Dr. Shiping Bao claims prosecution threw Zimmerman case

Wednesday, September 11, 2013

Assistant Medical Examiner for Volusia County, Dr. Shiping Bao, is suing the State of Florida and the Volusia County Medical Examiner’s Office for wrongful termination claiming that he was fired to take the blame for the prosecution’s failure to convict George Zimmerman, a failure that he believes the prosecution desired all along.

SF Gate (San Francisco Chronicle) reported late yesterday,

Attorney Willie E. Gary has since been retained by Bao and said he plans to file a lawsuit for wrongful termination, discrimination and job harassment against the Volusia medical examiner’s office, Sanford police department and the prosecutors. Gary said Bao contends they “set him up to fail” and that prosecutors didn’t properly prepare him to testify in the trial. He expects to file the suit in a week.

“It just doesn’t make sense they would have him give him a deposition in November last year and then have him beg and plead for a copy,” Gary said. “They did virtually no preparation with him. He said from the medical examiner on down their attitude was Trayvon got what he deserved.”

I have written several times criticizing Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda for not spending time educating Dr. Bao about our legal system and testifying in court. Seemed obvious to me that Dr. Bao thought he could appear in court and read from his notes without having to answer questions about his medical opinion. The prosecutor should have explained the basics and asked if he had anything new to add to his report. If he had spent an hour or two preparing Dr. Bao, he could have avoided the calamity that happened when Dr. Bao appeared upset by questions interrupting him as he read his notes and more than a little hostile when he had to surrender his notes to be copied and distributed to counsel. He also could have avoided the bombshell that Trayvon could have lived for 10 minutes after being shot.

I have spent hours prepping clients and witnesses who spoke little English and were unfamiliar with courtroom procedures and etiquette. Many times I have taken a client or witness into an empty courtroom and directed them to sit in the witness chair and speak toward the jury box as I stood on the other side of the courtroom asking questions. Reviewing subject matter likely to be covered during cross examination always is a must and there is no excuse, none whatsoever, not to do so.

Dr. Bao is from China and their legal system is not based on English common law and the art of cross examination.

I cannot speak regarding Dr. Bao’s work in other cases, but this firing decision has the look and feel of an effort to scapegoat him for the prosecution’s failure to do its job.

As far as I am concerned, the prosecution has a lot of explaining to do and firing Dr. Bao merely adds another question to the long list of questions.

Dr. Bao’s attorney, Willie Gary, left no doubt where he is going.

Through his high-profile attorney, he claims the medical examiner, state attorney’s office, and Sanford Police Department were all biased against Martin.

“He says their general attitude was that he got what he deserved,” Attorney Willie Gary told Channel 9.

Gary said Dr. Bao was made to be a scapegoat and was wrongfully fired from the medical examiner’s office. He said his client was prepared to offer proof that Martin was not the aggressor.

“He was in essence told to zip his lips. ‘Shut up. Don’t say those things,'” Gary said.

Gary said prosecutors never asked Dr. Bao a question crucial to their case.

“He wanted a question that would have allowed him to explain to the jury with scientific evidence how there was no way Trayvon Martin could have been on top of George Zimmerman,” Gary said.

Gary said that question never came.

332 Responses to Dr. Shiping Bao claims prosecution threw Zimmerman case

  1. fauxmccoy says:

    this should be very interesting. i look forward to hearing what dr. bao has to say.

  2. Two sides to a story says:

    Just might be the hottest story of the year, right up there with Fogen’s acquittal.

    • Yep, and it looks like Dr. Bao hired a powerhouse lawyer.

      This will be extremely interesting to watch.

      • ay2z says:

        Yes. They gave Dr. Bao the opportunity to leave quietly within 30 days or else. Good for him, he’s obviously a meticulous, methodical thinker, and probably as brilliant as they come. And he wanted to talk about Trayvon’s pain when no one else wanted to hear it.

        • BillT says:

          YES he is a very intelligent man and like most other intelligent folks they assume the truth and being correct is what matters….the reality of that trial was twofold, first and foremost no matter what COVER for the criminal actions of the officials involved and secondary was to be able to tell the public we tried him…….the prosecution NEVER intended to get a conviction and did a good job of HIDING the truth.

          • LadyStClaire says:

            I could tell on or about the third of fourth day, that something wasn’t right with how the prosecution was handling witnesses on cross examination. they were never aggressive with any of those who they knew where lying, they just let it go.

            Also, why did they not call W20 to the witness stand because, he was one of the most important witnesses and, yet they never called him to the stand. it really looks like the shit is getting ready to hit the fan. just like the good Dr’s attorney said, the prosecution has got a lot of explaining to do.

            These people ought to be a shamed of themselves, for working under the radar to ensure that this sack of shit, would not be convicted. if this doesn’t make the DOJ do a through investigation, of everyone involved in helping a child killer get away with murder, then they too will have Trayvon’s blood on their hands and, they will prove to be worthless just like those in Florida.

            Florida’s FBI agents, were dirty concerning this case as well. this is why I said that, they shouldn’t use agents from their branch of the FBI. no wonder they say there was no evidence than Fogen was racist because, they are from Florida and they themselves are racist. SMDH

      • Trained Observer says:

        Willie Gary was big — huge actually — long before anybody ever heard of Ben Crump.

        One thing, however. Many newspapers specializing in biz and law coverage do not report on suits until they are filed. The attitude when a lawyer calls up with the skinny is “fine, file it, and then we’ll talk.”

        That’s because some (many?) lawyers like to use pubs to arm twist for settlements on looming suits that never materialize.

        Hope this one goes all the way with every gory detail.

        Volusia, the State, and all may find Dr. Bao is brighter than they thunk.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @TO – what would be an absolute shame is an out of court settlement with a non-disclosure clause which would prohibit bao from discussing his observations.

          • Trained Observer says:

            @fauxmccoy — Agreed. And given all the cover-up aspects, there’s a good chance of that.

            Then again, for Dr. Bao it may be more about honor and integrity than mere money. Let’s hope.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @TO — i certainly got the impression from bao during his testimony that principles were important. beyond that, given his unique profession which will always be in demand, finding new employment should not be difficult.

            the concept of non disclosure just occurred to me and i sure hope that principles are more important than money to dr. bao. (i kind of think they are.)

          • Tzar says:

            that’s what I expect to happen

        • Alma Davis says:

          Hello I’m Alma,first time posting:
          Do’Do has hit the fan,it is all coming out,all the way around,one thing you can not do is think your going to get over on KARMA,We all knew that the state threw the cast, now we have a co’signer,Validation from some one in the Loop,All with Trayvon Martins blood on their hands will pay a price,one way or another,This is one check you can take to the bank &cash!!!!

          • Trained Observer says:

            Hello, Alma — You’ve arrived at a fine time for breaking news on this sad case. Proving once again that it ain’t over until it’s over.

          • looolooo says:

            Welcome Alma. My confidence has still not recovered from the travesty and injustice of this whole matter. I sure hope you and everyone else will be proven correct. I wish I had your confidence. we’re up against George Zimmerman after all. He’s mucho invincible as we’ve all found out. We shall see. I’ll continue to TRY to keep the faith. :-/

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        I liked the doctor during the trial, I felt he was trying to protect himself and that he thought CAC was guilty. I’m glad he’s got a good lawyer, I hope he wins, I’m glad my feelings & perceptions of people turn out to be pretty accurate

    • pat deadder says:

      Imho Dr Shipping Bao is an asshole..So he has been willing to keep his mouth shut until they decided to fire him?
      Is there no one in this trial besides Rachael who has any scruples
      What kind of people are these.
      I’m glad it’s coming out now don’t get me wrong but holy shit there needs to be a remedy to all of this a mistrial or something.
      What in name of billy blue blazes is going on.
      I have lost all faith in people in power.I think other cases need to be investigated.

  3. Jo-An says:

    Wow, just wow!!
    I have zero faith left in my heart for such a corrupt group of people.
    I foolishly believed in the justice system, clearly I was duped.
    Now I see the Lake Mary PD never even looked in GZ’s car for a gun the other day…for shame on them!

  4. MichelleO says:

    SAD. But this and the now loose lips of Fogan’s friends and Shellie’s family after their recent altercation will be very helpful in the civil trial.

    • ks says:

      Yes certainly! Notice how TM’s family and representatives have watched all this without saying a peep? They and we are being proven right.

      • @ks:

        The Martin family has dignity and class, and the Z family are low class pieces of trash! All of us regulars who post here, knew this the moment Fogen was pronounced, “NOT GUILT” that this fake ass trial was a farce! The DA did not use any of the eivdence that they claimed was damaging, and no forensic evidence was presented! They also tried to make Dr. Bao out to be some illiterate, ignorant immigrant who did not know what he was talking about!

        I have already shot off an e-mail to the DOJ! expressing my feelings in regard to the state case and encouraging them to pursue this case. I am sure they have heard about Dr. Bao’s lawsuit?

        I also hope that Dr. Bao watches his back. He is dealing with people in high places and they will not take to kindly of his accusations of the DA, SPD and the defense throwing the case! I never believed in “Justice for All” anyway and this farce of a case just cements that for me! This boy is dead, and these people are like throwbacks from 1955 Selma, Alabama mentality! My thoughts and prayers are with Sybrina and Tracy who lost their son and have to deal with this entire fiasco as they watch the killer of their son cavorting with his “hoe” getting into trouble and terrorizing his in laws, as he sinks more and more into madness!

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      That is so true! I didn’t consider that, how wonderful!

  5. MichelleO says:

    I WONDER what it’s like as for a black person to know that they are working for or in the presence of Fogan. I kept looking at that clip of the altercation between Fogan and Shellie and noticed that one of the black guys kept his distance from Fogan. I couldn’t work for him or be around him. That would make the hairs on my neck stand up.

    • a2nite says:

      @ MO

      Hope they got paid up front since he’s a dead beat.

    • LadyStClaire says:

      I for the life of me don’t understand, why in the hell would any self respecting AA want to guard his lard ass. if it’s a matter of not being able to find a job, so I can eat, I would apply for food stamps first before I would risk my life and limbs for this shit head. yes indeed, I would keep looking for other employment as well.

      I hate the sight of this murderer and, to think that the state was in his pocket the entire time is, downright wrong.

      • looolooo says:

        @Lady………Certain AA people associate with the likes of Foggage, or clerk for MOM (pretty young thin beautiful AA intern), work for Faux News, become members of the Republican Party, etc, etc, etc. $$$$ & notoriety. Two very enticing reasons.

  6. Shari says:

    A lot of us were saying that all along. We all thought they were throwing the case. Trayvon’s murder was political and AC’s office is full of Tea Party types. It was plain to me that the police and lawyers for the state all supported the murderer. I couldn’t understand what was going on with BDR, the questions he asked, the questions he didn’t ask. I will be following his wrongful termination suit closely.

    • elle says:

      Shari, you were so right. I tend to be too much of a cheerleader and believe everything will always be okay. This case has really opened my eyes.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Shari, I had faith in BDLR and Corey even though I’ve long known (as has much of the southern portion of the state) that Gove . Rick Scott is a crook.

