CNN article promotes racist description of Trayvon Martin case

Wednesday, February 27, 2013

Thanks to all who participated in yesterday’s memorial to Trayvon Martin.

I write today to express disgust and dismay regarding this excuse for journalism by Steve Almasy of CNN, Zimmerman’s lawyer works to dispel racial overtones in Trayvon Martin case.

The focus of the piece is Mark O’Mara’s “struggle” to get people to pay attention to the evidence instead of racism.

Whatever the outcome of the Trayvon Martin case, it will be viewed less as a determination of the shooter’s guilt or innocence and more as a victory or loss for civil rights, George Zimmerman’s lawyer fears.

Mark O’Mara said he has been busy trying to dispel the racial overtones in the case by getting out more evidence about his client.

Thereafter, we get the usual he-said-she-said description of the case interspersed with O’Mara’s unchallenged mischaracterizations of the evidence followed up with this description of Benjamin Crump as a rabble rousing troublemaker pushing the race card.

O’Mara indicated at trial he will dissect the recording of Zimmerman’s 911 call and point to evidence of the wounds Zimmerman said he suffered that night.

“I believe, you know, again, the evidence is what it is and that’s for a jury to determine,” O’Mara said. “But a close reading or looking at that tape and all the evidence that followed, particularly George’s injuries and Trayvon’s lack of injuries but for the fatal gunshot, suggest that George did not begin the fight, did not continue the fight and actually was the victim of the attack rather than the other way around.”

But a lawyer for the Martins said the fight against “senseless gun violence” will continue.

“He went home and slept in his bed the night he killed Trayvon,” attorney Benjamin Crump said. “And that wasn’t equal justice.”

Crump then led a chant of “Hoodies up! Hoodies up!” at the vigil.

This false concoction is presented with a cherry on top in the form of the optically distorted and likely photoshopped digital photo of the defendant seated in the back seat of a patrol vehicle with a bump on his nose and blood on his mustache. CNN has no excuse for not knowing that the photo presents a false picture because the police photos taken at the station house a few hours later with a much better camera under good lighting show a barely visible injury with little or no swelling or distortion to the shape of the nose.

As all of us know, despite conceding that his client was the aggressor, O’Mara has been shoving his demonstrably false “bloody” photograph in front of every camera he can find in pursuit of his easy-to-disprove false narrative that the peaceful and nonviolent Trayvon for no apparent reason attacked and attempted to kill the defendant with his bare hands in the middle of his phone conversation with his girlfriend after successfully running away from the defendant who had been stalking him in a vehicle and then on foot contrary to a police dispatcher’s warning.

The simple truth is this defendant has no defense and the only mystery in this case is why anyone believes that the he did not hunt, confront, and murder Trayvon Martin for the heinous crime of walking while Black in the rain with his hoodie up.

I said long ago and I will repeat it today:

Anyone who believes the defendant is innocent is a racist and anyone who contributes money to his defense is a stupid racist.

Let there be no mistake: Although he claims otherwise, Mark O’Mara and his client are deliberately appealing to racial hatred and fear of young Black males to literally get away with murder.

That is what this case is all about and shame on CNN for not reporting the truth.

419 Responses to CNN article promotes racist description of Trayvon Martin case

    • fauxmccoy says:

      would follow you anywhere, mmp and leatherman too, of course :)

      • thejbmission says:

        BAM !!
        Great article Professor! For those who think Fogen isn’t a danger to society, not only to the black community but to ANYONE who ticks him off whether it be cutting him off in traffic or getting in front of him in line at the grocery store are fools. A quick look of his past 911 calls and actions taken to hurt his perceived enemies tells me what he’s about.
        There’s no doubt in my mind that on February 26,2012 that he profiled and then stalked Trayvon Martin for walking Black on “his turf”. The sound of his voice, the way he was panting, his demeanor with the NEN operator, not telling him his exact location lets me know his intentions. This was going to be his night that an a-hole wasn’t going to get away. (his words)
        It’s funny that O’Mara doesn’t explain that to CNN. No, he wants us all to play stupid and act like none of this happened. Ugh!

  1. blushedbrown says:

    @Prof

    Excellent post.
    BBL to comment.

  2. racerrodig says:

    Well done as always Professor. He has no chance to speak of and I think no matter what he says most of the listening public is in “Ignore Mode” with them. The ones who listen other then the handful of die hard’s are looking at it as “…now what..” and no….no more money,,,ya had yer chance. I need 2 new tires for the house.

    • jm says:

      I think MOM is preaching to his choir of racists also. I also think MOM is a sleaze like RZJ hoping to become rich and famous utilizing the death of Trayvon Martin to get their names in print and their faces on TV.

      • pat deadder says:

        jm But I’m not understanding why these TV stations give them air time. I just switch the channel Just can’t stand the BS.

    • Jun says:

      LOL

      It’s funny how he says he is struggling to get people to pay attention to the evidence, and then he completely ignores 99% of the evidence and focuses on unauthenticated pictures and claims LOL

      It is as silly as their claim that NBC made it look like Fogenhats offered the race of the victim, when in the phone call he says “He has his hands in his waistband, and he’s a black male” without being asked regarding those issues. He also calls him suspicious for walking, and then uses the various other descriptions together.

      There is a racial factor and a age factor because I think Fogenhats was looking for a victim that night, so a black kid fit his eyes and weird desires

      • leander22 says:

        “He has his hands in his waistband, and he’s a black male” without being asked regarding those issues.

        but it feels you are correct. When asked for it he answers: He looks black. In this combination he triggers the image of a threating black male. So it’s really no accident that the dispatcher immediately asks him after that line: How old would you say he is?

        I may be wrong of course, this is from memory. I was following a commenter on Jonathan Thurley’s blog or more precisely his impression that he deliberately creates the image of a threatening black male for the dispatcher or Sean. Later I found it interesting that he remembers “the hand in the waistband” really well, compared to everything else. He even suggests he offered his own address.

      • leander22 says:

        but initially was meant to be prefaced, I may be wrong, but. Now it somehow in a limbo, leaving a void. ;)

      • Trained Observer says:

        For Fogen it would have been so very helpful if only his quarry of choice had turned out to be a throwaway counterpart — some guy his own age, armed, and packaged with a cache of drugs and an adult rap sheet to match his own.

        In his re-do gimme a second-chance dreams …

  3. is there anyone here that has the know how of putting zimmerman’s pictures together in a time line? or of knowledge of where they could be found? thank you

    • yes, I noticed a very good collection of pics in time sequence on a post from yesterday.. i’ll try to find it because I think you’d like them from a chronological perspective, but not just his appearance but also his demeanor… some still shots in his court hearings really show his attitude.

      • Hey kid!

        You mentioned in your post last night about a speaker at the Trayvon Martin Vigil stating Trayvon was a victim of a hate crime. The DOJ has been very quiet up until now. Could it be hate crime charges are coming down the pipe? Your thoughts?

        • I don’t know. but it was a political guy and not a preacher or celebrity. I don’t know politics like you my political chick.

          there has to be a video recording of it because so many people spoke about some major accusations. it was real, no fluffy soft speak you usually hear at like pressers or whatever.
          i’d like to know who they were too.

      • I wish I could find the video.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @shannoninmiami, LOL the one that stands out the most to me, is the one of him in court on Trayvon’s B’day. Trent made it even better with his commentary. the joker had the nerve to be crying in court and, the tears he shed were for *SELF* because, he is not one bit sorry for what he did. if he was, he wouldn’t be on these blog sites spewing hatred towards his victim and his family. not only is he doing this, his father aka LetJusticePrevail and, JoonYah are both taking part in the smear Trayvon and family campaign. just name another family of a murderer who has taken to the blog sites to smear the murder victim of their murdering family member. I myself can’t think of ANY!

        • @ Ladystclaire, there is no such site!! there’s no murderer’s family in the history of the world quite like this one! they are clearly very very special!!

          they need to be treated special too, that’s why they will regret what they did once gz is locked up forever, and they will become even more of pariahs and outcasts.
          But, we know they will only blame everyone else tho for their misery! lololo

      • leander22 says:

        Shannon, I would be interested in a link or more details.

        I would appreciate a link to a recording of the NYC event too. If anybody else can help, I’d appreciate it. There has to be a video somewhere.

        • @ leander,
          I know i’m so pissed b/c I was half passed out last night and was actually trying to figure out a way to copy the whole photo slide show!!!

          but I haven’t given up. still looking for it!!!

      • leander22 says:

        shannon, you should not be as pissed as I was, when I realized that in spite of the fact I had set my laptop time for two different US times additionally that I missed the event, when I finally surfaced from a deep dive into O’Mara’s, or basically the conservative ” evil media” argument, webwise.

        On another note, maybe I should move it to the appropriate sections, on the other hand it feels that you may well have alerted to the recent case document concerning the subpoena for all FBI documents related to Zimmerman.

        Benjamin Crump has an interesting link: Discovery Issues in Federal Criminal Court
        By: Bill E. Branscum, © Copyright 1999

  4. jm says:

    Professor with all these protests from MOM, RZJ, etc, that this is not a racist crime and GZ is not a racist and has never been white, but rather Afro-Peruvian, do you think their PR campaign is motivated by something coming down the road in the way of hate crime charges for GZ?

    As far as the evidence MOM wants the public to focus on it is clear that GZ profiled a black male calling him names like azzhole and effing punk/coon during NEN call.

    MOM is despicable. I only hope Judge Nelson is aware of his underhanded lies and tactics and continues to put him in his place during trial.

    • Jun says:

      It is obvious Fogenhats and his gang are full of crap

      a) On all of his identification and his statements to police, he claimed to be a white person, yet he suddenly recently wants to claim to be “AFRO PERUVIAN”

      We will never know until the FBI charges Fogenhats and potentially Junior

      I am not the judge, but Nelson looks and seems more intelligent than Omara and can see through all his crap

      and besides, all of Omara’s media appearances will be brought up at hearings LMAO

      • blushedbrown says:

        @Jun

        This is the bullshit they are trying to feed us.

        First he was white.

        Then he was white-hispanic

        Then it morphed into white with afro peruvian heritage.

        Now if you read the news coverage he is just plain Hispanic.

        Before it is all said and done, XXXXX will be black.

        As much as they want to portray him of all of things above, the simple fact of the matter is we don’t care what he is or what he claims to be.

        He killed Trayvon for no reason other then his depraved mind. XXXXX race has nothing to do with it. Racial issues are a componet of this case, but not the sole reason. The reason why he is on trial is for Murder. Because of a killing we feel, and the State of Florida feels was unjustified.

        O’mara needs to get that through his thick head. He doesn’t need to elimate racial issues in this case. The issue at hand is Murder. The racial implications are being handled by the FBI. These are two separate issues that O”mara has to fight, and he will lose.

      • Jun says:

        He’s scared of something the FBI has LMAO

      • @Blushedbrown

        Before it is all said and done, XXXXX will be black.

        THIS!

      • Trained Observer says:

        Oh, definitely, pert near balack by trial time.

        Mommy’s working on her tan now, and Fogen’s sent out his cosmotologist wifey to pick up a cartload of bronzer.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @jun, Junior? might be charged with a hate crime. how so but anyways, HALLELUJAH!

      • Xena says:

        @Blushedbrown. BINGO!

        • blushedbrown says:

          @Xena

          and his great great great great grandfather was a Black King from Africa. Just wait Rene Stutzman is doing the ancestral tree right now.

      • heartofhearts says:

        I’ll bet that on every application he has filled out for college and work that he marked Caucasian.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @jm. it was effing *COONS* 100% all the way. I don’t know why the state wanted to go with the effing punks, when that is not what he said. you don’t need any special sound equipment to hear exactly what he said. as for him being charged with a hate crime, he should be because, that is what he committed and, I believe he did it to impress his two racist cohorts.

      He wanted to prove to them that, he could kill a effing *COON* and get away with doing it. as for the Afro part of him, I don’t believe it for one moment that he has any African blood coursing through his veins. this is being said only to try to keep him from facing hate crime charges.he is White, Hispanic and Black, whenever he needs anyone of the three to suit his purpose at certain times.

      • Malisha says:

        I think the State went with “punks” because:
        1 – Fogen ADMITTED to “punks” so there is no issue proving it; and
        2 – If there was the slightest doubt involved in whether the word was “punks” or “coons” and it came out that the jury believed it was “punks,” that would damage the State’s credibility on a non-issue in the case. So why risk it?

        The State makes a perfect case for a depraved mind with the words being “fucking punks” and why go up a mountain that isn’t there?

        • xy11xy says:

          @Malisha

          Why don’t we all have a debate about “fucking”…I mean, I’m really not clear about that word. It comes directly before the other word and is similarly distorted.

          Gee, maybe George said “lucking”…maybe “clucking”…. Maybe he said that “trucking” something…

          I’m so confused.

      • DruDo says:

        lady, I agree with you. He said “coons” and not “punks”. Moon and bunk sound nothing alike, do they? It’s not hard to differentiate between the two sounds at all.

      • Dan Q. Smith says:

        Hear, hear!

        • jm says:

          I couldn’t make it out, if it was coons or punks, but whichever GZ said was derogatory and he profiled a black male as a coon or punk and an azzhole.

          I think that is why there is so much PR going on from Zimmerman’s family and defense team. They know he profiled Trayvon and are protesting way too much he isn’t a racist and to prove that point, GZ has never been white but Afro-Peruvian and everybody knows Afro-Peruvians are not racists, right?

          • blushedbrown says:

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            While the defense is focused on proving that GZ is not racist, the SP is focused on proving him to be a killer. In front of a jury, disproving himself as a racist is going to do nothing to help his case at all.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            While the defense is focused on proving that GZ is not racist, the SP is focused on proving him to be a killer.

            (((((APPLAUSE))))) Exactly. None of O’Mara’s and Junior’s diatribes, and none of the Zidiots’ theories prove that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense.

  5. cielo62 says:

    If there’s a hell , these guys belong there. And if there isn’t, it should be created for them.

    • racerrodig says:

      Did you say “Hell’ Maybe a reference to the Devil himself.

      I went down to Sanford baby, gained ’bout twenty pounds
      Didn’t get to sleep last night ’till the morning came around.

      Set out runnin’ but I take my time
      A friend of the devil is a friend of mine
      If I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight.

      Ran into the devil, babe, he loaned me twenty bills
      I spent the night with Markie in a cave up in the hills.

      Set out runnin’ but I take my time, a friend of the devil is a friend of mine,
      If I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight.

      I ran down to the levee but the devil caught me there
      He took my twenty dollar bill and vanished in the air.

      Set out runnin’ but I take my time
      A friend of the devil is a friend of mine
      If I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight.

      Got two reasons why I cry away each lonely night,
      The first one’s named Sweet Bubba Man , and he’s my hearts delight.
      The second one is prison, babe, the sheriff’s on my trail,
      And if he catches up with me, I’ll spend my life in jail.

      Got a wife in Sanford , babe, one called big Shellie
      And when she says she’s with a child, it won’t look like me.

      Set out runnin’ but I take my time,
      A friend of the devil is a friend of mine,
      If I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight.

  6. Jun says:

    What else is new?

    Their pleas in the media must not be helping since he feels the need to repeatedly push lies in front of everyone’s faces

    All those pictures and claims will end up having anyone looking at the whole picture, how exactly he acquired those minimal injuries, considering, there is no forensic evidence that the victim did anything at all to the defendant

    My main guess is Omara is obviously failing and all he has is the media who will do anything for ratings and Omara goes unchallenged for everything he claims, no matter how large of lies

  7. blushedbrown says:

    And the hits keep on coming. hahahahahahahah

    The FBI said, “We don’t have to turn over anything to you”

    Federal trumps State!!!

    Excerpt from article:

    Flynn hinted that if Nelson does not vacate the order, the department may go over her head and ask a federal judge to do it.

    • Tzar says:

      bwah ha ha ha ha

    • aussie says:

      This is the stuff she told him once before to go ask for, for himself. And then apparently he didn’t ask in the correct manner so they told him where to get off.

      And Judge Nelson most likely went and gave this order knowing full well they’d refuse or insist she change it. So it doesn’t happen but it’s not her fault. Neat.

      • blushedbrown says:

        @Aussie

        Very shrewd lady. I had thought of that as well. I think she is a very smart, well versed in the law, and two steps ahead of everybody in the court room. Hmmm I guess that’s why she wears the black robe.

    • leander22 says:

      Good news, blushed, especially the investigations are ongoing.

    • http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/USA's%20Objection%20to%20Order%20on%20Amended%20Demand%20for%20Specific%20Discovery.pdf

      Not sure if you have this already, i’m two days behind!!
      Here’s the fbi’s answer to Dufense demands!! lolo

      this kills me, i haven’t finished reading cas there’s just so much going on!!

    • rayvenwolf says:

      Love how the Z nation is completely ignoring the fact O’money failed to follow procedure when it came to requesting the information down in the comment sections. Apparently the gov’t is out to get poor widdle Georgie too. *dramatic sob*

      • Xena says:

        My guess is that O’Mara will need to submit and comply with the rules for FOIA. Even obtaining records about his client fall under the privacy act provision of DOJ’s FOIA rules.

        There’s no short-cuts with the feds. O’Mara cannot circumvent their rules with an order from a State court.

      • groans says:

        Oh, my. The feds require WORK from MOM before they’ll turn over THEIR WORK to him???!!!

        No, no, no, no! MOM’s whole strategy is to be Mr. Yakker, not Mr. Lawyer!

        See, all he should have to do is grant TV interviews and sometimes wave his hands in the air in front of a judge. Then, you see, he becomes ENTITLED to get all the work and analysis that the State, Benjamin Crump, and the FBI have done. That’s a defendant’s SIXTH AMENDMENT RIGHT, by golly … I think I heard MOM say so on TV!

        :roll:

        • rayvenwolf says:

          *wipes coffee off laptop* Just so you know that small spit take sent my roommate’s cat running for cover.

          But yes how dare anyone expect MOM to follow basic rules and regs. After all his client is obviously innocent and should not be treated like some common dreg of society(even if he is one and is about as useful as a teat on a boar)

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, this is a very good argument, why from an attorney’s side the subpoena may be preferential to a FOIA request.

        You only need to peruse the first three pages.

        • Xena says:

          @leander22

          Xena, this is a very good argument, why from an attorney’s side the subpoena may be preferential to a FOIA request.

          Thanks for the reference. IMO, the person is missing the chain of command in addition to approaching when documents are required by a defendant in a criminal State action. State courts have no jurisdiction to order the federal government to do anything. The question is, is O’Mara ignorant and unable to learn and follow proper procedures, or is he simply playing for the side-show?

