How to prepare a winning closing argument

Saturday, June 29, 2013

Good morning:

My opinion of Don West continues to plunge.

What can I say about a soporific opening statement that began with a knock-knock joke?

What can anyone say about a five-hour cross examination of a 19-year-old girl that relied on using insults to intimidate and get her to agree to his false statements?

Here is something that I can and did say to Tee about Mark O’Mara’s choice to play the possible fish game while cross examining the Physician’s Assistant.

The PA is not a specialist in diagnosing and treating traumatic head wounds.

Therefore, she was not the right person to question about the possible causes and severity of the defendant’s head wounds.

The bottom line is the defendant declined multiple offers to transport him to the ER after the shooting and he did not go to the clinic seeking treatment the following morning. He went there to get a note authorizing him to return to work and he refused to PA’s recommendation to follow up with an ENT specialist.

He also never requested or obtained an Xray, which is something that he could still do today. An Xray taken today would show a healed fracture.

There is a reason why the defendant declined medical treatment and never requested an Xray.

When O’Mara went fishing for additional possible injuries and related concerns based on an examination of the photographs of the defendant’s head taken at the police station, he caught a boatload of possible fish.

There is no known recipe for preparing possible fish.

Since the defendant did not mention, much less complain about those specific bumps or lumps on his head, there is no reason to believe those possible fish were real fish.

O’Mara pulled off a pretty good smoke-and-mirrors cross, but in the end there wasn’t anything there.

We did find out, however, that the defendant was working out for 3 hours 3 times per week doing MMA style aerobics at the Kokopelli Gym starting in August 2011.

I used cross examination to create building blocks made out of statements, admissions, or denials by witnesses. I constructed my summation or closing argument out of those building blocks.

I would be shocked to discover that Bernie de la Rionda does not have one or more medical experts who will be testifying about the defendant’s injuries.

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649 Responses to How to prepare a winning closing argument

  1. Katy says:

    I’ve read a few people suggest that GZ pulled T down on to the ground … would it be possible that when/if he did this, T’s head or face caused Z’s minor facial injuries, that is T’s head landed on Z’s nose? Maybe this could also have caused the little scratches on the back of Z’s head?

    My mother was being treated for cancer (chemo and radiation). She stood up in the kitchen, and it was too much for her. Anyway, she backflipped, went down in an arc, and landed on her head. This was on lino, not concrete. She ended up with a gash to her head of about 2 inches.

  2. MedicineBear says:

    Mr. Leatherman–I just donated a love offering to honor your fine work here. Thank you. (Wanted to get it in before the asteroid hits!)

    A question for you: Can CACa’s Hannity interview be submitted into evidence? If so, how would they do that? (I’m thinking it might be God’s Will for the jury to see parts of it).

    • Xena says:

      @MedicineBear. The prosecution has the custodian of records for Fox on their witness list. So yes, the Hannity interview will be introduced at trial.

  3. disappointed says:

    I recall Rachel saying : Trayvon said he is getting closer and then Trayvon asked why are you following me? Now I know following you is normally behind you but what if he ran up on him. It is still following but maybe a sneak attack from another direction. Am I making sense?

    • Nef05 says:

      Yes, you’re saying it’s another flip the script lie by fogen. That what he says Trayvon did, is in actuality what HE did.

  4. EdgySF says:

    Just this week we’ve had two #famousracists: #PaulaDeen #FamousRacist, and #MollyWest #FamousRacist.

    Who are some other #FamousRacists?

    • ay2z says:

      How many names on the SPD and famous Seminole county politicians, do you want?

      From another case, Mark Fuhrmann. Why celebrate them as ‘famous’, there’s got to be another term besides the celebratory celeb, or tv stars’ who are in this category. This should not be a claim to fame for anyone. ‘infamous’ might be better to make a distinction.

  5. Malisha says:

    I wonder how many of Dad’s trials the West girls have attended. Probably not many where he was a PD defending poor defendants who couldn’t grab all the publicity. Interesting they show up for the Afro-Peruvian child-killer. More interesting is the fact that if THEY THOUGHT DADDY KILLED IT by Tuesday of this week, they’re cognitively impaired. Lucky they’re white and blond or they would never have a career doing anything other than flipping burgers.

    • Tzar says:

      More interesting is the fact that if THEY THOUGHT DADDY KILLED IT by Tuesday of this week, they’re cognitively impaired.

      he really did not

      • type1juve says:

        No he did not! Mr. Don set out to break Rachel down and this poor, black teenager from the “hood” schooled his ass in front of the world. Rachel exposed Mr. Don for the racist maggot that he is and anyone who thinks he got the best of her is living in an alternate universe.

    • ay2z says:

      Malisha, I beg to disagree, they can ‘flip flippant comments over on the dady tree stump! Maybe for a few coins from daddy’s pocket or GZ’s defense fund, or a few free swirlie cones with ice- chemical-cream’ that holds shape for an extended time for fhoto ops in the Florida shine)

    • Trained Observer says:

      Based on what little I know, I view them as discount-rate finishing school dummies, at best, with a daddy who’s a lawyuuuuuur. .

  6. ay2z says:

    Anyone wonder how fogen might have got his ‘Achmed the Terrorist’ jokes?

    Here’s one, “Amchmed the Dead Terrorist”, a Jeff Dunham character, guess where?? On FOX/

  7. Boyd says:

    I worked with a couple of creole speaking Caribbean girls from St. Lucia and Haiti, they take no crap. They may get mad and get their Cutlass. What’s a Cutlass I would ask.
    I had no problems understanding Rachel, I do not understand why it was so hard for people to understand her..

    • elcymoo says:

      The only problems I had were with her soft voice and the courtroom mikes. She wasn’t the only witness I had trouble hearing. I had more trouble following Don West’s lengthy, compound questions that were obviously designed to trip her up. I literally cheered when she told him ‘That’s retarded, SIR’.

    • EdgySF says:

      Gwen Ifill, my favorite tv reporter, is from the Islands. She’s awesome!!!!!

    • Aunt Bea says:

      Seriously???!!!

      I blamed the recording at first, but she was no better in person.
      Sadly, she is 19 and ready to enter the work force.
      I give her no pass on her enunciation. We all have the same parts to form the words.
      I understand her hostility, though.

      Her failure to work. on the witness stand, to make herself better understood is notable.

      Too many people just brush off their shortcomings with “that is just the way I am”. It seems self-improvement is lost with too many people.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        I find your lack of sympathy notable.
        Seriously.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I saw she has braces, an underbite, and her tongue protrudes slightly. That makes it hard to create the sounds of “s,” “z,” “sh,” “t,” “d,” “th,” “ch,” “j,” “l,” “n,” and any consonant combination using the front of the tongue. Try putting your jaw in an underbite position (lower teeth in front of upper teeth), and you will be sympathetic to her pronunciation problems, and her frustration making herself understood. BTW I never noticed any foreign accent.

        Then add to that a several-hours marathon in public view being questioned by the lawyer defending her friend’s murderer, whose goal is to make her look 1) too stupid to remember what she heard, 2) duplicitous, 3) incoherent, and 4) contemptible.

        I think she made West look like 2), 3), and 4). It was very difficult for her to be in the public eye like that, and she has my sympathy.

      • groans says:

        And some people wear their shortcomings on their sleeves…..

      • Xena says:

        @Aunt Bea.

        Sadly, she is 19 and ready to enter the work force.

        Didn’t you hear Bernie’s questions to Rachel? In the fall she will be entering the 12th grade. She will be 20 on Feb.1st, 2014 and a senior. Rachel is to be admired for her strength and courage to continue her education.

      • Malisha says:

        Wow. Her life did not prepare her for being a witness in a murder trial. Whose does? None should.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Aunt Bea — It would appear you’re flunking the course on self-improvement. Try to brush up on your facts and maybe you won’t be such a failure in understanding the situation.

      • KA says:

        She is in high school. She talked and acted like someone in high school.

        I would rather have a Rachel that works for me (or some one I work for or with) any day over a seemingly judgmental, arrogant, biased Molly West…

        The incredible Bob Sutton wrote an amazing business book in 2007 called the “No More Assholes Rule”. I used it as a reference source in my masters dissertation a few years ago. A Molly West would cost a company considerably more regardless of her qualifications over a person of some less business ability that is willing to learn, sociable, and work with a group like Rachel.

        I saw on one of her tweets she was thinking of becoming an investigator.

        I wish her all the success in her future.

        • dianetrotter says:

          I could see Molly/Rachel West coming in late all the time, gossiping about other people, not doing their work, and being selective about what they will do.

  8. Deborah Moore says:

    If you missed Melissa Harris-Perry’s show this morning, she did a fine job of discussion Dee Dee’s testimony and the fall out, judgement and shaming of her, with a good panel discussion.
    The show just ended, but should be available for viewing later today.

    • EdgySF says:

      Thanks! I’ll look for it. Intelligent analysis = breath of fresh air.

      I’ve had no faith in our local media (Orlando) since tv reporter Barbara West asked Joe Biden, during Obama’s first presidential run, how his philosophy is similar to socialism.

      Orlando media should hang their heads in shame. It was the national media who broke the real story behind this murder, not WESH nor the Orlando Sentinel.

      OS should have provided some investigative journalism…especially re: the Wolfinger connection.

      Orlando is a corrupt swamp of greedy Neanderthals. Believe me, I know. Molly Wests rule the roost here. 😦

      • Deborah Moore says:

        I’m sorry. It’s probably too late to move away, right?
        Believe it or not, I was talking to a lady in line at the drug store yesterday, and out of the blue she told me she hates living in California and is moving to Texas. I only responded with I know some very nice folks who live there. I didn’t say, Oh, so you’re one of those bigots, right?
        Some folks are too far gone for me to even try.

        • EdgySF says:

          I have a good job, nice home & life here. I’ve lived all over the world, but for better or for worse, Orlando has always been my home base. My dad’s health is poor right now, so moving is not an option.

          I want to bloom where I was planted, and this is my hometown. It really is beautiful…brick roads, oak trees, lakes, cute bungalows. Lots to do

          Did you see what happened in Austin last week re: the filibuster? That was amazing – even moreso, because it was Texas! 🙂

          • Woow! says:

            There is a lot of stupidity, greed, and rich folks running things in TX.

          • cielo62 says:

            EdgySF- not all of us in Texas are mentally challenged, morally bankrupt rednecks. The next step us to send Rick Perry packing!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

      • EdgySF says:

        FYI…WESH reporter barbara west is not married to don west…but I don’t know if they have any other connection.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Well the area is known as the Disney area, so this is a blow back on them and I’m sure they feel it. Even if they’re keeping their distance, I’m sure the governor has heard from them on it. Disney has to be very careful about the people and contractors they employ, my guess is they’ve begun a process of vetting them and they’ve probably also got an eye on local government as well. After all, they have a lot to loose if things break wild at some point in time.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @ deborah moore who says

      If you missed Melissa Harris-Perry’s show this morning, she did a fine job of discussion Dee Dee’s testimony and the fall out, judgement and shaming of her, with a good panel discussion.

      excellent! i can think of no one better than MHP to take this issue and run with it! i will be sure to find a re broadcast, thank you for alerting me. 🙂

  9. Rachael says:

    Excellent article: Rachel Jeantel Gets the Trayvon Martin Treatment

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/06/28/rachel_jeantel_witness_in_george_zimmerman_trial_gets_the_trayvon_martin.html

    The dehumanization of Rachel Jeantel—the laughter, the disbelief—is rooted in the same attitude that causes people to treat unarmed black kids with suspicion, to follow them around subdivisions for no good reason. I rarely agree with Nancy Grace, but yesterday on HLN she made a decent point. “Oh, everybody can laugh all they want to. She can’t read cursive. Or that she has nicknames she goes by that some people may laugh at; this one is ‘Diamond Eugene.’ You know what? Laugh all you want to. Nobody ever said that a murder trial was a tea party, where everybody had perfect manners and spoke perfectly. That’s not what this is about.”

    And she’s right. A lot of the people in our jails and prisons come from poor black neighborhoods, and the witnesses in their trials are often made uncomfortable by courtrooms and judges and aggressive defense attorneys. Dismissing them and what they have to say because of their grammar and demeanor says more about us than it does about them.

    • Boyd says:

      Diamond Eugene she went by? My god, That girl is a riot

      she sure opened a lot of eyes about teenage culture in Miami.

      lol!

    • Malisha says:

      In general, though, the witnesses made uncomfortable in those trials are made uncomfortable by aggressive prosecutors who don’t want pre-defense witnesses to come off as comprehensible or believable, no matter what.

  10. i have decided,( not a phd psychologist) that fogen is a sociopath,that has a great thrill in the chase,and killing of his prey,like a spree killer.If not imprisoned he will kill again.he also felt TOTALLY JUSTIFIED in snuffing out this cute,sweet young mans life.

    • Rachael says:

      He will feel more justified than ever.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      First up: Let’s forget about gz’s head ever coming into contact with the sidewalk!

      A sidewalk is a blunt force instrument, a head making forcible contact with the sidewalk will have subdural hemorrhaging over a wide area surrounding each point of contact. There is no such hemorrhaging anywhere on gz’s head. Therefore, forcible contact with the sidewalk is ruled out. Never happened!

      Second: The two injuries his head does display are sharp force injuries. So, unless Trayvon had some sort of weapon, Trayvon is not the source of those injuries! So that never happened either!

      Thus gz is in possession of absolutely no injuries at all that Trayvon could have been the source of. Yet gz is seen chasing and detaining Trayvon and then killing him. He is without a reason for doing so, save the self serving lies that he tells in order to justify the murder he committed, in hopes of avoiding a prison sentence, there for!

      gz had every advantage over the child and had he not killed him, nobody would have been killed at all. It is clear that Trayvon was not capable of killing, either mentally or physically! His physical description is “youthful and frail”. His mental condition can only be described as terrified!

      • KA says:

        Not to mention the obvious lack of direct, gravel, etc.

        I lived in North Central Fl as a kid. When it rained o a sidewalk in a landscaped/grass area, dirt, worms, pebbles, etc ALL came up on the sidewalk. When it dried the next day, it was the kids job (ie mine) to sweep the dried dirt, pebbles, and dead worms off the sidewalk.

        If it had been raining all day (at points HARD rain), I KNOW there was some dirt/gravel/pebbles from the grass on the sidewalk.

        His bloody head is very, very clean, no smears, with no trace of sidewalk “debris”. Those jurors live in FL…they KNOW about this…

  11. smokeegyrl says:

    Good Morning it is Sunday. I reading through the 283 page PDF file just scanning over it, coming over that caught my eye. So now I need to look and find out what some slangs words mean, in some communities or maybe someone can help.

    On the MySpace page Fogen states this and I am curious as to what he means.

    “I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he’s at my house with his boys on bikes before I hang up with her? They do a year and don’t ever open thier mouth to get my ass pinched.”

    • Boyd says:

      yeah I remember that. Fogen can do anything he wants.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      I found it… it’s gang talk for “arrest* So it is true… Fogen was involved in something that was kept quiet. the tat on his body of the be happy and cry later is the gang simple. just wanted to make sure. I think that just might come up in trial.

  12. Boyd says:

    I agree professor West has looked awful.

    yesterday I stated he was a pretty good lawyer with a flaw of spending way too much time to get to his point.

    I’m guessing when you know your client is lying you would look stupid trying to defend him.

    I’m not a lawyer so I will defer to your opinion.

  13. KA says:

    One of the best social commentaries I have ever read. Kuddos on a fantastic posting and a topic that would be the groundwork of a PhD thesis with honors.

    http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2013/06/30/the-don-and-his-adult-daughters-booze-partying-and-appropriation-daddy-will-fix-it/

    • KA says:

      Just to clear up any ambiguity about the day the picture was taken….this does it. The tie worn in the picture matches TUESDAY right after Don cut off questioning for the day with what he thought was a “doozy”!

      • KA says:

        The tie don’t lie….

        • riisey007 says:

          Sidewalks don’t either from what I’ve heard!

        • blushedbrown says:

          @KA
          HA!
          good observation

        • colin black says:

          there was foggagges d n a an unknown d n a on the gun I r c the pistol grip.
          One profile was foggagges the other was not TRAYVONS…

          Normaly everyone whom could possably touched guns dna would be taken for comparison as was the case with unknown dna on tape Wrapped round weee CAYLEES SCULL.

          They rested LE techs lab techs an no match hence the unknown status.

          This being Sandford an the original non investigation into a good justified kill by decent Merican

          I suppose they tested foggagge his wife an Trayvon an that’s about it an labelled it unknown.

          If they had tested a few cops an perhaps instructors at the range osreman ect
          It would not have been unknown. m o o.

    • Judy75201 says:

      They do fantastic work over at dothprotest!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Good post.

    • Rachael says:

      I agree. It was an excellent article. I hope some of the defense people checking out the internet run into it.

    • parrot says:

      Excellent! Thank you for posting it.

      • parrot says:

        WordPress is still misplacing responses.

        This was posted in response to KS’s sharing an insightful article from Dothprotest.com.

  14. FactsFirst says:

    off topic, but… Have we seen the two pictures Officer Micheal Wagner took that he forgot about for 24 days after the shooting???

    If not, this week is going to be very intresting..

  15. Two sides to a story says:

    I’d wondered what happened to the Filexican. He was a rabid GZ supporter who decided early on that Fogen was guilty and did some scathing videos about him. I googled him this morning and it looks like he’s back to supporting Fogen on Twitter. https://twitter.com/mrfilexican

    • Malisha says:

      HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! He’s not “flexible” he’s “flip flop”!

      We’ll never figure out what happened to his mental process or even if it WAS a mental process. It would be fun to come up with theories, though.

  16. I have increased the nesting feature from 3 levels to 5

    I’m hoping this will fix the problem of comments posting in unexpected places.

  17. dianetrotter says:

    Shouldn’t BDLR call neighbors whose children played football with him on previous visits? Can someone testify that GZ had seen Trayvon there before?

  18. Sophia33 says:

    I have a series of questions that I hope I phrase right. But there is a point to it. They poke holes in Zimmerman’s story to me.

    1. If you are being followed by someone and you plan to confront them, why run away? Why not just confront them? It’s not like, if we are going to go by Zimmerman’s story, that Trayvon Martin was trying to go with an element of surprise. Even Zimmerman doesn’t say that Trayvon jumped out of the bushes and just hit him. So again, if he was going to confront Zimmerman, why didn’t he just confront him?

    2. If you are being followed by someone and lose them, how do you know where they are going to be? In other words, how did Trayvon know that Zimmerman was going to be at the “T” since according to Zimmerman he couldn’t see Trayvon Martin when he first passed the “T”? How did Trayvon known that Zimmerman was going to walk back past the “T”? And if he miraculously knew that Zimmerman was going to walk past the “T”, how did he know WHEN Zimmerman would walk past the “T”? It doesn’t make sense.

    The only way Trayvon would encounter Zimmerman, by Zimmerman’s own account would be if Zimmerman made himself known to Trayvon Martin. And the only way he would have made himself known is if he would have followed Trayvon Martin, since Rachel said Trayvon Marting lost Zimmerman and since Zimmerman said he lost Trayvon. Also, if you notice in the cross examination of Rachel, the defense didn’t dispute that Trayvon Martin said “Why are you following me?”. West didn’t dispute it in opening statement. In fact, he used it. Therefore, he is admitting that his client LIED. His client lied about continuing to follow Trayvon Martin.

    Finally, I know others have disagreed with me, but I hope that Taaffe takes the stand. It’s the only time I want to hear his mouth. He said in an interview that Zimmerman (paraphrase) “was fed up and wasn’t gonna take it anymore”. That speaks to GZ’s intentions towards Trayvon.

    If someone can phrase what I am trying to say better, please do so.

    • Rachael says:

      you did great and I know I’ve had those same questions.

    • You asked great questions that I believe the State will discuss in its closing argument.

      If he testifies, he might be cross examined about those matters.

      • pat deadder says:

        Judge Nelson asked omara if he wanted her to include the phrase ”The right to remain silent”in the jury instructions and he omara said yes.Does this mean fogen is not going to testify.

        • Malisha says:

          Although I personally would like to see Fogen on the stand to make it clear to the jury what a terrible liar and what an awful person he is, on the other hand it’s kinda delightful that the defense knows it cannot risk letting him open his damn mouth. He put himself into this situation. That part is part of the meaning of justice.

          • pat deadder says:

            Malisha I too wanted to see fogan on the stand.I know I sound cruel but I wanted to see him get humiliated by BDLR.I guess he and his lawyers know his bullshit days are over.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            To keep gz off the stand they’re going to need some very credible witness to put his self defense claim before the jury. So far it hasn’t been done. Nor is it likely they will be able to do it.

            If they don’t, and they don’t put gz on the stand, the case will go to the jury without a self defense claim. Bye bye gz goodbye!

            He’ll be authorized to leave the courtroom by that door behind him. I suspect it leads to a holding pen area.

    • crazy1946 says:

      This is how the Fogdoit would answer your questions! As Trayvon got out of his car armed with a can of tea and a bag of candy, he decided that it was time to kill that CAAPC, he was determined that this HONKY was not going to get away! He chased poor little frail Fogdoit down and when Fogdoit turned to confront him Trayvon tore open the bag of candy and threw the pieces under the Fogdoits feet causing him to fall and hit his head upon the concrete weapon now known as the side walk. Trayvon then skipped up to the Fogdoit and hit him on the nose with the can of tea, being careful not to damage the can. Then to really make sure that he hurt the Fogdoit as much as possible he reached into the Fogdoit’s waist band drew out the pistol and placed the pistol into the Fogdoits hand drew it to his chest and forced Fogdoit to murder him! See how simple and believable that story is? I suppose I was supposed to start this story out with “Once Upon A Time”?

      • Sophia33 says:

        Crazy1946:

        I believe it! That must have been how it happened. LOL!

        CAAPC means?

      • Malisha says:

        No, C1946, you didn’t need to start the story with “Once upon a time” because it has happened over and over and over. Many pons-a-times. An every day occurrence. That is why we have to make sure people like Trayvon Martin are not allowed to just go and get themselves some skittles and tea any damn time they feel like it.

    • riisey007 says:

      You did wonderful!! We all want to know the same thing, this is why I believe that since Zimmerman said to the non emergency operator that he was running toward the back that he was the one that seemed to be more than likely to jump Martin because he knows which way Martin ran but unless Martin was running backwards he would assume that he lost Zimmerman back in his truck. that is until Zimmerman catches up to Martin who has stopped running which caused Martin to say ” What are you following me for”?

      The other thing that makes me mad is the fact that Zimmerman seems to be setting this kid up to be murdered by him or taken to the police station for no apparent reason. Zimmerman says: somethings wrong with him, he looks like he is on drugs, he’s coming to check me out, he is reaching in his waist band, he is looking about at the houses. This whole thing was a setup.

      Can anyone tell me if there were really anywhere to hide along that path? I have seen trees but they are very thin and a person could never hide behind them. Where could Martin hide that Zimmerman would not have time to see him coming?

    • Rachael says:

      yes she is and I love her too

    • Sophia33 says:

      When Rachel said, “That would be real retarded, sir.” She had to have won points with the jury. Why? Because she was expressing common sense. West asked a stupid question and in the process was insulting folks common sense.

      Rachel the modern day Mose Wright!

  19. crazy1946 says:

    Sunday morning, I checked the Florida news and there was no mention of a lightning strike upon a church there. That means that the Fogdoit probably did not attend church this morning. One could only wonder what he is doing on this, one of his last days as a somewhat free individual (please note I did not call him a man)? Do you suppose he has a bucket list of things he wants to do before he becomes bubbas new gurl frien? While I still expect that he will attempt to flee before the trial is over, the question comes to mind, will he use this escape attempt as a means of suicide? Will he exhibit more courage in this attempt to flee than he did when he murdered a child? Only time will tell, I truly hope he does not commit suicide by attempting to escape, I want him to wake up next to his new bbf bubba every day, for a lot of years, remembering what he did that allowed him to become bubbas play toy….

  20. Sophia33 says:

    On one of my posts is not where I replied to someone. It seems out of place. I was responding to Woow who said he could understand Rachel. I shared his sentiment and spoke about how she ran the courtroom. That post ended up in response to one of Dennis’ posts. It seems out of place.

  21. Beverly says:

    I know this is not the most important thing at trial, but….Does anyone know what may have occurred about West’s chewing wad? As above, I think it has disappeared and that didn’t happen quickly enough. It is shocking to me that he may have thought that wad and spittoon were acceptable in court. I am merely curious: Do you think he wised up?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think the interns trawl all sites for reactions and probably were reading that people noticed whatever he was chewing.

    • MollyK says:

      Good point. And I have a question – is it common in some parts of the country for people to chew tobacco? In particular, do attorneys do this in court?

      • Beverly says:

        I have never seen or heard of such. Ive had some court experience that always seemed to witness very high respect and deference for the Court; so I did not understand that crude behavior.

