Watch and Comment: Zimmerman Frye Hearing Livestream

Thursday, June 6, 2013

Good morning:

Judge Nelson set aside today and tomorrow for a Frye hearing regarding the admissibility of expert testimony about the death shriek and a hearing on the defense motion for sanctions and a judicial inquiry into alleged discovery violations by the State.

Not sure which order she plans to hear these motions, but I am sure we will find that out when the hearing starts in about 25 minutes @ 9 am EDT.

Here is a link to the livestream:

http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html

Comment below.

Due to inclement weather, Crane and I have decided not to take our computers with us on our trip to TN for a doctor’s appointment. We will be with you for the first 1.5 hours and catch up with you later after we return.

Peace

1,216 Responses to Watch and Comment: Zimmerman Frye Hearing Livestream

  1. ic2fools says:

    Well ya’ll after midnight here, time for me to wrap it up. Need extra shut eye and in morning eat a lighter breakfast.

    So at Skeletor Time I won’t doze off waking up looking stoopid wiping drool off my arm! :p

    Good night everybody, rest well see you guys in the morning

    FROM THE SLEEPING QUARTERS OF IC2

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @ic2

      ic u tomorrow — same skeletor time, same skeletor channel 🙂

      i’ll get that caffeine drip started early and we’ll get you a bib … mmmmk?

      night night sweetpea

      • ic2fools says:

        big azz grinn gotcha too same skeletor time, same skeletor channel

        me screaming in laughter caffeine drip you ain’t wrong ahahahahahahaa.

        thanks for reminding to get a bib!

        b4 i get to bed i’m changing my gravatar to no more skeletor:

        his long azz breaths between words sure as hell blew out my gravatar candle, lol lol lol

  2. ic2fools says:

    Skeletor I thought only dogs were sensitive to high pitched sound.

    JN just checked him again, he is so disrespectful of her. Determined to do what he wants to do, it ain’t happen today Sparky.

    I will using Sparky to refer to West slow azz…

  3. aussie says:

    Actually, the screaming stops with the shot… then there is a tiny little YOWWW kind of sound. I think THAT was GZ, when the hot casing hit his nose (the spot on the right the butterfly bandage didn’t over).

  4. Malisha says:

    They still obviously have no expert who’s willing to get on that stand, be qualified, undergo the voir dire, and then testify that:
    (a) the terrorized scream was Fogen; or that (b) Fogen was screaming “Help me Help me” while Trayvon Martin said words to the effect of, “you’re gonna die tonight mo****f**ker.”

    So they got someone who would say that the amount of scream that could be isolated was too small to form any valid opinion about. He did, however, validate the METHODOLOGIES. HAHAHA!!

    That’s like getting someone who would not say that the DNA test itself is not valid for court, or that a drop of blood contained DNA belonging to a person other than the killer or victim, but who said that “this drop of blood was too small to be really sure about anything” Does not invalidate anything.

    Reich can say that he got enough of a sample to come to the conclusions to which he came. Certainly there’s no argument that he can use the techniques that he did use. Also, there is no magic number such as “less than five seconds’ isolated screaming cannot be analyzed.” Would it have been better if he had a full eight seconds of Trayvon’s terrified scream? Perhaps, but after all Fogen shot him before he could get out that last five seconds of screaming, didn’t he?

    It can be logically proven that the scream was not Fogen because Fogen testified that he did not know that he had actually HIT Trayvon Martin with that bullet he fired. Therefore, he would not have had any reason to stop screaming after firing — since he told the police that he continued to be afraid of Trayvon Martin even after he had fired the shot.

  5. Two sides to a story says:

    As I listen along to the phone part of the hearing I missed this morning, it truly annoys me.

    The time taken for the Frye hearing is necessary to sort out the expert stuff seems unavoidable.

    All the phone stuff – pffft. What a crappy waste of time for inadmissable information. I’m sure another outpouring of $ for Fogen will result from his galvanized supporters who probably think they won.

    And all the extra money and tea in China still won’t do Fogen a dang bit of good.

  6. kllypyn says:

    (repost to correct spelling.)The only reason they are trying to keep the experts from testifying is because they know damned well that was not zimmerman screaming.The jurors will know instantly who is screaming.Even his supporters know who was screaming.They just don’t care anything about the truth even when it’s staring them in the face in black and white.

    He watched,followed and then pursued Trayvon those are aggressive and creepy acts. He then illegally tried to detain trayvon who resisted. While holding him at gun point He interrogated Trayvon.He then while holding onto the front of trayvon’s shirts preventing his escape,he killed him while being careful not to shoot his own hand. That is what the evidence shows.

    I can tell by the arrogant look on his face,he still thinks he will get away with it.The only way he gets off is if they get a bunch bigoted Zimmerpukes,who will ignore the evidence and set him free.If that happens at sometime down the road he will go after someone else.

  7. kllypyn says:

    The only reason they are trying to keep the experts from testifying is because they know damned well that was not zimmerman screaming.The jurors will know instantly who is screaming.Even his supports know who was screaming.They just don’t care anything about the truth evben when it’s staring them in the face in black and white.

    He watched,followed and then pursued Trayvon those are aggressive and creepy acts. He then illegally tried to detain trayvon who resisted. While holding him at gun point He interrogated Trayvon.He then while holding onto the front of trayvon’s shirts preventing his escape,he killed him while being careful not to shoot his own hand. That is what the evidence shows.

    I can tell by the arrogant look on his face,he still thinks he will get away with it.The only way he gets off is if they get a bunch bigoted Zimmerpukes who will ignore the evidence and set him free.If that happens at sometime down the road he will go after someone else.

    • Malisha says:

      If all that unlikely stuff happens (he gets acquitted etc.) it is still likely that when he goes after someone else, that someone else will be armed and will stand his ground in a way that Fogen really won’t like.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Sorry Malisha, but I can’t go with you on that speculation because gz only goes after helpless children. It’s more likely his next victim will be another helpless child, tall enough to appear an adversary, but young and timid enough to give gz the courage he needs.

    • racerrodig says:

      Exactly right….and how many days now…….less than 4 days !!

  8. Malisha says:

    They still obviously have no expert who’s willing to get on that stand, be qualified, undergo the voir dire, and then testify that:
    (a) the terrorized scream was Fogen; or that (b) Fogen was screaming “Help me Help me” while Trayvon Martin said, “you’re gonna die tonight motherfucker.”

    So they got someone who would say that the amount of scream that could be isolated was too small to form any valid opinion about. He did, however, validate the METHODOLOGIES. HAHAHA!!

    That’s like getting someone who would not say that the DNA test itself is not valid for court, or that a drop of blood contained DNA belonging to a person other than the killer or victim, but who said that “this drop of blood was too small to be really sure about anything” Does not invalidate anything.

    Reich can say that he got enough of a sample to come to the conclusions to which he came. Certainly there’s no argument that he can use the techniques that he did use. Also, there is no magic number such as “less than five seconds’ isolated screaming cannot be analyzed.” Would it have been better if he had a full eight seconds of Trayvon’s terrified scream? Perhaps, but after all Fogen shot him before he could get out that last five seconds of screaming, didn’t he?

    It can be logically proven that the scream was not Fogen because Fogen testified that he did not know that he had actually HIT Trayvon Martin with that one bullet. Therefore, he would not have had any reason to stop screaming after firing.

  9. Judy75201 says:

    I need clarification on something I have seen referenced several times over the last couple of weeks. I thought that the fogen “help me” cries only existed at the police station for comparison to the shrieks on the NEN call. Yet I see people reference those utterances as if they happened when Trayvon was murdered.

    Thanks.

    • elcymoo says:

      I may be wrong, but I’ve heard some people – who could distinguish more from the enhanced tape than I was ever able to – say that GZ was mocking Trayvon’s pleas for help.

      • I’m with you. It’s exactly what I got. Zimmerman mocking the pleas for help.

      • Rachael says:

        I say that the importan aspect about the screams is that they stop as soon as we hear the gunshot.

        A little common sense is all it takes to explain that one.

      • aussie says:

        There was a tape3 with GZ’s whimpy little “helps” transposed onto the original 911 tape.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I am one who can hear him mocking Trayvon as he screamed and cried for someone to help him. he has got to be the most heartless SOB on GOD’S green earth. it’s not hard to pick up that second voice screaming for help, right behind Trayvon’s screams.

        It’s there plain as day and, for those who saw and heard this child’s cries for help, well they should feel pretty damn low because, they could have stopped this idiot from killing this kid. instead of them helping this child when he more than likely looked them in the face and, they turned their backs on him.

    • gbrbsb says:

      @Judy75201
      This is only my opinion of what I sincerely believe I hear and have heard for over 6 months, i.e. well before Reich’s report.

      I hear “I’m begging you” at the very beginning which in part corresponds with the OP saying “police, fire or medical” and which I attribute to Trayvon as it does not sound like GZ’s voice. I hear a single long “Help” midway, and a longish “stop” at the end just with the shot, both of which, along with “I’m begging you” I attribute to Trayvon as they are a distinct voice, IMO, from that of GZ’s whether talking or in his exemplar.

      Underneath the 3 utterances I attribute to Trayvon, and many months before Reich came out with them, at intervals I hear a softer “Help” and/or “help me” which I attribute to GZ because, a) they are softer, b) they are very similar to GZ’s voice exemplars, c) GZ claims he called out, yelled, shouted, “help me” (interesting that he rarely uses “scream” to describe what he claims he did), and d) he says he called out for someone to “help restrain this guy”, and iirc some witnesses claim to have heard him doing so albeit retracted.

    • KittySP says:

      Judy – He did for the purpose of the voice stress test yell “help, help, help me”. He also made statements to detectives, during the re-enactment, and on Hannity that he was calling for help. His attorney’s and father are claiming that cries for help on 911 tape are him. He didn’t know the cries had been recorded and when the call is played for him, he responds that it doesn’t even sound like him.

      I think Serino expected that the moment he heard that call being played, that he would have shown some sign of emotion and said something along the lines, “OMG, that’s me screaming for help trying to keep him from viciously banging my head on the concrete, he was trying to smother me, but I kept trying get myself from under him”.

      No one on this forum believes those cries of fear are coming from GZ. Certainly, not EVEN GZ.

    • Judy75201 says:

      My biggest concern with this is that some may think one of the vids put together with the shrieks and with fogen’s police station “help me help me” cries interspersed for comparison may think they actually happened at the same time.

  10. 10 minutes to the new post!

    (regarding the voice ID issue)

  11. willisnewton says:

    That this hearing happened on the anniversary of D-Day makes me sad. So many people died fighting against fascism and this jerk sits there enjoying the freedom all the blood was spilled for while his lawyer wastes everyone’s time… I’m glad the Allies won and justice is coming.

  12. Two sides to a story says:

    Geez, if I ever get caught up in legal land, I’m going to remember the “I don’t recall” line! : /

    I’m listening to the hearing videos, catching up – how many dozens of times was that said today?!

  13. Trained Observer says:

    JUSTICE FOR ALL

  14. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Do you think gz has any feeling of helplessness?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away
      Now it looks as though they’re here to stay
      Oh, I believe in yesterday

      Suddenly I’m not half the man I used to be
      There’s a shadow hanging over me
      Oh, yesterday came suddenly

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I haven’t yet looked for the hearing videos, I’m sure they’ve been posted so I’ll get another look soon. But, in the meantime, I paid particular attention to gz, who they were nice enough to show while the 911 call was being played. At the first scream he dropped his eyes and looked down… When the second scream came his eyes popped open and he looked up. You could seen he was deep in memory lane. After the second scream finished he managed to hold steady for a couple of seconds, then he seemed to realize the significance of what he’d heard and was thinking and he swallowed hard. The kind of fear filled gulp one takes when they realize their goose is cooked. Needless to say, for a fraction of a second, it was in his eyes as well.

        • ic2fools says:

          Lonnie Trent has yesterdays’ hearing up at youtube. Part 3,4,and 5 are Wesely White and Ben Kruibos.

          When BenK was asked was loosing his job worth the risk of his actions he said ‘Yes’

          Alrighty then BenK is ready to move into his mama basement. It’ll be a cold day in hell before his get’s another case sensitive job with accompaying salary.

          Right now McDonalds’ won’t even trust him with mixing ingredients to make their ice cream.

        • cielo62 says:

          Lonnie~ FINALLY sinking into that concrete block he calls a brain! NOW I wonder if he’s trying to use some butter to shimmy that GPS bracelet off of his ankle!

          ________________________________

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!

    • Dave says:

      JUSTICE FOR ZIMMERMAN!

  15. Dylan123

    4:47 p.m. ET: Mantei said someone may have a different opinion about the capabilities of the voice identification technology. Nakasone agreed with Mantei saying he had a problem with the opinion, but not the technology.

    From HLN’s live blog. Nice quick summary of Nakasone’s long-winded time on the stand. What it comes down to is that he personally does not agree with the opinion of the other experts, but accepts their methods (Primeau’s aural, Owen/Reich’s spectrograph) as scientifically viable and universally accepted within the audio forensics community.

    And the whole point of Frye hearing is to find that out-whether or not the methods used by potential expert witnesses are scientifically viable/accepted by their field. The opinion of whether or not they are to be believed is left up to the jury if/when they pass the frye/daubert standard.

    Nakasone just gave his thumbs up for Reich/Primeau/Owen, etc

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thanks, SG2. That’s really helpful to know. I missed a lot of the action today and having troubling focusing on the long testimony in the videos.

    • boyd says:

      I expected a PH’d to dump a shit on another opinions.

      I used to call them PH’d wars. I’d sit in meetings and listen to them argue all the time about who is right.

      And if they’re wrong , hari-kari time. They go to their office and hide for 2 months.

    • Girlp says:

      I figured that, if O’Mara/West use Nakasone at trial won’t they have issue’s with GZ statements that Trayvon supposedly covered GZ’s mouth and nose with his hands and if I’m correct when he moved his hand it was from GZ nose? How can anyone scream with their mouth covered you have to be able to move air from your lungs out, the scream would be muffled to the point no ones phone would pick it up.

      • racerrodig says:

        BDLR “…Okay Mr. Fogen….you’ve stated that is you screaming for help…I’m going to play this 911 call from the beginning and when we get to the part where your nose and mouth were covered, you just let me know…..ready ??…”

      • aussie says:

        Racer, Serino and Singleton already tried that and he kept not remembering.

        • racerrodig says:

          I remember……and despite the severity of the issue, one would expect him to. I don’t think the jury will let I’ don’t knows slide.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          2 days 13 hours to go.

          He’d better start remembering something because, in front of a jury you only need one big fishy thing to start down the wrong road with them. Or 2 small fishy things, or 4 little fishy things, or 8 tiny fishy things. Trouble is foggen’s gonna bring in a WHALE!

  16. Lynn says:

    While waiting for next blog can someone answer me something?

    http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/06/03/trayvon-martin-crime-scene-evidence-photos-george-zimmerman

    Some of these clothes photos last week were new to me. What I’m curious about is Trayvon’s hoodie. All the stains on both his and Fogen’s clothes have had little snippets taken out to run tests. Okay. Then there is half the back and waistband taken off of Trayvon’s hoodie. What would have that been???

    • ic2fools says:

      @Lynn

      Then there is half the back and waistband taken off of Trayvon’s hoodie. What would have that been???

      Fogen bloody handprints, JMO

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I am pretty sure they cut off a piece for testing purposes.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Yeah, of course, but why the back? And why so big? Don’t you think there may have been something other than “just testing” that caught their attention?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        It is in the FDLE laboratory report pg 123 of the first discovery.

        Distance tests were conducted using fabric cut from the back of each of the sweatshirts

        They needed enough fabric to test at what distance the shot was fired.

    • oh god right! that’s where they found nasty gz’s dna mixed w/Trayvon’s on the bottom of his sweatshirt right?? and it had to happen post shoot because Trayvon wasn’t bleeding until then! so there can’t be a mixed spot of Dna until after Trayvon was shot.. that further proves gz killed him in cold blood because the only spots of Tray’s were mixed with gz’s, I think only two. or 3 with one that wasn’t totally confirmed..

      • elcymoo says:

        Shannon, I think that GZ’s blood was found at the bottom right edge of Trayvon’s T-shirt, inside his hoodie. That would fit with the evidence of the shirts being grasped and pulled down to the right as GZ aimed and fired – being ever so careful not to hit his own left hand. The mix of blood elsewhere on T’s clothing probably happened when GZ patted him down, claiming he was looking for a weapon, but I’ll bet checking frantically for an exit wound. Remember, the EMT supposedly had to clean blood off GZ’s face AND hands. The police should have bagged his hands, IMO, and at the very least, taken photos to document his injuries.

    • Tzar says:

      looking at those pictures
      all I can think is: It was just a kid walking home

  17. Trained Observer says:

    Do you think jN is willing to go late today to make a point? IF defense (especially West ) drags out testimony till smoss grows on faces, everyone can count on some loooong days ahead during jury selection and trial.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I have come to the conclusion that one of West duties is to be as boring, long winded and drawn out as he possible can as he possible can. This strategy is used to put the jury into a mental coma… so they walk away not caring, knowing or remembering anything said by the “expert”… or anything occurring in the courtroom, when west is involved for that matter.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Jurors are going get plenty of snooze time when he’s at the lectern … not that O’Mara is any dynamo.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Is it me? Or does anyone else notice that for a brother, appearing in court in support of his brother, he spends no time looking at gz nor gz at him? They seem repulsed by each other.

          • racerrodig says:

            He spent a good part of camera time mugging and smirking yesterday….what’s up with that ??

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            He only comes to court for the cameras, not for gz. When have we ever seen the family leave court with gz? When there’s a recess or after it’s over, when do we see RZ go over to gz for a chat? Never, no one goes near him, he’s always all alone, even during breaks his lawyers find things to do to stay away from him.

          • racerrodig says:

            True all of that, but why even try. I’d be too embarrassed to stick my nose out for the likes of him and what he represents.

  18. PYorck says:

    It is important to keep in mind that hardly a word was said about speech recognition, i.e. finding out what is said in the recording.

    • Rachael says:

      Speech recognition has a hard enough time under the best of circumstances. It sux. Speech wreck is a joke.

      • PYorck says:

        I was not talking about asking Siri to tell us what’s on the recording. I was talking about mostly manual analysis.

        I am absolutely not a speech recognition expert or even any kind of speech expert, but my exposure to things like that in university was still quite a bit above average. Sorry, but I will go with my professors and my friends, some of whom have even done forensic phonetics work. Yes, fully automatic systems have their limitations, but there are many very interesting things going on.

      • Rachael says:

        Yeah, real interesting – like putting medical transcriptionists out of work and spitting out useless medical records.

        It works well when it can be trained to a voice it knows, but it just does not have the capability to deal with it and as a MT, it was part of my job to “train” it.

      • PYorck says:

        Commercially available speech-to-text systems are just a fraction of what speech recognition is about and only very loosely related to anything that would be used here.

        I just took issue that you brushed my comment and Reich’s work aside with such a sweeping generalization.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’d have a problem with speech recognition if it weren’t for the fact that there are only 4 voices on the tape. Two of those voices are clearly in the foreground, since it is the caller and the dispatcher. While the other two voices are one or another of two more distant people.

          These people are separated by age, weight and psychological space. One is bigger, stronger, combat trained, and has been employed in “enforcement” with physical contact duties he was assessed as being capable of performing, while the other was merely a hapless child with no criminal intentions or mission, and whom the evidence shows never engaged in physical offense, while his opponent had a firearm, on top of being more capable he was angry and on a mission he believed would keep the neighborhood safe.

          Thus the most likely candidate for being fearful is, obviously the child! So then, why would the more capable of the two be the one in fear? WORSE YET for any view of a fight having taken place, the child is clearly displaying fear and submission. You’d have to be insane to imagine that an untrained and combat incapable child in fear, would suddenly become anything near a match for the aggressor.

          Obviously the one who knew no holds, knew not how to apply any wrist locks or other defensive maneuvers, is not going to be the one to be screaming in pain! It is insane to think he’d be engaged in fear filled screaming, while beating a stronger more combat capable person either.

          Finally, why are we supposed to accept that a fear filled child, who was unarmed, would not respond appropriately to the threat of a firearm being trained on him? Even if he had grabbed the gun, there is little reason to believe he could wrestle it away. However, the evidence shows he never even tried that.

          Thus, if the child never saw the weapon then it is second degree murder! If the attacker shot with one hand free, it is second degree murder. You cannot be under lethal assault and still have one hand free to draw a weapon! Thus, if you manage to draw a firearm at all, you have a duty to display it and issue a warning, if you are not under threat of a continuous deadly assault.

      • Rachael says:

        It is my work too and I don’t believe I brushed it aside. In fact, isn’t Reich the one who bases it also on his experienced ear? So we are saying the exact same thing – unless that was the other gentleman. Sometimes a human ear is necessary to put not just the sounds but the context together because a machine cannot do that yet. They may be great for analyzing things but sometimes oh, never mind – speaking of ears, I have work to do LOL – but I brushed nothing aside. I’m just saying context is important and that requires a human ear and experience. At least at this time.

        • cielo62 says:

          Rachael~ I agree with you 100%. Sometimes when I’m bored and at some restaurant where they have the TV on with closed captioning, I SEE that the machine does the weirdest things; “hears” totally the wrong word for the context. There is no substitute for human intelligence.

          ________________________________

          • dianetrotter says:

            I teach kids to do the same thing when learning a song. Listening to the harmony and pick out all voice parts. Listening to the music to identify all instruments and the patterns they play. We use Audacity to remove the vocal track from songs.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Agree Racheal, and, IMO, God forbid the days he seemed to predict when for this kind of analysis the human ear would be superfluous, albeit he did clarify that “listeners” would in his opinion always be necessary for court proceedings.

      • PYorck says:

        Your original remark…

        Speech recognition has a hard enough time under the best of circumstances. It sux. Speech wreck is a joke.

        … seemed to indicate that you made a leap from ‘speech recognition’ to ‘automatic speech recognition’. How is that supposed to make sense if you were including listening or other methods based primarily on human judgment? And your follow-up about automatic speech-to-text in particular only seemed to confirm that.

        In his letter Reich spends much time talking about what was said on the recording as opposed to who said it. That’s speech recognition no matter how he did it. From the little glimpses that we have seen of his method it does not seem to be automated.

        Nakasone mentioned speech recognition in passing today but did not address it in any detail. That means that all his concerns about recording length, emotional state, voice variability, range of sounds found in the recording etc. are not directly applicable to that.

        I am not surprised that speech-to-text for medical transcription doesn’t work well. Speech-to-text is a notoriously difficult task because it is a very open-ended problem and involves “two sides” of the problem where things can go wrong. First there is the recognition side where it is all about which sounds were spoken, but that is not enough. Then that has to be converted into the right written words without any real knowledge of the content. There are simply many steps in that chain and an error in one most likely ruins the whole result. It is only made worse because for transcription you have to get it all correct. Other applications of speech recognition like those phone dialog systems that everyone hates can get away with a lot of cheating. Usually they discard most of what you say and only pay attention to a few keywords. Systems like that are much less ambitious in many ways, but they are also mature enough that people trust them enough to use them in fighter jet controls.

        In a case like the 911 recording you could approach things a little differently because it is not necessary to leave the final decision to a computer. Just detecting likely spoken sounds at specific times and letting a human operator puzzle out the meaning is an acceptable answer. And of course you can also simply use a computer as a fancy recorder and visualization tool and leave all decisions to a human from start to finish.

      • PYorck says:

        I want to apologize. I went a little overboard yesterday.

  19. whonoze says:

    When all is said and done, it seems to me that Dr. Nakasone’s opinion is rather generic, and based on his very stringent standards. His opinion of the 911 recording comes down to, “We have to throw out everything but 3 seconds of screaming, and no-one can tell anything from 3 seconds of screaming.” His opinion of competing experts comes down to, “Anyone who would claim they can make a positive ID from 3 seconds of screaming is a quack.”

    First of all, this doesn’t address the bulk of Reich’s testimony, which is about what words can be recognized by scrutinizing the recording, not who said them.

    Second, it sets a clear standard for the State’s voice ID witnesses. I would assume they found more than 3 seconds of the recording usable for their purposes. They will now clearly need to explain their rationale for including the additional material in their analyses. If they can’t do that well, then they SHOULD be disregarded. But I would guess they are armed with arguments as to why their method is valid, and that those arguments will be less generic than Dr. Nakasone’s, but rather refer to the specifics of the recording(s) in question. Something along the lines of, “well, yes, there is a lot of cross-talk, but that doesn’t totally rule out identification IN THIS CASE because of (tech factor x, y, z…)”

    • boyd says:

      I have to re-listen to Nakasone’s testimony , I had other pressing issues. But I did catch enough to know where he was heading.

      I don’t have my glasses.

      I spent a few years developing sensing recognition equipment.
      so I began to understand some of what he was saying before interruption.

      #1 Does he know how the hardware works, section by section? , Hardware has advantages and disadvantages.
      You should know that to understand any weaknesses. Where I used to work we always evaluated the competition

      #2 If one is using a logarithmic amplifier or some software log algorithm , it usually means the resolution needs to be better, Logs kinda give the impression you have more range.

      #3 if you had the manufacturer testifying ,he would likely tell you how great it works, no? I’ve learned over time especially with PH’d. They are very critical of anyone else’s work. so I kinda guessed he was going to dump a big shit on it pretty quick.

      as with all machinery, nothing is perfect but it’s the best we got.

  20. Tzar says:

    O’Mara justice

    voices overheard with full context available = needs 100% scientific certainty before it can come in

    some random hand on a phone with no context = pretty sure that’s means he tried to kill George, the jury should hear about this

  21. crazy1946 says:

    I just got back, is the day done or are they just in recess?

  22. Dr. Nakasone is conservative by nature. He prefers not to speculate about anything or go out on any limbs.

    He is suspicious of new methodologies and wants to see the data they produce before forming a conclusion about the use of the methodology.

    Most scientists are like this and I have to confess that I agree with his approach.

    This stresses the importance of professional journals in science and the role of peer review in evaluating new theories and methodologies.

    Reliability = reproducibility.

    KEY PRINCIPLE: A novel theory or new methodology in science must be tested by someone. The results must be published in a professional journal describing the experiment that was used.

    Until other scientists have reviewed the published paper, commented on the experiment and the results, and run the same experiment in their labs to see if they get the same result, the novel theory or new methodology remains nothing more than an unconfirmed possibility.

    When other scientists get the same or reproducible results, the theory or methodology is recognized as reliable and becomes a part of accepted or established science.

    This is the scientific tradition by which novel theories and new methodologies become accepted science.

    It is evidence driven.

    • whonoze says:

      The science parody magazine produced by professional scientists themselves is called “The Journal of Irreproducible Results,” (which you would find howlingly funny, if you were a scientist…)

      • cielo62 says:

        whonoze~ even if you’re not a scientist, you can get the gist and laugh. I used to read it in grad school.

        ________________________________

    • EdgySF says:

      Professor, how about a stress analysis of the scream? Can the experts prove that one must have been under serious and intense duress during that scream?

      The first witness on the scene said that the killer was notably calm. He was by no means crying.

      And was it the ME or the funeral director who said Trayvon had a dried tear on his cheek?

      • Jun says:

        It’s very simple

        Listen to it

      • KittySP says:

        ESF – the expert witness stated that the person producing those cries for help was someone under extreme duress. Witnesses and tests performed by EMTs shortly afterward show GZ was well within normal ranges.

        Trayvons father was shown a photo of him the next day that showed tear on his face and blood coming from his mouth. Image no parent would be able to forget.

    • bettykath says:

      I agree completely that the Dr. is very conservative. He is also very knowledgeable. He was asked to do a specific task in evaluating the 911 call. He used the approved protocol and found only 3 seconds of useable sound and that was insufficient to proceed.

      It’s possible that if a different question were asked, and someone with somewhat different protocols that are still valid, might get a different answer. Let’s hope so.

      One thing he did that is helpful is that he validated other methods.

      I had no problem in understanding his speech but maybe it’s b/c I have spent time with other Japanese immigrants and have become somewhat accustomed to the accent. I’m still unaccustomed to their extreme politeness.

      • Jun says:

        I think he is full of crap to be honest

        I use no audiology equipment and just use my ears and I can make out

        1) Trayvon or a younger voice at the beginning of the tape, yell out, “Get Off” in a scared manner

        2) I can hear Trayvon squeal in pain.

        3) I can hear a whispery creeper voice similar to Fogen’s but can’t make out anything.

        4) It was clear enough for Fogen to say, he did not recognize the voice as his own screaming and it does not sound like him.

        5) I can make out a younger voice yelling out for help

        6) I hear screams ended with a gunshot, which both the 911 caller and dispatch agreed that the screams ended with the gunshot

        Considering this is using my ears, audiology equipment should be able to eq and highlight frequencies to make the recording even more audible and what i stated is way more than 3 seconds.

        • racerrodig says:

          “…audiology equipment should be able to eq and highlight frequencies to make the recording even more audible and what i stated is way more than 3 seconds.”

          I have a lot of EQ and sound processing gear for my PA system. I can hear without it, but with I clearly hear “get off” “I’m begging you” “I don’t know ’em” and what sounds like a very faint female voice a few seconds before the shot.

          When I use my EQ to get the volume leveled on my meter of what is clearly Trayvon’s voice, I have to move the volume up at least 50% to get the same apparent volume level of Fogen’s voice.

          Why….Fogen was not screaming…..not real hard to figure out.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Racer, I sure wish you could record and post an audio file of your enhancements. Can do? No can do?

          • racerrodig says:

            i could try. The sound equipment I have is PA stuff but it’s probably not much different than what others use. I’ll have to try and get the signal onto my computer somehow.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            You just need a computer mic, you can get one at Staples or Office Max or Radio Shack, they come with the software to capture audio. Or you could just get a double pronged male jack and plug it in to the computers mic port. Download the software from a free site by googling audio software. Of course, if your computer has a sound card so much the better, google “belarc advisor” it’s software that will tell you about every thing under the hood. Even which programs you don’t use very often or never used so you can unload them.

            Happy hunting and oh by the way all I’ve got the June 6th hearing up in only 2 parts on my evidence pile

      • gbrbsb says:

        I agree with your analysis and I too worked many many years ago, (when I was young), with a Japanese company for 2 years and found their politeness extraordinary, but also their absolute adherence to the “accepted” behaviour, whereby my boss, when I gave in my notice, met with me in secret to offer me a raise and God knows what else to try to change my mind explaining that it was not their custom to plead and I must not tell anyone!

        I do think though that his marked pronunciation is not good for juror sympathy especially with his expertise, i.e. analysing voices of English speakers, but IMBW… but I sincerely hope not.

      • @Jun Are you going to believe Fogen, or trust your lying ears?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I don’t know but those two audiologists whom the newspapers tasked to perform analysis seemed to have been able to conclude that it was not gz screaming. The only problem they claimed to have had was, they could not say it was Trayvon, but that was only because they did not have any sample of Trayvon’s voice. Now that the videos and other data have been extracted from his phone, perhaps there is a voice sample there, that they can use for a comparison?

  23. acemayo says:

    Remember GZ said he a very bad nose bleed, TM has his hands
    over his mouth and nose, his head very being bang on the sidewalk
    one more time before he shot TM how can the scream not be clear

    • racerrodig says:

      Lets talk about all of Fogens blood on Trayvon’s hands from that shit….opps, my bad, there was none. No water or grass, let alone concrete scrapings on the back of his head either. And his jacket being remarkably dry and stain free…..I need to buy one of those.

  24. SoulSistaWoo says:

    What happen? I stepped away for just 5 min or so and when I came back the screen was thanking me for watching… Last thing I seen was the State Attorney IT Specialist re-crossing the defense audio witness.

  25. ay2z says:

    I do not understand why the defendant still wears this vest inside the courtroom. It’s ridiculous. Except if it has some message for jury members and reason to keep it in place to use in some defense scheme, or future argument bringing in the alleged ‘continuing’ threats since the new black panthers wanted an arrest. No one wants him killed now, they want justice system to work.

    • looolooo says:

      I wonder IF the prosecution can or will ask the defense to prove that all these credible threats exist.

      The Martin/Fulton/Jackson/Crumps aren’t too popular in certain circles and they seem to be able to walk the streets with out fear of being murdered……….. at least now that fogen’s on lock down.

    • PYorck says:

      Body armor is a gentleman’s corset.

    • racerrodig says:

      He’s a lying scum sucking Drama King…..That’s all…oh, and a racist murderer.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @ay2z –

      A lot of testimony today was on “assuming” – that Bernie didn’t turn over evidence to O’Mara, etc. So, we’re seeing the hazard of “assuming.” I fear you’re assuming this is some protective device that fogen is wearing that is “bulking him up” and surely he doesn’t need that in a secure courtroom.

      I would agree with that – no need for such protection.

      What does he need at such times of stress? He’s got a concealed carry permit for a 48-hour supply of Depends, and he’s carrying them in the “vest dispenser” for those who need quick access. They do, however, offer “baffle protection” from the wadding, and hollow-point bullets will fragment upon contact,

      Isn’t science and technology wonderful?

      I’m heading to the US Patents Office, right now …

    • cielo62 says:

      ay2z~ no vest; just home-grown fat.

      ________________________________

  26. Okay, in recess. Fred will get a new blog up.

    BTW, it is what is on Zimmerman’s fucking phone, in the wake of the shooting, and not previous crap on TM’s phone that has nothing whatsoever to do with the elements of murder 2, that matters.

    We are not comparing old phone records to old phone records here.

  27. looolooo says:

    Well it appears that fogen kinda likes that pretty, long-haired, skinny AA girl intern. I suppose she must act lilke a white person. I wonder if joonyah approves.

  28. ay2z says:

    the live feed just replayed West’s little outburst.

  29. KittySP says:

    is GZ not wearing wedding band? looked like he said he needs to use the bathroom.

    • Rachael says:

      I’m sure it no longer fits.

      • looolooo says:

        Maybe he should start wearing his weddin’ ring through his nose like all other cattle.

        • Xena says:

          In the photos taken by and at the SPD of GZ the evening of 2/26/12, he was not wearing a wedding band. He probably doesn’t have one. Notice too that the ME documented that Trayvon was wearing a watch. GZ was not wearing a watch. With only 40 cents in his pocket, that speaks volumes about GZ.

          • racerrodig says:

            And just $16.37 in the checking acct. and no savings acct. Yep, a real role model.

            Cash assets of $16.77…..and behind on every payment…….

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig.

            Cash assets of $16.77…..and behind on every payment…….

            Yep, and that was after having $18,000 just 6 months prior.