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, if you look especially into the Touhy and Bizzard cases, the document bases his decision on, I am sure that our “special-expert-at-Associate-Criminal-Law’s” brain was friend when he looked closer into the argument. … ;)

        Petitioner, Roger Touhy, an inmate of the Illinois State penitentiary, instituted a habeas corpus proceeding in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois against the warden, alleging he was restrained in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Federal [340 U.S. 462, 464] Constitution. In the course of that proceeding a subpoena duces tecum was issued and served upon George R. McSwain, the agent in charge of the Federal Bureau of Investigation at Chicago, requiring the production of certain [340 U.S. 462, 465] records which, petitioner Touhy claims, contained evidence establishing that his conviction was brought about by fraud.

        and a short allusion to Bizzard somewhere else.

        For example, in United States v. Bizzard, … the Eleventh Circuit held that the trial court had properly found that a witness was “unavailable” under Federal Rule of Evidence 804(a)(2). The witness testified at Bizzard’s first trial but refused to testify on retrial. The court explained:

        Although the [trial] court could have more clearly ordered the witness to testify, the record shows that the court’s conversation with the witness in an out of jury hearing at the second trial was sufficient to meet the order requirement of Fed.R.Evid. 804(a)(2).   Thus the court was correct in deciding that the witness was “unavailable” because of his persistent refusal to testify after an “order” of the court to do so.   No written order is necessary.   Cf. United States v. Zappola, 646 F.2d 48 (2d Cir.1981);  United States v. Oliver, 626 F.2d 254 (2d Cir.1980) (order from court essential requisite to invocation of Rule 804(a)(2)).[7 ]

        This case makes me very aware that I would usually be on the side of the defendant against state powers. From the article Benjamin Crump links to, here is why:

        In other words, the Office of the United States Attorney has an affirmative responsibility to ferret out exculpatory evidence, impeachment material and derogatory information that may exist in the personnel files of the government agents involved.

        Problem is the FBI did not indict him. Or at least if I recognize the hope out there they found something. Not yet. …

        • Xena says:

          @leander22. The difference is that those cases involve the U.S. prosecuting a defendant — not a State prosecution. The federal government handles subpoenas for info in a case where the U.S. is plaintiff differently than how they handle subpoenas for production when the U.S. is not a party to the proceedings, as in GZ’s case.

          Here, GZ is charged by the State of Florida for murder in the 2nd degree. Any info that the feds have regarding their investigation has already been turned over to the State and the State has turned it over to the defense. Any info that the FBI has as part of their ongoing investigation is not going to be turned over to anyone and the states lack jurisdiction to order it to do so and cannot compel compliance with a void order.

      • leander22 says:

        The difference is that those cases involve the U.S.

        I understood that from the file. I simply hope that Fogen is still a bit paranoid and studies the case closely. ;)

        Although he may be busy looking for sandwiches all day long. ;)

        I’ll shut up for a while.

  8. onlyiamunitron says:

    Do you really believe that the photo got deliberately photoshopped while in the custody of the Sanford PD?

    Zimmerman’s brought that department nothing but aggravation, they can’t love him that much.

    unitron

    • Jun says:

      The photograph showed up 3 weeks after the incident and the officer does not have the original file from the phone

      The photo looks altered because the dimensions of his head and nose look strange and I do not understand how blood dried and hung off the tip of his nose

      Anyways, it do not mean much because there is no forensic evidence the kid caused it and the defendant is the aggressor anyways as his claim of self defense is false

      • pat deadder says:

        Is it possible when the boy with the dog saw a man on the ground alone that is when forgen slipped in the wet grass and hit one of the spinkler things.I see the defence is downplaying his head injuries,I just don’t know the time frame of when the boy saw this.Also the nose injuries are kickback from the gun.Please June hurry up and come.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @pat, hurry up June is exactly what I’m saying also. then we will have his trial underway and, the things which we are not privy to right now, will come to light and we will really see the real Fogen Z. his text messages as well as his emails are only two of the nails in his coffin and, I can’t wait for the rest of the nails. after tomorrow, we’ll have only *THREE* months to go, before the month of June will be upon us. I hope they are not trying to know use his tremendous weight gain of 105 lbs. as a reason to delay the start of his trial. you would think that his defense team would have common sense to know that, no matter how long they try to postpone this trial, this second degree murder case against Fogen is not going to go away! TICK TOCK TICK TOCK the clock is counting down as well as the calender.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        @pat deadder

        I think the 2nd person was blocked from Austin’s view, by the man he did see. Austin said all he could see was the back of a man.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      unitron – the fact that the photos were not brought forward until long after they were taken does raise some doubt. i have maintained from the beginning that i cannot say definitively that racism played any part in zimmerman’s motivation, but i can say without doubt the institutional racism as evidenced by the SPD has it’s ugly fingerprints all over the place. personally, i put nothing past them and try to keep my mind open to possibilities.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think the racism at play in SPD is far more striking than anything Fogen said.

      • towerflower says:

        Two of the officers on the scene that night, Officer Smith and Sgt. Raimondo, were also involved in the Sherman Ware case.

      • @Fauxccoy, I think that too. i think it’s complicated in that gz has always had his own racial issues. i think he has prejudices based on his own insecurities ( likely based on his father and *mother* and their issues). and then he has found in his mind the target of his own internal frustrations which are young black males, and anyone else he thinks he can dominate to make himself feel *big*, including women and girls, but i’m sure he’d feel free to harass a white guy if he perceived that man to be inferior to him too.
        But, he did it because he thought he could get away with it because of the institutional racism.

      • I wish I could do the grey block. Faux, you have said exactly what I have been thinking. Institutional racism at its finest. Been happening for centuries!

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        I know that we in the public for the longest time only got to see the scan of the fax of the Xerox of the B/W print of the screenshot that made him look like Adolphe Menjou, but by the time Officer whatsisname remembered he’d copied it to his laptop and turned it over, the shots from later that night were already in existence and it wouldn’t be long before the state came in and seized everything, so the idea that someone would run the risk of being caught just to doctor just that one photo comes in a logical poor second to “there was some temporary swelling that was exaggerated by the cellphone camera’s fish-eye lens and the lighting”.

        unitron

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @unitron

          but by the time Officer whatsisname remembered he’d copied it to his laptop and turned it over

          this is exactly the problem i was getting at – institutionalized racism within the SPD.

          yes, the b/w photo we all saw was crummy, yes the camera was crummy, the lens was crummy, the lighting was crummy, the photographer was crummy, the angle of the shot was crummy — but the crummiest thing of all is that it took this officer close to one month to submit a crucial piece of evidence to a murder investigation along with his report.

          i am not prone to speculation, i will not say that the shot was photoshopped although i have fairly extensive experience with that program. what i will say is that this officer clearly did not feel any sense of urgency to play an active role in an ongoing murder investigation to which he was privy; his approach was at the very least lackadaisical and thus the chain of custody for this piece of evidence is doubt worthy.

          i must question the motives of the department where such slovenly reporting is condoned. having made myself very aware of past cases and other shoddy investigations involving the black community the department serves, i can only conclude that racism is an institution within this particular police department.

    • Whether the photo was altered or merely the product of distortion from a cheap lens, the subsequent photos taken at the station house establish that the defendant did not sustain a significant injury, or perhaps any injury to his nose.

      • xy11xy says:

        I think he got a knot on his nose, but no break. I think he got it by being on Trayvon’s back, pinning him to the ground.

        If Trayvon flung his own head back, desperate to get from under George, it might cause a knot…or swelling.

        If George was on Tray’s back, it would implicate him terribly.

        It could be said that the injuries to George’s face are defensive wounds. But defensive wounds are usually on the arms/hands, right? Why would George be blocking blows with his face and head?

        Well, if he couldn’t use his hands or arms for some reason. Like if he had a gun in one hand, and the other hands was pinning Trayvon.

        And why wouldn’t Trayvon fight back? We certainly expected him to! If he was pinned on his belly with George on nis back, then he couldn’t use his hands. His only way to fight back would be to buck his body upward to try to get onto his knees, and toss his head around to try to escape.

        As for the abrasions….there’s something many people don’t understand about black hair. Black hair in it’s natural state that’s been cut with an electric razor – or in the case of facial hair, with a manual razor – is coarse. The shorn-off ends are like little spikes.

      • Xy, and how does this man’s flashlight end up near the body? I guess that’s what he was doing with his hands.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        xy11xy:
        That’s a scenario no one here has considered. But it fits: GZ would have turned his victim over by grabbing the front of the hoodie from behind, after dropping his flashlight.

        • xy11xy says:

          @Cercando Luce

          Yeah…he could have dropped the flashlight to go for the gun.

          The gun had hollow points which someone tells me are designed to stay inside the body. So, It is possible George wasn’t afraid of a bullet exiting and entering his body….say if he curled his arm around to Trayvon’s chest and fired. I wondered how there was so little GS residue on George’s jacket…either he wasn’t wearing the jacket when he fired, or his arm was shielded partially? Just brainstorming.

          Anyway, It’s also possible he fired into Tray’s chest while Trayvon was on his side with George laying on him…?

    • Malisha says:

      I think SPD does still love Fogen; they believe that the big bad Blacks made this problem and poor Fogen and poor them were all victimized boo hoo hoo. I think they’re still in bed together. They don’t think Fogen brought them trouble; they think the big bad Blacks and Sharpton and Crump brought them trouble and they’re circling the wagons.

      • Malisha

        Your statement reminds me of Governor John Patterson calling the freedom riders trouble makers and agitators. You know, like we were peaceful loving folks until those freedom riding trouble makers rode into town inciting our good citizens.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes. That’s the party line for the racists who call everyone else racists.

        I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think everyone who supports Fogen is a racist (but those who support him while vehemently calling Trayvon a thug, cherrypicking from all the evidence, certainly are.)

        There truly are some pro-gun, pro-hardline self-defense folks who have not kept up on all the evidence who see the Fogen case as a self-defense case. These folks have not looked beyond the early evidence of Fogen with his minor injuries and a juicy ever-changing story. These supporters have run with that from the beginning without investigating the rest of the case. I think many of these people would feel the same way if Trayvon were white and they have no real investment in the racial aspect of the case.

        Not that I’m supporting these folks either. Just sayin’ that it’s dicey to paint the picture of supporters as or all or nothing racists.

        Great article though. I suppose the mass media may be trying to be balanced and fair after all the brouhaha at the beginning of the case. Unfortunately, there are still racial issues to be solved in the US and this certainly brings the racists out of the woodwork.

        MOM & West have been trying to play both sides of the equation, which in my opinion may be even worse than being out and out racists. Playing to the racist supporters while denying any racism in the case makes both men totally unreliable as attorneys and as human beings. Whatever happened to integrity? If I were them, I’d shut down the donation site, have Fogen declare indigence, stop trying the case in the media, and get on with doing the defense lawyering they can do in a dignified manner.

      • leander22 says:

        I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think everyone who supports Fogen is a racist

        No you aren’t. I am not intending to disappoint you or be condescending, I am still puzzled at what point I may well cross the line. But here it goes:

        I doubt many have the time or the interest to look closely into the story. Some may even feel, they may not understand these matters at all. And that is were Team Fogen starts, like Mr. O’Mara carefully hiding his “colors”, or protecting the “civil rights” of people with weapons and concealed guns.

        Wikipedia tells me that 100 million US citizen receive CNN, and CNN has been slightly bending over beyond balanced news in defense of Zimmerman and with questions about Trayvon Martin, this tendency in reporting may leave quite a few people with the impression that Zimmerman should be supported:

        The leading theme of CNN’s coverage of the case involved questions about Trayvon Martin and the defense of Zimmerman followed closely by straight news accounts.

        see: How Blogs, Twitter and Mainstream Media Have Handled the Trayvon Martin Case, Special Report, March 30. I would like to take a much closer look at this report and the material on which it is built than I actually can.

      • I think SPD was following orders. Something more sinister is afoot. Watch, someone is going to spill the beans. GZ’s butt was covered, and he thought he had gotten away with murder. No one expected the public outcry.

      • Malisha says:

        SouthernGirl, not only that, but Patty Mahaney (the city councilwoman who was Billy Lee’s chief supporter and the angriest about the charges drawn) said the old “We in the South have our own law and we’re gonna use it” stuff in a council meeting shortly after the murder: She said she felt like her town had been invaded by OUTSIDERS!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @diaryofasuccessfullooser, if indeed SPD was following orders is it possible, that either ALEC or the NRA was involved in this as well? I find it awful strange that, the NRA is now wanting to distance themselves from Fogen in it’s support of him.

        In the very beginning of this case, there were nothing but comments on these blog sites against Fogen and his actions on that night. then, there was some racist pastor who spoke out in Fogen’s favor and after that happened, the racist had awakened and that is when all of the hatred towards an innocent deceased child and his family began. on video #5 at the hearing for delay of the trial, Trent commented on someone saying they were going to drive down to Florida and rape Sybrina and then kill her. I myself read a comment on YouTube where someone said they wished they lived in the state of Florida, so they could go and take a leisurely $hit on Trayvon’s grave.

        This case has brought out the worst of some people in the greatest country in the world. had Fogen allowed Trayvon continue on his way home, while minding his own business as he talked on his phone with his girlfriend, he wouldn’t find himself sitting in court crying and facing 35 to life for a charge of murder 2.

        BTW, there was also someone who said that, if Fogen is convicted he was going to start a race war. so much for the greatest country in the world, with people such as this in it.

      • pat deadder says:

        I listened to the reenactment again where Serino was driving and fogen was explaining his bullshit and I can hear in Serino’s voice he doesn’t believe one word the idiot is saying’I’d love to hear what Serino and Singleton said to each other privately.All along I’ve been giving fogen too much credit I’ve now decided because of all of you most of what he said on the nen was BS nothiing he said after he hung up from the nen call is true except I shot him.I can just imagine fogen senior saying to his spawn don’t worry I’ll talk to my friend Wolfinger and all will be all right.There is no other way fogen could have had the guts to tell such a ludicrous story.Malisha you should be a writer by the way..Eye witnesses are very unreliable.Because of where I work police officers did simulated robberies for training purposes and one person out of 80 got anywhere the actual discriptions of people or the events.So i’m pinning all my hopes on BDLR that he can articulate the evidence.

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        The chief got canned and Serino’s pulling graveyard shift squad car duty, and they ain’t wishing they’d never even heard Zimmerman’s name?

        unitron

      • groans says:

        @ leander:

        Very interesting article you linked. Thank you!

        The line graph showing “social media” interest is so illustrative. For three weeks, the killer must have felt increasingly confident that his actions would be swept under the rug and, thus, escape “radar detection.” But then … BOOM!!!

        That graph makes it very easy to see why the defense exhibits such visceral hatred towards Trayvon’s parents, Benjamin Crump, and many others who doggedly worked to register this atrocity on the public radar. The killer was SO CLOSE to walking away from it without any scrutiny.

        So how do the killer’s supporters respond to public awareness of the incident? They instinctively try to KILL THE MESSENGERS! Because the message, itself, is fatal to THEM.

      • leander22 says:

        Patty Mahaney about one of the “finest” police officers in the state of Florida.

        I hadn’t paid attention to “the invasion of outsiders” initially, but then I saw the video above. She gets quite a bit of applause. She was elected in the district were the crime occurred, how many represent her mindset? Will some of the future jurors feel similarly?

        That said, basically I agree there are sometimes scapegoats for something more systemic, so I gave her the benefit of doubt till I saw this video. It has a vaguely demagogic quality, she could express herself more nuanced. Besides: To what extend did Fogen’s flattery of Lee and his department work to make him support Fogen’s role as NW captain? Quite a few officers on the scene that night were aware of his function. (One of us, or helping us?) And yes, ultimately the chief is responsible for the more systemic problems too.

      • leander22 says:

        thanks, groan, I agree, “evil media” stands for what you write, I find a closer look at media/journalism in the context of the dominant theme of “all the fault of evil media” quite interesting too. They have more on the case, if you are interested.

        Although to get all aspects that would be interesting in the Trayvon Martin case occasionally feels like a Sisyphus labor, one topic leads to another. But that may just be me. It feels I should concentrate on one aspect. ;)

    • truthseeker66 says:

      @Unitron. But they do luv him @SPD. Billy Bob lost his job covering up for him. If you remember Billy was slandering TM with the rest of Kkklan.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Might not be a personal love but a love for the right to bear arms and for self-defense gone amok.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      But the photo wasn’t in the custody of the SPD; it was on the personal phone of Officer Wagner, who downloaded it to his own computer and deleted the original photo file off his phone. IIRC, he later emailed the picture to the department.

      • Dave says:

        Exactly! And we only have Officer Wagner’s word that the photo was taken in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. It could be an old photo or it could have been staged weeks after the shooting. How much faith should anyone have in the word of a cop who withholds evidence in a homicide case?

        (I’m back!)

      • towerflower says:

        Can you imagine the uproar that MOM would be giving if this photo had been detrimental to his client instead of supporting? No chain of custody, deleted off the original phone, who had access to the computer, etc.

      • leander22 says:

        How much faith should anyone have in the word of a cop who withholds evidence in a homicide case?

        That is an interesting question. But let’s look at the scenario:

        O’Mara flashes around a photo that was supposedly withheld from defense, triggering exactly what Sundance argues in people’s mind. This is a political prosecution. At the same time he defends SPD and challenges Serino to the extend that Serino thinks he may better hire a lawyer for the confrontation with him.

        Now O’Mara never mentions that exactly this photo was aparently withheld from the lead investigator Serino himself for several weeks.

        Maybe that would be too complicated a message, not too good for easy hammering in specific pro-Fogen talking points?

        The truth and nothing but the truth? Well he claims, truth only and evidence only, but he does not talk about the selectivity in his arguments or the selectivity in which he gives out passages from his dispositions. Does he?

      • Malisha says:

        I still don’t go for the idea that there were these blood trails at the scene, and then there was a clean-up by the EMT, and then there was a videotape in the garage of the station house without a bloody head, and hours later there was a photo of the same blood trails. I just do not go for it. And the fact that the first bloody-head photo was given to ABC is another very peculiar thing. Remember, when first confronted with the question of what he would do about that photo, O’Mara said the defense was not sure “how or if” the defense would be using it. Something is way way too fishy about that photograph. And about the bloody nose? EVERYBODY who gets a bloody nose in a fight wipes it on his sleeve. EVERYBODY. It is a reflex.

