Welcome to the open thread.
We have three posts today:
1. The Defendant’s Statements will be Admissible by the Prosecution in the Trayvon Martin Murder Case;
2. Featuring: LLMPapa Delivers a Knockout Punch; and
3. Call for DNA Testing for Death Row Inmate Larry Swearingen.
Use this open thread for comment and discussion regarding other topics.
A few posts I’ve read here mention fogen was covered with animal blood. Where can I find that info?
I’m asking because I believe I hear a dog growling on fogen’s NEN call right after he tells the dispatcher his name.
You can’t find that info because it doesn’t exist.
Whatever info dump has the DNA stats shows traces of non-human blood in one spot on his jacket. It wasn’t all over him.
Exactly.
Stain Z on his jacket came back as Non-Human DNA. Maybe I’m being too simpleminded but, it WAS a dog walk. Couldn’t that be the answer?
I’ve read in some cities that they are DNA testing dog poop to ascertain which owners aren’t picking up after their dogs.
OMG, they refuse DNA testing to convicts on death row who will finance their own forensic tests to clear them and prove their innocence of capital crimes, and at the same time they’re DNA-testing dog poop to hand out tickets to litterers?
Scotty, BEAM ME UP RIGHT NOW!!!! RIGHT DAMN NOW, SCOTTY!!!
“Stain Z on his jacket came back as Non-Human DNA. Maybe I’m being too simpleminded but, it WAS a dog walk. Couldn’t that be the answer?” Not sure what non-human DNA has to do with anything as there was no non-human involved in this murder (unless he is going to say something came down from outer space). He also owns a dog, so non-human DNA would not be unexpected.
As for what Malisha says, I agree. What is this world coming to?
It was blood though. That is all about I know. It is DNA from blood but not human dna, so the only other option is animal. I wonder if his face was using animal blood as well. They can tell what animal it was.
I will need to double check but I heard there was also animal blood on his gun.
He wasn’t “covered” in animal blood, but some animal blood was found in one stain tested on his clothing. Adding that to the matter of his injuries and the blood spatter appearing so strangely configured, with Xena even suggesting that the blood on his head, resulting in those rivulets, seems poured.
Thus, we can speculate that perhaps all this blood wasn’t his blood at all, but really just animal blood obtained from somewhere.
@Lonnie Star
I picture applied like one would use shampoo or a hair product, then run their fingers down their head — across the top, then running fingers through. There are actually 5 rivulets — one for each finger and a thumb. Also, I don’t believe it was animal blood but Trayvon’s blood that GZ used. He was all too anxious to go to the washroom to clean-up after the EMT’s had already cleaned him up.
In my opinion, had I wanted to appear like a person beaten within one inch of my life, I would have wanted everything giving that appearance while in the police station, rather than washing my hands squeaky clean before the police took pictures.
Hopefully, the EMT’s retained the wipes they used and it can be tested.
I don’t think so, remember the police were trying their level best to avoid collecting any evidence they could possibly avoid. If they had those wipes my guess is we’d have yet another surprise.
@Lonnie Starr
Then the State should probably get an expert witness to testify of the possibility of a round wound resulting in blood running across, because those boo-boo’s are not across like slices.
Xena….
Ya know there are so many unanswered questions that surround the murder, that I don’t even believe we’ll know the truth to…..even with a fogen conviction.
How did Trayvon end up laying straight out on his belly, if he was shot while mounting fogen?
The position of the bullet hole in relation to the clothing and the entrance wound?
ETC.
Naw…. I don’t think we’ll have a lot of these answered even with a conviction.
@Pat. The State already provided in discovery disclosure of a ballistic’s expert. They will no doubt have an expert re-create the events according to GZ’s statements and re-enactments.
When Corey held the press conference announcing 2nd degree murder charges, she said that the evidence is present and only required connecting the dot. Based on the dots we have connected, she is telling the truth.
I’ll be willing to bet the SP already has their blood spatter expert locked and loaded.
Did they also find animal blood on his gun as well?
I believe they found blood too degraded to type.
I wonder why the Ostermans stopped plugging their book?
