state is using this strategy, a murder 2 conviction is likely

    What businesses do is they give the customer an option of 3 choices: Buy product 1, buy product 2, or buy product 3,. All the products are very similar, but they make the 3rd product seem appealing by making the 2nd product seem ridiculous; thus making the 3rd product look too good to be true and the obvious choice. Example:

    Small Popcorn: $2.00
    Medium Popcorn: $6.50
    Large Popcorn: $7.00

    Natgeo performed this very experiment and found that almost every person who wanted popcorn bought the large.

    This is what I believe the State is attempting to do by giving the jurors 3 choices.

    • chi1224 says:

      LOL cute analogy and it makes sense…. but I still think it’s VERY possible Fogen gets second degree if the jury believes he shot a kid screaming for his life.
      But even if they do compromise– I will be okay as long as Fogen gets a nice long prison sentence.

  40. colin black says:

    so I wont be talkin to meself agin resting testing is ther a knew thread Fred?

  41. sadlyyes says:

    if i a short little lady was walking home from the store,i would have made it home,Foagy decided to be COP,JUDGE JURY,EXECUTIONER …the end…oh forgot G-D!

  42. willisnewton says:

    Is there and afternoon thread yet? Just getting back after a quick bite.

    this is ninth inning, Bernie. You better connect. We are all counting on you to swing for the fences and get some.

  43. Dee says:

    Exactly, and Zimmerman shows no remorse at all for taking a life of a kid who was not armed. Now it will be God’s will that he is about to go to jail. That’s God will, Zimmerman best friend, at least that what Frank Taafee calls himself. Satan on Jane Mitchell that he is going to pay for pizza for everybody on the show then they can celebrate with him. I thought this was the low of the lowest, when a family has lost his life over nothing.

    However, the hate in someone else’s heart, this man is going to do jail time at least 10-20 years. What crazy West didn’t know that he could get this amount of years in Florida, just for the gun laws. So if he is not found guilty for 2nd degree or man slaughter, the jury can give lesser charges, which will still give Zimmerman.
    10 to 20 years can give him with the lesser charges that give him the same jail time regardless, as manslaughter because of the tough gun laws, in Florida..

    Trust me these woman will find something less which still holds the same sentencing so lets hold on it and continue to pray that Trayvon get justice.

  44. pork que says:

    Hmmm … so if the Killer (Zimmerman) had been standing on the Train tracks and so much as even “thought” the oncoming train would do him “great bodily harm” West would argue that Zimmerman could blow the train up

  45. Sophia33 says:

    When is she going to rule on 3rd degree murder?

  46. degraveegmailcom says:

    You think?
    I hope.

  47. disappointed says:

    So closing starts in 35 minutes?

  48. smokeegyrl says:

    Almost done with my bedroom… get ready to make my bed… pretending the sheets are when I flick them… I am go to flick them so dang hard… it will automatically iron them with fierce hot heat to iron them flat… I’m so angered… wishing he was at the other end of them… assaulted by a deadly weapon… “sheeted to injurious coma”.

  49. Woow! says:

    I read John Guy will be prosecuting Michael Dunn after this trial is over.

  50. Boyd says:

    Anyone wonder why Fogen didn’t drive to the back entrance instead got out of the car?

    • disappointed says:

      Cause that would be the smart thing to do. Plus you can
      t drive down the dog walk to put your filthy hands on a teen driving on the street.

    • whonoze says:

      Adrenaline and booze.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      probably because at that point, he knew that emmanuel burgess (the guy that did break into the last witness’ home) lived in the area. he knew that burgess had been jailed and released. i’m guessing he thought trayvon was burgess or a friend.

      there are many reasonable things he could have done, he chose none of them.

      • Boyd says:

        That’s what I believe.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          expect to see it in closing.
          will the jury convict? we don’t know and only they can say.

          i suspect they will on something within the wide range of options the judge has already ruled on in favor of the state. if convicted of anything, this judge does sentence to maximum allowable.

          i asked you before and i will again. after what you just saw, do you really think the state is throwing the case or the judge is in on it?

      • elcymoo says:

        I think Burgess was the perp in two separate crimes, and that he was released after the first one. He committed the second burglary in early February, and was nabbed again in late February, before GZ stalked, shot and killed Trayvon. He knew that Burgess had already been arrested. It’s not clear to me whether he’d been released the second time or not. I think GZ might have been ticked off because the stucco guys got the credit for informing the police about Burgess, after all those hours he’d spent commiserating with one of the victims of the burglaries.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          ok, i think your details on burgess are more accurate once i see them. i do expect that to be part of closing, however.

      • Malisha says:

        Burgess had not been released.
        It was two days before rent-day and he had no money.
        The HOA had complaints about him running around with his gun.
        He was staging a little performance to save himself from the natural consequences of being an a55-hole-loser-punk-failure.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          all of that may be true, malisha, but we know none of that is in evidence and we know what is. draw logical conclusions from there.

    • uhoh says:

      Because “they always get away.”

  51. gwynne says:

    I will be interested to see mom’s demeanor when he finally makes an appearance. I’ll bet he’s proud of the performance put on my his #1 guy westy today! lol

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      Til 1 pm, but they are always late, they still have to argue the 3rd degree murder charge, maybe just the child abuse part, I’m not sure on that,

  52. Judy A Vallejos says:

    I think that asshole even laughed when he was talking about it

  53. Woow! says:

    Manslaughter you usually need an intent but not an intent to kill. CAC intended to kill whoever he caught that night. If convicted of Manslaughter, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 9¼ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:

    Up to 30 years in prison.
    Up to 30 years of probation.
    Up to $10,000 in fines.
    Murder 1 is committed when you commit the killing in an extremely cruel way where there’s a lot of torture involved. The crime of First Degree Murder is designated a Capital Offense and only has two possible sentences:

    Death, or
    Life without the possibility of parole.

    The child was tortured take the death penalty off the table and give him life.


    Murder 2 you’ve just killed somebody but not in a terribly terrible way. Usually you don’t receive the death penalty for that and you don’t have to spend your entire life in prison. If convicted of Second Degree Murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 16¾ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:

    Up to Life in prison.
    Up to Life on probation.
    Up to $10,000 in fines.

    Under Florida’s 10-20-Life law, a person who uses a Firearm to commit Second Degree Murder must be sentenced to a minimum-mandatory prison sentence of 25 years.

    Murder 3 – unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse. It is also to unintentionally kill a person while committing, or attempting to commit, a non-violent felony. CAC was violent and he intended to do what he did. If convicted of Third Degree Murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 10⅓ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:

    Up to 15 years in prison.
    Up to 15 years of probation.
    Up to $10,000 in fines.

    M3 is too light a sentence for CAC.

    • Boyd says:

      I’ll take anything I can get.

      • anita says:

        ~boyd M3 is too light, but I think you’re right, take what we can get.

      • disappointed says:

        Exactly. At this point if he hears the word guilty whether fogen likes it or not he will finally be told you WERE wrong. Plus I can not state enough times he will lose his gun. If he walks he can do this again and again because he will always be in fear. He is pee wee herman, just the fat ass version.

        • looolooo says:

          disappointed, fogen is NO PeeWee Herman. Remember, he has a long history of confronting, bullying and brazenly assaulting people whether known to him or unknown to him. He is NO coward! He is a willful violent, sociopathic, drug addicted, megalomaniacal, murdering THUG!!!! Who’s reign of terror MUST be STOPPED!!!!

          As much as I HATE fogen, my feelings for mom, west, his family and his string of lying, despicable defense witnesses are somehow even stronger, and I wish them an even worse fate for their part in this unconscionable assault on Trayvon and his broken hearted parents.

    • diary73 says:

      These penalties are increased with the Florida fire arm provision.

    • DruDo says:

      Did I miss that part or isn’t there an additional mandatory 10 years for killing a minor with a firearm?

    • Malisha says:

      They’re trying to make a record to get Nelson off the case before sentencing.

  54. Judy A Vallejos says:

    yes and it was stated by the dumbfense own expert witness that the shooting was intentional to cause death why else would you shoot someone in the heart ? instead of say the leg or arm same would be if you shot them in the head that is considered a kill shot for sure

  55. YQ says:

    Mantei curve-balled the defense with Felony Murder. LOL Those damned lawyers are a trip. If that charge gets in, the defense is toast bc they didn’t prepare for that one. Too busy arguing about who was on top and injuries. Jury could have 3 options: Murk-2, Aggrivated Manslaughter, or Felony Murder of a Minor. Damn good strategy by the State.

    • Boyd says:

      good one, JN better let it in, but I don’t think she will

    • diary73 says:

      He did. I personally think that the child abuse spin is a stretch, but I hope they get it in. Not expecting it though.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I don’t know what the penalty is for 3rd degree murder, but I so much like the idea that it would be accompanied with felony child abuse. It restores the proper order.
      He was a 17 year old, he wasn’t even allowed to carry a gun to protect him self with. I think it would absolutely destroy GZ’s sense of self worth.

  56. pork que says:

    According to West, the Killer (zimmerman) was “justified” in killing an unarmed teenager if the killer so much as “thought” the unarmed teenager would cause him “great bodily harm”

    But — but — but according to West, the unarmed teenager was NOT allowed to use “deadly force” if that unarmed teenager so much as “thought” the killer was going to kill him.

    • YQ says:

      True… I thought that self-defense instructions could have included Trayvon. It makes better sense that way.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        that is exactly what you should expect the state to argue based on what you just heard. they have said it before that the victim here had every right to defend himself.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      yes, that is basically their ‘case’.

      i hope the jury sees it differently and the state can make it clear what a ‘not guilty’ verdict would mean — that no woman being followed down a dark alley could defend herself if an armed man got within an arms reach of her or that no child who cannot arm themselves by law could not use self defense under fear of harm.

    • Boyd says:

      You right, turn it right back on him.

      West also said Trayvon told DeeDee “I lost him” Trayvon must have been happy about it else why say it? So why does he come back? Totally illogical!!

      • KateW says:

        Good point. Hopefully the prosecution can put it all together in the end.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        boyd, this has been the state’s position all along, that the defendant put trayvon in fear for his life (assault) and as such, trayvon had the right to defend himself. furthermore, since the defendant was the aggressor, he has no right to self defense.

        do you really thing they are not prosecuting to the fullest or that the judge is in on it now?

        • Boyd says:

          No, I’m concerned the case is confusing for the Jury. We’ve had a year to digest it. If the jurors were not lying they’ve had several weeks hearing both sides.

          I’m still confused on the fight. And I should be because it’s all speculation. Dr. DeMaio version of what happened? There are numerous positions the shot could have occurred, as Mr. Guy said.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            the thing about the fight, boyd, is that no one will ever really know. remember the state on the ruling to acquit when they said to the effect that there were 2 people in a conflict, one of them is dead and the other a liar.

            regarding jury confusion — that is what we just witnessed the elimination by preparation of jury instructions. the state’s argument will be tailored with available testimony and evidence to convict on the wide range of choices, but arguing M2 the hardest.

            of course, it is always in the hands of a jury. i think the fact it is 6 women makes the ‘if a rapist were following you, what would you do?’ an effective argument.