      • and don’t forget he no longer has the phone he used to take the pic.

        and the self appointed crime scene photographer also *forgot* all about the pictures he took of a dead teenager and the killer, in his own back yard! because you know, that always happens when you witness such an inconsequential incident like that.

        and when did he take them exactly? was tim smith just standing around watching, directing or what?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The SP is just using it as bait. If the Dfns is foolish enough to try submitting that picture they be hoisted on their own petard.

          Remember, if that picture gets knocked down after submission, it then stands as evidence of a desperate Dfns team, struggling to find exculpatory evidence, no matter how questionable it might be.

    • leander22 says:

      unitron, I admit it is hard to believe. On the other hand Wagner is a bit of a mystery to me and the handling of the photo seems a big murky to me.

      Remember he supposedly took the photos of both Fogen and the victim to find out if witnesses knew either one of the two. The same night slightly later he accompanied Serino to the teacher, and didn’t show him the images? Remember when Serino arrived Smith had already left with Fogen. I vaguely have 19:52 in mind and Serino arrives 20:05, (see S2711, 7 discovery, page 13, yes Smith leaves at 19:52:26).

      And Timothy Smith has to remind Wanger over three weeks later to pass the photo on to Serino? See first discovery Serino’s ROI of 03/22/2012 page 64. Serino states that he received the photos one day earlier on 03/21/2012 by email.

      Here is what Wagner states in his report, first report p. 18:

      on 3/18/12 I received information from Ofe T. Smith that no photo existed of George Zimmerman with his injuries. I then emailed both photos to Inv. Serino then requested I submit this narrative with my involvement in this case

    • whonoze says:

      Yes, I really believe the photo got deliberately photoshopped while in the custody of someone in the SPD, probably before Wagner turned it in. But it would have nothing to do with love for GZ, but covering their own butts for their decision to let him go. Trying to make their decision seem more justified, and to cover for the cops who coaxed/coached/led JohnW6 into his imaginary MMA throwdown statements.

      I cannot see messing with the photo as anything but a stupid move that entailed far more risk than reward. But there it is. The bridge of his nose is all wrong in that photo in a way that can not be explained by camera angle / foreshortening, etc. And it’s in the wrong aspect ratio despite being a proper scale down from an iPhone original, which couldn’t have occurred unless it was manipulated intentionally

      • xy11xy says:

        That ‘ole risk vs reward thing…. Bill Lee took the risk for George, and he lost his damned job, and tarnished his reputation.

        Is he married? I hope his wife fixed him good for that stupid move.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Actually, the bloodier that photo, the worse it is for gz. Remember, there was no blood or DNA belonging to gz on Trayvon’s hands….no way Trayvon could have put his hands on gz’s nose or mouth to smother him.

        It would have been much better for gz to have had NO blood on his face…..then it would have been easier for gz to say Trayvon tried to smother him.

        • Easier to claim, perhaps, except he would still have to explain how he could be the person heard shrieking if Trayvon was smothering him.

          And then there’s the problem of the shriek ending with the gunshot, precisely.

      • ay2z says:

        Smothering ended with the scream precisely. From the recording I used, the scream started 0.9 seconds before the gunshot. As if the gasp-like scream was cut off as something happened. There was a gap as the scream cut to silence, that would be a fraction of the second as the trigger was being pulled, I suspect, and Trayvon knew what was happening.

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        And once the state, who don’t want to see him walk, get the file, they’re not going to go over the binary with a fine tooth comb to look for any thing hinky before letting the public see it in all its Technicolor glory?

        unitron

      • KittySP says:

        yahtc says: Actually, the bloodier that photo, the worse it is for gz. Remember, there was no blood or DNA belonging to gz on Trayvon’s hands….no way Trayvon could have put his hands on gz’s nose or mouth to smother him.

        It would have been much better for gz to have had NO blood on his face…..then it would have been easier for gz to say Trayvon tried to smother him.

        I pray that photo is used at trial…because if I were a juror, I’d want to know how, with all the head bashing, face punching, nose and mouth smothering, during the beat down of his life…he managed to escape with just a small amount of blood concentrated to only that area of his face and tiny smudge at corner of his mouth.

      • groans says:

        @ onlyiamunitron re:

        And once the state, who don’t want to see him walk, get the file, they’re not going to go over the binary with a fine tooth comb to look for any thing hinky before letting the public see it in all its Technicolor glory?

        The state may well have gone over it with a fine tooth comb. Remember how long the defense whined about having only the B&W printout of the photo, and pestered the state to release an electronic version of it? There may have been good reason for the state holding it back – e.g., they were evaluating – and unconvinced of – its authenticity.

        We had a good bit of discussion here about this subject at the time (maybe it was during your hiatus).

      • FactsFirst says:

        I don’t believe Wagner took those pics.. He’s a lier and apart of the cover-up in my opinion… Either those pics came from the witness phone or GZ and his father prolly made those pics and sent them to Wagner.. I never believed Wagner’s story about forgetting he had them..

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’m with you on that, because Wagoner would know better than to erase the originals no matter what else he did with the pictures. For a police officer to erase original evidence is like he’s saying he’s never been inside a court room and never had to support a case.

          If he’s ever had to charge someone who then went to trial, he knows how valuable original evidence is. Thus erasure has to mean cover up! Besides which, because of him there is no chain of custody! Period. There is no way to prove where the picture actually came from and the phone with it’s card is gone so there’s no possibility of doing any kind of reconstruction. He’s lucky he won’t be charged with tampering with the evidence, but then, he knew he would not be, so that’s probably why he did it.

    • rayvenwolf says:

      Has nothing to do with love for him. Its really about covering their own behinds. As pointed out already the picture showed up weeks later and the original has been destroyed. From the vast majority who have seen the picture and even analyzed it the conclusion is that it was either altered and/or the way the photo was taken given the distortion and variance we see between it and the station photos.

      Is that gonna stop them from trying to use that photo in court? Heck no.

  9. yes and the picture along with the help of all the media coverage omar seeks out is working on people who would NOT otherwise believe such a ridiculous story of an armed man being attacked by an unarmed 17 year old.

    he knows what he is doing with the bloody picture every time he flashes it on TV.

  10. seallison says:

    I watched the CNN program with Piers Morgan interviewing Mark OMara where those words were spoken.

    Piers Morgan has the highest ratings and the highest views of any other show of its kind.

    On the anniversary of Trayvon Martins death, I found it incredible that the network would have the killers lawyer on national TV to start off with.

    If you noticed, at the end of the program with the closing credits, was a Twitter message from Robert Zimmerman Jr. thanking Piers for the program.

    They have been pushing the race aspect since day 1 as a means to deflect the attention from the evidence. It brought the money into the defence fund. So, the momentum built upon the race aspect. RZ Jr. touring the country and interviewing on racist radio programs, appearing on TV, writing his pontifications on his outrageous Twitter account, and writing letters for racist blogs.

    Yet, he Prosecution side does not have the same advantage of media coverage. I found it hard to believe that Judge Nelson said that they ALL have been out in the media (defence and Prosecution) because I have seen or read anything coming from the SPO.

    If anyone thinks that there will be a fair and impartial trial, that is, where no one has heard about the case, they are naive. The way the media has portrayed the Zimmerman’s as the poor victims of what they call – race-baiting, in every medium – locally, state-wide, nationally, and internationally has proved an effective deception and distortion of facts in evidence.

    • Jun says:

      Both the Omara and Fogenhats have been caught lying to the public repeatedly with Junior

      Only dumb ass rednecks buy their nonsense

      Anyone would prolly look at them and ponder if they are lying without even looking at the evidence

    • Malisha says:

      Judge Nelson knows how to preside over jury selection and she knows how to keep the trial about the evidence. Racism is not going to be part of the proceedings; murder will.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’ve always said that despite the racism in the case that it’s mainly about violence and irresponsible gun use – and at the bottom line, that’s what the court will address and what Fogen’s consequence’s will be about.

      • groans says:

        @ Malisha: I think so, too.

    • Oh yeah, every time they want to raise money, they just pick a fight with a prominent African American. Now that the man that could have been #Trayvon’s daddy has denied their subpoena…next they will pick a fight with him.

    • xy11xy says:

      CNN has a problem.

      Their thing is to have opposing “sides” appear and give their opinions – without challenge from the presiding television personality(in this case, Piers). However, the opposing sides in this matter are George Zimmerman and the whole freakin’ state of Florida!

      The State isn’t saying anything. They’re not giving interviews; so, CNN’s got a problem. CNN has to manufacture a side. The side they’ve manufactured is the Martin family and their attorneys.

      They bring George’s attorney on, then they bring the family on; but it’s not the family who charged George with murder…it’s the freakin’ STATE.

      So, it feels weird. It looks ugly. It strikes us as insensitive to pit family against killer of their son.

      CNN sucks.

    • leander22 says:

      Yet, he Prosecution side does not have the same advantage of media coverage. I found it hard to believe that Judge Nelson said that they ALL have been out in the media

      With all due respect seallison, I have to defend Nelson.She did not say prosecution has the same advantage as defense. She said this in the context of the argument by defense that Crump’s media statements, or the fact that he went public meant he waived his right. To put it really shortly. I think she was a bit ironic here hinted at Team Fogen or O’Mara’s extensive media activities in this context.

      • xy11xy says:

        Oh. So when she says both sides, she includes Ben Crump as a side?

      • seallison says:

        I think you may go back and watch the Hearing again. She said both sides have made statements in the public. Trayvon Martins family and Attorneys are NOT the prosecutors – one of the two sides she was referring to.

      • leander22 says:

        Aye, aye Seallison, I did, but it did not change my mind. It seems I love Debra Nelson, and that triggers a protective spirit.

        I think it is important that she does address Don West in this context.

        Anyway, about 11:50 into tape hat tip to Trent/aka Stateoftheinternet, 3rd tape hearing, February 22, 2013:

        Debra Nelson: Well, let me just ask you this question. Because

        Don West: Excuse me (? I do not understand the bit that follows).

        Debra Nelson: Yes, (she laughs, waves her hand) I’ve had rather different pleadings that have been provided to the court, different interviews given. If I were to say that because an attorney holds a press conference, then every single person in this court room representing a party from this case would be subject to having a disposition taken.

        Don West: I think it’s quite (to be quite honest, I don’t even care much to understand, maybe, ?”get brought”? “get caught”? can’t be “too broad”), I think it’s suited

        Debra Nelson: According to the pleadings I’ve had. I have not watched any of the interviews, but there’ve been publication in the pleadings of certain things that were said by everybody, ahem, counsel for defense, counsel for the state relating to this case at TV shows press conferences, that does not make Mr. O’Mara or Mr. De La Rionda a witness, why would that in and of itself make Mr. Crump a witness. What is it that he said that is relevant to the case? (The rest I don’t understand since Trent infers)

        Trent: The skeletor has no case.

        • xy11xy says:

          @leander22

          I am curious. Why do you say you love Debra Nelson? I guess I’m asking what qualities you see in her that cause you to say you love her?

          I am also wondering what changed between the time Judge Nelson made her original order, and the time she made the statement you excepted…

          I can’t imagine judges think it’s a good thing to reverse their own orders…or to be made to reverse their own orders.

          Crump was not a witness when Judge Nelson made her order, and was still not a witness afterward… so what changed?

          From where I’m calling from – and I’m not a lawyer – it look as if the judge received cover to challenge the defense’s request. If that is true, then why does she need cover?

          We (I) would like to think that bullying and intimidation never works – especially against adults, especially against powerful adults – but, people wouldn’t do it if it didn’t work..a little.

          It seems the NBC suit has stopped the media asking tough questions of O’Mara. They are powerful adults.

          The appelate court’s throwing Lester off the case for essentially doing what Judges do, which is to JUDGE, based on evidence before them….has that caused Judge Nelson to walk gingerly with O’Mara and team?

          She cannot be thrown off, but has the bullying made it’s mark?

      • leander22 says:

        I am curious. Why do you say you love Debra Nelson? I guess I’m asking what qualities you see in her that cause you to say you love her?

        I am a curious person too. ;) But this is the most dangerous passage of your reponse, dangerous since strictly it triggers too much.

        In a nutshell:
        There was a time I feared for DeeDee, there was a time I feared for Crump, and warned him to take care, seemingly there was a short time during the last hearing when I realized I start to fear for Nelson. In my own mental universe this is deeply connected with love, it makes me respond protective.

        I am also wondering what changed between the time Judge Nelson made her original order, and the time she made the statement you excepted…

        I am not sure, what you mean. The best summary of the chronology is given by Blackwell in his motion filed under:

        Motion Regarding Deposition of Benjamin Crump Esq

        by the state of Florida’s 18 circuit State v. Zimmerman (2012-CF-001083-A) case files.

        I can’t imagine judges think it’s a good thing to reverse their own orders…or to be made to reverse their own orders.

        Nelson never reversed her order, she always limited the topics Crump could be deposed for to the aspects in the motion/s by defense. I am very curious about her written order in this context, I would advise you to wait for that. I think Blackwellwell offered her an exquisite argument as a basis, never mind the attempts to ridicule him by West. But strictly this remark suggests to me they may have something up their sleeves. And there will be more trouble.

        Crump was not a witness when Judge Nelson made her order, and was still not a witness afterward… so what changed?

        Read Bruce Blackwell’s NON-PARTY BENJAMIN L. CRUMP, ESQ’S RESPONSE TO DEFEDANT’S MOTION TO COMPELL. Nelson allowed Crump as a court witness for a limited spectrum of questions addressed in the motion(s) as basically a non-party, according to Florida trial laws. Maybe I should have written seems to have allowed, I am no expert, that this is what it felt to me too. You followed all the hearings?

      • leander22 says:

        From where I’m calling from – and I’m not a lawyer – it look as if the judge received cover to challenge the defense’s request. If that is true, then why does she need cover?

        No, she is on her own, apart from the help she has as anyone of us. She must be much more aware of the juridical troubles arising out of the unique scenario, than I am. I doubt there are many valid precedents out there. That was the inherent threat in West’s ridicule of Blackwell.

        I also think, against all partisanship–wasn’t she suggested by Jeb Bush?–that if she handles the trial without juridical mistakes, she is a candidate for Florida’s Supreme Court.

        Don’t believe for one second she doesn’t have a very, very hard job in this case. She is at the center of dangerously political icy conditions, very easy to slither. Add to that the problems she faces as part of the state and the murky conditions triggered by Tracy Martin’s understandable distrust in Sanford’s police force.

        I am not sure, if it is juridically as easy as I would love to have it, the fact that police had no access to the phone records has always been a central issue by the Zimmerman support base. I would need to go back and read the defense motions in this context, did they refer to it, has Crump’s affidavit answered these questions? What does it mean if they did not clearly express it, legally?

        Keep in mind, the message that the average Joe and Jane out there crave for is the defense position, Sanford’s police force did a good job. Our institutions can be trusted.

      • leander22 says:

        I hope, I am not “condescending” or patronizing, I simply tell you what it feels to me.

        The appelate court’s throwing Lester off the case for essentially doing what Judges do, which is to JUDGE, based on evidence before them….has that caused Judge Nelson to walk gingerly with O’Mara and team?

        She cannot be thrown off, but has the bullying made it’s mark?

        Lester was clearly disgusted by Fogen/Shellie’s leading him around by the nose. His response was stark and showed much emotions. At the time I asked myself, never mind that I loved his response, if he really tried to get out of the case. But while writing this I realize there may be a much more simple reason, considering he is a judge. He was all too aware, it would/could influence his later rulings, problem a judge is supposed to be neutral. So maybe juridical history will consider it more through that lens, possibly with a little more distance on matters and beyond the heat of “the now”?

      • leander22 says:

        sorry, quote unquote missing:

        The appelate court’s throwing Lester off the case for essentially doing what Judges do, which is to JUDGE, based on evidence before them….has that caused Judge Nelson to walk gingerly with O’Mara and team?

        One of my favorite associations were that judge Lester felt Debra Nelson should take over, even suggested her, after I looked at her curriculum vitae. There is a strong psychological element involved in this “high profile” case, has any of the other judges a degree in psychology? I seem to remember she in fact has.

        They are both judges of the same circuit, and ideally have a very good and cooperative working atmosphere.

        The state has to deal with two opposing conspiracies, don’t forget.

      • leander22 says:

        strictly, conspiracy theories.

        Do I need to tell you towards which I lean, without being an complete adherent?

    • leander22 says:

      The way the media has portrayed the Zimmerman’s as the poor victims of what they call – race-baiting, in every medium – locally, state-wide, nationally, and internationally has proved an effective deception and distortion of facts in evidence.

      I absolutely agree with you in this context, and I think O’Mara is much more dangerous than the CTH crowd, since he knows how to carefully hide his tracks. His special type of incitement is much more difficult to grasp by the average citizen. It comes along so politely and silver-tongued, you know.

    • onlyiamunitron says:

      “On the anniversary of Trayvon Martins death, I found it incredible that the network would have the killers lawyer on national TV to start off with.”

      Did you not notice that he had Trayvon’s parents on the night before, which meant less screen time for the previous night’s Oscar re-cap with all the celebrities?

      And that Trayvon’s parents were otherwise occupied Tuesday night and not available?

      unitron

  11. notwithoutafight says:

    Extremely good article!!!

  12. “Let there be no mistake: Although he claims otherwise, Mark O’Mara and his client are deliberately appealing to racial hatred and fear of young Black males to literally get away with murder.”

    BOOM! Speak the truth and shame the devil, Professor.

    • Jun says:

      It is about as truthful as when Omara said

      “He would not try the case in the media”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’ve noted that quite a few women who support Fogen seem to be either consciously or subsconsciously afraid of black males.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        What was Jun’s word for women who fall in love with bad guys?

      • rayvenwolf says:

        @Cercando – wanna bet if ShelLie splits some fan mail will start pouring in? He wouldn’t be the first killer to get groupies of some sort. Holmes even has them.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        @rayvenwolf
        The love letters started right away– Osterman could have success compiling them into a book: “Love Letters to America’s Most Hated Man.” Starting with his own.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Jun, and boy did he ever lie when he opened his mouth and told that double whopper. you can’t believe a darn thing this man says. it seems to me that some in this country would love to see another Rosewood and Emmett Till. how shameful that these people want to see this POS get away with killing a child. could it be that some of them want to see Fogen get away with killing Trayvon, just because Casey got away with her crime of killing Caylee.

      I ask this because, a lot of his supporters have mentioned that case several times and, it makes me believe that is one reason why they want to see Fogen walk. they just don’t look at the fact that Casey was case was not being investigated by the DOJ either. this thing stands a chance of being charged with a hate crime and, I hope he does. he didn’t have to shoot this child and, he is deserving of anything that happens to him because of his actions.

