Welcome to liveblogging day 8 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

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791 Responses to Welcome to liveblogging day 8 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

  1. Hello everyone! Well, we hope everyone has a SAFE, and relaxing holiday. We will be here tomorrow, and Fred will be putting up a post. We are not sure the topic, maybe ‘defragging’ what went on today in court or maybe something else.

    So, if we don’t see you tomorrow, we will see you in court on Friday!

    If you feel like asking questions, adding thoughts, joking around or otherwise adding comments tomorrow, we will be here.

    Peace out!

  2. smokeegyrl says:

    I heard on HLN that Friday the Prosecution will be done.

  3. riisey007 says:

    A physician on Jane Valez show responded to a caller from North Carolina.This woman sounded like an middle aged white woman and she said she had been taking notes and she said that she feels like Zimmerman suckered Martin into fighting him and then shot him standing up. humm of course we thought he was standing or at least in the aggressive position. Jane Valez said well that is a good question seeing how Zimmerman says that he spread his arms out. The physician said that Martin could have grabbed at his chest due to the pain and that is how it happened. He said it was only probable and not a fact. Frank never said a word, mum he went. Now my thing is that if Martin arms were spread out then how is it that his arms curved back under him. Zimmerman never said that Martin pulled his arm back underneath him. Could it be that this tells us he was standing and hit the ground? Anyhow Martin may have done that but words he didn’t speak at all.

  4. colin black says:

    Its older than 3 thousand yearstwat doesn’t realise it was continulay built up over 6 thousand years into a Brohck a wee castle started of as a simple stone cental cottage an hearth.

    Occuipied for 6 thousand years until abandoned three thousand years ago

    Making it 9 thousand years old the original part anyway

    The commentater was an English Jerk oops just been raceist.

  5. colin black says:

    KA says:

    July 3, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    Colin you crack me up…

    BTW, I just got an acceptance letter for University of Strathclyde Law School for a blended (home country based support w/ residency) LLM for International IT and Telecom Law.

    I thought that may be in your back yard 🙂
    Excellent It tech taght there tip top facilaties ect an Teaching courses
    Every thing in Scotlan d is my back yard
    Im from Edinburgh East Coast
    aN YOUR GOING West nearer Glasgow

    Still Edinburghs half hour 40 mins in a Train .U K is about 12 hundred miles long lands end to joh n o groats ,

    An Scotlands about 400 miles long an 76 miles wide at its broadest.

    In Texas people have bigger ranches than Scotland .

    But it s spectacular an home to the oldest stone built habitat in the World in the Orkneys
    EEvery Summer from 11 to 16 I went to Kirk wall an the Orkney Islands Amazeing

    You can see why the Vikings called it the edge of the world.

    Ive camped out on thease stone foundations habitat with cuboards an hearths about 14 or 15 times .
    Even witttness the Auroa Borrioalas

    9 Thousand years old ????

    sorry the guy commentings a twat turn doon sound

  6. tharealkeisha says:

    I love this so much I have to repost…3/2012

    Please read:
    A 15 year old young man wrote this…. it is very powerful please read:

    Just got my Arizona Tea and Skittles, leaving the store. I hear the clouds clapping when I leave the door…

    On my way back to my dad’s just minding my own business, I think someone’s following me…damn. Who is this?

    My heart starts to race as the clouds begin to rumble, I speed up my pace, he speeds up his stroll. Heart beating in my ears …out of control.

    I feel kind of scared but I keep it inside, you know every man has a thing with his pride. I take out my phone and call up my girl. I say someone’s following me, she says what the world?

    That’s when the world turns upside down. He grabs me and we fall to the ground. All pride to the side. I scream for help. Do what I can to defend myself.

    With the devil in his eye and a gun in his hand, all I have to defend myself are Skittles and a can, I fight to survive, I really do, but he cocked back the hammer and I know I’m through.

    One shot rang out. Maybe even two. I scream one more time, that’s all I can do. Pain takes over my body I never knew could exists. I grit my teeth and clinch my fists.

    A few seconds later I see the light. Jesus said to me, “Son, let go, don’t fight.”

    As soon as I do, all the pain ceases to exists. I unclench my jaws and release my fists.

    With all the pain gone and no more cries, Jesus looked at me and knew, I wondered why.

    He said to me, “Silence my son, the fight your ancestors fought is yet to be done. You’re a symbol, so your death was not in vain, and even though times have changed they still remain the same.”

    My poem is done. Ya’ll have heard me talk. Thank you for listening to Trayvon Martin Walk. (Post borrowed from Beau Tailor) #IAmTrayvonMartin

    • Soulcatcher says:


      I’ll post one of my favorites in case some missed the link awile back.

      Why Did You Make Me Black Lord ….

      Lord …. Why did you make me black?
      Why did you make someone
      the world would hold back?

      Black is the color of dirty clothes,
      of grimy hands and feet…
      Black is the color of darkness,
      of tired beaten streets…

      Why did you give me thick lips,
      a broad nose and kinky hair?
      Why did you create someone

      who receives the hated stare

      Black is the color of the bruised eye
      when someone gets hurt…
      Black is the color of darkness,
      black is the color of dirt.

      Why is my bone structure so thick,
      my hips and cheeks so high?
      Why are my eyes brown,
      and not the color of the sky?

      Why do people think I’m useless?
      How come I feel so used?
      Why do people see my skin
      and think I should be abused?

      Lord, I just don’t understand…
      What is it about my skin?
      Why is it some people want to hate me
      and not know the person within?

      Black is what people are “Labeled”
      when others want to keep them away…
      Black is the color of shadows cast…
      Black is the end of the day.

      Lord you know my own people mistreat me,
      and you know this just ain’t right…
      They don’t like my hair, they don’t like my
      skin, as they say I’m too dark or too light!

      Lord, don’t you think
      it’s time to make a change?
      Why don’t you redo creation
      and make everyone the same?

      GOD’s Reply:

      Why did I make you black?

      Why did I make you black?

      I made you in the color of coal
      from which beautiful diamonds are formed…
      I made you in the color of oil,
      the black gold which keeps people warm.

      Your color is the same as the rich dark soil
      that grows the food you need…
      Your color is the same as the black stallion and
      panther, Oh what majestic creatures indeed!

      All colors of the heavenly rainbow
      can be found throughout every nation…
      When all these colors are blended,
      you become my greatest creation!

      Your hair is the texture of lamb’s wool,
      such a beautiful creature is he…
      I am the shepherd who watches them,
      I will ALWAYS watch over thee!

      You are the color of the midnight sky,
      I put star glitter in your eyes…
      There’s a beautiful smile hidden behind your pain…
      That’s why your cheeks are so high!

      You are the color of dark clouds
      from the hurricanes I create in September…
      I made your lips so full and thick,
      so when you kiss…they will remember!

      Your stature is strong,
      your bone structure thick to withstand the
      burden of time…
      The reflection you see in the mirror,
      that image that looks back,..that is MINE!

      So get off your knees,
      look in the mirror and tell me what you see?
      I didn’t make you in the image of darkness…
      I made you in the image of ME!

    • Dee says:

      That was beautiful, wish you could send this to his parents, beautiful.

  7. Soulcatcher says:


    please go back up and read my post below yours re your family going back to 30bc. Just didn’t want you to miss it.

  8. disappointed says:

    So the sleve had possible TM dna, chest area I believe had possible dna and then upper shoulder area right side and middle of shoulder blades and in between the two colors had possible TM blood. All that from Fogen’s jacket.
    I think he would need to explain that or someone needs to explain.

  9. Looks like West got shagged:

  10. Dear Trolls:

    Okay, lemme see…

    38 votes, 2 1/2 stars on the ratings (for a link, not even a blog)

    Zimmerman creamed on the DNA, debunking his head-bashing/slamming/smothering story.

  11. colin black says:

    B Shyster summpins up wiv im I don’t get what his deal is

    Yup he s on drugs or summing

  12. bettykath says:

    the tv guys are saying that the state has only two more witnesses, Sebrina being one of them and I don’t think the ME was other, but we haven’t heard from the ME yet. I guess they decided not to enter phone records, texts, security videos.

    • whonoze says:

      The phone records, texts and videos have been put into evidence and authenticated. They have not been discussed at all. You’d have to think they expect to explain everything in the closing, otherwise why would they bother introducing the evidence at all?

      • disappointed says:

        evidence can go back with them. the Jury can look through all the evidence. I do believe they will. They will verify Rachel and Trayvon’s calls and then they will see the nasty comments Fogen made about Tracy Martin. Women love reading text messages. jmo

        • Nellie Nell says:

          LOL So no GZ parents to testify called by the state? That is going to piss the defense off for sure. If called by the defense, will they still have to stay out of court until called? LOL

        • gbrbsb says:

          Where ? I somehow missed them… I haven’t read those texts !

        • aussie says:

          I don’t think so. In fact I am sure not.

          The judge said they can have all the evidence that was PRESENTED.

          All the other stuff that was in discovery is POTENTIAL evidence. If they do not present it to the jury in the TRIAL they can’t just give it to the jury as “homework” to do on their own.

          So we out here have a lot more to go on than the jury has.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Okay, now I get it. thanks

    • Nellie Nell says:

      So do you think not entering the phone record, texts and security videos is a a good thing or does not really matter at this point? I want them to enter every and any thing that they can so that this fool does not stand a chance with all of MOM fast talking. He always tell the witness that they will get to that in a minute when he does not want to hear what they have to say (always negative to his case), but he never does. Tap dancing around and what not.

      • disappointed says:

        it is all in. It was submitted last week I believe or could have been this week.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I guess I was expecting to get the low down too. I want to know who GZ called that night. I wanted to know what he said about Tracey because I know he is evil but I wanted the world to know his evil texts. It breaks my heart knowing how evil this family is to Trayvon and his parents, but I wanted to know.

          • ladystclaire says:

            It’s not only the family of Fogen, who has treated Trayvon and his family as if they were nothing. who ever used those photos of this child’s dead body in the manner in which they were used, just goes to show how morally bankrupt and, I hope they will one day see what it feels like to lose kid in their own family, in this same manner.

            Also, how would whoever did this, get those photos in the first place?

      • Rachael says:

        Remember how powerful their opening statement was? So far, all this stuff has been hinted at, the jury will get all the evidence that has been admitted to look through, and the defense is going to bore them to tears. Being sequestered, that will NOT make them happy. The state can handle anyone they need to on cross and close with a bang and it will be cool. Too much would just be too much.

    • KA says:

      How would they know?

      Before the lab tech, they said 8 witnesses left.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      bettykath says

      I guess they decided not to enter phone records, texts, security videos.

      bettykath — those items have already been entered as evidence. what they need is to call an FDLE investigator to discuss the findings.

  13. whonoze says:

    Knock knock.
    Who’s there?
    Real retarded.
    Real retarded who?
    A moment. Your Honor… I’m a little disoriented. Let me check my notes…

  14. sparger says:

    I guess they are going to bring it all together in the close. But I don’t think they have emphasized the time line and where Trayvons body is compared to the defendant’s version of events. I would emphasize it at every point.

  15. trina cosbie says:

    The state needs to address where the bullet casing landed. The state needs to clarify for the jury the dna findings. I’m assuming they will save it all closing. Also, what about GZ phone records & text messages? I don’t understand how or why the state is ready to rest yet. It was a good day for the prosecution….again, but my gut is telling me its not enough for murder 2 conviction.

    • Rachael says:

      Remember how powerful their opening statement was? So far, all this stuff has been hinted at, the jury will get all the evidence that has been admitted to look through, and the defense is going to bore them to tears. Being sequestered, that will NOT make them happy. The state can handle anyone they need to on cross and close with a bang and it will be cool. Too much would just be too much.

  16. whonoze says:

    Knock knock.
    Who’s there?
    Ice cream?
    Ice cream who?
    Ice cream every time I listen to Don West question a witness.

  17. sparger says:

    I know I watch to many cop shows. Will there be a blood splatter expert to testify to how the blood was sprayed on Fogen’s shoulder?

  18. crazy1946 says:

    Now, I think that it is time for a good stout cup of coffee and a walk with my four legged child! Y’all have a good night……

  19. Deborah Moore says:

    For some reason, I’m in the mood for comfort food, so I made a tuna noodle casserole.
    I’ll leave a portion for two, right here, Professor.
    And, thanks for everything.