  57. Judy A Vallejos says:

    she just said “date of the crime”

    that indicates there was a crime

    and @pork que … no permit? I did not know that ? I thought he had legal permit for CCW

    is this true? please someone tell me it is true no legal permit ????

    • Sabrina B. says:

      He had a CCW. They just added a poor copy into evidence yesterday.

      • pork que says:

        But, CCW does NOT allow the CCW holder to take a loaded weapon and search for someone who is RUNNING AWAY unless that person running away was seen committing a felony.

        Read Florida Law on Class G permit and you will find that in the State of Florida ONLY a Class G permit allows a person to carry a loaded weapon to search for someone on behalf of law enforcement.

        Therefore, since West keeps saying the killer was searching for Trayvon on behalf of SPD which means, by Florida Law, Zimmerman should have unloaded his gun, locked it in his car BEFORE he went searching for Trayvon on behalf of SPD.

        • Boyd says:


        • Sabrina B. says:

          Oh, I believe you 100%. He has so many excuses going that is one of the many. “Keep an eye on for police. Get an address. Walking in the same direction. Going back to car.” All B.S.

        • Malisha says:

          I don’t think he can say he was searching for Trayvon on behalf of SPD; Sean told him: “We [SPD] don’t need you to do that.”

          Pretty clear that he was not “on assignment.”

        • towerflower says:

          Class G licenses are required of security guards and private investigators. Z did not violate any law when he left his vehicle with a loaded gun.

          He was not an employee of the SPD therefore he was not acting on behalf of law enforcement. The law does not state that a CCW cannot follow someone with a gun. In fact this is what a State pamphlet says about it: “The law permits you to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for self-defense. Carrying a concealed weapon or firearm DOES NOT MAKE YOU A FREELANCE POL,ICEMAN or a “good Samaritan.”

          I am a CCW holder and can teach the required firearm Safety portion of the license.

    • pork que says:

      CCW does NOT allow the person to take their loaded weapon and search for a person who is running away from them when that person RUNNING AWAY has NOT committed any felony.

      In the State of Florida ONLY a Class G permit allows a person to carry a loaded weapon to search for someone on behalf of law enforcement.

      West keeps saying the killer was searching for Trayvon on behalf of SPD which means, by Florida Law, Zimmerman should have unloaded his gun, locked it in his car BEFORE he went searching for Trayvon on behalf of SPD.

      • towerflower says:

        The CCW license does not state this. A holder can carry on their person for self-defense, it does not state anything about following someone. Here are the links for licensing and the law.

        Chapter 776 is the Florida Statues covering use of force.

        Also from a Q and A from the state:

        Q. What if I see a Crime being committed? (remember Z thought TM was committing or about to commit a crime).
        A: A license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. (TM was not) Also, if the criminal runs away, YOU CANNOT USE DEALDY FORCE TO STOP HIM, because you would no longer be “preventing” a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

        If you see from above it is not a crime to follow, it would be a crime to shoot TM running away. This is not what happened and Z is using the defense that he was attacked by TM and because he was on his back with TM on top that he had no way to retreat.

        Also from another pamphlet that the State gives you:

        “the amount of force that you use to defend yourself must not be excessive under these circumstances:
        *Never use deadly force in self-defense unless you are afraid that if you don’t, you will be killed or seriously injured;
        *Verbal threats never justify your use of deadly force;
        *If you think someone has a weapon and will use it unless you kill them, be sure you are right and not overreacting to the situation.:

        Z received these pamphlets when he got his CCW. He knew the requirements hence his repeated comments about I thought my head would explode and I thought I was losing consciousness and his comments about his head being repeatedly slammed on the concrete–serious injury could be incurred. His problem is his excuses do not match the evidence.

        I am a NRA Instructor for Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol and Home Safety. I also hold a RSO rating. These credentials give me the ability to teach the required safety portion for a CCW. I’m sorry Pork but you are misreading/interpreting the laws.

  58. MichelleO says:

    PROFESSOR: Can you tell us what you think about what has transpired in court today? And of the trial so far? Thank you!

  59. Judy A Vallejos says:

    after verdict is read and penalty imposed the media will not be making $$ off riot news

    they will forever be showing west mouthing off in court and JDN will be penalizing him after this trial is over and that will be the news and the shock of that to some will be exhilarating to watch LOL

    • KateW says:

      She’s already shown she won’t penalize anyone. Too bad Judge Lester was dismissed because after seeing first hand the lies told to him in court, I think he would have put the hammer down.

      • anita says:

        Yes, Judge Lester didn’t hide his thoughts about fogen. He had the Zimms’ number doen. He saw them for exactly what they are.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          and that is why lester is dismissed and nelson has not. she has hid her own feelings quite well. wait until sentencing where she has broad discretion and note that the jury instructions are as favorable as they can be toward the state.

  60. pork que says:

    The Killer did NOT have a Class G weapons permit. Therefore, if the Killer wants to claim he was searching for Trayvon on behalf of the SPD, then, BY LAW the Killer should have unloaded his gun, locked it in his car BEFORE he searched for Trayvon.

    • towerflower says:

      pork, It was only in the killer’s mind that he was working on behalf of the SPD. He had no official or unofficial position within the SPD nor was he a contractor for them. A Class-G license is issued for security guards. Z was not a security guard. He held a CCW for Florida and by law he could carry it anywhere it was legal to carry it although he ignored the NW program rules of never being armed.

      He violated no law in respect to not having a Class G permit or unloading it and locking it in his car.

  61. Sophia33 says:


    Can you explain why the defense never mentioned aggravated stalking?

    • YQ says:

      good point, following is included in the instructions under aggrivated stalking and that is Federal Law.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      the state did not ask for those instructions as a separate crime, likely because there is a dead body and more serious crimes apply. they are asking for a whole bunch of child abuse instructions, which the judge already indicated her understanding that they would be included. she is merely giving west the time he asked to research the matter since he was unprepared yet again. her failing to give him some time would be grounds for appeal.

      • Puck says:

        I wonder how many of these emails the defense whines about having just received on a given morning were in fact sent the night before and they just didn’t check their email until the morning?

  62. pork que says:

    If a woman is being followed by some freak in a car, then she runs away from that freak — that freak can then, according to West, take his loaded gun, search for that woman and KILL HER so long as that freak even THINKS the woman may cause “great bodily harm” if she uses self defense

    • fauxmccoy says:

      yes, according to west.
      the state will argue differently and probably include an argument similar to yours before a jury of 6 women. i think they’ll get it.

    • breelee says:

      Yep. If she scratches him while he’s raping her, I guess he has the right to murder her. Then they get to trash her in court and her family. Our laws suck.

      If anyone has Netflix or can find it online, you should watch “Girl 27”. It left me stunned for days.

  63. willisnewton says:

    Rachael Jeantel (sp) just got a boost from the judge. She is my hero in this whole case. Her courage is inspiring.

    • KateW says:

      I honestly think she is just doing her job.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      Willis, I missed that, what did the judge say about Rachel?

    • Sophia33 says:

      What did the judge say?

      • KateW says:

        The judge said that because a tape played for Rachel was outside the court and they only read a transcript of what was played in court, the tape (exhibit BB) could not be introduced into evidence or given to the jury in the back for deliberation purposes.

        Did I say that right? Not good at this court stuff.

    • diary73 says:

      I missed that one, Willis. What did she say?

    • smokeegyrl says:

      I don’t know about Judge Nelson… she scares the hell out of me… she there one minute then I see her more for the defense then I see her for the state on critical motions… ever since this started… I seen the faces of West and Fogen when she let Donnelly stay… it was like they hit a jack pot… I haven’t heard anything about John Goode yet… what is up with that?

      • Sabrina B. says:

        State didn’t make an issue of Goode, though he and the last woman was mentioned. Defense tried to argue in defense of Goode and she kept saying the state is not making that an issue. Just Donnelly.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          there would be a calculated reason as i see it.

          1. good only claims to have seen 10 seconds and did not see any ‘blows’ from trayvon (this is good evidence for state to use in closing). and
          2. last woman entered testimony regarding state of mind (defendant met with her 20 times to discuss the ‘case’ of the break in at her house AND defendant knew that the suspect from that burglary lived in the complex, had been arrested and was now released.

          my take — the state will argue that the defendant mistook trayvon for burgess or a friend and that’s why he followed, intending to ‘catch’ for the police. also will claim that there is no proof other than the lying defendant’s word that his injuries were a cause of trayvon. they could not make that argument without the above testimony.

  64. Stormwatch says:

    West knows nothing about state rules of criminal procedure, state statutes, or state case law.

  65. gwynne says:

    west: waaaaaaa!!!!

  66. Rachael says:

    I missed most of this – but the prosecution won’t get their last rebuttal witness?

    • Sophia33 says:

      I don’t think so.

    • willisnewton says:

      Mantei told WESH tv that the witness was “unavailable” and therefor not going to appear. He’s undercover, that may be a reason or else he is biased in favor of the defendant, who knows?

      It’s a real loss I’d say. I’m not sure why the state can’t find another way to get it in. But I’m not a layer.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        the defendant battered him, i doubt he’s in his corner, although it is always possible. undercover or other reasons are entirely possible. am i disappointed? yes.

        • MedicineBear says:

          Yeah, I thought Serino and Singleton would be stand-up human beans, too, but they toed the “official line.” I saw a “duper’s delight” smirk flash across fogen’s mouth when the rebuttal witness’ name came up. I think he knew this rebuttal witness would not show. The whole SPD stinks.

    • KateW says:

      What last rebuttal witness?

  67. Woow! says:

    A guy on meth tried to car jack my son in May and he shot the guy in the leg (hip). The bullet went straight threw. The guy left the scene and my son called the police.They charged him with second degree attempted murder. The robber said he did not want to press charges and the DA is still going after him citing excessive force.

    A hyped up white guy on meth tries to rob you at gun point, you shoot to stop not kill and you still get charge with murder if you are black.

    • Woow! says:


      • MedicineBear says:

        That seriously sucks — my heart goes out to you.

        The reality is, the laws are written to protect paranoid CACs. Those who use deadly force (a gun) are doomed if they draw their weapon and don’t use it to kill. Like the woman who shot into the ceiling, she got twenty years for threatening with a gun.

        It’s totally fucked up. But CCWs (both sane and crazies) pretty much KNOW that you don’t draw unless you absolutely must to save your life, and you ONLY draw your weapon if you intend to KILL (deadly force). It’s illegal to use a weapon to scare someone, wound someone, or frighten one.

        The CAC crazies have condensed these NRA-friendly laws down to: If you draw your weapon, shoot to kill (shoot at “center mass”), and then tell your story (plus set the scene) to satisfy the conditions to claim self defense.

        Your son is not cynical enough to take a life just to cover his own behind. Bless his heart!

        Crazy gun-toting CACs don’t seem to have a problem with killing a person and lying just to walk free.

