Welcome to the open thread for today.
I have one post up regarding whether Trayvon was a peaceful and non-violent person. I also discuss prosecutorial discovery obligations and withholding inculpatory evidence. The title of the post: Was Trayvon Martin a Peaceful and Non-violent Person?
Use this open thread to discuss and comment on other matters.
Mahalo,
Fred
I guess everyone just stayed on the last post to discuss the case today. Good night everyone.
Good Morning Everyone!!!
It’s below zero in my neck of the woods with pure white snow on the ground and a song in a my heart. Hope this wakes you up and puts some pep in your step.
follow
@ Professor L. I sent a donation in that went through pay pal. It stated that my donation went to Fredericle. i don’t remember this happening on my last donation. With all this hacking going on, I want to be sure my donation is going straight to you. Please confirm. Thank you
@ Professor L. BTW The e-mail address just said your name. That is what made me a little suspicious. TIA
Donation received. Thanks.
New Post Up:
Did John (W6) Lie to the Police in the Trayvon Martin Murder Case?
I think it’s pretty obvious that John lied. He totally changed his testimony. The only question is was he lying from police pressure or because of some loyalty to GZ. He seems to have seen a lot in 10 seconds. I would think that a grown man, seeing a kid sitting on top of a bigger guy would simply pull the kid off, thus freeing the bigger man. Instead John went inside and had his girlfriend call 911? very odd behaviour
@kindheart101.
Dave’s video, showing the route to and from the 7-Eleven. Notice the roads.
that’s a pretty long walk to and from 711 and on a busy road, yet he survives that journey both ways, but is stalked by a car, then on foot and then chased down and murdered during a brutal assault from a neighbor!!!!!!
this is so haunting. so sad. just outrageous!
what roads are you referring to?
The road from the 7-Eleven to R@TL — the one that the Zidiots now say Trayvon was looking into and trying to break into cars parked along his route home. As you can see, there’s no place for cars to park on that road.
Stupid idiots!!1 what else will they come up with next? they can’t see the freakin road that’s like a highway???
anyway, i definitely believe gz was out on his *usual* sunday self appointed NW watch patrol.
i base this on the early taffee interviews when he keeps saying it. and gz’s lack of credibility when he said he wasn’t!!LOL
but i think gz was made aware by someone, probably at the scene or maybe the ride to the station, to NOT mention that little detail.
because many of the cops that were around at the time have had at least some sort of contact with him prior. and him being the cop groupie he is, had to think he was their buddy and knew ALL of them and ALL about them! he may have even complained about some of them.,
But i think one of them might of Reminded him to make it clear that he wasn’t on patrol.
i think he probably woulda loved for the cops to know he was on patrol and spotted, hunted down and captured the criminal.. except he was dead wrong.
Rinehart Road where there are many car dealerships probably. Between the 7-11 and the Sams Club.
“Probably”????? That speaks volumes. Have you watched Dave’s video? Have you watched the M&I Bank video that the State entered in discovery? Have you watched the 7-Eleven video to see the time that Trayvon left that store? Compare it to the time that Osterman is seen on the M&I bank video, please.
Xena – Google maps shows a number of Car Dealerships. I think that is why they are saying that.
Yes, Shannon. Looking at that long walk there and back, with the sundown and rain, it would be tiring no matter what age. Then to know after you enter the gated community that there’s still more walking to where you live — well, to be so close to home, cut-off by an enraged man with a gun — I just can’t imagine what all went through Trayvon’s mind.
Sams Club and Kohl videos. Wonder what that is about. There are a number of Car dealerships along Rineheart Road all around the 7-11.
It was either FDLE or the FBI who obtained those videos, including the one from a surrounding complex. According to their report, there was nothing of any significance in them.
I thought the SPD obtained them early on.
Sams Club is right by the 7-11. There is a mall. Kohls and M-I Bank is past where Trayvon would have turned to get back to the Retreat.
Kohl’s address is past where TM would have turned, but the store itself is closer to the North side of Oregon Ave. and the corner of the building is visible at 3:19 in Dave’s video posted above. It’s across Oregon from the apartment complex just West of The Retreat. The parking for these apartments is just feet from the sidewalk along Oregon. Again you can see the parked cars in Dave’s video at 3:22.
