Zimmerman: Day 8 Liveblogging Jury Selection Completed

Wednesday, June 19, 2013

Good afternoon:

We have completed liveblogging the 8th day of jury selection.

Bernie de la Rionda spent the day teaching and indoctrinating the panel of 40 prospective jurors (PJs) with the legal foundation of the case that he will present to them in opening statement. Judging by their reaction, he succeeded in building rapport and trust.

The defense has a big mountain to climb tomorrow.

Bernie used a mixture of one-at-a-time voir dire as to the entire group and then switched to what we used to call the Donahue Method after the former TV host, Phil Donahue.

We would never have been allowed to conduct a classroom style multiple-hour education of the panel regarding legal principles as Bernie did.

Judges instruct on the law, not lawyers.

Voir dire means to question.

During his initial questioning of the panel, he asked each individual juror how long they had lived in Seminole County and Florida, their marital status and children, and what they liked to do with their spare time.

Then he used the Donahue Method to question the panel of 40 as a group on the following subjects:

1. Knowledge of the defendant, lawyers, court personnel and witnesses to be called;

2. Familiarity with TV programs about forensics, cops and the law;

3. Difference between direct and circumstantial evidence;

4. Whether anyone was arrested and prosecuted for a crime;

5. Victims of crime, particularly violent crime;

6. Experience with Neighborhood Watch programs;

7. Whether anyone believes they have the right to take the law into their own hands;

8. Whether anyone believes any person by reason of wealth, education, employment, gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, language or dress should be treated differently under the law;

9. Whether anyone has been a witness before or served on a jury;

10. Member of law enforcement or knows someone who is;

11. Whether anyone has medical experience or knowledge;

12. Owns a gun, has a license to carry concealed, NRA membership;

13. Whether people who own guns have a responsibility to learn how to use them;

14. Whether anyone is a fitness freak or trained fighter or been in a fight;

15. Whether anyone has special knowledge or training in cell phones, phonetics, linguistics, or DNA testing; and

16. Whether anyone would not be able to look at gruesome photographs for their evidentiary value.

No one was excused today although I believe 2 PJs should be excluded for financial and familial hardship, especially since the trial is expected to last 2-4 weeks and the jury will be sequestered. Both are Hispanic.

B-29 is a married mother with 8 children at home. The oldest is 22. She works as a CNA. She is juror #2 in the box and would be replaced by B-51, a retired white female from Oviedo with a dog and 20-year-old cat. Knows a good deal about the case, but said “I’m not rigid in my thinking.” She moved to Florida from Atlanta and was the Director of a call center for 1,200 employees.

P-67 is an auto mechanic whose job might not be there after the trial. He is 22nd on the list of 40.

The defense will voir dire tomorrow starting at 9 am EDT.

If the defense has not completed questioning the PJs by 2 pm, Judge Nelson will excuse them for the day in order to resume and complete at least the evidentiary portion of the Frye hearing. The prosecution will be presenting one rebuttal witness, Tom Owen.

I doubt she will be ready to issue her decision at the conclusion of the hearing, so look for it early next week, probably Monday.

I will see you all tomorrow morning at 9 am EDT.

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143 Responses to Zimmerman: Day 8 Liveblogging Jury Selection Completed

  1. Jun says:

    I have been watching a lot of crime TV lately, and in all honesty, what Omara and Team Fogen are doing, is fairly pretty much clockwork, only major difference, is Omara has molested the media the most and smeared the victim the most, which i feel he holds the titles for

    I could also be incorrect but I believe Scott Peterson is the first defendant to use the internet to try his case and also appeals right now, and proclaim innocence

    • Rachael says:

      I would have no problem with him using the Internet to proclaim innocence what upsets me is using the internet to promote hatred

  2. trina cosbie says:

    Hi, fellow Trayvon supporters. I haven’t been commenting in awhile due to my mom having a medical emergency that has caused her to have some paralysis. She is in ICU, but getting stronger everyday. I just want you all to know I still have been keeping up with the fight for Trayvon’s justice. Thank you Professor for this site & breaking all the law mumbo jumbo down, keeping everyone current & knowledgeable during J4TM!! Big thank you to all who post here as well!!

    • Rachael says:

      I’m glad your mom is getting stronger every day. I’ll be thinking of you.

