Welcome to liveblogging day 12 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

Good afternoon:

I also have been having some problems with my computer.

I think I may have solved them.

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.


See you in court.


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1,249 Responses to Welcome to liveblogging day 12 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

  1. LeaNder says:

    Crump seems to have finally arrived at my earliest responses to the huge debate about who cried. From the very start I did not care who cried, I was pretty lonely in that respect. It matters much more to me in our scenario who knew what was going on and who obviously couldn’t. Or who set the whole train of events in motion.

    In the most sinister scenario Fogen could even cry as evidence for later having to shoot since he was in fear of his life. The problem with this of course is his reenactment cry.

    Trayvon on the other hand had only slightly over a minute to figure out what happened. What this guy wanted from him? His call with DeeDee/Rachel is interrupted at: 19:16:43. One minute and 13 seconds later he had a hole in his chest.

    I won’t even bother to read Jeralyn Merritt’s new exhibit of “moral indignation” about Benjamin Crump. I am pretty sure it would make me sick. Especially sick since I am not above criticism of Crump, but in Jeralyn’s case it is way too irrational for me to ignore.

  2. Cercando Luce says:

    Surely the fizzling of the trial means that FDLE knows for certain that the DoJ is not going to investigate the SPD, so no one needs to make an effort anymore, or even try to look like it, right?

  3. Nellie Nell says:

    I am still holding on to my faith that the kid killer will be found guilty of one of the man charges that the jury has the option of. There is no way that my God told me that he will be going to jail for a long stint and not believing what I was shown. I am still sticking to the fact that when all around me kept telling me that he would not be arrested, but my God told me that he would be – I believed and he was arrested. So too do I believe that he will not walk away from this without a conviction.

    I am begging all Trayvon supporters to keep the faith even though there are things that could have happened but did not. I still think that the state put on a good case while the defense lied and called a bunch of crack pots to lie as well. That jury of women are as smart as the rest of us and will use what they were presented to come up with the only verdict that there could be – GUILTY

    Hang tight my friends as it is not over until the fat lady sings!

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      Nellie Nell, you don’t have to beg me. I believe it too. However, I am frustrated with the double standard shown today with JN’s ruling regarding Connelly, the others, and MOM and West dirty tactics.

      I’m just upset and need to pray. However, mine is a righteous indignation. Enough is enough!

  4. colin black says:

    July 10, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Some lawyers argued. (are you kidding? you missed it.) Watch the closing and read some articles when it is over. We can’t be expected to summarize. Too much happened. Sorry to be flip.


    towerflower says:

    July 10, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Yeah, I missed it. I go on a camping trip at this time every year. Missed the Anthony case too when it was on. Did the GPS logs ever come out in the trial? That was my big question.


    Beverly says:

    July 10, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    I do not think so; could have missed it. But I think they did not.


    colin black says:

    July 10, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    14 days

    Day one prosecution GOOD. defence bad

    Day Two ditto

    Day three draw.

    Day 4 good prosection
    day 5 ditto
    day six ditto
    day 8 order restored win for ths State

    day 9 ditto day ten draw
    Day eleven a non rubber
    day twelve win for State
    day 13 ditto

    An today was weird way to weird to call Id say to day was cancelled.

    Ive heard of jury nullification today we got just entire day wasted nullification

    An tomorrow we have closeing arguments.

    DVD with directors commentary comeing to a store near you.


  5. I think the prosecution left a lot on the table to convict fogen. Was it on purpose I don’t know, but I think this case was to just please the AA community. I live less the 15 miles where this happened and its a trend down here” take them to court to appease the AA community but they hardly get convicted, AA does the same crime gets double the sentence. Florida is still stuck in the 60’s. This is still the dirty south.

  6. Tee says:

    If i didn’t trust & believe in God I would be really worried right now. I can’t say that my stomach isn’t in knots waiting for tomorrow. No rebuttal, no friends or family to say that it was Trayvon yelling for help. No nothing! BDLR failed the Martin family, and when George is found guilty it won’t be because of him, it will be because it is God’s Will.

  7. ay2z says:

    CAtching up with the videos. Dog needs to go for a walk and swim.

    Thinking Knopfler’s ‘Baloney Again’ is a good title, but not posting that.

    Donnolly did damage to the state, but then they can always bring up his clear bias towards the defendant, by his reading into screams.

  8. colin black says:

    colin black says:

    July 10, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    No Mantei

    Is bringing it home Bernie said he is ..Mantei …Doing the closeing.

    I cant see them shareing the closeing

    Mantei Opened Bernies the work horse

    Manteis the show Pony he opened he closes thus the finger have wrote moves on

    Closeing the LOOP.

    K I S S…

    Think how you Gals think of Mantei can you imagine seeing him listening to him

    Up close an personel thease past couple of weeks


    colin black says:

    July 10, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Bernie an Guy even better..

    Juty instructions are also VITAL

    Sounds like perfect combo to me now Im convinced off conviction.


  9. Sophia33 says:


    Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    The courage to change the things that I can
    And the wisdom to know the difference.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


    • riisey007 says:

      Yes LORd!! I know the Martin family will have to go on. I really feel as though Zimmerman should face jail time for his part in this murder. I don’t care what anybody says, I do not believe Martin punched him I believe he trapped Martin and planted all of these lies as his story and those who want to think ill of black children and black people in general jumped on board. I can’t understand why it is that Zimmerman is alright to mistakenly make this kid a suspect and kill him but there will be no repercussions on his part for this? It has been proven that Martin ran and had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle then Martin would still be alive. I am not ever going to be happy with any verdict that allows Zimmerman to just walk away like all of his other crimes without any reprimand. You can not just kill an unarmed human being that was minding his own business and it be fair. I just can’t even think straight about this. People will be highly disturbed over this.

      • Malisha says:

        If Trayvon Martin punched Fogen, it was not only perfectly legal, and protected by the Florida SYG law, it was the RIGHT THING to do because Fogen was threatening him. I think a jury instruction will HAVE to point out the fact that self-defense is not available to someone who is instigating a fight or putting another person in danger.

  10. You all have thoughtful comments says:


    I would really like some of you who are AA to talk AT me now.

    How do you feel when I write as I do here.

    Let it all out. Tell me about my white privilege that allows me to live in safety and places no unfair hurdles in my path.

    I imagine some of you might have such words as “that is easy for you to say” or “Don’t speak for us” or “You have no idea how to face this situation”, “You are naive”, etc.

    Let it all out.

    Don’t worry, no matter how you word it, I will use what you say as a learning experience for me.

    I will not get defensive.

    I do need to hear it.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I do thank you for both standing up for me and for trying to understand.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Trying to understand……but unless I walk in your shoes….right, Sophia?

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I do have 3 notebooks from this year with print-outs from discussions I have had here and on the NBC blog of AA fellow posters who have shared their experiences; print-outs when they have clued me in on what is going on; print-outs from NBC blogs where AA friends and I have had back and forths with racists…..especially the covert ones (I have had help from AA friends there who have pointed out to me the code words that covert racists use; print-outs on the education they have given me on white-privilege; etc.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            It is gradually becoming more of an inner understanding.

            I also have had stunned moments within myself when I suddenly realize on my own another example of white privilege or another effect of the white power structures.

    • Romaine says:

      your good with me, everyone hear is ood with me the ones I’ve agreed to disagree with..I’m wondering what i’m going to do when this is all over I’ve spent much time on this site and will miss the experience of sharing with you all.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I feel we have all been meant to be brought together, Romaine.

        It means so much to me.

        And, you know, I really feel we will allows be together on a soul level.

    • Jasmine says:

      I’m sorry but seeing as you have tried to step into the shoes of a Black person and see our side of things, there is nothing for me to talk AT you about. Some don’t see and don’t want to see and that is the problem. I can tell you that you can’t experience what we have. It is the truth but you can and do try and that is all that anyone can ask. It is hard to be looked at as ‘suspect’ all the time or to feel as though you have to answer for all the ‘black on black’ crime. But that is life and it comes with burdens. I am sure that you have experiences that I haven’t had but I can try to see your point of view.

      We stand together for Trayvon! And that is what is most important.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Thank you for your honesty and wisdom.

        It hope you will point out my mistakes when I make them.

        You are right:

        We stand together for Trayvon and that is what is most important.

  11. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    Dear Lord let what the killer did in the dark…
    Come to the light…
    With a GUILTY Verdict.
    I so love you Trayvon.
    I pray for Justice.
    peace out ya’ll

  12. J4TMinATL says:

    New thread up

  13. tashatexas77048 says:

    We should all contact Kopelli’s gym and when someone answers we should say, “Yes, I’m interested in being an inept, wet noodle of a goofy ass weakling after paying hundreds of dollars to train at your gym like George Zimmerman. How do I sign up?”

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Or, “Yes, I would like to join your gym to spend hundreds of dollars to train in the art of grappling only to forget everything I’ve learned and shoot a teenager in the heart within 40 seconds of a conflict. How do I sign up?”

    • willisnewton says:

      Or, we could show some class and ignore the idiot who owns that place and not give him any more attention ever again. (He’s a loser. It’s best to avoid contact with people who assault others and train to beat others up. )

  14. Sophia33 says:

    I don’t think that the prosecution did a bad job in the case. HOWEVER, I don’t think that they did a PERFECT job. That was my complaint at the beginning of the case when I was so hard on the prosecution and people were getting mad at me. The requirement of perfect should NOT be needed. However, given how this country has handled cases like this in the past, I felt that PERFECT only gave them a chance. Because it was less than perfect, I feel that they have less of a chance. But ah, I there is still a chance – I guess. I hope.

  15. Yorazigo says:

    Anyone know why defense doesn’t want manslaughter charge?

    • concernedczen says:

      Why do you think?

    • Sophia33 says:

      They think if it is all or nothing (i.e. M2 or nothing) the jury will pick nothing. If manslaughter is included, they are afraid that he will be sentenced with manslaughter. If aggravated assault is used they think he will get that.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        JN will give the defense what they want? Don’t worry she is all in it…

        • Beverly says:

          I do not know your basis, but that is a very serious accusation against a woman who is well-educated and has been working very hard.

        • Yorazigo says:

          EIETTO, I can see by your comments how upset and concerned you are about this, and I feel very deeply for you. I do believe, though, that JN has ruled throughout this trial applying the law and has done all she can to avoid an appeal issue. I watched time and again her decisions go against the defense and their craziness. Please try to stay calm and positive and wait for the closing arguments tomorrow and Friday, then the decision will be in the hands of the jury. If the prosecution’s wrap-up is as powerful and moving as the opening statement, I’m sure GZ will be convicted and justice will prevail! Big hug of comfort to you!!

    • willisnewton says:

      because it carries a 25 year sentence? They want the jury to either convict on M2 or acquit on grounds of self defense. If they can get manslaughter off the table somehow – which I assume would be a heck of a trick – the next charge down is likely something they feel either their client would consider a partial victory, or else that a jury would not bother pressing for and instead acquit.

      This is a fight that has been long coming. The general argument has been that since GZ killed the only other witness to the altercation, he was free to claim anything he wanted and no one could really prove it didn’t happen the way he said it did. Then the argument goes – and trust me this isn’t MY arguemnt – just the general consensus of some out there in the world – that a jury will WANT to convict GZ but feel the state was not able to prove M2. Therefore they will ask the judge or receive instruction as to whether or not they can find him guilty on a lesser change. The next step down is manslaughter.

      The argument goes that the state intentionally overcharges so that they could get a manslaughter conviction. They are not supposed to do that, but then again people arent supposed to shoot unarmed teens with skittles either.

      It’s a “ends justify the means” tactic, the logic goes.

      I don’t buy it. I think the state was motivated to convict on M2 and believed it could do so.

      Depending on what they present at closing, they may still get there IMO.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        Thank you…

        “The argument goes that the state intentionally overcharges so that they could get a manslaughter conviction. They are not supposed to do that, but then again people arent supposed to shoot unarmed teens with skittles either. “

        • Malisha says:

          They already challenged the M-2 charge and it stuck.
          There was sufficient evidence of the M-2 to make it past the motion to dismiss charges.
          Manslaughter would presume his shooting was accidental; he says it was necessary to protect his life/limb.
          But he has not offered EVIDENCE of self-defense. So?
          They showed that various scenarios COULD HAVE happened, nobody testified that self-defense DID HAPPEN.
          So if self-defense is among the POSSIBLE FISH, then so is manslaughter.

    • Dave says:

      I think they’ll have a hell of a time coming up with a plausible argument against including manslaughter.

      • Thrace says:

        Without hearing closings that’s what I’m thinking right now. Split the baby and go with the lessor. GZ following & then chasing TM out of the car in the dark, his shifting stories and crime scene evidence will be hard to turn a blind eye too.

  16. Judy75201 says:

    I think that overall the prosecution has done a very good job and that closing arguments will be amazing. I’m completely unphased by the lack of rebuttal witnesses. It’s not like there was gonna be a Perry Mason Moment with any of the three. Cry and moan and beat your chest all you want. I say there is still hope. And a good hope.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      I share that same confidence. I have a strong feeling everybody will too when the State gives their closing arguments.

    • dianetrotter says:

      I agree with you Judy. Also an all white jury does not mean that all of them will hear the evidence the same way. Not all white people are racists. There are many white people who feel GZ should be behind bars. Look no further than this list. Many people want justice and I pray at least one one of those people is on the jury..

      • dremn2004 says:

        For the record, I am a caucasian female, a CWP holder in SC and between my DH (who is also caucasian), we own 3 handguns and 1 shotgun, and we both think that he is guilty and for whatever reason, only he would know, he basically executed Trayvon.

  17. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Granny exactly and some people called me interjecting race. this case was all about race. Not one of those prosecutors looked up once the judge gave orders. They knew they were told not to fight for justice by some heavy hitter. They allow a jury selection of GZ peers not Trayvon Martins. Can someone explain to me how in God’s name was the prosecution unable to locate one black person to sit on that jury in Sanford. Are jury people only WHITE! It was staged.

    Blacks have no rights and for them not to prepare their witnesses it was staged from the beginning. Totally ridiculous day!!! I want be wasting my time watching anymore of this crap… Closing arguments are a complete con game.

    Corey was only there to flavor the court room as if she was really concern. It is about her career status… These people need to burn in hell for their evil deeds…. Let God deal with them he is the only one can reward crooks and dirty deeds properly.

    How in God’s name were they even allowed to make that fat child murderer look like a saint. How do you exclude medical records he was running on psychotic drugs. And this doesn’t get into the jury pool.. It doesn’t matter when they selected all whites and no blacks from a town that large something is wrong…..

    They are really sending a statement to one nationality. Their is no justice.. And justice is not blind. Every person on that jury votes according to their life experiences. And coming out of Sanford you all should by now know what that verdict is… innocent when you kill a black child.

    • KateW says:

      Yes, the obvious cannot be ignored and this, like many cases like this all over the US, are about race. Most say had it been a Black man that stalked and murdered a White kid, he would have been arrested, jailed with no bond until trial and found guilty and put to death. There was another FL case of a Black man that says he shot a White man that came onto his property to attack his kid and he shot him in self defense. The Black man was immediately jailed.

      How about the Black teen, Jordan Russell Davis, shot after Trayvon by a White man, Dunn, who says he shot the kid because his music was too loud?? Not sure what happened in that case, I need to look it up. Anyway, this case has gotten more attention but there are so many more cases like it out there. Chavis Carter, Marissa Alexander, etc.

      • Thrace says:

        Dunn isn’t getting off. He’s still in jail. He’s charged with 1st degree murder and 3 counts of attempted murder. John Guy is helping with that case. Oddly, they have gone thru 2 judges so far like in this case. Defense asked for the first to be recused (accused her of bias-misdeeds) and no explanation that I’ve seen for the second one bowing out.

      • towerflower says:

        Kate……That case was in Georgia and not Florida and in that case the cops supported the father and it was an over zealous prosecutor who pressed it to a trial. His name is John McNeil. He was released for retrial after 7 yrs and pleaded guilty to manslaughter and released for time served. He did so to end it all and it cost him much…..his wife died while he was in jail. In that case there were also eye witnesses to the entire event and they supported McNeil.

        The Davis shooting has not gone to trial yet, it happened in Jacksonville, FL. The shooter claims self-defense saying a gun was pointed at him even though no gun was ever found and he fled the scene to his home in Central Florida and only turned himself in when word got to him that they knew who he was and looking for him.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think you’re overreacting. It’s the defense’s job to make the defendant look like a saint. That doesn’t mean that the jury thinks so.

      Have some faith in “God’s Plan.” When a mostly white – it isn’t all white jury convicts Fogen of whatever they’re going to lay on him, no one on the other side can claim racism, that’s fo’ sho.

    • towerflower says:

      Everyone, I understand your anger but there is one mixed raced woman on that jury. Sanford is about 80% white and from what I understand they went in order as they were weeded out. It appears to me that it was simply the luck of the draw and the jurors were seated in the order of their numbers. There were a few AA’s that made it to the final round including one that appeared would favor the defense based on his questioning.

      I don’t believe that Corey would jeopardize her career over this, a win would be a big boost to her favor and I can guarantee you if she does prevail then the other side will also scream set-up.

      Also early on, Judge Nelson went over Z’s medical records and determined what would be allowed and not allowed. My guess is that the medication list was on the do not mention list.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        And why? Now they want to smear Trayvon as a coke addict but this gun toting angry man on meds keeps the medicals concealed. Does that make any since. NO!

        I warn everyone before you choose a congressman or congress women make sure laws are set up to protect you in case you fall into this situation…. I’m tired of people putting the victims on trial…Trayvon can not speak for himself..

        This young man was walking home with a can of ice tea and a bag of skittles. Why is he dead?

      • Sophia33 says:

        And she appears to be that one juror who stares off in space. Let’s hope she has some sense.

        • type1juve says:

          I read that somewhere too. I just hope that the jurors will weed through the bs and find this spineless mofo guilty.

