Welcome to the fifth day of the Zimmerman trial

Friday, June 28, 2013

Good morning:

Welcome to the fifth day of trial.

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/

The trial resumes at 9 am EDT.

2,421 Responses to Welcome to the fifth day of the Zimmerman trial

  1. Lonnie Starr says:

    On my evidence pile here
    at the top of the page after the world time and local time there is a link “Live Stream Sites” it will take you to a post that includes links to the live stream sites I’ve collected from here, all in one place.

  2. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Zimmerman could have cut his head on one of those small round water sprinklers in the ground when they were tussling or rolling on the grass.

    • willisnewton says:

      Many things are possible. What GZ claims happened is NOT possible.

      Keep in mind the state does not have to prove EVERYTHING that happened, only that Trayvon was killed by a man with a depraved mindset, and that his claim to justifiable homicide is a lie.

  3. Fred C says:

    Does anyone find it strange that no one seems to actually know gz? I think Rachel’s statement “He by his father’s house” means gz was by TM’s father’s house and that’s why he ran back toward the T. I think gz may have seen Chad at some point near Brandy’s location and that caused him to go that direction. If Chad ever went outside, seeing a black male wouldn’t be so unusual to gz and frank laughy. Just my observation.

    • KittySP says:

      Yes, I found it strange considering he claimed to know everyone and their kids…yet known of the residents testifying actually knew him, except Jenna.

  4. EveryoneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    THE FIX IS IN… Has anyone notice the jury selection. Clearly Bernie shouldn’t be in this case. He is weak. Where is Ms. Corey a stronger person. Trayvon Martin will not get justice. They jury was not selected to be a jury of Trayvon Martins peers. It was a GZ peers selections. RIP Trayvon the prosecution will not obtain justice. The fix is in…..

    • Trained Observer says:

      You are drawing erroneous conclusions on virtually every point from beginning to end.

    • aussie says:

      Deep breaths please.

      There is no fix.

      Trayvon Martins’ peers???? since when does a jury have to be peers of the victim????

      Since when are middle aged women with children peers of GZ???

      The jury is ok. There’s a good chance whatever little racism they may have is being balanced h by their sympathy for children and teens. They were all people who had not made up their minds about the case, so are open to giving proper consideration to the facts as presented in court (rather than as presented in the media).

      Bernie is ok, too. Not a bulldog. More a smart fox. Brains over brawn. Where he’s not pushed hard on a point, it is either because it is a minor point that doesn’t really matter, or he is going to bring someone a lot stronger to make that point for him.

      Besides, there is zero political advantage to Florida in losing this case. It would just make them the laughing stock of the world. Winning would make them seem a bit less unfair than they look now.

    • cielo62 says:

      EIETTO~ BEGONE retched troll! Geez, according to the COnsititution is SUPPOSED to be a jury of the DEFENDENTS peers!! And where were your OH SO WISE words during the week of jury selection? What an loadmouthed moron you are. Aren’t you needed to place the toilet paper back at your treehouse?

      ________________________________

  5. Malisha says:

    Desiderata

    Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
    Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
    If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
    for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

    Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
    Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
    Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
    But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
    and everywhere life is full of heroism.

    Be yourself.
    Especially, do not feign affection.
    Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

    Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
    Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
    Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

    You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
    you have a right to be here.
    And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

    Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
    and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
    With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

    © Max Ehrmann 1927

  6. ladystclaire says:

    I thought W6 recanted his MMA style raining down blows by Trayvon on Fogen. It’s very obvious that, W6, and Jenna are both lying for Fogen. I have a bad feeling about this and, that he is going to get away with his crime. what in the hell is wrong with the state?

    • Malisha says:

      W-6 did actually recant but he was scared and iffy about his recant because the defense was tugging at him and he was afraid of a prosecution rebound on his ass. He said he wasn’t 100% sure of things he had already admitted he did not see or hear at all. He said he couldn’t really tell for certain about things that he had already admitted having NO KNOWLEDGE of. His testimony is now effectively zero. He said as many yays as nays and he looks like a mamby-pamby fool who stuck both feet in his big mouth. Maybe he needs to go train at the MMA gym so he can do the “OWA TAGOO SIAM” exercise more effectively and build up the muscle between his ears.

      • ladystclaire says:

        As for W6 he seemed to be kind of hostile and, I saw the very same thing in Jenna. why do they want to see someone who has killed a kid in cold blood, get away with murder. as for Jenna’s following Robbie the Racist on Twitter, how did that come out and, is the state going to call her back?

        It’s very obvious that Jenna and Jeremy saw and heard more than they are telling. she also made it a point of saying, that she could hear sneakers on pavement. Trayvon was wearing sneakers. if the rest of the folks in Florida are this racist, then GOD have mercy on these people.

    • disappointed says:

      I believe the State left it open to recall Jenna. I think once they put on the rest of their case they will play it by ear. If they want they can recall her before defense takes over. They call her to clear up a couple of issues. 1) did you originally say you heard “what are you doing” and 2) Last time you were on stand MOM asked you if you knew Fogen to be a hot head. You said no but that’s not true is it? No Sir. He assaulted office and had mutual restraining order with ex-girl friend. He beat her. State rest. I think, and I pray I’m right.

  7. gbrbsb says:

    Professor, sorry to bother but up thread I left a long comment which looks like a huge quote which, if you read this, I would be grateful if you could correct. I must have forgotten the end blockquote.

  8. KittySP says:

    What the hell! Why is Tracey Martin ex wife on AC360 with her it’s all about me sob story…I’m just floored by that!

    • Alicia needs to go sit her ass down someplace. No one needs any drama at this critical time. She should know better. WTF is wrong with her?

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      I just got through watching that. Smh!

    • @Kitty,

      Tracy isn’t talking to her anymore. Alicia said Tracy communicated with her early on and he stopped. That’s the problem!

      • LeaNder says:

        He must have his reasons, I am sure. When I heard her change from my stepson to my son, I was slightly startled. Is this lady more concerned about getting into the lime light than about Trayvon’s dead?

    • LeaNder says:

      I just watched it. I think defense has effectively played these people against one another. Although not sure if that was all of it. I wondered about Rachel and Crump for instance.

      But I agree, really peculiar and slightly sick to sit there and speak about “my son”, he wasn’t her son. I think it is a partially a her own type of revenge against Tracy. Pretty transparent. We do not know why he stopped to contact her, but her washing dirty laundry in public tells me all I need to know about her.

      She is playing into the hands of the CTH and team Fogen, is she too stupid to understand?

      Trayvon must have realized he better never talks about his mother with her, and it does not seem she ever did talk with Sybrina either. That’s the crux.

      • LeaNder says:

        I squeezed this sentence in after: Although not sure if that was all of it.

        It should follow: I just watched, although not sure if all of it.

        The direct CCN link did not work for me, so I only saw about 10 minutes.

        In any case I am pretty sure defense plays some divide and conquer games. They hope they can use a couple of dog whistles on the jury.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @leander

        alicia has come out with this story before. in no way do i want to deny her own grief and suffering, she too lost someone that she obviously loved and cared for. tracy and sybrina had joint custody and not doubt alicia had spent much time with trayvon.

        where things get sticky, as i see it is that she is feeling left out in the process. her relationship with tracy was ending as his relationship with brandy greene was in progress, they were not yet divorced. this likely causes some hard feelings. in addition, she is left out of the limelight and perhaps rightfully so, wants to make her role clear. tracy and sybrina have stood together through the media onslaught. brandy greene had the decency to step aside, apparently without jealous conflict, alicia does not seem able to do so.

        • LeaNder says:

          alicia does not seem able to do so.

          That is exactly what I do not like, and strictly her behavior makes me wonder if there wasn’t a good reason Tracy got divorced. Imagine Trayvon couldn’t even mention his mother. I seriously doubt he would not have naturally spoken about her circumstances been different, and she is a part of these circumstances.

          What I liked about my youngest sister is when she separated from her husband, they remained good friends. It was necessary too, their daughter was 14 at the tine and she had a hard time with it, much more than my sister. My sister also, I guess intially for her daughter went to see him and his new family and new kids. Much more natural then how she talks about it. He never mentioned his mother? Maybe he sensed he better did not do it?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            leander says

            He never mentioned his mother? Maybe he sensed he better did not do it?

            that was my take on it as well.

          • LeaNder says:

            either that or she would love to take over Sybrina’s part. If I were Tracy that would make me slightly angry.

            My son????

            Bad timing, attractive woman, but many of her statements make me wonder.

        • LeaNder says:

          alicia does not seem able to do so.

          That is exactly what I do not like, and strictly her behavior makes me wonder if there wasn’t a good reason Tracy got divorced. Imagine Trayvon couldn’t even mention his mother. I seriously doubt he would not have naturally spoken about her circumstances been different, and she is a part of these circumstances.

          What I liked about my youngest sister is when she separated from her husband, they remained good friends. It was necessary too, their daughter was 14 at the tine and she had a hard time with it, much more than my sister. My sister also, I guess intially for her daughter went to see him and his new family and new kids. Much more natural then how she talks about it. He never mentioned his mother? Maybe he sensed he better did not do it?

  9. Romaine says:

    I agree with you TEE..I need to see a knock down drag out fight for the justice Trayvon deserves. let the defense talk all the trash they want. I don’t care who the prosecutors bring down to prove their case. there is no inner protection for anyone who violated the law during the investigation or depositions. each individual should be held accountable for their lies and lack of proper procedural processing of the crime committed by the defendant. Bring forth the truth based on facts without fear, or the brotherhood of ones peers.

  10. Judy75201 says:

    I can’t imagine why anyone would think there is any defeat from today whatsoever. Really, that’s just BS.

  11. Michael Stewart says:

    Ebb and Flow; remember ?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      😀

    • Ty Flair says:

      @Michael Stewart, this video say it all why give up on BDLR now if it want for them the killer would had walk free. I look at it this way fogen only have six weekends to spend with his family and he is using one weekend now. BDLR will get justice for this kid.

  12. Tee says:

    I will never declare defeat i trust that God got this. My mom use to say you can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. That’s what the defence is hoping or to fool us all . I say Bernie is trying to box GZ in so that he has to take the stand, but that means he got to impeach these witnesses. just pissed that Bernie let them lie and he don’t buckle them down. It’s like he’s scared to upset them. The defence drives nails into the witnesses, Bernie need to understand that Trayvon life should not be in vain GZ needs to pay & e expect more.

    • Malisha says:

      You can’t impeach your own witness.

      • Romaine says:

        that’s too bad cause i’d sure nough get jenna, John, and t. smith…
        does anyone think Bernie is concerned about the sanctions Omara filed against him, maybe omara is intimidating Bernie with that?

        • I do not believe Bernie is concerned about those motions for sanctions.

        • LeaNder says:

          I agree, with Fred. Who by the way showed us that these motions are unfounded, smoke and mirrors and possibly attempts at delay, as Nelson realized. That is why she ruled she will deal with matters after the trial. The only thing she may possibly grant is the motion concerning the delay of the deposition of Rachel. Since the videotaping was granted later. And defense can prove it was in their paperwork. Although I think they used a trick to only add it later. But surely not the rest, and there are more allegations. Remember.

          Concerning the videotaping event, BDLR couldn’t care less whatever the outcome. He has a right to object. And in this event it was not completely his fault, since Nelson couldn’t be reached directly.

          If you think that Bernie is intimidated, shouldn’t Nelson be too somehow? After all the writ was granted. I have not seen her change her ruling after that very much as a result. E.g. concerning the earlier calls with the “exquisite” argument by O’Mara the earlier calls that only show good behavior of his client and thus cannot be entered in evidence. Do I need to add an irony alert?

          But concerning the earlier calls, I wondered why Smith was not asked about the event at 02/02/2012 at Taaffe’s house, where Fogen followed “the suspect”, and called back to report the change of address. But it seems that Jonathan Mead was the one arriving first and then contacted Smith via radio.

          Jonathan Mead was deposed by defense on Oct. 17, 2012. He was the first followed by Wagner, the guy who took the photo, Erwin, the man who did the test with Fogen and if I am correct, claims he was present when Tracy supposedly said, no that is not his son, and Ciesla, who watched the event but did not hear what Tracy said since he spoke very low. The man that updated his report the same day Serino filed,, or had to file the R.O.I addition to his earlier Capias concerning the “not my son” event.

          This suggests to me that defense also considers Jonathan Mead’s testimony important.

        • LeaNder says:

          Come to think of it, it also shows that their argument that the earlier calls don’t matter is insincere.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Bernie is no newbie he has hundred of cases under his belt and he has won them using his own inimitable style. By now he knows what the jury is looking for and he has a good idea of what they are thinking and what impresses jurors the most.

      Bernie knows that when the defense badgers witnesses, then blows up these huge fake evidence balloons full of hot air, all it takes is one little puncture to deflate them. Do it once and the jury becomes suspicious of the defense, do it twice and the jury becomes annoyed with the defense. Do it a third time and the jury will be determined to send the client to jail, no matter the Savior himself should appear. It’s just human nature when ticked off, to want to do something about it. Three bad jolts is all the excuse they will need to Ka-boom the kaboodle!

  13. breelee says:

    I loved when Bernie had the PA show with her fingers how big fogens back boo-boos were. That would be a great picture to share. You could barely see her fingers apart.

    If I was Bernie here’s what I would try to prove happened. Maybe there was a “tussle”, but what fogen then did and explains how Trayvon could have been on top was just like people who force others to rear end them.

    Meaning: When fogen decided he was mad and not going to take it anymore, having a teenager “sass” him, he pulled him on top of him with his gun already out. Trayvon knew fogen was trying to make it look like he was attacking him, and knew he was going to shoot to kill. That’s why he was screaming in terror. Not only was he being killed, but was also being framed as the attacker.

    fogen knew if Trayvon was on top it’d look like he was defending himself. And if John really saw Trayvon moving his arms down, that was because he was trying to break free and save his own life since no one was coming out to help. And that Jon pizzes me off. He wouldn’t go help a screaming person, but runs out AFTER a gun shot is heard???!!! I do think the PA helped the state some, and I know MOM freaked when she let it out he was seeing a psych. lol Have a great weekend everyone.

    • Malisha says:

      Fogen was never underneath, in my opinion. He was on top but W-6 couldn’t recant his ENTIRE testimony; he was scared because he had said too much and to recant the whole damn thing would DEFINITELY bust him as at least an accessory after the fact. He had to retain some part of his original lie, which he had told with the idea that it wouldn’t be questioned because the police were so assuring and so protective of anybody who would tell the Fogen self-defense story. This thing really turned around on him and he got scared. My belief is that Trayvon was struggling, yelling, trying to run, being restrained, flailing, and then on the ground with Fogen over him killing him. Period. Not that it matters. Defending himself after being followed and accosted would not make Fogen’s actions into self-defense.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      My guess is they knew gz’s voice because they knew him. They didn’t go out side because they didn’t want to be a witness to gz beating up some black youth. They were okay with that so they ducked inside and let gz have his way. What they didn’t expect was the gunshot! Because they then realized what a terrible thing they had done by not going out to stop the fighting.

      They should not have been okay with gz beating up anyone, but they were and that’s what landed them in the soup. They did not want to face a trial of any sort, because they knew they would lose big time and an enraged jury might destroy the RATL.

  14. Donna Flores says:

    Looking back at the testimony of Good, he said he first spotted trayvon and zimmerman right on top of each other flat, as if Zimmerman was falling and might have grabbed on to Trayvon and brought him down with him, which automatically puts Trayvon on top, which probably freaked him out more. Could explain the small cuts to Zimmerman head, maybe landing on the sidewalk, which is when he yells out. Trayvon was asking for help, Zimmerman was just yelling. The nose, definitely had to be from recoil. I just wish Bernie would have made some suggestions.

    • Donna Flores says:

      which is why the phone hit the grass, and Trayvon was saying Get off me Get off me, in teenage languages that means leave me alone, not that the person is literally on you.

      • Ms.X says:

        When people invade my personal space, thats what I say Otherwise I might ask, “Why are ya’ll all up on me?”

    • ladystclaire says:

      You can definitely hear Fogen in the background, mocking Trayvon. every time we hear Trayvon cry out for help, one can also hear Fogen mocking him. it’s there clear as a bell.

      Maybe his justice should be meted out in the street, just like he did Trayvon. either way, like someone else has said, Fogen is a “DEAD MAN WALKING.”

      Each time Trayvon yells out help me, Fogen yells help. this is such a shame and, my GOD I don’t want him to get away with murdering this kid.

    • MrSykes says:

      I honestly think Fogen cut his head by running into one of the sharp tree branches out there in the grass during the struggle.

  15. Sabrina B. says:

    Thanks! It so easy to get discouraged. I forgot that one of the things we found out today is that fogen never said, “help me with this guy.”

  16. fauxmccoy says:

    time wise on trayvon/zimmerman and use of racial slurs
    i agree with this man, as usual

    http://www.timwise.org/2013/06/revisiting-a-past-essay-honky-wanna-cracker-examining-the-myth-of-reverse-racism/

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Thank for the link to Tim Wise’s excellent piece, fauxmccoy.

      From the article:

      For even if we interpret the term in the light most damaging for Martin, a difference remains between that and the way in which Zimmerman saw Martin as the embodiment of black criminality (and had on several previous occasions when black males entered the neighborhood, including in one case a 9-year old child on whom he called police).

      The difference is this: Martin’s racialized “bias” if we choose to call it that, against Zimmerman, prompted him to attempt to avoid Zimmerman. He ran away from him. Zimmerman’s racialized bias against Martin led him to pursue Martin. And that matters. For if the latter hadn’t happened, no one would know either man’s name today. Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would still just be a pathetic wanna-be cop.

      In short, comparing these things is like comparing…let’s see…Skittles and handguns.

    • dianetrotter says:

      Interesting! Well thought out!

  17. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I have never seen such creases on the lower lips……guess it is where he rests his fangs.

  18. Tee says:

    Is this not grounds for a mistrial? I would think.