      GIven BDLR’s lack of tough questioning alone during trial, I feel duped.

      • Shari says:

        I know how you feel. Duped. I wanted to believe in the system. I needed to believe because it’s the system I live under.

        The case was lost the night of the murder. Maybe 50 years from now we will get the real story after some young investigative reporter pursues the truth. It really hurts to know so many in government would condone and support the murder of a child to appease their hate.

        Mark Geragos accused the prosecutors of throwing the trial. Anyone watching could see how poorly those witnesses were prepared. That Rachel Jenteal fiasco should NEVER have occurred. It’s sad. A black child can’t walk home safely and even in death is denied humanity and a voice.

        • Rob_UK says:

          One day, voice recognition technology will have advanced sufficiently to where it will be possible to scientifically prove conclusively that it was Trayvon Martin’s voice screaming and begging for his life on that 911 tape and not Zimmerman’s.

          One day the truth will come out and Zimmerman will be exposed as a vicious, racist, depraved, heartless, cynical, sadistic, lying murderer before the whole world.

          • Trained Observer says:

            Good point, Rob. Just as DNA advances have exonerated so many wrongly imprisoned, voice recognition advances (just around the corner, maybe?) should doom claims that the screamer was fatty Fogen. .

          • Trained Observer says:

            And I hope Fogen’s lying, perjuring Uncle Jorge lives to see it.

          • kllypyn says:

            I don’t need voice recognition program to know who was screaming i know a teenagers voice when i hear it. evr4eyone unless the live on an island with no teenager on it should be able to recognize a teenage boys voice.

            every day all around the world as people are on their way to work or other tasks they will hear and see teenagers on their way ti school they will be laughing and talking to each other some will be yelling at their friends across the street. girls boys all of them. that was obviously the high pitched screams of a teenage boy who was panicking. He screamed i don’t know at least twice.The Zimmerpukes continue to make excuses for this man.as he let’s his true nature be displayed for all to see. trayvon wasn’t perfect he was a good kid who like most teens screwed up a few time. He was not known for picking fights with people unlike Murderman.

            He was called a rapist a gang member a drug dealer being involved in child porn.Even Murderman’s lawyer have been in on the act.he was even accused of having a suppressed criminal record. Trayvon Benjamin Martin never had any record. he was never arrested for or accuse or even investigated for a crime unlike Murderman.he was innocent.The very people who always claimed zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. Have accuse a 17 year old murder victim of nearly every crime in the book. A kid with no criminal ,history.the only thing of a criminal nature he may have done was smoke weed. something his Parents dealt with like parents have dealt with it for decades.

            These conservatives always talk about morals and values but they have chosen to lie on a dead kid and his family to justify his murder. While giving murderman a pass on the documented things he has done.DID TRAYVON THROW A WOMAN ACROSS A ROOM,NO.DID TRAYVON ATTACK A COP,NO. DID TRAYVON CHASE AN 8 YEAR OLD BOY HOME NO.DID TRAYVON HARASS HIS NEIGHBORS,NO. DID TRAYVON BEAT UP HIS GIRLFRIEND,NO.WAS TRAYVON INVOLVED IN A ROAD RAGE INCIDENT,NO. DID TRAYVON GET FIRED FROM A JOB BECAUSE HE PICKED ON HIS COWORKERS,NO.

            TRAYVON WASN’T PERFECT AND HIS PARENTS NEVER SAID HE WAS.HE WAS A GOOD KID WHO, LIKE THE REST OF DID DUMB THINGS AS A TEENAGER. NONE OF WHICH INVOLVED VIOLENCE. i FIND IT INTERESTING. A BLACK HAS A FEW MINOR SCREW UPS HE’S CALLED A THUG A WHITE KID DOES THE SAME THINGS NO BIG DEAL KIDS WILL BE KIDS.GO FIGURE. i FIND THEIR CONTINUED EFFORT TO JUSTIFY A MURDER AND GIVE MURDERMAN A PASS ON THE NASTY THINGS HE HAS DONE TIRESOME.

          • LadyStClaire says:

            @Kllypyn, these racist whites have lied so much on a deceased child until, I am wishing evil on them and their kids. you are right in the fact that Trayvon was none of what these evil people have tried to make him out to be.

            As I have mentioned here yesterday or the day before, that someone on facebook is using the photo of Trayvon’s body as their avatar. this should not be allowed but, facebook is allowing it. the way some people in this country has treated this kid, is unbelievable and, unforgivable as well. this kid did not and does not deserve the hatred, that these racist whites are throwing his way.

            In the state of Texas, a 46 yr old white man, shot an eight year old AA boy in his face and, now the little boy is going to have to have reconstructive surgery. right now, he is in stable but critical condition and, he is heavely sedated. he shot this kid just for the hell of it. this is so sad as well as heartbreaking. he had just turned eight on that Sunday before he was shot on that Tuesday of the same week.

            He is under a 2.2 million dollar bond and, I hope he isn’t in PC.

          • @LadyStClaire:

            I know how you feel! I have felt nothing but anger and pain since the verdict. My heart aches for Sybrina and Tracy because we as black people know what it is like to suffer the indignity of racism and discrimination every single day of our lives! Sybrina and Tracy had to endure their son’s killer not being arrested for 44 days!! Then they had to endure the lies told by racists, and Robbie the Racist Zimmerman! They had to endure so many indignities and yet, they continued to conduct themselves with grace and dignity as they listened to lie after lie by the family and friends and Fogen! They had to have had some insight that this entire trial was a farce since the DA didn’t release any of the phone records or text messages, or e-mails of Fogen. All of the DA witnesses were discredited and made to look like FOOLS!

            I have such hate and contempt for Mark O’Moron, West and everyone associated with the cover up! I pray that they all suffer for the rest of their lives! Mark O’Moron conducted himself like an old racist white attorney straight out of the book, ” TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD!” He was disgraceful the way he told so many lies about Trayvon and depicted Trayvon as a “thug” and a fighter. He will pay for that royally. He is going around now whining about, “Not being paid!” GOOD! You get what you deserve!! He is truly one of the worst pieces of shit that I ever encountered as an attorney.

        • lurker says:

          Interesting pic I stumbled upon today. It was from shortly after the trial. O’Mara was on record whining about how gz’s and even his and his family’s lives were endangered, death threats, live in hiding for life, blah, blah, blah. And yet, O’Mara and West were spotted celebrating in some swanky NY restaurant. And guess who was number 3 in the party–Mark Geragos.

          Maybe he had some actual inside info.

  7. racerrodig says:

    Bad day to be anything Fogen related…….said it before and I’ll say it again. It was all a matter of time……no “if” just “when” and hell, there’s no time like the present is there.

    • jm says:

      I hope all of this results in Trayvon’s parents going to civil court and winning a lawsuit against whoever they can implicate in this farce of a trial.

      • Don’t forget that a judgment for $20 million is just a piece of paper with a number on it, if you can’t collect it.

        Does GZ have any assets?

        Probably not, given all the defense costs.

        • jm says:

          I don’t know about GZ’s future earnings. Since he appears to have “groupies” that have supported him in the past, maybe he could write a book they will buy. I also wonder about others that could be held liable if Dr. Bao exposes them.

          What I was amazed to find is people who I would not consider anti-black/racist in my family and circle of friends who did not follow the trial but believed Zimmerman’s story because of the smears and attack on Martin’s character MOM put out there regarding Trayvon Martin.

          • Drew says:

            That’s most friends and family, for me.

            Me, my wife, and one sister against the world.

            The world!

          • looolooo says:

            jm…….. welcome to the wonderful world of being black. We’re dammed if we do, dammed if we don’t. Either way,.. we’re dammed. We’re not likely to receive the benefit of the doubt. Even my white Canadian husband seemed to be some what swayed by the allure of Fogen and MOM. Hmmmn.

          • jm says:

            The Trayvon Martin one-sided smear campaign by MOM swayed a lot of otherwise open minded people. I really don’t see how MOM sleeps at night. I consider MOM evil for trying to protect GZ by attacking a dead black teen on any occasion he found himself in front of a camera and/or using internet. He went way beyond what was necessary to defend his client.

        • lurker says:

          I agree, and I believe that the Martins have been weighing carefully how they choose to invest their time and effort. Up until now I have been thinking that a civil suit might be an expensive, albeit satisfying undertaking, but perhaps less useful than some other forms of expression.

          However, recent events, in particular Dr. Bao’s accusations (not to mention Christi O’Connor’s revelations about some ongoing patterns in the SPD) make me wonder if a civil suit might hold some additional value in putting a few forms of corruption on record.

          • @looolooo:

            Black people are still treated with contempt loooloo! it angers and enrages me to sit here and see so much attention being given to ShelLIE. Who the hell is she but someone who stood by this lunatic and made snide comments and remarks while Fogen was in prison. She does not get my sympathy. Sybrina and Tracy do.They are the ones who lost their son. She didn’t lose anything but that big fat POS of a husband who she aided and abetted in his quest in the cover up!

            I hope Dr. Bao exposes every single one of them, and I hope he hires himself a bodyguard. His life is on the line now. He is going up against, some very powerful people and they are not going to take to kindly to him exposing their corruption!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The GZLC sand castles are crumbling faster than I ever hoped for!

  8. J4TMinATL says:

    Breaks my heart.

  9. JJ says:

    It seemed to me that Dr Shiping Bao was trying to get the truth out. When he tried to get more information out, the defense would object saying Dr Bao was going beyond the question. Dr Bao was trying so hard to get the truth out, but was shut up by the defense objections and the prosecution’s choice of questions. Dr Bao seemed very frustrated by the chains to block truth by the protocol of the legal proceedings. Dr. Bao did everything in his power to get the truth out while the defense and prosecution did everything to get him to either look foolish or zip his lips.
    Bao seemed very frustrated that wet clothing evidence had been placed in plastic bags – “if that is done they would be fired”. Bao probably noticed how everyone (SPD, defense, prosecution) was working to free George.
    Now the truth will not change the verdict. The fogen lovers won’t change their mind no matter what. Hopefully there will be enough truth to get the Feds involved. Wonder if the Feds interviewed Bao, and he burst out with the truth and got fired as a result.
    I just told someone this past weekend who believed fogen deserved to defend himself against a thug – that the truth will come out. And the truth is gradually coming out.
    This will make a great movie or scenario for a TV episode of CSI or Law & Order – someday.

  10. SoulSistaWoo says:

    A Racist Conspiracy Disguised as the Trial of George Zimmerman.

    May each and every single person that participated in this evil act experience their misery and eventual complete downfall.

    *Thank you Professor Leatherman for the updates.

    • Rachael says:

      ☆★☆★☆

    • looneydoone says:

      Two of the trial’s most important witnesses were hung out to dry by the prosecution.
      I hope Dr Bao takes the whole goddamned lot of them down…that of course requires the Justice Dept to step up and pave the way for it to happen. Quite frankly, I don’t believe Eric Holder has the balls it takes to prosecute those complicit in the conspiracy to obstruct justice this dog & pony show trial allowed.