    • Best wishes to you and your mom. Hope she makes a speedy recovery.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I am so sorry to hear about your mother, trina. I hope she recovers quickly.

      I am sending you a big hug! Be sure to get a lot of rest when you can…..I know how emotionally draining your grief can be to see your mom in this condition at the same time as doing all you can to help her.

    • Xena says:

      @trina cosbie. Sorry to hear about your mom. Here’s sending her positive thoughts for the best.

  3. fauxmccoy says:

    ok — potential juror spreadsheet complete, to the best of my ability for the day. please have a look, share your input. this was compiled using the list of potential juror info we started with this morning combined with today’s voir dire.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnQ_Iq4ss_C0dHdEOWxYa2RzcWt1ZkI5b2tuaGpvUXc&usp=sharing

    now, as an anthropologist, i shall sit back, review and draw whatever conclusions i can. will share when i’ve rested up a bit.

    fred, next month, i’m gonna be hitting you up for donations, this was work! 😉

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Fascinating. Thanks, Fauxie.

    • Yorazigo says:

      Thanks VERY much for all this work! My background makes me appreciate what you did!

    • LeaNder says:

      fauxy, sorry about your accident, I hope you are fine.

      Good work, but I had the impression that B7 only was one time on the jury. It was 12 or 15 years ago. It was a criminal case and he wasn’t the foreman. I like that guy’s voice. My notations also read: 10 years married, and 11 years in his current position with a change ahead. He will be a supervisor, supervising two or three people. I think he will be among the people that will try to get out, since he didn’t know about the sequestration. In all of this, I may be wrong and you may be right.

      Now I’ll take a look at the rest.

      Very, very helpful. Thanks a lot. 😉

      • fauxmccoy says:

        leander – thanks for providing your additions/corrections. i will get them incorporated throughout the day.

        • LeaNder says:

          forget it, fauxy.

          But, I hope you do not mind my useless comments. Do I sometimes give the impression, I always have to nag about irrelevant details? If so, will you please forgive me?That’s my not easily recognizable way to express my deepest respect. I cannot help, but you see,ed to ask for contributions somewhere. 😉

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @leander

            i have never gotten any nagging sensation from your posts, have no fear. i do appreciate your input very much, as my hope was to collaborate with others. i probably won’t go back to change that spreadsheet at this point because it is of limited use now. it was kind of fun during the strike process though.

    • LeaNder says:

      B35, m, has a son who is an engineer. I have no notes about his age. But since he worked for 36 years in the same position and holds his current position for six years now, again if my notes are correct, I must assume that his son is older too.

    • Yikes!

      Superfine effort.

      Will feature.

      Muchisimas gracias

      Fred

    • LeaNder says:

      Fauxy, I am not completely sure. Besides I have a huge mess of notes.

      But it feels to me that G81 owns whatever type of business. He is the black “Fox channel addict”. (Which considering Eric Deggans book, race baiter I find odd.) Not that this matters in this context. But you put teacher into a bracket, so it feels you were not sure about that. I didn’t make notes at that point, since his voice like some others brought back memories from his earlier answers.

      • LeaNder says:

        Forget it, I am wrong. I missed the number at that point and must have mixed it up. I’ll check again.

    • LeaNder says:

      fauxy, you have a question mark concerning H81, m.

      his age is indeed puzzling. But here comes Pipitone concerning his age:

      H-81 is a 40-something male, dark complexion, maybe black or mixed race. Recalls “tragic situation,” not impressed with TV “talking heads.”

      Now add to that, that we both noted 31 years married. I noted 25 years concerning the age of his son. Take that with a grain of salt, it may well be the daughter. I have another 25, connected to this job, he seems to be some type of supervisor for that time.

      I would assume that maybe his age is not so simple to guess, but he hardly married with 9 years.

      I have the vague memory that his daughter was the older, and she is in CA, but I may be mixing things up.

  4. I have been wanting to ask this question, I know I have brought up HLN several times, but one of the reporters at the trial has said more once that Zimmerman’s re-enactment tape is hersay and won’t be shown to the jury is that true?

    • Shari says:

      Don’t watch HLN. Just my advice.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Mr. L addressed that in a recent thread. He said it is admissable and gave us the details. I don’t have a great memory so I won’t try to elaborate. Maybe somebody else with a better legal head will come along and tell you.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      The prosecution can show it or parts of it. The defense can only use the parts that were introduced by the prosecution unless GZ takes the stand.

      I don’t think the prosecution will use much of GZ’s statements in their case. They will use whatever is necessary in cross examination and rebuttal.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Admission By Party Opponent Rulë:

      All of GZ’s (oral, written, electronic, etc.) statements are admissible under the “Admission By Party-opponent Rule”. This means that only the Prosecution may introduce (all or some parts of) those statements – and NOT the defense.

      Rule Of Completeness:

      If the Prosecution introduces e.g. just ‘half of a statement’ made by GZ, the defense may be allowed to introduce the remaining half that statement under the Rule of Completeness (to prevent statement in question from being taken out of context).

      The HNL “expert” might have misspoken (as all of us do now and then) or is flat-out a dunce.

    • Jun says:

      Yes it is hearsay, and is unnecessary to show to the jury

      However the state can introduce any of the statements via the admission by party opponent rule baring completeness

      Omara will try to molest that rule though and you can bet to hear a lot of objections granted

      But I say it is unnecessary to introduce his statements for the murder trial

      According to Florida Criminal Statutes for Affirmative Defenses, the defense must present evidence supporting their claim, otherwise the defense is not weighed by the jury or judge

      But there is not much needed to show that Fogen did it LOL

  5. Nef05 says:

    I’m going to guess all of you that watched HLN saw Politan open his magic evidence box and play W6’s statement about MMA blows being thrown down on fogen, without bothering to mention all that BS was retracted… (sigh)

    • Leisa says:

      I left a comment that he was doing so well up until that tape. I did give them the update on that witness’s story but I just tuned in to see Mr. Martin and we had what, 2 minutes of his interview mixed in with all of the other stuff. I took it for being all about the interview.

  6. Shari says:

    I don’t watch cable news anymore. I have my local paper and the internet for news. After tuning in to HLN to watch Tracy Martin I understand why GZ has supporters. People depend on the media for news, if they have been watching Vinnie and his ridiculous mock jury and his inacurate re-enactment they are highly misinformed. How many people are going to search the internet to investigate the murder?

    I have no idea how Sybrina is holding up. I wonder if she is watching? I’m sure she is. It hurts me so I know it hurts her. It must feel like she is re living her child’s brutal murder every day, especially when his lasts screams are played on TV for ratings. And I don’t see how ANYONE who listens to those screams then a gunshot can believe that GZ’s head was being bashed in.

    Hurry up trial, so BDLR can get started…

    • Leisa says:

      I agree. I saw a small clip of ms. Fulton giving a statement and it had to have been 2 weeks or so after she lost her baby and nothing has ever reached in and grabbed my heart like this did. I could feel her pain. This jury will see this for what it was and Fogen will never have another opportunity to hurt another mother’s child.

  7. Xena says:

    Been gone all day and have lots of catching up to do. I suppose that there was no Frye hearing today?

    • Sleuth says:

      Hi Xena, Welcome Back!

      I think the Frye hearing is scheduled for 2:00 pm EST tomorrow.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Starts tomorrow at 2.

      I was wondering – between Fogen’s sister and his big friend (some people are calling him a bodyguard, but he’s one of three friends pictured on Fogen’s old MySpace page, I believe) there is a white guy that’s very rarely visible because Bernie stands in front of him. Is that Fogen’s brother-in-law that they referred to as Ken in the jailhouse calls?

      • Xena says:

        @Two sides. Watching a video posted by Trent now. The order I see starting from ShelLIE is an older woman, Papa Zim, Mama Zim, sister Zim, and GZ’s homie from his MySpace page.

  8. Sleuth says:

    You know, I was just thinking about the fact that it was a little over a year ago when that company made and sold shooting targets with the hoodie and skittles depicting Trayvon’s image. I think the company was out of Virginia but the product was being sold in Florida.

    (I’m paraphrasing here) – I remember O’Dirty reacting as though he was highly shocked and offended. He said it was disgusting and the lowest form of civility he had ever seen. He also said that it did not help his clients case one bit, in fact it could make matters worse for him.

    He even went so far as to say if he ever found out the name of the person (s) behind it he would personally file a legal action against them.

    And now, a year later, he’s doing the very thing to Trayvon that he found so disgusting a year earlier.

    I really don’t who’s worse, him or his client. (smdh)

  9. Mary Davis says:

    @ lady. I cannot stand to even watch Robbie the Racist. When he comes on I turn the tv completely off. The same goes for pappa. This family is just sickening.

    I don’t even watch HLN anymore. One reason is because HLN showed such compassion for Travis’s family when he was murdered, (they are still saying what this poor family has to endure, so much so that one would think they had a dog in the fight), but no compassion at all for the Martin family. How biased is that.

  10. heartofhearts says:

    When GZ smiles at the jurors it drives me mad.

  11. ladystclaire says:

    I didn’t know that, Robbie the Racist stood before the media and, said that Trayvon was a TRAINED EXPERIENCED FIGHTER. the lengths this IMBECILE goes to is downright sickening. whats even more sickening is the fact that these people take this SOB seriously.

    This guy is one who needs a punch in the nose for real. hopefully his brother will be convicted for his crime and, I wonder what the hell he is going to do post trial. do you all think he will crawl back under his rock?

  12. Shari says:

    Okay who told me to watch HLN? That juror question was disgusting. I can’t wait for this trial to BEGIN…I am sick of the games the media is playing. This is not funny!!

    I’m turning back to Sherlock Holmes…

    • Did you catch the host of HLN after dark misrepresenting the evident of this case? He said Trayvon ran two times.

    • ladystclaire says:

      I agree Shari and IMO, HLN is no better than Fox. the way they have done things since this trial has come upon us, is downright despicable and, they are getting worse everyday. I use to like Vinnie but, not any more. as for Ryan Smith, I don’t care for him at all either.

      At times this guy shows signs of leaning towards the defense but, I guess he is afraid of not having a job so, he goes the way of those who butters his bread. this network will not give the attorney for Jordan Davis any face time but, they can’t get enough of Robbie the Racist and his lies. I will get my coverage of this trial from MSNBC and, maybe if a lot of people tune away from HLN and Faux, that will be a boost for MSNBC.

      • Shari says:

        I’m going to do my own racial profiling here and say that as an East coast Italian I think Vinnie may be racist. I suspected he was a Zidiot early on in the case, Nancy Grace was questionable as well.

        Yes I could be wrong…

      • Leisa says:

        Sorry for bringing it up folks. Had no idea. I caught a few minutes here and there and I guess I caught it when they were siding with the State. I have never been able to take Nancy Grace.
        Sorry again, I am still learning and appreciate you all setting me straight on HLN. 🙂

    • Two sides to a story says:

      HLN plays both ends against the middle for ratings.

  13. kllypyn says:

    why are they so quick to put these dirt bags on their show?

  14. ladystclaire says:

    These people have outright made this out to be about the Zimmerman family, when Trayvon’s family is the ones who lost their son/brother that night. I don’t give a fat rat’s ass about that dysfunctional lying family of Zimmerman’s.

  15. Leisa says:

    Ugh! Turned to HLN channel just a bit too soon. Caught end of Dr Drew saying he will have Jr on his show tomorrow night.

  16. Two sides to a story says:

    Here’s a lovely relaxing mantra / video for all bodhisattvas / mother sentient beings getting ready for court tomorrow.

  17. Leisa says:

    Almost time, 10pm. HLN has Tracy Martin tonight and tomorrow night on After Dark. For anyone who missed it.

  18. Jun says:

    I have been having fun thinking of different phrases to use for the opening statements word ban, which I doubt will be granted

    Check this

    “The defendant, George Zimmerman, targeted and stalked an African American 17 year old teenager, and generalized and stereotyped the teenage boy a criminal and suspicious, for walking down a street he lived.”

    That’s for profiled LOL

    “The defendant, George Zimmerman, aggressively accosted the boy and would not let the kid go. The defendant than battered the boy and attempted to apprehend him and made a credible threat to the young teenage minor’s safety.|

    That’s for confronted LOL

  19. Leisa says:

    ay2z- that was great!

  20. whonoze says:

    I may be the only person here waiting eagerly for the resumption of the Frye hearing (Don West drone fatigue notwithstanding). I’m wondering how Tom Owen will attempt to rehabilitate himself, and whether he’ll have anything new to bring to the table. I also wonder, from a legal strategy standpoint, whether the State really wants to get their experts in, or is just going through the motions to burn up energy from the Defense.

    Here’s are two issues I’m going to look for in particular.