From Amazon;
Defending our Friend; the Most Hated Man in America [Paperback]
Mark & Sondra Osterman (Author)
1.7 out of 5 stars
Price: $14.99 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25.
In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.
17 new from $9.40 8 used from $9.66
I read that (according to Osterman in his book) that Osterman and gz’s father were always 40 feet out of camera range during the video reenactment at the crime scene.
Osterman can be seen standing at the truck at the cut-through. Just like he is seen on the police station video when GZ went for the voice stress test.
Rachael, Dr. Phil announced copies were to be given to each audience member. After hear the Ostermans and their take on the shooting, several folks in the audience reportedly declined the offer of a freebie book … some out of disgust over this pair … others out of respect for Trayvon … or both.
Thanks trained observer. I’m glad to hear of those who refused.
Xena, if that is the case and fogen’s father and Osterman were present at the reenactment, then fogen is REALLY out of control! With this information, it is quite obvious no one can corral forgen!
I can’t imagine his father being a magistrate, his friend a cop and advising fogen to speak to anyone without an attorney present. Wow!
@SpecialladyT
It’s called confidence in ability to deceive, misrepresent, and manipulate. Having an attorney present would be another party to see through GZ’s lies and they wouldn’t want that attorney negotiating with LE on a plea bargain.
Somewhere on the internet, perhaps at the Orlando Sentinel or Miami paprer, perhaps on Huffpo, there is a still photo of Z Sr. with Fogen and a cop at the reenactment. Plus, Sr. has also stated that he attended the reenactment. Having a family member or friend or both attend one would be expected.
Oh, PS. If you recall, many of the Treestumpers felt the Ostermans betrayed Fogen in the book – remember when the Treestump ran excerpts? Neither side in this dispute likes the book very much.
HAHAHA Osterman probably had a print run of 50; 25 were for him personally (to autograph and give to PR people to promote his book and to hand out to reviewers, journalists etc.) and 25 for sale on Amazon. 17 are still there; 8 sold and now are available used to be re-sold. Four of those were probably ordered by O’Mara’s team and the other four by BDLR’s team and now they have all they need and want to dump their copies and recoup their losses! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I can’t remember if a copy was given to the audience of Dr. Phil.
The audience probably left them underneath their seats. From the look on their faces, they couldn’t believe that Sondra and Mark were creatures of this planet.
I have a terrible secret………I bought the book, not to support but to see what other contradictions are in there. I have it highlighted when something I can reference later comes up. One of the biggest contradictions is his version, as told by Osternman, is that TM did have the gun and that he was able to wrestle it away from him. He goes into great detail about that night’s events even describing how TM is sitting on fogen. Which I still don’t understand how TM could’ve have ever seen the gun based on this story.
towerflower, don’t you think it is interesting that Osterman encouraged gz to continue talk, talk, talking and did not suggest that gz get an attorney?
What was Osterman up to with that??
@yahtc. There’s a line of thought with some people that if a person being questioned asks for an attorney, it means they don’t want to be questioned because they are guilty.
People who have deceived, manipulated, and lied their way to get what they want think they can convince anyone to believe them.
Like GZ, Jodi Arias ran off at the mouth too.
I see. Well, the great Spirit of Justice saw to it that gz incriminated himself!
Youall, you observe:
Here’s my guess: Osterman already had Billy Lee’s assurance there would be no charges drawn, so he encouraged Fogen to talk talk talk because the cops were supposed to see from all Fogen said that (a) Fogen could really be an asset to the police force; and (b) the RTL neighborhood was really really dangerous and Fogen needed to carry a loaded gun on patrols.
They had no IDEA any of this crap would come back to haunt them and specifically Fogen thought that all that “Miranda warnings” and “handcuffs” stuff was to make it all look official. Furthermore, Fogen and Osterman are both very immature and they have a concrete thinking problem and many executive function problems. So they would naturally fail to see any downside in blabbing uncontrollably to their buddies, the police, about their extraordinary hero escapades. Just like poor dumb Osterman couldn’t see any downside to saying, on Dr. Phil, that Fogen had so many African American friends he could have organized his own protest march. Idiot thinking, no ability to “cast forward” their blah blah blah to see where it could logically lead, etc. Their minds are concrete and opaque. Like the sidewalk that Fogen’s head was never slammed on.