  20. crazy1946 says:

    If any one else noticed, even the lady doing the transcript gave a grin as MOM/IceCreamMan crept away from the bench!

  21. Jury excused.

    Court will resume Friday morning at 8:30 am.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Professor, you and Mz. Crane have a great night and day off! If you go for a ride, watch out for the other crazy fools out there!

  22. diary73 says:

    I am so glad they were lax on letting us use our devices.

  23. Deborah Moore says:

    I want the sound to accidentally go on and hear Absolutely not, no f*cking way!

  24. disappointed says:

    is west mad court is starting earlier on friday?

  25. ay2z says:

    Will the state try to bring the skyp prof back in or bring in his video taped deposition without the witness– ok, recess until 8:30 Friday AM.

    Hearing now?

  26. crazy1946 says:

    Wow, if you are listening to JN voice, she is very upset!

    • Beverly says:

      What was she saying? Or angry about if you could tell?

      • crazy1946 says:

        No but her voice was breaking up as if she was mad enough to choke someone! That was as she was giving the jury the time off instructions…

        • Beverly says:

          Too bad, really, b/c I think she has really been very accomodating, esp. early on.

        • bellesouth says:

          I heard that, too, crazy1946. From the looks of it to me, it looked like Don West was trying to intimidate her. It seemed as though it was mostly between the two of them except for when Bernie would shake his head, “No, I am not going to do that. No.” kind of way.

  27. KA says:

    So, I stepped away for a minute, did Bernie make the point that there was DNA found on the cuffs and lower sleeves for Trayvon but not GZ, so bacteria from the “bad smell” could not really be “discriminate” in which they ate?

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      Since Fogen is the exception to every rule, I wouldn’t doubt for a second that the defense plans to argue that.

      • Sabrina B. says:

        I know, right? The stars just line up perfectly for fogen, all of the time. Nothing is ever his fault or doing. He is completely at the mercy of everyone trying to do him in. As he sits and acts as if he is a boyscout. I still don’t understand why nothing about his past is put before a jury showing his propensity towards anger and attack.

  28. BDLR brings out that the defendant’s DNA was not found anywhere on the hoodie, including the sleeves from the elbow to the cuffs,

    Also Stain U on the defendant’s jacket. It’s on the right sleeve on the cuff where TM cannot be excluded.

  29. KateW says:

    Soft Serve West wants the last word.

  30. groans says:

    Any re-direct points scored? Thx.

  31. gbrbsb says:

    No West, the forensic is not a clairvoyant, he cannot know how blood came to be anywhere.

  32. My Forehead Tho says:

    I’m actually sick and tired of the State giving the Defense the benefit of the doubt to do the very thing they themselves are getting objected too- if that makes since.

  33. Trained Observer says:

    Rene Stutzman‏@renestutzman2h
    Aphrodite Jones, celebrity journalist on Discovery, just got bounced from c-room cause her phone or e-tab beeped. #Trayvon, Zimmerman.

  34. Deborah Moore says:

    Is he going to object to every single question?

  35. crazy1946 says:

    I want to see the faces of MOM/Ice Cream Man if Judge Nelson decides to hold court tomorrow!

  36. ay2z says:

    Demo by BDLR foiled so far, by another speaking objection by West with water glass in hand. (are there colourless nicotine substitutes?? 😉
    Demo back on.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      That Bernie is a slick dude. He held up the right “sleeve”, fist balled with that slight punch movement! Ahahahahahahaha

      • MedicineBear says:

        I saw that! He did it TWICE — while everyone visualized the right cuff of GZ’s red and black jacket, he balled up his fist and punched the air while saying “cuff” (the verb “cuff” means to punch!).

        Brilliant subliminal messaging!

  37. groans says:

    Did the State introduce bullet casing trajectory evidence – i.e., where they found the casing and what that means? I don’t recall any.

  38. disappointed says:

    West does not want a visual display. Interesting.

  39. Ty Flair says:

    The Defense did not mention fogen inside shirt because fogen had his jacket open

  40. whonoze says:

    I hope the prosecutors caught West’s boo-boo. He asked AG if there was DNA from TM on the sleeves of TM’s hoodies. The answer was “yes.” … So much for the theory that the DNA on the hoodie was destroyed by it being wrapped in a biohazard bag.

  41. type1juve says:

    Well I see one guy in the courtroom that West managed to put to sleep.

  42. KateW says:

    Look at the killer staring down the jury. Intimidation is in order.

  43. breelee says:

    Can anyone tell me why the whole courtroom laughed awhile ago? I hate that…

    • diary73 says:

      West asked the witness where he wanted them to put the display. The witness said, “Not on the door.” Remember, the witness almost fell earlier when it was propped at the door.

  44. diary73 says:

    West is trying to run the time out, and everyone knows it. Observers are notably irritated with him.

  45. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Does gz even have a clue as to how this sinks him??

  46. bettykath says:

    Why does West want to run the clock and piss everyone off?

  47. My Forehead Tho says:

    He asking the same exact questions. I highly doubt the jurors appreciate this and probably have stopped paying attention.

  48. bellesouth says:

    You can see pictures of the evidence here:

    scroll down.

  49. gbrbsb says:

    Stain N could be caused by Trayvon collapsing on top of GZ after being shot, more especially if Trayvon was trying to scramble forward as goes with my theory of him being on top trying to lever himself forward over GZ with GZ holding him with a grappling clinch from underneath… certainly if Trayvon’s chest, the only place we are told he was bleeding from, got blood on the shoulder of GZ’s jacket then his chest must have been over GZ’s head.

    • Stain N on GZ’s jacket is a blood stain with GZ major and TM minor. Given that there is not much blood on GZ’s jacket it probably is GZ’s blood + TM something else.
      I personally see it as TM’s Saliva while crying.

      • gbrbsb says:

        You could be right because I thought they had said blood but I am not sure now. I think my theory was a bit too cinemascopic for reality !

        • N is a blood stain for sure. But, there is no independent blood stain from TM on GZ jacket. On N & U have TM’s DNA but either as minor or as possible.
          There are independent blood stains from GZ on his jacket. Given that GZ’s DNA in that stain N gives a signal that is ~10x bigger than that of GZ, I bet that a blood drop from GZ fell on a stain of saliva from TM.
          This is just hypothetical.

          • Malisha says:

            Here’s another possible: Fogen gets some of Trayvon’s blood when he flips him over. Rubs it on his nose so he looks injured; asks a bystander, “Am I bleeding?” So he has both his own and Trayvon’s blood on him. Then the cops let him “clean up” in the bathroom without monitoring him. Also the EMTs do not preserve their clean up gauze or cotton swabs for testing. Sloppy sloppy work but all done to help with the cover-up.

          • gbrbsb says:

            tchoupi, thanks for explanations on markers “N” and “U” which I am pretty clear about now.

            My confusion, and that of quite a few posters from the comments I am reading, is in respect of the back of GZ’s jacket. If I am understanding correctly, Gorgone confirmed tat two blood tests on the back of GZ’s jacket included Trayvon as a possible contributor. IIRC the tests were “EE” and “BB”, (or “EE” and “CC”). Do you know if Gorgone actually did confirm this and if he did, any idea how Trayvon’s blood could be on the back of GZ’s jacket?

    • bellesouth says:

      Trayvon having some of George’s blood on stain A supports that theory too.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Martin wasn’t on top. No witness saw what would absolutely have to be a position change. Clearly Zimmerman’s light colored shirt was exposed so that “white” shirt that several witnesses not called saw on top was actually Zimmerman.

      • gbrbsb says:

        We will have to agree to disagree then, because imo Trayvon was on top held prisoner by GZ using a grappling hold from below while Trayvon was trying to escape, and which imo fits with all the other witnesses, evidence and forensics so far and is supported by the forensic blood/dna evidence today. IIRC, the witnesses that saw GZ on top in a white top only were looking just at or after the shot, i.e. Selma, Mary, the teacher, and the wife of the witness who took the photos. John the nearest witness watched from outside the actual scuffle for the longest time and clearly saw GZ below.

  50. ay2z says:

    IF the state rests soon, what happens to the witnesses SZ and Z family? Will they be allowed back in the courtroom for the defense case, if any? Or has the state a way to reserve them for rebuttal?

  51. The presence of GZ’s DNA on the front/bottom front of the under-shirt but nowhere on the hoodie shows GZ had his hands there.

  52. disappointed says:

    Pull out his jackets. here we go point out the bb again! I want to see location. Fogen looks like he does not want to talk about his jacket.

  53. colin black says:

    its not even obvious what west is just going on an on an ad finiteum on an on looking for wee spots here there ann every where ever so riveting this evidence foggage in a stupor .

  54. Stormwatch says:

    Friday is not a court holiday down here in Broward. Not sure about Sanford though.

  55. chi1224 says:

    I can’t listen to West’s bullshit any longer…. heading out for some food, screw him, I hope this pisses off the judge and jury royally!

  56. ay2z says:

    This is just repeat, with added comments by West but is he making a point on everything here?

  57. West’s argument is that GZ’s blood must have been on the hoodie’s sleeves, but it didn’t show up because it was degraded by being stored in the plastic biohazard bag.

    But, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    • ay2z says:

      Right, so little blood in that area, that no stains even showed up.

    • bellesouth says:

      I think his argument is getting lost on the jury because …. lack of evidence is of no concern.

    • I believe BLDR argument is the contrast between TM’s cuffs and GZ’s cuffs, where TM’s has no DNA from GZ while GZ has. This hardly fit with the idea that TM used his hands for punching, bashing, smothering while GZ did nothing with his hands.

      • KA says:

        Maybe a mistaken identity in the dark of John for who was “on top”?

      • Malisha says:

        After all, we have evidence of four other murders Fogen committed that night. We just don’t have any EVIDENCE of them because it all got degraded.

    • groans says:

      …[A]bsence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

      Does that mean the defense can’t argue that at closing? Or just that the prosecution will have to point that out? Thx.

  58. groans says:

    Shut up, Kid! You’re on cross. Don’t volunteer any hindsight, please!

  59. ay2z says:

    Did someoen leak the Prof in NM’s Skype number to their minions? How would anyone get the witness’s skype number, sure looked like sabotage, and if so, by anyone out there, are there charges that can be brought?

    • willisnewton says:

      Contempt of court. It’s likely the Skype infor was on the screen for all to see although I didn’t check.

      The “geek squad” really dropped the ball here. A high school kid from the AV club could have done better.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      it showed on the camera shot of the computer mantei was using to contact the guy – people grabbed it from there.

  60. gbrbsb says:

    Methinks if West carries on much more, State doesn’t close today unless JN keeps the jury up until the wee hours of the morning

  61. groans says:

    OMG — PLEASE someone object and/or Judge Nelson rescue us!!

    (Jury’s probably thinking the same thing.)

    What a WASTE of court resources! No wonder cases get backlogged!

  62. bettykath says:

    Bernie did say they might go through tomorrow morning depending how things go today. Didn’t defense say this cross wouldn’t take much time?

    JN could ask the jury how they feel about going through the weekend. If I were sequestered, I’d go for it. Of course, court personnel are entitled to the weekend.

    “I don’t see any blood stain”. “b/c I cut it all out.”

    • gbrbsb says:

      If they went through the weekend wouldn’t court personnel be entitled to double or triple time pay ?

    • deetruth says:

      ,,,, “b/c I cut it all out.” … ‘just like I already explained in clear and complete detail ‘

    • MedicineBear says:

      “I don’t see any blood stain”. “b/c I cut it all out.”

      “There are little ice pick holes all over Mr. Zimmerman’s jacket — could that have been caused by an angry pBa-lack thug attacking him with a slim jim?” “I made those holes.” /snark

  63. KateW says:

    zzzzzzz perhaps it’s a good thing he go over the evidence again. Maybe it will sink in.

  64. Nellie Nell says:

    What the hell, I was working and distracted by my work when this gentleman covered this in details. Where the hell was West the Pest when he covered this already?!?!?!?! Gosh, he gets on my nerves. Why does he keep asking the guy if he knows how the blood got there – NO DAMN IT, he does not know how the stains got there and neither do you!

  65. deetruth says:

    Don West is asking the same questions that Bernie asked, as if they are all brand new.

  66. colin black says:

    See what I MEAN


    Cant believe he can say those hatefull things in front of the MURDERED CHILDS PARENTS.

    Whatch your betters West

    There way richer than youl ever be in spirt soul and harmony .


    • Malisha says:

      Trayvon was sweating, was running, was in fear, was anticipating being killed. Fogen didn’t break a sweaat. May Don West rot in Hell — and I don’t even believe in Hell. Although we are already there.

  67. ay2z says:

    disoriented as planned when they got tossed the curve by the state’s announcment today. Although they should have expected it, because there was a 2 to 4 week estimate by both sides, for the time needed for trial. 2 weeks is half way mark, so defense should have been ready a week ago, this week at the latest.

  68. willisnewton says:

    West is just running out the clock here so the state can’t leave the jury with Sabrina Fulton as the last thing they heard over the weekend.

  69. disappointed says:

    Point it out again West.

  70. Tzar says:

    Why is West acting like this is the first time he is hearing of this evidence?

  71. bellesouth says:

    The jury is going to wonder where he was before when this guy testified before.

  72. ay2z says:

    Juors can’t be impressed if they get the idea he’s delaying on purpose.

  73. Stain A on the grey sweatshirt is the one Wrest really want to talk about

  74. KateW says:

    The only thing that stinks is this line of questioning.

    • elle says:

      Oh no, Soft Serve (love that Kate, thank you) stinks like freaking chewing tobacco. He stinks real bad.

  75. bellesouth says:

    He is totally disoriented. He even said so.

  76. groans says:

    Holy Cow – Is West going to go through every stain AGAIN? Was he not listening during direct?

    • Dave says:

      Yes and yes.

    • groans says:

      Oops – just looked above – you’re all way ahead of me!

      Running out the clock…. Asking his OWN same questions, now! As well as re-asking BDLR’s questions…. GEEZ!

    • MedicineBear says:

      Duhfense klan: “We didn’t prepare anything, so we’ll just crib off of what the Prosecution said. So, everything they said, followed by ‘Nuh uh!'”.

  77. colin black says:

    Skellator hasnnt got a frigging clue what is what where or how now

    dissoiented he says geeezlouise.

  78. KateW says:

    disorientated is putting it lightly.

  79. Tzar says:

    wait, West is disoriented?
    no way!

  80. West is running out the clock with these questions.

  81. ay2z says:

    It’s coming to 15 mintues to 5 PM. West is going to run the timer down to delay today.

  82. amsterdam1234 says:

    If I were JN, I would make this saturday into a court day, just to get back at West.

  83. colin black says:

    cuttings he soaks them an plants them in magic powder that makes d n a plants bud with allie flowers

    An then you count the petals 4 pink for female blue for a boy

  84. bellesouth says:

    There’s no point to this questioning. You can’t argue with the facts which is what this guy is testified to. It doesn’t help his case.

  85. smokeegyrl says:

    Let’s just get rid of all the evidence, all the pictures, all the recordings West… that’s what you want… You want this CAC get away… just like he didn’t want these “Fkng Punks” get away! Okay… I need to breathe… going outside.. West voice just pisses me off… Going to the store and buy the movie Oz

    • KA says:

      Great movie. I saw it in 3D three or four times in the theater.

      It would make a great break from this painful cross examine.

      • colin black says:

        I loved the prison show QZ anyone remember

        Love to see foggaggge enter OX

        Id give him half a day before a gang rape.

        Love the mucic from that show as well

        Reminds me of the Stones Sympathy with the Devil.

        • KA says:

          Colin you crack me up…

          BTW, I just got an acceptance letter for University of Strathclyde Law School for a blended (home country based support w/ residency) LLM for International IT and Telecom Law.

          I thought that may be in your back yard 🙂

  86. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Praying and sending love and support to Sybrina and Tracy.

  87. KateW says:

    The wet gym bag defense.

  88. lurker says:

    I wonder if we are going to get a report from the trace testing.

    Like, was there any grass on anyone’s clothing.

  89. Nellie Nell says:

    Why the hell does West still find time for jokes? Gym bag in the trunk? Stop playing West the Pest, this is real that is someones child!

  90. colin black says:

    Skellator getting in a dig at foul odour of a murdered CHILS clothes.

    The only foul odour is the stench of your nicotine tabbaca chewing sewer o a evil foull moth an tounge

  91. greenwarrior4 says:

    “You don’t know what you don’t know.” That should make a hit with all the folks who love Rumsfeld.

  92. ay2z says:

    the DNA and blood testing, showed results, not degraded enough for that.

  93. Nellie Nell says:

    Well the hell does West still find time for jokes? Gym bag in the trunk? Stop playing West the Pest, this is real that is someones child!

  94. KA says:

    Crap, he is trying to show the darker sweatshirt’s results are invalid.

    (because MOLD ate the DNA)

  95. Sabrina B. says:

    Bernie? Someone?

  96. lurker says:

    Sweathshirts were within a red not closed/sealed biohazard plastic bag.

    Soooo, there could be some degradation of DNA.

    Just Zimmerman’s DNA?

  97. colin black says:

    Right at the get go or get go after foggagges eventuall arrest

    Beginning of May 1012 I I r c

    Gladice apeares blacked out silohete interview wiv junio in tow.

    Peers Morons show .

    She spoke of foggagge an junior saying

    ,….An those boys they treated just as my own.

    The speculation/gossip/guessing game

    Is that Gladice is not the Bio Mother but rather there Aunt.

    In other words junio an foggage real mother is gladices sister.

    that brings us to either pa pa senior zimm was slipping a length to his sister in law>

    Or he is not the bio father

    I think the latter

    Both junio an foggages father will prollb be there uncle an of Indian Peruvian Ancestry,

    The zimms had all girls wanted some male bllod an

    The two wee zimms were frew from Peru.

  98. smokeegyrl says:

    West is trying to say the clothing was contaminated. What a jerk!

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      I think this will backfire on the defense. I’ve noticed that with every expert witness that doesn’t support/contradicts Fogen claim(s) the defense tries to make them seen incompetent and underqualified. So if I’ve noticed it, i’m sure some of the jurors have as well.

    • gbrbsb says:

      I think West is a jerk, but here he is just doing what he has to and what the crime scene technician at SPD has allowed him to do IF she did bag and store the clothing incorrectly and there was any degradation and/or contamination… but’s lets wait to the re-direct as it may be this is all a red herring!

  99. lurker says:

    Trace evidence is where they look for stuff?


  100. smokeegyrl says:

    so the redirect from prosecution would be. did you find bacteria on any of the clothing?

  101. KateW says:

    Soft Serve, “Sir, is the sky blue?”

  102. My Forehead Tho says:

    “We are confident that at the end of this trial you will know in your head, in your heart, in your stomach that George Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to,” Guy said. “He shot him for the worst of all reasons, because he wanted to.”

    Let’s not forget who’s prosecuting this case. Today, the jury has learned: Fogen had knowledge of the SYG law, self defense and interrogation tactics; Fogen was a wannabe cop; Trayvon had none of Fogen’s DNA on his hands, under his fingernails or on his hoodie cuffs; and Trayvon’s DNA was not on Fogen’s gun.

    What has also been established throughout this trial is Fogen’s injuries were minor, non life threatening, and exaggerated. Fogen followed and chased Trayvon. Fogen lied about looking for an address. Fogen story had major inconsistencies (integration and Hannity interview video).

    Witnesses collectively: 1) Agree two individuals were wrestling; and
    2) agree one individual was on top of the other

  103. KateW says:

    Soft Serve, “Sir, did you have a bowel movement this morning?” “I would also like a tour of your facility because I have nothing relevant to ask you, so I would prefer to take up your time.”

  104. bellesouth says:

    Biology class? Come on!

  105. lurker says:

    OK–West is simply reviewing all the same info to show how this guy is qualified.

    Is there a point?

    • gbrbsb says:

      I think he’s trying to prove more than that lurker, he’s trying to prove the material for analysis was badly taken, badly packed and badly stored and could have degraded any of Trayvon’s DNA. It won’t work… I hope!

  106. greenwarrior4 says:

    I’d accuse him of trying to “run out the clock”, but he’s done this with everyone.

  107. KateW says:

    Soft Serve is trying to say your lab is no good. Also asking the witness info he would have no knowledge of to a certain degree.

  108. KA says:

    The pants?

    So now did Trayvon kick him in the nose?

  109. Sabrina B. says:

    Such petty arguments they put forth. They are lucky I’m not on jury. I’d be liable to think they have nothing and are producing childish arguments to hide that fact.

  110. smokeegyrl says:

    here we go with the non chalant redirect and try to make the FDLE employees look like fools… KEYWORD: try… <<< better type that before somebody else does… lol… West needs to retired quickly. like today. let's all put out a petition that suggests he retires.

  111. Beverly says:

    Does anyone else think W must believe that he is very bright, clever, and important?

  112. chi1224 says:

    I knew West would try to discredit the nail scrapings…. Bernie needs to point out blood and saliva and nose secretions are FLUID and would get under the nails!

  113. gbrbsb says:

    Is West with the fingernails going down the route, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”

  114. bellesouth says:

    “So, the absence of evidence is no concern to you?” WTF?

  115. YQ says:

    Correct me if am wrong bc I’m just tuned in… was it that Zimmermans DNA was on the back of Trayvons undershirt?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The opposite. Some of Trayvon’s blood on the back of Fogen’s jacket.

      • YQ says:

        Seems like to me that DNA is ruling out Zimmerman being on his back at the time of the shot. Were the stains on the back and to the left arm?

        • Two sides to a story says:

          I forget, but there are various sites that have all the evidence dumps. AxiomAmnesia is one of these.

  116. colin black says:

    brought to me skelllator you degrade more going down to bottom floor on the eleveter.
    than the non evidence of Travons D N A

    First rule of argueing you cant prove a negative.
    Therefore you also cant disssprove a negative.

  117. KateW says:

    My friend just asked me, how did Zimmerman’s blood get on the corner of Trayvon’s sweatshirt under the hoodie. If what many of you are saying it correct, and that is Zimmerman was the one on top and could not have been on the bottom when he shot Trayvon due to Trayvon’s blood being on the back of Zimmerman’s jacket then let me say this…..

    Is it plausible, being that Zimmerman’s bleeding small cuts in the back of this head that left a blood trail behind his ear, to his jaw and down his chin, dripped onto Martin’s sweatshirt. Possibly also proving he was on top of the boy when he shot him.

  118. KA says:

    Crap, so the flashlight had “no DNA” and we know GZ touched and used it.

    He is trying to apply that argument to the gun…”see you couldn’t see it here, then how could he see it there?”

  119. bettykath says:

    Bernie and the witness gave a good review of what he did and what it means. I hope the jury doesn’t listen too hard to West or they will be terribly confused.

  120. KA says:

    It seems the defense story keeps changing as things are refuted. NOW they are saying he grabbed the gun because if could have been “wiped off” in handling.

    They will now shirk back from the “severe injuries” issue and push the “gun” theory…

    I hope the jurors have good memories.

  121. greenwarrior4 says:

    I love witnesses who don’t let West put words into their mouths. More experience with testifying in court.

  122. chi1224 says:

    who is the guy sitting in front of Fogen’s sister with his lips pursed out?

  123. bellesouth says:

    He’s going to make the jury mad as well as the rest of us by stalling away the rest of the afternoon, so the prosecutors won’t be able to end today and he’ll get the weekend to “prepare” their defense.

  124. Unabogie says:

    How would Trayvon’s blood ever get on the back of Zimmerman’s jacket? I don’t understand this.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Did the forensic say Trayvon’s blood was found on the back of GZ’s jacket ? According to tchoupi’s very thorough analysis of the case, (link: http://imgur.com/a/bcAII#ljlsyUc and look for pages concerning the blood/DNA analysis, there was none of Trayvon’s blood on the back of GZ’s jacket.

      • I checked again the ME report and found no trace of TM’ dna on the back of GZ’s jacket.
        The only confirmed DNA from TM is on the front of the right shoulder (Stain N, GZ major, TM minor).
        There is one stain U where TM is put as possible contributor. That stain is located at the very tip of the right cuff on the bottom side.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Were you replying to me tcoupi, because while the forensic was going through the list I was following your analysis so I knew if there was any of Trayvon’s blood on the back of GZ’s jacket that was a new result.

          The stain U makes sense as presumably GZ must have touched Trayvon after the shot.

        • gbrbsb says:

          I presume you saw that… two of the stains at the back that were previously determined as not blood, EE and BB I think, are as mixed matched positively to GZ without being able to conform or exclude Trayvon.

    • KA says:

      It was on the back of the left shoulder. The other ones were on the front of the left shoulder. I think it shows that the left shoulder was an area of concentration of blood (presumably I think blow back).

      The other area was the right cuff of the jacket.

      That makes a probable scenario that Trayvon was held above the left shoulder and shot with the right hand.

      I think at least

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      However it happened Zimmerman wasn’t lying on his back when he shot Martin, thats for sure.

  125. lurker says:

    So–West is gonna wander around in the woods for awhile.

    Guy will come in and point out the lack of DNA on the sleeves–which is a very good place to get DNA.

    Finished, move on.

  126. gbrbsb says:

    They swabbed the whole holster IIRC, the “swabber” told us so!

  127. chi1224 says:

    The gun was reholstered, not left in the rain!

  128. lurker says:

    OK–guns are not good places to get DNA.

    But, BY COMPARISON, fabric is a very GOOD place to get it.

    Oooops, West. probably didn’t wash off of those sleeves.

  129. gbrbsb says:

    Yeah, West… DNA could have been washed/wiped off the gun but not in any places where GZ’s or that of others remained… unless DNA get’s washed off in layers!

  130. Tzar says:

    Not gonna suffer this fool today
    call me for redirect

  131. crazy1946 says:

    I think it is good that the “Ice Cream Man” is doing the cross, he will only show his stupidity to the jury! And will ask questions that will help to convict his client!

  132. chi1224 says:

    Here comes the rain argument…. BUT the rain did not saturate and rinse Trayvon’s sweatshirt!

  133. Two sides to a story says:

    LOL – West suggested his own client wiped the trigger in a roundabout way.

  134. KittySP says:

    Oh lawwd! My head is spinning from all this DNA evidence. I need visuals, please to explain how all this blood end up where it did😳

  135. whonoze says:

    Knock, knock.
    Who’s there?
    West who?
    The west of the aftanoon is gonna be vewwy painful.

  136. disappointed says:

    Fogen claimed he shot Trayvon while HE was on his back. He then pushed him off or knocked Trayvon off. However Trayvon’s blood is on the back of fogen’s jacket. as in he stood up and shot and splatter landed on back. my take on it.

    • KA says:

      It seems that all the blood splatter were concentrated to one area of the jacket….like the front and back of left shoulder.

  137. Dave says:

    Another stall.

  138. bellesouth says:

    The defense is always so un-prepared to say the least.

  139. KateW says:

    Soft Serve West is up

  140. Unabogie says:

    You folks are going to have to explain to the rest of us what this DNA means, because even though I’ve been following along, I don’t quite get what this is supposed to show about the shooter’s position. I get that it shows that Trayvon wasn’t smothering, slamming, or touching his face at any time after a possible initial punch, but how does this tell us who was on top? Walk us through your theories.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      I don’t think who was on top is important because if Martin was on top he was only trying to play Patty Cake with him apparently because he never touched Zimmerman as Zimmerman bled. SO THIS PROVES THAT ZIMMERMAN WAS NOT SCREAMING. FOR WHAT REASON WOULD HE HAVE BEEN SCREAMING IF HE WAS NOT BEING ATTACKED??

    • chi1224 says:

      I have the same questions

    • ay2z says:

      No need, the state will sum up it’s theories, taht’s the only thing that counts. Details of stains and corresponding DNA results if any, are just coming into evidence so jury can consider the back up of the state’s case.

    • mrsdoubtfire says:

      When will the State connect the dots or this Jury? Ive been following this case since the start and whilst I can make a logical inference about the absence of dna, I cant work out what these results meanas far as the State’s burden goes..

  141. Trained Observer says:

    Test for whether this gets thrown into moderation.

  142. willisnewton says:

    Data fatigue! I’m ready for more courtroom drama.

  143. These results prove that the defendant lied.

  144. crazy1946 says:

    No matter what the decision of the jury, one can only sit and wonder how many lives (and families) has the defendant in this case destroyed? He is only on trial for the murder of one child, too bad he can’t be charged and forced to pay for “all” the damage he has caused in his life! There will never be, nor can there be, real justice that this man answers for, he can never really feel the pain that he has caused. I actually doubt he is able to feel pain like a normal human, he has nothing inside just a hollow void.. The real pain is never going to stop for those from who he has stolen a child, they will suffer from this monsters actions for the rest of their lives. Ok, end of my thinking out loud, and back to my coffee…… Please forgive my interruption with these thoughts…..

    • Deborah Moore says:

      But, they are beautiful and true thoughts.
      Thank you. And, I agree.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      I know. The sad part to all of this is they will never see their son again. He wasn’t shot in a gang war, he was shot while innocently walking home yet people want to call him a thug. The thug is on trial and I pray those women see thru his bull.

      • crazy1946 says:

        I don’t think any one of us can comprehend the agony of Trayvons parents having to sit here every day as their child is murdered over and over again by the individual sitting at the defense table…..

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        And so close to home. there is a place in the Bible that says something like some really good people He takes home so they don’t have to suffer the wrath to come. That’s what I remember when the injustice is too much to bear. I have no words now,

    • Beverly says:

      Ive been thinking along those lines, even about the community where so many people have been sadly involved. My query has been if they can do a really thorough psyche profile on Zim. We need to know whatever there is to know about how people get to be this way…without empathy, no apparent guilt, or drive to change….that dead eye look. Birth disorder, family….we really do not know, imho.

      • elle says:

        That community is traumatized. Think of the parents whose children were one wall away from that bullet. Think of Jayne who saw it all. No one in those homes were safe in that moment. That bullet could have gone anywhere. Think of the home values. The sleepless nights. I have never considered how these kind of crimes affect everyone within a neighborhood. All the hearts fogen has broken. All the safe feelings he stole from this world. The families in close proximity of the shooting may never feel safe again. The have lost 100s of thousands of dollars. Their physical security and financial security has been stolen,. It is mind boggling. And, then you consider everyone who loved Trayvon. It never ends. There are no words…

      • riisey007 says:

        The thing about it is that most likely most of that community moved, the property owners put their houses up for sale and all because of a man who was renting property there and not even paying his rent apparently. He was the one who ruined that neighborhood not Martin and people can call him a thug or whatever but it does not change the fact that this kid did not stalk Zimmerman from the mailboxes and then decide to kill him. Zimmerman took matter into his own hands deciding to get out of his vehicle to so call look for a young man who he says ran and ran toward the back away from him, we all know that Zimmerman was right there where the street sign was and this was the main street. It just is ridiculous. He must be found guilty, I can’t wait for him to turn on Taafe and Osterman whom are making money off of him and are his big supporters because they too have something to hide. I will never believe Zimmerman acted alone.

    • breelee says:

      So true Crazy and well written thoughts that I agree with. Trayvon’s loved ones will forever remember and mourn every date, his birthday, holidays, his death. Every time someone they know graduates, marries, has children, they’ll wistfully wish their beloved son was here doing the same. They say time heals all wounds, but not when you lose a child, or really any loved one. I still cant make my dads favorite foods, and he passed in 2005.

  145. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Hang down your team, gz.
    Oh boy, you’re going to jail.

  146. theveerybest says:

    Hi All, I have been watching the trial and following along with you guys. Great commentary and I do agree “all of your comments ARE very thoughful”, lol.

    That being said, the thought of BDLR and co. resting their case today horrifies me. They left too many unanswered questions, too much wiggle room and too much ambiguity. I think they needed to be more definitive and passionate. Maybe they want the defense to make their move and then they will do that but I don’t think they have met the burden of proof.

  147. Surrealdreamer says:

    Not sure if any one else has noticed but does anyone know why the GZlegalcase.com is showing gone? I know it was there yesterday. I am thinking that something big or weird or both is going on. I have been watching Omara and West through this testimony and they are looking very worried about something. Just my 2cents

    • TrainedObserver says:

      Hadn’t noticed. Just in from a three hour drive, listening to testimony on CNN. Unfortunately, Egypt coup interrupted. Much catching up to do.

    • Rachael says:

      Doubt this has anything to do with it – just incidental but if state rests today, MO’M will have a press release after – like that’s a surprise.

      • Rachael says:

        You are right though – site gone. Hmmmm

      • riisey007 says:

        O’mara is such a camera whore dang. Does he need to go on t.v. for everything? I am sure that is why the judge won’t give them more time because she probably is thinking dang he stay on t.v. The judge is very fair but she is only human and she has to be tired of their showboating and hogging the courtroom.

    • Unabogie says:

      That’s a database error. Probably the server is overloaded.

    • chi1224 says:

      I think the goal of that site was to poison the jury pool, now that it doesn’t matter they are cutting the expense. That’s my guess.

    • Nef05 says:

      It’s up now. Probably an overwhelmed or overheated server.

  148. bellesouth says:

    I found this on FB from Keith Olberman’s Fan Page:

    Appears Zimmerman had a bullet in the chamber, ready to go, no if, and, or but. He was prepared for the kill. He had a cartridge that held 7 bullets. But he also made sure he had a bullet ready to go in the chamber.

    Wonder no more. He definitely wanted to be a cop. And I found it interesting how his attorney kept saying to the gun expert about cops needing to have a gun in the chamber ready to go. And how it wouldn’t make sense to not be ready to shoot, should you have to defend yourself.

    Problem with this kind of questioning regarding cops and having their guns ready to go is this……Zimmerman wasn’t, is not, and now will never be a cop. This is crazy talk from his attorney. And one can only hope the jurors were really paying attention to that line of questioning, and the lawyers misguided perception of Zimmerman acting as if he were a cop, rather than a neighborhood watch.

  149. KA says:

    All the Trayvon blood is centered (on GZ) on one area (left shoulder) and right cuff….

    Blowback from a very close shot…bent down…

    The effer executed him!

    Gosh I am mad!

    I have an AA son…this case truly scares the crap out of me.

    Prayers for Trayvon’s parents.

  150. Sabrina B. says:

    Probably because his mother is a mixture of Caucasian, African and Native South American.

    • Malisha says:

      AHA I figured it out with an algorithm:

      Fogen’s mother is a mixture of denial, lying, racism, dominatrix, and xenophobe;
      Fogen’s father is a mixture of Virginia corruption, Florida bribery, and slimeball.

  151. Tzar says:

    is there a camera inside or in front of spd patrol cars?

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Good question.
      I wanted to reply to your Huh from the previous thread.
      I was told that even with a not guilty verdict for 2nd Degree Murder, the manslaughter charge is still on the table, and I find it unfathomable that the jury wouldn’t at least find him guilty of that. So, that’s why I said he’s still gonna go to prison.
      I could be totally wrong, It’s been know to happen.

  152. Deborah Moore says:

    Recess – I guess I’d better go wash the dishes.
    Did I see West get up first? Will he be doing cross.

  153. 15 minute recess until 3:55 pm EDT

  154. disappointed says:

    Fred am I wrong? Could Trayvon’s blood be on his back if he is shooting from being flat on back? Talking stain bb on jacket.

      • chi1224 says:

        can one of you please explain what you mean, the position of all these stains is confusing me…

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        I’m not sure I follow… would they not be facing each other? how could the blood get on back… I’m confused please explain.. Thanks,

        • ks says:

          What that means is the GZ’s version is bunk. If he was on his back as he shot TM, it’s very unlikely there would be TM DNA on GZ’s BACK.

        • KA says:

          All of TM’s blood traces (presumably from blow back) is on his left shoulder area, back of shoulder, and right sleeve.

          The only probable scenario is that GZ held Trayvon up close to his left shoulder and shot him with his right hand. He probably had Trayvon is a wrist lock or submissive hold.

          I am just furious again.

          • ks says:

            Yep, also notice that none of TM’s DNA is anywhere else on GZ. Not his chest area, face, head, etc.

        • diary73 says:

          I think I see.

      • TrainedObserver says:

        CNN radio on drive across Alligator Alley interrupted testimony with news of Egyptian coup. Much catching up to do here.

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        You’re saying he could be on his back and get.that stain or could not?

        • KA says:

          He could not. All the TM blood is in ONE area of GZ’s jacket….left shoulder, back of shoulder, and right cuff. Most probable is holding up Trayvon to left shoulder and shooting with right hand…

          he is left handed (GZ)…he would be doing the “submission hold” with his stronger left hand.

          (ie…he executed him to get him to shut up the screaming and not tell the police what he did.

          • riisey007 says:

            Yeah I think he shot him because he was yelling help too. The reason is like Alexis Carter said you basically forget all reasoning once this type of thing happens. What do you want to bet that Zimmerman wanted to test out those case study theories that night! This is why I wanted prosecution to ask him specifically the type of homework he was given and the type of case studies they actually covered.

      • bellesouth says:

        How is a question correct?

    • Dee says:

      Zimmerman got on Trayvon before he killed him, Zimmerman lying about being on his back the whole time.

    • KateW says:

      but they need to specify that to the jury or can they specify that to the jury. Because just as some of us are having difficulty understanding this, I am sure the jury doesn’t understand where the prosecution is going with it either. To assume they know would be a mistake.

  155. Rob says:

    DNA proves fogen on top when he killed Trayvon!!!

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      How so? I believe that is what happened, but how does the DNA prove it… I’m a bit slow so please fill me in…

  156. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Why doesn’t gz have a higher percentage of Caucasian if his father contributed half?

    • crazy1946 says:

      Maybe he was not home that night?

    • Woow! says:

      In my Snoop Dog voice — GZ is a Purivian-Negggaaa

      • God is there says:

        Yes, ‘dat nigga TB’ (tugboat) as he claims he is so dearly called by all of his ‘black’ friends. We know that in reality, it was his brag on killing of an innocent young black teen, “Trayvon Benjamin” Martin.
        I pray that God will serve notice to him and that justice is served and ‘George Michael Zimmerman’ spend the rest of his evil life in prison. Lets see how many boats he will tug then.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Because DNA can contain genes that go back for ages. I just did an Ancestry.com DNA test and was REALLY surprised with the results. I didn’t know I had any S. Euro or E Euro genes at all, nor Scandinavian – this is not in the recent (past 250 years) family history.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        I am waiting for mine. I go back all the way to 30 bc… so I can hardly wait.

        • Soulcatcher says:

          @smokeegryl, are you from LA? I know I read a comment that someone here is. If so, my husbands family is from there, and I have been tracing his history. I found a family tree that where his goes back that far also. Maybe you are related?

      • Nef05 says:

        I want my brother to do one of those. My brother, since he’s my full blood brother an carries the “Y” gene data that I (obviously) don’t. I was fascinated by the TV specials that were being done on those studies. Wonderful info you received from being tested.

      • Dee says:

        DNA went back to the beginning of mankind. God used the DNA when God took the rib, meaning the curve of the man Adam. To be able to use the DNA to reproduce an exact duplicate of Adam’s race, which was the woman Eve, only because God did not form the woman Eve at the same time. Remember the word Gentile means All the races OTHER then the Jewish race.

        He ”formed” the man Adam. She came later after God taught the man. Adam to be able to take care of her, so that they could be able to fulfill what God has ”formed” them to do. The Gentile Nations were ”created” in… Genesis 1:27 their job was to bring forth their races into the world after their own races and nations, to be able to replenish the earth, and they were called the Gentile Nations of the world which God had created when he created the male and female in…Gen 1:27.

        God did not ”form” the man Adam. Until over a thousand years after the Gentile Nations of the world were ”created”. In Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he, fulfilling God’s scripture in…

        Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation. Then God gave the Gentile Nations a ”generic” language that they would all share in the earth, fulfilling his scripture in… Gen11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

        The term ”Gentile Nations”, simply means ”all” the race OTHER then the Jewish race. Which was not formed until God formed the man Adam in Genesis2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
        These are two totally separate acts that God performed concerning mankind. The man Adam and Eve were only one race out of ”mankind” Other word’s God ”created” mankind, and He ”formed the man Adam which was the man that represent the Jewish race.

        So when they taught us that Adam and Eve were the only people on the face of the earth, and that we all came from them. This was the first lie that they taught us from the time they opened up the word of God. And man has been believing this lie from the time we were born into this world. That’s why God said that we have all sinned and fell short of the glory of God. Because we all were born into a world that was already teaching us to serve another god other then the God of the Holy Bible, through their traditions. And they are still doing it today. And in return the continue to listen to these lies then teach these lies to their kids and their kids, kids this is called ”Traditions”. The same traditions that Christ walked ”against” when he walked the
        face of the earth.

        2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
        2 Corinthians 11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

        • Dee says:

          Sorry for the Bible study, but I thought someone would love to know the truth of God’s word not man’s.

          • cielo62 says:

            Dee~ Sorry, but I found that TOTALLY inappropriate as many here are NON christians or atheists altogether. Science has allowed us to benefit humanity. This is why we use it.


          • God is there says:

            Excellent post Dee!!! No apologizes needed.

          • God is there says:

            @ Dee, sorry, but I have to recant my statement. Next time I will make sure to read the entire reference before commenting. Sorry about that. But I don’t understand where you got some of your information from, but I really have to say that your interpretation of these scriptures are way off to say the least. May I ask, why you think there were humans before Adam and Eve and where are you referencing this from. Certainly, not the Bible. Can you help me out on this please? Thank you. Hope I didn’t offend you in any way.

        • cielo62 says:

          Dee~ PLEASE. This is not Sunday school. DNA is what it is. NATURAL. Nothing to do whatsoever with a book written BY MEN over 2,000 years ago based on hearsay and myths. Sorry, I realize it’s your faith. BUT this is not the place for it.


    • Dee says:

      Zimmerman fills his paperwork out as being a white man. I know that because the Dr. said he put his race as white. He is denying his on race anybody can look at him and see that he is not white, besides the skin color.

      • God is there says:

        I was told that whatever race your father is, that is what you are. it’s not based on what your mother’s race is, but what your father’s is. My sister, who is black, married a white man; they had children, and on each of their birth certificates, their race is listed as white because that’s what their father is.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      That’s probably because his mother is dominant over the father, it happens that way.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Zimmerman’s father is half Cuban (his mother). I don’t know if PA Zimm’s father is 100% Euro/Caucasian, but I expect so.

      So George is likely more than 50% Hispanic considering Gladys is predominately Hispanic.

      We don’t know if there’s an adoption involved..

  157. GZ’s shirt (Exhibit 153)

    Stain A: +blood, complete profile single source matched GZ
    B: same
    C: same
    D: same
    E: same
    G: negative for blood
    H: same
    I: same as stain A
    J: same
    K: same
    L: same
    M: same
    N: same
    O: same
    P: same

  158. KA says:

    What is West goes on forever on cross for this witness and the State cannot enter the rest of their witnesses?

    Are they going to stay until midnight? That would tick off the jurors.

    Will they end on time and give the Defense the “delay” they wanted?

  159. gwynne says:

    there sure seems to be a lot of fogen blood on his own clothes, hmmmm…possible staging?

  160. Ty Flair says:

    Fogen is a f@cking lair his jacket was not zip up

    • KA says:

      Exactly what I was thinking.

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      of course…so this leaves the whole “he only saw my gun at the last second” up in the air …Oh God that poor kid

      • KA says:

        Or it says, Trayvon saw it the whole time, lest being scared!

        That was in testimony yesterday. Serino asked him if it was possible that Trayvon saw the gun proactively and felt he needed to protect himself. GZ said basically “no way”…

        I think if Trayvon saw the gun…after the chase….that would be considered aggravated assault and maybe stalking and GZ has no self defense story by law.

        Trayvon owned the right of SYG and self defense.

        I am so pissed after this testimony. It is clear GZ executed him to shut him up.

  161. KateW says:

    Please let the prosecution explain the logic for this and not just leave it up to the jury to decipher and allow Skeletor and Soft Serve West put their spin on what it all means.

    • whonoze says:

      Well, we know by now they don’t do that. I guess it all waits for closing argument. I’m guessing then, that the State’s closing will be quite lengthy, with many references to trial transcripts and exhibits.

      One reason for this may be that the State gets to go last in closing, so perhaps they don’t want to show the full nature of their argument now, lest the Defense have a better run at it.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Closing arguments is next ONLY if the defense does not present a case. If and when the defense presents its case, the prosecution will present its rebuttal case. Closing arguments follows thereafter.

        • breelee says:

          Searching, I hate to show how dumb I am, but after the defense is done, can the State put witnesses on the stand that they hadn’t called before? Like the investigators, phone records, etc.? Is that what a rebuttal is? If not, would you explain what they can do to rebut? TIA

        • Nef05 says:

          @SM –

          Do you think the defense is going to present a case?

      • diary73 says:

        But shouldn’t they at least call the chief investigator??????

  162. breelee says:

    Shouldn’t fogens shirt have big ass sweat stains? Wouldn’t a man sweat more than ever, while being beat or killing a child? I looked and didn’t see any. Another bit of proof he’s a cool evil cookie.

    • riisey007 says:

      Which makes me even sicker that we don’t have his blood from that night to drug test or check for alcohol.

  163. colin black says:

    willisnewton says:

    July 3, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    That would be the FDLE investigators, and it seems logical that we should hear from them, at length before the state rests.

    We’ve not had a timeline of events presented yet

    Ah hem Times 4 REBUTTALL

    All the devastating stuff will be banged down at rebuttal.

    The defence are desperate to try an deflect an defend even this case in chief so far they would prolly fail.

    An now imagine the big guns are brought out the real investigaers not the good old bohy network.

    Double whammy the Jury hears the best evidence THE TRUTH LAST.

    An o manic skellator an foggagge ar phlucked.

    Theve alreadt shot there bot on defending the gobldeegook

    An that’s it


    Take the prisoner into custoday after Impact Statements

    An a S T T from J NELSON

    A Severe Talking To.

  164. jodiwankanobi says:

    just had a sleep, can someone tell me if they are going to rest today did they speak to the investigators that decided to charge zimmerman?

  165. IMBack says:

    When the State rest its case, will we see the Forgen Family back on deck Friday?

  166. Sabrina B. says:

    Where is evidence of shimmy?

  167. Defendant’s jacket (17 stains)

    14 additional stains found with special lighting

    Stain A: + blood, matched GZ single source
    Stain B: same
    C: same
    D: negative blood
    E:+ blood, DNA mixture, major contributor GZ, TM cannot be excluded from the mixture (Stain on back right shoulder)
    F: neg for blood
    G: + blood, no intrp
    H: Negative
    I: Major conrributor matched GZ, TM excluded from the mix
    J: +blood, single source matchwd GZ
    M: same
    N: +blood, mix DNA, Major matched GZ, Minor contributor: TM This stain is on the front right hand shoulder
    O: same as M
    P: same
    Q: neg blood
    R same
    S: same
    T: same
    U: +blood, mixture, no minor or major contrib, TM cannot be excluded to mix, no determm re GZ. Stain on bottom of the right hand cuff
    V: + blood, DNA too limited to match and could not exclude
    X: neg forbolld
    Y: same
    Z: + for blood, no interp
    AA: neg for blood
    BB: + for blood, GZ included as a possibble contrib, couldn’t exclude TM. Stain located on back almost below the neck
    CC neg for blood
    DD: Negative for blood
    EE: same

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      What could this mean?

      • disappointed says:

        he has Trayvon on his back. I believe it mean he was not on his back when he shot.

        • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

          Okay but how does the stains prove this? I believe that is what happened but I don’t see how the stains prove it…

    • Malisha says:

      Right shoulder got a small amount of blood spatter when Fogen shot Trayvon with his right hand, facing him, parallel standing or leaning over him.

      • KA says:

        Exactly. It seems most of the blood on GZ from Trayvon was concentrated to a shoulder and the possibly the right cuff.

        It supports a scenario of him holding Trayvon close UP and shooting at close range.

  168. disappointed says:

    Did BB test positive for Trayvon’s blood? On fogen’s back? while he was on his back shooting? Did I hear that right?

  169. lurker says:

    Zim sure had a lot of stains on his jacket.

  170. Nate B says:

    TM’s blood absent from fogens jacket = GZ was on top when he pulled the trigger. This is huge

  171. Unabogie says:

    If Zimmerman really shot Trayvon with Trayvon on top, then wouldn’t Martin drip blood on Zimmerman? On the other hand, if Trayvon were on the bottom, then gravity would keep all the blood inside his sweatshirt. Which is exactly what you see.

    • whonoze says:

      Not necessarily. It takes most wounds some time to start bleeding. If, hypothetically, Trayvon had been on top at the time of the shot, the bullet might have pushed his upper body up and back, and if then fell to the side, as GZ suggests, his wound would not have dripped onto GZ.

      I’m also somewhat surprised by how LITTLE blood seems to have exited the wound. While there’s a decent sized stain on the under-sweatshirt, there doesn’t seem to be much of a blood-stain on the hoodie.

      • Unabogie says:

        I guess he bled out internally.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Trayvon was lying on his back! That’s how “little blood seems to have exited the wound” (gravity). The amount of blood that popped upward from the wound was absorbed mostly by the under-sweatshirt.

        “If, hypothetically, Trayvon had been on top at the time of the shot, the bullet might have pushed his upper body up and back” – does not make sense at all, because the force from the bullet is not remotely enough to push Trayvon’s body weight “up” and then “back”.

      • riisey007 says:

        The blood pooled in the chest once the arteries or vital organ was hit, then the blood spills out of any orifice of the body freely like the nose, ears, mouth, etc.

        • riisey007 says:

          Also this is a small caliber handgun so you won’t see the blown open hole like you would if he was shot by a shot gun.

    • gbrbsb says:

      IIRC the wound hardly bled externally, just filled up internal cavities which can hold a lot of blood, furthermore, remember the photo of the entry wound, it was really small, even tiny with no sign of large amounts of blood having bled out even from the photo at the scene and when Trayvon was after the shot, face down. And, if GZ was on top with a bleeding nose, why is all his blood on his own jacket and not on Trayvon’s. IDK, where the defence will be going in the closing or during crosses but the surely have something here as otherwise they have just explained all of GZ’s bleeding and where, and nothing about Trayvon.

  172. chi1224 says:

    West doing cross on this will go to midnight…. I don’t see the state being able to rest today.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Yep, that’s why I’m prediction premature fireworks.

      • chi1224 says:

        I’m wondering how long JN will let it run today because I seriously see West taking HOURS to cross! Days even!

      • breelee says:

        IF anyone says JN wants the state to wrap it up as stated above, 80% of court time has been taken up by West! And you watch, he’ll talk till JN has to close for the night now. If the jury wants to make a quick decision to be able to go home, hope they lay the blame where it belongs, the defense.

        I truly don’t see why they cant work tomorrow. Its like everyone gets to celebrate except the jurors, that’d P.O. me.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Courthouse would need to be opened; air-conditioning turned on; security lined up; janitorial staff on duty, etc.

    • ay2z says:

      yeah, you really think they will be done by the time fireworks start??? 😉 (that’s a snark aimed at the snow coner)

  173. KA says:

    SO the only blood stains were in one area of his shoulder and right hand (hand he shot with).

    He held him, bent over and shot it.

    One shoulder and the right hand he shot with…

    God, I am furious all over again!

  174. whonoze says:

    I had a thought on why West might have wanted Friday off: The Defense may think the case is breaking their way. If so, they might want the jury to be held over for the long weekend with nothing to do, hoping they will all get anxious and increase their desire to get out of there as soon as possible. Perhaps the Defense thinks that if the jury members all want to go home ASAP, when they begin deliberations someone will just say “well, he may or may not have been justified in shooting that boy, but we can’t prove it beyond doubt so let’s just vote ‘Not Guilty” and get the hell outta here.”

    If that’s possible, then JN’s concern for the jury in shutting West down, goes to an interest in a truly fair trial with proper deliberation by the jurors.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      That’s very plausible, whonoze.

    • lurker says:

      I think that they are not ready.

      They think this whole thing is running too close to the line and they want to line up witnesses, etc to slam Trayvon, his family, Crump and so forth.

      Seemed like he was really pushing for the deposition with Crump–wanted Nelson to order him to be deposed tomorrow.

    • diary73 says:

      Whonoze, I always value your take, but I think their reasoning is more basic. They are just not ready. Much has surfaced, and the defense wants to find a spin.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Defense always looking for time off to make more media appearances. Egyptian military coup may deprive them of some air time tonight and over the weekend.

  175. KateW says:

    So how is it that Zimmerman’s blood is all over his jacket and only a spot ended up on the sweatshirt underneath the outer sweatshirt.

    And what is with the hormones on the blog today. 😉

  176. chi1224 says:

    Where was stain U located, does anybody know?

  177. colin black says:


    willisnewton says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Contempt of court charges can be filed, should be filed, IMO.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    oh lighten up it wasFUNNY

    M O M Said don’t be surprised if someone is playing with us right now!?

    No shit Sherlock…

    Do you think we should send the pranksters to Quantamo Bay.

    Foggagge an his darn tootin stooped lawers desrve to be mocked

    O Manic was flappin

    L Nelson unflappable an cool as a cucumber

    an even then she had to tell him a 3 rd I I r c to hang up

    She was brilliant he had an enema.


    Woow! says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Have faith for Tracy and Sabrina:

    Who can the defense bring on as a witness? All the defense can do is put people on the stand to say

    1. CAC is not a racist
    2. His life was in danger (hearsay)
    3. TM beat his head on the concrete (disproved)
    4. He never followed TM (disproved)

    I am sure the state is ready to cross anyone they put up there.

    Now if they want to put the daddy, mama, and Shelly that would be good… any testimony would be hearsay.

    I think the state has provided enough evidence to get a conviction. Any sane reasonable person knows that CAC is guilty as sin.

    I still have issues with the jury.


    willisnewton says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    thanks. all good points.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    D N A

    ov foggagge was labelled D A T NI GG ITTI.


    Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    I think it’s important that only a small amount of DNA is needed to make a comparison, so the fact that NOT even 1 millionth of an index card amount of DNA was found on TM is significant…


    KateW says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:19 pm



    DruDo says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    If I were on that jury, the highlights, at this point, in my mind, would be the remarks Z made during his phone call to nen: “These assholes always get away” and “effen punks” (although I believe he said coons), the fact he ignored the dispatcher “we don’t need you to do that”, that he followed TM for no reason other than he looked “suspicious”, also he already had the gun “racked” or had the time to rack it before firing, he grossly exaggerated his injuries as an excuse (deliberately lied) for killing TM and those injuries were very minor and had the knowledge to do that. Those are just some reasons why I would be leaning towards a murder2 conviction. But, that’s just me and I’m not unbiased.


    Woow! says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    FoxNews reporting that JN is putting the pressure on the state to rest its case.

    This is why their view are so stooooopid.


    willisnewton says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    my question is, why are you watching faux news and expecting anything that resembles news?


    DruDo says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    Like West even knows what he’s looking at. pfff


    Crane-Station says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    West needs a continuance. He’s never seen this before.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Ive said it once twice thrice

    uno duo TRAY X

    Ths STATE will devastate in rebuttal off the defences sham /shame/non/defence.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    This is there case in chief.
    They don’t throw all cards down on the first hand.

    They let the deflence make a fool of themselves

    Turn all there wittneses into theres.

    Oh theve already done that an bought a T Shirt.

    Then they hily gun the nails on foggagges coffin shut forever.

    With RE BUTT ALL.

    Or as foggagge will be known an described .

    When he hits the


    Free Butt for ALL.


    sparger says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Why are they even pretending they need to talk to Crump. They had Rachael. She was their problem not Crump.


    GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Trayvon was only 17 years old for twenty-one days.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    I would pay to watch CRUMP take those 2 chumps to school.

    Oh I forgot Ive already seen that an wearing the T SHIRT.


    Crane-Station says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Nothing on the gun, and nothing in the fingernails to show head slamming, head bashing, beating, bloodying the nose smothering or anything else GZ claimed.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Trays Grey Hoody tested an labelled A That’s what he wore as foggage blew him away

    R I P

    Trayvon gone never forgotten.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    A G P Folks.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    The Verdict please J Nelson briefly looks an reads .

    Stares at foggagge helpful standing up like a good obedient boy.


    A G P
    L O L
    L D A
    S N

    A G P
    N E U
    D O K
    R E
    G D


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 2:10 pm



    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Crane-Station says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    West needs a continuance. He’s never seen this before.
    Trayvon needed a continuance off life.

    He had ever laid eyes on your client.An he laid hands lead an profanity threats an carried out threats.

    So sit your boney arse down an be a nice old man skellator or get back to

    Castle Grey Skull.

    I share a dream with foggagge to be a judge.

    Just to be able to Channell through J Nelson at guilty verdict an sentanceing.


    colin black says:

    July 3, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    foggagges jacket labelled B because he killed decency.


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  178. Deborah Moore says:

    Anyone else think we might see some fireworks before the end of the day. We still have a way to go and we still have to fret through Cross.
    And, the unpreparedness of the defense has been and will continue to be a burden on the court.

    • gwynne says:

      I agree. And the unpreparedness, the paper shufflers are old enough to know to do their homework. I am mighty curious to see if mom shows up for his tv date tonight. We all have priorities.

  179. disappointed says:

    I believe the blood on Trayvon’s sweatshirt is a big deal! Fogen NEVER not 1 time admitted to being on top of Trayvon. If they are claiming his hoodie was weighed down from the can of fruit juice that sweatshirt should have never had fogen’s blood. I do not think the sweatshirt would have been exposed in the struggle.

    • diary73 says:

      Yes, the reporters are discussing it over there. You will read about it tonight.

      • groans says:

        I feel like we have our own “news correspondent” on the scene, Diary! This is great.

        Maybe it’s kept cool because judge wears a robe, lawyers wear suits, and witnesses can be nervous. Good thing it’s not stuffy, or everyone would come out sick (from breathing each others’ germs)!

  180. diary73 says:

    It is soooooo cold in here.

  181. breelee says:

    Fogen looking at his jacket, thinking: ” I sure miss that jacket, it was a great for killing, and some folks saw it as white!”.

    Are we going to get to hear from the guys who took over Serrino’s job? I’d like to hear them asked if they think his story rang true. gag

  182. KA says:

    BLDR is a very likable personality.

    I suspect that also plays well for the jury.

    Most women I know are adverse and suspicious of jerk personalities.

  183. Dee says:

    Man that guy Don is gorgeous no prejudice here. 😉

  184. Dee says:

    Bet Trayvon stains is on Zimmerman jacket.

  185. ay2z says:

    Comment by Gorgone that the red jacket would blend in colour with the red brown stains that he would be looking for.


  186. lurker says:

    Thirty one blood stains on Z’s jacket.

    • ay2z says:

      Kinda makes an amateur observer wonder at least, about ‘spatter’ of some sort and if so, what sort of pattern overall might say.

  187. gwynne says:

    so will the paper shufflers attempt to say that magic rain washed away everything but the blood from fogen’s boo-boos?

  188. Interior sweatshirt

    Stain A:Lower left, + for blood, matched the defendant GZ.

    Stain B: + for blood, matched TM

    Stain C: negative for blood

    Stain D: + for blood, mixture present. GZ and TM are included as possible contributors.

    Stain: + for blood. Single source. Matched TM.

    R sleeve to cuff: negative for blood. No Dna foreign to TM
    L sleeve: to cuff, negative for blood, not able to exclude GZ from that mixtur.

  189. Stormwatch says:

    He never started bleeding from the face until the gun kicked back and hit him. That’s why no major blood on TM.

  190. ay2z says:

    The photo of the sweatshirt, clear view of the direction of blood and the amount of blood’ flow down the shirt’.

    Why would this amount of blood flow down the shirt? What possible scenarios, both position of Trayvon when the flow started and ended, and whether the blood was flowing from being pumped, or flowing simply from gravity?

    “He sat back and said ‘you got me’ said GZ in first interviews, or version in re-enactment video, “He sat back and said ‘ohp!!’ while GZ demonstrated Trayvon had his hands up and slightly out.

    Why would blood flow downward like this if the victim was not upright for a time while his heart continued beating? And how would a victim of this trauma, remain upright on his own in this position if still alive or if not?