        I am absolutely sure fogen-CAC killed this kid to shut him up (CYA) and then lied and planted evidence to claim self defense.

        These laws are DEPRAVED and only work well for those with DEPRAVED MINDS. We live in a sick, sick society.

        May Mother-Father God Bless you and your son with unimaginable Grace. Aho!

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      That is insane, do you have a lawyer? I will pray for you all

    • chi1224 says:

      Unbelievable! I sincerely hope things work out okay for your son!

    • KateW says:

      Good example of what is going on all over America. They are on a witch hunt to eliminate the Black population in this country by murder, incarceration or promoting genocide.

      • KateW says:

        People keep saying had Trayvon shot Zimmerman and claimed he was defending himself, the boy would have been incarcerated, tried as an adult and convicted and sentenced for years. I have a friend in prison now, they gave him 30 years, they said he retaliated against a man that killed his brother; however, the witnesses all said it wasn’t him, but yet there he sits behind bars fighting his case.

      • anita says:

        They for damn sure want to stop blacks from voting.Thats so they can take complete power over us all.

    • breelee says:

      Omg Woow, that’s insane! I’m so glad your son wasn’t hurt, but so sad that he and you, have to go through this. Prayers just sent.

  68. fauxmccoy says:

    west — unaware that 10-20-life does not apply to lesser included charges. what planet is he on???

  69. Sophia33 says:


    I want special treatment. {West}

  70. chi1224 says:

    I don’t understand her ruling on great bodily harm… can somebody please explain? Is she saying as long as fogen THOUGHT he was going to get great bodily hard it was okay to kill Trayvon?

    • degraveegmailcom says:

      IMO yes.

      • diary73 says:

        His thought process had to be reasonable and he must be telling the truth about what happened. Typically, catching a dependent in a lie does not equate to a conviction, but with self-defense, the reasons given for taking a life better be truthful. That is the one element that many legal heads tend to leave out.

        Credibility of the defendant is everything in a self defense case.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      that is the law, though

      state wanted language from another offense which had nothing to do with self defense containing a definition of ‘great bodily harm’ into the jury instruction for self defense.

      we may not like it, but it was the correct legal ruling. the problem is with the self defense laws and their inherent vagueness.

      • chi1224 says:

        But the jury still has to believe that Fogen was being “reasonable” don’t they? I mean otherwise crazy people could go around killing people and claim they were afraid of them?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          oh of course and the state will be clear about what ‘reasonable’ is … defense will differ of course. bottom line is it’s a decision for the jury.

          these jury instructions give the state lots of room to work with and the 10-20-life ensures that there are serious penalties if convicted on any one of them.

        • elle says:

          Yes. Hopefully the jurors are actual reasonable women, and they know crazy and unreasonable when they see it.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Here are the jury instructions

          Give if applicable.  § 782.02, Fla. Stat.
          The use of deadly force is justifiable only if the defendant reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to [himself] [herself] while resisting:

      1.    another’s attempt to murder [him] [her], or

      2.    any attempt to commit (applicable felony) upon [him] [her], or

      3.    any attempt to commit (applicable felony) upon or in any dwelling, residence, or vehicle occupied by [him] [her].

          Insert and define applicable felony that defendant alleges victim attempted to commit.

          Give if applicable.  §§ 776.012, 776.031, Fla. Stat.
          A person is justified in using deadly force if [he] [she] reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent

      1.    imminent death or great bodily harm to [himself] [herself] or another, or

      2.    the imminent commission of (applicable forcible felony) against [himself] [herself] or another.
          Insert and define applicable forcible felony that defendant alleges victim was about to commit. Forcible felonies are listed in § 776.08, Fla. Stat.

      So if the jury believes that a reasonable person, in the same situation would believe deadly force was necessary.

  71. Two sides to a story says:

    Any time man’s law doesn’t honor what we know to be divine law, karma takes over. So the defense can harp on law all they want, but doesn’t make fogen’s acts just or moral. And no one can save Fogen from karmic law – that’s self-inflicted.

  72. KateW says:

    Same argument Michael Dunn of Florida, who shot Jordan Davis in his car because his music was too loud. He claims he was in reasonable fear for his life because the kid opened the door. So if every move we make makes someone in fear for their life then let the shooting begin. He must not have been that fearful because he went and got pizza afterwards. Perhaps to celebrate the killing of a minor Black child.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Cowboy days!!!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You know that dummy is going for some hard time.

    • towerflower says:

      Kate, Dunn first told the police that someone in the car pointed a gun at him, no gun was found in the car. We have had several shootings in which the person swore that the person shot had a weapon or going for one and none were found. They didn’t work and it won’t work in Dunn’s case.

  73. pork que says:

    I need to restate:

    West says you can SEARCH for someone — who was RUNNING AWAY from you — then kill them so long as you just “think” that person might cause you “great bodily harm”

    In short, West is saying it’s ok to KILL the person who is RUNNING AWAY from you if you THINK THEY will use self defense when you catch them.

    • MedicineBear says:

      “In short, West is saying it’s ok to KILL the person who is RUNNING AWAY from you if you THINK THEY will use self defense when you catch them.”

      That sums it up.

    • Malisha says:

      It’s OK to kill someone who resists you.
      That actually was the law (written down, in fact) for many years in many places. But the “you” who was not allowed to be resisted had to be a white man. Oh, that’s right … he still is.

  74. pork que says:

    West says that all … ALL … you can SEARCH for someone — who was RUNNING AWAY from you — then kill them so long as you just “think” that person might cause you “great bodily harm”

    In short, West is saying it’s ok to KILL the person who is RUNNING AWAY from you if you THINK THEY will use self defense

    • willisnewton says:

      Guess what? That’s a good paraphrase of what the courts have ruled in some cases. Our laws are messed up and out courts have made some terrible decisions that set bad precedents.

      But the jury has great power here to not go there.

      • pork que says:

        Well — there you have it. The Killer is a piece of shit and the law is a piece of shit.

        Someone should call the FBI and tell them to STOP teaching people how to “defend” themselves against freaks who follow them with loaded weapons.

  75. Tzar says:

    “Mr. Martin did not have to lay a finger on Mr. Zimmerman, as long as Mr. Zimmerman reasonably believed that his life was in danger”

    paraphrasing West

    So technically
    had Trayvon simply startled Zimmerman he still could have shot him

    • YQ says:

      I know… he could have killed regardless (injuries or not) and we would have the same trial talking about self-defense.

    • Malisha says:

      By that token, Trayvon being scared of Fogen could justify his having killed Fogen — but he couldn’t, he wasn’t armed.

    • anita says:

      That is really some screwed up & dangerous stuff. This SYG laws must go. I know theywon’t do a thing to change it.

  76. YQ says:

    There it is folks.. still legal to profile people as suspicious and to follow them on foot and by car in Florida even it includes possible Murder 2.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      They are setting a precedence to kill at will. It is and all around message. When this happens again they will refer back to this case.. Kill at will….

      • Beverly says:

        Do you have a Paranoid Diagnosis?

      • YQ says:

        True indeed. But with there being so many rumors of riots and high attention to this trial, that’s just going to give anyone an excuse to kill and blame it on reasonable fear. Whats the point in that law if there is no way to prove “reasonable fear”? You can have a scratch on your back of your head and still kill justifiably. Not cool. I’ve been in a few fights and naturally I was scared, but to shoot someone in a fist fight is just wrong. Especially when you’ve trained in hand-to-hand self-defense (MMA).

        With Trayvon smashing his head on the sidewalk? all the more reason why he should have never left his vehicle. Fogen wanted it, he got it.

        • MedicineBear says:

          ” . . . to shoot someone in a fist fight is just wrong”

          Yes, wrong but LEGAL in Florida.

          • Malisha says:

            This was not a fist fight. A guy “marked” his target and chased him down with a loaded gun. There was no “fist fight.” Any struggle was a kid trying to escape an execution.

          • towerflower says:

            They may try to make it sound legal but it is not legal. There are many cases that have come to light on the publicity of this case where the person tried to use the SYG defense and it didn’t work for them.

    • abbyj1 says:

      There it is, YQ. They want to retain the right to use their own (paranoid) subjective opinions as to whether their fear of another person warrants killing him, regardless of whether the person is merely walking home, wearing the wrong clothing, out at night in the rain, or “suspiciously out of place on white territory.” That opens a wide door to twisted subjectivity, and unchallenged impunity for wholesale slaughter of others. Welcome to Florida.

      Going in hot pursuit by car and then on foot hardly meets the standard for “being in fear” of another. There is NO way that West can get that language removed or nullified. Going in pursuit of a stranger is NOT an act without multiple, malignant meanings in our culture.

      Every person who’s ever been in that position knows that it means you’re in danger, not that Publisher’s Clearing House representatives are on your tail to you to give you a bouquet of multicolored balloons and a check for a million bucks. We know what it means when a stranger takes on heated pursuit of you in the dark of night, in the rain. We know. All the bluffing and lying by West cannot change that. He cannot nullify what pursuit of a stranger means.

      As the Professor noted a few weeks ago, many illegal acts with evil intent are the end product of LEGAL acts. A man may purchase duct tape and rope. He may buy a shovel. He may purchase a car. These are all legal acts of purchase, as the Professor pointed out, but each one may be the evidence and proof of a heinous crime.

      So, no, “following another person” doesn’t appear to be illegal, per se. It’s what preceded that act, and of course what followed it that gives weight to the malignancy of intention of it.

  77. Sophia33 says:

    West is forever unprepared.

  78. renah says:

    Is it possible that West is TRYING to make JN lose it so she snaps & says something that would cause a mistrial? ( My question is serious, not rhetorical)

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:


    • elle says:

      I absolutely believe that is what he is doing.

      • Unabogie says:

        I don’t think so. I just think he’s a very unpleasant person and loses his composure easily. Which is why he identifies so personally with Zimmerman.

    • Malisha says:

      The jury is not there, mistrial is not the issue. I think they’re creating a transcript to say that Nelson hates West and O’Mara and therefore she will take it out on their client during sentencing so there should be a different judge for sentencing. I foresee a gigantic legal battle on that one. She is known as a touch sentencing judge.

  79. KateW says:

    Head whip LOL

  80. Sleuth says:

    Drs. Bao and Rao never said his injuries were caused by concrete, they simply answered “could have been”. The duh-fense is twisting things.

  81. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    JN gives the defense everything. Tell West to sit down she is already in the bag! Just shut your mouth and ask for what you want.. Believe me JN will give it to you..

  82. ZCBest says:

    Thin ice. Your client couldn’t stand on thin ice with his ho ho eating ass!

  83. willisnewton says:

    West is a jerk but he has a valid point about some – some – of this. Our laws are so messed up you get to shoot anyone on slim pretext and the law allows it.

  84. Two sides to a story says:

    Lord, that would be horribly sick to shoot someone who never touched you. I couldn’t even do that to someone in my home.