      Take em all down…Wolfinger, Lee, Angela Corey, BDLR, SPD officers, and Judge Nelson for starters

      • lurker says:

        Other question will be whether Eric Holder can get his hands on a smoking gun when it comes to corruption. This may become a really long investigation before anything tangible surfaces. Dr. Bao may say and earnestly believe that there was a wide-spread belief that Trayvon got what he deserved. But–does he have any emails, memos, was he specifically asked to do anything? Consider how long it took to convict the murderer of Medgar Evers, or for there to be an recognition and justice for the destruction and seizure of Rosewind, Florida.

        • looneydoone says:

          There were rumors last year suggesting fogenpop is second generation cia

          What’s known about the mysterious fogenpop ? Where was he born ? How many years in the USArmy ? We know that the last 10 years of his Army career was spent at the Pentagon…but we know absolutely nothing about this man’s history. I’m going to give some weight to the rumors that his influence goes well beyond central Florida.

      • Tzar says:

        so…what about Jeremy?

    • Malisha says:

      amen amen

  11. jm says:

    Of course they (the prosecution) threw the case. Dr. Bao and Rachael were part of the plan to throw it as well as the Sanford police testimony. And then there was BDLR incredibly lame closing argument.

    • I don’t think you meant to suggest that Dr. Bao and Rachel were knowingly involved in throwing the case; rather, that they were used to further that objective without their knowledge or consent.

      Correct?

      • jm says:

        Professor says: “I don’t think you meant to suggest that Dr. Bao and Rachel were knowingly involved in throwing the case; rather, that they were used to further that objective without their knowledge or consent.”

        No Dr. Bao and Rachel were made to look like fools by both the prosecution and the defense, allowing the jurors to question their credibility.

        Never trusted BDLR from the beginning and could not figure if he was incompetent or shady.

      • Malisha says:

        Bao and Rachel and some others were genuine and did their best; nobody can beat a cover-up; cover-ups have ways around EVERYTHING. Nobody would embark upon them if there were the slightest chance of punishment for their perfidy.

  12. Deborah Moore says:

    Thanks, Fred.
    Go, Go, Dr. Bao.
    Loose lips sink ships.
    Between the Zimmermans’ marriage meltdowns and Dr. Bao’s termination, do you think any of the truth will become public knowledge?
    Do you remember how, during the trial, many of us kept thinking, Oh, now we’ll hear about the bullet trajectory, who was zooming who and who was on top?

  13. Valerie says:

    IIRC, Dr.Bao was defensive (as if he was blamed) for Trayvon’s hands not being bagged and the wet clothing?

  14. lurker says:

    FYI–Presser at noon. ClickOrlando is running it live.

  15. Morning! It’s been suggested to me that Bao’s termination came up after more post-trial interviews with the DOJ. As well, same with the breaking down of other witness’s. Watch the rats flee the sinking vessel (mom,etc).

    Perhaps they’re softening up the perpetrator. Wouldn’t be the first time.

    On another note, could his destruction of the ipad be evidence tampering?

    Trayvon is never far from gz – I’d imagine he wakes him up at night and greets him in the morning…these are not sophisticated folks with deep intellectual distractions.

    Time and pressure.

    Sad story still. Enjoy the best of today.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      :)
      Is it you? Good to see you, at any rate.

      • Ola Deborah! Nothing like the good ol’ Leatherman Law Blog to share our common disgust, amazement, anger, utter grief and a heaping of incredulousness at this horrible story.

        The ending will be more horrible I suppose, but the end is nigh I also suppose

        Pheww, sure hope all is well..finally cooling

        and my name change here , I’ve been HAM radio hobbyist since my first CB antenna on the roof in Encino ;) Elijah KJ6KWW

  16. neveragain says:

    everyone saying how dr BOa did a terrible …well I disagree I think he was not very serious on the stand but I don’t see anything he did that was a liability…he seemed like a an easy going happy guy………………….why did they fire him????????????

    Omara kept on asking him dumb question about whether he supervised his subordinates performing their task on Trayvon’s body…he gave the right answerer ..he said they are competent workers……and any body who works there need to be competent…. he explained the procedures on how the workers maintain their license and so on..

    how long have they been working there???? dr BOA explained the procedure for new workers and how long they need to be supervised before they are left to work on their own

    according to omara any and everybody who dealt with the evidence was incompetent

    I would have told OMara how much supervision do you want to take place???? why hire someone if you have to supervise them each and every time they do their job…even if they do their job for a thousand times…then if that then the boss need to be supervised every time and the supervisor need a supervisor and that supervisor need another supervisor and on and on and on

    omara questions were ridiculous…I wouldn’t have smiled like DR boa…I would have cussed him out in the court room and told him to stop asking stupid questions

    I definitely would not maintain my composure and just smile like Dr BOA did…I would have cussed omara out and tell him enough of your ridiculous questions

  17. lurker says:

    Nothing from the i-pad and nothing likely for months. No charges.

    It would appear as though George knew what he was doing when he used a knife to pry it open an destroy stuff inside.

    There was a question about what witnesses saw. Spokesman kind of blew it off–everyone claims something different.

    • Sophia33 says:

      WHAT?!!! Nothing from the iPad? So there is no way to get anything from the memory chip. How does this fucker keep skating out of shit.

      Sorry! This pisses me off.

    • roderick2012 says:

      lurker: Nothing from the i-pad and nothing likely for months. No charges.

      And you would have to assume if they did find any evidence that they wouldn’t just toss it into the garbage or just lie and say there’s nothing on the video that warrants any charges.

      • Sophia33 says:

        My guess is that they already destroyed the evidence. Nothing is gonna come of this.

      • lurker says:

        In fairness, I think this incident has already gotten far more attention than a good many DV calls. Clearly there are some he-said-she-said elements. But there were a bunch of folks there. And gz is on video maliciously destroying the i-pad. And, what Shellie said in her call is consistent with what O’Mara said to the press–which is that gz was armed and touched the location of the gun from the outside of his clothing.

        Maybe they wish there was greater confirmation or maybe they just don’t care.

        Damned shame.

        If his family cares about him they should throw a net over his head and get him back on his meds. Maybe even into some inpatient treatment for awhile.

        • ks says:

          Agree. The coverage of it is almost as important as any charges. It further tarnishes the image of GZ in the general public’s mind and more folks are beginning to speak out about the nut.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I agree KS. Damn shame if the law won’t do anything, but it’s just more karmic grist for the mill. Fogen can’t escape from that.

        • roderick2012 says:

          lurker, it’s obvious that his family only came to Piglet’s rescue for appearances during the trial and it’s back to the dysfunctional Zimmerman family that existed before Trayvon was murdered.

          Trayvon’s murder gave Papa Zimmerman and Robbie an opportunity to express their racist rage and to make some money from the murder of an innocent unarmed black teenager

          • lurker says:

            Grrrrrr, Papa Z and Robbie. Claim all day long not to have a racist bone in their bodies, all the while acting on some of the most clearly racist ways under the sun.

            I fear for this country–bigotry is becoming once again acceptable in “polite” society.

  18. Sophia33 says:

    Looks like those of us who questioned if the fix was in may have been right.

    DISGUSTING!

    But when you look at ALL of the evidence that the prosecution could have used, but didn’t use, it kind of makes sense.

    This trial was about quieting the angry black people. Not about justice.

    • Does it make anyone wonder if they will do the same in the M Dunn case ?

      • Sophia33 says:

        Yep. Don’t trust them.

      • a2nite says:

        @ bonnie

        Yup, another white supremacist will get away with murder.
        Guns win.
        White supremacists win.

      • Valerie says:

        OMG…I hope not.That would be terrible.

      • Woow! says:

        You know those teenagers pointed a gun at Dunn and he feared for his life. Those teens were thugs; one was on probation for truancy so he was already on his way to a life of crime.

        No jury is going to believe a bunch of gang banging black thugs over an upstanding white citizen like Michael Dunn. Oh an don’t forget, he only left the scene of the crime because he was worried about his dog.

        Those boys drove away to hide the shot gun then drove back to the scene. It is only a matter of time before that shotgun surfaces.

    • a2nite says:

      Yes, it was about moldy crumbs for the n****rs.
      A show trial to show how the criminal injustice system really work or does not work. They would have been more honest to have a grand jury come back with ….what ever they say to not have a trial instead of wasting a bunch of money and looking stupid. FUCK the criminal injustice system.

      We need to create wealth, enough wealth that the evil white supremacists in this country will stop messing with us.

      Marching, legislation and electing people has not made things better for black people.

      Good for Dr. Bao for not being the scapegoat for the white supremacists/TBags who run FL. He may be able to make the DOJ do the case. But then, the HNIC can’t make the white supremacists unhappy by having a real justice system.

  19. There are so many questions that were not asked…

    Like the physician assistant said blood from Z’s nose would have been going down Z’s throat.
    So I would have asked her ,how did Z scream while laying on his back and choking on his blood ?

    • MDH says:

      Does this assistant mean the wee amount of blood that might have dripped off the two punctuate wounds on the tip of his nose that might have entered through his lips.

      Do they have eyes?

      There was no blood coming out of the nares in George’s nose.

      Even if he did get some blood from the tip of his nose into his mouth, it would be swallowed along with his saliva.

      Choking on blood is such a lame proposition that insults most peoples intelligence; a jury being selected to not have any brains or common sense might buy that argument. Which they did. That says a lot about them and those who give them support.

      Sure, GZ could have choked on blood, if those massive phantom blows ruptured an artery.

      I guess a phantom bleeder goes along with the phantom subdural hematoma.

      • That was not my point. If the assistant *believed * and testified under oath that Z was swallowing his blood while laying on his back then shouldn’t the prosecution have asked her how is it possible to scream under those circumstances.

        • MDH says:

          Sorry for not being more clear. I should have stated the belief is, in and of itself not plausible, and if it was, then what you said is another realm of the not possible.

          Lies lead to more lies wherein the truth stands fast and propagates more truths.

  20. Sophia33 says:

    I thought really thought that the prosecution was up to no good when Rahcel’s attorney said they did NOTHING to prepare her for her testimony. Then Bao said the same thing during his testimony. I worked on talking points and messaging for many years. I even worked with lawyers in helping witnesses in corporate cases for testimony. I saw a red flag with this.

    Again, DISGUSTING.

    • ks says:

      Good point. Witness prep is so basic that it was either apparently discarded or minimally done is ridiculous. The only one I have abit of sympathy for is the ADA who did all the good legal case work (Mantei?) and was mostly ignored by Judge Nelson.

  21. heveragain says:

    did you guys hear the stupid question that the prosecution ask concerning gz’s bruise on the nose???? the ask a witness on he stand whether gz could have gotten it by falling????? I cold not believe my ears…….how about asking whether trayvon should have elbowed gz in the nose during the scuffle while they were still standing or as some has mentioned the gun recoil……the witness name jane…the out of job teacher…said in an Anderson cooper interview that gz and trayvon was 4 feet away form the grass the entire time…they never ask her about the location of the scuffle at the trial

    • Malisha says:

      SET OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW A BRUISE GETS ON THE NOSE OF A MURDERER:

      1. Could a bruise have gotten on his nose by his having jammed his third finger upward like this [gesturing] and then clumsily jamming it into his own nose?