  13. Trained Observer says:

    The professor’s post above covers the waterfront pure and simple. Certainly hope it’s been sent to CNN execs and lame journos like Steve Almasy.

  14. kindheart101 says:

    Thank you Professor. Great post.

  15. Trained Observer says:

    FBI Tells Fogen (and Nelson) to Stuff It … :)

    From Orlando Sentinel, pasted below for those of you having difficulty with the paywall.

    Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
    10:20 a.m. EST, February 27, 2013
    Lawyers for the FBI say the federal agency should not give George Zimmerman’s lawyers all the evidence from its case file, even though a Sanford judge has ordered it.

    The U.S. Department of Justice filed paperwork Monday, arguing that federal regulations trump a state court judge’s ruling. It’s asking that judge, Debra S. Nelson, to undo her Feb. 5 order.

    “This court has ‘no power or authority’ … to compel the FBI to produce the documents at issue here,” wrote Assistant U.S. Attorney Sean P. Flynn. In her order, Nelson agreed with a defense request and ordered the FBI to open its case file to Zimmerman’s attorneys.

    Zimmerman is the 29-year-old former Neighborhood Watch volunteer charged with second-degree murder for shooting Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, one year ago in Sanford.

    A few weeks after the slaying, following protest rallies across the country, the U.S. Department of Justice launched an investigation into the shooting to determine whether Trayvon’s civil rights were violated – whether he was killed because he was black.
    It’s not clear what that investigation has turned up. The FBI, which has done much of the work in the federal case, last week described the investigation as ongoing.

    Defense attorneys Mark O’Mara and Don West have argued that they’re entitled to all evidence gathered against their client, be it by local, state or federal authorities.

    They’ve received a limited amount of FBI evidence – interview summaries that say three-dozen people who knew Zimmerman told agents they saw no signs he was a racist.

    In the FBI court paperwork filed with Nelson in Sanford Monday, Flynn wrote that O’Mara had been told about but had failed to follow the proper procedures that might convince the federal agency to release the information.

    The supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution, Flynn wrote, makes it clear that federal regulations take precedence over a state judge’s order.

    Flynn hinted that if Nelson does not vacate the order, the department may go over her head and ask a federal judge to do it.

    rstutzman@tribune.com or 407-650-6394.

    Copyright © 2013, Orlando Sentinel

    • Malisha says:

      This is adorable. I LOVE IT. Nelson gave them what they wanted but they can’t have it! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

      Who ya gonna recuse now, guys?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        So near and yet so far . . .

      • Nelson has been telling them…you go fight it out with the Feds…you go fight it out with twitter and FB lol…they know they can’t so they want to bypass those steps to get what they want…meanwhile the clock keeps ticking. June 10 will be upon us!

      • xy11xy says:

        Why did she give them what they wanted?

      • leander22 says:

        Malisha, the important point seems to be this:

        In the instant matter, defense counsel in this pending state criminal case has been advised of the applicable procedures to request any authorized disclosure of Department of Justice documents, but has failed to do so.

        Maybe the procedures somehow prevent Fogen can have all of it, as I am sure he would like to. In any case the phrase pending state criminal case would shock me, if I were him.

        Maybe O’Mara has never had to deal with a client that makes dealing with the Department of Justice or Congress necessary. But I have to read it again to better understand.

        This will provide grist to the mill of Sundance’s political conspiracy. I am sure he will suspect Obama behind these quite old regulations or at least their specific application. ;)

      • ay2z says:

        xy11xy says:
        February 27, 2013 at 3:57 pm
        Why did she give them what they wanted?

        Could it be that she didn’t talk to Judge Perry about this? ;) Didn’t the defense in that case, continually test the court’s patience with demands for FBI info, which they had to get themselves?

      • Erica says:

        They are lazy lawyers!! They want the CTH, the FBI and Crump to do their jobs. They actually suck at their jobs right now.I bet Forgen is getting nervous but I suspect heavly medicated and can’t see how sloppy and lazy these 2 are.

    • roderick2012 says:

      Why would the FBI have to give George anything since no charges have been filed against him…yet?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Why? Precisely …
        As for the FBI turning over interview summaries that say three-dozen people who knew Fogen told agents they saw no signs he was a racist. … well swell. That doesn’t mean the feds have not since spoken with a gazillion others who say otherwise. ( We know the cousin who claimed molestation by Fogen says she thinks he’s a racist.)

        Looks like the Feds are biding their time. No need to muddy up the main and looming concern of the moment — Justice for Trayvon on Corey’s murder 2 charge. Once that’s squared away, the Feds, if they’ve got the goods, can haul out all sorts of dirt on Fogen, and I’m betting there’s plenty.

      • It’s premature to decide if the FBI has to turn over anything because defense counsel has not filed a necessary request with the agency.

        Yet another example of MOM not doing his job. He’s too busy trying his case in the court of public opinion, showing his mug, flashing bloody photos for the camera, and playing the race card while denying that he’s doing it.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Maybe MOM didn’t know how to fill out the forms???

      • Trained Observer says:

        Any speculation on whether Judge Nelson will vacate her order … or whether she’ll just led a federal judge go over her head … ?

      • KA says:

        Yesterday, ont he anniversary of Trayvon’s death, O’Mara went further and released [filtered] letters he has received from Trayvon supporters “threatening” or saying harsh words to his victim client, GZ.

        This is officially a three ring circus.

      • Rachael says:

        Maybe he should show some of the comments Trayvon’s family and even deceased Trayvon has gotten – unfiltered.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Professor, I agree with you and, I also believe that MOM wants the state and the feds to do his job for him while he as you said, try this case in the court of public opinion. this is the reason that he is not ready to start this trial on the date set forth by the judge and, it was agreed upon by both sides back in October. this man is ludacris in every sense of the word.

    • Jun says:

      I stated that earlier last year that FBI does not have to turn over anything to Fogenhats

      Obviously Snake Oil Rep number one Omara with Child Stalker Killer Murderer Racist Fogenhats would stand no chance vs the USA LMAO

      • Erica says:

        They are running out of time to fight..They would be better served nicely asking the FEDs for help filling out the form. Sounds like they ticked them off!!

    • lady2soothe says:

      Thank you, I’m one of those who can no longer get past the paywall.

      • towerflower says:

        lady: It was suggested to me to clear out the cookies and such from your history. I have Windows 8 and can’t figure out where they hide that now. But I got on explorer from the desktop and cleared out the internet files from there and it worked for me.

        • lady2soothe says:

          Oh! Thank you. I know at one point you could click refresh just as the page began to load but that hasn’t worked. I’ll clear the cookies and hopefully that’ll take care of the problem as there were a few articles I was trying to get to last week and couldn’t.

        • lady2soothe says:

          Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! That was it. Simple solution to an irritating problem.

      • leander22 says:

        lady, I still get access without paywall. And to be able to watch the videos here I am mainly on the web via an US IP now.

        Did you pay for a while? I did, in the early Trayvon Martin case times. I accepted a limited offer. After it expired, they offered me to continue it for a while, but when I kept ignoring it, I could access it again without any problems. But that’s quite some time ago, and I do not remember it exactly how and why now.

        • lady2soothe says:

          No I live in LA and even though I read what The Sentinel writes about the case I have no interest in their other articles. However *towerflower* suggested I delete the cookies and whatyaknow, it worked like a dream and I got in instantly! Thank you for your assistance, the helpfulness is much appreciated.

      • towerflower says:

        lady, I don’t remember who told me to do that but they deserve the credit, not me, I’m just passing on their advice.

  16. Malisha says:

    “Dispel racial overtones” is code for, “ignore the realities of Fogen’s motive just as you should ignore the realities of the evidence that he committed murder.”

    That’s like saying Fogen was not racist because he called Trayvon Martin a fucking punk instead of a fucking coon. HA HA HA HA HA!

    O’Mara knows he’s in a losing battle; he is trying to distract everyone with “My client is not a racist” just as he tried to distract everyone with “My client’s nose was broken.” Trayvon Martin was killed for “walking while Black” and Fogen killed him because HE wanted to be a hero who would be elevated to law enforcement status, and he chose someone HE thought was a throw-away to use in his fantasy. Problem is, he picked on the wrong victim at the wrong time in the wrong place.

    By the way, “the evidence shows that my client did not start the fight” is just plain idiotic. That’s why BDLR has not even paid attention to the issue for a single minute; Fogen announced his intent to not let the “asshole” “get away” minutes before the “fight” started. There is nothing O’Mara can do to make that go away. Perhaps his lawsuit against NBC has given him some purchase in making other journalists bend over and let him screw THEM to get the articles he wants published, but that’s all that happened. Judge Nelson is not going to be scraping and bowing to O’Mara’s cracking the whip in his ring of the circus so Steve Almasy’s kow-towing to O’Mara (and other broadcast journalists soft-peddling to Fogen and his crowd) won’t matter in the least, come the trial.

    I am so so so soooooo glad they recused Judge Lester! It’s karma.

    • Rachael says:

      O’Mara is totally playing to the racists. Remember when he showed that photo of Trayvon at the convenience store to supposedly show his size or some such nonsense? Well perhaps that was one aspect of it, but the other was to scare racists – see, a tall skinny black kid – oogly boogly. Now why would I say this? Because I looked around at the outhouse and other news articles that talked about it and saw the comments. I saw so many comments where people said things like, “Oooh, if I saw him in there, I wouldn’t go in.” WTF? Who would not go into a convenience market because they see a black kid in there? Certainly a racist would not be afraid of a lone black teen, now would they? C’mon!!! There was only ONE reason he showed that picture, and IF it was so people could see “what he looked like,” well we know who “those” people were because who else would give a flying fart? I mean its a kid in a store for cripes sake!!!

      To say they are not catering to racists and they are not trying this in the media is just insane.

    • Jun says:

      LMAO

      Their lawsuit against NBC sounds like a Saturday Night Live skit

      They are suing NBC for broadcasting actions and words undertaken by Fogenhats alleging using Fogenhats’ own words and actions means NBC is at fault for making him seem racist

      So their case is

      It is NBC’s fault because Fogenhats told cops he thought a black teenage kid walking was suspicious, and he had his hands in his waistband and he’s a black male

      LOL

      If the NBC thing even goes to trial, you know those 5235 or whatever number of calls Fogenhats made on black teenage males for simply walking around the neighborhood will be coming up

      Fogenhats “NBC made me look like a murderer that is racist because I told cops a black kid was suspicious for walking around so I stalked and killed the kid, I mean going in the same direction”

      • aussie says:

        To me, the funniest thing about the NBC suit is, he sent them a copy of the tape HE doctored to leave out the whole “coon” line altogether. Like they weren’t going to find out? having a copy of their own an’ all?

      • xy11xy says:

        Seem racist to who? It seems they’ll have to prove that someone heard that specific broadcast, concluded based solely on that broadcast that George is racist then took actions against racist George that injured him in some way.

        I ‘ain’t no lawyer, but…by golly, I don’t think they can do it.

      • leander22 says:

        To me, the funniest thing about the NBC suit is, he sent them a copy of the tape HE doctored to leave out the whole “coon” line altogether.

        I haven’t heard about that. I only read West’s motion. Do you remember the source?

      • ladystclaire says:

        @aussie, yea he did do a little editing himself with the tape that was sent to the attorneys for NBC. he deleted effin “COON” all together. who do these people think they are fooling? what a very *dumb* thing to do on the part of Fogen’s civil attorneys.

      • Erica says:

        Well lets hope he wins so the Martins can swoop up every penny!!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Now there’s an idea… They can wait until Trayvon’s family wins their lawsuit against GZ, then notify Tracey that they’re about to settle, in time for Tracey to come pick up the check! Hahhaha… Wouldn’t hat be hottie toddie? GZ won big time, seven million dollars and can’t get a dime because Tracey came into court with an order and picked up the NBC settlement check! Boy would he have something to snarl about for the next 30 years to life!

    • xy11xy says:

      Perhaps his lawsuit against NBC has given him some purchase in making other journalists bend over and let him screw THEM to get the articles he wants published, but that’s all that happened.

      That has got to be the reason they bring him on to basically say whatever he wants without challenging him. I bet he just calls them up and says he wants to talk, and they give him a segment. I bet those CNN lawyers have warned them off saying anything challenging to him…we don’t wanna’ get sued like NBC! We’re an objective news network…unlike NBC!

      Bunch of losers.

    • Dan Q. Smith says:

      I agree! What they did him with the lying about the money and the passport and he still got out! And every other sentance, “I’m sure you never did anything wrong, Mr. O’Mara.” Gag!

  17. When evil gets to rockin; karma comes a knockin!

    • kindheart101 says:

      Love it! :)

      • Kindheart,

        I loved the poem you wrote. It was so touching. It made me tear up. Did you use to post on Huff Post?

        • kindheart101 says:

          I still do SouthernGirl. It’s kind of like banging your head against a wall…………..but, I still have many dear friends there fighting a fight. I am happy to say I am getting more and more of them to read this blog for it’s honesty, truthful posts and support. :)

          • I was Sky over there. :)

          • kindheart101 says:

            Oh OK. :) I have been on HP from the day this hit the news. It’s brutal at times, but I refuse to shut up! They are public threads, and I will always speak my mind in Trayvon’s defense. They flag and flag and flag me, and sometimes, depending on the moderator, my comments are removed. I can almost hear the groans from them when I just continue posting. LOL

            There is a thread marking the 1 year Anniversary of Trayvon’s Shooting, and a look back over the year.

            I made this post:

            This was no Shooting, this was Murder! We have several different stories from Zimmerman claiming what happened that night, non of which add up, and even a lame offering from him on the Hannity show, that is was “Gods Plan?”

            I came to my own conclusions, after seeing first hand, his lack of injuries, where Trayvon’s body was found laying, phone records, interviews. and Zimmerman’s own twisted stories and anger projection while on the phone with NEN.

            IMO…….this is what happened:

            My tears still flow, I wonder why,
            it had to be, that I should die?
            He followed me, I ran away,
            What did I do? What did I say?

            Who was this man, where did he go,
            I turned around, then I would know!
            He stood there, looked me in the eyes,
            his anger raged, to my demise.

            I asked him “what his problem was?’
            he didn’t like me, “Just Because!”
            My hood was up, my skin was brown,
            next thing I knew, I’m on the ground.

            I cried, I screamed, he pulled a gun,
            I knew right then, my time was done.
            I begged him stop, please let me live,
            but that’s one wish he did not give.

            I heard the blast, I felt the pain,
            and as I died, I felt the rain.
            What did I do? What did I say?
            Oh Zimmerman….You’re going to pay!

            RIP Trayvon on the 1 Year Anniversary of your MURDER!

            And on day 366…….we are 1 day closer to Justice.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @Kindheart101

            Compelling as always….thank you….

          • kindheart101 says:

            It just sickens me all the games they are playing. A Defense is one thing, but when you have no defense, play games, and try to drag the Victim, his family and attorney through the mud……..and try the case every single day, on the news, and in the public eye? He really has to wise up, or go back to law school. IMO

          • blushedbrown says:

            @Kindheart101

            >>>> He really has to wise up, or go back to law school. IMO

            How about both. :smile:

          • kindheart101 says:

            I agree Blushed! I sure don’t see his door being beaten down with potential clients in the furture, that’s for sure.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @Kindheart101

            I think O’mara made himself look like a damn fool, I don’t think any person would go to him for legal representation.

          • kindheart101 says:

            Oh Blushed, I totally agree. He has been shown to be lazy, putting off depo’s, whining, begging for information from the Prosecution…….Hell, he doesn’t even know how to file to get information from the FBI! He still hasn’t filed for a SYG hearing……although that’s all he pukes in public daily! Just about every one of his tantrums have been Denied by Judge Nelson. He’s a loser!

            I hope they offer cheese at the Defense table, during the Trial, to go along with all the WHINING he has done!

      • @Kindheart

        You are good. I’m going to share this on our blog. It’s very good and so sad.

    • operacarla says:

      Beautiful Kindheart!

    • cielo62 says:

      SouthernGirl2- LOVE IT! Karma is about to knock the door off its hinges, come June!

      Sent from my iPod

  18. FactsFirst says:

    No DISRESPECT Professor, but “F” GZ, O’MONEY, THE HORSES they rode in on, and THE HORSES behind the horses they rode in on!!!!

    I had to let that out….

    Carry on….

    • KA says:

      Rachael,

      He back peddled a bit from last year. Last year he felt there should be “no” charges and this year he is saying “wrong” charges. Interesting.

      • Rachael says:

        Yep. Last time it was no charges, now it is: “Look, ****Trayvon Martin was a victim who shouldn’t have died**** and in my view there’s a lot of moral responsibility on the shoulders of Zimmerman.”

        “The question is, is it a criminal responsibility? And if it is a criminal responsibility, of what degree? It’s certainly not the kind of murder charge that he’s now facing.’’

        I bet it kills the outhousers to hear ****Trayvon Martin was a victim who shouldn’t have died****and in my view there’s a lot of moral responsibility on the shoulders of Zimmerman.”

        Especially since they were the ones wanting Dersh to make the TV rounds and talk about this because of what he said last year. They really thought Dersh was their man.

        Gee, do you think that by saying “wrong” charges, even though he says the prosecutor charged high, he means they are wrong because they should be 1st degree murder ;)

        LOL

        One can dream, can’t they.

        • Although Professor Dershowitz did not say it, he can only be thinking of a manslaughter charge. That is the only available lesser charge, since a death resulted.

          I feel a bit like the man who pulled a mule to the edge of a stream but couldn’t make him drink.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            or as dorothy parker would say – “you can lead a horticulture, but you cannot make her think”
            ;)

      • Rachael says:

        Yes, Professor, I assumed that was what he meant too. I was being facetious. LOL.

      • Rachael says:

        That was why the wink – because I know that 1st degree murder isn’t what he was thinking, but like I said, I can dream, can’t I? LOL

      • xy11xy says:

        He was wrong then, and he’s still wrong now.

        “Moral” responsibility, huh?

        lmao

    • Tzar says:

      Man has wild ass opinion
      film at 11

    • truthseeker66 says:

      This law proff. Is not making an argument. He is saying fogen should not be charged for murder. But he does not know what if any charges should b… I think this guy is a racist.

