Welcome to Day 9 Liveblogging Jury Selection in Zimmerman Trial

Thursday, June 20, 2013

Good morning to the last day of Spring and the 9th day of liveblogging jury selection.

Here is your link to Fauxmccoy’s fabulous spreadsheet of the prospective jurors (PJs).

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/

Court resumes at 9 am EDT with the defense voir dire of the panel of 40.

See you in court.

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1,297 Responses to Welcome to Day 9 Liveblogging Jury Selection in Zimmerman Trial

  1. type1juve says:

    This case is very much divided along racial lines and there is no good reason that they couldn’t have seated at least one AA on the jury. The fact that they did not makes me very uncomfortable. Prior to this case I wouldn’t have thought much of it, but after all that the racist O’Mara, the Fogen family and his racist supporters have done I really have to wonder what’s really going on here.

  2. There’s a black hispanic on the jury of 6

  3. Sleuth says:

    Press asked him why he didn’t challenge the strike made against the AA juror.

  4. Sleuth says:

    This dud is really hoggin’ up, just loves the cameras. He’s trying to infer that the State is the reason for no AA’s being on the jury, mentioning the State struck the first AA.

  5. Sleuth says:

    Oh no he didn’t! He just accused the State of using their strikes to stop women from being on the jury.

  6. Sleuth says:

    I don’t know if this has been brought up recently, but it seems as though victims, dead or alive, don’t really have rights, especially the ones who can no longer speak for themselves.

    I read where the State of Florida has Victim Impact Statements, but just how much weigh does it carry in cases like this?

    • cielo62 says:

      Sleuth~ The professor addressed this once. The dead have no rights because, well, because they’re dead. The Victim Impact Statement is read AFTER the verdict, so it has zero weight for the trial.

      ________________________________

    • Jun says:

      Well they do have to present some evidence to even have the self defense affirmative defense instruction considered for trial, otherwise it is not weighed at trial

      If Nelson grants the instruction, Fogen will have to convince the jury it was justifiable, then the state would have to disprove their affirmative defense or show that it is unreasonable

      I do agree with you though and I feel that to presume a dead person responsible with no evidence, by the person accusing the dead person, in this Fogen, would be unfair to Trayvon, as I believe he should have some presumption of innocence in the whole affair as well

  7. Sleuth says:

    What is Rule 403?

  8. Sleuth says:

    So, basically The Wiester is calling Reich a quack, and the just seated jurors, ignorant.

  9. MrSykes says:

    You know, come to think of it, an all-female jury may be just what the doctor ordered, what with Zimmerman’s past domestic violence issues.

    • Sleuth says:

      You bring up a good point. Although the confessed murderer said he was in agreement with the chosen jurors, he was basically saying yes as it pertain to NOT having any AA’s on the jury.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Oh yes, the women will listen and analyze all the evidence as women do. Once the idiot takes the stands to explain his 5 different versions of how he stalked, confronted, detained and then killed an unarmed teen in self defense will be the day he might as well just cuff himself and head straight to that underground passage to lock-up.

    • ic2fools says:

      @MrSykes

      Remember too that the jury will hear that Fogen turned off his mothers’ lights and locked her utility the box, and his ex-fiancee testify about domestic abuse.

      Only trouble is E6, I have faith she will change her views.

  10. Sleuth says:

    The Wiester and O’Dirty are the ones who make up shyte as they go along.

  11. Sleuth says:

    The Wiester really needs to stop telling lies.

    Reich was not the only one who would state the confessed murderer and Trayvon were having a conversation, so will several of the witnesses.

  12. KittySP says:

    been watching HLN coverage and Vinnie P’s talking of the re-enactment…he repeatedly says that the re-enactment occurred two days later. That is irresponsible reporting and it gives those ignorant to the real facts an opportunity to justify inconsistencies in his retelling.

    • Malisha says:

      First of all, the reenactment was NOT a reenactment. If it were, he would have had to get ON the ground where he claims to have been dominated and he would have had to pull the “the gun” from a holster at his hip while someone was “mounted” on him. Etc. It was a little video, not a reenactment. Second of all it took place about 22-23 hours after the murder.

    • groans says:

      I don’t know how folks here can watch HLN. I’ve tuned in recently, since they’ve been “covering” this murder case. The shows are all SUCH BS!

  13. Leisa says:

    This trial is going to be out of control. She will be forced to put West in his place once and for all. OMG…

    • Malisha says:

      Where is West’s place?
      Surely not anywhere in that courtroom!
      Gawd!

      • Leisa says:

        Someplace, anyplace. Possibly a jail cell for contempt if he can’t control himself. Don’t think she would have an outburst like that in front of the jury…… I see a cell in his future…

  14. lurker says:

    Nelson and the witness both have had enough of West.

  15. Leisa says:

    Processing….

  16. disappointed says:

    West SHUT UP! JN needs to hit him in head with gavel.

  17. Tracy Martin says it’s very difficult to sit in the courtroom with Zimmerman.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_cXfb1_Ijo

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Hearing Tracy speak about his son is so emotional for me that I can only imagine what his pain must feel like and probably not even come close. There will be justice because those smart women on the jury will listen and analyze all the evidence and come out with the only verdict there could possibly be.

      I am still confused as to if the killer will take the stand or not and if he has to in order to prove self defense. How will the jury measure his allegedly being scared enough for his life to kill an unarmed teen after locking his wrist, aiming his pistol and then shooting the kid in the heart? The jurors all sound reasonable to me to understand that they must look at the evidence presented and base their verdict on that evidence.

    • cielo62 says:

      SB2~ NO doubt. I’d want to KILL that bastard every single day.

      ________________________________

  18. disappointed says:

    Thank gawd she shut this down.

  19. disappointed says:

    wtf? What are we talking about? What is this paper he is trying to get this guy to talk about?

  20. Tzar says:

    Go home West, you’re drunk

  21. Leisa says:

    Screw that. He should have to stay. Who’s trial is it? Is this matter not important to him?

  22. bettykath says:

    I have confidence that the jury will pay attention to the evidence. Think of it: FL jury of all women, all white but one Hispanic, convicts a white Hispanic for killing a black teen. Progress.

    • bettykath says:

      Another point: if it’s necessary for an alternate or two, we’re looking at the addition of one or two men, one white, one bi-racial(?) Trust the jury.

  23. Ms.X says:

    One thing I’ve observed is how the cameras stay focused mostly on gz & his families side of the court. I know they are constrained by not being able to show jurors, but gosh. It really is the george zimmerman show. It all about his trial, his legal team, his parents there/not there, his wife’s hair style du jour, etc. Its kind of sickening & the reason he is in this boat in the 1st place. He feels like he can control everything and everybody, & its all about him and what he wants.

    Who posted his astrological chart? I couldn’t find it in the archives, Can you please post it again?

  24. Two sides to a story says:

    Weird eye movement, Fogen.

    • DruDo says:

      I’ve noticed that, too. My sister also mentioned it yesterday and said the same thing you did…weird. Sumpin’s wrong with him.

  25. Leisa says:

    One side question before we get into it, how did sr. Get married to a catholic woman in a catholic ceremony when he was divorced? I thought was not acceptable to the church?

    • Dave says:

      If his previous marriage wasn’t solemnized in a Catholic church it doesn’t count, nor does the divorce.

    • bettykath says:

      annulments can be purchased. my ex- got married in a catholic church (don’t know that he’s ever been in any church and certainly not a catholic one) to a woman who had been married for several years and had two teenage boys. She was able to get an annulment after her divorce.

      • Leisa says:

        I understood they wouldn’t give annulment if there was a child. How can you (is word nullify) a child. Wow

    • Malisha says:

      Woah! I never heard about that. DId he have children with the first wife? Has anybody heard about or from the first wife?

      • Leisa says:

        I searched records in Va. Quite a while back and could not even find a parking ticket I could tie to an ex-wife. I did find several records that looked to be someone being committed to an institution but since I am a dunce at times, I lost where I found it and am again looking to see. I wrote down the name Denise but not sure. Could not understand why we have not heard even a name of the ex.

      • Leisa says:

        Yes Fogen’s half sister Dawn is from that marriage.

        • cielo62 says:

          Leisa~ If she’s smart, she’s stayed away from this whole mess. Maybe, cuz I’ve never heard that name before.

          ________________________________

  26. smokeegyrl says:

    Michael Skolnick says:

    E-28: A middle-aged white woman who works as a nurse. She knew little about the case and has no opinion about Zimmerman’s guilt.B-72: A young hispanic male who does maintenance at a school and competes in arm wrestling tournaments. He said he avoids the news because he does not want to be “brainwashed.”E-13: A young white woman who goes to college and works two jobs. She heard the shooting was a “racial thing.”E-54: A middle-aged white man with a teenage stepson who wears hoodies. He recalled seeing photos of Zimmerman’s head and face that show injuries.—–

  27. whonoze says:

    Bill S. criticizing JN for reading the instructions written by O’Mara.

    • Well, surely it was a set of agreed instructions or else BDLR would have objected, just my .02. Did Bill S. have an issue with some specific wording?

    • groans says:

      I sort of agree, but for different reason. It was premature to be that specific about jury instructions or any specific evidence.

      At the very least, JN should have made it very clear that the jury instruction might NEVER even apply – and we won’t know until after the evidence is presented. Because, unless there’s EVIDENCE ADMITTED of “justified” homicide, the jury won’t ever get that instruction – so they don’t need to learn much about it now.

  28. smokeegyrl says:

    Hey Faux… you have on the spread sheet that one of the Alternates is bi-racial and male. and the news is reporting him as white. I’m confused.

  29. whonoze says:

    One issue with an all-woman jury is that may believe GZ was actually really hurt when looking at the bloody pictures

    • disappointed says:

      there is a couple medical people on jury. That won’t fly and a woman knows a paper cut from a cut that needs stitches. A woman knows when a booboo needs a kiss and when one requires immediate attention to a M.D.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        agreed – i have nursed far worse wounds on my relatively mild mannered daughters during various spats. one of them at 6 months actually broke my nose with a well aimed kick when having a diaper change.

        mammas know a whole lot about these kinds of things.

      • chi1224 says:

        Plus medical people like myself have treated injuries that were from real life threatening situations, and they are NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING like Fogen’s non-needing a band-aid bullshit! Bottom line is Fogen was not the one in danger, EVER, and his superficial scrapes most likely came from falling to the ground as he tried to “detain” his “suspect”

    • Trained Observer says:

      whonoze — mothers know about bloody noses. His little booboos are going to get snickers.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        beyond that — giving birth is not exactly a pristine process. i’m ok with an all female jury.

      • DruDo says:

        TO, you’re so right! Between my two sons, I’ve seen more blood than a vampire could ever hope for and not a single injury was serious. I remember when one of my sons fell and hit his head on a nail which was sticking up out of the ground and the copious amount of blood there was. A trip to the emergency room required nothing but cleaning, a tetanus shot and, if I recall correctly, a butterfly bandage for a small puncture wound, but it bled like he’d been scalped. Lots of boys and calm mothers in my family, so when I saw fogen’s boo-boos, I thought “big deal” and knew he was full of bs. I think he was chasing Trayvon and slipped on wet grass and smacked his head on something, maybe a sprinkler head, for instance. Or he did it to himself. He’s such a liar and I can’t stand him.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      At first, maybe. The stories, other evidence, etc. will shed light on how superficial the injuries are.

    • gbrbsb says:

      My fear too whonoze, no male to explain what being punched up really means !

    • Let’s wait and see if defense even brings that pic in trial, because it’s def shopped and if i saw it with my naked eye- immediately w/i seconds, i have to believe the state has proved it WOAD!

    • Leisa says:

      After 4 children, seeing a very bloody head no longer makes my heart race. I have learned it is always looks worse than it is and bleeds like crazy for a small cut or scrape. No worries!

    • Who says:

      Doubt it. Most women aren’t freaked out at the site of a little blood.

      There’s a good reason for that. 😉

    • cielo62 says:

      whonoze~ NOT A CHANCE! As moms, I’m SURE they’ve seen plenty worse, just from a game of tag!

      ________________________________

  30. fauxmccoy says:

    well, my spreadsheet seems to measure up well with that used by WFTV and the judge’s scribbled notes … so i’ve got that going for me 🙂

    hope it is clear — i color coded jurors. green are in, red are gone, blue are alternates

    • groans says:

      Congrats, and thanks. I wasn’t able to open it, though. Guess I’ll have to cave and allow cookies. Is that safe? Thx.

  31. Hey you guys, is anyone else not seeing the Frye hearing? Are they in session?

  32. Trained Observer says:

    Professor, Crane, ladies and gentlemen of the blog — Have just missed (when the boss, calls CC@$$#&, you gotta answer) final action on strikes, but I understand it’s looking like an all female jury.

    Some of you may not like this, but I’m not at all discouraged. Women can be tough.

    On the 12-person M1 jury I was on, 11 were female. When the lone male (truly a wimp despite being a Viet vet) suggested we should let the white gang shooter go, despite the fact that he’d hidden a gun in his school locker and went across the street at lunch to shoot a an unarmed black ganger …. we nearly punched him out on the spot. He folded quickly. We convicted of manslaughter, but came close to M1, but the shooter was a teen — not 28 like Fogen.

    On the all female civil jury, the defense never knew what hit them.

    Am looking forward to reviewing, to see what I missed. I would like some men on this jury, but women can get the job done.
    .

  33. disappointed says:

    I think 5 mothers can handle this, even if they are white. I am white and I do not give two shits about Fogen. My heart is with Trayvon and his family. The one who is not a mother I believe is very close to Trayvon’s age. Again I think. There is a couple of medical people on the JURY they can explain his non-life threatening injuries. I would rather have 5 white women then a male any day. Just because women think of their own children.

    • chi1224 says:

      Great post, and I totally agree with you. Also same here, I am a white mother and what I want here is justice for Trayvon! Period!

      • chi1224 says:

        ps- I am also a nurse, so like the medical people on the jury I take note that Fogen didn’t need so much as a bandaid that night… justice is coming

    • Two sides to a story says:

      And think of other people’s children too.

      However, dads do too. But Fogen invoked God’s Plan. I think we got it. I think we’ll see whowhatwherewhy&how very soon.

    • Tzar says:

      I think 5 mothers can handle this, even if they are white.

      I do too. concerned about a stealth.

      • disappointed says:

        Even if there is 1 stealth that leaves 5 women to nag the hell out of them. Women can nag like no other. A stealth does not worry me, common sense will prevail. Trayvon deserves Justice and he will get it. Believe me when it comes to Florida and a jury pool I get scared but I feel good going into this one. Women will not care as much about a self defense law as they will a kid who ran from a grown man.

      • Leisa says:

        What would happen if there is a stealth. Say she is completely unwilling to listen or consider any facts to make a decision. Can a jury member notify the judge and report her or does that just mean hung jury and we do it all again?

      • disappointed says:

        Xena- That is what my husband says when I say are you sure? He says yes every time I ask something. Just because if he says no I will nag. LOL

    • MrSykes says:

      You know, I really hope you are right. But you know the defense is going to play up the relationship between Fogen and his own mom in the battle for the sympathy vote. Let’s hope they identify more towards Trayvon’s mother.

      • cielo62 says:

        MrSykes~ “relationship”?? You mean where gz cut off her electricity then locked the converter box? THAT relationship?

        ________________________________

      • disappointed says:

        so if they do play it up how many Moms will like a son turning off his owns mother’s electricity? This works both ways, imo she should have beat his ass more often.

      • Trained Observer says:

        MrSykes — Juror aren’t going to give a flying fuck about Fogen’s relationshiip with his mumsy. Not unless the State can show Gladazz ordered the hit.

      • Leisa says:

        What relationship? They did not speak at all for can’t recall how many years. He cut off her electricity and left her with no way to restore it. I don’t know any women who with that information would feel any sympathy towards that woman at all.

      • Malisha says:

        Disappointed, I disagree with you. I think Gladys should have beaten his a55 LESS often; he’d have grown up closer to normal. I have a wonderful kid whose a55 I never beat; I gave him three swats once when he was 2-1/2 and rode his trike RIGHT INTO THE STREET! and he screamed bloody murder for over five minutes straight with his mouth wide open and tears just FLYING out of his eyes! (not from pain, from humiliation!) But if I had done stuff like that more often, he wouldn’t have even NOTICED those three swats. As it was, he NEVER rode his trike, his bike, or anything else into the street ever again!

        Abusive parents do end up with kids who believe it’s OK for them to be abusive to others. I think that probably defines not only Gladys but Senior as well. Just guessing but it is an educated guess.

      • Lynn says:

        I recall Trayvon having several generations of names tattooed on his body.
        I also recall GZ having names tattooed also, none of which was Gladys.

    • Trained Observer says:

      You got it to a T!

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I’d rather have 5 white women than 5 white men in the jury. But I don’t think it was a wise decision to have no AA on the jury for this particular case. The defense had 3 AA’s struck from this jury. Nelson shouldn’t have felt pressured to deny the two strikes for the prosecution.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I guess it was 2 by the defense. Still 100 % of AA pj were struck. That just doesn’t look good.

    • groans says:

      I hope you’re right. But I used to be an RN, and I worked in neonatal ICU with ALL women. Intelligent, highly-trained women. They all could take excellent care of the sickest of newborns; extremely competent. But it could get ridiculously ugly between/among them for no genuine reason.

      Since then I’ve worked in predominantly male, all female, and very mixed gender environments. In my experience, all-female work groups were always dysfunctional. The others were not.

      I wish it weren’t true, but that has been my experience.

  34. Sophia33 says:

    Professor did you want to strike B29 for any other reason than hardship?

  35. Dave says:

    Tentative age breakdown (ages courtsy of–shudder! TCTH:

    Jurors:

    1 in her 30s
    1 in her 40s
    3 in their 50s
    1 in her 60s

    :Alternates:

    2 in their 20s
    1 in his 50s
    1 in his 60s

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I would have liked to have seen at least one youngster on the jury, but they were too far down the list.

  36. Woow! says:

    Did any Black/AA people make it on the jury?

  37. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    I hope the state is ready, they appear to be more so than the defense… fireworks start monday, hoping for no duds!!

  38. the guy sheafer just said both sides could’ve used more strikes to get down deeper into the pool

    • groans says:

      Well, then, he’s wrong AGAIN. Because the judge WOULDN’T LET the state use their strikes! Maybe Sheafer slept through that part?

  39. smokeegyrl says:

    I’m so confused right now.. and like in shocked… that they ousted E-22…

    • BLACK! But O’Mara’s excuse is her pastor was very vocal in his support of Trayvon.

      • concernedczen says:

        They should have specifically looked up her testimony before the judge suggested off the top of her head that this woman was not honest.

        If this juror was not specifically asked about her pastor’s feelings, etc…then it is not fair to hold it against her.

      • groans says:

        Nelson blew that one, big time!

  40. Gah the channel 9 expert just referred to an African male and an African female. Minus American. Slip of the tongue probably but he did it twice.

  41. I’m going to start a new thread for the Frye hearing.

  42. Fred will put up a new post for the Frye hearing, please be patient for just a moment.

  43. smokeegyrl says:

    I Hispanic on the Jury poll and 1 bi-racial The Carol G Hate room over on Facebook is happy that E-6 stayed… and really happy that E-22 was ousted… Is not happy that all are female.

  44. Sleuth says:

    Whew! Sure glad this phase is over.

  45. Xena says:

    O’Mara’s team was scurrying around like a bunch of cockroaches when the lights come on.

    We have all weekend to send out positive energy to Bernie before his opening statement. Justice for Trayvon!

    • thanks Xena. i don’t pray but i do believe in energy so i think i’ll actually do some exercise and get more sleep to get more energy to send it to BDLR and the whole team!!

      • Xena says:

        @Shannon.

        thanks Xena. i don’t pray but i do believe in energy so i think i’ll actually do some exercise and get more sleep to get more energy to send it to BDLR and the whole team!!

        Hey Shannon. I do both. 🙂 Also, I believe that people should discern between the need to pray as opposed to when power and authority has been given to us to overcome mountains. There’s a law in the universe not to climb or pray for strength to climb mountains but speak to it, instructing it to get the heck out of our way. May all mountains of dishonesty, bigotry, prejudice, unrighteous judgment , and everything that comes against the truth be removed and cast into the sea.

        So it is spoken. So shall it be done.

  46. concernedczen says:

    I don’t think the state should have stricken the black male juror. That was foolish. At least make the defense do it.

    • Sophia33 says:

      If they hadn’t done it and we got a verdict of ‘not guilty’ then the other side could always say, “Well there was a black person on the jury”. I think it was wise of the state to do that.

    • willisnewton says:

      He was a law and order marine corps prig who doesn’t like Al Sharpton. Also a concealed carry pistol owner. As much as I wish there were some blacks on the jury I’m glad he’s out.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      concernedczen — i suspect the defense would have wanted him based on his ‘law n order’ attitude, former marine, ccw permit. look at the chart i made, in spite of his race, he made many comments that lead me to think he would not be good for the state.

  47. With one exception, all of the jurors are mothers.

    I don’t believe that’s good news for the defense.

  48. Question, are they going home tonight, or are they sequestered?

  49. concernedczen says:

    She better be sequestering them immediately. It would be wrong to send them home over the weekend so they can find out which side didn’t want them

  50. groans says:

    I sure wouldn’t want MY jury to be all female. I genuinely would not.

    • Nef05 says:

      As a female, I wouldn’t want my jury to be all female either, if I was on trial – so maybe that’s a good thing.

    • Leisa says:

      I’m sure he is confident in an all female jury because the two most important females in his life are so supportive and telling him that white women won’t convict him for killing a black. Daddy is telling him this as well so he does not have enough sense to be frightened.

  51. KittySP says:

    Yes! finally, lets get this trial started! GZ is looking worried!

  52. Sophia33 says:

    I think women would sympathize with Sabrina and with how they would feel if there child just went to the convenient store and came home dead. This might not be good for the defense. And Zimmerman doesn’t look good.