    • Rachael says:

      See, that’s where I do NOT understand how he could go on TV and say he didn’t regret anything. I know that even if someone came into my house and pointed a gun at me or my children and the only way I could save my kids or myself would be to shoot first, I would never get over the fact that took the life of another, even if I had to. Police officers don’t even get over that when in the line of duty and look how it messes up our children who go off to war.

      • Two sides to a story says:


      • Sleuth says:

        I know, heck, I’m still trying to get over the cat I ran over 30 years ago. As I was driving down the street, it just jumped out in front of my car. But that “thump” I felt as I rode over it, left a lasting impression on my mind ever since. I still feel bad about it.

        I can’t even imagine how I would have re-acted if it was a human being.

        God help us all.

        • breelee says:

          Awww Sleuth, you’re my kind of people. Last week a bird flew right in front of my car and I hit it. I cried all the way home. I also thought of fogen and how he hasn’t shown one stinking bit of remorse. I say he’s proud and sees himself as a hero. He truly believes he knows better than anyone, has the power over anyone. Its his world and the rest of us just orbit around him. smh

          • Sleuth says:

            ~ breelee

            We must also be kindred spirits. I love animals. Poor birdie, but glad you’re alright though and didn’t have an accident.

            I’ve seen lots of people like the confessed murderer, not necessarily murderers, but people who think it’s beneath to simply “I’m sorry”, or “I apologize”. They are very unrepentant. It takes a big person, a person of character and integrity to say, “I’m sorry”.

            In his case, it probably has a lot to do with people with whom he has surrounded himself. Think about it, his family spent this past year and a half, defending his actions.

            Today, we got the chance to see just how bad it is. On at least two occasions he shook his head no, in response to BDLR’s closing arguments.

            Once when BDLR was “skipping” across the front of the courtroom to point out the lie he told on the Hannity Show. He told Hannity that Trayvon was not running away from him in fear, but was simply “skipping”.

            He did it again, when BDLR pointed at him while telling the jurors, “He is a man guilty of Murder two”. He appeared to be very upset by these demonstrations about the lack of credibility of his statements.

            But we continue to pray that he is held accountable for his crimes, and get the help he so desperately needs.

            Hoodies Up!

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          For you Sleuth and breelee,

          • Sleuth says:

            Awe! Ya makin’ me all salty. I love this song. You are so thoughtful. Thank you for making my day so much more brighter. Love and Hugs 🙂

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      I thought about that when I was young, whether to train myself to fight in self defense. I decided I couldn’t hurt another person on purpose. There are other reasons I wouldn’t ,also. The world would be a big mess if everyone was paranoid like the fogenites

  85. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    This judge is in the fix.. Did she just rule you can not mention GZ getting out of his vehicle caused this? I told everyone something is wrong with this trial.

    JN is pretending to be neutral but she is clearly on Zimmerman’s side…


    • amsterdam1234 says:

      No, she denied that.

    • Boyd says:

      I hope not, it 100% was the cause. he mugged Martin. martin told Jeantel ‘I lost him” He’s not going back to confront the guy he’s happy he lost. what is wrong with these people.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I do not think you have a basis for your accusation, EETTO.

      I have read comments by z supporters that say that she is favoring the prosecution.

      I think audience feelings vary with the day and the hour and the minute depending what JN is ruling on.

    • She just won’t give a jury instruction on it. Doesn’t mean it cannot be argued in court.

    • Beverly says:

      Prove “fix;” that is so irresponsible. She has schooled West and cut him off, and basically shamed him, including, she said, having given him professional responsibility readings on behavior before the Court. Get over it.

  86. Wendie Dox says:

    has west won any of these?

  87. mrsdoubtfire says:

    Mantei argues case law. West just argues.

  88. elle says:

    C.A.C. versus State, how appropriate.

  89. Stormwatch says:

    “Ewww I hear laughter in the rain.. walkin hand and hand with the one I love.”.. Neil Sedaka.
    And Phil Spector also wrote a song wrote a song for the Ronettes about “walking in the rain”.. and the night was so inviting”..
    And didn’t that crazy ME who testified for Phil Spector also testify for Zimmerman. Small world.

    • Wendie Dox says:

      he testified for phil spector defense and also for drew petersen defense
      he is a paid gun and he makes A FORTUNE.

    • sadlyyes says:

      if you dont HAVE A Car,you WALK,rain snow…etc..i walked to school all the time,and home too.even if you get on a bus,YOU WALK after that…geez this boy did NOT have a car!

  90. Nef05 says:

    OH, WTF!

    Why don’t we just assume West objects to everything, including kleenex!.

  91. Judy A Vallejos says:

    she is tired of this dancing around and wants to get things done here

    she moves right along

    I wonder if she is anxious to give the sentence out?

  92. silk says:

    if zimmerman followed trayvon then it should have been admitted! either that or the state didnt do a good job of proving it! idk about this judge .

  93. willisnewton says:

    JN wants to move on to the verdict form. Another schooling of West.

  94. Stormwatch says:

    Walking in the rain is not strange. people write songs about it.

  95. disappointed says:

    west come on you are not smarter than the Judge. if you were you would be a judge.

  96. chi1224 says:

    wtf shooting is an intentional act!!

  97. Sophia33 says:

    She is not going do the 3rd degree murder.

  98. Rachael says:

    Intentional v. justifiable. Interesting!

  99. renah says:

    JN uses the word “infocommercial”. IIRC that (t rather unusual) characterzation came from Pirahna mom or Patricia during discussion here?

  100. willisnewton says:

    now they are back to the child abuse part. West got no recess to look up case law. but JN seems to be questioning it. Go mantei, go.

  101. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I said I wasn’t going to deal with this anymore. But what is going on? Child abuse I heard?

  102. chi1224 says:

    Did she rule on the child abuse instruction?

  103. Dee says:

    God is in control, because Trayvon needed to be cleared from this demon control. It a thief is caught. He has to return seven fold said the Lord. Zimmerman was the thief who came to rob, steel and destroy the life of Trayvon Martin, and all that he could have been in this world.

  104. mr. west remain seating…sit yo ass down!

  105. Sophia33 says:

    Awwww….she tried to be nice to him.

  106. disappointed says:

    experts are entitled to be paid. pay your bill fogen. oh never mind. you don’t do that. mooch

  107. Woow! says:

    JN said some of the jurors sounded like they were giving infomercials

  108. fauxmccoy says:

    “some witnesses sounded like they were giving informercials”
    you said it, nelson, and i bet the jury gets it as well.

  109. My Forehead Tho says:

    “They sounded like they were giving infomercials”

  110. KateW says:

    LOL Mr Root was giving infomercials per JN!!!!

  111. disappointed says:

    bribed! haha.

  112. willisnewton says:

    “At this time I’d like to give my ruling. Bailiff, taser the creepy lawyer please. “

  113. fauxmccoy says:

    ha ha, you lose mr west! re: circumstantial evidence

  114. smokeegyrl says:

    I think Judge is not feeling well…

  115. Dee says:

    Zimmerman should have research Judge Nelson to find out that he pays strike attention to the dependence body language. She denied this black kid recent case of SYG ruling. And mention that his body language showed no type of sign of such as remorse or even entrance in the case. Similar to what Zimmerman is doing now and throughout this whole case. He is not showing any kind of remorse even toward another life period, especially being a 17-year-old kid whom they have made to look as though he was superman or something.

  116. Sophia33 says:

    Did the prosecution win?

  117. Judy A Vallejos says:

    I dare say now (and I truly felt the golden feeling yesterday for those of you who understand) god’s plan will prevail and this judge is going to inflict the most of all penalties allowed… im telling you

    and west is and has made it worse for his client

  118. KateW says:

    LOL I like when Mantei does his little neck rolls LOLLLL

  119. disappointed says:

    30 years ago? Good God West.

  120. colin black says:

    Jurys sittin back chillin at the hotel
    Watchin some Judge Judy

    Id love to know what tv channellls they picked …

  121. KateW says:

    are they arguing this again?? they must really be afraid

  122. Judy A Vallejos says:

    and kidnapping? was there not an attempt by zimmerazz to “detain” Trayvon against his will thus the physical altercation ?

    did he not try to force Trayvon to some place he was refusing to go with him?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      by it’s very nature, unlawful detention is kidnapping because the victim is not free to move on their own free will. you do not need to make them go anywhere.

    • chi1224 says:

      I think that is EXACTLY what happened!!
      The sad part is we will never see kidnapping in there

  123. Nef05 says:

    “He actually remembers…”

    Oh for effs sake! Shoot me, PLEASE. I’m begging now seriously. This is cruel and unusual punishment!

  124. chi1224 says:

    West like to say “ERROR” to the judge the same way he said “TOXICOLOGY” to the jury.

  125. disappointed says:

    I have a feeling during closing arguments West is going to be ejected from courtroom for disrupting.

    • chi1224 says:

      He needs to be ejected, and tased as someone else suggested.

    • mrsdoubtfire says:

      I’ll take that bet….:)

    • Malisha says:

      No — she won’t hurt West. I believe the whole “infuriate-the-judge” game is being done so that they can make a motion (and when it is denied, go up on appeal) to have her NOT do the sentencing after conviction. They’re hoping if he gets convicted of a minor lesser included, he’ll get another judge who will give him 60 days and a year’s probation and parenting classes with a mentor. They want Nelson off the case before SENTENCING.

  126. Sophia33 says:

    I fear for JN safety. West is unstable. Glad there are police in the courtroom.

  127. smokeegyrl says:

    West doesn’t want the State to be allowed to say anything in front of the Jury that would be against Fogen.

  128. fauxmccoy says:

    west wants to include language that FLA supreme court eliminated 30 years ago (coincidentally, about the time west stopped learning)

  129. Judge Nelson to West: I’ve ruled. If you think I’m wrong, appeal it.


    She dropped kicked him in the ass.

  130. Sabrina B. says:

    If you’re not happy, you can take it to a higher court. lol

  131. Nef05 says:

    JN to Clerk:

    “Where’s my powder?”

  132. disappointed says:

    why give him 3 chances with professional conduct? I would have his ass tased if I were her.

  133. willisnewton says:

    She gave him the rules on ethics THREE TIMES already? wow.

  134. Judy A Vallejos says:

    LOL the net is so big.

    LOL all this time the dumbasses thought it was as simple as guilty or not guilty

    LOL had no idea just how many things he is guilty of now did they


    He will go to jail and the wrath of JDN will be felt as loud as the gunshot that killed Trayvon was heard….

  135. chi1224 says:

    I wish Judge Nelson would find West in contempt! He blatantly ignores her instructions and does it over and over! Why is he allowed to keep getting away with this???

  136. Woow! says:

    We have some serous issues as of lately:

    1. Walton Henry Butler – admitted to shooting neighbor in the face and even called 911 himself to report it, after which he reportedly went back to cooking his dinner. According to reports, officers on the scene said Butler seemed annoyed by the arrest and told officers, “I only shot a ni—r. (Florida case)

    2. Michael Dunn – shot up SUV full of teens killing one, Jordan Davis (Florida case)

    3. John Spooner – killed 13 year old Darius Simmons in front of his mother. Accused the child of breaking into his home and stealing his property. (Milwaukee)

    4. New home owners held at gun point – Newton County, Georgia
    Father and son held new homeowners at gun point with assault rifles b/c they thought they were burglars. After telling the duo they were the new home owners they called the Sheriff’s department who arrested the couple and held them overnight. Mind you those ass whips were not the police and had no authority to hold anyone against their will. Sheriff deputy did not believe the couple or try verify who they were and told the duo good job.

