Zimmerman trial hits a snag on day 10

Monday, July 8, 2013

Good evening:

The Court finally recessed for the day at approximately 6 pm EDT following unsuccesful discussions to resolve disagreements regarding an animated computer program that the defense wants to introduce into evidence. Based on the arguments of counsel, the animation apparently presents O’Mara’s theory of the case and his legal arguments as though everything said is undisputed or uncontroverted. Basically, it directs the jury to return a verdict of “not guilty.”

The animation also contains or is based on new information that the defense did not disclose to the State until mid-afternoon today. One of the items of information is a report that Mr. Donnelly listened over the weekend to the death shriek in the background of the recorded 911 call and relied on that in forming his now certain opinion that the defendant uttered the shriek.
The defense did not disclose the report to the State until after the witness completed his testimony. That constitutes a discovery violation and the State moved to strike Donnelly’s testimony. Judge Nelson conducted a Richardson hearing outside the presence of the jury late this afternoon. At the State’s request, she delayed issuing a ruling until tomorrow morning to give them an opportunity to prepare an argument supporting their claim that they were materially prejudiced by the discovery violation.

Some of the information in the computer animation apparently was obtained over the weekend from Dr. Vincent DiMaio, the former medical examiner for Bexar County, TX (San Antonio). The defense is pkanning on calling him tomorrow.

Judge Nelson wants to resume court tomorrow morning at 8:30 am EDT to hear further argument from both sides regarding the admissibility of the computer animation and the State’s motion to strike testimony.

Judge Nelson also issued an order late this afternoon denying the defense motion to reconsider its order prohibiting the defense from mentioning that trace amounts of marijuana were found in the Trayvon Martin’s blood sample.

In other news today, the defense presented the testimony of the Ostermans, the Donnelleys, Investigator Chris Serino, Officer Doris Singleton, and Tracy Martin. With the exception of Tracy Martin, every witness was certain that George Zimmerman uttered the terrified death shriek.

Tracy Martin was certain that it was Trayvon Martin. Serino and Singleton said they were certain that Tracy Martin said “no” when Serino played the recorded 911 call and asked him if he could identify the person who uttered the shriek. Mr. Martin admitted that he might have said “no” but he attributed that comment to shock and an inability to accept the shooting and Trayvon’s death.

No one mentioned that the shriek ended with the shot.

Today’s session was a frustrating mess.

Hopefully Judge Nelson will get matters straightened out tomorrow morning.
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543 Responses to Zimmerman trial hits a snag on day 10

  1. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Just to lighten things up:

  2. boyd says:

    hey since the defense brought in a fighter guy testifying that Fogen was the pillsbury dough boy,

    NOW CAN THE PROSECUTION BRING IN WITNESSES THAT FOGEN ATTACKED? (sorry for the caps, I’m pissed off)

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Join the crowd

    • aussie says:

      NO.

      The gym guy testified about his training and how badly he was doing. That does not open the door to his history of attacking people, because those are not issues of ability but of character.

      Maybe, perhaps, the door for bringing character evidence has been opened, by the various “scream recognition” friends. Maybe. The judge will have to rule.

      This is because prosecution can only bring in evidence of BAD character if defence has opened the door by talking about good character (so pros. is allowed to rebut that). The defence witnesses seem well coached to stay just inside the line that would open this door.

      This State team has run more trials than all of us between us have even seen. I am sure they know more about what they’re doing than we do. One thing I do know for sure, trials on TV and in movies are NOT REALISTIC — they only show the dramatic parts. Perry Mason would be held in contempt of court in any real court.

  3. FaithRESTOREDorLOST says:

    If BdLR came down hard on the spd guess what the defense would have pounced on it saying what a shoddy job they did of evidence collection. The prosecution had a tight rope to walk with that and making sure the door was not open to the items on Trayvon’s phone, Now in rebuttal bring on that voice exemplar and let folks hear what Zimkiller really sounds like. They need to find a way to make sure the jury knows about the texts message and wants to read them, Now on with the hearings this morning, block that animation or get so much tossed in it , it’s worthless, and get that frauds testimony tossed, wtf you can’t be in the court and your a witness, I’m looking for the prosecution to bring it this morning
    GAME ON.

  4. Tee says:

    You need to try your case in front of the jury back up you statements with your witnesses. you can’t win a case based on your ability to give a good opening and closing . They are not ready for the likes of slimy people like MoM & West and it’s proven in that courtroom. If they dont start to fight and press back we could lose. Glad I trust in God and not man.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Looking at this case has strengthened my faith in God. MAN DOES NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS.

    • boyd says:

      I agree, play lone ranger with the with the white hat , West and MOM will bury you.

      they did not want to voice experts to testify there was 2 voices.
      now they swamp the court with Fogen’s buddies to tell s it was ‘georgie’! and be character witness as well.

      so where are Trayvon’s friends? I am pissed off

      I said the the past, they did not drop enough bombs on Fogen.
      they need to bring in the witness to testify about what Fogen did to them. The prosecution is not revealing who Fogen really is.
      We know, does the jury?

  5. Deborah Moore says:

    Good Morning.
    It’s not over until it’s over.
    Hoodies Up!
    Faith Up!
    Let’s all get an A in Gets along well with others today.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      You are absolutely correct, Deborah.

      We have to see this to the end in order to understand the prosecution’s strategy.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        We live in a time of instant gratification.
        I’d like an Ah Ha moment during the trial as much as anyone, but that’s not how it usually works.
        Must stay strong until the end. 🙂

      • Eric says:

        the strategy is to make look like they will put a fight to save face publicly, and then fold quickly. The CTH crowd were right.

    • Eric says:

      I’m sorry but its over. And that was decided before opening statements.

  6. Judy75201 says:

    Remember who strong the prosecution was at opening? That will be evident again at close.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      That’s not good enough.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I am praying that that will be so. Mantei has the ability to bring it altogether in closing.

      We have witnessed the prosecution being uneven in driving points home and cross examining witnesses…..sometimes, they are strong; sometimes, they are weak.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        all together

      • Puck says:

        I too think Mantei should do the closing, especially since his stellar performance in the JOA hearing. After I saw that, I started posting here and there that he has the manner of a teacher or professor (since they reminded me of my own teaching style), and JN was engrossed by what he was saying. If he were to close, he would be “teaching” the jury about the facts of the case and the State’s theory based on the evidence, and I think that would be far more effective than a passionate address by Guy (good for opening, but not good for demonstrating their theory of the case since it involves details that Mantei is better suited to explaining in plain terms that appeal directly to the jurors’ common sense) or BDLR, who just doesn’t seem to me as someone who can do what I said Mantei is able to.

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      i think so too, at the moment they are just trying to get the facts together that will lay the foundation of the closing argument. It’s frustrating the way it works but they also have to be careful not to open any doors for which the defense can take advantage and turn things around….reminds me of the survivor mantra, outwit, outplay, outlast….gotta be very careful about how you get ahead because you don’t want to damage any appeal etc. I find it frustrating too but i don’t understand why they do it they way they do and i guess they are sticking to their plan. They can pull out all the stops in closing, photo’s, timelines etc.

  7. boyd says:

    On a side note, all the cases that Dr. Rao testified in should be re-tried. He changes his opinion. I cannot believe the jackass did that.

    I change my opinion based on another case. wtf is that?

    • Judy75201 says:

      I thought he was opening the door to a stronger civil suit. fogen did nothing to try to save Trayvon. He rendered no aid.

      • boyd says:

        That might be true, he came off as a fool up there. ME have to testify, he cannot do that job

        The prosecution has tons of openings and are not taking advantage of them. Frankly they seem to playing this with kid’s gloves.

        The bail bond hearing…no mention.

        Fogen’s pyschologist and past and current drug prescriptions. no mention.

        Witnesses on the stand to testify about the violence Fogen performed on them….. no mention.

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      hi boyd, i disagree although i do think he should have told the prosecution before getting on the stand. I think it is very fair that when he comes upon new information he isn’t to proud to change his opinion. If he shut out anything that challenged his original findings then he wouldn’t be being truthful. He learned more about that type of injury when witnessed a similar injury. If he wanted to ignore the facts and just say what he is told to say he would be better off on the side of the defense….so even though i think some of his testimony was head shake worthy at least i think he was trying to be truthful, which is what he’s suppose to do.

      • boyd says:

        he changed his testimony about the THC as well. and did not tell the prosecution.

        he’s not a 20 year old student in school.

        and he wold have learned about other injuries over his career (which is over) so just re-open all the previous cases in the country that are similar.

        It was garbage

    • degraveegmailcom says:

      @ Boyd do you mean Dr. Boa? Dr.Rao is a female doctor.
      Her name is Valerie Rao.

  8. Elizabeth says:

    BDLR asked Serino why he said”that is you screaming”.
    Serino answered that it was what he got from Tim Smith and another name who both had it
    from the killer himself.
    I believe Serino over Singleton anyday because he admits his misstakes(when asked).

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Would’ve made too much sense for BDLR to say “not because you took his word for it?l He.could also have stated once.again that Serino intended to.challenge Zimmerman EVEN AFTER he spoke to Tracy Martin so Serino.did not think the case was closed based on Tracy’s remarks as O’Mara.tried to imply. Also, Tracy tried to.talk about.the case even mentioned he wanted to know why the Defendant.chased his son. Why didnt BDLR lead him to morr questions along.those lines? Instead he cut him.off and said okay.okay. Again fuck BDLR until he shows me he can do better.

      • PerfectlyImperfect says:

        Tasha, that is an excellent follow up question which I’m hoping will come out during the rebuttal case.

      • Tee says:

        I have said from the beginning that BDLR sucks, got do many bad things said to me. IMO, he haven’t prepared gor this case and it shows.

    • FaithRESTOREDorLOST says:

      Serino , a tormented soul but at least he has one , others not so much

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Serino is caught between a rock and a hard place. He dropped the ball that first night. He used GZ’s statement to ofc. Smith and John Good’s statement that it was GZ who was screaming. Higher ups at SPD and the DA ran with that as their excuse for not charging GZ. What ever the end result, Serino will be blamed for it.

  9. Tee says:

    Professor can the prosecution enter Fogen’s voice exemplar on rebuttal and do you think that they will start to play hardball now?

    • boyd says:

      you can’t bring in notable experts to testify they hear 2 voices, but some computer animation is A-okay

      Zimmerman lying about the passport and money A-okay

      don’t bring inn the past, but now marijuana is being allowed in,
      while every state has lowered the offense to a speeding ticket or legalized it , these defense lawyers will say it causes a kid to attempt murder while talking on the phone for 2 hours..

      • Tee says:

        Has she ruled on the animation video yet? If she haven’t I hope that she deny it, as for the marijuana I’m very sure one or more of those women have smoked before and they know the effects. I worried as to how the prosecution will cross, there not to good with pinning down a witness and its sad. BDLR need to play the store video of Trayvon to show he was not swaying, as they are saying and play GZ recorded call where he say ” he don’t know what another guy deal is he’s on drugs or something”

        • amsterdam1234 says:

          The animation may be a good way for the State to get witnesses on the stand during rebuttal. So if the defense doesn’t put John Good on the stand again, the State can’t use a witness to challenge Good’s statements, but if the defense used Good’s statements and depicted it in the animation, they probably can.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Not holding my breath on the “hardball” part. They could have walked the “character” witnesses step by step thru the NEN call and highlighted that the.chase started in his car near the clubhouse and ended behind someone’s house. I would ask them if.they would say anything.for.Zimmerman. When they lied and answered no I would ask them who is more likely screaming, the one who fled the street to avoid a confrontation.or.the one who.left the street looking for one? I would play the part where he is asked where his car is parked 1 min and 23 secs after he jumps out but his response was “I.don’t know.” What would he have been doing inbetween houses during all that time? Looking for an addresss you say? When he hung up another 2 minutes passed yet still no address. What do you.think he was doing during all that time? Would you have exited your car in the rain on a dark Sunday.and stood in the rain for nearly four minutes off a lighted path and behind houses after reporting a suspicious.person you had seen go in.that same direction? If you were walking in your neighborhood and felt the need to.run off the road to avoid someone in a car would it frighten you if they.approached you in the dark.as well? In regards.to.the screams do you think it’s possible.that the person who.was screaming.was silenced by a bullet?

      • Puck says:

        All speculation, unfortunately, and outside the scope of what MOM asked them, so the State can’t bring it up on cross. There are things that we wish the State would (or would have) done that just aren’t allowed.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          Not true. BDLR.played parts of the tape O’Mara did not play.and asked her about it. Of.course.it’s.speculation but so is.her assertion.that.Zimmerman.screamed.

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            These are people.that claimed they stayed out of it so shouldn’t they know some facts before testifying? The tape is more than a scream.

          • Puck says:

            He can’t say the chase began at the clubhouse because what the attorneys say isn’t evidence, and so cannot form the factual basis of this sort of question. Also, most of the questions you suggested here and in an earlier post are hypotheticals. Speculation isn’t the same as testimony that GZ screamed. “What would you do if …” questions are simply not proper.

          • Puck says:

            No, not if what they’ve been called to do is simply identify the scream. It’s not a free-for-all.

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            Puck youre as wrong as two left feet. If she could ONLY testify about.the screams.why was he asking her about fucking punks and assholes? If the judge gives an inch.take a yard. The NEN call clearly says it started by.the clubhouse,.that’s not speculation. Pick someone.else this morning I’m not in the mood.

          • aussie says:

            They can ask about other VOICE identifications. That is a matter of listening and saying is it him or not? does it sound aggressive or friendly???

            THat is not speculation. That is “what does this sound like to you”.

            That is a TOTALLY different thing from asking “would you shoot someone through the heart yourself”. or “do you think that means he was here or there when he said this”. Totally different. That kind of thing is speculation, because it is a ‘what would YOU have done” or “what do you think was happening when…”. They are hypotheticals. What you HEAR are not hypotheticals even if you’re mistaken.

            You keep insisting they should be asking witnesses all sorts of stuff they cannot legally ask them and which they cannot legally answer.

            Just WAIT until they ask the RIGHT people, who CAN answer. Meanwhile stop trying to panic everyone into thinking, along with you, that the case is lost just because they’re not doing it how you think it should be done.

            These guy’s have done this before…. have you?

        • Eric says:

          That’s why state should have been more aggressive in their first two weeks.

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            You’re exactly right and since they failed then why not use Fogens own witnesses against him? Isn’t that what the Defense did the State’s witnesses? I’m tired of this sissyball bullshit it’s been past time for.them to play hardball.

  10. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    To use an analogy:

    I wish the defense and prosecution were playing a game of checkers instead of a game of chess.

    If it were a game of checkers I could understand every move much more easily.

    I only understand just so much about chess. I certainly do not have the ability to understand it as a professional chess player does.

    All I know is that chess is a game of strategy where the moves that are obvious to me often do not indicate what the master plan is.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      There’s something happening here
      
What it is ain’t exactly clear

      I think it’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound

      Everybody look what’s going down

      
Paranoia strikes deep

      Into your life it will creep

      It starts when you’re always afraid
      
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

      We better stop, hey, what’s that sound
      
Everybody look what’s going down

      Stop, hey, what’s that sound

      Everybody look what’s going down
      
Stop, now, what’s that sound

      Everybody look what’s going down

      Stop, children, what’s that sound

      Everybody look what’s going down

    • Eric says:

      The game being played is not chess, but bowling. And the defense is hitting strike after strike while the state is suck in the gutter.

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        i haven’t seen any strikes yet, maybe a spare or two, but it’s clear there case is as weak as wet spaghetti.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          The case is strong, the representatives are weak.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          Yes, the defense’s case is weak. The prosecution needs to take as much advantage of that fact at every opportunity that presents itself.

      • Sleuth says:

        BINGO!!!! You hit that one on the “head”! My thoughts exactly.

        • cielo62 says:

          Sleuth and Eric~ For real? Honestly? Are we watching the same trial? Bernie destroyed the defenses ‘expert witness’ and you STILL think the State is “making gutterballs”?? Seriously you are on the wrong site of you want to cheer for the defense, especially dumbdumb Eric, the most negative supposedly non-troll on the innerwebs.

          ________________________________

  11. boyd says:

    if they’re bringing in the marijuana that he smoked in the PAST. Then the defense can bring in the people George attacked in the PAST, right?

  12. Tzar says:

    Can someone alert Crump et al that there is an android game/app called “Angry Trayvon” where you get to fight as Trayvon Martin
    I thought the family had trademarked his name

  13. Raymond says:

    The re-enactment animation is going to be a hugely pivotal moment. If it is allowed it contrasts Zimmerman’s statement of Trayvon running south from the “T” with with Rachel Jeantel’s testimony that Trayvon ran until he was out of breath. Those two statements are inconsistent. For Trayvon to have stopped running at the “T” and end up in the confrontation that he did Zimmerman must have been chasing him for a much longer period of time, starting probably before the 911 call. A possible explanation would be that Trayvon had been running from much neaer the 711. That Zimmerman’s sighting of Trayvon was at the point that Trayvon was already out of breath (and therefore loitering) the rest of the events play out largely sequentially from there. The possible chase that exhausted Trayvon doesn’t have to be either Zimmerman or an actual threat, cannabis use does have a tendency to induce paranoia. I don’t see any other way that Zimmerman can “catch” a running Trayvon with a head start. Trayvon would be covering 3-400 yards in a couple of minutes and would be unlikely to be out of breath until he had covered at least a couple of hundered yards, not 60ft.

  14. jodiwankanobi says:

    what an amazing bunch of people have congregated here…i can’t believe that some people recognised Donnelly as being present in court, listening to the NEN call repeatedly, all whilst being a witness. And i have no doubt the prosecution are aware of this because their support team are hooked into the internet the whole time, watching and listening to the rumblings…i actually feel really really proud to be in such good company, well done guys!!

    And those that picked out Singleton’s inconsistent answer in comparison to her statement….job well done!! some amazing peeps here

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      It does us no good to pick up on.why.didn’t.the State pick.up on it?

    • Eric says:

      The prosecution is hooked into the internet? Don’t you think the prosecution should be hooked into the courtroom? How is it possible that an individual sitting in the family and friends box for 3 days can be sworn in and testify before the state objects? the moment Donneely walked in as the next witness, the state should have screamed. But nope, what does the state do? They allow him to testify. If his testimony is stricken, so bleeping what? The jury has already heard and seen.

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        i’m sure they have researches who look into things as they happen…there are more than just lawyers on each side, its a team of people taking on different roles.

  15. tharealkeisha says:

    Ok this is what gets me, it’s ok for fogen to say it doesn’t sound like mebut Tracey Martin is a liar because he supposedly say no when he heard it 48 hrs after his son’s murder. Here is another thing fogen is 29, he never made an answering machine recording before.

  16. Leslie says:

    will someoneplease help me..I can’t remember.but have the jurors seen fogens reenactment video?

  17. Sleuth says:

    @Xena

    JN presided over this case.

    Now this is what a sucker punch looks like, or is it “ground and pound”?

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-10-03/news/os-sanford-cop-son-plea-20111003_1_sherman-ware-justin-collison-jerry-hargrett

  18. Sleuth says:

    @Xena

    This is the link to the comment I posted the other day regarding Sgt. Anthony Raimondo’s involvement with the cover up of the brutal beating of Sherman Ware by Justin Collison, son of SPD Lt. Collison. Judge Nelson was the judge who presiding over the case.

    SPD state they did not take a statement from Mr. Ware because he was uncooperative, never mind the fact Mr. Ware was knocked unconscious at the time. Remember, Sgt. Raimondo was the lead officer on the crime murder scene of Trayvon Martin. Ofc. Timothy Smith was also involved.

    Now this is what a sucker punch looks like, or is it “ground and pound?

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-10-03/news/os-sanford-cop-son-plea-20111003_1_sherman-ware-justin-collison-jerry-hargrett

  19. bellesouth says:

    JL: “Judge Nelson also issued an order late this afternoon denying the defense motion to reconsider its order prohibiting the defense from mentioning that trace amounts of marijuana were found in the Trayvon Martin’s blood sample.”
    I thought JN was letting this in.

  20. gbrbsb says:

    After a whole day trying to post comments, re-booting my computer, trying 3 or 4 different browsers, dare I hope this comment once posted will put an end to my purgatory ?

    • willisnewton says:

      no rest for the wicked. but you are righteous

      • gbrbsb says:

        Don’t know about righteous, willis, but I sure feel wicked! Yesterday night late I finally could post normally without doing anything… it just suddenly worked. While I slept I left the computer as was, didn’t change even a window, but in the morning impossible to comment again!

        And it’s got worse, now comments I make don’t show up on whonoze’s either… my handle seems to be spreading like the spam! But then I went to bcclist and my comment was accepted there, and best of all, I can post on my own blog… for now at least ‘cos I’m soon expecting to get blocked there too!

        Anyway, if you get this, which you may not, as yesterday replying to a reply to me worked, but today it may not, could you ask whonoze to take a look to see if my comments to his site are being blocked and if he can fix it?

        About the trial, not happy at all about the defence’s forensic. I think he put many obstacles for the prosecution, and imo and I so hope I’m wrong, but I really don’t see how they jury will bring back M2… nor even manslaughter if the State doesn’t come up with better crosses and something else.

        Either my comments are being flagged as spam or I’m being banned

        • cielo62 says:

          gbrbsb~Nope I see you and your gorgeous doggy.

          ________________________________

          • gbrbsb says:

            So good to hear from someone, of late ! My comment worked to willis because I can reply to a reply to me through the notifications page but I am unable to comment directly on the page whether replying to a blogger or by creating a new thread. Indeed I just went to check and posted another reply to willis, on the page to say I had forgotten to eliminate the last para of my comment because I only think I’m being banned when I am feel really frustrated at what is going on… and hardly surprising, because if you read my comment to willis you’ll see I’ve been having the problem 2 days now and now even on whonoze’s blog too!

            I have tried to contact the professor replying to his posts, asking Xena and Faux to contact him, etc. because I think it is something to do with the spam guard, but “no da señal de vida”… Grrrrrr

          • cielo62 says:

            gbrbsb~ My yahoo email is what has been giving me conniptions lately! THREE TIMES I’ve had to reset my password. I don’t know if someone is trying to hack me OR the amount of email that runs through here is jamming it up somehow.

            I surely hope you get your posting issues fixed. This has been SOME emotional roller coaster!

            ________________________________

          • gbrbsb says:

            Thnx Cielo, it is getting really frustrating not being able to comment with these ups and downs! I will try changing my email password.

            Today, so determined was I to get back on the blog, I even set up a new WP blog and a new gmail to match under the handle “gbrbsbblogs” a bit of a misnomer, because my comment under that name didn’t publish either, albeit I’m hoping it’s simply being held as a newbie and when the professor sees it he will realise it’s me and that something is wrong!

          • Xena says:

            @gbrbsb. I replied to your comment but maybe you didn’t get it because of the problems you’ve having with the blog.

            There was a problem posting comments once before on another WP blog and their support instructed me and all participants to clear their cache. Go to your browser and clear the temporary internet files. That should resolve the problem.

          • gbrbsb says:

            Thnx, Xena, will try again.

            Did you see my post on your blog, because it said “posting comment” but then never appeared on the page. I now can’t post on whonoze’s either but I can on bcclist and also my own… for now!

          • Xena says:

            @gbrbsb. Thanks for letting me know that you posted to my blog, because your comment was not in moderation. It went to spam and I had my work cut-out for me to recover it. LOL!!

            Your IP address is not blacklisted as spam, so I’m not sure what caused that. I’ll check on that more a bit later. Oh my — this must be very frustrating for you. Now that your comment has been approved on my blog, your subsequent comments should be posted without a problem. However, I have had problems with another person who although having approved comments, their subsequent comments still go into moderation.

          • gbrbsb says:

            Oh, thrills Xena, you are an angel, an angel warrior

            I will try to post again on BB to see see what happens.

            If it works, and please please whoever and wherever you are, please make it work, then all I will need to do is get hold of professor and whonoze so they can try the same… no mean task I’m sure!

            If it doesn’t work then I will think again, but I will later try to leave a one word post on your blog with using my brand new email and WP ID I set up today, “gbrbsbblogs”… determined I am!

          • Xena says:

            @gbrbsb. Your last comment on blackbutterfly7 was posted without going into moderation, neither spam. (Hooray) Looks like your comments here are getting posted to.’

            If some comments are not getting posted and disappearing into the black hole, there is only one other reason I can think for it, and that is if you are using more than one computer or a combination of cell phone and computer. Each time an IP address changes, although the handle and email address is the same, WP does not recognize the pre-approved IP address and generally sends the comment into the moderation queue.

          • gbrbsb says:

            One computer and no cell phone. My OH’s boys have an old notebook which we turned on once last week to see if we try to set it up for the carers or get a new one and start again and it connected to the household broadband. But it is off now and it was only for an hour or so. Could that be it?

          • gbrbsb says:

            I worked Xena, it worked, I have no less than 3 comments on BB now! I need you professor… please.

            The CG guy testifying at the moment does what I have worked in for a good part of my career…

            His work will be perfect for ads, TV, film, corp id, etc. etc.but not to animate an M2 based… and based on Georgie’s version.

            I agree with my OH, also a fine arts major although using only traditional techniques, that this is a bit too Disney and gimmicky for over here at least.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Willis, please please ask whonoze if he can accept one or more of my lost comments from his spam box and set me free.

        For unknown reasons my email, handle or IP are being flagged as spam here, at the lounge and on Xena’s blog too. WP’s support advised the blog owner has to do it, Xena already fixed the problem on her blog for me so I got here and the lounge and PL is nowhere to be seen.

        (I can only post this because I am able to post to bloggers who have replied recently to me.)

    • Sleuth says:

      Oh, I’m feeling ya. Same here. So far, so good.

  21. Leslie says:

    I love the musician Ryan Bingham and this is my favorite song of his. It’s called “Hallelujah”. Here lately when I listen to it, it makes me think of Trayvon.
    Trayvon, I dedicate this song to you. Rip and pray your murder is brought to justice.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Sad….pray for justice…God will handle everything…

      • @Everyone

        I’m praying too. I cry out before God asking him to let justice prevail. My soul is so grieved at the mean spirited people lying and smearing an innocent child for no reason other than his blackness.

        • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

          I don’t know if you believe in fasting but I am starting a two fast for Trayvon only drinking healthy not food. People join me… fast for Trayvon Tuesday…8am til 6 pm. On tomorrow… Watch Almighty move for Trayvon.

  22. smokeegyrl says:

    Rumor is that the Defense is going to Rest probably tomorrow or Wednesday.

  23. dianetrotter says:

    A pundit on HLN said something is radically wrong when a kid is dead and everyone is feeling sorry for the one who killed him.

    • Rachael says:

      Got that right!

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      Was she escorted out because she made too much sense? She couldn’t be more right if she tried.

    • boyd says:

      yeah, the one who got out of the car and chased the kid

      about time people start realizing this. I’ve had it with this crazy country.

    • MDH says:

      It shows the mind set of those who support GZ and the community that enabled him.

      Seriously:

      He falsely accused a black child of stealing a bike.

      He demanded that a black resident of the community show him ID.

      In an all white idealized Smallville, the community would have demanded that something be done about this crazy man and law enforcement would have squashed him like a bug.

      Instead, he got and pat on the back for doing a good job.

      The War on Drugs has been a carte blanche for the system to violate the fourth amendment rights of people of color with impunity.

      GZ is a pathogen spawned by a sick host.

      And now the system has to do a show trial that directs blame away from itself.

      This shit gets old. Way too old.

  24. Leslie says:

    I don’t know if I can even watch in the morning. This sh** is tearing my nerves up! Some things must be addressed by the court..
    1. Donelly being present in court all week.
    2. Prosecution needs to clean their “act” (it’s what it’s starting to look like) up.
    3. The credibility of the gym guy needs to be brought into question..apparently he recently attacked a woman for a debt she owed him..imo, the jury of all women won’t like that.
    4. The state needs to get fogens past character admitted and his prescription list admitted. The conditions he is taking meds for are not so good, but imho, depending on his cocktail, it could be worse with treatment.
    5. O’scara allowed Donelly to testify and LIE! Surely there is some repercussions on his behalf.
    I fucking sick and tired of the defense demonizing Trayvon! The focus needs to be brought back to the issue. Fatass shoulda kept his depraved ass in the truck! He hunted Trayvon like they were in the Hunger Games! His nose should be a long as Hwy 85 by now with all the lies. GTHOOHWTBS!

    • Puck says:

      You might indeed want to watch first thing in the morning (8:30) when the State will most definitely address the Donnelly issue with photographic proof. I’m sure JN will have some questions for MOM and Westingtime. In fairness, if they didn’t know Donnelly, they might not have known he’d been there, but Fogen most certainly would recognize his friend, and should have alerted his counsel, but of course this is Zimmerman.

  25. The fact that we’re discussing whether it was Trayvon screaming is mind numbing. Blood curdling screams. Gunshot. Screaming stops. Trayvon DEAD!

    This bullshit discussion about whether it is GZ screaming is what sparks protests. My blood is at the boiling point!

    • KA says:

      Agreed. This whole discussion is stupid…

      if what GZ said really happened….

      – he would have blood running down his throat causing a involuntary chocking/gagging reflex eliminating full lung screams
      – he would be smothered in the mouth and nose immediately before the shot causing no real screams to be picked up at all by the call
      – he would have continued screaming “help me” after the shot because he claims to have still considered Trayvon a threat to his life.

      I can’t believe this is even a discussion. If I heard those sceams from a neighbors house and then a shot with immediate silence. I (nor would anyone else) would not even QUESTION what happened…the screamer was shot, end of story.

      • Dee says:

        Did you notice the prosecution didn’t even say anything about the silence after the shot? I kept saying say it say it, tell them it was the shot then silence, why did Zimmerman stop crying suddenly if he was in so much pain? Why didn’t he continue to hallow for help until someone came out? However, he didn’t because he shot the one that was screaming for his life. You cannot copy that kind of a scream unless you know that you are about to die on the other end of a gun. Which was pointed at him from the time Zimmerman walked up on Trayvon. Like I have been saying something is not right with this whole trial at least on the prosecution side, something just not right.

        • Jun says:

          They stated it at the JOA that the screams stop at the gunshot

          witnesses have also stated that happened

          the recording also shows it stops abruptly at the gunshot

        • KA says:

          Guy said it in opening statements. He told the jury “please pay close attention to when the screams stop…at the sound of the gunshot”

          I agree they have not emphasized it consistently, but they did introduce it in opening and I suspect they will reemphasize in closing.

    • Sleuth says:

      I call BS! Heck, for $5,000 more Donnelly and O’Dirty could have brought 5 more “friends” to testify it was the confessed murderer’s voice.

      It’s one thing to be a character witness, and other to be able to recognize shrieking screams and yells of someone you’ve only known a short period of time.

  26. KA says:

    Can we get some media attention on the fact that Donnelly was in court last week when the 911 tapes were played?

    I know the contact for one of the Global Grind co founders, I will email him…can we get this blasted by anyone who knows anyone?

    Maybe Prof Leatherman can write an entry on it?

    I think the visibility needs to be raised (similar to the ice cream stunt)

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @KA,

      Well, they have Donnelly dead to rights.

      Why swear anyone in, if he’s not held to it?

      There has been so much disrespect shown to the Court and this Judge that it would be a real feel-good moment to nail him.

      Best though, is that it discredits the defense.

    • Puck says:

      Mantei’s on it, and the photo in which Donnelly is shown in the courtroom has been tweeted to Crump.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Puck.

        “Mantei’s on it, and the photo in which Donnelly is shown in the courtroom has been tweeted to Crump.”

        That’s good news. I should have e-mailed Crump the moment Donnelly entered the court. I figured I could not effectively get to FDLE.

      • KA says:

        But it needs to be a day the call was played. I would tweet MANY a picture from every single day he was there.

        • Puck says:

          I went to Crump’s FB page. Someone linked to Xena’s video and I posted a message just to be sure. But I’m sure Mantei was able to find the evidence in minutes — he’s good. He’s my favorite. Team Mantei.

          • Sleuth says:

            Thanks Puck! We owe you guys BIG time! Yeah, Mr. Mantei appears to be more familiar with 21st century tech than the others.

      • Xena says:

        @Puck

        Mantei’s on it, and the photo in which Donnelly is shown in the courtroom has been tweeted to Crump.

        Hallelujah!!!

      • Sleuth says:

        Yippee!!!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      KA asks

      Can we get some media attention on the fact that Donnelly was in court last week when the 911 tapes were played?

      i know that joy ann reid of thegrio.com and often times commentator is easy enough to reach on twitter. she is also a central floridian and has keen interest in this story.

    • Jun says:

      I think you forward the video and footage to Mantei and the state

  27. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Someone in and earlier post was asking about Trent Sawyer… I think this Is his new site.. I think…

    http://zimmerman-vs-martin.blogspot.com/2013/06/day-5-by-stateoftheinternet-trent-sawyer.html

  28. RobertSF says:

    I no longer have any faith in the prosecution. I believe Richard Mantei personally is a good, persuasive litigator, but BDLR is the lead prosecutor, and the strategy and the tactics are his. However, I’m not a big believer in conspiracies, and I believe that more is explained by incompetence than by malice, so that’s what I’m going with.

    BDLR is simply not a very competent prosecutor, and his conviction record is what it is only because his usual opponents are overworked public defenders, some of whom meet their clients only a week before trial.

    From the start, he allowed the defendant’s version to stand as fact. From the start, the defense talked breezily about Martin assaulting Zimmerman, about Martin breaking Zimmerman’s nose, about Martin pounding Zimmerman’s head on the concrete, as if those were stipulated facts without a peep from the prosecution. It’s almost as if the roles reversed, with O’Mara laying out a narrative and BDLR trying to introduce reasonable doubt.

    From the start, BDLR has presented no specific theory of the case. If Zimmerman is lying, then what did happen that night? We don’t know because the prosecution hasn’t said. This is a case in which time plays a big role. From the time Zimmerman jumped out of his truck to the time he yelled, “What are you going here?” and Martin’s phone went dead, four minutes and fifty-five seconds went by, yet the story Zimmerman tells takes all of one minute and twenty seconds to recreate. The prosecution should have been hammering the timeline from day one.

    I don’t think BDLR is deliberately throwing the case. When we ask ourselves, why didn’t he prepare the witness better, or why didn’t he challenge this, or why didn’t he challenge that, I think two things give us the answer: his constant and endless apologizing, and his inability to do basic tasks on a laptop. The man is befuddled.

    • Disagree. He doesn’t need to present a theory of the case, and in fact, that would be iMO a mistake

      That;’s not the error they are committing. The error is having decided on the thesis the defendant is a liar” they aren’t dotting their “i” and crossing their “t” and aren’t being aggressive in this point

      They seem to be leaving it hanging for the jury to figure it out

      While the Professor may be right – that hand holding isn’t a good idea- I do think people need to hear a reinforced statement that keeps hammering the same point home.

      The strategy didnt need a theory of how the crime occurred. The strategy needed to really hammer home the point the defendant is a liar, and from there, there’s no defense available.

      • Endless Summer says:

        I agree. Repetition is the key to learning.

      • Jun says:

        The jury already knows the state’s theory of the case, which is in their probable cause affidavit

        They also presented to the jury and the judge during the JOA hearing, witness evidence to support their theory and other evidence to support the contention that Fogen was hostile, he targeted aggravated stalked profiled hunted down confronted threatened attacked and murdered an unarmed 17 year old boy, while the defendant had the 17 year old boy pinned down at his mercy, while the defendant was straddling over the pinned boy, while the defendant had a 50 pound weight advantage at 208 pounds, and he shot the boy as the boy screamed and yelped for help, and afterward the defendant simply got up and walked around looking around as if he was making sure no one saw what happened

        The defense has supported their theory with zero evidence, and only their own words… and their theory will obviously be biased as hell

        The jury is not required to believe anything the defendant has stated and the state gets to rebut and show what happened in closing

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I agree…

    • Jun says:

      Nothing either lawyer says is evidence and the jury is supposed to disregard what is said by the lawyers

      Only the witnesses and forensics is evidence

      The main factor is Omara has presented zero to support what he says, as no witness has stated that Martin assaulted Fogen out the clear blue sky, with the exception as to what Omara says, but what he says is not evidence

      What have the actual on scene witnesses said so far?

      That Fogen targeted, stalked, profiled, chased, hunted, confronted, threatened, attacked, and then killed an unarmed 17 year old teenage boy with skittles and ice tea

      The on scene witnesses all point to the boy screaming for help

      The only witnesses who claim it’s Fogen are all family or friends of his, even with Donnelly claiming Fogen can sound like a little girl

      All Omara has pointed out via witnesses is biased witnesses claim it’s Fogen screaming, that’s it

      Everything else is Omara’s own words, which is not evidence

      • I don’t know if juries are as disciplined as your argument requirements them to be.

        • Jun says:

          Well the judge reminds them at the end that that is the case, and I personally have not seen Omara claim that Trayvon sucker punched Fogen when the jury was present

          And if need be the judge can mention again at closing and also remind them that Omara and West are not witnesses, therefore it is not evidence of what happened, and that no witness has attested to what West Omara claim happened, because lets be honest, which witness has stated what West and Omara claims happened?

          • RobertSF says:

            But Zimmerman already testified through his statements to police that Martin sucker punched him. Those statements are in evidence, and the jury already saw them.

          • Jun says:

            Yes, but those statements have been disproved

            None of the witnesses state that there was a confrontation and fight at the T, which means, Fogen is lying

      • RobertSF says:

        The main factor is Omara has presented zero to support what he says, as no witness has stated that Martin assaulted Fogen out the clear blue sky

        Yes, but keep in mind, he doesn’t have to. He doesn’t have to prove that Martin assaulted Zimmerman. When BDLR brought in Zimmerman’s recorded statements to police, that allowed Zimmerman to testify without having to submit to cross-examination. And his story is, basically, that Martin assaulted him, injured him, and that he had to shoot Martin.

        It’s the prosecution who has to prove that what Zimmerman says happened did not happen. And I don’t think the prosecution has done that. People upthread are talking about points that are “too nuanced for the jury.” Well, if they’re too nuanced for the jury, they don’t count. The points need to be slapped in the jury’s face so that it can’t miss them.

        • Jun says:

          That’s where rebuttal is for

          And yes, for an affirmative defense, the defense has to present some evidence to support their claim

          Also the state has presented evidence to disprove Fogen’s claims, in all of the on scene witnesses, who pointed out that Fogen targeted, profiles, aggravated stalked, hunted down, confronted, threatened, attacked, and then murdered an unarmed 17 year old boy

          Seriously, which evidence from witnesses and forensics has backed up anything Fogen claims?

          Zero…

          None of the witnesses, putting their testimony together, has stated that Trayvon sucker punched Fogen at the T, knocked Fogen down and then mounted him and bashed his head into the concrete

          All of the witnesses put together have stated that there was an altercation that Fogen instigated by the clubhouse, Trayvon tried to flee and avoid the altercation, Fogen went after him, at about 100 feet south of the T to about 40 to 60 feet south of the T a chase is witnessed, Fogen was seen 40 to 60 feet south of the T standing with Trayvon, Fogen was heard confronting Trayvon and seen… which disproves the walk across T story

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            Jun I’m sorry but you need to take off your rose coloured glasses and observe what others are saying for a change. You type as if the jury should pick up on all the things you say when the point is BDLR should continue to hammer home the points you type on direct.and on cross. He lets the witnesses take him down a stupid ass rabbit hole and gets lost in the midst of his own thoughts. For instance when.Mrs. Donnelly was on the stand he spent quite a bit of time trying to get her to say Zimmerman’s.voice changed. FOR WHAT?? You are trying to nail her on how she recognizes his death shriek so stick to that point. Why couldn’t he think to play back Zimmerman saying the voice doesn’t sound like him to all the witnesses? If he didn’t recognize his own voice on tape how could they? Why couldn’t he ask if they are aware that the person he.killed was a minor? Why couldn’t he ask if they could see themselves jumping out of their car in the dark and rain and going in the same direction as someone they had pegged to be dangerous? Why couldn’t he have asked if they have ever had to shoot a kid in the heart? Why couldn’t he say that Zimmerman’s story says Martin knew about the gun so wouldn’t the fact that he knew it was about to be fired at him cause Martin to scream? The scream stopped when the shot was fired doesn’t that usually indicate the screamer got shot? Could it mean the screamer was shot? So many opportunities to nail these witnesses and remind jurors they are supporting the killer of a 17 year old kid but.BDLR drops the ball.

            I have no faith in the State. A conviction can come only via the common sense and savvy of the jurors.

  29. Rachael says:

    What I’m having a hard time with – and will keep me awake tonight I know – is what they did to Tracy. I can’t believe that. I just can’t believe it.

    In all my years working as a nurse, it was not uncommon AT ALL for family to scream, wail or even under their breath say “no” at finding out about the loss of a loved one. And for Tracy, he not only was trying to come to terms with just having heard about it, he actually heard it on audio.

    Why would they do that to him, put him up there and treat him like a liar? WHY?!!!

    That is THE coldest thing I’ve ever seen. I thought MO’M was bad the way he treated Sybrina the other day, but this is inexcusable. Can they really do that?

    I hope now more than ever GZ is convicted. It will never take away the pain of the loss of Sybrina and Tracy, but for them to be treated this way on top of that…

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Sick people…MOM and West “a drunkard”

    • bettykath says:

      I think it was great that Tracy was called and especially immediately after the others. He was very credible. He put the lie to Singleton (as did Serino). I think Serino heard what he wanted to hear. He was already convinced that the screaming was fogen’s. He expected to hear “no” and missed the nuances of the response.

    • RobertSF says:

      Well, it’s the defense attorney’s job to do anything and everything to win his client’s acquittal, the only limits being those imposed by the law and by his professional code of ethics. If it takes stomping on puppies, mocking widows, insulting war heroes, and closing orphanages, then that’s what it takes. I’m not saying I like it, but it is what it is.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      Unfortunately, O’Mara and West plan on winning this case at all cost. If it means lying on and defaming a dead teenager and making his parents look like money hungry liars, then so be it.

      Truth be told, I still can’t believe O’Mara tried to get the Martins kicked out of their own son’s trial and when that failed, put a liar on the stand and attempted to get Tracy Martin removed.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      On top of O’Mara’s nastiness, it reveals Serino to be a sicko. Who goes to a man who called in a missing person report, and just sticks a photo of his son’s corpse before him? Plus, when Tracy went in person to the SPD, Serino invited him to hear the 911 calls and just played the gunshot 911 to him without warning? Serino’s platitudes about how it’s such a hard part of his job– ring hollow and off-key.

  30. PiranhaMom says:

    @Woow

    “How was Donnelly powerful?”

    Schmaltz. A whole frickin’ boatload of schmaltz. Most memorable of the a.m. voice “rememberers.”

    Likely irritated a number of the jurors, who will rejoice when his testimony is stricken.

    I forget if he was excused or is available for recall but he could get back quickly by an order of the court. Would be lovely to see Bernie give him a drubbing:

  31. rnsone says:

    Greetings. The Judge didnt deny the defense’s motion concerning allowing the jury to hear about the trace amounts of marihuana found in Trayvon Martins system. The jury will hear about it. Watching this trial leaves me to wonder why hasn’t the prosecution played the recording of GZ saying “help me”. We all know its clearly different from the 911 recording. Second, why doesn’t the state recreate the “straddle”? It should demonstrate GZ’s story is false. Also O’Mara claimed the gun was in front when in the video, GZ demonstrates that it is positioned towards the back. The state really has me questioning their presentation, I thought there was text messages by GZ that were going to be made public? Ill just sit back and wait and hope the state pulls out some ace in the hole or just presents the facts better. Ill now scroll down and read the rest of the comments and maybe some of my concerns are addressed, thank you.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I feel something is wrong with this prosecution strategy. So wrong… Angela Corey mysteriously showed her face today? Where has she been all this time… Maybe it is voting time she needs more votes.

      It is wonderful Bernie has been prosecuting for over 30 years but I feel their were better qualified people. He sounds like Marcia Clark the second rate prosecutor who couldn’t even convict OJ.

      • Rachael says:

        I don’t know what’s going on with him. He was totally dynamic for the hearings before the trial. Something is up somewhere.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Perhaps you’ve not been watching closely. While not prominently seated in the courtroom daily, she’s been in the front row of spectators on many days.

        Furthermore, we have no idea when she’s been in the Seminole courthouse in less visible areas monitoring testimony and/or dealing with other issues.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @everyoneisentitled says

        I feel something is wrong with this prosecution strategy. So wrong… Angela Corey mysteriously showed her face today? Where has she been all this time… Maybe it is voting time she needs more votes.

        dear sir or ma’am

        thus far, i have held my tongue regarding your recent reemergence and resounding negativity. you are of course entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. i must seriously question how much of this trial you have viewed if you think corey just ‘mysteriously’ appears today. she has spent considerable time right behind the prosecutors, as no doubt, many of our frequent posters can confirm.

        • first of all I have been on this site since Feb 2012 I recently stop posting. As I stated before I refuse to watch the trial live and try to obtain info from here. That was made clear earlier. Let me clarify. Corey should prosecute this case she obtained a conviction on a young boy for murder I believe. If this isn’t her jurisdiction find a way to make it before BDLR screws this trial up. So you are so high and mighty. As long as the professor doesn’t complain I’m staying. You seem disturbed by my views. Remember this is America and I have a right to free speech that doesn’t effect anyone on this blog.. You need to mind your own business and I mind mine. My recent reemergence and resounding negativity Is my opinion and many others fine it interesting. I’m speaking from relatives passing through the middle of racist Sanford when a relative member was told not to enter a wash house. Blacks were not allowed. This was 35 years ago and nothing has changed. Also I am interracial. Everyone doesn’t think like you and that is the beauty of this blog… Everyone have a right to there opinion and it stands BDLR is screwing this case. That is why I refuse to watch it and only check the blog for the info….

          Follow…..

          • fauxmccoy says:

            who can take your trial comments seriously if that is the case? you comment on trial activity that you do not watch? seriously??

            i’ll confront anyone who is factually challenged and the statement you posted was.

        • I choose for you not to communicate with you. Everyone Is Entitled To There Opinion. Regardless of all your chatter at the end of the day, “GZ got out of his vehicle after being told not to pursue chased him and Trayvon Martin is dead.” Case cold. Now I hope BDLR will sit down and let a more aggressive prosecutor take over with qualified expert witnesses.

          • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

            Correction: I choose for you not to respond to my post.

            Correction: Case closed…

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      It is killing me when the prosecution let’s things slip, I’m like you, I hope they are going somewhere with letting the defense talk GZ up to be such a good guy and letting people lie on the stand with no consequence… fingers crossed, I’m no professional in the law arena and these prosecutors have a lot of experience but they are scaring the hell out of me, especially since I have seen them be great… Wishing Juan Martinez was the guy asking the questions!

      • LSimon3321 says:

        I want to believe in the rope-a-dope here. MOM recognized a little late about BDLR’s fixation on the gun holster. I loved what I saw in that. The rope-a-dope comes in at whatever BDLR says, MOM attempts to have the witnesses contest it thereby having the defense’s witnesses testify to what the state wants entered into the record. I won’t say more b/c GZ supporters gather information.

    • sadlyyes says:

      he is in good company,with president,Clinton,and Pres Obama,and hundreds of other potentates

    • gbrbsb says:

      I agree so much about MOM’s dishonest representation placing GZ’s gun at the front when GZ’s so clearly showed in the re-enactment how he drew it from behind his hip. It is so very important the State to defunct that lie ASAP, because at the back Trayvon could NEVER have seen the gun, NEVER.

  32. KA says:

    So, I have to ask, what was Donnelly being called for if it was not voice recognition? Character witness?

    All the media claims him the most powerful witness for Zimmerman. Let’s hope tomorrow the State can request a re-cross on him and expose his lies to the jury.

    • Woow! says:

      How was Donnelly powerful?

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        Pundits are giving him all kinds of Kudo’s because he was a war vet and cried on the stand… they all know damn well he lied on the stand and when and if the prosecution brings it out they will be all surprised…

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @trial is underway baby who says

          when and if the prosecution brings it out they will be all surprised…

          they already brought it up, mantei stated such. they did not have cold, hard proof at that very moment. there is a reason court starts early tomorrow and we ought to have a clue as to what is on the agenda.

      • They mean he was entertaining. You have to translate what they mean. When they speak of powerful, they mean all the stuff, if I am remember correctly, about Vietnam. They eat this sort of symbolic story telling up because it sells commercials.

    • Xena says:

      @KA.

      Let’s hope tomorrow the State can request a re-cross on him and expose his lies to the jury.

      Donnelley’s testimony should be stricken and the defense found in contempt of court and sanctioned.

      • KA says:

        Will the jurors know why?

        It is like “unringing a bell”

        • Xena says:

          @KA.

          Will the jurors know why?

          Don’t know. You can bet though that the jurors will feel that the defense did something wrong. They may not know what, but they will know. This is strike two against the defense before the jury. The first happened on the defense cross of a State witness.

          It is like “unringing a bell”

          The jury will be instructed to disregard the testimony and that it cannot be considered in their deliberations.

          • Again, not a lawyer in this area, but I think it would be good to know why its being stricken- that the witness was caught, if the evidence is correct, in a lie. That’s a way to guarantee that his testimony will really be ignored rather than vague statements about it not to be considered.

          • Xena says:

            @newmediacounsel.

            Again, not a lawyer in this area, but I think it would be good to know why its being stricken- that the witness was caught, if the evidence is correct, in a lie.

            Not a lawyer here either (just a Della Street type), but since an order of the court was disobeyed, and that order is pursuant to Florida statute, it makes no difference if the testimony was true or false. Donnelley should not have been called to as a witness, PERIOD.

          • Rachael says:

            No they can’t do that. But it will still be obvious that there’s something up with the defense and that might make the whole defense suspect to the Jurors.

          • Xena says:

            @Rachael. Watched Vanilla Ice Cream West today. Think he’s working on his closing argument. Heard that some jurors roll their eyes whenever he comes to the podium. LOL!!

      • LSimon3321 says:

        It should be pointed out by the State, I thought I heard BDLR mention it, that Mr. Donnelly was sitting in the courtroom during other witnesses’ statements. I just watched a video by auntibtw (?) with video footage to that effect.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        His wife’s testimony should be too.

        • Xena says:

          #J4TMinATL. If the State can make any connection between her testimony and his testimony, there’s a possibility that her testimony might be stricken also.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            Yup. Bright and early to see JN rulings. #J4TM

            Let’s all hopefully get some rest tonight. Sending prayers to all of you, Martins’, JN, and prosecution team. Kisses up to Trayvon Benjamin Martin who is in heaven.

          • Xena says:

            @J4TMinATL. Yes, yes, and yes.

        • jodiwankanobi says:

          and the fact that their stories are very consistent with the bullshit his uncle said…they all heard the tv on in the background and the all didn’t discuss it or find out any information because miraculously knew they would be called to the stand.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @xena says

        Donnelley’s testimony should be stricken and the defense found in contempt of court and sanctioned.

        YES! all of that and donnelly put in the slammer for perjury, immediately. he has been caught, dead to rights. there is no question.

        • Xena says:

          @fauxmccoy. Can’t say that Donnelley committed perjury, because he was not asked if he had sat in the courtroom. But, disobeying an order of the court can be worst than perjury, especially when the disobedience is to give an advantage. There’s criminal contempt and civil contempt, and what Donnelley did was criminal contempt.

          John Donnelley testified today that he has testified in court previously. The State also has options of charging him with obstruction of justice because his violation was willful and deliberate.

          • Leslie says:

            @ Xena..but did he not lie and purjure himself by saying that he had never heard the 911 call? I’m no attorney, my area is forensics/biology..please correct me if I’m wrong.

          • Xena says:

            @Leslie.

            @ Xena..but did he not lie and purjure himself by saying that he had never heard the 911 call?

            Don’t know if that’s relevant when disobedience to an order of the court might result in criminal contempt of court. I would prefer that Judge Nelson finds contempt and exercises her judiciary power in setting sentence, than charging him with perjury and depending on a jury.

          • Leslie says:

            @Xena..would there repercussions for Omara and West?

          • Xena says:

            @Leslie.

            @Xena..would there repercussions for Omara and West?

            I hope so. A lawyer who deliberately disrespects the orders of the court and the law should be disbarred. A lawyer who does that to give a witness an advantage for the benefit of a defendant, should at least be found in contempt of court and fined.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            he took an oath to tell the truth. yet he stated that he first heard ‘georgies’ 911 screams on saturday, july 6.

            video will clearly show him in the court room while that tape is played ad infinitum.

            perjury, no?

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy. I went through Day 2 to find John Donnelley. That was a day when the HOA President, the crime scene analyst, and the officer who administered CPR to Trayvon were witnesses. I don’t remember other witnesses, but I don’t think that 911 recording was played that day.

            Patricia says that Donnelley was there more than one day. If she can remember when, I’ll review the videos. Maybe then we can pinpoint what was presented in court when Donnelley was present.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @xena — was in the midst of replying when message got lost in space.

            i think it was Pmom who listed 3 out of 4 of the specific days which donnelly was in court last week. i just have to wonder if that were possible how could one avoid hearing the 911 call?

            as far as i know, no one has even searched through week 1 video. i know i’m not up for it now and we will know for certain tomorrow morning what mantei has for us.

            i won’t lie, i’m hoping for perjury, contempt of court etc., etc.

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy. I started with day 2 and went through day 5. It’s not too often that we can see the galley on days 4 and 5 because that is when Vanilla Ice Cream West got a hard-on for Rachel Jeantel and they kept the cameras mostly on her.

          • KA says:

            My thought in the perjury was about what he testified…basically not hearing the call before Sat.

            If he sat in court while it played, then he heard it before Sat.

            That was the perjury I was thinking about. I assume that is material to what he testified.

    • sighhhhh says:

      To make it look like he’s the worst trainer ever and to support the ridiculous argument that GZ didn’t even learn how to punch during his months of MMA training.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      I honestly believe the media is doing this deliberately. They’re hyping this guy up to be the best witness ever today so they can have huge story tomorrow when he’s exposed tomorrow.

      I think they’re doing the same thing when they say “Fogen will be acquitted…”

    • Puck says:

      The defense was also trying to sneak him in as an expert in traumatic injuries based on his experiences as an army medic, most definitely to testify about GZ’s “injuries.” The early questioning makes this abundantly clear. The state took care of that in a sidebar and JN seems to have told the defense to limit their questions to those having to do with the voice on the 911 call.

  33. Tee says:

    My husband always tells my kids when they have done something wrong and gotten away with it, ” laugh now cry later.”

    God is good we watched GZ laugh durning this trial but I trust that when the verdict is read we’ll watch him cry!

  34. Woow! says:

    One of the ladies that got on the jury, I can not tell you which one b/c I did not keep up with their jury numbers.

    During voir dire, she was asked what she knew of the case and she responded that she knew TM attached CAC and CAC did not follow. She was then asked if she could set aside what she knew and make a decision based off the facts presented at trial and she responded yes.

    BDLR objected to this juror but MOM fought to keep her and won.

    I feel this juror is a loose cannon and may be a CAC supporter.

  35. Endless Summer says:

    It would seem that an animation is just a way for the defendant to testify without having to take the stand and face cross-examination.
    What other possible purpose can it serve?

    • Woow! says:

      Hey smokeegyrl…

      That is a racist teaparty group that wrote a bullshyte indictment that the masses are taking to be real. I posted about it last weekend. You can go back to Saturday morning’s thread and read about it.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Smokeegyrl..

      Not to worry. My cat Beauregard held his weekly Kittyzens Grand Jury and the KGZ just issue its report stating they have investigated this fraudulent group and declared them to be “Official Rodents.”

      No higher condemnation can come from the secret, but supersmart, Kittyzens Grand Jury. Penalty for being declared “Official Rodents” is death.

      Beauregard and his stalwart Kittyzens have already left for Florida to mete justice in its starkest terms.

      He informed me by carrier pigeon that on his return I will see the results of their execution in his kitty box.

      Scoop away!

  36. Woow! says:

    You know the media is biased when attorneys and politicians quit their professions to become pundits and/or journalists. Money is the name of the game and those people would sell their children for a buck.

  37. Well, the problem with this case is perception, not evidence.

    I don’t think the MJ is a big deal, but it will depend on the women on the jury, and how they understand the evidence.

    Frankly, I am ready to call the prosecution team a hot mess. there are just too many obviously dropped balls.

    If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say they are tanking this because the SPD looks bad if they don’t.

    I think the witnesses really didn’t say much about the core substance of the case, to be frank, today, and were mostly a smoke screen. The defense is well done smoke machine, but just that.

    The one good thing about today is that it opens up a lot of issues that the prosecution can, if they get their shit together (pardon my French), in the Rebuttal. I believe that because although this is not my area of law, it seems really clear that the defense has opened several doors here.

    Although it would be hard in some cases, I think an aggressive prosecutor would deal with all of the openings.

    We shall see. I think they are a hot shitty mess (again, pardon my French). Second only to the SPD. It amazes me for example that the SPD didn’t do a drug screen of the defendant. That’s simply stunning.

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      I have to agree with you on your post. Part of me feels like they have something up their sleeve because I have followed this case from the beginning and the prosecution seemed much sharper than the defense but as you stated, it seems that many opportunities to nail this case shut have been missed or ignored… Maybe the bombshell’s will come in rebuttal but I hope it’s not too little too late

      • People keep saying “but the rebuttal and the closing”

        My main problem with that is they still could do an amazing rebuttal and closing, without having to sacrifice being aggressive right now, and how much more better would it be to be nail the door shut rebuttal and closing than a need for a hail mary?

    • nocamo33 says:

      I kind of felt that way and someone here pointed out that the closing arguments deal with tying things together. That is great, but I think the jury needs guidance now. They need the PROS to step in and re-frame the all they are hearing. They just seem to be letting so much go. I really need to disconnect for the next week or so.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      And why can no one mention that SPD didn’t do a drug screen of defendant?

  38. Mary says:

    i’m watching the morning trial session right now on youtube.

    anyone else think someone ought to check the back of mark ostermann’s head to see if the little tiny head of voldermort is embedded in it?

    i know i would rest better if someone would.

  39. KA says:

    There was a moment in trial today that Lee confirmed that suspect lineups are not valid or are “tainted” you see if on TV and the name is there or you have no other choices….

    BLDR led him down this path and it clearly eliminated the testimony of most all of the witnesses that day about their “voice recognition”. BLDR used MOM’s argument on the Martin family recognizing the voice”in a group” and then extended it to TV and other media.

    I thought it was brilliant. BUT there are other things I am not finding so brilliant.

    I do believe there is a master plan behind the State validating [seemingly] little things into evidence and getting what seems to be an unimportant response from a witness and then sitting down…I think they are playing a “close to the vest” game with this trial that we may not appreciate until the end.

    With that said…I think the Defense’s case is really weak but they are surely scoring points through deception and confusion. I am hoping it all comes to bite them in the end.

    I still feel a conviction will happen. I am just worried it will not be M2 as I thought before.

    • Ultimately, there are so many missed opportunities, and the jury is being asked here to figure out for themselves. The other problem is that even if the prosecution has a strategy, they really need to start paying attention to what’s happening in the moment. I think the jury is already forming an opinion about guilty, so waiting for a hail mary to let it all hang out seems like bad lawyering to me. People, for better or worse, do come to judgments, and you have to open they remain open to what you want to say later, but you shouldn’t build a strategy relying on it when the defense, as you correctly point out, is scoring so many points. Part of it is their witnesses are extremely coached, and I am surprised no one is mentioning how coached, as they are not only stating “I am certain that his voice” but also pushing character evidence. The prosecution needs to be more aggressive, but I believe its too late. I hope I am wrong.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @KA

      i must concur with your excellent analysis.

    • nocamo33 says:

      BDLR saying “I apologize” all the time is not encouraging. Why don’t they rip into witness testimony the way OMara does? Say what you want, but the defense does not let 1 thing get by. Why not at least point out inconsistencies and imply or show the lies told? Did the PROS rest their case during it?

  40. groans says:

    Judge Nelson also issued an order late this afternoon denying the defense motion to reconsider its order prohibiting the defense from mentioning that trace amounts of marijuana were found in the Trayvon Martin’s blood sample.

    Really??!! The judge DENIED admissibility of the toxicology??

    What terrific news! I thought she had ruled the opposite, stating that it would be “reversible error” to keep it out, according to one or more of West’s cited cases! But I was distracted at the end and must have missed this.

    (But CNN seems to think the THC is coming into evidence. Maybe they’re just as confused as I was?)

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Geez, I missed it entirely and will definitely have to go watch the proceedings now.

    • ZCBest says:

      Oh no, the toxicology is in for sure! CNN and the others have it right, the state can cross and enter rebuttal witnesses as needed. I believe the professor made a boo boo. Doesn’t happen often. 😉

    • Cindy says:

      JN ruled that it is coming in i have never heard different she stated that it would be reversible error if she did not

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Maybe it’s the Med. Examiner’s notes that will admitted? And not the defense mentioning it? (not a lawyer, just trying see how both could be true.)

    • groans says:

      @ZCBest and Cindy – I believe you’re correct. Thanks.

  41. HereslookingatYou says:

    if you throw

  42. disappointed says:

    Officer Singleton can be recalled. I am inclined to believe if the Prosecution goes back and reads her report and answer of not hearing Mr Martin’s answer- they could ask her to clarify. Honestly I think they should just let it go though. I think with Doris lying today the Martin’s have more than enough for their lawsuit against the SPD.
    Plus there has been so many people identify both as the screamer the jury will use their own ears, common sense and ability to decide why would an armed man scream.

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      Common sense..the key to this case,,
      6 women should be able to figure it ,,,
      I will say it again, it throw everything aside and all you have left is the coward killers credibility…
      the jury KNOWS he is a liar ..
      now does it matter to them or not,

    • My running conspiracy theory is that its not incompetence, but the fact that many of these issues touch on the SPD that explains why the prosecution isn’t going in as aggressively as they should.

    • nocamo33 says:

      Could it be an attempt to “balance” the scales of justice. Let Zimmerman go for making a “mistake” and the Martins still get “justice” by suing? That would be very sad. But, hey if it’s all we can get! (That was sarcasm). I am getting pretty jaded over this thing. I will be very disappointed if justice isn’t done. But, I guess I won’t be surprised. Our society and system belong just as much to the warped, corrupt and racist as it does to those that feel that the way things are just should not be.

  43. Girlp says:

    Flagged that disgusting app. How could Google allow this.

  44. Jun says:

    Donnelly should get charged with obstruction of justice and perjury

  45. Woow! says:

    Don’t give up on justice.

    It baffles me to no end that each witness the defense team put on the stand today lied their assess off, put forth fake tears when that racist SOB own mother didn’t drop a tear.

    I scanned news headline before commenting and I am so through with the media. What exactly did MOM do today for them to say that CAC will not get convicted?

    The media is rooting for an acquittal.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I know…the media tried to sway everything. When the corporate giants say you must report this way they follow like sheep. They are bought and paid for by big money.

      Journalist were not like this even 10 years ago. They got rid of them and brought in this new age media and we do not know whom they slept with to get to the top. They are told what and how to report or you are fired. Just my humble opinion.

    • nocamo33 says:

      For crying out loud, it’s his friends and family. What else do we expect them to say? They are NOT evidence.

  46. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    How corrupt is GZ he killed this young man and now he is stealing his cry for help. I am irritated with the neighbors they didn’t even go to help.. even the grown so called coward men.. Where are the true army veterans who run to fight for the country. They would have done better.. RIP Trayvon. We all love you…

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      “How corrupt is GZ he killed this young man and now he is stealing his cry for help.”

      You’ll only disgust yourself if you tried to answer that question. This is the same guy who murdered a teenager, stole his screams and used his murder so he and his family/friends could profit off it.

      He’s beyond disgusting

  47. Jasmine says:

    Did you all know that there is an Angry Trayvon app? I am hoping that it comes to the attention of whoever to be able to get rid of this and maybe sue. I did search and flag it in hopes that is will get removed.

  48. The entire case is sad… Just can’t watch it any longer. I reframed from posting for over six months (I think) because of the stress. This case is outrageous. You can get out of your car after 911 tells you to stay put, run a little boy down with skittles and ice tea, kill him with a K-tec and claim he attacked you… And people believe this stuff.

    They take a blood sample from the black child and the white/latin man nothing who clearly had mental issues. Something is truly wrong here…

    • concernedczen says:

      Yes, something is wrong and after Zimmerman is acquitted we need to keep fighting and not let this travesty pass quietly.

    • Jun says:

      they can still prove the effects of the prescription drugs used by the defendant, and also the effects of him not taking his prescription drugs

      The battle is not over yet

      • fauxmccoy says:

        jun says

        they can still prove the effects of the prescription drugs used by the defendant, and also the effects of him not taking his prescription drugs

        no, jun, they cannot. the jury will never know because there is no tox report on him. a list of dr. scribed meds will not suffice and it has already been ruled as inadmissible.

        • Jun says:

          There are reports on Fogen’s prescriptions though, and the reasons for him taking prescriptions

          Whether or not he took them makes him look bad, that’s why both sides are covered, if he took them and if he did not take them

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @jun

            it just does not work that way. there is no tit-for-tat, the matter of the defendants med load was settled long ago, no matter how strongly you may wish otherwise.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @jun who says

            There are reports on Fogen’s prescriptions though, and the reasons for him taking prescriptions

            Whether or not he took them makes him look bad, that’s why both sides are covered, if he took them and if he did not take them

            and absolutely none of that matters because it is in admissible.

  49. gldgirl63 says:

    i saw something today that i had never paid attention to before…..i was watching hln tonite…..they showed gz facial injuries…(me and my daughter have be watching this trial…..)she is the one who pointed it out….his lip appears to be kinda glossy look….if you looked close enough you could see something blinking like a cursor…i never noticed that before and i have seen that pic at least 100x…..could that mean that the photo was photoshoped….. i had read that somewhere before….????

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I noticed it to….

      • gldgirl63 says:

        yeah i can’t help but feel…that all this defense is comming up with….is smoke and mirrors…..dna does not change…forensics does not change….just the fact that he followed him……to me brings all his statments of self defense into question…..(just sayin)

      • gldgirl63 says:

        did you find it online as well???
        because wasn’t that pic supposed to be taken with a camera phone…….????

    • disappointed says:

      MOM noticed it! He said something about the blood still glistening (during prosecution case). Or some other such bullshit.

    • Puck says:

      I don’t understand: how can something be blinking in a static digital image (that’s not an animated GIF)?

      • KittySP says:

        @puck- Whew, I was thinking that very same thing…

        • Puck says:

          Of course, I’m not saying it wasn’t photoshopped, because whonoze has done an admirable job of showing that over several posts here: http://whonoze.wordpress.com/

          I mean, this ultra-important picture taken by a cop (Wagner) was “forgotten about” for three weeks, and then it re-appears showing Fogen looking sort-of beat up, but beat up just enough, apparently, to be justified in shooting a kid in the heart at an impossibly perfect angle from an impossible position.

          • nocamo33 says:

            Who is the Zimmerman clan that so many people step in to lie for them, manipulate the law and perjure themselves in court. Not saying this just because of the “photo-shopped” pic (as I have not researched it independently). Just in general. These people seem to have some pull. Which is quite ironic given George’s rather troubled past, job, career, educational and living situation.

          • Puck says:

            PapaZim has connections.

          • nocamo33 says:

            He was ex-intelligence. I think this goes pretty far up.

          • Cercando Luce says:

            @nocamo
            It’s a kind of U.S. OdeSSa, I guess.

          • jodiwankanobi says:

            in the side by side photo, his eyebrows appear to be the same distance apart but in the doctored photo his eyes are much closer (bridge of nose thinned out) and the wound is further down his nose….

          • aussie says:

            They don’t NEED TO HAVE “PULL”. That is the frightening thing here; that it what makes the racism institutionalised. They automatically circle the wagons when “one of them” is threatened, even if it’s a total stranger to them. You see this in the immediate statements of John (“MMA” witness). He may NOT know GZ or be friends with him.

            But there’s a bias in the evidence towards the “us” and against the “them”. In many cases the witness may honestly believe what he says, because he was already biassed at the moment of observation.

            The “we know it was Georgie” witnesses are of course lying and know it. But it’s based on “it MUST be him” because that’s what fits with their mental image of the world. It cannot be Trayvon, any more than the sun could rise in the west.

          • Malisha says:

            But strangely, the prosecution doesn’t challenge either very questionable photograph. I was pretty sure neither one of them would have made it into evidence, considering the “chain of evidence” issues that would naturally arise. In a trial in Iowa a hospital had photographs (made with a culposcope) of a child’s torn hymen and the wrangle over the chain of evidence for those photographs took up half the trial (they got in and then were ignored by the judge). These are “tells” if the prosecution is deliberately throwing the case.

          • Puck says:

            The very first time that picture was used BDLR either objected or said something about it being distorted. Never heard anything more after that.

      • gldgirl63 says:

        i was stunned when i saw it… could not believe what i was looking at…..i was going to see if i could find that pic online….to see if i could see the same thing….

      • Ann says:

        is it possible you were seeing the laser pointer?

  50. Dee says:

    The prosecution is giving this case right into the hands of the defense. What has this world come to when another minority can come and kill our children off by using a white man’s law which was made for us. Stand your ground is made so that they can kill us off and get away with it, and they are using Zimmerman case to prove that they can get away with it. That’s why they are behind Zimmerman. They know they will use the same defense, he was a thug. What is why they don’t want Zimmerman to get in trouble for it, so they can see that it works. Keep your kids prayed up because if he gets off with this murder, your kids could very well be next.

    • concernedczen says:

      That is the truth.

      Singleton wrote in her March 2012 report that she did not hear Tracey’s answer to Serino’s question regarding the voice being Trayvon’s but today she says something completely different and the prosecution did not even question her about it.

      Also, the prosecution does not mention that Donnelly has been in the courtroom several times and listened to the 911 call before?

      They have let so much go, it has to be on purpose.

      I will be very surprised if Zimmerman is convicted of anything.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i think we’ve all figured out that SPD is getting a free pass and outrage is appropriate. the state sure has not given up on the donnelly thing – i don’t know how you come to that conclusion.

      • Trained Observer says:

        At the state’s insistence, the Donnelly issue is pending.

        • KA says:

          I suspect JN will be upset by it.

          Obviously, the defense knew he was there all week and still said it was his “first time” hearing. O’Mara knowingly allowed him to lie on the stand.

          This should have greater consequences than a mere striking. The State should be able to redo his cross examine and nail him on the lie in front of the jury…

          The jury will not know why it is being stricken from the record.

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        that’s big concerned…….i hope they do some homework tonight and pick up on that!!!

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        remember how BDLR asked Donnelly’s wife if her husband was John Donnelly? Perhaps they were aware before he was called that he was in the room and thought they would let him hang himself on the stand which is why they let him talk, to catch him out. Don’t know. And Singletons bullshit (as pointed out by concernedczen) really needs to be addressed. I hope they went home and did their homework, going over the witness statements and all for inconsistencies because we might be seeing Doris again!

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      As I tell the people who think Fogen will only get convicted to prevent riots, please hold off your conspiracy theories until the the verdict is read.

      Even God didn’t create the world in one day, though he could’ve. Have faith.

      • nocamo33 says:

        Why is the default assumption that blacks will riot if Zimmerman gets let off the hook?

        • My Forehead Tho says:

          Racist’s theory is my best guest. There were no riots when the police refused to charge Fogen, so why people think there will be riots if he’s acquitted is beyond me.

          If my memory is correct, one of the potential jurors called the peaceful protest to get Fogen arrested a “riot”.

          • nocamo33 says:

            Exactly. Protests=riots only when it involves blacks. How can any of those people that say such things be regarded as sane.

    • Jun says:

      I think you are overreacting a bit

      Donald Montanez killed a black man and he was convicted of Murder 3 and given 40 years for his act of murder, and he also claimed self defense

      Almost every trial the defense makes a lot of claims and the counsel, all their words are not evidence

      I will recap the evidence for you so far

      1) Sardyka, Manalo’s wife, Rachel, Mona, Cutcher, Witness 2, the 911 scream tape, Selene, forensic evidence of the shell casing cell phone and everything, the NEN call, all submitted and when combined, show that Fogen targeted Trayvon, profiled and aggravated stalked the minor, confronted the unarmed kid, threatened and attacked the kid, a struggle ensued, Trayvon was screaming and yelping for help, and that the defendant was on top of the victim, pinning him to the ground helpless, and shot the boy as the unarmed boy screamed, and then the screams abruptly stopped.

      2) The only witnesses claiming it was Fogen screaming, were not there, and are all family or connected to the witness. One of the defense witnesses tried to claim that “calling Trayvon a fucking asshole and a fucking punk” while going after the boy with a gun, was not hostile, so how credible is that testimony?

      3) Donnelly is gonna get charged with perjury and obstruction. He lied under oath and Omara tried to be sneaky with putting him in.

      4) There’s no dna whatsoever from Fogen on Trayvon’s hands, sleeves, cuffs, arms. That means the injuroes Fogen had were never caused by Trayvon.

      5) All the witnesses place the altercation about 100 feet south of the T, moving north to about 40 to 60 feet south of the T, where they were seen standing with each other. Jean Sardyka and Rachel, Manalo’s wife, Selene’s testimony proves Fogen lied about anything happening at the T.

      6) Fogen’s own words is that it all started at the clubhouse, and he was going after Trayvon as Trayvon tried to flee. Fogen is found 500 feet away in the same direction as Trayvon, away from the clubhouse, having murdered the boy, after confronting, attacking, and threatening the boy.

      I summarized the evidence fairly well….

      Everything the state will do when they tie it all together in rebuttal, will be backed up by evidence as the state is rebutting everything the defense tries

      The defense’s computer animation is hearsay and based on what the defense counsel says, not on what witnesses have testified as to what happened.

      What the defense says is not evidence

      The jury is also not required to believe the defendant

      The only “evidence” the defense has submitted thus far is hearsay and people claiming the young boy’s voice heard on the tape is Fogen, when the jury has heard Fogen’s voice, and all the witnesses claiming that were not at the scene and have a bias for Fogen

      It’s not even over yet, and the rebuttal has not even happened yet

  51. My Forehead Tho says:

    Guess who:

    • bettykath says:

      At 2 minutes he talks about how he deliberately didn’t listen to the 911 call on tv and how he first listened to it on Saturday.

      • bettykath says:

        Since he sat in court all last week, and the call was played multiple times, he’s a f!cking liar.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          I’m so positive he lies about being Fogen’s good friend I can taste it. His interest is in something else.

          • Cercando Luce says:

            He wants Fogen acquitted so that he can back Fogen for public office. What name recognition! That’s the first hurdle cleared, everyone knows that.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          Donnelly was by far the most “original” and over-dramatic witness for fogen on the scream tape.

          It’s important for him to be removed.

          If it was a prosecution witness, he would be torched!

        • My Forehead Tho says:

          LOL at his oscar worthy performance at 4:00 when started to cry on cue. And wasn’t this the same witness who gave that long drawn out speech about having respect for the courtroom and how it was the place to tell the truth? This guy, like the rest of the people who befriended this murderer, should be ashamed of himself. I’m sure he’s not, though

          • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

            Man I surely hope the prosecution pounces on this tomorrow morning. They mentioned he had possibly been there in court prior to testimony during the end of court today but I don’t think they knew for sure… I hope to GOD they get this out there but in front of the jury during rebuttal… I think it would be wise to let it go for now and call him a liar in open court!

          • Xena says:

            @Trial-is-underwaybaby.

            I think it would be wise to let it go for now and call him a liar in open court!

            Not when an order of the court, based on Florida statute, has been violated. We’re talking contempt of court. O’Mara and Vanilla Ice Cream West can blame Donnelly, and he can blame GZ, and GZ can point fingers back, but I think Judge Nelson is going to hold the lawyers responsible, and accountable, in addition to striking Donnelley’s testimony.

            The question is, what about the Mrs.? Since the husband was in court and heard testimony, did he communicate that with the Mrs which brings her testimony under scrutiny by the court? Inquiring minds want to know. 🙂

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @xena says

            Not when an order of the court, based on Florida statute, has been violated. We’re talking contempt of court. O’Mara and Vanilla Ice Cream West can blame Donnelly, and he can blame GZ, and GZ can point fingers back, but I think Judge Nelson is going to hold the lawyers responsible, and accountable, in addition to striking Donnelley’s testimony.

            The question is, what about the Mrs.? Since the husband was in court and heard testimony, did he communicate that with the Mrs which brings her testimony under scrutiny by the court? Inquiring minds want to know. 🙂

            right beside you, sister!

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy.

            right beside you, sister!

            Arm in arm, hand in hand, step by step.

            What the defense produced today in witnesses are folks who purchased their 15 minutes of fame.

            Just wait for rebuttal when the State plays GZ’s exemplar for the jury. 🙂

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @xena who says

            Just wait for rebuttal when the State plays GZ’s exemplar for the jury. 🙂

            that is my expectation as well.

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy.

            that is my expectation as well.

            LLMPapa uploaded this back in September. Looking at it again now, it’s prophetic.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes xena, it is prophetic. let it be so.

          • Puck says:

            The witness who goes on about the courtroom being a place for truth ends up being the easiest witness to nab for perjury. More than a bit ironic. What an idiot.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @puck

            yes indeedy! feather plucking insane, i tell you.

          • Leslie says:

            so true!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @My Forehead Tho (i love your name) says

            And wasn’t this the same witness who gave that long drawn out speech about having respect for the courtroom and how it was the place to tell the truth? This guy, like the rest of the people who befriended this murderer, should be ashamed of himself. I’m sure he’s not, though

            yup, that would be the one by golly! you know what — look back at footage of his testimony, he flushes easily (rosacea, like bill clinton, i suspect, being a rosacean myself). i kind of think he was ashamed. but now gets to be loud and proud of what a bigoted liar he is. i cannot wait.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          bettykath says

          Since he sat in court all last week, and the call was played multiple times, he’s a f!cking liar.

          ok, i’m going to poke some gentle fun in your direction, but didn’t you get upset with the name calling towards these witnesses?

          i think a good deal of it is completely warranted, personally. this dude was caught blatantly lying … what are the chances the rest of the bunch was too? their stories were eerily similar and completely lame.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @BettyKath
            @Fauxy

            The reason I want his testimony struck AND judicial action taken against Donnelly personally (geez – he took the OATH today!!! That’s supposed to stand for something!) is that I think it will reflect negatively on all those Zimmerman witness clowns this morning.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            Pmom says

            I think it will reflect negatively on all those Zimmerman witness clowns this morning.

            likewise! as i said, public shaming is a good start, but i want to see nelson do this right and leave teeth marks.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Fauxy:

            Re: ” i want to see nelson do this right and leave teeth marks.”

            AHA! Beauregard is en route and will be pleased to mentor the Fair Judge …

          • fauxmccoy says:

            might my flame tipped siamese, boris of the jungle accompany?

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Fauxy,

            Boris! Boris of the Jungle! Every Army needs a Boris – the master of guerilla warfare! A flamepoint Siamese is destined to conquer — in mysterious ways.

            A communique received this instant from Generalissimo Beauregard extends Field Marshal rank to Boris Flamepoint, along with a seasoned battalion en fourrageres..

            Gentlemen, present teeth!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @Pmom

            Gentlemen, present teeth!

            boris likey 🙂

          • bettykath says:

            I see evidence in his testimony that he lied. Liar is correct. f!cking is a bit over the top but at least I misspelled it 🙂 What I was objecting to were a number of uses of witch (also misspelled) and other animal names that were, imo, uncalled for. Sounded like the treehouse from what I’ve heard of that site. I’m not gone for good. Looks like others must have objected too b/c this thread is a lot more civil.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i hear ya – as i said, it was gentle fun and i think you get that. i do enjoy cursing, however uncouth it may be, but i generally refrain from name calling. in this case, fucking liar, filthy perjurer, damned scoundrel … i could go on, but you get the idea.

      • Donnelly is a NASTY DRUNKEN LIAR!! Just like papa Zimmerman SR! They probably know each other from gambling and he’s doing this for money! I know a drunken liar when I see one! the scumbags coming out of the woodwork ARE NOT a coincidence, birds of a feather flock together!

        every single person that said zim was screaming is a sleaze bag, that must be evident to this jury, they are not blind. people know scum when they see it!

        oh now he’s crying!! what bullshit! wow!

    • nocamo33 says:

      They are all snakes…

  52. PYorck says:

    I could not watch today, but there is something I don’t get. How is such an animation made to defense specifications not a huge piece of hearsay?

    Testimony in cartoon form seems like an awfully convenient way to avoid cross-examination.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      bingo!!!

      i cannot imagine that this thing will get introduced as evidence, but one never knows. it sounds like a horrific piece of nefarious tomfuckery. (pardon the language, but tomfoolery is too mild.)

    • Jun says:

      It’s the exact definition of hearsay because it’s based on what the defense counsel says, who based it on what Fogen says, and it has not been sworn under oath and cross examination as to how it was based and who should be crossed regarding it….

  53. Tee says:

    OMG! Race in American you gotta love it! Wow let’s show our true colors for once. If Trayvon was a white boy the whole America would be outraged as it should be. Watching hln makes me scared to be black in America. Maybe I should buy me a gun and my 18 yr old son a gun, teach him how to shoot so when a GZ or Michael Dunn approached him he can take care of himself. Why as a parent do I even have to have thoughts like this. It’s really sad

    • type1juve says:

      Yes I agree. I have to admit that I have already considered having my children arm themselves based on how this trial turns out. Unfortunately it may be something that black people will be forced to do. If Fogen walks it will be open season on young black males. I don’t want that for our country, we have to be better than that.

  54. Susan Moore says:

    Respectfully, I ask Prof. Leatherman to double-check this blog post, because I thought I heard something different. As I recall, the Judge said marijuana in the toxicology report would be admitted and experts could testify as to the possible effects. She stated that there is precedence for this, and it would be reversible error if she did not allow it. Moreover, I believe the judge refused to find prejudice caused by the defense’s admitted Richardson violation (which I thought was an erroneous ruling) regarding the Donnelly voice testimony. However, there was also an unconfirmed allegation that Donnelly improperly had been present in court during the testimony of other witnesses, and the Judge continued that so that it could be confirmed.

  55. ks says:

    The thing with Donnelly is OUTRAGEOUS! and if the prosecution had done it, it would have been an immediate mistrial.

    Donnelly sat in the courtroom, then listened to the tape and proffered testimony to the defense and then testified and THEN, the defense disclosed to the State. JN should grant the prosecution relief and sanction the defense.

    The animation thing is equally crazy. It’s the defense’s closing statement that they want to present as “evidence” before they close. Ridiculous.

    • Xena says:

      Donnelly not only sat in the courtroom and heard the testimony of other witnesses, but he also rolled his eyes at Mantei, sighed during Mantei’s argument, and stared at the other side of the room where Sybrina and Tracy sit. Now that I know it’s him, I paid closer attention to his expressions.

      • KA says:

        Xena, I heard he was there multiple days.

        Do we have evidence of that?

        • PiranhaMom says:

          Do we have evidence? Yes, yes, yes – I saw him multiple days; always the same seat. Has a big head. Very visible. See last week’s videos!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @Pmom

            he looked oddly familiar to me as well, but you made such a convincing argument i waited hours to say ‘me too, me too!’

            seriously, good call and having strength of your convictions, because i had some degree of self doubt.

          • Tzar says:

            anyone know the other days he was in court
            I started looking for him in last Friday’s tape but no dice so far

    • fauxmccoy says:

      AGREED!!!!!!

      (sorry for yelling but sometimes i have to break down and use the shift key and i feel like yelling dang it!)

      • Puck says:

        you go fauxy lady

        • fauxmccoy says:

          **smooch**
          😉

          • Puck says:

            ooh i just grinned and got all mushy inside…

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh good! now, we ought to stop before we make others ill. (my fingers type no, my mind says ……..)

          • Puck says:

            yes, let us stop, we can pick it up tomorrow

          • fauxmccoy says:

            but soft! what light through yonder window breaks? 😉
            may you have lovely mid summers night dreams

          • Puck says:

            temazepam-induced sleep, perchance to dream

            (no, really, i’ve been taking it for years, it’s awesome)

          • fauxmccoy says:

            (clonazepam here….. shhhhhh, it’s our secret)

          • Puck says:

            i used to take that… comes on slow, long-lasting, comes down slow… but i prefer valium (diazepam) because it works faster and is more happy-happy… i’ve tried so many benzos — i always tell people they’re like fine wines, each with its own subtleties. i’m serious. temazepam is widely known to be one of the most euphoric among them. it’s true.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @puck

            sublingual clonazepam does it for me. there is a stash of doc scripted meds on my nightstand that are worth about $3k on the street per month, if i wanted to coexist with unbearable pain, which i do not.

          • Puck says:

            i’m on six meds but only the benzos would have any street value…

    • Trained Observer says:

      Can this blatant violation be addressed by court with anything other than striking the testimony? Can he be fined. Can MOM be sanctioned and fined. Or maybe drawn and quartered?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @trained observer

        donnelly perjured himself, plain as day. he can and should be expelled as a witness. it was o’mara’s witness and o’mara had a duty to ensure that his witnesses were not in the court room, i expect there will be sanctions.

        we know that nelson is not pleased with their antics and she does not have a reputation for letting things slide.

      • abbyj1 says:

        Let’s go with that last, double-barrelled suggestion, T.O. I like that one best of all.

    • nocamo33 says:

      I doubt she will sanction the defense. She is trying to maintain the “air” of not having picked sides. By that I mean, if she feels strongly one way or the other, she needs to maintain her composure so as to not seem biased. I think this will slide by and maybe have the testimony thrown out based on the motion the PROS submitted.

      • Xena says:

        @nocamo33.

        I doubt she will sanction the defense. She is trying to maintain the “air” of not having picked sides. By that I mean, if she feels strongly one way or the other, she needs to maintain her composure so as to not seem biased.

        Judge Nelson will appear bias if she doesn’t find the defense in contempt of court. This is not a matter of interpretation. It’s disobedience of an order of the court that was entered pursuant to Florida statute.

  56. fauxmccoy says:

    Professor — could you please address the issue of potential (in fact likely) violation of the sequestration rule with evidence that mr. donnelly was clearly in the courtroom a number of days and effectively perjured himself regarding his testimony of hearing the 911 death shriek only 48 hours ago?

    i know that one possibility is disqualification of the witness, also that had this been the prosecution’s witness a mistrial could have been declared. i think this makes it twice now that the defense has conducted themselves in such a manner (i.e., if the prosecution had been at fault, a mistrial could be declared).

  57. Xena says:

    Tsk,tsk,tsk. We’ve known for a long time that the defense has no respect for Statute, but they went over the top today when calling Mr. Donnelley to the witness stand. He was in the courtroom on June 26, 2013, two days after Judge Nelson entered order for witness sequestration.

    • Woow! says:

      How did you post the video and insert the words “This Guy”?

      • Xena says:

        @Woow! How did I post the video and insert the words “This Guy”? Very quickly. That’s why it’s off. LOL!!

        It’s a screenshot of a video frame.

        • Puck says:

          What font is that? (the main text, not the caption)

          • Xena says:

            @Puck.

            What font is that? (the main text, not the caption)

            Oh heck Puck!! So make me open the program so I can spell it right, why don’t cha? LOL!! Hold on ….

            Perpetua.

          • Puck says:

            Cool, thanks. I’ve been looking for a new, more contemporary-looking serif font for my documents, having bid farewell to Garamond after over 8 years. I settled on Calluna, but I might reconsider.

          • Puck says:

            Also, I’m unhappy with Calluna italics. They have that quality of appearing simply as the regular font slanted, rather than a specialized set of italic characters.

          • Xena says:

            @ Puck. i haven’t looked at Calluna italics. The next time I open the program, I’ll take a look. Having worked in the court system for so long where Times New Romans or Courier are the only two font options, I tend to levitate to fonts with a “tail” because they are easier on the eyes.

          • Puck says:

            by tail do you mean serif?

          • Xena says:

            @Puck

            by tail do you mean serif?

            Yep. Always got confused over sans serif and serif, but know the right ones have a tail.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      thank you so much xena. by the by, mr IT geek at my side says you make great videos 🙂

      • Xena says:

        @fauxmccoy. OMG. That is so humbling. Please tell Mr. IT geek that he brought happy tears to my eyes.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          will do. he’s young and handsome … and all mine 🙂

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy. Oh geez. And all who want to talk to me are old and ugly and already belong to someone else. LOL.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @xena

            And all who want to talk to me are old and ugly and already belong to someone else. LOL.

            oh, that does sound dreary 😦

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy. Sorry. I was kidding. Don’t feel bad. Please forgive me. The truth is that there’s not another man on God’s green earth who can stand in the shoes of my late husband.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            understood. i know that when mr. geek and i said ‘until death do us part’, we meant it. at the end of our lives, we will have known how it feels to be loved, cherished and trusted and no other relationship would be necessary.

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy. Bless your hearts. May you have long, longer, and longest lives together.

    • brilliantly done…music et all…” by
      zimmer” wow!

    • PiranhaMom says:

      THANK YOU Xena. I really appreciate you doing this. I should have e-mailed you first!

      Donnelly was brazen about this. Kept emphasizing he knew the (court) rules. What a blowhard!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Good stuff, Xena. Will the court do anything about this?

      • Puck says:

        I think it pretty much has to. This is incontrovertible evidence. The question is, did the defense know Donnelly had been in the courtroom? If they did, first of all, that’s really stupid because everything is on video, but more importantly, they violated the witness sequestration rule (“the rule” as Xena pointed out).

        • Cercando Luce says:

          Fogen knew he was there. Judge Nelson should ask him! “Mr. Fogen, did you know Mr. Donnelly was present in the courtroom?” And Fogen will reply, “No, Your Honor.”

          • Puck says:

            I can see how MOM & Westingtime might not have known, but this is one of Fogen’s “friends,” so he must have known.

          • Xena says:

            @Puck. The State deposed Donnelley. That means the defense attorneys, or at least one of them, was present.

            Why do I get the feeling that we’re going to hear “potted palm” again? 🙂

            I find it interesting that GZ began his case by sitting like a potted palm while ShelLIE misrepresented her knowledge of the money, and is ending his case by sitting like a potted palm as his friend violated the witness sequestration order of the court. The first time, he ended up in jail. It’s somewhat of a premonition that his trial will end with a finding of guilty of 2nd degree murder.

          • Puck says:

            But didn’t they depose him only this past weekend? In any case, tomorrow morning will be interesting. I really hope JN gets super pissed and just goes off on the defense and even Fogen for playing the potted palm yet again. Is she allowed to address him directly and ask him questions?

          • Xena says:

            @Puck.

            But didn’t they depose him only this past weekend?

            Maybe, but he had to be on the defense’s witness list before trial began. If the defense knew he had been in court during trial and added him as a witness at the last minute, then they should suffer the consequences of getting a witness out of the courtroom.

            Is she allowed to address him directly and ask him questions?

            That, I don’t know, but anxiously await for morning and trial to start.

          • Malisha says:

            He’ll say “nossir.”

        • amsterdam1234 says:

          He was sitting in one of the reserved seats for GZ’s family and friends. Public seats are on the other side of the court room behind the Fulton/Martin family. In order for him to sit there, someone on the defense side, must have signed off on him being there that day.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I definitely caught him on the 25th on part 4 of day 2. He was sitting there during all of Jane Surdyka’s testimony. That is especially aggrieving, if you consider the fact that Jane testified that she thought the high pitch scream belonged to a younger person, and Donnely testified unsollicited, that he heard 250 lbs men, sqeeling like a girl.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I sure hope that he is thrown in jail and his bogus testimony struck! This is bullshit. I thought I had seen him because he was a distraction because he looked like a drunk dirty old man.

  58. Putting in TM used marijuana in the past will be the reason for reasonable doubt, its slimy of omoron to go that route, they have no other defense but to do this, and how can an expert say that was fogen when the judge denied the prosecution, I’m really starting to believe this case was put on to keep the up roar down from AA, the prosecution “hey we tried”.

    • Mary says:

      how will minuscule amts of thc in trayvon’s blood make anyone think that that means he got aggressive? everybody knows somebody who smoked or does smoke,, and knows it makes you incredibly mellow and chill. otoh, adderall, not so much.

    • Xena says:

      The State gets to object and present its own expert during rebuttal. O’Mara and Vanilla Ice Cream West might wish that they never “went there.” It will make them appear too desperate and reaching for straws.

      They would like to give credibility to GZ’s description that “he looks like he’s on drugs or something.” Would a reasonable person get out of the safety of their vehicle and follow someone under the influence, unless they assumed that whatever they were high on slowed them down and caused them to be defenseless?

    • Malisha says:

      If so, it will have been done to show that the SPD really had a point when they refused to charge Fogen, because after all, they had an unwinnable case. This whole thing could have been done in protection of the corrupt police department.

      If that is so it will be important to really examine the whole thing, every single piece of it, every which way, as a post mortem, because although nothing will be done to punish those who helped murder Trayvon Martin and who helped cover up the crime and who thereby helped to throw this country, in a single heave, back into Jim Crowe, we should dissect it and we should name names and we should figure out every single piece of this rotting corpse before it’s buried in our now inevitable demise. Nobody better to be able to do that than us, here on this blog.

  59. Jun says:

    Okay, why is the defense allowed to sneak in “expert” audio testimony and then it was decided it was not allowed?

    Personally I think this is a dirty trick and the defense has pulled so much of this crap

    I personally feel that because of this the state should be allowed to bring their audio experts to unring the bell

    and also show that the defense were the ones who claimed the sample was not good enough to test yet they came in with someone claiming that it could be tested

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      I agree that was dirty and I couldn’t believe JN allowed it and then ruled it was not prejudicial to the prosecution… Mantei did not mention the fact he used his military battle field experience to pose as an expert but he should have. He argued only with regard to the fact that he had not mentioned listing to the audio during deposition… I am trying to keep a level head, but a big part of me feels like the State is fumbling a lot of issues… for instance, they allowed all that back door character evidence today and didn’t fight hard to get bad character evidence in… maybe they have something up their sleeve, but I will believe it when I see it..

      • bettykath says:

        Considering that Donnelly (or whatever his name is) has been in court every day, he committed perjury when he said he never heard the tape before Saturday. He’s familiar with court procedure so evading sequestration of witnesses was some sort of deliberate violation.

        • KA says:

          Also, that tape was played several times…he had to have heard it in court this past week. Not only was he not sequestered as he should have, he lied too about hearing it.

          Let’s get a perjury charge.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @BettyKath,

          I started screaming about this fraud the moment he sat in the box this a.m.

          Repeatedly. Very bad temper, I know, but it’s frustrating to have to wait until some intern picks up our posts here to make a point. We have no direct link to the court.

          I want his testimony struck to re-emphasize to the jury — again — how sleazy fogen’s team is.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            testimony struck from the record and jailed immediately for perjury, please.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Fauxy

            Donnelly: “testimony struck from the record and jailed immediately for perjury, please.”

            He was so blatant about it!

            Is this more disrespect of the Court and Judge Nelson?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            Pmom asks

            Is this more disrespect of the Court and Judge Nelson?

            hell if i know — i expected a judicial circus based on location, location, location, but this is taking center ring under the big tent. someone is flying through the air on a trapeze without a net.

        • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

          I agree, but will the State fight to get him for perjury? They have been letting things like this fall by the way side… It is circulating the web about Donnally being in court prior to testimony, we shall see what they fight about in tomorrows pre-jury events

          • KA says:

            It took them two days…but they also filed a motion on the ice cream incident. I think they will on this too.

            The bigger fish to fry tonight is the preparation for TSH testimony for tomorrow. They can snag the fraud in a few days.

        • Malisha says:

          Donnelly did lie, deliberately, and did violate the rules deliberately. I don’t know that there is a way around that.

          Therefore I think the ruling on this matter will tell us whether or not this is an honest trial.

      • gbrbsbg says:

        I’m with you on that, I will believe it when I see it too.

        Apart from playing audio expert, with his explanations, Donnolly seemed to be comparing the screams and a scuffle in a suburban back yard to open “combat” on the battlefields of Vietnam, and two minor lacerations and a few bumps, with soldiers getting limbs blown off and bodies ripped apart.

        The beauty parade of family and friends who, of course, not only absolutely recognised the “screams” (verbal and non verbal because of all the witnesses and attys only Donnolly mentioned there were “screams” as well as verbal utterances), as all coming from GZ, they also got the chance to say what a lovely boy he was.

        Poor Tracey did his best to explain why he had not been sure about it being Trayvon’s voice, and Serino didn’t actually say he had said “No”, only that he had seen him mouth the word and shake his head. But Singleton testified to Tracey saying “No, it wasn’t my son’s voice” or similar that so not too good for the State there either.

        And the motions didn’t fare much better, as drug use, striking Donnolly’s testimony, the CG animated re-enactment, etc. went mainly in the defence’s favour, so the State, who has not yet had anyone put in a word for Trayvon, now has to contend with his having smoked MJ, and who knows if the “impairment” they want to show will not open the door to more!

        So, apart from MOM admitting there were “voices in the background” during the first few minutes of SO’s direct, but which I’m sure went unnoticed because he corrected it to “or voice in the background” immediately, yep, I’d say a depressing day for the State indeed, and at this time can’t really see how it gets that much better, unless, as you say, the State has something up their sleeve!

  60. Rachael says:

    I missed a lot because I had to work off and on but is Officer Singleton lying?!!! Gads

    • anita says:

      Yes that bitch is a liar, I’ve had more than enough of these cops & their games.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      rachael asks

      I missed a lot because I had to work off and on but is Officer Singleton lying?!!! Gads

      in this crowd, it is almost easier to ask ‘who is not lying?’. i’ll take tracy martin for that question.

  61. diary73 says:

    Wait. I’m confused. Did Judge Nelson allow testimony about Trayvon’s marijuana use or not? I thought she allowed it, based on news reports. Above, Professor Leatherman said she denied the motion to reconsider it.

    Been on the road all day traveling from Orlando and missed everything.

    Diary

      • diary73 says:

        Professor Leatherman, please respond if you are available. Did she or didn’t she allow it?

        • Rachael says:

          I thought she did.

        • anita says:

          Excuse me, I’m not prof Leatherman, but I’m sure JN allowed the pot evidence.

        • type1juve says:

          I’m pretty sure she allowed it.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @diary

          not the prof, of course, but i am fairly certain it was allowed to be entered on legal grounds. i cannot fault the judge for following the law an preventing an over turn on appeal.

        • Vickis Smith says:

          @diary73 She did allow it’; by law she had no choice. I brought that up the other day when I heard him state he’d changed his testimony.

          Let’s just hope that the jurors will be instructed as to why that isn’t the issue here- he could have been sky-high or sky low but Zimmerman is responsible for his death.

          I heard something interesting today: the NRA has in its rules that if you call in to the police and are legally armed, you must immediately reveal this; had George Zimmerman done this, the police would have been there very quickly and one life wouldn’t have been snuffed out, with the other one’s ruined.

          BTW, I’m pasting something re aggression and marijuana use- just one person’s experience: The question was whether or not mj causes aggressive behavior:

          “Definately! [sic]
          I smoked cannabis morning, day and night for 5 years. I was fine, relaxed and chilled whilst stoned, but when I wasn’t, I would get angry and overreact to stupid things. I’m not an aggressive person at all, so it isn’t that. I quit 2 years ago and am so glad I did. I don’t get angry and overreact to things anymore (and I never did before smoking gange either). I’m calm and much happier. For the five years I smoked it, I would be adamant that a) I wasn’t addicted and b) It made me calmer and not angry or aggressive at all. It took stopping smoking it to make me realise just what the effect of it was on me and that in fact the opposite of what I had believed was true. Not only that, but it made me so lazy, I lost track of all my hopes and dreams. Now I’ve sorted my life out, got off my arse, gone travelling and become a primary teacher. However, my boyfriend still smokes it and I see the same things in him as I used to have. He snaps over silly things and gets moody, he then smokes a spliff and it’s all fine again. Sorry to go on, just got a lot to say.”

          • MedicineBear says:

            “I heard something interesting today: the NRA has in its rules that if you call in to the police and are legally armed, you must immediately reveal this . . . .”

            Vickis~ I have been making this point for over a year.

            If fogen was calling NEN as NW he should have identified himself as NW (as he did on prior NEN calls — why not on this one? Implies premeditation on this call). If fogen was operating as NW he should NOT have been armed.

            If fogen was NOT acting as NW, acting as a “private citizen” and licensed to carry a concealed weapon (CCW) as a private citizen, he should have notified NEN that he was armed.

            It is highly important (although may not be specifically codified in law in all states) to notify LE (law enforcement) that you have a CCW license and are carrying a weapon TO PROTECT OFFICERS and TO PREVENT CCWs FROM BEING MISTAKENLY SHOT.

            LE Officers need to be notified that someone has a gun when they respond to a scene. CCWs should be educated in this as part of their licensing requirements. As a CCW, I know that if I am pulled over by an LEO in my car that I give my license, registration, and CCW permit to the officer, put my hands in plain sight on the steering wheel, and let the LEO know I am armed.

            Surprising a LEO with an undeclared firearm may get a CCW killed. THAT’S why fogen should have told NEN that he was armed — so the responding officer could have been notified that a firearm was on the scene.

            fogen KNEW this, and yet didn’t tell NEN. Notice the proof of his foreknowledge in his own statements: (1) On scene (AFTER the LEOs had been notified of shots fired), he immediately raises his hands and tells Ofc. Smith that he is carrying a gun, (2) one of his statements was that he was IN FEAR OF BEING SHOT because he knew LEOs were showing up and he was armed.

            fogen didn’t identify himself to NEN as NW or that he was CCW and was armed. These omissions of fact demonstrate some degree of premeditation.

            What would NEN have told fogen if he had appropriately informed LE that he was armed? Would he have been told to stay in his shtruck until officers arrived? Or is there no NEN protocol because LEOs don’t mind showing up at a scene where there are concealed guns that they don’t know about?

      • Mary says:

        if she did allow it, does that mean we can hear about the cocktail of drugs fogen takes?

        • type1juve says:

          Probably not, the SPD made sure they didn’t test the killer.

          • abbyj1 says:

            type1, but his use of meds wasn’t a one-time thing. This is what he was taking every single day. One would be fair in assuming that he had that same cocktail of drugs in him that night, just as he did every other night.

            Conversely, if he failed to take his medications, that could be an indication of his further instability. I hope the prosecution wipes up the floor with him on this one.

          • Leslie says:

            Those were my thoughts too Abby further up the thread in my tangent.

  62. anita says:

    Cielo I think you’re mistaken, the pot is coming into evidence, am I confused? We all gotta calm down. Hope this post goes into the correct spot,I’ve had trouble on the last thread.Damn, I’m always behind. Love all you Guys!

  63. Trained Observer says:

    OFF TOPIC & REPOSTED FROM PREVIOUS: A coupla days ago someone on this blog mentioned To Kill A Mockingbird and similarities to this case. I responded that reclusive Harper Lee was getting up there, but what potential for a semblance of a sequel.

    Little did I know that Vanity Fair would land in mailbox today with a major piece entitled To Pluck a Mockingbird, focusing on Harper Lee’s lawsuit against an agent who had, for a time, latched on to the copyright for her American classic.

    As told, it’s a complicated saga — with the bad guy also involved with John Steinbeck’s estate and Mary Higgins Clark’s body of work.

    And as usual, there’s a Florida angle, with sketchy Miami lawyer Gerald Posner (a former contributer to the Daily Beast) involved.

    Harper Lee, reportedly nearly blind and suffering short-term memory lapses, is not doing as well health-wise as her 101-year-old lawyer sister Alice, who continued to practice until a couple of years ago.

    Online link to the story not yet available, it seems, but likely will be in a few days.

    If you need relief from Fogen trial tension and want to enjoy a legal thriller where it appears justice will prevail, this could be for you …

    • fauxmccoy says:

      thank you so much for the tip — i will be sure to look for that.

    • Beverly says:

      The other legal thrilled was the past Saturday book Salon at Firedoglake about law suits growing our of disasters and other trouble in W. Va coal mining….Really good.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thanks for the heads up – I’d heard she was suing her old agent, didn’t know there was new info.

    • sadlyyes says:

      it ter i…..Tray is the beautiful mocking bird,foagy must pay for his sin

  64. cielo62 says:

    Those fuckwads at Yahoo wrote that the marijuana evidence WAS going to be admissible! Can’t they get ANYTHING right??

    • fauxmccoy says:

      cielo — that was my impression after court today, did i make a major error? dear lord, i do not want to review any of today’s hot mess in the court room.

      • gbrbsb says:

        That was my opinion too, faux. I was sure I heard that tomorrow they are bringing in an expert to testify about MJ use and it’s effects so to what would that go if they can’t say Trayvon was using.

        Anything about Donnolly (or whatever his name is) being in court sitting on GZ’s side prior to testifying… even TL’s got that bit and the twitter pic of him sitting there at least on one day.

        I’m still on a wing and a prayer with this because something is up today as most of my posts don’t show up today… If you get it Eureka, if not, dang, and I will see if tomorrow it works.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i am so sorry you are having access problems. this may sound redundant or basic, but have you tried clearing cache and cookies as a start?

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I notice that the long trial threads sometimes run a code that slows everything down. Sometimes it helps to change browsers.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            there is a reason why i use both a flash blocking and script blocking add on to whichever browser i am using. it cuts down on that stuff significantly.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Yes, my add-on usually asks if I want to stop it, although sometimes it struggles and burps when the comments pile up.

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      Last I heard it was, I watched the end of court session and the judge let it in due to a Fla law statute that makes it some type of irrevocable error if a toxicology report is not made available to the jury if it has any relevance no matter the magnitude.. JN later stated that the State would be able to further depose the Dr. Testifying about the potential impairment caused by pot and would be able to cross examine and call further rebuttal witnesses regarding the issue… overall there was nothing the State could do about it…. I believe it will be a double edged sword for the defense given that the amount found in TM’s system was very insignificant and any impairment would likely make him less aggressive instead of more aggressive…

      • Mary says:

        i remember that the amount in trayvon’s blood indicated he last smoked it around 5 days previous.

        which pretty much makes him a normal teenager, imo.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Double edge sword is right. They don’t know when to quit, but it might be a good thing for the State!

        • nocamo33 says:

          By these standards, if Trayvon deserved to be shot in the heart, I deserved to be drug through the streets, burned, had my head cut off, my manhood massaged by a hot clothing iron and my parts strewn across the globe. Sorry about that. I am frustrated. I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone where they accuse one of their neighbors of being an alien. How in the world can the defense of Zimmerman be so widespread and deeply seeded and the villian-ization of Trayvon be widely accepted as fact. Somebody pinch me, I want out of this nightmare. Now!!

          • MedicineBear says:

            I’m telling you — either this case exposes and excises the cancer of corruption that has metastasized to all our social structures OR we’re just screwed beyond redemption and it’s time for Asteroid Etch-a-Sketch!

          • nocamo33 says:

            Trayvon died for a reason, if not to educate those of us with the wool down on their eyes (me). The actual cause of Trayvon’s murder is the red pill.

    • bettykath says:

      It is admissible. JN ruled in favor of the tox report coming in. Leaving it out could be a reversible error on appeal. Better safe than sorry.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes. I think JN is wise to allow it – I dont’ think it will help the defense that much and it’ll avoid trouble down the road.

        • abbyj1 says:

          Two sides, I’ve been thinking of it all afternoon, also. JN is probably wise–like you say–to allow it in to avoid trouble down the road, so there’s that.

          What it leaves me wondering is whether that road travels in both directions. Would entering the tox report for Trayvon necessarily mean that the State could then provide the jury a list of the wild-ass medications that Fogen takes regularly? Wouldn’t the door be opened then?

      • gblock says:

        I think it’s really unfortunate. Seems like the defense is really scraping bottom if they discuss it. Even if Trayvon was under the influence that evening (and it still sounds like he wasn’t), and CAC somehow successfully noticed it, how does that justify chasing him and accosting him? But unfortunately, discussing it may be feeding into the prejudices of some jurors.

    • Sleuth says:

      Yeah, it sucks, and unfortunately, it’s true. 😦

  65. Two sides to a story says:

    I don’t see why Donnelly’s testimony would be important one way or another. I don’t even believe he’s George’s personal friend from watching him – perhaps a friend of the family who is trying to pull strings. He’s lying too.

    I had a hard time watching today – couldn’t sit still for all the lying half the time and busy with other things at other times. I did at least catch Tracy Martin’s testimony live – he and Serino come off as most believable. I saw a bit of Singleton – her empathy is credible but if Serino doesn’t recall her being present when Tracy was confused about whether the screams were Trayvon’s, then I wonder if she was. Serino seems alert enough to know for certain.

    • Trained Observer says:

      I think John boy and the wifey are political groupies with ties to Wolfie.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @TwoSides’

      The reason it is important to strike Mr. Donnelly’s testimony is (a) that strike would uphold the law, and (b) that strike would show the jury how sleazy the defense strategy is.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I understand the significance of the strike, but don’t see how his testimony is particularly strong. You can see he has ties to someone, He may be some acquaintance to Fogen or his family, but he isn’t any good friend of Fogen’s as he stated. That’s preposterous.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @two sides

          as i see it, strength of testimony comes from
          1. his wartime veteran status
          2. his ‘lay expert’ testimony on death shrieks
          3. his current position in their society

          all of which would normally add weight and credibility in the minds of many jurors….. had he not perjured himself.

          • nocamo33 says:

            Yes. Exactly. A “credible” man of standing with an emotionally charged testimony (however irrelevant some of it was) can sway some. Especially if we give the jury credit for trying to be open and objective. Their job is to try to see why a witness should be believed, no?

          • KA says:

            I agree…he is being called in the media realm the “strongest witness for the defense to date”

            He used 45 year old Vietnam war experience to somehow convince everyone he was an audio expert because he heard “solders scream”?

            His position of a Physicians assist made it sound clinical.

            I think JN was wrong today to not find prejudice to the State. If he was not going to focus on the audio originally (which I wondered what other purpose he had except a character witness), why would the State even know to care about his military experience?

            What is clear though, is he lied and the circumstances of it show that it was intentional. To believe he approached MOM on sat and listened “alone in his office the first time” is bunk.

            He was on the witness list (for an unknown reason) and knew he shouldn’t be in there. The issue is, they can strike it, but will the jury know why? Striking it does not discredit it to people who have no idea what is going on…

          • fauxmccoy says:

            well, nelson’s ruling was based on the fact that the state did depose him and his military experience should have been probed further by them. i may not dig it, but i can accept it.

            however, since he obviously perjured himself and it will be shown on video at 8:30 AM tomorrow EDT, i would bet money that he’s looking at jail time and the defense case will suffer. i will laugh my ass off.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Fauxy,

            You can bet that O’Mara will try to take credit for the defense reporting to the court/prosecution that their witness had been in the courtroom on prior days.

            What O’Mara WON’T admit is that their intern found this out by monitoring the Leatherman Law Blog.

            I hope Judge Nelson doesn’t give this guy some kind of a break because the defense “fessed up.”

            Donnelly was sitting within 10 ft. of O’Mara for days. I would be curious if Judge Nelson noticed it, as soon as he was escorted into the courtroom.

            I was stunned to see this guy enter. Lost lots of video-watching time, as I was writing to get my complaint out. Missed most of his schmaltzy performance.

            I’m getting suspicious of some of these self-proclaimed heroes …

          • fauxmccoy says:

            Pmom says

            I’m getting suspicious of some of these self-proclaimed heroes …

            no scrit! i think if the state can effectively knock one down, that the jury must question all of their strangely similar ‘stories’. i know i would.

          • amsterdam1234 says:

            He was not sitting in the public section. He was sitting in the section assigned to the defendant. He must have passed some kind of approval, in order to be sitting there.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes, he was in the zimmerman family section. the defense is ultimately responsible for their witnesses, there is no question.

          • LeaNder says:

            fauxy et al, are you sure he was in there? Was he accidentally in there during the Frye hearing? Personally I am not sure if there are not many elder men that look similar. A link and an update on your knowledge would help.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            we are positive at this point that he was present more than one day. that is contempt of court and an immediately jailable offense. there would also be a perjury question if the 911 tape was played in court.

          • LeaNder says:

            another question. Don’t the people in charge of letting people into the court have the witness lists? Thus would he have been able to get in during the trial? On the other hand up to the jury selection they surely could watch proceedings just as Shellie, junior and the Z family could, which would include the Frye hearing.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            leander asks

            Don’t the people in charge of letting people into the court have the witness lists?

            although i do not know for sure, it is a tightly controlled area, so i would assume so.

          • LeaNder says:

            Thanks fauxy, for both answers.

            All in all we see a pretty impressive line up of former military men or men related to the military industrial complex if I add Doddington. Accident?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            it’s all a put on to the jury. jurors tend to add an extra level of ‘star quality’ to law enforcement and military brass, unwarranted in my opinion. i expect you know the answer here, you sly devil you. 😉

          • Ann says:

            I missed something,, how did he perjure himself?

        • Rachael says:

          But it goes back to that whole credibility issue. If GZ’s lies are proven, why should anyone believe ANYTHNG he says? People may think the defense witnesses are lying, but once they have proof, it kind of makes….well you know

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @TwoSides,

          You gotta be kidding, right? (Or insidious,)

          Anybody that comes over regularly to my office to mooch snacks & sodas better be a damned good friend!

          Anybody who takes me to the local haberdashery and suits me out with appropriate threads for my national public appearance IS a DAMNED good friend!

          But you already knew that, right, TwoSides?

          You’re just sticking you oar into logic and civility on this blog.

          Again.

    • Rachael says:

      His testimony may not be important but striking it is. He lied. And if the jury has to strike his testimony, even if they don’t know why but are just told to, they will know something is up and see the defense for the disgusting slime they are. And if he is suspect, maybe all the rest will be too.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Rachael –

        Yes, striking is more valuable than his testimony. Especially if threre’s no information why. Mystery will compound the impact.

        Hey, wasn’t Martha Stewart JAILED for perjury? It wasn’t that she protected her stock assets, it was because she lied.

        • Xena says:

          @PiranhaMOM. Donnelly could have perjured his testimony, but that’s not the issue to come before the court. Donnelly and the defense attorneys violated an order of the court. That order is based on Florida statute. He could have stood before the court and recited the Declaration of Independence. The point is that since he sat in the courtroom during trial, he should not have been called as a witness.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Xena,

            You make this very clear. Thanks for that explanation. I just knew that it was against the rules. That was such a huge issue on the first day of trial, when O’Mara tried to prevent Sybrina and Tracey from sitting in the courtroom.

          • Xena says:

            @PMom.

            That was such a huge issue on the first day of trial, when O’Mara tried to prevent Sybrina and Tracey from sitting in the courtroom.

            Sure was, then the Zims retaliate by sending John Donnelley to sit in the courtroom, although he is a witness.

      • roderick2012 says:

        Rachael: His testimony may not be important but striking it is. He lied. And if the jury has to strike his testimony,

        Will the jury be told why his testimony is being stricken?

  66. cielo62 says:

    There is a very special place in HELL for these bozos.

  67. ada4750 says:

    How can Serino and Singleton could be sure that is was GZ when they had no idea of Trayvon’s voice?

    Never came to their mind, that there was maybe two voices?

    I can hardly support all this.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i think you may be confused. singleton and serino did not testify as to who was screaming, rather they testified as to what they say occurred when the recording was played for tracy martin.

      • bettykath says:

        What’s interesting is that neither Serino nor Martin was aware of the presence of Singleton.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          all very interesting as well. if i could set my own bias aside and attempt to think as a juror, i think i would have to give the victim’s father benefit of doubt in terms of conflicting testimony, simply because that of LE does not match.

        • Sleuth says:

          Same thing a posted on the afternoon thread. Did Serino forget she was nearby? Did one of them perjure themselves?

        • gblock says:

          At that time, Tracy Martin had probably not met Singleton yet.

        • LeaNder says:

          betty, fauxy, Sleuth, concerning Singleton, I am wondering to what extend Santiago influenced her take on matter. He ordered her to SPD for the interview being her superior at the time. I also seem to vaguely remember that he was among the SPD officers who sided early with the defense that Serino never showed during the meeting he was going to file a murder 1/manslaughter charge.

          Singleton also added the really bad time line of events to Serino’s interview.

          Concerning the scream, I was wondering why prosecution never challenged O’Mara’s statement that at the time Fogen had his interview he had no idea what evidence the investigation on the scene had turned up. Strictly he only needed to know that the screams alerted some neighbors, and that Trayvon wasn’t able to testify any more.

          • Malisha says:

            Why didn’t they bring in Erwin?
            Oh I know — because of his connection to Osterman, which cannot be hidden.
            Erwin chose to stay out of the trial, altogether, although he could well have testified about hearing Tracy Martin say something that didn’t matter at all, just to confuse jurors.

            Hmmm, I wonder what his thing is.

          • LeaNder says:

            Yes, strange given their concentration on him. At least two depositions.

          • LeaNder says:

            Yes, strange given their concentration on him. At least two depositions.

    • KateW says:

      it needs to be played that Serino was leading the defendant. Comments like “That is you screaming” is not unbiased detective work. Really shows poor law enforcement training and tact.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        I got a feeling that Serino was not really trying to find the truth but trying to help the killer with his story of what happened. I felt that way as the recordings came out. Even when Singleton would catch the killer in a lie and then ask more questions, oftentimes Serino would cut her off from reaching a point with the killers lie.

        JMO

        • Ann says:

          When O’Mara was cross-examining Serino — during the time he was on stand as a prosecution witness — O’Mara was asking him about his “tough approach” (don’t know the words he used) that night at the station when the interview took place.

          He was suggesting that Serino’s heart wasn’t in the interrogation but that it was a job requirement. He used the term “job security” suggesting if he wanted to keep his job he had to play tough with Zimmerman. Serino began to object and O’Mara changed it to “job description” or “job requirement” — something like that.

          But it seemed like a Freudian slip when he said “job security” and I wonder if anybody noticed or if I’m making something out of nothing.

      • LeaNder says:

        KateW, whatever way he would have asked him, wouldn’t have mattered much. All Fogen needed to know was that the second person on the scene wasn’t able to talk anymore. So specific questions really did not matter in the larger scenario.

        What I think the jury will get nevertheless, at least I hope, is that the defense imposes different standards on witnesses that claim it is Trayvon versus the rigidly sure people that all immediately knew it was George. Conolly (sp?) was especially vicious in that context. I seriously doubt his Vietnam experience. To what extend did he simply move into the direction of the scene of a vicious fight or an extended attack. It feels his special example completely contradicts his own statement. A 250 pounds man screamed like a little girl. Did that man listen to the voice experts? I am pretty sure he did.

      • Malisha says:

        Serino told witnesses what they saw. What could possibly be wrong in that? After all, he’s a cop, he has the authority…

  68. Big Willie says:

    What are you doing around here?

  69. Ian S says:

    I can’t for the life of me understand why no one is emphasizing that the screaming ends with the shot. That IS definitive in deciding who is screaming.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Ian, I believe Singleton touched on that today with an artfully composed sentence that may have been too subtle for jurors to pick up on … then again maybe not.

      (Am going to review her testimony tonight to make sure I heard it right. Her hostility from last week was not as evident today.)

      • Rachael says:

        Really? I thought it was!

        • Trained Observer says:

          Rachael — Am having difficulty finding Day 10 on You Tube, but that’s interesting you felt she was unchanged. (I had been surprised by her demeanor last week.) .

          • Two sides to a story says:

            She seemed softer today to me.

          • Rachael says:

            I didnt really see her last time but I thought she just outright lied.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @rachael
            @TO

            singleton is clearly a mixed bag of tricks and an obviously conflicted woman. the less time she is on the stand, the better.

          • nocamo33 says:

            croakerqueen has all the vids…

          • Trained Observer says:

            She may well have lied, but if so, she did it with more warmth 🙂

          • LeaNder says:

            TM, wftv, a channel fauxy once suggested to me, if I get matters correctly has a complete collection of video’s of the trial. Your impression Singleton was softer yesterday than during her first trial may have been created by several factors. First she wore uniform during her fist, and then she modified her statement about Tracy’s statement, by telling he was lowering his head and crying and had to be comforted by Brandy Green. I am wondering why she was just as Leon Ciesla in the surrounding but not on the actual scene. At least Tracy did not even remember her presence.

            Concerning this:

            Judge Nelson also issued an order late this afternoon denying the defense motion to reconsider its order prohibiting the defense from mentioning that trace amounts of marijuana were found in the Trayvon Martin’s blood sample.

            Maybe I got it wrong, but I understand that the changed opinion of Dr. Bao, the medical examiner, brought it in by stating he changed his opinion on matters. Judge Nelson allowed it in since keeping it out would mean it could be used for an appeal, which would result in a new trial.

            That’s what bothers me most.

          • Malisha says:

            Two Sides, she seemed “softer” today because she heard that her testimony sounded too “hard” and came off wrong so she adjusted it. She’s a not-ready-for-prime-time actor but she is definitely a team player saying whatever she is told to say to save the department from embarrassment and I think she should rot in hell. I also think she will have a very rough time in her future — at least her near future, five or six years or so — this from a friend of mine who has bursts of strange psychic vision that never have been wrong in the 29 years I have known her.

      • manberk says:

        She also dressed softer. I wonder if that was by design? She completely lied.

  70. Rachael says:

    I’m here

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