          • racerrodig says:

            That’s a lot of targets and ammo for the gun range…..and pizza, Chinese take out, Golden Corral, KFC……..

            Setting something aside for a rainy day, pay some bills…….eh, not no much.

      • racerrodig says:

        The ring or his marriage ??

    • Dave says:

      Also, he wears a watch on his left wrist. Isn’t that unusual for a lefthanded person?

    • Dave says:

      The killer’s hands on the night of the murder:

      • racerrodig says:

        No wedding band shadow either, but they threw a wedding together in like 2 days. Remember, Sondra Osterphoole made wedding cupcakes.

        His nails look manicured compared to every real man I know.

      • KittySP says:

        Thanks Dave.
        Hmmm…interesting, not even a tan line indicating normal wear and maybe taken off recently.

        • cielo62 says:

          kittySP~ I tell ya; they’re not really married! Like everything else about them, their “marriage” is a fraud. For tuition? For tax breaks? Who knows?

          ________________________________

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Cielo –

            People expand but gold does not. Likely he had it cut off – but would need extra gold to fill the needed expansion. For some reason, this was not done.

            One harvest I was helping the work crew ship out avocados. The wooden bins are about 4 ft. x 4 ft. and hold a half ton (1,000 avocados). The packinghouse delivers the bins by hydraulic truck and they are dumped on the ground. I grabbed one to upright it and a bee or wasp that had alighted stung my left hand – ring finger.

            I’m not sensitive to bee venom so kept on working, then had to rush of, shower & change and head off to a hearing with the state Ag Commissioner. Hot steamy hearing room. Left hand swelled up like a boxing mitt. Stopped in at the local fire station that Friday evening after the hearing and they cut my ring off. A little tricky getting the metal snips under the ring, but they did it neatly.

            So it would be no problem to help Zimmerman out of his quandary. Not getting it repaired is another issue.

            Maybe there’s a metal detector at the local jewelers that won’t let anyone in with a judicially-imposed ankle bracelet …

            (PS: I attended that Friday hearing to address the Ag Commissioner’s permitting transit of uninspected (“phytosanitary” inspection for agricultural pests) Mexican avocados from Mexicali to Long Beach Harbor for shipment to Japan. I cited the long list of beneficiaries: the shipping companies, dockyards, truckers, Mexican growers, and the Chicago bank that was holding all that “paper” for the Mexican treasury – everybody except the California farmers he had taken an oath of office to support. It was all over local TV. Commissioner Clare Berryhill went back to Sacramento and resigned his office on Monday.) A simple bee sting would not keep a good farmer down.

          • parrot says:

            Girl, you’re a farmer??

            I have a small vegetable garden and two li’l orchards with some stone fruit, papayas, figs, persimmons, muscadines, passion fruit and citrus. Small time stuff, but so happy in my garden.

            That’s my Tropic Snow peach tree in my avatar.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Parrot –

            Oooh! Loved your avatar the first moment I saw it. Never occurred to me that was YOUR fruit. Beautiful! Do you make jelly from our muscadines? Yum.

            Farmed recently for 25+ years but life span of avocados is 25-27 years and they are thirsty trees. Water is high priced in CA so I expect to transition to an olive grove + vineyard. But too involved this year in JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON to take time out for grove rejuvenation. Your farm sounds wonderful!

          • parrot says:

            I’m just a wannabe farmer. Learned by trial and error. Mostly error, so, mon chapeau, mademoiselle mon chapeau, mil fois.

            I have so much respect for the people who actually make a living off of this.

            What type of grapes? Olives, too?? Just like the Old World. Grapes and olives.

            I just planted a few avocados of my own, of the cold-hardy Mexican types: Lila, Fantastic, Joey and Mexicola.

            Yes, I make muscadine jelly, peach butter/jam/jelly, plum jam, plum fruit roll ups, marmalade. More than I can eat. Share with my family and friends.
            I’m rambling.
            Who would have thought that you were a professional farmer?
            ¡Abrazos!

          • racerrodig says:

            I never did have a green thumb, but my grandfather could grow tomatoes on asphalt.

          • parrot says:

            He must have known what he was doing.

          • racerrodig says:

            He was one smart guy with a lot of common sense. He and my 1st wife would play farmer all day…..of course I did most of the digging and such, but they could grow some stuff. I really miss him…

            In fact, they planted corn and just like Taaffe said, they got corn.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- no you got a GREASE thumb!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • racerrodig says:

            I’ll buy that !!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… now we’re into thumbs eh? 😆

          • racerrodig says:

            But with the right soap they clean right up.

          • cielo62 says:

            Parrot- I searched and searched your avatar and NEVER found a parrot in that tree!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • parrot says:

            No, Cielito Lindo.

            Parroting is what I do for a living. I am a judicial interpreter/translator.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Parrot –

            Re: “Parroting is what I do for a living. I am a judicial interpreter/translator.”

            How clever – and how fascinating! How many languages?

          • parrot says:

            Pirañita,

            I only interpret passively and actively in two–Spanish and English.(Although I’ve studied other languages).

            It took a lifetime of exposure to these languages to get the linguistic breadth, and depth necessary to pass the federal certification examination. (Very difficult. The exam has a 4 to 5% pass rate).

            Then armed with that linguistic base, you develop and hone interpreting skills.

            So that’s how I make a living, but I love to grow things although I’m not that good at it. (Hence “wannabe farmer”). I haven’t found a way for gardening to pay for itself.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Parrot,’

            You are pursuing a complex and demanding career! Beyond the translation of words and idiomatic phrases, every “client” is an individual to whom you must adjust: their education, intellect, experience with the US justice system, age, ability to express themselves in their native tongue, their level of trust in YOU (you’re their lifeline!) and the various dialects used across this hemisphere. At times, I’m sure it’s a daunting task! Some you will love, some you’ll loathe, but you’re a professional, so they’ll never really know.

            Don’t worry about your farm becoming a cash cow (how’s that for a mixed metaphor?) You are getting the nutritional benefits and pleasure from the fruits and veggies you grow. Nothing like a sun-ripened tomato, melon or peach – right?

            It’s always been my intent to write the definitive text on the economics of avocado farming. I have the title: “How to Make a Million Dollars Growing Avocados.”

            Chapter One is : “Start Out With Five Million.”

            My other job the past few years is as a corporate speech writer. So far, nobody’s thrown a ripe tomato at any of my clients …

          • parrot says:

            Hilarious!

            “How to Make a Million Dollars Growing Avocados.”
            Chapter One is : “Start Out With Five Million.”

            That’s me! Ha, ha.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Parrot,

            C’est moi, aussi! (Y yo, tambien … sin $5M!)

          • racerrodig says:

            What does a Billionaire become when he goes racing ??

          • parrot says:

            A billionaire? What? 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            A Millionaire……

          • parrot says:

            Sounds like we’re both in the wrong hobbies, racer.

          • racerrodig says:

            Thank God I was never a Billionaire or a Millionaire where I could lose that kind of money. As a Sportsman racer, that is, a hobby racer, I have won a lot of money and since I do just about all my own work, I usually am in the black financially. If I had to pay someone to build my car, engine, trans, wiring etc, I probably couldn’t afford it.

            I do know quite a few who make good money, went racing and a divorce, foreclosure and bankruptcy later….still didn’t get it.

          • parrot says:

            You do it yourself. I’m afraid that even doing the gardening myself leaves me in the red.
            I had a field of persimmons and opened it to the public for u-picking when they began full production. Persimmon canker had set in, though, and I lost more than half the field.
            I’m going to try again with some peaches and citrus.

          • racerrodig says:

            The most I know about gardening is how to run the tiller….other than that, not much.

          • cielo62 says:

            Parrot- COOL! That must be hard. I did a bit of medical translation and it can get difficult especially if the Spanish speaker is not “really” a Spanish speaker. More like creole backwoods Spanish and the patient has no education. Yeah it gets tough.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • parrot says:

            It is challenging, but that’s what makes it still interesting after all these years.

            The difficulty of the substandard language you describe is that there’s no way to prepare for it.

            I can compile and study glossaries in the forensic sciences and be ready to interpret with the terms of art on the tip of my tongue.

            But slang and spanglish terms and expressions change constantly and are used in closed circles. How do you prepare for that?

            The remedy is:

            “Your Honor, may the interpreter inquire the meaning of a term?

            In the event I’ve made a mistake: “Your Honor, the interpreter would like to correct the record. The correct interpretation of ABC should be XYZ.”

            I do some medical interpretation, but not extensively, so it is not my area of expertise. I would like to branch, out though.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Even out of focus you can see the grass on top of the toes of his boots.

    • EdgySF says:

      I bet he’s gotten a lot of fan mail from NRA chicks.

      Shellie probably knows he’d dump her for hottie

      • towerflower says:

        Edgy, Don’t even go down that road…..I’m a NRA Life member, have a concealed and can teach it, a woman, and I believe he is guilty as hell.

  30. evokid7 says:

    Fogen keeps that jacket button up now. To hide his expanding belly.

  31. whonoze says:

    Nakasone just screwed his own pooch by replying ‘Yes,’ to the State’s query as to whether he had ever disagreed with the majority of the scientific community.

    • ay2z says:

      Wasn’t able to listen to the state’s cross. Thanks for the clue in.

    • racerrodig says:

      So, 1 + 1 is 3 ??? Hmmmmm. I hope the check from “The O’ Moron Law Group” bounces…..and it causes all his other checks to bounce.

    • KittySP says:

      Not to mention, no matter the forum, there’s gonna be disagreements based on one’s personal opinions, preferences, or beliefs. That’s been seen on this forum many a times.

  32. evokid7 says:

    That doctor is lying, I think he speaks good english, but choose not to. I do the same thing everyday. I got my good voice and then my laid back voice and vocab. Every time the states ask a question he can understand or become confused.

    • gbrbsb says:

      I don’t know. IMO his difficulty pronouncing English could make him antipatico to a jury who IMO would probably prefer someone of their own tongue… not that I’m inferring racial prejudice here just I think most would take more note and find more “expert” if the person analysing a voice and utterances had English as their dominant language. But IMBW.

  33. gbrbsb says:

    Well Dr. N would say that wouldn’t he… his job could depend on it!

  34. A technical working group is a group of experts in a particular field who are appointed to a committee to study a particular issue or problem and issue a report about it.

    There are many technical working groups studying issues in forensic science.

    Their findings and conclusions are generally accorded considerable respect.

    Usually there is a majority and minority report and each member of the group may issue a separate report.

    The composition of any technical working group typically includes scientists who have been known to disagree.

  35. whonoze says:

    In my NAL estimation, the prosecution sufficiently countered Dr. Nakasone’s statement to meet the standards of admissibility.

    West’s new round of questions strike me as redundant, and a waste of the court’s time.

  36. Well, even if the scream analysis is denied (still testimony on this), there is still common sense…

  37. Dr. Nakasone:

    Direct by West

    I doubt that we (the scientific community) have developed a way to reliably compare a terrified shriek from someone stressed by impending death to a voice exemplar from a known individual under normal circumstances. Science is not there yet.

    The pitch not also changes in a scream like that, the muscles in the throat responsible for sound assume or get into new positions.

    After eliminating every part of the scream that is stepped on by other people speaking, the FBI was only able to isolate 3 seconds of the scream

    He believes this is insufficient to perform voice identification.

    • PYorck says:

      Doesn’t that strongly suggest that there are two voices in the background? Otherwise three seconds seems a bit short.

      • chi1224 says:

        The woman who called 911 and the 911 operator are in there too…. but still, I agree with prof L…. 3 seconds is enough. Other experts were able to work with it…. get this guy off the stand… NEXT!

    • ic2fools says:

      If I may add, adult developed vocal cords do not sound the same as undeveloped child/teenager vocal cords. I limit my comment to Trayvons’ vocal cords and Fogen vocal cords.

      Highest point of stress Fogen could not shriek or shrill to that high pitch decibel but Trayvon could.

    • Tzar says:

      it sounds like I have better ears than him
      without any machines I can tell with 100% certainty when the kid is screaming and I can even tell you some of the words he says.

      • parrot says:

        Several witness who were physically present and therefore heard the screams without the distortion of electronic devices agree Tzar, and say it was the boy who was screaming. Off the top of my head there was Mary Cutcher and Selma Mora as well as W18. Any others?

  38. Tzar says:

    lol the working group of Omara’s expert has been in existence for 1 week

    LMAO

    • KittySP says:

      Only met 1 or 2 times and certainly not to establish any documented P&Ps

    • ic2fools says:

      No cohesion not one bit.

      I believe Dr. N last minute analysis is boguhs hot air. rambling in circles about ‘human voice is unique’ for over an hour. leading nowhere.

  39. chi1224 says:

    Why is this FBI guy still on the stand? Since when does the FBI define what the courts accept? Since when is the FBI the “gold standard” of anything? They are people who work for the government…. big deal.

  40. Two sides to a story says:

    Oh my goodness – I was just gone for two hours – this is still going on . . . wowsers. I expected to watch from Trent’s channel.

  41. Michael Skolnik ‏@MichaelSkolnik 8m
    they just played 911 call in courtroom where u can hear screams for help. here is a photo of Zimmerman’s response –> http://bit.ly/14AAXCW
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

    • parrot says:

      No picture came up on the link. Just an article.

      • Basically, Zimmerman looked either 1) totally unphased or 2) heavily medicated.

        • ic2fools says:

          Unphased 3 sec Power nap, resting them blinky eyes, while attempting to numb his hearing from Trayvons’ screams begging for his life…….

          Did you see afterwards his lips tightened corners/edges curled downwards, sighed heavily — shows exhaustion to make person appear in demand of others’ attention and support. jmo

          no pun intended,not meant to be funny!

          • Yes, and I think the motion to hide witnesses behind a screen to prevent the invisible mob phenomenon was designed to further the image of being victim, prey, exhausted from all of the voluminous threats, and so on.

            All choreographed.

            Truth is, the Trayvon supporters have likely received the most in actual threats and abuse.

          • dianetrotter says:

            Threats against Trayvon’s family and AAs are all over social media, comments sections of news sites, and blogs. I have not seen such wide spread animus and vitriol from supporters of the Martin family.

          • I cannot recall seeing any. Granted, I do not visit the other sites hardly ever, but…I mean for real, why did he hire that really expensive security team he hasn’t paid. I’ll bet they were shaking their heads.

          • racerrodig says:

            I heard both of The New Black Panthers were busy and satisfied Fogen was arrested.

            So here it comes…..if I can’t have anonymous witnesses…..I’m not having any…..I’m taking my Bible and I’m going home.

            On the side…there was a point when Bernie was whipping that butt and Robbie the Racist was grinning like a lunatic…..Papa Z was about to cry…..but what the hell was with Robbie jr ??

          • Good points, although I do have to go to YouTube and watch, because I missed some.

          • cielo62 says:

            ic2fools~ gz was heavily medicated. It’s apparently the only way to keep him quiet. Well, medication AND lots of food!

            ________________________________

      • ic2fools says:

        Crane I currently am watching first parts of hearing I missed. My take on why Omar wants behind screen anonymity is those three witness are not residents but visitors of a resident who live in the general vicinity of the murder.

        Visitors’ who I believe were never there in the first place but are Fogen supporters a.k.a Killer Trollz paid to lie about the events. I smell durr-fense stinky setup that will be revealed during States’ cross.

        Better yet by Impaired West slower than molAssAss questioning. (snark intended).

        And White is a jealous, vindicitive hater, disgruntled ex-employee who should have notified Judge Debra first before Omar who by the way threw him under the bus when he was no longer of use.

        White is so blinded by his hatred for Bernie, his thought process and reasonsing became clear what he did was out of pure spite. Misleading Kruibos by misinforming him of his potential involvement. That was not Kruibos responsibility, he got clear and precise direction of what his job was.

        White only purpose was to have an inside track of happenings in Coreys’ offices and Bernies business. Used friendly kekeke conversations with BenK to get close, then twisting what info he got from that kid and his trust.

        Now BenK has lost a job and a bright future in his field, be blacklisted all because of White. He was terrified on that stand realizing he had been played and used by White for Whites’ nefarious purposes, loss of respect and any hopes of secure employment in his field with the government.

        Sorry so long….

      • dianetrotter says:

        Crane, high priced security did not shake their heads. They grinned and said, “CHA CHING!!!”

    • ic2fools says:

      look at number #7, same look Fogen had on Hannity. check out the description.

      http://www.nonverbal-world.com/2010/11/basic-emotional-expressions.html

      • Wow, that is remarkable. Enjoyed the rest of the link as well.

        • ic2fools says:

          Thank you. Its’ good to know non verbal communication.

          I watched a show inspired by the work of Paul Ekman, the world’s foremost expert on facial expressions and a professor emeritus of psychology at the University of California San Francisco School of Medicine. Dr. Ekman has served as an advisor to police departments and anti-terrorism groups (including the Transportation Security Administration) and acted as a scientific consultant in the production of the series. He is also the author of 15 books, including “Telling Lies” and “Emotions Revealed”.Lie To Me’ you would enjoy and learn from it.

          show info
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_to_Me

          hope you get a chance to view this.

  42. whonoze says:

    We are finally getting to the gist of his testimony, as to the Frye question.

  43. whonoze says:

    I would guess his assertion that any speech that has been stepped on must be disregarded will be challenged by the State’s experts.

    • gbrbsb says:

      IMO “I’m begging you” is only “stepped on” at the beginning of the utterance and even then it is still audible, and “stop” at the end just before the shot, iirc, is not “stepped on” at all, so no wonder the State would challenge it.

  44. KittySP says:

    well…and we just heard that the screams were of someone under extreme duress…GZ was found, during his exam of EMTs to be calm as a cucumber!

    • Rachael says:

      Excellent point!

    • EMT’s took Zimmerman’s vitals about 20 minutes after the shooting …

      Blood Pressure … NORMAL

      Temperature …NORMAL

      Pulse …NORMAL

    • ic2fools says:

      x4

      • racerrodig says:

        Count me in.

        • ic2fools says:

          🙂

          • ic2fools says:

            Lonnie, I predict mid way trial West going to give out from exhaustiont. Notice Omar has his interns closer than usual, readying to fill in.

            West truly does not seem to be ‘with it’ He sputtered and mustered up some gumpstion raised his one note voice only to loose his train of thought, when he thought he was onto ‘loop testimony, only to fizz out.

            This may very well be West last case presented in a Courtroom. Needless to say he should have retired long ago. Instead he’ll be suspended or barred for his recent actions.

            It will be interesting to know if he Bar will cut him slack because he is feeble minded.

            Honestly, West is not physically, mentally or emotionally sound to try a court case.

          • Xena says:

            @ic2fools. Yesterday when Bernie was cross-examining West, I was somewhat shocked that West made a personal attack rather than answer the question. Hmmm. Who do we see doing that? Zidiots. West’s behavior was very unprofessional. He can’t control his temper, which makes me think that he speaks in monotone as part of anger management.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… MOM is questioning Reich and you can see that he’s out of his depth. The defense team is sadly lacking sufficient wattage to get the defense bulb brighter than dim. Certainly not enough light to see by. They both need to retire after this and their interns need retraining sufficient wipe this episode from there minds.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            ^^^^^”their not there. Oh well.

      • ic2fools says:

        Xena, I missed that part I’ll check it out. Knowing how disrespectful West is to Judge Deborah does not surprise me.

        I seriously have come to the conclusion that West has passed his ability to be an effective trial lawyer.

        Not knocking his age at all, it is possible he is experiencing early states of dementia.

        Unable to control his cantankerous temperament, time lapse of thought process and repeating same question multiple times. Most lawyers do repeat same questions phrasing them differently.

        Could possibly be one of the other reasons why Judge Deborah gives him leeway and the fact defense cannot retaliate whining she is biased.

        Hey remember this?:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecA228wOjVE

        Omar needs to help West understand Judge Deborah ‘got the power’…….

        🙂

        • Xena says:

          @ic2fools.

          I seriously have come to the conclusion that West has passed his ability to be an effective trial lawyer.

          As I understand it, West and O’Mara have both handled criminal cases where they were able to lead their clients into plea bargains in exchange for reduced sentences or to avoid the death penalty. O’Mara is over his head and brought on West, who is now over his head.

          For one thing, neither knows how to handle public opinion. They should have never entertained any communications from White Supremacists. But then, there was the promise of making monetary donations, and O’Mara is like GZ’s guardian, responsible for providing him with food and toilet paper.

          West and O’Mara are not representing only GZ’s interests. They are also representing the interests of White Supremacists.

          Oh yeah — I remember the vid really well. It took me 3 days to find that music track with only the background words. LOL!!

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ Maybe they did think that a plea deal would be easy to swing. Little did they realize the real public interest and import of this case. In spite of what Malisha might postulate, the State has ZERO reason to offer a plea deal. They can nail gz and still leave the Sanford PD out of it. In fact, Serino might be pointed to as THE one who actually wanted to charge gz, so the SPD isn’t really at fault, huh? By the same reasoning, both Billy Lee and Wolfinger will no longer be fair game because BOTH are no longer in office. Anyway, my point is, the public furor is centered on gz, since he IS the murderer. The racism within the SPD will be “confronted” and maybe a few minor heads will roll or be demoted. There is no real “fire” to burn down the SPD, even though we have good reason to believe a cover-up by Billy Lee and Wolfinger was in the works. Once gz is convicted, the case will disappear, along with any embarrassing revelations about FL racism.

            ________________________________

          • Xena says:

            @cielo62.

            Xena~ Maybe they did think that a plea deal would be easy to swing. Little did they realize the real public interest and import of this case.

            In criminal cases, the cost to the State is often considered in plea agreements. Of course, the State can prove that GZ committed 2nd degree murder, or Corey would not have been so confident in that charge. Either way he looks at it, GZ’s life is over. If acquitted, he walks away homeless, unemployed, no assets, and a wife awaiting trial.

            In spite of what Malisha might postulate, the State has ZERO reason to offer a plea deal. They can nail gz and still leave the Sanford PD out of it.

            You might have noticed that I’ve not been one involved in discussion of corruption in the SPD. Any corruption in the SPD is to be handled by the feds and not at GZ’s trial. This is a case where an unarmed 17 year old was shot in the heart by a man who profiled him in the plural, took time to aim to shoot, and the lied about it. For me, that takes priority.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- I agree that convicting the murderer is the priority here. My point was directed more at Malisha, who believes a plea deal will be offered in order to avoid dealing with the SPD. I disagree.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Xena says:

            @cielo62.

            Xena- I agree that convicting the murderer is the priority here. My point was directed more at Malisha, who believes a plea deal will be offered in order to avoid dealing with the SPD. I disagree.

            I understand and agree because I see no correlation between a plea deal for GZ and investigating the SPD. The State handles the criminal case, and the feds handle investigation into the SPD. Two different jurisdictions.

      • ic2fools says:

        Every word you wrote is true! defense can not keep up the pace, Judge Deborah is ready to do the dam thang. court convenes 9:30am on a Saturday. West is not up to it in his obvious physical condition. Omar well Omar dam, he’ll begin throwing in the towel very soon.

        Fogen may as well put a sammich his jacket pocket and be ready to take the perp position. Baliff to his immediate right soon will say stand up and place your hands behind your back, placing cuffs on him escorting him to lockup

        Girl I thought that was your video, I absolutely love your channel. Hope you make more as the trial progresses, your work is exceptional.

        Well, trying to go to bed, before I do I’m changing my gravatar to ‘No Skeletor’ not to happy with this one.

        So see tomorrow. As faux says:

        Same Skeletor Time, same Skeletor Channell

        lol lol

        Rest well my dear friend….

        • Xena says:

          @ic2fools. Rest well. I’ll be up for awhile — trying to think of a good acronym for a video title that I’m putting together. 🙂

      • ic2fools says:

        Sorry I missed your comment before going to sleep.

        Xena, I had a few pop! Bear with me and please polish them up if they are usable.

        A phrase Reich wrote in his analysis and our Lonnies strong opinion of Fogens’ superiority speaking:

        1.) ‘These Shall Be’

        2.) Listening to 911 I realized the last ‘HELP’ followed by kill shot, is Fogen. Your can hear the deep adult male voice ‘HELLP’, it was very quick and short. This suggestion is only an idea

        3.) ‘My name is Gump, Fogen Gump’. (i can’t help this, gotta get my silly on’ Skrimp puddin’, Skrimp pie, Skrimp cake, Skrimp Taters’, Skrimp Latte’, Skrimp Beer, Ooooo Skrimp Skrimp….. lol lol lol

        4.) Then I look at his face during the proceedings at times I see pure shock on his face, disbelief this has gone this far. idea
        ‘If only…..’

        5.) ‘Believe In Magic’ –‘Fogen Tales’, or H.R. FogenPuf….

        We’re in for a long summer, hope my suggestions aren’t too corny or politically incorrect…

        • Xena says:

          @ic2fools. Thanks!! I like “Tales.”

          • ic2fools says:

            YW Xena, lol Fogen Tales lol thanks for asking, I enjoyed thinkin like that.

            You got video skillz, can’t wait to see your work. I may sit down one day an give it a whirl….

          • Xena says:

            @ic2fools.

            You got video skillz, can’t wait to see your work. I may sit down one day an give it a whirl….

            Oh — please do. I find it to be very interesting.

            Thanks again for the suggestions. Now, I have to do some flower garden work before it gets dark. 🙂

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            George FoggenPotter, hahaha… 😆

          • ic2fools says:

            thanks lonnie, big smile to you….

  45. lurker says:

    This seems like the kind of testimony that should be taking place during the trial–don’t see where it is focused on the validity, reliability or acceptance of methodology used by the state witnesses.

  46. evokid7 says:

    who is the old man in front of JR?

    • Xena says:

      @evokid7. He’s at every hearing and wears a badge on an lanyard. I think he might be a sheriff assigned to the courtroom to escort GZ in and out of the building, to the washroom, etc.

  47. gbrbsb says:

    Why has GZ never once said he said anything else other than “help” or “help me”. Why did he reply to Serino, ” It doesn’t EVEN sound like me”, i.e. what did he mean when qualifying it with “EVEN”, what else was there that didn’t remind him of himself… could it have been he didn’t recognize the words either? Did he not recognise even saying, “I’m begging you”? Or “Stop”?

    • ic2fools says:

      I would like to know what Fogen meant by ‘These shall be’

      • gbrbsb says:

        I never heard that so I have no idea, I think it was Tchoupi on Whonoze’s blog that had heard something like that but not the same, albeit his did have more sense to it. I absolutely do hear “I’m begging you” and “stop” from before Reich’s analysis so I am as sure as I can be on that. Of course I don’t know, but when Serino replayed the tape for GZ, I would have expected him to say things like, “OMG, it doesn’t sound like me but yes, I was screaming, begging, begging him to stop”, etc. but not one on his side, so to speak, has ever said he yelled/called out/shouted/ etc. anything other than “help” or “help me”, and that makes me think he never said anything other than that and Trayvon’s are the screams you hear above that.

      • ic2fools says:

        Alan Reich wrote he heard Fogen say ‘These shall be’ in his letter. I’ll find the link, Professor also wrote about Reich letter.
        I’ll be back a bit later to post it for you.

      • ic2fools says:

        @gbrbsb

        I found a link for Alan Reich analysis of the 911 call where he hears Fogen say ‘These Shall Be’:

        For example, approximately one second after the start of CALL3, Mr.

        Zimmerman makes a seeminly religious proclamation, “These shall be.”

        His speech is characterized by the low pitch and exaggerated pitch

        contour reminiscent of an evangelical preacher or carnival barker. The

        statement is challenging for the untrained listener to detect as it

        occurs simultaneously with Trayvon Martin’s loud, high-pitched,

        distressed, and tremulous “I’m begging you.” and the 911 Dispatcher’s

        “Nine-one-one.”

        http://zimmerman-vs-martin.blogspot.com/2013/05/text-version-alan-r-reich-phd-acoustic.html

        you’ll find it mid way down….

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Aha… “These shall be…” Your last moments of life!

          It’s what was on gz’s mind: “You’re going to die tonight”, was gz’s mirror image translation, used to put his own words into Trayvon’s mouth! Solved!

          Remember, they encountered each other as much as a minute 10 seconds earlier, before the 911 call began. Thus, if after almost a full minute of proximity, gz can even think of uttering a statement like that, he has positively no fear at all. He’s even still speaking from the superior place more than a minute after making physical contact with Trayvon.

          That should not be the case!

          Remember, again, more than one minute ago, gz is claiming Trayvon’s lethal attack began against “helpless me!”

          Thus, his story goes: After a full minute or more of suffering an attack that was bringing him to the edge of mortality, he says “These shall be…”, and 45 seconds later he ends Trayvon’s life!

          It’s the time line again! One minute and several seconds into the encounter, gz is still displaying his own superiority!

      • ic2fools says:

        Lonnie–

        Aha… “These shall be…” Your last moments of life!

        It’s what was on gz’s mind: “You’re going to die tonight”, was gz’s mirror image translation

        Also “These shall be your last screams or something to that effect.

        I understand now, further shows how he was/is of depraved mind. Those were some cold blooded words to say to a child while branshing a gun and restraining him.

        Fogen will be screaming ‘I’m begging you’ when he is locked up with real men that will be intimately physicially with him. Then they will call him ‘fuckin punk’ (excuse me)

    • I think serino told him they got him recorded on tape before he played it for gz. and maybe gz assumed it was right AFTER he killed Trayvon. so when he heard Trayvon’s voice he actually was totally surprised they caught that!

      • gbrbsb says:

        Never heard they told him they had him on tape, but IMO he didn’t recognize the voice and/or words because what was recorded was the stronger voice, i.e. Trayvon’s screaming, and not his voice calling out “help me” which is softer and underneath Trayvon’s.

    • KittySP says:

      Serino made that statement because he observed GZs non emotional response to the replaying of those horrific screams…who among us, after having experienced the events GZ claimed happened would have been able to listen to that call and not have responded emotionally? it didn’t EVEN sound like him cause it wasn’t him. POINT, BLANK, PERIOD!

      • Xena says:

        @KittySP. GZ said why he yelling for help, and at no time did he say it was because he was in fear for his life.

  48. whonoze says:

    State should be objecting to the playing of the recording unless the technical provenance is specified. I.e., is this in the same format as recorded by the 911 system, a direct digital copy, or has it been transcoded and/or compressed?

  49. Court will not consider sanctions until post-trial, got that (expected).

  50. disappointed says:

    If this keeps going on (forever) didn’t JN say they would work Saturdays? Just curious if I should cancel plans because defense is stalling.

  51. Ty Flair says:

    @Whonoze you will have to break down what this expert is talking about,you know about stuff like this I’m so dam lost what he is saying.

  52. Nef05 says:

    I knew it. HLN is taking the soundbite ofWest laughing and telling BDLR “We caught you…” and nothing else from this morning.

    No examples of BDLR showing White to be a shitstarting, grudge holding, 15 minutes seeking, disgruntled ex-employee OR the dim as a 5watt bulb IT guy who breached confidentiality to leak information to the defense that they already had.

  53. Note: The accreditation board is NOT federal, is is crime lab directors (guarding the chicken house)

    ASCLAD/LAB

  54. Time to get myself a little snack of canteloupe and strawberries. I’m bored to tears.

  55. colin black says:

    Basicly he is saying when a person is in a life or death srugggle an shrieking a issureing blood curling yells screams for his life.

    Unless they have similar circumstse sample then its easy peasy.

    But if all they have normal teenage chit chat
    Laughing an jokeing with peers an normall telrphone voice recordings

    Its difficult to analise the two differibg types of voice even from same person.

    As lets face it your only going to be stalked terrorised hunted down grabbed an threateded with death an shrieking in ssheer terror an then executed an murdered once in your short 16 year 3 week existence.

    • racerrodig says:

      Missed ya….welcome back !!

    • Malisha says:

      Welcome back! I believe O’Mara wanted to put BDLR on the stand but that didn’t work. I think he’s gonna make an emergency motion to depose Judge Nelson. If she wants to evade her responsibilities to submit to his cross-examination, she’ll have to bring a note from her mother.

    • Nef05 says:

      Great. Glad you’re back. Can’t wait to hear your and C-S’s impressions of this mess.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Glad you are safe.

  56. We’re back, will take a few to see what happened, thanks for your patience, everyone!

    • Okay, witnesses can’t wear white sheets in the courtroom, I mean be anonymous, got that.

      Voice analysis witness now, I take it.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Welcome home, you were missed, the professor was missed also! 🙂

      • racerrodig says:

        If our witnesses can’t be anonymous, then they won’t testify. My concern your honor is those New Black Panthers, yes, I know there are only 2, and yes your honor, they live 2,000 miles away, but you saw me wipe my face, er, that tear last night because of all the emotion stirred up.

      • Nef05 says:

        O’Mara tried to call BDLR to the stand. LMAO – can’t wait ’til you get to that part. 😀

        • Xena says:

          @Nef05.

          O’Mara tried to call BDLR to the stand. LMAO – can’t wait ’til you get to that part. 😀

          At that point, O’Mara told the court that he lacked evidence to support his motion. He already presented his witnesses and BDLR took them to school. If O’Mara’s last resort was to call Bernie as a witness, then he not only failed to prove his motion but also violated rules because who was going to cross Bernie?

    • Xena says:

      Glad to hear that your trip was safe.

      The same witness has been on the stand since about 2 and a half hours.

    • ic2fools says:

      Yay happy to hear ya’ll are back safe and sound. Hope you didn’t have to ride through rain.

  57. ic2fools says:

    Skelator Seriously get to the dam point. You know good and well you don’t understand what the expert is talking about.

    You’ve asked the same question for the past five minutes, and the expert keeps getting more technical on your dum azz.

    PLEASE LET THE POOR MAN OFF THE STAND….Skelator questioning is going no where

  58. Xena says:

    Watch it George. Don’t break the chair.

  59. colin black says:

    Excuse me for being a dumbkoff
    An I know this wittnes has been affiliated with F B I
    Either now or in past but w t f

    An I mean who the flucks wittnes is he?

    STATE or Defence Im leaning towards defence for some reason or whom ever has the deepest pockets
    ie wittnes will say for pay.

    • Malisha says:

      This witness never made any analysis of the tapes, right? So he is testifying only about methodologies. He sounds like a professor of voice recognition technology.

      The FBI was not trying to find out exactly who said what to whom on the tapes; they were trying to find out if there was evidence on those tapes of either a hate crime or of a state agency denying civil rights to a victim of a crime. So whether they heard Fogen say “These shall be” and heard Trayvon Martin scream or whether they heard Fogen say “fucking coons” or “fucking punks” — the purpose of their investigation would guide what they used to do their investigation. As this witness says, there are various levels of analysis:

      speech recognition
      speaker recognition
      content recognition
      language recognition
      etc.

      If the question is: “Who said ‘you’re gonna die tonight motherfucker’?” you get one kid of analysis going on that is most appropriate to answer that question. If, on the other hand, the question is: “What did he say: ‘You’re gonna die tonight motherfucker!’ or ‘please, I’m begging you, don’t shoot!’?” then there’s another method that might be more appropriate and might get closer to giving an accurate answer.

      Using the spectrographic method coupled with aural identification by the analyst, I think it’s going to be pretty clear that the prosecution witness can testify beyond a reasonable doubt, using methods that are recognized as generally acceptable within the field, that Trayvon Martin called out for help, begged Fogen to spare his life, screamed in terror and agony, and fell silent when he was shot in the heart.

  60. lurker says:

    O’Mara and West shouldn’t have wasted all that time with their sanctions sideshow. This guy is a rebuttal witness going out of order because he’s from out of town and has to leave. And it’s going to be pretty hard to recall back to what he has to say AFTER the prosecution presents their witnesses (tomorrow).

    • crazy1946 says:

      BDLR should have objected to the change of order for the witness, it wasn’t costing the state anything only the blood suckers were on the hook for the expense! This is just another ploy by MOM to force the delay of the trial…..

      • truthseeker66 says:

        BDLR is to complying. He needs to be more of a hard ass. MOM is an unethical POS.

      • whonoze says:

        Assuming the State has done its homework, they would know pretty much what Dr. N. is going to say. If they let him go first, I would guess they are prepared to counter him on cross.

        IANAL, but I still don’t see anything in his testimony that goes to admissibility. However, he might be a formidable rebuttal witness at trial. He seems to know what he’s talking about. I would assume the argument will be that his standards are too conservative, and the State will argue that their experts’ conclusions have a measure of validity even if they don’t meet Nakasone’s criteria.

        • crazy1946 says:

          I somewhat agree, however it is difficult to follow his line of reasoning without having heard the other experts first… It seems as if he is giving a blanket denial of the validity of any technique that does not meet his standards. Too bad we live in an imperfect world that often does not conform to the standards that the experts wish to impose…. IMO!

  61. racerrodig says:

    820 + posts !!!! it’s 3:47 !!

  62. elcymoo says:

    Listening to the exchange between West and Dr. Nakasone brings back memories of poor Marcia Clark spending all that time having to painstakingly explain the relatively new science of DNA/rNA to the jurors in O.J. Simpson’s trial. She completely lost most of them and the home audience as well.

  63. ay2z says:

    He is speaking theory, content, little bit about the speaker himself, and the surroundings. Yeah, it’s going to be extremely difficult to identify differences between foge’s recorded voice exemplar from the breaking pitches of the screams that indicate a young male with immature physical changes vs fully mature male.

    Analogy– doesn’t mean you can’t group peaks for general identification of qualities of differences between speakers, adult, immature, projection, emotion, or whatever else.

    Forest of the spectrogram peaks, for the individual trees, tree species.

  64. colin black says:

    Wheres yoko ono whe uou need her @ Living in the Dakotal buidning.
    Not one flat but an entire foor 26 aparttments turned into one giant Flat
    Worth about retater price 78 millions in real assitale

    This biggest most exencive residene over b looking central park.
    Contains about five time as much priceless beatles stuff unheard demos art works rembrants piccaso the with grand PIANO

    tHERS PROBALY A LEAST 100 MILLION WORTH OF POSSESIONS CONSRVITIVE ESTIMIT.E.

    Boy those Asians know how to balance a check book Afro Peruvians not so much

    Olve you all
    Even the trolls
    Becase no matter hoe down I may feeal

    Whenever I Read your stupid justificatins
    It sends ne soaring when we re dealing with coupin clip buttscratchin an then finger bikteing there nails
    Because theve run out of dry roasted peanuts
    Infact some preger the fecies flavoured toe nails to dry roasted nuts as they both tate of excreatment.

    PS the only thing foggages speech carries from whatever distance is self serveing lies

  65. Malisha says:

    And uh, you have to also allow for the fact that an individual will use his common sense, and when he is listening to something that he believes to be an individual speaking, he will apply certain logical tests to what he is hearing, such as: “Will a guy scream like bloody murder when he is aiming and pulling the trigger of a loaded gun? Or will a kid scream like that when he sees that a stranger who has chased him down and cursed him is now aiming a gun at his heart?” Hmmmm… I wonder. Somebody go stay at Holiday Inn and hurry back here to tell me.

  66. KittySP says:

    He looks as if he’s ready to jump up and blurt out…”it was the kid screaming”…

  67. Nef05 says:

    Was it Owen or Primeau who used aural recogniton? It sounds like this guy is sayin that is an acceptabe method. If so, that’s one prosecution audio expert, who excluded Zimmerman, who it appears satisfies the Frye test.

  68. Leisa says:

    So this new group is saying experts should no longer be able to testify using the methods that have been in place and used in courts for years?

  69. towerflower says:

    I wish fogen would quit looking into the camera, it freaks me out.

  70. KittySP says:

    right?! well at least helps me focus on getting my work done for paying job.

  71. Patricia J-C says:

    Is it just me, or do GZ’s eyes look “blacker” today than the night the police took pictures after the supposed “self-defense” shooting of TM?

  72. Nef05 says:

    Jeez, I can just hear Trent’s comments in my head, about West’s inability to GET ON WITH IT! You know he has somehting to say about it. 😀

  73. Big Willie says:

    No disrespect to the good doctor, but…. all the SLOW talking between the doc and West is about to drive me crazy!

    • rayvenwolf says:

      In regards to the doc I am pretty sure it has to do with his accent more than anything. At a normal or above normal talking pace everyone but the court reporter might have trouble keeping up. Fogen certainly would.

      BTDT and still have moments of it at work having to slow myself down when repeating the same old frozen yogurt spiel. Born and raise in vegas with a touch of southern accent under the west coast. So currently living in maine, I know good and well when I get rolling people loose track of what I am saying.

  74. “Real good knowledge” Is that a technical term?

  75. Only most of the members were selected carefully. The rest were drawn out of a hat.

  76. What is this? The expert gets to ask himself questions and then answer them?

  77. chi1224 says:

    So they are using a scientific audio expert to debunk the science of audio analysis?
    I’d like to add that not all epxerts work for the FBI. Just because an expert for the FBI isn’t successful doesn’t mean an expert in private practice won’t be… many people don’t want to work for the FBI, for good reason.

    • Dave says:

      My God! This guy talks as slowly than West himself. They’re just running down the clock.

      • Big Willie says:

        Ha ha, you posted at the same time as me, regarding the slllllllllllllloooooooooooooooowww talking.

      • SearchingMind says:

        I like the doc. He is calm, collected, very articulate, precise and to the point. Not someone to be ruffled easily (and certainly not by someone of West’s caliber).

        • parrot says:

          I do to, Searching. However, I wish the questions elicited more specific and focused testimony relevant to the recordings in this case.

    • whonoze says:

      Not debunk the whole field. They want to use him to distinguish between audio analysis methods that are well accepted in the field, and produce results considered “robust” within the research community, and methods that are more controversial, and produce findings considered “fragile” as Dr. Nakasone used the term earlier.

      They haven’t gotten to any substance yet, (listening to this is like watching paint dry), but I can’t see how his testimony would go to admissibility rather than weight. But, perhaps we’ll see (or rather hear)… If we all can stay awake…

      • fauxmccoy says:

        yes, it’s like watching paint dry — being in california, i stayed up all night so as not to miss the 6 AM starting bell. i think this might just send me to nappy time.

    • towerflower says:

      That can be looked at in many ways. Some working for the government do so because it’s the federal government…..no higher LE than the FBI. A federal attorney might be there for the love of it and some might be there for the safety. Some do it for the safety; steady paycheck, good retirement benefits.

      Me, I did it because the federal government was the only employer for my career…..air traffic controller.

  78. evokid7 says:

    THAT LAW GRADE– WHATEVER LOOKS BEYOND DAMN SLOPPY, The white shirt looks dull and dirty and his suit obviously has not been iron or pressed or starched. And I should know cause I rarely iron. I just throw it into the dryer for a minute. But I be damn if I throw my suit in there. Fogen’s team; sloppy appearance, sloppy lawyer, sloppy lies and excuses, just plain ole’ sloppy seconds.

    • Rachael says:

      It’s because they’ve been working so hard and long into the night. LOL

      • evokid7 says:

        I don’t think so. I have my “good” clothes and then my “GOOD” clothes. I am a law student now. I wouldn’t dare go out the house looking like that, or TV. LOL And I don’t know how to iron, but I do know how to dry clean. 🙂 but good point though

      • Rachael says:

        It was supposed to be sarcastic. LOL

  79. ummm, we need Proff here to analyze WTF these two clowns are doing like he usually does!!
    I’m not really getting how serious these accusations are!

    But hello???
    how can this * voice recognition* expert talk about speech!???

    he’s talkin about North Carrorina!! WTF??LMFAO

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      He has an excellent English vocabulary. He probably also has a good ear for language.

      It is very hard for many people who never formed an “L” sound in their native language to say it properly later in life. Let’s respect our fellow citizens who have immigrated from other countries and have enriched the cultural heritage of our country.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, let’s not sound like the Treestump here. THey constantly make fun of BEV, what they call Ebonics . . . if it’s not out and out racist, it borders on it to make fun of someone’s accent.

  80. colin black says:

    I just heard a guitar strum a g chord anyone else.?

    • Xena says:

      @colin black. I heard it too — think it was West’s laptop booting up.

      • ic2fools says:

        @Xena lol that was Skelators’ matin’ call….

        • Xena says:

          LOL@ic2fools.

          • ic2fools says:

            @Xena TaaaDaa!!

            I was out at drs. I’m reading Kruidbos was side blinded by White.

            B4 I left it was plain as day White is a jealous hater of our Beloved Bernie. Whom by the way let him know a thing or two, delicately. Left white lookin like the hatin fool he is. Using Ben trying to take down Angela and Bernie. terrible person

          • ic2fools says:

            look at dum azz west, stuck on stupid. can’t even get a though process quick enough to ask….

            whew too funny, face dried up in sucked in like a crackhead….

    • ic2fools says:

      Yes, first thing I heard though something was wrong witth my ‘puter.

      jus got in from drs…..

    • ay2z says:

      you are not imagining things, was the new law grad’s computer, he should have had his speakers off.

      Would have been better had this been a Knopfler or Rea lick.

      • looolooo says:

        Cool! Another Chris Rea fan! Knopfler too of course, but Chris is VERY underrated. And healthy these days. 🙂

  81. amsterdam1234 says:

    Just picked myself up from the floor. Go on.

  82. colin black says:

    That’s Lee in disguise working for oranges again

    PS Can you study for a bacholars degree if your a married man?

    • ay2z says:

      Kinda think a Japanese person might not want to be confused with a Chinese person. There is something in the culture of Japan, that is called xenophobia, and I don’t offer this as gai jin opinion, but from teachings Japanese profs themselves, in a Japanese university setting about their own cultural attitudes historically.

  83. chi1224 says:

    No offense but it would be nice if the voice of the voice expert was easier to understand… just saying

  84. colin black says:

    trying to catch up comments
    B T W

    When to we ger to hearabout all the alleged ebony male homsexuall porn retrieved from foggagges blackberry ect
    Or was that un unfounded rumour.

    If its true brings an entire new meaning to foggage turning over Trayvon preading his arms an mounting him?

    • truthseeker66 says:

      you STOP IT !!!! hahahhaha1

    • towerflower says:

      Colin, I looked into that and it was nothing but an internet rumor that started on a fake newspaper front page made to appear like it was a local Sanford paper. I put it into the same category as TM beating up a bus driver, nothing but internet rumor.

      • towerflower says:

        Here is the fake site, for those interested in where it started…..

        http://sanforddailynews.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/george-zimmerman-investigators-startling-motive-for-shooting-trayvon-martin/

        I think the key should’ve been the web address being a blog, not to mention it’s the only entry.

      • evokid7 says:

        I don’t care what nobody thinks. I get a feeling that both zimmermans have rubbed their peter whackers together as the child of TWO gay parents I can say for sure, I know a d*** sucker when I see one. and furthermore because I don’t care even if my brother or anyone was justified in killing someone. I would not ever in my-life feel comfortable dealing with them or being around them. Because I think, fee and know every-time I see their hands or eyes, that they choose to take a human life. It is unnatural killing another person.

    • cielo62 says:

      Colin~ you are a BAD boy!! That was the LAST time gz lent his phpone to Jr.!

      ________________________________

  85. towerflower says:

    starting again

  86. truthseeker66 says:

    why did JN not rule against defense. She knows it’s BS why postpone it?

  87. groans says:

    OK, they’re back now!

  88. gbrbsb says:

    And ten turned into 20… and still counting

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Yeah, I took a break to mow the lawn and thought I would be back here late!

  89. colin black says:

    Just got in whassssoooooopppppppppppp

  90. groans says:

    Are they back in court yet?

  91. groans says:

    MOM was really STUPID to spill the beans about his plan to use the sanctions issue as a reason to ask for a continuance AGAIN!

    (I think he said that when questioning West?)

    Judge caught it, too. That is NOT the relief he asked for in his motion for sanctions – and he just does not seem able to comprehend: Trial begins on June 10!

  92. towerflower says:

    if anyone has connection/sound problems, I suggest a free app that has a live feed from channel 6. It was the only Zimmerman app in the apple store. I watch the live feed on my IPad and follow here on my computer. So far I haven’t had any issues with sound and there are no commercials.

  93. bettykath says:

    The bad part of cutting it off is that MOM still has just his side of the story for the press conference. BDLR had a witness that might have cleared things up a bit.

    I was impressed by West’s manner of presentation, at least much more than what I’d seen previously.

  94. Woow! says:

    Oowee I can hardly wait to read the professor’s thoughts and summary of this hotmess hearing.

    • ay2z says:

      I think Prof and Crane should just turn off computers this evening and enjoy their away time.

      The media’s reporting is skewed, such as cfnews headling of this morning, saying IT worker found previously ‘unreleased’ photos. Do these reporters not pay attention?

      He didn’t say that, he suspected, he alledged, he assumed, and then instead of calling Bernie or Bernie’s boss, he called Wes.

      • Woow! says:

        I feel sorry for the IT Director. He had no idea what he had stumbled into. His own attorney slung him under a train. Did you see the look on his face when Bernie said …”you attorney testified earlier that he had not …”. Bernie then went to something else after telling the judge its in the transcript meaning IT guy can go back and see for himself how his attorney did him.

      • ay2z says:

        Bet he diescovered what he stepped into when he was questioned about the ‘leaks’ to a blog that he was one of two people set in the investigators sights, or in this case ‘sites’.

  95. KittySP says:

    said it once, will say it again…watching MOM and West in court reminds me of the scene in Django when Big Daddy and his band of bumbling horseman couldn’t see their way in the dark through the holes cut out in their white hoods…IDIOTS!

  96. Leisa says:

    I hope that Jr. Will not be sitting in his current seat for trial. I don’t think I can stand to look at his face every day. It’s bad enough to have to listen to Mom’s nails on a chalkboard voice. Makes me cringe.

  97. KittySP says:

    you got witness waiting around to testify…and you waisting time with this tomfoolery! aint nobody got time for dat!

  98. crazy1946 says:

    Did anyone else notice they cut the mic’s off this time? Darn, miss out on all the good stuff when they do that! Poor MOM, he just got handed his own head on a platter and does not ever recognize it! Fogen is going to wear out that legal tablet he keeps writing demands of MOM on!!!

  99. KA says:

    HLN “expert” attorneys are horrible.

    They obviously did not watch this hearing this AM…

    • ay2z says:

      They are good examples of lawyers who just ass speak, they don’t do the most basic research before going on their entertainment shows with flashy magic side falling mystery boxes that bring a sense of showbiz to the serious topic, complete with ‘stringers’ that evoke a feeling of suspense. Sad.

    • Leisa says:

      That is why I don’t watch on tv. They are not paying attention to the things going on in court and you miss more than you see. Thank goodness for computers.

    • Tzar says:

      your fault for watching them after seeing that reenactment (and leatherman related article)

  100. Nef05 says:

    I understand why she did it, but I wish she had waited until after he FDLE IT guy had testified. Now, the soundbite eveyone will televise is West’s little laugh and “We CAUGHT you…”, without the rebuttal of the FDLE guy to refute it. And they won’t hear anything to refute it until AFTER the trial, and jury selection starts Monday.

    • I almost worried about that, but then I remembered what’s been going on in the media lately. I don’t think the trial is gonna get as much press as trunk mom did, but they will show some.. and it looks to me that the media has turned on the defense pretty publicly. I think it happened when they let out all those things around the last hearing. i think they didn’t like that kinda smearing the victim..and omar did it using such benign examples practically ‘every-teenager-done-it’ type stuff like smoking pot- But THEY called it DRUGS, as if Trayvon’s pics of sprouts were actually just the tip of his deep dark drug life of crime, because every parent would agree, if their kids get’s caught smoking pot, it’s fine with them to shot him on the spot!!!

      i just think i see a shift in peoples minds. they seem to have gotten more sympathetic to Trayvon, and offended that he is being attacked by the defense.

  101. whonoze says:

    MOM is showing he’s making no attempt to stay on Nelson’s good side. I have to conclude he’s looking beyond the trial — which he certainly must expect to lose at this point — and trying to set up grounds for an appeal.

    • ay2z says:

      Yes. He’s got one strike against her ruling on the depo of Ben issue, the extremely ‘limited’ depo on Ben, that is.

      He’s chalking everything up and trying to put down any attempt at the ‘race’ implications, while he’s planning a full on attack of the politics of the case post trial. Jr. will do his part and take care of the female lawyer, so he thinks.

  102. groans says:

    A whole morning-plus, wasted on a bunch of junk that can’t even be authenticated and has no chance of becoming admissible evidence for that and several other reasons!

    Those defense clowns don’t know how to prioritize their work or anything else – they never have known.

  103. Big Willie says:

    Finally! JN went Nino Brown on Omar. “sit your five dollar ass down before I make change!”. Booyah!!!

  104. Ty Flair says:

    So what do post trail mean,to finish this issue.

  105. LeaNder says:

    I didn’t get that. Will the continue today. Is there another recession. Did anyone understand how long it will take?

    • whonoze says:

      They’re coming back in a few minutes to do the Frye hearing.

      • LeaNder says:

        good to see you over here. Now it get’s interesting. Not that it wasn’t so far. Bernie is really, really good.

        Have to get myself a tea and a yoghurt now.

    • willisnewton says:

      Ten minute recess then onto the Grue hearing.

      • LeaNder says:

        thanks, willis. I realized it must show up on Twitter.
        I see we have a rare guest here, at least haven’t seen him quite some time over here. Know knows who that may be? 😉

    • LeaNder says:

      Ok, 10 minutes. Interesting stage act so far. 😉

    • groans says:

      They’re dropping this sanction nonsense, and will return to it after the trial is over. They’re moving on to the Frye hearing, so that the court and parties are ready for trial to start on Monday.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Ten minute break and then they’ll move on to the Frye hearing. Nelson just said stop wasting the courts time trying to get money out of the State. You can try again after the trial has been concluded.

    • and yes, we’re having another recession. I think march of 2028 🙂

      • whonoze says:

        You know LeaNder’s not a native speaker of English, right?

      • LeaNder says:

        Whonoze, that’s exactly why I love people like shannon pointing out these mistakes to me. Recession is what? I see it’s that simply it’s Rezesssion in German. 😉

        And if the judge leaves the courtroom and takes a break it’s what?

      • LeaNder says:

        OK, it’s Rezession the only difference is the c. No three ss’s.

        • yes i know you’re german that’s why i laughed!
          still funny 🙂

          so recess is when they take a break in court or when kindergarteners go play for a half hour..

          recession is the economic disaster we barely survived thru.

          • LeaNder says:

            I was pretty close, you have to admit. 😉

            And since I had earphones on, I could hear the hearing started again at exactly the time I was starting a comment. See, I have a little excuse too. 😉

            Please always do this, especially when you think it is funny. Rezession in German means the same as the English word, by the way. It works sometimes, but it does not always. E.g. with the word sympathy it does not.

            Thanks for pointing this out. Very helpful. I wasn’t familiar with the word recess I guess. I am now with your help.

          • parrot says:

            LeaNder,
            I wish my French and Italian were half as good as your English.

          • LeaNder says:

            parrot, English was always my favorite language. Initially that may well have been connected with music. Our own was horribly boring when I was a teen. It also always remained my favorite in spite of the fact that my arch enemy was my director and English teacher in high school and in the last two years I shifted to physics for exactly that reason.

            I am pretty sure that my Italian and French may be worse than yours. Especially using it, takes usually a couple of days in holidays to get the vocabulary up to the surface for longer exchanges beyond simple questions or answers. The problem is I am using neither of those very much. And I rarely read in those languages too. That makes all the difference.

          • every one I know in my family ( mom’s side) is german. so i’m used to the language nuances, I find it endearing really 🙂 though I spoke much better german as a kid ( when my mom was alive) now I depend on the similarities between the languages the most. It’s kinda easy for me to spot a german’s writings in English- most of the time! I think it’s my secret super powers.
            I think it comes from my ex who did an international MBA ( obvious in English ) I edited so many papers for him I think he owes me half his earnings 🙂

            oh and I know you are a stickler for detail, 100% fact orientated.. I know you have to have the unvarnished truth and data before you can even begin to analyze it! and damn you’re good!! lol I wish I was like you- ein bisschen etwas!

            btw. I’m not positive but I believe you’re in Cologne? my mom’s from Viersen ( kinda Monchengladbach/Düsseldorf area ) i miss my times there..i don’t have the money nor the people i used to have to visit anymore. it’s not like the kind of place i’d go for a vacation with my six y.o, w/o friends or family to hang with… now i’m melancholy = same thing in german too..might not be spelled the same. 😦

          • LeaNder says:

            Yes, Shannon, I am in Cologne. Viersen is slightly North West close to the Netherlands. Melancholy is the same word simply “ie” in the end instead of “y”. Basically most of the words with either Greek or Latin roots are similar. Sympathy is one of the exceptions, it doesn’t have a trace of compassion in German. It’s simply liking someone. I could say someone is “sympathisch” meaning likeable.

            Concerning stickler to detail, I was surprised when I got that feedback from two members of a study group in university the first time. But there is a gain of truth to it, I guess.

            I guess I have slightly recovered from my shock concerning West. Looked at closer he does not listen but simply tries to repeat his talking points.

            An American once tried to tells me that is all it is about, if you want to win a debate. Something he was taught in Harvard, he wrote. I don’t remember how exactly he put it at the moment, but vividly remember that debates with him were very pretty repetitive and boring as a result most of the time.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Leander,

            Strictly speaking, “in recess” is the precise term to use for legislative and judicial proceedings. They don’t “take a break” or “time out” or “go to lunch;” they “recess” (verb). It’s the formal term, always used.

            Recess in schools is play-time (time away from classroom work).

            Recess in architecture is a niche area (a pulled-back area).

            Recession in economics is a “pulling back” in the economy (opposite to a “boom.”)

            You Latin professor would quote the verb “cedere” as “to go.” We proceed when we go forward; we march in a procession; we recede when we pull back. Same root applies to “legal proceedings.” That describes what went forward in the courtroom.

            Thanks for the German word. I could tell you had figured this out.

          • LeaNder says:

            So you covered the whole world field for me, Piranha. Recede – recess it a good memory help, yes and cedere may help too. That’s more yield or withdraw or give way. Maybe my by now vague memories of Caesar’s De Bello Gallico would help explain why recede initially had a military ring for me. 😉

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Leander,

            Your reference to recede as a military term shows you have an acute grasp of military reports: “retreat” = abject abandonment of the military objective (worst); “withdrawal” would only be coupled with “strategic” (but needs to be linked to the statement of the new strategy); and “recede” is a subtle withdrawal indicating “Of a transient nature.” Recede is used by the military as non-culpable in that they expect to retake the ground they lost.

            Of course, there are few ground wars anymore; not since the Korean Conflict. VietNam was a guerilla campaign; long and grinding with no effective ground attainment aim. This “progress” under McNamara was measured by “kills,” a number often inflated and never able to be substantiated.

            Alas, in the Iraq War, Bush could only ask “how man killed?” The professional military were appalled. That question lost all military relevance 40 years ago. Forever.

            The sea “recedes” with the tide … but it always comes back again.

            Thus a courtroom or legislative “recess” indicates “we’ll be back at the stated time, on the same track.”

          • LeaNder says:

            I don’t really have much knowledge in military terms, apart from the fact that I had to read Caesar in school. But the way you define recede in that context is exactly how I remember he used cedere, as ruse, a trick, only seemingly yielding, seemingly withdrawing. I hated Caesar to be quite honest, it’s so self-celebatory. But the WOT raised my interest in this topic again.

            This was a bad day, although hardly anyone here will agree with me. I had this feeling since I read Nakasone’s report.

            Now that I heard Trayvon’s voice I am more than ever convinced that it was him screaming. It’s a lot closer to the scream.

            I thought from early on they would challenge this with science. declare it not determinable following Nakasone. Makes me pretty melancholic really. So we have the tape but it does not really help much in spite of the horrible little yelps of the reenactment.

            Owen’s trick to multiply the same sampling several times, really makes sense to me on the surface.

            It’s really strange, in this context it feels I may well be on the other side in these type of arguments, only not in Fogen’s case, I have to admit.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Leander,

            The only purpose of the Frye Hearing is whether there are established methods – not which one – to allow forensic experts to testify.

            Judge Nelson narrowly interprets.

            Judge Nelson also gives wide latitude to the defense, such as not ordering a gag order so far. She “gave” that to the defense – and DE-fueled any attempt to appeal the verdict because of her “prejudice.” Smart move by JN,

            Thus I believe she will have no trouble certifying the audio experts, which the prosecution wants.

            You may recall that JN shuts herself off entirely from the media – no TV, no newspapers, no internet, no blogs, no Public Radio ..

            Astoundingly, the defense insisted on playing the blood-curdling 911 tape, from which I expect she had hermetically concealed herself.

            It is so riveting, so excruciating to hear, that I believe it MUST have had an emotional impact on the Judge.

            She will not permit it to go unheard by the jury, nor unexamined by the experts.

          • cielo62 says:

            shannoninmiami~ too bad we can’t have a recess from the recession!

            ________________________________

  106. Was my jaw the only one that dropped when O’Mara accused the prosecution of doing the very thing he did a couple days ago, lying to the judge, and wanted them persecuted for it?

    • Nef05 says:

      Nope, mine was on the floor, as well. What did Pres. Clinton say, “takes a lot of brass to accuse someone else of something you’ve been doing”?

    • FactsFirst says:

      nope.. your jaw wasn’t the only one dropping.. Thats O’Haha’s famous RUBBER GLUE defense… “I’m rubber your glue, whatever you say bounces offa me and sticks to you”… smdh..

  107. evokid7 says:

    Mark O’Funny what a big as loser, now you trying to put Bernie in jail….

    Dear God, please strike Mark O’Dummy with IBS, when his cross exams Bernie…. Thank You.

  108. fauxmccoy says:

    smack down, by judge nelson and rightly so. this has gotten beyond ridiculous!

  109. rayvenwolf says:

    And FINALLY JN puts her foot down and we got on with this. Its about freaking time. MoM needs to drop this sanction BS because it is NOT working in his favor. The deeper and longer this goes the worse they end up looking.

    • willisnewton says:

      Ha ha ha. BDLR calls bullshit on taking the stand and IMMEDIATELY judge Nelson calls bullshit on MOM’s whole gambit.

      On to trial. Justice delayed is injustice.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        O’Mara and West make the Shriner’s circus look like Cirque Du Soleli at this point. Utterly and beyond ridiculous.

  110. Valerie says:

    WOW !! He tried to call BDLR to the stand !!

  111. Xena says:

    BAM!!! Judge Nelson isn’t going to waste time hearing O’Mara’s conspiracy theories and avoiding the Frye hearing. You go Judge Nelson. (Go judge! Go judge! Go judge!)

  112. groans says:

    Right, Judge Nelson! This has been a bizarre circus sideshow, in an attempt to delay trial!

    Enough BS! Let’s get to the MERITS!

  113. Rachael says:

    Whoa doggie! LOL

  114. snap!!! duhhh duhhh she let the sheanaagins go on long enough~!

  115. KittySP says:

    BAM! now go somewhere and sit down!

  116. crazy1946 says:

    Wow! Judge Nelson gave MOM and pretty good slap down!!!!

  117. Tzar says:

    Nelson finally pulled the fucking mic cord
    good grief
    it is about time

  118. dianetrotter says:

    Shut up O! On with the Frye hearing!

  119. Woow! says:

    Did that MOFO MOM just accuse Bernie of lying to the Judge? Oh my F-God this man has lost his mind. Ok I get it …the GOP playbook accuse your opponent of doing what your misdeeds.

    • Tzar says:

      like Bernie said
      when the law is against you argue the evidence
      when the evidence is against you, argue the law
      when the law and the evidence is against you
      call the other attorney’s name

    • Xena says:

      Looks like O’Mara’s plot was to have BDLR removed from the case, which would delay trial. O’Mara’s a snake.

      • wow!
        this is crazy! whatcha wanna bet omar’s got a problem with doing the frey hearing???
        he wasn’t expecting it.

        • Xena says:

          @shannon.

          whatcha wanna bet omar’s got a problem with doing the frey hearing???

          O’Mara’s motion and argument is because he knows it was Trayvon screaming, has no expert to say otherwise, and GZ insisted that he do something to prevent that evidence from being entered at trial, so Papa Zim and Junior can be the ONLY “expert” witnesses — just like LLMPapa’s video says.

          • well i have no idea what this guy is going on about . it’s too boring…but i think they’ll need a miracle if they think this expert’s gonna do it for em.
            that tape is coming in and no one will doubt ( no normal person) who’s voice that is..

      • Trained Observer says:

        He probably thought he could string this sanctions nonsense out all day and into tomorrow. Surprise, surprise.

        Frankly, I’m surprised jN put up with as much of this as she did.

    • well that’s what zimmy’s been doing. accusing Trayvon of everything he did, and then trying to steal Trayvon’s words and actions for himself. ya know.. Like *MOM* *I’M BEGGING YOU*… that zimmy is trying to say he screamed for his mom and not THE 17y.o. KID!!! yeah, everyone knows the grown ass 28 y.o 203 lbs MAN is gonna be screaming for his mommy!!!

      • texad says:

        @ shannoninmiami

        Celie [in the Color Purple] said it best : “Everything you done to me, already done to you.”

        By the looks of GZ, he’s already a dead man walking.

        • OMG!! i remember that part! that’s some serious shit there!! that was scary when she said it, i’ll never forget it!

          i believe you’re right too. he has to get what he puts out, get what he gave, lay in the bed he made.
          I’ve always believed in karma until recently.. and i still want to believe gz will get what he deserves so i’ll reserve belief of karma for now..

    • gbrbsb says:

      Piensa el ladrón que todos son de su condición (A thief thinks that everyone is in the same game, or something like that)

  120. SoulSistaWoo says:

    OMG!!!!!! Judge Nelson is not playing and has just gave notice that 1. She has a zero tolerance for MOM BS and 2. THE TRIAL WILL BEGIN ON MONDAY, JUNEth as schelduled!

  121. rayvenwolf says:

    O.o…. Seriously MoM? You’re wanna call Bernie? Are you out of your fruit loopin mind?

  122. Jun says:

    They’re gonna put Joonyah the Racist on the stand next

    He’s gonna testify to the world that

    1) Blacks are risky

    2) The Jews control the media and they are conspiring with the pu-bu-lacks, whom are risky, to railroad a decent white I mean Afro Peruvian police officer I mean NW that is not self appointed

    3) Trayvon Martin is also Jewish, hence the control beyond the grave

    4) Black plus Jewish equals even more risky

    Trust me it’s coming up next

  123. groans says:

    Postponing this mess – HOO-RAY!! Good idea, JN!

  124. Woow! says:

    I’m posting in bit and pieces at the moment sorry folks at work…. am I missing something. Did I hear West say when being questions by Bernie that their expert witness found additional evidence in the raw data and Bernie asked did you disclose it to use and he had a deer in head light moment?

  125. parrot says:

    It’s the court’s intention to start on Monday. So much for the defense’s renewed motion to continue.

  126. Is Judge Nelson getting ready to shut this bullsh*t down?

    • FactsFirst says:

      About damn time! I can’t BELIEVE they’re (every lawyer/judge in FLORIDA) allowing the likes of fogen make a mockery of the court system.. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

  127. KittySP says:

    ooooh, no he didnt!

  128. Tzar says:

    Today’s new word kids: Work product

    it’s not what you think…anymore

    • ay2z says:

      New definition for Work Product– what you get from the state in one form as requested, then you send back to them asking for them to do your work to put it in simple readable form, is ‘work product’.

      Share and share alike, the new definition. Makes the term redundant as we knew it before today, doesn’t it.

  129. amsterdam1234 says:

    Processing problems again.

  130. Woow! says:

    West is an idiot. Bernie has him and MOM on the run. They filed a motion complaining prosecution withheld evidence but it is apparent that they are hiding evidence and waiting until the last minute to produce it.

    • BillT says:

      just like fogen claiming trayvon did the things he actually did…..now his lawyers filed documents FALSELY claiming the defense was holding back evidence WHILE they indeed WERE holding back evidence.

  131. Trained Observer says:

    Oh my… WEST: “It’s going to take me a minute to sort that out.” processing today?

  132. evokid7 says:

    chile!!!!! old man West…. Take A FUCKIN seat….

  133. Tzar says:

    careful now West
    there are emails
    LMAO

  134. Malisha says:

    Fogen’s eyes shift about and then blinky bink and then he kind of does a half-smirk with his mouth and then shifty-eyes-blinky-bink again and some sort of creepy-looking internal mobilization occurs. He reminds me of a Cyborg. Hey — do you think the real Fogen already fled and this is a Cyborg with an ankle bracelet on?

    • ay2z says:

      Last hearing he did the same thing at the end, eyes shifted far to one side, then far to the other, head held like in a brace. Then directly at the camera.

      He’s doing more of those antics today, attention getting.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      That is a good one, Malisha!

  135. Nef05 says:

    West is losing it!

  136. KittySP says:

    Unless they found texts or pics specific to homes in RATL or GZ then this is all MOOT!!!

  137. fauxmccoy says:

    yup — west admits he got the source file in feb, but no one installed a neon sign saying ‘check me’. what a dim bulb!

  138. evokid7 says:

    Pump Yo Brakes West!!!! Don’t get loud.

  139. Xena says:

    Get him, Bernie. Gethimgethimgethim. Get Don West!

    • ay2z says:

      Get him, Judge Nelson! And she did!

      If this had to be done today in front of cameras, it was for MOM’s media agenda to speak to the jury pool, all ready with their notices and call ups for Monday.

  140. Tzar says:

    I swear
    West is the greatest “this one time at bandcamp” bullshit artist evar

  141. evokid7 says:

    God that Fugly Face of Fogen Geez. I think he is eating all he can, cause he knows that he is not going to eat so good in the Bighouse.

  142. Malisha says:

    I can see it now.

    OM: We need this information in this phase of the trial Your Honor.

    JN: Explain why you need it.

    OM: If indeed Trayvon Martin was just as my client thought, a drug addict up to no good with guns and violence and MMA and underage girls and beating up Sherman Ware on his phone, and if all that is allowed in, then we can prove my client’s self-defense claim.

    JN: Your client has not made a self-defense claim Mr. O’Mara.

    OM: Well he WOULD if you would let him testify anonymously behind a screen and not expose him to cross-examination.

    JN: You already asked for that and I denied it. If you want him to testify he has to swear his oath and take the stand and be questioned and cross-examined like any other witness here.

    OM: But he can’t risk doing that, Your Honor; there are thugs out to kill him if he does that.

    JN: Oh I see. So what do you prefer?

    OM: He wants to proffer to the court, through me, that the young thug got himself dead because my client was forced to defend himself from being murdered on 2/26/2012.

    JN: OK, you want me to instruct the jury that they should believe that and that we can dispense with testimony and cross-examination?

    OM: Yes Your Honor, because that is the American Way.

    JN: Oh. I guess I missed that part in Law School. Thanks for mentoring me. Proceed.

  143. evokid7 says:

    Oh god!!!! Wouldn’t it just be fucking beyond funny. If they got a file dump on Fogen’s phone. And there is a picture of naked She/lie lol lol…That just came to me while listening to “RAPTOR FACE” Attorney West. I can see them doing something like that between each other. LMAO

  144. KittySP says:

    Why are they wasting time with what’s on Trayvon’s phone…that may not even be admissable?

  145. What is going on here? Make it stop!

  146. PYorck says:

    Btw. if anybody is surprised by the thousands of images, you can tell from the size and things said about them that those aren’t all typical photos but includes tiny cached images collected while browsing the web etc.

  147. Xena says:

    So, pro bono attorneys want to be paid for doing their job. (SMH)

  148. Trained Observer says:

    Watching these two turkeys interact with each other is absurd. When will JN bring down the hammer and tell the m to get on with it?

    For that matter, Trayvon could have had the secret official recipe for Coca-Cola on his phone along with a map for where D.B. Cooper landed, and it wouldn’t have anything to do with how Fogen murdered an unarmed teen.

    • texad says:

      @ Trained Observer

      Judge Nelson read your mind. She just gave MOM a short lecture on how to prioritize what is important on this day in her courtroom. And did I here MOM announce that he wanted to put Bernie in the box? W. T. H.???? Judge Nelson then took a 10 minute recess to see whether her advice will be followed. If I was a betting person I would bet MOM will come back just as clueless as he was before the recess.

  149. groans says:

    I still can’t believe they’re doing all this mess just days before trial! Most lawyers would be overwhelmed with trial prep.

    • Malisha says:

      They don’t need to prepare for trial. Once the big conspiracy is revealed through these folks they put on the stand, the charges will all be dropped and then Junior and Fogen are going to sue the Fulton-Martins for millions of dollars for deliberate infliction of emotional distress!

    • Unabogie says:

      It’s obvious that they’re only doing this to repeat over and over about “guns” and “underage girls” and “drugs”.

      What a despicable spectacle we’re witnessing.

    • trina cosbie says:

      That’s because these loser lawyers keep running out of straws!! They bypassed an SYG hearing, their dignity, self respect & now common damn sense!!

    • Trained Observer says:

      What would they prep? They’ve got no defense … all they can do is obfuscate and confuse and make it all seem complicated. Then later claim they “lost” on technicalities unrelated to their client’s innocense. We all know a neighborhood watch guy has every right to gun down whoever he pleases.

  150. amsterdam1234 says:

    West on the stand again.
    Yippie

  151. Jun says:

    Are these hearings made to torture Fogen? LOL

  152. dianetrotter says:

    Could it be that White contacted O’Mara as far back as January. White identified the weakest link in the chain for the prosecution. Possibly even followed Q to know where he would eat and then pounced. They appealed to W’s pride and sense of entitlement. q was being used like toilet paper and didn’t even know it. He is too low on the totem pole to know all information and assumed what he didn’t know was missing.

  153. Valerie says:

    Question: (sorry but I had to keep bring the livestream back up) But is the state saying that Omara got the entire file from FDLE namely Brennen?

  154. Tzar says:

    Oh lord
    West is back for seconds in the stand

  155. crazy1946 says:

    I’m starting a new business! I am going into the internet popcorn delivery service. For the small sum of $2.50 (via PayPal), I will email you a bag of popcorn, butter on the popcorn will cost extra! I should be able to make enough off this trial to start my very own franchise operation! Perhaps I will call it “Pop Corn Trial Services”? Who wishes to buy the first bag? PS: I will give a 10% senior discount….

  156. SearchingMind says:

    I wonder if Kruidbos has contributed to Fogen’s Defense Fund. I wonder if prosecutors researched that question. The ones that support Fogen with money do not fit into stereo-type image of racists created in the mind of the ordinary individual. They are the sort one will never suspect of having any racial animosity and hatred. I don’t think Kruidbos is a naïve young man. I think he is calculating, mischievous and breathtakingly dumb (as is his “attorney” Mr. Wes White).

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      SearchingMind… I agree with the observation in your post totally! I also think Kruidbos inexperience (Youth) is the reason for his making this calculated, mischievous, breathtakingly dumb ass move.

      What a freakin Zimmerman!

  157. ay2z says:

    Here we go with a possible defense strategy, to claim, as previously alluded to by fogen’s defense, that new science (who really needs a Fry hearing on what??) suggests, based on 3 (THREE) young people’s experience, that pot smoking brings on schizophrenia, including paranoia, recurring psychosis (key word ‘recurring’) and hallucinations.

    Will MOM be watching CBC television this weekend?

    http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureofthings/2010/downsideofhigh/

  158. Ty Flair says:

    Mr.White is trying his best to get his 15min. of fame,he really wanted this case. LOL! O’Mara,West and White the dam Three Stooges! You all can choose which is who,it want make a different.

    • Malisha says:

      They are like naughty boys playing with grown-up pornography in the attic and then they conceive of the idea that they can force people to give them whatever they want if they pretend that whoever had the pornography before them was supposed to give it to them earlier — and then they find out that (a) it’s contraband and they’re in trouble and (b) in addition, they’re getting blamed for smuggling it up there in the first place! OHO!! Isn’t this whole case a bunch of immature big-mouth conscience-free intelligence-impaired assholes posturing and waving their arms about like non-Equity actors in a local production of an unknown Russian drama?

  159. ZCBest says:

    Is it bad that I am salivating over this hearing…hurry up 1:40 p.m. I need to see this hearing continue! All I need is the popcorn cause the show is entertaining as hell!

  160. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Okay, I really do not understand computer and cellphone technology nor all the legalities here.

    However, I do have a comment using my “mother wit”:

    I am going back to White saying that he and K were at the same restaurant and eating a separate tables.

    (This was at the time that K no doubt was experiencing grief over the death of his wife. He probably was emotionally vulnerable.)

    Up to this point (say in January) K was just catching the difference in the bites of the cellphone info and giving BLDR the “corrections” which BLDR, in fact, DID act on and update whatever.

    Then, along comes White to K’s table at the restaurant. White then or before had given his condolences to K over the loss of K’s wife.

    Because White and K had originally been sitting at separate tables, it does not seem to me that K had any originally intentions of talking to White (for legal advice over his cellphone-info legal exposure).

    I think we have to ask how White “drew” K’s concerns out of K once White sat down at K’s restaurant table.

    How did the conversation evolve into K’s technical work for the State? Did White himself cause K to suddenly be concerned that K might have “legal exposure”? Had K even considered this possibility before his encounter with White at the restaurant?

    Any thoughts?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Did White engineer this entire scenario?

    • truthseeker66 says:

      White was looking for an opportunity to screw AC. DNK what IT idiot motivation was.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Interesting theory you have there. With their meeting as you describe (I had to go check and sign off deliver for some roof tiles during BDLR’s cross) sounds like a very casual encounter and strange it should go from “sorry to hear about you wife”, to K retaining White to represent him for a failure to disclose he isn’t even sure actually happened.

  161. PYorck says:

    Is it just me or did Kruidbos find out on the stand that the defense had screwed him over and he ruined his career for nothing?

  162. SearchingMind says:

    Summary

    1. O’Mara’s IT-expert is more competent than Mr. Kruidbos (the State’s IT-expert). This is new (and I hope no reason for concern).

    2. O’Mara had- and published information he claims the State hid from him. The State did not have that information because the State’s expert (i.e. Kruidbos) was not competent enough to extract that information.

    3. BDLR did not say this but O’Mara violated Discovery Rules by not providing the State the information he extracted.

    No Discovery violation. MOTION DENIED!

    Good to see theese Sky-Hawks: Bernie, Guy and the Bored guy in actiotion.

  163. Jun says:

    I do not get what the point of today was with that Idiot White guy and CryBoss because when they testified, all they proved is Omara is a fucking bloodclot liar LMAO

    He had everything the whole time LMAO

    On top, Omara mischaracterized the evidence and said it was from a third party software, so they could have been playing a cellphone game where they buy guns or whatever

    bumbaclot idiot

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      They just played the 911 tape for Nagasone and you should have watched gz’s face. His eyes were down in the middle, but as the last blood curdling scream came on his eyes seemed to pop up. Then he seemed to be trying to maintain composure but then he swallowed hard, it seemed pretty darned involuntary to me. Can’t wait to get the video to see it again.

  164. tonydphotog says:

    Yet, another person’s life that fogen has ruined!!!

    It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s friends with fogen, or at least was.

    • Valerie says:

      I was wondering to my self whether Fogen feels bad…anyway another one bites the dust. The body count keeps increasing.

    • Tasha Harris says:

      If there was any doubt about fogens guilt it should be put to rest after this latest dog and pony show. Innocent people let the known evidence speak for itself.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      More likely someone OM knows.

    • boyd says:

      ruined lives? oh yeah that’s true. I heard RVC’s home value is at a low and no one can sell their house/condos. My wife and I were joking about grabbing one for like 85k.

  165. ay2z says:

    Recess break: Anyone got some really bad Musak?? If so, it might be appropriate but please keep it to yourself!! 😉

    How about a little smile instead.

  166. ay2z says:

    Recess to 1:40 EST. MOM wanted more than one hr, much to do, Judge Nelson didn’t give in to his latest camera op whine.

  167. Tzar says:

    Man…what is the defense doing?

    • ay2z says:

      Spreading the poison. I think this could be what Bernie was overheard on the after court last week, where Bernie said “That’s not fair, Mark.”

  168. boyd says:

    I’d like to know the education of this IT guy. His critical thinking is atrocious.

    Why inject yourself in a case when you don’t know all the facts?

    And he should know the raw bin file contains all he thought the Defense did not get.

    Also he said cellbrite software cost $8k. So likely there are copyrights and licenses issued, one just cannot GIVE it to someone. Did any of that ever come up in court?

    • ay2z says:

      He wants to get in good with Ms. Corey’s replacement… in the future. A gamble and an incentive to be some sort of SAO mole for White to future career benefit, to undermine the present SA.

      • ay2z says:

        Note ‘Wes’ has not yet billed him, doesn’t remember when he talked to his client first or opened a client file, or made any notes around first contact time, nor did Wes notify Judge Nelson, nor did he notify the Fla Bar Assn, nor did he speak to anyone at the SAO because he said he assumed he would not get the truth (that was an ASSumption on his part only).

    • Tzar says:

      he thought he was exposed to legal risks before? well let’s see what happens when he makes himself a target of the DA’s office due to exposing confidential information. He seems to have no fucking idea that they now may need to make an example of him. Consider what he did, and what the ramifications of him getting away with it would be. Any disgruntled employee may now be embolden to play with the people’s evidence as part of their personal vendetta; the DA’s office can’t have that. And you know what, his lawyer can’t save him, in fact mr. white seems a bit out of practice.

      • Malisha says:

        WHO (not even lawyers or public office, but ANYBODY) would ever hire an IT guy who sold confidential information out of the Florida prosecutor’s office? He’ll have to go to work for those Nigerians who always get lost in airports and have to e-mail home for money to escape terrible situations. But he’ll have to be physically outsourced to India even to do that!

      • boyd says:

        That’s why I was curious about his education. No matter the degree the most important thing I think other than subject matter, is conditioning the brain to think critically the remainder of your life.

        Got on the stand and tangled with BDLR without all the facts?
        using the phrase from the Gladiator movie. “That was not prudent”

  169. whonoze says:

    West Coast: tuned in late. Did they do the Frye hearing before this, or is that yet to come?

  170. amsterdam1234 says:

    I think Nelson has about had it.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Nelson has a lot of patience, really. Some Judges would have interjected and told O’Mara to wrap it up! This is The Best of Beavis and Butthead (oh I love that series).

      • fauxmccoy says:

        nothing better than a B&B ‘moronathon’ … i think we’ve got a good 6 week stretch coming up 🙂

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Lol
        I was sitting up straight when they feed came back, and saw West on the stand.
        I just love O’Mara’s severe voice and West’s long suffering drone.

  171. ay2z says:

    My imagination, or is this guy’s brown nose getting bigger?

  172. Rachael says:

    Damnit – I’m working – sounds like I’m missing some good stuff. I’m sure the hearing will be posted somewhere later. 😦

    • ay2z says:

      You can bet youtuber Fogen supporter, ‘trayvon george’ will have it up pronto.

      I’m going to check the friendly side first.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Trent had the first 30-45 minutes up while the rest of the hearing was still going.

  173. ay2z says:

    MOM asks about release of retirement funding increases/financial info that had been leaked.

    Public records request at time it happened, Ms. Corey said info was public records request. She didn’t think that K had done it, according to ‘K’.

    Email with screenshots, K said he made it, to notate difs between the two releases, to Osteen and cc BDLR. Subject “File Differences” but he put in no case number, says office policy not to id emails by case number/name, put not specifics into email (told by SAO)

    Judge calls sidebar.

  174. YQ says:

    MOM’s in CYA mode now.

    “I didn’t tell you anything to say in court right???”

    “No.”

  175. do we really need the extra theatrics from this liar? isn’t he already getting enough attention in the pressers?

  176. Correction: confidentiality ..

  177. ay2z says:

    K: “We didn’t even try it in house” (recover from the phone)

    MOM: “Heh…”

    K: calls his lawyer “Wes White”
    K: “I don’t know the date” (re: put on admin. leave)
    K: “I would prefer not to make those accusations” (re: employee underlings, access, etc taken away from him)

    MOM: Anger, animosity t’wards B?
    K: “No.”

    Mom, buying the gun actually existed in Feb ’12 report… “surprise you?”

    K: “No”

    (Feb 2012???)

  178. Nef05 says:

    Did O’Mara just throw dude under the bus, re: report 2/12?

  179. Bernie brings up breach of bonfidentiality ..

    Dude’s ASS is GRASS! Kiss it goodbye!

  180. Two sides to a story says:

    Heh – trying to minimize the damage!

  181. Lynn says:

    What is GZ chewing? Is he pretending to eat? Is this his way of telling JN it’s lunchtime?

  182. Nef05 says:

    The “conspiracy” again? O’Mara’s falling back on the crackhouse/joonya theory? LOL!

  183. Tzar says:

    what exactly is O’Mara’s redirect about? LMAO

    • trina cosbie says:

      I don’t even think M’OM knows where the hell’s he’s going with his line of questioning. He just trying the “never let em’ see you sweat” defense…lol

  184. Malisha says:

    You knew the stuff you worked on was confidential?

    YES

    But you felt you could be in trouble if you did not disclose it?

    I WAS AFRAID OF LEGAL CONSEQUENCES…

    But you had no trouble continuing to work for the SAO?

    RIGHT.

    No further questions.

    [UH OH, WTF? UH OH…] (if he has i.q. in the double digits, at least.)

    or, if i.q. = < 70:

    [WOW I really answered THAT question good!]

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Unbelievable.

    • boyd says:

      That sounds like the dumb IT guy. Ever since they started these Strayer schools for IT, I’ve seen plenty of these types entering IT. We used to mostly have Math or EE BS degree types in IT back in the day. I’s dotted, T’s crossed. Some co-workers and I were rolling laughing at this guy.

      Like dude, what are you doing testifying about something you know nothing about?

  185. SearchingMind says:

    Bernie has completely devoured this Kruidbos guy. What a Sky-hawk!

  186. SoulSistaWoo says:

    OK one more cheer for Bernie De La Rionda!

    Now he is going to whip this boy with the Breach of Confidentiality tube… This dude is a pure bona fide victim of Bernie…

  187. ay2z says:

    B brings up info in attny’s office is confidential and remains confidential?

    K says ‘yes’

    ooo… like a victim of sexual batter?

    K: “Yes”

    B brings up general examples of reasons for this, and other examples, gangs, destruction of evidence, etc

    K: “I didn’t know what you have turned over”

    B: but you continued to work here, for myself and Mr. Guy etc…
    … you had no problems doing that?

    K: “No”

  188. Nef05 says:

    You’re finished dude. You will never work for any entity, public or private that requires confidentiality within the company/entity. Now, it appears you mayhave violated a colleage’s personal medical info, so no one wants to work with you, either. Find a new career, or start fixing computers out of your house to make rent.

    You’re done.

  189. tonydphotog says:

    So Omara already knew that trayvon didn’t take those photos of the gun and pot plant. They were imported from a 3rd party software.program.

    • ladystclaire says:

      It seems to me, that Mark O’IDIOT is digging his own grave plus hammering in the final nail of his own coffin as well. he is making himself look worse as the days go by. this is what he gets for being IN BED with the racist bigoted misfits.

      This man can’t be much of an attorney, to the point that he has to build his defense (NOT) around his taking orders/advice from people such as the misfits of OZ. this man needs actually needs to pay a visit to the Wizard himself because, IMO he has not got all that GOD promised him.

      He has neither a HEART or a BRAIN.

    • charlieh says:

      Can anyone let me me know where in the hearing this information was revealed? Because if the photo of the gun wasn’t even Trayvon’s, then the Zidiots have even less then the nothing they already had on the whole “Trayvon had a gun!” nonsense.

  190. trina cosbie says:

    ……….& There it is!! BDLR just brought it home!!! M’OM had to information all along & retrieved it all by him wittle self!!!

  191. Tzar says:

    Bernie has a fantastic “shit eating grin”, it may rival Nelson’s

  192. Dude just realized he done effed up!

  193. looolooo says:

    MOM accusses Bernie of making things up!!!!

  194. Valerie says:

    Bernie getting going for the kill…

  195. ay2z says:

    MOM: says “mischaracterization… he just makes it up.”

    Judge says you can cross him on this.

  196. Tzar says:

    B: How many other cases have you checked to see if evidence was turned over to the defense (in 14 years)?

    Idiot: None that I can recall

    this idiot does not even know when to lie

  197. ay2z says:

    Over 14 years, K recalls no other cases where he has questioned whether discovery has or has not been turned over.

  198. trina cosbie says:

    Someone is getting frustrated & red in the face b/c his lies are being laid bare at the worlds feet!!…lmao

  199. amsterdam1234 says:

    Is that an objection mr. White?
    Yes your honour?
    Overruled.

    • Malisha says:

      Too simple. I wish it had been:

      Is that an objection, Mr. White?

      No, Your Honor. That was an ostrich.

      Sustained. When you want to make that ostrich into an objection it will be overruled.

  200. Tzar says:

    Amazing..what did he think was gonna happen on the stand? Bernie would offer him tea and crumpets?

    he is a fucking child!

  201. Nef05 says:

    White is pitiful How do you think it’s not relelvant to ask if this guy was pissed about being accused of previously leaking private information.

  202. SoulSistaWoo says:

    OMG! This is not the 1st time this guy has pulled something like this… What an idiot!

  203. ay2z says:

    K says never provided the bin file to anyone outside the office, only verbal description to Mr. White.

    K is no forensic expert in this area. B established K never went to Cell-brite, Osteen (sp) did.

    B: Why a concern if you didn’t do anything wrong?

    Now on his employment history in this field, city then SAO. Started with SAO under Corey.

    Issues with your supervisor? Hmmms…. haws….
    His access, downgraded his authority — less number of people, shorter lunch hour, etc, curtailed before any of this going on.

    Where is B going with this? Disgruntled and wanting to make waves?

    April 2013, early April, B and Ms. Corey, re: his access to information that was leaked on a blog (personal employee health info put out). Either you or someone else, who had done this. One of two people, K admits.

    Other person,— White?

  204. Shari says:

    Okay so help me out here. Fogen’s lawyers made an allegation that BDR hid evidence. Has it been proven today that he has hid no evidence? The defense complained about the costs associated with getting the info from Trayvon’s phone. That is not up to the state, the defense has big money donors. Now the IT guy got on the stand and said, no BDR has not hid anything, right? Also the defense was talking about the pictures last year.

    I’m not seeing how they figured the pics were relevant. A black hand holding a gun, a pic that we all know was deleted off the phone pre-Fogen. What do they prove when Fogen had a REAL gun that he used to murder a child. A gun he took everywhere.

    • Dave says:

      They didn’t have to buy the software. They could have had the BIN file translated by an IT consultant who did.

      • Shari says:

        Thanks. So they did have the info. The state withheld nothing. It was up to them to hire someone to extract info from it. This was proven today?

  205. gbrbsb says:

    Are we all getting a clicking noise something like a racking noise every so often, and would that be a stenographer? Can’t recall ever hearing it in other hearings so maybe and (we are phasing them out over here if we haven’t already done so).

  206. Trained Observer says:

    IT guy on stand is either really unethical, really sloppy or really stupid, if not all three. I don’t see him hanging on to his job for long after this.

  207. Nef05 says:

    There it is!

  208. chi1224 says:

    Zimmerman is a bloated mess! Eeeeeew!

  209. Tzar says:

    Be careful now, youngin
    the question is have you had issues or disagreement with your new boss?
    LMAO

  210. Malisha says:

    OK, the IT guy was “not an attorney” so that is the reason he did not know to go to his own boss, his own office, to check on what he should do about his concerns.

    BUT he formulated some concerns about how the information was being handled based upon legal considerations of what is proper for prosecution and defense to DO while taking part in a criminal trial and dealing with evidence. And he acted on those concerns, including hiring his own attorney to facilitate? Did I get that right?

  211. chi1224 says:

    If Bernie did nothing wrong, why are these idiots still on the stand?! This seems like a ploy to me from sleeze ball O’Mara to keep the “prosecution misconduct” headline up as long as possible! Why doesn’t Bernie just pass and let the judge rule?!

    • Tzar says:

      If Bernie did nothing wrong, why are these idiots still on the stand?!

      Is this from the O’Mara school of no cross-examination?

  212. YQ says:

    okay, he ONCE worked with the State… I’m clear now-still his ethics is questionable.

  213. YQ says:

    Mr. White told him that he needed to talk with O’Mara although he himself decided not to inform Corey and team??? He is the IT Director of the State, am I right?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Veddy strange.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      YQ… You might want to rephrase that question to… “He was the IT Director of the State?”…

      I hope he has a confirmed new position… because Corey and co. will be gunning for his ass after this. I have a feeling his work environment will become VERY VERY hostile, until he types up his e-mail of resignation.
      CTFU! He is young and dumb… and again I say, Everyone that comes in contact with Fogen becomes a loser and gets slimmed.

      • type1juve says:

        No one is gonna hire his ass now since he can’t keep his mouth shut and has shown himself to be a TRAITOR!

  214. SoulSistaWoo says:

    Bernie De La Rionda is in his A-S-S!
    Get um Bernie!

    He said well who said you should meet with Mr. O’Mara instead of speaking to me…

    Answer: My Attorney

    Bernie: So Mr. White told you to meet with Mr. O’Mara…

    BOOM!!!… Mr. White revenge further exposed!

  215. ay2z says:

    (wftv on news and weather, WESH is up)

  216. Tzar says:

    he does not recall when he spoke to O’Mara this week
    LMAO
    oh what a tangled web we weave

  217. Valerie says:

    SMDH…unbelievable! !

    .

  218. Nef05 says:

    Still can’t hear Judge Nelson.

  219. Punk ass White couldn’t remember ish when he was questioned on the stand. Now he wants to show out in front of a national audience.

    Go sit yo ass down!

  220. Tzar says:

    this kid is an idiot
    answer yes or no
    don’t give an attorney material to work with

    • Tzar says:

      you will not win that battle young one
      he asks questions for a living
      you don’t answer them for a living

    • ay2z says:

      Someone put a bug in his ear. Ooo…. now Q about about his convo with MOM.

      B “What Day?”

      K: don’t remember”

      B: Who told you, you meet with Mr. O’Mara?
      K: Mr. White…. my attorney…. (plans for conf. call.)

      BOOM on Omara, his … objection was a speaking objection and was…. ‘mischaracterization’.

      (WFTV just went to weather…feed off now)

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      This kid is in waaay over his head and it’s written all over his face… and in the shaking in his voice.

      • Tzar says:

        WAYYYYYYYY over his fucking head
        I have to wonder how they greased his pot to get his foolish ass into this sham

      • truthseeker66 says:

        What I would give to know how this idiot got himself roped in. White is nearing retiring but idiot is still wet behind the ears.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        total ‘deer in the headlights’ action. he’d just better head on over to the unemployment office when he finishes testifying.

  221. sharenelld says:

    Zimmerman is like magnet that attracts foolish people! Is everyone on his team going to make public asses of themselves?

  222. tonya B says:

    ohhhhhhh now Mr White jumps up and objects but when he was in the BBOX he didn’t remember SHIT ohhhh but now you wanna put your lawyer cape on BOL LMBO

  223. ay2z says:

    K: “You said two different things”

    B: “Did you ask for a clarification?”

    K: “No Sir, I didn’t.”

  224. YQ says:

    “Burger King” trending on Bing-lol

  225. Trained Observer says:

    Frustrating to lose audio and video

    • ay2z says:

      That happened last time, ok today on my end. Sometimes good to have a second window open and ready to click on, or running volume down.

  226. rayvenwolf says:

    *gives Bernie a standing ovation*

  227. tonya B says:

    Bernie eating his ass up

  228. Tzar says:

    Bernie is skewering this jackass!!!

    • texad says:

      @ Tzar

      This poor sap offers a teacheable moment for employees. It is: STAY IN YOUR LANE!!!! If you are an IT guy, do THAT job. The State of Florida Prosecutors have no obligation to talk about case strategy with an IT guy. It is not your business to speculate on what “evidence” will or will not be given to anybody.

      The second teachable moment is: Be smart enough to understand what team you are on.

  229. ay2z says:

    BOOM!! Judge Nelson smacks down Mr. White, teaches him what the rules are for objections in her courtroom. No argument, only ‘legal objections’ .

  230. this joker is dying to be heard!! lol another attention seeker..

  231. Nef05 says:

    Anyone else lose video?

  232. Donna Flores says:

    BOOM and there you have it folks, was not comfortable going to Corey because of her relationship with Bernie.

  233. Donna Flores says:

    Boom, he is getting FIRED…

  234. Rachael says:

    “I don’t understand the question.”

    LMAO – BULLEFFNSHIT!!

  235. Two sides to a story says:

    Get him, Bernie, gethimgethimgethim.

  236. tonya B says:

    Bernie and his TEAM are ready……………………………………..

  237. Nef05 says:

    GET HIM BERNIE!!!!

  238. tonya B says:

    Bernie bout to eat his ass up in regards to the file dump

  239. Here comes Bernie…

    Get him, Bernie! I wanna see a rip in his ass.

  240. Two sides to a story says:

    I’d love to see a body language expert interpret all Fogen’s earlobe pulling and tip of nose rubbing.

  241. Look how White is smirking at the defense table.

  242. amsterdam1234 says:

    Let’s get ready to rumble.

  243. tonya B says:

    ^^Guys typo error

  244. BillT says:

    oimara is a pathetic lawyer manz, he just asked the witness a question that he didnt know how they would answer…trying to show the witness knew nothing about axes to grind but the witness siad YES he did suspect it!

  245. Robert Zimmerman JR ‏@rzimmermanjr 20m
    Whistleblower says he discovered pics of underage naked women, pile of jewelry on bed on #trayvonmartin phone. BDLR said “Deal with it.”
    Details

    Robert Zimmerman JR Robert Zimmerman JR ‏@rzimmermanjr 33m
    Kruidbos hints at deleted info that was not in “source file”. Concerned file was not complete & his attys would not have good information.
    Details

  246. tonya B says:

    looks like these broke the chain of command how can you contact/call the defense before even going to your own boss ????? seriously this is crazy

  247. tonya B says:

    why all of this BS my concern is 2/26/2012 …….. this I.T. guy is a mess

  248. amsterdam1234 says:

    Bernie is going to nail him.

  249. Two sides to a story says:

    OM’s getting red in the face and looks like he’s struggling.

  250. Nef05 says:

    Plug ins are irrelevant. O’Mara’s own expert should know the protocol to access al the data, and clearly they did since O’Mara had the info for the depositions in March.

  251. Rachael says:

    I’m sick of this bullsheet. When do we get to know what was on GZ’s phone??!!!

  252. Nef05 says:

    What DIFFERENCE does it make, if BDLR asked how much it costs? The defense is responsible for their own expenses or filing for indigency and letting the state pay for it. O’Mara can’t have it BOTH ways. He’s on my effing nerves!

    • Malisha says:

      Well no prob: they can buy a whole new courthouse once all the decent Americans send their money to Fogen for his expensive defense.

      The expensive defense is one where his lawyers have to pay for lobotomies for all the jurors and then they get to write in big red letters on big yellow poster-boards: INNOCENT.

      That should do it.

    • YQ says:

      True… they raked in enough money from donations from these losers to take care of it all.

  253. Malisha says:

    Hold on. How come “What did he say?” does not get someone jumping up saying, “Objection hearsay”? Why does one bozo get to talk about what someone said to him when another bozo doesn’t get to do that? What am I missing?

  254. Trained Observer says:

    For a narcissist like Fogen, it must be frustrating to listen to all this. He’s thinking “but what about mmeeeeee?”

  255. What does this have to do with what happened to Trayvon Martin on Feb 26th 2012?

  256. KA says:

    Does the IT guy think he is an attorney?

  257. Nellie Nell says:

    Assumption of who’s hand is holding the picture of the gun? Really?? I guess I know nothing about what is and what is not evidence during a trial!

  258. see this is exactly what Professor was saying the other day, this is where the scum team infects the public with irrelevant and false information- thru motions and these types of hearings!!

  259. Rachael says:

    There were no naked females that night, Trayvon had no gun or jewelry that night so WTF does any of this have to do with that night?!!!

    Sigh.

    • Tzar says:

      I would be more concerned if a seventeen year old had pictures of naked elderly women on his phone 🙂 lol

    • gbrbsb says:

      And WTF if a17-year old of today has pics of underage naked females on his phone, indeed had they been of a naked adult then there could be a case for charges against the adult, at least over here in the UK, as Trayvon was underage.

    • Nef05 says:

      I’m getting tired of all the references to “underaged” females as if Trayvon was some perv and not underaged himself, making these “underaged girls” his peers.

    • KittySP says:

      they need to be more concerned with what’s on GZs phone!

      • KittySP says:

        I’m sure many parents would be in a state of ‘shock and awe’ if they accessed text and pics from their teens phone. None of which is relevant to the case against GZ!!! Point, blank, period!

      • Soulcatcher says:

        They’re just pictures, not as if he is an alter boy molester.

  260. Two sides to a story says:

    This is insane. Let’s concentrate on the killer’s gun.

  261. @ay2z

    He wants to get back at Angela Corey with a vengeance.

  262. Donna Flores says:

    If there were 900 pages why did they pick and chose what to release. If those are the only items out of 900 then they don’t have much. a few photos and just those text messages…jeez what losers

  263. ay2z says:

    At recess, overheard what didn’t sound like defense people, so assume it was state people talking about ‘…. if she denies we will move on to…. ”

    So, if the Judge does not deny, and if they were talking about this sanctions motion, does this mean Bernie might be off the case today?

    This may the only purpose, even if everything is smoke and mirrors and misinfo, it will take Bernie longer to get through this and meanwhile off the case?

    Defense must be afraid of him to do this.

    Watch White at the defense table, in good camera catching position, slung back casual style in the chair, red tie. Bright red tie. Stands out. Tell me this guy is not a politician first.

    Kribos (sp and not going to try to fix)– O’Mara knows all this stuff now to ask the questions, but didn’t know he was asking for Bit files only from the state?

    • Nef05 says:

      I don’t think so, I believe they are talking about moving on to the Frye portion of the hearing. If she dosn’t deny she might hold the ruling over until after the trial, with the other sanction motions.

    • Tzar says:

      If you’re Jack, who’s Chrissy and Janet?
      LMAO

      (3’s company reference for the tadpoles)

    • Tzar says:

      At recess, overheard what didn’t sound like defense people, so assume it was state people talking about ‘…. if she denies we will move on to…. ”

      If you’re Jack, who’s Chrissy and Janet?
      LMAO

      (3′s company reference for the tadpoles)

    • Trained Observer says:

      Can’t image Bernie would be off the case because of this kind of nonsense.

      • ay2z says:

        Good, so this is all for the jury. (besides the personal political agenda of White)

        Defense in April, asked a witness about the gun and text message in a depo. Mr. K speculated but Mr. O’Mara knew on April 25th, 2012.

        “Obviously you would have sent him the source file.”

        K mentions ‘text about a gun’ that O’mara didn’t have, but oops….

        Who was playing this guy, didn’t define assumptions for this Mr. K?

        Definition, of Mr. White of ‘assumption’ “making an ass out of you and me.”

        (note how junior is seated in camera view again– familiarity for public consumption)

  264. I can’t stand it that these fools think they are entitled to have their work done for them.. they could PAY ANOTHER EXPERT TO examine the bin file and use their software, just like ever