      YES

      2. Could a bruise have gotten on his nose by his having waved his pinky finger like this at a very angry gay body-builder who then bit him on the nose?

      YES

      3. Could a bruise have gotten on his nose by someone from a racist organization, say, the NBA, having glared at him in such a way as to make him stumble and fall, hitting his nose on the branches of a gingko tree on the way down?

      YES

      4. Could a bruise have gotten on his nose by an ostrich having kicked him?

      YES

      5. Could a bruise have gotten on his nose by his having murdered someone with a kal-tec and having sustained a minor injury when the gun recoiled after he shot his victim in the heart with a hollowpoint bullet?

      YES, that too.

  22. heveragain says:

    I feel sorry for the doctor…but unfortunately he is not gonna win his case….they will do their best to protect the sandford racist corrupt system who treat black homicide differently… a black person gets killed… then he caused his death cause all black men are hostile animals……Bernie de la ronda is not feeling not one bit of guilt ….eve though he jury was racist…at least they should have made an effort but if they made an effort to win the case they would be gong against their buddies …the racist florida police department

  23. Sophia33 says:

    This kind of mess makes me wonder and respect Martin Luther King more and more. How did he and others do it? HOW?!

    Sybrina and Tracy are much better people than I think I could be.

    That’s all I will say about that.

    • dee truth says:

      I wonder what Tracy, Sybrina and Crump are thinking right now. I hope they are compiling all the “stuff” in prep for a civil suit. I love the fact that they are maintaining their usual high class and not sharing every thought to the press.

    • lurker says:

      I believe that is where they draw strength–knowing how many have gone before and brought about small bits of change. They are able to keep focused on a larger picture of justice.

  24. Trained Observer says:

    Police chief: Either Fogen or MOM lied.
    Alternative view: Why not both?

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/11/2602761/lake-mary-police-chief-george-zimmerman-lawyer-lying/

    • MDH says:

      George’s deceptions may have thrown OM under the bus. Pretty soon George is going to be out of friends to lie for him. He is the penultimate coward. He sat their like a potted plant while other lied on his behalf at risk of perjury or their professional reputation. I can’t say I have a lot of sympathy for them, though. Con Man George is as easy to read as a comic book.

      I dedicate this song to them:

    • Boyd says:

      He does not want the circus coming to Lake Mary.

      • lurker says:

        I should think that there might be a collection of LE, police politicians and realtors willing to pool funds to buy him a nice homestead in Alaska or somewhere.

  25. sadlyyes says:

    2 murders,Tray,and the JUSTICE system
    Tray never had a chance…rip

  26. sadlyyes says:

    maybe its time to sue,ALL THE GUILTY PARTIES!

  27. Girlp says:

    Things are falling apart and they should.

  28. Woow! says:

    I can’t imagine how Sabrina and Tracy feel learning that the the prosecution team felt Trayvon got what he deserved. They were supposed to seek justice but was only playing with the parents emotions.

    AC and BDLR should be ashamed. I guess all of those complaints about those two being corrupt may have some merit to them.

  29. Monicajo says:

    First time posting…visit this blog all the time.

    I read this story yesterday and it made me sick! I hope Dr doesn’t settle, and his case goes all the way to trial and we find out the truth. Dr Bao was the only one to talk about trayvon suffering , which showed me he cared as well as officer Raymando.

    This Ipad thing isn’t sitting right with me! I watched the news conference yesterday and LMPD were so confident in retrieving whatever evidence that was on that Ipad! They were saying by Today we could have footage. Now they are saying it could take weeks even months to get the data off the Ipad! But yesterday they were so confident! Now today they are claiming George damaged the Ipad so bad the I.T techs can’t pull the info off the Ipad. I think they found evidence, destroyed it, and are now coming with this lame story about how damged it is.

    • Rachael says:

      Yep. You’d see how fast that evidence would be forthcoming if it showed Shellie was “at fault.” She is now the scapegoat for all. Because she was honest and plead guilty to perjury (which she did out of misguided love for GZ), she will be made to be a liar no matter what happens from here on in. She was set up for it so GZ can continue to skate and now that she realizes it, they will make everything out of her mouth a lie. Not saying it isn’t her own fault, but it is what it is. I don’t know if she knows what really happened that night, but she is the only one paying the price. Well maybe. Maybe there are others who don’t sleep well at night, but I doubt it.

    • MichelleO says:

      It’s complete bullshit that they cannot retrieve video from the Ipad.

      The NRA and Rick Scott desperately want to protect their poster boy. But is he worth it? The police chief doesn’t think so. He said he wouldn’t want to live next door to Sir Psychopath and doesn’t understand why he hasn’t moved on.

    • elle says:

      It will be very interesting to see how things go with Dr. Bao. The county has dishonored him, and he will work hard to restore his honor. I suspect if there is some sort of settlement, it will have to be HUGE.

  30. Boyd says:

    You guys are funny. Even if Dr. Bao testimony was perfect the Jury already had their minds made up.

    Apple can retrieve the video easy. Lake Mary PD will bury it or destroy the chip. I like to know how they’re doing it. Exchanging parts with a working IPad or extracting the video from the chip.

    Any good surface mount tech can remove a memory chip, read the contents or pop it onto an emulator. It’s easy to screw it up though, very tiny, will need a large magnifying glass. I doubt the cops or whomever they hire are technical enough to do it.

    It’ll take months my ass.

  31. MDH says:

    I have another theory. IMO, it does not take much science to prove Zimmerman was lying.

    By letting Bao prove this with forensics, that would make the Sanford PD look like fools in that their assumptions were all wrong.

    I think their is a wee bit of “we can’t let those brown people make us look stupid” in play here.

    IMO, Rachael used common sense and came to a correct conclusion about CAC.

    Again, we can’t have those people make the “good people” look like fools.

    Just a thought balloon that may or may not have merit.

  32. a2nite says:

    What MDH & Boyd said;

    Please see Malisha’s excellent post about why the fix was in:

    http://frederickleatherman.com/category/featuring/malisha/

    • MDH says:

      Malisha is spot on.

      The USA has really not even got to this point:

      How dare a black man show up a white man with his education

      How dare a black man question white authority

      How dare a black man respond to white force with equal force

      So Trayvon had to be shot.

      So the black people who protested whiteauthority had to be shown who controls justice and who is deemed defender of the truth.

      • a2nite says:

        @MDH

        And the evil racist defense attorneys had to get their own whitesplaining “experts”. I’m sure they’re glad that the prosecutors let the murderer give testimony without cross by showing all of that video. & the concrete….what was up with that?

        • lurker says:

          I still have to giggle at the scene of the courtroom in disarray over the term “creepy ass cracker.” The must have made poor Rachel repeat it a dozen times–like they had never ever heard such a thing before.

          • boyd says:

            too bad the child was not educated in where she was, who she was talikng too and the impact of her testimony to help her friends family to get justice.

            that was unnecesary, she wanted to clown around up there. Do her Dave Chappelle routine.

          • Too bad the prosecutor did not prepare her for the courtroom and protect her with appropriate objections to West’s irrelevant and argumentative questions and his improper questions that assumed facts not in evidence.

          • bettykath says:

            So true about the lack of preparation, but even worse was BDLR badmouthing her in his closing, denigrating her education and communication skills. He should have been talking about her good points and the core of her testimony.

          • lurker says:

            Well–I do believe that Trayvon did say that a creepy ass cracka was following him around. She really did not use vernacular except when providing direct quotes from their phone conversations. I agree, she should have been better prepared and shielded by the prosecution.

            But, I’m sorry, the courtroom response to that particular phrase just simply looked ignorant and wholly lacking in cultural sensitivity.

        • MDH says:

          The whitesplaining experts make a mockery of logic.

          Apparently Trayvon was bigger, fitter and stronger because he was athletic looking. He had, based on pictures, a low body fat percentage.

          Bigger?????

          Unless black people are made out of cellular material less dense than other people or their melanin has anti-gravity properties, then that is false.

          Trayvon weighed 158 pounds

          George weighed 207 pounds

          Mass is directly proportional to weight and, unless you belong to the math challenged Kopelli’s gym, 207 > 158.

          Stronger???

          Hardly likely.

          I did the calculations for lean body mass by assuming Trayvon was 8% BF and George was 20%. That gave George a lean body mass advantage of 25lbs. IOW, George had 25lbs more muscle to work with.

          George also was shorter and stockier than Trayvon, thus having shorter lever arms to for his muscles to apply force.

          I contend that it is highly likely George would have a higher deadlift, squat and bench press than Trayvon.

          Ripped low body fat physiques are not commonly associated with strength.

          Look up pictures of Louis Cyr, Pau Anderson and Vasily Alexeev. These men were considered the strongest men in the world during their time on Earth.

          Fitter???

          Maybe, Maybe not. Certainly, aerobic or anaerobic training can make one fit while reducing body fat. However, one can be a lean teenager who can not run a mile whose growth spurt keeps them lean looking.

          Better puncher??

          That may be so, but since when are street fights only decided by punches?

          I knew many grapplers or strong weightlifters who could not punch well that were bouncers because they could grab, hold and control.

          I apply real science to my arguments.

          Whitesplaining is based on the all Negroes have super human strength when enraged KKK race theory and getting suckers on the jury who buy into that crap.

          • Drew says:

            To be honest, I would take my ripped 165 lb teenage self over my current 175 lb older self despite the weight and strength advantage.

            However even back then there’s no way I would have taken on the 200+ pound ex-bouncer ex-marine security dude at our school.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Look at how the conservatives are acting over Obama putting his foot on the desk in the Oval Office. As if no other president has done this before.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Malisha was spot on. I had been saying this from the beginning. It speaks to entitlement. There is an element in this country that feels that it is entitles to treat blacks anyway that they want. How dare Trayvon question Zimmerman’s authority. In fact, some of the comments on HP have expressed this sentiment. “He attacked someone who was just trying to keep an eye on him”. Ever notice ho the story for Zimmerman supporters begins with the actual physical altercation? And mind you, it’s Zimmerman’s version of the physical altercation. The version that Trayvon hit him first. Nothing about Zimmerman following (first by car and then on foot) a teenager. Nothing about Zimmerman continuing to follow after being told it wasn’t needed. It’s just that the crazy black boy didn’t know his place and hit this authority figure out of the blue. It never enters these folks mind that Trayvon Martin had the right to stand his ground.

        This is one of my favorite scenes of all time for many reasons. First, it was very bold for Sidney Poitier to say that he wanted it written in that he slapped him back.

        Second, years ago Will Smith did an interview with Oprah and spoke of meeting Nelson Mandela. He told Mandela that he was ready to quit acting and work in South Africa and Mandela told him not too. Nelson Mandela said that when he was in prison the part where Sidney Poitier strikes back was cut out of the movie. He said that he knew that something very powerful had to have happened for them to have cut that part of movie. Mandela told Will Smith that it was one of the things that kept him going. The possibility of getting out of prison and finding out what was cut out of that film. So he told Will Smith how important and powerful acting can be and to not quite what he was doing.

        From that story I learned to value whatever I do because you never know what impact it can make.

        • lurker says:

          The attack story should have been challenged head on in court. It never made any rational sense at all. Behavior has meaning and motivation.

          The only context in which gz’s story makes sense is one in which black males are hostile and violent creatures who attack unprovoked at will. Trayvon had no reason or motive for any attack–particularly if it involved “doubling back.” No reason to suspect robbery or revenge. George kept looking until he found him and then went off on him. In no way is this legal behavior that should have triggered the SYG protection from the jury instruction. George accosted Trayvon (physically) and when he resisted, shot him.

          • This is the reason why I said long ago that a person has to be a racist to believe GZ’s ridiculous story.

            I’ll say it again. Only white racists believe that crap.

          • a2nite says:

            @lurker
            That is a 400 year old narrative provided by evil white supremacist men to make it easier to kept a jack boot on our men folks necks, before & after slavery. & making white people afraid so they buy more guns……

            White people have all the guns & own gun manufacturing so I don’t understand other than to make it easier or lynch us one by one

          • Sophia33 says:

            Exactly. And as a2nite said, that is the 400 year narrative. The savage black person attacked Zimmerman out of the blue. Absolutely NUTS.

    • bettykath says:

      i don’t disagree with Malisha’s description but I think there is a more tangible motive. As I said before, everything was fine with the white racist structure in place until the Rev.s came to town with their crazy idea that Trayvon should have justice and they got all of “those” people all riled up by demanding an arrest. To quiet “those” people, the arrest was ordered and the prosecution given to a politically adept and probably corrupt da with orders to throw the case for the purpose of showing, not just “those” people, but the leaders, just how powerless they really are. I believe this was directly from the governor’s office.

      To some extent they succeeded but I don’t think they expected the amount of organizing that resulted by the verdict. A new civil rights march is underway with Trayvon leading it.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Betty, I agree with you to. The night of the verdict, my father said that Angela Cory and team seemed relieved when Fogen got off.

        • lurker says:

          Angela Cory’s response was embarrassing. BDLR at least had the decency to express surprise and regret.

          • Sophia33 says:

            I didn’t see it. I couldn’t after the verdict. But that is what my father said. He said she was smiling.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            sophia says

            I didn’t see it. I couldn’t after the verdict. But that is what my father said. He said she was smiling.

            it was surreal — corey was grinning from ear to ear as if she had just won the miss universe title. she acted as though she were celebrating the sweetest victory of her career. i could not believe my own eyes or ears.

        • elle says:

          AC talked like a freaky caricature of a human being at that press conference. It was disturbing to watch. The only genuine person who spoke at that press conference was Richard Mantai.

      • a2nite says:

        @bettykath

        Rev Al did not come from nowhere. TMs parents did not get any satisfaction from the evil KKKSPD/ prosecutor. They are taxpaying residents but hey wrong color so what the fuck.

        Did the evil police care? NO His parents cared.

        This isn’t law & order with honorable police & Jack McCoy. They called for help. That’s what Rev Al does. People ask; he comes. He brought more heat than light…..but people are pissed. Even many white people are pissed. But my solution is in an early thread.

        There was no reason that TM is dead, NONE. There is no reason the the monster is out other than that is what the system is designed to do. So fuck the system.

  33. Woow! says:

    Florida’s legal system from the judges, police officers, attorney’s, and the governor’s office is one big klan rally.

    JN let the defense team get away with disrespecting her court as well as introducing things that should have never been put before the jury. Voir dire was a joke.

    Juror B29 can kiss my black ass. How dare she go around now saying how bad she feel. Phuck her, she knew that man was guilty and she let those women change her mind. What did mean “more educated women”? That woman had no business on the jury and neither did 37.

    The other jurors have remained quiet and it is best that they do. We do not need to hear anymore nonsense from the jurors.

    • lurker says:

      Maybe. From a legal reform standpoint, I think it is important to consider how SYG impacted the jury instructions and the fact that they claim to have felt bound under the law to let a killer walk.

      • a2nite says:

        @ lurker

        The jury instructions include SYG language. Also, I would bet lots of money that the evil murderer knew the SYG law & what needed to be done. Now it helped that the only witness was black & dead & this happened in the most racist part of FL. So it was aok with the evil SPD/local prosecutor.

        A good n is a dead n.

        • lurker says:

          Oh, yeah. He knew. His whole story was built around it.

          But, BDLR let the defense get away with taking the witness whose expertise was in testifiying that Z had studied SYG and done right well with it and leading him into territory (witness instruction) that rightly belonged to the judge ro explain.

      • Woow! says:

        @lurker, I do not believe neither of the jurors understood the law. I do believe based of B29 statement last night that J37 explained the law to them and they took her word for it because her husband is a lawyer. SYG did not apply in this case so why was it included in the jury instructions?

        The sequestration was a joke, mini vacation for women.

        • lurker says:

          Apparently the ramifications of the law are somewhat broader than we assume. Either the law deliberately expands upon all self-defense cases and is specifically required in the jury instruction, or the judge decided on her own to put it there. In any case, it was there.

      • Malisha says:

        SYG supported Trayvon Martin’s actions (if any) that evening but NOT his murderer’s.

    • a2nite says:

      @ Woow!

      X2

  34. Woow! says:

    I wonder what was in CAC criminal and medical history that MOM did not want to get out. We know George is crazy but there was something there that really scared MOM if it got out.

    Does anyone know?

    • lurker says:

      Hard to say. A lot of O’Mara’s stuff was misdirection. But, I’ll wager that there was a MH diagnosis in there somewhere–probably something like bipolar disorder.

      • Woow! says:

        MOM and every defense witness outright lied.

        Everyone lied except for Rachel and Dr. Bao.

        • bettykath says:

          Rachel said what she had to say. Dr. Bao wasn’t allowed to say what he knew. Neither did Chris Serino get to say all that he knew. I don’t think Serino lied, I think he was prevented from telling all.

          The prosecution cherry-picked their witnesses and then controlled them. They didn’t have to call John Goode. The defense would have and the prosecution could have impeached his testimony. And where was Jeremy?

          I think there is evidence of racial profiling and there is evidence that was either not presented or that was skewed, enough that the feds should be successful if they seat a 12 person jury.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @lurker — while i am not qualified to diagnose anything, i will say that gz’s behavior reminds me of almost every bi-polar i have known and that’s a long list.

      • Girlp says:

        My brother worked with mental health patients and in the school system in CT he say’s Bi-Polar and ADHD is a very bad mix they can be extremely violent.

        • lurker says:

          The symptoms can track very closely–but there are some distinctions. The problem is that if bipolar is misdiagnosed as ADHD, some of the stimulant meds can actually trigger mania. I have known both persons with well-controlled (with medication) bipolar disorder and persons with out of control bipolar disorder. For me the tip-off was Shellie’s description of feeling invincible. That sounds like mania to me. Not to mention his road trip ro Texas, not going anywhere in particular, three known affairs since just before the trial started.

          • Girlp says:

            Hmmmm then the ADHD may have been misdiagnosed with ADHD, my son is diagnosed with both and he is very impulsive without meds (not like George) and has grandiose ideas he thinks he can do anything and it’s ok he won’t get in trouble. On his meds you can talk to him and he understands there are consequences to his actions such as driving without a licence can get you in a lot of trouble off meds he believes there is no way he’s can get in trouble….there’s much more than that but he is very smart and a pleasure to be around on his meds, can be easily angered not on his meds. Unlike George he does not blame others when he does something wrong and realizes he needs his meds.

    • pat deadder says:

      What was in fogen’s phone records and does DOJ have them.I don’t think BDLR knew at the beginning he was to throw the case because at first he was doing ok.

  35. Woow! says:

    Trayvon Martin’s death is clearly a tragedy in every sense of the word but it has nothing to do with ‘Stand Your Ground’, gun control or the second amendment. This is about psychology and badly warped judgment by a single individual. A perfect storm of events, misperceptions and, yes, prejudice.

    by Dr. Dale Archer

    In other words TM is dead because of a bipolar nutcase that refuse to take his meds.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s kinda tough for many kind and upstanding people with bipolar disorder who aren’t anything like Fogen . . . just sayin’. Many in my family are lovely, creative people who don’t deserve to be lumped into his category.

      • Sophia33 says:

        I agree. This is not bipolar! This is psychopathic behavior.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          bi-polar is by it’s very definition psychopathy, but there is a huge spectrum when properly diagnosed with sub classifications. i know many who are talented, loving, peaceful people and have known those with violent tendencies as well (my father, among others). george’s spree of bad behavior at this point in time reminds me very much of my dad’s manic phases as an unmedicated bi-polar with severe paranoia…. and i am not qualified to diagnose.

          • a2nite says:

            @faux

            Please don’t blame mental illness on this rotten monster’s behavior. We don’t know what his diagnosis is, if any..

            If he has anything it’s personality disorder (sociopath) not a mood disorder (bi-polar). I just call him evil & racist based on his behavior.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @a2nite — to be very clear, i do not blame the murder on mental illness. i am qualified to diagnose nothing — although george’s med load speaks for itself, there is clearly some mental illness involved in his diagnosis which also includes ADHD. i stated on another thread that the last few weeks of george’s spree of bad behavior that it reminds me very much of my own (unmedicated) bi-polar father’s manic phases. i’ll stand by that.

          • Sophia33 says:

            Hey faux it was so nice seeing you around!!! {wink}

            Psychopathy is a personality disorder, which is Axis II on the DSM. Bipolar is Axis I on the DSM. Axis I are all diagnosis except personality disorders and mental retardation. More and more, people are looking at Axis I as things that are organic in nature. Psychopathy and sociopathy fall under antisocial personality disorder, which is a complete and total violation of rights of others.

            But no matter what, I think we can all agree that Fogen is not right upstairs.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            sophia — my own schooling in the area is admittedly from the early 80s and i know things have changed. it used to be that things were clearly divided into psychopathy and sociopathy and i have not kept up with all of the changes. i knew that was no longer the case, but was unclear on the subtleties.

            i know that my own father’s bi-polarism was an organic brain chemistry issue which could be treated fairly effectively and much better now than when he was diagnosed in the late 60s. he did choose to not medicate (except with bourbon) and those manic phases were ROUGH.

            the last few weeks of george’s public issues just remind me of that.

            we can certainly agree on the night right upstairs part (wink, wink).

          • Boyd says:

            My Wife and I have spent thousands on my youngest son Bi-P since he was 14. They may have just now after 8 years figured out what type he has. And the meds? he does not take them because he says they do not work. They change them all the time. let’s try this or that. It’s a mess.

            It’s sad he’s a bright kid. did well enough to get accepted to Franklin Marshall in Lancaster,Pa a good quaker like school. But only wanted to be in a psychadelic rock band in Philly then the bi-polar got worse and then came the drugs that go with that music. And boy, my wife and son would make trips to the abandoned houses these kids take over in the cities to retrieve his butt then hide it from me.

            But he does not get violent, and he’s back in school acting normal now. he’s got a double-double Bi-Polar depression so says the latest analysis.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @boyd — that’s rough stuff, man. i have obviously been around bi-polars with varying sub diagnoses all my life. i would say that an unusually large percentage of my friends (and some family) are bi-polar, i’ve seen all kinds. i don’t know why so many of my friends are but i’m guessing that my ability to deal with those ups and downs is simply a trait i was born with out of necessity. i wish you and your wife the best (and your son as well). it’s no day at the beach and i know it.

            oh, since he chooses to not medicate (and i know the difficulties with the side effects of meds as well) i will give you a ray of hope. my father’s illness became much less dramatic as he aged, specifically after 50 and continued to have less impact as he aged. the miracle is that he made it that long without suiciding or committing homicide. regardless, life was markedly better for him and those who loved him. i guess at some point the human body just can’t keep up that pace (and i’ve found some research to support that).

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh, and it does not surprise me at all that he is exceptionally bright, it often goes with the territory. if you have not yet, check out the various sites that list the exceptionally gifted people with bi-polar. it’s pretty amazing.

          • lurker says:

            boyd and faux-thank you both for sharing. I also have some close to home experiences with bipolar disorder and have spent some family time with experiences similar to yours.

            Just speculating here, as we all are, I would not be surprised for gz to have sociopathy layered on top of his disorder. And this is based on my observation that his family ain’t right. We have heard of a few outright dysfunctions (abusing his cousin, locking down his mother’s electricity, years of members not speaking to one another), on top of which they display no compunction about rallying the troops to lie for one another or utilize whatever influences are available to protect George from the consequences of his actions. This is the stuff that breeds sociopathy and lack of conscience, maniplation and so forth.

            Interesting case study.

          • Sophia33 says:

            Faux:

            They keep changing the DSM and in between changes letting out to everyone how they may change it and the backtracking but not doing so before people start accepting there possible changes. It’s a mess.

            There should be a category called, “Ain’t right upstairs”. That is my clinical diagnosis of Zimmie.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yeah, i’m aware of the DSM mess, it’s kind of why i quit paying attention to it. we had a copy of that and the PDR at my job at the women’s shelter, but the DSM is a disaster these days and getting worse.

            i’m happy to work with your working diagnosis :)

      • Two sides to a story says:

        There are certainly bipolar people who are perpetually angry and capable of Fogen behavior, but most are not like him. I had a very trouble grandfather and he had a very troubled brother. There was little diagnosis in their day and they both did some very ugly things.

  36. Two sides to a story says:

    The Lake Mary police report for the 9/9 incident. Sure were a lot of people present. Confirms that the blonde lady was not Fogen’s ex, but someone else.

    http://twitdoc.com/upload/jeffweineros/zimmerman-report.pdf

  37. Sophia33 says:

    This is a very funny satire. To the point that I thought it was true for a moment. Very “Onion”-like!

    http://nineinchnews.com/george-zimmerman-shoots-his-attorney/

  38. Two sides to a story says:

    “Eugene Johnson III, a helper hired by Shellie Zimmerman’s father, told police that George Zimmerman was very aggressive appeared to reach for a gun and said, 2 ‘Come towards me. You are threatening me,’ ” according to the report.

    You can pretty much infer from this how he talked to Trayvon Martin.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20130911,0,2640693.story

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Oh, get this also: “A woman in George’s truck, Samantha Scheibe, told police that there were guns in his truck but that she and George had concealed-weapons permits for them.”

    • boyd says:

      Based on that, they have enough to arrest. IMHO. Im not lawyer.

      Now should they find something he took that does not belong to him and Viola! You got a OJ case.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Yep. He’s been doing this for years and has it all down pat. Fogen just got a little carried away with Trayvon, who he assumed was a throw-away adult with a long rap sheet.

    • MDH says:

      Another quote from the article that is Zimmerman’s alibi:

      “A friend of Zimmerman’s who was there that day, Wesley Robinson, a 6-foot, 350-pound man, told police that Shellie’s father went after George Zimmerman, and Robinson stepped in to separate them and restrained Dean. When he let Dean loose, he said, Dean went after George Zimmerman again.

      Robinson said his forearm accidentally hit Dean in the face during the altercation…”

      Why on Earth would a little old guy like Dean charge after George in light of a 6 foot 350lbs man providing protection?

      Typical Coward, George starts his confrontations with the deck stacked in his favor.

  39. Mary Davis says:

    @ Professor. If Dr. Bao can sue AC and the SPD, can the Martin family sue them also for this mock trial? After all, anyone can see they has no intention of getting justice for Trayvon. When you look at what is coming out about the jury, and how the prosecutors drooped the ball, it’s easy to see that the Martin family never had a chance for true justice.

    I think if they forget about the NWACP and get a power house lawyer, the Martin’s might get some justice for their son’s murder after-all.

  40. Allison says:

    The police reports from Zimmermans latest bad behavior were quite interesting. They are posted on click Orlando

  41. Trained Observer says:

    From the OS, referencing Fogen’s companion, Samantha Scheibe in his schruck:

    “A woman in George’s truck, Samantha Scheibe, told police that there were guns in his truck but that she and George had concealed-weapons permits for them.

    Sheibe, according to the report, was shaken by what had happened.

    Her relationship with George Zimmerman was not immediately clear.”

    Pure poetry: Scheibe in his schruck.

  42. Mary Davis says:

    The truth, as quiet as they are trying to keep it, is finally coming to light. I do believe more people are gonna be exposed, just wait and see.

    I also believe that fogen is gonna be exposed, but the sad part about that is, there is nothing we can do about it now. What a shame.

    • We have to cultivate patience.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      We have to remember too that “all those who do harm are like a precious treasure.”

      Dang Fogen will cause a lot of good things to happen through his bad behavior in a backhanded way – like teach us the practice of patience. His behavior has spurred lots of positive action by the TM Foundation, the Dream Defenders, action from Mr. Leatherman and others on this blog and others, and in many other actions.

  43. boyd says:

    you need video now to arrest someone. When he hurts someone they should fire and sue that entire Police leadership.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @boyd — makes you wonder how we ever managed to arrest folks back in the good old days without constant video surveillance, doesn’t it? : /

    • a2nite says:

      @boyd
      If you’re black you do, it worked with Rodney King & that kid in Oakland right?

      Never mind…….white supremacists can do whatever they want to us, get away with it & their cover is to point to gang violence in CHI.

  44. Kate says:

    OMG!! I can believe this!! Many of you and many of my friends and many of the other blogs were saying the same thing and IT WAS ALL TRUE DAMMIT!!! UGH!!! What can be done about this!! UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    UGH and UGH again!! What recourse do the Martins have?!!? Stand Your Ground laws as I have said many many many times before should be outlawed as they are prejudicial to a particular group. The justice system has taken a stand to use it in this particular manner as well!

    UGH!!! This country is still ensnared in this racial battle, only they are now using the legal system to lynch African Americans or people of color in this country!

    • UGH!!! This country is still ensnared in this racial battle, only they are now using the legal system to lynch African Americans or people of color in this country!

      They’ve been using it for a long time. For example, think about the disparities in sentencing black defendants for crack compared to white defendants for powder cocaine.

      • Kate says:

        Absolutely Professor! There are studies that back you up on that too, and many statistics show a disproportionate amount of people of color in prison. But we don’t need statistics to tell us that. You have probably seen in first had when working with the courts, which I do believe you have mentioned before. Some of the prisons have statistics on their websites that show the percentage of certain groups. For example, I went to the South Carolina prison system website and the statistics clearly show an overwhelming amount of disparity among the legal system.

        They have put another black eye on the legal system. This was not how it was designed to work. I am outraged that they even half heartedly put on such a case because they felt the victim deserved what he got. Unconscionable and disgusting to see our legal system turned on its face like this. But it isn’t just against people of color, it is against the poor and so many other groups as well. Shame on them! Shame!

  45. Kate says:

    So there was no fair fight and it can be deemed that Mark OMara did not win his case based on all the whoopla going on here!! The Prosecutor’s office is going to hear from me. I know they don’t care but at least they will know that I am 1 in many who are P>O at them! Stupid SOBs have just proved the system is geared towards the take down of groups of people in this country.

    Justice is not blind and it is more proof that it has a vendetta against many of the people in this country. The poor, the people of color, the young, the disabled, women, people of certain political affiliations, people of certain ethnicities and so on.

  46. PYorck says:

    It is difficult to watch all this as a foreigner.

    I know that it doesn’t fairly represent the whole American legal system. I understand that many differences are the result of a very different tradition and different underlying assumptions but have their own internal logic. I also realize that our legal system is far from perfect. I could cite enough reminders of that.

    But damn, I think you can imagine that this case has not exactly improved my opinion of the American legal system.

    • a2nite says:

      Yeah it does

    • bettykath says:

      Our opinion isn’t all that great either. :-(

    • colin black says:

      PYorck its easy to mock America at times with its almost jerry Springeresqe

      Mentality with your white trash Misty Criosslin an Ron Cummings pillybilllys Nacy Graces over the top theatricals Newa as showbiz.

      Seems jaw dropping to me as a Brit .

      An nutjobs like trunkmom an fogggage roam home on the plain were the deer an the batshitcrazy roam.

      But that would be hypoctytical we have even worse charecters than fogagges an trunkmom an given Americas vast size an population 700 million to our 60 million

      We with our Fred an Rose Wests Beverly Alllits Dennis Neilson are in a glass house if we want to have a go at the Yanks.

      An as for promoteing weirdos accidents waiting to happen or predatory peodophiles over the years G Glitter J Savile Rolf Harris turns out

      BBC means BEST BUGGERING CHILDREN.

      An then theres that fucking Mick Philpott an his depraved wife neen mollycodelled an pandered to for years become media fodder on every chat show.

      Even had A Widdocome stak at there home fot a week.

      A lazy scrounger whom hag multiple children by multiple partners an lives with a mini harem whom demanded bigger homes without working just living on benefits?

      An we in the UK KNOW HOW that fucker ended up making even fogaggage noy quite as evil by comparison eh murdering 6 of your own CHILDREN an trying to frame your ex because she had the audacity to leave you ranks pretty low.

  47. Thrace says:

    George says Dean threw his own glasses on the ground (riiight), charged him and GZ fell back. When he got up Dean become more aggressive and tried to attack him……Have we not heard this story before?

    It is more than obvious GZ started it all from the moment he got out of another truck. Snapping pics, sticking his head in other people’s car, running his mouth, locking the front door & shutting garage door on people.

    • Rachael says:

      we’ve heard this story many times. it’s always someone else.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Of course , it’s always someone else’s fault and never Fogen’s fault.

      • Thrace says:

        I was just struck how it was almost identical to his tale of what happened with Trayvon. Dean charges him & he falls back – Trayvon punches him and he falls back. GZ gets up, Dean becomes more aggressive and tries to attack him – GZ gets up and Trayvon attacks and become more violent.

        • a2nite says:

          @ Thrace

          Dean is a white man & he’s alive. That might get him somewhere.

          • Thrace says:

            I don’t believe GZ was attacked or ended up on his back in that garage. He just used the story that worked for him last time again. With the exception of shooting Dean – he used his friend came to rescue him instead.

        • MDH says:

          All the while, there is this 350 lbs bodyguard there to help George.

          George sure earns his PHD – piled high and deep

          • Woow! says:

            His friend better be careful lying for him.

          • colin black says:

            Its not a bodyguard percy or even per ce.

            Its just one of his hommmies from back in the day ….

            He is huge an its a good way to spend free cash have your huge Godzilla mate shadow you.

            Call him a body gaurs an claim five garand every two an a half days

            Ten grand a day an you pay hip fifty bucks a day an all the kenntucky he can eat

            Easy money if you can get the gig..

        • Rachael says:

          It’s what happened with his girlfriend and the undercover cop too. It is his MO

    • Girlp says:

      George went to the house knowing she was there they were texting each other he told her to call him when she got to the house, I don’t know what or if they will find anything on the ipad, but I’m leaning toward he started it. Next time she needs to get a police escort to get her things.

    • colin black says:

      In his defence we do know foggage cannot stomackh an opent garade door.
      IOts one of thefew things his stomach cannot handle.

      He has prior form an history ie garage doors being a jar an will phone 911 if he spots a garage door impersonating a container for coffee.

      We know he is a d h a because he said so under oath an it could be a compulsion part of his illness.

      He spots a garage door either near or even afar.

      An if its ajar he is compelled to interveine even if it puts him in between .

      A gloch an a hard place.

      Nothing to do with race just his distase for peoples private place being forced in his face..

      For he is like tumble weed always moveing from place to place.

      An never acumliates possesions or cherished things an memorys so many.

      You run out of space but you cannon part with memmorys you adore an dont need to hide them behind closed door.

      All fogaggage leaves as he drifts from place to place is an extreamly bad taste.

      We all unless your lucky know his type.

      Losers an eejits that cant do no right there vampires whom suck the life blood out of all they encounter.

      Drain energy from a room when they enter as there very souls are vacuums so they drain eveyones spirts plummet.

      I told you the other day he is major weird a L E / Drama Junkie he gets no thrill form cocaine chapage just drives him insane.
      He gets his thrill from Old Bill/LE.

      And guns an notoriety throw in major narrasist an feelings of being above the law of the land wich seems to be any white of non AA citizen in florida.

      I see no happy ending to this one man freak show.

      I can see one of Shellies wishes in her divorce plea being granted but not in the way she wanted or perceived.

      Life Insurance sure thing jointly one for foggage one for Shellie valid whilst there still married.

      Got to make sure his unborn kids are well provided for.

      Say a million dollars double indemnity if one of them is murdered 2Million treble indemnity if one of them dies whist another party is forced to shoot them whist S T G.3 million.

      Icant forsee foggage have any proplemo with an insurance policy like that.

      .

  48. MDH says:

    George is doing the usual. He knows there is going to be video and he will start throwing shit out there that he feels might best fit what they may eventually get.

    Look at how he kept on modifying his Trayvon tale.

    First it was an MMA beatdown

    Next it was choking on blood

    Then it was his mouth and nose covered

    Ever watch 48 hours?

    When a black male tries that, the police get up in their face and call them liars or try to trip them up.

    Not so with George.

    Serino even helps him out.

    Serino: You don’t have no defensive wounds to your arms and hands

    George: I don’t know

    Serino: Well, that could be due to the sleeves on your jacket buffer the blows

    Serino: Hear that scream

    George: That’s not me

    Serino: It is you

    • Splendid investigative work by Serino.

      Here’s your script, George.

      • Kate says:

        Oh Serino did it plenty of times. Even telling the killer at one point that it is him screaming on the tape. You know….like a teacher giving a child the answers on a test.

        Serino and Singleton are a joke. Neither should be in law enforcement. Perhaps they should find work in another field like sanitation engineering.

        • And never forget that Serino was hand-picked for the job.

          • MDH says:

            Yep, a Bill Gillespie without a Tibbs.

            It could have been different.

            Serino: We have the motive which is give the CAC a MMA beat down, the head which is bashed, and the mouth that was choked.

            Tibbs: Lt. he would have needed three arms.

            See how easy it is to close a case when you don’t have those pesky black folk asking questions?

  49. Woow! says:

    I want to know how is it benefiting all of these people to protect CAC. Why are they still giving this man a pass?

    Wolfinger – what did he have to gain
    SPD – their cover-up brought the feds to their house
    Judge Nelson – unfreaking believable that she smiled before reading the verdict
    BDLR – maybe he was following instructions from AC
    AC – disgrace and I do not think Rick Scott had to tell her to throw the case, she wanted to.
    Serino and the lady cop – a stray bullet need to light a fire in their tales.

    It is amazing that people can get rich or make a come up off being racist, junya and taffee

    • Trained Observer says:

      Wolfinger – what did he have to gain: JUST DOIN A FAVOR FOR AN OLD ARMY BUDDY
      SPD: THEY DON’T COTTON MUCH TO BALAACKS
      Judge Nelson — unfreaking believable that she smiled before reading the verdict: NOW SHE’S REASSURED OF RE-ELECTION
      BDLR – maybe he was following instructions from AC: Ya think?
      AC = disgrace and I do not think Rick Scott had to tell her to throw the case, she wanted to: BECAUSE SHE KNEW THAT’S WHAT HE WANTED.
      Sereno and lady cop — a stray bullet need to light a fire in their tales : THEY NEEDED TO PROTECT THEIR PENSIONS.

      I think their lives are going to get worse for this behavior.

      • Woow! says:

        Thanks

        by the way— there are no racists on this site just friends, we do not have to tip toe around the word black :) no one will get offended.

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        Trained Observer says “I think their lives are going to get worse for this behavior.”

        That is my daily prayer… Misery and finally their eventual complete downfall.

    • a2nite says:

      @’Woo!

      Evil white supremacy is served. Evil white people can continue to have a jack boot on our necks since there is no safe place for us. & for the evil assholes we have been here long than most people, but we get fucked & betrayed always.

      The evil monster, his evil fans including B37, remind us of that. It is open season on our men folk, honey.

      Evil white people have the guns, own the govt, own the means of weapons manufacturing. We don’t own any industry. We are good dog consumers, but we will get exterminated like the native Americans.

      White Americans want to be us but hate us. We make America cool but we will never be white enough.

  50. Thrace says:

    Anthony DiLorenzo‏@ADiLorenzoWFTV56s
    BREAKING: Shellie Zimmerman to break her silence. Holding press conference with her attorney at 6pm in Orlando.

    • PYorck says:

      I just hope she has something more interesting to tell than her recent backpedaling.

    • Boyd says:

      sounds like bullsheet. She did not file charges, He did not file charges, so expect more teasing and wait to buy the book.

      I have to restrain myself because deep down I think we all could be getting fooled. Daddy, Shelly, Fogen in on a game to reap a million dollar book deal. I have to reserve some skepticism.

  51. Kate says:

    Mark OMara did not win his case. His case was handed to him.

  52. Dave says:

    http://www.classmates.com/people/Samantha-Scheibe/8694517787

    I just thought you might like to see a better pic of Ms Scheibe. BTW there seems to be at least one Samantha R Scheibe in Pensacola.

  53. Kate says:

    Not only was Shipping Bao ill prepared, so was the key witness Rachel Jeantel!! The other witnesses for the defense were there to help corroborate the killer’s “story” by mediocre, substandard, haphazard questions aimed at proving nothing.

  54. Boyd says:

    If what Bao said is true, how does he prove it?

    • He expresses his expert opinion and demonstrates it with diagrams.

      • Boyd says:

        you made that sound easy

      • MDH says:

        That information is available on this site.

        I wonder what the other six points are?

        Do you think he will say there was not enough DNA blowback from the shot entering Trayvon that would be expected from a body on top of a shooter?

        The reason I bring up shot blowback is that the paid shill for the defense used that to try to get Phil Specter off of the hook.

        As I understand the principle, a shot entering a body cavity creates a back pressure that ejects blood in a direction in 180 degree opposition to the shot direction.

  55. Brandy says:

    I can hear Shellie now…. I over reacted and I thought George had a gun Blah, blah, blah. She is being put up to this by Lawyers, George to do damage control. Shellie has to protect her cash flow from her cash cow period.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That would be sad – but entirely possible! I wouldn’t be surprised at anything in this case.

    • a2nite says:

      @brandy

      She’s a convicted perjurer. She is screwed because her evil husband knows how to work the system. I’m sure she doesn’t want to go to jail. I mean she lied for him. He has significant leverage over her.

      She needed to call the police beforehand so that she would have reliable witnesses. She’s stupid & can’t feel too bad for her. She’s still alive; her father is alive; TM ain’t.

  56. Brandy says:

    and the lies begin

  57. ks says:

    Anything interesting so far?

    • Thrace says:

      She found a shoulder holster packaging in the house on Saturday. George usually wears his shirts always buttoned up but when he came up to the house, three buttons were undone and GZ put his hand inside the shirt (where this shoulder holster would be).

      George wasn’t suppose to come the house until she was done. She was going to text him when she was ready to leave. He showed up anyway. Atty provided copies of texts and emails about this arrangement to the press.

    • PYorck says:

      No big surprises, more confrontational than I expected, but no real conclusion so far.

      • Thrace says:

        She hasn’t said a word. The atty is answering all the questions.

        Sounds like GZ disabled the a/c unit when Shellie was moving at one point. Another story we’ve heard before.

        • Rachael says:

          Yeah. He needs some new material. You know, someone is going to write a new script for him and it is not going to have a happy ending.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Shades of the power box lock at Gladass’s house. Fogen’s one big vindicitive T U R D. Eventually he will get his.

      • Thrace says:

        Its wrapped up. He did all the talking because of fear of prosecution. Nothing real new. Just a way to reinforce that Shellie is being open and truthful about what happened on Monday.

        She did call the atty before she went over there and asked if she should call the Lake Mary PD to go with her. He (the atty) told her no. That was the wrong call as we see. Shellie just wants everything to die down and get out of the marriage – that’s why no charges

        Atty’s personal opinion is GZ coming across as charming and one of guys, witty etc…but he doesn’t live with him. People who live with someone see a different side. Insinuating GZ is really an Eddie Haskell type asshole.

  58. Sophia33 says:

    What is being said Internet is bad where I am.

  59. Brandy says:

    It’s called intimidation what George did with the gun. That is very threatening what he did and he should of been arrested

    • Woow! says:

      George is going to pull his gun on the wrong person and they are going to light him up.

      He may have gotten off once, but he is pushing his luck to thing the KKK will get him off a second time. People are smart and they are not going to let the courts handle his next trial.

  60. Woow! says:

    Shelly needs a better attorney.

  61. Boyd says:

    ABC/NBC/CBS might turn it into a series.

    Sure wish they just come out and say it “we think the jury got it wrong”

    I knew it was nothing

  62. Woow! says:

    Woow I just skimmed a few news sites and people are calling Shelly and evil opportunistic biotch trying to destroy CAC.

    I guess she knows how Tracy and Sabrina felt with folks bashing their child. Karma.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Very well said! And remember she helped with that when she accused Tracy Martin of silly name calling.

    • a2nite says:

      @woow

      Americans love evil predatory men. Evil monster is a perfect example. She is a convicted liar. She’s stupid. & evil esp since she didn’t have some kind of law enforcement there as witnesses.

      Can’t feel bad for her. She lied for him. She gets screwed.

      America hates victims since America was created for evil predation.

  63. Brandy says:

    Shellie lawyer is an embarrassment! OMG I cant watch anymore. He is a fricken idiot!!

  64. We want this marriage to end with a whimper and not a bang.”

  65. Kate says:

    OMara wants 200k from the state of FL and now Shipping Bao may get 100 million. How ya like that state of FL!! Your on the hook for all the money as that clown rides off into the sunset with his donated blood money. Whoopeeee

  66. Lawyer: “If I were going to try to keep tempers down, I probably wouldn’t show up with my 400-pound friend and my blonde girlfriend.”

    LOL.

  67. What a breath of fresh air after listening to that sleaze-bag Matr O’Mara.

    • sorry, it’s Mark, not ‘Matr.”

      Anyway, new open thread coming, for comments about the conference.

    • bettykath says:

      I agree. Lawyer indicated that Shellie is not a convicted perjurer. I believe Shellie’s version. She’s married to a controlling sociopath and needs to get free of him. We know his record for truth telling and Shelly’s lies about the money were done at fogen’s direction. Yes, too bad she wasn’t thinking for herself then.

      • When I was in an abusive situation like that, the abuser kept 100 percent control of the money (he was a surgeon). If I wanted to purchase a newspaper, he gave me exact change and demanded a receipt. He unplugged the phones from the walls (in land line days) and put them in the trunk of his car when he went to work, so I was unable to call anyone.

        For these reasons, I do believe she was married to a controlling abuser. It was pretty clear from the jailhouse phone calls that she was truly clueless about those finances. That’s the way he wanted it.

        • Shari says:

          Unplugging the phone, cutting off the cable, removing the internet. All sounds familiar. :(

          • Familiar, and comfortable with it. So, I assume that includes turning off all those surveillance cameras at the murder scene as well.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            he had disabled the interior security cams in this home as well. just like at the murder scene — he knew where to start shit so his initial aggression would go unseen.

            sick bastard.

          • He is sick. And Shellie needs to have zero contact with him. I mean zip. Because he is apt to kill her next.

            And why not? He is, after all, invincible.

            He’d likely get away with killing her. I’m a bit surprised he didn’t claim some bullshit about her slamming his head ‘MMA style’ during this latest encounter, the big fat lying psycho that he is.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          crane says

          When I was in an abusive situation like that, the abuser kept 100 percent control of the money . . .

          reminds me of my first disaster of a marriage. i went from my parent’s nightmare and at age 19 found one of my own. dude was 14 years older, i truly didn’t know any better. i signed my paychecks over to him, just as i saw my mom do. i got 5 bucks a day ‘allowance’ for my lunches in downtown san francisco (note: even in the mid 80s, finding lunch for under 8 bucks was a challenge). god forbid my nylons snagged – i’d have to choose between that or food. i got 50 bucks a month for clothing and other personal expenses – although my earnings were decent and i was expected to dress.

          he went out of his way to make friends and family uncomfortable visiting, i lost what little social network i had in a new city. if for some reason, i was late getting home do to bus/BART problems (routine delays were regular) i could be assured that he would be busting something around the house that was important to me.

          of course he never *hit* me though … but we know that isn’t necessary, the threat is always there. i could go on, but those of us who’ve been there know the drill. it all felt just like ‘home’ that although i was miserable, i just figured it was ‘normal’

          i was fortunate to realize what total bullshit it all was 2 years into the deal. i left when he started dealing drugs, but worked night shifts and he expected me to keep the ‘shop’ open all night for whatever creeps needed to get their fix of pot or cocaine. the fear of getting busted for that was just too damn much and i realized i’d be better off without him.

          sorry to hear you went through it too.

          • He was an abuser. He would have hit you, in time, I believe. Good that you got out. There is a textbook description of the ‘arc’ of behavior, that eventually leads to violence and this guy was on the path. It starts with control. Control of money. Control of social contacts. Then, it gets crazy.

            Zimmerman? He fits the bill, IMO.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            could not agree more.

  68. Kate says:

    According to Dr. Bao telephone interview, he said he was prepared for his part; however, the state decided to do away with the ME lab assistants testimony at the last minute but then had him testify on what they had done, knowing he was not knowledgeable on the statements they had given or their exact procedures in the case. That is part of the reason he claims the state purposely tried to throw the case. He said he had done the deposition last year and had to beg them 4 days prior to him being on the stand for the information in discovery. They purposely did not prepare him and the state purposely did not prepare to win at all costs, and that included making the ME look like a fool.

    • I agree with him. I kept wondering the obvious: why aren’t they asking the people directly? Sometime shortly after watching his testimony, I quit watching the trial. I thought it was fake and being thrown, and I don’t appreciate being played.

      Now, after hearing of the most recent events, I think GZ is creepier than I originally thought. And that’s kinda hard to imagine.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @kate — do you have a link where you read this new material? i’ve read several, but had not seen this yet and i’m trying to keep track.

      thanks in advance.

  69. New post up:

    Shellie Zimmerman’s Press Conference

    Use this thread for comments about the press conference and matters covered by Kelly Sims.

  70. PYorck says:

    Here in Germany it is possible for victims of certain violent crimes or their families in case of homicides to play an active role in a trial as the ‘subsidiary prosecution’.

    If they want to be actively involved, they are represented by a lawyer. During the trial this ‘subsidiary prosecution’ has most of the rights of the regular prosecution. They can introduce evidence, provide witnesses including experts, question both of those, make statements… They also get full access to discovery and are allowed to be present throughout the trial even if they are witnesses. The major things they can’t do is charging anyone and appealing sentences.

    Obviously something like this could have made a huge difference in this case.

    I am curious what you think of this?

    • Shari says:

      WOW. That would have been awesome if Tracy and Sybrina had that right. Clearly the state of FL had NO desire to convict the murderer of Trayvon.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @PYorck — that sounds fascinating, actually. i had never heard of that, much less considered it. i can see how that might make a real difference. i wonder what, if any, down sides are — can you add any more info?

    • My knee-jerk reaction is negative because I’m thinking that too many cooks can spoil the stew. With two lawyers pushing the prosecution in different directions, the prosecution might appear to lose focus, which a clever defense lawyer might exploit as an example of reasonable doubt.

      On the other hand, the mere presence of the victim’s lawyer might function to keep the prosecution honest. I like that aspect.

      I’m going to make a new post out of the idea. Let’s see what others think.

      Good comment.

  71. Lonnie Starr says:

    Anyone who expected that a biased prosecution office would put that bias on display in the court room, is someone who expects criminals to advertise that they are criminals and take no evasive action at all. Of course we know that criminals do hide behind facades of innocence as much as they possibly can. People who commit crimes or who are bigoted and/or biased, try their level best to pretend that they are not.

    • C-S on Fred’s screen. This is a great comment, with an excellent point. What a bunch of psychos though. (the prosecution team) Boggles the mind to ponder how much work they put into being dirty while appearing, sort of, to try a case.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        It is precisely because, people who intend to do things they know they are not supposed to do, that advanced planning is necessary.

        In the prosecutions case, that means keeping off the record, things that have a very good chance of making the defense case impossible to win. So while we were thinking that the prosecution’s starting the case without a grand jury, the real thinking was that, it was likely that too much evidence would have to be displayed, to obtain an indictment. Most especially from a GJ that would be potentially biased in favor of the defense.

        Not having to go on the record with the most incriminating evidence, left the prosecution free to avoid it during the trial.

        That way they could pretend at trial that there was no assault and that, therefore, gz had an actual self defense claim that they would fail to overcome, because of a biased jury.

        The presentation we heard was different from what the jurors heard. When we heard various things, we immediately associated it with the various evidence and testimony we were aware of. The jurors, on the other hand, were unaware of these things, and heard only what was being put in front of them during the trial. Much of that being offered by the prosecution, was being made controversial, by what the defense was claiming. The prosecution simply moved on and did not clarify their evidence or challenge the spurious counter claims.

        Where was the dramatic rebuttal to Trayvon being “armed with a sidewalk”? That should have been a hilarious high point of the prosecutions case. Yet… there we stood peering into the darkness… silence there and nothing more!

        • jm says:

          Lonnie says: “The jurors, on the other hand, were unaware of these things, and heard only what was being put in front of them during the trial.”

          Lonnie are you fairly sure there was no “stealth” juror who knew the case very well but was determined to see to it that GZ was not found guilty? I am thinking specifically of the juror who gave the first interview and was married to a lawyer. Hard to imagine she did not know anything about the case other than what was presented in court and her husband had no input.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            One does not exclude the other, they could have had both a bad presentation and a stealth juror.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The jurors may have had some superficial knowledge of the case, but I doubt that any one of them were online digging in to the case.

            But my hypothetical does not exclude that any particular juror may have been a stealth juror. I’m speaking about the general presentation of the case, as viewed by two very different parties with vastly different levels of knowledge.

            First there are those of us who, online have dug deeply into the minutia of the case, have watched the video and have seen the evidence that rebuts the claims gz made, as well has him contradicting himself and changing his story to fit each new revelation or discovery.

            Then there are the jurors who, while they may be aware of some things about the case, they have largely not heard of or dug into the minutia and so they wouldn’t be able to identify a gz lie, no matter how it conflicted with the evidence, without the prosecution laying it out for them with clarity.

            When Guy said “you’ve got to start at the beginning”, there were oooh’s and aah’s on the net. We understood that at the beginning is where gz began his illegal stalking/assault. But the jurors, on the other hand, had not been told that anything gz was doing might be illegal. They were never told that gz was committing assault, nor that as NW he should not have been following or carrying a gun.

            The jury was allowed to think that gz had a duty as NW to follow suspicious characters anywhere he chose. Thus there was no reason for them to believe that in the beginning there was anything useful there. That statement made was not being made for the jury, but it was being made to those watching the trial on line. Because the trial should not be seen as too big a sham.

  72. SoulSistaWoo says:

    SOMEONE PLEASE RESPOND… Did Dr. Bao’s autopsy say Trayvon was shot in the BACK?

    It seems like this is what I read here:

    http://newsone.com/2718172/report-medical-examiner-shiping-bao-claims-george-zimmerman-shot-trayvon-martin-in-the-back/

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 1,017 other followers

%d bloggers like this: