Welcome to liveblogging day 10 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

Monday, July 8, 2013

Good afternoon:

Sorry I’m a little late but I had an errand to run downtown.

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.


See you in court.


Your continuing support allows me to continue posting independent articles like this.

Please consider making a donation to keep independent journalism alive.

Thank you

1,276 Responses to Welcome to liveblogging day 10 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

  1. Jose Padilla says:

    Whoa, Dr. Vince says he hasn’t reviewed any witness statements, but has reviewed Zimmerman’s “re-enactment.”

    Prosecution needs to hammer the dogshit out of him on that. That is not his normal methodology. The prosecution needs to go through every statement and say, you don’t know what this witness said. He also apparently did not review Zimmerman’s statement to the police. Need to go through every inconsistency and say “You didn’t know about this statement when you prepared your opinions.” And “If you don’t have all the evidence, you’re opinions may be wrong.”

    Sorry, this falls in my area of expertise.

  2. Malisha says:

    Last night a friend called me and said that the prosecution “needs to know” that, although it’s probably too late because they are losing (I disagreed), the way to prove the screams are Trayvon Martin’s terrified dying screams is to have some sound expert make a graphic that shows the jury exactly how and at exactly precisely what point the scream stops with the gunshot. She envisioned a glowing green moving bar like we see with the speech graphics, that stops at exactly the place on the horizontal graph line when the gunshot bursts in in red. When I said that the jurors could hear that the gunshot stopped the scream, she said that was not enough: “They need to SEE it.”

    When I was an activist (for 18 years, 17 years ago) I used to hear from everyone: “You need to go public with this”; “here’s what you need to do”; “somebody needs to …”; “Got to a celebrity and get them to…”; “You need to go to the prosecutor and tell them…”; ad nauseam. I thought about the idea that now that I held this precious knowledge of what the prosecutor needed to do, I was obligated to somehow get this crucial information to Mantei — or Corey — or … and then I remembered how much I hated that feeling.

    We are helpless here, and we have to recognize our helplessness because it really IS the problem. People who WOULD have this country operate in a just and clean way are essentially powerless. And it made me mad, as it always has, but that is in itself a debilitating thing. I spend my energy on that anger.

    So I said to her, “You’re an attorney licensed to practice in Florida [true] and I’m not. YOU get this information to the prosecutor.”

    Silence on the line.

    She eventually managed to explain to me that she couldn’t do it. I don’t even remember WHY. Just plain, “somebody should” or “somebody needs to” coupled with “but not me; I can’t.” And the hint (just a hint) of “why don’t you…”

    Of course, I think that graphic would be a perfect way to show who screamed. I think Ed Primeau should testify about how he determined that it was the youngster who screamed. I think somebody should tease out all the other things that can be heard on the tape, including “I’m begging you.” I think somebody should point out that there is no “You’re gonna die tonight MF” on the tape. Etc. etc. etc.

    But so what?

    I thought about their having created a little computer video clip of a big bad pba-lack kid almost murdering a decent American and getting himself shot, and I realized that 1,000 videos could be made of a crazed creepy-ass white guy murdering an unarmed AA kid with skittles in his pocket, and I decided I should mentally create one of them.

    Fogen gets out of his car and chases after Trayvon from the mailboxes to the T, and then searches. Maybe even knocks on a door to get himself some help in the hunt. If so, someone comes out and silently nods to him: “Ready.” He signs off the phone after hearing Trayvon’s cell phone ring. He (and perhaps the nodder) go down to cut Trayvon off as he heads south. He tells the police to call when they arrive so he can tell them where he’s “at” and Sean says sure, we can do that. Fogen comes up behind Trayvon when Trayvon is in the back by his house. Trapped, Trayvon turns and says, “why are you following me?” and Fogen asks, “What are you doing around here?” and knocks the phone down and pushes Trayvon and gets him in a submission hold, while Trayvon yells, “get offfff, get offff!” “Who’s been stealing stuff around here?” he demands and Trayvon says, “I don’t know ’em!” and then somehow breaks away, throwing Fogen back against a tree as he does so. Trayvon runs wildly flailing his arms and Fogen’s in pursuit, gun drawn, but he will not fire because if he does, he can easily miss. He has to have Trayvon right in front of him before he fires. He catches up and they scuffle, on the ground and on foot, and Fogen is questioning again and cursing in his angry voice, teeth clenched, face immobile, true psychopath look filled with adrenalin and hatred. He bumped his head and he’s enraged; this kid HURT HIM! He had no RIGHT! He grabs Trayvon’s hoodie and brings his gun up. “I’m begging you!” Trayvon screams as Fogen, seeing a few other lights go on, remembers to scream, “Help me Help me” right before he shoots. As he aims, we hear the death shriek. GUNSHOT! Silence. The gun recoil smacks Fogen right in his nose.

    Trayvon lands on his back immobile and Fogen turns him over to check to make sure that there’s no exit wound. Relieved, he pats Trayvon to see if there’s a weapon maybe then transfers from blood from the wound to the inside of Trayvon’s shirt. No weapon. OK, nevermind, he’ll make the story work with just fists. MMA-style. He gets up and paces, calling NEN to try to reach Tim Smith and update him on the plan. He’s golden. The thug was killed and he will be a hero. Tim Smith shows up. “How did it go?” he asks and Fogen answers, “little change in plans but I handled it.” Then other cops show up and the charade begins. Tim Smith says to the others, as he leads Fogen to his squad car, “Zimmerman was screaming and screaming for help but nobody came; this shows that the neighborhood really DOES need an armed patrol out here; he’s just the right guy for the job, too.” They nod stupidly. “Check that thug’s fingerprints stat!” Smith advises as he organizes Wagner to take the photo of the poor attacked decent American, “maybe he’s a cereal killer.”

    • Malisha says:

      Oh wait a minute. SPD cannot be implicated … oh forget it. I guess we have to make a different video. Oh I know, a video where there was this really BIG ocean liner filled with very beautiful people and it hits an ice berg …

  3. Romaine says:

    they need to bring that CAC sundance to court and expose his arse as the one feeding all of this hearsay to the defense as fact and blow the defenses case up…then charge sundance with obstruction of justice, slander of a dead child and his family, and what ever legal offense he has committed. i’m not a lawyer so I don’t know all the terms. but i’m sure there is something that can right the wrong of his interfering with this trial and case.

  4. 2dogsonly says:

    He was in court at least from w18, schoolteacher on. Thought he was tubs’s Dad.

    • KateW says:

      Wonder if the prosecution knows about this or does it even matter. I do believe Nelson said she will not strike his testimony but does she knew this guy was in court?

  5. KateW says:

    bgesq says:
    July 8, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    so if Donnely was in the court last week, ten he likely heard the gunshot/scream tape before saturday- even though he testified he avoided listening until this past saturday- 7/6. I apologize If this already was addressed, I had to work all day today and tried to watch in between working.

    smokeegyrl says:
    July 8, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Not only he was there that day… he was there more than that one day..

    EXCELLENT POINT! If he was in court those days he could not have heard this tape for the first time Saturday. He needs to be impeached, his testimony struck and the jurors told to disregard his testimony. We already knew he was a liar but man this confirms it. Someone needs to get in touch with the prosecution about this!

  6. colin black says:

    For George Michel zimmermamm.

    fhucking assholes khoons

    dedicated just for you foggagge

  7. Malisha says:

    @ Jun — great synopsis. That description of what actually happened (and is proven to have happened) is excellent. And as to WHY it happened, I was thinking of two pieces of testimony that I think clinch the thing:

    1. Fogen’s injuries are “very insignificant” and
    2. The HOA guy said he didn’t think NW watchdogging was necessary.

    It did not happen because Fogen reasonably feared great bodily injury or death. It happened because Fogen wanted to be what Serino called “a little hero.” He thought he could get there by killing a Black kid. In another time (not very long ago) in another place (very nearby) it would have worked but it doesn’t look like it is working here and now.

  8. smokeegyrl says:


    fax/call to complain on google game #trayvonmartin game +1 650 253 0000 or fax: +1 650 253 0001

  9. Malisha says:

    OT OT, but here:

    A police officer in DC responsible for the safety of the President and First Lady has been cleared of charges after merely saying he would like to kill President and Mrs. Obama, and showing off pictures of his hand-gun on his cell phone.


    Hmmm. This, while a kid in Texas is in jail five months on half million dollars bail because he wrote some nonsense aggressive language on facebook. Kid’s name is Carter.

    Our country is filled with psychocops and psychocourts. It’s a miracle there even IS a trial against Fogen for one little kill.

    Beam me UP!

    • Jun says:

      You know what I dont get?

      The guys that beat that little boy Emmett Till to death

      Even they the jury cleared them, why did they not use an exception to double jeopardy to go after the guys?

      There’s quite a few exceptions to the rules

  10. colin black says:

    Right someone has to say this SINGLETON Is a low down connive eing lieing biatch.

    She was not even a frigging detective a neighbourhood support plus a school liason officer.

    Where She must have encountered good kids an not so good Kids as a matter of course.

    Cours being her effin JOB

    An she was calledin to make up the NUMBERS?

    On a shooting of a child.

    But wasn’t considered serious enough to deploy to many real DETECTIVES So lets send in Serrino an a School support /traffic/neighbour hood support/ officer/hence her rapporte with the foggagge one /

    They knew each other Foggagge reminded her of praising e mails he had sent in about her to her boss


    An she so got it not even a proper Detective an she knew from the get go he was full off it.

    Rmember her biteing her tounge at her .Now you want as to pretend remark?
    We all knew that she knew the the foggagge was lieing.

    Many of us praised her for astute back off an let him talk non confrontainal approach.

    An then come to find out….

    Got Ciby Anthony to fank for that ..come to find out via an email or leaked text

    That the former narcotics officer in no way advised him on how to proceed an word his statements that night.

    An come to find out again that surprise surprise Singleton was an ex NARCOTICS officer whom foggagge was bum suckinh brown noseing colon invadeing terrotery.

    An now the schemeing biatch wants us to believe she swalled his bullcrap hook line an sinker.

    An not only that .

    He asks if she has ever had to shppt any one ..


    good for you says he the foggagge one..

    Are you catholic no she says my tastes are mundane

    In vain he asks again Us Catholics know its a sin to kill especially for a thrill.

    But ah says she you will never visit purgatory if you make it a burglar story.

    An you were right to kill if he meant you ill will so a little blood was spilled.

    I think if you say it that way its ok an gods will came into play.

    Thiswill all die down by the next again day

    It will be all gone away .

    But nae there was never a day Trayvon went on his way because foggagge desided to slay on that Febuary night when Trayvon was in sight of his home port for that night

    An you ended his life with fear an with fright an then made up an imaginary fight.

    And nonsence such as I needed the light to account for your fright of the dark stormy night.

    Trayvon never made it home on that dark tragic night .

    An although he died alone an in spite of that teerable night.

    He has shown a glareing light on all that’s not right .

    An given us all the instinct to fight for truth an justice an right .

    An although TRAYVON never made it home that sad night he has guided us all to a cause that is right an found a place in our hearts for ever and that’s right.

    Theres no need to fight when your in the right as the light always exposes the night.

    • Dennis says:

      The liaison officer back when I was in high school was a flaming idiot. I would never feel safe with that idiot around.

      • colin black says:

        Oysterman the one far of the mark oysterman was also a school liason officer before getting sacked for moonlighting

        For a fake Celeb baseball star or basket ball but any way he was a delussinal wannabe fraud .
        An oysterman an his mate worked as his body gaurds an got busted an sacked

        Not sure if was because of moonlighting or being so stupid to moonlight for a Walter Mitty type?

        Anhis BFF right now whomh eis keeping the book money for foggagge after .

        After what ?

        aftermath after conviction

        Hey if you want to kkep that money mosterman keep it until after foggagges graduates?

        An not with honours.

        School big house he heading for will graduate with horrors.

  11. Sophia33 says:

    MOM spent 20 minutes on CNN tonight with Piers Morgan. He better not be crying tomorrow about not having the time to prepare something.

  12. Sophia33 says:

    If that picture is accurate and Donnelly was in the courtroom last week then he REALLY is going to impeach his testimony because he made such a big deal about not wanting to watch anything to do with the case because he had already been on other juries and knew he was going to be a witness. He made statements of this nature several times. So he can’t say he didn’t know.

  13. Tee says:

    They are acting a fool on hln & Taffee has met his match!

    • Dennis says:

      I really can’t even deal with HLN anymore. I only care what Nancy Grace has to say. Some of the HLN legal analysts take Fogen’s major lies and make them out to be something non-important.

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        I finally checked in on my FB page and most of all of my.friends and family are sickened by how the State is handling this case and all of the pundits are saying the same thing. It’s like we are in our own unrealistic box here.

        We were asked to be patient with the State on direct even as we noticed them missing many opportunities to nail down witnesses. We were told its because they are their witnesses and they did not want to badger them. Now we look at them on cross and still they miss opportunities to nail down witnesses and they treat them with TOO MUCH respect. Why? These people are lying for a CHILD KILLER. It’s almost as if the State doesn’t know who Trayvon Martin is anymore. And when the State’s most important witness.took the stand, Trayvon’s mother, BDLR mispronounced Trayvon’s name.

        Officer Serino said he was going by what Tim Smith told him and what John Good told him. Why.couldn’t BDLR ask him if he later became aware that John Good admitted he could not see who was screaming? Why couldn’t he ask him if.others had said it was Martin screaming? Why.couldn’t he elaborate when at least three times Det. Serino said, “amongst other things” in response to a question BDLR asked? Why couldn’t the State call Tracy Martin FIRST and have him explain the grief and trauma of hearing his son scream for his life?

        There are so many questions and outsiders would not be leary of the.State’s job if they were.doing a good job.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Tasha.

          I feel ultimately, everything will ride on the prosecution’s closing argument. I really think that they will be excellent in their closing and the jurors will go into their deliberation having heard that last.

        • Sophia33 says:

          I think you brought up some valid questions Tasha.

  14. Jun says:

    This is what I seen thus far

    1) The NEN call shows that Fogen targeted profiled and aggravated stalked Trayvon and called him an asshole and a fucking punk/coon

    2) Selene saw a chase from the south head north, till it ended at 40 to 60 feet south of the T, and she saw both parties standing once they met up. The defense tried to claim that Selene was assuming and then refused to show how.

    3) Jean Sardyka testified that she heard an older person’s voice, like Fogen’s angrily threatening a young meeker voice. She then identified the screams and yelps to be that of a young boy. She also testified that the screams stopped at the gun shot. She also saw and heard the shooting and testified that Fogen was on top of Trayvon when he shot him and simply stood up off the victim. The defense tried to claim she was assuming everything. The defense then tried to claim that it was possible that Fogen sounds like a little boy although he is the adult and Trayvon the young boy would sound like the adult. Sardyka then testifies that she can only testify as to what she saw and heard and she said it sounded like a young boy.

    4) Manalo’s wife testifies that Fogen was on top and after the shot, Fogen simply stood up.

    5) Mona testifies that she simply saw the defendant stand up off the victim after the shooting. The defense refused to let her describe the screaming as that of a young boy and kept objecting to it.

    6) Rachel testifies to the aggravated stalking and chase and described Fogen as “creepy ass cracker”. She testifies that Trayvon told her he would try to lose him but Fogen kept following the boy. Soon the man caught up to Trayvon and Trayvon asked why Fogen was stalking him. Fogen then confronted Trayvon with “what are you doing here?” in an angry voice and then she heard Trayvon yell “get off” and heard the phone on the grass to her. The defense tried to make a big deal about Rachel asking if the cops wanted that information too from what she witnessed. The defense tried to make a big deal about Rachel trying to clarify a question being asked of her. The defense then tried to claim and change Rachel’s testimony to which she said she never stated that Trayvon started a fight. Bernie then redirects and affirms her testimony of the aggravated profiling and stalking of Trayvon before the confrontation and attack. Now you can combine this with Selene, Sardyka, Manalo, Mona, Cutcher, and the forensics of where the cell phone was, and you get the full picture.

    7) Jon Good tells Omara he never said it was Fogen screaming for help, just that it could be and that he assumed. Jon Good also says he never saw any punches being throw, just hand movements, nor did he see any head bashing onto cement, nor did he hear it. Jon Good testifies that it could have been 3 to 10 seconds, he does not know. The state could have pressed this witness better but it’s over now. If we are to believe Jon Good, although he changed his testimony several times, the other witnesses lay the foundation that Fogen instigated the whole thing and would not get off Trayvon. I feel if Jon Good is to be believed, the jury will find the boy was justified in trying to get Fogen off him. Trayvon could have tried to get away as Fogen held onto his shirt so he could not run or stand up. The state should confirm his statement that he was not sure what he saw or heard.

    8) No DNA found on Trayvon’s hands sleeves arms of cuffs that is foreign. That pretty much concludes in a simple manner to any jury that Trayvon did not cause any of Fogen’s injuries, as it is not physically possible due to the reading.

    9) Now it’s pretty much finalized Fogen targeted aggravated stalked profiled threatened attacked confronted killed an unarmed 17 year old boy and a struggle ensued where Trayvon may have been able to somewhat defend himself. In the final moments Fogen had Trayvon pinned to the ground, and had a huge weight difference where Trayvon was helpless and screaming, and Fogen was in no danger, when he shot Trayvon.

    10) A bunch of people showed how minor Fogen’s injuries are and that he had dried blood on him and self healing wounds, and is not consistent with his story or the evidence. One of the ME’s said it may be consistent with a head smash but he could have said it was consistent with a million other things.

    11) Trayvon is shown clutching his chest facedown.

    12) A bunch of the Fogen gang swore an oath and lied to the court and claimed it was Fogen screaming, even going as far as saying Fogen’s voice will change into a little girl’s. The only people claiming it is for sure Fogen, are all connected to Fogen.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      Thanks for taking the time to put together your excellent summary!

      I pray that the jury remembers all of these points!

      • Jun says:

        I think they will

        The evidence is very simple and straight forward for the jury to understand

        The defense on the other hand is kind of odd ball logic and reasoning which is hard to follow

        That’s my take anyways

    • Unabogie says:

      Yep, pretty much. My wife asked me “is this guy gonna walk?” and I replied that it will come down to the same basic question. Zimmerman’s story is implausible and contradicted by the facts and his own story. The only way you get on his side is if you have a belief, based on stereotypes, that all black kids have a hair trigger to violence and are naturally strong and fast. The facts do not support Zimmerman’s story so that’s what you’re left with. Is this a jury of those kinds of people? The kind who congregate on message boards and accept Zimmerman’s every word as if it’s true? Or are they part of the rest of society who sees obvious lies from an admitted shooter as self-serving and therefore untrustworthy?

      I think that question will decide the verdict more than Mantei’s closing. These facts have been more than laid out for them. If they want to acquit, they have enough to grab from the defense’s bs. But if they want to convict, they have the facts in front of them. I have no idea what they’ll do.

      Honestly, it helps to just remember that nothing we say here on a blog will make a bit of difference. It’s not in our control at all.

      • Jun says:

        Well it’s the jury’s call

        This decision hangs the safety of Florida in the balance because

        1) If Fogen does walk, it’s been made a legal precedent that people can target and go after people, confront attack and kill them, steal the victim’s voice and cries for help, and claim self defense.

        2) The legal precedent is set, a lot of prisoners who have committed violent crimes can appeal and be freed

        3) There will be no recourse in Florida, if someone does the same as Fogen and the bodies will pile up. Basically if you start a fight and attack, if the victim screams or fights back at all in self defense it is of no use.

        4) Florida will become the wild west because everyone will need a gun and people will not go out at night anymore. The city of Sanford will have no faith in the SPD anymore.


        1) Fogen gets convicted, balance is restored, the community knows they are looked out for, stalking and killing people will be punished and thus deterred and Florida is a little safer than before, and the SPD is looked at cruelly by the residents and changes are made so that their community is safer.

        The cup is still half full and I do not feel the jury will buy the defense’s hustling but that’s JMO

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I agree with you, jun.

          You wisely point out the situation as it stands now.

    • Romaine says:

      can we add the mma trainer stated the wrist lock was impossible from the position fogen stated he was in, i.e. laying on his back on the ground with TM sitting on his upper body.

  15. Trained Observer says:

    OFF TOPIC: A coupla days ago someone mentioned To Kill A Mockingbird and similarities to this case. I responded that reclusive Harper Lee was getting up there, but what potential for a semblance of a sequel.

    Little did I know that Vanity Fair would land in mailbox today with a major piece entitled To Pluck a Mockingbird, focusing on Harper Lee’s lawsuit against an agent who had, for a time, latched on to the copyright for her American classic.

    As told, it’s a complicated saga — with the bad guy also involved with John Steinbeck’s estate and Mary Higgins Clark’s body of work.

    And as usual, there’s a Florida angle, with sketchy Miami lawyer Gerald Posner (a former contributer to the Daily Beast) involved.

    Harper Lee, reportedly nearly blind and suffering short-term memory lapses, is not doing as well health-wise as her 101-year-old lawyer sister Alice, who continued to practice until a couple of years ago.

    Online link to the story not yet available, it seems, but likely will be in a few days. If you need relief from Fogen trial tension and want to enjoy a legal thriller where it appears justice will prevail, this could be for you …

    • sadlyyes says:

      twer I….tray was the beautiful mocking bird…it was a sin to kill him,and catholic boy must pay……..imo

  16. ay2z says:

    Iwrote a post, having missed the evensts post Richardson. Caught the expos´of Donnolly (thanks!) and then my cat steped on KB and took control of the mouse tablet, and poof, it was gone.

    Have to go again, but be back to find out if Daubert happened today too.

  17. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Remember Trayvon, Tracy and Sabina in your prayers that justice is served… My heart is completely broken for them…if I was Almighty I would breathe life back into him… RIP….Trayvon

  18. type1juve says:

    I just hope that during rebuttal the state drives home the point that Fogen is NOT a cop.

    • Dennis says:

      Fogen is NOT a cop.
      Fogen has no authority to detain somebody unless they are witnessed committing a crime (in some states it has to be a felony too, not sure about Florida).

  19. William Walton says:

    A point of view regarding the head scratches. Go back and look at the early photos of GZ’s head where the scratches are scabbed over. Also note the blackish tinge to his shaved head. Silver Nitrate (AgNO3) is used to cauterize small amounts of bleeding. The small wound cauterizes immediately. However, some of the AgNO3 also seeps onto areas not bleeding such as GZ’s surrounding head area. When AgNO3 is exposed to light energy, the area turns black which is why it is stored in amber bottles. During my lab days at the University, I used AgNO3 in analytical chemistry. Spill some on yourself and one will have a black spot that will last a long time until new skin grows out to replace the black spot. Just a thought.

  20. anita says:

    I love & always have loved Pres.Bill Clinton, & Hillary, Too Like the Obamas, of course, Joe Biden is the Greatest

  21. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Justice for Trayvon!!!

  22. sadlyyes says:

    Clinton,Booshie,BHO….all admitted pot smokers

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        What does it say that Fogen pegged TM as high and still went after him?

        There is a YouTube video called Follow The Gun. It will be av travesty if the State doesn’t drive home the point that every decision Fogen made that night was driven by the gun.

        • Unabogie says:

          That’s a good point. If I see someone on the street that I think may be high, I might turn to someone and say “damn, that guy is sooo high”. I don’t immediately call the cops, jump out of my car, and try and detain him.

          With a fucking gun.

        • sadlyyes says:

          did you read my screedon choices? Foagy had many choices that nite,Tray few….Foagies lousy choices all through the timeline,killed TRay(after being caught he had none)

          In her reporting of the Eichmann trial for The New Yorker, which evolved into Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil (1963), she coined the phrase “the banality of evil” to describe Eichmann. She raised the question of whether evil is radical or simply a function of thoughtlessness, a tendency of ordinary people to obey orders and conform to mass opinion without a critical evaluation of the consequences of their actions and inaction
          evil must be imprisoned

          • Malisha says:

            Also that Eichmann was a very ordinary man. Evil was itself ordinary. Nothing amazing about it.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Yep yep

  23. crazy1946 says:

    I am once again going to violate my self banishment from voicing my opinion here. I would like each of you to consider the position that BDLR and the state team is in. Here is how it will play out after the trial. If the state is successful and gets a good clean conviction of the Fogdoit, many of you will only think that it was because of luck or something similar. If the Fogdoit is acquitted then it will be because of the stupidity of BDLR and the state team. Last but not least, if the Fogdoit is convicted, and his conviction is overturned (even if it is because BDLR and the state team did as you demanded with some information and or witnesses) it will be the fault of BDLR and the state team (at least in your minds).
    Now with all that having been said, think for a moment, what do you want, a quick conviction that will be overturned setting a murderer loose, or a conviction that is achieved using good legal and ethical methods and sends a cold blooded murderer to prision? I really think that many of you do not realize that much of what you think the prosecutors should do and or say could or would cause either a miss trial or an overturned conviction….
    I know that emotions are running wild right now, this is a difficult case, the weather is hot, tempers are even hotter and members of this site are starting to treat each other with severe disrespect. To those of you that are letting this case get to you that much perhaps you need to join me in a short time out? If you don’t want to do that, then perhaps I could suggest you read your words very carefully before you hit that button that sends it out into the blogsphere……
    Please read my words in the way that they are intended, which is not in anger, but instead with care and attempted respect not only for you but for the memory of a 17 year old child named Trayvon Martin…….
    Now, after looking around carefully and seeing no incoming scud missiles coming my way (yet!), I will scurry back beneath my rock to safety…….

    • PerfectlyImperfect says:

      I think you should provide your opinion more often.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Nice post.

    • type1juve says:

      Thanks for this thoughtful post. Your point is well taken.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Now.that was a nice and respectful way.to convey your point. No one can take offense because the SPIRIT behind what you said is clear and non-threatening. Many have attempted to make the same point.but.with snide and sarcastic remarks mixed in as if we are too stupid to read between the lines.Your post was different and it can only be met with respect because it was written with a respectful spirit. Kudos.

    • anita says:

      I’m a newbie & I’ve tried my best not to be like this. Now my posts are showing up in the wrong place. All important we are all together, we want the conviction of , fogen, for the murder of Trayvon Martin. just to be safe/ response to crazy1946

    • crazy1946 says:

      “there’s none so blind as those who will not see”

      How many of us have been or are guilty of this old saying? I know that I have been and have to admit that I will probably be guilty of it again in the future. But that should not stop us from striving to do what we know in our hearts is right. Then again there is probably another old saying that fits me better!
      “There’s no fool like an old fool”…..
      Y’all have a wonderful evening try to get some rest, tomorrow is a new day…..

    • Sophia33 says:

      I think that was very well said crazy and very classy. I expect nothing less from you. 🙂

    • God is there says:

      Well said and very calming. BREAK TIME for me.

  24. Malisha says:

    I believe Ed Primeau’s testimony can come in on rebuttal, because the defense presented individuals who used EARS to identify what they said was Fogen’s voice screaming. Primeau uses ears too.

    We would see some fireworks there. And it wouldn’t be computer animated fantasy; it would be the work of expert ears speaking out of an expert mouth.

    • Jun says:

      I cant wait till rebuttal against the screams and I think the state can put a timeline and forensics together in rebuttal to rebut their self defense claim and disprove it, as it all ties together in proving that he was not screaming for help

      Having said that, I dont believe those people lied like that for Fogen

      It’s obviously not him screaming, and it sounds like a kid screaming to me

      Since the jury is all female I think that they are smart enough to tell it’s Trayvon because it sounds like a kid

      I hate saying this about guys since I am a guy, but women are generally smarter than us LOL

      • disappointed says:

        Jun common sense comes into play for us women. 1st fogen had a gun. 2nd fogen sais I yelled help, help me. First 3 words in Jenna’s 911 call I’M begging you! That’s a problem for fogen and that is the first clue for me who actually screamed.

    • I’ve read the Motion in Limine and cannot figure out why none of the witnesses stated that the screams stop after the gun shot. This would have been prime testimony for the state to elicit from Gladys, Uncle Jorge, Donnelly, Serino, Singleton, Wynken, Blynken, Nod etc. {color me clueless}

    • Tzar says:

      but those are people FAMILIAR to Zimmerman
      isn’t that the threshold?

  25. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    Apparently the defense may rest their case tomorrow or early Wednesday morning! Eek!

    • Malisha says:

      Thus Fogen is not going to testify.

    • KateW says:

      What? That was short lived! I think that is particularly problematic on their part but I keep hearing folks say the defense had very little and most of the defense witnesses seem to corroborate Zinmmerman’s tall tale.

      • PerfectlyImperfect says:

        It is an incredibly short defense. I’m wondering what rebuttal the state’s rebuttal case will look like. Maybe everyone should band together and collectively say they need to be tougher. They are reading some internet stuff. But what!?!

        • Unabogie says:

          The defense put on witnesses to say that Zimmerman was weak and timid. Therefore, the state should be allowed to put on witnesses to say he was hotheaded and quick to use his hands on people.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I hope so. I am sick of hearing MOM and West.

  26. Tee says:

    Talking to my teenage daughter about this case and she looked at me and said mom all of my girl friends smoke weed. We stay in an uppermiddle class neighborhood homes well over a million dollars my daughter best friends are white one is a Christian, the other is the sweetest thing you ever met. She have two other black girlfriends and they both smoke I had my daughter tested to be sure she was telling me the truth that she didn’t smoke. I say this because I bet you one or more of those women smoked marijuana before. I am not worried about that but that animation bullshit, hell naw.

    • ZCBest says:

      Me either. Marijuana laws are changing. I enjoyed my fair share in college. Went to an Ivy. So I would say it is a nonissue.

    • Malisha says:

      My son had to be the only kid in the world who asked his mom’s permission to smoke weed, and he did so presuming that I had smoked in college. I said I had never even tried a puff and he was astonished! Then I said I’d do some research and come backto him with an answer (he was over 18 at the time) and my answer was, “if you follow these rules [gave him six rules] you can go ahead.”

      He was at college and most kids drank and he didn’t drink. He had a chat with a cop one time who said he wished the kids would stop drinking and smoke up instead. He said, “When they were smoking pot they were all quiet and mellow and nobody beat anybody up or started fights or fell downstairs and got killed. They’d stay home on Saturday night and sit in circles and giggle and smoke up and say ‘oh wow oh wow’ and then they’d go to krispy kreme and get munchies — we’d see them there! — and we had nothing to do at the station house.”

      • Dennis says:

        Exactly. Hence the reason why marijuana is banned from some sports because it is a sedative. It mellows and chills you out, not makes you roam the streets looking for a fight.

    • Jun says:

      George Washington grew and smoked weed and he found the bloodclot country

      I personally have smoked weed with lesbians, rastas, white adults who were professionals in their careers, security guards,, black people, chinese people. latinos, native americans, Indian people, gas station attendants… hell I even know police officers that have smoked or still smoke weed

      There are millionaires who smoke weed

      I am not worried about the defense marijuana claims, and I doubt that they will hold it against the kid, especially since it is a small amount and the expert can explain the measurement clearly so the jury understands

      even if Trayvon smoked a pound of weed, not saying he did, but this is hypothetical, it still does not change the fact that Fogen targeted profiled aggravated stalked chased confronted threatened attacked and killed a 17 year old unarmed minor who was simply walking home from the corner store with Skittles and Ice Tea

      That does not make it justified, even if hypothetically Trayvon smoked a pound of weed and surely anyone knows that weed just makes you hungry happy lazy and mellow

      I bet even the mothers on the jury have smoked weed

      I have even watched a jury get interviewed and when a defense attorney attacked a witness regarding marijuana use, the jurors found it slimy and sleezy because it was marijuana

      I think it’s gonna backfire because someone smoking marijuana does not justify a murder

      Besides, it could have been second hand smoke

      • Dennis says:

        More character assassination on the defense’s part.

        Since West and O’Mara have shown absolutely no evidence to prove that marijuana causes one to become violent and randomly attack somebody, they are basically saying “Trayvon deserved to die because he smokes pot and was high”.

        There is no other interpretation in my opinion. I hope the jury despises these two degenerates for their petty nonsense.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I think it is going to backfire on the defense. The talking heads are already mentioning that Mary J makes you want to relax and less likely to pick a fight. Then for West to say Trayvon was swaying? That makes him LESS LIKELY to be able to fight with GZ effectively.

      The defense is going to pay for this. Karma is a _______.

      • Dennis says:

        Another intelligent analysis! If you are high on marijuana, your coordination is not going to be perfect, but it surely won’t be anywhere near as bad as drinking.

        I don’t see how the jury would believe that a 17 year old that is high on marijuana could jump and dominate a man almost twice his age and weight, not to mention Fogen had bouncer job experience and knowledge of MMA techniques

        Makes absolutely no sense. West and O’Mara must think women are stupid because I doubt they would be doing the same things if it was a jury of 6 men.

  27. Jasmine says:

    I could say that I am surprised by the THC being admitted but I am not. Smearing the victim is the way it is with our ‘justice’ system. I can only shake my head in disgust. The prosecution really needs to stress the importance of Fogen having a hold of Trayvon when he shot him, that the shot could not have been made with that angle from underneath Trayvon, and that Trayvon did not cause those little boo boos to that creature.

    What I don’t get is how the following of Trayvon is seemingly a non-issue. Remember the Pettit family? A woman and her daughters were followed home from the store, terrorized through the night, and by morning a man had to come to grips with the assault and murder of his wife and 2 daughters. All this started by some men following this family home.

  28. tharealkeisha says:

    I pray the defense tactics backfire against them!

  29. KateW says:

    Quote of the day “If you don’t have sh… you can’t acquit.” LOL

  30. ZCBest says:

    Here’s what Vinnie Politan thinks police should have asked Zimmerman immediately after Martin’s death:

    1. Where did you go for two minutes after hanging up with police?
    2. Why did you need to get out of the car to find a street address?
    3. Why did you say in court that you thought Trayvon Martin was your age, when you described him as a teenager and a “kid” in the call to police?
    4. Why did you think Martin was breaking into neighbor Frank Taaffe’s house when the person responsible for all of the burglaries in the community was arrested three weeks prior?
    5. Which one of Martin’s hands grabbed the gun? And how could he grab it if he was straddling you? And how could his hand slide across your chest to the gun if he was straddling you?
    6. How was he smashing your head into the concrete? Did he grab your hair or your ears?
    7. Where are the bushes Martin jumped out of?
    8. Do you always forget you are carrying your gun?
    9. Why were you carrying your gun to Target? Didn’t you get it to protect yourself from the neighborhood stray dog?
    10. How close to Martin were you when you were following him in your car?

    • Malisha says:

      Serino did ask how he allegedly smashed melon-head. He suggested, ears [not hair] and Fogen said, “I don’t remember.”

      • ZCBest says:

        I remember that part. He didn’t remember any logistical details. How telling.

      • ada4750 says:

        Serino and Singleton were weak also. Maybe they were afraid that GZ would just walk out,

        So GZ recalled being slammed many times but didn’t remember how?

        Somebody should dress a list of the mistakes these two officers made.

        Ex — Singleton:it sounds like you’re running too
        — GZ: No, it was just windy.
        — Serino: It was. OK.

        Never came to their mind that the “wind” sound ended totally after GZ said “he ran” and no more “wind” after. Isn’t odd?

        Ex: GZ said he was banging his flashlight because he didn’t want to come back to the T in the darkness. Then why he did anyway? No question about that neither.

        The list would be soooo long.

        No question about anything of this from BDLR in direct or what so ever.

  31. Unabogie says:

    Sorry if I’m late to the subject, but 1.5 ng/ml is truly tiny.