That said, the odds of a security video showing anyone near the street “attempting to break into a car” (whatever that means) are extremely slim, and the odds of a figure near the street (doing anything) being identifiable as Trayvon Martin are slim cubed. Security videos are low resolution, wode angle shots that just don’t register detail at any distance whatsoever.
This whole business just smells of a Treehouse flight of fancy. There are videos, so they must show something!! I’m just guessing, but if they had any evidentiary value I’d think we’d hear something from the Defense. The prosecution probably collected the videos just in case, and turned them over to the defense because they have them, and discovery says they have to share. And Angela Corey’s probably having a good chuckle that someone on the Defense team is wasting their time looking through this footage that shows absolutely nothing
Thanks for your clarification, whonoze.
What I am thinking, is that the Fogen (alone or with others) is caught at the M-I ATM drive-through, caught on video going to Kohls, and lastly at Sams Club. It may show that the Fogen was seen passing Trayvon either going to or leaving the 7-11 DURING his shopping trip. He did have a Sams Club credit card and it was not with him that leads me to believe his wife was with him or she was shopping alone.
That sure would be something if the Kohls’ and Sam’s Club videos did capture gz. Yet, if they had, don’t you think that de la Rionda would have released them publicly by now?
Only the ATM video has been released. It will be great when that ATM transaction record is released.
I am glad to finally see the pedestrian gates at the front and back of the Retreat.
Also, what a long walk that was to 7-11 for Trayvon.
Didn’t Crump mention something about Trayvon having the combination to the pedestrian gate?
Yes. Mr. Crump said he had to use the code. There was no key found on Trayvon and there is no evidence that he ever used the cut-through by Taaffes house. The gate would have been closed and Trayvon would have had to use the code to get in.
Thanks for info.
“Looking at that long walk there and back, it would be tiring no matter what age.”
Er, no.
It’s .8 mi from the 7-11 to the RATL Clubhouse. At the ages of 12 and 13, I walked .8 mi to school every day, and never once felt tired on arriving, or after making the trip home. And I was an overweight nerd who got a D in gym because I couldn’t do one pull-up, or climb the rope, and finished last in the 600 yard run. Trayvon was 17, long-legged, and trim. Unless he had recently come down with TB or juvenile emphysema, there’s no way (none, nada, zilch, bupkiss) that walk tuckered him out.
For the distance, I think it would have been a relatively easy walk, because it is so flat. But the rain may have made it seem long.
Let’s take some time now and put together evidence of the type of person gz is. Under this post let’s list some examples of George being a liar.
He lied to his cousin to lure her to his Lake Mary home by telling her many members of their family would be at an event he was hosting.
[["The last encounter happened when the woman was 19, she said. By then Zimmerman had moved to Florida, not long before his parents followed. That time, Zimmerman demanded that she lay down on the bed to receive a massage. Fearful, she said she did, but when he bent close to kiss the side of her face, his erect penis pressed up against her. At that moment she decided to run, she said. Zimmerman chased her to the front door."]]]
“I was scared of what else was going to happen,” she said.
“With him, he like, he was a different person to me. He was very intimidating and the fact that he made everyone love him and made everyone laugh and be so happy around him, I knew if I said anything he would just deny it,” she said.
click> Witness #9 Files: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman Case …
Oh my, this is going to be a long list.
Lied about getting his Associate’s Degree to his best friend.
And lied about it during his interview.
Serino: Highest level of education?
Zimmerman: Ah, Associates.
Serino: OK you’ve been re….in what?
Zimmerman: Pardon?
Serino: In what?
Zimmerman: Criminal Justice.
DENIED Is stamped on George Zimmerman’s (student #1309418) application (Dated 10-17-11) for an Associate in Arts (A.A.) degree.
He lied to Hannity say he did not understand SYG but told Serino he did understand it because he had a degree in criminology.
He lied by omission in that he did not inform the HOA of his past arrest record when he took on the role of NW coordinator.
He also lied about not having a mental health diagnosis, and taking medication for such.
He lied to a co-worker at Car Max by sending him out a nonexistent car sale.
The co-worker also said that gz “pressured me to split my first floor sale with him by lying about the CarMax policy of splitting deals.”
The co-worker said gz “intentionally gave me wrong directions about how to perform my job, and then later made jokes to other employees and managers of how ‘stupid’ I was to listen.”