I like your analysis, Malisha.
Pretend Air Marshall writing a book purporting lies from his best friend, Pretend Detective Callahan
1.7 stars is pretty low. If it were a paperback, it would be on the clearance bench with a 50 cent sticker on it.
NFS huh?
Hey Cielo!!! Here we are dancing around the drums! It’s a line dance dedicated to Trayvon Martin.
What a great event to support Trayvon!
@yahtc. A Zidiot made a comment about us dancing around drums. It intended the comment to be insulting. This video just proves that people do dance to honor and support justice for Trayvon — nothing to be ashamed about.
I was horrified by those kind of comments on the MSNBC newsvine. Our team of ten went after one zimmie in particular. Cielo’s cat claws would have been a great help to us.
Anyhow, congratulations on a great event!
yahtc. I wasn’t at that event. I used “us” in reference to what the Zidiot said about “us.”
I’m sure Cielo would have used her claws in the best manner.
Oh, “us”…….I missed that meaning. *hugs*
growl!
Too bad those hyenas don’t get electric shocks from their keyboards when they write like that. That would warn them to shut the foaming up.
Those cats…….Oh, I can’t stop laughing. Ohhhhhh…….funny, funny funny. Great video, Xena!!
Back to those hyenas:
I picture the inner being of racists as being covered with oozing sores that make them miserable. Every time they say unkind or nasty words, they themselves are only hurting themselves and pour salt on those oozing sores.
pouring
Toooooooo funny Xena! Just what the doc ordered! LMAO!
As usual. you have captured cat’s particular prowess!
LOL! I can dig it! Where were you? In the back there, shaking your happy self?
@cielo62
I wasn’t there. The “we” confers to the entire Team Trayvon dancing around the drums/line dancing. The Zidiots intended it for evil, but we see that group used it for good to honor Trayvon.
I am honored to be part of the “we” with all of my fellow posters on the Leatherman blog here.
HIGH FIVE Team Trayvon!
Justice for Trayvon!
^5!
How about some surfing music with a great drum act?
Xena, at .17 on the “Some of them cats” video I can’t figure out the picture. It looks like a sort of yellowish cat on a bed but what’s it doing? Has it got long long legs?
@Malisha
The cat is chillin’.
Malisha….The cat looks like a persian that had been shaved. It is sitting folded over probably so that it can clean its stomach area. Some cats really can fold over like that so that it looks like they are doing sit-ups and touching their back toes.
Malisha, doesn’t it seem odd that gz did not remember if he succeeded in getting his cell phone out?
Reenactment:
And where is the address fogen said he was asked to get?! You know, the one he was NEVER asked to get?!!
It pisses me off that Serino and Singleton didn’t follow up and continued to interrupt fogen!!!
George continued even after he says “okay” to the dispatcher. He later told the investigators that he was simply going in the same direction as Trayvon because he needed to get an address at the end of the T on Retreat View Circle and that he WAS on the WAY BACK on the T toward his vehicle that he and Trayvon met up.
However, George NEVER went to Retreat View Circle.
Here is the proof:
First, here are the important time stamps of the NEN tape that are played to George in Part 3 of the February 29, 2012 interview–
As you can see, the light grey to indicate a quotation did not appear as I had hoped it would.
YAHTC:
GZ did go to RVC, and that’s where he banged his flashlight. But he didn’t go there to get an address. He thought his “suspect” was headed for the back gate, and he wanted to get a view of that and possibly cut off the “asshole’s” escape. Remember, he ran for over 20 seconds after leaving his truck. He’s lying when he says he walked. The handling noise on the NEN proves it.
Thanks, Whonoze. Are you basing that on gz “saying” he made it to RVC?
And, yet that, according to what was revealed by the questioning (as posted above) means that he made it there in 40 seconds from his truck. I guess that is possible.
At the T when he claims he saw Trayvon, he thought it was important enough to call 911. After he murdered the kid, he told the first witness, not to call, because he had already and they should be in route. Why wasn’t important then to call 911 after he was nearly dying and bleeding (45% of his head). Oh wait he had blood all in his eyes but not one witness has confirmed that either.
Youall, first you put down the “” code but OMIT THE EQUAL SIGNS — I put them in there to make sure WordPress did not convert my “word” into a “code” and you could see it. Then when you are DONE with that portion of text that you want block-quoted, you have to put in a “stop block quoting” code which is as follows, also without the equal-signs that I added to fool the program:
“”
The slash mark that comes before the “b” ends the blockquoting instruction.
So here’s the way to block quote:
Type
Then type your text
At the end of your text
Type
That’s it. Good luck.
Thanks, here goes
Youall, just type what you see WITHOUT the hyphens
BEFORE the part you want to be quoted:
Then your text
Then, AFTER the part you want to be quoted:
(again, leave out all the hyphens)
WOW, weird, it all vanished!
Another try
again
Just a thought….Now that fogen is suing NBC & ABC……..How fair do you think their reporting on him will be?
Hope they do not even consider leaning over backwards to “appease” him.
I sense that most of you posting here are middle age or more.
I am 63.
Anyone wish to reveal his/her age?
59………And getting younger by the day…..even though my body doesn’t agree
My identical twin *Nadine*( the wild, make-believe one) is 64…I refuse to grow old, and am just one half her age
59.
56
66
My kid just took ten years off my life by doing that “polar bear plunge thing” yesterday in the ice river so now I figure I’m 56.
Wow, that would chill off 10 years for anyone, Malisha!
50 and working on my 4th life. >^..^<
Meow
59. 5+9=14 YAY!
Well, the cyber-stalker, cyber-harasser, illegal doxer said that he knows for “A FACT” that I’m 79 yrs old. Then, after he claimed to have identified my real name, he said that I’m 61 yrs old. IOWs, his “FACT” conflicted with his doxed info —- so why don’t I just use his age — 41. LOL!!!
LOL, Xena……well, middle-age anyway.
LOL@yahtc.
Yeah — I suppose he feels good about profiling people as senior citizens to commit cyber-crimes against them. (shrug)
Great math, Two sides! That means I am younger than you!
63. 6+3=9
Yes, Xena…….and that guy probably threatens to call “internet police” at the same time as he is committing cyber crimes.
Check out this hysterically funny video:
LOL!!! Well, the cyber-stalker, cyber-harasser, illegal doxer actually justifies his actions by saying SOMEONE ELSE doxed and cyber-harassed SOMEONE ELSE. SMH.
43
Yahtc….That is the one question that I have always been interested in. It hasn’t mattered to me what gender or race someone is…..but it’s the experience/observations that comes with being on this earth a long time that helps us to make better and wiser judgements (well at least most people..can’t say much for the uncivilized bunch on the fogen side of this case).
BTW…..I’m 61 soon to turn 62…….I would not want to go back in time, to my youth, unless I could take all that I now know with me…..
Great observations, grey winter sky!
GWS, I often wish I could go back in time with my present knowledge and redo stuff, say things differently, understand what others were doing. 51.
I feel so young here. 50.
Just a young one…a tot
58.
I can’t remember. %@#$ Alzheimer’s!!!
Crimson flames tied through my ears
Rollin’ high and mighty trapped
countless fire and flaming roads
Using ideas as my maps
“We’ll meet on edges, soon,” said I
Proud ‘neath heated brow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I’m younger than that now.
Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
“Rip down all hate,” I screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I’m younger than that now.
In a soldier’s stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not I’d become my enemy
In the instant that I preached
sisters led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I’m younger than that now.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I’m younger than that now.
Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I’m younger than that now.
I wonder if gz has nightmares…….like maybe, when he is dreaming, all of his LIES come back as langoliers to haunt and chase him down.
Nomnomnom.
Then I looked up “nomnomnom” in the urban dictionary and found
It’s what the Cookie Monster said when confronted with a plate of cookies!
Im 53 yrs young
young……..good outlook!
Dang, I missed this thread! Got some catching up to do! THANKS YAHTC to pointing it out to me!
>^..^<
New Post Up:
The Defense in the Trayvon Martin Case Should Waive the Immunity Hearing
(test only, thanks)
http://1.s3.envato.com/files/6166855/Candles.Burning.in.the.Dark.jpg
(another test, checking icon)
last test )