  22. jo says:

    who is up on monday? i have been waiting to have my internet connected and finally got to watch live on friday then fell asleep during jon’s testimony…..doh….i think he was pretty good for the prosecution though….”tell her i shot someone”…he was coherent etc…bdlr is setting them up big time…..

    did West have a press conference or did i read that wrong? and does anyone have a link to where bdlr showed west his computer and west went white.. i missed all that. thanks in advance beautiful people..xx

  23. shyloh says:

    This may have been asked and answered. So many post to go through to find out haha. Anyways, Can the pros. use the photo of Don West and his talented ice cream eating group be used to show that the defense taunts? I’ll call her Dee Dee. I feel so bad for that girl even if she was a hostile witness. Living in Chicago for years. I know how some cultures are. And I really do feel so bad for her. No wonder she acted the way she did. West should be ashamed. Even if his daughter is the one that posted that “STOOOOOPID” photo!

    • RobertSF says:

      Unfortunately, no, the prosecution can’t do anything with the ice-cream photo. For one, West’s daughter posted it, and she looks over 18. It also appears from the tie West is wearing that the photo was taken Monday, before Dee Dee testified, so the taunt is not directed at her. The whole thing was just a classless thing to do, but not actionable in any way that I can tell.

      • shyloh says:

        Thank you. Sad that they can’t. I just feel Dee Dee was upset over everything that has happened to her on the stand and on the media network. That is why she acted as she did I believe. And I for one don’t blame her. Sad the Jury can’t see how Mr. West brought up his own daughter. Just my opinion.

      • Endless Summer says:

        I was wondering if the incident could not be construed as witness intimidation? No matter who the “defeating stupidity” was in reference to, it seems that a witness might temper their testimony in fear of being ridiculed by the defense team on Social Media sites.

      • Trained Observer says:

        RobertSF … agreed, not actionable. Bt disgusting nevertheless. I

        Instead of licking ice cream, the classless/clueless West girlies ought to be hauling their old man off for a physical and psych test after that knock-knock joke.

      • Rachael says:

        The photo may have been take Monday, but if I recall, it was posted after Rachel testified. The sad thing is Shyloh, it isn’t like she was some kid posting stuff, she is 23 so not much daddy can do at this point, but I do hope it helps pull some heads out of the sand who have been saying stuff about Trayvon’s parents.

        • KA says:

          BTW, who said it was taken Monday? Was that West?

          My new phrase “the tie don’t lie..” but if it was West who said it, then there is someone else who does.

      • KA says:

        No, it was not taken Monday. Notice the tie in the pic….and compare it to the court day. It was taken Tuesday.

        • KA says:

          If anyone thinks this has nothing to do with deposing Rachel has their head in the sand.

          • crazy1946 says:

            With only their toe’s sticking out of the sand!! I hope there is a come to Jesus moment for the MOM/West team tomorrow morning when this is brought to Judge Nelson’s attention!

      • KA says:

        Who had said it was taken Monday?

        The tie in the picture is the tie worn on Tuesday in court….immediately after his time with Rachel.

        If it’s West, he’s a ly’in….

  24. fauxmccoy says:

    yet another thoughtful article from attorney debbie hines regarding the testimony of rachel jeantel. the article is an accurate accounting of the racism, sexism and classism which was so blatantly on display.

    http://tiny.cc/dophzw

    • crazy1946 says:

      fauxmccoy, excellent article, with very valid point of view! Too bad many people still judge the book by the cover…. I can only commend Rachel Jeantel for the courage that the exhibited by coming forth and testifying on the stand, too bad it looks like the individual that murdered her friend is too cowardly to do the same.

  25. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      For review of State’s opening:

      Notes from cfnews (We will need to clarify and add to, etc.)

      http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/24/zimmerman_opening_statements.html

      10:03 a.m.
      Guy begins his opening statement with an expletive he says Zimmerman said. He repeats it again saying they were the words in the defendants head before using a “pistol” to shoot Martin.
      Guy points at Zimmerman, describing that he was “upright” and preparing to tell police why he “profiled” and “murdered and unarmed teenager.”
      Guy says Zimmerman used hate-filled words to describe an unknown person.
      He says he will describe in detail the end of Trayvon Martin’s life, which he says was the product of two worlds colliding.
      He says in one world, Martin went to the store to get something to drink and skittles for a 12-year-old friend.
      Guy says that day, Martin spent the day playing video games and watching TV with Chad Joseph, 12.
      Guy says they jury will see the 7-Eleven surveillance video.
      Guy says Martin walked home talking on the phone with a young friend in Miami.
      Guy says Zimmerman was riding around in his car with a Kel-Tec 9 mm pistol, ready to fire.
      Guy says Zimmerman didn’t see a young man walking home, but someone “real suspicious” and “up to no good.” Guy says the jury will hear the tape and how Martin is described.
      Guy says Zimmerman mentions there has been “a bunch of recent burglaries,” and the door chime of the car door can be heard.
      Guy says Zimmerman said under his breath the expletive phrase.
      Guy says at the end of the phone call the defendant made the decision that brought all of them there today.
      “Tell the officer to just call me and I’ll tell him where I am,” Guy quotes. Guy says Zimmerman wasn’t going back to his car, but after Martin.
      Guy says four minutes later the girl on the phone heard Martin say “what are you following me for?”
      Guy says Martin was face down with his hands clutching his chest.
      Guy says the ear buds from his phone were next to his head.
      Guy says Sgt. Romano will admit to not following SOPs with the police department. Guy says the officer put his lips on Martin’s lips to try to resuscitate Martin, but those efforts were too late.
      Martin’s parents are wiping their eyes.
      Guy says Zimmerman was able to answer and understand questions. He says Zimmerman had a bloody swollen nose and two lacerations on the back of his head.
      He says the defendant was asked if he wanted to go to the hospital.
      Guy says more than 30 photographs were taken of Zimmerman at the police station. He says the jury will also see video of him in the police station.
      Guy says police videotaped Zimmerman explaining walked happen, calling it a “tangled web of lies.”
      He says Zimmerman told police that Martin approached him, but that did not happen.
      Guy says phone records dispute that claim.
      Guy says Zimmerman told police that at one point while he was in his car, Martin circled his car.
      Guy says the non-emergency call proves that is physically impossible.
      Guy says Zimmerman told police the reason he got out of the car is because he needed an address.
      Guy says Zimmerman claimed Martin straddled Zimmerman and covered his mouth and nose. Guy says there was no blood on Martin’s hands.
      He says Martin’s cuffs were examined and no blood or DNA was found. He says Martin’s blood was on the defendant’s clothes.
      Guy says Zimmerman claimed that Martin told him he was “going to die tonight,” but no one else heard it.
      Guy says Zimmerman claimed he spread out Martin’s hands, but a witness took a photo showing Martin’s hands under his chest.
      Guys says there is irrefutable physical evidence.
      Guy says Zimmerman claimed Martin went for his gun, but Martin’s blood or DNA is not found on the gun.
      Guy says an expert will tell the jury all about the gun, and that there were eight rounds in the gun because there was a bullet ready to fire in the chamber.
      Guy says the gun has a longer trigger pull to ensure there are no accidental firings. He says the shot was a contact shot. He says the jury will see the burn marks.
      Guy says the jury will see evidence from the scene and the first thing will be how “remarkably dark it was.”
      He says the crime scene technician will go over the evidence there, mentioning Zimmerman’s flashlight, a bag used by the officer to keep air in Martin’s chest, the drink and skittles, the shell casing.
      Guy says the people there will testify, including residents.
      Guy says no one heard or saw the incident from beginning to the end. He says they all got “slices.”
      Guy says the witnesses also contradict what Zimmerman said.
      Guy says Zimmerman said he was knocked down, but a witness says she saw them upright.
      Guy says nobody heard Martin say the “die tonight” phrase.
      He says a witness thought he saw kids playing, but saw it was more serious and saw Martin’s hands on the defendant’s body and didn’t see or hear a fight.
      A physician’s assistant who examined the defendant the next morning, Guy says, will testify that Zimmerman needed a note so he could go back to work.
      He says she thought his now possible could be broken, but everything was aligned and longest injury on the back of his head was two centimeters, not needing sutures.
      Guy calls the 911 call “bone-chilling.”
      He says they will hear screaming in the background and asks the jurors to listen carefully.
      He says Trayvon Martin was silenced immediately and after the gunshot the screaming stops.
      Guy says they will learn more about the defendant, the person riding around in a car with a gun.

      10:08 a.m.
      He says Zimmerman was a criminal justice major and took classes in the law of self-defense.
      He says Zimmerman became a neighborhood watch coordinator.
      Guy says Zimmerman profiled Martin.
      Guy says the jury will learn about Zimmerman physically and adds that he weighed less.
      Guy says the jury will hear from the medical examiner and they learn how thin Martin was.
      Guy says Martin didn’t have bruised knuckles, but the only injury was small abrasion on his left ring finger. He says Martin was right-handed.
      Guy says the jury will see burn marks on Martin’s chest.
      Guy says the bullet went straight through Martin’s heart.
      Guy says Judge Nelson will read them the law that applies to everyone and they will know in their head, heart and stomach that Zimmerman “didn’t shoot Martin because he had to but because he wanted to.”

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        The cfnews updater did not note contact range on TM’s sweatshirt and intermediate chest wound.

    • Trained Observer says:

      YAHTC — Thanks for providing easy access to opener. Just now noticed that when Pops Z, Gladazz and SheLie depart courtroom, Pops Z does the chivalrous thing, stepping aside to make way for Glad, but turns his back to leave SheLie behind as they head out. Does that body language tell us anything 🙂 🙂 🙂

  26. gblock says:

    I’ve been watching as much of the trial as I can on HLN, and I felt rather discouraged and frustrated after watching the Friday testimony. It seemed like most or all of the witnesses that day would be neutral to slightly negative to the prosecution’s case. I was hoping that Lindsay’s (the PA’s) testimony would help the prosecution, but she was being overly cautious, agreeing that CAC’s injuries could have happened the way that he claimed. And it seemed like the prosecution wasn’t doing that much to fight that false ideas that were being planted.

    The commentators frustrated me even more. They seemed to be talking as if the trial all boiled down to whether Rachel J or Jon Good was more believable. And the reporters that covered this on a local (LA based) station on the 11 o’clock news talked the same way. I mean, at least 5 other residents have testified so far, and there possibly might be more to come. What are they – chopped liver? And one of the commentators especially (the blonde woman, don’t know her name) talked about how JG was so articulate and precise in the way that he expressed himself. So let’s consider, for instance Jane (the teacher). She was very articulate, and was also very definite about her testimony. What makes JG so much more believable and important than Jane?

    They also made a big deal about Rachel changing her story or having different versions of her story, But they ignored (or didn’t know) that JG has changed his story in more substantive ways. It is possible that his precise style of expressing himself is, in part, because he wants to avoid digging himself into a hole. Furthermore, West spent 5 hours across 2 days trying to confuse Rachel into saying something different, and she never really did. Hopefully, the jury will realize this. However, I’m not sure that they will know about the discrepancies in JG’s statements.

    BTW, one of my husband’s Facebook friends, who hadn’t been following the case that actively, noticed the double standard and wrote a short Facebook post about it.

    Well, some of the things that I’ve read on this book have helped me to see that there have been things that might help the prosecution later on. And, there is probably still plenty of testimony left to come, so hopefully it will eventually work out OK.

  27. Jun says:

    What did you think of the opening by the state?

    It was completely opposite of what i thought would happen

    I also thought they would try not to say the concrete head smash bullshit

    But at the same time, none of Fogen’s statements have been submitted to be weighed into evidence and

    My guess is the state is gonna use forensics to prove that Fogen staged his injuries

    • Jun says:

      That did not even happen because the state straight up said that GZ tried to justify his actions with lies, and they brought in the head smash claims in and said it’s a lie.

      • ay2z says:

        I don’t know if the lawyer from California who comments, knows the Florida law. But interesting that the Judge will give the jury the law, of course, but how will she handle the SYG defense, or the regular self-defense claim, and if the jury will consider self-defense as the defense if the defendant does not testify. Will hte law state that the defendant has the right toremain silent until he claims justifiable homicide, or does the jury affirmatively find that to be applied, if the state fails to prove it’s case to them?

        (ie: should the jury be considering self-defense affirmatively, as it could be forming opinions each day about that, especially yesterday, then have only to consider the state’s burden? The state does not have to prove that this defendant killed Trayvon, so that’s not the state’s burden.)

  28. ay2z says:

    Why did you try to maintain such close proximity to him?

    (surprise surprise, it ain’t about finding a street sign or address!)

  29. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Didn’t it say something in the report about unknown DNA on some of that evidence? If I remember correctly I think it did. Could that be Manolo’s DNA.

  30. jo says:

    foxnewsinsider.com/video/george-zimmerman-re-enactment-video-with-the-police-before-he-had-a-lawyer-and-right-after-the-shooting/

    my goodness, i thought greta was the best of a bad bunch at fox….could she really be this stupid. That re-enactment is GOLD for the prosecution.

  31. Jun says:

    Freddy just one thing

    Rachel aka w8 never agreed to any of West’s false statements

    Judge Nelson gave some leeway but even was a lil annoyed herself and told him many times “this is the last time you ask, and then can we move on” and then West does not move on

    I dont feel West broke her but I think the judge, jury, and public, may be annoyed at more hours of pointless cross on the same story again and again

    Trayvon was being followed and watched by a creepy stranger, who would not let him go, and kept stalking him (Rachel at one point even says Trayvon was stalked), the creepy ass cracker catches up and gets close, Trayvon still gets away, and then when Fogen gets too close for comfort, Trayvon asks “What are you following me for?” and then Fogen yells out “What are you doing around here” and then she heard Trayvon get pushed, hit or bumped, then she heard the grass, and then the phone shut off…

    When Bernie asked further if she can remember anything else, she heard Trayvon say “get off” and she confirms it’s Trayvon

    All you really need to do is combine her testimony, with w18, and the NEN call, and you get a picture

    • riisey007 says:

      Yes it was talked about on HLN with Jane Valez, the guy Michael Skolnik said something about him and other people being highly upset with how West treated Rachel. A lot of people noticed he was very nasty, I can see why his daughters are like they are. He has made sure as to let them know that they are better than ummm some people.

  32. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    How old is Robert Sr?

  33. jo says:

    Prosecution are doing well. Objecting all the time is just annoying and looks like you have something to hide and have a weak case….just let the defense dig their own grave. We don’t know which direction they are taking it but they are just setting it all up at the moment and will put the puzzle together..i was on a jury once and was frustrated because i didn’t think the questioning was getting anywhere, but it all fitted together at the end. Let the defense try to blind with “it’s possible” etc. Its all smoke and mirrors and most jury’s really do try to follow the judges instructions and do the right thing.

    some thoughts of mine at the moment:

    1. why does the fact that gz was squatting after trayvons killing bother me? it just does and i don’t know why. maybe because it shows he was calm and coherent enough to not want to get his pants wet by collapsing exhausted on the ground, or that it shows great balance and strength after nearly being beaten to death and having such massive blood loss (yes sarcasm), or that he had apparently hurt his back..

    2. did they establish what direction gz was staring/gazing after he shot trayvon and walked towards jane’s place, when she said he raised his hand to his head and bent over like he was trying to get a good look. Could he have been checking out the visibility from that point because jon said that light had been turned on after the shot, alerting gz to the fact someone there was home and may be able to see something?

    3. who would believe that having your head pounded into concrete would only result in clean cuts and not massive bruising around the area?

    4. BDLR asking jon if he tampered with trayvons body twice, did he move his arms or hands, is setting up for when they introduce gz’s statements of holding his arms out to stop him struggling.

    5. why was jon allowed to put gz’s phone in his pocket?

    6. another BDLR set up…to Jon “did you observe the defendant at anytime did you see the defendant look back at the body of Trayvon Martin”….”NO”…”the defendant appeared calm”…”YES”.

    Now rewind to the Hannity interview….he didn’t know he had shot or injured Trayvon, at no point did he realise Trayvon was hurt, not until back at the police station, he tried to restrain him after the shot….well apparently at some stage he just got up and walked away and made calls and never even looked back to see if the bad guy was going to jump up and attack him again, and was calm in doing so…..i suggest BDLR might bring up this little lie a little later on.

    reposted because it didn’t seem to work first time.

    • jo says:

      oh yes it did….its above….somethings wrong this post should be waaay down the page.

    • Xena says:

      @jo.

      1. why does the fact that gz was squatting after trayvons killing bother me?

      He wanted to make his phone call without others being able to clearly see he was on the phone. It would also reduce the sound waves preventing him from being heard.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      For #2, maybe he was looking for the flashlight he dropped.
      For #5, Ofr T Smith allowed it.

  34. Fred this thread is broken…. comments slot in wherever, not under the one you’re replying to. If you can’t fix it, perhaps you could start a new one? it’s getting very confusing.

    ~~ aussie using a different name to put this into moderation

  35. lady2soothe says:

    Day 5 Part 2
    Officer Ayala 11 yrs SPD

    Guy Questioning
    • Called to area for suspicious. 5 min travel. Call turned to “shots fired”
    • Officer Tim Smith 1st to scene.
    • Ayala saw Smith approx. by T
    • Smith had white man at gun point
    • No interaction with GZ focused male on ground. Went toward Trayvon.
    • Trayvon facedown hands underneath. Did not know if he was dead or not
    • Asked to see TM’s hands. TM did not respond verbally. No movement.
    • Sgt. Raimondo arrived.
    • Raimondo could not get pulse.
    • Ayala & Raimondo rolled Trayvon over. After rolling Trayvon over they observed pin or button on TM’s sweatshirt. When they moved the button they saw gunshot wound.
    • Ayala performed CPR
    • Raimondo asked for a plastic bag
    • Someone provided a plastic type grocery bag
    • Continue to perform CPR
    • No sign of life.
    • Ayala chest compressions
    • Raimondo mouth to mouth
    • EMT’s arrived
    • Trayvon pronounced dead
    • Had no contact w/ GZ after performing CPR on Trayvon
    • Crime Scene Tech & Investigators arrived while he was still on scene & took over
    • Ayala had no further involvement

    O’Mara Questioning
    • Ayala: Officer Smith was just arriving
    • Ayala was right behind Officer Smith getting there, about 2 min.
    • Protocol to take out weapon when shots fired
    • Ayala would say “Let me see your hands” Drop it (re: cell phone)
    • Ayala took out his weapon
    • Gun has a flashlight on it
    • Ayala was originally protecting Officer Smith
    • Ayala had weapon out, had his eyes on TN & GZ & as soon as GZ was secured he focused on TM
    • Focused on security for other officers
    • GZ was secured in vehicle by Officer Smith. GZ didn’t disobey
    • Did not notice blood on GZ
    • Ayala attempted to deal w/ Trayvon
    • Did not see GZ after he was secured

    Guy redirect: None

  36. jo says:

    Prosecution are doing well. Objecting all the time is just annoying and looks like you have something to hide and have a weak case….just let the defense dig their own grave. We don’t know which direction they are taking it but they are just setting it all up at the moment and will put the puzzle together..i was on a jury once and was frustrated because i didn’t think the questioning was getting anywhere, but it all fitted together at the end. Let the defense try to blind with “it’s possible” etc. Its all smoke and mirrors and most jury’s really do try to follow the judges instructions and do the right thing.

    some thoughts of mine at the moment:

    1. why does the fact that gz was squatting after trayvons killing bother me? it just does and i don’t know why. maybe because it shows he was calm and coherent enough to not want to get his pants wet by collapsing exhausted on the ground, or that it shows great balance and strength after nearly being beaten to death and having such massive blood loss (yes sarcasm), or that he had apparently hurt his back..

    2. did they establish what direction gz was staring/gazing after he shot trayvon and walked towards jane’s place, when she said he raised his hand to his head and bent over like he was trying to get a good look. Could he have been checking out the visibility from that point because jon said that light had been turned on after the shot, alerting gz to the fact someone there was home and may be able to see something?

    3. who would believe that having your head pounded into concrete would only result in clean cuts and not massive bruising around the area?

    4. BDLR asking jon if he tampered with trayvons body twice, did he move his arms or hands, is setting up for when they introduce gz’s statements of holding his arms out to stop him struggling.

    5. why was jon allowed to put gz’s phone in his pocket?

    6. another BDLR set up…to Jon “did you observe the defendant at anytime did you see the defendant look back at the body of Trayvon Martin”….”NO”…”the defendant appeared calm”…”YES”.

    Now rewind to the Hannity interview….he didn’t know he had shot or injured Trayvon, at no point did he realise Trayvon was hurt, not until back at the police station, he tried to restrain him after the shot….well apparently at some stage he just got up and walked away and made calls and never even looked back to see if the bad guy was going to jump up and attack him again, and was calm in doing so…..i suggest BDLR might bring up this little lie a little later on.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @jo — i like your take on the situation thus far.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      Jo, when he asked Jon if GZ ever look at Trayvon’s body that caught my attention too because in court when they’re showing the picture of Trayvon’s corpse, GZ never looks at them. He closes his eyes or stares straight ahead.

    • manberk says:

      The question I have is this; it was clearly pointed thru Officer Smiths testimony that the officers first obligation is to their own safety. Which is why they pointed their weapons on both GZ and TM shouting instructions. So its counter intuitive that with shots fired they wouldnt also do the same when coming up on Joe Manolo who was also there. Joe also had something in his hands, a phone and a flashlight that may have been anything. Why didnt the officer(s) think Joe posed any threat? Makes no sense.

      • crazy1946 says:

        manberk, did you not realize that Tim Smith violated the official policy of the SPD and “DID NOT” come up on the scene with his weapon in his hand? Forget the rest of the question, because the other officers coming on the scene were after Tim Smith had drawn his weapon (but as you pointed out not at Manolo but at the Fogdoit only). What did Tim Smith already know when he got there? Why was no resident out in the street to direct the SPD to the scene of the crime? Wasn’t Manolo’s garage door open with light on? Too many questions and too few answers for the defense and also from the SPD…

      • Dave says:

        That’s what I’ve been wondering too. Everyone on the scene should have been treated as a suspect.

        • riisey007 says:

          There is something very sinister going on here. Police are very careful not to put themselves in a dangerous situation. Just the thought of 911 calls saying shots fired should have brought them all out with guns a blazing I know this because me and a friend of mine pulled up to the waffle house several years ago late one night and some people had gotten into a fight, someone shot off a gun so it scared us and we decided not to get out and actually leave but before we could the police arrived and demanded all of us to place our hands in the air. We were scared to death. They didn’t know what or who did what so they had to get to the bottom of it. The entire scene makes no sense. The only way they did not come with guns blazing is due to them knowing Zimmerman shot someone somehow. So did Zimmerman call Smith or what?

        • ay2z says:

          went right over their heads…. neeeoooowww!!

          (and who called Smith to tell him where to park, because it wasn’t in front of 2821 where he stopped. Another call, update or private citizen?)

      • Aunt Bea says:

        No, man, it does not.
        Nobody gave a shit about this guy just hangin’ around, well, until some “rookie” was given the “logbook” duties…..

      • jo says:

        yes true. i’ve seen episodes of ‘cops’ where they pull out guns and are very loud yelling instructions just for traffic violations. I guess because in a country full of guns you don’t know who could be armed let alone in a known shooting….was gz even frisked?

  37. Romaine says:

    http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/documents-2/court-documents/discovery-documents-part-2-284-pages-7122012/

    check out pg 22 for ofc tim smith statement and the defendants gun, if you get not available click the alternate link

  38. whonoze says:

    I have a new post up on the whonoze blog detailing why I think the Wagner photo of GZ’s bloody and “broken” nose has been manipulated:

    http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2013/06/29/wagner1/

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Great job, whonoze.

      You always do such great work and have dedicated long hours!

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      I cosign with you. Those are not Zimmerman’s eyes, nor his eyebrows. Zimmerman’s real eyebrows are wider all the way across. His eyes are smaller and beady like. The eyes in the picture are wider. Also, his face is not heart shaped.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        And that is not the shape of his mouth either. Did the medical report say anything about a swollen mouth?

    • dianetrotter says:

      I always read the comments. There are some really good comments there. I had to respond to some idiot.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thank you, Whonoze. The thing that bothers me most about this photo is the strange zit-like protrusion just under the little pinprick cut that had disappeared a few hours later. This is the area that looks most manipulated to me, from my experience with playing around and altering faces in Photoshop (and watching many teenagers do this in art classes as a sub teacher).

      Some of the other anomalies might be due to camera angle and lighting, and the fact that Fogen’s nose may have been truly temporarily flattened a bit by a blow or running into something. But that strange protusion should still be identifiable later.