    • chi1224 says:

      I agree. When this case first broke I thought of my own son, and the horror of him running into an unstable psycho copwannabe like Zimmerman…

    • Xena says:

      @Sophia33. Not wanting to offend anyone, but O’Mara might as well shred those photos of GZ with blood, because most women see more blood than that on a monthly basis. They will have no effect in justifying self-defense.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Wow! I didn’t expect that.

      • Lynn says:

        As a child/teen I had 6 stitches twice in my head. (I blame the ADHD. lol) Mom handled it like a trooper. Dad’s saying was always, “Too far from your heart to kill ya.” That saying takes on a whole new meaning in this instance. Sadly, GZ knew a hole in TM’s heart was no equivalent for those head boo boo’s yet he pulled the trigger anyways. (After aiming, making sure he missed his other hand and being sure to get under the photo button.)

      • @Xena, OH HELL YEAH! i never even thought of THAT, but i know that’s right!

        But why hasn’t anyone said anything about that shopped pic of his face taken by the neighbor!?!?
        i haven’t noticed omar flapping it around for awhile. but i purposely avoid watching him on tv or whatever.

        • Xena says:

          @Shannon.

          But why hasn’t anyone said anything about that shopped pic of his face taken by the neighbor!?!?

          The taking of that photo does not correspond with GZ’s story. When your client doesn’t mention the photo being taken, how is O’Mara suppose to explain that omission?

          • Wow your video just cleared up ALL confusion I had about what happened right before TSmith *clocks* in!
            Thank you!

            To me your videos are very nuanced. Like opening a present slowly.
            I have to concentrate and watch some a couple times before I actually *get it*!
            That’s because most of what you come up with go WAY over my head!! Lol
            I found new ones so I’ve been watching some of them tonight! Thank you xena!

          • Xena says:

            @Shannon.

            I have to concentrate and watch some a couple times before I actually *get it*!

            You have no idea how precious your comment is and how important it is to me. You see, there are some videos intended for the viewer to ponder the answer or what it means based on the content. It follows the “show and not tell” approach.

            I don’t want to tell viewers that GZ is guilty but show them through his own words. Got another video in the works but right now, I’m tired. Listening to Don West for 5 minutes is enough to make me want to sleep for the next 50 years. LOL!

          • cielo62 says:

            shannoninmiami~ Just be glad Xena doesn’t charge admission!

            ________________________________

          • Xena says:

            LOL@cielo62.

            Just be glad Xena doesn’t charge admission!

            Them thar are cat fight words. 🙂

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes and Jon Manalo is out there meeting “Frightening Stranger and Armed Killer Gunman” in the dark, with the gun still in his hand, and asks him to kneel down so the picture can be taken? This is the guy who has, what looks like a blood stain on his garage door frame. He’s out there being chummy with the gunman he doesn’t know, supposedly, and is ready, willing and able to call the gunman’s wife when asked.

            Pity Bernie isn’t going to need all this evidence. He’ll have more than enough to put on his case already, and so much more to impeach any case the defense tries to put on, all they can reasonably do is remain silent. Two days? Three tops, since the defense has nothing they can use, that won’t make things even worse than they are.

            Does anyone here know what the defense can put on, that would not be so quickly and easily knocked down, that the defense would look foolish and disrespectful for having tried to put it on?

            I don’t see a defense! But that’s just me. I would, however, like to be informed of what the defense might be.

  53. SoulSistaWoo says:

    I would like to have seen at least 1 AA, male or female. I really would have preferred G81. My only hope is that the jury consist of all females… mothers & nurturers

    I am disappointed in BDLR’s performance during this final jury selection.

    • groans says:

      He’s nowhere near as aggressive as O’Mara. But I think he doesn’t sweat stuff as much as O’Mara, either – he’s more confident in general, and has probably “seen it all” and dealt with it all in his gazillions of criminal trials over the decades. He can deal with whatever comes up along the way.

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        Yeah, I agree with you. BDLR has a reassuring confidence and a strong case. My concern is when they go into that deliberation room, which of them will have understood the evidence and has the passion to fight for Justice for Trayvon. Can these jurors relate to / empathize with an AA family and victim.

        I am concerned.

      • Malisha says:

        They don’t have to sympathize, empathize or “feel” anything one way or another. That’s what EVIDENCE is for. They can sympathize with Fogen (“Poor guy should have known better”) and empathize with Fogen (“Oh gee, I would have been feeling terrible if I got charged with a crime!”) and they can whistle in the rain without any feeling at all when they contemplate the fact that an unarmed Black kid was killed. BUT they have to do their duty to the State of Florida. That means they have to listen to the evidence (Fogen saw, PROFILED, followed, scared, confronted and shot dead an unarmed kid while his mind was depraved by the thought that he was entitled to administer his own form of justice to a suspicious “a55hole” who did not respond to him as he wished and while he was exercising ill will) and listen to the jury instructions (You must not make your decision based on impressions of whether or not the victim blah blah blah but only on the evidence and “reasonable doubt” means doubt that a reasonable person would have about the evidence) etc. etc.

        Will those two white women who were not “keepers” on BDLR’s list be willing to totally disregard the evidence AND the jury instructions and furthermore be able to sway the four “keepers” to completely give up all good sense and proper citizen’s conduct and just say, “Well Hell the kid was no good who cares if the guy murdered him”? I DON’T THINK SO.

        I think we’re doing fine here. I don’t think we have a jury that will nullify the law of the State of Florida. I don’t think we have a jury of KKK members in disguise as relatively normal white women. I think we need to bring down our upset that there were some peculiar rulings here, trust Judge Nelson, trust these six women who are our fellow Americans (except you, LeaNder and you, Amsterdam and you, Aussie and you, Jun) and keep cheering for BDLR to do what he knows how to do.

        IOW I think we’re doing fine. I wish that on 2/26/2012, Trayvon Martin had ONE PERCENT of the good luck we have today, getting ready for the trial that has proven already that there IS some semblance of law in Florida.

      • groans says:

        Thanks, Malisha! Please feel free to keep “talking me down” whenever you feel so inclined.

    • Tasha Harris says:

      I can’t believe he was surpised by the juror who posted her summons on FB and they didn’t do research to find out about the ladies church. Further, O’Mara has no proof the lady read the article her church posted or was present for a Sermon so BDLR didn’t fight enough for her BUT, the good news is they are gone so tha reduces the chances of a successful appeal.

    • I wanted G81 or either E22. I’m disappointed they didn’t get on.

  54. Two sides to a story says:

    West looks like he doesn’t know where he is.

  55. type1juve says:

    What this says to me is that the defense thinks women are stupid.

    • Boyd says:

      I think they’re scared of men. ones who will roll the window down to talk to Trayvon. “hey, I’m on night watch patrol, you need help?”

      They’re hoping for the “I’m scared like George” female crowd.

    • Ms.X says:

      Maybe not stupid, but maybe more easily manipulated. Women are raised to want to please, to want to keep the peace, to enable. Omara is counting on being able to trick them with straw men & red herrings.

    • Malisha says:

      Well perhaps THEIR wives, daughters and mothers ARE.

  56. Sleuth says:

    I still believe the confessed murderer will be convicted, and found GUILTY.

  57. Sophia33 says:

    If you look at the post from last night, three of the jurors that were listed as Keepers made it. One was only considered for dismissal because of heard ship. So the Defense only got two of the 6 jurors.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That’s a positive way of looking at it! I also trust women to follow jury instructions more than men. Some of the most vocal, diehard, butt-stubborn Fogen supporters are men.

    • gbrbsb says:

      If the one considered for dismissal for cause of hardship, that would have been B29, the Hispanic nurse from Chicago with 8 kids under 20. I am not saying she will but I would not be surprised if she still gets excused.

      In the case one does get excused for whatever reason I wonder which of the alternates would sit ?

  58. Sleuth says:

    OOoooWEeeeee! I bet they’ve got some stories to tell!

  59. Boyd says:

    Well Professor you got 3 keepers on. do you think E-6 will be the foreman?

    • Sophia33 says:

      Three keepers. Plus B29 was only considered to be removed because of hardship. B29 is from Chicago. So that might me they are a little more forward thinking.

  60. Dave says:

    I’d be happier with at least 1 or 2 men on the jury to provide insight into normal male behavior in a street encounter.

    • chi1224 says:

      I agree Dave

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Women have sons and brothers and husbands. They’re not totally clueless about male behavior.

    • youre so right. that really would help to show what a cowardly POS gz is if a man were to explain why he thinks gz should’ve never gone after a young kid and should’ve exercised way more self control ( AS A MAN) since he’s the grown up here and the one with a gun , thus the one who’s completely responsible for everything that happened that night!

    • groans says:

      I would, too, Dave – and for more reasons just that one you mention.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I agree.
      Anyway this is what he have. There are some good members on that jury.

  61. degraveegmailcom says:

    Not one Black juror.
    I am totally disgusted with how little Bernie stuck up for them.

    • Ms.X says:

      In the end, he didnt lose a relative or his white privilege. He can just say that he did his best and lost. He has no skin in the game one way or another. You win some, you lose some.

      • degraveegmailcom says:

        Thanks Xena, but what if there’s no reason to appeal?
        I hope you’re right of course.

        • Xena says:

          @degraveegmail.com.

          Thanks Xena, but what if there’s no reason to appeal?
          I hope you’re right of course.

          It’s common for defendants to appeal convictions. At least here, Bernie has removed the racial aspect of prejudice as a basis.

    • Xena says:

      @degraveegmailcom. Bernie took away the defense’s power to argue race in the event of an appeal.

      Warfare is knowing your enemy’s weapons and ammunition. Destroying their ammunition renders their weapons useless.

  62. Two sides to a story says:

    Fogen’s looking worried. That’s a good sign.

    • Xena says:

      GZ is toxic, and any jurors who might lean his way will be affected by his toxicity.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Indeed. We’ve watched how that works that past 18 months.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides. Exactly! We should not forget the positive energy that resulted in GZ’s arrest. There is no room for fear in this — just continue overcoming fear and lies with truth.

    • Tasha Harris says:

      He’s faking. He only started sweating when they discussed black jurors, the greasy pig.

  63. Tasha Harris says:

    Jury of our peers my ass. Are any of these women CCW’S? Do they understand that a gun carrier will not go anywhere they don’t want to gun because the gun provides authority? She’d better allow the voice Experts or I’m tuning out to keep from going beserk.

  64. amsterdam1234 says:

    Very bad for this trial not to have a single back juror on it. I think Nelson should’ve taken that into consideration and struck two wf.

    • concernedczen says:

      Yes, exactly. It’s not like white females are a protected class here…most of the potentials were white females.

      She should have at minimum allowed Bernie to strike all of the WF’s that he wanted to with the PE’s.

    • groans says:

      Exactly. Nelson was just plain foolish on those calls.

      She got bamboozled – and I’d bet money she will be bamboozled throughout trial. I had given her more credit than that, but I don’t have much confidence in her at all, now.

  65. Malisha says:

    The only thing that worries me is that if Fogen gets a hung jury, the blame will have to fall on WOMEN! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

  66. smokeegyrl says:

    I seen the smile on Hirshhorn’s face.