  19. dianetrotter says:

    Do not be so quick to declare defeat. Prosecution will definitely bring up
    1. Z said don’t call the police because he was on the phone with them (cellphone will prove this lie)
    2. He did NOT ask anyone to help him (as proved by witnesses)
    3. I’m gon git you mothaF (or whatever from the 70s) is not plausible in any of the scenarios witnessed
    4. Me will show no way TM could have said, “You got me! I give.” or otherwise give a departing dissertation prior to dying.
    5. He needs to explain how they moved from the T is that is where he was attacked.

    I’m not an attorney but there is so much left to be done. Angela Corey, BDLR, Mantei, and cute John Guy … they got this.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Thanks! It so easy to get discouraged. I forgot that one of the things we found out today is that fogen never said, “help me with this guy.”

    • disappointed says:

      As to your #1 today I believe it was MOM who did mention something to John about Fogen saying he called the police whether just then or within 4 minutes. Not his exact words, so I do not believe oh Fogen was on the phone trying to get help out there.
      Let’s not forget we still have all of his phone records. Show me some text and show me who he called on the 26 and 27th. I would also like his daddy’s phone records also.

  20. Tee says:

    This is crazy I couldn’t even watch some of this shit! Sorry for the language I’m mad as hell. They lie on the stand and you can tell the ones that are going to lie just by looking at their face, & Bernie don’t rip them apart he’s to damn easy on them and this isn’t working.

    • jm says:

      Agree Tee. Bernie better have an ACE up his sleeve or he is going to be the biggest goat ever and perhaps targeted more than GZ . He can’t afford to blow this case yet he seems to be doing this either due to incompetence or a fix. Bernie is in a lose-lose situation now.

    • Malisha says:

      You can’t impeach your own witness.

      The defense has not made any real important points with ANY witness so far. Not ONE.

  21. Sabrina B. says:

    Didn’t this man’s son kill himself? Taffe’s? He is a nasty man and I can but feel sorry for what that kid might have had to go through growing up with him.

    • Malisha says:

      One son died of a drug overdose a few years back, and Taaffe was not allowed at the funeral (separate memorial service later) because his ex-wife and his other two kids had restraining orders out against him. THEN his other son died, in a car accident, after having gone public IN THIS CASE about his father being a drunk, an abuser, a liar, and a racist. His ex-wife and daughter STILL have restraining orders out against him.

      What a prize. To be telling other people what’s right and what’s wrong. OMG. Talk about growing CORN! He grows poison IVY!

  22. Puck says:

    MSNBC doing a live GZ trial special at 10 p.m. edt.

  23. Judy75201 says:

    When O’Mara tries to appeal to “reasonable doubt”, I want BDLR to ask, “Is it reasonable to believe that Trayvon attacked a stranger for no reason, sucker punched him, and pounded his head into the pavement a dozen times, all while leaving no DNA of the event, while on his way home from 7/11 with candy and a drink, and on the phone with his friend?”

  24. LLMPapa says:

    I’m not gonna let this shit go by.

  25. My Forehead Tho says:

    To those who haven’t seen West’s daughter’s instagram photo mocking the prosecution and/or RJ, here you go:

    • KittySP says:

      They showed this on HLN Dr. Drew.

      • KittySP says:

        By posting this for all the world to see…they’ve become the face of stupidity! “That was real retarded, Mr. Don, sir!”

    • Malisha says:

      Uh Oh, very stooooopid.
      OY!

      BTW I decided, after reading about this earlier, to go get myself some ice cream. Strangely, the freezer at the grocery store was all tied up with string and a sign was posted:

      BECAUSE OF A PROBLEM WITH OUR REFRIGERATION SYSTEM WE ARE UNABLE TO SELL ICE CREAM AT THIS TIME. WE ARE SORRY FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE.

      That does it! I’m gonna sue West for intentional irritation beyond the point of endurance.

  26. Brandy says:

    Hi Professor, cant wait to hear your thoughts on the way this trial is going so far. I would love to hear some uplifting words of wisdom from you 🙂 I am feeling worried about the way things are going!

    I need to shut it all down and watch a movie and spend time with the family. Hope everyone has a great weekend!

    JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON
    HOODIES UP!

    • dianetrotter says:

      I would thing this is a very serious ethical breach – not from an attorney from someone who has been warned to NOT TALK ABOUT IT let alone take victory photo ops.

  27. Judy75201 says:

    I don’t care how often someone claims something happened a certain way. If there are pics, vids, and DNA/physical evidence that don’t support your claim, you won’t be believed at the end of the day–sleazy lying creepy lawyers notwithstanding. Fogen is going to prison.

  28. PYorck says:

    I didn’t see today as negatively as many here. Sure, it was a defensive day, but those witnesses and arguments don’t go away. I think it makes sense that the state addresses them during their own case. At the end of the day the defense didn’t get much out of what were probably their best witnesses. Had the defense called them all for the first time during their own case there would have been the risk that they present a coherent other side of the story that the state doesn’t want you to know about™. What is the defense supposed to do now? Call them all again and ask them the same things? Sure, they are allowed to sit there and insist that they don’t have to prove a thing, but is that really such a great option?

  29. Brandy says:

    I should say on Dr Drew with Mark Eiglarsh sitting in for him, they think the pic is inappropriate as well

  30. Brandy says:

    They are showing the pic of West and daughters that was posted on Instagram right now on HLN

  31. sparger says:

    Looked at the pix of Don west.He has bumps on his bald head. Bernie should put his head and west’s head into evidence to show people have bumpy heads naturally.

  32. Dangit people I wish you would stop calling Don West, Skeletor. Jeez, can’t we be more dignified adults here?

  33. jm says:

    Thank you GrannyStandingForTruth. I heard someone wise on say that the truth from Rachael will not be accepted because of her looks and her dialect. The defense is counting on that. It is sickening and the prosecution can’t afford mistakes. I am getting suspect that the prosecution is either letting things slide on purpose or they are incompetent. Not sure which but today was a disaster they could not afford.

  34. Puck says:

    Here’s when Mantei and Bernie show MOM and West the laptop:

    • Puck says:

      oops, around 2:02

    • Romaine says:

      they are definitely covering up. officer smith perjured himself during his testimony, the defendant was allowed to go to the rest room and clean up on his own…then when he came out of the bathroom discovered the defendants fire arm and retrieved it. there is a statement to this fact. nothing about providing the defendant with a bottle of water and allowing him to clean up in the interrogation room…this is the BS that is annoying me

      • aussie says:

        I’ve seen all the evidence dumps and I don’t recall any such statement at all.

        There was a set of statements all the police made to the FDLE investigators. They are not statements made in any chronological order. They were replies to a number of unrelated questions in no particular order.

        You may be thinking of one of these.

        The firearm was taken from GZ AT THE SCENE and there are several witnesses to that.

      • Malisha says:

        The gun was on the front seat of the squad car as Tim Smith drove Fogen in. Where’s the dashcam? I DID see a report that said Fogen was allowed to go into the restroom by himself, unsupervised, and clean up, and he came out. I definitely saw that.

      • Romaine says:

        i’m not good at attaching links but I will look for what I’ve stated and try to post it

      • Romaine says:

        okay this is a narrative from TC Osteen on march 23, 2012, documenting ofc T smith interview it is in the SOA document doc dump..if anyone has that document review it and you will find the discrepancy i’m referring to.

        I’ve tried to cut and paste it with no success

    • dianetrotter says:

      Selected item is not currently available.

  35. racerrodig says:

    Today was very disappointing but I only saw / heard a few bits.

    However, if you read between the lines, JG said all this blah, blah, blah and this, that and the other thing and yet all of this happened while he was on his way up the stairs to the window (the pussy)

    He admitted he could not / did not see or hear anything resembling any punching or contact.

    Now listen to his call which has the exact same problem that cac’s call has re: the “…he circled my truck…” aspect. His call never cites a fight as it allegedly happened, and he says it sounded like a pop or a rocket. Only when he says there are other people outside with flashlights does he say it was a gunshot. What’s up with that ??

    The PA was a joke, but why didn’t Bernie assail her “if he said his nose was broken, it must have been broken, who am I to argue” line of thought.

    • jm says:

      racerodig “The PA was a joke, but why didn’t Bernie assail her “if he said his nose was broken, it must have been broken, who am I to argue” line of thought.”

      I agree. Bernie was not competent in questioning the PA further. She was awful and Bernie let it stand as if she was capable. Her notes say GZ’s head was normocephalic, atraumatic. No it wasn’t. If he had lacerations the head was not atraumatic. This may be over Bernie’s head and he let it fly.

      • Malisha says:

        Lacerations were skin injuries. No “head trauma.” Ergo no “pounding.”

      • tonya B says:

        trust me im sure BDLR has experts to come in and tell the jury about head injuries …..NO WORRIES…… why would he argue with a PA shes no expert…….

      • Malisha says:

        They will need medical experts to say that the injuries Fogen had were not the result of a life-threatening beat-down IF and ONLY IF the defense puts on evidence of self-defense! By whatever means the defense thinks it can put on such evidence, then there would be plenty of rebuttal witnesses — NONE of whom would be on the witness lists of course because they don’t HAVE to be — to rebut the self-defense claim. So now, the witnesses are testifying to make sure they can’t go on as part of the defense’s self-defense case (they won’t dare try to reverse their testimony!) and whatever they say, who cares so long as they do not say:

        1. That they observed Trayvon Martin START A FIGHT with Fogen and then beat him mercilessly; or

        2. That they heard or knew of any plan on Trayvon Martin’s part to kill a creepy-ass cracka in Sanford.

        The rest of it, no matter. West’s and O’Mara’s inane “theories” of the case consist of “isn’t it possible that…” and no matter what’s possible, reasonable doubt must be based on some kind of evidence or a LACK of evidence on the prosecution side.

        Already we do not have a lack of evidence on the prosecution side. We have more evidence than either the Arias or the Anthony trial had. (In Arias we did not have a recorded statement from the killer that she did not want the victim to get away; in Anthony we did not have the alleged killer’s admission that she had actually killed the victim.) So we’re way ahead and we need to calm our nerves.

  36. ks says:

    Folks please hold firm. I suspect we are being trolled a bit because the folks around here are usually very level headed. Hopefully, the Prof and Crane can do a sweep to see what’s what.

    Anyway, if you step back you’d see that on balance the prosecution had a good start.

    Notice how it’s now established as fact the GZ aggressively perused TM and exhibited similar paranoia behavior in the past?

    Notice how GZ’s simple and self serving narratives of the struggle is gone? All of the witnesses so far report seeing and hearing some sort moving argument and struggle. Not some simple, “he hit me, I fall down, he try and kill me” nonsense.

    Notice how “thug MMA TM” is gone now that we know that GZ was the one who was actually training in MMA and due to his lawyers incompetence, part of his shady personal history is starting to come in

    All that matters with the PA is the report she took the day after. That’s what will be used as evidence not MOM’s could bes and might bes, etc. smoke blowing exercises.

    MOM and West have been boxed in to trying to absurdly gin up GZ’s minor scraps. It’s all they have left and that will be fully taken away next week thought it started today with the testimony about his demeanor and mind scraps.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      Ks, everyone that voices their disappointment with how this trial is going is not a troll. I’ve posted on here from day one. But, right now, I’m very upset with the way the media has treated Rachel.

      • ks says:

        GrannystandingforTruth,

        I’m not talking about you or a lot of the other regulars but there has been an influx of some questionable folks and I suspect some ID stealing.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        @Ks, I apologize. Right now, I can hardly think straight and that’s why I gonna go to my corner and hush so that I can cool off a little bit. Before I came back here, I had read some negative stuff that someone said was posted on West’s twitter account and some other stuff where people were putting Rachel down and it pissed me off because she is just a kid. Nothing pisses me off more than adults verbally or physically abusing kids.

      • ks says:

        Granny….,

        I understand and it’s all good. : )

    • Shari says:

      I’m not a sock or troll. I watch the trial as if I were a juror and not on the side of justice for Trayvon. People on twitter were excited about the security footage but I’m not sure how the jury saw it. If negative posts are too demoralizing I can keep it on twitter or to myself. We have been waiting a YEAR. I hope this is all part of some big plan because if not I’m putting my tin foil hat on.

      AC’s office is supposed to be top notch. They have had a year. Fogen needs to go down, we need 0 errors. One of the jurors said Trayvon shouldn’t have been out “so late” at night. What are those other women thinking? What prior bias do they have? I don’t know them or their character can we trust them to take their oath seriously? Who knows

  37. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    I need to take a break. Right now, you can fry and egg on my forehead and it would turn a crispy black inside out. When it comes to abusing children mentally or physically, I do not play. Nor do I partake in upholding any adult who does those type of things.

    And for adults to gang up on a kid, humiliate, insult, and ridicule them in mainstream media let’s me know that we have some mentally unbalanced adults that are no better than child abusers. In fact, adults who participated in tearing Rachel down and destroying that child in mainstream media are child abusers in my book. I don’t care how they try to justify what they did to her, it is inexcusable!

    I pray that Rachel will be strengthen in her spirit, that the public humiliation does not result in her committing suicide, and that her self-esteem is not completely destroyed. I pray that the Lord puts someone in her path that will lift her spirits and encourage her.

    Right now I am too upset to even talk, so I’m going back to my corner and hush.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      You might want to read this article, granny:

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/06/28/rachel_jeantel_witness_in_george_zimmerman_trial_gets_the_trayvon_martin.html

      I admire Rachael for her honesty, strength, and ability to stand up to West.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        So much of the media has lost its soul.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Thank YAHT, that article is my point exactly. Since when does speaking the King’s English determine if someone is a human being or not? The media dehumanized that child and that is what pisses me off. Smh!

        I observed how that child was literally shaking on the stand even talking about Trayvon. When she said, “You don’t understand. You just don’t understand.” And they don’t, nor do they care. She is a hurting and wounded in her spirit child who is grieving over the loss of her friend and now she is being held up for public ridicule. The bible says, “Thou shalt not kill” and people don’t realize that they can kill with their mouth as well. Words are powerful and with the dehumanization of Rachel, I pray that all of those with their unkind words haven’t killed her spirit.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Sorry, I hit the button accidentally before I said that she is traumatized by the whole ordeal.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I agree with you, granny.

        However, thankfully, Rachael’s strong spirit won’t let West turn her around. She has an inner strength to call it as she sees it.

        Right now, I have to have hope that BDLR will shine next week and prove that gz’s story is a lie. I do not want to worry right now. I am still feeling the devastating effects of the Supreme Court decision gutting the core of 1965 Voting Rights Act.

        I am glad your spirit shall not be moved or turned around, and that you, too, call it as you see it in your other recent post:

        >But I learned something new out of this whole ordeal. Speaking the King’s English determines who is human and who is not. A child killer is considered a hero. We live in a sick, strange country.

      • Malisha says:

        RIDICULOUS! They’re trying to tear down Rachel because she dominated West and stood up for the truth in that courtroom. No game, no shame, and no nonsense; when she said he was saying something that was “retarded” it was not, as the journalist incorrectly noted, the idea that Trayvon attacked Fogen; it was the idea that Trayvon LIED to her about his intention to escape Fogen, but then instead chose to take him on. Rachel said it was retarded because Hell YES IT WAS!

      • groans says:

        Thanks for that link, YAHTC!

  38. sparger says:

    Some all of you need to come off that ledge. Today wasn’t the best date but it wasn’t the worse. The prosecution needs to regroup and counter all the dumb arguments West and Omara put on today. Monday is a new day.

    • jm says:

      The prosecution doesn’t get a day off. They need to be on their best game everyday. They blew it today.

      • Judy75201 says:

        You don’t know what is to come. Neither do I. So I think your judgment is premature.

        • jm says:

          Every day should be a win. No I don’t know what is to come but I do know there has been doubt planted in the juror’s mind so far.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        @jm, yes, they did. It’s almost like it’s a setup to fail in winning. I’ve already said a few posts ago how I felt it was gonna turn out. It’s part of America’s ugly history.

        But I learned something new out of this whole ordeal. Speaking the King’s English determines who is human and who is not. A child killer is considered a hero. We live in a sick, strange country. I’m trying my best to believe that it’s gonna work out, but I can’t help feeling ashamed to be called an American.

      • KA says:

        I have to disagree with you. Let me tell you a few of my thoughts…

        I do not think the State wants a he said/she said decision. The witnesses today were not qualified to give much of an opinion on GZ’s health or the location of the bodies when the gun was fired….but a medical expert on head injuries, blood flow, and brain damage is. A witness that contradicts the stories of other witnesses is not an absolute expert as it was admittedly dark…but a ballistics expert, a medical examiner, and other forensic experts ARE qualified to say the most likely position of the body when the gun went off and whether Trayvon was on the bottom or top in the most likely and probable scenario.

        I do not think BLDR wants to waste his questions on nonexperts. It is FAR more powerful to ask the questions from the absolute experts the FIRST TIME that will clearly blow “self defense” out of the water.

        Let O’Mara have his playtime with amateurs, he will not be so slick with the professionals that have absolute data in front of them.

        I remember in the Arias trial, the abuse experts were very compelling to jurors, but the horrible gravity of the murder and planning was far more powerful.

        John Guy, in his opening statement said it will be shown that GZ did not need to kill Trayvon, he WANTED to. He also talked about the punctuation of the screams at the gunshot…which I think is damning to the thought that the one with the gun made.

        I think, by the time the prosecution rests, it will be clear that GZ shot him because he WANTED too.

    • ks says:

      Exactly. There’s was some good pro-prosecution testimony today and think about it, if John was the best “defense” witnesses, then GZ is in trouble. From a strategy standpoint, the prosecution is methodically dismantling the defense piece by piece.

      • KA says:

        Jurors are humans. We all make decisions, big and small, each day taking a lot of data into account. We are always faced with positive and negative consequences of a decision and we make the decision that makes sense taking ALL the data into account. The State HAS to present data that is potentially risking or the defense will nail when it is their turn. which is more damaging

        This shows the potential defense side of the story AND M2 is still appropriate.

      • tonya B says:

        @KA I totally agree with you 100%

    • Sophia33 says:

      I did not see today as a bad day, like I thought Tuesday. I looked at it as an information presenting day. More of a foundational day that didn’t hurt or benefit either side. It was just laying the framework.