GZ lied about spreading Trayvon’s arms out after he shot him.
And what a dummy gz was to say that….huh, Xena.
Like a person really needs to “restrain” the victim whom he had just shot in the heart?
How depraved is that when we know what gz was actually doing!
Yep. GZ’s lies are an insult to intelligence. If GZ indeed spread Trayvon’s arms out, then he needs to tell the State who put them under Trayvon’s body afterwards and before the cops arrived.
Whonoze……you just won’t believe how often our newsvine Trayvon team linked your “lies video” during our back and forths with the zimmies. Your video was such a good “zinger” to throw at those guys!!!!
GZ lied to financial donors, leading them to believe he needed money for legal defense and living expenses, but used it to pay off his pre-Feb. 26, 2012 debts.
Oh, that is one I would have forgotten to list!
If we take GZ at his word about his first verbal exchange with Trayvon, he lied to Trayvon because GZ did have a problem.
A major lie
He lied about “not knowing how old Trayvon was” when he made his insincere attempt at an apology to Trayvon’s parents in open court.
Does anyone know whether Florida’s minimum sentencing law allows the prosecution to cut plea bargains for reduced sentences below the minimum? On some forums, I’ve seen speculation that this case may end in a plea bargain, but if the minimum sentencing standards apply GZ goes to prison for about the same term for Manslaughter as for Murder 2, given that a gun was involved, etc.
I ask because it just occurred to me that if GZ can plead to something that would get him a significantly reduced sentence, he would have one bargaining chip to offer (though I doubt he;d use it): He could turn State’s evidence and blow the whistle on the SPD conspiracy to cover-up his crime by manipulating witnesses and evidence to support his bogus claim of self-defense. I doubt Angela Corey has any interest in prosecuting the cops, but if GZ went public there would be pressure on her to do something. If she stonewalls, it might even be possible for the Defense to wangle that into a mistrial. I don’t think she can offer him a deal to keep him quiet, because of the public outrage that would follow.
I think GZ would only have a fixed window of time for such a move, as I think Chris Serino will probably be spilling the beans sooner or later.
But, of course, GZ would have to admit his own guilt in the process, and so far all the evidence seems to point to him being so delusional he thinks he can get a jury to buy his lies and he’ll get off scott free [as in Rick Scott
]. Me, I can’t see that happening…
Good question, whonoze.
At some point…..if he pleas or if he is convicted…..he will squeal on them.
@whonoze.
Marissa Alexander was offered 3 yrs. She turned it down, was found guilty, and the judge had no choice than to sentence her to the statutory 20 yrs.
th difference is she wouldn’t have been charged with a crime when the gun went off.
gz cannot be offered a deal like that because his victim is dead and there’s no choice when you kill someone with a gun during a crime ( self defense is not a crime)
gz’s gun enhancement means 25 to life.
In Winnipeg, LCs walk an avg. of 17 miles per shift counting stairs to and from homes with an avg. satchel weight of 35 lbs. Trayvon walking that distance would be easy. If it weren’t, I doubt he would bother going to the store.
Bless you, seallison!
Correct. Didn’t Deedee mention something about Trayvon running at times on the way back from 7-11 because of rain? …….something about the running that caused the phone to disconnect before he arrived back at the Retreat?
No, she didn’t.
Thanks so much for correcting me on that.
OK, here’s a question for fun:
I think when the smoke clears, Chris Serino will no longer be patrolling a beat in Sanford, but will be making appearances on every TV talk show (except the ones on Fox, of course) to discuss his tell-all book, and he will be negotiating a 7 figure deal for movie rights, with bidding from multiple production companies associated with A-List Hollywood stars.
So, who do you think should/will play Serino in the movie (e.g. Ben Affleck)? Who would you NOT want to see play him (e.g. … Ben Affleck)?
Ha! Good one, whonoze.
Maybe, Serino will become a commentator on News programs as their “in house” investigator.
Vin Diesel. LOL!!!
For the part of Serino? No way lady he is way too big for the part!!
@blushedbrown. Re: Vin Diesel. He might be big, but I like him. (Hunkahunkahunka) Most people don’t know that he’s Black and Italian. Serino says he’s Puerto Rican and Italian. Vin Diesel should make him proud.