    5. Brett G. Gerald Greensburg, LA man kill family of 7 (4th DUI)

    Twentieth Judicial District Judge William G. Carmichael said the new sentence — 35 years instead of 70 — will result in approximately the same prison release dates for Brett G. Gerald as those in the original sentence.

    “It was never my intention for Mr. Gerald to serve the rest of his life in prison,” Carmichael said in court. “Unless I modify the sentence, that would be the effect.”

  137. diary73 says:

    Ok, your motion is denied.

  138. darlinsass says:

    West is saying following by car “or” on foot. Mantai is saying following and by foot. Those two small two letter words are a world apart.

    • willisnewton says:

      agree x2

      One followed by the other – both lied about and denied later – speaks to ill will.

      • darlinsass says:

        Exactly. It just burns my butt that he is getting away with it. The “or’ is going to be allowed in court. I wish Mantai had argued this. It probably wouldn’t do any good, though.

  139. My Forehead Tho says:

    LOL She officially had it West. She basically said if you don’t like my ruling, appeal it.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      I.had to turn it off because listening to this BULLSHIT (TM not a child, okay to follow, TM stalked Fatass, etc) REMINDS ME OF WHY AND HOW WE AL CAME TO HATE THE BITCHASS PUNK ASS DEFENDANT!!!

      Omg I’m literally shaking in anger. Please jurors see this bullshit, West’s argument which was instructed by his client is proof George Zimmerman HAS A DEPRAVED MIND!!!!

  140. Boyd says:

    this following people before a injury or crime is committed on a person needs to be addressed.

    This is an action done mostly by men. Many robberies and rapes occur when one is followed until the time is right or they know where you live.

    This is crap, I was followed once when I was 18. 3 kids jumped me , one pout a knife up to my throat. It was not until they were on top of me did i realize what was going on.

    I believe this is important, there is intention there, Fogen did not stay in the car and wait for Police. He won’t tell the court where he was for 2 minutes.

  141. Tzar says:

    West is out of his mind!

  142. disappointed says:

    Motion denied. haha! West is going to loose his shit in a minute.

  143. Nef05 says:


  144. Sophia33 says:

    He is so nasty!

  145. Wendie Dox says:

    can judge nelson just reach out ans smack him?
    i owuld pay her to do so.

    and pull your damn pants up, west,

  146. willisnewton says:

    here is where WEST’s ill will comes back to bite his arse

  147. MedicineBear says:

    Mothers, let your children know that a stranger following them on wheel and on foot is not illegal.

  148. disappointed says:

    oh dear God now he wants to write their closing.

  149. Two sides to a story says:

    West meltdown!

  150. renah says:

    whos. Go JN 🙂

  151. fauxmccoy says:

    “i am not giving that instruction”
    “i have already ruled”
    (d. nelson — and gives a reminder to abide by court demeanor)

  152. Sophia33 says:

    I have provided you with professional conduct in the court on three separate instances.

  153. disappointed says:

    professional conduct!

  154. colin black says:

    None of thease things skellator are A CRIME

    However when you do thease thing in order to commit a crime towith MURDER A CHILD

    Then those two things become following with iill intent by vech ic kill an foot

    so those both are CRIMES


    I walk along road enter bank rob it crime

    get it?

  155. Sophia33 says:

    Take it out judge.

  156. fauxmccoy says:

    excellent logic nelson “you are asking him to prove a negative”

  157. disappointed says:

    Right on! walking in the rain in a hoodie, many people do it without getting a bullet in the heart.

  158. renah says:

    Im sorry chi, but i missed it too.

  159. MrSykes says:

    Mantei is holding his ground.

  160. disappointed says:

    West how would you feel if some dude followed one of your children? No problem? Trayvon did not know why he did it. Fogen could be getting ready to rob him or rape him.. Neither is a far cry from what people have said. I would also say it would not shock me if your client and wife were the ones jacking the neighborhood. jmo

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      We should put out an alert to have everyone follow O’Mara, West, and their kids everywhere they go… but a different person everyday and see how they love it!

    • Sleuth says:

      We already know how he would feel, scared, considering he claims he’s received death threats, and threats of his daughters being raped, over the ice cream cone selfies.

      Like you, and many of us have suspected, he and his wife, and perhaps his bff, had something to do with the crime at RATL.

      Although it may not have anything to do with this case, listed on one of SPD call logs was a man named Christopher Oliver, (I think that was his name) who resided at RATL.

      The confessed murderer called the police to report a B & E (?) at the man’s home. Police arrived, checked out everything, then call the homeowner who allegedly had gone to work around 8:30 a.m.

      The police contacted the man by phone for several hours, but never received an answer. Finally, the man came home and reported to the police that over $7,000 worth of property was stolen.

      The items consisted of desktops/laptops, digital cameras, big screen tv’s, tiffany jewelry, as well as other pieces of gold jewelry, etc.

      That was one burglary that has remained on my mind.

    • Malisha says:

      “Why did he get out of his car to follow my son?”
      — TM

  161. colin black says:

    Does skellator get paid by the word?

  162. Sabrina B. says:

    He chased him!

  163. Sleuth says:

    The confessed murderer stalked him, you numbskull!

  164. chi1224 says:

    Can somebody please tell me what the state lost because of West’s ranting??

  165. colin black says:

    comma comma comma comma


    they come an go they come an go

    comma comma comma.

  166. willisnewton says:

    she isnt going to budge on this BS

  167. Sophia33 says:

    You have no case law West. It goes!

  168. Tzar says:

    codified by absence?

  169. Deborah Moore says:

    Me: Don West is a WATB
    (Whiney Ass Titty Baby)

  170. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Beware of commas 🙂

  171. MedicineBear says:

    JN caught the comma beeyatches!

  172. Sophia33 says:

    Good catch JN. Comma removal. Damn this woman is good.

  173. Tzar says:

    wait? so they allowed the following to be ok in the instructions?

  174. willisnewton says:

    sounds like she took out some of what both sides wanted. she said “that comes out, right.”

  175. YQ says:

    Child abuse… Dang, imagine that!!! And that’s correct being that there is no way you can argue according to Fogen’s claim. He was on his back, he aimed and then he shot the kid. Then he downplayed it by saying that he didn’t know he hit his target at point blank range. He claims that Trayvon said, “you got me” when he sat up, and he also claims that Trayvon was still alive for a short time after that point. I always felt like this point of his story was BS. A blind man can hit at that range.

    I think that Mantei wants Murder 3 because of what Fogen did right after he shot the kid. Remember he sat on top of Trayvon and tried to “restrain” him. This did not help his slim chances of survival. Criminally negligent at that point. So the positional asphixiation argument was crucial after all, although not much of it was mentioned during the trial.

  176. chi1224 says:

    What just happened??

  177. Beverly says:

    What is going on? I had thought the charges would not be on the TV……

  178. renah says:

    I usually try to avoid generalizations & counsel the same to oyhers), but its a good thing we have prof Leatherman,
    : otherwise Id leave this trial believing that all lawyers are dispicable liars and cheats.

  179. chi1224 says:

    So West just won?

  180. willisnewton says:

    the state seems to have just lost something. I wish i understood what.

  181. Sophia33 says:

    So how did she rule? Confused?

  182. ZCBest says:

    Wow. She denied it.

  183. disappointed says:

    WTF is wrong with the defense? Fogen should not have to run to truck but Trayvon had to run home or he got what he got. SMDH

  184. colin black says:

    Oh he is off again sit doon scellator
    No one rattled your cage.

  185. willisnewton says:

    FOLLOWING ON WHEEL AND ON FOOT. finally he says it.

    • willisnewton says:

      now if he can get the grammar right. lol.

      • colin black says:

        grammar spammer gies a hammer

        Listen if the youg uns took on the worldwideweb

        We oldies also diddcovered it

        An am sure we can invent much more alllureing cyber talk than

        LL O L

        Although that came in handy last night at the spankings for witness violations by the defence

        I was laughing so hard I had tears.

        R I P trey justice is on its way

        A G Plan.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      happy now??? state has introduced evidence for a reason.

  186. fauxmccoy says:

    hear that willis? followed on wheel and foot!

  187. ZCBest says:

    on wheel and on foot

  188. disappointed says:

    on wheel and on foot!

  189. willisnewton says:

    West is using the distance from the T to brandy;s house as an argument. 398 feet. Trayvon had no duty to run home. he had every right to be there.

    But he wasn’t at the T, and no one can place him there except the liar.

  190. chi1224 says:

    Mantei bringing sanity back to the table…. thank God

  191. colin black says:

    Scellators lips are moveing an allthats comeing out is whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawhaaaaaa

    Tell them Judge whaaaaaaaawhaaaaa
    trll them there pickin on my client an making him look like a child stalkin loon.

  192. Woow! says:

    W is a hostile attorney. He is hostile to JN and the prosecution team. Does anyone know what his reputation is in the FL legal community?

  193. fauxmccoy says:

    keep arguing west, we get it, the black kid had no rights in your world view

  194. Sleuth says:

    The Wiester needs to let the circular bullshyte go about Trayvon could have gone home. If Trayvon wanted to stay outside, in the rain, that was his right to do so.

    And the confessed murderer could have kept his wannabecopazz in his vehicle.

  195. amsterdam1234 says:

    West is such an ass.

  196. disappointed says:

    so your client makes it to the other street in 30 seconds but could not make it back to his car in 3 minutes? 1 more minute with NEN call and 2 minutes for Trayvon’s phone call??? mmmk.

  197. Boyd says:

    west just said trayvon told Rachel “he lost him”

    so now Mr. Don why would he then go back to confront?

  198. Patrcia J-C says:

    George is sleeping again.

  199. chi1224 says:


  200. Sabrina B. says:

    Conveniently left out ‘the man is behind me again?’

  201. fauxmccoy says:

    “trayvon had time to get home” … cannot wait to hear nelson’s response about a person’s right to be where he is as an invited guest.

    • Malisha says:

      Trayvon had a legal right to be there even if he was NOT an invited guest. It was a gated community, not a military installation. People passed through all the time.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        generally, i’d agree. if there were ‘no trespassing’ signs posted, there would be a legitimate argument because it is private property and not a public thoroughfare.

      • towerflower says:

        People passed thru because it wasn’t a fully gated community—fencing all around. Numerous people, and it was known even by Taffee, that people used the open spaces as a short cut to either into the community or places beyond. Since the shooting, the community is now fully gated in.

  202. Wendie Dox says:

    just got here.. what am I listening to?

  203. jodiwankanobi says:

    and george had the same amount of time to get back in his fucking truck

  204. colin black says:

    Sophia33 says:

    July 11, 2013 at 9:50 am

    I how do you argue against your own proposals

    Nae bother

    When you hear voices inside your voice you can
    Mass debate
    An wit West that turns into a jack off in court known as a mstabate.

    sorry couldt resist.

    r I p trey justice is on the way

    A G Plan

  205. Sabrina B. says:

    He is arguing this case again.

  206. willisnewton says:

    here goes West on the car chase. He’s not getting it right becuase of the timing. DAMN IT. CAR TO PEDESTRIAN CHASE was going on here.

  207. aussie says:

    Being shot from the front has no bearing on the case………..

  208. disappointed says:

    no one saw him struck in the nose, dumb ass.

  209. Judy A Vallejos says:

    west is so lost…

  210. Judy75201 says:

    This is not closing arguments, West.

  211. disappointed says:

    could not see what she thinks she saw. West how do you know what she saw?

  212. chi1224 says:

    Why is West arguing the case to the judge? It’s for the jury to decide! Why is he allowed to do this??

  213. renah says:

    You know, its practically like west and omara are writing new laws– and wants them respected, come hell or high water.. the bastards. Is it true that their fee = $750/hr??

  214. Sabrina B. says:

    People. Who else would it have been West?

  215. chi1224 says:

    So much for closing arguments starting today….

  216. colin black says:

    disappointed says:

    July 11, 2013 at 9:48 am

    OMG what is West arguing? He is confusing himself

    Same old same old

    He objected against his own statement a few days ago

    He is suffering from double D


    Demented an Dementia.

    A G Plan

  217. fauxmccoy says:

    you rock mantei!!

  218. chi1224 says:

    Fogen followed Trayvon, end of story!

    • willisnewton says:

      no that is how the story was getting STARTED. Before that he HUNTED him on a tip, probably considering he never saw him until the teen was under the mail kiosk and had been there for more than ten minutes

      the end of the story is where GZ gets out of a car AFTER chasing the teen off the roadway with his vehicle.

  219. willisnewton says:

    Mantei mentions RJ and the following. Leaves out the moving car following. Come on buddy.

  220. Sophia33 says:

    JN is being professional, but she can’t stand West, I don’t think

  221. West objects to his own jury instruction. smh

  222. willisnewton says:

    west now arguing against his own proposals.

  223. Tzar says:

    I only put it in for discussion

  224. disappointed says:

    OMG what is West arguing? He is confusing himself.

  225. Sophia33 says:

    I’m objecting to what I want.

  226. Don West : “This was a trick this is a trick by the state!”.

    The State dropped a bomb! **BOOM**!

  227. disappointed says:

    Mantei please part company with West all together, you are way to good to be in his company.

  228. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    LMAO.. they were so busy demonizing Trayvon, they didn’t do their homework… smh… “We are not saying TM committed a forcible felony on our client, but he was still justified in killing him” dumb bitch!

  229. Judy A Vallejos says:

    yes LOL Mr Mantei is remarkable isn’t he LOL

  230. Sophia33 says:

    Mantai seems to be on his game.

  231. amsterdam1234 says:

    Now things are getting very interesting. Mantei is getting to the nitty gritty of what exactly is justifiable use of deadly force.

  232. colin black says:

    Tzar says:

    July 11, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Hey people
    The interns have done remarkable work
    just in case you cared

    I think the props should go to the typists /stenographers having to type with fingers of quick silver ever word that they hear deliver.

  233. diary73 says:

    “I don’t want to hear the word trick anymore.”

  234. fauxmccoy says:

    “i don’t want to hear the word ‘trick’ any more”
    (d. nelson)

  235. breelee says:

    Let me get this straight. The state wants this child killer punished, put in prison, and Waste wants the jury to give fogen hugs, a bunch of money and a ride home after stopping and getting him a ice cream cone. Is that right?

  236. disappointed says:

    No more tricks, bitch. How do you argue tricks?

  237. willisnewton says:

    schooled! I dont wanna hear that word, trick, west. – JN

  238. Sophia33 says:

    I don’t want to here the word “Trick” again.

  239. jodiwankanobi says:

    trick haha

  240. Judy75201 says:

    LOL “scheme” “trick”. West, you suck.

  241. FactsFirst says:

    Public · By Kathleen Will
    WhenMonday, July 15, 2013

    IF ZIMMERMAN WALKS, THE DAY AFTER THE VERDICT WE ARE CALLING FOR A DAY OF ABSENCE, A TOTAL NATIONAL BLACKOUT. Call in sick and tired. Call in angry. Call in crazy. But CALL IN. Boycott transit. Boycott non-black businesses. Wear black armbands in solidarity — especially if you feel you have to go to work for fear of losing your job, or if you are essential personnel.

    The exception: The film “Fruitvale Station,” about the murder of Oscar Grant by a BART cop. If it is playing in your town, go see it. Discuss it. In addition to the film being a learning/politicizing tool, our attendance also will demonstrate black economic power.


  242. West’s argument about child abuse constituting prosecutorial “trickery” is bullshit because the Florida Supreme Court requires the trial court to instruct the jury on all lesser included crimes.

  243. colin black says:

    Woow! says:

    July 11, 2013 at 9:32 am

    What has that blond attorney been doing at the defense table the entire trial. Each time the attorney approached the bench she was right there with her nose all up in it. Is she there for show or is she going to participate with closing.

    She is foggagges baby sitter an she attends side bars to keep foggagge ubdated in non legalease when she returnsto bysitting dutys.

    The stenographers still record each an every word of every side bar

    An it actually can pear on pc screen for defendant to read if they so wish..
    But seeing foggagges is an idiot he will need a translate.

    Like psst George

    The Judge is angry at the lawers an she wants you to stop nodding off.

    Pay attention this is your Party play nice.

  244. Judy A Vallejos says:

    and how long did zimmerass spend plotting to get all his ducks in a row to kill a person ? and try to get away with it?

  245. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    They should go for aggravated stalking as well

  246. Judy75201 says:

    Where is O’Mara?

  247. disappointed says:

    Ms Corey needs to file complaint with bar while she sits in court today against West. For pissing me off!

  248. My Forehead Tho says:

    West has 2 lawyers and a room full of interns downstairs working helping him, yet he’s never prepared.

  249. Judy75201 says:

    This is my first exposure to the jury instruction process. It’s fascinating.

  250. renah says:

    I object to you, west

  251. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Amazing how much this tension comes through my computer screen.

  252. Woow! says:

    Shelly’s trial was supposed to start yesterday but I see her trial has been continued to next month.

    Detailed Information for Case 592012CF001792A

    Case Number: 592012CF001792A Judge: ALVA, MARLENE M
    Defendant Name: SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN
    DOB: 03/1987
    Proceeding: DOCKET SOUNDING Courtroom: 5C
    Court Date: 08-21-2013 Time: 09:00AM

    07/09/2013 DKSN DOCKET SOUNDING [A] – DATE: 08/21/2013 – TIME: 0900AM – CTRM: 5C

  253. diary73 says:

    West is looking like a fool. Oh my goodness!

  254. disappointed says:

    West is coming unglued. He did not care Mantei told JN what the difference was two minutes ago, now he will argue.

  255. jodiwankanobi says:

    well played by the prosecution…didn’t see that coming….west is having kittens

  256. smokeegyrl says:

    It seems that Judge Nelson has PTSD when somebody yells at her she backs down…

  257. Tzar says:

    Hey people
    The interns have done remarkable work
    just in case you cared

  258. fauxmccoy says:

    “Mr West — are you caught up?”
    (d. nelson)

  259. Sabrina B. says:

    Yes, it was a child you killed.

  260. disappointed says:

    Mantei is going to cause West to be in padded cell by 10:50 today.

  261. diary73 says:

    Temper tantrums work every time!

  262. fauxmccoy says:

    oh noooo, skeletor has been tricked!

    (case law to support: “it’s unfair, judge!”)

  263. smokeegyrl says:

    it never been approved or disapproved that Trayvon Martin was on top… GTFOH West … GTHOH

    • boar_d_laze says:

      The big thing to remember about that is whether proven or disproven, it doesn’t frikkin’ matter whether Trayvon Martin was on top or not.

      If you start a fight, you can’t end it by killing the other guy and claim the killing was “justified” no matter how much trouble you were in.

      If you start the fight with malice, the killing is murder. If you start the fight without malice, it’s manslaughter.

      The exception to the general rule is that no one consents to dying or serious injury. If you start the fight and during its course you really and truly are in legitimate fear of serious injury or death, and use deadly force to protect yourself then it’s manslaughter.

      The key to this case for the prosecution is getting the jury to focus on the big picture and not fall into traps like thinking the identity of the person screaming was important, or the identity of the person on top.

      The simple, broad facts of this cased, facts either not at all in controversy, or only put in controversy by the Defendant’s unsupported statements, make a compelling case for murder. And about those unsupported statements: “Only two people know for sure. One is dead, and the other is a liar.”

      The Prosecution should hammer those facts and that theme over and over and over. And over again.

      And over some more,

      • KA says:

        I was getting a little nervous about this case (I think it has huge ramifications for all of us with children) and this post made me feel a lot better about some conviction.


      • Danita says:

        Well I believe in order for the prosecution to change direction in terms of accepting Trayvon was possibly on top, that is the reason they want lesser charge. No matter the unkind feeling I have for the defense, they did a hell of a job fighting for foggen. Having said that the letter of the law has to be followed, reasonable doubt.Weather we like it or not they have raised doubt in the jury. In closing I hope they are able to talk more about Trayvon not doing anything wrong,make some connection about what foggen was doin with his hands, no blood evidence on the hands of the victim, something that would make jurors think outside the box so to speak.But I strongly believe that foggen should be held accountable in some capacity to a life being taken. Even if following is not illegal, his actions led to a fight and then a death.

  264. Sabrina B. says:

    Wow! Raising his voice! For his own incompetence,

  265. disappointed says:

    A trick! yep the state brought a bag of tricks.

    • Sophia33 says:

      About time considering all of the tricks of the prosecution. Perhaps if they had stayed off of CNN, they would have been able to do work for their client.

      • Sleuth says:

        or spending time going out for ice cream, creating disgusting selfies, and making fun of Miss Rachel. He’s going to pay dearly for that.

  266. colin black says:

    how is it a vauge allegation Trayvon was 17

    Its not an allegation it a matter of record

    He was not onlt 17 he will always be 17 you fool sit down shut up.


    Neither was Trayvons BUM


    In a suit

  267. willisnewton says:

    West: in the same way should (we have expected) vehicular homicide?

    Me, were i the judge: well, since he chased him with a car…. yeah.

  268. Woow! says:

    vehicular homicide – really W!

  269. fauxmccoy says:

    “these instructions have been known to this court since i’ve been on the bench”
    (D Nelson)

  270. Sabrina B. says:

    Always threatening to recess for hours.

  271. diary73 says:

    I’m not finished speaking please…

  272. Dee says:

    I cannot believe that MOM left this man to do this, knowing that they do not get a long. West does not respect this Judge at all. And the worst thing you can do is tick off a judge in he or her house.