    • Jun says:

      I think it is really stupid, his allegation

      charging someone with a crime immediately is not going to make someone plea bargain

      everyone is afforded a lawyer if they are in legal and law troubles and the lawyer would look at the issue and help the client

      It would not necessarily cause anyone to plea bargain because almost everyone does not want to go to prison so obviously most will fight it out in court unless plea bargaining is a better option, from which the defense lawyer will recommend

      His argument makes no sense

      • In his defense, he does have a point. The only problem is that the situation he describes does not apply to the defendant’s case.

        It is not at all uncommon for prosecutors to overcharge a case in order to basically extort a guilty plea from a defendant who fears going to trial.

        I do not believe this case is overcharged. If anything, I think it may be a murder 1, but murder 2 is an acceptable compromise and easier to prove.

      • leander22 says:

        thanks, Prof, that’s how it felt to me.

        I would also slightly question the “everyone is afforded a lawyer” position. Sure s/he is, but the fees the lawyer get for that type of work wouldn’t move someone like Dershowitz to write a single line. So my question is what exactly drives him to comment on the issue so much and the way he does.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Dershowitz is…

      Saying
      Everything a
      Nincompoop
      Is
      Likely to
      Enunciate.

    • Malisha says:

      Shame on Dershowitz. If he thinks he can escape the obvious conclusions by saying that Fogen is “morally responsible” for a death while HE insists the death was not the result of murder, shame on him forever. In fact, it was most probably UNDERcharged, not OVERcharged, and his statement that Fogen cannot get a fair trial because of a “terrible terrible prosecutor” is an offense against the law itself. Fogen could not get a fair trial if there were a “terrible terrible judge.” Regardless of the terribleness of either defense counsel OR prosecutor, a defendant could get a fair trial if a judge abided by the law.

      Dershowitz appears to have entered some stage of dementia. What a disgrace that he is still being quoted all over the place.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Malisha, no kidding — “some stage of dementia” seems worth serious consideration. And this isn’t the only case where his commentary is not only off the wall, but just plain wrong. He needs to be put under observation.

        • xy11xy says:

          Maybe he’s having a nervous breakdown? I saw him on CNN during the bombing of Gaza, and the muscle below his eye kept twitching….like a tick. It just kept bouncing up and down the whole time.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Trained Observer, not only that, he needs to be put out of circulation PERIOD! I haven’t heard him comment on the Holmes case in Colorado, have any of you guys? why in some peoples opinions should Fogen be allowed to get away with murder, when defendants who have committed the same kind of crime, should in some cases be put to death or spend the rest of their lives locked up. we all know the answer to this question don’t we.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Since he has no business sticking his hacked-up nose in this case, I think it’s ok if I refer to him as dooshowitz.

    • Malisha says:

      Dershowitz’s position is ridiculous. On the facts alone, look:

      1. Fogen offered ONE, and only ONE, explanation of why he killed Trayvon Martin. He did not say it was an accident when he went for his cell phone and accidentally pulled his gun and it went off. He did not say he meant to shoot up in the air to alert police to where he was but he missed and accidentally hit Trayvon Martin. He did not say any explanation that would make the killing “manslaughter” at all. He gave ONE explanation, over and over (although he changed the details each time to suit what he thought was the need of the moment): He was attacked while innocently looking for an address, and he was beaten so savagely and so violently that he feared for his life, and he killed in self-defense. That was his ONLY explanation and therefore, there is no “lesser” charge that would fit either the physical evidence (which supports the murder charge) or the story promulgated by the defendant.

      2. Therefore, belief that Fogen did not commit MURDER under Florida law would mean that his self-defense story is credible. It is obviously not. So why would Dershowitz (and Jeralyn Merritt and others) even support a lesser charge? ONLY ONE REASON: They believe the killing of Trayvon Martin should not be PUNISHED as a murder is PUNISHED. They believe the killing of Trayvon Martin is not really SUCH a bad crime as it’s being made out to be by all those Black activists (and most of the white people who have heard about the case).

      Dershowitz’s subtle apologetics about the “moral responsibility” for Trayvon’s death is not impressive. HE’s our moral compass now? Dershowitz? The law lays down the things that our society will not allow. It does not say, “It is illegal to do something that is not moral.” It specifies individual acts that are defined as crimes and even gives the specific punishments to be meted out for committing those crimes. Morals has nothing to do with it.

      Dershowitz should either take a refresher course in morals or get a good neuropsych work-up. Killing someone with ill will or malice is the crime of Murder-2 in Florida. If it’s not accidental and it’s not self-defense, it’s punishable as Murder-2. If Fogen succeeds with his self-defense claim he will not be punished for the crime of murder. But what he did does not fit the description of any lesser charge on the books in Florida.

      I don’t know why Dershowitz has such a hard-on for Corey. That’s his business. But I sure would like to see some in-depth analysis of all the cases he squawks about so we can tabulate the following questions:

      1. When does Dershowitz think a crime is not really so bad?
      2. When does Dershowitz think a victim of a crime is really not so important?
      3. How many cases has Dershowitz come out screaming about because the defendants were overcharged? I mean, there must be a million a year where the defendants are overcharged; why do we hear such an outcry this time from the big guy at Harvard? I remember a mother in Maryland charged with 28 felonies because she sent her daughter a birthday card; Dershowitz not only did not want to help, he didn’t write a little article screaming that she was over-charged and he didn’t attack Prosecutor Cassilly, who is one of the most corrupt of all prosecutors in the state court system.

      Shame on him 100 times over. He really thinks we should let Fogen off with a little lecture, such as:

      “Mr. Defendant Sir, you really should should admit moral responsibility for having killed this young man who was not committing any felonies when you picked him out and called NEN on him. Why don’t you kind of think about that for a while, OK?”

      • leander22 says:

        thanks for this really brilliant rant on the Dersh, Malisha. Admittedly I was a bit surprised to see him surface so prominently in this case. And in a way it makes sense. .

        good night all

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The Treepers are surely taking this and running with it to mean self-defense.

      • Xena says:

        @Two sides

        The Treepers are surely taking this and running with it to mean self-defense.

        With sovereign citizenship belief, which is what the treeslum’s articles are based on, they have their own version of “common law.” In their version, it gives them the right to retaliate using more force than what is necessary in order to exercise their “birth” rights against those whose citizenship and rights derive from a constitutional amendment after the Civil War.

  19. katieunc says:

    UH OH! The FBI is telling MOM and camp NO NO! HMMM they say they will go over Judge Nelson’s head if needed. I wonder who his supporters will blame for this one?

    • rayvenwolf says:

      Obama. Don’t you know that from the moment the POTUS said if he had a son he’d look like Trayvon, that the die was cast against GZ. Its all one big conspiracy man.

  20. KA says:

    Hey, did anyone notice (and I have not read comments) the FBI response to the request for records?

    [fixed your link]

  21. ay2z says:

    May I ask who was the camera phone photo taker (vs ‘photographer} who took this photo? It was a police officer if I remember right, but was there also a neighbor who took photos?

    And was this neighbor wearing light pants, possibly with a side leg pocket and a mid-grey or brown short sleeved shirt? In yesterday’s Channel 6 video report called ‘One year later–Remembering Trayvon Martin”, there is a civilian by this description standing with a group of police officers INSIDE the taped crime scene area at the ‘T’ area.

    If you watch this video you can see the black haired civilian looking south {at 1:28 seconds) as if trying to see the body location activities while the police officers talk amongst themselves (he’s in a position to overhear).

    What was this neighbor’s role, if he spoke with the fogen and took photos, was there a reason he would position himself inside the taped area and with the group of police officers?

    He’s in there like a wet shirt, in the rain, standing there, getting wet.

    Where are HIS photos of the fogen’s bloody face?

    • xy11xy says:

      In one of the police reports, a cop mentions seeing a resident inside the tape. He asks the man to leave… If memory serves, I think he said the man was standing beside the person keeping the evidence log…or scene contamination log…or something like that.

      It makes my blood boil how carelessly SPD officers handled this case.

      You mean to tell me they couldn’t figure out – based on what the victim had, and didn’t have on him – that the kid lived close by?

      Trayvon had no house keys, no car keys, he was on foot…he had recent food purchases – icy cold drink and candy – which could only have come from a convenience store… he had a few bills and coins stuffed in his pocket. He had a phone earpiece laying beside him, probably partway inside his pocket, so he must have been on the phone…

      You mean to tell me these cops didn’t know this kid lived close by, most likely in that very same complex?

      Why didn’t they knock on every door in that corridor of houses until they found his family?

      • KittySP says:

        “You mean to tell me these cops didn’t know this kid lived close by, most likely in that very same complex?

        Why didn’t they knock on every door in that corridor of houses until they found his family?”

        @xy11xy – that’s something that has bothered me since I began following this case. How is it you have a victim that could easily have been identified that night, had they bothered to extend the perimeter of going door to door, another 70 yds?! They saw the color of his skin and decided he didn’t belong. Common sense, let alone good detective work, should’ve kicked in once the contents of candy and cold drink were found at the scene…Imo, finding those items should have prompted them to go knock on front door of each home along that dog walk! Unlike claims from GZ of knowing EVERYONE in the development…they did not!

        • xy11xy says:

          @KittySP

          I feel they wanted to shut the whole thing down. Just label the kid as John Doe and wait… and hope nobody cares about him.

        • xy11xy says:

          I think after GZ is convicted, the SPD will have some tough questions to answer.

          Why didn’t they do drug and alcohol testing on George? Why didn’t they take nail scrapings from him?

          How come all the pictures they have of him at the scene are sketchy, fly-by-night kind of stuff that people take with their personal phones and just happen to forget for weeks. Where are the official police photos of his face and head while at the scene?

          What the hell kind of police department is this?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          In that time frame, if they’d have knocked on Brandy’s door, all they’d have gotten was Chad. Probably better they didn’t. Imagine poor Chad there all alone knowing that Trayvon was in some kind of trouble or worse, if they told him Trayvon was dead, which I wouldn’t put past these bumbling oafs.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “Imagine poor Chad there all alone knowing that Trayvon was in some kind of trouble or worse, if they told him Trayvon was dead…”

            Considering that the only photo of Trayvon which they had to show around was post-mortem, they’d have had a difficult time keeping his demise a secret.

            unitron

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yeah, I didn’t think of that, I was just focused on the talking they might do. Asking if anyone was missing. Would they really show that picture to a child? I guess they’d have to, eh? Wow that would have been even more terrible.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Kitty and xy,
        It’s not just the Skittles and soft drink, it’s also that he was wearing a watch, had money and a heart-stickered phone, no keys… everything said “Local Resident!”

    • aussie says:

      That IS the photo-taker.. witness Jon13 who took the iPhone picture of the back of GZ’s head (and one of Trayvon’s body) and was hanging around inside the crime scene tape on quite a few original TV images.

      • Malisha says:

        I’m thinking accessory after the fact. I’m thinking obstruction. I’m thinking “MMA-John” has a lot to worry about if he’s going to get on the stand.

      • Donna Flores says:

        The one that lied and said Trayvon was hitting him MMA style and that Zimmerman was the one yelling but later he and his wife have changed their stories

    • whonoze says:

      The photo of GZ’s bloody nose was taken by SPD Ofc. Michael Wagner.

  22. ay2z says:

    O’Mara’s got another headline today on Lccal 6, again his client’s racist supporters are spewing their hate towards the parents in comments. Local 6 is so tolerant of hate on their boards, almost like they ignore for a reason.

  23. SRA says:

    Rolling around in wet grass is NOT life threatening… and George knew the police were on their way..

    Further, George failed to identify himself and diffuse the situation. In one of the SPD interviews Serino asks GA if he spoke to Trayvon or identified himself.. George’ response was , “NO.. that’s not my job”.

    If George was on the ground and Trayvon Martin was kicking him in the head and ribs, that could be considered life threatening.

    • The defendant never said, “Trayvon Martin was kicking him in the head and ribs,” and there is no independent evidence that happened. Therefore, that possibility is irrelevant and it does not matter if it “could be considered life threatening.”

    • xy11xy says:

      Well, if that’s not his “job”, then what exactly is his JOB? Is George saying that he was performing duties that night? Is he saying that following Trayvon was his JOB? And..exactly what JOB would that be? Was George receiving payment for this JOB he mentions?

    • kllypyn says:

      He was never kicked in the head. if he had trayvon wouldn’t have ended up dead. and he would have suffered severe injuries. just like he was never slammed in to the sidewalk.

    • Trained Observer says:

      SRA, I think the concern here — at least one of the concerns — is that when you come up with a totally fictitious “if if if” scenario to make your point, it gets picked up by Fogen supporters and spread around like manure gospel.

      Fogen himself has told so many whoppers that it just complicates things when you throw in uninvolved body parts and bodily moves that no one (not even the liar brigade ) ever said occurred . Suffice it say that the kid with the candy was not a threat to the stalker with a gun.

  24. jm says:

    I am following the Jodi Arias case and I find so many similarities between GZ and her. They both loved the attention from press so much that they made appearances to tell their side of the killing of their victims. Today I believe Jodi’s appearances and her proven lies are going to get her a death sentence. The prosecutor is showing these interviews to prove she is a liar. There are also text messages etc and phone calls to prove things are not as she says in her claims of self-defense.

    I now have faith that GZ is going to end up in prison because of his contradictory statements on reenactment video and on Hannity. I also can’t wait to see if there is anything to prove his guilt on text messages.

    These 2 murderers, Jodi and GZ, are part of their own undoing because they were narcissistic enough to believe they could get over on people by telling their twisted lies on taped interviews where they contradicted their previous stories/lies.

    Wonder if GZ is watching the Arias trial and seeing her tangled web of lies being exposed just like his are going to be in June in front of millions of people.

    • Xena says:

      @jm. Arias reminds me of GZ during his interview with Singleton and Serino. She too has selected memory loss and lacks collaborating evidence and testimony. The prosecutor is doing such an excellent job that I don’t think her attorneys can recover on re-direct.

  25. blushedbrown says:

    Tick Tock

    2472 hours to go……

    Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock (time is flying) hahahahhah

  26. looolooo says:

    Brilliant post Professor. I too was disheartend by CNN’s biased and under researched article. I hadn’t heard that CNN and FAUX have merged. I suppose this explains why Piers Morgas has been allowing RZJ to continue to spew untruths, utterly racist and inflammatory statements, almost completely unchallenged. Morgan, Maher and others have never countered with the fact that there was absolutely NO GZ DNA on Trayvon’s hands! Also the documented fact that it is GZ’s nature to be aggressive and confrontational. Those are biggies! Yet no one seems to bring it up. Why?

    • parrot says:

      Looolooo says:

      “Also the documented fact that it is GZ’s nature to be aggressive and confrontational. Those are biggies! Yet no one seems to bring it up. Why?”

      Actually Maher brought up GZ’s ‘scrapes with the law’ and tendency to look for trouble. He even flattered RZJ of being different from his brother… gentle.

      Interesting to see RZJ pleased to be favorably compared to his brother. Clear sibling rivalry between those two.

      Watch it here:

      http://vimeo.com/59844145

      • looolooo says:

        Parrot: ain’t that the truth. RZJ is tickled pink that GZ’s violent tendencies have catapulted him (rzj) into the media spotlight. he (naturally) was near orgasm when Fail Maher (shockingly) completmented him for being a good spokesperson, and near about wished him future success on some television outlet. WTF! yes he did mention GZ’s former scrapes, but he did NOT say that GZ has previously singled out other complete strangers (unprovoked) with his typical aggressive and violent behavior. also, his having often been fired by employers for severly aggressive behavior. Faux News is no suprise, but CNN, P. Morgan, B. Maher and others have been very dissapointing…..to say the least. i wonder what’s behind all of this. why are credible journalists keeping silent on these known facts, and allowing MOM, RZJ, and others to continue to lie and exagerate unchallenged. i really wish Lawrence O’Donnell or Martin Bashir could get score an interview with MOM or RZJ. They’d crucify them with the facts!

    • blushedbrown says:

      @Shannon
      Good article. Thanks for posting.

      • at the end of the article they made a mistake “Unlike Zimmerman’s team, the Martin family hasn’t chosen to release photos. There is no stark image of Trayvon’s dead body — shot through the chest — bloodied in the gardens of Sanford, with his *****knuckles bruised from a fight for his life*******. But perhaps Americans need to see that image as much as they needed to see Emmett Till’s broken body. Otherwise, it seems, Zimmerman’s family and legal team are hell-bent on rewriting history and pushing a new narrative that says the victim had no right to live.”

        I texted them to correct that! it was only 1 scratch to the inside of his finger right, not 2?? I said there was only 1. I hope i’m right !!;)

      • Malisha says:

        Shannon, that was a gross error. Trayvon Martin’s hands were not bruised from a fight for his life; he never had the opportunity to fight for his life because Fogen had a gun. The little scratch on the SIDE of his fourth finger was not a defensive wound OR a bruise from punching someone. Trayvon Martin, according to uncontrovertible physical evidence, was unable to actively fight to defend himself that evening. He did scream in terror and call out for help, hoping to drive away his attacker or to attract the attention of someone who could save him.

    • Jun says:

      The whole modus operandi of the Fogenhats gang is the use of intimidation, lies, deflection, and blaming everyone else except themselves

      Junior actually threatened media sources unless they post what he wants in regards to this case

      A lot of media only care about ratings, morals are last on their minds

      A prime example is when Junior tries to deflect and places blame

      He claims that people are making claims against him and his brother with no proof, then goes on to make claims against media sources and the civil rights leaders with no proof while there is plenty of proof and reason for people to feel Fogenhats acted in a racist manner and depraved manner and that his gang and family have an agenda

      Their goal is get you to the point of being unable to say anything at all about the case

      Does not sound like it is helping their case though LOL

  27. Lonnie Starr says:

    CNN is going to get “Fox Newsed” as in election night 2012. And they wonder why people are turning to the blogs for their news. Hey CNN, you’re surrendering your franchise… again!

  28. Malisha says:

    Whatever the outcome of the Trayvon Martin case, it will be viewed less as a determination of the shooter’s guilt or innocence and more as a victory or loss for civil rights, George Zimmerman’s lawyer fears.

    Mark O’Mara said he has been busy trying to dispel the racial overtones in the case by getting out more evidence about his client.

    I just re-read these two paragraphs and did a little mini linguistic analysis. Here’s how I would write the two paragraphs:

    Fearing a loss in court, George Zimmerman’s lawyer hopes to divert attention from the actual “guilt or innocence” issue involved in the criminal trial and believes his role in the case, and his reputation, can be better served by blaming such a loss on the civil rights movement — or, as some would say, “Black activism.”

    Mark O’Mara has tried to ignore actual physical evidence in favor of promoting “evidence about his client” — or a view of his client’s character, rather than an analysis of the events that actually took place on 2/26/2012 when his client killed Trayvon Martin.

    And I would have to add a concluding paragraph:

    The problem in this approach, however, is that the character of a defendant cannot be used by prosecutors to help convict him of a crime; he must be proven to have actually committed the crime charged, whether he is a good person or a bad one. Thus, “more evidence about his client” would be completely inadmissible to either convict or acquit George Zimmerman. A defendant can be a bad person who has not committed the crime charged, or even a good person who has. The “evidence” would have to relate to the crime, and not to the person on trial. Moreover, evidence about a defendant’s goodness or badness is possibly relevant to sentencing, although not to the guilt-or-innocence phase of proceedings.

  29. Judy75201 says:

    O’Mara is really starting to get on my nerves.

  30. esentrick says:

    From David Knechel:

    “This isn’t my best upload. It was quite dark, which is too bad, because I don’t have a professional video camera, film equipment or lighting. I may try this again with a different camera, but I think you will understand my point. What I neglected to mention in the video is that the woman last night was wearing a white top, so I could make that out from a bit of a distance as I looked north toward the T. Had I been at the T looking south and someone was standing where I was (and wearing a dark gray hoodie, I would not have seen him. No doubt about it. Looking up, I could not see the woman’s husband. I think the most important thing to remember is that it was quite dark on that sidewalk.” Rest in peace Trayvon Martin. Hoodies up!

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks, it gives a completely different impression of darkness, that what is taken from the fogen saying ‘he’s gone’ from the point he looked down the sidewalk from the T. How could he decide he was ‘gone’ as in ‘left the area/got away’, vs ‘can’t see him’ because it’s dark.

      He want the dispatch to think he was gone so wouldn’t send someone in time to catch the bad guy? That could push fogen into action, the cops won’t get here in time anyway, and he could cut the bad guy off at the pass because he already decided that he was headed out the back entrance.

      The wind noise on the 911 ends coincidentally, at the time he looks down the T, doesn’t it?

    • Rachael says:

      Wow. That music was so sad and chilling and you are so right, seeing it at night, at the time it would have happened, it looks very different. If I ever had any thought that perhaps GZ shot in self-defense, I don’t now.

    • Dave says:

      Wow! That was the video that I hoped someone would make. It will probably raise all sorts of questions over the next few days.

      Trayvon must have been REALLY scared to run down that path in the dark. It would have been very hard to pick out Brandi Green’s house under these conditions especially, as is likely, if he’d never been down there after dark.

      • Dave says:

        I cannot imagine anyone but a total fool or a madman chasing a suspected criminal down that path and I cannot imagine anyone who was being chased down that path to not be in fear for his life.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I sure agree with you on that one, Dave.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Dave, as dark as it was and couple that with the rain, that fool could have ran into anything or slipped and fell which would account for some of his injuries. the rest of them IMO were self inflicted and, I say this because as dark as it was, nobody would be able to see him conking himself in the head with his as he calls it, firearm. it was dark as seven mid nights and, I doubt the fool could see his own hand in front of him. I mean it was scary dark out there.

      • Donna Flores says:

        I still trying to figure out how he gave such a good description of what Trayvon was wearing. He must at some point been parked with his lights facing Trayvon. Which means he had to move around to keep eyes on him. Now I see why Trayvon thought he lost him, he couldn’t see him. So that’s what happenm Zimmerman found him by flashing his flashlight until he found him , that’s why he had to yell Hey Hey, because Trayvon wasn’t near him, Trayvon was the one who had to turn around to answer him.

      • gblock says:

        It looked like the mailbox area was well lit. If the same was true a year ago, GZ would probably have been able to get a good look at Trayvon at the mailbox area.

    • Donna Flores says:

      David, I would like for you to also try parking near the T and leaving your headlights on. I want to see just how much George could see. In the 911 call all he says is Trayvon is running towards the back entrance, he doesn’t see him go between on the T sidewalk, he is lying about that, he mentions that later during his reenactment, I will have to go back and listen to his interviews to see what he says there.
      I don’t see how he was parked in front of the mailboxes facing the shortcut and still keep his eyes on Trayvon.

    • aussie says:

      Our eyes adjust to darkness much better than a camera can. I think the effective visibility for humans would have been around the same as that in the closer still shots near the end. And a few porches would have been lit a bit by the lights being on inside.

      But still, way way too dark to “feel” safe for anyone.

      So why would someone go down there after a dangerous suspect who (“i don’t know where that kid is at”) could be anywhere in the murk? unless he’s confident in his “equaliser” ? oops sorry THE equaliser.

      Poor Trayvon, wearing reflective shoes, to keep him safe IN TRAFFIC, a dead give-away to a killer in the dark.

    • Malisha says:

      OMG, Dave K, that was a masterpiece. Very eye-opening. VERY SIGNIFICANT. What a piece of valuable work! Thank you X 10 to the tenth power!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I seem to remember that Osterman has a penchant for wearing black. It’s not difficult to imagine people taking advantage of the dark to change their appearance. I remember newspaper articles about how thieves / muggers / purse snatchers were wearing reversible jackets to aid their getaway. My guess is that someone instructed GZ to get that Free Republic jacket because of color arrangement, since that would confuse witnesses even more than they would already be. That was probably MO, responding to one of GZ’s “what if’s” about trying to make an arrest. Of course how this info might fit is anyone’s guess. Just something to think about I guess.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      It being this dark favors a conspiracy theory and is more against any coincidences. Hardly a wonder then that GZ has two flashlights, one to illuminate and another to provide a small but highly visible “signaling beacon”. Obviously that tiny light would not provide any useable illumination. But it would excel as a signaling beacon that would hardly be noticeable to anyone who did not know exactly where to look for it’s light.

      I do believe that GZ shined his headlamps on Trayvon as he stood in the mail shed. As we can imagine, in that darkness that would be chilling. Hardly any wonder then, why Trayvon would enter using the front gate. The darkness in the cut throughs would have been prohibitively foreboding.

      See how much little things can mean? Little things can have a great influence on choices, and those choices then, preclude many alternative possibilities. I sincerely doubt Trayvon would leave the roadway to traipse through the wet grass in the dark.

      While GZ faces even bigger hurdles. First, he doesn’t get to “discover” Trayvon by any coincidence, it’s too dark and he doesn’t leave home in time to catch Trayvon walking at all.

      Since we don’t see Trayvon on the east pool hall cctv, that has to mean that TM kept to the north eastern area of the mail shed. Probably leaning against that pillar there, which would explain why GZ didn’t see him on his first pass. GZ had to be directed back to the mail shed by someone. That makes it quite likely that GZ had someone out there helping him track TM and so all GZ had to do was, be in position to see that someone give him a signal.

      Come to think of it, with it being this dark and rainy to boot, it hardly makes for an easy going and/or enjoyable stroll to the store.
      Without something more in the offing than just iced tea and skittles, I think most people would forgo this walk.

      • Dave says:

        Cabin fever?
        Falling out with Chad?
        Nicotine withdrawal?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Doesn’t have a smoking habit, no cigarettes purchased.
          Chad called him to see when he would be getting back. No fall out.
          Cabin fever? He was out all day Saturday, he could have gone out to the store while it was daylight. He probably could have gotten driven by Tracy or Brandy because of the rain. He’s occupied talking to DD all day long and there are probably plenty of snacks in the house. So, no, there’s more to this sudden trip to the store than just getting a bit antsy. Especially since he tells DD everything that’s going on, except the meeting with those guys at the store, he leaves that out on purpose, why?

          His trip back into store, just before leaving, is obviously to try to pick up a trick coin that’s been fastened to the floor. Sure, he has no need of that quarter, but the trick doesn’t depend on necessity, it depends on bugging people that there’s a coin there for the taking.

          Oh btw anyone have link to the raw footage? no time to search.

      • Malisha says:

        He wants to talk to DeeDee without “big ears” overhearing his conversation. It’s not deep. He’s 17 and she’s either 16 or a liar who doesn’t exist.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “…she’s either 16 or a liar who doesn’t exist.”

          Considering that the state has conceeded that she was 18 at the time, you should consider the possibility of a third option.

          unitron

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Gently now… Think about it… He’s already been talking to DD all day. Tracey and Brandy have left the house only an hour or so??? ago? Chad is engrossed in his video games and there’s an upstairs and Trayvon has the run of the house, his pick of rooms. Chad is hardly going to eavesdrop, he’s simply not interested.

          However, Trayvon does tell DD that he’s going to the store, but he tells her that he’s going because Chad wants skittles. He doesn’t tell her that he is the one who asked Chad if he wanted anything. Clue?
          Why is Trayvon making it appear that going to the store isn’t his idea?
          Then add, at the store Trayvon meets three guys with whom he has some interaction.

          It appears to me that he waited outside for them to arrive. but that’s just me. I think that because, after seemingly falling for an old coin-stuck-to-the-floor-trick, he’s a bit embarrassed and he tries to cover that up with a pretended stumble. Then when he quickly exits the store, smarting with embarrassment, I think he’d want to swiftly start for home and leave the scene as quickly as possible. He doesn’t do that. Instead, he appears to wait in front of the store for about 30 seconds or so, when suddenly we see a headlight as a car pulls in. Seconds later these three come into the store, and Trayvon is still waiting outside. Trayvon does not leave until two of these guys come back outside the store and possibly say something to Trayvon, and only then does he start back for home.

          If that doesn’t look like a secret meeting I don’t know what does. Because we also note that he relates none of this to DD. Who, he has already misled into thinking that this trip was caused by Chad.

          Things should be remarkably different, in my mind, if this trip was not some sort of secret meeting planned sometime before. For example, why not simply tell DD that he’s decided to go out? Why not tell her you’ve decided to go to the store and that you’re going to ask Chad if he wants anything? It’s one of those minor opportunities to impress with selflessness eh? So why not take it? Why not mention you have friends or people you’re going to meet at the store or, who you have already met? Why not mention what that bit of “business” was with them? If he thought he was going to get cigarettes or smoke, obviously he came up empty. But that would be one very good reason, why he would not want to tell anyone about the meeting at all.

          Finally, on GZ’s side of the equation, they don’t get to plan to catch someone, by keeping a constant watch at the least likely of times, unless they have a good reason to expect that they will meet with success, so then why? The answer is that they somehow planned it and instigated this trip. The planning on GZ’s side of the equation belies “coincidence” on Trayvon’s side.

          As time goes on and I keep reading, more and more artifacts of planning/conspiracy are appearing instead of vanishing or being explained away by other occurrences. The few hints I had almost a year ago, that led me to suspect that a conspiracy might be afoot, have only been added to over time, instead of things going the other way. Where we once could believe that there were two or three coincidences that had happened to make things what they are, we now have seven or eight coincidences that are needed to make things what they are. For me that’s way too many coincidences, and I suspect that as time goes on we’re going to see even more. Or, perhaps someone will breakdown and give it all up.

          Of course, none of this is needed to convict, so we may not discover much more, because the necessity that would invigorate inspection of these anomalies has already abated.

          • The prosecution has phone records with subscribers matched to their respective phones. The records for Trayvon’s phone should assist in confirming or eliminating your theory about a planned meeting since a meeting would most likely have been arranged by cell phone.

            I’m still skeptical, but open to considering the possibility.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I don’t hold out much hope of the phones giving much clue of a meeting set up because I get the impression that it might have been done face to face. My reason is, first they caught Ransberg and Burgess with a large screen phone that they say was being used to move stolen merchandise. I could easily guess that they would realize that phone usage might be traced. Of course, sometimes people slip out of expedience. So, if the phone records do show things, they’ll probably be GZ’s watch support.

            Secondly, I read that Chad said Trayvon went to the store on Thursday. Yet, I’m given to doubt that he did. Because I have to guess if he did, he would have seen that coin on the floor then, and he wouldn’t have been fooled by it on Sunday. Sunday, therefore, had to be the first time he saw it. That being so, the first time he told Chad he was going to the store, he probably was most likely just going out to meet some guys in the neighborhood and just used that excuse to cover it up. Why would he want to cover it up? My guess is for the same reasons he was concealing the true trip to the store and the fact that he met some guys there, from DD. It was probably something to do with obtaining some pot or other low level “contraband” like perhaps cigars or cigarettes or maybe even a beer.
            Remembering that Ransberg was said to be 20 years old and was likely the driver of the car we saw arrive at 711, it’s a good bet he could credibly offer to get him such things.

            Of course I’d be tickled pink to see their phone records trip them up. But I do not hold on to hope that it will be easy to certify these things. A conspiracy would be helpful to prove, but it will also be unnecessary and therefore more difficult than they have resources they’re willing to spend.

            So, why do I go on with building the theory? Well is has to do with being prepared in case they’ve slipped up and left a trail. Some piece of evidence that might otherwise go unnoticed if there had been no theory to explain what it might mean.

            For example, remember how long people kept theorizing how the “fight” / confrontation had started? Even persisting on insisting that Trayvon had thrown a punch, while the autopsy report should have left no doubt that Trayvon had never touched GZ. Until the theory that GZ had totally controlled the situation began building, the glaring autopsy evidence went almost totally ignored for the longest. I used to have to grit my teeth each time I read someone post that Trayvon had struck GZ. I didn’t charge forth and rail against those claims, instead I just kept gently insisting that such claims ran contrary to the evidence we had. Eventually that wore down the idea that GZ had been hit by Dynamite Slim.

            Of course here I’m prepared to have this theory fail to be proven. But, I can only hope that if some evidence rears it’s head, there will be a context for it to be understood and seen for what it is. After all, without a useful working theory, no evidence has any meaning at all.

      • xy11xy says:


        Come to think of it, with it being this dark and rainy to boot, it hardly makes for an easy going and/or enjoyable stroll to the store.
        Without something more in the offing than just iced tea and skittles, I think most people would forgo this walk.


        Was it raining when Tray left for the store? Most teens don’t bother to check the weather report before heading out. Tray may not have paid attention to time of day to realize it would be dark on his way back.

        That 180 that Tray took – then walking quickly back into the belly of the store – looks like he didn’t want to go outside, and didn’t want whoever was outside to see him.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Was it raining when Tray left for the store? Most teens don’t bother to check the weather report before heading out. Tray may not have paid attention to time of day to realize it would be dark on his way back.

          That 180 that Tray took – then walking quickly back into the belly of the store – looks like he didn’t want to go outside, and didn’t want whoever was outside to see him.

          At the store, Trayvon would have little choice of what to do about the weather, he could only leave and hope that he didn’t get soaked, but leave he must. It was a very light drizzle when he left the store, Tchoupi’s analysis contains weather data, which I don’t know how localized it’s adjusted for, but that Tchoupi leaves little unturned. So if his data is to be believed then it resumed raining shortly after Trayvon started back and kept steadily increasing, until he had to run the last couple of dozen yards to the mail shed.

          As far as the 180 Trayvon took “back into the belly of the store”, I had been wondering about the purpose of that for a very long time.
          When it occurred to me that lots of convenience stores have these trick coins on the counters and floors. My guess is, they’re so prevalent because they encourage clerks to pay more attention to customers. Therefore owners would put them in as a sort of passive security device. Their clerks would tend to watch to see if customers went for them, and that would be pretty amusing during the grave yard shift, eh?

          So, I went back and looked to see, what if anything, Trayvon did when he went back there. Did he go to one of the display cases? Or what? So you watch and suddenly you see him go down and reach for the floor, his hand makes this quick sweep, then he almost immediately rises up and pretends to stumble forward. Exactly what you would do if you were embarrassed to realize you had fallen for a trick. All he would have to do is touch the coin and realize that it wasn’t going to move. That would be enough to tell you that it was a trick, ala the ol’ “wallet on a string”. To be sure he didn’t need the coin, but it just has a tendency to bug people to no end to see a quarter just laying there on the floor. He had seen it when he went back for the drink, but he may have spotted the clerk sort of watching him, so he passed it up. But, on his way out of the store it hit him “Oh want the heck”, so he turned and went back to satisfy his curiosity more than anything else, and that’s what made it so much more embarrassing, to realize that the clerk saw him stooping for a quarter, to a teen? As conscious as teens are of style? His cheeks should have been literally on fire as he raced from the store.

          So that’s the psychological envelop of that situation, and it should have propelled him to quickly start for home, not stand outside the store waiting while the clerk inside chuckled. But, he stands out there grinning and bearing it for 30 long seconds until the car arrives with the three stooges inside. Now note that they come into the store with their faces hidden. Why? Are they planning to rob the store? Why would you go into a convenience store with your face hidden? Why would you take care to keep your face hidden? Dark sunglasses at night? Unfurling the hair is a performance, why? Hiding ones face from the cctv’s says you expect the video to be examined and possibly make the news. Huh? Make the news? Is that the reason the hair fetish guy unfurls his hair for the camera? Can’t resist the limelight? He would not be the only one, look at what GZ has done to himself while facing a 2nd degree murder charge to boot. These guys are clowns, fools, just what you’d expect of people who could be easily used.

          One of them foolishly uses a card to pay, leaving a trail that negates the effort of covering the face. But hey, these guys aren’t professionals at anything they do.

          The sunset tables are here: http://tinyurl.com/d2hxsyu

          Pay particular attention to when twilight begins and ends.

          My guess is “run from the back” means that Trayvon would normally walk around using RVC which has lights on it, rather than use the unlit dog walk. But with someone following by car, he has to change that plan and “run from the back”, meaning use the dog walk which is in the back of the houses, and where GZ cannot follow by car.

          So another thought comes to mind: What if Trayvon crosses to the T, then decides that it’s too dark back there? So he decides to travel straight through to RVC and head south? That would put GZ traveling right behind him. But, by the time he gets to the front door, he see GZ approaching again. Now he has two choices, either try calling Chad to open the door, or to run to the cut through and head away from the house. Calling Chad not only doesn’t guarantee he’ll get inside in time, but it would also put Chad in danger as well, so Trayvon decides to run south to the nearest cut through before GZ can get there and cut him off.

          But, by the time Trayvon gets through the cut through to the dog walk, he’s too tired and GZ catches up to him, he turns and asks “why are you following me for?” and it begins.

      • gblock says:

        What time did it start raining? What time did it start raining hard enough to be unpleasant? Also, was there still some light when he walked from the house to the store? What time is sunset in Sanford this time of year?

        • Xena says:

          @gblock. Watching the M&I Bank video, it was still light out when Trayvon went to the store and the sky was pretty clear. I don’t remember the exact time now, but on the clubhouse video, you can see the rain hitting the water in the pool area pretty hard at one point.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’m told by tchoupi’s analysis, seconded by someone else, maybe whonose who worked with tchoupi to some extent, the rain would have been heavy enough to be unpleasant at two times during that evening, 1. Just a minute or so before Trayvon could get to the mail shed, and 2. some time around when they encountered each other in the dog walk corridor.

          I’d think that there was at least twilight when Trayvon left home, I think it ended before he left the mail shed. Here’s the sundown calculator: http://tinyurl.com/d2hxsyu

          I think twilight would be most informative for our purposes, of course, at twilight distances are distorted but there’s still some light.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @Lonnie

            Are you reading my mail? :smile:

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I haven’t seen any lately. I just check my mailboxes and there’s nothing there yet.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @Lonnie

            Umm, I got that all wrong , it’s in reference to the discussion at hand, sunsets, etc. It’s like you were actually in my computer. :smile: It was suppose to be funny, but I didn’t explain it well. I’m working on something, but will shoot you an email on a couple of things soon……

            Just checking in real quick but will log off soon…….

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Got it, we’re all subject to “literary burnout” at times. Living in this virtual world of… well… Literature really, is removed from reality a bit. The longer one stays in, the further they get from the real world, which is why we need to have real people around to anchor us.

            The problem rises to it greatest levels when heavy research demands are made upon one, because that makes breaking away less rational. Time constraints and deadlines, even self imposed deadlines, have to be met and self discipline then, becomes a double edged sword so to speak. We need it in the real world and we can’t abandon it in the cyber world either.

            Anyway I’ll keep an eye out.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @Lonnie

            You are a doll. Thanks!!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Best. Video. Ever.

      Thank you!

  31. Jun says:

    Considering how Fogenhats and his gang are molesting and threatening media sources

    for 90% of this case

    they cant really claim that the jury was tainted to go against them

  32. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

    I just saw this thing, because I have been keeping track of my post over at Firedoglake.

    This CNN article, by Steve, is quite possibly the worst piece of shit writing I have ever seen. Seriously. Aside from the content, this guy, who is apparently paid to write, is dreadful.

    What I really do not understand is the new low the editors hit, on the timing of this thing. Just when I think the bottom cannot get any lower, it does.

    Insensitive, shameless pimping. Unbelievable.

    • ay2z says:

      and playing off the two impressions in the letters, of Trayvon’s age, showing how some called Trayvon a boy because they saw earlier age photos. That red shirt photo of Trayvon smiling, was indeed younger– no more than 6 months younger! August 2011 to February 26th, 2012.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Having looked around a bit at other articles’ comments, I have to wonder if O’Mara’s 6 unpaid interns have ever tried to set up shop on your blog too. This is like an island in a murderous stream.

      Unless Orlando (and Disney World) is populated exclusively with aggressive murder-lovers, which is possible, I wonder at the plethora of names of posters who spend ALL DAY shooting down other people’s observations in the comment sections unmoderated. Weird! Unless they are Z family, Taaffe, Ostermans, O’Mara employees, or certain officers of the Sanford PD, what is in it for them?

      I don’t see them here, and therefore I imagine they keep you busy off-blog. I hope not though.

      • Well, Fred has certainly been spammed/attacked/other weird stuff that has kept him busy. I have never written about the case, so I have not had this experience on my posts, thankfully.

        To be honest, Fred gave me a heads-up about the comment thread on the CNN article, so I did not read any of the comments.

      • Malisha says:

        I think when you said “certain officers of the Sanford PD,” you have hit on it. My opinion is that since the FBI investigation, which is ongoing, is more concentrated on the civil rights violations by SPD than on hate crime per se, it is the SPD that is the most vulnerable in this regard. I think they are desperate to get themselves out from under this weight. The recent unequivocal slap-down by the feds on the defense team really seals it for me.

        The media have pandered to the Fogenites as much as possible but they will not be able to protect Fogen from his fate. Their last chance to do that was, in my opinion, the day before he was charged with murder. This is being played with great skill and cunning. We don’t know the outcome but we do know that many of the parameters are no longer real variables.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @CL, I think that some of the very people who you have named, are very much a presence over at HP. it seems that every time there is a new development in this case, there is a new crop of racist and just an outrageous group of *idiots* seem to appear out of no where.

        MOM is just copying what Baez did in the Anthony case, which seemed to have worked for him, right along with a group of brain dead uncaring jurors. but, in this case this same tactic just might fail MOM and Fogen. I think it’s wrong for a defense attorney to use the internet in this kind of manner in order to try a murder case, based on what is said on blog sites.

        MOM announced from the very beginning that he would use the internet in this manner, just because it seemed to work in the Anthony trial. in that case, I don’t think people saw George Anthony as having anything to do with Caylee’s murder nor did they see him as a father who molested his own daughter. this will hopefully backfire on Fogen’s defense because, most of his online supporters are none too shy about allowing their racist attitudes come out.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Malisha, it’s so so sad to see/know, that even those whose job it is to SERVE and PROTECT can see fit to back the murderer of a child. a child I might add who was doing nothing but walking home from the store talking on the phone and minding his own business until Fogen came along. IMO some of these people (cops) are more dangerous to the public than Charles Manson would be if he were on the outside.

      • cielo62 says:

        Cercando Luce (yes, Approaching the Light is a beautiful name), there ARE people that are that sick, that hate-filled, that disgustingly STUPID and racist that MOM’s interns and the entire KKKlan are just medium sized fish in a large toxic pool. There are too many blogs and media sites for those people to cover everything. BUT they manage to rile up the native idiots who rant, rave and foam at the mouth AFTER the Zs are gone. Intelligent folks don’t bother posting more than a few thoughts on one story and they they move on. THESE bozos stay and populate the article for WEEKS, fighting for the sake of fighting anyone who disgrees with their POV. A blog is an on-going dialogue, but a story is supposed to be relevent for maybe a day or two. Some people truly have no lives except for posting filth online.

  33. ay2z says:

    The ramping up of trial by media push by the defense, had to start early, they only have ~8 weeks before the self-defense hearing (that probably wont’ happen but it keeps the pool thinking sys/self-defense all the same).

    Too bad for fogen that the new bill proposal for the SYG, didn’t already include saving others, because he was saving his wife at home from this bad guy, who he believed could easily have his address and been angry at fogen for calling the police. (some police officer suggested to him, apparently, that’s why he was attacked.)

    • Malisha says:

      Huh? If he was interested in protecting his defenseless wife — whom HE LEFT HOME GUN-LESS while HE carried HER GUN to the grocery store!!!!! — he would have immediately turned AROUND in his SUV when he spotted the “real suspicious guy” and high-tailed it home to protect his lady. He could have called the police from home while comforting Shellie and standing guard heroically by the door to kill the intruder before he managed to break into her home and commit unspeakable abominations upon her flawless white body. :evil: No, he wasn’t defending anyone; he was defending his “dream” of being Neighborhood Enforcer.

  34. ay2z says:

    And the bill suggests that others can come to the aid of someone and benefit from syg protection. That would mean witnesses to support a killer’s story, making it that much easier to fabricate a defense when none exists.

  35. Trained Observer says:

    Dark scenarios for an even darker memorial evening. Thank you.

    • ay2z says:

      The video is set to private :(

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Excellent point, LLMPapa!

      Everyone, here is Marinade Dave’s newest video…a must see:

      .

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Oh, I just saw this was posted up above. I often come to the bottom and work my way up in sections since I do not have tracking.

      • Donna Flores says:

        How in the hell did George find him, he had to have been using his flashlight. It was so dark and scary..poor Trayvon..

      • Tee says:

        That’s exactly what he did, he searched for him with that flash light. We hear the wind moving when he takes off running after Trayvon, than we hear it stop maybe 30 seconds after the operator tell GZ we not need you to do it. Next we hear him beating the flashlight against something then him saying I don’t see this kid, I don’t know where he is. If he wasn’t looking for him and returning to his car he wouldn’t be beating that flashlight and stating that he doesn’t see Trayon . If Trayvon ran from GZ and if GZ was indeed going back to his car than he would have still been on the phone when He A. Gotten back to his car or B. when He say Trayvon Asked him if he had a problem.

    • Xena says:

      Get him, LLMPapa. Gethimgethimgethim. Get George Zimmerman.

      No way did Trayvon see GZ’s holstered gun. He did however, see that gun as GZ was holding it on him. As GZ told Hannity, he was scared and nervous. Why?

      GZ: “I also thought the police were going to come and see me with the firearm and shoot me. I mean, I was terrified.”

      Didn’t GZ tell Serino that he holstered his gun after firing it? If so, why would GZ be afraid that the cops would arrive and see him with the gun? His lies are nails in his coffin.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Xena, how are you tonight?

        Yes, he is a big liar.

        Have you noticed that his followers defend him by making up all sorts of stories about that night and about Trayvon?

        I have never seen a Trayvon poster make up any story.

        • Xena says:

          @yahtc

          Xena, how are you tonight?

          Bless your heart for asking. I’m okay — read part of your article about white privilege but need to go back to finish reading. Thanks for sharing that link.

          Have you noticed that his followers defend him by making up all sorts of stories about that night and about Trayvon?

          Yes, because the truth hurts GZ. As discovery was released and Zidiots could no longer get away with lies, they started on the thugification of Trayvon to deflect from evidence. That’s their way and I seldom read anything written by them because I lack patience for ignorance.

          I have never seen a Trayvon poster make up any story.

          When the truth is on your side, there’s no need to make up stories. We don’t make up stories about GZ either. While we contemplate the why and how, we do say it’s speculation. We would like to know the why and how, but in the end we understand that the court is only interested in from about 7:09 p.m. on 2/26/12 and what GZ said thereafter, along with what forensic and physical evidence provides.

      • Dave says:

        Because cops carry flashlights (and guns)?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Speaking of my article, one of the people commenting under it gave me a link to further aid in my understanding of white privilege. The speaker presents his points in an outstanding manner.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, his multitudes of lies are certainly the many nails in his coffin and, he has been nailing them in one by one every since day one of this murder. I don’t see how any self respecting Florida resident who will have the chance to sit on that jury, can vote for anything but a guilty verdict after hearing all of the evidence against the Fogen.

        Some of his followers are of the mindset that he will have an ALL white jury. they can wish this all they want because, it’s not going to happen. this is the year 2013 and not 1955, the year the two brothers got away with murdering Emmett Till. it’s very heartbreaking to me, to see how some in this country want to see this creep get away with killing an innocent child. of course we all know that if their child was murdered by this low life, they would be singing a different tune. JFTBM in 2013

        • Xena says:

          @ladystclaire

          Some of his followers are of the mindset that he will have an ALL white jury. they can wish this all they want because, it’s not going to happen.

          HA! Junior might want to change his racist diatribes from Afro-Peruvian to White.

          For the racially prejudicial minded, in that courtroom before the jury will be a White judge, White prosecutors, White defense team, and an Afro-Peruvian defendant.

          There’s no problem if GZ’s jury is all White. What the ZIdiots do not realize is that not all Whites are like them. That in fact, Zidiots are a very, very small part of America. There are White bigots who don’t support GZ because GZ is not all White, and White Supremacists who do support GZ do so in rebellion to the power by the people to bring attention to the SPD’s injustice.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Xena,
        I also want to add that your points were right on target.

        • Xena says:

          @yahtc. Thank you. In the Dooley case, there was no controversy to whether David James went for Dooley’s gun. Although Dooley testified that had James gotten the gun, he would have killed him, the jury decided that James had the right to protect himself and try to take the gun from Dooley.

          James was a trained military man. Trayvon had no training in guns.

          Now, GZ has a real problem with his story about Trayvon saying that GZ was going to die, because that is not captured on the 911 call. What is captured on that call is GZ cursing at Trayvon while Trayvon screams out in pain, fear, and for help.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Xena, The person who linked me to this video said to start at about the 15 minute mark.

        • Xena says:

          @yahtc. Thanks. I’m very familiar with Tim Wise — have been reading his writings, visiting his web site, and listening to his seminars since about 2008. Jane Elliot is another person who has been teaching on white privilege since the 1960’s.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i love tim wise – few people are able to drive that point home as well as he is. my husband and i watch his videos for sheer enjoyment.

      • aussie says:

        Xena

        “..Didn’t GZ tell Serino that he holstered his gun after firing it? If so, why would GZ be afraid that the cops would arrive and see him with the gun? ..”

        This is from the Hannity interview. The Hannity interview where he confessed to murder (but still doesn’t know it).

        This fear was not AFTER the shooting. This was given as the REASON for the shooting.

        “I was running out of time. I feared the police would see me………”

        On the Hannity version, he shot Trayvon so the police (who he knew were on the way) would not come around the corner, see him holding a gun on Trayvon, and SHOOT HIM by mistake.

        In other words he WAS HOLDING Trayvon at GUNPOINT.

        Because, if he squiggled and squirmed and got the gun from the under-his-backside holster and shot right away in self-defence, that could not have been caused by fear that the police would see the gun.

        So to the police he was saying
        1) he was in fear for his life
        2) he managed to get the gun out and shoot Trayvon, in one fluid movement (interrupted only by aiming around his other hand)

        On Hannity he was saying
        1) he had the gun out (potentially visible to any arriving police)
        2) he was afraid they might shoot HIM if they saw it
        3) he was running out of time because said police were due to show up any second now, especially after idiot neighbour John was going to give them a hurry-up call, too
        4) THEN he shot Trayvon (presumably so he could put the gun down and thus eliminate his danger from the police)

        So it was a 2-steps-removed self-defence. He shot person A to make himself a non-target for Person B.

        Makes sense.

        Sure it does…..

        You don’t want the cops shooting you for holding a gun on someone

        PUT THE DAMNED THING DOWN, ever think of that George?

        • Xena says:

          @aussie.

          This fear was not AFTER the shooting. This was given as the REASON for the shooting.

          On Hannity he was saying
          1) he had the gun out (potentially visible to any arriving police)
          2) he was afraid they might shoot HIM if they saw it
          3) he was running out of time because said police were due to show up any second now, especially after idiot neighbour John was going to give them a hurry-up call, too
          4) THEN he shot Trayvon (presumably so he could put the gun down and thus eliminate his danger from the police)

          BINGO to all you said. This is also why he could answer that question during the voice stress test about being in fear for his life without showing any stress. The technician didn’t know enough to ask WHY GZ feared for his life.

          Like BDLR said in court, that Hannity interview is a gold mine.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        You two are right!
        Remember when those around Rep. Giffords in AZ were able to knock the gun from the shooters hand….and one of the helpers then picked it up to be sure the shooter would not get it again?

        At that moment, a shopper with a gun came to “rescue” them, and those, around the good guy who had picked up the shooter’s gun, told him to put down the gun so that the shopper coming to the rescue would not shoot the good guy by mistaking him for the shooter.

      • towerflower says:

        With Fogen running out of time……..I wonder if his cell phone was ringing, remember he wanted the cops to call him when they got there. If his cell phone was ringing, he knew he was waiting on a call from the cops when they entered the complex. Wish we knew his call records.

    • Malisha says:

      Exactly! Fogen was doing that thing I find so insulting when someone lies to me while giving me one of those “just tell her anything” stories: he was just saying what came into his mind because he had already been assured that he was not going to be charged with a crime for killing “the suspect.” He didn’t care if it was implausible; he didn’t wait for an attorney because he had already been assured he was not in trouble and would not need one; he was just giving his blah blah blah as a formality because he KNEW (after his little ride in the squad car with Tim Smith) that his little peccadillo was not going to be held against him.

      Corrupt or lazy government officials will do this to you when you point out that they should be following a certain procedure that they have chosen to skip. They’ll “tell you anything” and they do so specifically because they already know that if you kick up a fuss and complain, they simply say what they’re instructed to say when someone fusses. They do not care, therefore, if they give you a story that is idiotic, unlawful, blatantly wrong, ridiculous, or outright provably false. Whenever people are SURE that they will not be taken to task for wrongdoing, they cover it with any nonsensical claptrap they make up on the spot, and that’s what Fogen was doing. His jacket rode up? How the Hell would HE know that? When you’re in a desperate fight for your life on your back on the concrete having the life beaten out of you, bloody and in pain and fear, you do not NOTICE your clothing! “My jacket rode up” and “I felt like he saw my gun” are two pieces (out of about 100) that make his whole story so ludicrous as to be an ipso facto condemnation of him. Also, the idea that Trayvon Martin would change his focus from the strangling of poor Fogen’s mouth and nose to check out his HIP simply because his JACKET rode up — so a savage killer is distracted by a wardrobe fail? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Good job telling it like it is, Malisha!

      • Jun says:

        Pretty much he took away all that kid’s rights and wants to continue to do so by finding him guilty before being proven innocent

      • Trina Cosbie says:

        Good Point Malisha!!! Who in the hell would remember their jacket coming up in the fight for your life…..all of his clothing should be misaligned or disheveled in the fight for his survival as he tell it, but the problem is Fogen was looking pretty neat for supposedly getting beat……

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      You’ve nailed it again. But this time there’s no escape, GZ could have been clobbered with a can of iced tea in that darkness and left unconscious on the sidewalk. Trayvon would not have even had to ask why he was being followed. But, only if all this were true. It wasn’t , GZ was never attacked at all, he just grabbed, held and shot the kid, then made up a bunch of hogwash to spew at everyone.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      LLMPapa & Dave Marinade are the best!

  36. Jun says:

    If you look at Omara’s media presentations, he’s basically calling you a sucker and an idiot, by the way he does things, because he is presenting to people as if they are stupid

    a) I do not get how he is going to dissect the NEN to fit Fogenhats’ story. He disparaged the victim, the teenager, called him a fucking punk/coon, and obviously by the tape you can tell he was the aggressor, he thought less of the victim, he did not feel the victim was a strong individual hence the use of punk and coon. In fact, he called the kid a fucking punk/coon, while chasing him. You hear him open his car door, you hear running noises, and you hear him beforehand say “shit, he’s running” as if disappointed that the person he was stalking was trying to run away from him and he wanted to get the kid

    b) The only evidence that Trayvon the victim, or as he calls it “the bad guy” is strictly from Fogenhats’ mouth. Fogenhats is the only person claiming Trayvon was up to no good, a fucking punk/coon, suspicious, and attacked him first after doing odd running in his claims, which are in direct contradiction to the NEN call

    c) Fogenhats has a proven history of lying and the only evidence that it was Trayvon’s fault is Fogenhats’ own words, which can not be submitted by his lawyer or anyone else.

    d) Fogenhats’ “injuries” or lack of injuries, could have come from a numerous amount of actions, not just Fogenhats’ allegations that Trayvon caused them. Fogenhats could have caused them himself to bolster a self defense claim. Fogenhats also could have chased after the kid with a gun, went at the kid with a gun, and the “injuries” or lack of injuries, could be from the kid trying to fight for his life because there was a threat of a gunshot coming forth and a creepy stranger going after him, therefore, the cause of the injuries are Fogenhats’ fault. We also have to take into account the witnesses and forensic evidence, the NEN tape, and Fogenhats’ habit of calling police on black males for no reason whatsoever.

    e) Fogenhats has motive to lie and so does Junior and the rest of their gang

    f) If we are going to do the SYG hearing or the trial without Fogenhats testifying and the jury and judge has to base it on admissible evidence, then it is going to show Fogenhats went after this kid, caught the kid, attacked and threatened the kid’s life, and the killed the kid and molested the dying kid’s body.

    g) If Fogenhats submits his testimony or “evidence” he has to agree to cross examination and will be proven the liar

    It will all come out at trial

    Omara is just trying to rile up racists

    As you know there are people already threatening to burn down Florida because of Fogenhats

    • aussie says:

      Ah yeah, I’ve seen the plans for burning Florida. There’s more than one plan. Here’s a summary:

      Both plans involve rioting chiefly by AA people, although a few minorities may side with them in some places. Whites will be the targetted victims.

      Plan A is if GZ is not convicted. This consists of riots all over the whole country, not just Florida. But Florida would get the blame for starting it by not convicting him. To escape that blame is the main (if not sole) reason Florida is prosecuting/persecuting GZ in the first place. Therefore the charges are false and purely political.

      Plan B is if GZ does get convicted. That would free up all thugs statewide, but possibly nationwide, to riot for the fun of it (as is apparently their habit), confident that no honest decent American would be game to try stopping them, for fear of being imprisoned for it as poor railroaded GZ was.

      These plans are all being cooked up in secret by gangs of AA’s, and the honest and lily-white predictors of the riots are somehow privy to these secret preparations, and the AAs apparently are still dumb enough to let them be party to/overhear the planning, even though there’s clearly been a bad security leak.

      I need a break, guys, I think I caught something over at the Nuthouse…..

      • Jun says:

        Actually it is racists who want to burn down Florida if Fogenhats gets convicted

      • Jun says:

        As in it is not a theory by the Nuthouse but actually a few that have made threats of this nature on facebook and we have seen the white supremacists who already went to Florida

        There’s actually Fogenhats’ gang members threatening to burn down Florida

      • ladystclaire says:

        Sounds to me like the lily whites are the ones doing all of this planning of plan A and B and are placing the blame on AA. there are no blacks to my knowledge even thinking about doing such. it’s a damn shame that Fogen has brought out the worst of some in this country all because he lied about his murdering an innocent AA child. I have only read about racist whites, making threats such as this. IMO, the DOJ needs to be on to this and monitoring these racist sites as well.

    • Malisha says:

      Well, burning down Florida might be long overdue.

      • Jun says:

        Florida sure is not attracting tourists anymore

      • pat deadder says:

        Malisha you are so funny.Just want to say I will never go to Florida now as planned.Also I don’t give a shit what race either one of them are fogen murdered a barlely 17 year old kid.Does motive have to be part of the trial such as the race of the victim.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Motive isn’t needed in this case because GZ admits he fired the shot. He claims that his state of mind was that he felt sure that he was going to be killed if he did not respond with lethal force.

          The law says that [in paraphrase]: “If reasonable people agree that the force being responded to was likely to be lethal, in their judgement, then GZ should be acquitted.”

          The result of GZ’s claims requires the jury to believe that: An unarmed, untrained teenager, somehow attacked GZ without obtaining any evidence of any such attack on his own hands, AND, he somehow was administering a barehanded attack that a reasonable person would expect to be almost instantly deadly.

          That’s an extremely high hurdle to climb. That a teen with barely enough muscle mass to be able to throw an effective punch, could overcome a 204 lb angry and violence prone adult, with enough muscle mass to control adults, as evidenced by his employment records.

          These are the obstacles to acquittal that MOM fears and that should have GZ gnawing at his shoes, if he’s a “comfort eater”.

    • pat deadder says:

      BDLR said in one of the hearings he is not prosecuting this as a racial crime.So all the crap about what race fogen is and Omara focusing on race is just a distraction so the racists keep giving money.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Great points Jun, but in respect of GZ´s injuries, as forensics gave nothing on Trayvon my long-held view that GZ´s facial and head scratches were caused by running into a tree on RVC when checking if his “suspect” was heading for the back gate has been further strengthened by Dave´s new video. In the dark GZ could never have seen the trees which from a previous video by Dave have crowns around head height. Tzar made a great visual demo of this a few weeks back showing how all his facial scratches seem to go in the same direction (i.e. right to left) exactly as if a branch with its little branches caught you as you ran or walked by or into it. Again in view of the forensics failing to find any of his DNA on Trayvon my guess he ran into a thicker branch or a trunk!

  37. Donna Flores says:

    Does anyone think it’s possible that Trayvon didn’t know the address to Brandi Green’s apartment. He didn’t live there but knew how to get there. I believe that’s what Zimmerman was asking Trayvon, what the apartment number was and Trayvon was answering with I don’t know, doesn’t mean he didn’t belong there but he was a guest.

    • Rachael says:

      It makes sense to me tha being a guest, he knew how to get there but did not know the address so yes, makes sense. A whole lot more sense than GZ not knowing street name of complex where he lived and “patroled”

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        It came to me after viewing Marinade Dave’s video. Because of the poor lighting in that rear corridor, it popped in to my head: “He have probably walked from the front”, meaning out the front door, north on RVC to the front gate and out to the store. Because there was better light.

        If that’s true, then it stands to reason that “run from the back” means he intended to use the dog walk, to get to the house from the back. Which also makes incredibly good sense, since visibility in that area would be very poor, Trayvon should have been almost impossible to catch.

        Except, like I was trying to explain to some one on another thread. The two ideas at work here are “conspiracy” vs “coincidence”, and the point that I’m making is: If the most critical elements of the story are coincidental, then the minor elements must also be either coincidental or otherwise expected. Because one would not plan minor events and then leave the major necessities to chance. On the other hand, if the most critical elements of the story are planned, then that planning is based on either the creation or manipulation of the minor elements as needed, if they are not already expected results.

        The reason good conspiracies are hard to detect is because they take advantage of routines and routinely expected activities. Thus, most of what the victim does, they would have done anyway, even if there were no conspiracy afoot.

        But, conspiratorial operations come as a set. That set is detectable by observing that a major element or two, of the saga, is somehow a contrivance, or an expected event(s) being taken advantage of by a plan.

        For example, a person has been shot, how do they know it was a sniper and not just a coincidence? The bullet is long range the shot is high powered. Long range, high powered weapons require substantial training to use. So, these elements of planning exclude coincidence, while routinely expected activities brings the target to site. You have to first define all the elements of a story, then properly label them as either “expected”, “routine”, “planned” or “coincidental”. Once this is done, then you can see the hand of conspiracy emerge from the darkness as some coincidences are elements too critical and too conveniently advantaged.

        Coincidences do not happen in chains that advantage anyone’s planning. Nor does one make plans that require optimal coincidences to occur to make the plan successful. There is enough evidence here to reveal that this is the result of a conspiracy involving two or more people (as would have to be the case axiomatically), working together to achieve some result. What we cannot say is that everyone operating within this conspiracy knew of or expected the actual result. They still may have believed that they were working towards a non-lethal conclusion/goal, that was co-opted at the last moment.

        • Xena says:

          @Lonnie Starr

          If that’s true, then it stands to reason that “run from the back” means he intended to use the dog walk, to get to the house from the back.

          That is exactly what I think. After I saw Dave’s first walk-through video, and remembered DeeDee’s statement that Trayvon was going to “run from the back,” it was understandable that Trayvon was going to run from the back of the house, to the front of the house.

          The only problem with that is, the T comes out to a road on the south. The creepy guy had followed Trayvon in a vehicle. Trayvon was by his dad’s house, but Trayvon had to wait and be watchful making sure that the vehicle didn’t appear on that road as he turned the corner to enter the front of the house. As well, if the vehicle was on that road waiting, and he didn’t see it and ran to the front of the house, he would call attention to himself.

          The last thing Trayvon would have wanted was to walk around that corner to the front of the house with that creepy guy in a truck being able to pull up into Brandy Green’s driveway.

          About there being more than GZ involved, I have considered that there was a vehicle parked at the opening of the T, which is why Trayvon was cautious, waiting before turning the corner.

          As Racer often says, GZ’s phone records are very revealing for who he called after ending his NEN call. Let the immunity hearing and/or trial begin.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “For example, a person has been shot, how do they know it was a sniper and not just a coincidence? The bullet is long range the shot is high powered. Long range, high powered weapons require substantial training to use.”

          To use accurately and responsibly, yes.

          But any idiot who gets their hands on one that’s loaded can make it go “bang” and send a bullet who knows where just by pulling the trigger, and with the number of idiots with guns out there I’m not even sure if sniper is the most logical explanation, let alone the only one.

          Here in the states, anyway. If you were speaking strictly of a situation involving our troops overseas, then I have mis-read you.

          Although they do expect us to believe that what happened to Pat Tillman falls into the “just a co-incidence” category.

          unitron

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      No way was gz asking such a question. He would have mentioned that excuse in his statements if that had been the case.

      gz missed two opportunities to identify himself to Trayvon.

      • Donna Flores says:

        I’m not sure what Zimmermanwould be asking him that Trayvon would reply to I don’t know, I thought someone heard on the 911 call that Trayvon was saying I don’t know…

      • Rachael says:

        I think she might be talking about when you can hear the screams in the background of the 911 call you can hear Trayvon saying “I don’t know.” So she was thinking maybe he was asking Trayvon what number he lived in or his address and Trayvon didn’t know. He just knew how to get there but since he was a guest and didn’t live there, no reason to know the address. Although he could have been asking him about who was burglarizing places. But like I said, asking him his address or where he lived makes more sense for Trayvon to not know than it does for GZ to not know a street name in an area he lived and patrolled. And no, he certainly would not mention that he was holding a kid at gunpoint asking him where he lived. And if he didn’t identify himself then, and even if he did, how scary would that be in the dark with a gun on your chest?

        • xy11xy says:

          @Rachael

          I don’t know if Trayvon even had a solid grasp on how to get home from every possible direction. That is, would he know how to get to Brandi’s entering through the north gate rather than the east one?(east, I think)

          Because Brandi’s house was by the east gate, I imagine that’s the gate family and friends used to enter and exit. I imagine that on the rare occasions Trayvon visited, he didn’t go much into the west section of the complex. It’s possible that on his previous walk to the convenience store, he used the east gate to exit, and walked all the way round to get to the store. It’s likely that he returned home the same way.

          His father seemed to think he used the east gate to enter in a youtube vid I saw of him walking through the complex.

          It does makes sense that Brandi’s house address would not have imprinted on Tray – he hardly ever visited, and had no cause to mail letters there!

          The family may not have even entered through the front door, habitually. Many parents don’t like kids tracking dirt through the living room.

          As for the house’s spatial location…the Retreat is like mirror images – if you slice it in two along the dogwalk (north/south), and also if you cut it west to east. I can see Trayvon getting confused about where he was…which end he was at, and the house’s location in relation to which gate he’d entered from.

          It was VERY, VERY dark that night!

          Also, George had a habit of interrogating people!

          A resident tells the FBI of a story told to her by George(no doubt) where George has police search the garage of a black resident he claims has stolen his bike.

          The story doesn’t add up.

          What officer would demand to search someone’s garage? As she tells the story, George didn’t have a serial no., so the cops couldn’t identify the bike…. WHAT?!

          This resident says this is proof that George is not Racist, because he COULD have gotten the resident into real trouble.

          …Do you see what we’re dealing with here? These types of attitudes created an environment where any Trayvon could be killed…

        • Xena says:

          @Rachael

          I think she might be talking about when you can hear the screams in the background of the 911 call you can hear Trayvon saying “I don’t know.”

          There’s another way of understanding that. It could be “I don’t. Noooo.” Such as, I don’t have anything in my waistband and then seeing GZ’s gun held on him, crying out “noooo.”

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        “No way was gz asking such a question. He would have mentioned that excuse in his statements if that had been the case.”

        Sorry YAHTC, but I must be reading something you said wrong. Why in the world would GZ ever admit to questioning Trayvon at anytime? I don’t see a single circumstance here where that would be anything but incriminating.

  38. Trained Observer says:

    Fogen’s dramatic weight gain — deliberate or not — must be creating monitoring device difficulty, what with likelihood of swollen ankles. Are these devices easily adjustable, and do they come in XXX-large?

    Also wonder if Fogen and the missus bought health insurance with any of the OPM defense funding. If not, a hospital emergency run for a simple gastro-related ailment could end up costing a few thousand bucks, between the ambulance ride and routine testing/treatment.

    MOM already is beginning to publicly moan about Fogen’s stress and depression.

    Don’t know whether Judge Nelson has legal standing to do so, but if MOM keeps verbally heading down the physical and mental illness trail in open court, I’d like to see her revoke Fogen’s bail on grounds that he’s a danger to himself … if not others.

    Once jailed, heart healthy meals could be delivered to the gobbler’s cell, and a cap could be put on his canteen purchases. Options for his pulling any other stunts also would be curbed, and the state would cover his medical needs.

    I don’t want to see this turkey getting a continuence over health issues … especially those of his own making .

    • Rachael says:

      @Trained Observer: ” If not, a hospital emergency run for a simple gastro-related ailment could end up costing a few thousand bucks, between the ambulance ride and routine testing/treatment.”

      Give me an effn break. He wouldn’t even go to the hospital after a “brutal life-threatening assault.”

      I think before she could revoke his bail, she could request/require/demand or something a mental health exam though.

  39. ay2z says:

    “What appeared to have been a prima facie case became blurry when Sanford police released Zimmerman without charge — accepting his assertion of self-defense under Florida’s “Stand your ground” law. ”

    (from article at ‘the Root
    By: Edward Wyckoff Williams | Posted: February 27, 2013 )

    Ironic, that the police officers decided this was SYG, therefore no charges, and probably none ever, unless and until there was an outcry of citizens, and we have since learned (many months ago and reiterated lately by the defense) that the SYG ‘may’ not even apply anyway, and they may not use that law in their defense

    • onlyiamunitron says:

      “What appeared to have been a prima facie case became blurry when Sanford police released Zimmerman without charge — accepting his assertion of self-defense under Florida’s “Stand your ground” law. ”

      (from article at ‘the Root
      By: Edward Wyckoff Williams | Posted: February 27, 2013 )

      Ironic, that the police officers decided this was SYG, therefore no charges, and probably none ever, unless and until there was an outcry of citizens, and we have since learned (many months ago and reiterated lately by the defense) that the SYG ‘may’ not even apply anyway, and they may not use that law in their defense

      Only Zimmerman didn’t say anything about SYG, he just said “self-defense”, and not being able to immediately dis-prove that, the police, constrained by the immunity provision of Florida’s Justifiable Use of Force law, did not immediately arrest him.

      That law contains a separate “stand your ground” provision, so everybody keeps mis-calling it the Stand Your Ground law.

      I can’t remember if O’Mara might have said anything about possibly invoking SYG back when he was first coming on board and not yet fully conversant with all the details of the case, but for some time now he has been pointing out that it is Zimmerman’s contention that he was in a position where he could not retreat, therefore anything having to do with whether or not he had a duty to retreat does not apply, and that what he wants a hearing on is the immunity provision of the Justifiable Use of Force law, not the SYG provision.

      Williams didn’t do his homework.

      unitron

  40. lurker says:

    Excellent post.

    We are divided in this country in our very understanding of racism, however, and it is this division that seems to allow the current situation. There is among some that racism is an individually expressed act of hatred against an individual or group of another race. This leads to a belief that in the absence of certain historically recognized words, or perhaps actions, there is no racism. And the most damaging corollary to this belief is that blacks are then fully capable of an equal and opposite version of racism against whites. O’Mara is playing heavily on this corollary when he speaks of racism on both sides.

    The reality, however, is that racism as an institution is and always has been about the pooling of power–political, economic, legal–based on race. While most legal vestiges of racism have been dealt with (notwithstanding yesterday’s attack on the Equal Voting Rights Act), political and economic power remain large pooled. And blacks suffer from not a tendancy to regard whites as blacks have historically been regarded, but from a need to shake off their own internalized self-images as a result of that racism.

    George Zimmerman did not need to join the Klan in order to act in accordance with racist beliefs that blacks are innately criminal and that a young black man in a hoody must be up to no good. He did not need to say (although he did–further down in the call, past the point where he was asked was Trayvon black, white or Hispanic) that Trayvon was black, or that the f-ing punks who always get away are also, in his mind, always black.

    But his belief that a young black man, after being followed, and in fact running from an unknown white-appearing adult man in a vehicle, would hide in the bushes in order to attack him and attempt to kill him with his bare hands, speaks to deeply internalized racist beliefs about who black people are, what they are like and why they are to be distrusted.

    He really truly believed that telling people he was jumped by the black guy would be enough to justify the shooting. Because in his mind, that’s what black guys do.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      “Because in his mind, that’s what [I think the people I'm telling this story to will believe] black guys do.”

    • Malisha says:

      And those people who DO believe Fogen’s idiotic story about the big bad savage vicious irrationally violent Trayvon Martin who had to be “put down” are those people who are predisposed to believe that’s what Black guys do. Period. But for that predisposition, there would be no reason on earth to believe even a grain of Fogen’s ludicrous story.

      • Xena says:

        @Malisha

        And those people who DO believe Fogen’s idiotic story about the big bad savage vicious irrationally violent Trayvon Martin who had to be “put down” are those people who are predisposed to believe that’s what Black guys do.

        No. They know better. That’s what they want others to believe, including Blacks about themselves. It’s part of the oppression of White Supremacist beliefs; that no matter how intelligent, successful or financially lucrative, that Blacks are inferior. They paint a prejudicial picture that all Blacks are unintelligent, lazy,violent, uncivilized, in effort to impress that inferiority worldwide.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        X2 on that Malisha. Well said.

    • type1juve says:

      @lurker. excellent post!

  41. Malisha says:

    I believe he was asking — demanding — to know who had burglarized houses and where the burglars had gone. Remember, he still fancied himself having apprehended “the suspect”!

  42. type1juve says:

    @Xena. Yes indeed, they do know better. Thanks for keeping it real!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 1,049 other followers

%d bloggers like this: