Zimmerman: Evidence of Police Corruption to Clear Zimmerman is not Evidence of Innocence

Cherokee Native said,

“Judge Nelson should have pointed out in her ruling that the SPD’s conduct that night was irrelevant to the state vs. zimmerman case – it is an argument for a different tribunal – and she should have issued a warning to O’Mara and West that attempts to taint the jury would result in sanctions”

I believe the police investigation at the crime scene and the way they interviewed witnesses, including Zimmerman, did not measure up to minimal standards of investigation. Serino was in charge and he should bear the responsibility for the mistakes. He also committed some of the most egregious errors when he told witnesses at the scene that the police had identified Zimmerman as the person who screamed for help.

Zimmerman also was permitted to clean up in the bathroom at the station house before he was questioned and photographs were taken.

“Correcting” eyewitness accounts and permitting the prime suspect to destroy possible evidence of a homicide are absolutely unacceptable errors and suggest to me that a decision had already been made to clear Zimmerman before he was transported to the station house for questioning.

A focused police search for evidence to support a decision not to charge a person with a crime in a suspicious death case before an investigation has been completed is an example of a preordained conclusion in search of a factual basis to support it.

That is a cover-up, not a competent police investigation.

O’Mara’s Motion for a Prophylactic Sequestration of Witnesses indicates that he may attempt to exploit the initial improper decision not to charge Zimmerman with a crime and the subsequent police search for evidence to support it as evidence that Zimmerman did not commit a crime and should not have been charged.

Good luck with that, Mr. O’Mara!

Evidence of police corruption to clear your client is not evidence of innocence.

I sincerely hope that you succeed in identifying the people responsible for the immensely corrupt outcome-driven cover-up of a homicide that directly benefited your client.

To avoid reinventing the wheel, you might want to go knock-knock-knocking on the FBI’s door for the keys to their confidential investigation file on the Sanford Police Department and the State’s Attorney’s Office for Seminole County. I doubt they will confirm or deny the existence of that file, but you should check anyway.

How ironic is it that the evidence you seek to exculpate George Zimmerman instead will reveal the internal corruption within the SPD and the Seminole County State’s Attorney’s Office that was responsible for the decision not to charge Zimmerman for murdering just another anonymous Black trouble-maker.

Too bad for George that the anonymous Black trouble-maker whom he targeted to kill turned out to be a real human being and a good one too, rather than the comic book Black gangsta he invented to conceal his predatory act.

If I recall correctly, Mr. O’Mara assured us that race had nothing to do with this case.

Memo to the file: It had everything to do with this case and it still does.

205 Responses to Zimmerman: Evidence of Police Corruption to Clear Zimmerman is not Evidence of Innocence

  1. Two sides to a story says:

    “Evidence of police corruption to clear your client is not evidence of innocence.”

    Or laziness, or carelessness, or incompetence, or whatever happened with SPD . . . period.

  2. leander22 says:

    powerful, just as Cherokee Native highly deserved a special mention.

  3. Tzar says:

    Amazing what vagabonds will try

  4. rachael says:

    I don’t know how to post a video here so you can see it, so here is the link. It was posted (to be made fun of) at the outhouse. It is a Trent Sawyer video. I don’t usually care much for his videos because he is so abrasive that it is hard for me to focus, but this one is different and makes an excellent point.

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      I have to turn the sound way down so the children won’t overhear and think that’s any way to talk, and I wish Trent Sawyer would attend Cuss U., so that he would not appear to have been dragged down by his risible detractors, BUT he has made good observations helpful to understanding this case. So I thank you sir if you’re reading here!

  5. Malisha says:

    Professor, thank you for elevating intelligence and logic back up to where it should have been all along: Evidence that police were corrupt enough to try to cover up a crime is not Evidence that they were RIGHT to try to cover up the crime. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    Miss Patty Mahaney, the Commissioner who became so impassioned about the lack of confidence in Police Chief Lee, said she felt like her town was being invaded by outsiders. It WAS. It was invaded by outsiders who would not go along with the corrupt, evil, murderous, racist cover-up that her police department wanted to perpetrate upon the citizens of a country that has already outlawed that behavior, 150 years ago.

  6. CherokeeNative says:

    Thank you Professor for confirming what I am seeing – it is ludicrous for the defense to go down the path that they are taking because the course of conduct of the SPD, et al., that night was clearly an effort to let GZ walk away unscathed. It is cause for an investigation, but not in the Zimmerman Murder 2 case. I still want to know who GZ was on the phone to that night when the photo of his head was taken. I suspect it was Mark O. or Daddy Z, who in turn made phone calls explaining how squeeky clean GZ was, a student of criminal law, yadda yadda to higher ups and the wheels were set in motion. I don’t for a moment believe that the defense team is going to use this theory at trial – it makes me wonder if this is just a defense ploy to confuse the prosecution on what their line of defense is truly going to be, or just propaganda to further taint the jury. Squirrly none the less.

  7. Xena says:

    O’Mara’s Motion for a Prophylactic Sequestration of Witnesses indicates that he may attempt to exploit the initial improper decision not to charge Zimmerman with a crime and the subsequent police search for evidence to support it as evidence that Zimmerman did not commit a crime and should not have been charged.

    IIRC, in O’Mara’s Prophylactic Sequestration motion, he stated that Ofc. Santiago said that the lab reports were performed during those 2 wks in which meetings were held everyday and it was determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge George. He also stated that Serino did not object to not charging GZ.

    I seriously doubt that the 2 wks of meetings began in late Feb. as Serino and Singleton conducted their interview with GZ on 2/29/12. Serino’s Capias is dated 3/13/12. That corresponds to about 2 wks since GZ performed his re-enactment.

    I didn’t go back to the subject motion, but did take another look at the FDLE lab reports and other discovery docs. The lab reports were submitted on 3/20/12. They consisted of, among other things, tests and findings for DNA and debris.

    Some of the police reports, such as that of Michael Wagner, are dated 3/24/12.

    If the 2 wks of meetings began in early March, the SPD did not have the lab reports and in fact, they didn’t have all the police reports in writing either. If that 2 wks covered the time of 3/13/12, the SPD did have and know about the Capias during meetings held on or right after 3/13/12.

    Based on the dates of docs and lab reports, in consideration for what O’Mara alleges, it indeed appears that there was a cover-up in the SPD.

  8. Malisha says:

    Cherokee Native, you’re right that the police corruption is not evidence of innocence. Furthermore, there is no evidence of innocence except for George Zimmerman’s testimony, if he ever has the balls to stand up in court, get sworn in, sit in the witness box, and testify, after which he will get his alleged balls handed to him in a tin cup. Everything the State has collected is evidence of guilt. A picture of George’s head is not evidence of innocence; until he testifies that his head was hurt by being slammed against concrete while he lay prone and helpless under Trayvon Martin it is just a picture, and not a very interesting one. A medical report saying “likely fracture” of his nose is not evidence of innocence; until he testifies that his nose was hurt by being punched directly in his nose by a murderous attacker named Trayvon Martin (who somehow avoided getting nose-DNA on his fist while inflicting the grevious injury), it is just a report and not a very specific one. In fact, until and unless George Zimmerman gets on the stand and takes his oath and speaks, there is NO EVIDENCE OF INNOCENCE.

    So police corruption cannot prove innocence. If it could, surely the Mafia would have no problem executing any of their enemies in New York, New Jersey, Chicago, Detroit or LA. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    • rayvenwolf says:

      Testifying isn’t evidence of innocent either, at least n GZ’s case since he can’t keep his story straight or at least keep the stuff that make it seem like a good shoot.

      Case in point – Tells Singleton Trayvon was trying to bash his head one last time when he shot(seems odd to do rather than making a proper play for the gun if not keeping it out of play for either of them, but ok). We never hear that again after that one time.

      Instead we get wrist control and no struggle.

      Does that make any sense? Why would you drop quite possibly the ONLY part of your story that makes things look good for you?

      I guarantee if GZ testifies he will be off script within a short amount of time on cross. He will do himself in.

      • Dennis says:

        I agree. I was thinking about the fact that Zimmerman made statements to the police. He had to explain his version of what happened to police regardless of his guilt. I then decided to research the different between an affidavit and a witness statement.

        Unlike witness statements: “An affidavit contains statements which are sworn to, under oath of perjury, as truthful statements by the individual who is executing the document. Consequently, when one executes an affidavit, one is attesting that one is not lying or presenting misleading information. As a result, affidavits are deemed truthful statements.”

        Frederick, would you mind explaining to us whether Zimmerman’s statements to police are considered an affidavit or not? And also, if it is considered an affidavit, could Zimmerman be prosecuted/punished for making provenly false statements in the affidavit regardless if he goes on the stand and commits perjury? Thank you for your time.

      • gblock says:

        George’s testimony might be considered evidence that murder two is not an appropriate charge – it is not evidence of innocence since he could have prevented the situation from arising.

    • Sleuth says:

      Very well stated. I so agree with you and the comments made by CherokeeNative.

      There are so many lies, and twisting of facts involved in this murder case. What a tragic loss of what was a very promising and productive life of such a young person.

      Sure glad RZ, Jr. got us straight about his family’s ethnicity, white and Peruvian, who eat Peruvian food. Not white with African and Peruvian roots. IOW, the family does not identify with its alleged African roots. Got it. However, it also seems as though, that on some level, RZ, Jr. is ashamed of his “Zimmerman” roots. Or did I somehow misinterpret his comments?

      The confessed murderer, along with his family, has been the main spin masters and sources of so much deliberate misinformation, not the media. The media has simply reported what has been told to them by the family and their mouthpieces, Craig Sonner, Hal Uhrig, Frank Taafee, Joe Oliver, Mark Osterman, GZ, RZ, Jr. & Sr., MOM, etc.

      They have repeatedly, and falsely portrayed Trayvon as the one acting with “a deprave mind”, i. e. shaken baby syndrome, depend diapers, head repeatedly pounded on a pavement sidewalk, moments away from death, knocked into unconsciousness”. Sounds like some serious projection going on.

      Yet he refused medical treatment and was deemed by his doctor fit enough to return to work so soon after he committed a murder. Upon his return to work he told a female co-worker a lie that he was mugged, and had to shoot and kill the alleged mugger. I guess this was during his “let me test my story” phase.

      As far as Trayvon Martin breaking his nose, I strongly suspect he had rhinoplasty cosmetic surgery in the past (or “nose reduction surgery”). Or even as a result of a previous fight prior to him ever encountering Trayvon.

      From all of his adult pictures posted all over the Internet, it appears as though he has had a procedure done on his nose, just wondering why he didn’t do anything about that huge cut/gash on the left side of his face.

      As far as those teeny weenie scratches on his face and the tip of his nose, and the alleged broken nose, well that could have happened as a result of kick back. That’s if his nose was really broken during whatever occurred the evening of 2/26/2012.

      Same with his alleged back injury. The Orlando Sentinel did a story a while back regarding a chair he purchased for his personal use at work due to an alleged back problem.

      IOW, he most likely had pre-existing physical injuries that included a broken nose in addition to psychiatric problems, which became exasperated as a result of his own actions that night. Hopefully the SP will seek out those records and be allowed to use them.

  9. jd says:

    I’m not sure I agree with some of this. The truth is, as far as the public can tell, there has been no credible outside investigation of the SPD’s handling of the case, nor of Norm Wolfinger’s involvement. Yes, the FBI person assigned to look into possible civil rights by the suspect George Zimmerman may have private opinions and paperwork that reflects their opinions, but they were NOT tasked with an investigation of the SPD. It’s pretty clear to me that that threat was on the table from the DoJ, (“we’ll come in an clean house”) but that it was not a threat that was carried out.

    The state of Florida, through the GOP governor moved to appoint a special prosecutor at the same time as the DoJ initially moved to step in. Had the governor not done so, THEN the feds may have waded into the swamp far enough to make sure the SPD was examined. Instead, the pressure was eased off when Corey took the case. Wolfinger quietly announced he was not running for re-election the same week GZ was indicted. Cheif Bill Lee went, not so quietly, but he went… away as well.

    Yes, people poked around but take a look at the FDLE / prosecution summary of the debriefing of Serino for a sample of how they were really just scratching the surface.

    I think Serino and SIngleton did a decent job in the first 48 hours establishing the utter lack of credibility of the admitted killer of the unarmed teen. Then, their investigation bogged down with the lack of a slam-dunk eyewitness to the whole altercation, and the near tragic mishandling of the cell phone of the victim. Beyond that, the csae spiraled out of their direct control and we are NOT going to know the full details.

    I agree that both Singleton and Serino made mistakes, but IMO they got a great deal of it right from the get-go as well. It’s a small department and Serino was the only one assigned to homicide. Singleton normally does narcotics cases. What they did right was keep George talking, and talking and talking until he’d been given enough rope to hand his credibility with.

    Keep in mind when you hear those two SPD investigators on tape that they are BOTH playing “good cop” the whole time, in order to seem sympathetic to GZ and thereby draw him out further and further as his inconsistent and contradictory statements pile up against him. The “voice stress test” is a case in point, being that they are a joke in a courtroom as evidence of anything at all, and yet the real reason it’s done was to keep George talking, and to keep George thinking that it was WISE for him to keep talking. They even intentionally left him to wait around for a long time in a room alone with SIngleton so he’s nervously try to fill the silence with semi-incrimintating remarks like the one he made about “respecting authority.” But the real “result” of the voice stress test is that he gave yet another inconsistent account of his movements and actions surrounding the shooting.

    Everything we know about Serino is filtered through what little we truly know about his actions and words. He gave a JOINT interview with his boss Bill Lee to the Orlando Sentinel where he toe’d the party line, but I tend to think he refused to speak to the NYT’s reporter, the one with the pulitzer prize, by the way, who delved as deep as he could behind the curtains. To a certain extent he’s an enigma, yes but I think his suspicions were signaled soon enough. I also think he’s wise to STFU and remain a professional, at least until the trial is over. Let’s face it, the press coverage has not been stellar thus far.

    Serino also very obviously came to the conclusion that GZ was not a credible person, and he intimated as much to at least one of the residents. apparently. Yes, he may have initially thought GZ was the one calling for help, but let’s face it, we may never know who was, either. The FBI’s experts claim it can’t be determined from the poor quality sample. But I tend to back Serino, and his gut here once he got his feet wet and was further into the case. He’s the one who looked into George’s eyes and saw his injuries up close, and could smell the bullshit coming when it was clear George was lying about his movements that evening. Serino feels George is guilty of a least manslaughter, and wanted proof of more, and earnestly sought to get it.

    We’ll always have George Zimmermans, but Cheif Bill Lee and Norm Wolfinger are public servants who failed in their duty, IMO. And that may be the greater shame in the end. Certainly the lack of investigation is. A fish rots from the head, as Mao Tse Tung liked to say.

    IMO if the special prosecutor gains a conviction here then it’s only logical to say that Norm W. and/or Bill Lee are either racially biased, openly corrupt or grossly incompetent, or some combination thereof.

    But if my son were gunned down by a loser like GZ, I know I could do worse than Serino or Singleton on the street or in the dark alley, as it were. I see them as working class heros and the product of the department’s budget and training and leadership, frankly. (or lack thereof.)

    The biggest respect we could show to all parties is to wait for the trial and hope for an impartial jury, a competent defense and an honest prosecutor to present the evidence well. Given that, we’ll see justice done.

    (sorry for the lengthly reply. Love this blog.)

    • You could be right about Serino, but I got the impression he was trying too hard to help Zimmerman say the “right” things to avoid being charged.

      I will give him credit for giving Zimmerman enough rope to hang himself, which is exactly what he did.

      I also will give Serino credit for realizing when the wind started blowing from a different direction. He adjusted while others did not and his timely adjustment saved his job.

      • jd says:

        Well, that’s just it, huh? Without a credible outside investigation into Wolfinger and the SPD, we’re all left pondering the tea leaves at the bottom of the cup.

        I’m starting to settle in to a one size fits all mantra regarding this case: Many things are possible; what GZ claims is not possible. (The rest is just the lemon next to the pie.)

        I just wrote this over at bcc concluding a similar point:

        “I can’t honestly say George’s statements alone prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but Serino and Singleton’s work in the first 48 hours alone establishes fully that he lacks any credibility in the matter. The break in the case they needed turned out to be Dee Dee and the phone call she was on, but Serino and Singleton were HOPING the break would come with a solid eyewitness. The matter got “out of hand” and out of their direct control after that, and truthfully is a bit of a moot point given that the case was taken over by the special prosecutor. But it’s frustrating not knowing what really went on behind the initial investigation.”

        Thanks again Prof for your insights and opinions. “Time wounds all heels,” I guess and we’ll see how this all comes out in the wash someday.

      • Dennis says:

        I also agree that Serino didn’t do a very good job at interrogating Zimmerman. I have heard Serino was the only one that wanted him charged with manslaughter at the minimum. Do you know if this is true?

    • leander22 says:

      jd, Malisha and me were struggling over Serino too for quite some time. Or I was or maybe still am less critical of him that she seemed. I agree with you that Singleton and Serino did solid interrogations. Obviously it would have been hard for anyone to lure GZ out from inside the castle of his story. And at least he tried to have him charged.

      But as you say, Serino made quite a few mistakes and he was in charge. He must have immediately learned about George’s earlier NE call. Why didn’t he let his officers check were GZ’s car was parked? Why didn’t he order another officer to play Trayvon during the reenactment? Who was the guy on the wheel next to George at that event, who gave George a little hint at Taaffe’s house that George eagerly picks up? (calming down considerably after, it felt to me) Did Serino choose him? If not, who? Obviously the seeming disinterest in Trayvon’s cell phone call record. …

      Concerning this:
      He also committed some of the most egregious errors when he told witnesses at the scene that the police had identified Zimmerman as the person who screamed for help.

      If he said that after they made their statements, I think I wouldn’t put too much stress on and that, personally. I don’t know Serino or his motives. From the top of my head. As a witness I would have felt guilty: Why didn’t I react earlier, why didn’t I go out and see if I could do something. Take a cell phone call 911 on the way? It could have meant something like: don’t blame yourself, don’t feel guilty. Strictly in hindsight you can’t change events anymore. Or alternatively he wasn’t aware at that point and simply believed what the officers on the scene told him. …

      • leander22 says:

        him thatn she seemed

        I don’t remember exactly, but I wouldn’t be surprised if “my friend” Jeralyn Merrit was pleased that he lost his former job, and was somehow downgraded. She criticized the press but in this case she picked up infos eagerly.

        Was there ever an official statement that he gave information to the press? Was there ever an official statement why he was sent on night patrol? If so, I may not have completely trusted it.

      • aussie says:

        It was in response to a witness (18??) who was feeling miserable about not having gone to help, maybe that would have changed the outcome. The way Serino said “it was the other guy screaming, the one who survived” came across to me as a clearcut attempt at making the witness feel less guilty, NOT as a statement of fact.

        It’s true this “Z called for help” ended up in a written report, too, one of the earliest ones.

      • leander22 says:

        aussie, I realized I was babbling. So he is the origin of trying to make witnesses change their story. There is of course Serino’s story about Tracy Martin. Who, he wrote, said, no it wasn’t his son crying for help. Tracy claims this isn’t true.

        But strictly I wondered before the peculiar cry reenactment by GZ, would I really recognize the scream of my brother? After I heard it I was more sure I would. How many of us have heard their siblings cry like that?

      • princss6 says:

        Revisit W18’s call to 911, IIRC, while still on the phone with 911, she was told that the person screaming was the one who survived.

      • leander22 says:

        princss6 says:
        November 4, 2012 at 9:47 am

        Revisit W18′s call to 911, IIRC, while still on the phone with 911, she was told that the person screaming was the one who survived.

        but that is not Serino. I did revisit,. Strictly her call, never mind how hysterical she is, Jeralyn reduced her to the hysterical teacher, shows she indeed could distinguish between the voice of an older man and a boy, since she later talks about a “boy”. Notice she talks about a boy before she knew who had been shot.. Would Trayvon on the ground look “boyish” from her distance? I doubt considering his seize.

        Anyway, Serino does not suggest anything to her during his interview.

      • Sleuth says:

        @leander22

        “…Was there ever an official statement that he gave information to the press? Was there ever an official statement why he was sent on night patrol? If so, I may not have completely trusted it.”

        I’m not sure by what you mean by “official”, but here are some statements made by Serino to FDLE, etc. regarding why he filed the capias.

        http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html

  10. rachael says:

    “How ironic is it that the evidence you seek to exculpate George Zimmerman instead will reveal the internal corruption within the SPD and the Seminole County State’s Attorney’s Office that was responsible for the decision not to charge Zimmerman for murdering
    just another anonymous Black trouble-maker.”

    Why is that, as obvious as it is, not understood by “them?”

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      It would be comic if this case were not so tragic and outrageous. Mr. O’Mara’s logic is along the lines of “The SPD tried to say I wasn’t responsible for that boy’s death, but that’s so corrupt, that I can’t be held responsible.”

      Yeah, right.

      • racerrodig says:

        The same Moron O’ Mara who said it’s undisputed his client had a broken nose……that Moron O’ Mara ??

      • Jun says:

        Omara has nothing but George will not plead out so he has to stay there and somehow show he believes his client. Omara acts like we have not all seen his SPD high definition pics from that night. His nose doesnt look broken. Even if it was, it doesnt mean George acted in self defense because his broken nose could have very well been self defense action from Trayvon Martin. Either way, his nose was never broken and I am surprised it doesnt grow like Pinnochio the way he lies so much

    • racerrodig says:

      Hell….they still don’t understand what “…we don’t need you to do that…” actually means nor do they understand the hearsay laws which clearly mean he must testify at trial or the words “self defense” can’t be used.

      The bottom line is that Z did what every one of those racist bastards (pardon my French) wishes he could do. Need I even say the words.

  11. Malisha says:

    Not that opinions held by the various police officers are or can be admissible evidence, by the way. All the police can do is testify as to what they saw, what they witnessed, what they found, what they did. NOBODY wants their opinion because opinions are for:

    1. Expert witnesses if there is foundation laid for their opinions and if they qualify; and

    2. The jurors (or judge, if the defense does not want a jury).

    If every one of the police witnesses who was on the scene is willing to perjure himself and testify that, for instance:

    “I saw Trayvon Martin come out of the bushes and attack George Zimmerman and beat him for about a minute while George screamed for help but I couldn’t help him…”

    or

    “I personally moved the shell casing and the body of the deceased so it would look like he wasn’t beating up George at the time he got shot…”

    or

    “I personally cleaned up all the blood from George and all George’s DNA from the body of the deceased before the autopsy…”

    then maybe what the police chose to do in the next two to four weeks will become more relevant, but as it is now, there’s nothing in that field for O’Mara to plow. His efforts are all for “show” — for the same show he was trying to play out on Hannity. Only George ain’t a great actor, so O’Mara even failed on that count. I think even Humphrey Bogart couldn’t have pulled off what O’Mara thought would happen at the Hannity interview. I think he is misunderestimating again, when it comes to his hope for what he can get to happen in the courtroom.

  12. Malisha says:

    I note that in the article showing that Robert Junior says he does not come from a family of racists, he says that his mommy now gives the world the benefit of her wisdom, saying: “Quoting his mother, Robert Zimmerman Jr. said his brother’s case — which is scheduled to go to trial in June — should revolve around his actions, not racism.”

    Fine by me. He killed an unarmed kid after showing his depraved attitude by cursing, denigrating and stalking the kid. Murder-2. Let’s not call it “racist Murder-2″ because that wouldn’t be right.

    By the way, George’s family IS a family of racists.
    na na na na naaaa na. :!:

    • jm says:

      Malisha says: “Quoting his mother, Robert Zimmerman Jr. said his brother’s case — which is scheduled to go to trial in June — should revolve around his actions, not racism.”

      I think they are all protesting too much on this racism issue which makes me suspect they know what is coming next, a hate crime charge.

      Did RZ Jr and Mama Z actually listen to the NEN where GZ profiled black males generally speaking and not specific to Trayvon Martin?

      I am beginning to despise the Zimmerman family as much as I despise GZ. They are both arrogant and stupid.

      • Xena says:

        I think they are all protesting too much on this racism issue which makes me suspect they know what is coming next, a hate crime charge.

        It might be deeper than that and at least start with Taaffe’s and Noah Caraker’s plan to harass Blacks into moving out of Retreat at Twin Lakes, which may be in violation of the federal Fair Housing Act. GZ became part of that plan by doing their dirty work by profiling in emails to residents, terrorizing children, and letting at least one Black family know that he carried a gun.

      • racerrodig says:

        I keep saying “They are more hateable” every day….Any argument ??

      • Jun says:

        That is why I am hoping there is only a small smidgen on Trayvon of bad so that the prosecution can go open season on George’s character, which includes his terrorizing of kids.

    • Jun says:

      The Zimmermans are obviously racist and I dont know why RZ Jr is vehemently trying to deny it. My only conclusion is the FBI & DOJ are closing in and he tryna save his brother from the death penalty.

      1) Robert Sr. has stated that George would do the same to Asians as he did to Trayvon, if Asians were who he suspected. That shows that George generalizes and stereotypes people on race.

      2) Robert Jr. repeatedly targets everyone that is black that has spoken about this case, even though people of all races have spoken out about the case in support of investigation and charges, which includes Obama, Crump, Natalie Jackson, Parks, Sharpton, etc. Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush, Clay Aiken, and numerous white people, Asian people, Latino people have spoken out against Zimmerman, yet none of them are attacked. This shows to me Robert doesnt like black people and neither does his family.

      3) Robert Jr. repeatedly brings up race when it was not even mentioned and a prime example is when he went on the Young Turks

      4) Both Robert Jr. & Sr. have vehemently supported the Conservative Tinfoil Hat, a crazy right wing racist and bigoted website. They both associate with those folks and claim it is a credible source of information (BIG HUGE LAUGH AT THAT NONSENSE)

      5) The whole Zimmerman KKKlan act like black people have no rights hence them getting angry at justice being brought for a black kid who was terrorized and targeted, stalked, chased, pursued, attacked, and killed, and threatening action against people who are asking for justice.

      All I can say is, if you are racist and hateful, be honest with yourself. You aint gotta lie to kick it. If you racist then be racist. Dont lie to yourself and everyone else because people can see through their BS.

    • racerrodig says:

      I’ll second this, that’s for sure. Lying racist’s and not very good at the lying part.