      I’ve taken a sucker punch that landed square in the upper nose/forehead had WAY more bruising around both eyes and a small closed fracture. Even when his PA reported black eyes the following day, Fogen’s were extremely faint by the time he shows up at SPD. I had both eyes so blackened that people gasped when they saw me and these took over a week to disappear, so I really, really have a problem with his story of being sucker-punched. He’d look much worse if that were the case – either that, or it wasn’t really much of a sucker punch, the type you’d get if you jumped on someone first and they made a clumsy attempt to deter you. Or as many here theorize, he ran into the tree or dog station, or received these facial injuries rolling around on the ground, from the recoil of the keltek. If Trayvon was the super thug he’s made out to be at the Treestump, Fogen would look far worse. I think Fogen’s face illustrates a good argument for Travyon having tried to defend himself from an idiot with a gun.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Gosh, I am so sick of this scheme team! I think Lindzee may have found the picture silly upon seeing it too. I just hope that the medical professional will sum up that fake picture. Since when does a nose bleed reach the tip of your nose yet not come from inside the nostrils!

      I am so sick of seeing that picture being held by MOM which is all he has. So hopefully soon that medical expert will shred that phony picture and leave the jury to really think about the number of times MOM held it up trying to deceive them.

      I have a headache now! Ugh

  39. Woow! says:

    My oldest son asked me one day what do he do if a cop stops him and start to beat him for no reason. He asked if he could defend yourself from a cop.

    This is how young black me feel….they view the police as a large gang with the legal authority to do what they want.

    The police forces across the country are employing too many guys that have left the military with PTSD, were military rejects and other mental disabilities (such as CAC) and joining police forces. This people are a danger to society.

    People can talk about New Orleans and the corruption all day but that is a perfect example of the question my son asked. Those guys in the projects got tired of the cops harassing them for no reason that they started to shot at them, catch them and beat them….etc. I’m not saying its right but think about it. — a caged animal will only let you abuse it for so long before it starts to fight back.

    • Tzar says:

      And now zidiots would like that authority transfered to them and their non-police cohorts

    • Tzar says:

      Those guys in the projects got tired of the cops harassing them for no reason that they started to shot at them, catch them and beat them….etc. I’m not saying its right but think about it. — a caged animal will only let you abuse it for so long before it starts to fight back.

      they basicaly decided they had nothing to lose
      reminds me of this poem

      If We Must Die

      by Claude McKay

      If we must die—let it not be like hogs
      Hunted and penned in an inglorious spot,
      While round us bark the mad and hungry dogs,
      Making their mock at our accursed lot.
      If we must die—oh, let us nobly die,
      So that our precious blood may not be shed
      In vain; then even the monsters we defy
      Shall be constrained to honor us though dead!
      Oh, Kinsmen! We must meet the common foe;
      Though far outnumbered, let us show us brave,
      And for their thousand blows deal one deathblow!
      What though before us lies the open grave?
      Like men we’ll face the murderous, cowardly pack,
      Pressed to the wall, dying, but fighting back

      • cielo62 says:

        Tzar- beautiful poem! It’s terrible to think that in America of 2013 we still need to so this. Luckily we are a large band nowadays. We will not go down easily nor quietly.

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

    • pat deadder says:

      whining white people complaining about Trayvon saying creepy ass cracker.I’m an old white woman and I think he hit the nail on the head.It’s not the same as the N word.I’d like to know how we would act if we had been oppressed and treated the way black people have been for generations.God so they got their whittle feelings hurt.Trayvon was scared.

      • GZ is a CAC…cracker is not pajorative,it is colloquiol here in Fl. i am native floridian

        • KA says:

          It is a derivative of a term made famous my Chris Rock. My husband (who is big really, really Norwegian type white) calls me in jest a Cracker Ass Cracker. It is a catch phrase from a famous Chris Rock bit.

          Trayvon surely didn’t invent that.

          I do have to say one of the best parts of Rachel’s testimony is when West asked her about WHAT that word means and she thinks about it…..and says “um…I think something like…you know …pervert”

          He changed his direction immediately.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          DD has explained why CAC is not a racial pejorative, these kids have watched tv and they’ve seen CSI and other programs where they go after dangerous pedophiles. CAC became their way of describing pedophiles, nothing more! I too have seen those tv programs and I don’t remember any of the pedo’s being black, so it’s hardly a wonder then that they would settle on CAC to describe pedos. TV would also be where they learned that pedo’s are dangerous.

          Hardly a wonder then, why Trayvon would not want to be seen entering the house, while this dude was still out there following him. He had Chad’s safety to think about.

      • parrot says:

        I agree. I have friends who with self-deprecating humor, call themselves “crackers.” Everybody listening just bursts out laughing in a good-natured way. Like saying “hillbilly.”

      • Nellie Nell says:

        And then Trayvon called him a nigga….. Are they crying about that too. Would not be so sad if GZ were not a minority himself. If he’d killed a white kid, they would have demanded justice in an instance.

        He used Hispanic on his applications for student loans or whenever he thought it would benefit him. For the Dr visit he put his race as white and whenever else he thought it would benefit him.

        He is such a manipulator.

  40. Jun says:

    http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/florida—the-courts-consideration-of-a-motion-to-dismiss—generally

    I keep hearing Zimmernuts claim Omara will motion to dismiss and according to this it seems, a motion to dismiss is not available for affirmative defense, but I am not a lawyer

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’m not a lawyer or involved in law, but it’s my understanding that in high-stakes cases that this motion is often used and just as often denied.

    • groans says:

      @ Jun: That article is talking about CIVIL cases, not criminal cases.

      Do not rely on that article for anything in this case! The discussion (regarding motions to dismiss; motions for judgment on the pleadings; and, motions for summary judgment) has no applicability to criminal cases … at all. Procedural matters, as well as their underlying concepts, differ enormously between civil and criminal cases.

      Quick Tip: Articles that discuss criminal law will mostly (but not necessarily solely) cite cases that have a state or federal government as one of the parties – i.e., “State” (in Florida and most states); “People” (in a few, very cool states); or “United States” (in federal cases).

      CAVEAT: States and the U.S. can be parties in civil cases, too. But in civil cases, a government party is usually a department or agency of government, rather than simply “State of Florida.” For example: Smith v. Florida Department of Health, or vice versa.

      Hope that helps.

      (Anyway, the article might become informative if you follow the civil cases – e.g., the killer’s NBC defamation suit and the anticipated parents’ wrongful death suit. Those sorts of pre-trial motions and hearings are quite common in civil cases.)

  41. crazy1946 says:

    I just got off the phone with a friend, who does not call often, but because I have her in my address book, I knew who it was before I answered the phone. The reason I just made that comment, was that after hanging up the phone, it dawned on me, the SPD and the FDLE had the Fogdoits cell phone, what I am now curious about is how many of the witnesses that are being called are in his address book (on his cell phone)? I wonder how many of the witnesses that have stated that they did not know the Fogdoit were (are) in his address book? Could that be why the state has asked some of them about any prior contact with the Fogdoit? I have been told that “an old mind full of useless trivia would be a good thing to not have”! Oh well, too late now! I’m going to shut this thing off now and try to get some of the work done that has been on hold this week while the trial was going on! Each and every one of y’all have a great evening, and a wonderful and peaceful day tomorrow….

    • Sophia33 says:

      Very good questions!

      • crazy1946 says:

        I almost feel sorry for Jeremy, his wife has told a series of mis-truths while on the stand, now he is caught between a very controlling wife (of one year) and a court of law that requires him to be truthful! Wonder which one he will choose? I would bet the tension in that house is rather high right now…..

  42. fauxmccoy says:

    amusing trial replay in my mind while showering/washing hair

    mr don looking incredulous at ms rachel

    ‘you mean you were fixing your hair in the bathroom and you didn’t have the water running?’

    duuuuuuuude, i may be white, but i know that water would be the last thing she would be putting on her hair.

    • blushedbrown says:

      Correct!

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        And this black woman says amen, not unless, she was washing her hair. She was only combing it.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @granny

          i believe rachel mentioned her hot iron. she obviously straightens her hair.

          as a side note, my hair came back completely different after i had chemo and lost it all at age 30. it is not kinky curly, but very wavy, completely different head of hair than the straight white girl hair i always had. i had to learn completely different ways of treating it. (i.e. — less washing, more hair oil and if i want it straight, a piping hot flat iron. water is the last thing i want on my own hair, i’d rather use coconut oil.)

          ole white boy lawyer-manz is probably used to seeing his wife in her one pocket housecoat with cold cream on her face and just washed hair in rollers.

        • blushedbrown says:

          @Granny

          Not to mention he couldn’t understand how could she be talking on the phone and doing her hair. Ever hear of Bluetooth or speaker phone Mr. West? Geez come to the 21st century.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        That means that she was flat ironing or using a pressing comb. It depends. If she has a relaxer on her hair, she is using flat iron. If her hair is natural, she is using a pressing comb, which could be electric or the kind you use on stove.

        • blushedbrown says:

          Hot comb, is real old school. I bet she used a flat iron. Her hair was pretty. Her makeup expertly put on. She looked great.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @BlushedBrown!

        Blushed! So GLAD to see you here. MISSED YOU!

        Expect you’ve been busy but want to thank you for your past support – intelligent, visionary, on point!

        Please stick around and continue to post.
        Love reading your views!

        • blushedbrown says:

          @PiranhaMom

          Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I have returned to work and have been extremely busy.

          I will stick around and post as much as I can.

          Thanks again for the warm welcome back!

      • parrot says:

        It’s good to see your fonts. I missed you and wondered where you were.

        • blushedbrown says:

          @Parrot
          I’ve missed you too!
          Working like a dog…..
          I will make post as much as I can.
          Thanks for the warm welcome back.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Glad to see you back, BB.

    • KA says:

      Or the iron heating up….don’t really want those around water either…

  43. Jun says:

    I am not too worried about Fogen’s alleged injuries

    The jury saw Trayvon’s hands close up, at the crime scene, and they themselves saw nothing to indicate he was involved in any type of attack

    The jury sees that Fogen instigated and incited the unnecessary turn of events that occurred by profiling, stalking, following, pursuing, and confronting Trayvon while it was dark at night

    The jury sees that Trayvon is a teenager

    The jury sees that Trayvon only had Skittles and Ice tea

    The jury sees that Fogen was the one armed, aggressive, hostile, with flashlights, so considering that, he was the one with prepared tools to initiate and search for trouble

    The jury sees that Fogen lied about what happened and may have staged his injuries and the crime scene… I do not feel the jury is stupid enough to believe that less than 1 inch scratches that self healed and the blood already dried within minutes is consistent with a head to concrete smash claim

    The jury hears that Trayvon perhaps tried to defend himself by wrestling Fogen off him, and no on ever claimed any blows were thrown or any head to concrete smashes occurred

    The jury sees that Guy was truthful to them in opening, and after hearing witnesses, the jury notices that West lied to them regarding witness testimonies and all he does is badger and try to bully witnesses to change their testimony, such as w18 Jean Sardyka, and w8 Rachel

    The jury heard w18 testify that she heard Fogen confronting Trayvon angrily and that she could easily identify the screams to be that of a young boy, which Omara tried to prevent from being testified and that she saw Fogen pin Trayvon down before shooting him and she felt that what she saw, was not even a threat enough to warrant a shooting

    The jury hears that w6 never testified to the things West & Omara claims he testified to, and w6 never saw any raining of blows or concrete head smashes, and he only saw at most about 10 seconds, but it could be 3 seconds, and he never said that it was Fogen screaming, just that he could be

    The jury heard w6 testify a story that does not make sense and is in direct contradiction to Selma, W18, Manalo’s wife and on scene evidence, when the jury sits and compares

    The jury heard that the witnesses on scene, considered Fogen to be a complete stranger to them all

    The jury heard Manalo call the scene a crime scene and he did not consider Neighborhood Watch that important

    The jury heard W18 say that it was a nice neighborhood and things like this do not happen

    Look, even if Trayvon did hit Fogen at all, he was perfectly justified to do so, because he is a minor who is also allowed to stand his ground, and Fogen provoked the situation, and Trayvon never used overtly deadly force, and Fogen never tried to retreat like he is supposed to if he is the aggressor

    Also, the state has a good case and argument that Fogen was committing and about to commit aggravated stalking, which is a forcible felony, which also means, his self defense claim is dissolved

    West admitted to the jury that Fogen was following in his car and on foot, however he tried to twist the last minute details and Rachel was not biting or playing along with his lies

  44. ZCBest says:

    Just thought I would again mention that August 2011 is when Fogen joined the MMA gym and also when he said the burglary happened in his neighborhood? Gearing up for a fight against those fucking punks! BLDR and team got this covered folks. Fogen wrote that statement in his written statement as part of the very first sentence…State of Mind!

    Fogen will be convicted!

  45. lady2soothe says:

    Zimmerman Trial – Day 5 – Part 2
    Witness # Joe Monolo wife testified the other day. Lives at the corner townhouse on east side of T. Has 6 yr old daughter.

    BLDR Questioning
    • He came thru the garage & around the side of his house around to the T. 10-20 seconds
    • GZ was already at the T
    • GZ was squatting
    • GZ was holding his cell phone w/ his left hand to his left ear
    • Manolo noticed blood. Nostrils, both side of lips back of head
    • Manolo took photos on cell phone with his own flashlight back of head & Trayvon face down with his hands underneath & lg flashlights
    • Manolo’s porch ight was off when shooting occurred but turned it on afterward
    • Manolo never left the sidewalk
    • Manolo didn’t notice the little flashlight & keychain by the T
    • Manolo did not see a gun
    • Manolo said GZ look like he was in a fight
    • GZ spoke to him & answered questions
    • Manolo: I asked what caliber he used: GZ said 9mm
    • Office arrived.
    • GZ tossed cell on the ground. GZ asked Manolo to call his wife. Manoklo put the cell in GZ left side pocket. Manolo didn’t know the number & he called SZ. He had a connection with her right away. GZ cut him off & he cut him off “Just tell her I shot someone” GZ seemed “like I was talking too long to say what I had to say”
    • Officer Snith asked if he had a gun. GZ put his right arm up & said he had it “here”
    • Manolo saw gun. Officer put gun in his own utility belt
    • Manolo. First officer turned Trayvon over. Officer was performing CPR. Officer asked for a bag to perform compression. Manolo went back thru garage & his wife handed him a plastic Wal-mart bag.
    • Manolo never saw any movement from TM
    • Manolo claims he’d never met GZ or TM
    • GZ was NOT in shock, he was coherent and responding. He was not acting like anything different. GZ was acting like a normal person.
    • GZ did not look back at Trayvon
    • GZ was calm.

    West Questioning (almost all leading questions)
    • Manolo’s wife told him 2 guys fighting outside .He told her to mind her own business
    • Manolo and wife both heard shot
    • Manolo claims he was carefully walking w/ flashlight from the living room to the garage around the corner & out to the T
    • GZ caught his attention 1st. Breathing hard, staggering, looked like he got his butt beat. Manolo wasn’t afraid of GZ
    • Manolo said “Do I need to call the police” GZ “No, I already called him” Manolo assumed he was on the phone w/ the police. GZ had the phone to his ear but wasn’t talking.
    • GZ “Am I bleeding” His nose was bleeding. GA was squatting down.
    • GZ was bleeding from the back of his head. Manolo took that opportunity to take a pic of the back of GZ’s head.
    • Manolo took it upon himself to take the pic
    • Manolo asked what happen, GZ said “This guy was beating me up, I was defending myself and I shot him”
    • Officer Tim Smith arrived. He didn’t remember he had a flashlight. It was really really dark out there.
    • Office Smith said “Who shot him” GZ said “I did” Smith asked GZ if he had a gun. GZ “Yes” GZ complied by raising his right arm exposing firearm in holster on R side
    • Officer Smith “I’m going to handcuff you for officer safety”
    • GZ complied fully & made himself available to be handcuffed behind his back.
    • GZ wanted Joe to call SZ. Joe called SZ from his own phone. “Just tell her I shot someone”
    • Manolo felt GZ was being abrupt.
    • Manolo felt GZ should be numb. GZ wasn’t either hyper or numb. Rather than not being animated, he was just flat
    • Manolo didn’t attend NW Program
    • Sign at TLR says NW call 911. He feels people work together & reminds people to call 911
    • Manolo took 2 photos of TM. Legs kind of spread the 2nd of the lg. flashlight
    • BLLDR was trying to help West find the correct evidence photo 77 on the computer and West got snotty with him
    • Standing on the sidewalk closer to the T intersection & slightly down the sidewalk going south

    BLDR Re-direct
    • West got snotty w/ BLDR again regarding photo evidence 77 being left on computer
    • Demeanor: Manolo felt GZ was compliant, calm but staggering a little
    • Manolo had no trouble understand him
    • Manolo asked GZ what caliber of gun. GZ “9mm”
    • Manolo “I came out after. I did not see the gunshot”

  46. ZCBest says:

    Listening to Fogen’s first statement after he murdered Trayvon. Funny, he says he knows everyone in his community. Kids and Adults. So how many neighbors have said they didn’t know him.

    Also, I know during one interview he says he is not good with names, but he is rattling off names in this first interview! Laughable!

    • dianetrotter says:

      Good point. It looks like he knows nobody. Also, who participated in NW other than him and Taafe.

    • gblock says:

      Based on testimony, it sounds like he was supposed to recruit block captains (or follow up with people who had volunteered to be block captains) and never did.

    • Sophia33 says:

      And how many of the witnesses have been on the stand who lived there and said they didn’t know him? Another Zimmerman lie.

  47. ZCBest says:

    Good evening family!

    I like this piece so I thought I would share. How about that first sentence!
    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/trayvon-martin-trial-quote-police-interview?src=soc_fcbks

  48. ay2z says:

    Still, why have we no documentation of where fogen’s Honda Ridgeline was located when police first arrived?

    As fogen said? Or elsewhere before anyone moved it, that is?

    By 5:30 PM the next day, the Honda Ridgeline is parked facing north on the east side of RVC across from the ‘z’s place but a bit farther north closer to Long Oak Way.

  49. ay2z says:

    My comment got lost somewhere. Again, 2821 RVC is the residence of the young boy who was walking his dog, and dog got away (frightened by the activities?) and the sister who called 911.

  50. ay2z says:

    2821 is the residence of the young boy and his dog with the sister who called 911 that night.

    Why would Smith not go to 2821? Why did he stop where he did? Know the area?

  51. Follow….190th 😦

  52. whonoze says:

    Comments are being inserted in the thread seemingly at random…

  53. whonoze says:

    I have a new post up on the whonoze blog detailing why I think the Wagner photo of GZ’s bloody and “broken” nose has been manipulated:

    http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2013/06/29/wagner1/

    And another post speculating about why it may have been altered, and what will happen with it at trial:

    http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2013/06/29/wagner2/

    • SearchingMind says:

      Whonozw, could you get your analysis to the prosecutors (on your own)? What kind of help – if any – would you need to do that?

  54. colin black says:

    Cant respond to comments there all over shop?

  55. colin black says:

    LLMPapa says:

    June 29, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    The point of the video is this, Officer Smith’s report of 2/27/2012 says he parked at 2821 RVC. His testimony says that’s the address he was given by dispatch. That address is the next to last unit on the SOUTH end of that building.

    However, his testimony was, as shown, that he parked in front of the first or second unit on the NORTH end of the building and walked around the north end to the shooting scene.

    It caught my eye because of the time the State seemed to take in establishing where he says he parked his squad car. I don’t know what, if anything it means, but I don’t remember any other Officer or technician being asked anything about where they parked.
    @
    The tragic point is this if the officer had exited his car at the first stop.

    Run round by Brandi Greens house with his gun drawn .

    He would have been in time to stop Trayvon MURDER POSSABLY,

    In stead he chose to drive to furthest away T junction an exit from wher foggaggges verion an location of the fight was..

    So had to run down ?trot? walk?

    Reach the doggy station at the Wrong T an then make his way all the way on foot to were Trayvon now lay dieing all that etra driving off in wrong direction then travel ing on foot had to use up at least A Minute an that’s when TRAYVON DIED IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF YOUR VT LMPAPPA

    Wasssup wive theesea comenrts

    thegre geegoging egganeggy weegre theggy feegguukig weegont to go. Xscuse mine egg

  56. colin black says:

    LLMPapa says:

    June 29, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    The point of the video is this, Officer Smith’s report of 2/27/2012 says he parked at 2821 RVC. His testimony says that’s the address he was given by dispatch. That address is the next to last unit on the SOUTH end of that building.

    However, his testimony was, as shown, that he parked in front of the first or second unit on the NORTH end of the building and walked around the north end to the shooting scene.

    It caught my eye because of the time the State seemed to take in establishing where he says he parked his squad car. I don’t know what, if anything it means, but I don’t remember any other Officer or technician being asked anything about where they parked.
    @
    The tragic point is this if the officer had exited his car at the first stop.

    Run round by Brandi Greens house with his gun drawn .

    He would have been in time to stop Trayvon MURDER POSSABLY,

    In stead he chose to drive to furthest away T junction an exit from wher foggaggges verion an location of the fight was..

    So had to run down ?trot? walk?

    Reach the doggy station at the Wrong T an then make his way all the way on foot to were Trayvon now lay dieing all that etra driving off in wrong direction then travel ing on foot had to use up at least A Minute an that’s when TRAYVON DIED IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF YOUR VT LMPAPPA.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Ofc Smith entered the complex at 7:17:11. GZ shot Trayvon at 7:16:56. Smith couldn’t have stopped it. GZ knew the police would be there any moment. If Trayvon would’ve been alive when Smith arrived, GZ would’ve been found guilty of aggrevated assault of a minor. I don’t think it is a coincidence that GZ murdered Trayvon just before the police arrived.

  57. bettykath says:

    he should NOT have had

  58. Woow! says:

    Question – I have been reading comments from previous posts and I have some questions that I do not know the answer to.

    1. Fogen couldn’t hold a job?
    2. Shelly didn’t work?
    3. Behind on rent but not evicted?
    4. How were those two losers taking care of themselves?
    5. Sundance cracker posted the personal info of CAC cousin that accused him and the family of being racist and a rapist? Did anyone go after Sundance for doing that and if not is it b/c they know MOM could have or did provide him with her name?
    6. Residents of RTL complained to SPD about CAC? Was anything ever done?

    • riisey007 says:

      Does being thieves count as a job? it sure has crossed my mind how they seem to always be the ones to see crime being committed absent of the construction workers who saw a robbery tking place. When Taafe home was being burglarized and Zimmerman happen to see it going down but when the police got there the thief was gone, oh and Taafe left the window open for some strange reason. The woman who’s door was kicked in by a would be burglar but she never saw the thief but yet Shellie witnessed the thief running from her yard!! hummm.!! It all seems like a set up to me. Move in and get the neighbors all scred, make yourself neighborhood watchman so you can creep around flashing lights all in peoples windows and no one would be the wiser. It seems perfect to me.

  59. colin black says:

    colin black says:
    June 29, 2013 at 7:08 pm
    ay2z says:
    June 29, 2013 at 4:28 pm
    He should get on the stand and bring it!!

    Let the jury speculate that it’s audible in the 911 call and that it was spoken by one or another.

    Who wanted to stop whom from getting away? Who would have used that threat in anger?

    GZ is very good, he handles big time media like on Hannity, he can handle this and sell his story when he is in control. Now if the state were to bring in another lawyer, a strong and excellent black woman trial lawyer, he might lose it facing down a strong woman. He’d fold.

    Reply
    @

    No he is not good Hanratty was scripted rehearsed
    He an M O MReveiwed each question before hand an yet he still messed up.

    Wouldnt do anything different

    ALL IN GODS PLAN.

    Never heard of S Y G Smirk…

    You think he done well?

    He w2as abysmall on a edited to make him look good pre planned event.

    If he gets in the box his head will start spinning like linda blair from the EXORSIST.

    The qeastions will be comeing in every direction so fast .
    He will barley have time to whiper I dont recall SIR. before the next one.

    AND IF WEST THOUGH Rachel was heard to hear whilsy giveing evidence .

    If there client has the BALLS to take the box an tell uss all.

    Wich he hasnt so wont.

    Then he will need to be supplied with a magaphone to hear him.

    He will get slaughtered before our eyes just as Trayvon was before his eyes by his handgun an depraved couldnt give a fuck attatude.

  60. colin black says:

    ay2z says:
    June 29, 2013 at 4:28 pm
    He should get on the stand and bring it!!

    Let the jury speculate that it’s audible in the 911 call and that it was spoken by one or another.

    Who wanted to stop whom from getting away? Who would have used that threat in anger?

    GZ is very good, he handles big time media like on Hannity, he can handle this and sell his story when he is in control. Now if the state were to bring in another lawyer, a strong and excellent black woman trial lawyer, he might lose it facing down a strong woman. He’d fold.

    Reply
    @

    No he is not good Hanratty was scripted rehearsed
    He an M O MReveiwed each question before hand an yet he still messed up.

    Wouldnt do anything different

    ALL IN GODS PLAN.

    Never heard of S Y G Smirk…

    You think he done well?

    He w2as abysmall on a edited to make him look good pre planned event.

    If he gets in the box his head will start spinning like linda blair from the EXORSIST.

    The qeastions will be comeing in every direction so fast .
    He will barley have time to whiper I dont recall SIR. before the next one.

    AND IF WEST THOUGH Rachel was heard to hear whilsy giveing evidence .

    If there client has the BALLS to take the box an tell uss all.

    Wich he hasnt so wont.

    Then he will need to be supplied with a magaphone to hear him.

    He will get slaughtered before our eyes just as Trayvon was before his eyes by his handgun an depraved couldnt give a fuck attatude.

    • ay2z says:

      Colin, yep, was a big snark in my Hannity comments, maybe he’ll believe it and be encouraged to stand up for himself, unlike what he did when he saw a young man walking and did not take one of at least two opportunities to tell Trayvon he was a concerned neighbor and to ask if he was lost or whether he was visiting because he ddn’t recognize him. Anything reasonable to allay fears of a child being followed by a man with a haved head watching him.

      (what that a single sentence? sorry!)

  61. Woow! says:

    There was a case in Pleasantville, NJ last year where a 19 yr old went missing. Her body was found in the Shulkeyl?sp river on the PA side.

    I bring this case up b/c after law enforcement had their suspects, the FBI was able to pinpoint what those people did by their cell phones. The FBI tracked there whereabouts by the cell towers down to a T. They were able to tell the killers where there were and at what time.

    BDLR has CAC and TM phone records. Although neither did not leave from the area, if either had a smart phone, LE can tell you exactly where they were because there is built in GPS in smart phone and some of the other types (not only does the Feds track us but so does different phone apps in real time).

    There is a lot more evidence for BDLR to present and I can’t wait for the cell phone records, Taaffe, RobSr., Serino, homeowners/rents that complained about CAC, and FBI agent listed on the state’s witness list.

  62. Woow! says:

    How do you post a video and a picture to this site?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      woow,

      one at a time

      go to the page the video is on and copy the http and then paste it here. It will appear as a video here.

      for a picture….copy the url of the picture and paste it here.

  63. disappointed says:

    Don’t know if you all read this I thought it to be interesting though.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/foghorn/the-truth-about-george-zimmermans-kel-tec-pf-9/

    Trying to find pictures of noses that have been hit by recoil. bb

    • Operacarla says:

      I was upthread with GrannyStandingforTruth and bettykath. I went looking for Keltek photos. The sight catches my eye. It seems that it could have made the two small pricks on CACa’s nose.

      A photo of a Keltek9:

      CACa’s nose:

  64. colin black says:

    colin black says:

    June 29, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Hinster for ever relax calm down an take a chill pill

    Ecossie possie speaking.

    This case is in the bag done seale delivered the only possible way of aquital 6 stealth treepers.

    Or tied jurey couple of stealt.

    If its a fair an Impartial its a done deal.

    The State has the LUXURY OF LEAVEING ITS VERY STRONGEST EVIDENCE

    Untill rebuttal a rare luxury ….

    They will let them huff puff an furflufle
    West will drone on for hours about minutie that’s irrelevant not only to this case .
    But any unrelated to anything.

    Foggagge has to put his big boi diepers on an TAKE THE STAND
    An be brave an explain what happened .

    So as bravery is involved it WONT HAPPEN.
    No matter if B Shysster say he just HAS to he is a COWARD SO WONT.

    So even if the State had nothing it could say state rest sit down

    An win a conviction for first never mind second degree.,,

    But know the rebuttal from the defence is where all the good strong blowing away a straw house with an fan you would use in an air tunnel streamline test

    Rebuttal will be the cou de gra.

    Foggagge is fogged

    And just for afters a devastating closeing argument that will close the lid on foggagges coffin like thos stucco construction erecters HILTY NAL GUNS WILL HAVE HIM SEALED ENTOMBED IN the catacooms of DOOM.
    On the bright sides I hear SCELATOR likes to frequent such venues for R an R….

  65. disappointed says:

    Did anyone testify about his keys at the T? Were they there when Jon showed up? Did he toss them out when police arrive? Did Off. Smith throw them there? Inquiring minds want to know. If a Police officer received a call from fogen directly after the shooting, would he still be employed? If you answer yes to that question I will never visit Sanford again.

    • looneydoone says:

      disappointed,
      Smith’s wearing a stripe on his uniform sleeves these days…appears he’s been promoted to Sgt.

      Ayala and Serino, on the other hand have been demoted

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Promoted, demoted… by whom? Who’s boss there?

      • KA says:

        I have to say, there are parts of Smith’s testimony that are just damning to the defense…like…NO PHYSICAL DISCOMFORT SHOWN with GZ in the interview room not 30 minutes after the murder. None. Smith observed him for 30 – 40 minutes with NO SIGN of physical ailments in that time.

        That strikes me as a strong statement of the severity of injuries.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I agree that he gave good testimony as to GZ condition.

          I still do not believe GZ had grass on the back of his jacket. There was not one piece of grass on his jacket in the photos at the station while the toes of his shoes had plenty. For all the grass so suddenly disappear from the car ride to the police station is incredible. GZ would have wanted the grass to remain on his clothing to match his story of being on his back, yet there was none.

          Someone mentioned how shaky Smith was during his testimony. I believe he is nervous for that lie. There is just something about him that makes me not trust him. He is on the team that Dr the photos while those that spoke the truth about the murder of Trayvon was frowned upon will working under that CAC Chief Lee.

  66. kllypyn says:

    Does it bother anyone the the people who came out right after the shot made no effort to provide first aid to trayvon?

    • It is shocking to me Kllypyn. There on the ground lay a nonmoving child and not one person except the 1st responders helped. Sad, sad, sad. One of the hero’s in this is the man who put his mouth directly on Trayvon’s mouth and did mouth to mouth. Outstanding ovation for this man!

      For those who do not understand, the risk of obtaining HIV,ect is so great in mouth to mouth breaths that by doing it you risk your life. A tiny drop of blood in the mouth could be there. It is very telling that this seasoned 1st responder did this. We all react by instinct when it is a child involved. To heck with our lives this is a kid jump in and do something……

      • kllypyn says:

        it’s just so sad they got out there just seconds after the shot they see a kid lying face down and they did nothing. Given the internal damage done there was probably was no hope of saving him but if he lived shortly after he was shot it might have made his last seconds more comfortable.

      • riisey007 says:

        That was really heroic of the officer to give him mouth to mouth. I am so glad that he tried. Martin would not have survived because the air he heard was his lungs deflating and free air and blood filling the pericardial areas. He was dead within seconds and I hardly doubt he said to Zimmerman “you got me” Zimmerman is an animal because he had no compassion for someone he killed. It seems to me that Zimmerman had a clear view to shoot him in the heart, he wanted a quick kill and he got one.

        • Cercando Luce says:

          It seems like he also took the time, not only to be careful to not shoot his left hand, but also to tuck the gun under Trayvon’s photo button before shooting.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            gz did not purposely tuck his gun under the button. The button was to the upper right on Trayvon’s hoodie when gz put his gun up against the hoodie. He then pulled the hoodie to his left, to get his hand out of the way, and that brought the button down over the nozzle of the gun when he fired.

            It had to be a pretty sneaky shot taken, because anyone who either felt or saw a gun being centered on their heart, would have tried to turn and/or pull away, so the shot would miss vital organs.

            Think about it, if Trayvon had twisted and turned, the shot might have missed his heart. Of course, he’d probably still have died anyway because once the plural cavity (chest) is punctured the ability to move air in and out of the lungs is lost.

            The chest cavity that holds the lungs has negative pressure in it. That negative pressure is what keeps the lungs inflated. It allows the diaphragm to control the push of air into and out of the lungs. When the chest cavity is punctured this negative pressure is lost. Any air in the lungs merely seeps out of them with no force, so speech is not possible.

            gz was holding onto Trayvon and he snuck his gun out of it’s holster and quickly aimed and fired, by the time Trayvon realized what was happening, it was too late to formulate a reaction beyond yelling “Stop!”

            Keep watching gz’s eyes as they relate this part of the story and play the tape of the screams, you’ll note how he gets this far away look as he remembers what happened. A person in fear for their lives would have been trying to forget it all. He clearly has detailed memories of what happened, because he was under no threat at all.

      • Tee says:

        @ kllypyn it’s sad that they all stayed in their homes when they heard Trayvon yelling for help. Where Trayvon’s from that would have never happened, when the scuffle broke out there would have been a dozen people out there door. The Inner city maybe plagued with violence but when it’s in our yards in miami and it just fighting we’re out there. People where we are from don’t come out when we hear the gun shot, that’s when it’s time to get the hell out of there.

        • KA says:

          I don’t think Trayvon was urban or inter city. His mom made almost 70K/yr from her 26 yr county management job. His dad was an 11 yr employee of Fedex (or UPS). They were comfortable middle income in the top 3/5% of US incomes. .

          I am not sure they lived in a scrappy urban area.

    • pat deadder says:

      I’m only getting 5 hours of sleep a night due to reading every comment and watching trial.So if my comment sounds a little crazy that’s my excuse.I noticed fogen took note of Trayvon’s pin on his hoodie in nen call..It was dark there so I think fogen used the position of the pin to make sure he shot the poor child in or near the heart.He was conniving from the moment he saw Trayvon and when he saw the pictures of Trayvon that Serino showed he was so non chalant and in court when they showed Trayvon deceased at the scene he seemed uncaring.He is a sick sick individual.

    • Tzar says:

      Remember that fogen was still mounting Trayvon squeezing the life out of him, they were probably afraid he would shoot them too

    • Nellie Nell says:

      That screaming would have prevented me from not going out there wanting to know why this child is screaming for help like that. GZ would have had to shoot me too because there is no way that I would have been able to ignore such a desperate call for help.

      Makes tears well up in my eyes just thinking about Trayvon.

  67. PiranhaMom says:

    @Malisha,

    Re: “Serino said, “capillary-type cuts or lacerations, not coincident with” a beat-down. IOW not serious. He said “coincident” and I think he meant “consistent.” WTH, maybe he can’t read cursive.”

    Malisha, I think you’ll find “coincident” to be the correct cop-speak word that Serino used. Same with aviation “incident” (i.e., crash)investigations..

    It means “at the same time AND AS PART OF an incident.”

    So Serino is stating that the two dinky lacerations are “injuries” that would never be part of, or due to, “a beat down,” and thus would not be considered indicative of a beat down, nor evidence of a beat down.

    In other words, it’s something entirely unrelated. Gotta come up with another reason. The squibs did not come from a beat down. No evidence whatsoever that any beat down occurred. FAEF!

    (Find another excuse, Fogen!)

  68. dianetrotter says:

    I wonder if clips from blaxploitation movies could be used in close, showing those ridiculous statements attributed to Trayvon are actually blasts from the past.

  69. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    timestamp 1:41 = Smith testifying about 2821 RVC

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=officer%20smith%20testimony%20zimmerman&source=video&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDkQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dc-tOxlh78ds&ei=m2DPUc6mPLS24APH14DACA&usg=AFQjCNH0m6ec5qRXWbCS3ugmb9rKDYv1dQ&bvm=bv.48572450,d.dmg

    excerpt:

    Guy: Was there an update to the location after you got into the complex?

    Smith: 1231 (TTL) was where I was originally given, so I arrived there first.

    Guy: Can you show approximately where 1231 is?

    Smith: Right in this area.

    Guy: Okay. And where did you go?

    Smith: From there I was given an update from an address on Retreat View advising that the incident was taking place behind that location.

    Guy: Alright, and do you recall the address on Retreat View Circle that you were given?

    Smith: 2821 Retreat View

    • KA says:

      No observed physical discomfort or distress in the police monitoring room? What is that…30 min after defending yourself from a violent attack in which you had to kill someone?

      Really, speechless. I hope that is not lost on the jury.

      • dianetrotter says:

        I would be devastated that I just killed someone rather the person was right or wrong. Don’t police officers have to go through some type of debriefing after killing someone to see how they are impacted.

  70. Nef05 says:

    Anyone know who goes first/last in closing arguments? I hope the prosecution goes last, so the jury forgets all the 3 hrs. worth of BS West is going to spout, and the prosecution’s closing is the last thing they hear before deliberations.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      yes, nef — prosecution presents last in closing arguments.

      because the prosecution has the burden of proof, they are given a couple of advantages in court procedure — they go first in opening arguments and last in closing arguments. the prosecution is the first word and last word the jury will hear.

  71. ay2z says:

    Jentel Rachael, love ya girl! You brought it home!

    Shine on…. !! Shine On you Crazy Diamond!! … “caught in th crossfire”/

  72. Do anybody know where on the shirt underneath Trayvon’s hoodie is GZ’s blood?
    GZ was supposed to have been beat up, but he refused to go to the hospital three times. Then he was told to see a EMT doctor, and told his doctor, he wasn’t going to go. Odd for somebody who just got butt kick and was near death, 24 hours before. People keep calling this a beating and somebody last night said fat boy could had brain trauma, but wait he DECIDED HE DIDN’T NEED TO GO THE HOSPITAL THAT NIGHT NOR TO A SPECIALIST TO IF HE DID HAVE TRAUMA. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN PICTURES, by Z’s own actions – he knew he didn’t have any head trauma. By not seeking help – medical help, he telling us that HE WASN’T HURT THAT BAD! What more do people need to see?

    • elcymoo says:

      If I remember correctly, GZ’s blood/DNA was found at the lower right corner of the shirt underneath Trayvon’s hoodie.

    • disappointed says:

      Charlie I am not sure why GZ did not go to E.R.. Even if he did not have insurance (I think he did tho) because “he was the victim”(puke and I will wash my mouth out with soap for saying that) he could have received victim asst with bills. With that said if I felt the need to pull the trigger because I thought I was going to die you can bet I would be at the hospital. If nothing else with some mental health issues for taking the life of another human being.

      • riisey007 says:

        I think I know why he didn’t go. He knew he was in the wrong and that he murdered Martin, he wasn’t sure of what questions he would be asked at the hospital. He also knew that his head/nose would be x rayed and that the emergency room physician would also examine his head closely along with his nose. He was afraid that the physician would know exactly what caused his injuries and he could not risk that. Zimmerman also worried about blood tests. He wanted to keep control of the situation by not involving the hospital. No one that goes through the E.R by ambulance or police escort is asked to pay a bunch of money, there are also indigent programs for those who can’t pay. Money was not the problem but being found out by emergency room physicians his lie was the problem. The ambulance should have taken him to the hospital regardless under the direction of police if he had just experienced life threatening injuries. I have seen people roll in on the ambulance for less than his little boo boos if you can believe that. I refuse to believe that it was about money or insurance. It was way more sinister than that. Zimmerman took criminal law classes and so he could have very well gotten into some case studies about crimes an self defense. He was way to ahead of himself volunteering and covering his bases. Giving information that had not been asked yet, making sure to tell people quickly that he was attacked and that he shot in self defense. Zimmerman laid the ground work that whole night, I am sure that he had played this whole thing in his head over and over again until he finally got the opportunity and found this poor kid walking. I believe he planned this. He is a big screw up and that is all he seems to be able to do with his life is screw it up. How can someone who only renter in the neighborhood be so gong ho and feel such a responsibility to protect it at all cost.

      • Thank you. GZ’s blood was on the front on Martin’s Tshirt? I’m think that prove at Z was on top at some point. How did Z’s blood get on TM’s T-shirt?

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @SearchingMind –

          THANK YOU so very much, Searcher! We needed that! Thanks also for the anticipated correction – knew that was coming!

          I had been worried since the defense spent 2 hours 20 minutes in its Opening Statement, but West referenced no evidence.

          I thought West might be just throwing doubt to the winds, so the defense could rest after the prosecution’s case-in-chief.

          Such a great response, Searcher – thanks!

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Charlie Christopher –

          Charlie, GZ was riffling around Trayvon’s waistband looking for a holster/weapon on TM to prove that TM was a thug threatening him – so that’s why he killed TM in “self defense.”

          This happened immediately after the Kel-Tek recoil snapped GZ in the schnozz (more accurately, the lip took the brunt of the force), and GZ would have instinctively put his hand up to his mouth/nose when he felt the sting of the recoil.

          So GZ had his own blood n his hand when it went under Trayvon’s shirts, and though there was little external blood from Tray’s wounds, GZ pickup up some and it combined with his own.

          Next GZ rolled Tray’s torso over to search Tray’s rear waistband but GZ used his non-blooded hand to do so, also he checked out whether the hollow-point made an exit wound. It didn’t (Would have been bad news for GZ if the bullet went THROUGH Tray into the ground – would prove GZ shot Tray while Tray was flat on his back, held down by GZ.)

          The roll-over placed Tray’s hands under him, as he clutched his chest when shot.

          Then Zimmerman rose, as the neighbor-witnesses spotted him.

  73. Girlp says:

    Should have posted this first this a reporters view of the jury…Al Sharpton ‘Politics Nation’
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45755884/vp/52335112#52345816

  74. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    After I got some much needed rest, I’m feeling better today.

    Anyway, what I wanted say has something to do with the two puncture holes on GZ’s nose. He could have did it with broken glass, razor cut, or a nail.

    • Unabogie says:

      Even media I agree with is terrible. They just get so many details wrong I wonder how they have jobs doing this! Serino wanted manslaughter, not murder. But on the other hand, there was no cop who said they thought it was self defense. Serino was on the case from the get go and he and Singleton obviously never believed Zimmerman. So if you watch that stuff you don’t end up gaining insight into the case. You end up confused and misinformed.

      Sigh.

      • deetruth says:

        Actually, Serino’s first capias (draft?) was a murder 2 charge, but he then changed it to manslaughter.

      • Malisha says:

        Serino wrote TWO (2) drafts of his memo asking for a charge of Murder-2. Only by the third (3rd) draft did he ask for a charge of manslaughter. This came out after he hired Baez to represent him. Baez gave those two earlier drafts to the prosecution saying that they should have them because they were “exculpatory evidence” that had to be given to the defense! Of course they were NOT — they were damning! But that’s part of the picture here.

      • cielo62 says:

        Unabogie~ Don’t know if anyone has chimed min yet, BUT Serino originally DID want Second Degree Murder. He wrote 2 drafts for M2, but was shot down by his “superiors.” He then tried to get Manslaughter charges, and even that was shot down by higher ups. Serino wanted M@ from the very start.

        ________________________________

      • Tzar says:

        NO ONE DOES THEIR HOMEWORK ANYMORE

    • dianetrotter says:

      I thoroughly enjoyed their analyses.

  75. Judy75201 says:

    @IMBack, I replied to your question at the end of the previous thread.

  76. OtherDennis says:

    I think there’s an interesting point to made about injuries and reasonable fear of great bodily harm. While the jury may never hear it, the defendant stated to police that the physical assault itself was not what caused him to draw and fire his gun. Rather, he claims that it was when he was told he was going to die and felt like his weapon was going to be used against him.

    • Dennis says:

      I tried using a variant on the name Dennis because there’s another one on here but the post is waiting moderation so I’ll just post under Dennis.

      I think there’s an interesting point to made about injuries and reasonable fear of great bodily harm. While the jury may never hear it, the defendant stated to police that the physical assault itself was not what caused him to draw and fire his gun. Rather, he claims that it was when he was told he was going to die and felt like his weapon was going to be used against him.

      • ay2z says:

        He should get on the stand and bring it!!

        Let the jury speculate that it’s audible in the 911 call and that it was spoken by one or another.

        Who wanted to stop whom from getting away? Who would have used that threat in anger?

        GZ is very good, he handles big time media like on Hannity, he can handle this and sell his story when he is in control. Now if the state were to bring in another lawyer, a strong and excellent black woman trial lawyer, he might lose it facing down a strong woman. He’d fold.

        • ay2z says:

          LLMPapa never quits for justice!! Damn!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            gz had told the NEN operator “Could you just have them call me when they arrive” and he would tell the arriving officer where he was.

            Could that when gz was on the phone right after killing Trayvon that he was giving Ofc. Smith that address of 2821 Retreat View Circle. If so, it definitely means that gz went down to that point and cut through to come in contact with Trayvon.

            You are amazing, LLMPapa, to bring this video to us showing location. Good catch!!!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            if that were the case, i would think we would have heard that from ofc. smith when he was on the stand.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            well dang, this showed up in the wrong place

            @YAHTC — this was directed to a question you had about LE perhaps calling GZ when they reached the scene

          • looneydoone says:

            faux,
            I was fixated on how unsteady Timothy Smith’s hand was while describing his route, and movements within the RATL housing project, while using the laser pen. Appeared very nervous to me. I’ve long thought Smith was the officer cac was waiting to meet him on scene.
            I believe Smith’s dirty, and a friend of cac

            *I will continue using *cac* since the SunDance (at the outhouse) wears “cracker” as a source of pride…it’s not a racial slur. fogen and his followers are, indeed, white crackers.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @looney

            you must know, cracker is fine with me. i’ve heard the word since birth – it is how my mother differentiated her own (once poor) white southern family from trash. when i talked to her 76 year old self 2 days ago to ask her feelings on the word, whether or not it is vulgar her comment was “crackers are just crackers”.

            yes, too, on ofc. smith. i have my suspicions, but do not engage in speculation.

          • looneydoone says:

            faux,
            Yes! “crackers” are not necessarily “white trash”…and “white trash” isn’t limited to those in the lower economic/social classes.

            Poor Rachel. I think she might ask for a Creole interpreter if called again by the defense. Her excuse might be that while she understands English, she has difficulty expressing herself in a manner that allows them to understand her, and that she’s most comfortable speaking Creole. That would put some distance between her and the defense’s attempts at humiliating and discrediting her testimony. You notice the defense wasn’t able to savage Ms Mora in the same manner, thanks to her needing a translator

          • parrot says:

            Looney, Rachel was born here, so assuming that her first language of the home is Creole, she would only know the vocabulary and expressions relating to her home life.

            Never having lived in Haiti she would not have developed the language fully in the many other areas of life.

            Because she attended a school here in the USA, her English must be better than her Creole and her Spanish (that is, if she speaks those languages)

            Many people who speak Spanish here in the United States have never lived in a Spanish-speaking country, so their Spanish language skills are limited as well.

          • Woow! says:

            I had no problem understanding Rachel and I have never been around folks that speak Patios. Yes her diction and sentence structure could have been better. You are a product of your environment and Rachel is accustomed to talking to people that probably talk with the same slang.

            Rachel did not come off as being uneducated to me at all. That young women is a critical listener and I will admit that my listening skills are not as sharp as hers. She did the damn thing with West. He is trained to ask questions to get the answers he wants from people; but he got nada from Ms. Rachel…. you go girl….my hero.

            As for W daughter(s)….. they are not the most attractive cookies in the jar and their attitudes make them even uglier. I believe in Karma and when it comes back around to her I hope she gets just what she deserves.

            The best thing Rachel can do is forget about all those people speaking negatively about her because they are just made that she, a stereotypical black teen put bested a “Crazy Ass Cracker”.

          • Sophia33 says:

            Rachel ran that court room. If the defense really thought they had defeated her they would not have spent two days badgering her on the stand, and they wouldn’t think of calling her back.

            Rachel held her own. So much so, I half expected Don West to say to the judge, “Um judge, all of our attempts to break this witness have failed. IT’S NOT FAIR! IT’S NOT FAIR!.”

            “Mr. Don” was on the verge of tantrum. Because of the way she presented herself, she came off as genuine. I too grew up with people like Rachel. Some of them are in my family. They don’t believe in putting on airs. They are the same folks not matter what. Charles Ramsey was that way.

            And I could be wrong, but I would not at all be surprised if Mr. Don had a hand in that twitter message being posted. It was a way to present false bravo of the defense.

          • Dennis says:

            I love that idea. That way they can’t take her statements out of context from her possibly using a wrong word. I’m just surprised the prosecution didn’t do just that. It is obvious she has trouble expressing herself correctly in English.

          • Dennis says:

            I’ve never found cracker to be offensive. I am from Michigan so what do I know. I believe that word is from the south.

          • vickie s. votaw says:

            I can’t remember who said it but I agree with the poster who said Trayvon gave us his name, crazy ass cracker, I defer to Trayvon, a voice of authority! I liked using fogen, because unless he repents his evil, he will be forgotten, that is promised, but in honor of Trayvon it is CAC from now on for me. Not that any of my rambling have any significance , I’m just one focal point of the universe among billions, 🙂

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy- crackers are just crackers? Can’t change a cracker’s snap? LOL!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Trained Observer says:

            Looney — Fogen does not qualify as a cracker. Check out history of crackers on this site or others. Even so, CAC makes sense as an honoring nod to Trayvon’s crazy ass assessment.

          • ay2z says:

            caca is what in Russian?? 😉

          • Woow! says:

            Growing up in Louisiana we referred to racist (Klan) people as crackas therefore the term as I know it means racist person.

            Now my grandfather bless his soul was a sharecropper and he referred to the Klan as peckerwoods. (look at that ole peckerwood over there) or (them peckerwoods are low down and dirty)……. the funny thing is my grandmother was half and half and he was half black and Indian (from India). They suffered a lot in their relationship getting married in 1938 as did their parents.

            Before all of you blow your top, in the 70s I used to see those fools in their white sheet and hat (face not covered) on the corner with their little double barrel shot guns trying to intimidate folks. You know how firemen would stand out with their boots to collect money…those nuts was doing that in the 70s with milk buckets, 5 gallon ice cream bucket, or they would use the hats.

            I remember when a white family purchased land at the end of the lane my grandparents lived on. They were some mean people. Would pass by and yell the N word, throw trash out their window. We used to play out by the road but the grownups told us not to b/c those people would drive by so fast knowing kids played out there. My grandfather called the sheriff and he did there was nothing he could do unless someone got hurt.

            One day my uncles were walking down the road (gravel back then) and the new neighbor and his sons tried to run them over. A few weeks went by and my uncles caught them in the pasture and whipped them with a garden hose. My grandfather was waiting on the sheriff but he never came. We never had any problems with those folks again. They called the sheriff and he laughed.

            To this day those people pass by and never look over toward my grandmothers hose and it has been 40 yrs.

            Bully’s will only go after those they think are weaker than they are. Once you stand up to them, they tuck their tails and crawl back under the rock they slithered from under.

            George Zimmerman only picked on young males. I bet he would not have jumped a grown black man in the dark. Coward!!!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Woow,

            Thanks for your post. I appreciate such sharing of personal and family experiences. I have learned so much because of yours and others’ sharing of experiences and feelings.

            I can’t believe the boldness of the klan in the 1970s to stand on corners in their ironed sheets collecting money.

            Loved the story of your uncles. Good for them!

            (This reply will probably end up at the bottom of the page because of the way wordpress is functioning today.)

          • smokeegyrl says:

            nah uh… not in Louisiana fo sho… not these days either… they carry guns in the wide open… to kill them black snakes that crawl from the river to the swamps at night… that’s why houses are up on blocks… so they snakes can crawl through them.. no basements in some homes…. Fogen wouldn’t be following nobody up in Louisiana specially up at night… find himself in the swamp somewhere…

          • Woow! says:

            Gator bait… or razor back

          • kllypyn says:

            he knew trayvon was not a match for him. he just didn’t expect him to resist. When he did he got angry and eventually killed him.

          • cielo62 says:

            Trained observer- THIS CAC is Afro Peruvian. Making him a CAC wannabe, just like everything else in his life.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Tzar says:

            I noticed the shakiness too

          • Tzar says:

            looneydoone says:
            June 29, 2013 at 7:38 pm

            faux,
            I was fixated on how unsteady Timothy Smith’s hand was while describing his route, and movements within the RATL housing project, while using the laser pen. Appeared very nervous to me. I’ve long thought Smith was the officer cac was waiting to meet him on scene.
            I believe Smith’s dirty, and a friend of cac

            *I will continue using *cac* since the SunDance (at the outhouse) wears “cracker” as a source of pride…it’s not a racial slur. fogen and his followers are, indeed, white crackers.

            I noticed it too
            heck, I even saw him hold the pointer with two hands at one point

          • darlinsass says:

            Hi Dear friend, Did you notice officer Smith held the laser pen with both hands and it still jumped around like a cat pooping hot peppers!

          • cielo62 says:

            Darlinsass- LOL! What a visual.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Great job, LLMPapa.

            My comment to you appeared below.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Word Press is not posting my replies in the proper location.

          • bettykath says:

            I don’t get the point of this video. Were the words of consequence? I couldn’t hear them over the music.

          • ay2z says:

            I think the first set of condos were the 28 hundred block, second down, the 2700 block and the closest to the back entrance and south TTL corner, is the 2600 block.

            Smith was called to 2821 RVC, and his closest route was to park at the north end, sidewalk entrance.

            The significance of this is apparently, (LLMPapa please correct me or add to this), the position of 2821 in the row of houses being several houses south of the “T” where fogen claims things started and where he hit the ground with a single blow, and where Lauer’s lived on the TTL side.

          • Nef05 says:

            I couldn’t hear what the cop was saying. Can anyone summarize for me, please? I know it must be on point and I hate that I can’t hear it.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Smith was explaining his route into the Retreat and giving the address to park near which was 2821 Retreat View Circle as shown by LLMPapa. This location is right at the walk thru between the first building of townhouses and the second building.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Either gz might have given this address directly to Smith or to the NEN operator who gave it to Smith.

            Good chance W13( Jon- flashlight W) saw gz talking to NEN or Ofc, Smith when he first came out after the shot.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            {wordpress is posting comments out of place}

            .

            timestamp 1:41 = Smith testifying about 2821 RVC

            excerpt:

            Guy: Was there an update to the location after you got into the complex?

            Smith: 1231 (TTL) was where I was originally given, so I arrived there first.

            Guy: Can you show approximately where 1231 is?

            Smith: Right in this area.

            Guy: Okay. And where did you go?

            Smith: From there I was given an update from an address on Retreat View advising that the incident was taking place behind that location.

            Guy: Alright, and do you recall the address on Retreat View Circle that you were given?

            Smith: 2821 Retreat View

          • Two sides to a story says:

            The address may have been given by one of the witnesses who called 911. Who lives at 2821 Retreat View Circle?

          • whonoze says:

            2821 RVC is the residence of the woman who called 911 concerned that the noises might indicate a medical problem of “an elderly gentleman” who lived up the street. She neither heard nor saw anything significant, as far as we know, and she is unlikely to be called to testify. (The State did not authenticate her 911 call, as they did for Lauer, Surdyka and Good.)

          • ay2z says:

            Thanks, I was wrong. I thought there was only one dog being taken out, but looks like there were two mentions of dogs.

            The boy with the dog was 2761.

            My bad, sorry!

            http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/witchartmap.pdf

          • ay2z says:

            It appears that 2761 is the first condo in the middle block south of the 2800 block.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Here is a link to the map Willis marked. As pointed out by Whonoze that W19’s address is 2821 RVC.

            GZwitnesslocations

          • bettykath says:

            Can’t be from NEN based on fogen’s call. We heard fogen’s nen call. He didn’t give an address except 111 RVC and his own. If he had called NEN or 911 again, we’d have heard about it. Smith is a possibility.

          • LLMPapa says:

            The point of the video is this, Officer Smith’s report of 2/27/2012 says he parked at 2821 RVC. His testimony says that’s the address he was given by dispatch. That address is the next to last unit on the SOUTH end of that building.

            However, his testimony was, as shown, that he parked in front of the first or second unit on the NORTH end of the building and walked around the north end to the shooting scene.

            It caught my eye because of the time the State seemed to take in establishing where he says he parked his squad car. I don’t know what, if anything it means, but I don’t remember any other Officer or technician being asked anything about where they parked.

          • bettykath says:

            Thanks. I’ve played with the thingees on the audio but haven’t found the magic to keep the music from covering the dialog. Music is always appropriate to the video. And the videos are great.

          • crazy1946 says:

            If my memory serves me correctly, I think when Tim Smith was asked if he had any prior contact with the Fogdoit, he said no, but he broke eye contact when he said that. Do we know who the Fogdoit was with during the ride a long’s that he participated in? Could Tim Smith have been one of them that he rode with? There was a reason he was asked if he knew the Fogdoit when I don’t recall any other officer being asked that question….

          • ic2fools says:

            If you watch Ofc Smith Testimony, when the camera panned onto Fogen he never looked up at Ofc Smith like he would look at the other witnesses, Fogen was always writing…..

          • KA says:

            Doodling I suspect….lottsa smiley faces…

          • ic2fools says:

            😆 an a running stick man

          • ic2fools says:

            reply not in the right place, arrghh

            @KA, an fogen doodling if i only could….

          • Malisha says:

            Smith put Fogen into his squad car.

          • ic2fools says:

            @LLMPapa

            reading your explantion all I could think of is this video you posted:

            Who Did He Call? Fogen told Hannity when the dispatcher told him “we do not need you to follow him’, he(fogen) said he walked the sidewalk onto his street Retreat View Circle where he thought he would meet a police officer who I had called. (I thought he went to look for an address)

            hmmmm, could that officer be Smith, his buddy.

            Mi thinks Fogen called Smith and Smith took the direction you pointed out in the newest video Smiths testimony. I also noticed like you that Smith was the only one asked where he parked. They did ask others which way did the come in but not where they parked.

            We’ll see more when the phone records are introduced and hear more when Smith is called back.

            Thanks Papa…

          • vickie s. votaw says:

            I think they asked the heavy policeman where he parked, I can’t spell his name.

          • Raimondo was asked where he parked.
            T. Smith was given W19’s address but chose to park further north after having understood that floor plan consists in two rows to houses with a walk way in between and also after having seen someone standing up on the dog walk thanks to his spotlight.

          • LLMPapa says:

            tchoupicaillou says:
            June 29, 2013 at 8:03 pm

            Raimondo was asked where he parked.
            T. Smith was given W19′s address but chose to park further north after having understood that floor plan consists in two rows to houses with a walk way in between and also after having seen someone standing up on the dog walk thanks to his spotlight.

            You are correct re Raimondo. Since making the statement of not being aware of others being asked, I’ve become aware of others who were such as Alaya.

            You could also be correct in the possibility raised as to his reason for choosing to park further north, but it seems odd his report would indicate his parking at W19’s residence at 2821 RVC.

          • Faith in mankind has been totally dismantled. The people weve intrusted with bringing justice are showing themselves to be totally corrupt. To cover up the murder of a child has to be the most despicable betrayal of granted authority.

          • Malisha says:

            Fogen, Frank Taaffe, Lee, Wolfinger, Mahaney, Dershowitz, West, O’Mara, Merritt and their ilk make me ashamed. I don’t know whether to be ashamed for white people, for Americans, for the justice system, or for whom. Finally it came through to me: I just need to understand that we are ashamed for HUMANITY. We really need to self correct. This process is part of our attempt to self-correct. It’s a slowwwwwww process.

          • Woow! says:

            Malisha don’t be ashamed. Be happy that these people are showing us who they really are. If all our brothers and sisters no matter what race come together each time a tragedy such as this happen we can show people like them that we will not tolerate their kind.

            We, the sane rational folks did this, brought TM killer to trial. We need to keep standing together to show these people that the lynching days are over and we all need to get along.

          • These are the people in charge. Notice the difference, they’re not public servants, they’re there to institute public policy and influence public opinion. They’re not white people, they’re just servants of inhumanity.

          • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

            You not kidding. That’s scary!

          • jo says:

            thankfully i have faith in the prosecution. i don’t have faith in those that made the decision not to prosecute when the actual killing happened and i don’t have faith in the gun loving and racist ferals that have outed themselves during this whole process……but it is nice to know that there are many intelligent, fair minded, justice seeking people, every colour, every religion, every sex and age, that are wanting and willing to fight for a child they never met because what happened to him was wrong. It has also highlighted just how little progress has been made, with all the racists that were bubbling under the surface rising to the top and making their stench known to the rest of the world.

          • jo says:

            hmmm this was in response to Leroy, what the heck is happening, my posts are all over the shop lol…did we break it?? did we, did we?

          • smokeegyrl says:

            what get’s to me LLMPapa is why didn’t TSmith get out of his car when he shot his light down the path way. He already knew that somebody got shot… AND it pissed me the hell off when he didn’t bother to check Trayvon Martin for any signs of life… he catered to Fogen first… Then touched the Fogen’s gun with no gloves on… He contaminated the gun… (but I thought that may be good for us)… but still… dang.. He seemed like he didnt care. I didn’t get that from Ayala.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @smokeegyrl

            i am no big fan of ocf. smith, but protocol would dictate that the gun and shooter be attended to first at such a scene so as to not endanger the arriving officer and bystanders.

            think about the potential consequences of attending to the victim first — officers shot, bystanders shot. yes, it is sad, but ultimately it’s a ‘first things first’ situation.

          • smokeegyrl says:

            yeah… *sigh* that makes sense… I’m no LE but it would make sense to handcuff him to a secure place close to the scene… to attend to the victim… I guess I just want to blame mostly everyone involved… *choke*

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @smokeegyrl

            i do understand. why people such as jon manolo who did get there first but discussed gun caliber and took photos of the body as it was still warm is where i tend to project my anger. i cannot understand that and never will.

          • ic2fools says:

            @LLMPapa

            The point of the video is this, Officer Smith’s report of 2/27/2012 says he parked at 2821 RVC. His testimony says that’s the address he was given by dispatch

            Would it be worth listening to 2/26/2012 dispatch records to see if Ofc. Smith was truthful about dispatch?

            I could not stop thinking did SPD keep those dispatch records? I remember I saw something to that effect.

            I’m not sure if this is of any help:here is the list of dispatched police officers on 2/26/2012 and the link to listen to them.
            I do not know which one is Ofc. Smith

            http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/audio/police-radio-dispatch/

            Sanford Police Department Radio Dispatch Files 2-26-2012

            Police Dispatch Audio 1
            Police Dispatch Audio 2
            Police Dispatch Audio 3
            Police Dispatch Audio 4
            Police Dispatch Audio 5
            Police Dispatch Audio 6
            Police Dispatch Audio 7
            Police Dispatch Audio 8
            Police Dispatch Audio 9
            Police Dispatch Audio 10
            Police Dispatch Audio 11
            Police Dispatch Audio 12
            Police Dispatch Audio 13
            Police Dispatch Audio 14
            Police Dispatch Audio 15
            Police Dispatch Audio 16
            Police Dispatch Audio 17
            Police Dispatch Audio 18
            Police Dispatch Audio 19
            Police Dispatch Audio 20
            Police Dispatch Audio 21
            Police Dispatch Audio 22
            Police Dispatch Audio 23
            Police Dispatch Audio 24
            Police Dispatch Audio 25
            Police Dispatch Audio 26
            Police Dispatch Audio 27
            Police Dispatch Audio 28
            Police Dispatch Audio 29
            Police Dispatch Audio 30

            Police Dispatch Audio 31
            Police Dispatch Audio 32
            Police Dispatch Audio 33
            Police Dispatch Audio 34
            Police Dispatch Audio 35
            Police Dispatch Audio 36
            Police Dispatch Audio 37
            Police Dispatch Audio 38
            Police Dispatch Audio 39
            Police Dispatch Audio 40
            Police Dispatch Audio 41
            Police Dispatch Audio 42
            Police Dispatch Audio 43
            Police Dispatch Audio 44
            Police Dispatch Audio 45
            Police Dispatch Audio 46

            Police Dispatch Audio 47
            Police Dispatch Audio 48
            Police Dispatch Audio 49
            Police Dispatch Audio 50
            Police Dispatch Audio 51
            Police Dispatch Audio 52
            Police Dispatch Audio 53
            Police Dispatch Audio 54
            Police Dispatch Audio 55
            Police Dispatch Audio 56

          • ay2z says:

            Remember one comment about parking up towards the grass on TTL, by one officer, maybe parking near another officer’s car. Don’t remember who said this though.

          • ay2z says:

            Get in the box, front and center Camera 1, George. Or can’t you handle it when no blue screens and editing professionals and lawyer beside you, to create your post-production story line?

          • Two sides to a story says:

            CAC!

        • crazy1946 says:

          Hmmm, maybe a “real” afro-Peruvian female attorney?

        • cielo62 says:

          ay2z~ Even on Hannity, gz did a poor job, EVEN with the softball questions he was being fed! NO REGRET? Not even a few crocodile tears for the victim? Nah, Bernie will be able to dismantle gz quite easily on ths stand.

          ________________________________

          • ay2z says:

            shhh!! ‘)…. let’s let him think he’s great so he gets up there without the fake studio of the Hannity person.

        • mrsdoubtfire says:

          With respect on Hannity he was there to do a PR job on himself and foolishly still punt a stand your ground defence. That caused him to make some huge gaffs e..g we got the “skipping” Trayvon and him locking himself into only 30 seconds elapsing between hanging up with the despatcher and his claim that Trayvon confronted and attacked him while poor old George was merely heading back to his truck. Even with an ally like Hannity throwing him leading questions, his lawyer sitting right beside him he couldnt keep his story straight.

          • Nellie Nell says:

            The more he talked the closer he got to his arrest. At 1st I was mad that he kept running his mouth because he kept trying to make Trayvon into the dark octopus angry monster, but then I realized what a wonderful job he was doing at showing people just how evil he really is.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It disgusts me that Fogen carries a gun, follows, confronts, then fears his gun is going to get used against him – and all without any logic whatsoever except his own flaming paranoia that led him to follow someone innocent and trying to escape him. Creepy ass cracker indeed!

        • Cercando Luce says:

          He must have loved the notion of arresting someone under the charge of “resisting arrest.”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, so far at trial gz has submitted no evidence at all of a self defense claim. So far all he has is some testimony that he suffered some kind of injuries, but there’s nothing to say where those injuries came from.

            Obviously Bernie is biding his time, when enough claims are put on record that gz may have obtained his wounds from his head hitting the sidewalk, Bernie is going to reveal that sidewalks don’t cause sharp force injuries. Then have a doctor explain that these sharp force wounds exhibit no blunt force contact at all. gz is toast!!!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @cercando — that is priceless.

            “Stop, in the name of the neighborhood watch! It is I, coordinator, block captain and sole member of this neighborhood watch, george zimmerman and i hereby place you under citizen’s arrest for resisting arrest!”

      • dianetrotter says:

        Good point Dennis, imho but who am I.

        • Malisha says:

          I’m not goin for it. He said he was afraid to lose consciousness; he said his head felt like it was gonna explode; he said he felt like trayvon was trying to smother him; eh beh meh. Then he tried to bring it all to a crescendo of supposed victimization (by means of “savage beating”) with the shimmy, the wardrobe fail, the hand, the pinch, and the “homie-like” declaration: “You’re gonna die tonight MF.” Of course I’m not buying any of it but especially I’m not buying that his reason for “reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death” was that alleged threat. Ever hear someone who’s been pranked shout, “I’ll KILL YOU”? never scared anybody. If Fogen wasn’t building his fairy tale of being beaten to death he wouldn’t have used the fairy tale death threat.

          • Malisha says:

            Besides which, if you can easily overcome your opponent and he has not hurt you much, why would you fear his idle threats. I once had a kid of four years old for whom I was baby-sitting threaten to behead me for not giving him a second desert. If they can’t do anything to you, you don’t really get scared by empty threats.

          • bettykath says:

            Malisha, smart mouth kid should have had his first dessert! Did you turn him upside down to get it back? 🙂

          • Malisha says:

            BK, it was a peculiar “special circumstance.” This was a four-year-old boy of Indian parents who had the only boy in their generation. His mom called him “Raj” and stood at attention as he issued commands to her. When I baby-sat for him and his older sister, my own kid was there and was one of three or more kids all playing together. I had told the mom and dad that we were all just a group and nobody was the “raj” of the group and they agreed. but he couldn’t adjust to it. He had a few dynamite-plus tantrums in the first week or two. At one point he chose to start abusing his older sister (who would not defend herself, having been taught not to) and I isolated him. He kept rushing out of his isolation quarters (a foam pad mattress) and I kept wordlessly putting him back in. It went on and on until finally he got exhausted and dropped to a dramatic prostrate position, weeping in frustration. When he recovered it was lunchtime and we all ate as if nothing had happened and everyone got strawberries and yogurt for dessert. I can remember this like it was yesterday. He demanded another helping but I said everybody got just one and then he tried to take his sister’s, which was half still there, and she did not resist but I swooped it up and told her if she had had enough I’d put it in the fridge for later. He went MMA! When he threatened to “chop off your head” my own kid got on his case so I kicked the kids out into the playroom and took the little prince to the back room with me while he screamed bloody murder. If anybody heard I’m sure they would have turned me in to child protective services; it sounded like a child being drawn and quartered! I was holding him in a “straightjacket” hold and he was screaming about beheading me.

            Now I’m laughing. My son had to be comforted a lot because he didn’t want me beheaded by an angry four-year-old (he was only three so perhaps it sounded plausible to him).

            This is just the comic relief I needed to shake loose of the Fogentrial. 😆

          • ladystclaire says:

            I give you two thumbs up Malisha! way to go girl way to go. In the words of those on Little House On The Prairie would say, children need to learn a lesson. it was true then and, it is still true today.

            It’s very obvious that Fogen didn’t learn a thing because, his parents had very poor parenting skills. did you notice the look on Fogen Sr. face when they were told, that they had to leave the courtroom? let’s just say, if looks could kill there would be a lot of dead folks in that room. I can tell that he was a fatty at one time, by looking at his turkey neck.

          • willisnewton says:

            The verbal death threat is a tailor made lie to fit the conditions of justifiable homicide, a term GZ was familiar with – he mentioned it to Serino.

            And the idea that you see a gun on someone else, threaten them FIRST, and then go for the gun is ludicrous. Seems like a poor plan… and obvious lie.

          • Nellie Nell says:

            Once he searched Trayvon and did not find a weapon to support his fake announcement allegedly said by a teen with no weapon in hand, he had to think of a story and he had 3 minutes to think of a story before the cops arrived. He also had plenty time to think of a plan while sitting in the police car, waiting at the station for detectives and plenty time when he was in the bathroom at the station washing his hands (and possibly putting knots on his head).

            Because he was taking criminal justice classes, though he seemed to grade low in what seemed to be important classes, he knew about SYG and self defense no doubt. This is why he has so many stories. He knows what he needs to say, but fails to take into account the evidence to support what need to be said. So as he learned about all the evidence that was coming out, he had to change his story(s) to conform to the evidence. So to him, I say thanks you sick murdering idiot for running your freaking mouth and trying to talk your way out of killing an innocent teen.

            I think papa z will explode on the stand. I think his is going to lose his composure and expose the hatred that he holds in his heart against Trayvon, his parents, their attorneys, the NAACP, the Black Caucus, the NBA and the list goes on and on and on.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        He wasn’t told he was going to die, you came to the wrong house.

      • cielo62 says:

        Dennis~ In only ONE of his many fabrications does he state that. It’s impossible that everything gz stated could have happened as he stated it did. The total lack of DNA shows that no “ground and pound” was happening, so what stopped gz from just tossing Trayvon off and then pulling his weapon and holding Trayvon at gunpoint? Nothing except that gz wanted an excuse to be able to use deadly force. The forensics don’t support it AND gz words are not credible at all.

        ________________________________

      • Puck says:

        Is this the new Dennis?

      • Dennis says:

        Hello, and welcome to Frederick’s blog. There is also another person using Dennis on here that has been trolling a lot the past week or so. You must be at least the 3rd Dennis on here. Awesome name I guess.

      • Malisha says:

        Oh Lavender’s back. 🙄

        • aussie says:

          Could be the same one.

          All the same he has a good point — GZ was partly in fear because he thought Trayvon was going to take his gun and use it against him. However, the tapes don’t have even a whisper of T saying “you’re going to die tonight MOFO” so that excuse is out.

          • ladystclaire says:

            @aussie, who ever wrote that script for Fogen, well they would never make it as a writer in Hollywood or even a Christmas program.

            Where is his bff Oysterman?

          • whonoze says:

            aussie wrote:

            [As to the point that] “GZ was partly in fear because he thought Trayvon was going to take his gun and use it against him. However, the tapes don’t have even a whisper of T saying ‘you’re going to die tonight MOFO’ so that excuse is out.”

            Alas, the fact that GZ has uttered a bucket-full of falsehoods about the evening of 2/26/12 does not prove BRD that he is lying about EVERYTHING. So nobody heard TM say “you’re going to die tonight” and it isn’t audible on the 911 call. GZ can claim TM said it real quiet-like. Or he can admit that TM might not have said anything at all and he just imagined it. He can still claim he felt Trayvon’s hand move down his side toward the gun, and legitimately feared TM was going to take the gun and use it against him. The burden of proof seems to be on the State to prove BRD that that is NOT what happened. That, methinks, will come down to how strong the forensic evidence is brought forth by the prosecution.

          • Dave says:

            It’s possible that Trayvon became aware of the gun at some point during a struggle either before or just after it was drawn. If so the only rational thing for him to do at that point would be to try to gain control of it to prevent his attacker from shooting him. If Jon Good was telling the truth about seeing Trayvon on top, those “down ward arm movements” were probably an attempt to keep the killer from deploying THE GUN against him. Even if Trayvon was attempting to get his hands on the gun itself, I would consider that a legitimate act of self defense since it was Zimmerman who initiated the fight and Trayvon would have had a reasonable fear of imminent death or grievous bodily injury.

          • Dave says:

            This was in response to whonose’s post above.

          • riisey007 says:

            I think when we heard the painful screams of agony is when he saw the gun. I truly don’t believe that Zimmerman pulled that gun out while being pinned down and Martins boney knees where at his waist. I have done this to my ex, not in a fight for life but just playful straddling and one thing about this position is that whomever does it, it is always the same with knees along the waist side. I just don’t see him pulling that gun while on his back. I believe the former school teacher about Z being on top and her saying it was Martins voice screaming. She taught kids Martins age, she knows how a teen boy sounds when he is in puberty. I have a 16 year old and when he gets excited telling me about football he can get high pitched like that. Z is telling us what he did to Martin but reversed it to make it be him. How disgusting. P.s. I think the side walk should sue Zim for defamation of character. Just light humor this morning. Oh and good morning by the way.

          • KA says:

            Whonoze,

            I agree he can claim he said it, and he said it real quiet like….but the screams were pretty loud and consistent on that call. Not sure how in the world he could logically explain that he “stopped” the screaming to listen” or he was able to hear over Trayvon’s screaming…..lotsa noise. I am not sure a “quietlike” claim would work.

          • dianetrotter says:

            Imagine the scenario he wants us to believe. He is continuously screaming, while he is shimmying away from the side walk and Trayvon is banging his head with one hand over his mouth and the other over his nose. Trayvon has to be leaning over to have a hand on mouth and one on nose …, all the while GZ is screaming. Then GZ’s jacket is raised and Trayvon sees the gun while he is still smothering GZ. He quietly whispers, “You gon die tonight mofo” while GZ is doing death yells. The screaming was long and continuous. Why carry a gun if you are going to let a kid take it from you while he is whipping you MMA style – with no lessons. You paid for all those lessons and couldn’t maintain control of your gun. This should be re-enacted in the courtroom complete with screaming, dialog, exposure of the gun, telling somebody to forget the police and come help, and then stop yelling after you shoot. BTW, if he was yelling, how could he tell someone to come to help him.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            gz needs to fashion yet another story, because his head never hit the sidewalk with any force at all. There are no blunt force injuries to his scalp. Only two sharp force injuries which would have required a weapon to put there. Trayvon had no weapon!!!!

            So then, again, as I said over a year ago “Where did gz’s injuries come from?” Trayvon had nothing at all to do with them, so they had to have been on gz, before he came to the scene!

            A year ago, all the evidence I had of his having prepared the injuries before hand was that the blood was dry look before it should have been. Now we know that there are no blunt force injuries, that would have to occur if his head was slammed on concrete.

            His head was never banged on the concrete so where did his injuries come from? We’re getting closer to premeditation again!

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Dennis –

        Ya’ mean the weapon Fogen feared Trayvon would get except, cleverly, he clamped his clamshell armpit on Trayvon’s wandering hand — for a millisecond?

        But Fogen just couldn’t frame the words, “Unhand me, varlet, lest I shoot thee?”

        All he could conceive of, was BAM! ???

        You mean, that fear of death?

        By golly Dennis, you’ve got that guy’s motive spot on!

        We was “armed and tongue-tied.”

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I am still confident that Good saw the entire shooting so when he testifies for the defense and is crossed by BDLR he will slip up and tell the truth. The guy yelling for help is dead as he started say on his 911 call. His claim to not see a gun is hogwash. By the time he got upstairs (so he claimed) by looking out the window down in the darkened area, he could tell that the “Black guy is dead out there”. Amazing how the guy on top with his back to him moved opposite of what fogen says which would happen to give him the opportunity to see, from his doorway further away and into the dark area, that the guy on top was Black

          Plus, the photos of the residences prove that Jenna would not have been able to see him from her enclosure with the partition between if he claimed to be where he said. He also would not have been able to see all those details clear to the sidewalk from his doorway. We can tell that by Manalo’s photo of Trayvon with Good’s home, patio light on, in the background. With out the flashlight shining on Trayvon, we would barely be able to make out a figure laying there. That is why the lighting is so important to mention for BDLR.

          I am looking forward to Good on cross by Bernie.

      • gblock says:

        The operative words here being “he claims”. There is no good reason to believe that it is true.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ OtherDennis

        “I think there’s an interesting point to made about injuries and reasonable fear of great bodily harm. While the jury may never hear it, the defendant stated to police that the physical assault itself was not what caused him to draw and fire his gun. Rather, he claims that it was when he was told he was going to die and felt like his weapon was going to be used against him.”

        I am not sure why you think that the jury may never hear this version of GZ’s MANY versions of “why he shot and killed an unarmed juvenile”. Maybe you might want to elaborate on that.

        That said, GZ’s claim as you relayed above is the WORST case GZ can present, because ‘It. Is. Just. Not. Possible.’ If you believe GZ (and O’Mara), you MUST also believe that Trayvon (a) “ground-pounded” GZ “MMA-style”, (b1) both of GZ’s hands were underneath Trayvon’s knees and/or (b2) Trayvon’s left leg and knee completely blocked GZ’s access to the gun holstered inside GZ’s pants, (c) GZ used the upper part of his right arm to pin Trayvon’s right hand to the right side of his (GZ’s) ribcage, and (e) used the lower part of the same right hand to grab a gun he has no access to and fired a straight shot into Trayvon’s chest – with an angle of “0.00” , etc. (there other extremely problematic aspects of this specific GZ’s claim which I will not be enumerating here, e.g. blood splatter, misalignments of the entry wound, etc.).

        Question

        If this GZ’s narrative is – according to the laws of physics – NOT possible and thus not believable, why on earth would you believe that GZ feared for his life? Pls. do not tell me you are not a supporter of GZ but rather asking questions and looking for answers (i.e. floating trial balloons to see what will stick). Just own up and make the case for GZ so that we can debate it.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          100% true. GZ supporters tend to ignore all that you have mentioned.

          Trayvon himself would not have been able to see the gun inside his waistband because his leg would have been in the way.

          From this mounted position, Trayvon would have had to reach behind his own booty to get the gun and not “slide his hand down GZ chest”.

          When confronted by the amount of space, suddenly Trayvon made a crevice with his body.

  77. i have a medical background Fogen did NOT have a concussion,no symptoms,therefore,his head was NOT banged on concrete,anyone who sez so Dr.,talking head or such is LYING,period the end

    • riisey007 says:

      I too am a medical professional and we both know that they are not consistent with having his head banged on cement. I guess a lot of people forget gow hard cement is and need to take a field trip outdoors to find the nearest side walk. Unless they have soft cement in Sanford, there is no way his head was slammed that many times and his pareital bones were still intact, cerebral fluid did not leak or any shifting occured. The area of the 2 cuts are the pareital bone area and that area controls sensory, ability to decipher things like counting, making out images and being able to reasonably speak. My father had strokes in this area and to this day he just busts out laughing for no reason. I find Zimmerman to be disgusting to have even suggested his head had been slammed that many times. It is just complete and udder bull crap!! one slam would render him unable to do much of anything assuming Martin was slamming as hard as he says. He is a freaking miracle.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        With nothing to grip during the slamming!

        Gosh, I hate him! I am trying to not, but for now, I do. My God will forgive me once he is found guilty, I will work at letting go of my anger towards him. Sorry if I sound hostile, but I still cry for Trayvon even though I have never met him personally. That could have been the child of anybody and I would still have these feelings regardless of race.

        • riisey007 says:

          I know it is bad to hate but when you look at all of the mocking her has done and his attorney’s along with all of the nasty comments from all these other blogs, etc. It is hard not to hate, I know better and I am trying to work on it but it is hard when you have a 16 year old son that you are scared that it could happen to as well. What is gonna happen if they set Zimmerman free and these other nuts decide that they can kill at will whomever they want because the law is on their side?!

  78. there was a book called THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME…a crazy man HUNTED HUMAN game.this is what happened to Trayvon,with one exception ,he did NOT survive the hunt (tears)

  79. silk says:

    Omara is getting away with a lot of garbage. Like with the (PA). That’s when picture comparisson should had came into play by BDLR! Its simple. Just like that.!! When ur in florida , its pretty hard to convence a jury with out objecting to a raciest defense.

    • RobertSF says:

      I agree that O’Mara is getting away with a lot. The professor said that “The PA is not a specialist in diagnosing and treating traumatic head wounds. Therefore, she was not the right person to question about the possible causes and severity of the defendant’s head wounds,” but that only means BDLR should have been on his feet, objecting to O’Mara’s questions!

      I realize O’Mara can bring in experts later, but the jury still got to hear from the PA, who had personally examined Zimmerman.

      • kllypyn says:

        A PHYSIANS ASSISTANT HAS NO REAL MEDICAL TRAINING.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          kelly says

          A PHYSIANS ASSISTANT HAS NO REAL MEDICAL TRAINING.

          that is not a true statement. they have more medical training than an RN, but less than a physician. they are fully capable of diagnosing, treating, and prescribing medications on their own without physician oversight. they do need a doc to sign off on narcotic scrpts.

          • kllypyn says:

            my mistake. i misread my research some how. i really need to by some glasses. i usually reread 2 or three times to make sure but this time i didn’t.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy- correct! Many clinics have maybe 2 or 3 MDs on staff and then like 7or 8 PAs. My main medical person is a PA and I trust her expertise. They are very knowledgable about family medicine and general practice.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

      • Rachael says:

        THAT is not true!!! OMG

      • Girlp says:

        @Fauxcoy, the PA in my doctor’s office has to have a MD review thier diagnois. I don’t know if that’s the law in my state or office policy. A PA has education an traing above a RN but she is not a nurologest nor is she trained in forensics. I’m betting BLDR has his experts ready to testify . Please excuse my spelling.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @GirlP

          this pa was not called for any reason other than to enter GZ’s medical records into evidence and to explain the non-severity of his wounds. her role was limited for the state’s very specific needs.

          there will be more medical experts called, we can count on that.

          • Nellie Nell says:

            Lindzee made it clear that the killer was only concerned with a “return to work note”! She also was there to introduce the MMA training that the killer had had 3 times a week for 6 months, right faux?

            That was brilliant! It is not wonder MOM was on his feet so fast! That was a piece of evidence that was kept under seal all this time!

          • O’Mara should not have been surprised by the references to MMA classes in the defendant’s medical records because he had a copy of those records.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yup. and now we know why — it is damning evidence indeed. the PA didn’t give up anything good for the state, that is for sure.

            i suspect the judge ruled against releasing his medications, but i do not imagine that will be a major issue. let the jury just chew on the fact he was seeing a psych.

            if the medical records are this damning, just think what his phone records are like.

      • riisey007 says:

        A physician assistant works under the direction of physicians, they can see patients, prescribe medicine and write orders along with a host of other things. Their schooling ranges from 6-8 years and they have to take the Mcat just like physicians to get into PA school. They must be employed by a physician due to them not being an M.D. but even with all that being said. She is not a specialist such as a neurologist, surgeon, or orthopedist. She can only testify to what she saw and did to Zimmerman that day. She had better be careful when answering questions about things that her license do not cover, it is very easy to lose them. I guard mine with my life.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I love my PA! If not for her, I would not have had a spinal fusion in May of 2012 after suffering for about 8 years going from one Dr to the next getting injections with no true diagnosis!

          I say hats off to PA’s!!! You guys rock!!!!

      • Rachael says:

        thank you riisey.

  80. PYorck says:

    They should call a trauma surgeon.

    My father was a surgeon and I grew up around lots of them. They tend to have a rather rustic view of health. As long as you have all your limbs and a pulse you are basically good to go. (Actual quote: “It is severe bleeding if you have to paint the ceiling afterwards.”)

    Ask someone like that about GZ’s cuts and the defense won’t like the answers much.

    • ay2z says:

      no doubt.

      Also, Chris Serino said he has seen it all, and by the time he interviewed gz about this subject, Serino had ‘consulted with several people’ (paraphrased but he said he did this, whether he did or not, I would assume he was telling fogen a consensus of not much damage– no skull fractures, that he didn’t suffer a lot of damage, etc).

      • Malisha says:

        Serino said, “capillary-type cuts or lacerations, not coincident with” a beat-down. IOW not serious. He said “coincident” and I think he meant “consistent.” WTH, maybe he can’t read cursive.

    • Xena says:

      @PYorck. O’Mara is trying to change law and medical science so that a punch in the nose, even one possibly breaking it, justifies the use of deadly force.

      He’s also trying to change the dynamics of mammals who cannot breath while swallowing. So in essence, GZ is a ventriloquist with fins.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      that reminds me painfully of growing up with my unflappable RN mother who spent many, many years working the burn unit (bless her!). no injury any kid on her watch received could elicit much of a response. i sliced my big toe open while washing her car — she scrubbed it with steel wool and castile soap to get the grease off and look at it. (we would have to drive 30 miles just to get someone to stitch it). she commented softly, to herself while holding a gaping wound, there’s the fat pad, oh, ok, there’s your metatarsal … ok, we’re going for stitches, just keep pressure on and your foot on the dashboard.

      as a mother, i am grateful because i too can keep calm while attending to some nasty wounds – way worse than old zimmie had.

      • disappointed says:

        I have stubbed my big toe on the side walk and my wound looked worse than his freaking lumpy bumpy head! Probably bled more too.

      • PYorck says:

        And that reminds me of the time he had slammed a car door on my finger and proceded to tell me that it didn’t really matter if it was broken because treatment for finger tip fractures was hardly worth the fuss. One way or the other I’d just have to wait. I wasn’t sure that was what I wanted to hear.

        (Turned out it wasn’t broken, just the nail smashed.)

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @pyorck

          sounds like home, friend 🙂

          my mother once made my 8 year old bro crawl for 3 days on a foot with 3 broken bones to go get his own aspirin. we could probably go on all night!

      • parrot says:

        Falling on concrete skins your knees. It will skin your scalp too.

      • elle says:

        When I was 4, I was swinging on the swing set like it was uneven bars (took gymnastics), and my father missed covering one of the screws. The screw split my skin, and my mother could see my skull. It only took five stitches to close my skin, But I was covered in blood, from head to toe. Covered. The neighbor boy carried me into the house, my mother thought I had to be dead there was so much blood. It was amazing how much blood there was, and it did not even phase me. I was fine. There was a trail of blood from the yard all the way down the hall across the dining room to the bathroom. There was not a millimeter of my clothes that was not full of blood. But, I was fine. Completely coherent.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        I was once hit in the nose with a hammer that my sister 2 years older was swinging back and forth while leaning on the wall with her left hand, arm straight. At 9 years old, I clearly remember her warning. “Watch out ya”ll because I am swinging this hammer!” That must have been the signal for me to get up from the basement floor and attempt to walk past her because that is exactly what I did, warning and all! BAM! The hammer caught the right side bridge of my nose, blood poured out of the gash and I remember being confused but awake. There was no broken bones, but the blood and the pain that I felt was scary. I remember that my right eye was blackened.

        I guess that kind sounds like a recoil that I have been hearing about guns except my nose bled from the gash and poured blood all the way to the floor.

        ER trip to the hospital, four stitches and the never ending giggles whenever we talk about that day is still fresh in my memory!

  81. crazy1946 says:

    I was talking to someone earlier (local supporter of the Fogdoit) and he seems to think that MOM will put the defendant on the stand. His reason is that he thinks the state will wait until just before they close to reveal who the Fogdoit called immediately after the shooting, he thinks he called Osterman, and I think he called Tim Smith. I guess at some point we will find out…

    • ay2z says:

      John (Jon– which is which?) who took the photos of gz with his phone in his right hand to his right ear, said he saw defendant with his right hand holding the phone to his right ear.

      John/Jon also said gz asked for him to call his wife, after in GZ’s stories, the officer told him he could not phone. The phone was dropped and John/jon picked it up and put it in his pocket. He may have used it for the call to SZ, or attempt to call her using it, maybe with ‘redial’. John/jon said he took his phone outside with him initially that night. Flashlight and phone.

      Clearly there was blood possibly on GZ’s hands and phone, up to his head, the photographer neighbor had to know that, yet he picked up GZ’s phone from teh ground and pocketed it.

      What this guy does, defies common sense, he should not trust his hands in blood of some stranger who just killed a boy he photographed. Unless he trusted the killer. (as the thumb in pants hooking cops did in the sally port0

      • ay2z says:

        the defense was unable to shake this John/Jon from his observation of gz being calm’, though they tried. In the end, the word ‘calm’ was reasserted. 🙂

      • crazy1946 says:

        Correct me if I heard wrong, but didn’t John/Jon say that the Fogdiot had the phone in his left hand and to his left ear talking to someone? Perhaps I heard wrong?

      • zhickel says:

        I might have misheard this; I was under the impression that Manolo picked up Zimmerman’s phone and put it into Zimmerman’s pocket.

      • ay2z says:

        YEs, that’s the ‘j’ I was referring to. Sorry if I got the name wrong, you are right.

      • bettykath says:

        Jon, the photographer, picked up fogen’s phone from the ground and put in fogen’s pocket. He used his own phone to call SZ with a number provided by GZ

      • @ crazy1946:

        Yes Manolo said *LEFT* hand *LEFT* ear

      • Cindy says:

        GZ threw phone on ground! Asian guy picked up phone put it in GZ pocket Asian guy made phone call to sheLIE with his own phone GZ told him the number! Asian guy took the photos!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I heard left hand to left ear.

      • aussie says:

        Well the published photo shows RIGHT hand and RIGHT ear.

        Film photos can be easily reversed by mistake, by printing the film wrong side up. Digital photos need to be deliberately flipped to reverse them.

        So either the picture was reversed or he’s remembering wrong.

        Not that it matters a lot, but….

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        In the published photo, it seems like his left hand is crossing over to his right ear. When Manola approached him, GZ turned around and squatted. He may have been transferring the phone from one ear to the of other. It looks to me GZ was trying to finish up his conversation, while hiding as much as possible from Jon.

        And for everyone who is critical about Jon’s actions, his photos are good for the prosecution. We have irrefutable evidence about where Trayvon’s body was after GZ got up, and that Trayvon’s hands were tucked in under his body.
        We have a photo showing the blood running to the front of his head, and GZ holding a phone to his ear, just 2 minutes after he shot Trayvon.

      • Aunt Bea says:

        This action would also indicate that Officer Smith allowed another person to approach, touch and converse with the person in cuffs. The “detainee”, at this point. Is that out of the norm?

        Hell, approaching someone in cuffs is what led to getting GZ hauled in during the ATF bust.

        NOBODY shooed photog Jon from the scene until long after media showed up. We see him standing at the “T” in some nes casts. Now that is NOT NORMAL!!!!!
        Anywhere, USA.
        Always separate the witnesses……

        I want to pour over every second of that on-scene media footage…..I think much could be gleaned from it.

        • amsterdam1234 says:

          We are not going to get that. It appears the prosecution has been restrained in using any evidence that would make the SPD look bad.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I think I remember him being inside the crime scene tape too. I am proud that he’d taken the pictures he did and then offer them to the police which I not sure he planned to do. I mean, who forgets they’ve taken pictures of a murder scene moments after it happens.

          I am curious, we know the time stamp on the lumpy head tree branch scratches (7:19) but did anyone get the time stamp on the flashlight or Trayvon’s photos?

      • Dave says:

        To clarify….

        Jonathan Manalo, who I believe is Filipino, was the photographer. He did say that he saw the killer holding the phone in his left hand to his left ear. He also said that he picked up GZ’s phone and put it in GZ’s pocket.

        Jonathan Good was the MMA guy.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Crazy — If indeed he called Tim Smith, that would explain why the officer approached the fight site without having his gun drawn, as per Sanford PD protocol. He already knew the killing was over and who did it. Of course someone else from the neighborhood also could have called him to convey the same news.

      • aussie says:

        NOT LIKELY.

        He’d have no way of knowing Smith was responding to the call. No point calling him if he’s not involved, eg maybe having a day off.

        By the time he got out of his cruiser, Smith would have had the information that GZ was involved (from the NEN call, which was the basis for Smith being sent there originally). He’d have a good idea the shooter was not going to be a danger to him.

      • Dave says:

        Ofc. Smith may have called GZ, having gotten his number from NEN per GZ’s request.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Or was it the “Could you have them call me when they are in the area and I will tell them where I am?” call back that he was expecting since he was not going to meet at his truck or the 1111 Clubhouse address that he’d given?

    • Dennis says:

      It looks suspicious if he calls anyone but Shellie to tell them what happened. If he called Osterman, it would appear he is trying to get information on how to get out of his murder predicament.

      Another thing is if you were really almost beaten to death, your primary concern should be getting medical attention, not making a phone call to your buttbuddy. LMFAO

    • riisey007 says:

      It is only fair that we get to see Zimmerman on the stand, he is the only living witness. I feel it is my GOD given right to see him on the stand and being cross examined by the prosecution. I would like Guy to be the one to cross examine him. O’mara knows Zimmerman can’t keep his story straight and he will become angered at the line of questioning thrown at him, he is so irritated with being there already and it shows all over his face. He has no remorse for killing Martin and it is time for him to face the music. O’mara is depending on prosecution to not prove their case and that is why it is important that prosecution brings it in these final weeks. We have all been following this case since the beginning and have basically put the case together. I swear a lot of you could go in the court room right now and win it, you guys rock!! So if this blog and the former blog that I contributed to has done all this work then they should most definately have the case wrapped up with a pretty little Zimmerman bow on top.

      • Dave says:

        You may have a God-given right to see the kiiller testify, but in this case the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution overrules the Creator.

  82. ay2z says:

    No coincidence. August 2011 is an important starting point for BDLR and his most excellent triad of Guy, Mantai and the ‘Bald Guy’ (no offense Bernie — you got style! 🙂

    (it is almost as if the state is put in the position of a defense team for the young the victim and they are clearly dedicated to this task as they bring the killer to justice in this case. Trayvon’s position was ‘defensive’, to run = avoid, to lose the craker (pervert) tailing him.

    Speculation about ‘the bushes hiding place, there are tall tree like bushes in the fronts of the houses along RVC.

    The 7 months prior to February 26, 2012– a mindset of wannabe cop and do-gooder, will reveal itself. No coincidence.

    (what we are seeing, seems to me, is the defense laying out it’s case in it’s detailed cross, with added cheating, speaking directly to the jury about their comfort, sneaking in speculation notions, triple barrelled questions. They get away with ringing bells, like the jury ‘are you ok, need a break ? comments, the cookie is stolen and a bite snatched, too late. The defense shows that it complies with JN, but does not take precautions to prevent these happenings, because they lack respect for this court, period.

    (BTW: I posted some while back about the NEN call by GZ with SZ in the background advising him of the suspect who was again, a young black teenager who SZ says matches the description of a burglar. In this call, heard in court this week, it’s so clear that the role of GZ’s big Rottweiler was his walking companion and personal protection role (if only deterrant) as his interest in patrolling with cop like ‘tools’.

    AS GZ waited for the NEN operator to return to him while he was on ‘hold’, we can hear what sounds like the dog getting a game of ball going, tossed ball sounds, and the dog’s ‘voice’ is heard early in the call, and later, the words in German, which are commands that many police K-9s are trained with, especially the German breeds, the “Aus! [pause] Aus!” is clearly a command repeated, to get the male dog to release it’s toy to fogen.

    MMA gym choices and firearms training with ex-cop air marshal (besides the academics of criminal justice courses and firearms permit), may not be the only training steps for ‘defense’ that GZ has taken, including police K9 basics with or without a professional trainer to guide him.)

    • ay2z says:

      And I hope that the Judge will allow the deposition of the criminal justice course taken by fogen, will be memorialized and the testimony taken if possible.

    • crazy1946 says:

      ay2z, You bring out some excellent points, thank you! Do you know (time wise) how this ties into his excuse of why he bought a gun, remember he claims he was told by a police officer to buy it for protection from his neighbors dog. Do we know which gun he bought first. and which one he used to qualify for his CCP? From what I have been told the one that he used to murder Trayvon would not have been a good one to use for the shooting part of the test.

      • ay2z says:

        Can’t help there. Without speculation, would be interesting to follow the killer’s actions leading up to his decision to get out and follow and stop this one from again ‘always getting away’. (whcih we know did NOT happen, the police did question people after that first and other calls. And there was an arrest, thanks to the stucco guys, when they saw someone leaving and later would know if an actual crime was or was not committed).

        Would be good to lay down a timeline of GZ actions that can be substantiated, documented in evidence.

        Plus of course, the ‘soft’ guy who would not strike with his nice clean hands or or grab sensitive places or pull a hooding down over a forehead, anything, had the ‘moxy’ to grab an undercover cop, big guy in plain clothes, to defend his drunk underage friend and he sure stood up verbally to that officer.

        Anger puts him into a new league, and life threatening should have done that too. And fear of this ‘suspicious’ person should also have kept him alert and on the phone until police arrived, especially if out of the car to find a street address (that’s a house number, even if Lauer doesnt’ think so).

      • Dennis says:

        @ay2x

        Fogen is screwed because he mentioned in one of his fairy tales that he was trying to stay in close proximity to Trayvon. He didn’t say a thing in that version about looking for an address. He basically admitted he was following the victim on foot, no other way to interpret that one.

  83. crazy1946 says:

    I still have full faith in the American Justice System, however I do not have a lot of faith in the Banana Republic of Florida’s Justice System. I truly think that the team of attorneys that have been appointed by AC to prosecute the Fogidiot are top notch and are doing a fantastic job of laying out the case, I trust the jury to do what is right, but if it was not taking place in the state that it is, I would relax a lot more than I am now…

  84. silk says:

    Idk. I really feel that bernie needs to argue more. I mean common every 1, the broken nose photo is fake . It dosent take a 5th grader to see that. The other thing is (gz) mma gym thing. If I was bernie , I would cross the scope!!! I mean , it would be ball game. Gz studied mma. Bdlr needs to open that door. Witch could impeech (w6). Statement. Forgive me professor , but what is bernie doing?? Its a simple case.

    • Xena says:

      I’m not the professor, but Bernie cannot impeach State witnesses. Now, if the defense decides to call those same witnesses is when Bernie will take action like shooting fish in a barrel.

      The prosecution is strategically presenting the dots. As Corey said at the press conference when charging GZ, “bit of evidence by bit of evidence.” The prosecution next connects the dots. At closing, the prosecution tells the jury what it proves.

      The only bad thing I see happening at trial is that they have a transcriber who acts like she can only understand White witnesses.

      • diary73 says:

        Can he declare a witness a hostile witness and then impeach him/her?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That annoyed the heck out of me. Rachel Jeantel is not hard to understand. Sometimes she speaks softly.

      • SearchingMind says:

        There is NO rule that says that a prosecutor/lawyer cannot impeach his/her own witness. In Federal Courts and most States of the Union, a prosecutor/lawyer may impeach his/her own witness.

        This is not allowed in a FEW States of the Union. However, a prosecutor/attorney in such States who is (suddenly) confronted with an uncooperative witness on the stand will certainly request permission to treat that witness as a hostile witness and move to impeach him/her (if the reasons to do so are present). There are other reasons a prosecutor/attorney would want to impeach a witness he himself called.

    • Dennis says:

      It has to be fake. Nobody has a nose that swollen when it is not broken and no blood is coming from the nostrils. I don’t see why the prosecution isn’t doing anything about that. If you can find experts that prove the photo is doctored, why not have the defense lawyers disbarred for entering in phony evidence? No lawyer should be allowed to enter in falsified evidence without consequences.

      • cielo62 says:

        Denis- even though we may all justifiably believe it to be shopped, that would put the SPD under the microscope. I don’t think they are willing to go there. So they just accept it and move on. Sux, tho.

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

      • Dave says:

        It’s perspective distortion that comes from taking a closeup photo with a wide angle lens. If you have a cheap digital camera or cellphone with a camera, you can experiment . Get a cooperative model and photograph him/her with the camera close enough that his/her face fills theviewfinder. (Don’t use digital zoom.) The result will show the same sort of distortion.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      The gym instructor will give more details about his training. Bernie introduced via another witness that he had been training for 6 months already before using his skill on a teenaged boy.

      • riisey007 says:

        They better call his MMA trainer because if they don’t they will have missed a big opportunity. It confirms GZ on top becasue John stated MMA type hand movements. We know Martin did not have any such training so who would be likely to be doing that?!! Mr. Good when making his deposition was doing this in favor of Zimmerman but little does he know,Zimmerman is the one who studied it. I am curious as to why John would say MMA out of the blue, did he train as well? or is this what Zimmerman told him to say not thinking that this would eventually go to court. They are hiding a lot of information about that night.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          I totally agree that they were trying to hide a ton of information and Good still seems to be on that page. Despite GZ knowing everyone in his neighborhood as he stated, I do not think he knew these people. Good could not have been 1 foot in and 1 foot out of the sliding glass door or Jenna would not have been able to see him from her enclosed patio and the partition that divides the units. That mean that he had to be outside in the grass past the partition. He knows that GZ was on top and who was screaming for help. During his 911 call after the shot, he came pretty close to saying that the guy screaming for help is dead.

          • riisey007 says:

            I see you caught that too. Good seem t otry his hardest to be evasive on the stand. I believe Zimmerman told him to say MMA and he went along with it because Martin was supposedly a thief and trying to break into houses. I dont give a rats butt what my neighbor tells me, If I find a dead body in the backyard and he is standing there with it, I am singing like a canary to the cops.

  85. I’m looking forward to the presentation of the forensic evidence…the trajectory of the bullet, the position of the weapon when it was fired, the fact they were 40 feet from the street & forgen’s vehicle.

    it will all add up.

    I agree with whoever said that they have faith in the State, but perhaps not so much with the jury. I’m hopeful that they are taking this seriously. Because, if they are: then they know that fogen is guilty as sin.

    • Judy75201 says:

      “…the fact they were 40 feet from the street & forgen’s vehicle.”

      This is new to me (but I can’t claim to know all of the evidence). 40 feet is the length of two car garages. fogen’s vehicle was that close to the murder?

      • parrot says:

        Trayvon’s body was about 40 feet south of where the sidewalks form the “T”.

        IIRC, the vehicle was about 200 feet from the “T”.

      • aussie says:

        We don’t know exactly where the vehicle was but it was not off-road. So the closest it could have been was where the top path (the top of the T) starts. Which is at least another 60 ft or so from the T itself. From all the various statements and timings and measurements, it would have been probably 80 to 100 ft further along Twin Trees Lane than where the path starts, but we have no evidence of it at all.

        • blushedbrown says:

          @Aussie

          There is a witness to where GZ parked his vehicle. Eloise Delegard. Her name was mentioned at trial, not sure of the spelling but it was said a couple of times.

      • KittySP says:

        Actually, don’t know if anyone recalls, on cross of Ofc. T. Smith, MOM made a point of asking approx how many feet from where he entered from the south end of the T did he encounter GZ. He and MOM both agreed it was at least 30-40 ft.

      • Aunt Bea says:

        Not sure this will end up.

        Yes, Kitty, I caught the “south” end of the T comment. No one corrected the misstatement that I heard.. Forever on record now. Not sure if that was what you were getting at, though.

        Was interesting to learn that Officer Smith directed his cruiser’s spot light from the south end and saw at least one figure on the pathway.
        Nobody else noticed the spotlight from way down there , I guess.

  86. kllypyn says:

    They keep showing that ridiculous picture of the back of zimmerpunks head,as picture which is obviously doctored. Zimmerpunki had no horizontal cuts on thew back of his head and his lawyers know that. They are trying to pull a fast one. they should use the ones taken at the police station.

    • willisnewton says:

      I’ve seen no evidence that photo is fake.

      It documents that the bleeding was already slowed to a tiny trickle moments after the injury may have occurred.

      Although sadly impossible to prove in court it looks to me like GZ ran into a tree while he was hunting his prey and this angered him.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Kelly,
      @Everyone! Everyone! Everyone!
      @MountainManPat

      Please go to: friendsofharvey.wordpress.com

      and read:

      “Could this be the REAL cause of #Zimmerman’s head injuries? #ZimmermanTrial #J4TM”

      Look at the first and second large photos of the back-of-the-head wounds on Zimmerman at SPD after he washed up.

      The two SHALLOW “lacerations” are highlighted. Remember, they needed no sutures. The “close up” is photo #2.

      Each of those two horrendous near-fatal wounds is SMALLER than 1/4 of a postage stamp.

      Not a large commemorative stamp – less than 1/4 of a small, garden variety, ordinary ever-day stamp.

      I’m asking our resident philatelist, MountainManPat, to confirm this.

      THANKS!

      (And yes, after Z washed up, he picked at them to make them bleed again. Didn’t accomplish much.)

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Good read.
        Here is the nose photo from your link, PiranhaMom:

        http://friendsofharvey.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/zimmerman-nose.jpg?w=300&h=139

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I will let everyone go to the link for the back of head photos and discussion.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @PiranhaMom
        PM, I checked the link but FOH has not “stamped” the “two lacerations” noted by the PA rather wounds supporting their theory; a theory I absolutely concur with, i.e. that GZ ran into one of the low crown trees either at the T or on RVC, bumping his nose on a larger branch while being scratched in the face and sides by smaller ones, and which is why when taken together the scratches imo have a “windswept” look, i.e. all go in the same direction.

        So we are clear on the lacerations the PA noted, (iirc, she only noted lacerations as abrasions are not sewable) one horizontal, one vertical. FOH stamps the small round abrasion near the crown next to the horizontal laceration noted by the PA, and a tiny angled flare at the top of the vertical laceration noted by the PA which falls exactly below it.

        In respect of what appears to be two puncture wounds under the tip of the nose, and which form a part of my “windswept” look, they do not rule out, as FOH appears to imply, GZ being hit on another part of the nose as well, i.e. on the bridge, nor that his nose was not bleeding from within. I broke my nose against the steering wheel in a very minor car accident years ago and although I had no external wound the blood from inside my nose was extremely profuse.

        Probably none of this was important as your comments are still valid but, imhaho (ao= and honest), with forensic experts soon to appear it could be wise to clarify to ensure we are referring always to the same things in order to avoid confusion.

        I loved your dissertation the other day and hope to comment on it but just haven’t found the time yet.

    • gbrbsb says:

      @killypyn
      The defence strongdidstrong use the photos taken at the police station throughout the questioning of the PA, and GZ strongdidstrong have a tiny horizontal laceration near the crown, separated by about a centimetre from a roundish abrasion.

      The photo taken by JM from after the melee shows blood which may be what confuses you because there is nothing to indicate it has been “doctored”. The blood cascading in runs from a more or less a straight line does not indicate the length of the cut, but is the result of the horizontal cut with the small abrasion further to the right the blood from both of which is pooling on a skull ridge where it accumulates until it overflows and cascades down in runs. The best photos in which to see the cut (I never found them on axioamnesia so forgive the source, but I did see these very photos used by MOM to question the PA on Friday, is on Dman’s photobucket. Check out photos Nos. 92 & 95 on which you can see the cut.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Sorry about the “strongdidstrong” x twice. I was trying to make “did” bold but for reasons uknonwn, they didn’t come out but part of the code remained. I could have sworn I properly used the code, i.e. “less than + more than” at the beginning and “less than + forward slash + more than” at the end, so mea culpa or wordpress, who knows ?

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @gbrbsb:

        Dman’s photobucket #93 is perfect!

        I had an L-shaped laceration to the front of my scalp during my late teens on the farm – roughly .75″ x .75″ that did not lift up a flap – merely two short lines at right angles. Blood cascaded over my face, shoulders and the front of my smock, although I felt zero pain. I’ve always had lots of fibrinogen, so it clotted within the first hour but I was a spectacle (one woman fainted when she saw me).

        I have been thinking that if I were giving the closing arguments for the prosecution I would show up that morning with the back of my head shaved flat to the top, and I’d be wearing a pristine white linen pantsuit. When it came time to discuss Zimmerman’s injuries, I’d turn around and say:

        “Earlier on the night that Trayvon Martin was killed by a 9mm hollow-point bullet fired by the defendant, as he has admitted,
        a hollow-point bullet that tore apart Trayvon’s heart and lung, the defendant also incurred two – count ’em, two – injuries to the back of his shaved head.

        “These scalp “injuries,” although they bled copiously, because, as Dr. ________ from the trauma unit of University of Florida Hospital testified, the scalp is a vascular surface chock-full of capillaries.

        “As the Medical Examiner testified, these shallow scalp wounds could not have come from the hands of Trayvon Martin during the struggle, IN ANY WAY, because, as the Medical Examiner testified, there is zero amount of George Zimmerman’s blood on the deceased Trayvon Martin’s hands, zero amount of George Zimmerman’s blood on the deceased Trayvon Martin’s sleeves, and zero amount of George Zimmerman ‘s blood on the cuffs of the deceased Trayvon Martin’s shirts. All of this was certified at the autopsy. You have seen the evidence.

        “But, at some point during the wrestling on the ground, for which the defendant, George Zimmerman had practiced his Mixed Martial Arts skills for NINE intensive hours EVERY WEEK for the preceding SIX months at the Kokopelli Gym, during that scuffling on the ground witnessed, as you heard, by by John Good, the defendant would have sustained what can only be described as “environmental injuries” from a bare tree limb or shrub, a sprinkler head in the grass, a scrape on the dog walk.

        “While “the environment” is not on trial here, it resulted in two small cuts to the back of the defendant’s head, the result of which witness Jonathan Manalo, photographed. This is the photo here, on the screen; next to it is the photograph taken by Sanford Police Department later that night after the defendant washed up, which reveals the two shallow cuts.

        “The blood flow as you saw in Witness Manalo’s photo is dramatic. The cuts, however – neither needing sutures, as testified by Lezlee Folger, the physician’s assistant he saw the next day – as she testified. ONLY to get a “return to work” permission slip required by his employer. She further testified that Mr. Zimmerman refused any further examinations by specialists, refused X-rays, despite his claims that his head somehow was “smashed into the sidewalk.”

        “So let us see how serious these head cuts were – one 3/4 of an inch, one 3/8 of an inch – as my associate here makes matching cuts on the back of MY shaved head. (assistant steps forward with scalpel as I turn my back to the jury so they can see the cuts).

        “THERE. Didn’t feel a thing, but yes, it’s going to get sticky, so like the defendant, I would have had to ask the witness, Joe Manalo, am I bleeding? Yes, indeedy – watch it flow.

        “In a minute I’ll ask my associate to step forward with a towel, apply pressure to the back of my scalp, and stop the bleeding.

        Now, the EMT cleaned up the defendant while he sat in the patrol car prior to his transport to Sanford Police Department. Officer Tim Smith testified there was NO blood in the back of the vehicle after this transport. While the recommendation was to keep these wounds open and clean, there was the option – repeat, option – of applying bandages.

        “What bandages would the defendant need? I have here, as I show you, a box of Johnson & Johnson “Hello Kitty” children’s Band Aids – 20 to a box, costing $3.55. It includes two sizes – each perfect for the defendant’s shallow scalp cuts. The 3/4″ “Hello Kitty child’s Band Aid would fit the defendant’s 3/4″ cut perfectly, and the 5/8” mini-size “Hello Kitty” child’s Band-Aid, while it would overwhelm the defendant’s smaller wound, would have to do, because the mini-size “Hello Kitty” is the SMALLEST size Band Aid that Johnson and Johnson makes.

        “So – two child band aids out of a box of 20 would give the defendant all the coverage he would need, at a cost of 35 and one half cents.

        “So much for the defendant’s “environmental injuries” to the back of the head. And now that my associate has stopped the blood flow from MY scalp, I’ll take two “Hello Kitty” Band Aids, too. Thank you.

        “As jurors, the community looks to you to be fair, impartial and REASONABLE people. With this charge against the defendant, you are asked to consider if a REASONABLE person would be “in fear for his life.”

        “I ask you: would two scalp cuts needing, at most, two child-size “Hello Kitty” Band Aids, put a REASONABLE fear for his life into a defendant who had trained in Mixed Martial Arts for NINE intensive hours each week for SIX months before tracking down this victim, and who outweighed young Trayvon Martin by 49 lbs – a victim who had no weapon AT ALL, while the defendant had a FULLY LOADED semi-automatic pistol in his waistband, with nine 9mm hollow-point bullets, with one ALREADY IN THE CHAMBER – would it be REASONABLE for this defendant to “fear for his life?”

        “Members of the jury, I leave this decision to your sense of reason …

        “Now, on to the blood flow from the front of the defendant’s face … ”

        (To Team Leatherman: saving the Kel-Tek recoil for the next report.)

        • dianetrotter says:

          One interesting statement he made about going to get an address had a comment on one of the sites we were directed to. going to get an address – he was following TM to where he was saying so he could get an address; in other words, he was not an intruder but a resident/visitor and had reason to be in Twin Lakes.

        • KA says:

          I am not sure of cutting Bernie’s scalp, but I completely agree with the Hello Kitty Bandaid argument and the breaking down of the actual injuries with close ups, minus the initial blood.

        • cielo62 says:

          PirahanaMom~ I am SO IN AWE of you!! LOVED this! I doubt Bernie would allow his pate to be scalped in such manner, but I LOVE the “hello Kitty” bandaids! How ELSE to indicate quite clearly that the cuts are small and shallow? LOL! PS I have these in my classroom. Not very big at all. 🙂

          ________________________________

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Cielo –
            @KA –
            @Dave –

            Right, Cielo, and it’s only the tiny pad part of the “Hello Kitty” kid-size Band-Aids that cover Zimmerman’s pitiful boo-boos.

            How about we invent a version with a computer sound chip installed that lies and whines when you apply it? We could call them “Hello Georgie” kid-size Band Aids …

            Incidentally, I didn’t plan to apply the scalpel to BDLR (his fan club here would kill me).

            This was my Wilma Mitty dream: “I have been thinking that if I were giving the closing arguments for the prosecution I would show up that morning with the back of my head shaved flat to the top, and I’d be wearing a pristine white linen pantsuit.”

            As Professor Fred would tell us, this would get me thrown right of court.

            But do you think we could get Bernie to wear two “Hello Kitty” kid-size Band Aids (without slicing into him), before the jury?

            Hmmmm …

      • Dave says:

        At least Bernie wouldn’t have much to shave.

    • tonydphotog says:

      I firmly believe that every photo the defense shows is doctored. I’m experienced in Photoshop, and I’ve seen manipulations in every photo the defense has shown.

      In pretty much every photo of Fogen, he’s manipulated to look thinner. That, alone, shows the photos have been manipulated. Notice his double chin is missing in most of the photos? I even noticed this in his fake “graduation” pictures.

      The bloody nose photo, please don’t get me started!

      • Nellie Nell says:

        I thought the photos were doctored to, but they are state exhibits. I also went back and looked at the photos online at Axiom Amnesia, sadly the lumps are there. However, I think they are a result of a lumpy head that he has naturally. In my 46 years I just can not recall an injury that swelled later on some hours later with no immediate swelling at all. I can’t even say that I have had swelling that went away in 12 to 14 hours even with R.I.C.E. While I do know that everyone responds differently to pain from injury, I find it hard to believe that swelling went down to the point where Lindzee did not notice them with concern.

        I think Livingston has given important testimony just as Mr. Manalo which was that the killer was normal and casual. That he had normal vitals and was on his phone after shooting the kid in the heart killing him dead. That is a cold blooded killer that need not be on any streets anywhere ever.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Sorry I did not finish my thought about Lindzee. She had no concern because that is the shape of his head so it was normal and not documented. Funny how he did not tell her that the sides of his head nor the top of his head was banged on the sidewalk. He was only concerned about his scratches at the time. Because the knots are on both sides of his head I am even more convinced it is natural. That flesh gathering in the nape area is also natural. As for the bump on the top of his head, that would not come from being on your back getting your head banged. I am sure an expert will touch on that.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        Especially the one looking at the right top, if you adjust the contrast all kinds of weird things can come up . When you look at the hair surrounding the “abrasions” there is a kind of glow instead of detail, they certainly messed with it, unless it is in the projector?

      • tonydphotog says:

        I just noticed that the photo shown on Axiom Amnesia (24/55) has since been manipulated. Fogen’s face, in the one used in court, is narrower. I took into account that it may display differently from a projector, or whatever is being used, but while the face is narrower, the shadows around the face stay the same. My guess is it’s to make the nose appear to be more swollen, which is what caught my eye in the first place.

        The PA even made the comment that it looks completely different than seeing it in person.

        • vickie s. votaw says:

          Also the more generations, changing formats sometimes , I’d guess, it can’t help but change

  87. PiranhaMom says:

    @Professor Fred –

    Can the defense use the kamikaze attack of simply resting their case after the prosecution’s round of witnesses? If so, does this deny the prosecution the right to make its closing argument?

    I am worried that the defense (which has no actual “defense” prepared) will try some trick at an early stage of the trial, to prevent the prosecution from bringing in all its evidence (assuming the prosecution has a game plan that assigns its blockbuster revelations to specific stages of the process).

    Right now I expect there’s some confusion within the jurors’ minds. They need the full report on this tragic, diabolic killing.

    Unless they get that full report, there won’t be Justice For Trayvon.

    Please advise. Thank you.

    • willisnewton says:

      Same question!

      That’s a good descriptive word for the potential defense strategy – the kamakazi defense of resting after the prosecution finishes calling witnesses.

      If the prosecution strategy is to wait for rebuttal to make some big points they need to change it.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      am not the professor, but the defense cannot do much until the prosecution rests. yes, they could choose to not put on a defense and will likely move for acquittal when the prosecution rests. such acquittal will likely not be granted by the judge and not putting on a defense seems spectacularly stupid, but they could do so.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Faux –

        Thanks!

        Fauxy, I agree that JDN would have to be smoking loco weed to grant an acquittal.

        Does this mean that the prosecution then segues into its closing argument and the defense must remain silent?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @pmom

          that question, i cannot answer.

          although such acquittal is often requested, but rarely granted. i do not recall seeing such a case in my lifetime so i do not know what happens.

      • parrot says:

        I’ve never seen prosecutors leave the best evidence for rebuttal.

        Once the two sides rest, they present closing arguments.

        I believe the defense can give closing arguments even if they do not call witnesses.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @parrot who says

          I’ve never seen prosecutors leave the best evidence for rebuttal.

          parrot, you were responding to me, but i want to clarify that i never said that ‘prosecutors leave the best evidence for rebuttal’. i do not believe they would, on the off chance that there would be no opportunity.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Criminal Trial: Sequence of Events

      I. Opening statement by the State (brief summation of the evidence and what it will show);

      II. Opening statement by the defense (defense claims defendant is not guilty of the charged crime and that the evidence will show that);

      III. Prosecution presents its case in chief (prosecution introduces key evidence via testimony of witnesses and exhibits entered as evidence, etc.; the defense cross-examines witness and challenges prosecution evidence; prosecution re-directs; prosecution rests its case in chief);

      IV. Defense moves to dismiss/Motions for a Judgment of acquittal (and finding of immunity from prosecution) claiming that preponderance of evidence supports self-defense/the prosecution has failed to present sufficient evidence to support a guilty verdict; GZ will NOT take the stand;

      V. Motion Denied!

      VI. Defense presents its case in chief (i.e. calls witnesses and introduces other forms of evidence to prove defendant’s innocence; prosecution cross-examines defense witnesses and challenges presented evidence in the process; defense re-directs):

      VII. GZ testifies (I DON’T think so); Prosecution cross-examines GZ; defense rests its case in chief;

      VIII. Prosecution rebuts defense case (prosecution may call additional witnesses, introduce more evidence, recall already called witnesses, etc.); prosecution rests its rebuttal;

      IX. Closing argument by defense (defense enumerates and summarizes the evidence, connects the dots and concludes that the defendant is innocent);

      X. Closing argument by prosecution (defense enumerates and summarizes the evidence, connects the dots, rips defense’s closing argument apart and concludes that the defendant is innocent);

      XI. Jury instruction (JN explains the elements of crime to the jury; JN instructs the jury that they must find the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt for each element; JN explains what constitutes guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; JN instruct the jury that the aggressor cannot claim self-defense and that exceptions to that rule does not apply in this case. if jurors find that GZ was the aggressor they must find him guilty; if jurors find that GZ’s stories are not credible, they must also find him guilty;

      XII. Case is sent to the jury; Jury retires to deliberate; Jury reaches verdict and the Court is informed;

      XIII. Court reconvenes; verdict is read; GZ is handcuffed immediately; Jurors polled (West and O’Mara will demand that); JN thanks and dismisses Jurors, and sets aside an agreed upon date for sentencing.

      If e.g. the defense chooses not to present a case, then the parties will move on to the next stage.

  88. My Forehead Tho says:

    “O’Mara pulled off a pretty good smoke-and-mirrors cross, but in the end there wasn’t anything there.”

    Exactly, he could have asked anybody with common sense if a bump on the head could possibly be the result of it hitting a hard surface.

    Somebody here suggested this earlier and I agree, BDLR should show pictures of bald or shaved heads to show how naturally bumpy some people’s heads are.

    In fact, one can just search “bald heads” on Google images and see celebrities who’s bald heads look shocking similar to Zimmermans.

    • disappointed says:

      we need mug shots. front, back and side views. He still had little hair in that photo. I think when they decided to go with knots and bumps they told him to grow his hair out to hide his disgusting head.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i am sure the defense told him to grow his hair for a number of reasons – one of them being that they did not want their client looking like a skin head.

      • KA says:

        I think they should break down the injuries with close ups one by one. The scratches on his head…no DNA in Trayvon’s nails.

        The nose…two pin holes at the tip…the red dot, wrong side of the nose for a right handed “sucker punch.

        Take the defenses big photos and narrow down to each injury, close up, with no blood. Have a medical professional comment on how swelling can be near nonexistent in an hour or so, etc…

    • smokeegyrl says:

      When he mentioned that… I was wondering if he was going to say his for example.. lol

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I do think he has a lumpy head which is why the hair has been grown in. Bernie had cleared up the different shapes of knot heads!

      Lindzee was able to remind the jury that there were abrasions or scratches. But there was nothing so serious that sutures were needed. The only documented injuries to the head were the 2 scratches. The lumps are not consistent with being on your back and having your head being banged on the sidewalk. The lumps are on both sides of the head and on the top of the head would not occur if on your back.

      The gravity of the blood…… would that be the same gravity pulling the blood down and to the front of his face? And how much blood does he want people to believe was swallowed? She also mentioned the “the amount of trauma sustained” could possibly yada yada yada……..

      There is more to come and so far I have seen MOM lumpy killer head pictures too many times already. With Lindzee he held up those pictures 5 times and that does not include the time when he stood there looking at it for about 5 seconds before moving to his next question. I am sick of those 2 pathetic pictures already and perhaps the jury is too!

      • disappointed says:

        Me too! I do not want the Martin/Fulton family tortured but I think it is time to show the jury those photos of Trayvon with every witness. I do not care if it is the phone company witness. Pull out the photo and ask if they know what a bullet will do to the heart if they must. Wonder which one the jury will remember? Bumpy Fogen or deceased Trayvon.

      • KittySP says:

        about the knotty knots, lumpy-bumps…GZ says in reenactment that Trayvon only has “small portion” of his head on the concrete, then to keep from passing out from the partial head banging on concrete, he did the shimmy-shimmy shake on to the grass. So no way he got all them knots if only small portion of his head was on the concrete.

        Has LLMPapa done video of GZ with just him doing his “swatting off” and “grass shimmy”? Would love to see that.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Great catch! I just watched that video again KittySP and you are so right. The small portion of the head on the concrete and the quick shimmy would not produce lumps on both sides of the head and/or the top of the head. Forget the fact that Trayvon would have had to grip that lumpy dome with both hands yet there was no DNA on him. Working out at the gym MMA style 3 times a week for 6 months, I am sure that the killer would have used the strength of his neck muscles to prevent his head from banging anyway which would have produced scratching at the grip to leave skin and flesh under Trayvon’s young fingernails.

        I am not sure why so many people are so worried about evidence that disproves self defense. Everything seems to be going well for the state. I see the case building against the killer and so does his fans that has been repeating the same BS for over a year now. I bet the N word is being thrown around more than ever at this point as they watch their hero sinking.

        J4T

  89. Sequestration order applies to jurors.

  90. Trained Observer says:

    Professsor Leatherman — Apart from the open court knock-knock, what can you say about the image of West and his daughter(s?) licking soft serve ice cream cones, bragging about overcoming “stupid” … ?

    Isn’t it time for JN to issue a gag order — no pun intended?

    • disappointed says:

      TO – I know you asked Professor but can I please give my 2 cents also?

      Apart from the open court knock-knock, what can you say about the image of West and his daughter(s?) licking soft serve ice cream cones, bragging about overcoming “stupid” … ?

      They overcame stupid to be ignorant and classless.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @TO, I think it would kinda of be like too little too late but, it will at least keep O’dirty off the night time talk shows. after all, it’s bad enough that we have to watch him in the courtroom during the day and, it’s just downright punishment to have to look at his ugly mug at night as well.

      Both he and Pest could use the Botox look

  91. disappointed says:

    I dread the defense closing arguments. It will go on for days. Twisting and lying some more just to save a man who has accomplished nothing in his lifetime. Bottom of graduating high school class, dead end jobs, did not graduate college, did not pay bills, did not own home, borrowed money, assaults undercover police officer, kicks dog, beats ex girlfriend and shoots an unarmed teen.
    Also 1 other thing about this class really bothers me. SOME people hated Arias’s Attorney for degrading Travis. Yet these same folks love MOM. He can do no wrong and so on. People like this make me SICK! I would bet my life Travis would not agree with smearing the victim (Trayvon) in this case either. Go ahead and defend this man, it shows me who you are. When you keep saying you are not racist it just tells me you ARE. It also makes me wonder if you hate all children or just this 1.

    • disappointed says:

      *class meant — case 2nd paragraph

    • Ms.X says:

      The things that REALLY bothers me are that gz MURDERED a kid & that our system is tangentially concerned with justice. gz doing no time because he lucked into private attorneys is NOT justice. gz being acquitted will not be justice. Him making a quarter of a million dollars from killing any human is definitely not justice. The $ must still be flowing because we haven’t seen omara trying to claim he’s indigent. If gz were texting & driving, ran over Trayvon & killed him, he would at least get manslaughter. High profile cases are really more theater than a quest for justice. Before I stopped watching HLN in protest of them paying avowed racist frank taffy, it occurred to me how much these trials are like the Hunger Games. The media has turned the pain & misery of this family into an entertainment event.

      • disappointed says:

        Mrs X please do not think that does not bother me or piss me off. Fogen had no right to take a child from their parents. I am just tired of all the love for MOM when the defense for Jodi did the same and he was scum.
        With that said believe me, I have not lost focus on this case. I know the pain the parents will live with for the rest of their lives. Yes the rest of their lives. Not for a year or two but forever. Never to see their child graduate h.s. or college, get married have babies or to just age. It is a daily, weekly, monthly and yearly pain.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Ms. X, I agree with everything you posted. Except that it might be over half a million dollars given, donated, gifted to the murderer of a youth. Where are human morals? The “defense” team issued false press releases one after another for a year, and their propaganda experiment makes me (and everyone else here) seethe. The murderer might go to jail, but the publicity-stunt-as-defense method is now well-established in Florida, and we may see more cases like this.

      • riisey007 says:

        Don’t forget Zimmerman is suing NBC for the edited 911 calls. You know O’mara is waiting to get his hands on the money. They are actually gonna take it to trial.

        • cielo62 says:

          Riisey- the case will be dropped as soon as GZ is pronounced guilty. It’s no mistake that the case was postponed until after this trial. MOM et al thought they’d get a nice little shush-shush settlement but NBC refused to play or pay. Nothing will come of that lawsuit.

          FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • disappointed says:

            I never understood the lawsuit anyway. They may have edited for time BUT at one point in the NEN call Fogen says he is running and he is baalack. Not prompted that time so either way he is just as wrong as NBC. IMO NBC did nothing but do what news station do, make the time frame work.

          • riisey007 says:

            O’Mara took GZ case thinking he could get his name out there and make him some money. Too bad he still has not made a dime..poor him!! I bet those first set of lawyers are thankful for chump O’Mara.

      • aussie says:

        This will be BEFORE closing arguments.

        When the prosecution case is finished, the defence has the chance to tell the court that the prosecution has not made out a case, therefore it should be dismissed without the defence having to put on their side.

        When the judge says NO, then they have to do their side. Then there’s closing arguments at the end of that.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      what is critical to remember is that in closing arguments, the prosecution speaks last. that will be the last thing the jury hears.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        This makes me feel even better!

      • Dennis says:

        They better do much better than the Casey Anthony trial. That closing statement was such a joke.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          did not watch — too busy attending to a dying father.

          even at 80 and of relatively sound mind, though suffering hideous pain, he saw CNN for the first time in a rest home. he asked me if that was ‘that trashy woman who killed her own child’ and he was generally very good about not condemning anyone to guilt if not found so by jury.

      • Dennis says:

        @fauxmccoy

        Have you seen this old guy on youtube called the Angry Grandpa? Here is him watching the verdict being read. He is so outraged he almost gives himself a heart attack. Hilarious video.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          well he swears almost as competently as my own dearly departed father.

        • ay2z says:

          I didn’t watch this, as I had too much of that case and trial to want to add someone else’s frustration at that point. If anyone feels the need for a bit of comic relief aftet htat, to move along with a smile, here’s something.

      • Dennis says:

        @fauxmccoy

        Sorry I forgot to mention parental advisory for that video. That guy is a little old and senile, plus he is from the south so don’t hold it against him. LOL

      • disappointed says:

        Dennis I nearly choked to death watching the old guy in video! I feel his pain but omg. 😉

      • ladystclaire says:

        That little old man is off the chain but, he’s got a point.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        This video made me laugh at first but as it went on I felt really sad. I did not watch the trial, but I was sure that she was guilty of killing her baby from the information that I had heard from the mouths of her very own parents. It also saddens me to know that in America anything goes.

        Fogen, though, will not be so lucky. I refuse to let anything less than guilty enter my brain.

  92. Trained Observer says:

    I prefer my possible fish battered and fried. I believe BLDR and team have a classic recipe.

  93. crazy1946 says:

    I think that Monday morning at 08:30 in Sanford Florida there will be a very interesting motion and hearing. My gut tells me that the foolish move by Mr. West and his spawn will cause Judge Nelson to finally put a gag order in effect. Wow, just think of what that will do to MOM, no longer will he be able to communicate with the legions of racist supporters of the Fogdoit, this will stop him from being able to appeal for donations to sustain his hate campaign! Now for those of you who are making excuses for Mr. West on this photo posting issue, please look at the photo again, you will see that it is West himself that is taking the photo with “his” phone. only if he then sent the photo to his spawns phones could they have done this without his knowledge, and remember he testified in court (under oath) that he had no knowledge of how computers and things like that work and did not even know how to use one. Strange that a man who knows so little about a computer can touch type on a laptop!
    One more thing that needs to be addressed is that the other day I noticed (and made a comment on here) that the Fogdoit had checked his phone and put it into his left shirt pocket, perhaps I am overly suspicious, but I think he is connected to someone and live broadcasting the trial, his family? Professor if he is/was doing this would it be a violation of Judge Nelson sequestration ruling as it applies to the witnesses?

    • Dave says:

      Would it matter? They can always wtch the trial on tv or the internet like the rest of us.

      • ay2z says:

        As witnesses listed by both state and defense, the Z’s must not watch the trial tesimony before they are released from tehir subpoena’s.

        Not saying they are ethical people and wouldn’t cheat. They have that rep friend sitting in the front pubic row every day, he could pass along information, technically that’s not watching or listening and he’s already performed for SZ, the little stunt to get the victim’s father shut out of the courtroom. (nasty dirty tricks people)

      • abbyj1 says:

        I’d put big money on it that fogen updates his parents nightly.

      • Rachael says:

        I’d put money on it that they don’t give a rat’s ass about the judges orders and are checking everything they can.

      • Rachael says:

        Besides, I think it is okay for them. They are not the jury.

    • I do hope you are correct…a gag order would be the decent thing to do in this case.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I hope you are right! We long ago needed a gag order. To bad it won’t apply to Taaffe.

    • Sophia33 says:

      No, it’s not too much to ask for Taaffe to gag on his own tongue. Let’s ask for it. What is the movie with Kenau Reeves, Al Pacino and Delray Lindo where Delray Lindo’s character does a ritual to shut someone up? Perhaps we can use that on Taaffe.

      • Ms.X says:

        The Devil’s Advocate. I love that movie.

      • ay2z says:

        Kenu and Al. Personally prefer the suspense of ‘The Firm’ which is parallel in the corrupt mob theme without the Rosemary’s Baby characterizations.

        Pacino is wonderful, but I think that’s an easier role for him to portray in his later films.

        Love the ‘Scent of a Woman’ pseudo-court scene… ” Mr. Sims, you are a cover-up artist and a liar.” (remind us of anyone??)

        “Cornball!”

      • abbyj1 says:

        Taaffe is under the mistaken impression that anyone gives a damn about what he has to say. Listening to his babbling is an exercise in drivel. The guy couldn’t think his way out of a wet paper bag. Why is it that racists are almost uniformly so stupid?

        • Xena says:

          @abbyj1. I’m surprised that the HOA hasn’t told Taaffe to STFU. Who wants to purchase property at the Retreat at Twin Lakes having Taaffe as a neighbor? No one.

    • Ms.X says:

      I agree & hope JN will impose a gag order on the lawyers. I also hope she finds wests daughters in contempt of court. There is a photo one of them tweeted of DD on the stand with west holding papers. Needless to say, it featured an insensitive, derogatory comment. What is to stop them from taking stealth photos of the jurors?

      • crazy1946 says:

        I hope that photo is shown to Judge Nelson and she takes action! I guess that is why I was shocked to see that cell phones and computers were allowed in the court room….

      • elle says:

        Ms. X where can I see this photo and derogatory comment, I cannot find it>

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Crazy1946. I have been wondering why people were allowed to have cell phones in the courtroom any way. and, West’s two evil spawn need to be banned from this courtroom as well. I’m telling you, I have never seen people act as ignorant and heartless during a murder trial except for this one.

        This is just downright shameful and, I am so GLAD that, the rest of the world is watching the IGNORANCE that is running amuck in the U.S.A. not only are they seeing the ignorance in this country, they are also seeing racial hatred up close and, in some cases personal.

        BTW, I’m really convinced that there is some outside communication going on at the defense table. O’dirty is utilizing the use of a laptop at the table as well as at the podium so, why does he have to have the use of a Ipad as well, when he is at the podium? something is not right with this picture and, I swear they are communicating with the tree house.

      • ic2fools says:

        @elle you’ll find the rachael west (west daughter) took pics with her cell and posted these, 3chicsppolitico has the info at their site with an article about it. i’m posting both l inks:

        cell pic taken in courtroom rachael west
        BONJOUR, BLACK GIRL! and posted it here:

        http://blackgrlmeat.tumblr.com/post/54127129788/smh-putting-these-dummies-on-blast-are-they

        3chicspolitico has an article and link about west daughters post that is specifically about Rachael:

        http://3chicspolitico.com/

        his daughter wrote under this pic of Rachael and her father Don West:
        rachaelwest Another successful day at the #Zimmerman trial for the defense team.

        ,

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @IC2 — i do believe that the court photographs would be sufficient to have the young ms. west(s) ejected from the courtroom and i hope that it publicly humiliating.

          • ic2fools says:

            @faux

            that would beb something to see. i’ll get to watch a bit in the morning. drs appts til late afternoon. don’t get a great signal in their offices so i’ll miss most of it.

            darn digital cookies 🙂

        • Malisha says:

          His daughters are deluded, then. Perhaps not as cruel as just plain deluded. But rooting for the home team is like that.

          • ic2fools says:

            @Malisha, absolutely, i doubt they have any remorse for what they have done. west and daughters can’r exhibit what the don’t believe applies to them.

        • bettykath says:

          After taking some time to digest this. I’ll comment on my initial reaction. This is privilege flaunting privilege. These young women were flaunting their white well-off privilege. They believe they are entitled to make fun of others. “Daddy” needs to clip their wings if he understands what’s happening or they will just get worse. From what I’ve seen of “daddy”, he doesn’t get it and nothing will happen.

          • ic2fools says:

            @bettykath hey lady :-)!

            yeppers, privilege flaunting privilege. i don’t believe ole’ sparky #dadkilledit has the slightest clue.if anything he’ll support them. he’ll have cherries put on their next ‘celebration cones’ (sic)

        • elle says:

          IC2fools, Thank you so much! I will check this out.

          • ic2fools says:

            your welcome elle

          • dianetrotter says:

            Based on her tweet, the pic of Rachel must have been taken in the courtroom. Tweet says – rachelkwest Zimmerman trial defense room. It continues in present tense with a discussion of the knock-knock joke.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Thanks Ms. X.

    • Rachael says:

      I would love it if they did, but I don’t see how or why they would. He took a nice family pic of him and his daughters going out for ice cream.

      What they did with it, I don’t know how much control over he really has.

      However, let that be a lesson to all those horrible people who are coming down on Trayvon’s parents for stuff. We all know that when our kids are that age we can’t watch them 24/7 – nor should we. Soon they will be adults on their own.

      But for all those awful people who say they would never, or their kids would never or whatever BS they have to say – they either do not have kids or have their heads in the sand,

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        A nice family picture posted on many sites that degrade AAs, I hope for instant karma!

      • Malisha says:

        But Trayvon’s parents have nothing to be ashamed OF. West has apparently taught his kids to be rude, inappropriate and to exercise poor judgment. Trayvon Martin did NONE OF THESE THINGS. Trayvon Martin’s parents must be proud that their family was so squeaky clean that the organizations who backed them were not afraid of the “blowback” they could run into if something actually bad WAS found in any of them or even in anyone remotely CONNECTED with them. NOTHING. They were clean enough to DEFEND in a society that slanders its “underclass” mercilessly. KUDOS KUDOS to the Fulton-Martins. SHAME SHAME to West and his family.

        • vickie s. votaw says:

          ” Trayvon Martin’s parents must be proud that their family was so squeaky clean that the organizations who backed them were not afraid of the “blowback” they could run into if something actually bad WAS found in any of them or even in anyone remotely CONNECTED with them. NOTHING. They were clean enough to DEFEND in a society that slanders its “underclass” mercilessly. KUDOS KUDOS to the Fulton-Martins. SHAME SHAME to West and his family.”
          I never thought about that aspect, thanks for the post. I know you are right on on that.

          • Malisha says:

            See, no drug problems in the family, nobody in prison, no OD’s, no suicides, both parents working at responsible jobs, no charges against anyone, no dirt, no skeletons in their closet. MY family of employed professionals and homeowners (white, Jewish) on the East Coast back in the 1950s didn’t come off as unassailable as the Fulton-Martins come off today. And in all the searching the defense team and the Outhouse did, they never turned up an enemy to grab the mic like Taaffe and start badmouthing them. I do not think the organizations, which have to watch their images at all times, would have stepped in if there was anything to really criticize about the Fulton-Martins.

          • dianetrotter says:

            Malisha, I never would have known that you are Caucasian.

    • bettykath says:

      I think you’re jumping to conclusions. West is taking the picture. But how do you know it’s his phone? It could be his daughter’s phone and he’s using it instead of her b/c he has the longer arms. She’s the one who did the broadcast, not him. There’s nothing wrong with taking a commemorative photo for the family. Posting it with that heading is totally tasteless and perhaps arrogant.

      • crazy1946 says:

        bettykath, you are absolutely correct, I was/am jumping to conclusions. Perhaps you are right, because I assumed wrongly that it was his phone, and because you know it was not his phone, I was wrong to think it was. thank you for correcting my error. Too bad that I think Mr. West should shoulder responsibility for the actions of his spawn much like he demands Trayvons parents should. I keep forgetting with wealth comes privilege!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Possible that West used one of his daughter’s phones to take the picture.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Not just possible, it has already been pointed out to me that he did not use his phone and has absolutely no responsibility in this at all. 😉

  94. Ty Flair says:

    I can tell you this when they teach you MMA they tell you if the person is taller than you he have the advantage because his reach are longer than yours. They tell you to get the person on the ground where his reach want matter. Fogen grab Trayvon to get him to the ground and they started wrestling. Fogen did that to his own head if someone is pinning you down and you try to use your hips to throw him off your head will go backward as your hips go foward just think about that guys.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Ty –

      Good post, Ty – and AM thinking about it!

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I think only for the boxing part. Throwing a person is actually easier if the person is taller. I always liked it when my opponent was taller than I was. But that was judo, no kicking or hitting is involved.

    • ambernjcr1 says:

      I just thought of something. Remember how Jon had said from the begining that he saw what he thought to be mma fighting. I think he may have seen this and then someone “Zimmerman” may have talked to him about changing his story. I think he “George” did not want that to come out knowing he was taking the classes. Forgetting that had told his doctor or maybe even thinking that it may never come out. I may be wrong. But it seems that all pro-zimmerman have change their stories one way or another. Since they all were not sure what really was going on till later.

  95. newmediacounsel says:

    Hello Professor,

    I posted this in the other thread, but may be it will be seen better here.

    The claims I am seeing is that because outside of female black witness there’s no evidence that Zimmerman engaged in unlawful acts, this means he didn’t provoke, and won’t have to demonstrate a prima facie case of escalation. I disagree because there’s sufficient circumstantial evidence so far to build on her statement to find a logical inference of who was the aggressive.

    However, I’ve also been arguing that the pursuit along with other bits of evidence like refusing to identify himself could be considered threatening, and that a reasonable person could have thought this provoking in the sense that indicated force was imminent even if who hit who can’t be proven.

    Is my second argument wrong? Is continued pursuit by a party who refuses to identify themselves as they follow you not enough of a provocation?

    I’ve looked at the case law. What I’ve seen is people try to legally disquinquish the facts of the case.

    Namely, I found two cases in which the defendant pursued the victim, but claimed and failed to get a self defense instruction because the court held that pursuit was provocation.

    They claim those aren’t the same because the two example involve earlier altercations rather than threatening behavior that’s exactly the same as how Zimmerman pursued.

    What’s the answer?

  96. Jose Padilla says:

    I’ve tried about a hundred jury trials (civil). PA/Nurses/paramedics/EMTS make the worst witnesses, Their body of expert knowledge is limited, but they love to testify outside their expertise and jurors will find their testimony credible. The PA should’ve been answering that she can’t make a diagnosis from a photograph and stuck with what was in her notes. O’Mara did a good job of highlighting Zimmerman’s injuries, which are the strongest part of his case.

  97. Sophia33 says:

    Thank you!

  98. Malisha says:

    Thank you Professor.
    Are possible fish high in figmental Omega-3s?

    • Rachael says:

      Virtually.

    • Big Willie says:

      @ Malisha – Just high in irrefutable mercury.

      • renah says:

        @malisha, rachael, & big willie

        LOL You guys are soo great 🙂 Of course i feel that just about everyone here are– for lots of reasons & in lots of ways — but theres a certain core group of longtime posters who i count on for the best intelligent, passionate, & real humor on the net 😉

        THANK YOU for all the daily endorphin boosts!

  99. Shari says:

    Thank you for the new post. I hope you are feeling alright please take care of yourself. You have done so much wonderful work in support of justice for Trayvon. You have also taught me a lot and caused me to think of going back and finishing college! I think I can do it while being a wife and mother. Maybe I can work to assist a lawyer like you.

    I think watching the pundits go on about this case is unhelpful. There are 6 people who are going to decide this case so all I can do is cross my fingers and wait. I knew when he was arrested that a trial was only the beginning.

    • concernedczen says:

      You might want to even pursue law school yourself Shari!

    • elle says:

      Shari, I have been lurking here for a year, so I kind of “know everyone”. I agree with concernedczen, you would be an amazing lawyer. If you have the desire. I also notice the naysayers who think the prosecution is not doing well are usually defense attorneys or not attorneys at all. Oh and male. This shows how intelligent and special the professor is. He has the ability to be objective and see the evidence for what it really is.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      Shari, I went back to school when I was 48 & got a BA 10 years later, I loved it, teachers love older students & I sucked it all up like a sponge, it helps the younger students see different perspectives. I met a lady who was just starting a degree who was in her 60’s.

    • abbyj1 says:

      Shari, Go for it! It’s a super idea for you to consider going back to school and following your passion. I always think that, if you’re going to be living it anyway, you may as well spend the time doing what you love. I am rooting for you!

      • Shari says:

        Thank you guys. I have about 40 credits already. I’m going to the local community college to look into it.

        Again Prof. please take care of yourself. Some people are saying you may be ill? I haven’t been here long enough to know. Warm fuzzies your way…

  100. Rachael says:

    This is what I’ve been waiting for. Thanks!

    • cielo62 says:

      YES! Is closing approaching soon?

      • Rachael says:

        NO. LOL – Still have to finish the prosecution, then the defense puts on it’s witnesses.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        There’s a lot of ground that still has to be covered. Omar’s antics makes it necessary for the prosecution to close every gate and bar every door.

        While Bernie is focused on rounding up the evidence he needs to make his case, the defense is focused on wreaking total confusion, torturing witnesses and generally abusing the facts.

        Jurors who were awake and aware, cannot be happy that their time had been totally wasted on Omar’s Fantastical Medicine Show. He will be penalized for it by losing jurors attention when and if he tries it again. They now know to look out for the over use of “possible” and the three sisters of wishful regrets: “Cuddah, Wuddah and Shuddah”!

        • Trained Observer says:

          Lonnie, of the three sisters, I think jurors will most likely relate to Shuddah — as in Fogen “shuddah kept his dumb butt in his vehicle when he knew cops were coming.”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Right you are!!! I sure hope Bernie finds a way to explain that gz had “a mission” and a “false sense of sense of authority” that is what caused him to get out of his truck.

            His “mission” was accomplished when he called NEN and that is all the “authority” his concern for the neighborhood gave him.

            Anything beyond that was him taking a dangerous situation on himself and that was something he had been instructed not to do!

            Now, he has no injuries that he can attribute to Trayvon, but Trayvon has a fatal injury that is clearly due to gz’s own intentions and equipment!

            His weapon is small and black in a black holster. In the dark, under his dark clothing, it is not possible for Trayvon to focus on that area and see the weapon, because Trayvon would be focused on gz’s face for communications, and on his body for the purposes of escape!

            The head bashing and ground and pound are clearly made up, so there was no wiggling around on the ground to cause his jacket to rise up. The rolling on the ground was due to gz’s trying to prevent Trayvon from fleeing by using a take down maneuver.

            gz had learned from his law courses that, since witnesses had seen him in physical contact with Trayvon, he could not let the kid live to tell his side of the story. Because the kid would present as so slim, so physically incapable of fighting and so psychologically distraught, it would be amazingly clear that this kid presented no threat at all to anyone, less the bigger, heavier and professionally trained, former bouncer!

            gz is a monster, who will kill to avoid being held accountable for his lack of discretion and responsibility.

      • ay2z says:

        YES! It was approaching before the trial got started, according to a little slip of Judge Nelson, after dealing with the defense’s delay deposition tactics.

        To the defense, she advised “… we are about to begin closing statements.”

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