    Direction of flow– add that concept to the forensic evidence?

    • Sophia33 says:

      Good point!

    • riisey007 says:

      What I want to know is how long it took Martin to die. I am a medical professional so I know he died within seconds but are we gonna hear from an expert? seeing how he stood up and ran to his death over in the grass after uttering “you got me”, One would think Martin played with Zimmerman like a kitten with a ball of yarn. Just silly!

  191. Sophia33 says:

    I wonder if they are are going to tie it together that Zimmerman tugged on Trayvon’s sweatshirt.

    That stain looks like a thumb print.

  192. Sabrina B. says:

    So much for the rain.

  193. george,grabbed his leg methinks

  194. disappointed says:

    so this could place fogen on top right?

  195. Mojo says:

    Wouldn’t it be great if one of those stains on his sweatshirt or hoodie showed GZ’s fingerprints? Once can hope.

    • abbyj1 says:

      Mojo, As I understand it, there are ways of retrieving fingerprints from fabric, but I don’t know that the technology could work in this instance. That would be the coolest thing ever. You just know that GZ manhandled Trayvon, then held him by his jacket & shirt. His fingerprints & DNA must be on there.

  196. chi1224 says:

    The jury is asking themselves– how did Fogen’s DNA get on the INSIDE shirt… conclusion– Fogen was holding on to that inner shirt trying to “detain” Trayvon

  197. Unabogie says:

    So this is where Zimmerman lifted his sweatshirt to “frisk” him before flipping him over.

  198. Deborah Moore says:

    Chilling. GZ’s DNA on the shirt under the sweatshirt?

    • truthseeker66 says:

      Fogen said he patted him down to search for a weapon, right?

      • gbrbsb says:

        That’s what I think. Either GZ’s blood under Trayvon’s hoodie got there when GZ frisked him desperate to find a gun, knife or something that ensured he was a burgler, a thug, and he had therefore done a good job taking him out, or it got there as Trayvon tried to pull himself over GZ to escape and his undershirt brushed against GZ’s face. IMHO.

    • Malisha says:

      frisked the kid

  199. disappointed says:

    How does that happen? inside? zimmerman on bottom? must be that messed up gravitiy.

  200. diary73 says:

    Wow. That almost took that little guy out.

  201. KA says:

    Wow watching this….an entire swab from elbow to cuff…

    No snot, no saliva, no blood = No Contact….end of story.

    • KA says:

      If the talking heads STILL say Trayvon hit him, they are just racist pundits….

      • riisey007 says:

        Well yeah, that is the point of all this nonsense an defaming of the kid. These racist have no love for a mutt like Zimmerman. His mother is a Ni@@#$ to them but they hate blacks worst so they are rolling with Zimmerman, after the trial they will stop all of this. Don’t let me forget those that have chosen to take Zimmermans side because of being conservatives and pro gun nuts. It was never about Martin it has always been about personal agenda. I hate that his life meant so little to people. I hate that anybody’s life means so little to people.

  202. disappointed says:

    oh my Lord. Poor guy.

  203. crazy1946 says:

    This would be a good time for the state to prepare a room at the inn for the Fogdoit, he will be checking in sooner than expected. Make sure you turn on the climate control devices, we would not want it to get too cool for his fragile little body…. perhaps his new bunk buddy would be willing to help you put the room in order?

  204. Dee says:

    Proves Zimmerman wasn’t holding his arms spread eagle like he said. But that idiot Frank Taafee will be on the TV tonight talking about the rain washed it off, I guest.

    • Unabogie says:

      That’s a really good point. If Zimmerman had any blood on his hands at all there should be blood on Martin’s jacket from Zimmerman. But there just wasn’t. It’s as if he wasn’t even bleeding until after the shot.

      • riisey007 says:

        In order for that to happen Zimmerman would have had to actually defend himself and it seems he had no arms, legs, or any type of body strength because he had the weight advantage on a 158 lbs kid so how come he couldn’t knock him off? Does Zimmerman have the muscle mass of a 90 year old geriatric or something. There i no way on this earth that Zimmerman ha a fight with someone but never touched them. I have seen criminal shows where women have been attacked by men twice their size and left DNA due to scratching their killer or attacker. Come on, nobody fights like that. How can this kid cover your mouth but yet no blood of Zimmermans was on his hands, He covered his bloody nose but yet no blood of Zimmermans on his hands, he slammed his head on the concrete yet no dna of Zimmermans on his hands or sleeves. This has got to be the cleanest fight ever!! No wonder he was on last ditch meds for his behavior, he is crazy and he must be doped up powerfully to be able to sit through that trial. He has crazy eyes.

        The psychiatrist said last night that in Zimmermans mind he did the right thing and that he in his own mind is a victim.

    • KittySP says:

      Also proves he wasn’t using full weight of his harms to s,other GZ as he demonstrates in reenactment video.

    • gbrbsb says:

      No he wasn’t holding his arms out, sadly Trayvon died clutching his chest which is how SPD found him.

  205. MichelleO says:

    Justice For Trayvon!!!!

  206. TM’s Hoodie

    Stain A: Front lower matched TM
    Stain B on the sleeve

    Stain C is on the back of the hoodie: positive for blood, no DNA result.

    Tested Sleeves

    (Swabbed the entire surface)

    Right sleeve from elbows to cuff: No blood, No DNA foreign to TM

    Left sleeve from elbows to cuff: No Blood, No DNA foreign to TM

    • Malisha says:


      “I got on him and spread out his arms, because when he was hitting me it felt like he had something in his hands, all the while being very careful not to get any of my DNA on his sleeves, from wrist to elbow, of course. See, when I’m in a knock-down-drag-out-fight for my life, about to lose consciousness, I do not sweat, so my hands, as I moved his arms apart to check for weapons, would not transfer any DNA. Any questions? … Oh, besides being a cop, a judge and a prosecutor, I think I’ll also become a professor.”

  207. Two sides to a story says:

    An appropriate quote for Fogen from the Tricycle Daily Dharma:

    Warrior Mind

    Fear diminishes me, makes me no bigger than that part of me which fears. Fearful, I am too small to contain thought, too small to hold real compassion. Protecting myself, I will hurt others.

    – Sallie Tisdale, “Warrior Mind”

  208. MichelleO says:

    God bless you, Trayvon

  209. lurker says:



    ! ! ! ! ! !

  210. chi1224 says:

    No DNA from Fogen on the cuffs! We’ve known this but the jury is hearing it for the first time! Powerful!

  211. not fully understanding….is all this good for the state????

  212. MichelleO says:

    Was kind of sad, wasn’t it?

  213. Nate B says:

    No DNA found on fogen’s flashlight – would the inclement weather conditions that night be enough to negate any findings from DNA reports?

  214. Dee says:

    What really makes me mad, Is that Zimmerman has no remorse for killing this kid, and he knew he used extreme force. You don’t bring a gun to a fist fight. And if he was so scared he wouldn’t have gotten out of the truck to begin with. I have a permit to carry and that permit is for my protection and space, not the whole neighbor.

  215. chi1224 says:

    Is anyone expecting West to ask if testing the nails means there was no DNA from Fogen on the hands?

  216. Bag of Skittles: Blood present. Single source. Partial profile developed. Matched TM

    Flashlight: No blood present. No DNA present

    • abbyjj says:

      Professor, A quick question. Will the defense be able to enter into evidence the telephone/email/text records of Fogen? Is that evidence coming? Thank you.

  217. I understand the prosecution gets to do a rebuttal and will get to put up experts during that time….after the defense has finished BDLR goes again right?

    In the Arias case this happened because the states gets to do a rebuttal. I missed the first hour after lunch today.

  218. Fingernail scrapings:

    R-hand: Blood present, Single DNA source present. No DNA foreign present..

    L-hand: No DNA detected

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      That is significant right? as the defense has claimed that the evil rain wash all of poor GZ’s DNA and Blood off of Trayvon….

  219. disappointed says:

    skittles bag was in pocket it should only have Trayvon’s dna if any. imo

  220. disappointed says:

    No fogen dna. on right hand.

  221. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Yes the defense will use anything to create “reasonable doubt” only problem is not being able to include or exclude is not reasonable to believe TM touched anything

  222. Sabrina B. says:

    So the defense is going to say it was possible but they could not determine that Trayvon went for his gun.

  223. Pistol grip: Matched GZ, TM excluded

    Trigger: too little data to interpret.

    Slide: couldn’t include or exclude either individual

    Holster: Major contributor matched GZ, couldn’t exclude or include Martin

  224. Rob says:

    Gun recoil is where this is going i think.

  225. greenwarrior4 says:

    Whose blood on the pistol group?

  226. Sabrina B. says:

    Must mean West is going to cross. (rolling eyes)

  227. Dee says:

    MOM is not getting up anymore because he knows the Judge is ticked off with him, and he doesn’t want to jeopardize the trail. However, this other one is not too far behind him.

    • abbyj1 says:

      Dee, now that both MOM & West have made utter fools out of themselves and antagonized the judge,they may have to bring in a hired gun or the PetCo sock puppet to do their bidding.

  228. Fin Gomez:

    As Gorgone explains how tests DNA, Juror E6, writes, but also nods her head + looks up as the DNA expert speaks.

  229. crazy1946 says:

    I’ll say it once again if these idiots had spent as much time preparing for the case as they did giving interviews and press conferences they would not need to waste the courts time looking at documents they have had available for months in advance…

    • Tzar says:

      Every time they fumble for long available doc, I watch in disbelief

      • gwynne says:

        It’s kinda nice to know fogen has a ring side seat to observe the paper fumbler tag team. All those donations for…what??? lol

        • abbyj1 says:

          All those donations for what, gwynne? Oh, how quickly we forget: living large and lots of pop tarts.

    • abbyj1 says:

      Crazy1946, So true, and Judge Nelson is all too aware that the defense has squandered every available resource and TIME available to them. She’s quick to point to every date on the calendar that they’ve screwed up, and she is out of patience with them.

      What astonishes me is how MOM and West refuse to “get” it. They keep begging for more time, as though they do not understand the word “NO.” She’s said NO dozens of times.They just don’t want to hear it. Such disrespect for the court, and I’m sure that’s not sitting well with her.

    • Soulcatcher says:

      And it probaby took West several weeks to come up with that brilliant knock knock joke.

      • crazy1946 says:

        and he still wonders why the jury did not understand it, he ran it by his evil spawn and they did!

  230. FactsFirst says:

    woooow! SMDH…

  231. chi1224 says:

    I still can’t get over West asking the JAG law teacher– “Even if you confront someone”– something to that effect– basically admitting Fogen was the aggressor.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I know right! He just told on his slimey client

    • Boyd says:

      West agreed with Rachel that George approached him. maybe not intentional but he put it out there when he was trying to trick the girl.

      To paraphrase “and he turned around and sucker punched him?”

  232. Sabrina B. says:

    What is he doing now?

  233. disappointed says:

    Are you kidding me? Come on west.

  234. disappointed says:

    West will take forever with this guy.

  235. fauxmccoy says:

    now scientifically proven that the defendant is male
    but defense will contend he screams like a girl or a male in process of voice change.

  236. fauxmccoy says:

    BDLR – always a gentleman when approaching witnesses. the defense … not so much.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I was hoping to see Bernie’s Bull Dog side when questioning the defense witnesses. So….

      • fauxmccoy says:

        oh, you will. have you seen him in his pre-trial hearings? he’s formidable.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Sorry, I didn’t, but there were times in re-cross that I got glimpses. (rubbing my hands together with anticipation.)

  237. Exhibit 186 is a dried blood stain of TM’s blood taken at autopsy.

    Exhibit 188 is a buccal swab from George Zimmerman.

    He developed DNA profiles from those samples.

  238. And now we go to the results

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I freaking Luv results. Especially if they are perfect results.
      Two of Four of my favorite things.

  239. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    I think it’s important that only a small amount of DNA is needed to make a comparison, so the fact that NOT even 1 millionth of an index card amount of DNA was found on TM is significant…

  240. fauxmccoy says:

    would much rather to listen to this guy on DNA than west and his sound doctors.

  241. greenwarrior4 says:

    I wasn’t at my computer when court started this afternoon. Did West ask for Friday off before or after BDLR said state was done today?

  242. KittySP says:

    There goes that ‘blank stare, tight lip look’ again!

  243. gbrbsb says:

    If the State is resting it’s case today would that be definable by the KISS principle ?

    • crazy1946 says:

      I have been reading some of the legal sites that have commented on the Casey Anthony trial, and the consensus among most of them is the loss of the case was due to overload of information from the prosecution. Their thought seems to be that they loaded the jury down with so much information that they were actually unable to separate it to the point of determining guilt with complete confidence, ie reasonable doubt. Perhaps that is what the state is trying to prevent in this case?

      • gbrbsb says:

        I agree in principle, so maybe they are doing right… but they do seem to have left an awful lot out which is imo very worrying (to put it mildly) unless the law as some say will bar GZ basically from self defence !

      • Dee says:

        I think it good for woman, you know the way we are. We want to know everything, the what, when, why, how, ask their husbands.:)

    • For sure. The only element they really need to prove is ill will, depraved mind, etc. Fogen admitted the other elements. The state witnesses and evidence kind of blew the wind out of any self-defense sails.

  244. KittySP says:

    I say it was God’s plan that ‘Diary’ is there to represent us on this day!

  245. ada4750 says:

    Cut the grap BDLR

  246. Dee says:

    Why is no one focusing on the flow of blood that was on Zimmerman’s head? Gravity doesn’t lie. If you look at Zimmerman’s head the way, the blood is flowing toward his cheeks lets you know that he was on top of Trayvon. If he was on the bottom, the blood would be pooled in the middle of his head. And once he stood up gravity would have brought the blood down the back of his neck. His own blood is going to put him in jail. ”gravity” don’t lie. Why hadn’t this been brought out yet, I know somebody had to notice that.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Maybe that will come in under cross, but then the medical forensic yesterday did explain that if GZ’s nose was hit while horizontal in the melee with Trayvon, which I think is very possible, then it would not have bled out of the nostrils until GZ raised himself up to the vertical position. On the other hand, I believe one of the witnesses, maybe the same one, said something about lacerations of the scalp not bleeding immediately but pooling under the skin.

      • Dee says:

        Even so, blood doesn’t run up his to his cheek. Gravity would pull any blood down toward his back head neck. Blood can only flow the way the picture is showing if he had his head forward as could be when he was on Trayvon.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Agreed, but according to witnesses he walked along with his head bowed… IDK, but it appears what we felt could be important wasn’t… unless they don’t prove their case in which case it was!

          • Dee says:

            That sucks! I hope they don’t late this man walk with this are I moving out of this country, that would be ridicules.

  247. They like to have 1 to 1.5 nanograms of DNA to amplify, but will amplify with less.

  248. Deborah Moore says:

    Just because West was having a baby tantrum about the scheduling of deposing Krump, doesn’t mean the defense will present a case. He just wants a four day weekend, is my opinion.
    OMG – I’m going cynical, and I try to stay away from that, but, the defense as got me frustrated.

  249. disappointed says:

    Did JN say court has to be over by 530 tonight for more deposition?

    • Deborah Moore says:

      No. She said she plans on staying as long as it takes for the Prosecution to rest their case, and that she would discuss the Defense’s questions afterwards.
      I love the way she continues to explain to the defense about the jury being sequestered. She really supports her jury, imo.

    • ay2z says:

      Thought last comment was to intend court to go as long as needed to get the state’s case over and defense to begin on Friday morning.

  250. If past behavior is any indicator of future performance, then I think Fogen will disregard the advice of his counsel and will take the stand.

  251. Nef05 says:

    Did the do trajectory yet, and show the shot fogen claimed is impossible?

    • ay2z says:

      Not yet.

      We need to hear from Pleasance yet. OR have his depo read into evidence?

      We have not heard from Sybrina yet either, nor anyone other who can identify the screams.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Nope, so it has to be this afternoon because the State rests its case today!

  252. riisey007 says:

    I don’t know how much of the defense I will be able to stomach next week. I only have so many years to live and I don’t plan on spending 20 out of 24 hours in a day listening to them question each witness. I wish Judge Nelson was able to limit them but I know she can’t.

  253. gbrbsb says:

    Have I heard correctly that the forensics expert explained that Trayvon’s hoodie and sweat shirt were held together by the button he was wearing ?

    • gbrbsb says:

      Sorry, I of course mean the firearms expert!

      • gbrbsb says:

        Sorry again, I of course meant the forensic expert that examined Trayvon’s clothing… I am so type and word-smacked that the State is resting it’s case I can’t get my thoughts out properly!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I didn’t hear that – perhaps that’s true. Though I don’t see why Trayvon would pin it through both – much easier to pin to the hoody only.

      • gbrbsb says:

        I will have to listen again, because it appears she may have which would be unfortunate as it would explain why the holes were lined up.

    • Dee says:

      I think they were held together when Trayvon got away from Zimmerman when he tackled him trying to stop him from pointing that gun at him, screaming and hallowing. Then Zimmerman caught a hold of Trayvon by the shirt grabbing both shirts at once throwing Trayvon to the ground. Then Zimmerman MMA style they both did what they were learned to do. Trayvon was a football player, and I believe that’s how he stopped Zimmerman from raising that gun at him. He was standing his ground over that gun Zim was holding.
      And Zimmerman was the one with the MMA techniques; He was looking at a gun, and he knew he didn’t have anything but a tea and skittles. Zim wasn’t going for any phone in his pocket, why? He already called the cops, and they were on the way. Zimm showed Trayvon his gun and Trayvon tackled him to the ground. When he saw Zim gun pointing at him. Trayvon got away from him and while he did this Zim then grabbed him by the shirt. And catch both shirts in his hand, slinging him to the ground. This is when Zim while still holding his shirts he got on Trayvon shooting him once in the chest, while he was still holding both of his shirt in his hands.

      However, we will see if the hole in Trayvon chest doesn’t line up with the shirt. Which it probably won’t because Zimmerman was holding his shirt away from the body that was stippling was not on the skin, because the shirts were being held by Zimmerman when he shot him. It is also why the blood flow on his head is flowing down his cheeks instead of behind him as gravity would make it go.

  254. KittySP says:

    Prof. You think defense caught off guard hearing state planning to rest today?

  255. The FBI developed the STR/PCR kit that all the crime labs use.

  256. crazy1946 says:

    The defense goes first..

  257. disappointed says:

    i think state defense and state gets 1 more go after defense

  258. Nef05 says:

    Hi – looking forward to reading comments after I,left this morning in the middle of Capt. Handsome (sigh…). Hoping I missed good stuff and fogen is well on his way to prison…

  259. greenwarrior4 says:

    Is it already known who goes first/who goes last in closing arguments?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The prosecution goes last.

    • Mojo says:

      Someone with real legal knowledge can correct me if necessary. I believe the closing argument works in the same manner as witness testimony. Witness testimony goes direct, cross, then redirect with the direct and redirect going to the party who called the witness. Since this is the State’s case I think the closing argument goes State, Defense, and back to State. Is this right?

  260. dremn2004 says:


    • disappointed says:

      that’s dangerous.

      • dremn2004 says:


        I will use this as a quick thank you to everyone for posting here during the trial. I am at work all day and am not able to watch until I get home and I use you guys to know what I need to really pay attention to and not miss. (I ff through all the bs from the commentators).

        You guys are awesome and thank you so much!!

        • Ezell Cooper says:

          I would also like to extend my gratitude for having a place to go and interact with civil minded humans. Not having to read horrible comments about Trayvon and his Parents. Thank you so much Mr. Letterman and all the posters I respect each and every one of you with your knowledge, I will be donation to this site. Thank you again.

  261. Stormwatch says:

    Are we going to see anymore cellphone stuff? Calls made or received, texts, GPS?

    • breelee says:

      I was just going to ask that. Plus the clubhouse videos explained. My gawd there’s still so much, I’m in shock.

      • breelee says:

        Oh gosh, and the ME and what about the dog walking boy, Sabrina, Tracy, SHELLIE!

      • Malisha says:

        I think that stuff will come in on rebuttal.
        I want to hear ballistics and autopsy — unless I missed them both (was on 2 errands). Anybody?

        • elle says:

          Ballistics was covered, I guess. Just the gun, not the position of the bullet or anything like that. And, nothing as far as autopsy or medical relating to Trayvon.

    • crazy1946 says:

      If the defense calls Manlo (spelling?), I think they will come in especially in regards to whom the Fogdoit was talking to when the photo of his upper appendage was taken with him talking on the phone….

      • willisnewton says:

        It appears he was possibly calling NEN again, but did not connect. The phone records have been published in discovery.

        Manalo says however that he was “talking on the phone” so that’s still unclear.

        the totality of what Manalo saw and what ofc tim smith saw and did is not clear yet. Both were asked specific questions, as is the process but there could have been more conversation by all three persons present that we won’t ever know about.

        many things are possible… many things we will never know about, happened. What GZ says happened is not possible.

  262. disappointed says:

    Will he know how rain washed blood off of Trayvon but not fogen? Snark

  263. ay2z says:

    Deposing Ben Crump has been a big media splash by the defense, but is it a red herring for over a month now?

    Are West’s protestations-interruptions in court just now, all about appeal possibilities? Hoping JN would not allow them to depose Crump, or other related reasons?

  264. fauxmccoy says:

    dang — he didn’t use maury povitch as a source for dna testing 😦

  265. riisey007 says:

    Okay prosecution knock it out the box with the DNA guy, please!!

  266. Judy75201 says:

    I love brilliant men like this witness.

  267. Anthony Gorgone.

    FDLE/DNA guy

  268. I fixed the italics problem.

  269. Sabrina B. says:

    Go Anthony! Show fogen his failures. Both in his personal life and in his efforts to stage a crime.

  270. elle says:

    I gotta go make bread! My nerves are shot now.

  271. ada4750 says:

    Shaffer says O’Mara will introduce the timeline. The world is upside down.

  272. Unabogie says:

    I am really upset at this.

  273. chi1224 says:

    They act like Crumps a big deal…. he’s not. They are desperate.

    • riisey007 says:

      They think he prompted Rachael to say what she stated in her testimony so they want to have a chance to ask him but most likely drag him through the mud for all their racist supporters because this is what it is about.

      • chi1224 says:

        Six hours on the stand and West couldn’t break Rachael… it ain’t gonna happen no matter what they do…. like I said desperate!

        • riisey007 says:

          Well it all depends on how the jurors took her, we understand her but at the same time she was somewhat rude. I hope that they could see through all of that and be fair but that is all up to them and I am not completely convinced that they won’t be prejudiced by it. It would be silly to not think at least one of them wasn’t offended.

          • chi1224 says:

            They don’t have to like her, just believe her, and I think she was very believable. Very raw and honest.

  274. Rob says:

    Prosecution missed the oppurtunity when MOM said police officers carry a bullet in the chamber, fogen is not a police officer

    • crazy1946 says:

      I have no doubt that if we heard it, the jury heard it…..

    • fauxmccoy says:

      expect it comes up in closing — that that technique the defense has used since opening statements is brought up and driven home. it is part of their case that GZ was a ‘wannabe cop’

  275. Sorry, I’m a little late.

    State is going to rest this afternoon.

  276. Judy75201 says:

    Why is everything italicized?

  277. chi1224 says:

    Wow judge Nelson is getting ready to flip out on O’Mara! Good! He needs to STFU!!!

  278. ada4750 says:

    BDLR is in hurry to finish. LOL.

  279. groans says:

    Request a mid-trial continuance, Your Honor!

  280. Judy75201 says:

    Hold that asshat in contempt, Judge Nelson!

  281. riisey007 says:

    People were saying that they don’t believe that State will rest so soon well actually according to the judge they resting today. That’s that!!

    • truthseeker66 says:

      No way they have not call fdle. I’m getting nervous. Are they going to call Sabryna?

      • riisey007 says:

        I don’t know but I am sure they will call Martins mom it only seems right. Bernie did say they may go into Friday morning at the most.

  282. fauxmccoy says:

    follow (no keltek)

  283. groans says:


    • crazy1946 says:

      Sorry, but no…. even thou I dialed a wrong number trying to get help for the Ice Cream Man, it was still 1st! 😉

  284. crazy1946 says:


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