  39. towerflower says:

    I went trolling and the Z supporters are awfully quiet on their sites. Nothing on today’s hearing at all. Wonder what’s up with that. Did they finally go underground where they belong?

    • Justice for Little Trayvon says:

      Wow, what a day for the prosecution, but when are they (the prosecution) going to bring up all the facts that prove murder 1.
      You know, like that Bad Man George got out of his car, and the Racist PROFILLED Little Trayvon. We all know Bully George followed Little Trayvon, and Little Trayvon was just Standing his Ground just like that Florida Law reads. Doesn’t the Asshole George know you can’t shoot an Unarmed Innocent Little Black Boy who is Standing his Ground, that that’s murder 1.

      • cielo62 says:

        JFLT~ They are not going for Murder 1, even though the evidence sure does point to it. They are charging Murder 2. Otherwise, the prosecution would need to convene a Grand Jury to bring Murder 1 charges.

        ________________________________

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          @JFLT: The prosecution can’t just pick any old witness and put on any set of facts they want to establish. You have to have certain witnesses to put only discrete parts of the case into evidence. The complete story, therefore, will be made up of sentences, paragraphs and even just exclamations, each made by different witnesses as appropriate for what they can say, either because of their training, experience or observations.

          People who know what trials are like, are not paying attention to what the attorney’s say, because that is not evidence. Only the statements made by the witnesses, and the items accepted by the court into evidence, are what the jury will have to base their decision upon. If a juror were to raise any claim, that were based on anything outside of what has been heard and accepted during the trial, they should be challenged and will have to discard that argument if so.

          Omar keeps making statements and remarks that he hopes jurors will be confused into thinking that it was evidence and not his remarks. But, in reality, so far, he has nothing he can use to make an effective closing statement with.

    • Malisha says:

      It is possible that someone has put the word out on them. Crazy Cracker went south saying he was gonna get all this incredible “bombshell” stuff on Trayvon that was gonna bust the case wide open. They found out who Rachel was. They have been spouting off like crazed Baskerville Hounds — perhaps someone got a little visit from the FBI asking if they were planning violence or conspiring to deprive someone of constitutional rights under color of state law. Who knows. It might very well be that some e-mail traffic gave some federal agency pause .,.. dahn da dahn dahn ….. Daaaaaaa!

  40. sparger says:

    I love how George is at once morbidly obese and much smaller than Trayvon at the same time.

  41. Since Don West is discussing the case with his daughters about witnesses, then maybe Bernie needs to bring this before the court about the photo.The defense shouldn’t be allowed to put Rachel Jeantel back on the stand just to attempt to humiliate her for his daughter’s pleasures.

    • jm says:

      Sorry but after today I think Bernie is incompetent. He let so many things fly with the medical provider I am more than discouraged Bernie is either not up to the task or is blowing this case on purpose.

      • JM

        I am soo disappointed with Bernie’s performance. I’m disappointed Bernie hasn’t been more aggressive when he’s had the chance.

      • Malisha says:

        I don’t think Bernie is incompetent. Not at all.
        If he’s gonna try to throw this case it won’t be for stupidity at all but for political reasons. Perhaps to show that the SPD shouldn’t be punished because after all it was an unwinnable case. Anything is possible. But I have not seen any evidence that he is beginning to LOSE so all that speculation is probably just “distress brought on by fatigue and loneliness.” We’re all tired. We’re all feeling the intense loneliness that was represented by Rachel’s presentation, without Trayvon in the world any more. We felt the existential loneliness called forth by the death shriek. We saw Sybrina’s eyes dart around in pain and we saw Tracy sobbing in the gallery. We’re hurt and tired and angry and I think we’re over-reacting to some minor disappointments in the last day.

        We saw that many witnesses SUPPORT Fogen but they couldn’t put on any evidence that would HELP him. Remember that. The biggest piece of evidence this WEEK in my opinion (that had not yet been revealed) was the MMA thing.

        We’re doing fine. Take six deep breaths and let them out slowly.

        Tray-von. (breathe)
        Benja-min. (breathe)
        Mar-tin. (breathe)
        will beeeeee (breathe)
        remembered (breathe)
        and blessed. (breathe)

      • aussie says:

        Guys, he does not have to prove every single tiny teeny little point.

        Let the defence torture a witness for an hour over a single word. All that really achieved was to burn Rachel’s testimony into the brains of the jurors.

        There are things the State is letting slide, to make them easier to forget. Or which they’ll later bring someone else for, someone better qualified, or someone to show it from a different angle. Or to lull the defence into thinking they don’t regard it as a big issue.

        This trial is a jigsaw puzzle. They’re leaving sections and moving on to another, then coming back. And in the end, if a few littler pieces are MISSING it does not matter – the total picture will still say MURDER 2.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I thought BDLR could have done better, but he also made many good points without being hostile and pushing the witnesses, which I think shows his experience and wisdom. He has an easygoing style compared to OM and West.

    • Judy75201 says:

      I’d say Don West is “disgusting” the case LOL.

    • type1juve says:

      Mr Don shouldn’t be allowed within 10 feet of any black witness in this case.

  42. PiranhaMom says:

    I have a question for Professor Leatherman –

    And including all the legal eagles aboard —

    After the prosecution brings ALL its witnesses in, has them examined by both the prosecution and the defense, setting the stage to REBUT the defense when the defense brings all its witnesses in (with the prosecution using SPD clips of GZ’s multiple claims and refuting them), then BDLR/team wraps up in a slam-bang closing argument — OR — big OR here — can O’Mara thwart all that by, at the end of the prosecution’s witnesses, by announcing “we rest our case and call for a dismissal” or equivalent?

    Thus denying BDLR the chance to rebut the defense’s few stupid witnesses, denying BDLR the chance to use the SPD videos, and denying the prosecution its Scud Missile closing argument?

    Sending the sequestered jurors home EARLY in appreciation – if they do acquit?

    O’Mara just gets to say “The prosecution has failed to deliver proof beyond a reasonable doubt that my injured client committed M-2 thus you must acquit. We rest our case.”

    How does the process work?

    Please tell me it’s not legally possible.

    • Beverly says:

      I think it can be done to say we are sure the State did not meet the burden of proof and move for a verdict….. so therefore the defendant is not guilty. That would be so extremely risky in this case, but it has happened.

  43. anita says:

    ~youallhave thoughtfulcomments, You’re100% right, I wasn’t raised to call young girls b——, but, I’s been a long week, I had knocked back 2 drinks. I would be ashamed for my mom to know I had referred to these girls like this. Sometimes we need reminded to be respectful. Thanks again, looking forward to next week. Hopefully more incriminating testimony against fogen

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      What a dear you are to take the time to understand my feelings about the word and to be so great to write me, anita!

      A toast to you!

      Enjoy your restful weekend!

  44. willisnewton says:

    GZ thinks he won’t have to testify I’m guessing at this point.

  45. riisey007 says:

    HLN just reported it but Valez says it was tweeted on Tuesday and that as before Rachel testified.

    • elle says:

      So they were making fun of Selene and that makes it better how?

      • riisey007 says:

        Elle, it does not make it better at all, it is absolutely disgusting how arrogant and cocky West is and how elitist he has raised his daughter. A lot of people assumed it was aimed at Rachel because everyone saw how bad he treated her. Michael Skolnik even brought it up tonight on Jane Vale show.

      • elle says:

        Their spin will be interesting. Can you imagine my child acting like that? I would be so ashamed.

      • elle says:

        Dang it: your child.

  46. RobertSF says:

    It looks like Molly West has deleted all her twits. I don’t do social media, but I do do photoshop. I took that ice-cream photo and made a little change to it.

    If you like it, distribute it.

  47. mobjack says:

    I think the MMA angle can easily turn the case around.

    Someone who practices 9 hours a week takes it very seriously. Would they really fear for their life if they got into a fight?

    Even if Trayvon was on top at one point, Zimmerman could easily counter it and get the advantage, especially if he weighed more.

    It would also give confidence to go an detain someone if you think they looked suspicious.

    • Rachael says:

      They might have to be careful with that though, someone who practices 9 hours a week and takes it seriously and still “felt he had to) resort(ed) to a gun might be (by some) believed that it was necessary.

      😦

      • HereslookingatYou says:

        the jurors are fools if they believe someone who claims they laid there all of 40secs couldn’t defend themselves for a minute more knowing police where on the way and the person claiming this trained in MMA and made NO attempt just blew this kid away

    • Malisha says:

      No need for the MMA thing to “turn the case around,” but in principle I agree to the notion. The case started off weighted for the prosecution because we have the facts and the evidence. It went heavily for the prosecution for three days while the defense smelled no better than an outhouse in August. Then the defense began to look slightly less hopeless because people heard that Fogen MIGHT have had a bump and he MIGHT have gotten sat upon for 10 seconds and he MIGHT have been near the T. But then it became obvious that he had no serious injuries and that he trained intensively — INTENSIVELY — as an MMA fighter, for six months, before marking, tailing and killing Trayvon Martin. He’s t-o-a-s-t and we should all go get ice cream cones to confirm it.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        The picture of Don West and his daughters mocking witnesses in a murder trial will cut my ice-cream calories for sure. I do not want to be like THEM.

  48. Sabrina B. says:

    Was it Florida where the man shot at the black teens in the car, killing one, at the gas station? I believe he claimed they intimidated him and he thought he saw a gun. He then went to the hotel to party afterwards only turning himself in the next day. I think this will become a problem if fogen is set free. Racists will know what to do and say after they gun down random blacks that may walk in their neighborhood.

    • towerflower says:

      That happened in Jacksonville, FL. His name is Michael David Dunn, he didn’t like their loud music and he got into a verbal argument while his girlfriend was in the store. He said he saw someone aim a gun at him and he fired in self-defense. He fled the scene when his girlfriend came out and he promptly left town to his home in Satellite Beach, FL (east Central FL). He didn’t count on someone getting his license plate and he turned himself in when word got out. This is another SYG that will go nowhere. The 4 kids, one of which he killed, were not armed.

      • aussie says:

        AFTER allegedly seeing the gun, he turned his back on them, walked back to his vehicle, got inside and got out HIS weapon.

        If he were really afraid for his life, and had managed to make it back to his own vehicle, the sensible way to save his life would have been to drive off. Or at least lie on the floor. NOT walk back towards them as a full-size standing target (after they dumbly neglected to shoot him in the back while they had the chance, as he first walked away).

      • Sabrina B. says:

        Thanks, I vaguely remember the details. It is pretty scary to think there will be more of this. If I lived in Fl. I would move.

  49. Big Willie says:

    I just realized, Trayvon must’ve got “crazy ass cracker”, from Chris Rock’s stand-up routine.

    • KA says:

      I bet you are right. Trayvon used many things in his social media posts that came from movies or songs….

      This is worthy of a distribution.

    • Malisha says:

      Trayvon Martin’s build — just like Chris Rock. Skinny, long drink of water. Compared to “obese” 205-pound MMA-trained muscle-bound side-arm-toting poster boy for anger management fail.

  50. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    Are any of the news channels reporting on the photo that Don West’s daughter posted?

  51. tharealkeisha says:

    I’m severely frustrated. They better get this one right. I can feel something bad happening.

    • Malisha says:

      Ever since Foge got a permit to carry a gun, something bad has been happening. But struggles against bad things are difficult and discouraging and they are STRUGGLES. So let’s take our vitamin pills and move forward.

  52. acemayo says:

    The news wants GZ free
    And the people like GZ to be able
    To kill male for any reason again
    From the bible
    to many other sources
    People believe black’s are evil

    • EdgySF says:

      I often wonder where it comes from…and I think you’re right.

      I have two friends deathly afraid of “snakes” because of the Bible. They came from fundamentalists Bible thumpers…

      It’s clear to me that people see through filters. When I see Rachel, I see beauty, tenderness, authenticity, intelligence, strength and sadness. But, apparently, people who are culturally isolated and spoiled see a non-human who is unworthy of respect much less credibility.

      Mollywest was “trained” by her family that she is better than “others.”

      She’s knows who Fogen was talking about when he said “those aholes always get away.” She knows who belongs and who is an outsider. She knows intuitively what he is really saying…what he means.

      I wonder how many white supremacists have been attracted to this case. Maybe West volunteered for this…maybe they thought he was a secret weapon because of his dedication and passion….

    • Malisha says:

      Only news stations with the “wagenda” want him free and enabled to kill pBa-lack kids. We’re in the midst of a battle here and we are winning; we don’t get every single hill but we don’t get discouraged either. We strategize.

  53. RobertSF says:

    As much as I support the prosecution, I have to say I think BDLR bungled Lindsee Folgate’s testimony.

    He didn’t ask about the drugs Zimmerman was taking.

    He didn’t get the PA to say that if Zimmerman had come in with bumps on his head, she would have noticed them.

    He didn’t get the PA to explain what “atraumatic” and “normocephalic” meant.

    He didn’t get the PA to talk about the cuts to the tip of Zimmerman’s nose, particularly whether they could have been the sole source of his nose bleeding.

    He didn’t get the PA to express skepticism that a pounding of the head against concrete would have produced such superficial injuries.

    He didn’t get the PA to convert the metric size of Zimmerman’s cuts to inches. Most people can’t visualize 0.5 cm, but most people know that a cut 3/16″ long is barely a boo-boo.

    He didn’t ask the PA if she knew that Zimmerman had a special chair at work precisely for sacroiliac pain.

    He didn’t ask the PA if Zimmerman’s two head lacerations would have been more consistent with rubbing against a sharp metallic object, like a sprinkler head embedded in the grass, than with slamming repeatedly against concrete.

    He didn’t ask the PA if Zimmerman’s assorted minor abrasions, so minor they were not evident the next day under examination, could be more consistent with rubbing against grass than hitting against concrete.

    He didn’t ask the PA if, clinically speaking, Zimmerman was a big stinking bag of poo. Ok, maybe not that question, but certainly the above. I sure hope BDLR has a medical expert in the wings to discredit Zimmerman’s story, but said expert will at best be going by photographs. Nothing could beat the medical practitioner who personally diagnosed Zimmerman.

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      You said it all at the end…. EXPERT… she is a physicians assistant.. set the defense up to show their cards…. the defense made some major mistakes this week…. we shall not forget that..

    • mobjack says:

      She gave good testimony, but O’Mara started using her as his own expert witness. Hopefully BDLR has a better qualified medical expert who won’t be lead so much by the defense to counter everything.

      • Sabrina B. says:

        I don’t believe he does. Which is why he got pissed and said what are the symptoms for a gunshot wound to the chest? He still could have emphasized fogen’s complaint more, something like “This man that had such a traumatic experience last night that he felt the need to kill a kid, came into your office the next day complaining of a prior problem with CONSTIPATION and STONES?!!”

      • mobjack says:

        I thought he was just mocking O’Mara when he asked that question about the gunshot.

    • towerflower says:

      There was a hearing early on about his medical records and the Judge went through them and decided what could and could not be brought in. I bet the drugs were on the out list.

    • uhoh says:

      I think the sidebar with JN limited the scope of BDLR’s direct exam. IIRC, five of the six jurors are mothers and know all about scrapes and cuts.

  54. dianetrotter says:

    from christculturenews.com about Don West and daughters
    Anyone who watched the last two days of testimony in the Zimmerman trial knows that West had a difficult time getting Jeantel to repeat words he tried desperately (and succeeded in doing at times) to put in her mouth. In addition, Jeantel spoke very low, had bad grammar (ebonics) and expressed attitude and impatience at times.

    This apparently means she’s “stupid,” if the conjectures about Molly West’s now deleted Instagram photo are correct.

    As you can guess, online users are not amused and have been throwing the “stupid” word back at the Wests for this inappropriate photo…especially since Ms. West’s father “killed it” during the murder trial of a 17-year-old (Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder). Check out some reactions:

    “Y’all hear about Don West’ daughter photo….she talkin bout stupidity but that’s the dumbest thing you can do when a case still in progress”

    “@Mollywestttt No, Molly West, you clearly have NOT ‘beaten stupidity’- you’ve enshrined yourself and father #DonWest in the Hall of Fame”

    “First Don West’s knock knock joke and now this stupidity. Privilege comes in many shades. @PiaGlenn @lolojones”

  55. Sabrina B. says:

    This photo of the “stellar” West, can this have consequences considering Rachel is still under subpoena? Could this be a form of intimidation?

  56. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    I wonder if Don West knew his daughter posted this photo with the caption on Instagram. I will reserve judgement as to West’s involvement, but his daughter has displayed terrible judgement. I’d say the smarter person is Rachel imo.

  57. John D says:

    This is a terrible tragedy

  58. YQ says:

    It’s about to look really bad for the defense when they compare these small bruises to a gunshot wound. Affirmative defense=meet force with force. They have to prove that the injuries were life threatening.

    • Ms.X says:

      They really don’t. The burden of proof is on the state.. Please don’t forget that.

      • YQ says:

        They just established the issue of GZs injuries today and the psychological state of GZ shortly after the killing. They even added that he trained in MMA.

      • Malisha says:

        But it’s not a comparison of injuries.
        It’s a story of what happened.
        Who did what to whom?
        Fogen aggressed upon, stalked and killed a kid.
        Buh-Bye!!!!

  59. Don West, what kind of culture is it when a defense attorney’s daughters belittle people they don’t know but yet refer to them as stupid?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      West and his daughters should make a public apology.

    • Romaine says:

      don’s just as bad, he took them to get the ice cream and probably was his celebration idea…I guess that’s good parenting

    • towerflower says:

      His daughters need to look in the mirror and thank the good Lord that they were lucky enough to live the life they have. Others aren’t as lucky to have the things in life or the education that Daddy bought you.

      Guess the apples didn’t fall from the tree after seeing the way West treated Rachel on the stand.

  60. Judy75201 says:

    @Boyd upthread: If there was actually a “fight”, how do you explain the lack of DNA on Trayvon’s hands? Just curious. Thanks.

    • Dave says:

      While I don’t know enough about DNA evidence to address that issue, I think that there has been enough eyewitness testimony to establish that there was some sort of a fight, probably a series of feints, misses, maybe a few light connecting blows followed by some wrestling on the ground.

      • Judy75201 says:

        I can definitely see a struggle, but there is no way there was a sucker-punch that broke a nose or even one grabbing & smashing of a head into concrete, much less two dozen.

      • Ms.X says:

        Yeah, but they make it seem like Trayvon was beating an armless george zimmerman. Why didn’t the police check either one for defensive wounds? A person who has been studying MMA for a year & a half just layed there & took the ass whipping? If Trayvon made those scratches instead of the tree or bushes, some kind of DNA evidence would’ve been found. He would’ve had bruising on his hands, BUT HE DIDN’T! Trayvon’s blood is crying out from the ground.

    • boyd says:

      Hey Judy no worries. I don’t care what it’s defined as and who got bruises. , Fogen started it.

      • Judy75201 says:

        Thanks Boyd. What I was really interested in was if you think a fist-fight can happen without leaving DNA?

  61. anita says:

    Just saw the photo of West & his f-ing girls, one of the most sick depraved, spoiled ass b—–s I’ve ever seen,but, look who raised them.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Are you new here, Anita?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I deplore what his daughters did but I don’t like your strong labels except for “sick” and “depraved”

      • anita says:

        Yes, I’m new. I first posted 12 days ago, more or less. I’ve been reading you guys for 8 mo. I feel I know most of you regulars, I have come to respect you guys. I promise I never posted on any blog, ever I only started here because of the way I feel about this case.I’m mid 50’s W girl, childless, animal lover, married, liberal, grew up midwest. Ask cielo62, she read my first post & welcomed me . Thanks for asking, Hoodies Up

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Welcome, Anita.

        I guess, as a woman, I do not like to hear or read the word “b….ch”

      • Woow! says:

        I don’t like to hear a women called that word either but in some cases it fits and this is one of them.

  62. EdgySF says:

    The irony is that it was really, really STUPID of Molly West to post that snap.

    Ohhhhhh, the irony!!!! She is such an idiot. She messed up BIG time.

  63. Sophia33 says:

    Can someone explain why I can only hear this theme song when Mr. Don speaks?

  64. EdgySF says:

    Molly West is the ultimate “mean girl.”

    How self-entitled, clueless and spoiled can a girl be?

    Truly appalling.

    Unfortunately, mollywesterners are not uncommon.

    • Nef05 says:

      Is Molly the one with the sunglasses, or the one with the unfortunate resemblance to her father?

      Just noticed. I’ve typed Trayvon’s name so many times the “T” key is blank on my keyboard. I’ve worn the lettering off.

  65. colin black says:

    We need photos from jail when he appeared before judge with his bald head.

    Can someone pc savvy scan for fogggagge in his prison blues an buzz cut .
    Try for angles we can enlarge an compare to thease alleged swllings an bumps on hjs noggin.

    Instant cure for foggagges constipation

    Jurours return none make eye contact with him an all look to Trayvons Parents and smile.

  66. crazy1946 says:

    I guess my processor is operating rather slow today, but it just dawned on me that about an hour before the end of the session a man with a blue dress shirt and tie entered the court room and went to a blonde headed younger lady and escorted her from the court room. I think I saw a badge at his belt line, but not positive on that. It now occurs to me that this man escorted Don (the weasel) West’s evil spawn from the courtroom. I hope he is proud of his spawn, they swim in the same cess pool that he dwells in….. If some one has this session recorded, please take a moment and check and see if what I saw is right… Thanks in advance…

    • colin black says:

      If its so it will be by design off privilege an not because of any real or alleged wrong doings on her behalf.

      She was escorted out of court an then to her car .

      Which another deputy would have valet for her.

      Wext would have demanded it as entitlement same as m o m would if he had family present.

      Same was the zimspin mob need escorts every where.

      There the familfY of a V I P

      VILE IGNORANT PIG.

      VERY IMINNENT PRISONER.

      VILLANOUS INSIDUIOUS PERVERT

      VIRTULLY INCAPABLE PRICK

      VALUELESS INEPT PRICK

      VOULANTRY INSANE PREDITOR

      VICIOUS INCCESSANT PEST

      VOCIFERIOUSLY INEPT PATROLER

      I could go on all night.

      VIOLENTLYGANGRAPED IN PRISON.

      .

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ooo, you’re pissed, Colin.

        One can only hope the daughter was escorted somewhere to be talked to about her cute (not) little post.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @crazy1946.

      That’s a nice-lookin’ serious intelligent-seeming guy … so I noticed him. Pays attention to the entire proceedings.

      JUST before he got up (I think he exited the courtroom, then returned to that line of seats, then beckoned the woman to come with him, and she did) I noticed he has an audio wire in his ear.

      Secret Service-style.

      I think he was called out to look at something (I expect it was a laptop outside the courtroom door, with that ice cream cone post), then he returned and called the woman to escort her out.

      My guess he’s with Alicia Corey’s team.

      May be some serious blow-back a-coming!

      • crazy1946 says:

        After seeing the “Ole Poop” look on both MOM’s and West’s face’s when they looked at the laptop, combined with the smug smile on BDLR when Judge Nelson asked if there was anything else that need to be covered today, and he said nothing that could not wait until Monday! MOM started to say something and then just basically closed his mouth for once and sunk back into his chair looking very much like he wanted to craw under the desk! Monday morning means he and West get to cry out to the tree slum for a way out of this fix they are in, over the weekend! The Japanese way with a sword would be very appropriate for West, but he is too much of a coward to accept that much responsibility for his actions. I predict that they will try to offer a fake apology instead. A gag rule is coming, that in and of itself will be good punishment for the movie star wanna be MOM! Can you imagine just how hard it will be for him to tell a reporter “NO COMMENT”? To those of you that have written off federal hate crime charges against the Fogdoit, I suggest you wait until the end of this trial, they will not and no one should ever think they would, file any charges against the Fogdoit or any member of the Sanford PD while this trial is still unfinished.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        ‘Bout time and well-deserved too.

  67. HereslookingatYou says:

    splainin—above typo

  68. HereslookingatYou says:

    the shot IT claims laying down is impossible without bending your elbow and it could not be a straight front to back…
    they will bring in the ME and firearms experts…
    plus how will the jury react to…I moved my other hand out of the way in order not to shoot it and I aimed and fired..IT has some spailin to do…

    • crazy1946 says:

      I would suggest you not actually try to recreate that scene, or you might cut your forehead and break your nose and get cuts on the end of your nose from the rear sight hitting you in the face…

      • HereslookingatYou says:

        LOL gotcha ..
        and I have no insurance to go get my likely…oh excuse me broken nose examined

    • fauxmccoy says:

      not just ‘moved its hand out of the way’
      but
      lifted up the photo button to place a precise shot (likely with gun muzzle)

  69. Woow! says:

    Off topic….

    Last year a 30 yr old male was driving drunk and veered into the opposite lane on a two way highway striking a car killing all seven of its passengers. This was his 4th DWI.

    The court never notified the family that this guy was only being sentenced to 35 years with the possibility of parole for good behavior. There were protests but the judge would not budge. This guy’s uncle/father was a former state senator.

    The supreme court says he must serve at least 85% of his 70 year sentence but the judge ruled can get out in 29 yrs.

    original story: http://theadvocate.com/news/police/3224805-123/report-gerald-drank-12-beers

    supreme court ruling: http://theadvocate.com/home/5973026-125/greensburg-man-who-killed-7

    A week later a man of Mexican heritage hit a family of two, 1st dwi and he got life. During that same time a black man on his second DWI killed no one and got 50 yrs.

    Being a minority in America is biotch…

    • Judy75201 says:

      I feel the tide changing. I really do. I know it’s too little to late, but I honestly expect BIG changes in the next decade, and I believe this case is the harbinger.

  70. gbrbsb says:

    Anyone know if the prosecution can vary their theory of what happened as the trial progresses ?

    • Nef05 says:

      Their theory is that it didn’t happen the way fogen said it did. There’s no need to change it. (IMO)

      • gbrbsb says:

        If the State’s theory is simply that it didn’t happen how GZ says it did then there is no reason to change that, but I had the impression they had a theory of exactly how it happened and if their theory follows more or less the most dominant here I think they may have to change it or come unstuck.

        I asked because something amsterdam posted along with the “punctate” abrasions MOM went on about, as well as the other abrasions, the tiny lacerations, and the alleged “bumps”, along with what Rachel and other witnesses have testified up to now, and added in the mix GZ´s “These assholes they always get away”, I think there is another theory not really looked at, at least in depth, which seems very plausible and provable and would mean GZ shot Trayvon while he was trying to get away.

        It would also fit with there not being any scuffing to Trayvon’s knuckles, nor any of GZ’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands. It would show that any cries for help GZ says he made and witnesses say they heard, (I have isolated several from the screams I think are his as they are in the same tone and cadence as his exemplars but nothing like the voice of the screams), were in fact him calling for someone to help him restrain Trayvon, which also fits with what he said during the re-enactment.

        The theory I’m thinking would also not have to debunk or disprove any of the witnesses, not one, because it fits with all their testimonies. Nor would it have to rely on the jury disbelieving several witnesses either which IMO may be a difficult leap for them.

        It wouldn’t even be important who was on top or bottom because it would mean Trayvon was indeed trying to get away, which, as amsterdam brilliantly observed, is the ONLY way they could have “moved” from grass to pavement without changing position as John described, i.e. with Trayvon on top and GZ holding on to him with one of his grappling techniques and being dragged along under him while Trayvon was pulling forward trying to get away. It would explain the mini abrasions on ALL parts of GZ’s head, not just on the back, as he was dragged and bumped along, as well as his being more wet at the back, and explain nobody hearing any punches, just scuffling. It would even explain John saying it could have been that the one on the top was trying to push the one on the bottom down… and away I add. Indeed it would explain so many things IMO as it all fits in place.

        Usual caveats, IMBW, IMHO, IANAL or forensic or whatever, and it is just a theory, but think about it, look back on the testimonies so far, it doesn’t contradict anything far which which has to be a bonus, and IMO at least it all makes sense and leaves GZ shooting Trayvon so he couldn’t get away like the other fucking punks that always did and so he couldn’t be arrested for illegally detaining someone !

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Okay, here is a link to a sketch of a man crawling.

        How do you speculate gz would be holding on? Would it be from an earlier grab to his sweatshirt?

      • gbrbsb says:

        @YAHTC
        Yes exactly, crawling like in the picture. Sometimes Trayvon could have been as high as that even higher perhaps, others pulled down by GZ’s grappling techniques, and with GZ holding on to anywhere he could as he was bumping his stupid head along the ground. GZ could have been grappling with his legs around Trayvon’s waist, legs, or hips, linking them around one of Trayvon’s legs, maybe at times grabbing Trayvon’s arms with his hands (remember he had no defensive wounds), grabbing at Trayvon’s T-shirt, hugging his waist, whatever he could at each moment, and maybe at one moment he grabbed Trayvon’s under shirt and thus left his blood on it. Or maybe with his hands, or at least one of them, he was simply desperately trying to get to his gun !

        Remember the flailing arms, the pushing down, but no sound of punches, hits, head hitting concrete, etc. only scuffling noises, noises on grass, etc. And remember too, none of GZ’s DNA on Trayvon, nor under his fingernails. And the I’m begging you, the long shrieks that now thinking could be someone as they are trying to get away because I still can’t see someone screaming with a gun pointing at them, at least I have lived that experience myself and with all my feistiness and temper I was as meek as a lamb.

    • Dave says:

      As I understand it the theory is simple;

      The defendant profiled Trayvon.
      The defendant pursued Trayvon.
      The defendant confronted Trayvon.
      The defendant murdered Trayvon.

      I don’t see anything to change.

      • Malisha says:

        Prosecution doesn’t need to prove exactly what happened at every moment. Even had Trayvon “thrown a [or “the first”] punch” and even if Fogen had injuries [besides the wuss cuts], they do not affect the elements of Murder-2 or the outcome.

        He chased Trayvon in a car. Demonstradum.
        He got out and chased him on foot. Demonstradum.
        He confronted him and did not identify himself as a harmless neighbor who was just checking up on things. Demonstradum and Admitted as well.
        No matter what scuffle ensued, his injuries were not serious.
        He deliberately aimed at Trayvon’s heart and shot him dead.
        He did not render aid, call for aid, or try to provide or arrange assistance to an injured youth on the ground in the rain.

        His. Ass. Is. In a SLING. (That’s Slang.)

        • dianetrotter says:

          Malisha, “Deliberately aimed at his heart” just went through me. You are right. He could have shot him in the thigh easier than the heart. Zimmerman was not trying to stop an attack. He was trying to kill him. Murder in the 1st degree.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @Malisha

        Prosecution doesn’t need to prove exactly what happened at every moment.

        I agree, Malisha, they most likely don’t, but more importantly, nor does GZ have to prove his version either, and if the prosecution don’t leave the jury with at least an idea of what could have happened, one that doesn’t include several witnesses in some sort of conspiracy, then the POS’s version could be the only one they are left with.

        Even if the defence proves without a doubt that GZ lied every which way he could, about the pursuit, about the sucker punch, about the fight, etc., IMO that may not be enough to overcome his claim of self defence, which, if I understand it correctly, which I think I do, under Florida law allows him to meet deadly force with deadly force (here is where Trayvon’s alleged deadly weapon, the concrete paving, put forward by the defence will come into play) even if he had been the initial aggressor, so long as the jury finds a reasonable doubt that he could have been in reasonable fear of his life or serious bodily harm.

        And that’s my problem with the theories to date. The visual witnesses heard so far have, IMO, sown, a lot of reasonable doubts both in respect of the the position of the two during the scuffle/fight and how it progressed, making it difficult to see without doubt that GZ is lying, while the PA reeled of quite a lot of information about the seriousness of any blunt traumas to the head, i.e. that any blunt trauma can be very serious, and that’s assuming the defence don’t bring a trauma expert to opine as well. Because, if the jury don’t already know that even a light blunt trauma to the head, without any bleeding, cuts, or immediate consequences, can be fatal, (e.g. Natasha Richardson), the defence I am sure will clarify this with an expert to explain it fully, perhaps even with the example I have given, and I cannot see any honest and upright medical expert disputing this.

        GZ’s argument of self defence does not arise during his pursuit, nor when he claims he was sucker-punched, only at the moment he shot Trayvon. It is at this point he claims to have been in fear of his life or serious bodily harm because Trayvon, armed with the concrete pavement was slamming his head into it, and there’s no denying he has some bumps and abrasions to prove at least that something happened. And the PA’s questionnaire ? Nausea, vision, tingling, etc. questions to ascertain if there were any consequences. The fact that the day after it became clear he had no serious injury is no more than hindsight. My bet is the defence will argue that how could GZ be expected to know they weren’t serious while his head was being slammed into the pavement. How could he know that one of the alleged blows would not leave him comatose, paralysed or dead? How many blows to his head would he be expected to take before shooting in self defence? indeed, I don’t think I even need to bet because they have been arguing this for a while now, iirc since they dropped SYG.

        IMO, for the prosecution to give the jury a plausible alternative to GZ’s hitting the concrete by Trayvon’s hand, and without having to argue that three, or more, intelligent witnesses, precisely those nearest to the melee, are wrong, lying or in a conspiracy, is IMO extremely extremely important to prevent this POS walking away from because of a “reasonable doubt”.

        IMO, the theory of Trayvon trying to escape with GZ holding on to him to prevent him from getting away while being dragged along, appears to fit everything while doing away with the need for conspiracies which IMO the jury will not easily accept. It fits with both witness and police testimonies, medical evidence, opinion and testimony, as well as fitting any forensic evidence, opinion and testimony, and leaves the defence’s claim of Trayvon’s “deadly weapon”, exactly how and where it would remain, as the ground under GZ over which he was dragged.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Ooops, sorry forgot something to do with the final blockquote. I will post the professor down thread to see if he can kindly correct it.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @GBRBSB.

      Your theory that Zimmerman shot Trayvon while Trayvon was struggling to escape, while Zimmerman was grasping Tray’s shirts and being dragged along by Tray’s super-human adrenaline-fueled attempt to break free and run – thus opening the space between Zimmerman and Tray sufficient for the gun to be deployed – and a very “lucky” shot by Zimmerman to prevent “the asshole from getting away,” holds water.

      Tears. Entirely possible.

      Trayvon drops & Zimmerman climbs aboard. Maybe he REALLY wondered if he shot him! Checking for exit wound.

      Rises in view of everyone.

      Concocts story …

      Yeah, gbrbsb. plausible. Very.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Thnx PM, but I could only form it because of amsterdam’s fulminating comment that the only way the struggling pair could, as john said, move from grass to pavement without any change in position whatsoever and with the dark hoodie on top, and John affirmed this more than once iirc, was if Trayvon was moving forward trying to get away and GZ was holding on (and I think to more than to just Trayvon’s T shirt, e.g. he could have had his legs round Trayvon in a grappling/wrestling position explaining why several witnesses saw only one person in the dark. As amsterdam said, the one on top absolutely cannot drag the one on the bottom if nigh horizontal because they need their hands.

        Apart from the fact I think it all seems to make sense and fit into place, I also like it because it requires no conspiracy theories either which I think the jury might find very difficult to accept.

      • willisnewton says:

        I agree with both you and amsterdam. Let’s assume for argument’s sake the very worst, that somehow TM was on top and wanted to harm the man underneath him who out-wieghed him so drastically. W6/John Good saw then first on the grass (he says) then on the sidewalk, and then the body ends up in the grass. How did they move so far if the person on top was acting to FIRST harm the other person and NEVER to get away, as GZ claims in the end of his utterly false narrative?

        If they rolled over and over, possibly that could be the case, but again think about GZ’s story – in his version(s) he NEVER once grabbed Trayvon with his hands, ever. It’s as though he HAD no arms or hands during the struggle at all, except to reach for his “cell phone” at first and his gun at the very end.

        No instead imagine the movement from grass to sidewalk to grass as one where the teen was able to be on top by luck or pluck, but the one on bottom was using his body weight as a anchor to hold the teen close down too him.

