Zimmerman: Day 7 of Jury Selection Completed

Tuesday, June 18, 2013

Good afternoon:

We have reached the magic number of 40 prospective jurors (PJ) passed for cause on the issues of hardship and exposure to pretrial publicity.

1. B-12
2. B-29
3. B-76
4. B-7
5. B-35
6. B-37
7. B-51
8. B-86
9. E-6
10. E-40
11. E–54
12. E-73
13. M-75
14. B-61
15. B-72
16. E-22
17. E13
18. E-28
19. K-80
20. K-95
21. P-67
22. G-14
23. G-29
24. G-47
25. G-63
26. G-66
27. G-81
28. H-6
29. H-7
30. H-18
31. H-29
32. H-35
33. H-81
34. H-69
35. H-86
36. I-5
37. I-19
38. I-24
39. I-33
40. I-44

As I have previously described the likely process:

When she gets to 40, she will gather that group together seating the PJs in the jury box, and subsequently the benches, in the order in which they were called and likely instruct them to raise their hands indicating an affirmative answer as she asks a series of questions, pausing to record each PJ’s affirmative answer to each question.

For example, she might ask for a show of hands by each PJ who has been a victim of a crime and write down each PJs number who raises their hand.

After she completes her list of questions, the lawyers, starting with Bernie de la Rionda, will question the first PJ on the list (B12) regarding each question she answered affirmatively. After both lawyers have finished with B12, they will pass or challenge her for cause. If she is excused, she will be replaced in the box by PJ B51 (she is 7th in the order).

This process will be repeated with B51 until she is passed or excused for cause. If she is excused, her seat will be taken by B55. If she is passed, the lawyers will question B29, the PJ in the second seat in the box.

This procedure likely will be followed until 30 PJs have been passed for cause.

Then the lawyers will exercise their peremptory challenges, which is usually done secretly with the lawyers passing back and forth a sheet of paper alternately listing a PJ number until one or both sides exhaust their allotment of peremptory challenges.

If one side accepts the jury of 6 before exhausting their peremptories, they retain the right to use a peremptory challenge to excuse the PJ who replaces a member of the jury struck by their opponent after they accepted the jury.

Judge Nelson announced in court that she intends to begin at 9 am EDT and recess at 3:45 pm EDT, if jury selection has not been completed.

She will reconvene court at 4 pm EDT for the State’s rebuttal case in the Frye Hearing.

The State is going to call one witness: Tom Owen.

Jury selection will resume Thursday morning and continue until completed.

Opening statements will follow jury selection.

I estimate Friday morning for opening statements.

See you in court tomorrow morning at 9 am EDT.

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261 Responses to Zimmerman: Day 7 of Jury Selection Completed

  1. Malisha says:

    “Confronted” being on the “word ban list” is interesting because on the voice-stress test, the only two questions that were asked that could even remotely be germane to the inquiry were:

    “Did you ‘confront’ the guy?”

    and

    “Were you in fear for your life when you shot the guy?”

    Note that in both cases, the voice-stress analyst agrees to call Trayvon Benjamin Martin “the guy” because that is what his KILLER wants to call him. It makes the KILLER more comfortable to call the human being he killed “the guy” than to give him, even in his death, his own name. Serino did not do that. Serino insisted upon calling the victim “Trayvon Benjamin Martin.” And you can hear stress in Fogen’s voice many MANY TIMES during Serino’s interviews.

    But back to “confront”: They do not want that word used? Hmmm. Interesting. If it was perfectly legal for Fogen to “confront” a suspicious guy in the neighborhood, why in the world would they want to ban that word? Remember, also, that FOGEN used the word “confront” when he was interviewed by Serino. Asked why he did not identify himself to Trayvon Martin as a Neighborhood Watch person just checking up on folks in the neighborhood, he answered, “I don’t know; I guess I didn’t want to confront him.”

    So to Fogen, “confront” means something different from what it means to us. To Fogen, “confront” means “answer” or “respond to.” When asked EITHER “Why are you following me for?” or “What’s your phucking problem homie?” or even “What’s your phucking problem [sans ‘homie’]?” Fogen did not answer, “I am the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch in this area and I’m concerned about you wandering about — are you lost?” THAT, in Fogen’s mind, would have been “confronting” Trayvon Benjamin Martin.

    Now IF the judge should happen to “ban” certain words in this trial I think she will open up a huge Constitutional can of worms. It will become the trial lawyers’ nightmare: prior restraint of free speech in the court of law, in a proceeding in which speech carries meaning. You can well imagine that a woman on trial for killing her husband would easily have her lawyer move the court to ban the words “revenge” and “vindictive” and “angry” and “betrayed” and “infuriated.” And the state would move to ban the words “battered” and “pummeled” and “alcoholic rage” and the phrase “repeatedly hospitalized with grievous injuries mercilessly inflicted by her abuser.” We’d have the Lizzie Borden trial over and over and over, in not-so-instant (if the defense counsel were like West) replay, using Victorian speech inhibitors. Rape Trials: “Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, the state will prove that the defendant violated the temple of the complaining witness’s — physical form — against her — uh — [Your Honor may I say “will”?] — personal preferences.”

    Sure, let’s enter a whole new field of trials. Trials for privileged, pathetic, oversensitive defendants. Trials that don’t make our defendants want to go on bulimic binges. Trials where the judges’ job is to make sure the defendants don’t feel uncofortable about what the prosecutors say they have done. Trials that don’t use tough words just because some punka55 mufucka with a psychotic need for dominance and vindication (as a worthwhile person he never was and never will be) profiled, stalked, chased down, and slaughtered a kid with a NAME in cold blood.

    Yeah. Let’s try that.

    • chi1224 says:

      I hear you. I am very relieved to learn this morning that the judge did not yet rule on the ridiculous word ban motion by the defense. I’ve never seen anything like that in a trial, and I can’t imagine the judge ruling in favor of the defense. What’s next O’Mara objecting to the word “murder”? I am so glad the trial is almost underway because I can’t stomach anymore of O’Mara’s grandstanding for the media and his attempts to smear an innocent victim while trying to make the killer look like the victim, it makes me sick!! Thank God the prosecution will soon lay out all the evidence and sleeze ball O’Mara will not be able to stop it! The jury will get to hear all the lies by Zimmerman, the evidence showing he murdered Trayvon, and the screams from Trayvon! Bring it on!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The Judge only banned inflammatory words from being used during jury selection, which is probably the right thing to do, since you don’t want the jury selection process to become a mini trial in itself.

    • Jun says:

      I am gonna copy and paste from Benjamin Crump Page

      …………………

      I heard that Omara proposed a word ban on certain words being used as he claims they are inflammatory. It is alleged the state did not care or object and that Nelson made no ruling on the matter and the jury issue went on. All I could ascertain from media articles (which you can not always count on for truth) was that the defense were against the use of the words “profiled” and “confronted” in opening statements. I do not think it’s a big deal because we have something called a thesaurus. The English language has many beautiful words and sentences that can be formed that mean the same thing but would not use the aforementioned words. I will quote Ronald Jenkinz.

      For in place of the word “profiled”

      “The defendant, George Zimmerman, was driving around his neighborhood and decided to target and stalk a 17 year old African American teenage boy, while wrongfully accusing the teen of being suspicious, a punk, and an asshole who always gets away.

      He in an unrighteous manner labelled the victim, a criminal, and suspicious, and began his stalking and targeting of the teen.

      During this time, he made a phone call to police on the non emergency line, where by he made a lot of angry statements regarding the young boy he was stalking and started degenerating the young boy and insulting him, while creeping out the boy he was stalking.

      This occurred at approximately 7:00pm forward.

      At one point, the young boy, scared of the stranger, the stranger whom is the defendant, because he was stalking and watching him, tried to avoid the situation by running away.

      This angered the defendant, to himself, which he made an expletive remark and showed anger that his victim was running away from him.

      Officer on the phone asked if the defendant was following and pursuing the boy to which the defendant admitted he was.

      The officer of the law, informed him that pursuing and following the boy was unnecessary.

      The defendant disregarded the officer’s orders and continued stalking the boy.”

      Now in place of confronted

      “The defendant, George Zimmerman, when he caught up to the victim, after continually and repeatedly pursuing the boy, aggressively accosted the boy in a menacing and threatening manner.”

      Then after opening statements, the state can use the words again.

      ———————————————–

      I think it is stupid as hell but there’s a thing called a thesaurus, and there are many phrases to use in place of those words, so it’s really no big loss to the state, although I agree it is a constitutional infringement

      However, I heard Omara was only arguing against it for opening statements and Bernie had no objections but Nelson has not formally ruled on it yet

  2. chi1224 says:

    Just to address the above concerning the list of words, here is a video that Xena posted that clears things up…. The Orlando Sent. got it WRONG, the judge did not rule yet!! Many thanks to Xena! It’s right here on video:

    • Malisha says:

      Funny part is that defense counsel used those words in jury selection! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

    • Trained Observer says:

      chi1224 — Thank you for posting!

      • chi1224 says:

        Your very welcome! Xena posted it for me yesterday and I just saw it this morning. Just goes to show you can’t trust the Orlando Sent. I’ve felt for a long time now that they are pro-Fogen.

  3. ic2fools says:

    Test

  4. Jun says:

    Anyone know if the Omara word ban was approved? I heard that they banned “profiled” but do not know if it is true.

    • elcymoo says:

      Yes, JN approved the ban after Bernie de la Rionda agreed to it, but it applies to the opening statements only. The prosecution can easily use synonyms for most of the banned words, and they wouldn’t want to say that GZ got out of his truck after the dispatcher told him not to, because that wasn’t true anyway.

      • Jun says:

        Okay, thats true, I agree. I could easily rewrite the opening statements replacing “profiled” and “confronted” with other phrases and words meaning the same thing… then after opening just use “profiled”: and “confronted” LOL

        And just to be correct, as i did not catch the televisings

        The UK expert that Omara got, basically claimed the sample was not good enough but did not bother testing the sample, am I correct?

        • ic2fools says:

          @Jun

          The UK expert that Omara got, basically claimed the sample was not good enough but did not bother testing the sample, am I correct?

          yes he did say it.

          Omara will more than likely say ‘my client thought he was….’ which is they same as ‘profiled’ jmo

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            While on the other hand, if Bernie has evidence that gz was alerted by others to come check Trayvon out, then “profiled” won’t be needed at all. The “picture” will be made far, far worse.