    Here’s some info:



    “Unlike urine tests, blood tests detect the active presence of THC in the bloodstream. In the case of smoked marijuana, THC peaks rapidly in the first few minutes after inhaling, often to levels above 100 ng/ml in blood plasma. It then declines quickly to single-digit levels within an hour. High THC levels are therefore a good indication that the subject has smoked marijuana recently. THC can remain at low but detectable levels of 1-2 ng/ml for 8 hours or more without any measurable signs of impairment in one-time users. In chronic users, detectable amounts of blood THC can persist for days. In one study of chronic users, residual THC was detected for 24 to 48 hours or longer at levels of 0.5 – 3.2 ng/ml in whole blood (1.0 – 6.4 ng/ml in serum) [Skopp and Potsch].”

    In other words, if Trayvon had smoked weed in the time before being murdered, his THC level would be as high as 100 ng/ml.

    His level was that of someone who had smoked pot but wasn’t high.

    And it should be said that I smoked my fair share (and then some) of weed when I was Trayvon’s age and it never made me fly into a rage. In fact, it made me lazy and hungry. I don’t think Bernie will have trouble knocking this down. The danger is that a juror may react irrationally to this news and punish the prosecution because Trayvon wasn’t a “good” kid.

    • ZCBest says:

      Great post and ditto!

    • Jun says:

      if you murder someone that is a gang banger, is it still murder?

      Yes it is under law…

    • Malisha says:

      If murderers have their way, no victims will be “good” enough to evade them. I’m sure there were no Jews who, during the Holocaust, were good enough to justify the Nazis coming to the conclusion that they shouldn’t be killed. It’s part of the process and it’s inevitable. once you allow or even encourage the abusers to justify their abuse by pointing out the wrongness of their victims, all abuse and any murder become justifiable.

    • anita says:

      That is my worst fear.

      • anita says:

        my reply “worst fear” should be for unabogie, something is screwedup. oh well, about the part the jury will find Trayvon wsn’t a “good kid”

        • KA says:

          I do not think the Arias jury liked Travis either….he had some questionable habits but you know, he was still not worthy of his murder.

          Let’s hope that will be the case here too. I would never imagine a pot smoking kid to be a violent monster…I would think the stereotype of “lazy” more than anything.

  32. fauxmccoy says:

    am desperately searching for specific statutes regarding the violation of the sequestration rule. apparently the witness can be disqualified … am sure that fred will have more on the evening wrap up.

    • Malisha says:

      I would like a cashmere eveing wrap please, royal blue.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      The Rule of Sequestration (“The Rule”)
      Section 90.616, Fla. Stat. codifies the rule of Sequestration and states:
      (1) At the request of a party the court shall order, or upon its own motion the court may order, witnesses excluded from a proceeding so that they cannot hear the testimony of other witnesses except as provided in subsection (2).
      (2) A witness may not be excluded if the witness is:
      (a) A party who is a natural person.
      (b) In a civil case, an officer or employee of a party that is not a natural person. The party’s attorney shall designate the officer or employee who shall be the party’s representative.
      (c) A person whose presence is shown by the party’s attorney to be essential to the presentation of the party’s cause.
      (d) In a criminal case, the victim of the crime, the victim’s next of kin, the parent or guardian of a minor child victim, or a lawful representative of such person, unless, upon motion, the court determines such person’s presence to be prejudicial.
      The rule of sequestration be invoked either before any witnesses testify or during the trial after some testimony has been heard. Lambert v. State, 560 So. 2d 346 (Fla. 5th DCA 1990) (“It is within the discretion of the trial judge to invoke the rule of sequestration after opening statements.”); Jones v. Division of Administration, State Dept. of Transp., 351 So. 2d 365 (Fla. 4th DCA 1977).
      When a party requests an exception to sequestration under Section 90.616(2)(c), Fla. Stat. (a person whose presence is shown by the party to be essential to the presentation of the cause), the party requesting that the witness be allowed stay in the courtroom has the burden to demonstrate why the presence of the witness is essential. The trial court has wide discretion in determining which witnesses are essential. Randolph v. State, 463 So. 2d 186, 191–92 (Fla. 1984), cert. denied, 473 U.S. 907, 105 S. Ct. 3533, 87 L. Ed. 2d 656 (1985) (A witness should not be permitted to remain in the courtroom during the trial “when he or she is not on the stand, unless it is shown that it is necessary for the witness to assist counsel in trial …”); Morvant v. Construction Aggregates Corp., 570 F.2d 626, 630 (6th Cir. 1978), cert. dismissed, 439 U.S. 801, 99 S. Ct. 44, 58 L. Ed. 2d 94 (1978) (“[W]here a fair showing has been made that the expert witness is in fact required for the management of the case, and this is made clear to the trial court, we believe that the trial court is bound to accept any reasonable, substantiated representation to this effect by counsel.”). Opus 3 Ltd. v. Heritage Park, Inc., 91 F.3d 625, 629 (4th Cir. 1996) (No abuse of discretion in ruling that expert witness was not exempt from sequestration under Rule 615(3): “[W]e decline to adopt a per se rule exempting expert witnesses, even those who are expected only to render opinions, from sequestration. The rule does not provide such an exemption and section (3) vests in trial judges broad discretion to determine whether a witness is essential.”).

  33. Deborah Moore says:

    Marcia Clark?

  34. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    My opinion Bernie is a terrible. le prosecutor. He won some large case and it was featured on ID station. I hope he isn’t running off of that accomplishment. Ashame….

    • Deborah Moore says:

      This site is so much more than sharing an opinion, over and over. And….

    • I have to admit that there have only been a couple of high-profile cases where I root for the prosecution. I consistently up until these few cases have been pro-defense.

      That said, I understand that this case is much larger than any one litigator and thus I look at the attorneys for the state of Florida as a team. Each attorney brings unique gifts into the case and critically analyzing just one of them fails to take into account how the other two might fill any shortcoming that any other attorney might bring. Bernie will hee-haw a witness into devastatingly answering a question in a way that undermines the witness’ credibility. It takes skill to do that and Bernie’s many years of experience account for that. Mantei will aptly and succinctly arguing a legal matter before the judge, but I’m not sure he connects with witnesses and the jury in the same way that Bernie does. On the other hand, Guy connects viscerally with witnesses and jurors, but cannot veer too far away from the crutch of his written notes. He tends to miss follow up questions that would naturally flow from thinking on your feet. Not to say that’s bad, it’s just different from the rest.

      In other words, I think they are doing a fine job. Remember, Fogen neither anticipated nor expected to be arrested for murdering Trayvon so the mere fact that he simply sits at the defense table is already a victory for Trayvon’s parents.

    • Dennis says:

      Your opinion is useless unless you have some sort of evidence or statement to back up your claim. If you don’t like how he is handling the case then by all means you can step up there and fail, then explain to the Martin family why the piece of crap named Fogen walked free.

    • KA says:

      I think it is mixed.

      He had a stroke of brilliance today on his cross of Chief Lee that basically debunked and shot down every single witness for the defense that said it was “GZ;s voice”. He led Lee down that path and then snagged him in that question.

      That was great..but in some other parts, he seems to be taking a minimal opinion.

      I am still hopeful at a strong ending. Women look for overall impressions and outcomes taking into account both valued data and then lower devalued data. If they felt O’Mara was a liar and GZ is a liar, they will not suddenly be swayed by a biased GZ friend saying anything about it being him. Many heard [the very handsome] ASA Guy tell them to notice the punctuation of the bullet. It is an obvious sign that I am shocked is not a dead giveaway to anyone. The person screaming was shot. I think many know that regardless of how many witnesses that MOM parades up there.

      I know we are disappointed in some decisions, but I feel there is still hope for a conviction.

  35. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    At timestamp 27:16 …….is the lady in the back row in the black & white dress who I think she is? Is she going to be a defense witness?

    I saw from your comments that Donnelly as a witness had been seated in the back row also.

  36. At the end of the day, regardless of a conviction or not, common sense will rule. The idea that there won’t be repercussions for a failed conviction will be like thinking that the case of emmitt till didn’t have long term repercussions on this country. No matter how you look at it, some type of progression will come out of this case.

  37. MichelleO says:

    I’m not with ya’ll. I don’t care what the chattering classes or talking heads have to say. I have waited for this court date for over an entire year, and I believe that justice will be served in this case for the Martin/Fulton family and our beloved Trayvon.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i’m with you, sister!

    • ZCBest says:

      Sho you right! I totally agree.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      I think.people here have reading.comprehension problems. 99.9999% of the people here are still believe the State will get a conviction. Being jumpy.about.missteps on their part has hardly shaken my faith HOWEVER, I will not pretend they’ve done everything right. Bao and his notes were a DISASTER and thats a fact. That falls back squarely on the Pross, no one else.

      • ZCBest says:

        Call names, who would you be referring to that has reading comprehension problems? My inquiring mind would love to know who that broad statement was directed at. And if people here have “reading.comprehension problems”, why engage with these people?

        I know a place where you can go.

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        To sum up my thought about this issue, that means .01% of the people here may have totally lost hope that the State will be able to convict Fogen but with a percentage that small its hardly worth commenting on…let alone the peanut gallery of groupthink cosigners that immediately follows. That’s is an example of the dramatics I’ve spoken about.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          I’m sorry, wouldn’t the fact that a person does not realize when a post is directed at them be indicative of them having reading comprehension problems? IJS

      • KA says:

        I do think that it is possible that the jury will not come back with M2 unfortunately, but there are many levels of Manslaughter that they will convict on. Twenty years minimum time. JN is known for maximum sentences. I believe she would do it this time too.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I agree.

      The jury is not hearing any media right now.

    • God is there says:

      I agree with you Michelle 200% + and I will not give up. People have common sense and they can surely make the difference between what is true and what are absolute lies. I personally believe that Osterman hung his ‘best bud’ out to dry without even trying to do so. The gun and holster situation. Hidden, can’t see it, designed to do just that, (and it was dark). Trayvon will get justice. I know it has been said that most on this site are atheist or do not believe in God, and its okay, to each his own; but I am a firm believer in God and I don’t believe for one minute that God will stand still and allow His Great Name to be attached to innocent blood shed; (with the exception of His Son ‘willingly’ shedding His innocent blood. THERE WILL BE JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON, so people please STOP sounding as if you’ve given up. Now is not the time to cave in. There is a method behind the Prosecutor’s madness.

  38. disappointed says:

    Today MOM made a huge mistake. He had the gym guy mount him and place knees around waist area. If the Jury paid attention they also noticed West telling MOM he just showed how impossible it would be to draw a gun because then MOM asked about a move that would you could do quickly to basically have enough time to grab a gun. Without saying enough time to grab the gun.
    I think today the prosecution did good. jmo Plus MO mentioned how hard it would be to see the gun in the dark.

    • PerfectlyImperfect says:

      Thanks for pointing that out!

    • Susan Moore says:

      I noticed that too. I also noticed that the MMA instructor said Z would be incapable of getting wrist control. Then, on cross, the prosecution asked him: if Z said he had gained wrist control of someone straddling him, would the MMA instructor believe him. The instructor answered he would not believe him. Well, in one of Z’s interviews, he said he had gained wrist control. So either the instructor underestimated Z’s capabilities, or the instructor just said Z is a liar. Either way….

  39. smokeegyrl says:

    finally got it right…grrr

    • disappointed says:

      Nice. Always the dishonest group pulling shit like this, wonder why?

      • anita says:

        they’re liars & cheats, plain & simple. I hope they get screwed for this. Sick ass m.f taaffe is on Hln, spewing his trash, it’s all too much.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      what kind of happy horseshit is this?? it violates the sequestration rule and it’s o’mara’s witness. i hope to god he bears some responsibility for this and the witness’ testimony is struck from the record entirely.

    • PerfectlyImperfect says:

      Wow! People work fast! I wonder what other days he was in the court room and why the defense allowed him to remain in the courtroom.

      • Thrace says:

        Had to be multiple days because I recognized him off the bat as someone I’d seen before. If he had only been in there one day I doubt my mind would have gone, where do I know this man from?

    • Sophia33 says:

      Thank you! Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. How did they think he would get away with this?

      • type1juve says:

        Well look at how much they have gotten away with in the past. This defense has no shame, it appears they will do anything to get a murderer off.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Wow! Great job.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      you are so good..

    • bgesq says:

      so if Donnely was in the court last week, ten he likely heard the gunshot/scream tape before saturday- even though he testified he avoided listening until this past saturday- 7/6. I apologize If this already was addressed, I had to work all day today and tried to watch in between working.

    • uhoh says:

      You can see also John Donelly clearly when Selene B is sworn in.

  40. mgs710 says:

    The State just has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt–which is subjective–that GZ’s story isn’t true. It’s looking more and more like that is something that the State will be able to do.

  41. sadlyyes says:

    my closing argument
    this case is all about CHOICES…choices foagy made,and choices he took away from Tray…..at every point on the timeline,i would show foagies lousy choices, to pursue,to confront,to grab on, to kill..
    thus removing all of travons choices forever!

  42. smokeegyrl says:


    • fauxmccoy says:

      ding ding ding ding — thanks smokeegyrl!

    • Malisha says:


      • Malisha says:

        This should also disqualify his wife’s testimony at least.
        Others should be voir-dired to see if he kept them informed as he observed, to prepare their testimony.

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      holy bat shit, his whole testimony was a damn lie….i haven’t heard the recordings and i have tried to stay away from all of it….maybe he wasn’t intending to be at the trial, he was just going in the same direction as it!

  43. thejbmission says:

    I understand Rachel,
    but I still think the jury should be informed just like they are being informed by Fogen’s buddies testifying that the scream came from him.
    I agree..By the looks of Fogen, he isn’t using Adderall at this time.
    There’s a copy of Fogen’s doctor visit (or should I say Physician Asst. visit) the day after the shooting.. The report clearly shows all the medication he was prescribed and Adderall was one of them. You can tell the Rx was due a refill at the time of the shooting which means he was using Adderall at the time of the shooting.
    Adderall is known to make people aggressive. Fogen might look to be aggressive now but I certainly believe he was aggressive on Feb 26, 2012.
    The State has a medical report so they should at least least try to get this info to jury, IMO.

    • riisey007 says:

      This is why Zimmerman has gained so much weight. His heart rate increased and appetite suppressed. He most likely was abusing them along with other cocktails and this is one of the reasons why he did not seek medical attention at the emergency room.

    • Dee says:

      Yep you can look at the way he looked when they arrested him. And when he went into the court, he was looking at MOM up and down like he was crazy.

  44. Jun says:

    The animation, what happened? There’s no way that should be allowed, as it is fantasy and based on what only the defense counsel says

  45. tashatexas77048 says:

    O’Donnell didn’t get up from the stands today but.came from.the witness area in the back so how, on the day he testified, did he know where he supposed to be?

    • Malisha says:

      EXCELLENT POINT! Good CATCH! WOW! I’m in awe.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      I hope the State picks up on this, thats all that matters.

    • Dee says:

      The lawyer told him when he was going to testify like they tell everyone else. They just met with him last Saturday, he knew when he was going to be called.

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        That’s not the point. All of the witnesses were sequestered so its funny that on the day he is called he comes from the sequestration.area as if hes been back.there.all along. His ass knew he was not supposed to be in the courtroom last week. His wife wasnt in.the court room, why.was he?

        • KA says:

          I am hoping this is not just a “strike the testimony” instructions, but a consequence for the defense who well knew he was in the courtroom last week and well knew he had heard that tape before…yet he STILL put him on the stand and led him down a “primrose path”…

  46. Tee says:

    I laugh because a lot of you here are so offended by what’s going on in that courtroom. It lets me know that some of you don’t know the half of what blacks go through everday of there lives. Did you guys think for one moment they wouldnt drag that black boy through the mud use every styerotype there is for him, drugged out of his mind, superhero killer, thug, gangster. What did you expect, a fair and clean fought trial, not for our black males. I’m not surprised it’s exactly as I thought I would be, actually it’s not as bad as I thought it would be. What i’m upset about is the prosecution not doing a better job. A lot of you have not liked when I criticized BDLR but I have my reasons when he don’t prep his witnesses, can’t impeach a witness properly, and when he uses two water bottles to show mounting poistion than he’s not doing his damn job as well as he could have.

    • Malisha says:

      I understand what you’re saying.
      Defense can win by “ambiguity, confusion and complexity.”
      That is where they are going. They want to pile on more and more and more of it.

      If Fogen were treated like any other murder suspect (NOT a “coplike” murder suspect who killed a victimizable “thuglike” victim), he’d have been convicted long ago and his first appeal would already have been turned down.

      • Rachael says:

        I really would like to know why he is getting the “cop-like” treatment. He is not a cop and if anything, or maybe it is just me, but I would think the police would be upset with someone running around pretending to be a cop much less treat him like one in court. Something is so very wrong here.

        • Malisha says:

          The something that is very wrong here is the institutionalized racism of the SPD. WHICH will not be busted.

          SPD received at least two complaints about Fogen chasing, profiling and harassing Blacks in the community. At LEAST two. And they were hidden, and all evidence of them was vanished. Residents knew he was patrolling with a loaded gun; teens were afraid of him; nobody needed him running his game in their backyard. But the police were helping him set up his “protection business” like a one-man mafia within the neighborhood. Either you played ball with Fogen or you were subject to being policed, threatened, followed, chased, targeted. It was not a secret; Jeremy also knew it when he rushed like a nervous chihuahua in and out of the house telling his wife, “He warned me…” and other things indicating he had some idea, in advance, that Fogen was gonna bag him his prey either 2/26/2012 or soon.

          They knew this would happen at some point. SPD protected a guy whose criminal intent was to catapult himself into a position of power by victimizing someone he would blame for the situation to make himself a hero. This was not unexpected.

          They were gonna create a warlord in RTL. They would have succeeded if there was ANYTHING that could have been held against Trayvon Martin or his family. Fogen chose the wrong victim and it blew up in his face.

          He may still be saved by the SPD circling the wagons around him. We shall see.

          • anita says:

            ~ Malisha I believe every word of this. It’s shocking, the extent some people may be going to. It must be bigger than I ever imagined. It’s deep & scary.

          • pat deadder says:

            I believe fogen has something on SPD.

        • Tzar says:

          Uncle is a deputy
          father is a former magistrate
          mother is a former court clerk
          Best Friend is an air marshall and a former SPD LEO
          brother in law’s dad used to work at the DA’s office (rumor)

          and he ingratiated himself with the police department at three levels
          whoever he called at NEN at 7:18 after he killed Trayvon

          Give me those connections and I can get away with a lot too

          • aussie says:

            This is exactly what is wrong with the system all throughout America. With judges, prosecutors, police chiefs etc all being LOCAL and ELECTED, the smaller the place the bigger the chance “certain” people are friends of theirs. So even without any “official” corruption (ie bribes) they will tend to lean towards people they went to school with or who donated to their election campaigns.

            This automatically makes the LE system “belong” to that class of people. So the bias against the “other” people is built in, no matter how fair the incumbents try to be or think they are being.

            In a small town where the judge’s son is the sheriff and his daughter the prosecutor, how much of a fair trial is possible for anyone?

            These positions should be appointed, on merit, on a state-wide basis, and ensuring nobody serves in their home town. That would be the minimum first step to a FAIR system.

      • Thrace says:

        I had high hopes after watching Bernie in the first few hearings. Now – ho hum. Not that impressed. IMO, their big problem is not having a lot to work with due to the way the SPD and others handled the investigation from jump. And then add in a few loose cannon witnesses and downhill it goes. Just look at the ME’s office – what a joke, wet clothes in plastic bags and the ME the private note taker . The only real professionalism I’ve witnessed is the officer that gave Trayvon CPR and the two FDLE lab agents.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          BDLR asks WONDERFUL questions and after the.judge overrules an objection he VOLUNTEERS to rephrase the question. Today at work I literally screamed out “She didn’t ask you to rephrase the question WTF are you doing?”

          • anita says:

            I caught the exact moment you’re referring to. I just couldn’t believe it either. I can’t stand sucking up, ass kissing, I just don’t get it.

          • Tzar says:

            They are establishing a certain type of report with jury
            the exact opposite type that the defense is establishing

        • anita says:

          Yes I tho’t finally the one cop, ex marine, shaved head gave a damn to help poor Trayvon.

    • ZCBest says:

      Agreed Tee.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          Just to let you know:

          I took a nap and have just caught up on everyone’s comments. I have to go and watch the 2nd half of the gym owners testimony and proceed to the end of the day.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Apparently its against the rules to point out how,.when, and why the State effed up.

      In.regards to.the water.bottles it just shows how me.makes incomplete points. The logical.conclusion to the visual with the water bottles would have been to get Good to explain how two people lying.flat on top of each other were able to move in unison towards the sidewalk. The way Good described it they.would have to be lying on a skateboard.

      Time and again we scream GET EM BDLR and alas, a big whomp whomp

      • Thrace says:

        The only thing I picked up from that demo is that GZ lied about their positions on the sidewalk. GZ has their legs facing Good’s place but Good says both of them were on the sidewalk with legs facing south towards Brandi’s place. GZ probably shrimped his way onto the sidewalk and clunked his own head in doing so.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          That means the entire demo by BDLR was a fail since he didn’t do.that demonstration on his white board to let the jurors know what he meant.

          I also kept waiting for him to ask Good if he knew who Martin got from.the sidewalk to the grass without ever getting off of Zimmerman as other witnesses testified.

          • Thrace says:

            GZ never places both of them fully on the sidewalk – only the head banging description with their bodies on the grass and head on sidewalk. I think GZ moved it from the grass to the sidewalk hit his own head in doing so and then back into the grass – then he shot him. He lied about it because he brought on his own head injuries and had to make it seem more life threatening.

            Before Good’s testimony about both being on the sidewalk I had entertained ideas of his clunking his head on other things in the area. I still wonder if he ran into a tree branch at one point – those tiny cuts on the tip of his nose.

          • bettykath says:

            cuts on the tip of his nose is more likely from the sight on his gun due to recoil.

    • anita says:

      You have excellent points, they make me sick & sad. I wish you were wrong, but I’m afraid you’re not. ~for tee

    • Jun says:

      Not always

      Donald Montanez got convicted for shooting a black person and he tried to claim self defense

      and it is not only black males, as I notice, no matter the victim, they are dragged through the mud at trial

      As much as I realize there is racism against blacks, I am just saying it seems to be modus operandi to smear victims at trial by the defense and also to smear the witnesses for the state at trial

      I agree that there are some parts I did not like and criticize the job done but as I said before, the defense has no facts that support them, however I know they are gonna fight all the way through, and the state has to fight all the way through, like the Heat vs Spurs 2013 game 7 championship game

      I admit I felt the state let their guard down a couple times too but the fight is not over yet

      • Thrace says:

        It is, I can count how many trials of murdered woman I’ve watched where the defense tries to make she was a whore, druggie, reckless etc.. Smear the victim is the typical defense play.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          Very typical. This case is extra sickening because we are dealing.with an unarmed minor that the State keeps referring to as Mr.Martin. Even Fogen referred to him as “the kid” on the NEN recording.

      • Tee says:

        I am speaking about black males and they are treated differently than any other person in the world, think as you may but until you’ve comforted your husban, brother or evn your sister after loosing her boyfriend you will never understand. My husband still tells me that I don’t know what it its like because im biracial and don’t look black. It’s frustrating, that boy was 158lbs, my daughter weighs that much, but he’s a 12ft tall 250lb drugged out killer in their mind. And that’s what they want the

        • Jun says:

          I am not justifying it, but it’s how bad guys act, especially in court

          They try to justify it by smearing the victim, no matter the race or age

          When someone goes to trial for statutory rape, they try to blame the kid for it

          I dont like it and think it’s low brow but it is what it is

          Personally I dont think it will go over well with the judge or the mothers

          For example, when Japan raped and tortured and killed many Philipinos, Chinese, & Americans during ww2, even if a few of the Americans, philipinos, or Chinese were not the best people, it surely does not justify the massacres does it?

          While I agree there is racism against people who are black, and racism from black folks against blacks who are mixed at times, it still does not change the fact that anyone can be a victim

          For example, The Chinese were taken in as slaves to work sugarcane fields in Cuba along with black people, until they all banded together to overthrow the slave master

          Was the treatment any worse toward the Chinese vs The Blacks? They were both treated bad by slave masters

          Let’s just agree that what the defense is doing is disgusting and move on?

        • KA says:

          Tee, I am white, but have non white children. It seems hardest in the US for Latino and black males.

          I have 4 non white children including one of each of those two race/ethnicity.

    • texad says:

      Sadly, Tee, I agree with you. I had become somewhat optimistic midway in the State’s case and hoped beyond hope that THIS trial would be different. My real life experiences (after working at several levels in the criminal justice system for over 15 years-often being the 1st AA) taught me that these cases are usually about JustUs. I hoped this one would be different. But it is not.

      While George Zimmerman might still be convicted of something, it won’t be because the prosecutors did a great job. It will be an ugly victory. They let too much nonsense slide in. They are obviously going to protect the SPD at all cost. Hell, they are protecting Bill Lee. Why no question as to his statement early on that HIS investigation was over and GZ would not be charged. Why no questions to bring out the fact that Ben Crump only got involved because SPD had basically stopped their investigation? Why no question as to why trained police detectives did not make a written observation that GZ sounded as if he was possibly under the influence-because he was obviously slurring his words like crazy in his NEM call?

      And I do not ever remember in all my years in the court system where the father of the victim was called as a witness for the defense. The person who killed his son. Sweet baby Jesus and God up above.

      There are just no words. This is a political trial, and it ties in very nicely with the recent Supreme Court ruling that struck down the most important part of the Voting Rights Act. Folks who are the power brokers now recognize that by 2050 Black and brown people will be the majority. That’s a lot of power-in money, votes, networking opportunities, etc.

      I believe as Sybrina Fulton said- her youngest son is in Heaven. But there are many, many more sons who will be killed-both by racists like GZ and his supporters; and even by others who look like them who have a self hating psyche and continue to play checkers instead of chess.

    • Dee says:

      I totally agree the prosecution is not doing a good job. And I truly believe they are just appeasing the black community with this half-ass job they are doing. I am not a lawyer and could have done a better job than this. Something is differently up, watch my words. They are giving this case to the defense on a silver platter. Because they not bring people in that can show that Zimmerman was on top, just by the flow of blood that was on his head.

      I think they are not pushing this issue. They are just making the country believe that they are because they know we all are watching. This man is going to walk, and we have nothing to do about it. They will say that the jury made their decision. So If I were you, I would prepare for an innocent verdict, because they are not proving their point.

    • ada4750 says:

      I agree also with Tee. I can’t tell their motivations but the prosecution is weak so far. Everything. Direct, cross, x-cross. Experts.

      Honestly, i believe BDLR used to get it much easier all along his career when he was conducting trials against poorly defended guys. Then, no matter how lousy was his proof, he would get a conviction most of the time. My feeling. I hope to be wrong.

  47. Trained Observer says:

    MOM gesturing with hands aflutter while yammering about stiplling patterns. Another deposition on either animation or illustration … in order to enter into evidence. Alll kind of confusing, but at least no one (with any sense) can say this trial is cut and dried.

    • Thrace says:

      Heehee. I couldn’t figure out what he was talking about. That’s why I drew the impression he was raring to get out the door and in front of a TV camera.

  48. sparger says:

    I just got back. There is an animation video the defense is going to present as evidence. Can the state have their own animation video made.

  49. Thrace says:

    That’s it till 8:30 tomorrow. MOM is a hot hurry to get out of there, must have TV interviews for tonight lined up.

  50. chi1224 says:

    Looks like nothing more for tonight.
    Have a great night everyone!

  51. Thrace says:

    Bernie complaining about DiMaio and wanting to depose him again. Has to do with the animation and gun shot angle.

  52. boyd says:

    they can allow Trayvon’s tiny pot eel to be entered in. but Fogen’s drugs and under the care of a psychologist is a no. Then it’s a fixed trial

    did they fire Rao yet?

  53. Trained Observer says:

    Hearing tomorrow morning at 8:30, apparently.

  54. Thrace says:

    Back on – Mantei is going to depo Schumacher (the animation creator) and back in court to resolve it at 8:30. MOM talking proffers for tomorrow and that will be a wait and see.

  55. Trained Observer says:

    Fogen briefly seen at far right, vigorously wiping his snout. (Don’t think he realized he was on camera)

  56. thejbmission says:

    Hello all fellow Trayvonites,
    Now that we know Trayvon’s toxicology report is going to come into play, I think it’s time to get GZ’s medical records into play.
    Anyone who’s ever taken a diet pill knows how jittery and aggressive it can make a person. GZ was taking Adderall at the time of the shooting. It’s in his medical report. It’s time for the State to get an expert or two to address the effects of Adderall. Adderall is often abused by a lot of people. GZ shows no signs of ADHD. He wanted Adderall to control his weight and give him a little pep in his step. He used it to get high.
    Now that the defense has opened this door, I think it’s only fair to discuss GZ’s drug problem. C’mon State!! Strike back..

    • Rachael says:

      That is true and well and good but the difference here is that there is actual blood-level proof that Trayvon had marijuana and metabolite on board.

      When you say GZ used Adderall to get high, that is speculation. He might have had even WORSE symptoms if he had been taking his benzos regularly and then abruptly stopped.

      And it is NOT fair to discuss GZ’s drug problem because it is total speculation that he had one. If he was taking his medications as prescribed, it was not a problem.

      He could have as bad of a problem if he wasn’t taking them at all as if he was taking too much.

      Or not taking enough.

      I know someone said checking the pharmacy records and that might help, but again, there were no levels drawn on him –

      Which is absurd. Why would they draw blood levels on the slain victim and not on the shooter?

      But knowing that he was prescribe and was supposed to have been taking medications tells us NOTHING. It doesn’t tell us if he was taking them as he should, abusing them or not even taking them at all.

      • Malisha says:

        Why they drew blood levels on victim but not shooter?

        It was OK with them that the victim was the victim.
        They wanted to make sure the shooter didn’t become the defendant.

        This whole thing is about the corrupt SPD. All of it. They murdered Trayvon Martin by means of Fogen.

        • Dee says:

          Because Zimmerman knew these cops at the station, they were his friends because he hung their all the time. He wanted to be a cop but couldn’t get into the police force. However, that didn’t stop him from wanting to be a cop. That is why he felt he didn’t need a lawyer, because in his sick mind, he thought they were going to take up for him, and it seems he was right. His whole family is in the field of law.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        Rachael, what is metabolite? I’ve never heard of it.

        • Malisha says:

          When you take something into your body, your body changes it. That process is called metabolism. The results of the changing of substances (digestion, etc.) nets chemicals that are referred to as “metabolites.” If you take an aspirin, there is a “metabolite” of aspirin in your body when your body finishes working on it.

      • Jun says:

        However, due to the tiny amount, it means it could have either been second hand smoke or from weeks ago

        Because of this, Fogen’s medical and prescription history can come into play

        They can show how often he renewed his medications as proof he regularly took them

        and if they claim Fogen did not take meds that night, then they can argue how not taking drugs for his ADHD causes Fogen to be hyperactive

        • Dee says:

          Yes but will they do this. The prosecution is not proving a lot of the evidence. Just as they didn’t prove that the blood on Zimmerman head showed, he was bending front wards as he was bleeding not backwards.

          • Jun says:

            they can do so in rebuttal, as it is part of rebutting the defense’s claims of the head bashing or beating

      • fauxmccoy says:

        rachel — i know we share the same thoughts about lack of blood draw on the defendant … but i’d like to ask you a professional opinion

        the blood sample from trayvon had to be taken from the chest cavity (per autopsy and ME testimony) because no other blood was available. i had always heard that this distorts the results — would you know or have a resource available that would be more enlightening?

        i know i have google at my use, just wondering what you know.

    • Lynn says:

      Amen to GZ NOT showing signs of AHDH. I can assure you I couldn’t sit blankly for hours and neither could my 25 yr old AHDH daughter. Off medicine would be impossible and on medicine, well, let’s just say that overmedicated would be the only way to achieve anything resembling GZ. Pretty close to comatose I dare say.

      • Dee says:

        He’s on medication now, that why he gained so much weight in such a short time. Besides with all the money he has been collecting from the hate Trayvon group. He probably hasn’t eaten that well in his whole life.

  57. chi1224 says:

    Sophia33, here is the post:

    PiranhaMom says:
    July 8, 2013 at 11:31 am

    @chi –

    I’ve been screaming about this since this guy stepped into the witness box – but we’re all involved in “live chat” so by the time my posts are up, everybody is past my comment.

    Check last week’s videos – W, Th, F — he’s there faithfully all day long, always in jacket & tie, on the defense side, HIGHLY visible, 2nd row, 3 or 4th guy from the wall.

  58. Donna says:

    I noticed that when Mantei stated that the state had reason to belive that John Donnely may have been in the court room last week, Grace Zimmerman immediately looked like she was texted someone.

    It is not the first time I noticed such actions. She use to get up and leave the courtroom. Now she seems to be using a cell phone.

    I believe she is sharing information with the rest of the ztards.

    Anyone here have a way to contact the State to alert them?

    • Dee says:

      Yes, when the court first started she keeps going in and out of court, probably telling her parents what was going on. They put a stop to that. They caught her and probably told her she cannot keep going in and out of the court room. Because I have not seen her do that sense.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Donna –
      @Chi1224 –
      @Sophia –
      @Tzar –

      THANK YOU, re Mantei/Donnelly. I had to crash @ 4:15 p.m. (court time) as I had been up 36 hours straight. (Now I’m back after my nap.)

      This is good news. I’ll go back and look for this. It would be delicious to have Judge Debra order the jury to ignore this blowhard’s testimony.

  59. ZCBest says:

    Funny how the negative don’t seem to want to address my comments about the shit stirring they do. Am I scary or something? LOL

  60. Sophia33 says:

    I wish the defense would say that he was swaying. If Trayvon was swaying in that 711 video it would make it less likely for him to be able to fight GZ.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      If Trayvon’s alleged swaying is an indication that he was drugs, then O’Mara should be forced to take a drug test:

      • Malisha says:

        See, but a white man with a suit on is allowed to sway. But a pBa-lack youth should be standing at attention and saluting someone like Fogen to show his respect. See? Don’t make me have to remind you again.

        BTW, in South Africa, free marijuana was always handed out to the Black miners to keep them cheerful, mellow and happy while they were being worked to death at starvation wages. Everybody knows that marijuana is a palliative — now it is even used for cancer patients in hospice.

        • Tee says:

          The police used the same thing when they shot my sister’s boyfriend to death in Miami, his car was swaying into another lane like he was on drugs or drunk. They followed him & his cousin from a club then pulled them over. When he asked why he was being stopped he was shot in the head and the cousin was shot over 5 times the police threw a dead young man on the sidewalk and handcuffed him. No guns, drugs, alcohol was found and blood levels showed he was not drunk. They said they thought that he was going for a gun. Welcome to Florida. The next day they laid his family out on their front porch and searched his home, they would have continued had his cousin that’ a lawyer didn’t show up.

          • MedicineBear says:

            Oh fuk! No, no racial problems here . . . move along — that sht got fixed back in the Civil War!

          • KA says:

            Wow. That is horrible.

            There needs to be a general education class on what a citizens rights are and then taught to everyone.

            Free of charge, easily accessible.

          • jodiwankanobi says:

            wow T that is so incredibly sad and so very wrong!

    • willisnewton says:

      Your wish has been granted

      • Sophia33 says:

        I know. I was speaking about that decision to let it in. This is going to backfire on the defense.

  61. Sophia33 says:

    This is a long 15 minutes for the defense witness to get here.

  62. My Forehead Tho says:

    “But your honor, the victim was on birth control”

    ^Virtually the same argument if this was a rape case and Fogen was rapist

    • Trained Observer says:

      Not only that, but as we learned from that fool in Missouri, a woman’s body sort of shuts down during “real rape” so pregnancy is never a concern.

  63. Dee says:

    I have never heard of marijuana causing someone to be angry, if anything he would have been hungry, unless it is lased with PCP or something. They had old people on weed for medication purposes.

    • chi1224 says:

      If it had been laced with anything that too would have shown up in the tox screen. Nope, all he had was calming, munchie induing THC in a very, very small amount. No big deal, and no future appeal issue!

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        I believe the judge has to let it in under FLA law… no matter how insignificant the amount of THC if it has any relevance to a case, it must be let in… the prosecution should be able to clean it up fairly easily as the research will show although TM may have been slightly impaired, it would not cause him to be violent, and if it had any effect at all, it would have been to mellow him out… IMO

      • Dave says:

        Seeing that Trayvon had walked all the way back from 7-11, without opening either the Skittles or the watermelon drink, it’s clear that he didn’t have the munchies.

        • chi1224 says:

          He never had the chance to open anything because he was being stalked and chased by Fogen, besides why would he eat/drink in the rain when the dry house was minutes away?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Pot helps some cancer patients — unfortunately not all — with pain.

    • Malisha says:

      made him want to share Chad’s skittles.

    • KA says:

      …and Trayvon had money to buy more food, but he did not. He also did not eat the food he had….

      he wasn’t high on anything…

      BTW Lots of people carry lighters who do not smoke anything. They do it for light outside or the electricity going out.

  64. Jun says:

    Also, if the defense wants to argue that ADHD affected Fogen’s memory of what transpired, then it can be argued his testimony is not reliable at all, and the defense still loses LOL

  65. Jun says:

    It’s only fair that if the defense wants to argue the incredibly small amount of THC, which the victim could have just as easily inhaled second hand smoke, then Fogen’s prescriptions come in

    If they want to claim Fogen did not take his prescriptions, then the effects of not taking the prescriptions and the effects of such due to his psychoactive mental should come into play

    Then they can go over how often Fogen renewed his medications as well for proof he took them

    Trust me this is a bad door to open

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      My thoughts exactly.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Haven’t seen any proof that its a bad door for anyone except the the Pross unless someonetells me ffor sure his background is coming in. Why didn’t the State get a ruling on it before they rested? Didn’t Lauer open the door?

      • MedicineBear says:

        “Why didn’t the State get a ruling on it before they rested? Didn’t Lauer open the door?”

        Do we know that they didn’t? There have been many sidebars that we are not privy to. I’m asking.

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      Jun I hadn’t thought about the second hand smoke aspect…hmm food for thought

    • Dee says:

      I doubt seriously that Zimmerman was on his medication the night. He killed Trayvon. You can look into his eyes and see that he was acting strange. Like he was hyped up which ADHD does. I thought he was crazy when I first saw him. He was even looking at MOM up and down when the first went into court. Why is the prosecution not using any of these things? Something is really strange about how they are not bringing in certain stuff to me. I hope this is not just a appeasing this situation for the blacks, just to make them think that they really want to convict this guy. Because they are leaving a lot of information out that should have been in. Especially the flow of the blood on Zimmerman head, which shows that he was on top while his head was bleeding.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        The nosebleed photo shows the pupils of his eyes like pinpricks even though it was dark out.

      • KA says:

        The day after his PA confirmed his medications. He was either taking them, or he was not…I do not think either have good results.

        We can see if he gets his refills as expected. I would expect that to be compelling evidence that he is taking them.

  66. MedicineBear says:


    Is it possible that fogen’s prior bad acts (door opened with O’Smarma asking Jenna “Ever see him lose his temper?”) and fogen’s Rx psychotropic drugs (door opened with PA’s medical report) HAVE been ruled admissible (at sidebars we are not privy to) but the State is waiting until Rebuttal to bring it in — after the duhfence has rested so the duhfence will not be able to call more of their own expert witnesses?

    Bueller? . . . Bueller?

  67. chi1224 says:

    You know what is going to be fun to watch is when the judge strikes O’donnell’s testimony when the prosecution comes in tomorrow- or maybe even later today with this delay- with PROOF that guy sat in the court room last week… I’m looking forward to that smack down.

    • tashatexas77048 says:


      • chi1224 says:

        Initially the prosecution didn’t know he was in court last week. Before the Richardson hearing either Guy or Mantei said- they hadn’t verified it yet, but got word that O’Donnell had been in court…. the judge said that isn’t what’s addressed at a Richardson hearing… so I’m convinced when the prosecution reviews the trial footage and see O’Donnell then there will be a new hearing on him. He is going to be impeached bad at lightening speed. So much for his fake tears for Fogen!

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Chi1224 –

          Warms my heart! Thanks for bird-dogging this!

          I felt I was the lone voice in the wilderness …

    • Dee says:

      Yea, somebody is checking these media sights, because someone just said that. Then I heard him say this in court, that was no coincident.

      • chi1224 says:

        Makes ya wonder doesn’t it…. either way, BUSTED!

      • Thrace says:

        I think he’s being in the courtroom would be a different issue, as in a different type of motion or hearing. At least that’s what I thought JN said from the bench.

        • KA says:

          That is what I thought.

          Since the witness now LIED about hearing it the first time and the defense well knew he was in the courtroom last week….would that not be an issue for the defense as well?

          Like sanctions/suspensions?

    • Sophia33 says:

      Has there been any pictures produced of him being there last week? Does anyone have it?

      • chi1224 says:

        I have not had a chance to watch the old footage, but somebody else did and he’s there. I’ll see if I can find PM’s post.

        • Sophia33 says:

          Cool thanks. Be nice if we can get this info out tonight.

          • 2dogsonly says:

            He was defiantly in court from as far back as w18, school teacher. I thought he was tubby’s daddy until twitter feed lit up like Xmas.

            JN is going to be pissed.

            This is the worse defense lawyers ever!

    • ks says:

      Yep! Like I said upthread that guy is going to lucky if he avoids a perjury charge.

      Overall, I don’t get the incessant negativity of some here. Today has been a solid day for the prosecution. ALL of the defense witnesses were terrible. The “voice identificators” were obvious and plainly biased. The MMA guy called into question crucial points about GZ’s story.

      The pot stuff wasn’t great but, I think the defense will make a mess of it as usual and I take some comfort in the fact that every attempted slander of TM has failed and this is the courtroom and not the outhouse where they can just toss anything out there.

      • chi1224 says:

        I agree ks, I get so fired up during trial, can’t help it, it’s so emotional for all of us, but when I calm down and reflect on it all I still think the prosecution has a rock solid case. I really do.

  68. Jun says:


    The defense can whine and cry for hearings saying it is unfair and then they try to be sneaky

    IMO, the state audio experts should come in as punishment for the defense’s hypocrisy

  69. disappointed says:

    Don’t let it in? The marijuana? JN said it would come back on reversal. So you want the family to have to sit through a second trial? You do not have to like the ruling but respect JN for planning ahead not to get a second bite for this idiot to walk. This trial is not about US it is about the Martin family getting closure.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      I hope they get it because this is so sad. A child went to get skittles and tea and ended up stalked and killed. So sad….

      • disappointed says:

        Exactly. The Jury in the long run will be mad at the defense for disrespecting the deceased child, Trayvon.

      • Dee says:

        Don’t worry if he walks they will be more of our children killed in this manner. You better believe that. This law is not for white’s people. This stand your ground was meant to kill off the blacks and allow them to get away with it. You see they don’t need sheets to cover their heads anymore when they have laws like this. The KKK are not in sheets anymore. They are in offices of power making laws such as this one.

        • Beverly says:

          Do you mean to indict a whole, entire judicial and legal system? No doubt there are problems and painful situations, but really….whites, all, sheets, how Over broad do you mean to be?

          • KA says:

            I am white, but I have to say the systemic bias in the judicial system makes what she said seem like it is the case.

            I saw numbers yesterday on SYG rules. Out of the states that had the rules, there was an increase in homicides and in the case where a white person claimed SYG, they were granted it 36% of the time. When a AA person claimed it, it was granted 3% of the time.

            That is a systemic bias that can no longer be tolerated.

            I think, when this trial is over, we should work as a focus/innovative group and figure out ways to mobilize change in our communities. This is a disease is all of our states. We need people of all races to band together to fight these injustices.

        • KA says:

          I do not think it was meant to kill off blacks, but I do agree that highlights systemic racial bias that is present in so many areas of this country.

          The threshold for “reasonable fear” does not seem to meet an equivalent standard based on race. It is unjust, unfair, and I honestly fear for the future of my children. I am white, but I have four nonwhite children.

    • PerfectlyImperfect says:

      Plus everyone knows the effects of Marijuana. These women have either smoked it themselves or their own kids have, so I don’t think it is such a huge deal. I just think Zimmies medications should come into play too.

      • HereslookingatYou says:

        yep I said the same..PI

      • Eric says:

        How do you get zimmermans med recs in play? This trial is showing the wickedness of white people. How does the state, if they want to win run their case like this? If whites can chase us down and do this, we should return the favor.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      Thank You, disappointed, for keeping things into perspective.

    • KA says:

      I do think JN is on the State’s side. I think she WELL thinks that GZ murdered Trayvon.

      She does not want an appeal and she feels this is “recoverable” for the State with other aspects of their case. She knows pot does not make you violent and feels the State can counter this submission.

      I think the State should introduce some peer reviewed reports that show the number of 16/17 who have tried pot are like 70% and above. It would be educational for the jury who may be clueless.

      I would be thrilled if she also allowed GZ’s med log into evidence.

      • God is there says:

        I don’t think JN is on the Defense or the State’s side, but I do believe that she is on the side of what is right and just and fair; and hopefully so are the jurors. Marijuana doesn’t cause a person to become violent, it actually makes you somewhat docile and laid back. What about the drugs fogen was on? His drugs caused hallucinations and he might have well been hearing things as well.

  70. chi1224 says:

    Sorry everyone I had to step out for a few min is court over for the day? Did I miss the ruling on the animation? My screen just has the court seal

  71. HereslookingatYou says:

    Sandra Layne..
    they tried to use the drug crazed grandson
    and she still got convicted 2nd degree and she was 75…

    • fauxmccoy says:

      good call! i remember that. it’s not as if this is the first time any of these prosecutors have had to deal with this situation.

  72. Eric says:

    This trial absurd. The fix is in. I shouldn’t be shocked. This is America after all. Only in America can you be black and run from your killer and then be labeled a thug. Natalie Holloway, the drunken slut from Alabama walked off with her killer,and she was the victim. Only in America can you be black, declared guilty, and then executed for whatever “crime” a white,or whitish people Accuses us of. We, as blacks, have no rights that others must respect. Okay! Goose, handed. Two way street. Enough is enough. If whites can hunt us,

    • ks says:


    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Some don’t believe it.. I have many AA friends and they talk about this all the time even to law enforcement. They just look the other way and keep their retirement coming in so sad.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Really? Gtfoh with this b.s. ALL RACES are here fighting for Trayvon.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        Look past that yes it is all races but I have spoken to blacks and they are in it. It is true I’m looking outside but I have felt it personally with members of my congregation. Its true we all fight but it takes awareness and people admitting there is a race problem here.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          You are at the wrong place talking that bullshit. Go to a racist site THIS ISN’T IT.

          • HereslookingatYou says:

            I see no fix in.. the judge is doing what she needs to not be reversed..
            GOOD folks of all color have come to gether to voice they think the man that killed Trayvon Martin needs to be held accountable and that’s what this trial is about.
            Do we like every ruling….no
            but that’s for the prosecution to adapt and over come..
            but this black white bull shit save it..and eye for eye ..juvenile
            no time for that crap..
            and not that it should matter,,
            but I”M BLAAAAkuh

      • pat deadder says:

        Tasha come on I’m white Have I ever gone through what black people have and still do NO. Can I try to understand YES .Will I ever know NO.But my god this foolishness has to stop.Fogen would not have chased Trayvon if he was white and if he had he would be in prison by now and the treehouse crowd wouldn’t have sent him money.

    • Beverly says:

      People can disagree without the “fix’ being in; that is a very serious claim. IF you really believe that to be true, you should take action thru a State Bar or Judicial Assn to make your case.

      • HereslookingatYou says:

        if every ruling went for the prosecution.. the other side would say the fix is in..
        I think the Judge is just making rulings and not wanting an error

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        And while they are at it please stop typing that ignorant ish here. This is not the place for conspiracy theorists.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        Our community center is doing so to push to make things better. My church works with people in the jail system and it is hard listening to the many issues. Will continue to try that is why when people suspect something speak out to help.

        No one should have to call Al Sharpton and mega-star to get one man arrested. GZ definitely should have been arrested like any other person, tested for drugs then at least booked. It is hard to swallow for some people…. This is happening all over the world.. Trayvon is only one case… It is important for people to write their congressmen and community leaders. And stand up for right peacefully. Picket to bring awareness like is happening right now at many universities when something isn’t being honestly reported. It worked in the 60’s and it worked in 2012…

        People can not be cowards any longer.

        • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

          Excuse me my upper post was in reply to Beverly’s comment….”the fix doesn’t mean money.” “it could be position” clarification.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Eric — Natalie Holloway used dreadful judgment in leaving her group with strangers, but you are way over the line in calling her a drunken slut. Why not save your desire to render analytical abilities for West’s ice-cream licker spawn?.

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        Thank you. Im trying to keep my cool but…

      • Thrace says:

        Another example of a LE agency sweeping it under the rug until the parent’s caught the media’s attention. Even then nothing really happened to the murdering pyscho till he murdered another young woman.

      • Eric says:

        Calling Holloway a drunk slur,who’s viewed as a “victim” is over the line? I think not!. It’s par for the course. No matter what you people do to others, it’s always incumbent on others to prove to that they are not wicked. Whites have two set of rules, one for you, and one for everyone else. And depending how dark everyone else is, will determine how those rules will be applied. Holloway, who walked away to ride on the Dick carosel needs no explanation for her behavior. Why, because she is white. Martin, who ran from his murderer basically thru white lawyers, who seem intent on throwing this case, has to explain why he decided to run from an Individual who curbed crawled him in truck,before chasing him on foot. I’m glad that this happened. No more pc. If the rules don’t apply to whites, then they don’t apply to blacks. If when can be hunted because you deem us guilty, then you and can be hunted because you’re white,racist, or whatever. Enough is enough.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Please do not give up just yet Eric. Even with the speck of THC, there is still no blood on Trayvon’s hands, nails or clothes.

      He is still screaming “Get off” on the 911 call.

      He still ran from his stalker.

      Rachel still heard Trayvon ask the stalker “Why are you following me for” and then the shove.

      The witnesses still seen GZ on top of Trayvon.

      GZ still told all of those lies when confronted the lies changed to more lies.

      GZ was still on his phone seconds after putting a round in the chest of an unarmed teen.

      • KA says:

        If they are going to argue paranoid, it seems that Trayvon actually had good reason to fear him….is that paranoia?

        I pray to God these mothers on the jury are aware that a hige majority of teens of all races, economic statuses, and backgrounds experiment with pot.

        Heck, it is legal is my state (over 21 though).

        I worry because wasn’t it FL who did that stupid drug test of all state program recipients costing millions of dollars and finding almost nothing? I worry because this is a representative example of those voters that would support those candidates….

    • MedicineBear says:

      The fix is in . . . OR . . . is this case iconic and the typical day-in-day-out fix is being exposed for ALL to see?

      This case feels bigger than just another unpunished black murder. I hope it is and I hope that Karma has gotten our national attention, this is the opportunity to heal so much inequity and oppression that has plagued us for centuries.

      I know nothing of the jurors other than they are white/Hispanic women. Native American tribes used to have their elder women councils make decisions for the tribes because women have a unique sense of making sound decisions — considering the effects their decisions would have on the next seven generations.

      This is a special trial. Justice for the oppressor. Justice for Trayvon. Justice for us all because we are ALL Trayvon.

      Justice is speaking to the jurors’ hearts. They are taking back their power of the Wise Women Council. This case is very simple: What happened to Trayvon is what we warn our children about — run away from creepy strangers who are following you.

      This is a huge opportunity for societal healing if we have the courage to do the right thing in this case — all the Justice in our hearts is resonating with the pure simple Justice in the jurors’ hearts. We are all so tired of plutocracy. We are all so hungry for healing. I pray the jury feels their Great Destiny and proudly steps into that mantle. They are all white or beige women. As am I.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        Well stated…

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Medicine Bear,

        Today, in my locale (I have five Tribal Governments within ten-minutes driving time from my home) we have women – often in the majority – on Tribal Councils.

        We have the greatest number of Native American Bands (Tribal Reservations -17) of any County in the US. Women continue to be powerful here.

        Thank you for your strength through this trial.

      • KA says:

        I am hoping that, like the Arias trial, the jurors were not overall fond of the actions of Travis, and even some thought he may have used her and there could have been emotional abuse, they did not think he deserved death at the hands of Jodi. They did not believe he did anything to deserve the killing he got.

        The lies were too numerous and there was an obvious coverup and changing of details, facts, and stories with Jodi so they did not really believe what she said at any point.

        My prayer is that the jurors see Trayvon as a person, a barely 17 year old person who had no other agenda than going to the store and returning safely.

      • God is there says:

        I pray you are right in all that you have said. Its time for healing in so many areas and in so many lives. I pray that you right.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Eric –

      May Gitchie Manitou grant you strength and peace and forbearance so that we of all colors can continue to stand together in love and understanding to bring Justice for Trayvon.

      This is not a Black Issue.

      This is a Black, White, Brown, Yellow and Red issue.

      No race can fight alone for justice.

      Aloha and Mahalo, Eric.

      • KA says:

        Injustice for some of us, is the absence of justice for all.

        I am white and fight everyday to make accountable those that spend injustice, death, and pain for others.

        We are all Justice for Trayvon.

        He is all of our sons. We have GOT to stop this profiling injustice that has cost far too many lives.

        • God is there says:

          Yes, let it be so; Let it come to pass. Too many hearts have been broken, too many tears have been shed, Too many wounds still open and in need of healing. Yes, let it be so! HEAL THE LAND!

    • Ms.X says:

      I feel you, but please don’t get yourself in trouble. Sorry, but you just have to keep it in or write poetry or make a painting about it. Please channel your feelings into some sort of non-violent activism, and please let your personal righteousness allow you to be a leader above reproach. Personally, I would like to see all those concerned with justice inflict a swift & financially painful consequence on the state of FL. Like you, my heart is broken. I am very afraid for our sons, especially knowing most young people are fools. I know my son is. But that doesn’t mean any of them deserve to die. I (mostly) grew out of being a fool & I want my son to live long enough to do the same.

      Personally, I won’t go back to FL. I’m going to ask To Joyner to pull his festivities out, though I know he won’t do it because he makes too much money. He might consider it if his patrons demand it.

      Brother, I hug you & share your frustration. Please seek a positive & productive avenue. Brainstorm & exercise your personal leadership. Learn martial arts & how to use a gun incase you need it. Get your friends to do the same. Sponsor a young man if you can. We do deserve to protect ourselves. God bless you.

      • yes! I feel you too eric. and I agree with @MsX !

        Thank you for reminding me about this not mentioned much issue of the state of Florida’s financial interest in this case!

        The gunning down of an innocent kid just because some idiot thought he could didn’t sit right with the rest of the world!

        Florida is the MOST visited destination on earth! we NEED visitors of all colors in order to survive. people all over the world are STILL morally interested and the rest are financially invested in the outcome and so are the politicians and business here!

        early on the law makers came out and publicly condemned the killer and made it clear the he had NO Protection under their laws!

  73. Nellie Nell says:

    Wonder which idiot at treehouse gave him the animation idea.

    • Dee says:

      The only idiot I know is Frank Taafee, and I wouldn’t put anything pass that nut. I truly believe that he was Zimmerman mentor, myself. He was probably the one that told him to keep an eye on the blacks in the neighbor. He already said that the black’s that is in the neighborhood should be escorted when they are walking around. What kind of crap is that. Well MOM said it is t Mr.Shoemarker that made the animations.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        WTH!!!! I do not listen to Frank the Tank. I heard him a few times back in April or May of last year and he was so ridiculous that I swore to never listen to him again. If he comes on my screen I change the channel before he utters one word. I have not been listening to any commentary on TV because a lot of people thinks that it was okay for GZ to kill a kid that he had no business chasing in the 1st place. It makes me sick!

  74. Dee says:

    Is the judge going to let it in or not?

    • Deborah Moore says:

      They are in recess, waiting for the animator to get there, meet with Defense and State and then (maybe) get in the box to testify. She asked them to let her know when they will be ready to proceed.

  75. mrsdoubtfire says:

    West wants to suggest that Trayvon was a long term habitual user and that that he’d run out and he was in some sort of withdrawal. He will suggest withdrawal made him hyper vigilant or some such BS. The minute level of metabolite was just to get TM’s weed use into evidence.

    • Thrace says:

      I expect to hear references to the face chewing guy in Miami since they only found traces of pot in his system. Most of the experts don’t believe it and from what I can recall there are 100s of synthetic drugs that they can’t or don’t test for (as in making synthetic pot or stand alone drug).

    • Romaine says:

      do you think they will use the txt msgs where TM allegedly smuggled weed to his dads house, with the theory he smoked it all up tried to purchase more from the three stooges couldn’t and was aggressive due to having withdrawal symptoms? which I know to be BS, but they are an asinine bunch.

  76. disappointed says:

    It drives me crazy with all the negative comments. I get you all get worried but this IS Team Trayvon. The negative Nelly leads others to think we believe Trayvon did something wrong. I for 1 believe 110% is Trayvon. Have faith.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Copy and paste the comment from someone who thinks TM did something.wrong…

      • disappointed says:

        Tasha I am not even going to argue with you, everyday same thing. Prosecution this and that with you. Have you never watched a trial before? This crap is common. I sat with many other parents when our children were murdered trust me, this is not a big deal.

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          Ok just as I thought, quit the damned dramatics NO ONE is anti Trayvon and shame on you for starting that lie. Stick to the facts of dont type anything, no use lying on people we’ve been thru enough today.

          • ks says:

            YOU’RE telling somebody to quit the dramatics? Seriously? lol

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            Its a big deal to everyone who takes the time to come AGAIN STOP LYING ON PEOPLE HERE CLAIMING THEY ARE ANTI TRAYVON. You can disagree without lying on people I’m sure.

          • ZCBest says:

            Again I will tell you that it is your delivery. We don’t need all of that negativity here. In my opinion you are the opposite of soft, which is fine in the real world, but when amongst folks on the same side as you it comes across as dramatic overkill. All those who have been actively engaged in this blog for a long time have formed a community of friends, not that we don’t disagree. Of course we do and should challenge one another but we try to deliver and present better than I think you have been doing. Honestly, I don’t plan to respond to you ever again because I don’t believe my comment or anyone else’s will cause you to rethink your approach and try to catch some bees with honey. I just needed to say that.

            Some folks just don’t get it in my opinion. Delivery and presentation is everything.

            That is all.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          OMG. 😦 Condolences, disappointed.

          • disappointed says:

            Thanks Deborah.
            Tasha how about you go over to the tree house. Everyday they blame Trayvon. If we do not accept Trayvon for who he is and let it all out this will come back on reversal.. DO YOU THINK THE PARENTS WANT ANOTHER TRIAL? This is not about you. So you stop with the dramatics.

          • Trained Observer says:

            disappointed — I’m with Deborah on condolences for you, and am with you on other quarters knocking off with the ill-thought-out dramatics. It gets tiresome.

        • Sophia33 says:

          I didn’t know disappointed. My condolences to you. 😦

          • disappointed says:

            Thank you. My son died 9/11. The terroirst attorney’s tried to blame our children for going to work at the Towersor at a business near the Towers because they had been targeted before. This is all normal and believe me it will not make or break this case.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Really Big Hug.

        • elle says:

          Disappointed, I never have watched a trial before. You have really helped keep me sane through this. The people here have helped me understand all that is happening. I am truly grateful. My condolences.

          • Trained Observer says:

            disappointed — you more than so many of us undersand what Trayvon’s parents are experiencing, listening to such drivel. As we won’t forget Trayvon, none of us will forget the tragic human losses of 911.

        • ZCBest says:

          My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry for the loss of your son on 9/11.

          • disappointed says:

            Thanks guys! This is really not about my son though. This is more about what I think this family can handle and truly I do not believe Ms Fulton can sit through another trial and hear those screams. I would rather it come in than not. ZCBest you said it best up above, thank you. I doubt it did any good though.

          • ZCBest says:

            Not about your son but just a reminder that each of us are fighting through and for something. Thanks for that reminder. Maybe we can be more respectful of one another with that in mind.

            Yea, that one is a lost cause. I spoke my peace to the earless and now I choose light not darkness.

        • Sophia33 says:

          disappointed says:
          July 8, 2013 at 5:06 pm
          Thank you. My son died 9/11. The terroirst attorney’s tried to blame our children for going to work at the Towersor at a business near the Towers because they had been targeted before. This is all normal and believe me it will not make or break this case.

          They tried to blame your children for merely going to work? Niiice?! I am so sorry that you went through that and I never knew such a ridiculous argument was every made. Again, my condolences.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I am so sorry to hear about your child, you have my sympathy.

          When I 1st ventured onto this blog, it was so civil without name calling and attitude even when people had different opinions.

          Disappointed, you have always been one of the folks that keep me grounded in the quest for justice for Trayvon and I just want to say that I truly thank you for that. So keep up the good work in helping those of us who may get down sometimes to get back up and to keep pushing.

          If it were not for the negative comments that I have seen from a select few, I do not think I would get down so often. Trying to skip over them is sometimes very hard to do.

        • Sabrina B. says:

          Wow! So sorry. I can’t even imagine. Just being on here, I have found that I cannot complain about anything ever considering what some of you have and are going through. Sure makes a person humble.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i am so sorry for your loss and what must be an unbearable experience.

        • Sleuth says:


          My condolences regarding the loss of your son. I agree about not wanting the Fulton/Martin family to go through another trial. I expressed these concerns during jury selection.

          I was especially concerned about the pj who said he was born in Mexico but lived in Chicago. I, however, KNEW he was of East India familial origins, mainly due to my own background, and not because I once met one, or had a friend who was one.

          However, several resident commenters (not trolls) responded with snarky remarks, none of which indicated they were born in either Mexico or India.

          This particular pj sounded excited, and expressed his great appreciation for this country, and felt it was his duty to serve.

          However, the next day, he desperately wanted out, and we all know how his story ended. And never mind O’Dirty really wanted him on the jury, but that’s another story.

          I was never really concerned about the race/ethnicity of the jurors, I was more concerned about the State being able to select a jury of integrity and morals.

          I’ve seen just too many mistrials as a result of a juror’s misconduct while serving, and was so glad JN decided to have their notes locked up at the end of each day, and destroyed after the trial is over.

          And even after this trial is over, it’s never really over.

        • Eric says:

          Every day is the same? Get back to Tasha when your everyday is like a black persons. Have you ever lived as a black person? Until you do shut the fuck up.

        • pat deadder says:

          Disappointed I’m so sorry I can’t imagine your pain and the pain of being victimized again in court.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I do not think that Trayvon has done anything wrong. The pot is a non issue because I know the effects that it has on a person and I am sure that some on the jury will too. I hope the state gets right on the witness to rebut what the desperate defense is trying to do. They know damn well that weed makes a person mellow as can be. I am sure that those people have seen movies Cheech and Chong, How High, Fast Times at Ridgemont High and other movies where the characters are stoners and how the weed slows all the senses.

      That still does nothing to the fact that there was no GZ DNA on the kids hands, nails or sleeves!

      You can certainly tell they are desperate.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        oh hell — anyone old enough to have seen ‘the big chill’ as their last movie would have enough information on board.

        • KA says:

          Bill Chill was a favorite movie for a long time.

          I have never smoked pot, but honestly, I am only one of the few adults my age that haven’t.

          I think I read that the statistic of a 16/17 year old trying pot is at around 70%.

          For someone to say he deserved it or he was a “thug” would be writing off 70% of this county’s youth.

          I have to say I cried after the pot decision by JN. I think the prejudice WAY outweighs the value in this case. I pray the prosecutors can overcome this and introduce the prescribed meds for GZ and their side effect.

          Maybe even tie together his gun interest/purchase with the prescribing of the drugs.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            KA — i understand your worries, i cannot say that i am thrilled with this latest ruling. i do know that all prosecutors have had to deal with this precise issue though and it is nothing new.

            i don’t think there is ANY way that those phone pics/texts are coming in unless the state makes a grievous error and ‘opens the door’ so to speak on character issues. i just do not see that happening.

  77. My Forehead Tho says:

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      That is useless to us. The jurors are the only ones that count.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        It may not be useless to all remember this site is to inform us. I never saw this before; heard about it.

        • Rachael says:

          Doesn’t matter. It is common knowledge. That was one of the complaints – that they did a toxicology on the victim but not on the shooter. WHY DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND? THAT DOES US NO GOOD NOW!!!!!

          • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

            I knew that from the beginning. Remember when this blog started I believe it was mentioned how evil that was.. GZ was given special treatment. Father is a judge and mother was the court reporter.. It took Al Sharpton and almost every star to get this loose canon arrested.. I know about it …

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:


    • Rachael says:


      We do NOT know if he was on them, taking them as directed, more, less or at all.

      No drug blood levels were taken, the list is USELESSS@!!!@#%$@#4

      • Thrace says:

        Another screw up by the Sanford PD. If one of their cops had shot someone they would drug tested them. Hell in most companies if you have an accident on the job they drug test you.

      • My Forehead Tho says:

        Hopefully the State notifies the jury of that when Trayvon’s toxicology report is presented.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          you would think, but the two issues are technically unrelated.

          • pat deadder says:

            I’m thinking about my negative stuff sometimes.I get discouraged sometimes but between Mr Leatherman and you all and the Prosecution’s next move things seem to go the other way so I’m counting on rebuttlal or whatever the heck it’s called.Although we complain about what the SPD didn’t get; in realitydidn’t they get a gold mine the idiot could have exercised his right to remain silent and we wouldn’t have all his BS stories. I’ve made a new rule for myself Imagine what Trayvon’s loved ones are going through.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @pat deadder who says

            Imagine what Trayvon’s loved ones are going through.

            i absolutely think that is the right approach. if the martin/fulton family can remain calm and dignified in the face of that which is unacceptable, we should too.

      • KA says:

        Is there no way to get it admitted?

        As they argued that levels could determine Trayvon’s actions, why would it not determine GZ’ actions?

    • bellesouth says:

      What are the possible side effects of temazepam (Restoril)?

      Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

      Stop using temazepam and call your doctor at once if you have any of these serious side effects:

      weak or shallow breathing;
      fast or pounding heartbeats;
      confusion, slurred speech, unusual thoughts or behavior;
      hallucinations, agitation, aggression;

  78. chi1224 says:

    Did I miss the ruling on the animation??

  79. looolooo says:

    Is it me, or has Trent’s YouTube channel been taken down?! Anyone else getting …..This video is private screen?

  80. Puck says:

    If my inference is correct, EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOwnOpinion is suggesting “we” find MOM and West in order to commit violence upon them.


    Seems like an attempt to paint us as some kind of angry mob that would consider physical force if we don’t like how things are going. (Interesting, that’s more of a Tea Party/gun nut philosophy, e.g. “If ballots don’t work, bullets will.”)

    Perhaps the Professor or Crane might want to take a look at my exhange with him or her at the link above.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

      Absolutely incorrect. I expect the public to find them and cry out for the victim. First make and official complaint to the BAR ASSOCIATION…for what is being done. There is a limit to lawyer tactics in a courtroom. Nothing like the power of a pen and picket signs they have violated so many attorney laws.

      Your mind is so far off the chain PUCK… My boyfriend is a cop. so don’t put words in peoples mouth….

      • Puck says:

        And I was supposed to infer this from “guess”? Find the lawyers. To do what? Guess. Oh, I know what you mean, file a complaint to the bar association.

        Sure, that’s the first thing someone would guess.

        Are you threatening me with your cop boyfriend?

        • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

          Go to sleep.. are you on the same meds GZ is on? It appears your mind set is on a lower level. Gutter might I add,,,, I prefer not to communicate with you any longer. As my title states: Everyone Is Entitled To Their Opinion..

          Live it and learn it…

        • jodiwankanobi says:

          puck, i saw what you saw and i got the same impression you did..Certainly wasn’t a call to cry out for the victim.

          • Puck says:

            well, again, what does one logically infer from “guess” in this context?

            and then a lame attempt at backpedalling, following by threatening me with her cop boyfriend.

            but EIETTOO flipped out on me and basically said i was retarded or something… gee, wonder how i got those three degrees.

            this person has been pissing people off all day.

  81. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    Why aren’t GZ medications evidence if Marijuana is?

  82. willisnewton says:

    Just read the state’s motion about the animation the defense prepared. Clearly a work of total fiction.

    Apparently the defense got two people in motion capture suits to dress up and go to the RATL and follow directions.

    THe animator based their positions on whatever the defense felt like telling him, including that TM was left handed, that the position of the bodies could be determined by how the shell casing ejected, and that how many blows were struck by the victim, etc.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      This would not be an issue if the state had thought to do something similar.

      • ks says:

        No, that’s not it. It’s a legal issue because it’s a bogus animation and a dubious attempt to “testify” for GZ besides from being given to the prosecutors late. Whether the state should have made something similar is not the legal issue.

        • Sleuth says:

          Exactly! Sounds like “The Robert Plant Girls/Guy” have been watching some of LLMPapa and Trent videos.

  83. Woow! says:

    Is J N wearing a wig?

    • Dave says:

      I think so. A lot of Jewish women wear wigs because of a religious prohibition against exposing their own hair in public.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        my understanding is that is orthodox women in particular. we have noted what appeared to be a trim/style change not long ago. i know some wealthy bald men have a number of toupees in varying length to make it appear as if their hair grows out and then gets trimmed, but i cannot see someone going through such lengths for religious purposes.

        then again, maybe she does.

        • Susan Moore says:

          If she is wearing it for religious reasons, then she would have to be very orthodox. Has she ever held a hearing late on Friday or on a Saturday? No orthodox Jew would ever be at work at or after sun down on Friday, or on Saturday before sun down (because of the Sabbath).

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes, she does work late on fridays and hold saturday hearings, which is why i discounted that possibility (that wig was because of orthodoxy).

      • Dave says:

        On the other hand, she sometimes works on Saturdays.

        • Susan Moore says:

          then she is most definitely not orthodox and, if she is wearing a wig, it definitely isn’t for religious reasons.

  84. Johnnie says:

    I will go back and review Dr. Bao’s testimony but I believe he left it open ended; he told West that is your opinion when he was discussing the effects of marijuana He stated “it could have and could have not.”

    • Sophia33 says:

      Bao was a disaster. For someone who had testified in numerous cases before, he didn’t look good.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        agreed – he was a flipping wild card. BDLR had interviewed him the day prior to his testimony (maybe 2 days). bao never said a word about the two opinions he had changed — namely how long a victim could live with that injury and if the MJ had an effect.

        i understand that the ME is appointed by the state, is an independent agency from the state’s attorney, but DAYUM that was miserable.

        • Sophia33 says:

          Bao said he spoke with BDLR. He didn’t say he was interviewed my him. Bao was gonna say what Bao wanted to say. Again, surprising since he testified before.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            they had a 40 minute meeting to discuss evidence and testimony. clearly, yes, bao was going to say whatever he wanted to, whether he talked over lawyers or the judge. he apparently has testified a few hundred times and there is no excuse for his court room behavior.

            his accent is irrelevant to me — some of the best surgeons i have had are foreign nationals. i can even understand him changing his opinion on scientific matters, that is what he should do.

            his court room behavior and not cluing people in to his changed opinion were disastrous for the state, but this prosecutor did not get to pick who performed an autopsy long before they were handed the case. what the hell could anyone else done in that situation?

        • Sophia33 says:


          I agree his accent is irrelevant. But he is pigheaded it appears.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            agreed — but he’s probably brilliant, just not suited for courtroom appearances.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Neither here nor there, the Judge let it in and the stupid ass ME opened the door.

      You know he was a fuck up when BDLR asked him if the wound on TM’s chest is where the heart is located and he said, “I cannot tell from just look, would hab to cut chess opin to see.”

      ???? You’re the ME and you don’t know where organs are anatomically unless you are looking at the person’s innards?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        you are unaware that there are some people born with a birth defect of having their heart located on the right sides of their bodies, i presume? he gave the scientifically correct medical answer.

        yes, he was a wild card but you making fun of an immigrant’s accent is pretty low.

      • Dave says:

        I was very impressed with Dr. Bao although he gave each side’s attorneys fits. He never pretended to remember details of what he did 16 months previously and he refused to state as fact anything that he wasn’t certain was true. Most importantly , he clearly differentiated fact from opinion and was intelligent enough and honest enough to change his opinions when new facts warranted it and forthrightly state when and why he changed his opinions.

      • sadlyyes says:

        my dad was an ME,that is just balderdash,i think the guy wanted limelight,like the old LA coronerDr.Lee also Chinese….it was BDLRs job to reel him in however imo….my da,was very lay back guy,never jumped to wild conclusions

      • Sleuth says:

        Hi Tasha,

        I, personally, think BDLR has a tendency to run his questions too fast by those he’s questioning. I noticed this way back in 3/2011.

        To take a phrase from Miss Rachel, the way BDLR asked the question to the ME was kind of…..well… “retarded”, and therefore confused the ME.

        If you’re referring to when BDLR asked him something about the ribs, IIRC, I think the ME explained that he could not see the 5th and 6th ribs (or any of them for that matter) without first cutting the body, then removing several other organs first. I could be wrong, but that was my take.

  85. Sophia33 says:

    Defense still not ready!

  86. groans says:

    Now, with toxicology coming in during defense case, it might look to the jury like the State has been hiding something. But all they did was rely on JN’s limine order!

    That ME was truly a disaster witness!

  87. Mary says:

    thisis also a great lawblog -not as great as this though – with a vry readable series of entries on the trial. today’s lists the elements of the defense’s scenario and why it will fail. you might enjoy it:

    Zimmerman’s Statements are the Defense’s Own Worst Enemy

  88. My Forehead Tho says:

    Short-Term Effects of Marijuana

    The short-term effects of marijuana include:
    Distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch)
    Problems with memory and learning
    Loss of coordination
    Trouble with thinking and problem-solving
    Increased heart rate, reduced blood pressure

    By arguing that Trayvon could have been affected by weed, isn’t the defense making the prosecution’s theory that much more plausible? For, because Trayvon may have ran slower, moved slower and thought slower, wouldn’t Fogen have a better chance at catching up to him? Wouldn’t that give Fogen a better chance to defend himself from a teenager with delayed reactions?

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Of course but time and again its been proven that if it makes a ton of sense it’s an argument the State does not make.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I just hope that the state brings on someone that will bring up the true effects of pot. The defense is acting like it was crack or something that cause the mind and heart to race out of control.

      What slime balls.

  89. Romaine says:

    I say just let the defendant give us a reenactment of how and what he did to kill his victim, no evidence is better that his actual participation to redeem / validate his innocence

    • Malisha says:

      If people can put in a computer-animated movie to show the jury what MIGHT have happened without evidence that it WAS what happened, then we can’t have trials any more. Poor folks with public defenders can’t get up enough money to make the movies and rich folks can make any movie they like and get away with any crime they choose to commit. I mean, let’s think about a rape case. Defendant is a multi-millionaire. He makes a movie where a computer animation looking exactly like the complaining witness seduces him and gets him into bed with her and does more than any porn star gets a thousand dollars for. Could anybody ever be convicted of rape again?

      Forget it. Whoever can make a movie can rape, kill, pillage, steal, and do whatever he wants. He or SHE wants. Women can kill their husbands, kids, parents, lawyers, doctors. Don’t think it won’t be a catchy little hobby!

      • Sleuth says:

        Malisha, thank you for pointing that out. Reminds me of John Goodman, the ga-ga-ga- zillionaire, Palm Beach, Florida Polo Mogul.

        He killed a 22yo man while driving under the influence. He agreed to pay the young man’s family a million dollars for each year of his life, I think. In order to protect his assets, he adopted his girlfriend.

        One of the jurors had 3 vodka drinks the night before deliberations, and wrote a book. He maybe facing a 6 month sentence for jury misconduct. The Goodman trial is a rather interesting case that sounds like a hollywood movie.

  90. disappointed says:

    we could tell by the video cameras fogen looked like peeping tom, is there an expert for that the state can bring in?

  91. Sophia33 says:


  92. ada4750 says:

    What the hell. Bao has no expertise in psychological effects of drugs. He is not a psychiatrist. His opinion on this has almost no value. The proof is that he had to make personal research.

    Another mishandling by the prosecution. Man i am far to be impressed.

  93. fauxmccoy says:

    if anyone is interested, i would suggest to check out youtube for video of corey’s presser when she pressed charges. she clearly stated that from the states perspective, they did not care if the victim was a drug dealer, they would be prepared and still prosecute.

    the motion in limine which was in effect was ‘temporary’ as it only related to opening statements, we knew this was possible. dr. bao’s testimony clearly did not help.

    i have to believe that in spite of the look on guy’s face that the state is prepared.

  94. mgs710 says:

    I just heard on MSNBC that the holster was on his hip but behind GZ. This and the fact that the gun and holster were black would make it even more unlikely that TM would have seen the gun from the straddle position that he was in. Remember, he was supposedly smothering him at that time.

    • looolooo says:

      Legal analyst Lisa Bloom said this morning on Good Morning America, that fogen’s holster was black, tucked INSIDE his waistband, and that it was VERY dark. How on earth could Trayvon even see “THE” gun, especially since he was straddling fogen at the time.

      BdlR and Co. need to hammer that fact home. Why haven’t they had some experts try to reenact how fogen managed to draw “the” gun and murder Trayvon?

      I’m trying to keep the faith, and remind myself of our distinguished professors admonishments about this trials inevitable “ebb and flow. 😦

    • Not Angela Lansbury says:

      The state missed yet another huge opportunity in the cross examination of Fogen’s gym owner. Mantei should’ve got on the ground with him following MOM’s lead to show the jury how ridiculous Fogen’s story was. This would’ve trumped any animation the defense wanted to present, using not only a live witness right there in the courtroom, but an MMA expert to beat. He would’ve told the jury he couldn’t see Mantei’s gun despite Mantei wriggling down. He would’ve told the jury what Mantei’s injuries would likely be if he’d hit Mantei 25-30 times and repeatedly banged his head into the floor from that position. He could’ve helped Mantei demonstrate the screams with his mouth and nose covered. He could’ve shown the impossibility of fully extending his arms to make a straight front-to-back shot in that position. Most importantly, Mantei could’ve demonstrated with his thicker girth how easy it would’ve been to flip Trayvon over. Damn.

  95. HereslookingatYou says:

    Nothing.. Absolutely ,,Nothing can take the place of person who pulled the trigger getting up on the stand and talking to that jury

  96. Rodlen says:

    From the 5th, and just uploaded today: the State’s updated version of their motion in limine about the animation.


    • willisnewton says:

      so far the judge has seemed pretty good at limiting what the jury can hear or not.

    • Malisha says:

      How appallingly idiotic. As if Disney Studios couldn’t make a computer animation of:

      1. Trayvon smoking up and getting high at the 7-11;
      2. Trayvon breaking into a car on the way home;
      3. Trayvon spotting Fogen in his shruck and coming to check him out, then circling the car;
      4. Trayvon hiding in some bushes;
      5. Trayvon popping out and shouting, “What the fuck’s your problem homie?”
      6. Fogen saying, “Hey man I don’t have a problem” while scratching his scrotum;
      7. Trayvon then saying, “hey man, for genital itch you should really use Lanacane but I don’t have any with me; why don’t you try just apply a little bit of wet grass instead?”
      8. Fogen lying down in the grass to get some grass on him and then scooping a bit up and applying it all wrong;
      9. Trayvon saying, “you’re doing it all wrong” and
      10. Fogen pulling his gun and shooting Trayvon in the heart.

      Then calling NEN and telling them, “um, some kid tried to destroy America and I had to shoot him.”

      And it would prove JUST AS MUCH as their idiotic computer animation that obviously is not admissible under the rules of evidence in Florida.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      thank you for the link. holy crap — the ‘animation’ sounds insane. it is a ploy to introduce the defendant’s hearsay statements without subjecting him to cross examination.

      i cannot imagine this would satisfy the daubert rule.

  97. willisnewton says:

    the state motioned to limit the testimony of Root in three areas and the Judge upheld it

    so this Root guy cannot talk on three issues

    can’t testify to GZ exhibiting a reasonable use of deadly force

    he cant say that GZ didn’t violate any laws regarding gun ownership

    and he can’t say that GZ first exhibited restraint before using deadly force

    JN said that to do these things would allow Root to get inadmissible hearsay in

    • fauxmccoy says:

      it absolutely would be hearsay and i suspect their slick ‘animation’ is just another attempt to do the same. to submit testimony from the defendant without putting him on the stand and subject to cross examination.

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      IMO this getting in would have been much worse than the kid smoked a little pot like so many teens have and do

      • 2dogsonly says:

        That’s what I said upstream. Pot is just fine. Comparing fogan’s gun toting, shock PTSD, not good.

  98. Romaine says:

    this is my first time ever watching a trial, do most trials follow this format. it seems so disorganized, should all of these motions be addressed prior to the actual trial.

    • groans says:

      The defense was not ready – hasn’t been ready for anything yet. As for “most trials” – it’s not typical for civil cases. Professor needs to tell us about criminal cases.

    • willisnewton says:

      a lot of these are motions that have just come up based on actions that happened during the trial.

      Also the defense is “scrambling” (their words) to present their case. It’s a last minute issue.

      THe state understandably feels the defense has had plenty of time to do this sort of work pre-trial.

      But the judge is struggling to not appear biased towards any one side and so she has been lenient towards the defense on some occasions.

      And lastly, this is Florida. Anything can and does seem to happen there.

    • Beverly says:

      There is not always this level of disrespect…ie, the wad in West’s mouth, his treatment of Rachel, Om’s verbosity, his appearances on tv…..All of these things, I think, have been pretty out of bounds…..

  99. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    JN is in the fix…. It is a political decision. They don’t care about black children who are victims. Only about there position in society.

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      I think she is trying not to be reversed..
      since the 60 ‘s folks know weed makes you mellow
      If the jury let’s the killer off for that then , they wanted to anyway

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      Please don’t

    • ks says:

      You REALLY need to slow down. Please.

    • NO Judge Nelson is NOT in on anything. she’s not into that shit. she’s defiantly trying to be more than fair to state. I trust her.
      I listened to her voice ( because I was over here on this page complaining myself 🙂 with out seeing her face, listened very closely and she did NOT want to allow that in but she felt she had to. I really heard a marked difference in her tone as she gave her answer.
      don’t give up on her, she’s a child’s advocate also. she’s good.

  100. Thrace says:

    Everyone notice Daddy Zim and Robt Jr didn’t testify today? Suppose MOM was worried about Bernie asking him about his book and Jr’s tweets?

  101. groans says:

    Oh, right – it’s the new “Frye” hearing, so to speak!

  102. fauxmccoy says:

    oh hoo — they have officially changed from frye to daubert. judge and state ready, defense grabbing at air.

  103. groans says:

    Daubert hearing! Wow – this is a new one, isn’t it?

  104. lurker says:


    O’Mara is not quite ready.


  105. Sophia33 says:

    JN do NOT give them more time!

  106. groans says:

    An expert about CAC’s “reasonableness”?? That’s what JURIES are for!

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      reversible error

      • lurker says:

        Yes, she actually said so and cited a couple of cases.

        She’s no dummy.

        • chi1224 says:

          Nor do we want Fogen winning any appeal after he’s convicted. I’m not afraid of who Trayvon was, so he smoked a little weed… so what? In no way does that make him a thug who jumped Fogen. This is a red herring, nothing more. I think the jury is smart enough to know that.

  107. fauxmccoy says:

    whew! ok, ok, this sounds better

  108. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    GZ father called in all the favors… Guess another Rodney King situation… Find MOM and that WEST guy…

  109. HereslookingatYou says:

    some on the jury may have indulged in the cannibus themselves or know someone who has

  110. mrsdoubtfire says:

    JN is getting slated for something that was caused by the ME Shipping Bao. He volunteered from the stand that he’d done more research on THC. Never told the State. That’s what changed.

    • lurker says:

      Fortunately it wasn’t exactly from the stand–the jury was out of the room.

      But, it came up because he had it in his notes.

      The state should be able to come up with some credible experts on the effects of THC and whether ambiguous use in the recent or distant past can turn someone into a raging attacker.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        That is what I am thinking too. Most people know that smoking a little pot will make a person to not have a care in the world or make them extra silly and happy. I have yet to meet a pot head that smokes, sways and then attack strangers.

  111. vickie s. votaw says:

    O’mara is holding his hands in, not good for us!

  112. Nellie Nell says:

    This so called expert can not tell the not so bright jury, how Fogen felt when he started stalking the kid/ WTH

  113. IOW, MOM is saying this jury is too stoopid to make common sense decisions about the evidence.

  114. groans says:

    This is ridiculous BS.
    Frye Hearing!!

  115. willisnewton says:

    This guy mister Root is some sort of self defense expert that defense wants to bring in. Also may speak to gunshot wound issue and what someone o might be able to do or say after being shot in the heart.

  116. Beverly says:

    I do not get how she ruled….she was talking about what the State can present….

    • lurker says:

      I believe that she has OKed the testimony of the Defense expert on THC vis a vis impact on crime or whatever. State will have the opportunity to provide rebuttal witnesses.

  117. My Forehead Tho says:

    Did the defense open the door for Fogen’s drug use and the side effects of those drugs to be presented to the jury?

  118. Lynn says:

    Once again, GZ was not law enforcement!

    • lurker says:

      Not only was he not law enforcement, his gym instructor testified he was “soft,” not athletic, a .5 on a scale of 1 to 10!


  119. ay2z says:

    bad day for the state, can only get better.

    How do we know that this witness, O’Donnolly, and or his witness wife, dont’ realize that they can not watch, listen to, discuss etc, the trial, their testimony.

    This O’Donnolly could easily be sitting at home watching this afternoon, if he never realized he could not sit in the courtroom last week during trial, and possibly hearing testimony about the 911 call, or even hearing the recording itself.

    • ks says:

      Disagree. I think it’s been a very good day for the State. The defenses’s witness haven’t been credible at all.

    • lurker says:

      Problem (for him) is that he testified he had not previously heard the tapes.

      Hard to imagine that he was in the court at all last week without having heard the tapes.

    • they had to be watching because she made a point to say that the screams had *breaks* to insinuate some time for the so-called smothering breaks! everyone of the witnesses were told not to watch or discuss the trial..

  120. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    I can’t watch anymore…

  121. HereslookingatYou says:

    weed slows your senses…
    and makes you smile..
    the jurors will know that

  122. how dare they!! THIS KILLER IS NOT A LAW INFORCER!! this fucking dick is trying to make this asshole a traumatized killer just like law enforcement???

  123. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    She isn’t consistent she allowing the defense every opportunity to get this murderer off… JN is in on the fix…

    • OMG! Say it ain’t so!

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        Hi Southerngirl2 its been a while.. Glad to see you still here… I just couldn’t deal with it for months. To sad.. This criminal in sheep clothing is going to walk free.

    • ay2z says:

      She doesn’t want a reversal.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      Are you saying she’s far? I’d much rather her be fair than biased for or against the state.

    • Mary says:

      if there’s one thing you can not say about the american judicial system, it’s that its judiciary is ever in on a ‘fix’. defense attns may be amoral, prosecutors may be inept, but our judges are not corrupt. we have a legal system that is a beacon for the legal porfession around the world. we should be very very proud.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        Wrong their are hundreds of cases that had to be thrown out because of corrupt judges… With all do respect you are incorrect. At our church a judge incarcerated over 70 young black men and they set them all free. Amazing it took 17 years to bring him down and the only reason he fell because someone on the inside exposed him. One of the young boys who the judge was biased towards was innocent and attends church every Sunday glad to free of losing 17 years of his life for nothing. The system is corrupt based on color..

        • Mary says:

          i’m not saying there isn’t racism and evey form of bigotry in the system. i’m saying that the judiciary is not corrupt and in on a fix. our judges do not take money for ‘fixing’ a trial.

          • bettykath says:

            Case in PA where two judges were sending juveniles guilty or not of petty crimes to a criminal facility with exorbitant sentences. The judges were being paid by the facility for each one. The county or the state was paying the corporation for housing them. These judges are now spending time in prison. but how many young people (mostly Black) had their lives badly affected by these two corrupt judges? (took me awhile to settle on that last “judges”. too many other names came to mind.)

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Just a few weeks about there was a NV judge that watched a ladies little girl (she looked to be 4 or 5) while the officer raped her mom and that judge is a female.

        Judges are human being too and just because they wear a rob does not make them any less or any more criminal.

        I am not saying that JN is criminal, but………..

        • Mary says:

          that’s not the same as being in on a fix, presumably for money.

          • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

            Listen clearly I did not say for money… The fix can be favors and position keepers… it happens all the time…

  124. groans says:

    The State may need to go find a rebuttal expert. But is it too late?

    • Lynn says:

      Dr.G is from Orlando. Bernie, give her a call.

    • Thrace says:

      Probably not, but if GZ’s scripts aren’t brought in, it’s over. GZ will get off. I keep thinking about that school employee on the jury and her attitude when being questioned for jury selection.

      • Simon S says:

        I didn’t see that portion with the school employee and her attitude. What was it?

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        The fix is in…. JN and all of those Sanford corrupt racist knew it from the beginning. They pay the Martins off (millions) and now go away you got paid for your son’s life. The give black people no credit it isn’t about money its about a murderer packing a Kltec mentally unstable chasing people down and killing them..

      • PiranhaMom says:


        That school employee (administrator) got bounced in the selection process. By Bernie.

        She’s gone.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Very well could be if it has to be done in a day.

    • ks says:

      Not at all too late. Of course the defense is going to play the smear game, but this is going to backfire on them bigtime.

  125. Sabrina B. says:

    Fogen was not a cop.

  126. willisnewton says:

    So the defense gets to bring in the marijuana issue probably because of what Bao had in his notes about his revised opinions as to what effects THC may have had on TM?
    Is that what just happened?

    • Sabrina B. says:


    • ZCBest says:

      Watch they try it with the fighting too!

    • Sophia33 says:

      The prosecution should have prepared their witnesses better. They should have worked with Bao before the testimony. He was horrible.

    • KA says:

      DiId he not say it was NONE to SOME and he could not be sure of it.

      I live in CO. I do not smoke pot, but it is legal here. I think the amount he had was less than what the driving standard would be here.

      Would it now make sense to ask for the psychiatric drugs to be included that Zimmerman had prescribed to him and their possible side effects?

      I would think it of equal relevance?

      I feel horrible for his parents tonight. They are only doing this to degrade their son…

  127. Stormwatch says:

    If she’s consistent and lets the state bring in Zimmerman’s prescription record, the jury will know who was really stoned that night. Be careful what you ask for.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Will they even ask? There were no drug tests done to say what he had that night or how much of it.

      • elle says:

        They need to ask again. If he was prescribed this meds and was not taking them, his condition was not controlled. We can assume he was not taking some of them because of the weight loss and gain. If he was not taking them as prescribed it could be worse than if he was taking them. The jury should know this too.

  128. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    These people are evil… Vengeance is mine I will repay.. whatsoever man sowed yet shall he also reap. God will pay GZ… Blacks there is no justice for you in the courts and I’m sick of them doing this over and over again to these young men…. GZ is a drugger to the hill why isn’t that opened.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Sounds a little like These assholes, they always get away.

      • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

        No it is God’s justice.. Remember the judgment of Solomon from the bible? Higher one saw evil and eradicated it, exposed or whatever terminology you chose.. It takes situations like this to wake people up to what is happening around them.

        If GZ is acquitted then it exposes mandatory changes that needs to take place concerning weapon permits. Also, dirty tactics of lawyers…report them and picket there offices exposing what they did to a victim: stealing his very death scream to get a murderer off. People need to stop being cowards and fight for change. People are so computerized they just don’t care to utilize a pen anymore…

        I wonder why they haven’t called Frank Taffee or did I miss it?
        Sad.. RIP Trayvon..

  129. ZCBest says:

    Really JN? I am done.

  130. sighhhhh says:

    Reefer Madness here we go 😦

  131. chi1224 says:

    deep breath….. weed makes people MELLOW folks! This is going to backfire on the defense.

    • breelee says:

      I hate to disagree, but aren’t most of the jurors older women? This was a huge blow, imo. Even Guy couldn’t speak or blink after she ruled, he knows…

      • chi1224 says:

        I’m a 50 year old woman/mother and I know it makes people mellow. Weed has been around forever. Even older people like us had access in our younger days 😉 from what I recall I wanted to lay around and eat food. Even pop culture has stoners as a bunch of mellow people… because it’s true.
        This isn’t coke or meth or some hard drug… it’s weed… I don’t think this ruling by the judge is going to change the outcome of this trial. Not at all.

        • elle says:

          Thank you, Chi. My parents would not be receptive to this, but I know a lot of people their age (mid 60s) did partake. Your reassurance means a lot to me. It really helps.

      • MedicineBear says:

        Older women are probably the most familiar with weed!

        • 2dogsonly says:

          I am a white 67 yr. old. We were practically raised on pot in the 60’s. This is going to backfire. He didn’t buy enough munches to be looking for a place to admire the pretty raindrops.

          This is just fine. What she shot down, the expert that was going to testify what LE officers endure was much bigger problem.they keep trying to slide fog an in as a police person.

    • elle says:

      Chi, this is me really asking, not getting confrontational. My parents never did drugs. I have never done drugs. As far as I know, (fingers crossed) my children have never done drugs. Do you think these jurors are of an age to understand how marijuana works? I do not remember how old the jurors are?

      Thank you for your encouragement. I am very disheartened by this.

      • anita says:

        3 jurors are w in th 50’s. If i were one of them it would be fine, I’m not. I’m thinking there aren’t very many 50 some yrs. old women like me. This shit sucks. Am I making sense? sorry, i’m furious

        • chi1224 says:

          I’m 50 and ALL, I repeat ALL my friends have tried weed at some time in their life. And not to sound like a snob, but I am also educated, professional, etc….(in other words not some pro-druggie loser) so I would bet money this won’t be some foreign concept to the jurors.

          • anita says:

            I completely agree, me too, it’s just that i’m afraid one woman is some nut job & thinks all pot is bad. Also, some might be looking for an excuse not to convict.

          • chi1224 says:

            If one of them needs an excuse not to convict, the weed won’t matter, they can find any excuse.
            For those who DO know about weed, they also know it makes a person mellow. That’s why I think this will backfire on the defense. I can picture them in the jury room, let’s say this comes up and one or two of them isn’t familiar… the others can fill them in. Juries do talk like that… at least that’s what happened when I was on a jury for a murder trial.

          • bettykath says:

            Is the jury room a no-smoking spot?

          • Romaine says:

            all i’m going to say is America was founded on weed, smoking the peace pipe was big with the pilgrims and the Native Americans. they were doing more drugs during that time than most people do today…they had it all in its natural state. shrooms, i.e hallucinogens, hash, opium, you name it they had it and used it with no recourse or second thought…it was used. in many ways for many reasons, some simple pleasure, some for spiritual enlightenment, some for healing, some for deceit…in our day and time simply for profit

      • chi1224 says:

        elle weed is legal in a few states now for a reason…. it’s not something that would make Trayvon violent. Just the opposite. I also think people born in the 50-60’s have most likely experienced it.
        Put it this way, I bet more people on the jury HAVE than have NOT… so the people who have can explain it to those who never tried it.

        I wish the judge just left it out, but by no means do I think it is devastating. Not at all. The judge is just trying to protect any future conviction from appeal issues. That is my take on it.

        • elle says:

          I have friends in California. Let me just say, they eat a lot of junk food! I always wonder if it had been legal when I was teen if I would have tried it. I have terrible asthma now, so that ship has sailed!

      • BillT says:

        do you drink coffee or sodas? do you eat chocolate, i ask because the claim you never used drugs cant be true.

      • kllypyn says:

        My nephews smoked weed when the were teens. The worse they ever did was clean out the refridgerator

  132. KA says:

    Why would the Defendants meds and his psychological disorder.

  133. groans says:


    Is she actually comparing a 2.0 blood alcohol in one of those cases to 1.5 ng. of THC?

    Oh, GIRL, you’re breaking my heart!! What is Rule 403 for??

    • Sabrina B. says:

      She did cave.

    • bettykath says:

      No. She is insuring that there isn’t a cause for appeal. The state should be able to depose the “expert”. They will be able to object and to cross and, on rebuttal, provide their own expert. (maybe West’s daughters – lol)

  134. Rachael says:

    OMG – My positive attitude is gone.

  135. LiveByTheGulf says:

    I thought judges were to enforce the rules. The defense broke the rules. Easy ruling against defense.
    Why let lawyers waste the court’s time arguing for and against breaking the rules with especially “What would the State have done differently?”

  136. type1juve says:

    She’s letting it in. This is so fucked up!

    • breelee says:

      You said it. Its like the judge flipped to the darkside. I’m stunned. fogen makes out at every turn. No tox, no xrays, etc. I want to go barf, shame on JN!

  137. chi1224 says:


  138. KA says:

    OMG….I can’t believe it

  139. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    If they let the tox report in then she should let Fogens med in and talk about those drugs in his system and yes they were cause Fogen stated those are what he takes and when and never indicated that he didn’t take his daily dose

    • Rachael says:

      They can’t. They did not draw levels on him. They have NO way to know if he was taking his medications – not taking his medications, taking too little, too much.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        They can’t say since he said this is what he takes and when based on what he told them and just go with that and say since he never said he missed a dose that day he was on say, 40 mg adderall and regularly takes Temazapaa and then bring an expert in to testify what side effects are?

      • Malisha says:

        But they DO know that he DID take them at one time and that withdrawal from stimulants makes people irritable and even combative.

        • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

          right..whether they tested him or not HE said that those were what medications he was taking. They can talk about the side effect of taking the prescribed dose, what the side effects of taking too much or too little or what the withdrawal symptoms are, because all of the above can impact his behavior that night.

          There has to be a way to get this in.

          • bettykath says:

            They may be able to get it in if they are allowed to unredact that part of the interview with Serino where fogen tells him what drugs he’s on. I’d also like to see the tape with the explanation of how he drew, aimed around his left hand, and fired. It’s the VST video but VST part could be redacted.

  140. Stormwatch says:

    One of the secretaries who works at the same firm as I do was recently having a conversation in the lunch room with another secretary. I happen to be within earshot. They were discussing marijuana. The older gal said “I raised 2 teenage daughters. I know what pot smells like.” The reason I bring this up is because a lot of people who raised teenagers not only knows what pot smells like, they know how mellow it makes people and how they raid the frige. Those 6 women on that jury probably know the true effects of marijuana, and they think that West must be the one that’s really stoned.

    • elle says:

      Thank you, for saying this Stormwatch. I am nauseous right now. If Trayvon’s toxicology is brought in, there had better another motion about fogen’s medical records. This is all kinds of wrong.

  141. Sabrina B. says:

    Jeez. Nothing about fogen not being tested for any mind/mood altering substances.

  142. Romaine says:

    oooohh she is the worse

  143. Malisha says:

    OK, I couldn’t watch live because of a problem with my computer. I have a couple of questions:

    1. How did the cross-examination of Lee show that the “voice experts” were all tainted?

    2. How did marijuana come up again? Whose motion is up?

    • chi1224 says:

      the tox motion

      • ZCBest says:

        BLDR got Lee to say that looking at a TV while the recording was playing would bias the person in their identification of the voice of the screams because they would see the headline, etc. Something like that.

    • ZCBest says:

      BLDR got Lee to say that looking at a TV while the recording was playing would bias the person in their identification of the voice of the screams because they would see the headline, etc. Something like that.

  144. Lynn says:

    Are they going to call Bao back as their expert witness? Why are they wasting time on these fine voice experts today if they have an “expert” who will testify that a miniscule amount of leftover THC in a system makes you Superman! That expert will be the laughing stock of their profession.

  145. disappointed says:

    He sure did say a whole lot of stuff.

  146. chi1224 says:

    Weed metabolites stay in the system for a month after smoking.

  147. Is West gonna call Cheech Marin to the stand as an expert on the effects of THC is a person’s system?

  148. KA says:

    How would TSH be applicable but his psychological history and drugs.

  149. Stormwatch says:

    The only one on drugs and up to no good that night was Zimmerman.

  150. Lynn says:

    Did GZ see him swaying at the 7-11? Did GZ know he had a lighter? What made GZ say he looked like he was on drugs???

  151. chi1224 says:

    What a joke, weed makes a person mellow, not violent!

  152. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    They are all corrupt.. It will take the almighty to fix GZ up.. Not a court system…H=Justice is not balanced. It leans to anyone with connections.

  153. Sabrina B. says:

    And they read this from the doctor’s notes. something else they had no argument for until they got to court.

  154. Rachael says:

    OMG, I’m gonna be sick.

  155. Stormwatch says:

    I would love to know what pharmies Zimmerman was all jacked-up on the night he got out of his truck in the rain and ran that kid down and shot him.

  156. breelee says:

    If she’s gives them the tox, I’ll blow. fogens was way more important, as he’s the stalker and murderer. If his cant be entered as we know they were too damn lazy to even get it, then Trayvon’s shouldn’t either. I’m getting so tired of child killers rights being looked after. There’s another side to this courtroom and a true victim that should matter.

    • Malisha says:

      Well marijuana use is a “prior bad act.” If the victim’s prior bad acts can come in, why cannot the defendant’s prior bad acts also come in?

  157. Sabrina B. says:

    Fogen’s past aggression supports the prosecution’s claim of him being the aggressor.

  158. fauxmccoy says:

    PROFESSOR — important message from gbrbsb

    I’m having a problem with my comments not appearing on the professor’s blog,


    that the daily afternoon post link is not figuring in the side bar again.


  159. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    This is not justice…but corruption…

  160. Stormwatch says:

    The judge is a former Broward (Ft. Lauderdale) County prosecutor. We’re known down here as “The 6th Borough.”

  161. lurker says:

    West is claiming again that Trayvon was “swaying” at the 7-11.

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      she can look at the tape herself
      west is a liar

    • ks says:

      Even if she lets it in, who is the defense going to get to testify to the “swaying”? The prosecution already called the 7-11 clerk who didn’t notice anything about TM at all, and they can simply recall him if need be.

  162. Sabrina B. says:

    Swaying? From THC?

  163. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    The judge needs to stop the defense. She is giving GZ every opportunity to stay away from a guilty verdict.

  164. Sophia33 says:

    Swaying at the counter at the 711? Really? What is the defense smoking.

    • Thrace says:

      I still haven’t seen what West keeps claiming. Probably when Trayvon was digging in his pants pocket for money and at one point pulled his pants up a bit.

    • Mary says:

      and further, if he was swaying, it would workk against the defenses theory that minutes later he was a mean fighting machine that could take down fogen with one blow.

  165. disappointed says:

    West you are a stupid rat.

  166. Rachael says:

    She’s going to let this in, isn’t she. HE IS NOT SWAYING!!!!!!

  167. Rachael says:

    Like your ice cream licking daughters have never smoked pot!!!

  168. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    JN is in the bag…get Zimmerman off…. I knew it from the beginning remember Sanford FL the racist county… People of other ethic backgrounds expressed it first hand..

  169. KA says:

    Why are we having concerns again about the TSH? Again…

  170. KA says:

    No concerns, when it is validated that he was in court this past week and heard the screams several times played in the State’s case…his testimony will be stricken and he discredited (hopefully).

  171. disappointed says:

    Why are we talking marijuana again? Let’s talk Meth as in Adderall.

  172. Rachael says:

    I’m getting agitated.

  173. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    The defense needs this information…they have nothing but liars on the stand all day…

  174. Sabrina B. says:

    And yet, no toxicology was done for fogen. Seems unfair that it should be considered when the state can’t testify as to the cocktail fogen was on.

  175. breelee says:

    JN is so wrong! MOM got info the state didn’t have, and she’s ok with that? bull

  176. My Forehead Tho says:

    I wonder how many of Fogen’s supporters believe the Judge is bias now?

  177. Sophia33 says:

    I thought she had ruled on the toxicology report. What’s going on now.

    • willisnewton says:

      I would assume as usual that the defense has pressed the issue with a new motion of some sort.

    • lurker says:

      She left the door open if they could show relevancy.

      I think that the ME also had it included in his “notes” which has just given them a wider opening. He can no longer say that there is NO effect. He thinks maybe there COULD be.

      Defense would probably have a tough time coming up with scientific, peer-reviewed research to show an impact on their claim of self-defense.

  178. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    She is weak…this judge needs to do the right thing…

    • lurker says:

      I think that the issue is that even though the defense did it wrong, the prosecution could not quantify a harm that resulted. She ruled similarly (against the defense) prior to trial.

  179. disappointed says:

    Shocking the defense did it wrong.

  180. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    MOM is discussing,,,,,,,,

    • Mary says:

      nelson is staying cool calm and collected because she knows well that deense has nuthin; and so they are trying to pull every b.s. trick they can, to rile her up and make a ruling that the defense can then use to overturn the verdict on appeal for judicial bias.

      she’s trying to get this thing to verdict without throwing the defense any red meat they can jump on. good for her.

  181. Sophia33 says:

    She looks like she is going to let the defense slide on this.

  182. Stormwatch says:

    More cartoon antics from the defense?

  183. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    mantei is sharp.. he should be standing and Bernie sitting down…

    • willisnewton says:

      Disagree. BDLR is good at being personable and friendly and thats a great counter to the stiff and slimy West and OMara. On some level sadly this is a beauty contest of sort.

  184. fauxmccoy says:

    go mantei!!

  185. Woow! says:

    Apparently MOM wants to present an animation to the jury of the events that lead up to the shooting. WTF, so they want to show an animation based on their warped theory.

  186. Sabrina B. says:

    Defense played dirty and looks like she is going to let it go. They should be reprimanded for doing so.

    • EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:


      • Sabrina B. says:

        They withheld what they were going to bring up in court. If the prosecution had done so they defense would be having a spasms. JN’s line of questioning seems to suggest that it didn’t hurt the state. I think his testimony should be struck to reprimand defense for playing underhanded.

        • Malisha says:

          It should also be struck to show the jury that this is going to be a real trial all the way through.

    • Woow! says:

      JN let the defense get away with too much that is why they show her no respect.

      • Sabrina B. says:

        I agree. The keep testing to see what they can get away with. They are undaunted when they get struck down. They just approach from a different angle.

  187. Sophia33 says:

    Has anyone posted pictures of Mr. Donnolly being in court last week.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      He’s very visible – check last week’s videos. Sits on the defense side, 2-3 rows from front.

  188. lurker says:

    Brought up the presence of Mr. Donnolly in court last week. For another motion/hearing.

  189. Dave says:

    Is that GW Bush in the pink shirt behind the defense table?

  190. chi1224 says:

    By tomorrow morning the prosecution will have their proof Donnelly was in court… that’s not for a Richardson hearing, so they still get another chance to strike his BS testimony if they don’t prevail now…

  191. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Who is Mantai? I can’t watch it….upsetting,,,

  192. disappointed says:

    Mr Donelly present at the trial!

  193. Sophia33 says:

    Donnelly present in the court room. GOOD Mantai!

  194. willisnewton says:

    richard motion to strike donnelly

    state in limne



    mister root

    serino and singleton

    thats six – which of these two are paired?

  195. Sabrina B. says:

    Yesssss!!! Present in the courtroom.

  196. fauxmccoy says:

    go mantei!!!

  197. breelee says:

    Yee Haw Mantei! Yes he was there!