        What did John Good /W6 see briefly? “Hands going down.” Like they would be if Trayvon was trying to get OFF of someone who was holding them by the sweatshirt while laying on his back and stubbornly not letting go.

        It’s possible Trayvon bonked GZ’s nose with a head-butt in this position, after being chased and tackled. It’s PROBABLE that someone in this position would be trying to smother or poke at his opponents face – but seemingly this would have been BEFORE any nose bleeding. We know there was no blood or DNA from GZ On TM’s hands or under his nails.

        Imagine you are being held down by the person under you. Wouldn’t you try to move 90 degrees to twist your way off? If you managed to lift your opponent up a bit, might they not hit their head when you collapsed or lost “footing” with one of your hands that you were desperately crawling with?

        What’s most telling to me is what GZ leaves OUT. Seriously, who gets in a life or death struggle and does nothing with their hands?

  71. Sabrina B. says:

    After I thought about it for a while. Despite all that has happened, I think what will strike, jurors more is that he went to the doctor the next day and complained of constipation and tonsils and needing a note for work.

  72. Shari says:

    We should do a hashtag on twitter of #WebOfLies and tweet all the lies Fogen told. I just did one.

  73. disappointed says:

    The photo of west and daughters, did Bernie show him this? Is that when West walked out with his laptop right before the MMA stuff came in?

  74. Woow! says:

    I missed the PA testimony except for the first few minutes. From reading your comments I cannot tell what happened. Can someone recap for me.

    Also I would like to say this and it is not my intention to offend anyone on this board. I would like to express my opinion based off my own life experience.

    I am trying to keep the faith that justice will prevail and CAC will go to jail for the crime he committed. I have my doubts because being raised in Louisiana and Mississippi and seeing how the gold ol boy system works… the all white female jury has me worried. I still cannot understand why at least one black person did not get on that jury.

    I know that the ladies on the jury are mothers and not racist but I have a nagging feeling prickling up my neck that one of the jurors is going the cause a problem. Can someone calm my nerves.

    • Danita says:

      I think I might make the nerves worse, sorry but im scared this is not been a good week for us. I really hope BDLR has something up his sleeves. My god all of the witnesses so far seem to be backing the defense…..not sure where this is headed.

      • colin black says:

        YEAH SURE THING SCHOOL TEACHER SUNK FOGGAGE ON HER OWN THE PRIOR GOOD ACTS ADDED A BALL CHAIN AN ANCHOR

        An Rachell gave him concrete boots an suite for good measure
        GET IT

        Or are you retarded?

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      One of the jurors is a mixed race black/Hispanic woman with 8 children. So far I believe the prosecution has laid a great foundation that 1. Trayvon was being followed by GZ 2. GZ had pint up frustration that “suspects” were getting away with crime and he intended on detaining the one he just spotted to have him nice and captured for the police who were on their way. 3. GZ followed Travon in car then on foot until he was close enough for Trayvon to have a conversation with him. 3. A struggle ensued when GZ tried to detain Trayvon and a scuffle began. 4. No one really saw much but what they did see contradicts GZ’s story of what happened. 5. The injuries GZ sustained during the scuffle were not life threatening. 6. GZ murdered Trayvon out of a depraved mind of thinking he was in a life treating fight for his life and shot Trayvon out of ill will hatred or spite for criminals, but in reality Trayvon was begging for his life. 7. At the very least a manslaughter conviction is warranted because GZ created the whole situation which resulted in the death of a kid running home Scared…..

      Did that help?

    • riisey007 says:

      I am here living in the south now, I was born and raised here. I really am put off by prosecution. I can’t understand why they did not go for the jugular on so many things. It seems from watching hln that prosecution let everything get away from them. They are talking about the damage that John did to the prosecutions case but no one seems to be talking about the PA who sai Zimmerman has been participating in MMA type fighting 3 days a week, I am really curious seeing how this should have shined a light on Zimmerman as the one on top. I just don’t get that!! If prosecution is going to wow anyone it better be soon. I just feel like this poor kid is being made the butt of jokes. If prosecution doesn’t take over and lead this case it will look like Zimmerman was only charged to calm African Americans. This is gonna be a circus by the end.

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        The only thing I saw was the defense making a fool of them selves. They told jokes, possibly opened the door to previously inadmissible evidence to GZ’s past violent offenses, past medical history i.e seeing a psychologist, thrown temper tantrums, and had to be corrected on criminal law procedure all week long. The prosecution put those witnesses up there to testify, this is their case! BDLR knew exactly what they were going to say, they have set the defense up to put up their best defense so that they can rubut that shit away… when the real experts come it’s bye bye, clink clink for GZ’s ass…. This is a chess match, it’s not show them every thing you got at once…. Think about all the major mistakes that have been made by GZ’s defense in the first week…. the prosecution is doing great!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Some of the stuff you’re talking about will come in the closing statements. The PA can’t say that much about the MMA – only that she asked him about aerobic exercise to lose weight and he indicated he was doing MMA and it wasn’t helping.

  75. colin black says:

    am I on right thread yet ?

  76. boyd says:

    The professor should open Saturday with “The defense proved there was a fight”

  77. diary73 says:

    Did Don West’s daughter post a “We beat stupidity cones” Instagram yesterday?????? A picture of West and two females in a car with ice cream cones. Posted by someone with the handle Molly Westttt. My daughter just showed it to me a copy of it. I have the screen shot. I really hope that is someone else who is trying to get him in trouble and not actually a post by his daughter.

    • concernedczen says:

      Yes, that was West’s daughters and then they left the courtroom after it came out. There are news stories on it.

    • boyd says:

      would he have allowed it to be posted if there was not a sequester.

      it’s bullshit he’s out having fun and they are stuck in a hotel. NO TV,Radio or internet

      Can they hit the Liquor store? I’d get a half-gallon of courvoiser

    • elle says:

      I find it interesting that it is not okay for Trayvon and DeeDee to use “racial slurs”, but it is okay for his daughter’s friends to use them on Twitter. Hmmmmm….

  78. ay2z says:

    Defense had big points today, But still, doesn’t mean that Trayvon or anyone, has not got the right to defend themselves when tracked down and caught in a dark ‘alley’ area. He doesn’t have any right to respond or fight to get away if the other guy is able to pull his gun and kill him.

    That right is outweighed by the right of the man to clim self-defense by shooting to kil and effectively keeping quiet, anyone but himself.

  79. Donna Flores says:

    I am so pissed at the State, they could have done way better. Could he have asked her if those injuries could have been sustained from rolling on the ground, or the recoil of the gun or falling on the cement. GRRR..

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yes. I was disappointed they didn’t mention that. But they may have reasons – other more compelling evidence or arguments.

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        Remember… This door is still OPEN! she was a medical assistant…. They will get a read doctor to bring home those points… there is more to the bruising being gone the next day… think about it! beyond a reasonable doubt… put the doubt out there plane as day… Then rebut it with an even more credible witness!

    • Dave says:

      O’Mara was going after “reasonable doubt”. The defendant MIGHT have suffered head injuries that COULD have been serious and MIGHT have been caused by his head being slammed onto concrete POSSIBLY on the evening of 2-26-2012.

      Is this enough to raise a reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors about whether the defendant, at the moment that he pulled the trigger, was not in reasonable fear of imminent death or grievous bodily injury?

      The defendant’s entire case rests on those little bumps and scratches.

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        Exactly, they will get a real medical expert.. a doctor to crush the doubt by explaining that his injuries were superficial at best…. laying a foundation to build a house!

    • dianetrotter says:

      They will probably call an expert to discuss how the gun works.

    • Malisha says:

      My question is why prosecution did not effectively object to the defense calling for speculation on the part of the PA when she could not reasonably speculate as to the etiology of any injuries she saw. That’s just NOT in her bag of tricks. Was he too tired?

      • jm says:

        Sorry for Bernie fans, but I have always felt he was incompetent with little strokes of brilliance but overall, I think he is not up to the task. He is going to blow this. The other prosecutors are way more competent and I wish Bernie would sit down and shut up. Nice guy but incompetent.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The prosecution realizes that the best way to deal with Omar is to let them get their heads as far into the noose as they can, before pulling the chair out from beneath them.

      Bernie may have a real doctor come in and explain what the PA said and why it was wrong. But for now, it’s sufficient to have the jury note that, none of the injuries she diagnosed in the photo today, did she find present and document in her real physical exam of the patient, contemporary with his appointment.

  80. Two sides to a story says:

    Oh my gosh, the West family ice cream cones are from Chik-fil-a, which shows you something about their politics – I boycott Chik-fi-la for their ugly treatment / rhetoric about the gay community.

    http://www.dailydot.com/lol/george-zimmerman-don-west-selfie/

    • disappointed says:

      We boycott chick-fil-a also. As far as the caption is concerned it does not surprise me that these people think they are better than Rachel. To me the fact he decided to defend a child killer says a lot about his character. It is one thing to defend but to smear the deceased, well I think that sums it up.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “does not surprise me that these people think they are better than Rachel”

        LOL – she held her own. She’s not stupid and he’s stupid and so are his daughters if they think so.

        Pathetic.

    • type1juve says:

      The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. We’ve seen their stupid dad in action so I’m not surprised. On another note, RJ owned his ass this week in court.

    • gbrbsb says:

      I cannot believe it. That is disgusting. If they are referring to Rachel, what right have they… sorry I forgot, they do have a right, the right dollars gives them to look down on others less fortunate… wow, and a lawyer, upholder of the law, teaches his children this kind of prejudice and classist behaviour !

  81. Tzar says:

    He had her on the ropes and did not realize it.
    Hematomas do NOT resolve overnight, they are subcutaneous collections of blood that resolve over several days (through phagocytic mechanisms) and they are often accompanied by ecchymosis or visible purpling of the skin
    that was a huge mistake by Omara to use that terminology and have her agree to it and an even bigger mistake for BDLR to let him get away with it
    UNLESS
    Since State was present at deposition, I must assume he chose not to review and prepare to destroy him for using that terminology.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The state countered it a bit with the dialogue about bumpy heads. And the PA said she didn’t note hematomas at the examination – OM was talking about the picture with the injuries and not as Fogen actually looked when she saw him.

      • Tzar says:

        that is the point
        if “HEMATOMAS” are not present on Monday then they were not there on sunday
        now the usual inflammatory bump from interstitial fluid extravasation secondary to blunt trauma wil go down someone with ice an pressure
        but once there is blood involved, the red blood cells have to be removed by inflammatory cells through the lengthy process of phagocytosis (eating them). the process often leads to hemachromatosis, the release of hemoglobin molecules in the tissues which leads to the yellowing you see in the skin several days after a severe skin bruise.

        Point being
        1. the bump from the blood will be there the next day
        2. the discoloration will persist for a while with hematomas

        so there is no fucking way that a head with several subcutaneous hematomas should be examined as normocephalic and atraumatic the next day!!!

        so if he wanted to he could completed shook her up.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Tzar, I love your post.

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        Tzar please send this talking point to Michael Skolink his press coordinator email is Rachel@noerdlingermedia.com excellent post!

    • Tzar says:

      Remember the very next day she examined him as normocephalic atraumatic

      this contradicts her testimony that he had a hematomas on his scalp the day before

      even worse she mentioned the potential risk of epidural hematoma
      which have a very specific neuro-clinical sequelae and the sine qua non of “worst headache of your life”
      Zimmerman definitely did not have that and if she was a good clinician should not have even spoken those words in this context.

      • jm says:

        Medical provider was bad and Bernie was bad not knowing the mistakes she made.

      • boyd says:

        I’m not in medicine but I could tell she was going beyond her pay grade speculating, trying to help her patient so he comes back.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        There’s a larger picture here.
        This Prosecution has a plan, and they make any point they can in later testimony.
        Ya Got It?
        Big eyes, folks, Big Eyes.

    • kllypyn says:

      there was no hematomas. i just looked it up and saw pictures he had nothing

  82. YQ says:

    Now, where were we? The Stand Your Ground statute reads….

  83. towerflower says:

    I wonder what some of these experts are seeing vs what we saw. Not one mention of the MMA experience. They are all praising MOM and saying they left the jury to mull over his extensive injuries. Said that a dismissal is in the bag.

    I thought it was brilliant on BDLR to have both Jon testify about the MMA and then the PA talk about fogen’s MMA training. Now put two and two together jury.

  84. Sabrina B. says:

    Trying to be optimistic. BDLR is doing the best he can. Got some excellent points in concerning MMA and head lumps. MOM is slick at getting witnesses to cast doubt on their answers. It takes a lot of slime to be proficient at that. Bernie seems like a wholesome, righteous man and can not stoop to that level. There is still the jury of moms to take into consideration. Nothing else will tell me that child did not have a right to walk home without being chased and eventually shot.

    • type1juve says:

      Yes, and he did give that jury something to think about over the weekend.

    • boyd says:

      he ain’t slick unless you are a little slow. he tricked both Johns today

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Are the girls in that photos both his daughters?
        The one in the back. lick, lickling with her tongue?
        Not one of them asked if Daddy was to hard on the girl?
        I think I should shut up before I say something really mean.
        It always works out, in the end, doesn’t it?
        Just imagine.

    • boyd says:

      Rachel was well aware West was trying to get her to change her answers/ If people do change them , they don’t care. or their slow

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I am worried the mothers might not see persons browner skinned than themselves as meriting equal treatment under the law.

  85. Grrr thunderstorm knocked out my internet connection. Did Bernie do well on cross? Is the PA thru testifying?

  86. YQ says:

    Zimmerman has to testify.

  87. type1juve says:

    This lying mofo was getting MMA training 9 hours a week and he would have us believe he just laid there like a rag doll getting his ass beat. God please don’t let the jurors fall for this stupid shit!

  88. Dave says:

    9 hours of MMA training per week plus regular shooting practice ($.75-$1.00 a round). It’s no damn wonder he couldn’t pay his bills and was flunking out of college.

    • tonya B says:

      DON WEST AND HIS DAUGHTERS MAKIN FUN OF RACHEL

      • tonydphotog says:

        So wrong.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Tar, feather, rail, out of town for all three of those perverts…..

      • crazy1946 says:

        Hmmm, this was from a man who said he had no knowledge of anything involving the internet, who also by the way touch types on his laptop! Some how I suspect this is what I think BDLR was showing the defense, look for a motion to silence MOM and his openly racist side kick West come Monday morning! Actually it would not surprise me if West requested to be allowed to drop from the case come Monday, I don’t think this would look very good to the Bar if a complaint was filed about something like this happening during a trial…. IMO

      • Two sides to a story says:

        West is stupid to think he bested her. She definitely bested him.

      • dianetrotter says:

        This is a form of bullying. It is insensitive and unprofessional. It shows what he is teaching his children. He really needs to be reprimanded ASAP.

    • Are you sure they are his daughters? It looks like he picked them up on the side of a street.

      Am I thinking like a lawyer now?

    • bellesouth says:

      Aha! That’s the pic of Don West with a daughter or two, caption: “We Beat Stupidity” That was what was shown to Don West and O’Mara. Oops. Who’s stupid now?

  89. Romaine says:

    question: since the defendant claimed his was a victim of a brutal attack wouldn’t the state pay for his injuries under the violent crimes fund/act? which would mean he would suffer no monetary loss

  90. MedicineBear says:

    Good on Bernie — the last thought he left in the jury’s mind before the weekend break was: compare the killer’s little boo boos to A FATAL GUNSHOT WOUND TO THE CHEST!!! Plus cac practicing MMA 9 hours a week! Way to play the clock Bernie!

    • Deborah Moore says:

      And, That Is A Note to those who fret over how he’s running his case.
      Big Picture. Eye On the Prize.
      (and, a note to Ms. X who said she wanted the prosecution to be more hungry.
      Don’t be so much about shallow appearances.
      They wouldn’t be even prosecuting this case if they didn’t think they have the evidence to convict.
      You just got to have some faith.
      (I choose that over cynicism.)

  91. Tee says:

    I recorded all of today’s testimony did anyone from the gym testify for the prosecution today?

  92. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    Well we haven’t had the medical examiner testify and we haven’t had Chris Serino testify. So there is plenty more to come.

  93. MrSykes says:

    Anyone hear about the pic circulating of Don West celebrating with his daughters over ice cream cones sometime after opening arguments? “We beat stupidity” is the caption. Looks like it may be going viral.

  94. crazy1946 says:

    I don’t know what BDLR showed MOM and West on the computer, but what ever it was it caused an oh poop look on their faces! Monday morning should be interesting to say the least!!

  95. dianetrotter says:

    You guys are awesome. Thank you for responses to my CAC concern.

    • crazy1946 says:

      dianetrotter, have a wonderful weekend! Go take a walk on the river front, but wait till this evening until it cools a little, and enjoy the night..

      • dianetrotter says:

        I’m in Fontana, CA, but will go to LR July 3. There’s a lot of action on the river front. I’m also going to Hot Springs Village. I plan to buy a house there on one of the lakdes! You have a great weekend too.

    • DruDo says:

      diane, I used that term a while ago, but apparently missed a discussion regarding that. (I had dr’s.appt this aft.) If I had realized it’s now not acceptable, I would have chosen another way of describing Zimmerman. I just went with the flow, but will now choose my words carefully. Being reprimanded and finding out afterwards that it’s a no-no isn’t particularly pleasant.

      • Beverly says:

        I do not think you have to worry quite so much. It certainly is not a compliment, but more on par with redneck which can be taken any number of ways. Yes, it is not at all politically correct, but it does not have the tone of a racial slur that I have ever heard.

      • dianetrotter says:

        No one’s reprimanding …. I don’t thing. I do appreciate your concern.

      • dianetrotter says:

        Beverly, I wish my fingers worked better. THINK
        To Crazy1946 … I meant LAKES

      • DruDo says:

        Beverly, I’m not worried, just very surprised that someone described it as a racial slur. I have never heard it used as a racial slur, either, and if I had, I wouldn’t have used it, particularly if I had been aware there had been a discussion about it. Oh, well, learn something new every day, I suppose.

    • MedicineBear says:

      I appreciate that you feel differently, but I will continue to use CAC in solidarity with Trayvon and Dee Dee. THEY called him exactly right and I honor that pure, honest recognition. If this CAC had been honestly called on his tish earlier, Trayvon and those who loved him would not have had to pay the ultimate price that disingenuous “PC” taboo words cost.

      In Clark Gable’s famous words, “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn” (Shocking! “Damn” was an offensive term during that time).

      We need to listen to the young people who “get” what our older calcified sensibilities won’t let in — they can teach us. Kids like Trayvon and Dee Dee are the revolutionaries breaking down oppressive inequality, intolerance, and bigotry by taking back the power of “taboo” words. They are the founding fathers and mothers of a healed humanity. The first step in healing a CAC is to call it what it is. Let us learn THAT from Trayvon and the brilliant Diamond. Cheers!

  96. Deborah says:

    Zimmerman had Mixed Martial Arts training and was seeing a psychologist. Great job Bernie — let the jury sleep on that for the weekend.

  97. dianetrotter says:

    Because he does MMA 3x a week, they should question rather or not some knots could be attributed to his exercises.

  98. boyd says:

    what? they can’t do anything on the weekend? wtf. If I’m a juror, I simply find out who asked for this sequester and fry his client.

    • Nef05 says:

      Think about next weekend. The 4th is on Thurs. They might be off on Friday, too? Though JN is trying to get this done, so maybe not. But, if they do – that’s Th, F, S, Su in sequester.

      No cookouts, no picnics, if they’re lucky the state might spring for hot dogs/burgers, chicken/ribs, roasted veggies, and sides – but everyone knows that’s not like being home with family and friends. Kids running with sparklers, fireworks, cold beer, fresh lemonade, Margaritas by the pitcher, peach cobbler, pecan pie, Red/white and blue strawberry/blueberry shortcake with fresh berries and cool whip, deviled eggs…
      I’d be pissed. I think I just made myself hungry… 🙂

  99. Shari says:

    I may have to stop watching. This man has NO LIFE THREATENING WOUNDS. Why are people thinking the PA HELPS him?? You can’t kill someone for those small knicks!!!!!!!

  100. chi1224 says:

    I have some dinner guests coming and I have nothing ready lol….. so I gotta roll even though I want to read all your comments, have a great night everyone. HOODIES UP!!

  101. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    What a day! I wonder why Don West didn’t do as much today as he has done on other days.

    • Moreover, when it was is turn, he would get MoMs advises very often I noticed.

    • Beverly says:

      I think the team is really unfortunate. West looks unhealthy or he should have a hair transplant. Surely he cannot be really that bald that he could not grow some side hair rather than be completely and ghastly bald. And O’M is so long-winded he will bore people to death; he seems to prevail b/c folks just can’t take it any more, but I am not sure that is a winning strategy.

    • dianetrotter says:

      After seeing the Instagram, it is obvious why he sat his A** down today. He might not be there Monday.

    • Ice cream brain freeze, perhaps?

  102. smokeegyrl says:

    I bet she won’t be his doctor anymore.

  103. DruDo says:

    3 days a week, 3 hours a day of MMA, but he feared for his life from a skinny kid.

  104. Brandy says:

    Wow!!!!!! Bullshit question!!!!

  105. Two sides to a story says:

    LOL – OM couldn’t snake out of the MMA.

  106. disappointed says:

    3 wks 3 hours a day. Gun shot wound to chest.

  107. boyd says:

    the psychologist eh? we get to bring in the drugs, what they do, etc etc, and side effects.

  108. lurker says:

    MMA–3 hours/day, 3 times/week.

  109. chi1224 says:

    This witness has swung things in the states favor, imo. Fogen’s “injuries” are a joke. No lets talk about Trayvon’s HANDS with NO injuries! Sorry if you are throwing punches your knuckles get abrasions, I know this for a FACT. I worked in a prison and treated MANY people who were in fights. We always documented the hands, and they ALWAYS had abrasions! This kind of stuff needs to come out to expose Fogan’s lies!

  110. Deborah Moore says:

    Go Bernie. Break this chick. I know someone who is an EMT. Took her years to finally get certified. This EMT reminds of the person I know. Hungry, eager to strokes, attention, 15 minutes of fame. Sorry, EMT chick. I’m biased and I don’t like the way you are speculating Way beyond what you know.
    She doesn’t know Bernie could eat her for breakfast before he picks up his NYT.
    PS – Grrrrrrr.
    PS – To Malisha from earlier – Keep Truckin’. Ha.

  111. bellesouth says:

    He can afford a psychologist and MMA training three times a week!

    • Deborah Moore says:

      But, not rent.
      Let’s see what special attention he can afford while in jail.
      ‘Cause that’s where he’s going.

    • gbrbsb says:

      But not an X-ray on his nose !

      • Deborah Moore says:

        He’s a sad boy.
        He’s made mistakes.
        He’s a liar.
        Bye Bye, Georgie Porgie.

      • ladystclaire says:

        To be honest, I don’t see how they can get up in front of the jury, and say he had a broken nose when in fact they have NO medical proof as in X-rays. as for his head injury, Trayvon is not responsible for those little very MINOR lacerations that he himself could have caused himself, when he walking around in pitch darkness, he could have very well knocked himself in the head with the butt of his gun.

        If he didn’t do it, one of his fellow racist neighbors helped him out with those boo boos. there was a photo on one of the threads here, with a link to a web site, where a man with facial tattoos on his face, who also had a bloody head that is IDENTICAL to that of Fogens and, I believe this should be brought to Bernie’s attention.

        Both of the photos they entered are not real and, the state needs to call them out on it.

  112. My Forehead Tho says:

    Bernie needs to rephrase his questions. The witness will never admit to a definite answer like ” Fogen didn’t have…”. He should instead say “It’s highly unlikely that Fogen had…”

    Having her constantly correct him isn’t a good look

  113. bellesouth says:

    Mom looks pissed!

  114. gbrbsb says:

    If he can afford a psychologist why not an x-ray of his nose ? GZ’s and the defence’s argument about his fear of the cost does not make sense.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      He needed to have the psych sign off on the Adderall and any other psych drug. Most MDs won’t prescribe these.

    • DruDo says:

      He can afford MMA 3 times a week, but can’t afford medical care for his boo-boos. Didn’t she say he has insurance? He didn’t want to go to the emergency room because he knew his boo-boos didn’t add up to “life-threatening” and he’d be busted.

  115. Romaine says:

    y doesn’t Bernie ask how the visit to the doctor was paid

    • gbrbsb says:

      And how could he afford a psychologist but not an X-ray ?

    • ladystclaire says:

      We all know why he refused medical transport that night because, he knew he had no broken nose and there was also no head banging on concrete took place either.

      He also knew they would have done a blood draw on his ass and, that they would have found a mixture of alcohol as well as his meds, which when mixed makes for a pretty potent combination and he knew that.

      It’s really something how someone can kill a kid in cold blood and, have a support base because of the victim’s race. this murderer has been treated better than any other murderer, in this country. he has also managed to bring out his fellow racist all over the country. these very same people have done nothing but disrespect Trayvon and his family as well as his friend Rachel.

      Ignorance is bliss and, it has infected all fifty states that make up the U,S.A. because, some in this country think it’s more than OK to chase, confront and kill a 17 year old kid because of his skin color and nothing more. like Mr.Guy said, he didn’t shoot Trayvon because he had to, he shot Trayvon because he wanted to.

  116. fauxmccoy says:

    here we go with the psych … keep going bernie!

  117. YQ says:

    Bernie’s turn…

    Bernie knocking down the cards… O’Mara scowling in the background..

    BERNIE RULES OUT SEVER TRAUMA COMPLETELY!!!

    He rules out ENT while he’s there…

  118. DruDo says:

    “Story”=Fairy Tale=Lies

  119. chi1224 says:

    Something else, Bernie should ask, could someone scream if they were choking on blood from the nose!

  120. gbrbsb says:

    She noted ATRAUMATIC Bernie, ATRAUMATIC… please ask her what it means.

    • disappointed says:

      Haha! Psyche doctor.

      • Tzar says:

        no not the psych
        her
        normocephalic atraumatic is specific language that refutes all of OMara’s bullshit
        he needed to corner her
        she had to either discredit herself as a diagnostician or discredit her previous testimony

    • Tzar says:

      Yup
      normocephalic atraumatic is specific language that refutes all of OMara’s bullshit
      he needed to corner her
      she had to either discredit herself as a diagnostician or discredit her previous testimony

      • gbrbsb says:

        I know, just that I forgot the “normocephalic” which I remember looking up at the time.

        I am angry. Bernie did not point this out and ask her to explain exactly what it meant. He started to by saying she had said a lot of big words and could she explain, but then bungled it by getting her to fix on the nose alone when his whole self defence claim rests on the head. And IMO this is so so important, because wrongly or rightly I am convinced the trial will boil down to self defence and GZ isn’t claiming he shot Trayvon in self defence, i.e. “in fear of his life”, when he was allegedly sucker-punched by Trayvon, but when he claims Trayvon was banging his head on the pavement. It’s ONLY at the time he shot can GZ claim self defence NOT before.

        I am furious with the defence today. I just hope they either have something forensically stunning, which I can’t help doubting, an expert on trauma and they bring it up then, or that the jury has a dictionary, better a medical one, and decides to look it up.

        • Tzar says:

          They ought not expect he jury to use a medical dictionary to parse this out and there is a low probability that they could.
          this is the state’s job!

          • gbrbsb says:

            Are you sure Tzar? The jury can’t be expected to know and the trial cannot cover every single word. Here in the UK the jury can and does ask for clarifications, definitions, maps etc. if relative.

            If not please someone tweet it loud and clear so the Defence may get it because I don’t see how they can bring it back in so at least it should be noted in closing, or asked of another expert… or can they bring her back even though she was fully dismissed ?

            I hope I am wrong, but IMO it is imperative that everything about what she saw to do with his head be crystal clear clear to them.

      • Malisha says:

        @gbrbsb, angry with the prosecution today, right?

        Appalled at the defense, angry with the prosecution?

        But I think it’s OK; I think we’re chugging along just fine.

        • jm says:

          Normocephalic, atraumatic head means there is nothing wrong. If that is what the medical provider put in her notes, it means her notes are not to be trusted, any more than Jon’s testimony who does not know the difference between vertical and horizontal.

  121. Two sides to a story says:

    Important redirect. Bernie is bringing it back to reality – all the PA saw was two small lacerations, swelling of nose, SI pain.

  122. Elizabeth says:

    OH for chrissake!
    Objections! Hearsay as to how he got any injuries at all.

    Was he lucky to escape with is life?Geez!

  123. disappointed says:

    Thank God Bernie ask these questions about skull.

  124. Brandy says:

    Bring it Bernie!

    • ic2fools says:

      OkAY! Time for Kokopellis’ gym witnesses! Time for Kokopellis’ videos I don’t care if Fogen is just walking in the door.

      Bring it Bernie!

      Hand duh-fense their lies to them on a silver platter!!!

      • jm says:

        I don’t like the way Bernie crossed this medical provider. She states GZ had black eyes. He has black eyes today. Is that hereditary or caused by a possible broken nose? She was very vague and said the lumps were not documented. If there were lumps would she have documented them. Was that an oversight in her medical records.

        • ic2fools says:

          It wasn’t an oversight, if she saw them they would have been documented.

          My thought is those were knots he already had and she had seen before and/or use to seeing because of his intense MMA workouts.

          Fogen needs to go on somewhere with that mess of lies.

        • ic2fools says:

          I;m not worried about Bernies’ cross of the medical provider. I am more concerned about Bernie questioning Kokopellis’ gym witnesses and has the State been able to acquire videos of Fogens’ intense MMA exercise. Did those intense MMA exercise include sparring, when was the last day he was at the gym before 2/26?

          I believe all of us are about to be shocked as we are about his intense MMA exercise 3 times a week.

      • Malisha says:

        On 2/27/2012 his “black eyes” were from Nurse Maybelline.

        Knock Knock.
        Who’s there?
        Nurse May.
        Nurse May who?
        Nurse Maybelline here, Fogen, to put on your black eyes.

  125. gbrbsb says:

    Oh please, how the fuck could Trayvon in the dark, without a torch or two, in the those few seconds, have known that his attacker was shaven !

  126. YQ says:

    MOM is trying to evade the traps, the jurors might not think that those injuries look so vital now…

    …improving his way through the med report and trying to pin her to “fatal injuries”…

    he got “residual effects”, all of these are just possible injuries now..

    Zimmerman looking disturbed, demoralized.

    O’Mara on bandages… he encounters another trap, the injuries are continuing to shrink out of play…

    O’Mara emptied out…

  127. Brandy says:

    geeze Omara, thou PROTEST TO MUCH, coming off a little desperate

  128. Leisa says:

    She did see those injuries and did not cover them the next morning so why did Shellie feel the need to cover them?

    • towerflower says:

      show, show, and more show

    • ladystclaire says:

      That dizzy witch (B) covered them for his debut of his reenactment with Serino. this was only done for cause and effect and, IT MADE HIM LOOK LIKE THE VILLAGE IDIOT THAT HE IS.

      BTW, I didn’t think those fake ass pictures were going to come in as evidence. why didn’t the prosecution object to those fakes and, when are we going to get to his sealed evidence or will we?

  129. DruDo says:

    Bernie, where are you?

  130. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Does O’Mara realize that he is showing gz’s boo boos to a jury full of MOTHERS??

    They can recognize that those boo boos are no big deal.

  131. gbrbsb says:

    Ok so MOM is aware of all the comments on the huge butterfly plasters and is trying to cover that.

  132. MrSykes says:

    “It doesn’t necessarily have to be bandaged.”

  133. disappointed says:

    no band-aid needed.

  134. Brandy says:

    Another reason GZ is constipated, he is COVERING his ass lol
    sorry, just releasing some frustration here with humor 🙂

  135. disappointed says:

    Nursing student, haha

  136. Beverly says:

    O’m acts likes he expects to seduce the answer that he wants from the witness; repulsive and inappropriate.

  137. FactsFirst says:

    Did she just say, “GZ was ALREADY seeing a psychologist”? Another door opens???

  138. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Over doing it…. non-life treating

  139. Nellie Nell says:

    I don’t think she is feeling MOM

  140. Brandy says:

    How can this doc know what his intentions are in this examination, pure speculation

  141. gbrbsb says:

    Back/bottom of spine pain from falling on his back… that’s laughable because GZ clarified in the re-enactment he didn’t fall on his back but stumbled along up the T.

  142. lurker says:

    Object Bernie–asking her to conclude whether or not Zim was using her as a shill!

  143. ic2fools says:

    MOM you can twist this or fix it, you fool. Intense MMA exercise, come on now.

    MOM prove those injuries are not from that intense MMA exercise, oh yeah that is right Bernie is up next!

  144. fauxmccoy says:

    did o’mara open door to the psych meds???

    already seeing a psych.

  145. Tzar says:

    he has a complaint of SI pain
    that is no the same as having an SI injury

  146. gbrbsb says:

    All of the small abrasions could be consistent with what amsterdam concluded about how John saw them move while on the ground, i.e. horizontally, without changing position from the grass to the pavement with GZ hanging on to Trayvon who was trying to escape and therefore dragging GZ along with him.

  147. DruDo says:

    Even if TM did punch him in the nose, he would have been defending himself against GZ in the first place.

  148. Brandy says:

    Fogens head is evidence, they need to shave his head and see what his scalp looks like now and compare with incident photos

  149. type1juve says:

    I sure hope Bernie can clean this mess up!

  150. disappointed says:

    thrown on ground? thought he fell down? hit in nose and fell down right there?

  151. fauxmccoy says:

    BMI based on height to weight very inefficient. muscle mass is best determined through either calipers or submersion, will not show up in height to weight comparison.

  152. MedicineBear says:

    Would these injuries be consistent with the person running into a tree? Consistent with a self inflicted wound?

  153. boyd says:

    Did trayvon dent his head in?

  154. towerflower says:

    His BMI does not mean he is not athletic……

  155. MrSykes says:

    Most athletes have BMI’s in the “obese” range.

    • PerfectlyImperfect says:

      Very true.

    • BillT says:

      running backs in the nfl with almost NO body fat are “obese” under the BMI……..ost of the players in the NBA would be called obese under the bmi….any person that works out and develops muscle MASS is obese according to the bmi…it measure body MASS and in no way addresses fat content.

  156. lurker says:

    Oh–poor baby, not healthy.

  157. disappointed says:

    Normal if he takes adderall

  158. Tzar says:

    hilarious
    what did his head look like before?
    what does it look like now?

  159. fauxmccoy says:

    ‘hight points’ … like his meds???

  160. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Ask her if those little bumps on his head could be the beginning of horns.

  161. ic2fools says:

    Fogen knots came from MMA exercise at the gym that week! I hope State introduces videos of Fogen working out/MMA fighting at the gym that week.

    Bernie is about to hand MOM his and Fogens knots to him on a platter.

  162. RobertSF says:

    In carpenter’s terms, the two lacerations are 3/4″ and 3/16″ long.

    I sure hope the state has a separate medical expert to establish that smashing a head against concrete would result in much, much worse trauma than a couple of little cuts.

  163. tonya B says:

    oh just wait I bet Bernie is about to fall out his seat

  164. Woow! says:

    I like that she keep saying “the shape of the head itself”….no swelling MOM

  165. Two sides to a story says:

    The defense overdoes their crosses and their directs. They’d be a lot more effective if they’d run through their questions once and then walk away.

  166. disappointed says:

    We need photos from jail when he appeared before judge with his bald head.

  167. MedicineBear says:

    Why is she looking at a photo — she examined the condition of his scalp IN PERSON the day after it happened! How did she miss all these things at the physical exam just hours after the killer’s struggle with his victim?

  168. lurker says:

    She says the bumps could be just the shape of his skull.

  169. bellesouth says:

    We’re all so sick of looking at this gross head! Sight abuse!

  170. gbrbsb says:

    If it resolved itself in 12 hours it was not serious.