@Xena,
Vin Diesel, HUNK GALORE, didn’t know that he was black/italian. I think he is way too sexy for Serino part but yes have to agree he would do him proud.
Hey blushedbrown!!! Good morning!! How about Michael Keaton?
@Xena
Good Morning!!
Michael Keaton, YES! He played that psyco renter in “Pacific Heights” Did you know that he really ate the cockroach that went across the tv screen in that movie.
Yuck! No I didn’t know that. Good thing I already had breakfast. LOL!!!
Sorry! Yep. I like his commitment to his craft. Ha!
Someone with a gruff voice – Al Pacino, maybe.
I think Pacino would be excellent for the part. Good looking, Older, Played cop parts before. Remember him in “HEAT”, with DeNiro.
Serino, played by Al Pacino or Cheech Marin
GZ played by George Lopez, Carlos Mencia, or Jorge Garcia
RZ Jr played by Mario lopez
mama z played by Lupe Ontiveros ( she had a small role in As Good As It Gets has a heavy spanish accent)
SZ played by Rosie Perez
Papa Z played by Martin Sheen?
Frank Taaffe played by Nick Nolte
Oliver played by any of the Wayan brothers.
Taaffe played by Nick Nolte made me laugh. Look at his booking photo!
HA!:lol:
Nolte wouid be the perfect pick to play Taaffee.
What about the background music?
Jerry Goldsmith
Yes, blushedbrown!
LMBO!
Like I said Nolte would be perfect!
@Grahase
That was fun! Gary Busey and Nolte can be brothers!
Either one can play the part!
Well, that was fun to watch, seallison.
How about Mickey Rourke as Serino?
I like it!
I loved Mickey Rourke in his younger days, don’t know about now though…..
George disrespected the law….George disrespected authority ……George disrespected NW guidelines…….George disrespected a court of law.
George used derogatory language (“got his hump”) describing the undercover agent whom he assaulted.
Also, george let his “boys” take a rap for him.
He lied on applications saying he was white. oops, no he didn’t. He is white. Oops, no he isn’t. He is Hispanic. Nope, he is black and Hispanic. No. He is white. Well, he lied about something there. LOL. Depended on the circumstances. He was whatever would be advantageous.
Good one! LOL
He lied about having a broken nose. When describing how Trayvon tried to smother him, Fogen demonstrated to the Voice Stress Test guy how Trayvon did it – pinching his nose.
There was no blood coming out of nostrils in the coloured photo. He was speaking clearly – no sign of swelling in his voice.
He pinched his own nose just hours after the alleged beating! Try doing that and, at the very least, your eyes would water, your nose would run, and you would show pain on your face —- nothin. Nothin caught on tape.
Lied about Trayvon coming at him from behind after hiding in non-existent trees at the tee.
He lied about why he went into hiding.Using the NBPP before they had even issued the threat. He hid before anyone even heard his name.
That is an important lie in the overall case……..I hope NBC lawyer recognize that as far as gz’s lawsuit.
@Grahase
Yep, they didn’t get on the scene until March 15th
He lied writing that his Father was a Judge on application for Citizens Police Academy.
He lied when he said he knew every man, woman, and child in the neighbourhood. Yet, he could not remember the name of the street he was on.
Girl, you are on a roll!
He lied to the investigators when he told them he parked his car at the clubhouse which is disproven by the clubhouse security cameras.
George had rage issues.
In 2005 the court required him to take an anger management course.
He assaulted an undercover officer who was arresting a friend for underage drinking.
George has failed in most of his undertakings.
He started an insurance company with a friend but failed to pass the requirements to obtain an insurance license.
He was fired from his security bouncer job.
He had failed relationships.
He was rejected from the police cadet program.
He received D’s in most of his criminal college courses.
He was let go (fired?) at his Car Max job.
His application for an associates degree program was denied October 17, 2011.
Defendant’s Supplemental Notice of Reciprocal Discovery
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/0113/defendant_supplemental_discovery.pdf
What is OROC evidence vault mean? Item G.
Don’t know.
That will have me a little bonkers. What does those letters mean?
Over Reaction On Cement?
That is GOOD.
Everything thing on there is to be expected. Nothing major.
I going to call it a night. Be blessed!