    • willisnewton says:

      he’s working on his closing, presumably. I don’t blame him. west is co-counsel and if he has problems with the judge that is his own doing.

      I smell a rift in the team that is ongoing. I hope they whine and tell tales on one another in the wake of a guilty on M2 verdict.

      • Sleuth says:

        I noticed the “rift” during the second week of jury selection. Also noticed Tuesday night, when The Wiester was having his tissy fit, O’Dirty was waving his hand, as if to tell him to STFU while JN was speaking. By that time, she had adjourned and was being led out by Deputy Jarvis.

  273. Woow! says:

    What has that blond attorney been doing at the defense table the entire trial. Each time the attorney approached the bench she was right there with her nose all up in it. Is she there for show or is she going to participate with closing.

    • Sleuth says:

      She’s an attorney for the defense, O’Dirty introduced her when the trial began. IIRC, she works with O’Dirty, but I could be wrong about that.

  274. Boyd says:

    I don;t consider the kid 17. 30 days into your 17th year is not 17. He’s closer to 16 and an 11th grader.

    As far as I know they wait at the corner and catch the yellow school bus. Perhaps Mantei should give the Jurors and Judge that image

    • Sleuth says:

      Math is obviously not The Wiester’s strong suit.

    • Malisha says:

      Here is the proof that Trayvon Martin was a child:

      If there had been a custody battle, he would not have had the right to simply say, “I am out of here; I will live where I want to live and go where I want to go.” He would only have that right when he turned 18. That is proof positive that he was a child.

  275. Sleuth says:

    Is The Wiester pretending to be shocked at the thought of his client facing Murder 3, which does not required depraved mind.

    The duh-fense biggest mistakes was convincing themselves, and whomever else they could convince, into believing Trayvon was not a minor. The Wiester is full of shyte. He knows Florida case law.

    Yeah, that’s right, Mr. Mantei has been working his butt off while Rhe Wiester ate ice cream cones and taking selfies.

  276. chi1224 says:

    Someone please tell me why the judge won’t take control and shut this maniac up!!!

  277. Sophia33 says:

    JN is ignoring him! LOL!

  278. Sophia33 says:

    Has West lost his mind?

  279. diary73 says:

    “That’s not proper argument.”

  280. abbyj1 says:

    Good morning, everyone. Oh, it neeeeeeever occurred to West that Trayvon was a CHILD????? It has been discussed nonstop since February 26, 2012! How utterly disingenuous!!!! What a friggen liar.

  281. Manue says:

    And again he’s schooled by JN…I love it

  282. fauxmccoy says:

    “i’m not prepared to argue …”
    (d. west)

  283. My Forehead Tho says:

    Showing off for the cameras

  284. disappointed says:

    OMG West you have a whole team. LMAO come on you big wuss.

  285. Tzar says:

    what a drama queen?
    Surplusage people surplusage!!!!!

  286. Nef05 says:

    Whine, whine, cheese, crackers
    …. we got ROCKED in closing, so whine whine strike strike

  287. whonoze says:

    Here comes the meltdown!

  288. renahv says:

    he is not prepared!? lmao

  289. willisnewton says:

    golly west is unprepared. Imagine that.

  290. diary73 says:

    I’m not prepared to give an argument.

  291. Boyd says:

    certainly Child abuse. he told 911 I don’t know where this kid is

    he knew it was a kid. Screw him. BDLR better measure the distance when Fogen told singleton when he first started tracking the kid

  292. disappointed says:

    West stops with the theatrics and make your argument. Hard to imagine? West how OLD was Trayvon when your client shot him!!

  293. Sabrina B. says:

    They come off as threatening the court.

  294. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Settle down, West:

  295. diary73 says:

    WHERE IS YOUR CASE LAW??????????????

  296. chi1224 says:

    Who has control of this courtroom? West or Judge Nelson???

  297. renahv says:

    Is it just me, or does Mantei (sp?) seem unusually nervous this morning? I thought i hear his voice break & he seems almost insecure, glancing up at JN in a kind of worried way? He”s still doing a great job regardless; i just wonder if my perception is off. ……..OMG West is such an ass with his righteousness!!

  298. Judy75201 says:

    When West says, “…we have some talking to do….” it’s a threat of torture LOL.

    He is outraged!!! GAD I’M LOLLING.

  299. diary73 says:

    Is this man serious????????

  300. disappointed says:

    plotting? wtf he was a 17 year old. Pretty sure that is why they put it in there! Good thing I cannot get through my computer I would bitch slap this old coot. He needs to stay out of the hooch before court.

  301. willisnewton says:

    surplusage? is that a word?

  302. elle says:

    Wow, West just kinda threatened the Judge. “We will have a lot of talking to do.” He needs to buy a personality.

  303. Judy75201 says:

    HAHAHAHA West is such a goon.

  304. diary73 says:

    Oh shut up! Where is your freakin case law??????

  305. Dave says:

    Meltdown alert!

  306. chi1224 says:

    He was a CHILD you sick evil FUCK…. OMG!!!!!!!! PLEASE Judge DON’T LET HIM DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  307. fauxmccoy says:

    corey at the prosecution table 🙂

  308. smokeegyrl says:

    West… sit down STHU… it is child abuse… if you look at it… he killed a child… he killed a child… thus child…

  309. MrSykes says:

    West complaining about being bizarre? LOL!!! Oh the irony!

  310. Sabrina B. says:

    Did he say OMG?!

  311. fauxmccoy says:

    hahahahahahahahahaha on you west!!

  312. diary73 says:

    “Oh my God!” Is this how he begins?

  313. My Forehead Tho says:

    So he’s unprepared again

  314. disappointed says:

    Oh shut up! Trayvon is a child!

  315. chi1224 says:

    WHAT??????? OH MY GOD STFU WEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  316. smokeegyrl says:

    I stopped recording… I only want to record the closing… I am cleaning again… nervous… I finally got through shampooing carpets… now I’m starting in my bedroom… just got through organizing drawers… not them drawers…. sheeshers… dressers drawers… hahahaha… sillies…. throwing all my skinny clothes away that I have had since I was in my 20’s… counting on my fingers… like… ummmm ahhhhhh… neva mind… lmaoooo… nooo bloomers in the pile if ya thinking… goodwill

  317. disappointed says:

    This morning I hit my hand on a cabinet door. My middle finger knuckle instantly looked like I had an egg under skin, no way did Trayvon punch him in the nose. I did not think I hit it that hard. I hope I do not need to fly both of my birds because I think one is broke. :/

  318. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Sunny Hostin ‏@SunnyHostin 19s

    Child abuse definition in Florida – Intentional infliction of physical or mental injury upon a child. A child is anyone under the age of 18

  319. diary73 says:

    West’s argument against manslaughter was ludicrous!

  320. fauxmccoy says:

    i suspect nelson will let all lesser includeds involving child abuse in, based on her background.

    west looks as if he’s abandoning hope.
    defendant still dazed and confused if he is at trial or some pre-trial hearing.

  321. chi1224 says:

    I want those mothers on the jury to see that word…. CHILD
    CHILD abuse, he was a CHILD

  322. Judy A Vallejos says:

    and you know what? I think the dumbfense and zimmerass thought that is what it would be all or nothing on the murder two….thinking he could get off


    does the jury say guilty or not guilty to each charge? he could be guilty of more than one right ? it doesn’t have to be just one?

    • Puck says:

      If he’s found guilty of M2, then by default he’s guilty of manslaughter. If it’s manslaughter, the jury will say something like “On the charge of murder in the second degree, we find the defendant not guilty. On the lesser included charge of manslaughter, we find the defendant guilty.”

  323. Judy75201 says:

    Mantei has a lot of case law to support including a 3rd degree murder charge.

  324. disappointed says:

    Fauxmccoy- I would like him to never walk out of prison, but more than anything if this jury needs options I am all for it because if they convict him of any felony his gun will be a thing of the past. If anyone needs to lose their gun it is him, I have no regrets, God’s plan blah blah blah. I would like it to be God’s plan to send him to prison and my plan would be for him to walk around prison with Bubba’s foot shoved up his ass.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i’m with you, although i could never advocate prison violence any more than i can advocate for vigilante justice as the defendant practices. i do understand though.

    • willisnewton says:

      I hope he goes to prison and is rehabilitated. I also hope the prisons we choose to establish in this nation are run well and there is little abuse of any kind.

      I hope he is in prison for a long long time and never touches a firearm again in his life.

      • Malisha says:

        willisn, I hope along with you but with respect to the prisons? I KNOW better. The prisons are like our society. Bullying and corruption, abuse and lying are the name of the game. I have visited (mostly women) in prisons and jails and I have been friendly with staff, inmates and chaplains, and I think all reasonable people I have spoken with in the last 40 years agree.

  325. Boyd says:

    Go Mantei!!!!

  326. Tee says:

    Did the judge decide on the witnesses violation of sequestration.?

    • Boyd says:

      she’s afraid of west and MOM to do anything

    • chi1224 says:

      She didn’t do a damn thing! I was shocked!

    • willisnewton says:

      I believe she decided to let Donnally slide. She said yesterday that it was a violation but that the sanction the state sought, to rule out all his testimony was not acceptable to her.

      I think she fears an overturn on appeal if she gives grounds for appeal.

      I do NOT think however these violations went unnoticed and that she won’t keep this bad behavior in mind when deciding other things. It’s clear she thinks West is a jerk and a poor advocate.

      He was just another clearly biased friend of a liar. I’m not worried about him. I assume the jury sees thru all this.

      • HappyinNM says:

        She may seek sanctions on the attorneys which may not have to be shown during the trial. They’re the ones who initiated the contacts to help the animator.

  327. diary73 says:

    That’s funny. West thought that just because he wanted no lesser charges, it would be that way automatically. He really sounded very uninformed and inept.

  328. Judy A Vallejos says:

    seems like some of the lesser charges have greater sentence?

    and for each charge does the jury say guilty or not guilty of it?

    my ex husband was charged with felony endangerment x2 for 2 children in stead of non support because it had a higher sentence….

  329. MrSykes says:

    3rd degree murder sounds a lot like capital murder in Texas on the face of it: commission of murder while in the act of committing another felony.

  330. diary73 says:

    I wonder if West will have any case law in this one.

    • willisnewton says:

      he will cite his right to beat his daughters. (sorry, snark)

    • gwynne says:

      I think what he will say is, “your honor, pause, pause, pause, we are not prepared for this.”
      “i will need some time to do some research,” pause, pause, sniff, wipes nose on sleeve, takes drink of water, “so…can we have until after lunch???”

  331. Sophia33 says:

    Sorry meant to ask if they included aggravated stalking?

    • chi1224 says:

      I haven’t heard that but I hope they do! I also hope they include child abuse! Trayvon was a child!

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I think they want the word child included. Give a message to the jury. That is why West is flipping out again.

  332. diary73 says:

    I think he would have been better with third degree to include the stalking of a child rather than child abuse.