    One might condense the Defense experts’ central critique of Owen as, ‘It is impossible, by any method known to our science, to make a valid speech identification comparison, for inclusion or exclusion, between shouts or screams on one hand, and “normal” speech on the other.” One question neither West NOR Manthei asked the Defense experts: ‘Would it be valid to compare screams or shouts recorded from a distance via a cell phone with known exemplars of screams and shouts also recorded from a distance over a cell phone?”

    This question is pertinent because the State possesses exactly such an exemplar from George Zimmerman. When Owen did his initial workup for The Sentinal, he did not have this recording because it had not yet been released in the discovery documents. But, if the State really wants him to do an analysis for trial, you’d certainly think he has a copy now.

    Certainly both Manthei and West are aware of this recording, which is why it’s interesting neither of them posed a hypothetical that would cover it to the Defense experts. Had West asked them the question i posed above, they surely would have said, “No. 1) There isn’t enough screaming on the 911 call to form an adequate sample for analysis; 2) Of the screams that can be isolated, we cannot be sure they all came from the same person; 3) The lack of fidelity of both recordings introduces too high an error rate.” But West DIDN’T ask them about comparing shouting to shouting.

    Thus, when the Frye hearing resumes, there’s a chance Manthei can ask Owen, ‘Dr.s Nakasone, French et. al. have argued that science cannot make a valid comparison between shouting and regular speech, how do you respond?’ And Owen could possibly reply, ‘Actually, I’ve now been given an exemplar of Mr. Zimmerman shouting, re-run my analysis using that, and the results affirm [or possibly strengthen] my original conclusion.’

    Of course, the State now also possesses a voice exemplar of Trayvon Martin. An while he is not exactly shouting or screaming in this exemplar, it’s not normal telephone speech either. He’s calling out rather emphatically “We need a behind-the-scenes!”

    The other question neither West nor Manthei asked the Defense experts is “Given that Mr. Owen’s method might be suspect in matching or excluding two differing samples of speech allegedly from the same person, might it still be of utility in determining which is the most likely speaker out of a universe of two, given voice exemplars of each, even if the exemplars involved are less than ideal?”

    Or in more plain language, ‘If I just give you the 911 call screams and George talking, maybe you can’t tell me whether the screams are definitely George or definitely not George, but if I give you, but if I give you the screams, George AND Trayvon, you can tell me which one of the two men’s speech the screams most resemble, and how much of a difference the software found between the two?’

    Again, if Owen and the State have done their due diligence since Owen last appeared, Owen should be able to give a good answer to a question like that. If Manthei doesn’t ask something like that, nor Owen offer it, I’ll conclude that he and the State aren’t really making a serious effort to get his testimony included at trial.

    I don’t know if Don West gets a chance to bring his witnesses back in to rebut the State’s rebuttal, but if he’s stuck crossing Owen by himself (I mean, the Frye hearing can’t go on FOREVER, can it?), and Owen brings in any new results along the lines I’ve mentioned, I don’t think West knows enough about this stuff to undermine him effectively

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t really think they can undermine Owen; all they can do is say that THEIR guys could not conclude what HE says he can conclude. Since the things Owen concluded are not inconsistent with the things other prosecution experts are saying and since the methods used by the other prosecution experts have not been challenged per se in the Frye hearing (although that is the sole purpose of the Frye Hearing), I don’t see what the defense hoped to accomplish except confusion and a certain degree of publicity to make potential jurors suspect any kind of expertise that the prosecution might have.

      See, all the defense has is lies.

      If they keep shouting “prosecution lies prosecution lies” they think they can overcome that.

      All the defense has is an impossible proffer (something that can be shown to be untrue because it is impossible). So their screams of “prosecution’s case is impossible; prosecution’s case is impossible,” they think they can overcome that.

      Their problem is that all they have, even after all that projection (“victim is thug; victim attacked; defendant was under threat of death; prosecution has no case; prosecution lies; prosecution’s case is ipso facto impossible”) is a mirage. It will melt away as it is approached more closely. Shimmer shimmer shimmy vanish.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO

        All the defense has done is have people flown in that say

        “The methods are proper and accepted by the scientific community. The sample I do not feel is good enough and I did not bother trying to test it to figure out an answer. Omara you owe me $10,000.”

        That’s because they know they can’t reasonably say it was Fogen because it truly does sound like a teenage boy screaming for help

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @whonoze

      oh, i too am looking forward to the frye hearing … that is the best sleep i’ll ever have. i’m glad i’ve got you to keep on top of this one for me, because yawn west is a snoozefest.

      yes, i think we should start calling him ‘yawn west’.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I hope you are alright and feeling better. this HLN BS is beginning to be a sleeper as well. also, they keep giving Robbie the Racist a platform to spew his lies as well as take digs against family of Trayvon. I’m sick of seeing his mug, even sitting in the courtroom.

        They sure don’t listen when asked not to do something. Robbie was told to stay out of Fat Boys case by his father. Thugboat was told “we don’t need you to do that” by the NEN operator and, yet he did so any way.

    • This is the critical question.

      There is a huge difference between attempting to determine which one of two possible voices is more likely to be the source of an unknown voice or scream on a recording and comparing the unknown voice to a large collection of voice exemplars from known individuals in an effort to find a match and identify the source of the unknown voice or scream to a high degree of probability. The defense experts are trying to figure out how to do the latter and express the probability of the match mathematically.

      That is not required in the defendant’s case and there is other circumstantial evidence that independently confirms Owen’s conclusion.

      • Trained Observer says:

        When jurors hear that apalling death shriek that so abruptly stopped after the gun was fired, I doubt they’ll be entertaining defense notions of mathematical probability.

        They’ll know the kid is dead, and they’ll know why.

      • Jun says:

        I think the simplest way to tell it’s Trayvon is

        1) Screams sound like a kid

        2) A voice that sounds like Fogen, is heard threatening Trayvon

        3) Trayvon is a kid

        4) Defendant said it does not sound like him

        5) Screams abruptly end at the gunshot

        Not really difficult to ascertain but hey, I am considered part of the jewish and black conspiracy because I am black myself like the Conservative Treefrog says

    • Dave says:

      Tom Owen is the most listenable of the experts we’ve heard. Whatever the merits of his methodology and his conclusions, he is the one most likely to get his point across to the juy in a way that they can understand.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Oh, I can hardly wait for the rest of the Frye hearing and when the jury decides Trayvon was the screamer. Boom.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      In my opinion your last question is the most important one.
      I’ve been screaming at my screen to get Mantei to ask that question.

      Whether Owen should be qualified as an expert, should not depend on his credentials as an audiologist, but whether he is qualified to use the recognition software and to interpret the data.

      None of the defense’s experts claims they have been working on setting the standards for qualified technicians.

      There is only one defense expert that said something about the software used by Owen, and that was positive.

      What I understand about the software Owen is using is, that it is Russian made and was intended to be used for intelligence purposes.
      It was created to compare voice samples with large amounts of samples from a database. It was scaled down to a comparison database of 100 voice samples, and it has been given a Windows user interface.

      I have no expertise in the area of audio technology, but with the information we got, I didn’t hear anything that would disqualify this system to be used the way Owen did. I see no problem with looping the voice sample other than that it would render a higher number of false positives. The only experts that could give us insight into the limitations of the software, is the manufacturer.

  21. Trained Observer says:

    Tony Soprano — Dead at 51. But he’ll have relatives to watch over Fogen.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Oh, that’s sad. I didn’t watch that show, I know, 20 lashes, but I thought he was a fine actor. RIP, Jimmy.

  22. Do we have a scorecard on who the defense will need to use a strike on? I would say that the EMT would get a defense strike. He would be sure to convince the other jurors that the story about how Mr. Zimmerman got his injuries is pure bunkum.

    • disappointed says:

      E.N.T., Arm wrestler and anyone with a quarter of a brain cell they will need to strike.
      I thoroughly enjoyed watching BDLR today. He is very easy to follow and he made it enjoyable and relaxing I believe for the PJs.

    • ay2z says:

      seems they SHOULD want the EMT…. if story were believable and supportable…. not laughable

    • Dave says:

      The exsoldier and military contractor for similar reasons.

      • ay2z says:

        And the martial arts belt earners, several in the group. Bernie also tested on foreperson for negotiating skills tucked into a question given to several. Brilliant, Bernie set out to educate the jurors and lay a foundation for sound juror knowledge, all the while he was drawing out answers that will map his chess moves and alternate plays.

    • That PJ is G-47. He’s an Assistant Manager of a large busy restaurant in Sanford and currently ranked 24th in the pool of 40.

      Other PJs with medical experience are:

      E-40 (10th)
      B-72 (15th)
      E-28 (18th)
      K-95 (20th)
      H-86 (35th)

      The scorecard was posted in the liveblog article for today.

  23. Ty Flair says:

    Did anyone else catch when BDLR was asking the pjs did they have guns and he was talking to one pj I think it was the NRA member what kind of gun you have and do you keep it in a holster and what kind of holster you have in or out. Remember fogen had a holster on that night and there is know way he could of reach for his gun without it being upside down in his hand after he took it out of his holster. So this pj NRA member would know that fogen story is not true and the rest of the pjs would know his story is not true.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Not so. Fogen had a reversible holster and the gun doesn’t ride upside down or backwards. That’s a myth circulated early on before it was known what type of holster he had.

    • Jun says:

      I love guns myself so I do not necessarily think a gun nut would support Fogen. I personally think he’s a coward for picking on a kid.

    • Not so, It was reversible.

      Nevertheless, he still couldn’t draw it while lying on his back.

      • Malisha says:

        while lying on his back being pummeled, strangled, smothered, bashed crashed and trashed? How come not? After all he wasn’t doing anything ELSE with his hands was he?

      • heartofhearts says:

        @Malisha, That is an excellent point where were GZ’s hands while he was “being beaten to death.” Shouldn’t they of been bruised and scratch up from trying to protect his face and head? Shouldn’t there of been DNA of Trayvon under his fingernails as he struggled? Remember the picture of his hands at the police station? They looked as if no altercation took place. Hmmmmm

  24. I loved ASA de la Rionda’s question to the PJ’s about taking responsibility for one’s action. That will be one the themes that he weaves through the whole narrative: Mr. Zimmerman killed Mr. Martin and then concocted the whole story of the life and death struggle to not take responsibility for what he had done.

    • willisnewton says:

      That’s the entire story right there : the defendant takes what he did and blamed it on a kid.

      And he is clearly lying about a great deal of it; and what happened in the dark will be shown thru circumstantial evidence to be a continuation of his established pattern of lying.

    • Everything he says and does has a purpose.

      I appreciate a true professional when I see one and he is one.

    • Sleuth says:

      Couldn’t agree more. BDLR certainly gave the defense something to really think about tonight.

    • ay2z says:

      Two simple words and questions now in the juror’s mind. Accountability and responsibility, do you think that people should be responsible and accountable for one’s actions?

      Jurors for this trial have already aswered, ‘yes’.

      Remarkable. Memorable.

  25. fauxmccoy says:

    fred — i am in the process of going over my ‘transcript’. there are of course a few pieces of info missing since i did not have a transcription machine and backspace pedal. i have no plans to search youtube for video to try to catch those items. my hope is that if someone else was taking notes that they can help fill in the blanks.

    when i look at our original lineup with brief descriptions and then add this new information, i see data points. as usual, i am putting them into a spread sheet because that makes more sense to me than growing narratives. i expect this process to take a couple of hours and will post a link here when it is complete.

    i can email you the transcript, as is, assuming my abbreviations will make sense to you. let me know if there is something else i could do for this process that would be helpful. i am of course very open to suggestions on organization of the spreadsheet, but overall, it doesn’t suck.

    your happy servant and faux legal secretary 🙂

  26. Rachael says:

    OMG, I think the outhouse is high on the fumes of the last refuse over there. They think the Hispanic guy is afraid to serve (and perhaps others as well) because of the BGI or whatever they call it, and the Black Panthers and that the prosecution has scared people.

    How can they BE so stupid? Who is the one giving names? Who is the one doxing? Who is the one who has put all this out in the news?

    But you know, I have only had a couple hours of sleep the last day or so, so maybe I just hallucinated that because I really can’t believe ANYONE would be SO SO SO S-T-U-P-I-D!!!

    • Malisha says:

      But I love it that they are all running around chasing these stupid theories and barking up wrong trees and up each others’ — oh well, let’s say barking hysterically at puffs of — well it ain’t roses. I love it. They don’t GET anything and ultimately they are a drag on the defense economy (except for money they may send) and they cannot help the defense do anything useful. So I am glad. Each of them is, in his or her own way, another crackpot Walter Mitty character but the windmills they are tilting at are moving a kind of wind that is frowned upon in public.

      I love it. Stupidity DOES serve some purposes at times.

    • willisnewton says:

      It’s the group-think at talk left that astounds me. I’ve not bothere to concern myself much with what is said and believed over at TCTH site- those people are clearly morons.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        There are many Treepers posting at TL in the Fogen threads. Some under the same names, others under different names.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      OM and the Treepers deserve one another.

    • Jun says:

      LMAO

      What the hell is a BGI?

      Please tell me, because I like a good laugh

      • Rachael says:

        I don’t know if it is “real” or something they made up but Black Grievance Industry

        • cielo62 says:

          Rachael~ TOTALLY bogus. Includes ALL “black” organizations. Maybe even the NBA, according to Papa Zidiot.

          ________________________________

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The Treestumpers wail about BGI every other day. I can’t imagine why Sr. thought this was a good idea to put in his book.

      • SearchingMind says:

        It’s an idea they borrowed for Norman G. Finkelstein’s “Holocaust Industry” and stands for “Black Grievance Industry, hence BGI. The basic concept and terminology of both are the same. Sundance-Cracker is a dunce who can’t even come up with his own original ideas. He borrows and plagiarizes from others and wont acknowledge his source. That’s what thieves do.

      • Jun says:

        ROFL

        HAHAHAHA

        That’s hilarious because it’s so damn stupid LOL

        Let me guess, they say that the Jewish Conglomerates that control all media are behind the BGI

      • Malisha says:

        Of course it’s idiotic: HGI and BGI did actually arise in response to GRIEVANCES! If you don’t want somebody to complain against you, don’t (a) murder 6,000,000 of them or, oh, say (b) let folks who hate them kill their kids and then refuse to prosecute the killers. Duh!

  27. Deborah says:

    Thanks to you Professor for keeping me and the team informed. I am working all day and I have no time to watch during the day, so I count on your blog to keep me up to date. Once again, thanks to everyone!

  28. Rachael says:

    I really didn’t get to see much, but I did get to see where one lady said she worked in loss prevention at one time and it was her job to notify (whomever) if she saw shoplifting. Bernie asked if she had every apprehended anyone herself. I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Hahahahaha!

    • Yeah, and the sound of her voice was stunned disbelief as if to say, “Are you out of your mind?”

      I don’t think she will take much convincing that the defendant should never have confronted TM.

    • willisnewton says:

      I think BDLR did a great job endearing himself to the jury pool today, and more importantly making great points about what normal people do (as opposed to what GZ will be shown to have done) when associated with neighborhood watch and when they have conflict with another individual. He asked the jurors if they had ever settled a conflict with their fists, in so many words and the unspoken understanding was that good people don’t behave that way. These little moments are going to stick with the six/ ten jurors who settle the case. Lets face it, so called normal people don’t drive and then jog after “suspicious persons” who haven’t done anything suspicious. BDLR Is painting the defendant as an outlier, and he’s doing it quite well. It would be scary to face this man across a courtroom if one were an innocent man; to know you are guilty already must be terrifying to the killer in this case.

      • ASA de la Rionda was establishing the “reasonable person” by asking the PJ’s what they would do in a situation. Later, he will be able to contrast that with Mr. Zimmerman’s actions.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @willis — your ability to summarize a 7 hour day in one paragraph is superb. from one struggling writer …. hats off to you!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @willisnewton, not to mention the fact that, he was fearful of this suspicious looking person, before he got his fat ass out of his vehicle to follow this person. Fogen caused every bit of this and, now it’s time for him to pay for what he did to an innocent child.

        People need to realize that, you cannot go around instigating a situation and, then cry self defense in something like this. It’s really something to know that, this man (used very lightly) a support following. as long as it’s not them and theirs, they don’t give a damn.

      • abbyj1 says:

        Willis, Thank you for your insight into BDLR’s ability to work with the jury pool today. Very helpful. And I do loooove that last sentence of yours:

        “It would be scary to face this man [BDLR] across a courtroom if one were an innocent man; to know that you are guilty already must be terrifying to the killer in this case.”

        Oh, do I hope so.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Very telling response from this woman.

      Most people know where to draw the line on job and/or social responsibilities. Not fogen

    • abbyj1 says:

      Really funny, Rachael. Echoes of Fogen himself, ‘eh? Great stuff.

  29. Unabogie says:

    First?

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