          • ic2fools says:

            yep lonnie. bernie has the evidence. fogen said in the hannity interview he called an officer, that he walked to the other side the ‘T’ he thought he was to meet that officer. that sure didn’t sound on bit like what defense has laid their foundation why he left his truck to get an address
            bernie has that phone record, btw i believe there will be more video from spd fogen interview thats’ just as damning.

            here’s the snip (thanks llmpapa)

            i missed awhile back regarding defense three confidential witnesses. i read a couple other comments of yours about the guys at the store. those 3 guys from 7-11 may be defense witnesses. we’ll see won’t we….
            jmo

      • Dave says:

        Correct

      • chi1224 says:

        I still don’t understand why Bernie would agree not to use the word “profiled”??? Why?? That is exactly what happened!! The profiling is what set the entire thing in motion!

      • Sleuth says:

        @Jun

        Yep, that’s correct. Dr. Wayman had already been speaking/testifying for almost 3 hours before he revealed that tibit.

      • Jun says:

        Judge did not rule on it yet

        But

        Here is what I copy and pasted from Benjamin Crump Page

        ——————————————————–

        I heard that Omara proposed a word ban on certain words being used as he claims they are inflammatory. It is alleged the state did not care or object and that Nelson made no ruling on the matter and the jury issue went on. All I could ascertain from media articles (which you can not always count on for truth) was that the defense were against the use of the words “profiled” and “confronted” in opening statements. I do not think it’s a big deal because we have something called a thesaurus. The English language has many beautiful words and sentences that can be formed that mean the same thing but would not use the aforementioned words. I will quote Ronald Jenkinz.

        For in place of the word “profiled”

        “The defendant, George Zimmerman, was driving around his neighborhood and decided to target and stalk a 17 year old African American teenage boy, while wrongfully accusing the teen of being suspicious, a punk, and an asshole who always gets away.

        He in an unrighteous manner labelled the victim, a criminal, and suspicious, and began his stalking and targeting of the teen.

        During this time, he made a phone call to police on the non emergency line, where by he made a lot of angry statements regarding the young boy he was stalking and started degenerating the young boy and insulting him, while creeping out the boy he was stalking.

        This occurred at approximately 7:00pm forward.

        At one point, the young boy, scared of the stranger, the stranger whom is the defendant, because he was stalking and watching him, tried to avoid the situation by running away.

        This angered the defendant, to himself, which he made an expletive remark and showed anger that his victim was running away from him.

        Officer on the phone asked if the defendant was following and pursuing the boy to which the defendant admitted he was.

        The officer of the law, informed him that pursuing and following the boy was unnecessary.

        The defendant disregarded the officer’s orders and continued stalking the boy.”

        Now in place of confronted

        “The defendant, George Zimmerman, when he caught up to the victim, after continually and repeatedly pursuing the boy, aggressively accosted the boy in a menacing and threatening manner.”

        Then after opening statements, the state can use the words again.

        ———————————–

        I’d rather use “target and stalk” and then use “wrongfully accuse” and “degenerated”

    • Xena says:

      @Jun.

      Anyone know if the Omara word ban was approved?

      The court issued no order on that motion. Judge Nelson told O’Mara and Bernie to work it out among themselves. In fact, the court’s site doesn’t have it docketed. It was not scheduled for hearing. Judge Nelson said if they could not work it out themselves, that she would hear the motion after jury selection.

      O’Mara argued that the words should not be used during jury selection and Bernie agreed. That’s it — the “inflammatory” words are not to be used during jury selection. If O’Mara and Bernie do not agree on the use of the words during opening statement, then Judge Nelson will more than likely hear the motion IF O’Mara schedules it for hearing.

  5. Sleuth says:

    @LLMPapa

    I knew it! I told several people he looked familiar, but could not remember where I saw him. Actually thought he was the nephew of a friend of ours. Is this guy Puerto Rican?

    He did appear in court on Monday, but I don’t recall seeing him in the gallery on Tuesday. Seems like She-lie left early Tuesday…………..mmmmmmmmmmmm

    Thanks LLMPapa, dang you’re good!

  6. fauxmccoy says:

    regarding jury selection, rather specific juror rejection —

    i’ve seen a number of posts here stating concern and i do share this concern because the jury is what will make or break the state’s opportunity to convict.

    but i also know that there are good, decent people everywhere. the defense may have a high paid consultant, but i do not think for one minute that the state is a babe in the woods. BDLR, Guy, Mantai and i suspect even Corey herself will be making the decisions they know they need to. they know the territory, know the subtleties and not so subtle racist cues that potential jurors put forth. there is still a lot of questioning to be done and rejections to be made for cause. remember the state has some advantages here — the unwanted jurors will be questioned hard and tried to be removed for cause, before they even have to use any peremptory challenges.

    they also have one great advantage — the demographic the defense wants to keep is white, middle aged males (i.e. NOT a protected class). picking off the undesirables for the state will be easier for that fact alone. the defense is not able to just pick off minorities or women without being challenged and judge nelson acting as final arbitrator, as fred has been written of so eloquently. we have seen that hispanics in the pool that have been questioned so far take a low opinion of the killer. although we cannot make assumptions of how blacks and hispanics will vote as to guilt, i’d say those odds are better for the state than white middle age men (thus, the defense).

    we’ve made it this far, it is no time to abandon hope.

  7. LLMPapa says:

    Seems Shellie showed up in court the other day with a mountain sized body guard we hadn’t seen before.

    Or had we?

    Remember Datniggy’s MySpace pics? “servatugughp”, a member of Crime Watchers Forum did!

    How much did O’Mara say was being shelled out for “protection”?

    • ic2fools says:

      Alright you got it Papa! I thought his face looked familiar. I didn’t forgot about DatNiggy myspace, a.k.a. Joe G

      IIRC something was posted or they thought there was a post about there referring to Trayvon.

      Thank you for all your hard work, I check daily and update my knowledge by watching your channel.

      I started realizing RZ,jr had more involvement than he’s letting on.

      Junior nails a tweet

      24 hours a day

      explains why he wants the charges dropped.

      Yep Papa I can say accomplist fact is junior know he can say it too.

      Chances are he’ll be in those bank surviellance videos along with Shellie, if not he wasn’t too darn far…

  8. ay2z says:

    This is the list as copied from the Sanford’s Channel 13. The order was done by date, comments are scant but some physical characteristics besides race (“goatee”)added for some reason..

    Date / PJ number / gender / age / race / cfnews13 comment

    6/10
    B-12
    F
    40s-50s
    White
    1st interviewed, grandmother, lives 10 miles from scene.

    6/10
    B-29
    F
    40s
    Black
    Mother of 7, moved to Fla. from Chicago four months ago.

    6/10
    B-76
    F
    50s-60s
    White
    Seminole resident since 1981, could not ID Trayvon’s mother.

    6/11
    B-7
    M
    40s-50s
    White
    Noticed people taking sides, worried about anonymity after trial.

    6/11
    B-35
    M
    40s-50s
    Black
    Tax preparer, no opinion despite “pro-Trayvon” family/friends.

    6/11
    B-37
    F
    50s
    White
    Animal rescue volunteer, 2 grown daughters, multiple pets.

    6/11
    B-51
    F
    60s-70s
    White
    Retired, shooting “sad on both sides,” no interest in “limelight.”

    6/11
    B-86
    F
    40s-50s
    White
    School administration worker, heard Trayvon was “expelled.”

    6/11
    E-6
    F
    20s-30s
    White
    Warned kids not to give “false impression” about themselves.

    6/11
    E-40
    F
    50s-60s
    White
    Moved to Fla. from Iowa in Nov. 2012.

    6/11
    E-54
    M
    60s-70s
    White
    Son wears hoodies, told him to “be careful, be cautious.”

    6/12
    E-73
    F
    60s
    White
    Can’t “conceive” of being armed, son “lives in a hoodie.”

    6/12
    M-75
    F
    30s
    Black
    Friends split 60-40 for Trayvon, some friends studying law.

    6/12
    B-61
    F
    20s
    White
    Thought Zimmerman’s defense fund website was “unique.”

    6/12
    B-72
    M
    20s
    Mixed-Race
    Arm wrestler, school maintenance technician.

    6/12
    E-22
    F
    50-60
    Black
    Case a “volatile issue,” police “not proactive” enough.

    6/12
    E-13
    F
    20s
    White
    Lives with parents, brother is black.

    6/12
    E-28
    F
    50s-60s
    White
    Hospital O.R. worker (Someone’s cell phone went off.)

    6/13
    K-80
    F
    40s-50s
    White
    Sequestration “biggest fear,” judge announced 2-4 weeks.

    6/13
    K-95
    F
    40s-50s
    White
    Parent/student, “At my age, going to school is hard.”

    6/13
    P-67
    M
    40s-50s
    Hispanic
    Born in Mexico, wants on jury to “give back” to country.

    6/13
    G-14
    F
    40s-50s
    White
    Wants to hear facts, doesn’t want “false assumptions.”

    6/14
    G-29
    F
    30s
    Black
    “I try to stay uninvolved,” reaction to summons: “Not again.”

    6/14
    G-47
    M
    20s
    White
    Restaurant asst. manager, ignores local news, “happy person.”

    6/14
    G-63
    M
    20s
    Mixed-Race
    “Very mixed-race,” talked about “archetypes” like “bro.”

    6/14
    G-66
    F
    50s
    White
    Watches news every day, protests “disruptive.”

    6/14
    G-81
    M
    30s-40s
    Black
    Spoke about violence against African-American males.

    6/14
    H-6
    M
    30s-40s
    White
    Early media coveraged favored Trayvon, now balanced.

    6/17
    H-7
    M
    50s-60s
    White
    “Big brouhaha” in Sanford, media has “anti-gun atmosphere.”

    6/17
    H-18
    M
    30s
    Hispanic
    Self-employed mechanic, doesn’t discuss politics or race.

    6/17
    H-29
    M
    60s
    White
    Shooting negative on city, activists got people stirred up.

    6/17
    H-35
    F
    20s-30s
    White
    Moving at end of the month, has “social anxiety.”

    6/18
    H-81
    M
    50s
    Mixed-Race
    Has 2 civil cases pending before same judge.

    6/18
    H-69
    F
    30s
    Hispanic
    More than 5 months pregnant.

    6/18
    H-86
    F
    20s-30s
    White
    Didn’t follow case, just bought a TV.

    6/18
    I-5
    M
    50s-60s
    Black
    “I don’t see how you get a fair trial” with media coverage.

    6/18
    I-19
    F
    18-20s
    White
    No interest in case, job won’t pay her for jury duty.

    6/18
    I-24
    F
    50s-60s
    White
    Believes “no one is a winner” in this case.

    6/18
    I-33
    M
    50s-60s
    White
    Gray goatee, “just learned how to email.”

    6/18
    I-44
    M
    30s
    Mixed-Race
    “Sports nut,” says “Everyone has an opinion, and they all stink.”

    ———————————————

  9. Mary Davis says:

    Correction. I am not trying to force religion on anyone on this blog.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      I believe & hope that the people here are open minded enough to let you ask for prayers from other people that believe the same or similar to you. That is not forcing religion on anyone.

  10. Mary Davis says:

    Sorry I din’t speell astismistic correctly. My spell check didn’t chech it. Don’t have a dictionary handy.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Mary Davis,

      Dear Mary, you don’t need a dictionary. We can read your heart in your letter. As Cielo counseled, you should look with great hope toward the potential of this jury.

      First, looking at the total of 40, their inclusion on the actual jury will first be addressed by specifics asked in court. Are any traumatized by earlier incidents where they or someone they love were victims of a similar crime? Do they have financial ties to law enforcement, such as working for a company that sells equipment to police? Those are just two examples of a wide range of questions to be asked.

      Therefore you’ll find the list whittled down. The defense and prosecution can each try to remove PJs from the pool based on cause – answers to questions brought up in the voir dire.

      Yes, you had to listen to some disgusting people, but for the most part, the PJs were cautious, The bulk of those called to Jury Duty want to serve the community. Even those inundated by racist rants generated by O’Mara will be surprised and engaged by all the EVIDENCE forcefully presented by Prosecutor de la Rionda.

      When it comes to peremptory challenges, the chess game is played. O’Mara must be gulping. He cannot play the race card – and five of the first 27 jurors are Black and cannot be removed without CAUSE, which will be very, very tough. I do not know if Hispanic jurors get the same protection but there are two, plus a mixed-race juror who likely does not get protection.

      I can see six of the first 27 jurors, that Bernie de la Rionda will likely ask the court to excuse, each time “thanking them for their service.”

      I can see O’Mara wanting to remove eight of the first 27, possibly ten if he can remove the two Hispanic PJs although he would be wise to reserve at least one of his peremptory challenges.

      So … if Bernie removes 6 and O’Mara removes 8 – 10, and five cannot be removed due to race, this accounts for 19-21 of those “27 early PJs” so only six to eight MODERATE jurors remain “in play.”

      Because jurors are seated in order, the concentration will be on the first jurors who successfully passed into the PJ pool, not the last handful remaining. What Bernie, with four unspent peremptories in his pocket will be watching for is NOT spending his challenges if it could advance a rampant racist to the 10 slots for jurors and alternates.

      Judge Nelson wanted 40 candidates in case ten did not survive voir dire, so her court would have ten jurors and alternates if both sides used up their ten peremptories,

      So now I will cheerfully play the race card: you can expect at least three Black jurors (if not five) on the jury/alternate team. The challenge for Bernie will be to retain a semblance of balance, although how could Afro-Peruvian defendant Zimmerman complain about a jury/alternate team that includes five Blacks, two Hispanics, a mixed-race guy and two cheerful Whites? It just could happen …

      What O’Mara will try to do is somehow get one of the rampant racists on the jury, to hang it. But Bernie can block the early racists, leaving a fair cross-section of small-C conservative voters to weight the evidence.

      If a Zimmerman shill is successful in being seated on the jury and hangs it – there’s simply gong to be another trial, And by that time, the “pre-trial publicity” will be ALL THAT EVIDENCE against Zimmerman.

      Remember Mary, the only battle we have to win is the last – and it will be JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!

      Please watch the significant action this week. This voir dire will be the most important chess game in America’s history.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @Pmom

        what a coincidence – i just made a very similar post.

        to add to yours, women and hispanics are also a protected class which means a reasonable cause must be cited in order to use a peremptory challenge and judge nelson makes the final decision.

        this gives the state an enormous advantage with this group of 40.

      • Mary Davis says:

        Thank you PiranhaMom.

  11. Mary Davis says:

    OK everyone. I am very disapointed in how this pj selection is going. It is just too much. All this hatred for AA’s. I have not seen anything like this in my entire life. Really sounds worse than the Emit Till case. These peole have no shame. I was astismistic about about this case in the beginning, but now after seeing such hatred from the pj, imo it’s not looking too good. I do’nt want to force religion on anyone, but I am appealing to the people that believe in God and that believe that God changes things. You see with the JUST US system, I believe that God is our only justice, as I really don’t have faith in our justice system any more. I am not trying to e religion on anyone on this blog, but I do believe that God is our only remendy now. I think that each of us that really believe ( and I don’t mean everyone), only the one’s that truly believe, if we take time out for prayer at the same time each day, I know God hears our heartfelt prayers. This is caled intercessory prayer, We would be intereceiding on behalf of Trayvon and his family. Believe me, It is very powerful.

    • cielo62 says:

      MaryDavis~ Keep your knickers on. The PJ selection isn’t over yet. They need just 6 people willing to listen to the evidence. There are more than that on the current list of 40.  NOW comes the whittling down to get some of them for THE six that will sit in the jury box. Bernie definitely looks like he knows what he’s doing. I’m not in a panic or in despair. Neither should you. Sure, pray. But this wailing is unnecessary. We have the shell casing, the NEN call and the body. ALL we need for justice.

      ________________________________

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ cielo. Thank’s. I do feel better now. I just needed some encouragement. I’m still praying tho.

        • cielo62 says:

          Mary Davis- I am sorry I was so harsh. JP selection was emotionally draining for everybody. But there’s plenty of cause for confidence. And of course, prayer is powerful. But it’s not our only source of ammunition for justice. Together I firmly believe GZ will be behind bars by Mid July.

          FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You walk in beauty.

      I have faith in prayer and good wishes, God or no God . . . justice is in motion, no matter what happens in the trial.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      I’m praying every day for justice to be served, it was hard to see O.J. walk,( although karma seems to have caught up to him), the same feelings about Casey Anthony, it is possible for fogen to get off. That is why we have to emulate Syrbrina & Tracey’s demeanor. We have to remain humble and work hard for justice. “Do your best & let God do the rest.” For believers, this is the Truth, God cannot lie. We have the quiet confidence that He is in control, but He will allow evil it’s day. IMHO

      • Rachael says:

        See that’s the thing. You can’t do what GZ did and walk away. Oh, he may walk away from court, but he will never be able to walk away from what he did. Call it God, call it karma, just call it how things work, but he will never be free from what he has done.

        • cielo62 says:

          Rachael~ but for Justice to work as a social construct, we MUST SEE IT IN ACTION. gz MUST NOT walk. That’s why karma sucks so much; we never get to see it.

          ________________________________

      • Jun says:

        Remember the guy that stabbed a man to death and Florida and claimed self defense and walked?

        He ended up being shot in a drive by shooting

        It’s called Karma

        I know the truth of what happened and I know for a fact that what goes around eventually comes around

        OJ did skate, but then he lost a wrongful death suit and then ended up on trial and in prison anyways

        That’s karma

        Fogen’s fucked a lot of people over, and having his history leaked, Karma is gonna come back hard on him, very soon

        Besides, this is an affirmative defense, which means, Fogen has to present evidence of his claim and convince a judge to get a self defense instruction and then after, convince a jury

  12. Yorazigo says:

    Reported on Orlando WESH 2 News at 11 pm tonite – Counelis (“stealth juror” dismissed) suing O’Mara for releasing his name and embarrassing him publicly. MOM says he won’t apologize because the guy was undermining our justice system. Don’t agree w/what this guy did, but MOM sure is a hypocrite!

    • Malisha says:

      Lawsuits over lawsuits on top of lawsuits giving rise to lawsuits and this time around, I LOVE IT!

      Let them all see that when you casually kill a kid you end up with trouble of all sorts. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! No more freebies, NO MORE FREEBIES!!

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha~ This is what we call “unintended consequences.” Although to be honest I don’t think ex-stealth PJ has a legal leg to stand on…

        ________________________________

      • Malisha says:

        Oh I don’t think he has a cause of action either UNLESS he can prove malice. Hey — malice? Yeah, that’s it: MALICE!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I don’t think anyone had any business releasing his name. I posted his message here when I found it, but purposely did not include his name.

      OM is just playing to his wallets again, a practice that was always borderline unethical. He definitely crossed that line with the release of inadmissable stuff shown out of context as well as flat out lying about the video of the homeless men. His behavior is not only hypocritical, it’s despicable and doesn’t help his client.

    • Xena says:

      @Yorazigo. Some actions are deliberately intended to humiliate. There was nothing preventing O’Mara from asking that PJ if he posted to a Facebook page, asking the court to approach, and having the court show the PJ the print-out without identifying the FB by name and date of the comment.

      I hope E7 has a good attorney.

    • type1juve says:

      O’Mara’s not going to be happy until someone gets hurt or worse behind his bs. I can’t stand to look at his weasel looking ass after all he’s done to sully the name of Trayvon and his family. He had a choice in how he decided to try this case and I hope people never forget that.

      • Rachael says:

        I hear you. I can’t imagine how or why his wife stays with him. there isn’t enough money in the world that could get me to be with that that that thing

    • Yorazigo says:

      When I saw post from Two Sides, I just realized I should not have mentioned his name. It’s just been so much in the news here, I didnt think. I’m so sorry!!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s out now, Yorazigo – I wouldn’t worry about it. But OM was off the wall and the court should have protected him even if they dismissed him, IMO.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        By him, I meant the dismissed PJ, not OM. I do wonder if Judge Nelson will do anything about OM after the trial. Does the state or the prosecution need to file motions for sanctions against OM?

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides.

          Does the state or the prosecution need to file motions for sanctions against OM?

          Seriously doubt it. O’Mara took advantage of Judge Nelson’s lack of knowledge of how social media can be researched without a name. He evidently had her ask E7 specifically about the comment via FB title and date of comment. O’Mara knows or has good reason to know that there are GZ supporters who illegally dox, and he has a reputation for communicating with them.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @yorazigo

        at this point, the proverbial cat is out of the bag regarding E7. he’s making the news rounds on his own behalf. i do not see any harm in you stating his name in your post at this time. you didn’t out him. at the time two sides mentioned the post, it would have been somewhat different.

        i tend to agree with xena – that o’mara and nelson could have done a better job by not mentioning which FB page the comment was made along with the date. that could have been handled much more discretely. nelson’s actions i will assume were naive and without malice, o’mara no longer has any wiggle room in my mind.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Who in the hell has under minded our Justice System, any more than this creep? it seems to me, that a lot of the things O’LIAR has done, are illegal and, it they are not then they should be. looking at this idiot turns my stomach and, the same goes for his murdering lying racist client.

    • Rachael says:

      mo’m is a fine effer to be talking about undermining our justice system.

  13. Trained Observer says:

    Here’s a closing hoot: South Florida’s Channel 4 (CBS) just showed footage of today’s action, accompanied with a little backgrounder including the news that Fogen has “pleaded guilty” to Trayvon martin’s murder. After a shuffle in the background and quick coughing, that got corrected.

  14. Lynn says:

    Can I scream? Watching HLN After Dark (which over the last few weeks has started bringing in more REAL evidence) and I want to smack the former O.J. defense attorney. He is a robot of Junior. Head bashing, BROKEN NOSE…blah,blah,blah. No proof, medical exam, xray. Looks like an idiot and they have him there as an expert to tell us their opinion of the facts. SMH!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ugh. They do this crap for the ratings. Why people suck up on this stuff as real news is beyond me.

      • Xena says:

        @Two sides.

        They do this crap for the ratings.

        Yes, and in order to keep viewers, they add-in drama. During trial, when the State enters evidence that we already know, but HLN has played blind to, they will promote their program as “New Evidence” in order to get viewers to tune-in.

        Among it, what will we hear? Something like; Today the prosecution called the physician’s assistant to the stand who testified there is no proof that the defendant’s nose was broken.”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        *sigh*

  15. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    This is off topic. However, I thought I’d share something that happened to my oldest grandson a couple of weeks ago. He had just got off the bus to go to work and had on his work uniform. The bus stop is at the corner from his job. A policeman said hi to him, he said hi back, and then the police stopped him. They asked him where he was going. He told them he was on his way to work and pointed to his uniform that he had on. The police told him that there had just been a robbery and he fit the description. They handcuffed him and had him sit on the curb.

    My grandson told me that he watches cops, so he remained silent and just did what they told him to do because he knew that he hadn’t did anything wrong. He said that one of his customers passed and mouthed to him what’s going on. My grandson said that he hunched his shoulders that he didn’t know. They had a woman to come to ID him and evidently she told them that my grandson was not the robber because they let him go. No apology was given.

    The real robber was hiding in one of the stores and the police did catch him a few minutes later. My grandson said that he knows that the police were just doing their job, but he felt insulted when he saw what the real robber looked like because he was three shades darker than him. My grandson is the color of caramel candy. The robber was the color of a dark chocolate Hersey bar. It reminded me of that “We all look alike” b.s.

    My grandson does not look like a thug or dress like one. He does not wear his pants sagging beneath his behind. In fact, he is somewhat a nerd and his friends are too. 🙂 He and his friends are into scientific stuff and computers. Fun to them is computer animation, movies, and designing video games. When he was five years old, he told me that the polar bears were becoming an endangered species, taught me how to use the Internet, and that he was designing a time portal, which I am convinced that he just might do that after he showed me the picture of his time portal. It wasn’t your average five year-old scribble.

    My grandson has never ever been in trouble a day in his life in school or at home. He is not that type of kid. When I am teasing him, I call him my Steve Urkel. He is highly intellectual, very articulate, well-behaved and mannered. When he attended school, he was in that gate program for gifted children. My grandson was raised and lives in a two parent home in a quiet middle-class neighborhood.

    That let me know that no black male is safe walking the streets from being profiled. I worry about him because he sometimes works a night shift. He catches the bus and walks home. Like Martin Luther King, I too have a dream that one day a black male will be able to walk the streets as freely as anyone else in America without the police or someone assuming that all of them are thugs or up to no good because in reality all black males are not thugs or up to no good. True we have our share of bad seeds and those of a criminal element, but we also have a good majority that are decent people, law abiding citizens, and work for a living.

    Trayvon had a future, but it was stolen away from him by Zimmerman.

    • concernedczen says:

      That story makes me very sad. What black boys and men still have to go through in this country is shameful and maddening.

    • Yorazigo says:

      Granny,
      I’m so sorry your gs had to go through this humiliation. I have several black male friends who have been “traffic” stopped for no reason except skin color — all very good, hardworking guys. It’s so unjust and infuriating!

    • Tzar says:

      Thank you for sharing that story
      I have no words right now

    • Shari says:

      http://avoiceforneli.com/

      This is the story of a black teenager with high functioning autism. A call was made about a suspicious black man and the teen ended up jailed. This story is old I think he is out of jail now.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’m so sorry. That’s just dreadful and uncalled for. I hate the way the police never apologize. Thank goodness your grandson’s ordeal didn’t last for hours.

    • Hi Granny! It’s so nice to see you. I’m so sorry for what happened to your grandson. It makes me furious we have to live in fear of either being harassed by the police or shot dead for walking or driving while black. It never ends. So dm tired.

    • GirlP says:

      This has to stop, he did not fit the description there was no reason to stop him.

  16. Sleuth says:

    Professsor,

    Are you still up?

    I have a few questions about evidence.

    You may have already written about this, if so I apologize. I did go through the archives but didn’t come across anything that pertained to my particular questions. Perhaps I missed it.

    During the juror selection phase, or at any phase, can private citizens submit evidence for the case? If so, under what conditions, and how is it handled?

    Also, have the information from Trayvon’s cell phone, the inadmissible evidence O’Dirty dropped, been authenticated/verified as true?

    Reason I ask the 2nd question is because the text messages seem odd to me, i. e. using full words as opposed to using the abbreviated forms of words which is so popular among teenagers.

    Thanks.

    • bettykath says:

      iirc, JN ruled the content from Trayvon’s cell phone to be inadmissible due to relevance. She might reconsider during the trial but they would have to authenticated. They were not authenticated at the time the motion was considered, e.g. MOM was spouting that a video was of Trayvon’s friends beating on a homeless man when it was really two men arguing over a bicycle. It’s not likely that any of that will be allowed.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        I believe that the text messages are a bunch of bull myself. When MOM put that lie out there that Trayvon’s friends were on a video beating up a homeless man that made me believe that MOM will try any and every dirty trick in the book to get Zimmerman off the hook. Therefore, I doubt seriously if those text messages are real and the only thing that MOM has convinced me of is that he is a lowdown, unscrupulous liar just like Zimmerman.

        The thing about that lie that MOM told regarding the video is that although it won’t be allowed, it has caused the damage he was hoping to cause. I hope that they do let the video in to prove how big a liar MOM is, but I know that’s wishful thinking. If the media wanted to be fair, they would play the video a full day to show how big a liar MOM is, but we know that won’t happen either especially on Rupert Murdock’s Fox We Make It Up News and where he sits on the Board of Directors at CNN news station. Fox and CNN make it bad for those in the media that want to do the right thing.

        @Sleuth, you have a point there regarding abbr forms because most young people I know use that format, none of them text whole word sentences.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The text messages are culled from real phone records, but OM edited some out to make what was left look worse than they are. In other words, he placed them out of context to entire sequences.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Two sides to the story,

        Well, MOM did that it just goes to show you how low MOM will stoop. Smh! I’m really beginning to have a trashy opinion of MOM.

        • cielo62 says:

          Granny~ Just now? I’ve had a trashy opinion of him when he first started to call Trayvon a thug, dragging out his school records and refusing to drop the MMA story even though that witness recanted that testimony. He’s a snake. Strike that: snakes have better character!

          ________________________________

      • Sleuth says:

        @bettykath

        Thanks, so they’ve not been authenticated….that’s very interesting.

    • aussie says:

      Anyone with evidence is supposed to give it to whichever side they think their evidence is good for….. to the prosecution or defence. The court itself doesn’t accept evidence.

      • Sleuth says:

        @aussie

        Right, but do you know if there’s a deadline for doing so?

      • aussie says:

        Deadline?? don’t think so. There have been cases where witnesses turned up after the case started, that being the first they heard of it. Usually happens in cases against some doctor for negligence or for regularly assaulting patients: when he gets charged others recognise him “hey that’s the b…d. that assaulted me” and they add to the complaint. Also usually they have to have a break in the case for everyone to digest the new information.

        But in this case? if someone saw what happened and hasn’t been game to come forward yet, I am sure they won’t mind them turning up after it’s started. But to the lawyers, not just walk in the court room and start talking, that only happens in the (bad) movies.

      • Sleuth says:

        @aussie

        You get 5 gold stars! 🙂

        Thanks for helping to clear up some misinformation I heard.

        YOU SAID: “There have been cases where witnesses turned up after the case started, that being the first they heard of it.”

        That was I thought, i.e. The Penn State trial where the coach’s adopted son came at the last minute to testify against his adopted father.

        IIRC, the defense was caught off guard.

  17. Yorazigo says:

    A cute video for relaxation & enjoyment for those stressed from jury selection

    Hope the link works

  18. Xena says:

    Michael Skolnick is on HLN with Dr. Drew. It’s now 8:50 p.m. CST.

  19. One thing about the general group as a whole today was their mistrust/lack of respect for the media. With few exceptions, they at least take it with a grain of salt. One person disallows TV news, I think, in the home.

    Makes me wonder if the media people are going, “Wow. It’s amazing how low we’ve really sunk.”

  20. disappointed says:

    We know Fogen followed in car and then jumps out and chases after Trayvon ran from him. We know per DeeDee’s call with Trayvon that Fogen continued to follow because the MINOR child asked why are you following me?
    From EMT’s report we know Fogen’s vitals were all good moments after he shot and killed a MINOR child. We know he refused to go to the hospital 2 times. We know from medical records that he never had a confirmed broken nose.
    I do not need a guilty verdict to come back to know that Fogen murdered Trayvon. IF there was 1 piece of evidence to suggest Fogen had a broken nose we all know MOM would have released it. If Fogen had ANYTHING to show his innocence we would have seen it. It’s obvious MOM can release whatever the hell he wants, so they have nothing.
    Fogen, his wife and family are the lowest of low. Fogen because he said late teens, his wife because she lied for a child killer and his family because they defend him. They could support him by sitting quietly and keeping their mouths shut but instead they slander this dead child and lie for him. WHO DOES THAT?
    As far as Trayvon being a thug, I could careless if he robbed the Easter Bunny and sled jacked Santa Claus, Fogen did not know HIM. So what ever happened prior to 7pm that evening it is no ones business. jmo

    • whonoze says:

      The Wagner photo, which I continue to believe is falsified, will surely be introduced by the defense, and it appears to show serious trauma to the Zimmerschnoz. This pic is a major backbone of Fogenite “argument” about the case.

      • disappointed says:

        I agree, but anyone with half a brain will wonder how that snout healed so quickly because the photos at the police station look nothing like that. If I were the prosecutor I would show it first and follow it up with the photos from the police station. Common sense should prevail because then you have videos of him the next day and the following and again his snout looks fine. Well except for that stupid stupid stupid knuckle band-aid.

      • disappointed says:

        speaking of the altered photo, I thought someone had found it to be altered? Maybe I have lost my mind. Thought I read it here a long time ago when I lurked. Some link that showed where is had been to photo shop? Maybe? I forget who found it but I thought she worked for an Attorney out west.

      • cielo62 says:

        Whonoze- and any medical person can explain how trivial the whole thing is. Bam!

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

      • Tzar says:

        The state is sure to have a doc or two to refute that but isn’t there a chain of custody issue?

      • Lynn says:

        MOM can show it all he wants, as long as he explains how wet grass didn’t smear it and how blood runs uphill. Bernie can then show an overlay of the police photo with Z’s keltec matching those red lines. Just how did the neighbor describe his walking around with his hand to his forehead? In the dark that could have been a hand to the back of the head…smacking himself with his gun!

      • Tzar says:

        Lynn, my thoughts exactly

      • ladystclaire says:

        @disappointed, he actually looked like a damn idiot, with that knuckle band aid on his nose. he should have had someone else besides his stupid mess of a wife, find out exactly how a broken nose is dressed. those with a true fracture, will more than likely, wear a dressing with a slight splint on either side of the nose.

        He honestly looked like a pure fool, with those things on his head, but the one on his nose took the damn cake. some nurse she is, NOT.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO I dont think the photo will be allowed just because it is “questionable” in authenticity

        I would point out why the shape of the head looks vastly different from authenticated police photos and why his nose looks so different from authenticated police photos and the nose skin color is vastly different and then I would argue about the the fact there is no dna on Trayvon’s hands, arms, sleeves, and cuffs

        Then i would show Trayvon’s photo of him in Hollister, when he was 16, and then I would show his autopsy photo

    • Xena says:

      @disappointed.

      IF there was 1 piece of evidence to suggest Fogen had a broken nose we all know MOM would have released it.

      You’re right, but that would certainly convict GZ so O’Mara prefers making it sound like having your nose broken justifies responding with a hollow-point bullet in the heart — and 40 seconds after the punch in the nose.

      • Girlp says:

        Amen!!!! since when did a broken nose justify killing someone? If Zimmerman’s nose had been broken it’s no more than he deserved you don’t stalk someone,confront them and attempt to detain him, but Trayvon only tried to get away from him and without violence. There are times I wish Trayvon had gotten in one good punch and at least given the creep a big black eye.

        • Xena says:

          @Girlp.

          Amen!!!! since when did a broken nose justify killing someone? If Zimmerman’s nose had been broken it’s no more than he deserved you don’t stalk someone,confront them and attempt to detain him, but Trayvon only tried to get away from him and without violence.

          Had Trayvon threw a punch, it would have been a hit and run to get away. I don’t believe that Trayvon punched GZ. This is how I think Zimmerman hurt his nose, and I wonder what the experts will have to say about how GSR got on the back of his jacket sleeve unless the gun threw it there.

      • Dave says:

        If Trayvon had punched the defendant at the T and the defendant followed him 45 feet down the dark “alley” between the buildings, and shot him, that wouldn’t be self defense (legal) but retaliation (very very illegal).

      • GirlP says:

        Xena, it was definitely the recoil of the gun that hurt his nose but it did not break it. Blame the teen for that too I guess; my cousin said he hopes Zimmerman burns in hell, I hope so too. Convicted or not Zimmerman has a lot of bad deeds coming back on him 3 fold.

  21. Tzar says:

    I would like you guys to contemplate for a moment the kind of mental capacity it takes to tell grieving parents to their face and without having any proof, that it is their fault that their child was dealt a terrifying and painful death, while at the same time, not only absolving the individual who unjustifiably cursed out, vilified, terrified, chased, confronted and killed their sobbing teenager, of any wrong doing, but lauding him as a good neighbor, a protector.

    You have to consider the mental makeup of someone who would do that, you have to look past their soccer mom appeal, their clean conservative tone or their protective tribal disposition and consider what lies beneath the face, the skin, the eyes of a person that can do that.

    Your soul seizing apprehension at the thought of such “honesty”, is not shyness or weakness, it is righteousness disguised as decency and compassion.

    • Malisha says:

      Hear Hear, Tzar! Absolutely spot-on bullseye!

      Fogen was a “protector” only of the “right to kill” and the associated “right to terrorize and bully” that we should well be rid of in this country.

      • Tzar says:

        how is he a protector worthy of carrying a life ending instrument and does not posses the ability to deescalate a boy’s walk home into…well an even safer walk home. I mean damn the kid speaks English, how in the ever loving Zoroaster do you as an adult find yourself in a fist fight with him after he runs from you, hell how does he wind up having to even feel like he needs to run from you, YOU FUCKING SPEAK ENGLISH!!!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Tzar, one of my first arguments with a Fogen supporter was over the issue of notification. “It’s kinda hard to speak to someone like that” I was told repeatedly. Gah.

    • Rachael says:

      That kind of shit just makes me want to cry. You are so right. Who could do that to grieving parents. And then you have those like MO’M who is a cheerleader – getting them all wound up and encouraging it. He is such a sick and evil man. And to make it worse HE knows damned well and good that Travyon and his parents are not the evil he portrays them as, he just knows that is the only way he can make his client look not so bad – and there are stupid, stupid, STUPID people who just figure if he says it, it must be so without even stoping to consider for a moment he too never knew Trayvon or his Parents. My GOD, what TF is WRONG with people?

      • Tzar says:

        I propose that they are more than just stupid

      • disappointed says:

        Wonder if MOM would feel differently if his wife and him were sitting behind the Prosecutor? How would he feel if a PJ and a Defense Attorney talked shit about how they were absent parent, or their deceased child was a thug? Some things you just DON’T do.

    • I agree. Well said.

    • whonoze says:

      It occurs to me that the PJ in question may have been too clueless to realize Trayvon’s parents were there in the courtroom. Perhaps she figured that, being bad parents and all, they were out smoking crack or something.

      • Xena says:

        @whonoze. My impression of that PJ is that she felt she had the superiority and authority to put Trayvon’s parents in their place.

        While you’re here, I have Sony Forge Audio Studio version 9. There are functions it provides that I need to study, but did want to adjust the EQ to see if I can lower the caller and dispatcher on that 911 call so that the background voices are heard better. It’s a 10 channel EQ. Any ideas?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        If she was a true-blue bigoted Southerner, she probably felt she had the right AND the duty to put TM’s parents in their place.

    • Sleuth says:

      @Tzar

      You nailed this my man, big time!

      That’s why we need to be sending as many prayers, much light, and good thoughts towards the Fulton/Martin family in these finally days leading up to the trial.

    • concernedczen says:

      These are the people who would picnic at a lynching not so many years ago.

    • Girlp says:

      Tzar,that is why I admire Sabrina and Tracy,my heart breaks for them, how do they do it?

    • Cercando Luce says:

      National Socialists of the card-carrying variety.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I was replying to Tzar, way way up the thread. I think the people who could thumb their noses at parents grieving their son’s violent death are committed Nazis. And enthusiastic members of Westboro Baptist.

  22. Two sides to a story says:

    I didn’t know NAACP has called for people to NOT protest – let the legal system do its job.

    http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/17/naacp_no_protesting_.html

    • Sleuth says:

      I agree with their local NAACP. What would be the purpose of protesting at the courthouse?

      • cielo62 says:

        Sleuth- even a peaceful protest would be construed as a “riot” and “outside agitators” To the racists. Being calm and letting the system work speaks louder than a public protest. Plus it makes racist’s heads explode!

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

      • Sleuth says:

        @cielo62

        BAAAMMMMM!!!!!! You sho’ nuff hit that one on the nail. I agree wholeheartedly.

        And to some racist folks, protests = progress for the AA community.

        I really don’t think these folks have anything against protests, it’s AA’s protesting that seems to bother them.

        They’re all for Freedom of Speech, long as there ain’t no AA’s expressing themselves.

        And during pj selection, so far, they couldn’t state one thing about the protests that was offensive, traffic jams don’t count.

        Folks have been protesting long before the prohibition days and will be protesting about something until the end of days.

        Somebody better tell Sanford it’s the 21st century.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, Good idea. Even the black community is on trial at Fogen’s trial. : /

  23. Malisha says:

    Just occurred to me: HOA lets Fogen set up NW without doing a criminal background check on HIM? HA HA HA No WONDER they paid off before the trial got started!

    They said in their newsletter, if you see something suspicious call FOGEN! Their lawyers were SMART to make them shell out the money before the trial got underway. DAMN! “Here: call our resident cop-attacker if you see anything suspicious; that’s a great idea, here: let’s have the videos turned off so he can run wild and shoot folks in your backyards where you walk the dogs, yeah, that’s the ticket; SUE US SUE US SUE USSSSSSSSSSS!!”

  24. Trained Observer says:

    My recommendations for next round, hoping hardship rids line-up of some “iffy” candidates, and strikes can be saved for a final shaping after defense squanders its share. (Admittedly, there’s so very much we don’t know about these PJs.)

    B-12: Middle-aged white female; works late shift. Likes CSI, says she’d heard Fogen followed Trayvon. KEEP FOR NOW

    B-29: Hispanic female nurse on an Alzheimer ward with 7 kidsl lived in windy Chicago at time of shooting. WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP

    B-76: White middle-aged female who says Fogen had an “altercation with the young man. There was a struggle and the gun went off.” TRY TO WEED OUT

    B-7: Middle-aged white male; NPR listener. Recalls when Florida implemented “stand your ground” and debate over whether needed.KEEP

    B-35: Middle-aged black male owning a vending biz. Critical of Sharpton & Jackson; says this case not racial. KEEP

    B-37: Middle-aged white female who works for a chiropractor and has a ton of of pets. Described protests in Sanford as “rioting.” STRIKE-OLA

    B-51: Retired white female from Oviedo with a dog and 20-year-old cat. Knows a good deal about the case, but said “I’m not rigid in my thinking.” KEEP

    B-86: Middle-aged white female working at middle school. Says if Trayvon had not been “expelled” from school in Miami — she oughta know the diff between expelled and suspended — “this could have been prevented.” DUH, WEED OUT

    E-6: A young white female and mother who used to work in financial services. Used case as teaching moment for her kids, warning them to not go out late. KEEP

    E-40: White female in 60s living in Iowa at shooting; heard about on national news and recalls shooting in a gated community and a teen killed. KEEP

    E-54: Middle-aged white male with teenage stepson who wears hoodies. Saw photos of Fogen’s head and face with boo-boos. KEEP

    E-73: Middle-aged white female from Sanford’s artsy community, raising late brother’s 15- and 18-year-olds. Says media interjected race in case. KEEP FOR NOW

    M-75: Young AA female says many friends have opinions on case, but claims she doesn’t.KEEP

    B-61: Young white female; remembers “after the protesters, it seemed to turn more into a racial issue…I don’t think it’s a racial issue.” KEEP

    B-72: Young male doing maintenance at a school and competes in arm wrestling. Avoids news because he does not want to be “brainwashed.” TRY TO WEED OUT

    E-22: Middle-aged AA female; says after shooting Sanford police should have booked Fogen and asked more questions. KEEP

    E-13: Young white female collegiate who works two jobs; Heard shooting was a “racial thing.” KEEP FOR NOW.

    E-28: Middle-aged white female nurse; claims she knows little about case and has no opinion about Fogen’s guilt. KEEP

    K-80: Middle-aged white female with kids who has not followed case; Cconsiders “racial undertones” in case “disturbing.” WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP

    K-95: Middle-aged woman who’s a full-time student and “IT geek” with two kids; Critical of protests calling for Fogen’s arrest. TRY TO WEED OUT

    P-67: Native Mexican wants to serve on the jury, describing civic duty. “Some people think it is a racist thing,” he said of the shooting. A KEEPER

    G-14: Middle-aged white female who recalls a “lot of anger, a lot of people upset” that Fogen was not arrested immediately. KEEP

    G-29: Young black female has lived in Seminole County for eight months. Cites racial tension build-up, but claims she “stayed away from it.” KEEP

    G-47: Young white male assistant restaurant manager says Fogen appears to be “stuck in the worst situation” possible. KEEP FOR NOW

    ?-63: Young, unemployed apparently mixed race male. Knows a little about case but pans stereotyping and says people sometimes interject race into cases . KEEP FOR NOW

    G-66: Retired white female who cares for toddler grandson and moved to Central Florida in 2011. Saw photos of Fogen injuries and, “I felt sorry for him.” STRIKERAMA

    G-81: Tall black male lives less than a half mile from shooting. Cites Sanford’s racial divide, but says media has misportrayed the city. KEEP

    H-6: Young white male who heard call Fogen made to cops before shooting. “He sounded like he was concerned for his neighborhood.” TRY TO WEED OUT

    H-7: Red-haired 50s male in a biz suit citing a “big brouhaha in Sanford,” describesd protesters as “a nuisance” and says “I still don’t know why it became a high profile case.” STRIKOLA

    H-18: A dark-skinned looker in his 20s with accent who’s a mechanic, owns his shop with a partner and moved here from Kuwait. Avoids discussing certain topics. “When it’s politics, religion or race, I just don’t get involved.” KEEP

    H-29: White-haired male calls national civil rights leaders who led protests in Sanford “a little circus come to town.” Says “negative for the city,” … “That honestly turned me off.” TRY TO WEED OUT

    H-35: Young female who said she knows little about case. She “liked” a photo of Trayvon on Facebook. Needs to move by and of June, claiming hardship. WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP

    H-81: Middle aged male (a lawyer? What kind of lawyer? Does he sit around all day looking at real estate contracts … or does he do trial work?) describes shooting as an “incident” between Fogen and Trayvon; calls shooting a “very tragic situation.” He has two pending civil cases before Nelson. KEEP FOR NOW

    H-69: Preggers PJ who saw news about case on TV at work. Mentions several times that she recalled seeing pictures of Trayvon as “a young child.” WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP

    H-86: Young white female says she knows almost nothing about the case. Says she keeps up with current events, but “certain cases and things I don’t follow.” KEEP

    I-5: Middle-aged AA male says he heard self-defense was involved with case, at one point referring to Fogen as “gentleman that was defending himself.” KEEP

    I-19: Young white female says she hasn’t followed case and knows only basics: “I don’t watch the news, I don’t read the news,” she, who lies or is really stupid, said. STRIKE

    I-24: Older white woman who followed case at first, but then “just kinda tuned out.” Says “a young man lost his life and another man is fighting for his life.” STRIKE

    I-33: Older white male, saying “more I heard, the less I wanted to hear.” Heard a 911 call involved in case, and “some controversy as to who was doing the screaming” heard. TRY TO WEED OUT

    I-44: Dad of 3 says he’s skeptical of media and its “negativity.” Calls himself a “sports nut.” KEEP FOR NOW

    • concernedczen says:

      “B-29: Hispanic female nurse on an Alzheimer ward with 7 kidsl lived in windy Chicago at time of shooting. WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP”

      The prosecution will want to keep her if they can.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I like her, but in a lengthy trial with sequestration, there’s too much risk one of the seven kids falls out of tree or whatever, forcing her to leave the trial. Yes, that’s what alternates are for, but why invite an accident waiting to happend.

        Unless, of course, a scenario shapes up where BDLR has a strong line-up of alternates to a point where he wouldn’t care.

      • Dave says:

        This lady made it clear that she was prepared to go through with it. I think she would be a very strong asset for the prosecution side. That’s why I’m sure that the Defense will strike her if they can’t get rid of her for cause. Let them expend a peremptory on her.

      • ay2z says:

        I don’t know that this woman is a ‘nurse’, because of her description that included she must work to maintain her licence. A qualfied nurse does not lose a licence in a short time. I thought she said something more along the lines of care aide, which can mean something very different from nurse.

        Not that it matters, but it may mean the difference between changing sheets or dressing patients, and medical qualifications.

    • bettykath says:

      Strike I 44. He has an air of superiority and won’t listen to anyone else, especially a female.

      The only potential to be concerned about is one who has already made up his/her mind to NG and won’t change it regardless of the evidence. Everyone else will go with the evidence.

      • Trained Observer says:

        B-K — Had trouble hearing last two wits today. Will make a “Snooty ‘Tude” note on my cheat sheet. Thanks.

      • Dave says:

        I find the guy repellant but he might go the right way. There are probably better targets for peremptories.

    • This is a cool breakdown, Trained Observer, thank you so much.

    • I agree with most, but not all of your ideas.

      Great start.

      I hope everyone makes their own list and participates the rest of the way in discussions about strikes.

  25. ay2z says:

    The Young Turks at start of jury selection about FOX News and

    “Trayvon’s Killer Has A Sly Ally”

    • ay2z says:

      No wonder the defense is keeping tabs on pj FOX viewers and whatever other stats they can glean, such as how many times viewed the case topic in media.

      Why not just let FOX and CNN alternate holding court instead of ‘the people’?

      • whonoze says:

        BDLR watches Fox. Never forget that the prosecution in this case is made up of conservative Republicans, political allies of Tea Party (i.e. racist) FL governor Rick Scott.

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks for the insight. The two party system is a mystery to me, with all of it’s alignments.

        It’s astounding to think that the media can control spin to such a degree as in these recent high profile cases.

        If anything is going to help the defendant, it’s the cell phone photos, because the state won’t bring them in to prove how they got on the phone. The damage is done.

        And Sanford may have the ‘he was an outsider in our neighborhood’ influence, along with the fallout of what some pj’s called ‘unnessessary’, ‘annoying’, disruptive and inconvenient protests by outsiders and ‘celebs’.

  26. kllypyn says:

    Lets see who the thug is. Trayvon had no record what so ever. Zimmerman.arrested 3-15-2007 charge unknown. Arrested 10-14-2007 charge unknown. arrested 8-6-2007 charge unknown Arrested 12-15-2007 charge unknown. arrested 6-3-2012 charge bail revolked. arrested 4-11-2012 charge murder in the second degree.the victim was a 17 year old minor Trayvon b Martin. who was killed while begging for his life.

    • boyd says:

      crazy case, the kid with no arrest is the thug, the guy with arrest record is the good guy. wtf?

      • Trained Observer says:

        And the college-bound B-B-Plus student is the “expelled” suspect, while the collegiate flunking dunce is to be felt sorry for by at least one PJ.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Just wait until the jury gets a load of those facts.

      • kllypyn says:

        unfortunately they wont be admissible unless the defense opens the door.

      • As I have said before, if the defense wants to open the door and play Character, the Fedex trucks will roll in GZ’s dirty laundry, and let’s not forget that part about lying about the bail money.

        Go ahead, open that door. Bring it. Here come the bad character trucks now:

    • elcymoo says:

      I checked, and the data and pictures of the George Zimmerman who was arrested on the dates in 2007 are clearly those of another GZ, several years older and many pounds thinner than the shooter of Trayvon Martin.

      • kllypyn says:

        his photos were on that website i got those from.

      • elcymoo says:

        I looked up ‘George Zimmerman arrested’ with each individual date in 2007, and every time it took me to the same site, with only the arrest for that date – no cause of arrest given – but the guy pictured was born in 1979, and is already in his early 30s.

  27. ladystclaire says:

    So come Friday morning, we will hopefully be another step closer in getting J4TM and his family. I don’t see how anybody can find this POS not guilty, after seeing all of the evidence against his OBESE ass.

    I mean there is evidence against him that we haven’t seen yet. Trayvon was a child and, it matters a damn if those who support his murderer, think otherwise.

    • willisnewton says:

      Sadly I too feel a personal animosity towards the defendant but the real lesson here is to hate the sin not the sinner. We as a society somehow allowed this knucklehead to be groomed into the kind of loser who would shoot an unarmed teenager for walking while black, having the temerity to walk past his car, and for running away when chased by a vehicle. How could this crime been prevented? Easy access to cheap handguns has to be examined as a contributing factor. The acceptance of casual racism seems another. His lying wife was some sort of enabler since he had HER handgun. I’m still fairly certain there was a tipster. What was this person’s malfunction? And so on.

      ALEK, concealed carry laws, “friends” like mark Osterman… People like Norm Wolfinger.

      • whonoze says:

        The timing in the security videos points to GZ having been ‘tipped-off’ to Trayvon’s presence, and I hope we’ll finally get a peek at GZ’s phone records during the trial.

        However, I think a tip-off could have been relatively innocent, “Hey George, there was a kid I don’t recognize wandering down RVC, and now he’s just hanging around by the clubhouse.” The only malfunction may have been GZ’s (booze and ‘roid fueled?) assumptions. Or not.

        If anyone did call GZ in the period before he left home that evening, you’d expect that person would be called, so maybe we’ll find out how the whole thing really started. (Going to Target, my arse…)

      • Rachael says:

        Sounds about right.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Our society has too much violence overall and our lax self-defense laws reflect this. It’s a conundrum, to be sure.

    • Malisha says:

      See, there’s an important factor to be considered here. These folks expressed these ideas after reading or hearing or seeing the “evidence” in the media — IOW, the “evidence” that O’Mara and West and their gang were splashing irresponsibly all over the place to sway people to believing that “a wannabe thug met a wannabe cop” and that’s all that happened that night.

      NOW six people will hear real EVIDENCE. Lots and lots and lots of it. I daresay a few of them will consider themselves to have been tricked, manipulated and played for fools when they compare what comes out to what they were led to “believe” before they had real information in front of them.

      The best I think Fogen can hope for is a hung jury. If he goes down for manslaughter he’ll be in the prison long enough to not care that he didn’t go down for murder; and if he gets the jury to hang (which I doubt, even with the questionable intelligence of many pjs), he’ll face another trial and with a lot more area under the learning curve for BDLR to do jury interview and selection techniques.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Corey will never walk away from this case on a hung or a mistrial. She’ll go after this killer until she gets him off the streets with a conviction. If jury dumbs down to manslaughter, JN will be sitting their smiling, delivering the max.

      • FactsFirst says:

        I with you on the once “the six people hear the real EVIDENCE!” I think the jury is going to be pissed at O’Mara, West, Fogen, the SPD, the media, and anybody else who sugar coated THE FACTS in this case.. They are not going to want this black cloud hanging over their state for the next twenty years… because eventually all the evidence will be made public down to the jurors names…

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Malisha, good evening to you and, I too hope these people can for once in their lives, look at ALL of the evidence in this case and, judge this village idiot on the evidence him and, not the race of his victim. I just had myself a long cry for Trayvon because, I don’t want him to be the EMMETT TILL of this century.

        There are a lot of heartless people in this country and, it is very evident by the way some who have chosen to support this murderer and, at the same time they vilify his victim.

        AA will never be wanted in this country, at least not by those who think this is their country and, theirs alone. and for the father of the defendant to be acting in the manner which he has been doing, this man and his family are in a classless class all by themselves. never before has the family of a murder defendant, acted in such a UGLY WAY, as this Zimmerman family has.

      • PYorck says:

        I agree. People do not like being tricked. To some extent GZ will be judged relative to the old defense narrative. The backlash from having lied about so many things could turn into a real problem.

      • whonoze says:

        @TrainedO:

        If the jury comes back with a verdict, JN has little or no discretion. Florida has strict mandatory sentencing. With the MANDATORY additions (use of firearm, etc.) that apply in this case, GZ will get 30 years even for Manslaughter.

    • Bliss says:

      Did anyone pay attention to the look on porkys face when the 40 ppl were selected.It was like oh s–t its about to go down and im scared.I dougt if he felt what poor trayon felt when the end of his life flashed in front of him.(TearTear)

    • pat deadder says:

      If he is found not guilty there is no justice.The prosecution has evidence we haven’t even seen.

  28. willisnewton says:

    Bending towards justice,

  29. Deborah says:

    from Jeff Weiner at Orlando Sentinel: Prosecutors and defense attorneys have settled on 40 prospective jurorsProsecutors and defense attorneys have settled on 40 prospective jurors to move on to the second round of questioning in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder trial, Circuit Judge Debra Nelson announced today. The prospective panel is made up of 16 men and 24 women. They were chosen after being questioned extensively about what they knew about t
    Prosecutors and defense attorneys have settled on 40 prospective jurors to move on to the second round of questioning in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder trial, Circuit Judge Debra Nelson announced today. The prospective panel is made up of 16 men and 24 women. They were chosen after being questioned extensively about what they knew about the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last year in Sanford.
    B-12: A middle-aged white woman who works the graveyard shift. She likes the crime-forensics show CSI and said she’d heard Zimmerman was following Trayvon.

    B-29: A Hispanic nurse on an Alzheimer’s ward who has seven children and lived in Chicago at time of shooting.

    B-76: A white middle-aged woman who said Zimmerman had an “altercation with the young man. There was a struggle and the gun went off.”

    B-7: A middle-aged white man who listens to NPR. He remembered when Florida implemented its “stand your ground” law and the debate about whether it was needed.

    B-35: A middle-aged black man who owns a vending business. He was critical of the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, and says this case is not racial.

    B-37: A middle-aged white woman who works for a chiropractor and has many pets. She described protests in Sanford as “rioting.”

    B-51: A retired white woman from Oviedo who has a dog and 20-year-old cat. She knew a good deal about the case, but said “I’m not rigid in my thinking.”

    B-86: A middle-aged white woman who works at a middle school. She said if Trayvon had not been “expelled” from school in Dade County — he was actually suspended — “this could have been prevented.”

    E-6: A young white woman and mother who used to work in financial services. She used this case as an example to her adolescent children, warning them to not go out at night.

    E-40: A white woman in her 60s who lived in Iowa at the time of the shooting. She heard national news reports and recalls the shooting was in a gated community and a teenager was killed.

    E-54: A middle-aged white man with a teenage stepson who wears hoodies. He recalled seeing photos of Zimmerman’s head and face that show injuries.

    E-73: A middle-aged white woman active in Sanford’s arts community, who is raising her late brother’s 15- and 18-year-old children. The media interjected race in this case, she said.

    M-75: A young African-American woman who says many of her friends have opinions on the case, but she doesn’t.

    B-61: A young white woman who remembered that “after the protesters, it seemed to turn more into a racial issue…I don’t think it’s a racial issue.”

    B-72: A young man who does maintenance at a school and competes in arm wrestling tournaments. He said he avoids the news because he does not want to be “brainwashed.”

    E-22: A middle-aged African-American woman who said that after the shooting Sanford police should have booked Zimmerman and asked him more questions.

    E-13: A young white woman who goes to college and works two jobs. She heard the shooting was a “racial thing.”

    E-28: A middle-aged white woman who works as a nurse. She knew little about the case and has no opinion about Zimmerman’s guilt.

    K-80: A middle-aged white woman with children who has not followed the case. She considers the “racial undertones” in the case “disturbing.”

    K-95: A middle-aged woman who’s a full-time student and “IT geek” with two children. She was critical of protests calling for Zimmerman’s arrest.

    P-67: A native of Mexico who seemed eager to serve on the jury, describing it as a civic duty. “Some people think it is a racist thing,” he said of the shooting.

    G-14: A middle-aged white woman. “I remember a lot of anger, a lot of people upset that Mr. Zimmerman was not arrested immediately.”

    G-29: A young black woman who has lived in Seminole County eight months. “There is a lot of racial tension built up,” she said, but she “stayed away from it.”

    G-47: A young white man who works as assistant manager at restaurant. Zimmerman appears to be “stuck in the worst situation” possible, he said.

    G-63: A young, unemployed man who described himself as “mixed race.” He knew few details about the case but denounced stereotyping and said people sometimes interject race into cases.

    G-66: A retired white woman who cares for her toddler grandson and moved to Central Florida in 2011. When she saw photos of Zimmerman’s injuries, “I felt sorry for him.”

    G-81: A tall black man who lives less than a half mile from the scene of the shooting. There is a racial divide in Sanford, he said, but the media has misportrayed the city.

    H-6: A young white man who heard the phone call Zimmerman made to police before the shooting. “He sounded like he was concerned for his neighborhood.”

    H-7: A red-haired man about age 50 in a business suit who recalled “a big brouhaha in Sanford,” described protesters as “a nuisance” and said, “I still don’t know why it became a high profile case.”

    H-18: A handsome, muscled, dark-skinned man in his 20s with an accent who’s a mechanic, owns his shop with a partner and moved here from Kuwait. He said he avoids discussing certain topics. “When it’s politics, religion or race, I just don’t get involved.”

    H-29: A white-haired man who described national civil rights leaders who led protests in Sanford “a little circus come to town.” It was “negative for the city,” he said. “That honestly turned me off.”

    H-35: A young woman who said she knows little about the case. She “liked” a photo of Trayvon on Facebook. Needs to move by the end of June, which she said would be a hardship.

    H-81: He described the shooting as an “incident” between Zimmerman and Trayvon, and “Mr. Martin ended up dead.” H-81 called the shooting a “very tragic situation.” He has two pending civil cases before Nelson.

    H-69: A five-months-pregnant woman who said she saw news about the case on television at work. She mentioned several times that she recalled seeing pictures of Trayvon as “a young child” in the media.

    H-86: A young white woman, who said she knows almost nothing about the case. H-86 says she keeps up with current events, but “certain cases and things I don’t follow.”

    I-5: A middle-aged African American man, he said he heard self-defense was involved with the case, at one point referring to Zimmerman as “the gentleman that was defending himself.”

    I-19: A young white woman identified as I-19, who said she hasn’t followed the case and knows only the basic details: “I don’t watch the news, I don’t read the news,” she said.

    I-24: An older white woman who said she followed the case at first, but then “I just kinda tuned out.” Describe the case as “a young man lost his life and another man is fighting for his life.”

    I-33: Older white man, who said “the more I heard, the less I wanted to hear.” Heard there was a 911 call involved in the case, and “some controversy as to who was doing the screaming” heard in it.

    I-44: A father of three who said he’s highly skeptical of the media and its “negativity.” He called himself a “sports nut.”
    >>

    • Thanks for posting this handy guide.

    • whonoze says:

      Weiner’s byline, but would seem to be Stutzman’s notes given the description of H-18.

      It could be a problem for the OS if he makes it to the jury, as Rene may miss key parts of the trial to make trips to the ladies room. 😉

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thank you! Numbers are not my forte and I have trouble remembering who’s who without descriptions. I’ve e-mailed this to myself for tomorrow’s round.

      Judge Nelson says she’s putting 30 in the jury box. I guess she’ll fill in with the other 10 as PJs are excused.

    • Sleuth says:

      Thanks Deborah. Great to have on hand.

    • ic2fools says:

      Thank you Deborah.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      After reading that list, my hopes are not up too high as far as fairness coming from any of those people. Nope. That saddens me.

      Zimmerman is a liar. His claim that Trayvon called him “Homie” was his first biggest lie. The second biggest lie he told was when he claimed that Trayvon was walking toward him. A kid running to get away from you is scared. That child was running because he was scared. He didn’t know if Zimmerman was trying to rob him or what. Zimmerman gave him a creepy feeling. Anyone with common sense would have felt the same way if someone was following them first in a car and then on foot. I know I would.

      He killed that child in cold-blooded murder; he knows that he killed that unarmed child, but he doesn’t care. Those that support him consider him a hero ridding the world of black thugs. Smh! What irritates me the most is that his supporters are determined to transform Trayvon, a skinny kid, into an adult male with superman abilities against Zimmerman’s 200 and something pound male with a gun. A male weighing a 150 something pounds is lightweight and no match for another male Zimmerman’s size.

      I fail to understand their concept that a black child is considered an adult before they become an adult while all other children are allowed the advantage of being called a child. Instead, a black child is automatically labeled an adult thug, which makes me wonder do some folks even know what a thug really is.

      It’s amazing that most of these people say that they do not believe that Trayvon was racial profiled. They know better, but they’re stubborn in their beliefs and don’t want to face the truth because it’s too ugly. They want to believe that Trayvon overpowered Zimmerman in order to soothe what’s left of their conscience, to justify it in their mind, so that they do not have to face the truth, and don’t have to give up their stereotypical beliefs.

      Trayvon was desperately hoping that someone in the apartment complex would hear him screaming and come to his rescue, but none did. I’m sure some of them are having reoccurring nightmares or reruns of that night. As long as they live, they’ll never forget that night.

      • Shari says:

        I agree with every word you said and it’s nothing new. Black men have historically been portrayed as subhuman lower evolved animals in order to justify slavery. Black boys are not boys, they are hulking brutes. This is why the pictures enraged them so. They thought the 7-11 footage would turn people against the victim. For them the image of a black child is scary. For every one else we noted how sad it was that those were Trayvon’s last moments.

        In describing this CHILD the racists refused to be factual.

    • ay2z says:

      Does anyone have the starting order of the list of 30 for the ‘box’ for morning? It’s in their individual voir dire order or their original call up number order?

      And will the final 10 be in the wings outside or inside the courtroom?

      • aussie says:

        Fred wrote earlier they have to be called in original call order, ie the same order in which they appeared for the individuals. That seems to be the order in which they got pulled from a hat, or whatever randomising they used.

        I read somewhere Judge Nelson will try to get 30 into the jury box and the others just wherever, inside the room as they all have to answer the same questions. Even 30 won’t fit, so they’ll have to put in extra chairs as it is. Almost better off use one half of the public gallery.

      • It should be the original starting order for all 40 with the first 30 in the box and the next 10 sitting in order on a bench or a row of chairs somewhere in the courtroom.

  30. boyd says:

    whew That was Brutal! I’ll never get in trouble again ,

  31. Valerie says:

    Following.

  32. Shari says:

    Sometimes Justice delayed is not denied. This trial took entirely TOO long to begin. I know investigations need time but we didn’t need a year to gather evidence. Once we had the phone records and autopsy we had enough to make a case. This was not a whodunit. I hope Sybrina and Tracy are ready, we all know how Florida juries can go.

    I wonder. Where are John Walsh and Beth Twitty. When there children were murdered they became activists for victims. I guess they didn’t like Trayvon’s pictures either…

    • Xena says:

      @Shari. It was GZ who waived his right to a speedy trial. Yes, it took a long time to arrest him, but there was also much more involved than phone records and the autopsy. There were GZ’s statements, video re-enactment, witness statements and interviewing them a second and some witnesses, a third time.

      John Walsh advocates for missing children. I have not heard of Beth Twitty. With many advocates, once the court system is involved, they do not get involved or if they have previously, they remove themselves. There are numerous reasons for that — too many to list and explain here.

      • Shari says:

        Beth Twitty is the mother of Natalee Holloway. The high school teen who went missing in Aruba and was presumed dead. Last I heard Beth had a show about missing people/crime victims. Aruba’s drinking age is lower than the US and she was off partying and went off with a group of guys. There was NO widespread effort to blame her for what happened to her. The only picture shown of her was a smiling high school senior portrait. Sean Hannity’s viewers did NOT demand a picture of her drunk dancing. It would have been powerful if Beth had stood beside Sybrina and asked her friends on the right to have a heart for another grieving mother.

        • cielo62 says:

          Shari~ Have to disagree with you on that one. MANY people blamed her poor choices on what happened that night. She totally ignored “Stranger Danger” advice, took off without her friends, and ended up dead. Don’t forget that there are still plenty of “blame the victim” folks when drinking/rape is involved. And in this case, drinking/rape/murder. No, she should NOT have been murdered. But she made plenty of stupid choices that placed her in harm’s way that should have been avoided. UNLIKE TRAYVON who RAN AWAY in every effort to avoid Stranger Danger. There is no correlation between these 2 cases.

        • Xena says:

          @Shari. Yes, I remember Natalee Holloway.

          It would have been powerful if Beth had stood beside Sybrina and asked her friends on the right to have a heart for another grieving mother.

          How so? If I remember correctly, the guy they thought was involved with Natalle’s disappearance was not arrested. Sybrina has accomplished much more than that in the death of Trayvon. Maybe the roles should be reversed if Sybrina has time and energy after trial???

      • Sleuth says:

        @Xena

        Pretty much like Rev. Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, – Civil Rights Activists.

        Their roles were complete once an arrest was made. However, that does not mean they’re not doing what the Rev. Ralph Albernathy advocated, “Pray and watch”.

        • Xena says:

          @Sleuth.

          Their roles were complete once an arrest was made. However, that does not mean they’re not doing what the Rev. Ralph Albernathy advocated, “Pray and watch”.

          BINGO!!!

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Shari — I agree with ceilo. There’s no similarity with Holloway or Walsh cases. And, yes, there was criticism over sending a bunch of under- supervised high school kids (or just out of) on a romp to an island where there not much to do other than bake in the sun, drink and gamble. With the Walsh case, Adam’s mom left him in the lamp department of Sears in Hollywood so she could head home for a nooner with somone other than John.

        Trayvon’s parents have been wise to steer clear of muddying waters of Justice for Trayvon by dragging in other unrelated situations, especially when the victims had parents who made questionable choices.

        It’s basic KISS — keep it simple.

        • Shari says:

          You’re right. Those comments about the other cases didn’t really belong. It just really bothers me. This is the first time in my adult life that I have seen such a great effort to provide “balance” and be “fair” to the defendant. This must be a defense attorney’s dream. I remember the only pics we had of GZ were his old mugshot. Well his family provided the suit and tie insurance pic and afterwards that was the only one used. The whole thing was ridiculous. His tie and smile didn’t erase what he did.

          • cielo62 says:

            Shari- I don’t know how long you’ve been following this case but GZ has been given MORE than a “fair” and “balanced” treatment. Who have you ever heard if that got not just one but TWO chances at bail even though lying his ass off ( via his wife) about tens of thousands of dollars in his shifting accounts? Who else has been allowed to have an Internet beg site, not just for him but for his slanderous parents as well? Who else has had lawyers allowed to run at the mouth UNFETTERED with filth and outright lies about the victim? Make no mistake Shari. GZ has gotten “special” treatment. Only Trayvon has not had the same respect in regards to his his short life and decent reputation.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Xena says:

            @cielo62.

            Shari- I don’t know how long you’ve been following this case but GZ has been given MORE than a “fair” and “balanced” treatment.

            Right!! When have we ever heard of a person under investigation for murder being allowed to leave the State?

          • cielo62 says:

            Shari- also, there were many mug shots used of GZ. The cop shop pics, the falsified bloody nose pic, the ridiculous bleeding back-of-the-head pics, his stupid smiling fake graduation pic. Honestly, he has too many pics of his beady eyes stretching back to when he was 10! Pay closer attention. GZ is NOT the victim here.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Shari says:

            I’m agreeing with you. I”m saying this is a first for me. He murders and gets a prime time interview with the star of a news network. I never cared about any of the pictures. No picture will change the facts. He stalked and murdered an unarmed child. I may stop the ranting. We’re going to have a trial now so I will breathe, whoosah…

          • cielo62 says:

            Shari- yes. The rants confuse me. All that is relevant will be revealed. It won’t be everything we want to know, but it will be enough to put a child murderer behind bars.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

    • Xena says:

      @Shari. By the way, this should all be over in 2 to 4 weeks. GZ will be in prison and well settled in before Labor Day.

      • cielo62 says:

        Xena~ Yes, eating “hot dogs” with his new cell mates.

        • Xena says:

          @Cielo62.

          Xena~ Yes, eating “hot dogs” with his new cell mates.

          Now, that’s just mean. 🙂 I wonder if they will have ketchup?

      • BLISS says:

        I really hope so.I have been watching the trial on my computer.I tell you,i have never saw so much vile and toxic racism hatred again Trayvon Martin the victim.

        • Xena says:

          @BLISS.

          I really hope so.I have been watching the trial on my computer.I tell you,i have never saw so much vile and toxic racism hatred again Trayvon Martin the victim.

          All that negative energy fell upon GZ. He’s buried in it.

      • Rachael says:

        @Bliss- and his family. I just don’t get it.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I’d like to think two to four weeks from opening to closing arguments, but with the way JN has allowed the Frye to drag on, I’m wondering if it will turn into another Arias marathon.

        Given the expected desired outcome, MOM is trying to keep Fogen out beyond his 30th birthday. When convicted, it seems likely he’ll be jailed immediately and not allowed to stay out on bond pending the sentencing ….. right? Please tell me that’s so.

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer.

          When convicted, it seems likely he’ll be jailed immediately and not allowed to stay out on bond pending the sentencing ….. right? Please tell me that’s so.

          Not sure in Florida. I did watch the John Goodman trial, and his attorney had to file a motion for bond pending appeal. Then the fool tried removing the GPS ankle bracelet and his bond was revoked.

          If I’m correct, defendants are remanded to the county jail pending sentencing, and then shipped off to the state prison to serve their sentence just after it is decided. Their attorney can file a motion for bond pending sentencing if an appeal to the conviction is also filed, which if granted, is generally much more than the bond set awaiting trial.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Hot diggity, you bad girls.

      • Sophia33 says:

        I don’t have that much faith in our justice system. I pray and hope though that you are right.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Is sentencing always a separate hearing? I thought that sentencing sometimes happens at the same time as a verdict.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides.

          Is sentencing always a separate hearing? I thought that sentencing sometimes happens at the same time as a verdict.

          As I understand it, in Florida, for those crimes that carry mandatory sentences, the sentence is issued at the same hearing after the verdict of guilty as charged. With crimes that do not carry mandatory sentences, there is a separate sentencing hearing.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ This carries a minimum of 35 years. Will the “to life” part be determined at that separate hearing?

            ________________________________

          • Xena says:

            @cielo62.

            Xena~ This carries a minimum of 35 years. Will the “to life” part be determined at that separate hearing?

            Sentencing will be a separate hearing, yes. And remember, the State can add charges up to the day that trial begins. There is still assault with a deadly weapon for shooting in a residential area that might apply since GZ said he was not sure whether he actually shot Trayvon. Rather than have concern for where the bullet went, he jumped on Trayvon’s back.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        Beautiful Xena, I pray you are correct! I keep thinking of the killers who have gotten off. We can’t get cocky, Bernie needs to work his ass off & JN needs to do her job, if they don’t we are so screwed.

  33. amsterdam1234 says:

    It is a fascinating process. Thanks for guiding us through it.

  34. Xena says:

    Yippee, yippee, yippee.

  35. cielo62 says:

    Beta! Yep! Amazing process.

  36. Rachael says:

    Thanks for making this so interesting, exciting and informative!

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