  333. Sophia33 says:

    Did they included aggravated stalking?

  334. gwynne says:

    it would be great if they included child abuse. i mean, the legal child is dead from a deliberately inflicted gunshot to the heart. That has to be child abuse.

  335. disappointed says:

    Child abuse for sure! Hear that fogen, you are also a child abuser.

  336. looolooo says:

    What happened to that ATF agent testifying? Did JN scratch that too?

    • disappointed says:

      I assume he was not available.

    • willisnewton says:

      WESH reported that mantei told them the guy was “unavailable” and so would not appear. Seems like a ZImbot to me. Who knows. Perhaps he’s undercover and doesn’t want his face on national TV. Seems like they could have gotten another person who was there to say something. Odd and we dont know the whole story.

      • looolooo says:

        OMG! Will the senseless, cruel , uncontainable, UNGODLY, and unprecedented persecution of Trayvon Benjamin Martin and his tortured parents ever cease?!

        Can’t the ATF agent testify via Skype, while wearing a mask or something?

        This case is one for the record books.

        HOODIES UP!

        • roderick2012 says:

          Can’t the ATF agent testify via Skype, while wearing a mask or something?

          True. They allowed lying Eloise to ‘testify’ using her Iphone.

          Was she even sworn in?

          This entire trial has been an f-ing joke.

      • roderick2012 says:

        Seems like a ZImbot to me

        This entire town is full of Zimbots as we have seen in some of the State’s witnesses who made inappropriate statements during cross-examination supporting Piglet.

        Sanford reminds of The Village of the Damned full of look alike zombies.

  337. chi1224 says:

    Anyone have a good feed, both of mine are acting wonky

  338. My Forehead Tho says:

    In this case because Fogen used a gun and murdered a minor:

    Aggravated manslaughter= 35+

    Murder 2 =25+ life

  339. Sophia33 says:

    Child abuse. Right on!

  340. willisnewton says:

    Sharuz case? Martin vs State.. Florida Supreme court cases being mentioned. Anyone hep to what these cases were?

  341. chi1224 says:

    now asking for 3rd degree felony murder

    • willisnewton says:

      which is akin to manslaughter, i think.

      782.404? a case about child abuse and child neglect.

      seems like a longshot.

      Clines case 765.. sheesh too fast. Another child abuse case – a gun was waved around, went off and a child was injured.

      Mantei is trying to get as much in as he can.

  342. I’m gonna quote Cercando from last evening’s post since it’s so appropriate here since we are down to the wire:

    “Oh for crying out loud, Zimmerman killed his neighbor’s guest.”

  343. chi1224 says:

    So is it only murder 2 and manslaughter?

  344. Sophia33 says:

    So what have they decided on the lessor charge.

  345. MedicineBear says:

  346. willisnewton says:

    West needs more time.. lol.

  347. diary73 says:

    Where is West’s case law??????

  348. Sabrina B. says:

    Yes, lessor charge manslaughter. Thank you judge.

  349. ZCBest says:

    Manslaughter is in. Not that I ever doubted it.

  350. willisnewton says:

    manslaughter included I think the judge just ruled.

  351. My Forehead Tho says:

    Yes manslaughter…

  352. fauxmccoy says:


    • disappointed says:

      High Five! At this point I do not care if they charge him with felony jay walking that fat bastard needs to loose his gun!

    • type1juve says:

      Thank God!

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        Honestly, I’ve thought from the beginning that manslaughter was the best charge to convict on…. while I believe it is murder, given the conditions of the evening and the fact that no one really saw anything to nail GZ to the wall, it is a hard thing to prove given all the speculation required in this case…

  353. Judy75201 says:

    Yay, manslaughter is in!

  354. disappointed says:


  355. Nef05 says:

    Are no lessor crimes

    Shoot me now.

    GO Mantei!!!!

  356. Judy A Vallejos says:

    hoodies up! I say hoodies up!

    my husband said what if they let him off???

    I told him he better hope not as I would be going to florida

    Im looking for where I put that damn waffle cone… sure I can buy a new package so I have enough for everyone…..

    • elle says:

      My husband has been arguing for the Martins at work. I did not see that coming. He usually does not speak unless necessary. He is an observer. I have been very surprised and proud of him.

  357. disappointed says:

    No choice for JN? She has to leave them in? West sit down, let it go.

  358. unabogie says:

    Did she rule?

  359. Puck says:

    Mantei is arguing for lessers now.

  360. disappointed says:

    I hope the State argues good for the lessors.

  361. fauxmccoy says:

    of course the defense is asking for ‘all or nothing’ …
    but judge will hear arguments and decide

  362. dianetrotter says:

    3rd degree murder – I rarely hear that wording. It means manslaughter?

    • willisnewton says:

      same question. checking the googles…

      yahoo answers says

      Third degree: killing that resulted from indifference or negligence. Usually there must be a legal duty (parent – child), but can also include crimes like driving drunk and causing a fatal accident.

      seems very un-legal answer but I think yeah it’s manslaughter

    • Nef05 says:

      2nd degree. 1st degree is under circumstances. such as a minor or senior murder, called aggravated manslaughter. 3rd degree is felony murder 3.

  363. Sabrina B. says:

    So no lesser charges?

    • gwynne says:

      I think that’s a pretty normal defense tactic, but I have to believe foggen will sweat this. he specializes in just slipping under a big penalty. i’m sure he would like to have his good ‘ole default, rather than all or nothing.

  364. Judy A Vallejos says:

    WTF???????????????? Not guilty or gulitly on murder 2????? no way no way!!!!

  365. Nef05 says:

    Zero lessers? R U KIDDING ME!!!!

  366. willisnewton says:

    felony 3rd degree as a lesser charge sought

    the defense seeks 2nd degree or no charges as the choices

    GZ being asked if he wants an all or nothing deal

  367. willisnewton says:

    Hilarious WESH hasn’t noticed the trial is back in session yet.

  368. disappointed says:

    I like the name defendant. Leave it that way.

  369. chi1224 says:

    This could take all damn day!

  370. ay2z says:

    Back on the record at 9:55 and onto jury instructions. West wants all words ‘defendant’ replaced with defendant’s name.

    State believes this case should be treated as any other.

  371. willisnewton says:

    “smaller letters” – I hope JN got enough sleep.

  372. chi1224 says:

    Oh good grief, he IS the DEFENDANT WEST!!!
    Soon to be INMATE

  373. J4TMinATL says:

    I’m back from my cat nap. Looks like recess has exceeded 30 minutes.

    Nevermind, they are back.

  374. anita says:

    Last nite watching the commentators,most of them seemed to think when Guy got on top of the dummy, that the state was conceding Trayvon was on top. I took it he was showing that fogen could not have drawn his gun laying on his back. Sunny H. & the new young, cute black girl on msnbc are the only ones who seem to have grasped the intended meaning.

  375. Judy75201 says:

    Hat-holding confirmed. Hoodies up!

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      Yes, I don’t know what to think, I feel like the State dropped the ball with character evidence if they don’t get some of his bad character stuff in for a rebuttal to all the “GZ is so soft and nice” testimony put on by the defense

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      Even Nancy Grace mentioned that they should have fired back with that as soon as they called the witness who had the home invasion and said GZ was her night in shinning armor… smh..

  376. Allison says:

    Some of this may have already been asked but I have a few questions….

    1.Fogens phone calls and phone records including text messages I find it hard to believe those did not have some incriminating evidence against Fogen. First why were those not played and discussed during trial and are they able to use them in their closing arguments? I remember them being admitted into evidence.

    • willisnewton says:

      His phone call to NEN was recorded. Others, not so much. The state not only enrtered into evidence HIS records but also those of Shellie, which includes a call and several texts showing at minimum that they were NOT home mentoring to any children at all, but in separate locations. The possibility exists that there was a tip-off call. I don’t know why the prosecution included her phone records unless they mean to make a specific point about it in closing.

      many things are possible. What GZ claimed happened is not possible. The phone records in evidence show it.

    • willisnewton says:

      It’s possible there were “deleted” text messages on GZ’s phone but I’ve not seen them entered into evidence specifically. Not sure what that means. But the phone records don’t show the content of such messages.

      I agree there may be an iceberg here but we’ve not really seen much more than a tiny tip above the surface, in the form of the phone records themselves. Perhaps they are there only to authenticate that GZ was calling NEN. I doubt that however.

      There was also the issue of the phone seen to his ear in the bloody head photo. I have hopes that will come up, as it may be GZ calling NEN again and NOT asking for an ambulance or waiting for the call to complete. He left this out of every account, but the phone records and the photo show he was calm enough to call NEN again seconds after shooting the teen he claims he didn’t know was dead.

      If he didn’t know he was dead, that shows ill will as he rendered no aid.

      • Malisha says:

        Funny thing is that I presumed they wanted to keep all the information away from the public so they would avoid a trial and work out a plea deal. Instead, they had a trial and still kept all the information away from the public. Until you are actually one of these official government corruption engineers, you never can figure out what new device they’re inventing next. Never ceases to amaze me.

  377. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Someone please help…. Will the State not be calling in any rebuttal witnesses?

  378. smokeegyrl says:

    There has been a Mass Vigil and March scheduled all over the world the day of the verdict. Here is the link if anybody is interested.

  379. degraveegmailcom says:

    Here’s the link to llmpapas latest vid.

    Was the button ever checked for fingerprints or dna?
    I don’t recall it being mentioned bij Mrs. smith.

    • ay2z says:

      excellent point, excellent surface to retain prints. Thing is with all that pushing away with hands, could have had a full coverage of pushing Trayvon away to gain space between the two, as expert witness testified should have been the situation. And fogen would have naturally put his and up in that area to push away.

      Minimally the defsnse could have used it.

      Doesn’t seem they ever tested the button.

      • Malisha says:

        Fogen couldn’t shoot at Trayvon until he was immobilized; if he shot a moving target running away or struggling to get away, he would have had a good chance of either missing or just wounding. He needed Trayvon STILL and totally vulnerable before taking his shot.

  380. willisnewton says:

    mantei told WESH just now that the rebuttal witness to the fight GZ started “will not be available” today and so will not be testifying.

    One wonders if the jerk is a Zimbot.

    • ks says:

      Ridiculous. This guy is an LEO, right? That’s very irresponsible of him though who knows if JN would have let him testify anyway.

      • Malisha says:

        LEO not testifying is part of the corruption thing; there is plenty to hide in the resolution of the ATF officers’ case back in 2005. The questions would inevitably arise: why did they drop this down to misdemeanor? Who fixed this case? Why did he get CCW license after this? What if a Black man had attacked ATF officers? etc. etc.

        • towerflower says:

          Z had a lawyer who helped get it downgraded to a single misdemeanor. Also because it was only a misdemeanor without violence he was still able to get a CCW. A few weeks back I went into detail about the requirements and disqualifiers for the license and sadly there was nothing in his past to prevent it.

    • type1juve says:

      You may be on to something. I just can’t imagine not being available for a case as important as this one, barring serious illness or something like that.