O.R.
n. short for “own recognizance,” meaning the judge allowed a pers…
Good try, but it refers to evidence.
blushedbrown……Are these documents anywhere else?……I have never gone to the gz legal site because I don’t want to take a chance that slime might ooze up through my keypad.
@Yahtc
You are so funny, just say to your computer, ” I’m only getting information computer, don’t slime me please, and I promise to get some sterile wipes to the keyboard asasp after I am done”.
No, I haven’t been able to find them elsewhere. You would think when OS wrote the story about it they would of provided a link. (sigh)
I noticed that Axiom/Amnesia has not kept up with the supplementary evidence.
Yes, I know but they were awesome in providing alot of information back in the early days of the case.
blushedbrown, take a look at how I stored ALL the transcripts of statements by gz + witnesses under an OLD msnbc article in just one reply box–
.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/11/15841268-florida-judge-rejects-zimmerman-request-to-remove-gps-monitor?pc=25&sp=0&threadId=3627380#c72823436
I’ll check it out in a minute, I got to get off this thing. house looks like a tornado came through here….
oh, so GZ is gonna introduce witness 8′s recorded statement?? YIPPIE!!!!
thanks for the good news BB!! you made my day
Mickey Rourke hunk of a man in his day, remember him in 91/2 weeks?
you know what, i have NEVER watched that movie! i don’t know why, but i LOVE kim basinger.. but i wasn’t into rourk.. not my type ya know?
i like Liam Nelson… he’s a english gentleman..or is he irish? LLOLO
did you see the George Killerman Documentary by Sanford Watch? i’m just watching it on my TV (LOL) on you tube.. and in the beginning Ben Crump is talking. and Piers Morgan is talking about the witness who came outside and gz asked him to help him.. you should see it..
Watch the movie !!! It would be good if you have somebody to watch it with, mainly a person you can ahem…. will you get the picture.
There is a sequel to the movie but I can’t remember the name…
Anywho, I will get to those suggestions as soon as I start on this damn house!!!
are you hinting that i need to clean my house?? LOL b/c you’re damn right i do!!LOL i’ve been lollygagging all day!
and i don’t have someone to watch it with. maybe that’s why i’ve been lollygaggin i guess!LOL
@Shannon
No sweetie, you so crazy, Ladystclaire said that she needed to get started on her house and I replied in the same.
Its funny how all the woman say they got to houseclean on Saturday.
I too have been loolygagging and hubby will be home soon… (Gasp)
I have to go, but its so hard to let go….
Now, Kim Bassinger, she is gorgeous. I liked her in the movie with Russel Crowe in L.A. Confidetial.
go on get outa here!! we gotta clean!!!!
You are so Right!!
Blushedbrown is a very bad lady…not cleaning her house…keep posting she gotta clean and no cleaning has been done!
ok ok I’m really going this time!
You can skip to time stamp 1:03
The biggest lie of all, he said it was self defense.
You got that one right!
@Whonoze,
Did you get that info I sent you?
More fun:
How about a Treenuts version of a GZ movie?
GZ: Duane “The Rock” Johnson
Shellie: Jessica Simpson
Wolfinger: Jon Voight
Bill Lee: James Caan
Mark Osterman: Chuck Norris
Sandra Osterman: Angie Harmon
Angela Corey: Victoria Jackson
Bernie de la Rionda: James Woods
Mark O’Mara: Tom Selleck
Sean Hannity: Dennis Miller
Score: Ted Nugent and Kid Rock
Excellent list, really like your choice of Voight and Woods.
Osterman, played by Chuck Norris, what a hoot.
Did you get that info I sent you yesterday?
Hey, I have an idea……maybe the Lego company should manufacture a Treehouse set with all of the characters.
Or maybe there should be a board game……like monopoly you draw cards but they are labeled “Chancy Lie” and “Solid Evidence”
LOL @ Lego Treehouse!
this is so disgusting. gz is a filthy, child molesting POS!! and now i’m even MORE convinced he did it to another girl too that his cousin talked about!! ( not that i doubted her before, since molesters rarely have just one victim!!)
“The same month, the woman said, Zimmerman became angry when she came home later than usual one night. He began groping her and “said he could because I was his woman,” she wrote.”
YAHTC, i got that from your link you posted earlier!! ewwwwwwwwwwwww he’s so sick man, i swear, his cousin needs to be called at trial and finally have her say because this is what this whole case is about. GZ’s Lack of credibility and his propensity to commit harm on others!!
I am not sure what woman you are talking about, shannonfrommiami.
At my link….there are no transcripts of his ex-fiance’s statements, no transcripts of his cousin or any other woman that he knew.
Did you click on one of the discovery links I provided at my link to get that info?
I am asking because I would like to read what you read about what you read.
NO f*ckin way Kid Rock is gonna play anything for GZ!!
I don’t like to brag, but i love to boast.
Kid Rock~(pre Romney debacle)
I nominate Mickey Rourk to play BDRL!
down in south beach,years ago steven segal’s brother drugged me. when he went to get me a drink he put something in it.
but i didn’t really like him because he was weird. he tried to actually LOOK like Steven doing his pony tail and clothes.
anyway, once i had gulped down probably half the drink i jumped in a cab to meet some peeps at an after hour place. but when i was getting out of the cab i was feeling weird and the guys at the door walked me straight to the bathroom and one held my hair while i puked my brains out! after that he propped me up against the wall at the bar in the bartender’s care. ( i knew most of the dudes b/c it’s kinda a small town, and they knew i didn’t act like that!!).
when i look over i see Mickey Rourk sitting there! i didn’t really know him, but i’d been acquainted with him since we had mutual friends.
and we had sat at the same table at a party before.
anyway, he moved over and we tried to figure out what that idiot had given me.. we think it was GHB.
after a few when i didn’t feel any better he dropped me off home safe and sound!
he’s a decent guy!
yes he went over board on the surgery, but he could make himself look and act like BDLR!!
Brought to you by Sanford Watch
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTth55XYGUg&w=560&h=315%5D
notice gz’s comments about the witness!!
@Shannon
I wrote a post inspired by about another Sandford Watch video they have done. I would like your thoughts on it.
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2013/01/19/guest-post-1-blaming-the-black-man/#respond
I read your post, blushedbrown…..good job. And, the host of the blog thought so too!
YAHTC:
I should elaborate on my earlier terse comment about what DeeDee said about Trayvon running to the mail area. It DOES kind of sound like she says he ran from the 7-11 and the phone cut off because he was running. This is because she doesn’t say how long after TM left the 7-11 that it started to rain. What she says is that he ran to the mail shed after it started raining. He left the 7-11 at 6:29 and it started drizzling at 6:37, by which time he would have been about half-way home. But there were other places along his walking route where he could have gotten out of the rain. The rain volume slowly increased between 6:37 and 6:47. In order to run for the shed, logically he would have had to have been close to the shed, so that it was the nearest convenient cover. This fits perfectly with the timing of the rain picking up and the time it takes to walk from 7-11 back to The Retreat (15 minutes). Also, she kind of swallows he words when referring to the phone disconnecting, but I’m pretty sure she means they lost contact after he got under the shed. She only refers to one call drop, but Taryvon’s phone records actually show there were two, one at 6:41, at which time he still would have been en route from the 7-11 to The Retreat, and the next at 6:54, by which time he was definitely under the mail shed. But it just doesn’t make sense that he would have been running for the mail shed at 6:41, because other cover would definitely have been closer (e.g. the entrance awning of the apatment complex west of RATL). So it started raining, he walked in the drizzle for awhile, then ran for the shed when the rain picked up as he got into The Retreat. Then “a couple minutes later” as DeeDee would say, his call dropped again as he was under the mailbox awning, and she called him back.
So actually, you remember what she said pretty well, it’s just that the way she said it is confusing….
How nice of you to explain everything to me, whonoze. Thank you soooo much!
“The same month, the woman said, Zimmerman became angry when she came home later than usual one night. He began groping her and “said he could because I was his woman,” she wrote.”
yes, i got that from a link somewhere on that page you posted. but while i was there i don’t think i saw your collection of stuff…
iirc, this quote was from gz’s ex about the restraining orders. i think that infor was actually on another news website tho… i’ll try to find it for you… BRB
YAHTC>here is where i got this quote from and i posted the whole article. BTW, i did see all your stuff this time. i think when you click on the link it automatically scrolls to the latest comment.
http://shannoninmiami.wordpress.com