  18. Thrace says:

    I flipped over to HLN and good old racist Taaffe is on again. It occured to me while watching him, why are the Zimmermans so dang frightened that mobs are coming after them, yet Frank who the whole world knows is a racist and where he lives is on TV nightly.

  19. Two sides to a story says:

    Down memory lane with West. Will we see some more meltdowns?


  20. towerflower says:

    Hello everyone, I just got back from a 10 day trip to WV and NC. I missed everything so far. Can someone give me the highlights (good and bad) so I don’t have to re-read thousands of messages until I have more time.

    It’s been a good trip but I went into trial withdraw and haven’t seen a paper, tv, and no to very limited cell reception in the mountains.

    Thank you.

    • willisnewton says:

      Some lawyers argued. (are you kidding? you missed it.) Watch the closing and read some articles when it is over. We can’t be expected to summarize. Too much happened. Sorry to be flip.

      • towerflower says:

        Yeah, I missed it. I go on a camping trip at this time every year. Missed the Anthony case too when it was on. Did the GPS logs ever come out in the trial? That was my big question.

    • colin black says:

      14 days

      Day one prosecution GOOD. defence bad

      Day Two ditto

      Day three draw.

      Day 4 good prosection
      day 5 ditto
      day six ditto
      day 8 order restored win for ths State

      day 9 ditto day ten draw
      Day eleven a non rubber
      day twelve win for State
      day 13 ditto

      An today was weird way to weird to call Id say to day was cancelled.

      Ive heard of jury nullification today we got just entire day wasted nullification

      An tomorrow we have closeing arguments.

      DVD with directors commentary comeing to a store near you.

  21. Sophia33 says:

    MOM just said that his client is “worried”. I get some solace in the fact that he isn’t comfortable right now.

    • Thrace says:

      Today was the first time I noticed fear-panic in his demeanor.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Don’t buy MOM cons he isn’t worried about anything. JN gave him everything he wanted and then some. He plays the media…

    • Two sides to a story says:

      See – all is not on their side. Quite the contrary. He profiled, pursued, and killed a kid.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I trust that people will have their own feelings based on what they’ve seen.
      I’m guessing that folks here for the most part are not Buying into MOM’s media statements.

  22. Sophia33 says:

    The DOJ is still after Zimmerman too right? Also the Civil Case?

    • willisnewton says:

      we shall see about the DoJ. I’m not holding out much hope unless there is some compelling evidence that the state deliberately left out, like a text that says he was on the hunt for a (black person) etc. Seems unlikely.

      The civil suit is a done deal. Expect it to be filed no matter which way a jury votes, I’d say.

  23. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I want to post this to all of you:

    You are wonderful and compassionate!

  24. riisey007 says:

    I owe you all an apology, you guys said Zimmerman would want to testify. I do think that if he really really wanted to that he would have. I do no trust O’mara and West so I am not sure that it wasn’t just a little setup. I do believe that Zimmerman is just like the psychiatrist said on HLN, he thinks in his own mind that he did the right thing. This is why I wish we could have known what his psychiatrist diagnosed him with. Zimmerman will never feel grief for what he did only grief for himself and anger at his situation. This is what makes me so angry at this time because we have a man who was able to get thousands of dollars in donations, high powered attorney’s, his day in court but yet he will still never know what he did because he himself doesn’t even know. His damn parents know what is wrong with him but they have covered for him most likely all of his life, and this murder is no exception. They know he killed Martin but they don’t care as long as they get to lie on the stand for their son. I hate the fact that people sat up and took his story for fact.

    This is the end of this very quick trial and yet Martins parents still don’t get to hear out of Zimmerman’s mouth as to why he killed their child. Just a sad situation. I am at a lost for words for how I feel now that this trial has came to an end. I do not know what and how to feel about what the jury is gonna do when handed the trial and evidence on Friday evening. I do hope that no matter what that they put all effort into the evidence, ask questions and really give it their all. No prejudices, no biases. Please by all means think of how you would feel had your child been killed and he had not been doing anything at the time that someone deemed him suspicious, someone has to feel for Martin. I have no tears for Zimmerman.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      No, Riisey, it’s not the end.

      Another week to endure.

      Then retrial if his is a hung jury.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      And the judge didn’t allow this in court. Oh my God!!! But the dead person they slander him…..

  25. Ty Flair says:

    I just can’t give up now sorry I’m not ready to feel that pain of defeat. I will hold my head high like the Martin family to the end. I feel each of your pain on here that is upset but I’m not ready to feel that pain for myself. He will go to prison MURDER 2.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      I hope the Pros pulls out rebuttal witnesses tomorrow and kills it in closing. I hope for a M2 conviction. I just want to see that Hogs face when they send him to prison with a split screen of the Martins crying in jubilation.

    • Mary says:

      i second that. zimmerman committed murder in the second degree. this prosecution team knows what it’s doing.

      he will go to prison for murder in the second degree.

      • Malisha says:

        Actually Fogen committed First Degree murder. He committed the murder WHILE committing another felony (felony assault) with a handgun. In fact, he had time while he aimed and made sure to avoid shooting his left hand, to plan his murder. But I understand why Corey didn’t go for first degree.

        More significant to me is the fact that he had SO MUCH HELP! If you see people who really get victimized in the system, people who really are subjected to malicious prosecution, people whose due process rights really ARE violated, they do not get ONE PERCENT the amount of help Fogen has gotten. To me that is the great failure of America. We do not really help those who need our help; we help abusers and bullies.

  26. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I hope what comes from all of this is a reawakening to the need for constructive activism.

    We must never allow our voices to be silent. We must never be caught sleeping.

    Let us build up positive energies within ourselves so that we can be effective. Despair and anger will make us impotent.

    We must be honest about expressing our feelings about set backs as John Lewis did in this video below. But, after that we must be strong and work hard.

  27. breelee says:

    Thank you J4T and everyone here. I think what makes me want to cry the most is that I cant remember ONE good word said about Trayvon, not ONE! But I could write a whole list of good lies about fogen. I was under the impression that wouldn’t happen for either side.

    By no one talking about Trayvon, its like the state is agreeing he was a “bad” kid. I want the jury to see him on the horse, and with his family and my favorite picture, Tracy kissing his cheek. I want them to know he wanted to become a pilot, that he took care of his uncle and did volunteer work. They have to make them see he was just a normal kid!!!

    Its like the states hands were tied and they had gags over their mouths. I also worry how forceful the zimidiots said it was fogen screaming, but Tracy and Jahvaris let doubt be heard from them. Sybrina was a class act, but I almost wish she’d broken down. I feel awful saying that, but I know how people think, and they would believe a mom should burst into sobs, screaming “that’s my son!”.

    I pray the jury listens, truly listens to that tape. I hope they came in with an open mind. I wish I had more hope.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


    • KateW says:

      I was thinking, they should have asked Ms. Fulton to put in some good words about Trayvon, but then I thought better of it because it would open her up for character questions and the defense would likely ask about the drug use, why she sent him to his father and so on. So yeah, unfortunate but there is a method and reasoning here why it was best to leave his character out of it.

  28. KateW says:

    Anyone know the outcome of Donnelly and violations of sequestration.

    • willisnewton says:

      no sanctions, but a short tongue-lashing from the judge to the defense. She made excuses for them however in saying that since they had 200 witnesses listed they could not be expected to contact them all to instruct them about the rule of sequestration.

      The state cited some cases and the defense did as well but in the end it seems like the judge relied on the idea that the damage was not great since the Donnally guy acted on his own volition in listening to the tape and then contacting the defense.

      • KateW says:

        ok, thanks

      • elcymoo says:

        I think that Judge Nelson relied on the law, as much as she might have wanted to sanction the defense team. She’s been very careful to avoid giving them grounds for an appeal, despite West’s yammerings about how the Constitution mandates that a defendant should be allowed to throw unsubstantiated, irrelevant crap all over the robes of Lady Justice.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Yes, and I think it’s important that JN be as careful as possible. I don’t think the case is bought or thrown.

      • Malisha says:

        They could easily have contacted 200 people. They got money from more than that number of people. One mass e-mail was all they needed, if they didn’t spend all their time trying to intimidate prosecution witnesses or doxing on-line commenters.

    • Thrace says:

      Nothing came of it. Judge ruled against striking his testimony. Did come out that the Judge is privately investigating another witness who didn’t testify for the same violation.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Kate, read the reports above.

  29. KateW says:

    He won’t take the stand because the prosecution will rip him to shreds. And his demeanor would just make the jury question the veracity of his statements. I am sure the defense doesn’t want that.

  30. smokeegyrl says:

    There could be one rebuttal case in the morning if Fleischman can be reached. Which they will find out in the morning. Mantei will be in charge of that. That is the plan if not… that is when the closing will begin. Then Bernie will do his part. The state not only offered Manslaughter but Aggravated Assault as well but The Defense as objected to it. We will see what will happen to that of course. Let the fireworks begin in the morning. Like I said. I hate to be in Florida regardless. I know today was upsetting to all. AND the news media surely doesn’t make it any better. All they do is hype the problem.

  31. Thrace says:

    Looks like Ex-Chief Lee gave an interview to CNN. What I’m hearing so far, the case was hijacked before they could finish investigating, outside influences railroaded the investigation process, complaining about the family listening to the 911 tapes together, the SPD was mischaracterized and he was thrown under the bus. They just showed clips of all that, not the full interview.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      And no one will bother to ask what they would have decided if they had been allowed to “finish” their investigation. I specifically remember him being on the news saying it was an open and shut SYG case, I’ll bet no one will ask him about that either. Why do people still watch this mess?

      • KateW says:

        Good point Tasha. I didn’t know he had said the case was open and shut. Like I said another person with lots of excuses and no accountability because it is everyones fault but his.

      • Jeanette says:

        I remember that very well, tashatexas, in addition to his later complete reversal and disingenuous pleas that the SPD investigation was not yet completed offered only after the intense national public outcry.

      • Malisha says:

        People like Bill Lee get away with their crimes constantly. The corruption in our government is overwhelming! Each small piece of it leads to more and more in what is such a demoralizing tsunami of official sewage that I can hardly tolerate documenting any one instance. If I were to go back to the August-September 2011 point where this murder started, and document all the disgusting, appalling, shocking, horrifying acts of “normal average” people such as police employees, journalists, HOA members, property management folks, state officials, federal DOJ employees, etc., it would come to look like I was the lunatic because not so many people could ever have taken part in a flat-out racist murder. BUT THEY DID. They didn’t even do it because they wanted Trayvon Martin, or any other 17-year-old Black kid, shot through the heart with a hollowpoint bullet; they DID it because it is commonplace, everyday, hum-drum, lying, cheating, stealing, covering-up business-as-usual in our government. Someone like Bill Lee cut his teeth on it and he will die with honors still doing it unless he’s pissing off in an Alzheimer’s home somewhere instead. It is not unusual at all; he got unlucky in that his particular mountain of stench caught public attention and he was briefly disciplined for his visible misconduct. But his INvisible misconduct?

        90% of an iceberg is still underwater, and probably more than 99% of Bill Lee’s corruption (and that of his cohorts) is even more hidden than that. Yet any one of you who knows of something that really SHOULD be aired on the news, something that the nation should know about — nobody’s putting YOU up there to talk about it. They give their public minutes (remember what the ACLU said? Money = Speech) to Bill Lee.

        Hitler, Himmler, Goering, Eichmann, each of them had their detractors before they came to total power in Germany. Each of them had their enemies who tried to bring them down, who spoke against them. Can anybody name those noisy detractors today? Anybody? What were their names?

    • KateW says:

      Finish investigating?? LOL Another person with lots of excuses. Problems they had from the beginning 1. They did not do a thorough investigation. 2. No drug test. 3. Did not impound his vehicle. 4. Serino was leading and feeding the defendant information/assisting the defendant in covering up the crime. 5. they took him back to the crime scene the next day and allowed him to SEE problems and holes in his narrative and allowed him to adjust his story “accordingly”. This disgraced former chief needed to be thrown under the bus and backed over a few times. Where did he get his training? Where did they all get their training? On the back of a cereal box? That is why he is a FORMER police chief.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        You left out that they let Zimmerman wash his hands at the police station and was allowed to take and wash his clothes at home since they released him that same night.

        Let me see, we’re supposed to understand that the thug label stands, Trayvon had no right to defend himself and was supposed to submit to gz who had no right to detain him in the first place. The Queen’s English determines Rachel’s worth and determines if she is to be considered as a human being; therefore, it was okay to ridicule her in public. It was okay to treat Trayvon’s parents with the utmost disrespect; treat Zimmerman’s parents with the utmost respect. No character witnesses for Trayvon, but Zimmerman is allowed to have some. It was okay for the defense to hold TV interviews to poison the jury.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I am glad you can lay it all out and tell it, Granny!!!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:


            You as a elder from the civil rights era are in a position to offer not only me guidance but the younger generation as we respond to what is occurring today.

            I respect your opinion and will be grateful any guidance for me if you care to share some with me.

          • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

            YAHT, well, I don’t suggest that my people riot because that won’t solve or change anything. However, I understand their frustration because I am frustrated myself with today’s rulings. Not only that, I see the death of a black child being treated as a joke by some in the mainstream media, namely, HLN. What really bothers me is that Trayvon’s parent had to endure all of the ugliest along with their grief. They were attacked with stereotypes left and right and their parenting called into question.

            I thought a law against freedom of movement for blacks ended with slavery, but evidently, it hasn’t when a black child is considered a thug for walking along minding his own business and has to answer to a person with no authority whatever, has no right to defend himself against a white man who has a gun, and is blamed for his death. Post racial America is a myth and for that fact so is freedom and the rights of black people to be considered equal rights under the law.

            I need to pray.

            I’m highly upset at the treatment of Trayvon’s parents, Rachel, and even the states medical examiner. Since when did the Queen’s English become a determining factor in someone’s humanity or their integrity. Arianna Huffington is highly educated, yet I can’t understand two words out her sentence, no one ridicules her in public or doubts her integrity.

            I value human life. It’s the most precious gift a person can have. It bothers me, regardless of their skin color because I feel everyone has a right to live their life to the fullest and children are our future,

            I sat here and observed Connelly sit through a few days of court, the other ones violated the rules as well, lie through their teeth, but they were given a pass. Do you think that would have happened had it been a person of color? For that fact, do you think that they would have been given a pass if they killed a white child? A white child is given the right to walk anywhere in America free from harassment, why is the same right not given to a black child? A black child is considered guilty in America until proven innocent and the same people cheering for Zimmerman would be the same ones calling for that black child to be convicted. That child is tried, convicted, and sentenced automatically because black children are automatically considered thugs. In a murder a white child is a victim, but a black child is the aggressor.There is this double standard in our justice system and rules in our society.

            I have children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, nieces, nephews, and younger cousins. I come from a huge family on both paternal and maternal side, We’re decent, law-abiding people, many of them are professionals, college educated, middle-class. Yet, that means nothing in America.

            Every black mother’s fear when her male child leaves the house is that he’ll come home alive because they have to dodge the death angel 24/7.

            The black community trust in law enforcement or the justice system has always mistrust. All this talk about trying to establish trust with the black community, do you think the rulings today helped establish that trust?

            I through talking and going back to my corner and pray. I need to pray!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            I hear you, Granny.

            I will keep your words in my heart and will pray.

            May all the good people of our country roll up their sleeves and work tirelessly together to move our country in a FORWARD direction.

            May I (at 63) be wise in guiding and awakening my children and grandchildren to be active supporters of this all important cause so that your grandchildren and great grandchildren will not find themselves (when they are your age) writing what you are recording about today’s situation.

            I pray that they will not have express the feeling of “How long, Lord, how long?”

        • bettykath says:

          Shelly brought in a change of clothes. SPD confiscated his clothes. Letting him wash his hands and not doing a drug test are problems.

          • Malisha says:

            as well as not collecting the rest of the evidence that they should have collected, not taking him to the hospital, not testing the blood they cleaned off his face and hands (was it his or Trayvon’s?), telling witnesses on the scene what to say, ignoring other witnesses, discouraging witnesses, lying …

        • aussie says:

          He was NOT allowed to take home and wash his clothes. A change of clothes was brought for him by Shellie and he had to get changed and they KEPT the clothes he was wearing for evidence.

          He was allowed to keep on his under-shorts and to take home his wallet.

  32. willisnewton says:

    after a long afternoon, here is a list of things a word search does not bring up:

    kiosk, chase, Twin Trees Lane, TTL, pedestrian, surveillance, unarmed, seventeen.

    Are we talking about the same case here?

  33. J4TMinATL says:

    Bill Lee is on CNN right now. He’s a piece of crap.

  34. KateW says:

    Need to take some pictures in our hoodies holding ice cream cones.

  35. J4TMinATL says:

    Bill Lee is on CNN Now.

  36. Jeanette says:

    Also, I would appreciate any information as to whether there is any other method to donate to this site other than online.

  37. J4TMinATL says:

    I just remembered something. JN said to MOM twice that he had to officially rest in front of the jurors. MOM did not do that.

    • willisnewton says:

      That is a very important detail.

      (Maybe George will sleep on it and demand to testify after all. )

      I dont know what it means in legal terms but I think you are right. The defense didn’t say “we rest” in front of the jury.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        I never know if you are serious or joking. I know that Nelson said to MOM that he had to tell the jury that they were resting. I think JN missed it because of all the interruptions by MOMWEST and since jurors arrive tomorrow at 1:00 pm ET to hear closing arguments I don’t know if it won’t go on the record or not.

      • Yorazigo says:

        I think I heard him rest. When the jury came back in he said he had entered exhibits 30-38 (?) and told them defense was resting.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I believe he did. Mantei had begun his rebuttal.

    • HeresLookingatYOU says:

      Oliar did rest the defense case

  38. HeresLookingatYOU says:

    When you tell the truth… there is only one version of it….ONE not 5 not 6
    and it’s easy to tell..
    the witnesses were held accountable for what they simply heard or saw.. I think these women wanted to hear from the killer . They KNOW he is liar… I think they will hold him accountable..

  39. Jeanette says:

    As a J4TM supporter, I’m deeply disappointed with Judge Nelson’s decision regarding the sequestration violation. And, as a newbie here, I want to tread lightly as far as harsh criticism of the judge.

    However, as someone with some legal education, I’m trying to look at the circumstances surrounding the decision and the appropriateness of it from a legal perspective, yet still struggling, especially after having reviewed the FLA Evidence rule and the first 2 or so minutes of the first day of trial addressing sequestration, including extended arguments on the letter of the law.

    I’d be interested to learn anyone else’s thoughts, if you are so inclined, on whether this was even an appropriate ruling from a legal perspective.

    • bellesouth says:

      I am thinking that even though She-lie could’ve told Donnolley that witnesses can’t be in the courtroom, it was up to counsel to inform witnesses and there were so many witnesses that it was impossible to sanction them for not calling all of them, when they didn’t even bring 1/4 of witnesses in.

      • Jeanette says:

        Yes, during the first day of trial in response to the sequestration matter, the Judge concluded with specific instructions to counsel to advise their witnesses.

        Thanks for your reply.

      • Jose Padilla says:

        In big cases there is usually a bailiff stationed by the door who asks each person who comes in if they are a witness.

    • RobertSF says:

      I’m not a lawyer, but here are my two observations about Donelly’s testimony. One is that you can’t unring the bell. Even if jurors are told to disregard certain testimony, they’ve already heard it. The other is that I don’t think Donelly’s testimony was that important or that compelling.

      Now, I confess I didn’t hear all of it, but I believe he basically identified the screams as Zimmerman’s. Am I correct? I don’t think that testimony will carry much weight with the jury. I think the jurors will understand that nobody can really recognize anybody from screams, even though everybody wants and hopes it to be the one they’re supporting.

      • Judy75201 says:

        Agreed. I thought his testimony was preposterous.

      • Jeanette says:

        I tend to agree and don’t necessarily see failure to exclude testimony or levy other consequences as a dealbreaker in terms of verdict outcome; however, the violation was so blatant (he was sitting right in front of her in her courtroom) and the perjured testimony so clear (regarding a material matter-when he first heard the tape), I can’t wrap my head around her not taking action on either issue. And then there was the exclusion of Ben Crump as a sequestration concern, who she could’ve allowed using the same discretion she’s using now with Donnelly.

        Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

    • whonoze says:

      IANAL, but it seems there are “unwritten rules,” that is, there are certain things judges just don’t do unless some extraordinary peak of critical mass is attained. Apparently, one of these is grant a JOA motion, and another is to strike a witnesses testimony. So even if Manthei was on point with his case law, apparently no judge would have kicked Donnelly unless the violation was way more egregious than it was.

      JN hasn’t really made any unusual major rulings, as far as I can tell. I doubt she’ll grant the Defense motion to exclude manslaughter from the lesser included charges.But we’ll see soon. Her foremost priority seems to be to get the jury released ASAP.

      • willisnewton says:

        She also seems to have a priority not to do anything to give grounds for an appeal. What would have been accomplished by striking Donnelly’s testimony was not worth risking an appeal being heard over the issue.

        I think her ruling on the money-grubbing gym owner was along these lines as well. He was an obviously biased wanker that no one is going to believe anyways. If you take four to six hours of fight training every week for months on end it you are not going to be a 0.5 rated anything for long.

        I don’t have any serious problem with any of her RULINGS. I do question her ability to keep order in her courtroom sometimes. The defense was a hot mess and she let them act like idiots in her courtroom. Perhaps that was deliberate, however.

      • Jeanette says:

        Both you and willisnewton make some good points, particularly yours addressing major rulings and her potential concern for the jury and his mention of her possible concern to avoid reversal on appeal–a matter that I studied greatly in another life and only one of many which killed my idealistic notions of how jurisprudence plays out in real life.

        Thank you both for replying.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        whonoze says among other well thought points

        JN hasn’t really made any unusual major rulings, as far as I can tell. I doubt she’ll grant the Defense motion to exclude manslaughter from the lesser included charges.But we’ll see soon. Her foremost priority seems to be to get the jury released ASAP.

        my thoughts exactly. i expect manslaughter instructions to be read and considered. there is a reason o’mara is objecting to them and that is the legal battle to keep our eye on tomorrow. i am glad it is mantei arguing for the state and do have faith in the jurisprudence of judge nelson.

    • Dave says:

      In a perfect world, in isolation,I think it would be a bad decision. In the real world, where judges and lawyers have desks piled high with pending cases, where jurors are being kept sequestered at some secret location, separate from their families and livelihoods and when the miscreant witness’s testimony is unlikely to sway the verdict one way or the other it probably makes sense to let issues like this slide in the interest of a swift (and,I hope, just) verdict, particularly when sanctioning the witness might lead to costly and unpredictable appeals.

  40. Judy75201 says:

    There are still closing arguments, the defense rebuttal, and then the state’s rebuttal. Or am I missing something?

    • IMBack says:

      When the state rested its case, we said ..”oh just wait til the rebuttal.

      Now that there is no rebuttal case, and I have little expectation for the closing arguments. Im just confused and not one bit amused by this.

      • Judy75201 says:

        So you are saying not all witnesses were cross-examined by the State?

        • Thrace says:

          It’s all over Judy. State ended up having no rebuttal due to a ruling by the judge, state deciding against calling another witness due to the ruling and problem with getting a witness to court. All that is left is the closings which start tomorrow at 1pm.

  41. IMBack says:

    My closing arguement…..

    LLMPapa put up a better case than the prosecution

    The defense could not have spent 300,000 bucks on that weak and cheap ass defense.


    • tashatexas77048 says:

      It is disappointing that many of us spent time and energy putting together a case that WE THOUGHT the state would mention in the trial. BOY WERE WE WRONG. I feel like such a fool making a YouTube video about things that would sink Zimmerman only to have the State mention or properly explained none of it. 1. The fact that Zimmerman tried to distance himself from his own real time and recorded NEN phone call. 2. The clubhouse video. 3. The blood on his nose was not INTERNAL but external so at the bare minimum the blood would have been smeared all over his face if Martin had tried to smother him REGARDLESS of whether Martin’s hands were properly tested. The lack of smearing alone proves that Zimmerman was never smothered and he cannot lie and say those external injuries decided to bleed AFTER Martin died. Instead, they entertained the false notion that he swallowed blood when no medical report anywhere says this. BDLR’s dumb ass lets Di Maio get away with saying Zimmerman or someone else may have put Zimmerman’s nose back into place without mentioning the OBVIOUS FACT that Di Maio said he can only go on the evidence provided and if no evidence even suggests that THEN HE IS A WITNESS SITTING ON THE STAND MAKING THINGS UP.

      So many missed opportunities in a case where John Guy said the jurors would have to use their common sense. That means all of the common sense, door shutting arguments many of us put together were valid and the State was outsmarted by people on the internet. That’s a real damned shame.

      • RobertSF says:

        The lesson learned here is that lawyers aren’t half as smart as their reputation paints them.

      • IMBack says:

        Yea its lie the prosecution didnt put up much effort. I almost feel like they were just going through the motions. Angela Corey in court more than half the time and thisis the best their four brains and unlimited resources could do? Tasha imagine how LLMPAPA must feel! I would like to hear what he thinks.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Tasha, I know you are angry and disappointed. I just want to let you know that I will be praying for you and we are all here to come together and rise up for TM. Let’s all go through this together as one. Sending love to you.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          Thank you so much. Ya’ll know I’m just emotional and expressive, I don’t mean any harm. We are all in this together, this is my therapy, my family. God bless.

    • RobertSF says:

      I think BDLR himself could have done better. He could have vetted his witnesses better, and he could have cross-examined more aggressively. There were a number of points that were presented almost casually without hammering on them. For example —

      1.- Rachel Jeantel’s testimony that Martin was outside his father’s girlfriend’s condo when Zimmerman appeared. Since Martin then “walked fast” away from him, and since he obviously walked North, Zimmerman also just as obviously came from the South. That means Zimmerman circled around Retreat View Circle. I don’t know how that could have been presented without the objections of speculation and conjecture, but smart lawyers have ways.

      2.- That Zimmerman could have more plausibly cut his head on the metal sprinkler head embedded in the grass. The sprinkler heads were documented by the police, and one of them was right there, inches from Martin’s body.

      3.- That the flow of blood from Zimmerman’s head indicates he bled in a vertical and not horizontal position, and that he became vertical fairly soon after cutting himself. Had he remained horizontal for long, the blood would have smeared and formed a “skull cap” instead of distinct rivulets.

      4.- That the blood from Zimmerman’s nose came not from the nostrils but from the two small cuts on the tip of his nose. Given that the blood had not gone beyond Zimmerman’s upper lip, and given how quickly true nosebleeds flow, and given the patterns of the abrasions and bruises, I think it’s more plausible that gun recoil sent his fist into his own nose than that Martin punched him.

      That said, I think Guy and Mantei did reasonably well, and I’m glad Mantei will give the closing arguments (or at least that’s what I understand). He’s a logical thinker and a persuasive speaker.

      • IMBack says:

        And if they don’t cover Num 2-4 closing arguments, then this case was all a just a show from the get go.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Yes, I just made an inventory of what the jury will take with them to the jury room, and that is quite considerable.

        One written statement, 4 audio interviews, one video reenactment, and one interview with Hannity.
        The nen call and the 911 calls.
        The phone records and more specifically that GZ got off the phone at 7:13:40 and Trayvon’s call with Rachel ended at 7:15:43. That GZ claims it took him 2 minutes to walk from RVC to the T, which shouldn’t have taken more than 20 seconds tops.

        That Trayvon was shot 40 ft south of where GZ claimed Trayvon jumped him.

        That there was no blood or DNA on Trayvon’s sleeves, cuffs and under his fingernails that was foreign to him.

        The only evidence in GZ’s favor are John Good’s statements, but the prosecution should be able to show that the 10 seconds he was watching, were at the beginning of the altercation.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @robertSF — i do respect your postings but will respectfully ask you to consider the following in relation to the four points you raised

        1. not provable BARD because of varying eye witness testimony, does not make sense to argue. suggest on closing, perhaps.

        2. other options for head injury thoroughly explored with both prosecution MEs as well as defense expert and all testified it is possible. expect to see in closing statements.

        3. effect of gravity flow brought up in testimony with almost every medical witness was confirmed, expect to see in closing arguments. using the defense’s favorite photo of head injuries and rotating them before the jury’s eyes to demonstrate would be powerful.

        4. again, i don’t think that is provable BARD based on examination of photos alone. defense ‘fire arms and defense’ expert demonstrated holding the pistol from a horizontal position and that is where his hand wound up. i’d hope it would be suggested in closing.

        let’s pass judgement when closing arguments have concluded.

  42. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  43. breelee says:

    I’m so depressed I cant function. All through this mess, Poor Trayvon was invisible or trashed. He was no longer a precious boy, a beloved son/brother, friend,no longer even a teen, he was Mr.Martin and dead body parts. He suffered the injustice of having his short life snuffed out, and now the court system, politics and a dirty defense team has stolen what dignity he had left.

    All that wonderful young man did wrong, was run into a killer. Now his good name is gone, and all that’s left for his loved ones is more trashing and pain. A lot of this could have been avoided with a gag order many moons ago. On the small chance fogen is convicted, this boys family will never get the support other parents of dead children receive. They will forever have to defend lies, EVIL lies about their son. The son who had a bright future until a wannbe cop decided to take his life.

    I’ve never in my life thought something like this could happen in The USA and especially these PC times. When did it become okay to call a murdered child vile names? What kind of society do we live in? I don’t care what anyone says, black children don’t matter to an huge amount of our neighbors. I see now why I spend more time with my dogs, than I do people. I’m white, and I want to hug every black child I see, because I fear they’ll be next. Next to be killed and have a whole nation say they were bad and deserved to die.

    Re: the suit Sybrina and Tracy will file against fogen. Isnt Fl. where OJ moved to keep from paying the Goldman’s what he owed? If so, they wont even have that to punish their sons killer with.

    Why didn’t they bring the new investigators in? Why didn’t they get Serrino to admit he wanted to charge fogen? Too many other things to list, but those two really stick out for me.

    • J4TMinATL says:


      We are with you. We don’t know the answers to many questions and we may never know but we have to accept that both sides have rested. The facts that we have all stood by have not changed. Common sense will prevail.

      We’re here for you bree. (((hugs)))

    • boyd says:

      The theory we learned at the end of today from Guy was Trayvon was assumed by Zimmerman to be the guy who had been robbing houses. I forget his name but he lived in RVC near the rear exit.

      For a while I wondered why he got out of the car , after he told police they always go to the rear entrance. so Just drive to the rear entrance.

      I believe Fogen knew kinda where he lived , so when he saw Trayvon he assumed it was the thief.

      He had the wrong person and he’s going to walk away free as well

      • elcymoo says:

        But GZ knew that Burgess had already been caught before the night he stalked and killed Trayvon, didn’t he? I seem to remember his admitting it to Detective Singleton when she pointed out to him that they didn’t ‘always get away’.

        • type1juve says:

          GZ really didn’t care if it was Burgess or not. He saw a black male walking and took it upon himself to ask for his papers. This was not new behavior for him. He had been enabled by the SPD and the HOA to harass black people, specifically black males. If he is not convicted I predict he will go on to murder again.

      • Yorazigo says:

        Didn’t Bartalan say there were TWO young black guys?

        I thought Burgess was arrested but other one wasn’t and that GZ probably thought that Trayvon was the other guy?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Thank you for expressing all of these feelings that have been going through my being today.

      We need to lock our arms and hearts together so we are as one. Then we can lift each other up and stay strong in spirit not just for what’s ahead in the next few days but what’s ahead in the next weeks, months and years ahead.

      We have to get through the ups and downs together so that we can continue to stay strong against the darkness that is out there. We have to always demand forward movement toward a better society.

      Through this case and through Trayvon’s spirit we KNOW that the struggle continues on. We must always be present wherever we find injustice and keep on a’walking, spotlighting and standing against injustice and racism.

    • RobertSF says:

      That last female witness, Olivia Bertalin, illustrated well the fear that so many whites have about blacks. When the two guys rang her doorbell, she looked through the upper-story window and then shrank in fear despite not knowing what they wanted. They could have been Jehova’s Witnesses. They could have been selling magazine subscriptions for school. And sure, they could have been burglars, which they were, but she didn’t know that.

      She should have opened the window and asked, “Hey, can I help you?” The two guys would have mumbled something and hightailed it out there because they didn’t want to mess with anybody home. They just wanted a TV.

      Instead, her fear became a self-fulfilling prophecy. She didn’t answer the door, which led the burglars to believe the house was empty, which led them to burglarize it while she shivered in fear upstairs. It was a completely avoidable burglary.

      • Thrace says:

        I thought that was foolish on her part not to holler out from the upstairs the window, what do you want? Didn’t she leave her sliding glass door unlocked too and that’s how they got in? I remember reading that in one police report from RTL. Anyway, if someone comes to my door at night or sometimes during the day that I don’t know, I always opened up the window and ask what can I do for you. Usually someone trying to sell me something.

    • Sophia33 says:


      I understand how you feel. For me, however, I knew this would happen in the USA, because it has been happening. A black life has never meant as much as a white life in this nation’s history and that extends to our children.

      Most of us know this when we walk outside our homes in the morning. We expect nothing else. I remember my father telling me, a black girl, to not mouth off to the police no matter what they are doing.

      I remember I wrote a poem long ago called “Resume in Time”. I wrote it after Mae Jamison, the first black woman in space was thrown on the ground and handcuffed in an act of police brutality. I thought, wow, she must of got her resume out in time that she was an ASTRONAUT before they harmed her further. Not that a resume should be needed, but you MIGHT have a chance if you have some initials after your name. So in the poem I questioned what would happen if I didn’t get my resume out in time if ever stopped by the police.

      When black people talk about white privilege we aren’t talking about monetary or tangible goods. We are talking about what you just said. There are many white people who feel that racism is over. For us, that is not true. We don’t go around thinking that we are “past” racial division. White and black people live in parallel worlds in the same country. White people have the privilege of having more faith in the judicial system then we do.

      Some of my classmates are Canadian. When they are in the US they are always talking about how it is a different world to them. They think things in this country are crazy with regards to race. Having travelled to Canada a lot when I was younger I do see what they mean. I’m not saying that Canada has no racial issues, but the nuances are completely different and it is always interesting to see some of my classmates pick up on things that many of my white classmates let go unnoticed. The same can be said of the couple UK classmates that we have.

      We don’t live in a post-racial America. It isn’t over.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Tell it, Sophia!

      • breelee says:

        Sophia, please accept this big cyber {{{hug}}}. Thank you for your gracious and honest post.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        My (“white”) son wrote an illustrated report on Mae Jamison for his 4th grade class. He spent a lot of time talking about and researching her life history, education and achievements, and put it on a timeline he made so that the whole class could know what he’d learned. (I knew nothing about her or any other post-Apollo astronauts.) He got an A for all his efforts and was very proud of his depth of knowledge about her. But I never heard about the incident where she was roughed up and handcuffed until right now.

        But I’m beginning to see the light; it resembles what Jews experienced during the 1930’s in Germany.

    • Malisha says:

      To me the fact that they didn’t confront Serino with the three drafts of his memo for the capias is the biggest “tell” that the prosecution was pulling punches.

      Yet I think Fogen will be convicted.

  44. boyd says:

    I hope Sybrina can sue Sanford for hundreds of millions and the state legislature for their gun laws.

    No drug test on Fogen, and he should have been required to go to the Hospital for tests. Incredulous you shoot someone and the only tests are completed. on the victim to be used against the victim.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      My goal is to see that all states adopt the standard to drug and alcohol test anyone involved in a shooting. No skating for self-defense claims.

      • Malisha says:

        I think EVERY homicide should have a coroner’s inquest hearing, and every person who is connected with the death by means of agency (shot someone, beat someone, etc.) should be required to participate. The subject does not HAVE to testify but if the person chooses NOT to testify and later becomes a suspect, at which point he or she wants to put forward a claim of self-defense, every single bit of the coroner’s inquest is automatically in evidence when and if charges are drawn.

  45. Deborah Moore says:

    I want to thank everyone who comments here for making the last three weeks more meaningful.
    I’m moved by the thoughtful comments, the witty banter – especially when it has gotten tedious – the deep well of faith in the benefits of positive light flowing between us all.
    I still think Colin’s “handbags in the morning” line wins the day.
    Great color commentary. Wait a minute, am I bad for using that term?
    Hugs to all.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thank you, Deborah Moore!

      If it’s naughty, let me say it again too – HANDBAGS!

      • Deborah Moore says:

        There’s always time for naughty, Two!
        And, may I also say that Tsar’s The Cheese Stands Alone also Made my day. Wonderful minds here.

    • Sleuth says:

      Now ya gonna get me balling again. 🙂

      I’ve learned so much from you, and many others here. It’s been wonderful being here.

      Using what “term”? I guess if I had to ask, it could not have been bad, whatever it is.

      Continue to keep the faith, and lots of hugs back atcha!

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Oh, you! Isn’t it great to be a sleuth? A follower of details and evidence towards find the truth and justice?
        And, oh so much more about human frailties, fears, and the ego, which I’ve always thought was the hint about what real self esteem is all about.
        And, here’s a tissue, hon. Got the box here right on my desk. Close by.
        Hoodies Up has been such a wonderful phrase to Suck it Up, get real and Stand Up for what we believe.

    • cielo62 says:

      Deborah Moore~ Keep the faith. This trial isn’t over, in spite of the “The End Is Near” gloom and doom trolls.


  46. esentrick says:

    can someone clear something up for me. Did the judge state she is conducting her own investigation on a witness that has NOT testified?

    • boyd says:

      yeah she did, but she won;t do anything….. as usual just make a face.

      • esentrick says:

        I agree. I just dont see the point. If she allowed a witness who testified that was caught sitting in the courtroom AND the lawyers knew this but did not notify the court or the state AND STILL called the witness to testify; why investigate a witness who did not testify? That is some backwards azz shyt.

  47. gldgirl63 says:

    ok so prosecution has no rebuttal case?????
    if not what could that mean …… could it be good or bad for the proscecution…..????

  48. Cynthia, TX says:

    I am starting to think that also.

    The concealed weapons guy testified that he was not a great shooter with his right hand and testified that his dominate hand was his left the one he used to shoot with in the class

  49. PiranhaMom says:

    Dear Friends and Leatherman Law Blog associates:

    My guts were tied in a knot a year ago when the Sandusky case went into jury deliberation. Penn State employs/funds over 50% of that town and IIRC there were Penn State employees/vendors/alumni on the jury. The jury pool was saturated with Penn State fans. I thought there was no way the jury would break against Sandusky and the power structure – and for those helpless, scarred boys.

    I was stunned by the thoroughness of the verdict.

    SLAM! the bars closed on Sandusky.

    Thus I am hopeful about the turn of events today.

    I fought hard to get everybody’s attention (here, and other venues) to roust Donnelly. But do I think excluding his testimony is a deal maker/deal breaker? Hell no. Would have given me great satisfaction – but not if there could later be a reversal of a guilty verdict. So — OK by me.

    There’s a wide array of verdicts to be offered to the jury. Apparently only the manslaughter verdict will be fought by O’Mara/West. I expect it to stay in, and be a viable option. I expect there to be a majority on this jury to convict Zimmerman on Murder two, with one or possibly two refusals. At that point, the foreperson and other jurors start to negotiate with the recalcitrant(s). I believe with all that’s offered to them now, they’ll come in in with a conviction at some level. And if it’s a lower-level offense, Judge Nelson will sentence THE MAX.

    I look for the jury to reach its verdict Monday, sleep on it, and bring it in on Tuesday morning. And that its verdict has a sentence minimum of 20 years. But I look to Judge Nelson to sentence at the maximum.

    I recognize many of you are angry and dispirited. Blame is already being cast.

    I, however, keep the faith.

    • ZCBest says:

      Ditto x2.

      Keep the faith. Justice for Trayvon!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      X3. It’s a strange decision, but not a deal breaker.

      Hoodies up!

    • type1juve says:

      Thank you for this post. It is just what many of us need to hear right now. I have to say I am saddened and discouraged with the way this trial has progressed thus far. We have 3 very capable prosecutors who failed to prosecute this case to the best of their abilities. There has to be a reason for that, and like John Guy said it makes me sick to my stomach to ponder what those reasons might be.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        + the defense threw nails and glass on the racetrack in an attempt to flatten the prosecution’s tires!

      • cielo62 says:

        type1~ Maybe the handicap to keep the SPD out of it had alot to do with their inability to bring all cannons to the fore. Still I think they did more than enough damage to gzs story and he WILL be sent away for life.


    • gldgirl63 says:

      thanks for the insight…..i don’t expect a m2 verdict…..but a manslaughter verdict…. definately…. hopefully not anything less

      • fauxmccoy says:

        gldgirl63 says

        thanks for the insight…..i don’t expect a m2 verdict…..but a manslaughter verdict…. definately…. hopefully not anything less

        i think that was always the reality, although there was a case to be made for M2. there is a reason o’mara wants it excluded and that is the legal battle to keep your eye on tomorrow. mantei will be arguing for the state and that is a good thing.

        • gldgirl63 says:

          do you think the proscecution overcharged in this case…….??? i kinda feel as if thought they couldn’t prove m2 they could still get manslaughter…..(just sayin)

          • fauxmccoy says:

            no, i do not think they ‘over charged’. i have never bought that argument. i said there is a valid M2 argument in this poorly investigated mess of a case, but there is a solid manslaughter cased as well.

            in florida, the penalty for either is half your life in the pen or more, so i have never really cared if jury found guilty on manslaughter, although i believe it to be M2.

            the very fact that o’mara objected to the judge including the jury instructions for manslaughter in court today and that is what both sides will be arguing in the morning should tell us all where his fears are. i expect the instructions will come in and that the jury will consider it honestly.

          • gldgirl63 says:

            and do you also feel as i that the proscuetion didn’t object to certain things…..because the jury can use their common sense on many things that were brought out in this…case that is my thoughts at least that is what i would hope….

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i wish i could answer that better, but i cannot. i think they made some mistakes, so did the defense.

            i think some things that people wish were brought up would have been bad for their case. specifically, i refer to the quality of evidence obtained by the SPD. the purpose of this case is to secure a conviction of the defendant. i fail to see how it would improve their case to bring up ANY faults of SPD, when we already know the defense will. as a prosecutor, you should not be arguing your opponent’s case.

            not sure if that helps, just where i see things.

          • gldgirl63 says:

            that is why i could not understand the witnesses in the 911 calls they all seem to be turned into defense witnesses……and visa versa i guess we will never really know what happened that night….but i don’t believe it was self defense…nor do i believe he was in fear for his life….. i think he felt like a big man with a gun…..and he was determined not to let the next suspecious person get away…… (just sayin)

    • boyd says:

      Sandusky had no chance in hell. Here in Pa, everyone wanted to hang his ass.

      Zimmerman would get serious time in PA. Pennsylvanians don;t believe in crazy explanations. Dead kid and he got out of the car…. That’s all we need to hear.

      I feel bad for the Prosecution, don;t know what happened on the rebuttal.

      Hoping the Jury thinks like us

    • truthseeker66 says:

      @PM, I ask this respectfully. Do u really think TM case is similar to sandusky? I will grant justice was delayed due to $ with football etc. But at the end our society collectively despise pedophiles. Racism is an institution in the US.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        I felt the pressure on the jurors in the Sandusky case greater than in the Zimmermman case.

        I am not relating racism to pedophilia.

        I have a high regard for jurors. I expect them to deliver a verdict unfavorable to Zimmerman.

        • amsterdam1234 says:

          I am with you piranhamom. The State could’ve done a better job, but I believe it should be enough.

    • roderick2012 says:

      But I look to Judge Nelson to sentence at the maximum.

      Obviously you missed her dancing by the defense’s music all day today.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        She has to guarantee to the best of her ability that the verdict not be overturned. That’s what she was dancing on: case law.

        Contrary to your view I did not miss what she was doing.

        Her track record for severe sentences is known.

        She also has a track record in child advocacy.

        • roderick2012 says:

          She has to guarantee to the best of her ability that the verdict not be overturned. That’s what she was dancing on: case law.

          What does that have to do with her dismissing the State’s contention that Donnelly violated the order of witness sequestration without even an investigation?

          What about allowing the defense to use the animation that doesn’t even agree with George’s recorded statements?

          And if George is convicted on a lesser charge don’t expect Nelson to give him the maximum sentence.

      • disappointed says:

        I am praying for murder2 but I will take any conviction we can get, that way the gun is taken away from a man we know will use it on “our” children. I believe in these women, I hope they do not let Trayvon down.

    • Sleuth says:

      ~ PiranhaMom

      Thank you so much for posting this. I totally agree, no deal breaker, it is what its, and I support you 100%.

      Hoodies Up! Justice for Trayvon Benjamin Martin will prevail!

    • Yorazigo says:

      PM – Thank you for your encouraging post.

      I remember thinking that no way would Sandusky be found guilty in that Penn State environment and was very pleasantly surprised that he was convicted.

      I’m hopeful these women in Sanford will see the truth about GZ through the garbage defense has put out, and that they will have the courage to stand up for what is right and just!

    • Malisha says:

      Well said. I actually expect a Murder-2 conviction. I can see that a juror or two would be a Fogen supporter but not a “this is the most important thing in life” kind of Fogen supporter. He, after all, is not a very sympathetic figure to ANYONE.

    • cielo62 says:

      PiranhaMom~ I, too, stand with you. So many naysayers and doom predictors. It’s so easy to get pissed and think the game is over. Maybe ONE game, but the WAR is ours. The autopsy reports, the medical examiners with their finding of INSIGNIFICANT injuries, the NEN call, all the previous 911 calls PLUS the 911 call with the screaming… THESE are the meat of this trial, and they’ve been covered and hammered. I had higher expectations for some of the people on here, but their crying and wailing makes we feel like they have NO stamina and NO ability to keep more than one salient point in mind. There are a few wonderful and notable exceptions, but REALLY! “The fix is in” is one phrase that makes my blood boil because there is NO EVIDENCE that there is ANYTHING being fixed about this case.


  50. newmediacounsel says:

    Not sure why comment didn’t appear

    So will there be a rebuttal because I find the above comments confusing. It sounds like if the agent shows up, yes, but if not, no?

    • Thrace says:

      That’s what I thought till O’Mara held his presser. He said no more testimony from either side. So not sure if Mantei decided against calling him or the agent isn’t available….That’s if O’Mara know what he’s talking about.

      • newmediacounsel says:

        We will know tomorrow. He may be assuming they can’t get him since its open ended. Although the fact they didn’t prepare to have him is a sign of how bad the prosecution was in this case. I feel like they threw this case.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          Just a warning, there is a newmediacounsel person posting on CTH site using same name.

        • Thrace says:

          The only explanation I can up for that, is the prosecution was looking for some way to bring in a “prior bad act” to get around the court’s earlier ruling (and to keep Trayvon’s past acts coming in). Until Pollock and Root both testified that GZ wasn’t capable of fighting I think they didn’t see an opening. Also the agent lives in Tampa now, IIRC.

          • newmediacounsel says:

            Prior bad act wasn’t the only hole they needed to plug.

          • Malisha says:

            Tampa is not on the moon. I think FDLE told him to stay home and shut up. It might come out that the prior case was a fix and FDLE could not risk that coming out. If you fix a case of a guy attacking a cop, and then you give him a CCW permit, and then you make him the warlord of a neighborhood, and then your police force refuses to take complaints about him running around with his gun scaring the residents, and then he up and kills an unarmed kid, do you see how somebody’s head has to roll?

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Cons tree house your user name is registered here and at the racist site.

  51. Cynthia, TX says:

    Can someone explain to me how if GZ is left handed why was he carrying the gun on his right hip in the back? It’s his dominate hand. We have seen him writing with his left hand all the while in court.

    • V says:

      Police said the discrepancies were minor. That’s why more time was not spent on them. Police where in on coverup. Pray for the Feds to come in and clean up…

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Cynthia –

      I replied to you yesterday with this info.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Because guns for lefthanded people are rarer and cost more. Many lefties shoot with their right hand.

    • bellesouth says:

      He shoots with his right hand. I asked the same question.

    • Danita says:

      Well lets hope closing arguments will tie up all the loose ends in the case. There seems to be many unanswered questions, the defense in my opinion had witnesses who worked overtime in favor of foggen. The prosecutions witnesses were more believable imo, the defense had people who were over the top.This case would not be a case if foggen would not have chased trayvon ran after him and followed him. The jury at the very least should understand this man holds some accountability for Trayvons death.

    • Malisha says:

      He shoots with right hand. Practiced at the shooting range with right hand. Frequently, lefties do learn to shoot right-handed.

    • cielo62 says:

      Cynthia~ I answered this 3 times.


  52. petco33 says:

    When I think of Trayvon,

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Yes, we cannot let the sickness in our society continue. We need to cure it when we can, and eliminate the cancer with wise, constructive means.

      The quoted lyrics which will FOLLOW this paragraph are an important part of the song for me (I would change the word “rebel” to “stand constructively against the wrongs but WITHOUT violence”. Violence is a direct road to impotent results. As the Beatles said in “Revolution”–” But when you talk about destruction Don’t you know you can count me out”)

      >I find it hard to say, that everything is alright
      Don’t look at me that way, like everything is alright
      Cuz my own eyes can see, through all your false pretenses
      But what you fail to see, is all the consequences
      You think our lives are cheap, and easy to be wasted
      As history repeats, so foul you can taste it
      And while the people sleep, too comfortable to face it
      His life so incomplete, and nothing can replace it
      And while the people sleep, too comfortable to face it
      Your lives so incomplete, and nothing can replace it
      Fret not thyself I say, against these laws of man
      Cuz like the Bible says, His blood is on their hands
      And what I gotta say, and what I gotta say, is rebel
      While today is still today, choose well
      And what I gotta say, is rebel, it can’t go down this way
      Choose well, choose well, choose well…


  53. Thrace says:

    According to MOM they didn’t bring up the pot because they didn’t want to get into the weeds about intoxication levels.

  54. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  55. Judy A Vallejos says:

    back from town what is happening???

    and can you believe there are no damn potatoes at the store???? good grief….

    please someone tell me the “REAL” cop Is going to testify tomorrow about zimmerass hitting him please anyone I beg you

  56. Two sides to a story says:

    Mantras for Precarious Times

  57. Woow! says:

    Lets all pray that the 6 women sitting on that jury saw through the defense witnesses. Even without knowing much about the law

    1. one can clearly see that CAC was not law enforcement so why would experts testifying about police procedures apply to this case
    2. I am sure those women would not know their neighbors screams if they were next to them balling at the top of their lungs
    3. O’Mara and West turned those women off with their rudeness and disrespect.

    The only way CAC is set free is if the two women that should not have been on the jury are CAC supporters and I still believe one of them was a strong supporter.

  58. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  59. KittySP says:

    Goodnight all! Calling all PRAYER WARRIORS to take it to THE KING! Humble yourselves before Almighty God in Heaven, pray, believe, and receive forgiveness for that which is not pleasing in His sight, that he would create in you a clean heart so that you can worship him in Spirit and in Truth.
    Always mindful, the battle is not yours, it’s The Lord’s

    Peace and Blessings

  60. Thrace says:

    MOM is saying there will be no more testimony. So unless he’s lying I guess the ATF agent is out.

  61. Woow! says:

    I find it quite funny after today’s rulings sane folks (I include myself in that group) think CAC may have a chance skate.

    The crazy folks (those who post on known racist sites) seem to think that it is a shame that a decent man cannot protect his neighborhood and if found guilty, white people will not be able to protect their wives and children. They think it is open season on white people.

    • DruDo says:

      Woow, I consider myself to be moderately sane, but wondering if there is any sanity in FL. We all had lots of faith in the pros., but am now wondering if it was justified. Now we’re hoping the jury will do the right thing and convict that murderer and send him to prison for a long, long time, but after all, they all live there where anything goes. I’m hoping they’ll keep in mind that if they let this murderer off the hook, he could be living in one of their neighborhoods. I sincerely doubt they would like CAC roaming around their streets armed with a loaded gun. But then, you never know. I’m hopeful those six women will sort through all the lies and deception thrown at them from the defense and think of Trayvon.

    • Malisha says:

      GOOD! Then they all will degenerate into even MORE crazy. NOT that I think it is good to live among such people when they are even more crazy, but on the other hand, they are a trial and a tribulation to each other as well.

  62. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Well, I don’t have to get up at 5 a.m. in the morning anymore. I can get my senior citizen sleep and rest now. Let’s see closing arguments tomorrow and jury back with their judgment on Fri. So, I’ll read the BS on Sat.

    @groans, sorry to hear about your nephew. I pray that you have a safe trip and that your family is saturated with love from friends during your hour of grief. Weeping endureth for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

    • groans says:

      Thank you, Granny.

      Weeping endureth for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

      Yes…. At my age, I’m no stranger to grief. This one is so odd because I lost my brother (this nephew’s dad) last year. Who could have imagined we’d be going back to bury his son so soon. But, at least my brother didn’t have to suffer through losing his son.

      Thanks again.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        groans, I know how you feel. For the last couple of years, we’ve had deaths in our family left and right. I attended a funeral for a relative last week and another one a couple of weeks before that.

  63. Sophia33 says:

    All we can do is pray, meditate and send positive energy now.

  64. anita says:

    I’m going to go watch politics nation. I’m still trying my best to keep some hope alive.

    • Malisha says:

      Keep your hope alive, anita. Remember, actually, that the defense did not MAKE a real affirmative self-defense argument at ALL. Not one witness claimed to have seen or experienced self-defense. Some said it was POSSIBLE and some said Fogen was the kind of guy who could be hurt and beaten and blah blah blah but DID anyone say they saw Trayvon Martin attack him? He was the only one who could say that and he couldn’t risk it.

      Jury instructions WILL say that they should consider only evidence. Possibility of things happening is not evidence that they did happen.

      Here’s another thing that COULD have happened: A helicopter COULD have flown over Sanford and dropped an ostrich down at 7:15 pm on 2/26/2012, whose shadow COULD have scared Trayvon who COULD have thought something bad was about to happen and who COULD have shouted and flung his arms out to protect his head and that COULD have made his left hand meet Fogen’s nose on the right side that that COULD have stunned Fogen who fell on his ass and he COULD have had a brief hallucination while the ostrich ran off squawking and he COULD have pulled his gun and tried to shoot whatever had attacked him and he COULD have accidentally hit Trayvon right in the heart. But is that reasonable doubt?

      I. DON’T. THINK. SO.

      Let’s presume that the jurors are intelligent enough and honest enough to want to do right; they have enough evidence to let them do right.

      I hold you in the light. Peace.

  65. KA says:

    I feel ill. I hope to God the fact that GZ is not testifying in a self defense case is looked at poorly.

    If it was self defense really, why not testify?

    I know I would wonder.

  66. J4TMinATL says:

    To the Fulton and Martin family and her son, Trayvon Benjamin Martin who is in heaven. We stand by you. We love you Trayvon.

  67. bellesouth says:

    He’s explaining how he coerced Zimmerman not to testify.

    • type1juve says:

      That’s bullshit! No one tells Fogen what to do, if he wanted to testify he would have.

    • Xena says:

      Yeah — “George wanted to tell a story.”

      Emphasis on “a”.

      • fauxmccoy says:


        Yeah — “George wanted to tell a story.”
        Emphasis on “a”.

        yes. emphasis on ‘a’, emphasis on ‘story’ and special emphasis on what was unsaid ‘on the witness stand’. i never expected him to testify, but i will be disgusted with stories told later.

      • groans says:

        I think he meant to say “another” story.

  68. bellesouth says:

    O’Mara up at presser.

  69. ay2z says:

    Trying to catch up after leaving during the first Kokopuffs rebuttal witness. Scrolling up is taking a long time, and see that Donnelly and the defense got away with their manipulations.

    Donnolly sat and listened to the neighboring witnesses, including ALL of the NEN calls hearing, in which the NEN calls by the person he was to ID on the 911 call.

    He and his wife are the sleasyest. Never trust a real estate salesperson.

  70. Jane doe says:

    So, its remains unclear whether there will be a rebuttal, because to be honest, reading the comments here, that remains unclear.

    Did the judge simply table the issue until they prosecution can guarantee the witness will appear?

    That’s a fair response if so.

  71. trina cosbie says:

    I am so aggravated right now!! I hope the Professor puts up a blog soon, so we can have a little more clarity on what the flip happened. I mean I’m sitting here at my kitchen table in complete silence, trying to wrap my head around wtf just happened!! I don’t want to say the fix is in & all that other ish, but what I will say admittingly is that I’m not so sure the state did their jobs effectively. I think they missed huge opportunities to drive home factual & circumstantial evidence with this jury. I believe the state was prepared for their rebuttal, but JN stomped all over that without any merit. Mantei argument was factual, but JN reasoning was not. At this point all we can do is pray the state comes with a kick ass closing & “God’s plan” will have Zimmerman doing 20 to life….

    • cielo62 says:

      trina~ there are still THREE MORE HOURS FOR CLOSING TOMORROW. That will be plenty of time to drive all the KEY points home.


    • groans says:

      I agree that a kick ass closing is crucial. I expected to feel more confident than I do. But I’d guess that the defense might feel the same way. There’s just no telling what a jury will do.

  72. Tzar says:

    I want to know what happened to
    1. Jeremy
    2. GPS data for Trayvon
    3. GPS data for Zimmerman

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I do, too, Tzar.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      And I want to know what happened to the fiber analysis that FDLE requested. And what Fogen’s text and email messages were. And Wolfinger’s real relationship to these miserable grifters.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You want ping logs? I think Sundance Cracker has ’em. :}

    • Thrace says:

      We’ll have answers to some still unanswered questions when the judge releases the bench conferences & other sealed hearings to the media. I don’t know exactly when that will be.

  73. concernedczen says:

    1. These prosecutors clearly have not tried to the best of their ability to win this case.

    2. Judge Nelson has made some awfully strange decisions in support of the defense throughout.

    — Disqualifying juror who was grandmother raising 3 sons.

    — Disallowing PT from dismissing 2 white women jurors.

    — Disallowing voice experts.

    — Allowing multiple witnesses to testify to GZ’s character without allowing evd of his bad character from the prosecution.

    — Allowing improper witnesses like fake expert Dennis Root.


    The fix seems to be in.

    Give them a trial to quiet the angry masses…but don’t really try to convict the killer too hard and of course give SPD a pass.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I guess people are realizing I’m not smoking pot after all.. I’ve been saying Sanford is a first class racist county that cares nothing about blacks. Did you see the Martin’s walk out? What in the hell was Trayvon’s father doing in this county of racist named Sanford. I have a problem with that. Bigots all over and hangings not too far. They cover each other and the prosecutors played games.

      They had no intention of charging GZ until Al Sharpton and all nationalities rose up and cried out for justice. Florida is a sick state loaded with racist. Where are all of these stars.. The money chain told them to be quiet.. When money controls you and not justice something is wrong with this country.

      GZ should have done this crap in China… Remember the bad dog food. They got rid of those two CEO quickly over a dog… The dog got more respect than Trayvon Martin…

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think Trayvon’s family were chosen to bring this ugliness in central FL to the light . . . history in the making.

        Hoodies up!

  74. J4TMinATL says:

    Turn here http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

    Anyone here MOM in background?

  75. My Forehead Tho says:

    Anybody think the defense will argue the possible scenario that Fogen approached Trayvon and bumped/pushed him and that Trayvon’s reaction force was in great disproportions to Fogen’s, and thus causing Fogen to fear for his life?

    Both West and O’Mara presented this possible scenario in front of the jury multiple times; West when talking to Carter about imperfect self defence; and O’Mara when talking to Root.

    Clearly this theory is in response to Rachel’s testimony that she heard Fogen say, “What are you doing around here” , heard somebody push or bump Trayvon, and then heard Trayvon say, “Get off, get off”.

    • whonoze says:

      I doubt the defense will go there. I’d guess they floated some parts of that as a trial balloon in case they needed a fall-back. But they have so much into there ‘George was a helpless wussie who got sucker-punched by the thug’ narrative, I think they’ll stay all in on that.
      Unless, of course, BDLR makes them shake in their boots with his closing…

    • cielo62 says:

      My Forehead~ If the kid is SMALLER than you, then NO, it is NOT a “reasonable fear”. And THAT is threshold for justification.


  76. groans says:

    DANG YOU, MOM!! I’ll be traveling all day Friday!

    Actually, I guess that’s OK. I can protect my blood pressure by not having to listen “live” to the defense misrepresenting the evidence and throwing in factoids not in evidence. I can take off with the State’s closing ringing in my head, and listen to the nonsense later!

    Unfortunately, I have to go to a nephew’s funeral. Thirty-four year old “kid” died unexpectedly, leaving behind a wife and two little ones. 😥

  77. Sophia33 says:

    Is manslaughter still in?

  78. colin black says:

    Thrace says:

    July 10, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    I think Mantei. State always has last word. So they’ll split their 3 hours between Mantei & Bernie. Mantei-Omara-Bernie. I’m assuming MOM is doing defense closing since West did opening.


    colin black says:

    July 10, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    No Mantei

    Is bringing it home Bernie said he is ..Mantei …Doing the closeing.

    I cant see them shareing the closeing

    Mantei Opened Bernies the work horse

    Manteis the show Pony he opened he closes thus the finger have wrote moves on

    Closeing the LOOP.

    K I S S…

    Think how you Gals think of Mantei can you imagine seeing him listening to him

    Up close an personel thease past couple of weeks

  79. Thrace says:

    HLN- Bernie goes first then defense and John Guy will do the last close. So Mantei is only handling the legal issues for jury instruction.

  80. Tzar says:

    Who closes last?

  81. pork que says:

    Which one of the Killer’s lawyers will beg the Court to eliminate the manslaughter charges/instructions?

    You know it’s coming — the killer’s stench is evidenced from 3000 miles away.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Even people I know that WANT him convicted didn’t pick up BASIC FACTS about the case like how the hell Martin ended up dead 30 or more feet from the T where it supposedly started. They mentioned that NOT ONCE So why.the hell would they wait until closing arguments to tie it together? Never does a jury wait until closing to form an opinion. This is bullshit. Im tempted to.skip closing arguments because they probably will still fail to tie it all together.

  82. DruDo says:

    I missed all afternoon and it seems I should be glad I did. I gather there were no sanctions against defense? Has the defense finally shut up and rested their case? Did they have the homeless guy who lives under a bridge testifying it was CAC’s voice? What a circus.

  83. Sophia33 says:

    WHAT?! Donnelly was allowed to skate?!

    I just got back. Figures. Now if someone from the Martin family had done this, it would be a mess.

    • Thrace says:

      I wonder who the judge is investigating on her own? Would Taaffe be violating the order by running his mouth on TV? I know he was on the witness list.

      • pork que says:

        I would bet the Court is investigating Robert ZImmerman for violating the sequestration rule.

        • type1juve says:

          Why investigate if you’re not going to do anything about it? Obviously rules mean nothing when it comes to the Zimmerman’s.

        • Malisha says:

          Nah …
          The feds want DONE WITH THIS.
          The FDLE wants DONE WITH THIS.
          Nobody wants to investigate any of the co-murderers or any of the murderer-support-team members. They all want this OVER.

      • ay2z says:

        Did I get it right, the bench conference turned into ‘recess, KokoP was put on hold.

        So why the recess rather than a conference in court with the jury out?

        Was there an in camera conference in chambers?

        • Thrace says:

          They just called a recess for the lawyers to find case law to present. Then JN denied the prosecution questioning him anymore about the website. After than Mantei withdrew calling David Lee & if MOM’s press conference is to be believe there will be no ATF agent tomorrow. It’s over except for closings.

  84. Malisha says:

    I hope the State has a Broadway fight choreographer for rebuttals. They can convincingly show that Fogen’s version of events was physically and physiologically impossible.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Yes, they can……and it will be the last thing the jury hears!

      • Thrace says:

        I recently watched a murder case (husband kills wife) and was thoroughly confused with the evidence. Then when the Lady Prosecutor did the closing it all fell in piece, it was amazing. Sadly there was one asshole on the jury who refused to convict on circumstancial evidence – so it was hung 11G 1NG. Retrial is next year. So there is some weight to a good closing.

  85. degraveegmailcom says:

    Omara is giving a presser right now.The mike is still open.
    Overheard it.

  86. J4TMinATL says:

    No, I won’t be afraid. NOPE. JUSTICE4TRAYVON

    • Xena says:

      @J4T. I agree. The Creator has not given us a spirit of fear.

      Justice for Trayvon.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        I choose hope.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        God’s Plan will put Fogen away where he belongs. If it doesn’t, then Fogen will attract other karma he deserves.

        Peace be still and hoodies up!

        See ya’ll tomorrow!

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides. That’s the right attitude!! I think that until the verdict is in, I’m going to manage my own blog and stay away from others because hope is eternal. The lack of hope and negativity is not anything I will give life to.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ I think I’ll join you over on BlackButterfly7. The trolls and assholes have taken over this blog.


      • Eric says:

        Xena, I think you’re great, but you are being delusional. It was decided awhile ago, that they can hunt us down and execute us for whatever reason they conjure up and its okay. There will be no justice for Trayvon, or any other black person in this country.

        • Xena says:

          @Eric. People have sacrificed their lives so that all men can be free. I will not allow their lives to be in vain and shall continue to hold on to hope and faith. It’s not defined by any man.

        • Malisha says:

          Eric, I agree with you about no justice. But I still think Fogen is going to be convicted. I’m no psychic though …

        • cielo62 says:

          Eric~ So give me your address. Let’s start with you, since you’re so convinced it’s true. Stupid troll.


      • cielo62 says:

        Xena~ EXACTLY! The goal is in sight. The real evidence has already been presented. Hoodies Up!


    • elle says:

      Hoodies up. J4TM.

    • Sleuth says:

      Amen, and so it is.

      ……but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind”.
      ~ 2 Timothy 1:7



      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        Hoodies up.

        We have to be strong for Trayvon and see this through to the end and the days, weeks, months and years after.
        We just have to.

        Let us all walk together arm in arm and keep hope in our heart.

        We cannot let them pick us off with despair one by one. Let us stay together with strength and hope in our hearts so that not one of us will ever walk alone!

        The darkness out there would love to turn us around.

        I say, “Ain’t nobody gonna turn us around.”!!!!!!

  87. KittySP says:

    Whose up with closing first?

    • Thrace says:

      I think Mantei. State always has last word. So they’ll split their 3 hours between Mantei & Bernie. Mantei-Omara-Bernie. I’m assuming MOM is doing defense closing since West did opening.

      • colin black says:

        No Mantei

        Is bringing it home Bernie said he is ..Mantei …Doing the closeing.

        I cant see them shareing the closeing

        Mantei Opened Bernies the work horse

        Manteis the show Pony he opened he closes thus the finger have wrote moves on

        Closeing the LOOP.

        K I S S…

        Think how you Gals think of Mantei can you imagine seeing him listening to him

        Up close an personel thease past couple of weeks?

        • LeaNder says:

          Manteis the show Pony he opened he closes thus the finger have wrote moves on

          Not sure if I understand. But Guy opened.

          If I get the issues and witnesses the dealt with correctly. I think the ideal scenario would be Bernie starting and Guy closing. And I don’t say that in disrespect to Mantei, he was very good on the video issue.

          From what I have seen BDLR is good in bringing in emotions and Guy is pretty good in keeping it simple focusing the jury on the most relevant parts of the story. It also feels that the defense fears Guy more than Mantei.

    • colin black says:

      State defence an State closes again

      State gets first an last words always.

    • Xena says:

      Defense presents its closing argument first. Prosecutors get the last word.

  88. I am speechless. I thought the prosecution would come back with a good rebuttal to all the lies. This is all so not right. 😦

  89. Sleuth says:

    Is O’Dirty getting ready to have a press conference?

  90. Michael Stewart says:

    BDLR told JN that Mantei will be representing the state’s case at closing.

  91. Sabrina B. says:

    Up to the jury now. Hope it is enough.

  92. Romaine says:

    take out the first if used

  93. Thrace says:

    I’m confused is Mantei still going to get a hold of the ATF agent to testify? Or did that go poof too?

    • Marsha says:

      It’s still a possibility I think. I understood her to say she would not entertain further arguments unless prosecution confirmed that the ATF agent was able to appear. Someone correct me if I misheard.

      • Unabogie says:

        That would be grossly unfair if the state couldn’t even put on their rebuttal. I’ve never seen such a thing before.

        • LeaNder says:

          It’s not unfair, they had nothing much to offer or prepared.

          I am really disappointed. There would have been a couple issues it feels.

          • Malisha says:

            There were two (2) big issues for rebuttal.

            First, was Fogen a trained MMA fighter/submission hold grappler or a weak little girly-man afraid of his own shadow and of a temperament never to confront a young teen-aged drugged-up thug? Or not?

            Second, since so many people in that crime-ridden victimized Black-kid-dominated neighborhood knew his voice and knew exactly how he would sound when he screamed for his life in mortal terror, who in that neighborhood knew about his patrols, his chasing down Black kids, his aggression or submission habits, etc.?

          • LeaNder says:

            There is evidence in the discovery that Fogen patrolled the neighborhood with his dog. The problem may have been that some said he patrolled it by car some said with the lights out others said with lights on. So they effectively erase one another’s statements.

            What I didn’t understand at all is his call back to police during his last call on 2/2/2012 were he corrected the location to Taaffe’s house. Jonathan Mead the guy answering must have met with him. They is no way Fogen could have observed the guy looking into Taaffe’s house without first moving there. Originally he reported he different location. I have no idea why they left this out. Maybe since they noticed during the depositions that all these guys would give Fogen a favorable testimony?

            I have to admit I am very, very disappointed. Nothing that we did not already know and hardly anything new. I have to admit that I am wondering about the type of political pressure defense used in their writ and quite a few of their arguments.

            It feels to me the guy will walk.

          • LeaNder says:

            There is evidence in the discovery that Fogen patrolled the neighborhood with his dog. The problem may have been that some said he patrolled it by car some said with the lights out others said with lights on. So they effectively erase one another’s statements.

            What I didn’t understand at all is his call back to police during his last call on 2/2/2012 were he corrected the location to Taaffe’s house. Jonathan Mead the guy answering must have met with him. They is no way Fogen could have observed the guy looking into Taaffe’s house without first moving there. Originally he reported he different location. I have no idea why they left this out. Maybe since they noticed during the depositions that all these guys would give Fogen a favorable testimony?

            I have to admit I am very, very disappointed. Nothing that we did not already know and hardly anything new. I have to admit that I am wondering about the type of political pressure defense used in their writ and quite a few of their arguments.

            It feels to me the guy will walk.

    • colin black says:

      yup poofed away as a prior bad act an distance in time 2005 so 8 years ago. an it was pled down mimmilised an in the end up J Nelson threw them a couple of scraps

      didn’t sound like the kind of rebuttal I was expecting

      blazeing guns not blazeing saddles?

    • LeaNder says:

      No it’s over. No rebuttal from the state, only closing arguments starting tomorrow afternoon with the state it seems.

      Tomorrow morning it will be all about jury instructions.

      I kept my expectations really low concerning big revelations, but admittedly I would have expected slightly more from the state’s case.

      What’ya think?

      • Sophia33 says:

        I’m disappointed with the state. They had a couple of good days, but not enough in my opinion. It’s out of our hands. We will see.

      • Malisha says:

        Bernie gets the award in July of this year to make up for his public black eye, which all of FDLE knew was going to happen when he mishandled this case. STILL I believe Fogen will be convicted. The mishandling is business-as-usual corruption. It is used to convict innocent people when the State wishes it, and to make show-trials when the State needs it, and etc. Our courts are the downfall of this country. They safeguard only themselves and the various state and federal agencies who need protekzion from “too much public information” about what is being done in our now smoke-free rooms.

        • chills101 says:

          @ Malisha, U are one of 4 thatcalls a spade a spade… Smfh………… Un fucking believable

        • LeaNder says:

          I wish I were as optimist as you are, Malisha. But yes I am slightly wondering about prosecution. They occasionally surrendered too easily e.g. the not existant car lights in front of the club house.

          What I am really fearing is that their repetition of family and friends hammering in that yes, it was George who screamed “for his life” may in fact work. They effectively presented a helpful neighbor. So mousie Bertalan knew that one of the people lived in the community? Did she effectively plant the suspicion in the jury’s minds that after all the second guy could well have been Trayvon?

          Did you notice the black neighbor who stated that she met a couple and some others on the scene that were discussing the event. What about influencing each other? I have not the slightest idea why prosecution did not question her more in this context. Since police did not prevent that? They also let the idea sink into the jury’s minds that not even this lady knew the correct street name. She kept talking about Retreat View Circle all the time, to the point of confusion about the car’s location.

          Let’s see, I could understand if Sybrina and Tracy felt really depressed at this time.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            you are seeing through the defense’s plays. credit the jury with having the ability to do so as well. they can’t all be imbeciles.

            what would the prosecution get out of attacking a witness to sick to get out of her bathrobe and bed to testify? what they can do is bring up the possibilities you mentioned at closing, if they even think she is worth mentioning. i’m pretty sure all the voice ID witnesses for the defense were not that helpful — truly, would you believe them ALL if you were on the jury? prosecution can lump them all as friends and family who have a natural bias, jurors can understand that. it was wise for the prosecution to NOT put on a bunch of witnesses to do the same because i doubt these witnesses give the jury anything of value on that front.

            anyway, today and toorrow, we shall see what the prosecution’s full hand is. i see it like poker — we have gotten through rounds of betting, now it’s time to put their cards on the table.

          • LeaNder says:

            Thanks, fauxy, good comment. I would like to see defense’s versus prosecution’s time line. Was the clubhouse video introduced by the way? I don’t remember.

            I shouldn’t respond via the notification button, sometimes it doubles the comment sometimes it doesn’t.

            Hoping you are well.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            clubhouse videos introduced into evidence, leander. i expect we’ll see an explanation.

            i’m as well as possible and hope the same for you.

  94. Nef05 says:

    My Sweetie is doing the closing. Back off Ladies! :_D

  95. J4TMinATL says:

    West says in background that’s not enough time so West is requesting more time. JN wants lawyers to arrive at 9AM for hearings. Jury will arrive tomorrow at 1:00 PM to hear closing arguments begin.

  96. disappointed says:

    give an inch they will take a mile.

  97. parrot says:

    Did BDLR just say Mantei is closing?

  98. Romaine says:

    ? can they use as a closing re-enactment video CAC demonstrating how he executed the shot with the lie detector guy, or would that video be inadmissible? I think it would give a better understanding of what cac said to rebut the animated vid if used if the defense uses the video

  99. Sleuth says:

    Jury come in at 1:00 p.m.?

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      To tell you the truth after JN’s ruling on the Connelly and the others, why don’t they just ask they jury to give their verdict now instead of going through the motions of pretending that they’re trying to decide. The gig is up and the game is rigged.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Please tell me it ain’t so.

        • Sleuth says:

          ~ YAHTC

          It ain’t so. 🙂

          It’s not over until God says it’s over. JN knows she has to answer to somebody much bigger, and much greater.

          Don’t give up now, we’ve come too far on this journey seeking justice for Trayvon. Keep the faith. And I’m going to tell you like I’ve told others, put that hoodie up!

      • Sleuth says:

        ~ GrannyStandingforTruth

        Now, you of all people should know who’s REALLY in charge of that courtroom. Yes, JN on the physical, yes. But from the spiritual, GOD is always in charge. With God, ALL things are possible.

        Keep the faith, and keep that hoodie up!

        • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

          Sleuth, I’m upset with the ruling regarding Connelly and other state rebuttal witnesses. The judge’s ruling has vexed my spirit. I see too many double standards in this trial.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Yes. Hearings began at 8:30am with no jury. At 1:00pm jury will arrive for closing arguments.

      • Sleuth says:

        ~ J4TMinATL

        Thank you for posting tomorrow’s schedule.

        And while I’m stopping by, just want to thank so much for re-posting LLMPapa’s farewell video. You must have been reading my mind. Oh, how I needed to view it before deliberations.

  100. looolooo says:


  101. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Good-bye JN you and GZ should have tea. You both are cowards…. Judge worried about her career and GZ wants to be a cop by chasing and killing children. DO LUNCH!!!

  102. disappointed says:

    imo manslaughter will stay on the table. the judge has said 2 times the state has proved circumstantial and direct evidence therefore this will be a non-issue. i am not an attorney but i cannot see why it would not stay.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Really? She allowed TM’s weed, struck.the voice experts and had NO INTENTION of striking Donnelly which is why she bullshitted around the other day and allowed the Defense.to waste time so she couldn’t hear it sooner. As I said what the hell would be the point of striking him now since jurors only remember his testimony not his name? I correctly told her to fuck off yesterday and was attacked by some rabid hood rat and now today people see what I meant. Smmfh

      • Unabogie says:

        I gotta agree with you today. I’m sort of stunned at this. It seems as though the state was precluded from answering direct claims from the defense about meek little George. And we all know the truth about him, yet the jury can’t know?

        I read somewhere that fully 50% of all defendants with prior bad acts see those acts aired at future trials. Zimmerman managed to have nothing but cover for all of his violent history.

        Yep, fuck off Judge Nelson.

      • cielo62 says:

        tasha~ before you throw your usual bullshit around, get your facts STRAIGHT. Trayvon’s weed usage was NOT allowed. It has been consistently denied, as have been his phone and texts. Donnelly was such an ass kissing weasel that his testimony really meant nothing.  The MAIN pieces of evidence have already been presented; the autopsy report, the medical examiner’s report and the 911 call with the scream on it. The jury has already decided. This last part, unless it’s REALLY REALLY AMAZING will have little impact on what they have already seen and heard. Just a word of advice: DOUBLE YOUR MEDS!


        • chills101 says:

          What’s your deal with tasha? She have the right to feel however she want. To me she have the right to do what fuck she want ndats on u……..Most of yall feel sorry for the Martins but in reality yall dont give a fuck… This is sum bullshit n yall kno it …… Just remember colored folks… It could b us next…..

  103. smokeegyrl says:

    I can’t watch no more… I even shut my recorder off… this is some crazy stuff going on… THIS IS SO WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS…

  104. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Judge Nelson you are so weak…that is why they disrespect you.. They see something in you…. weakness not back-bone…

    • Sleuth says:

      I understand how you might be feeling right now, but just remember, JN will always have the final say in this trial.

      Regardless how things are appearing right now, just keep the faith, and believe, justice for Trayvon will prevail.

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        I have no faith. No tie up, no rebuttal, bullet casing not mentioned once and nobody realised that fuckers nostrils were not bleeding? They can go to hell. it’s not that jurors dont want to convict THEY CANNOT BASED ON THIS BULLSHIT.

        • looolooo says:

          You’re right Tasha. NO ONE on the prosecution side nor any of their medical professionals mentioned or even noticed that the tip of his nose was bleeding, and NOT bleeding from the nostrils.

          I also can’t believe that the state didn’t bring in re-enactment stunt professionals to demonstrate how ridiculous and impossible fogen’s numerous accounts of Trayvon’s MURDER are!

          Mr. Guy and the dummy wasn’t cuttin’ it (even though I would’ve given anything to be in that dummy’s place). And why didn’t the state bring in more witnesses who know what Trayvon’s screaming sounds like?

          Why didn’t they bring in that middle eastern gentleman that fogen racially bullied at CarMax? He could definitely attest to fogen’s successful abilities to fool others into believing his satanic bullsh!t. WTF!!!

          Mantei’s closing had better be the closing to beat ALL other closings!!!

          I PRAY, PRAY, PRAY JN Will allow that ATF agent to testify.

        • Sleuth says:

          I agree, there are a few things the State could have done better, but my faith was NEVER in them.

          My faith has always been in The One who holds all the facts, the DNA, fingerprints, autopsies, witnesses, and expert testimony, and yes, even the jury.

          Yes, there were many lies being told, and for the most part, the liars think they will get away, unscathed; THEY WON’T. God hates: “a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,…” (Proverbs 6:17).

          I think the State, with the spirit of Trayvon beside them, did a good job exposing the liars.

          Tasha, there has NEVER been any doubt in my mind about your faithfulness, passion, and commitment to seeking justice for Trayvon. I’m very glad to have you here with us in this fight for justice.

          I know it seems hard at this moment, but please, don’t give up now. As this case comes to a close, we’re all nervous, on edge, and “queasy with butterflies in our stomachs”.

          It’s been a long, treacherous journey, and we’re almost there. Just keep the faith, even if it’s no more than that of a mustard seed.

          I know you can do it because you’ve demonstrated it through your insights you’ve shared with us.

          God shall not be mocked. Hang in there with us Tasha.

          Be blessed my friend. 🙂

          P.S. Put your chin and that Hoodie up!

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            Thank you, Sleuth. I talk tough but I’m crying and praying for justice for the kid. I’ll stick around no matter the outcome. 🙂

          • Sleuth says:

            ~ Tasha

            See, God does answer prayer. He called you, just like he called each of us. And you, my friend, answered the call. What’s going on in that courtroom is bigger than any of us, bigger than all the players involved, even JN.

            I am so glad you’re gonna hang around. As far as that “tough talk” goes, some of us, such as myself, needed to hear what you were saying. More than that, you have a right to be heard like the rest of us, even if we don’t always agree.

            Just know that “God has seen your tears, and heard your prayers”. Trust him to heal whatever needs to be healed in this case. Stay faithful, keep the faith.

            Most importantly, thank you for being you.

            Hoodies Up!

        • Malisha says:

          They can.
          Fogen’s injuries don’t matter; so his nostrils don’t matter.
          There was killing, regardless of the position of the casing.
          There was depravity and ill will, regardless of how many friends bought him clothes and food.
          And there was no showing of self-defense.
          It is easy to convict. Even if it makes the Viet Vet cry into his chicken soup.

        • cielo62 says:

          tasha~ go away. Just shut your filthy negative pie hole and GO AWAY!


      • cielo62 says:

        Sleuth~ Finally. I\A voice of reason. The JURY will have the final say. And they’ve SEEN the forensic evidence, the autopsy photos, heard the scream and realized that gz ALWAYS called in about black males. I think they have already made up their minds and it WON’T be good news for gz.


      • chills101 says:

        Keep the faith? Really u can’t smell the bullshit?

  105. colin black says:

    So wait, is the state precluded from putting on any rebuttal at all? Are we done?



    Both there rebuttal witneses the L E officer alchco office ruled prior bad act.

    Not releveant cant use him

    An another guy flechman also rules inadmisssable both rebuttals goe hence no rebuttal from State?

    • Tzar says:

      Fleischman has not been decided on yet

    • Boyd says:

      unless Flischman shows up, that’s it. the fix was in by the State. Bernie, Mantei, Corey, and Guy were pawns.

      I think JN was told to help Zimmerman , the State wants to keep their right to stalk and kill. Once they let Fogen be presented as some goody goody two shoes, that was it.

      • Nef05 says:

        No. I believe you underestimate. It’s remotely possible that that selling (taking) of children from their parents during slave times is “forgotten”? It is indisputable they will never let it happen again.

        Can you think of a more worthy cause than the murder of our CHILDREN? Can you think of anything that would make you more angry?

      • J4TMinATL says:

        In MOM’s presser he stated that Arthur Fleischmann is not available tomorrow. Mantai wasn’t sure if he would be available. I guess we will not be hearing from him.

    • sadlyyes says:

      WTF!! that is so ffffed up

    • Boyd says:

      He can testify without being asked or speak of an arrest
      I would think.

  106. willisnewton says:

    What is the consensus opinion as to whether David Lee is to testify or not as rebuttal witness? It seems he is either the witness who is to “tie it all together” or else he was only goin gto speak to GZ’s attack on an undercover ATF guy.

    I am unclear on whether he is still going to testify or not and wanted to hear from others what they feel they heard regarding this.

  107. Boyd says:

    How did any witnesses other than the victim family even GET IN THE COURTROOM? like check the names on a list? Hello!

    Florida wants to keep their SYG , kill at will way of life.

  108. disappointed says:

    10/20 life? wow on manslaughter

    • type1juve says:

      I think the defense is trying to get manslaughter taken off the table.

    • Dennis says:

      If the charge is a felony, he will still be doing at least 20-25 years because of the 10-20-Life law. It really doesn’t matter what they give him, M2, Manslaughter, etc.. M2 is desirable since the maximum sentence is life in prison. Since he has shown no remorse for his actions, they will give him the maximum sentence.

  109. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Well the Martin’s wanted a trial and they got it. no justice….

    This judge is bought just like the entire prosecution team.. Bernie is a complete joke and needs to sit down.. They had no intentions of seeking real justice for the victim only for GZ and corrupt SPD…

    Martin Family sue every last one of them… for the death of your child… Im ranting.. got to go….

    • Boyd says:

      I don’t think Bernie, Corey, and the other lawyers were in on it.
      They were burned.

      JN was. no wonder she put up with West/MOM sheet.

      • anita says:

        Thats my take too. the prosecutors weren’t in on it. Florida has to keep that fucking law untouched. ~Boyd

        • cielo62 says:

          anita boyd~ I believe you’re BOTH wrong. Florida CANNOT AFFORD to have this kind of reputation. gz is small potatoes. Their precious SYG has NOT been touched. It’s not over til the fat lady sings, and JN IS that fat lady.


      • type1juve says:

        I agree!

      • Soulsistawoo says:

        If they are in that courtroom under the disguise of prosecuting the killer of Trayvon Benjamin Martin for having his life prematurely ended… then their ONLY… ONE AND ONLY CLIENT is TRAYVON BENJAMIN MARTIN… But instead, they only went through the motions of prosecuting… Allowing OBVIOUS missed opportunities… Not act just as foolish as the defense, who seem to have a free reign in the court room… playing politics with the FBI, the SPD and the voting public ANGELA COREY…. No one except Sybrina Fulton was willing to go all the way for Trayvon… and this breaks my heart .

        I said I would reserve my opinion, but do not think a guilty or not guilty verdict will make a difference in how I see what went down in Sanford, FL 2013.

        Prosecutor in Emmitt Till’s murder trial… Gerald Weissinger Chatham
        Prosecutor for Trayvon Martin – Bernie De La Rionda

        Good night…

        • Remember how biaz acted a fool in court? The lies with ZERO intention of ever bringing any supporting evidence? Personally I was outraged when I had to watch that circus, but I also felt 100% positive the state proved it’s case beyond ANY doubt on earth. I was not positive that she actually killed Caylee herself until the trial.
          The jurors who did make a peep did believe she was guilty but for whatever happened they didn’t vote guilty. Who knows they could’ve had a fight in there and we’ll never know because it’s forever secret.

          I think the state proved its case beyond any doubt on earth;
          BUT with the help and full cooperation of gz himself tho! He did kill Trayvon, and with his own words on taped showed how. He lied about the things he knew implicated him bc he’s obviously tryig to get away with a murder! That is explained to the jury in detail with his SD class! All of this has been made clear I think.

          So even though I’m really nervous with that same yucky feeling you have, MOST people are NOT idiots, and they don’t have to be a genius to see though that bogus cartoon of a defense!

          I just thought of something, from watching NG. what if the state and judge already have an idea that the jury is done, that they have already rejected the defenses totally implausible *17 yo crafty gansta* story? So instead of dragging this out like the defense wants, they wrap it up now. The closing will be very real I think, just like the opening!

      • Cercando Luce says:

        If Z walks, Bernie is going to look damn foolish accepting his Top Prosecutor award later this month. And the prosecutors’ association will look like fools as well.

      • Malisha says:

        Boyd, I see it another way. And mind you, I normally hate the judge, that’s my instinct. I see this as Bernie doing service as the slave of the SPD and the FDLE in its cloying whorish suckupitude to the SPD, while Mantei and Guy were doing little segments of really great prosecutorial work to thrill and possibly placate segments of the population. An elaborate charade, and one whose main purpose was to free the SPD from its burden of the federal investigation.

        I still believe Fogen will be convicted. He’s nothing in this big puzzle; he’s stupid and useless and utterly disrespected by everyone and deservedly so and nobody gives a damn what happens to him except his racist cheering section and a midwestern defense lawyer who seems sexually mesmerized by his eunuch-like physique. I also believe that after he is convicted he will be “swept away” out of prison somehow and if necessary, a giant fraud will be perpetrated by the State of Florida bureau of prisons to get him out and send him somewhere where they don’t have to spend their money keeping him from being murdered inside the walls. I’ve seen that happen with federal prisoners: they get shifted from one prison to another and eventually sent to a prison with special functions (like a prison for disabled prisoners or mentally ill prisoners) and then their records vanish and they’re gone.

    • mrsdoubtfire says:

      I think its really unfair to suggest Judge Nelson is bought. One unpopular decision out of literally hundreds of judgements pre trial and during trial does not make her a bad judge. The prosecution was led by BDLR. That’s where the buck stops and with Corey. Sandford PD were to be protected at all costs while O’Mara turned Serino and Singelton into defense witnesses. What a friggin sham performance particularly after Guy’s powerul and gut wrenching OS. This Jury were left to work out the State’s theory and case for themselves.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree. This trial ain’t bought and it ain’t over yet.

      • cielo62 says:

        MrsDoubtFire~ There is still the 3 hour Closing for the Prosecution. If they DOn’T connect the dots THEN, then I will agree with you. But NOT before.


    • cielo62 says:



  110. My Forehead Tho says:

    This is why the Defense disrespects her and the court room.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      What do you mean?

      • Malisha says:

        They didn’t HAVE TO respect her. So they didn’t.

        Just as Fogen had a free card for killing, these scumbags have a free card for contempt.

    • Valerie says:

      Exactly… Omara and West have totally disrespected her, continuously.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        So now we all hate JN and agree to the notion, “no wonder the defense laughs at her, because she is a joke?”

        • Malisha says:

          She’s not a joke. She ran her courtroom better than any other judge could have run it. But in containing a complete outrage, to keep it within the bounds of something resembling a proper trial, she still couldn’t either prevent the defense from trying to cause a mistrial at every step NOR could she force the prosecution to behave as if they had a Black man on trial for committing a crime that the State really didn’t want to overlook.

  111. So, will it be rebuttal tomorrow? Who the state will bring in?

  112. disappointed says:

    fire arm involving death

  113. J4TMinATL says:

    Get ready guys, JN is reading jury instructions.

    MOM is planning on getting JN to remove manslaughter charge instructions.

    Just be aware!

    • J4TMinATL says:

      And aggravated assault is now in. Discharge of a fireman causing death is now in.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        So, will all of them be kneeling and kissing gz’s ring too?

        • cielo62 says:

          Those were ALWAYS in. They are ALL the “included lesser charges” that Professor Leatherman wrote about. This is NOT new nor should it be surprising. I doubt JN will remove ANYTHING from the table because JN has already stated that the prosecution has presented enough circumstantial and other evidence. It will be ALL available to the jury; Murder 2 all the way down to littering.


      • Two sides to a story says:

        Any lesser charge will put him away for a long time in FL. I don’t think Fogen’s going anywhere any time soon.

    • Dave says:

      That’s cool. Florida’s sentencing laws are written so that apparently you can get more time for aggravated battery with a firearm than you would for manslaughter. Then there’s the enhancement for crimes a gainst a person under the age of 18. It’s complicated but if he’s convicted of anything he’s looking at a long time behind bars.

    • cielo62 says:

      J4TM~ What does that mean? IF they remove manslaughter charges, which I don’t think JN will do (but now, who knows?) that leaves ONLY Murder 2 and assault with a deadly weapon. I don’t think the jury will buy that.


  114. chi1224 says:

    This is so wrong, I can’t watch this anymore today. FU Judge Nelson. ****

  115. colin black says:

    Oh theres more Jury Instructions betcha this is drawn out by defence.

    Shes includeing foggagge as if he is a fat kid at a party that no ones talking to…

  116. Unabogie says:

    So wait, is the state precluded from putting on any rebuttal at all? Are we done?

  117. bellesouth says:

    Zimmerman’s eyes are really really black today. More so today than before as far as I can tell.

  118. Sleuth says:

    Oh busy body She-lie. Got their friend Timothy Tulcholski to lie on Mr. Martin. Invitws witness Donnelly to sit in “Friends and Family” section.

    As if she doesn’t have enough troubles of her own already. These people seem to court trouble. The Sr. was barely able to talk while on the witness stand, as if he might be dealing with a current health issue.

    They really haven’t figured it out yet.

    • truthseeker66 says:

      SZ will skate perjury charge. I am not a troll but I have a bad feeling about fogen skating as well.

      • Sleuth says:

        Then I’ll be glad to introduce you to my GOD, and He said He hates liars and people who shed innocent blood.

    • Malisha says:

      But people like Shellie and Robert Sr. who “court trouble” do not have to pay the price for that trouble. They get off. I actually think Fogen will NOT get off this time but the rest of them? Just like Fogen always got off in the past, they will get off now. Every now and then someone will really catch Hell for what they do but in between, back to business as usual, lying, cheating and stealing, and not being reigned in at all.

  119. I cannot BELIEVE this ISH! What’s the point of having rules if they’re not enforced. Got dammit!

  120. willisnewton says:

    no sanctions re: donnolly violating rule of sequestration

  121. Unabogie says:

    Let me just remind everyone that in reality, this jury has already decided whose case they believe more. At this point, they are holding out for some bombshell, but failing that, there’s nothing either side can really do to change the verdict they’re about to render.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I mostly agree, although someone might be on the fence and closing arguments can be powerful and may tip the balance.

  122. acemayo says:

    If GZ is free or not set free
    I show and tell young black males
    If live or do business or visit someone
    In a mostly all whites area you are an suspect
    You cell phone that can take pictures
    Do not do drugs somehow the worlds thinks
    Black only do drugs
    Blacks on blacks crime is high and killing of each other
    I tell many blacks who have kids
    You have to teach the kids more than looking cute
    Or making babies

  123. On the other hand, if I’m a juror, I don’t care if George’s friends and family say it’s him. I only care slightly more that Trayvon’s family say it’s him. Wouldn’t sway me.

    Still, ruling is BS.

  124. Jun says:

    This is bull

    There should be character witnesses in on Fogen considering the defense opened the door for it, trying to claim he is a non violent wimp when that is a complete lie

    I also do not get why Lee cant testify

    he was supposed to rebut all of Omara’s nonsense

    • Thrace says:

      Mantei didn’t even bother to fight for Lee once O’Mara voiced his objection. So whatever he was going to testify to must not have been rebuttal.

  125. Woow! says:

    Calm down,Shelly will get hers in the end. She still has her own perjury hearing and the biggest slap in the face for her is the prosecution put her and the rest of the family on the witness list and did not call them. They had to watch that CAC on TV just like the rest of us.

    That is the greatest pleasure of all. They were not allowed to sit in that court room with Sybrina and Tracy.

  126. colin black says:

    That it till closeing arguments 9 am I should think 2 hrs aprox each

    An then offski for the jury

    An then back for J Nelson to unleash her fury at foggage

    Seven Women J N elson an Six Women Jurours will bring this clow down

    An Seven women deliver Justice Trayvon smiles down from Heaven

    Remember .7 women Satarday 13….7…0013.


    Tell the CONVICT TO Rise .

    • yes colin, this case is clear and simple and it doesn’t take a certain color of ppl to know exactly what this killer did on Feb.26, 2012, when he snuffed the life out of an innocent 17 yo boy, who was simply minding his own business.

      there is no evidence of any fix, there is no question as to who killed Trayvon Benjamin Martin, and there is no way anyone is going to let a child killer get away!

      This asshole, George Zimmerman will NOT GET AWAY!

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Colin. Closing arguments begin at 1:00 pm ET. There will be hearings in the morning beginning at 8:30 am ET. Jurors will not be coming to court until 1:00pm

  127. Boyd says:

    what’s the point of sequestration? The Fogen is untouchable.

    Donnelly got to see the Jurors and plan strategy.

    • Woow! says:

      Donnelly was an idiot and did not offer much to help CAC. I am sure if the jurors were not born yesterday they could see through him and the rest of the BS put forth by MOM and W.

    • Dave says:

      I agree with Woow! Donnelly’s testimony only proves that the defendant has rich friends who will lie for him. The jurors should be able to figure that out. They’ve heard his testimony anyway and will accept it or ignore it whatever they might be instructed to do. JN wants to hand the case over to the jury by Friday and doesn’t want the process stalled by relatively minor issues whatever their legal merits.

    • Malisha says:

      Fogen thought he was untouchable. But he has been touched and he probably will not escape. That’s got to hurt.

  128. pork que says:

    Shellie TOLD Donnelly witnesses (including her) were sequestered — yet — somehow Donnelly didn’t think that applied to him? WTF

    • Soulsistawoo says:

      That is what I was thinnking… How could Shelie ask Donnelly to go into the court to support George because witnesses were not allowed to view the trial… He know way back in March/May that he was a witness… How could JN sit up there and sell that load of Bullshit!

      And that includes Goode too… This asshole and Donnelly are both dirty lying racist assholes, just the Zimmerman clan kind of people… LIARS!

      • pork que says:

        Not to mention, Donnell’s wife was also a witness.

        Donnelly was quick to tell the State that he never, ever even discussed the case with her because she was a witness.

        No doubt, the Killer’s friends and family are all worthless, lowlife chickenshit asswipes

  129. BB says:

    she is giving them Fleishman, right? I think that could be a great last witness.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      No. They are going to decide if he is available. If he isn’t no need to argue it, is her thinking.

  130. mrsdoubtfire says:

    Betcha West reviewed the testimony Donnelly heard before Donnelly suddenly felt the urge to listen to the 911 call and subsequently realise his bff was indeed screaming on that tape.The defense played a blinder and gambled on JN ruling just as she has.

  131. smokeegyrl says:

    I am so angered about this ruling… and you can see the Martin’s are as well… Mantei tried so hard to get this… and you see West look back at Fogen… like he snickered… OMG.. OMG… and what they put her thru last night… She gives them this…

  132. chi1224 says:

    I am shocked an extremely disappointed in the judge. This is not right.

    • God is there says:

      The jury has been filled to the brim with vital information and facts, so give them the benefit and lets see what happens. Just because its a mostly white, or all white jury does not mean they have the same mind-set as the 3 stooges. We all knew that some times it would be in the State’s favor and sometimes for the defense, but the State is not out, NOT BY A LONGSHOT. There is a method to the madness, DON’T GIVE UP CAUSE IT AIN’T OVER!!!

  133. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Why are you people surprise? You’re viewing institutionalized racism and how it works in the justice system. Nonwhite folks have no rights. You mean to tell me that you don’t get it yet. Smh!

    • Woow! says:

      Yeah I get it that is why I have a concern with an all white jury.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Granny, I will use an expression I have learned this year to support your post (I hope I am using it correctly):

      Well !

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Granny exactly and some people called me interjecting race. this case was all about race. Not one of those prosecutors looked up once the judge gave orders. They knew they were told not to fight for justice by some heavy hitter. They allow a jury selection of GZ peers not Trayvon Martins. Can someone explain to me how in God’s name was the prosecution unable to locate one black person to sit on that jury in Sanford. Are jury people only WHITE! It was staged.

      Blacks have no rights and for them not to prepare their witnesses it was staged from the beginning. Totally ridiculous day!!! I want be wasting my time watching anymore of this crap… Closing arguments are a complete con game.

      Corey was only there to flavor the court room as if she was really concern. It is about her career status… These people need to burn in hell for their evil deeds…. Let God deal with them he is the only one can reward crooks and dirty deeds properly.

      How in God’s name were they even allowed to make that fat child murderer look like a saint. How do you exclude medical records he was running on psychotic drugs. And this doesn’t get into the jury pool.. It doesn’t matter when they selected all whites and no blacks from a town that large something is wrong…..

      They are really sending a statement to one nationality. Their is no justice.. And justice is not blind. Every person on that jury votes according to their life experiences. And coming out of Sanford you all should by now know what that verdict is… innocent when you kill a black child.

  134. FactsFirst says:

    thats some straight up BULLSHIT because the defense decided to call donnelly for a witness AFTER Pest asked him to leave the court room… I’m pissed!

  135. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Another up and down day in court

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      West should have informed the court about Donnelly’s presence and asked if Donnelly could still testify. He should have asked for approval BEFORE Donnelly testified.

      IMO West does not have self respect nor does he care if the world respects him.

      • Malisha says:

        West has the respect of every racist he ever knew and 99% of all the lawyers in Florida. Although there may be a lot of overlap in those two groups — the Venn Diagram from Hell.

  136. disappointed says:

    That is a bad ruling. he listened and realized georgie needed help. he helped.

  137. bellesouth says:

    Donnolley knew he couldn’t be there because the Zimmerman family couldn’t be there. And did not his testimony change? Yes. Oh Well. She’s careful not to muddy the waters or make a mountain out of molehill. No grounds for any reversal on her part as far as she’s concerned. Although, the state doesn’t get to appeal an acquital.

    • Aunt Bea says:

      Maybe The State/Fed is putting a conspiracy to commit murder and a murder 1 charge together. Would that be an “appeal” of sorts for the prosecution.

      Maybe the jury will see right through this charade of a prosecution. Surely they know that those bloody photos, the DNA, the reenactment and interviews are counter indicative of any of the hogwash anybody has allowed to be alluded to in testimony. A whole lot of coulda’s that really couldn’t.

      We’ll see how well the prosecution “ties it all together”….

      Doin’ my best to keep hope alive!!!!

  138. whonoze says:

    The Martin family leaves the court with their lawyer, perhaps to begin work on a wrongful death suit in which ALL the evidence against GZ will be brought forward.

    • Mary says:

      do you really think the case is that far gone? that we won’t win?

      sybrina looked fed up when she walked out.

      • type1juve says:

        I think it’s over and he’s getting off. This is so damn wrong!

      • colin black says:

        An she should be smileing an happy at the trial of a manic whom murdered her CHILD IN COLD BLOOD

        For WHY?

        Guilty not guilty a hung jury a life in prison for foggage

        She will never see her son Smile hear him laugh or pick up his dirty socks fter he taked a bath?

        I think Id look fed up at a trial concerning my sons murder.

        • Mary says:

          of course this is true, but in the past she has looked immeasurably sad. today as she left, she was definitely fed up with defense’s bag of tricks and games.

      • whonoze says:

        I don’t know. I just think an acquittal is a stronger possibility than it should have been.

        • Mary says:

          do you think that that’s because of di maio’s testimony?

          my neighbor, who is intelligent, but also very moderate in everything he says and does, told me that testimony put reasonable doubt in his mind. but he still thinks zimmerman should be put away. but he saw reasonable doubt raise its head in that testimony.

          i didn’t. not at all. but apparently middle america does.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I don’t think that keeping Donnelly;s testimony is that big a deal. Let’s see what Prof says.

        • Mary says:

          yeah, i don’t think so either.
          but i want to hear what he says about di maio…and also, read how he thinks this going.

          we’re an echo chamber here. and i’m no criminal lawyer.

    • anita says:

      I hope that scumbag has the worst life possible if he’s not convicted. The Martins’ will kick his ass in civil court. I’m going to go back on the thread & find that article about fogen still serving 25 yrs. if not convicted. Maybe that’ll cheer me up.

      • Mary says:

        if he’s not acquitted on both mansalughter and murder 2, he’ll do no time.

        but if he is found on manslaughter, he could do more time than he might under a m2 conviction, because he killed a minor.

        i think that’s very possible, although i think it definitely was second degree murder.

  139. Thrace says:

    If Donnelly hadn’t been in the courtroom and heard Jane’s 911 call and testimony I seriously doubt he would have offered up his opinion of it. No way do I believe that last Saturday was the first time he listened to it.

  140. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Well Shellie told Donnelly that she was kicked out, right? Surely she told him why she was kicked out…sequestration. Donnelly appeared to be smart enough to know that if she’s on the witness list and he’s on the witness list the same rule applies to him.

    • Malisha says:

      Shellie could have lied about anything; she’s a liar. BUT she didn’t NEED to lie with HIM because he was in the same class of racist lynch-support-team-members as she is. If you stand still in Sanford and throw a stone you will hit one of them. Hey, that’s a good idea: stand still in Sanford and throw a stone!

  141. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    This case is a dog and pony show…

  142. trina cosbie says:

    WOW……mutha’f’n bullshit!!!! Why is JN giving the defense so much f’n rope?!?!? I can’t stand this shit!!!

  143. Woow! says:

    Damn, Donnelly knew he should not have been in that court room just as John understood he should not have been talking to MOM or the video guy.

  144. type1juve says:

    So rules don’t mean shit when it comes to the Zimmerman’s!

  145. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I told you she is in the fix.. The law clearly states it must be stricken..

  146. esentrick says:

    oh wow really Judge? counsel knew about and DID NOT NOTIFY THE COURT OR STATE!

  147. Wendie Dox says:

    so.. it doesnt matter what the law is.. you can do whatever you want.
    and later just play dumb.

  148. Nef05 says:

    He was IN the courtroom!

    • Malisha says:

      But he was just in the courtroom in self-defense. He wasn’t in class that day so he didn’t know he shouldn’t be. The judge DID say there was a rule on witnesses but she said, “We don’t need you to be in the courtroom.” And he’s a decent American.

  149. Sabrina B. says:

    Wow! Not stricken!

    • uhoh says:

      I find it unlikely that Shellie never told Donelly the reason why Ma and Pa Z couldn’t be there.

      • Sabrina B. says:

        Of course it is. This was payback for her decision.

      • Malisha says:

        I’d call Donnelly as a rebuttal witness and make him admit to every bit of testimony he heard while he was in the courtroom and make him admit that he wanted to testify for Fogen because the testimony he heard from the state’s witnesses made the case look bad for Fogen. That would be a way to refresh in the jurors’ minds how bad for Fogen all the real testimony from people who WERE THERE was.

  150. OMG that man lied on testimony and Judge N let it in!!!!!!!

  151. groans says:

    Donnelly had to be there to “support” CAC, since Shellie couldn’t be??

    >> BS – CAC’s sister was there.

    As for West’s bitter remark about Shellie being excluded and then never called as a witness by the State.

    >> I’d bet money Shellie BEGGED Bernie to keep her on the witness list so she didn’t have to sit around day after day listening to defense counsel BS and pretending like she gives a flip about CAC. 😉

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Wouldn’t be surprised. I think that wedding ring and all that walking in together is a ruse. They don’t look at one another.

  152. Unabogie says:

    Damn, this is just bad. She’s letting them mock the court with this kind of garbage. They’ve really taken advantage of this judge.

  153. J4TMinATL says:

    WOW. Ridiculous. Sanctions denied. Prosecution didn’t break rule ONCE, Judge! FTSheeet

  154. Rachael says:

    That sux

  155. disappointed says:

    bull shit

  156. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    The judge isn’t going to strike it.. When she starts that rambling….

    • PerfectlyImperfect says:

      You called it but I have to say her ruling is ridiculous, because she can’t decide whether or not he changed his testimony based on what he heard while in the court room.

      • Malisha says:

        Why bother with a rule on witnesses, if the test is going to be whether they WOULD have changed their testimony had they been IN the court when the rule was in place? Why bother to have rules at all? Why not just relax the rules?

  157. chi1224 says:

    omg– FUCK THAT!

  158. Judy75201 says:

    Damn, Judge Nelson.

  159. colin black says:

    slapped wrists u comeing.

  160. disappointed says:

    very very very very

  161. BB says:

    What was Mom’s latest lie?
    Are they not going after Goode for collaborating on the video

  162. fauxmccoy says:

    4 verys. right on!

  163. chi1224 says:

    Strike that coot’s testimony already!!

  164. Woot woot tell em sweetie, laugh now West!

  165. colin black says:

    Even when shelie pre trial vire dire they never ever looked at each other.

  166. Wendie Dox says:

    not laughing now, are we?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      • J4TMinATL says:

        I’m beginning to think trolls are among us. I don’t know? Y’all have been here longer than me.

        Where is Professor? We need the boards on lock down at this time, do y’all agree?

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          We should stay on the alert and watch postings.

          This might be another night where we have to use evidence that incriminates gz to counter incorrect info.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            With closing arguments approaching, this is a sensitive time.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            Is Fred moderating new commenters and current posters? I trust that J4TM will come more than I do stealth posters using our vulnerable feelings as ammunition.

        • cielo62 says:

          J4TM~ Oh I CERTAINLY agree! Some are just whackos like EIEIO and some are marginally mentally disturbed like tashatexas. Eric is just and out and out troll. Too bad they can sure stink up the place.


  167. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:


  168. Woow! says:

    CAC sister looks like him but in drag.

  169. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Did Shellie not know that they had the support of mainstream media and their pundits, so GZ didn’t need Donnelly to sit in court and support him.

  170. Shellie Zimmerman is always up in it.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      I’m not surprise, are you? Shellie does not exactly have any integrity when it comes to GZ, which was demonstrated in the jail tapes.

  171. colin black says:


    Now M omaniac cant even ID his own wittnesssses

    This is a JOKE RIGHT America

    A huge prank your PUNKING THE WORLD ?

  172. Uh oh. She just caught MOM in a lie.

  173. Boyd says:

    I’m praying the agent shows up tomorrow, but don’t think he will.

    Praying JN strikes somebodies testimony.

    I cannot believe the prosecution tripped at the finish line a la Lolo Jones

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Even if he is available for tomorrow, she still has to rule on it.

      • looolooo says:

        Even if allowed to testify, will he go the route of other law enforcement, and simply lie and down play any wrong doing by fogen..

        Is it me, or has this trial been fixed? Why is it that the state seems to have to prove Trayvon is innocent, and not prove fogen’s guilt?

    • Sleuth says:

      I’m certainly joining you in that prayer, and also that JN will decide to let him testify.

  174. Thrace says:

    LOL, sounds like Shellie is still telling lies.

  175. Sleuth says:

    Who the hell is She-lie to be determining who gets to sit in the courtroom without first running through the attorneys/JN?

    So she decided Donnelly could sit in her stead.

  176. crazy1946 says:

    For those of you who have asked why the Ice Cream Man and Fogdoit were smiling, here is what I think is going on. A little while ago while the rest of the attorney’s were up with Judge Nelson, the blond attorney brought two stapled stacks of papers to the Fogdoit to sign, after he signed them they smiled, and he said what looked like great or something similar. I will suggest that they have already drawn up the papers to request an emergency hearing with the appeals court after the conviction. They are hoping that the Fogdoit can stay out of prison while being retried…. I hope they put him back in a cage and leave him there……

  177. fauxmccoy says:

    oh this is bullshit o’mara and judge nelson knows it.
    shellie wanted donnelly there for george’s ‘support’

  178. Woow! says:

    Dangit someone came in my office, what is JN saying about Shelly?

    • Boyd says:

      shelly has her hands all in this. The Donnelly dude, she asked him to sit in. and she was sequestered as well

  179. How can the state not be ready for rebuttal

  180. Sabrina B. says:

    Wow! “Broke the rule and did not allow Shellie to sit in on court so they decided to have another Donnolly to support fogen.

    • no that’s NOT what omar said first.. he said to support Shellie, then he changed it to gz when JN called him out on that one.
      they are dancing and JN knows. and they shouldn’t have called him if they knew he was in the room!

  181. fauxmccoy says:

    o’mara begins his tap dance routine

  182. acemayo says:

    The gym website is back up

  183. so then why did you call him if you knew he was in court? LIAR

  184. Nef05 says:

    Had buffering issues with Wild About. NBC stopped covering, of course. WFTV has competing ad sounds and interruptions by jerkface we don’t agree with.

    SO – just as an alternative, bookmark the following link. Audio is great and no buffering or interruptions. Just for another alternative, that keeps us from missing the important bits…


  185. Beverly says:

    Can’t recall the implications above about tongue in mouth, but OMs got it all….

  186. fauxmccoy says:

    are we in for another episode of night court?

  187. Woow! says:

    I am lost; had to step away. I can not tell from the comment if John Goode violated sequestration. Is JN going to go after Goode or MOM.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      No they are not going after Good, though he is mentioned. Just Donolley.

    • colin black says:

      its handbags at dawn at worst

      a slap on the wrist at best.

      Its small potattos

      I think they will get an

      S T T= Severe Talking To………

    • Dave says:

      He was subject to recall and instructed by JN not to discuss the case with anyone, including specifically the lawyers. The prosecution apparently can’t move to have his testimony stricken because he was their witness.

      • groans says:

        I thought there are other remedies besides striking testimony. Has there been any mention about that? (Maybe I’m completely wrong about there being different types of remedies….)

  188. Wendie Dox says:

    does it matter? doesnt all that matter is the fact that he sat in court when he was not allowed to do so?

  189. groans says:

    But I thought Goode wasn’t supposed to be talking to lawyers in the case, because he wasn’t “dismissed” yet. Am I’m wrong about that?

    • bettykath says:

      The fact is Good was excused. He was the fogen’s from the get-go. He the only one who saw MMA based on his “rational thinking” that one guy on top of the other be MMA and ground and pound. He heard fogen screaming based on his “rational thinking” that it would be the guy on the bottom. I really think he didn’t see much of anything and he doesn’t really have a clue about who he heard.

  190. colin black says:

    disappointed says:

    July 10, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    MOM it is not tit for tat, damn

    Yes it is with him
    he is the biggest tattle tail EVER
    Omanic o whiner

  191. chi1224 says:

    The judge seriously needs to strike Donnelly, and I think she will. I also think that is all we will get. The rest of these weasels will skate through… that’s my prediction.

  192. anita says:

    I wish they had more witnesses for rebuttal. I’m very nervous about this. Does the defense get to show the animation during closing?

    • chi1224 says:

      yes, but it can’t be considered as “evidence”, just a demo, like a prop.. it won’t be entered as an exhibit for the jury to consider like evidence during deliberation. So… it was a partial win for the state.

    • colin black says:

      no its not even entered into evidence it was reduced to a visual aid

      So NO

      An as its not evidence no they cant show it nor can jurours request it


      No court tag entry number into evidence/trial/case.

      Its deatined for the dustbin.

    • groans says:

      Rebuttal is limited to “rebutting” things that came out in the defense case. They can’t put on new evidence that they could have / should have presented in their case in chief.

      I think there were some unrealistic expectations here about all the wonderful evidence that the State was “saving” to bring in during rebuttal.

      • Malisha says:

        Truth is, I was expecting them to bring in Fogen’s past in the rebuttal, especially the violence and bullying. So yeah, I had what I guess are unrealistic expectations.

  193. disappointed says:

    MOM it is not tit for tat, damn.

  194. Sabrina B. says:

    Nonsense they never spoke, A conference is a conference.

  195. colin black says:

    mr good been bad to bad so sad now he has been had.

  196. fauxmccoy says:

    wait a minute — schumaker testified that he spoke with john good

  197. MrSykes says:

    Daaaaang another sequestration violation? Man, lol.

  198. Sabrina B. says:

    Investigating Jeremy?

  199. disappointed says:

    Seriously is West and fogen retarded? This shit is not funny. Obviously they take the court of law as a joke.

  200. chi1224 says:

    Why no sanctions on Good???? That’s bullshit!

  201. chi1224 says:

    Wouldn’t it be awesome if John Good getting involved in that cartoon could get that thrown out even as a demo? Any chance of that?

  202. BB says:

    Donnely next- hope she can exclude the witness testimony and punish West and MOM

  203. Defense is about to get spanked and Skeletor is laughing.

  204. colin black says:

    This is tom much sorry but L O L

    A a person comes to watch an decides they want to testify

    Shit DIARY73 could have got up on the stand an spoke for all of us

    If I had know this I would have flown to America to give evidence

    I knoe load an load sabout this case.

    I cant believe my ears now Ive heard every thing!

  205. chi1224 says:

    Has anyone noticed Mantei is usually the one to do the case law for the judge? He is so good at that, he has a bright career ahead of him I am certain of that!

  206. Unabogie says:

    I stepped away for a minute and all hell broke loose. What did I miss?

    • colin black says:

      Em the case is over bar the shouting jurys offski

      closeing tomorrow two hours aprox each.

      An now violations being brought up an the defence has lots L O L

      Honestly you latterly couldn’t make it up.

  207. Tzar says:

    I am disquieted by the lack of a tie up witness in rebuttal

  208. colin black says:

    How else could thet coach him

    There phones are bugged at least foggagge will insist his is.

    An N B P Snipers on every roof top

    All because he a decent Merican protecting his hood from the hoardes.

  209. fauxmccoy says:

    west … starting to lose it

  210. disappointed says:

    West is laughing? Bet he won’t if judge strikes his testimony.

  211. Sabrina B. says:

    Look at West smiling like the cat that ate the canary.

  212. groans says:

    I missed it – is the jury coming back tomorrow, or Friday?

  213. Rachael says:

    A neighbor just called to invite me to lunch with her tomorrow. She is worried because she hasn’t seen me leave my house in weeks. LOL I told her NO WAY – I mean I’d love to but closing arguments!!!!!

    I don’t think she understood. She’s not mad, she laughed at me, but she didn’t understand.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Yup me too. Texts coming from friends who think I don’t want to be friends anymore….etc. I feel you Rachael!!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ah, no fair. My family’s been mad at me a few times, but now they’re getting into it, wondering what’s going on and looking forward to the closing arguments.

    • chi1224 says:

      omg I have had the same thing happen to me! LOL Some people kinda get it and some don’t… I don’t care I know why I am here and that is all that matters!

    • My family have asked me am I sick and not telling them, Rach! Lol

    • groans says:

      No one around me quite gets it either. But they all say, “He’s guilty as hell – he’s a crazy person – how can it even be a close call?!”

      As if: Why bother following it closely – it’s a no-brainer!

    • Judy A Vallejos says:

      I think I still have a husband….

      ok I have too I have too go to town now….

      dinner dinner I have to get the rest of the stuff for dinner

      damn I don’t wanna

    • anita says:

      Some people don’t care about anything that doesn’t directly effect them. I usually see those types as very self centered.

    • breelee says:

      I hate to admit it but I can top ya. My grand daughters came back from a month and 1/2 visit with their grandma ( I’m Granny ) yesterday, and I said I’d see them after the trial. eeek! They want to come stay with me, and I know I wouldn’t get to watch. I feel guilty, but I’ve invested too much time to quit now.

  214. disappointed says:

    Remove Good’s testimony all together.

  215. disappointed says:

    WOW, met with attorneys! bad bad bad….

  216. chi1224 says:

    Fuck John Good! He is corrupt as hell!

  217. chi1224 says:

    I’m glad this coot is finally getting his beat down!

  218. disappointed says:

    Fogen is looking nervous.

  219. colin black says:

    Look they will aready know more than the gist off the facts

    Certainly more than they let on to dureing voire dire.

    An if there were any genuine unbiased non knowlagable women.

    The ones in the know will make sure they get wiyh in the flow

    Wich wont be nessesry jf there truly unbiased

    THEY have been shown ample to aquit.

    Fact he wouldn’t testify marks his guilt as does his bizaro ever changing version of events.

    Put a fork in him he is done.

  220. willisnewton says:

    Did she just tell the jury to have a good weekend???

    • Mary says:

      she always does. whether it’s just ‘have a good evening o weekend, she always does it, and in the morning expresses the hope that everyone had a good evening, etc.

      she set’s a great tone in everything she does.

    • Tzar says:

      they will be back tomorrow at 10 am

  221. Sabrina B. says:

    Weather report for February 27Th?

  222. Woow! says:

    I had to step out a bit what happened. Is CAC going to take the stand? What about Donnelly?

  223. disappointed says:

    I hope she finds they opened the door.

  224. Sophia33 says:

    Fogen now looks terrified.

  225. J4TMinATL says:

    Damn, I didn’t computer screen grab of GZ rolling his eyes and huffing at Nelson.

  226. Boyd says:

    They have no one to testify he’s aggressive. wtf happened?

    where are the RVC people who were scared?

  227. groans says:

    The proposed rebuttal doesn’t sound worth the trouble. JMO.

  228. chi1224 says:

    I would love to know what the jury is thinking. recess/recess/dismiss for day…. they are all probably thinking wtf…

  229. Nef05 says:

    BS! He was 5 yrs older of Trayvon when he did it. His HISTORY of making poor decisions 5 yrs later than Trayvon had a chance to rehabi;itate himself,is RELEVANT – Since the defense has made an entire defense on the SuperThug, Black, Majik, Slimm, Dynamite, with Xray vision and 8 arms!!!!

    Ancient history my patootie!

  230. mrsdoubtfire says:

    He’s gonna walk……sorry Trayvon

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Ok lets all stay strong for Trayvon who is in heaven…J4TM.

      • mrsdoubtfire says:

        Sorry My rose tinted glasses are off. The prosecution have not proven their burden or even come close for 2nd degree murder. What about all his lies…………..Oops Serino said he believed him wtf

      • cielo62 says:

        J4TM~ Thank you! I claim it.


        • J4TMinATL says:

          On the eve of possible closing arguments, we all have to stay strong, keep praying and stick together here on the blog.

          Sending prayers to everyone.

    • Two sides to a story says:


    • elle says:

      Let’s stay optimistic. There is no reason to be upset until there is reason to be upset. I believe fogen will be behind bars very, very soon.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Nah. Fogen is screwed with lesser charges. They nail him for something.

    • Malisha says:

      I disagree.

      The defense case did not raise any real doubt about the four important elements of the prosecution’s case:

      1. Fogen saw and profiled Trayvon Martin as a guy who was “up to no good” and Fogen was motivated by a depaved desire to make sure Trayvon did not “get away”;

      2. Fogen stated that Trayvon Martin RAN and he then admitted that he was following him;

      3. Fogen has admitted in his own narratives (every single one of them) that he did not identify himself to Trayvon as harmless, even when they were within speaking distance before any physical hostilities had occurred;


      4. Fogen had “very insignificant” injuries and knew the police were on the way, therefore, he could not have reasonably feared great bodily injury or death.

      I think it’s a conviction, right there.

    • God is there says:


  231. breelee says:

    I’m feeling let down on the states rebuttal, am I wrong? Doesn’t sound like they’re doing much. The duhfense opened many doors on fogen’s character, but it doesn’t seem like the state is doing anything, or allowed, to show his bad side.

  232. My Forehead Tho says:

    I thought the State closes last?

    • groans says:

      State closes first and last:

      1. State’s closing argument
      2. Defense closing argument
      3. State’s rebuttal closing argument

      Not sure what restrictions may or may not apply to #3. The word “rebuttal” suggests it would only “rebut” the defense closing. I’ve been wondering how much, if any, flexibility there is as far as #3. I have no idea about that.

  233. J4TMinATL says:

    And here goes stupid West and O’Mara trying to drag it out………….sorry West. We all know you are worried about that Orlando Convention.

  234. Rachael says:

    GZ looks like he’s going to cry. I would too if I were him.

  235. colin black says:



  236. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Their are more people who can testify to him being aggressive, he was fired from being a bouncer and a security guard

  237. J4TMinATL says:

    She just laughed in their face. Love it.

  238. fauxmccoy says:

    hahahahahahaha — you go nelson. nice laugh and smile ‘over ruled’ o’mara!

  239. My Forehead Tho says:


    O’Mara: I object
    Nelson: Okay, *smiles* overruled

  240. Tzar says:

    Oh shit
    no rebuttals except for Fleischman
    and closing arguments tomorrow

  241. colin black says:


    The jurours will be well aware of this incident

    count on it

    Gods plan Remember.

    Satarday 13th guilty verdict.

  242. disappointed says:

    Sir rebuttal. Screw that.

  243. damn~!!!!! wtf where’s the rebuttal!! god!

  244. Soulsistawoo says:

    What the huckabuck is the State doing with this rebuttal!