    • Nef05 says:

      Anything that makes him smile, I don’t like.

      Also, when BDLR added another object for E-6, he looked kind of defeated and not like his usual passionate self. Didn’t like that message I got from that, either. But, I’m still processing (is West contagious?), so it’s gonna take me a while to absorb the nuances of this selection.

  67. Wow, I’ve never seen an all female jury.

    I think this is great for the state.

  68. I’m going to go completely wishful thinking/delusional and say that the state’s case is so strong that the jury could be made up of Martians and they would still convict. If this jury does convict, it will be difficult to argue against the verdict based on jury composition.

  69. amsterdam1234 says:

    Very disappointed Nelson felt she had to strike a balance. I don’t think any of these jurors individually is an unsurmountable problem, but I am concerned with the group as a whole. It just seems very unbalanced to me.

  70. Tzar says:

    O’Mara is hiding something about the jury

  71. Tasha Harris says:

    Can’t believe the state hasnt found a way to 86 E6! I smelled a rat since yesterday!

  72. concernedczen says:

    Professor, did Judge Nelson seem fair to you in how she handled this? All of the black jurors were stricken; yet the state was prevented from striking 2 white females.

    • Beverly Lawson says:

      If I am not mistaken, there is not an equivalence for protected class for females and blacks in the jury setting. The case Fred mentions is relevant specifically for Blacks and not being excluded for race alone. This may address your concern about the same standard not be applied….but I could be wrong, of course.

  73. Tzar says:

    Omara is way too content with the jury

  74. Alternates: 2 males and 2 females.

  75. Lynn says:

    I am also a 50 yr old white woman and you know my vote.

  76. Two sides to a story says:

    West looks lost.

  77. Sleuth says:

    O’Dirty is full of poop. He called out the name of E-28’s church, didn’t he?

  78. Boyd says:

    Why all women? And why did MOM object to white women being excused when 5 out of 6 are white?

    The jury is very unbalanced.

    Shut up MOM, the judge knows to get rid of the PJ information.

  79. omg so what did that lady juror say about Trayvon being expelled?? this is one of the jury members or alturnates?

  80. ZCBest says:

    Prof…what in the hell does all of this mean? I am getting nervous and that makes me angry.

  81. gbrbsb says:

    I disagree with JN… if there’s any doubt I would have thought it fairer to allow the strike… but IANAL and IMBW

    IMO this could be called shopping “shopping for jurors”.

    • Malisha says:

      Both sides must shop for jurors.
      Remember, though, there’s going to be a TRIAL.

      • gbrbsb says:

        IMO both shopping is just twice as bad.

        The State strikes were refused more than the defence’s so as it stands if I am correct according to Faux’s chart we have:

        JURORS

        6 females (NO MALES)
        5 married, 1 single
        3 middle aged, 2 elderly, 1 young
        5 whites, one Hispanic (NO blacks)
        1 with 0 kids, 2 with kids under 20, 3 with kids over 20
        1 has 8 kids under 20 (don’t know how not excused for hardship), 1 has 2 kids under 20 (told them not to go out at night), 1 has a 24 yr old pet groomer and a 27 yr old student, 1 has a 28 attorney and a 26 yr old CNA, 1 has a son 28 and 1 has 0 kids.

        1 calls protests “riots”, i.e. tends to exaggerate, 1 advised kids not to go out at night, IMO not the right lesson for this case, 1 said “gun went off”, so very sanitised, 1 heard teenager was killed, and nothing much from the rest.

        With no males I fear the women will be much more impressionable to GZ’s “injury” pics; with no blacks I fear that none will understand what black kids have to deal with; with mainly middle to elderly they will be much less understanding of Trayvon and much more grateful to the super-GZ patrolling the neighbourhood keeping everyone safe.

        At this moment a very worried and concerned Frederick Leatherman’s Law Blog poster.

        I REALLY HOPE I AM WRONG TO WORRY.

  82. Tzar says:

    The state really wants E-6 off
    They need to digg a little further

  83. concernedczen says:

    Very disgusted with Judge Nelson right now.

  84. Sleuth says:

    Does E-28 know S. Z, Shel-lie Zimmerman?

  85. Sleuth says:

    ALTERNATES

    E-54
    B-72
    E-13
    E-28

    JURY

    B-29
    B-76
    B-37
    B-51
    E-6
    E-40

  86. Two sides to a story says:

    I can’t even write as fast as JN reads! LOL!

  87. omfg ALL the news channels are reporting the jury is picked!

  88. chi1224 says:

    For those worried about the jury I want to say I am a white woman, age 50, and I want justice for TRAYVON!! Keep the faith, as long as there are no stealth Zimbots the evidence will show the truth!

    • me, too Chi1224, but this is not right! an all female jury

      • chi1224 says:

        I know it does seem odd hinkster but I think we are stuck with it… now all we can do is hope they are sane, smart and fair.
        ps- thinking of your name- did you used to go to the hinky meter blog? If so, I so loved that blog 🙂

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Such a historic case should have a different demo. ON the other hand – a conviction would speak loud and clear!

      I too am white with a mixed, international family.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Chi: Are you from Chicago? One of the jurors is from Chicago. Also one is from Iowa. Perhaps some modern thinking will prevail.

      • chi1224 says:

        I’m from Pittsburgh, and then spent 15 in Youngstown, OH.. now in FL… at this point I’m just hoping they are all smart and no closet racists. If we have that then this case is a slam dunk. The actual evidence speaks VOLUMES, and shows what really happened here.

    • elcymoo says:

      It’s the ‘as long as’ that concerns me…I male alternate?

    • cielo62 says:

      chil224~ same here. 51, white hispanic and gz is a guilty SOB!

      ________________________________

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      I also white & older than 60 and what fogen to spend the rest of his days behind bars and the truth about what happened to be “in the news”.

  89. Sleuth says:

    Can’t believe BDLR dropped the ball on E-22. Why didn’t he get himself some paralegals like O’Dirty to do social media background checks,

  90. Alternates: E-54, B-72, E-13, E-28

    Defense challenges M-75 State objects as a pretextural gender and race strike, State withdraws objection. M-75 is stricken.

    State challenges defense strike of E-22. State objects to defense strike as a pretextural gender and race strike. State’s objection denied, E-22 is stricken

  91. Defense objects to 4 strikes by the State.

    B-12: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Denied
    B-86: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Denied
    E-6: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Granted
    B-76: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Granted

    • concernedczen says:

      How could she grant that when most of the potentials are white women. Of course most of the ones he wants to strike will be white women.

      With so few black jurors, it should be obvious that the person doing the discriminatory striking is O’mara since he has managed to strike every black juror.

      • groans says:

        Yup. O’Mara won this critical stage of the trial, and the jury consultant is feeling great cuz he earned his keep.

        The trial is now OFFICIALLY RACIAL – i.e., racially biased … THANKS TO JUDGE NELSON falling into O’Mara’s BS trap!

    • willisnewton says:

      Ah the wisdom of solomon… Cut the baby in half.

      • groans says:

        Yup – except Solomon used his wisdom to ascertain who truly loved the baby. Nelson actually DID cut the baby in half! She will probably look back on her decision with regrets, since it was not rational/logical.

  92. Sleuth says:

    Does not appear as though there will be any AA’s on jury.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Nope. None.

      • Sleuth says:

        @Sophia33

        I still believe he will be found GUILTY. God does not see color, but I do believe He knows what evil and wrong are.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Seems the defence had concentrated on doing their homework on black jurors to eliminate them… doesn’t seem fair to me.

      • Sleuth says:

        @gbrbsb

        I totally agree with you. As much as I hate to admit it, The Wiester and O’Dirty definitely took the time to do some social media background checks, can’t knock ’em for that.

        Nevertheless, I still believe we will get a GUILTY verdict.

        “God takes the foolish things of this world to confound the wise”.

  93. FactsFirst says:

    SMDH… Looks like O’Mara tricks worked… JN is a total disappointment

    • concernedczen says:

      Yes, she really is. Just like she got rid of H13 the other day for no reason.

      Maybe Judge Nelson is a stealth zimmerman supporter.

      O’Mara should not have been able to strike all of the AA potentials. Disgusting.

  94. type1juve says:

    This doesn’t look good for the state. I’m disappointed in the make-up of this jury.

  95. Sleuth says:

    The judges notes must be scribbled all over the place like mine. She seems to be getting some of her numbers confused.

  96. groans says:

    Is it an all-white jury? (Sorry to have to ask, but I couldn’t open Faux’s spreadsheet….)

  97. chi1224 says:

    All the women have children except for B51
    Mothers will think about Trayvon’s age, imo… Guess what you guys at this point all we can do is pray that they are all fair, and no Zimbot stealth jurors are in the mix

  98. She has allowed the strike of E22, the church PJ, a black woman.

  99. Two sides to a story says:

    She’ll allow the strike?

  100. MrSykes says:

    Dammit! Another black lady gone!

  101. Two sides to a story says:

    If this jury ends up with no one black . . . lord have mercy.

  102. Dammit MOM I’m an atheist, don’t make me defend churches.

  103. Did BDLR just make a Batson challenge?

  104. Two sides to a story says:

    I feel anxious and nauseated!

  105. whonoze says:

    Guilt by association. Rev. Wright all over again. It’s a Unitarian Church, forchrissakes, they don’t exactly walk lock-step behind their pastors.

  106. Oh no he didn’t. Did O’Mara just say that the Orlando Sentinal is very very pro- Trayvon Martin??????

  107. Nef05 says:

    Is he trying to strike a juror for a letter and a sermon that someone ELSE wrote? WTH?!?

  108. i hope the judge can go back to Bernie’s strikes on the 2 women now that it’s all women on jury! Can they?

  109. Ms.X says:

    I’m getting really upset & having a visceral reaction. The only Black on the jury is Uncle Tom from Uncle Tom’s cabin. This can’t be good.

    Also, the visuals od zimmerman with his team of 6 attorneys and the prosrcution with just 2 guys-It reminds me of the OJ trial somehow.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Is there one black person on the jury? I don’t think so. I think it is all white.

    • whonoze says:

      B-35, black male, was struck by the State.

    • Malisha says:

      “Uncle Tom” was actually modeled on the Reverend Josiah Henson who was a hero and a run-away slave who made it to Canada and set up a school there, and who returned to Maryland (the area that is now Rockville) and “revisited” his “plantation” after the Emancipation. It always bothers me when “Uncle Tom” is used to refer to a collaborator.

      • Boyd says:

        I did not know that.
        My great grandfather was a run away slave from Prince George’s county, Joined the Union Army, wounded at the Battle of the wilderness, then spent10 years in the Calvary in one of those Buffalo Calvary units I forget 9th or 10th. , help to build Ft. Sill and settled in Oklahoma as a farmer. He did not have kids until his 50’s.

  110. disappointed says:

    Is B76 a while male?

  111. Jury: B-29 B-76, B-37, B-51, E-6, and E-40

    [B-35 struck by the State]

    .

  112. Tzar says:

    Bernie better double check these facebooks
    the defense is not beneath pulling a fast one with fake accounts

  113. fauxmccoy says:

    oh man – i want B-76 outta there!

  114. Boyd says:

    Did some DINGBAT put her summons on facebook?

  115. MollyK says:

    With only 6 jurors, it’s hard to get a jury that is balanced across multiple characteristics.

  116. chi1224 says:

    So we have an all women jury….

  117. omg is this the whole jury now? does anyone get to do pre empt strikes after this is over?? omg i’m confused! is this it?????

  118. IMBack says:

    ALL WOMEN? IDK about this!!

  119. MollyK says:

    An all-white jury. This is distressing. And it sounds like the defense has a good reason for getting rid of the young black woman. Posted her jury summons on facebook? This younger generation!

  120. Sophia33 says:

    So is P67 still on the jury?

  121. jury is b-29,b-76,b-37,b-51,e-6 & e-40 right? 5 w/f’s 1 b/f

  122. Nef05 says:

    I recall a juror mentioning a friendship with a witness, but stated they had not been in touch for a year or so. Is this the same witness?

  123. Sophia33 says:

    Sorry M75. Why did she post on FB? So stupid.

    • Sleuth says:

      Not because she posted to FB, but because she did not reveal that she was FB friends with West Robinson when they were asked.

      The judge said it will remain stricken.

  124. gbrbsb says:

    Bernie just noted his disagreement with two the State had wanted to strike but accepted court decision… is that significant ?

  125. Xena says:

    O’Mara just named a witness. He is lower than shit.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Isn’t she on the witness list ?

      • Xena says:

        PJ M75 is a FB friend with a witness. O’Mara named the witness. That means Zidiots can look up his FB and try to identify the PJ in addition to doxing the witness.

      • Nef05 says:

        Yes, but all the names were not released to the public. O’Mara just outed one, prior to testimony, giving an opportunity for said witness to be doxed prior to testimony. Hence Xena’s well-founded reaction.

    • OMG he sure did and basically said all the zimmerlovers where to find this potential jury- on this witness’s facebook!!

  126. Sophia33 says:

    Watch the defense argue against E75

  127. Do we have a jury?!

  128. dianetrotter says:

    I wonder how much they are paying the AA woman attorney to help GZ?

  129. gbrbsb says:

    I don’t know what their deal is…

  130. Nef05 says:

    Who did she keep. I know she kept the one who asked why TM was out late getting candy, but who was the other one?

  131. rayvenwolf says:

    Mark you aren’t going to win this argument about the fact that these PJs are being stricken just because they are white and women.

    Of course thats on his presumption that white women will favor GZ.

  132. fauxmccoy says:

    anyone have a list of strikes so far? i am denoting them in red on my spreadsheet – but missed beginning of this portion of trial

    HELP!!!

  133. MollyK says:

    Did the judge overrule Bernie’s striking of the woman who questioned TM’s being out at night getting candy?

  134. gbrbsb says:

    Hopefully if they let GZ judge which are better and which not he will get it as wrong as he did with Trayvon !

  135. chi1224 says:

    So far we have B-29, B-76, B-37, B-51, E-6, E-40

  136. b-29.b-76,b-37,b-51 e-6 and e40 so far in

  137. Sophia33 says:

    Who were the two that he got? What did they say?

  138. dianetrotter says:

    So they do go back to see if there is a balance. I wondered how they do that.

  139. whonoze says:

    Nelson just caved to a fallacious argument from MOM, and one she KNEW to be fallacious.

    • Tzar says:

      I don’t get it , why is she so acquiescent to them?

    • groans says:

      It was completely fallacious. Prosecution gave good reasons for their peremptories, and judge stated over and over that the number of WW was a huge proportion. What a joke these “peremptories” are!!!

      And NELSON is sounding more and more LIKE LESTER every day!

      Malisha – I may need a “talk me down” about JN again!

      Her ruling does NOT make sense to me – how can two be race & gender neutral, and two be supposedly race & gender based, without re-analyzing it based on the two — which would lead to the logical conclusion that NONE were, in fact, race and gender based?!

    • Sleuth says:

      I soooooo agree with you. She also made a lot of mistakes with the order and number of the jurors. It definitely was not one of her better days.

  140. Tzar says:

    Damn it nelson
    those were good strikes

  141. Xena says:

    I think O’Mara confused B76 with B86.

  142. Judy75201 says:

    I’m getting pissed.

  143. Tzar says:

    Why is O’Mara arguing common sense

  144. Stop being a racist ass, MOM.

  145. Sophia33 says:

    O’Mara is making an a55 out himself with this argument.

  146. Xena says:

    O’Mara is losing his race based arguments.

  147. fauxmccoy says:

    help me out – was on phone with collision repair shop.

    who has been struck so far?

    • Sleuth says:

      STATE

      B-12
      B-86

      • Sleuth says:

        I disagree with the judge not allowing the State to strike B-76.

        • Xena says:

          @Sleuth. (whispering) It was B86 that the State wanted stricken because of prejudice against Trayvon and his parents. O’Mara argued keeping on based on her number being B76, so it’s juror B76 who stays. B86 is out of the mix.

        • Xena says:

          Is the PJ who was disrespectful to Sybrina and said that Trayvon was “expelled” from school B76 or B86? Because the State moved to strike B86 and O’Mara argued in favor of the PJ referencing her as B76 and Judge Nelson allowed B76.

    • Sleuth says:

      @Xena

      According to my very poorly written notes, JN did not allow the strike for B-76, W/F.

      She is the one who allegedly asked, “Why was Trayvon out late at night buying candy?”

      She also allegedly mis-identified a B/F spectator in the gallery as being Sybrina Fulton.

      —————————————————-

      Again, referring to my very poorly written notes, JN did allow the State’s strike with juror B-86, W/F.

      Allegedly juror B-86 said Trayvon would not have been murdered if he had never been suspended from school.

      I think it was after this strike, the judge did a count of juror’s based on gender.

      I admit, my notes could be wrong. It was kinda hard trying to keep up. At times, the judge was calling out the wrong juror numbers and had to be politely corrected, so I may have mixed up some of the numbers.

      • Xena says:

        @Sleuth. Thanks. B86 was struck. B76 was not. B86 is the one that blamed the victim for being “expelled” and out at night. Hope I got that correct.

  148. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Omara is rambling… he sounds dejected and rejected…

  149. disappointed says:

    State attorney is killing me with his facial expressions.

  150. How many strikes do they get?

  151. Tzar says:

    woo hoo
    way to show some guts judge

  152. Sophia33 says:

    Good B86 is gone.

  153. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    She said plainly it was Trayvon’s fault because he was suspended.. strike her… she’s out Omara has no valid reason to keep her! GO BDLR GO!

  154. Sophia33 says:

    B86 should be excluded for saying that this wouldn’t have happened if Trayvon hadn’t been suspended. BDLR didn’t explain this well. Terrible.

  155. chi1224 says:

    Judge Nelson is doing a great job! STFU O’Mara!

  156. Two sides to a story says:

    Maybe the speed that JN is moving.

  157. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    you go JN!!! she was a zimm bot

  158. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Most of the jurors are women and white.. what is the problem, they will be struck most frequently…

  159. chi1224 says:

    B12 gave to Zimmerman’s defense fund! OMG

  160. MOM is complaining about Bernie striking 4 white women

  161. Tzar says:

    why does the defense seem so unprepared

    • Malisha says:

      They were preparing a defense on what Fogen had for breakfast and it just didn’t pan out! (omelet pan) See, O’Mara TOLD Judge Nelson he needed more time! They had to prepare a defense based on what he had for lunch and dinner too!

  162. chi1224 says:

    was b-12 struck?

  163. dianetrotter says:

    love watching the Faux matrix with this.

  164. Patricia J-C says:

    B12; B29; B76; B7;B37; B51

  165. whonoze says:

    B7 was NOT struck by the defense! ???

  166. Nef05 says:

    Did they just seat 6 jurors in 10 minutes?

  167. Sophia33 says:

    Wasn’t P67 the one said that the Bible says “Thou Shall Not Kill”?

    • Nef05 says:

      P67 is the one they questioned alone, in the courtroom, without the other PJs. The one whose wife wrote the letter for him detailing his hardship.

    • Sleuth says:

      No, that pj was sent home. I think he also had some health problems.

  168. Two sides to a story says:

    JN is tearing through this. Too fast for me!

  169. Malisha says:

    One time I remember a golden moment in court. My ex-husband, who had just delivered a pro se soporific speech (to which my atty did not object because he was actually asleep!) while pounding on a stack of papers that he never even flipped through (they were only a prop after all) announced: “Your Honor, my only weakness, that is on evidence, because she is manipulating all time the court and did not make any.”

  170. Defense has no challenges for cause.

  171. Sleuth says:

    I hope O’Dirty wins this round. P67 will hate his guts for this, and it will not bode well for his client. I hope he stays.

  172. State challenges P-67 for cause.

    Defense objects.

    Challenge denied.

  173. Sophia33 says:

    Hey I have an evidence question. Doesn’t the location of the body, the shell casing placement point more to Zimmerman being on top of Trayvon Martin at the time he was shot?

  174. Judy75201 says:

    Stellar reasons to strike for cause.

  175. Tzar says:

    p67 for cause
    hardship

  176. Tzar says:

    back in session

  177. chi1224 says:

    back on….

  178. Cross fingers, pray and hoodies up everyone here we go!

  179. I’d strike B37 her hubby is an attorney and might be a defense attorney

  180. OK, nobody wants to touch that question.

    Assuming the defense strikes B7, he will be replaced by B-37, the animal rescue person.

    She works for a chiropractor. Has 2 daughters. One is a student; one is a pet groomer. Her husband is a space attorney. She described the protests as “riots.” She used to have a concealed carry permit, but let it expire because she never carries..

    • chi1224 says:

      I hope B-37 “riot” person gets a strike. The protests about Trayvon were not “riots”… I don’t like her mentality.

      • OK, let’s assume Bernie strikes her.

        Who does the defense strike?

        Let’s assume it’s B-35 and they get over the Batson objection.

        Now B-51 moves into the box and she’s a leader and potential foreperson because supervised 1200 people when she was the director of a call center.

    • willisnewton says:

      I’m trying to examine how the defense might use every arrow in their quiver to get to an all white, all male jury..

  181. willisnewton says:

    I’m preparing myself to hear MOM argue to jettison some black PJs for spurious reasons in an obvious attempt to flout the supreme court’s ruling on such practices.

    There’s little they haven’t stooped to already. Open and blatant racism isn’t going to surprise me.

  182. chi1224 says:

    I hope Bernie strikes I-24. Older white woman who commented that she worries about people who carry guns and do not have a permit. I get a bad vibe from her.

  183. Trained Observer says:

    concerned — you didn’t ask me, but my experiencw is that numbers chosen to stay are called out and seated in the appropriate seats in order. Remainder are thanked for their time and released.

  184. concernedczen says:

    Professor, will the jurors be present when each side exercises their strikes and then will the judge ask the stricken juror to leave the room or something?

  185. Would y’all want B-35 on the jury, if he were a white guy?

    • concernedczen says:

      Not from his comments the first day. But after that he seemed reasonable when talking about his family. I didn’t hear if he said anything today.

      • He mentioned being sucker punched by a guy while attempting to collect rent from a female tenant.

        Then the guy got a knife and B-37 got a bat out of his vehicle.

        The guy went back inside the house. B-35 called the cops and waited in his vehicle for them to arrive.

        He admitted to being in 5 fights winning some and losing some.

      • Boyd says:

        Certainly MOM did not want to hear “waited in the vehicle”

      • Malisha says:

        Is there any indication that he wouldn’t listen to reason? Because REASON is on BDLR’s [our] side.

    • willisnewton says:

      Good question but he’s NOT a white guy.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Yes — I like that he did a stretch in Marine Corps and is a rental property owner who hopefully understands what it’s like to have a deadbeat tenant (if that comes out at trial) and who understands HOA liability, should that issue surface.

    • Boyd says:

      hold on, he didn’t like the idea of everyone carrying CCW because you don’t know anything about them. I agree with that, (also don’t know if the CCW holders are on medications. hint)

      if that’s the guy, I think one can persaude him to a degree, maybe both ways. Given what’s left he may have to be on the jury. My choices were the two teenagers (one had obey shirt and ate up West, the other was always asked how his mom felt), the Lady who lived with daughter and Grandsons, the arts lady who lived in town, and the black guy who voiced his opinions about young black teens death seem unimportant, and maybe the girl who had a thumbs up on facebook on trayvon’s picture and was interested in music. Don’t know the numbers.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Definitely not.

  186. ic2fools says:

    To be honest O’maras’ performance today does not leave him much choice. He insulted PJs’ while others were offended by him insulting those PJs’, his questions didn’t do much to find those who would be good choices for defense.

    He’ll definetly strike the lady whose nephew was killed from the home invasion.

  187. The State goes first. They have to strike 1 of the 1st 6 or they accept the 1st 6 as the jury.

    Are y’all willing to accept the 1st 6 as the jury?

    • concernedczen says:

      That’s a scary proposition

    • concernedczen says:

      Looking over the 1st six jurors, I think they would be a good jury for the prosecution especially B7, B35 and B29.

      They should strike B12 though or try to get her out for cause somehow, but then they’d have B37 whom they should also strike.

  188. Trained Observer says:

    Regarding Fogen’s persistent morning slouch, first cited upthread. Does he have a boil on his ass?.

  189. ic2fools says:

    Apologies I don’t have ‘Faux spreadsheet in front of me and have been trying to keep up with PJ numbers matching with their voices. I;m going by memory. It a choice between the call center lady who manges 1200 or the gentlemen who is a teacher the one Omara asked if was or had been a member of the black panther party (ugh!)

    • Trained Observer says:

      I must have been on phone. He really asked a black PJ if ever a member of the black panthers. Did he specify new or old? Isn’t that tantamount to asking a white PJ if ever a member of …. well, I won’t even get into that.

      • ic2fools says:

        I remember that before we got to this point, when he first questioned the AA teacher. Not sure which day, I’ve been in and out of the hospital since first day it started. I was not feeling well that day and sleepy, that woke me straight up, then I threw up.

        Now if I am in err please someone correct that for me.

      • disappointed says:

        KKK? I will. If he did imo he is out of bounds.

      • Trained Observer says:

        ic2fools — Hope you’re feeling better. If Fogen testifies, keep a trash can by your side just in case.

      • ic2fools says:

        I have not found what I believed I heard. My apologies, I should not have made that statement. I had just got out of the hospital after a procedure and the anethsia had not worn off. I sincerely apologize. I truly believe that is what I had heard. I still will continue to review juror testimonies to make sure.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      WHAT?!!!! Did he actually ask that question?

      • ic2fools says:

        I’m reviewing that right now, I am quite sure that is what I heard.

        I will get back with you about it. Not sure how long but I will be back for sure.

      • ic2fools says:

        I have not found what I believed I heard. My apologies, I should not have made that statement. I had just got out of the hospital after a procedure and the anethsia had not worn off. I sincerely apologize. I truly believe that is what I had heard. I still will continue to review juror testimonies to make sure.

  190. Boyd says:

    I missed most of the audio, I’ll have to trust y’alls opinion.

  191. whonoze says:

    Prof.:

    I’m not clear on the Self-Defense law in FL. You’ve written that in general it’s an “affirmative defense” which shifts at least some burden to the defendent to establish just cause as defined by the relevant statutes. But MOM is talking as if the burden remains completely on the State, as if regardless of what the Defense presents or doesn’t present, as long as he says “Self-Defense’ in his opening statement, the burden falls entirely on the State to prove BRD that GZ did NOT act in self-defense.

    Can you help clarify?

    • The burden of proof is on the state.

      However, the defense has to introduce some evidence of self-defense in order to be able to get an instruction on it and argue it to the jury.

      GZ is going to testify.

      • Malisha says:

        Wait — Do we know for a fact that Fogen’s gonna take the stand? How?

      • Tzar says:

        GZ is going to testify.

        “Hold all my calls!”
        -Me

      • Malisha says:

        If Fogen is going to testify then I predict he will have a story that is not ANY of the stories he has told already. He will have a different version altogether, one that both West and O’Mara have carefully designed to “get around” the problems presented by the undeniable forensic evidence. He will also have excuses rehearsed for why he gave the wrong information to the police. It will be somewhat elaborate and he will resist cross-examination by not remembering anything that relates to inconsistencies. Lots of it will be designed to incorporate “bad impressions” of Trayvon. We will all be astonished and we will recognize the fact that Fogen couldn’t come up with any of it on his own.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha~ I agree with you. He will have to memorize a new script. BUT LUCKILY he’s not smart enough to survive a cross examination of the type Bernie can give.

          ________________________________

  192. Given the 1st 6 in the box, who is likely to be the foreperson?

  193. disappointed says:

    Quick questions on opening statements. Do you think the Judge is trying to rap this up so she can send Jurors home to get their stuff in order? Shooting for Monday as the start of trial? Just seems really quick to get stuff in order?

  194. I believe the defense may strike B-35, but they are also likely to strike B-7 and B-37

  195. ic2fools says:

    Keep for now I maybe wrong he sounds like a follower.

  196. This recess is our opportunity to discuss strikes.

    Let’s start with the first 6.

    What do y’all think of B35, the black gentleman who owns rental properties and vending machines.

    Keep or strike?

  197. Boyd says:

    Problem is if you fire a response back he does not like, you are off the Jury.
    We call people under 18 a minor for a reason. The are not allowed to carry guns. How can they be treated the same in self-defense since the minor is unarmed.

  198. Nellie Nell says:

    Damn damn damn, why do people call me while I am watching the trial??? Perhaps I should have let it go to VM because I missed West get his ass chewed out yet again. This morning the internet guy took just over an hour to get my modem fixed and when he left, I still had slow to no connection! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr

    • disappointed says:

      No ass chewing, she asked them to take 30 minutes for lunch. Then work on how they wanted to use strikes. West said perhaps an an hour and 15 and started to ramble JN said be back at 2 and walked off. West was still standing there when her door shut. Still roflmao.

  199. Leisa says:

    She told him a short lunch was best so as to address other items before Frye and he pissed her off. I expect she will keep them there until it is finished no matter how late. She knows they are still doing everything possible to get a delay and is having NONE of it. Love it.

  200. Court will reconvene at 2 pm.

    Not clear, but I think she wants the lawyers to be prepared to exercise their strikes at 2 pm.

    That will be followed by the Frye hearing.

    Looks like opening statements will start tomorrow at 9 am.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Wow, really? I feel like I blinked (i.e., worked lol) and am delighted to find we are so near to opening statements!

  201. SoulSistaWoo says:

    Oooooo! Judge Nelson was agitated by West’s uncompromising position on taking a shorter lunch.
    Her patience appear to be getting extremely short with him. He should tread lightly.

  202. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    She don’t like West and MOM…. they think everyone should give them preferential treatment while they smile and shit in the face of everyone else…

  203. Oh wow, jury strikes today then? Does that mean we will have a jury today?

    • disappointed says:

      I do not know, but I think JN is ready to light a fire under the defenses ass.

      • I know, it was as if she was begging the man. Also, one PJ did mention a health condition relating to diet, and if she is say for example, diabetic or something, O’Mara really needs to pay attention to that.

        Judge Nelson made it very clear she was not cutting him off…but then he pressed on, and I am not so sure stuff like that is such a great idea.

      • ic2fools says:

        Mi Too! I envisioned the perverial swift kick in West butt.

  204. Nef05 says:

    Good afternoon, everyone. If they’re back at two, for challenges and cause – but the Frye hearing starts at two – how does that work?

  205. chi1224 says:

    So will the Frye hearing be before or after the continuation of jury selection?

  206. Rachael says:

    He said hour and 15 minutes and she cut him right off and said okay while he was still rambling. LOL. Love it.

  207. Tzar says:

    Nelson is so pissed at West
    Did you see how she cut him off to announce recess?

    • Nef05 says:

      Oh, did he have another “moment” this morning? Has he been arguing with the judge over objections, again? Haven’t had a chance to read the comments from this morning.

    • Sleuth says:

      Yep. That der boy done lost his daggone mind! Must be dipping some of The Wiester’s snuff again.

  208. dianetrotter says:

    Obvious JN was short with West. Is she pissed?

  209. disappointed says:

    lmao she cut West right off.

  210. glenalexx says:

    I guess we can see the office upgrades, all of defense scheme meme, have shiny Dells.

  211. Recess for lunch at 12:45 pm EDT.

  212. Sleuth says:

    I realize there’s a lot of humor going on in the courtroom, but the defense needs to warn their client that all the wide smiling does not bode well for him.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I hope they continue to encourage him to smile and appear personable (or so he thinks that is what he’s doing)… the jurors will begin to question his mental health… “What sane person who has taken a life, could sit in court at their trial on murder 2 charges and find ANYTHING humorous.” Sane people do not find anything funny in taking a life or spending the rest of their life in prison.

      He is the poster child of a sociopath.

  213. Rachael says:

    Did he just argue with the judge?

  214. fauxmccoy says:

    just waking up … o’mara asking if a 17 year old’s life is worth more than any others, gets a couple of people to say ‘no’.

    i would have to ask why do laws add a penalty to sentencing if the victim is a minor? is this not a concession that our children are precious?

    • Sleuth says:

      @fauxmccoy

      Hey Sug, I’ve deen looking for you. Nice to see you. We saved a seat for you. I’m moving a little slow myself, had an allergic reaction to some aspirin I took this morning, but I think I’ll live.

      Just want to tell you again, what a fantastic job you did on the spreadsheet…….damn you’re good !:-)

      YOU SAID: “i would have to ask why do laws add a penalty to sentencing if the victim is a minor? is this not a concession that our children are precious?”

      Yes, that’s just what it means. Children are just that, children and NOT adults. And as it pertains to this case, Trayvon, being the child, had no obligation to tell the confessed murderer ANY
      THING, nor was he supposed to know he had a CCW permit or gun, or any adult for that matter.

      That’s just my simple and basic answer but I’m sure the Professor, and those here who have a legal background can better answer your question.

      Again, good to see you in court today my friend.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        thank you so much for your kind words. hope you are doing better after your aspirin incident.

        oh, i know the answer to my question. rhetorical. 🙂

    • gbrbsb says:

      And that they cannot be held to exactly the same accountability as adults because they are precisely NOT adults… that said, over here and I believe over there, they are prosecuting ever younger kids as adults.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @gbrbsb

        agreed — as a society, we enact laws to protect those least capable of protecting themselves — the young, the infirm, and the elderly. o’mara is blowing smoke on this one.

    • ic2fools says:

      @Faux

      I remember last year when I first begin researching info about differences in Murder 1 and Murder 2. Came across the law adding a penalty to sentencing when it a minor and elderly. Our children are precious but not to those who will step on them to dead and alive for their own benefits. No caring selfish sorry excuse of the explanation of humanity.

  215. Sleuth says:

    This is a very baaaaad example O’Dirty is showing. How in the world was Trayvon suppose to know the confessed had a gun or permit?

    What a pathetic strategy……..just pure dee pathetic.

  216. O’Mara has not questioned the panel regarding the defendant’s right to remain silent and the jury cannot presume anything because of that silence.

    That means GZ is going to testify.

  217. gbrbsb says:

    Doesn’t a minor automatically have “special consideration”. And the juror that said “everybody” should be treated equally from what age does he take “everybody” ?

  218. Dave says:

    Trayvon’s life wasn’t “lost” it was taken.

  219. Trained Observer says:

    Mom: Attitude difference between 17 and 18? … Black rather than any other race.

  220. Trained Observer says:

    We can only hope …

    Rene Stutzman‏@renestutzman9m
    O’Mara: I’m getting very close to being done. #Trayvon, #Zimmerman

  221. chi1224 says:

    I hope Bernie gets rid of I-24. I don’t have a good feeling about her.

  222. Nellie Nell says:

    WTH – Can there really be an objection yet the question is still asked?

  223. B-54 is concerned about people with concealed weapons, even if licensed.

    B-37 same

    E-42 same

    I-24 same. She’s more concerned about unlicensed people carrying.

  224. chi1224 says:

    Uh oh… I hope Bernie makes a note on that last lady….. I don’t like how she thinks, having a concealed permit is upstanding she is worried about the OTHER criminal types sneaking around….

  225. Big Willie says:

    What about the mental capacity of an individual with a permit… Doesn’t the matter?

  226. Two sides to a story says:

    WTF – I 24 is concerned about people not carrying weapons as well as those who carry illegally?

  227. dianetrotter says:

    Gz may be in trouble with this group!

  228. George Zimmerman lOOKS so ugly sitting there laughing like this is some comedy show!

    • abbyj says:

      TOAD. He’s a giant toad. I hate watching him laugh.

      In truth, I want to see him rolling on the floor, screaming his guts out, pulling his hair, frantic with fear. That’s my personal fantasy. I’ll make the popcorn.

  229. Two sides to a story says:

    Oh, now OM will want to get rid of the guy who doesn’t feel comfortable with people running around with guns. THese folks should keep some stuff to themselves.

  230. chi1224 says:

    Not comfortable with the Wild, Wild West…. then he needs to leave Florida

  231. H81 is a gated community manned by police.

  232. RobertSF says:

    I hope Gorge is soon living in a “gated community” again, if you know what I mean. 🙂

  233. gbrbsb says:

    1. Trayvon was a neighbour
    2. “Watch out for neighbours and keep the community safe” from whom ?

  234. I44 says everyone needs to be involved in Neighborhood Watch.

  235. gbrbsb says:

    Skinny guys who don’t look like they can punch but that punch like a “beast” as one witness said, don’t leave faces like GZ’s at the end of 2 mins, they leave something more like:

    http://tinyurl.com/o8pktly

  236. Dave says:

    Was that K95 who said NW watch should be on the lookout for people who don’t belong in the neighborhood?

  237. rayvenwolf says:

    Asking people’s opinion of NW. This is gonna be interesting.

  238. Beverly Lawson says:

    To Robert and Trained, No reply up there….Fell outta my chair, folks, thanks….LOL….Can we just be an act?

  239. B86 said appearances can be deceiving. He has a skinny friend who can administer a beating.

    • ic2fools says:

      Wow wait until B86 hears about Fogens’ gym membership, that little chair act defense is trying to make Fogen look like he needed a gun ain’t gonna work one bit.

  240. did you guys notice gz’s reaction a few minuets ago when BDLR objected to omars explanation of self-defense.
    gz snapped his fat neck with a look of complete contempt as if HOW DARE BDLR bother my lawyer!!
    it was right when my pic went out so it was stuck at that exact view!
    GZ is so disgusting and hateful.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      Yes he is… I could see that in him a looong time ago. He is also overbearing and evil.

      When he corrected Shaun his condo was not an apartment “It’s a Home”

      When Serino ask him why did you continue in the direction of (FOLLOW) Trayvon after the 311 operator said we don’t need you to do that… Fogen say, “I STILL wanted to get the address”

      • Big Willie says:

        Yep I caught all of that too. The “it’s a home” statement says a lot about his low self-esteeem. Not to mention he was a renting the unit he called a home. So you got the “self appointed” renter neighborhood watch captain. Fogen knows he’s trash, and in his soul he hates who he really is. He hides behind the facades he creates for himself.

  241. gbrbsb says:

    The arm wrestler I like, the one with the very peculiar accent… Isn’t he the 60 year old who does one arm push ups ?

  242. K95 kicked a motorcycle over, went inside and called the police.

    • type1juve says:

      The underlying theme here is that when these PJ’s found themselves in trouble and in need of police assistance they had sense enough to wait for them and let them handle it.

  243. ic2fools says:

    Omara just effed up! He should have not put her on the spot like that. When she asked why are you asking me that question all he had to ask was do you think that will have any bearing on you deciding in this trial and left it alone!

    Dam Fool now he has the whole lot of PJs’ sickened with him. I knew he would insult PJs’ I knew it.

    Whoop his butt again Judge Deborah!

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I had to step away… What rude thing did he say to the PJ.

      *SMH*

      • ic2fools says:

        I can only imagine how that PJ lady felt and the look she gave him. And other PJs’, yep he’s showing how insensitive he really is.

        I loved it when Judge Deborah took the Jury Instructions away from him the second time, sure called him out trying to twist meanings and leading PJs’

  244. E86 mentions the 2 robberies she worked at a fast food restaurant.

  245. Big Willie says:

    Jorge looks like he’s felling a little cocky and confident. He must be back on the adderall. hmmmm… I wouldn’t be surprised if he stats losing weight.

  246. Nellie Nell says:

    MOM is a real butt hole. He seems to do a great job of minimizing trauma that these PJ’s have experienced.

    The nephews murder from 13 years ago comment was insensitive as hell!

  247. E-73’s nephew was shot and killed 13 years ago. Home invasion shot through the door while he was sitting at a table.

    She’s not sure she can be fair and impartial.

  248. E-6 was beaten in an act of domestic violence and lost bits and pieces of her memory for awhile.

  249. Nellie Nell says:

    I like that he did not kill the people that gave him a real “beat down” and they had a “stale mate”! Idiot does not stand a chance!

  250. RobertSF says:

    Gorge is looking more alert now because it’s getting close to feeding time.

  251. B35 was attacked by a guy while attempting to collect rent. Guy sucker punched him. Guy went and grabbed a knife. He grabbed a bat and they had a stand-off.

    He got in his car and called the cops after they guy went inside.

  252. SoulSistaWoo says:

    That PJ said he has won a few fights and lost a few fights, it is what it is… (a fight). He can sit there and say that today, and has never killed anyone!

  253. chi1224 says:

    I wish this guy wasn’t sharing this story. O’Mara is going to get rid of him, DAMN!

  254. ic2fools says:

    Twice Omara, Judge Momma Nelson took a switch to ya! Your butt gotta be sore.

    Don’t run now, she see you…..

    (paraphrase – Riley, Boondocks… 😀

  255. B7 was in a fight with a bully in 6th grade.

    So what?

  256. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Just had a light bulb go off… GZ knew police were minutes away… Trayvon never touched GZ’s gun, he had TM at gun point and still pulled the trigger, so even if he had taken some blows and been banged up, it was not reasonable for him (GZ) to think that he was going to die or suffer great bodily harm and pull that trigger because help was on the way and he knew it.. TM did not.. guilty!

    • Oscar Terry says:

      NOBODY who thought that they had taken blows to the head that would cause great bodily harm is going to refuse to go to the hospital, and I don’t care how many stupid looking knuckle bandages that they paste on his head nobody is going to believe that…Anybody that has been beaten up, really beaten up are going to be impressed with those injuries.

  257. People are struggling with the meaning of a double negative.

    O’Mara’s intellectual clumsiness is making him look bad to the jury.

    Most of them are smarter than he is and they are probably beginning to realize that they cannot trust his interpretations of the law.

    He has created a reason not to trust him.

  258. Boyd says:

    he’s arguing with the Jurors, he’s had 1 year to formulate his arguments but believes it’s perfectly fair to solicit a response from a Juror on the spot. F him. I’d answer back “Maybe Trayvon had self-defense”

    keep arguing with the Jurors A-hole

  259. disappointed says:

    So does that Bill S guy still think MOM is doing a better job, or does he realize MOM has confused half of the PJs?

  260. SoulSistaWoo says:

    MOM is out of his Depth! This little dance between JN and MOM and Court procedure will be an ongoing issue throughout this trial…

    In addition to the fact that MOM will have a hard row to hoe and run into these issues…

    He can bring in Fogen’s statements
    He cannot assert Fogen’s declaration of Self-Defense
    He can’t say what a great guy Fogen is ect… He got nothing!

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      Should have read…

      He cannot bring in Fogen’s statements.

      • Ms.X says:

        Why cant the prosecution bring in his statements? He had a right to remain silent & he waived it, repeatedly. They need to conclude the case with his hannity interview statement, “I wouldn’t do anything differently” to show just how depraved he was. He is obviously a sociopath. He has shown no remorse at all for the taking of a life. Hes a frickin menace to society.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          Ms.X —

          the prosecution CAN bring in any of the defendant’s statements that they wish, the defense cannot due to hearsay laws.

          the only caveat is that the prosecution would not want to bring in a portion of any statement which might lead into self defense claims because the defense could force the portion of the statement regarding self defense claims to be read in order to ‘complete the context’ of the statement.

          the prosecution can and probably will use some of the defendant’s statements, but with caution. their goal is to mention absolutely nothing about self defense and to keep any witnesses from mentioning it (also hearsay).

          the only person who can legitimately make any self defense claim is the defendant and he must do so on the witness stand — and then, look out, because all bets are off — all of his idiot stories with ‘scooby doo trick endings’ will be on full display, every contradictory thing he has ever said will be brought up to undermine his credibility. i hope this is clear as far as an explanation.

      • bettykath says:

        Ms. X, The prosecution can bring fogen’s statements and probably will to impeach his testimony. The defense cannot bring in his statements.

  261. chi1224 says:

    During trial, please, please have somebody point out to the jury Fogen didn’t need so much as a bandaid that night!

  262. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    trying the case in jury selection… Hey MOM, thought you wanted the case tried in court not before you get to trial…

    • Malisha says:

      Perhaps MOM still imagines that Corey is going to leap up and shout, “Oh NOW I understand! I’m so SORRY! I withdraw these terrible charges — where’s my sackcloth and where are my ashes? I need to make it up to this poor accused citizen!”

      Hey O’Mara: probably not gonna happen. But you gave it the good college try, man!

  263. type1juve says:

    JN looks pissed at O’Mara for trying to take over her job.

    • Beverly Lawson says:

      I think it is a given that the Judge instructs on the law. If so, he is really out of bounds. And she is somewhat restrained, I guess, in order not to smack him down in front of the jury. Guess he really is dumb….

  264. disappointed says:

    Oh my GOD!

  265. Two sides to a story says:

    Ha. Smackdown.

  266. SoulSistaWoo says:

    Didn’t JN just say she would like to give the PJ all instructions… and here MOM is reading the instruction again.

    What an idiot!

  267. lurker says:

    He’s reading the instruction again.

  268. chi1224 says:

    Is O’Mara trying to read instructions AGAIN? wtf

  269. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    GZ has nothing to prove?????

    • Malisha says:

      IF the prosecution does not meet its burden, then Fogen has “nothing to prove.” If the prosecution proves that Fogen killed Trayvon Martin with a depraved mind and ill will, however, Fogen will have to prove self-defense.

      • groans says:

        But that’s not what O’Mara has been telling the PJs, from what I’ve heard. He has NOT said that the killer must prove self-defense; he said the opposite, that the state has the burden of proving no self-defense. (But I haven’t heard every word, so maybe I missed something.)

      • lurker says:

        Self-defense, under the law, requires a reasonable fear of death or severe bodily injury. Without Zim’s testimony I don’t know how that reasonable fear gets into evidence.

  270. SearchingMind says:

    Quo vadis, O’Mara, Quo vadis?! What are ya talking about and where the heck are you heading with it?! I am going to die of boredome.

  271. B7 may have a problem with applying the law.

  272. Dave says:

    SYG a new law and the courts still haven’t interpreted it so NOBODY really knows what it is.

  273. disappointed says:

    So basically Brandi will testify that Trayvon was a welcome guest and therefore he had the right to protect himself wherever on the property just as Fogen?

  274. amsterdam1234 says:

    Conceding it is a shitty law.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Why is O’Mara talking about SYG when (a) it not part of the trial-equation and (b) he himself does not even understand it or at least has misinterpreted it in the past? I think O’Mara want to emulate BDLR and show he knows something. But he is very bad at it, IMO. I am not sure he has a game plan. I am not sure that he would be able to say to himself after this: “my goal today was ‘A’, I achieved ‘A’ and ‘A’ serves my client well”.

  275. dianetrotter says:

    Just tuned in but I really like the questions PJs are asking.

  276. Romaine says:

    i’m glad she is shutting omara down

  277. Boyd says:

    I fixed my audio problem. It was firefix, I’m on IE now.

    Self-defense? Why is MOM assuming only GZ had that right?

  278. B7 is concerned about SYG.
    B76 doesn’t understand duty to retreat.

    Judge Nelson has had enough of this.

  279. disappointed says:

    So basically MOM is saying they both had the right to stand their ground.
    MOM is all kinds of f***ing up. Does he really have law degree?

  280. gbrbsb says:

    It appears, as I thought, that unless the prosecution can show GZ was acting unlawfully, and even then I believe Florida permits use of deadly force to meet deadly force, that it will all boil down to those last two minutes, alleged fight, alleged injuries, recordings and all.

    • gbrbsb says:

      But IMBW and IANAL and I am not saying by any means the defence will prove Trayvon did use deadly force and I personally don’t believe he did and that if he did at all hit GZ, which I don’t see that he did by the evidence, that it was in his own self defence.

      • Oscar Terry says:

        completely and totally agree

      • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

        Agreed… That should definitely be a topic during deliberations…

      • Malisha says:

        Absolutely. I haven’t been impressed by the “Homie, problem, no problem, problem now” thing from the START. Even if that idiotic and ridiculous statement were TRUE, Trayvon STILL would have been acting in self-defense because (a) Fogen followed him both in a car and on foot, and had a flashlight (he claims a non-working flashlight but Serino says it worked) that could easily have appeared to be a dangerous object; ad (b) when Trayvon asked either “Why are you following me for?” or “What’s your effin’ problem homie?” it was clear to Fogen that Trayvon believed he was being followed in the dark at night by someone holding a heavy object. EITHER WAY his refusal to immediately make it clear to Trayvon that the boy was not in danger made it obvious that Trayvon’s subsequent actions were defensive actions, no matter what those actions were. This jury seems to have the mental power to understand that. Fogen will find that there is not enough slouch room in the WORLD for him to escape that.

        Had he let Trayvon Benjamin Martin slouch down and avoid death that night, this would not be happening to him now. Tsk Tsk effin TSK!

        • gbrbsb says:

          Extremely well put Malisha… and gosh you are quick !

          I agree with you entirely, however will continue to cross fingers that we don’t get some biased idiot on the jury !

    • willisnewton says:

      I cannot see how credibility won’t play a huge factor in any deliberations. GZ lied to omit and obscure how the altercation began. IMO it “began” with illegal acts of aggression by the defendant – chasing w his car.

      • gbrbsb says:

        But of course willis… indisputable. Basically the jury must believe BARD GZ was reasonable to fear for his life or GBH to find him not guilty but how do they believe someone who lied so much, shows so little “injuries”, knew the police was soon to arrive, had followed Trayvon into the dark, etc. etc. etc. ?

        I just took down some of what JN read in part:

        “… that a reasonably cautious and prudent person would have believed that the danger could only be avoided by the use of deadly force.”

        “… reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent death or GBH.”

        As the rest I personally don’t think either fits what happened so we can but hope the jurors are likewise thinking.

  281. why doesn’t omar bother to remember their numbers like Bernie did?

  282. disappointed says:

    Haha! Paranoid.

  283. ay2z says:

    ‘that law’ syg?

  284. Two sides to a story says:

    Big swallow from Fogen.

  285. Ms.X says:

    Uh-oh. JN referred to gz as “the defendant.” I wonder if Omara is going to say something about it? She is losing patience with MOM, and rightly so.

  286. Woow! says:

    Good morning everyone. Is the audio turned off by the Court?

  287. ay2z says:

    The jurors will be allowed to consider stand your ground.

  288. chi1224 says:

    Let’s see, Fogen had a semi-automatic, and Trayvon had skittles…. is it reasonable that Fogen feared for his life? GMAB

  289. disappointed says:

    MOM keeps trying to do JN’s job in a half ass kind of way.

  290. gbrbsb says:

    What if this “battery” was Trayvon’s self defence ?

  291. chi1224 says:

    It was nice to hear Trayvon Martin’s name for a change!

  292. Patricia J-C says:

    MOM keeps trying to be the judge. Why are they letting him start with the instructions before they object? Are they sleeping?

  293. “Reasonable” is an objective standard (as opposed to subjective).

  294. Judge Nelson once again schooled Mark O’Mara that SHE will read instructions to the jurors. What’s with O’Mara?

  295. lurker says:

    Oh, oh. Looks like Judge Nelson doesn’t like O’Mara’s version of the instructions.

  296. Dave says:

    O’Mara omits the provision thatat a person comitting an illegal act (e.g. a robber who shoots an armed shopkeeper) cannot claim self defense.

  297. omg these jurors are brilliant!

    • Malisha says:

      I think a little voice inside Judge Nelson’s head is saying: “I knew I could I knew I could I knew I could…”

  298. gbrbsb says:

    Nice of MOM to emphasise “reasonable fear”.

  299. chi1224 says:

    This entire “self defense” thing by Fogen makes me so angry! I swear I will lose (even more) faith in humanity if he isn’t convicted! This was murder, period! Trayvon was screaming for his life!!

  300. amsterdam1234 says:

    Bernie should object. He is claiming the jury will get that instruction.

  301. Beverly Lawson says:

    Why would O’m think it is good practice to argue with a pj? And, do we know if O’m has ever tried a murder case in his life?

  302. gbrbsb says:

    So GZ self preserved !!!

  303. amsterdam1234 says:

    Keep digging O’Mara.

  304. chi1224 says:

    I’m surprised these PJs are being so chatty

  305. ay2z says:

    Are these jurors now talking about God given, or otherwise, ‘common sense.’

  306. lurker says:

    Looks like West is having a hard time processing again.

  307. degraveegmailcom says:

    Killing somebody in selfdefence is not being a good samaritan!

  308. amsterdam1234 says:

    O’Mara is thinking “damn, where are those people I’ve seen commenting on CTH.

  309. ay2z says:

    Law is outside the moment of human reaction to protect self.

    He says these are descrete concept and actions essentially. Heat of the moment decision to protect self.

    Agree with that– ooops, to get yourself away from a big scarey old man following him.

  310. B7 makes the point that defending another is not taking the law into your own hands.

  311. disappointed says:

    Who was Fogen protecting? No one was in danger of Trayvon. If anything they should have charged him with discharging firearm that close to all them apt/townhomes.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      His inner whiney child.

    • Yes, the evidence will show that the defendant was never in danger of being killed or seriously injured.

      The evidence will show that Trayvon was not only in that kind of danger, he was murdered.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Yes, reckless discharge of a firearm on common grounds of a gated community only yards from several inhabited residential units.

      SPD could have nailed him on that one that very night while they investigated further in anticipation of more serious charges. After all, they had a teenage boy’s unarmed body, shot through the heart, on their hands

      Did they really think that would be a slider? (Apparently Wolfinger did).

      • Malisha says:

        Plus there was a kid out walking his DOG when Fogen discharged his fire-arm. He could have killed ANOTHER kid and/or a DOG!

  312. degraveegmailcom says:

    whoops,missed
    I-5: Middle-aged AA male says he heard self-defense was involved with case, at one point referring to Fogen as “gentleman that was defending himself.” KEEP

  313. chi1224 says:

    The victim in this case was a minor!

  314. Two sides to a story says:

    Talking about coming to the aid. Fogen could have come to the aid of TM, himself, and the community by identifying himself.

  315. rayvenwolf says:

    Good Samaritan law? Really Mark?

  316. Protecting another person is not taking the law into your own hands.

    Bernie should object.

  317. There are stautues that would allow a person to protect a child. He’s just trying to obscure the issue. That has nothing to do with Good Samaritan.

  318. disappointed says:

    Protecting a child is a reason to take the law in your own hands. Killing a child not so much.

  319. chi1224 says:

    O’Mara likes that word “justify”…. was that the same guy who said he wasn’t sympathetic?

  320. gbrbsb says:

    Whether right or wrong is arguable, but, at least over here juries are taking sympathy into account when they come to what over here is called a “Perverse” verdict, e.g. the man who grew MJ to help his wife with MS, and despite the Judge instructing them that growing MJ was against UK law, the jury found him not guilty to avoid the greater injustice of sending him to prison.

  321. lurker says:

    Good Samaritan law relates to “taking the law into your own hands”?