  171. Tzar says:

    Does the state really not have a trauma doc to rebutt this nonsense

    • KittySP says:

      UUUUGGGHHHH! Really not feeling how state wrapped up this week. Sure hope there’s a method to this madness!

      • jm says:

        I agree. The State (Bernie) did a bad job with this medical person. Maybe his only focus was on MMA but there should have been more to refute this person’s testimony after MOM questioned her. I also did not like this vague doctor with her could have or possibly could or maybe, etc.

      • KittySP says:

        He has to do better at not only eliciting testimony that favors their case, but also that it is so damaging to the defense that on cross, there’s no room for reasonable doubt.

      • Malisha says:

        Patience.
        This week was very fine indeed.

  172. Local 10 Zimmerman ‏@WPLGZimmerman

    Zimmerman’s legal team Spokesman Shawn Vincent said he had to talk to Don West and would likely issue statement on Instagram post

  173. Shari says:

    Maybe I’m a debbie downer. I read on twitter the jury is taking notes except for the ER worker. A lawyer said she helps the defense case. None of this proves his life was in jeopardy. He said he HAD to shoot to save his life. I don’t understand why people are impressed by this “likely broken” comment.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      it has been commented before by people seeing the jury that about 3 are active note takers and 3 are not. i would not attach any special significance. likely the CNA, while not having the education of a PA understands this all well enough to not need notes.

  174. lurker says:

    Trying to get her to say that all of the abrasions on the front and side were from concrete.

    Totally inconsistent with the story of lying on the back and head banging. He would have to be rolled around and lifted up by his feet to put all that in contact with the deadly concrete.

    • dianetrotter says:

      If the front is from concrete, that suggests that Trayvon was on top of his back at some point bashing his face into the concrete.

  175. dianetrotter says:

    wftv doesn’t have the buffering problems. I’m ignoring the comments so I won’t get ticked.

  176. Nellie Nell says:

    Yes, different head shapes! That CAC has a lumpy head under that hair which is why he has let it grow in!

  177. fauxmccoy says:

    oooh, some head have bumpy shapes all on their very own.

    thanks, ms PA!

  178. Sabrina B. says:

    Head shapes! Yes!

  179. gbrbsb says:

    The blood near the beard MOM pointed to is NOT an abrasion, it is the end of the blood trail as shown in the bloody nose photo which was not cleaned up properly.

  180. Brandy says:

    This is pissing me off, he could already have previous scaring, discoloration on his scalp again like most people

  181. Nellie Nell says:

    Mild swelling! I love Lindzee and she sees through MOM and she is not going to give him what he wants. It could be or any other surface she says!

    • Malisha says:

      Could there be internal bleeding?
      Could there be hematomas?
      Could there be kidney failure?
      Could there be fibrous histiocytomas?
      Could there be — I dunno, I just wanna say some more scary medical words so people think Fogen was gonna die.

      Knock Knock.
      Who’s there?
      Could be.
      Could be who?
      No, could be what! Could be whatever!

  182. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I am tired of the “It coulds”

  183. Tzar says:

    it’s a trail of blood you idiot

  184. disappointed says:

    so Trayvon picked him up by feet and slammed head into concrete?

  185. Sabrina B. says:

    That’s dried blood!

  186. Brandy says:

    Omara is soooo ANNOYING!!

    • KittySP says:

      Annoying yes. But also well prepared. He’s not stupid, he knows the evidence the state has on GZ and he’s a skilled critical thinking attorney. He’s gonna take that evidence along with the witness and make them work to his advantage. If the state doesn’t start viewing that evidence and analyze it properly, applying every likely scenario, it’s gonna be in trouble.

      As someone who’s done work as Sr. QA analyst testing software…I would have to test development code in test environment before it gets to production…there’s positive and negative testing scenarios. For me, writing the negative scenarios, I wanted to find ways that would break their code. That way it flushed out defects in the code early on. It was no challenge for me test the scenarios I knew were gonna work.

      • groans says:

        I gotta agree, KittySP. Everyone here likes to dis MOM as a joke. He’s not a joke (though he’s great fodder for jokes), and is scoring points. Don’t know if they’re enough points yet, but the defense is definitely scoring points. And if the media discussions are any indication of what jury discussions might be like, it ain’t pretty right now.

        (To the Negativity-Silencing police: Rest assured, I have not given up. But I can look at things from multiple perspectives, and consider it important to do so.)

        • cielo62 says:

          Groans- then it’s a good thing that the Jury is sequestered. They can’t read the amazing load of bullshit that is being peddled by the media. I have totally lost my respect for many of my regular news outlets. The prosecution is doing well tho they certainly could have nailed the PA better. Cynically I wonder if media outlets want the same kind of revenue generating outrage that emerged after the Casey Anthony trial. GZ is clearly guilty IF you bother to educate yourself about the available evidence.

          FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

  187. gbrbsb says:

    MINI bruisings, he tried to correct himself but he said MINI !

  188. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    BDLR Needs to ask on redirect what symptoms would one have if they experienced severe head trauma to the point of blacking out…

  189. Mike says:

    Mom is losing the battle with the PA she took him to school on some things

  190. KittySP says:

    Say what you want MOM does his homework…I just hope Bernie and the boys step it up!

  191. Brandy says:

    The doc was not concerned about lump, therefore no MRI was taken

  192. Nellie Nell says:

    I can not stand CAC MOM! I can not wait until that guilty verdict is read! He thinks he is slick with all this bullshit about under the scalp injuries…. If he had injury to his brain as he suggest, I doubt that he would have been so coherent.

  193. disappointed says:

    brain injury or skull fracture yet NO E.R. visit, no xrays.

  194. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    and the possibly of serious head injury WAS ruled out.

  195. fauxmccoy says:

    o’mara discussing subdural injuries that never happened.

    whoopppeee

  196. Brandy says:

    if not it. ooops

  197. Tzar says:

    this testimony is stupid
    she is testifying way out of her depth

  198. smokeegyrl says:

    Why isn’t BDLR objecting right now!

  199. bellesouth says:

    Smash is a term of art???

  200. boyd says:

    MOM creating a new medical report from the family practice on the stand Now he has internal bleeding …. possibly.

  201. ic2fools says:

    MOM just messed up with that pic. Fogen did not use ice he declined ice. I haven’t heard he had taken any inflammatory mediciation.

  202. Leisa says:

    They need to shave his head so we can compare bumps. He grew hair to hide them.

    • Tzar says:

      exactly
      I hope the state is not that stupid to let all that slide

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        People… Bernie knows as much about this case as we do, if not more, much more! As we can see he already knew how small the gap was between DD’s phone call ending and the 911 call beginning.

        When this witness took the stand, he noticed her reluctance on direct to come his way and stand by her initial observations. So, knowing how Omar works, Bernie decided to sit back and see how far she and Omar would go.

        Turns out they went overboard! Which is why “silence is golden”, by keeping quiet and not objecting, he allowed their confidence in their own constructions to build and build. Until they grew so confident that they were getting over, they even turned to citing the shadows in the photo as bruising.

        Once they were finally finished, Bernie lowered the boom: Miss, funny thing is, that you didn’t notice these terrible injuries when gz was sitting in your office over a year ago. Then, all you could document was these two tiny sharp force injuries, that have no bruising around them. Do you really mean to say that you let someone so damaged, to simply walk out of your office with a prescription to wash his wounds with soap and water?

        What school did she say she graduated from? Perhaps it too needs to be looked at, eh? OR, is it possible that she is lying? Oh nooooo! She’d never do that! Hahaha

        • Tzar says:

          hope you are right

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It wasn’t for nothing that Omar decided he could use the PA to get what little evidence of wounds he could get into the record. He could have gotten a few little things, and that would have been better than nothing, because at least he’d have some testimony about wounds in evidence, and he could expand and expound on it later.

            Instead of accepting what little he could legitimately get on the record, he decided to try to “steal something”. When he got away with that and Bernie did not seem to notice, Omara went for a little bit more… and a little bit more… and a little bit more. The witnesses was being helpful and cooperative and Bernie seemed not to care or distracted, so Omar decided to take the plunge and raced ahead, getting more and more than he’d ever have hoped to get on the record.

            When suddenly Bernie stood up for redirect and tore everything down and washed it away. Even the little bit that Omar could have legitimately gotten was swept away. Worse the loss of credibility in the jurors eyes, when they saw what a medicine show Omar had wasted their time mesmerizing them with, they are not doubly on guard not to let him do it again. Before they form any opinions now, they’ll wait to see what Bernie has to say. That is never a good thing, to have the jury waiting for your opponent to speak to evaluate your claims.

            Bernie tricked Omar into “throwing him into the Briar Patch”.

  203. YQ says:

    Picture not helping O’Mara’s case. Zimmerman looking disturbed, perhaps embarassed by his chronic problems with constipation He’s pondering the cred of the professionally-employed blonde plain jane.

    Again, O’Mara trying to improv and go somewhere… he’s emphasizing the head injury… but this isn’t going to work-she can’t diagnose him from the witness stand…

  204. Brandy says:

    Now, Bernie needs to ask it HUMPTY DUMPTY could just have a LUMPTY head like most people

  205. MedicineBear says:

    Finally, an expert on gravity and blood flow! Tell us what would happen with blood flow on the back of the head if one was laying on their back.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @MedicineBear,

      Re: ” Tell us what would happen with blood flow on the back of the head if one was laying on their back.’

      Bear, what would happen from lying on grass so wet that it soaks GZ’s jacket and sticks grass all over it – is that it would MESS UP and DISSOLVE the bloody tracks – getting blood on the grass(which SPD could not locate) UNLESS Zimmerman was mounted ON Trayvon at all times after sustaining those “cuts.”

      The lacerations don’t “cut” both ways. Proves he was NEVER under Trayvon, NEVER being assaulted by Trayvon. Never DETAINED by Trayvon. ALWAYS able to FLEE Trayvon.

      Zimmerman NEVER in fear for his MISERABLE LIFE.

      Frickin’ GUILTY!

  206. gbrbsb says:

    He is using her as an expert witness not just a witness to what she saw and what he told her, but it must be allowed because Bernie hasn’t objected.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Bernie was smart not to object, he allowed them to build up the confidence they needed to go on a tear and they did! Not only did skull abnormalities become hematomas but even the shadows became bruises! gz was clearly on his last legs when they wrapped up with a smiling finish.

      Then Bernie rose on redirect to point out that, this wasn’t some mere abstract exercise, but that they had been actually talking about a real person who had appeared physically in person, in her offices.
      He noted that although she was diagnosing some terribly damaging injuries today, from the photos, she noted none of this when gz was in her office, asking her to document his injuries!

      So now she’s been hung out to dry and she took Omar’s credibility down with her.

  207. Dave says:

    She’s on dangerous ground, diagnosing from photos.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Dave said “She’s on dangerous ground, diagnosing from photos.”

      Most especially when she’s diagnosing thing she didn’t notice, when she had the live person in her own office over a year ago, and did not notice anything then.

  208. Sabrina B. says:

    Why doesn’t she say she couldn’t tell by pictures? What kind of doctor would speculate?

    • tonya B says:

      she isn’t a dr

      • jm says:

        Did she suggest further testing because of head injury? Why not? Does she think the lacerations are consistent with his head being slammed multiple times against cement?

    • Leisa says:

      Not a doctor.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Well, that’s because she isn’t a doctor, just a 2 year certificate holder as a medical assistant. But as you say, why she didn’t uphold her own examination is nothing less than incredible.

      She examined gz in her office and, what she’s saying now is, that she failed to note all these massive injuries that were staring her right in the face! Obviously she is on gz’s side for some strange reason, and she got carried away by Omar’s bold proposals, simply because she saw that the opposition was quiet and not objecting.

      As Bernie stayed silent both she and Omar grew wildly confident that what they were saying could not be disproved. As their confidence grew their claims got wilder and wilder… Finally, after they had had enough rope, Bernie rose and put a resounding end to their nonsense, by reminding them and the jury that, she had ignored all these claimed injuries, when she had gz in her office, complaining about being traumatized. At that time all she could find to document was those two tiny cuts and an unsupportable claimed “likely broken nose”.

      The ever so toxic gz has taken down yet another victim.

      • cielo62 says:

        Lonnie~ Actually, a PA has a very detailed medical education (I know, I tried it, but couldn’t pass neurobiology). She is NOT a “medical assistant” as in a 2 year Associates Degree. BUT she is NOT an MD and not credentialed to make serious diagnosis. That is WHY she listed and also TOLD gz to to a specialist. And gz refused.

        ________________________________

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Okay point taken, but my point was she was being used outside the scope of her expertise. Plus she was repudiating her own examination, as if she had ignored injuries that “might have been present” a year ago, but that she didn’t notice.

          She doesn’t need this case and she certainly is getting nothing from gz. She should have stuck to her original examination and not allowed herself to be led astray of it. But, it seems to me that she choose to side with gz and now she’s tarnished enough to have a very troubled career from here on, if she has one left at all. Yet another toxic take down by the beast!

  209. Tzar says:

    The state needs to deal with these fake head bumps

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      You spoke too soon, Bernie totally destroyed Omar’s little pity party with her on redirect. She also did not notice that gz’s little sharp force cuts on his head were not consistent with the blunt force trauma being claimed. So much so for her credibility and probably her career as well, since this is nationally televised. No insurance company would want to have to cover her, with this kind of baggage available to discredit her in any potential lawsuit.

  210. KittySP says:

    I can’t believe how none of the first responders, or this PA fail to notice that the blood isn’t flowing from his nostrils as is typical with being punched in the nose, repeatedly.

  211. Leisa says:

    Come on. She should only be testifying to the medical exam that she did. How can she testify on pictures?

  212. gbrbsb says:

    Yeah MOM, but he shot Trayvon because he says he feared for his life, not because of the sucker-punch, so where you going with this when there was none of GZ’s DNA on Trayvon’s hand or under his nails. And how did he get the broken skin on the nose… A TREE !

  213. looolooo says:

    Where’s all the swelling from the 20 or 30 blows that Trayvon allegedly rained down on him? He SHOULD look like Mike Tyson got to him.

  214. disappointed says:

    Oh there is the picture, please ask her if he is flat if it bleeds like that.

  215. Sabrina B. says:

    Why is he focusing on blood lying down. That simply draws attention to the fact that the blood is running down.

  216. MedicineBear says:

    So ask what drugs and icing he did at the SPD in the 5 hours between the two pictures!

    • groans says:

      No one did, did they? SMH.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Both he and the SPD can only wish there were 5 hours between the first photo and his nose being healed. Unfortunately for them, there are some pretty clear pictures of gz as he exited the car at the station and walked to the interview room. No medication and no ice packs there at all. This physicians assistant has sullied her own reputation and made herself look biased and silly. Why? What kind of rapport had she established with gz?

      This is why Bernie didn’t interrupt Omar and her while they went on a rapidly growing tear for the gold. Only to have themselves and their false constructs smashed back to earth, when Bernie noted for the jury, that at the time gz was in her office, being examined by her, all she documented at the time was the two tiny sharp force injuries to his head.

      Not a word in her reports about how those skull irregularities Omar pointed out, were in fact hematoma’s etc. They would have been both bruised and tender to the touch, eh? She certainly would have notice them and investigated further “given the story she had been told”, of how gz came by those two tiny cuts. She went down in flames and took Omar’s credibility with her. The look on her face after Bernie finished his brief but effective redirect was priceless.

  217. disappointed says:

    Talk about gravity from back of head.

  218. Sabrina B. says:

    White blood cells reduced his swelling in an hour.

  219. LOL!

    Now O’Mara sees a bone protruding…

  220. colin black says:

    colin black says:

    June 28, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Our client was ever so compliant after he shot an murdered a CHILD for non compliance with neighbourhood regulation an statues according to his rules.

    Walking whilst Blahck in any an all weather conditions is illegal.
    There is no curfew or time of day no cut of point 24 …7

    Being a Child an walking whilst BLAHCK same as above but twice as illegall

    Any person whilst being Blahck not compliant with his Authauritie will face summery instan execution.

    A Glasgow test.

    Id like to give him a GLAASGOW KISS.

    ..

    Reply

    colin black says:

    June 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Morbid obeasty creepy crackerassedniggarapist

  221. gbrbsb says:

    I love that. They would have first cleaned him up to be able to evaluate the injuries, which means you can’t evaluate GZ’s injuries from the photographs at the scene of his face and head.

    Anyone notice he is using her as an expert witness ? How cheap!

    • groans says:

      Well, at least she is sort of an expert (no offense to other PAs). What was worse was when he used the EMT as an expert for things beyond and EMT’s expertise.

  222. MedicineBear says:

    Oh boohoo, Omara, you POS, he had a back ache from ATTACKING AND KILLING A KID!!!!!

  223. ic2fools says:

    MOM lookin kinda green around the gills..

  224. dianetrotter says:

    .5 Centimeters = 0.1968503937 Inches

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      A fifth of an inch, slightly less than one quarter inch. Not even surrounded by swollen or damaged tissue?!?!? My but that concrete was sharp! Here I thought that a sidewalk would be a blunt instrument, pardon me!

  225. Well another thing proven we have always known…in the medical profession we call it constipation…..or in other words the patient is full of sxxt FOS 🙂

  226. Leisa says:

    Speculation. Good objection

  227. Leisa says:

    Bull. He had bad back as we know by his use of special chair he locked to his desk.

  228. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    She said it could have been broken… no exray and GZ declined to go to Ear nose and throat to confirm… superficial wounds… he got his bell rung one time by TM got scared and shot him… made up a story about a pounding given that small head cuts give …. I think he LIED!

  229. gbrbsb says:

    Even if his nose was broken, and there is only her “likely” to say it is, GZ is claiming he had to shoot to save his life during the altercation on the ground BUT NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT, when according to him Trayvon sucker-punched him at the T.

    I personally still believe he walked into one of those low crown trees on RVC after he hung up with the NEN OP, and the small scratches in a windswept direction that Tzar marked, as well as NONE of GZ’s DNA under Trayvon’s fingernails when they would be the only things Trayvon could have used to scratch him with.

  230. Sabrina B. says:

    Doesn’t fear loosen the bowels?

  231. Brandy says:

    Time for Omara to spin, spin spin!

  232. ic2fools says:

    Bernie paalluuhleesssee have surviellance videos from that gym for that week.

    FOGEN GET IN THE BOX!!!!!!!!

  233. lurker says:

    Darn–I wanted Bernie to show the video with the big bandages and ask her if she had applied them, to see her laugh!

    • Ms.X says:

      That would be GREAT! Then ask if she would’ve used those bandages for his injuries. Since omara is talking direction of blood, now might be a good time to ask if the direction of the blood flow is consistent with laying on your back.

  234. FactsFirst says:

    O’HaHa jumped up FAST that time! LOL!!! LMAO!!! LOL!!!

  235. fauxmccoy says:

    damn, damn, damn – no mention of psych meds. JN sustained o’mara’s objection on that?

  236. Brandy says:

    I knew GZ was full of shit! would explain the constipation LOL

  237. disappointed says:

    Bet he is pooping pants now.

  238. fauxmccoy says:

    2 lacerations on back of head — 2 cm and 0.5 cm
    lacerations required no sutures due to lack of depth and healing

    pupils equal and reactive to light — normal
    bilateral black eyes
    no other trauma noted to head (bumps likely normal)

    slight swelling/bruising naso/labial fold
    no evidence of septal deviation — nose straight

    tender sacro iliac joint. – received anti inflammatory

    likely broken nose, not definitive
    recommended to see ENT – patient refused

    (dear god – who wants to massage george’s ass??)

    treated prior for S/I issues related to constipation

  239. dianetrotter says:

    We all knew he was full of SH*T!!!

  240. type1juve says:

    “Now all jurors taking notes during this testimony”

  241. Brandy says:

    I was hoping she was going to say the nose was NOT broken! UGH

    • Malisha says:

      Doctors and medical providers don’t say that. They say “rule out” or “no evidence of” or “denies” or “no signs” but they can’t say “NOT” until there are tests. He did not get an x-ray.

      • jm says:

        Did not this medical provider say possible or probable? I still want to know how she saw black eyes when his reenactment video shows no black eyes. Is she looking at his hereditary circles under his eyes and calling them black? Why wouldn’t Bernie question the difference between the time she saw GZ and the time he showed up for reenactment video with no black eyes?

  242. NO EMT’s told Zimmerman his nose was broken. He LIED! Everything he tells is a damn lie

  243. Judy75201 says:

    Did you laugh when you saw that large bandaid?

  244. disappointed says:

    Haha his butt hurt.

  245. dianetrotter says:

    2 centimeters = .787 inch. A super sized kotex for that?

  246. gbrbsb says:

    Bernie, please, get her to explain ATRAUMATIC i.e. as per free:

    atraumatic /atrau·mat·ic/ (a″traw-mat´ik) not producing injury or damage.

    Courtesy of the Free Medical Dictionary (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/atraumatic)

  247. RobertSF says:

    Argh! Why did BDLR skip asking her what “normocephalic” and “autramatic” meant in plain English.

  248. Leisa says:

    Gee he told Detective at reenactment doctor thought he could use a couple of stitches.. Liar liar pants on fire. His ass should be pretty well cooked by now with all of his britches burnt! ; – )

  249. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    do it again… “about this (tiny winny) big! LOL little cuts bitch ass… definitely woulda needed stitches if repeatedly slammed to the point of death… un f’in reasonable FEAR! GUILTY!

  250. smokeegyrl says:

    The truth shall come from the darkness to the light! I told y’all “Patience”… there is more to come! LACERATIONS DEEP OR SERIOUS NOT TO REQUIRE … A WHAT!!!! LOL

  251. type1juve says:

    The murderer looks like he’s about to cry.

  252. bellesouth says:

    MMA trained bulldog, Zimmerman is.

  253. bellesouth says:

    He’s considered obese? Then? Damn! He’s near heart attack level now then.

  254. fauxmccoy says:

    …. and has he become more obese? 😉

  255. disappointed says:

    204 pounds. Not a meek weak person by any means.

  256. Judy75201 says:

    Describes fogen’s report as “story” he is telling me.

  257. disappointed says:

    head trauma my ass

  258. fauxmccoy says:

    no headache
    no change in vision
    no slurred speech
    no dizziness
    no gait abnormality

    BAM!

  259. Tzar says:

    ha ha ha
    who tells their doctor that they used a weapon that they are “authorized to carry”
    this idiot was planting his little story

  260. disappointed says:

    So he could have fought off attacker, but he shot because he should have NEVER put hands on Trayvon and he knew his ass would go to jail. Illegally detaining, kidnapping, assaulting a minor.. kill claim self defense.

    • Ms.X says:

      There it is! But you know, if he would not have murdered Trayvon, he probably could have gotten him arrested. They would’ve believed anything he said over Tray just like they do now.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Exactly– kill, claim self-defense because the State of Florida has instituted this CRAZY law that incentivizes gun-nuts to do just that! He knew that law would help him if he killed Ms. Fulton’s and Mr. Martin’s son, and it would have prevented his arrest if not for the persistence of the victim’s parents.

      Florida State law that rewards murder!

  261. emt’s nor paramedics can diagnose so they cannot say a nose is broken!

  262. Judy75201 says:

    He only went to the doctor because he had to for a return to work.

  263. Sabrina B. says:

    Back up. Is someone hacking NBC.com?

  264. Ms.X says:

    Would you guys kindly stop using cca? Racism is ugly & painful. I’ll put my dislike bordering on hatred for the murderer up against anyone’s, but I still can’t advocate racism or racial epithets against any humans. Please consider.

    • Sophia33 says:

      We had a discussion about this earlier. Many of us agree with you. Just to let you have support in your position.

      • Ms.X says:

        Thanks, friend.

      • towerflower says:

        I agreed with you also and made a comment further up about it.

      • groans says:

        CAC is just fine. If it’s good enough for Trayvon, it’s good enough for me.

        Unless … Are folks here calling Trayvon racist????

        You seem to be doing so – and buying into the TRUE true racists’ talking points – if you object to it.

        JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!!
        Send his CAC to prison for life!!

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Please consider Ms.X’s request, everyone.

      I agree with her. You did not use it before you heard it, don’t do it now or it invites the opposite “n” response.

      • disappointed says:

        I am sorry I did not see earlier conversation. I do switch back and forth I will stick with Fogen. 🙂

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        The other thing I don’t like is that when whites say “cracker” does not bother them, I become upset because I know that whites live “comfortably” and “safely” in our society where whites live under the protective umbrella of the white power structures that control our society………and thus, the word “cracker” is not threatening.

      • towerflower says:

        You can’t say that whites aren’t bothered by it. It has several meanings and it can be referred to as someone who is poor or it is also a term used to describe slave masters who would whip the slaves…..making a cracking noise of the whip. It also refers to a native and also a cowboy. Florida cowboys were the first cowboys and would herd livestock by cracking a whip. But is it any different than 2 AA who call themselves the N word? Why is that viewed as ok?

        This is why I feel if it is considered to be a derogatory term it shouldn’t be used at all.

      • Malisha says:

        I still offer the use of “Fogen” without attribution and for free. 😀

      • towerflower says:

        Malish, I will join you in the use of that term as well! 🙂

      • groans says:

        I like CAC, because it originated from Trayvon, himself. And Rachel testified that is is not racial or offensive.

        Trayvon gave his killer a descriptor, and I intend to honor Trayvon’s designation.

    • DruDo says:

      Apparently I missed that discussion. So sorry to offend you or anyone else, Ms.X.

      • groans says:

        CAC is just fine. If it’s good enough for Trayvon, it’s good enough for me.

        Unless … Are folks here calling Trayvon racist????

        You seem to be doing so – and buying into the TRUE true racists’ talking points – if you object to it.

        JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!!
        Send his CAC to prison for life!!

    • Sophia33 says:

      Np. Was trying to say you have support for your position.

    • EdgySF says:

      IMO, “cracker” is not a vulgar term like the N word. I don’t know why people think they are equivalent terms.

      “Crackers” didn’t get lynched.

      Nobody bombed a “cracker” church.

      Nobody blocks “crackers” from voting.

      I don’t condone the term. But “reverse racism” does not exist in a country where whites have all of the money and power.

      • Sophia33 says:

        I shared your sentiment too in the prior discussion today on the issue. I don’t think the two terms are equivalent for the reasons that you said. But I don’t think that equivalence is necessary to meet the bar of offensive. Just saying.

        Hence the reason, I personally have not used the term.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I agree, EdgySF.

        I just wrote the same sentiment.

      • groans says:

        CAC is just fine. If it’s good enough for Trayvon, it’s good enough for me.

        Unless … Are folks here calling Trayvon racist????

        You seem to be doing so – and buying into the TRUE true racists’ talking points – if you object to it.

        JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!!
        Send his CAC to prison for life!!

    • dianetrotter says:

      I really appreciate you guys chiming in on this. Professor Leatherman is gracious enough to let us commune here and there are many white people who want the right thing to happen. Using CAC can feed into Dennis and other trols. If it weren’t perceived as racial in some settings, Don West would not have used it to suggest that Trayvon was racist.

      • EdgySF says:

        I think it’s only perceived as a racist term by racists….personally, I’ve never heard anyone say it. I didn’t realize kids used if. IMO, that’s our fault (adults), not theirs…

      • groans says:

        CAC is just fine. If it’s good enough for Trayvon, it’s good enough for me.

        Unless … Are folks here calling Trayvon racist????

        You seem to be doing so – and buying into the TRUE true racists’ talking points – if you object to it.

        JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!!
        Send his CAC to prison for life!!

    • groans says:

      I like CAC, because it originated from Trayvon, himself. And Rachel testified that is is not racial or offensive.

      Trayvon gave his killer a descriptor, and I intend to honor Trayvon’s designation.

  265. My Forehead Tho says:

    The NBC link stopped working.

    Here’s another link:

    http://www.foxnews.com/live-coverage/zimmerman-trial

  266. fauxmccoy says:

    no surprise that this witness testifies at end of week, just before weekend. last thing jury hears for a while. good job BDLR!

  267. YQ says:

    Fogenites disconnected the live feed???

  268. Nef05 says:

    Someone post the WTV site please NBC has gone down right in the middle of MMA testimony.

  269. Brandy says:

    There is hope! Praise God, I am feeling much better now! JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON

  270. My Forehead Tho says:

    Hmmmm, The Zimmerman’s made a huge thing about Fogen being described as white in the media, yet that is how he described himself….

  271. DruDo says:

    White and MMA…..So, crazyasscracker, explain that, you lying POS.

  272. Oh! Oh! George Zimmerman engaged in MMA exercise 3 days per week.

    Muther…

    • jm says:

      I hope they establish how long GZ trained in MMA.

    • Malisha says:

      And when he got sucker punched and fell on his tushie, he could not even use his hands to defend his poo widdow nosey wosey from big bad pBa-lack Trayvon’s vicious savage thug-hands? He was mentoring? No he wasn’t, he was TRAINING to bring down his “mark.”

  273. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  274. MedicineBear says:

    Ka-BOOM!!!

  275. AHA! Told ya’ll smile and ^5’s!

  276. Sabrina B. says:

    Oh no! My video!

  277. disappointed says:

    NO! Did MOM unplug camera?

  278. Brandy says:

    Bingo!! MMA 3 times a week 🙂 Awesome

  279. fauxmccoy says:

    CAC — you’re a lying sack of shit and your caccy lawyers too!

  280. Leisa says:

    First thing I saw of trial was MMA. Yeah we knew he was full of it.

  281. MedicineBear says:

    Holy fucque!!!!!! MMA!

  282. My Forehead Tho says:

    “started to exercise extently with MMA”

    “Did mixed martials arts 3 days a week”

  283. lurker says:

    3x a week MMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Zim’s going DOWN!

  284. dianetrotter says:

    Three (3) days a week!!!

  285. Sabrina B. says:

    Insurance coverage too. Ambulance claims. Three days per week.

  286. Nellie Nell says:

    Booyow! He forgot about that important piece of information that he gave! CAC

  287. disappointed says:

    I bet he is shitting pants now! haha

  288. Dee says:

    He made sure to classified himself as being white and he not.

  289. gbrbsb says:

    So he did do MMA apart from grappling techniques which surely include arm, shoulder and wrist locks.

  290. Ms.X says:

    I came in on MMA. Faith temporarily restored.

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      We cannot retreat at the first sign of Controversy! Trayvon needs us to be strong! We have to keep the faith and remember FACTS… real FACTS… are on our side….. GZ’s own statements will bury him together with everything else that has been brought to evidence so far…. all this stuff about him being injured will eventually be looked at for what it is NON-LIFE THREATENING… ALL THAT EXTRA DETAIL GZ GAVE ABOUT THE SCUFFLE WILL BE WHAT IT IS … LIES TO THE JURY…. = GUILTY!

  291. disappointed says:

    He has/had insurance.

  292. Two sides to a story says:

    Lack of sleep, adderall for ADD/ADHD – and CCW on patrol? What a mess.

  293. EdgySF says:

    According to his medical records, GZ is white.

    and he took up MMA for insomnia.

    • EdgySF says:

      Also, can I just rant for a minute?

      I caught some of the trial on our local Fox News. They’re so biased toward the defense, it’s sickening.

      They said the Defense is miles ahead of the State….that BDLR has to figure out a way to prove that GZ just suddenly went insane.

      They even suggested that the case is going so well, they might not even put on a defense.

      Just got home and haven’t been watching.

      So many have this wrong. I’m disappointed and a little demoralized.

      At least this blog exists….thanks all.

      • towerflower says:

        WESH had their expert saying the same thing. Saying that MOM was laying the groundwork to have the case dismissed.

      • Malisha says:

        No no don’t be demoralized, do you know the translation of “the trial is going so poorly for the prosecution that the defense might not even put on evidence”? It means even in the face of all that has been proved, they’re afraid to put fogen on the stand and they will not be able to present evidence of self-defense!

        Remember the SYG no-SYG hearing rhetoric? “We’ll get him off on a SYG; he should never have been charged; just wait for the SYG; we’re gonna SYG outta this; the scheme team just wants money but we’re gonna deal with this in two parts; Fogen wants to be SYGGED by a jury; wel maybe we’ll do SYG during trial; well maybe we’ll do SYG after trial….”

        And all along FOX was saying SYG SYG SYG HUH HUH SYG.

        This means: there is no defense.
        Fogen will not try to testify.
        O’Mara will try to sell a woof ticket that “prosecution didn’t prove their case so we won’t even bother to put on a defense” and

        that is the way they sell their lies now. They simply say the opposite of the truth. 1984-ish but really, isn’t that what fogen did? Real suspicious guy [it was him]; unprovoked attack [it was him]; threats of death [it was him]; screams for help [it was him]. Simple formula: OPPOSITE OF THE TRUTH.

  294. tonya B says:

    oh shit MMA

  295. dianetrotter says:

    MMA! holy cow!

  296. fauxmccoy says:

    oh holy shit

    shazaaam!

    MMA dude

  297. lurker says:

    Started to exercise intensely with MMA!

    Ooooooogh. Go Bernie!

  298. DruDo says:

    WITH MMA!

  299. Judy75201 says:

    MMA

  300. YQ says:

    Ooooooh!!!

  301. Woow! says:

    I take it that MOM won that sidebar?

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      No way.. MMA…. experienced fighter… why shoot first! Lets have some faith in BDLR… we cannot jump ship

  302. lurker says:

    OK–got name age AND RACE!

  303. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    white

  304. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    We cannot retreat at the first sign of Controversy! Trayvon needs us to be strong! We have to keep the faith and remember FACTS… real FACTS… are on our side….. GZ’s own statements will bury him together with everything else that has been brought to evidence so far…. all this stuff about him being injured will eventually be looked at for what it is NON-LIFE THREATENING… ALL THAT EXTRA DETAIL GZ GAVE ABOUT THE SCUFFLE WILL BE WHAT IT IS … LIES TO THE JURY…. = GUILTY!

    • Malisha says:

      OK we need to remember the big things:

      It has been established that Fogen chased in the car, chased on foot, and that they fought or there was a scuffle while they stood and moved around, NO SUCKER PUNCH.

      It has been established that Fogen’s injuries were not serious.

      Look how far we have come, baby!

    • groans says:

      No one is retreating, Chicken Little. But we gotta be real, too.

  305. DruDo says:

    Anybody read lips? I’d like to know what cac is saying.

  306. Brandy says:

    Those superficial injuries on George of the Jungle’s head could of came from a tree, slipping and falling on the grass and hitting is head on a sprinkler head, or self inflicted. I tend to think he self inflicted them. George of the Jungle should of Watched out for that tree LOL

  307. So it might be a magic evidence in this case finally.
    The gunshot hole in TM’s sweatshirt being behind the photo pin.

  308. fauxmccoy says:

    hmm …. bernie seems to be highlighting, not redacting … let’s hope this is good news.

  309. disappointed says:

    MOM trying to steal paperwork?

  310. amsterdam1234 says:

    The vibes I am getting is that the system must be protected. No harm may come to the Sanford Police department. Where are the dash Cam recorder for instance? I am not getting the impression that GZ has special protections, but that the evidence that is out there to convict him, may also implicate LE and the judicial system, and that is prevented from happening.

  311. ay2z says:

    MOM has the jury as his pals, and Judge Nelson does nothing but stop him like a kid taking a cookie from the jar, not to do it again.

    • ay2z says:

      About MOM asking the jury if they were ok or wanted a for a break or are they ok to continue. JN told him not to talk to he jury, she would do it.

      • Malisha says:

        I don’t think the jury are the defense lawyers’ pals. We have a long way to go and only one juror is really susceptible to that kind of distortion, I think.

  312. DruDo says:

    Am I wrong to be a little concerned that the pros doesn’t seem to be asking questions they should be? Seems they’re letting a lot of important things slide. Guess I’m just worried.

    • darlinsass says:

      Dru the way the prosecution is going makes me sick. They act like they don’t have a clue. They don’t object, they don’t ask pertinent questions. It almost looks like like they are attempting to throw the case, by a slim thread.