      • Malisha says:

        They don’t HAVE to be good at lying, because they believe they can always identify the people they need to lie in front of. See, if they want to talk in racist ways about Blacks, they can generally tell who is Black so they restrain themselves in their presence. Oldest trick in the book. People who can pass (some Jews, many gays, etc.) are well aware of this tendency. Racists, etc. will be going on and on about their hated targets until — uh oh — they find out they’re in the presence of one of them. I laugh every time. I love saying, “I’m a Jew but I hear you loud and clear.” The real sentence reads, “I’m a Jew AND I hear you loud and clear.” But when I say it the other way, using the word “but,” it’s lots of fun seeing them backpedal and try to drive out of their dead end, backwards and in a hurry.

  13. princss6 says:

    The ironies of all ironies – George Zimmerman seeks to get off by exploiting the corrupt forces that deem black life so meaningless as to let a man such as himself out of the station that night.

    I don’t know if there is a word for the parasitic behavior of George Zimmerman in that he uses real oppression once again (Sherman Ware and his vendetta against cops) and now to escape culpability. Whatever it is called, karma see right through it!

    • rachael says:

      “The ironies of all ironies – George Zimmerman seeks to get off by exploiting the corrupt forces that deem black life so meaningless as to let a man such as himself out of the station that night.”

      No kidding.

  14. Malisha says:

    Rachael, I think the reason it is not “obvious to them” that showing the corruption is not a good murder defense (etc.) can be answered with one word: ARROGANCE.

    Folks who gather enough power to commit, or excuse, murder, on a routine basis (after all, we do not know how many murderers the SPD has blessed and released without charging them over the years; this case came to our attention because Martin and Fulton could not be intimidated or disempowered and they got massive help) become quite arrogant. I believe this serves them well and they get away with everything 99% of the time. Like predatory pedophiles, they can usually figure out where NOT to practice their criminal conduct. I have seen interviews of child molesters from behind the prison walls, once it is no longer within their power to deny and escape punishment for their conduct, and they usually say the same thing: They had ways to know when they could get away with their behavior, and ways to figure it wouldn’t be safe to try. One guy said he had molested 307 kids under the age of 8 before he got caught for molesting ONE single six-year-old. He said, “I picked on the wrong kid that time; I don’t know, somehow I figured him for a kid who stays quiet but he wasn’t.”

    I think the folks in the Sanford Police Department probably thought they had the whole Trayvon Martin thing sewed up and hushed up, and thought telling Tracy Martin that George was “squeaky clean” would work and there would be no further investigation. They ran into an oops :oops: when the thing got bigger and bigger and more and more unstoppable. It was a big surprise to them. They may be in for another one.

    After resolution of this criminal case against GZ, if the DOJ is NOT investigating the corruption of the SPD, it will be time for a massive nation-wide effort to make sure they DO SO and do so vigorously. We cannot afford to have people like that “protecting us.”

    • Jun says:

      That is the problem with lying – when people lie, they have to keep lying to keep the original lie intact and thus it becomes bigger and bigger…

      But most important is what Dale Gilbreath stated at the first bond hearing and the meat and bones of the case. Zimmerman cant change many things and him trying to wash off evidence that night is not gonna work.

      • racerrodig says:

        “That is the problem with lying – when people lie, they have to keep lying to keep the original lie intact and thus it becomes bigger and bigger…”

        As my grandfather told me “The truth never changes…..the lie always morphs” Nothing could be more accurate here. He also said that if 2 people are in an elevator and one of them farts……
        …..they all know who did it. Hey George…..man do you stink !

      • Jun says:

        Well Racerodig

        Your grandfather is a wise man and a funny one at that. Great way to put it LOL

    • jd says:

      The time to push for a DoJ house cleaning of the SPD sadly has come and gone, I am afraid. The feds were threatening to go that far, but when Corey was appointed the groundswell was calmed.

      They ousted the chief, and GZ fasces a trial, both of which are huge steps towards justice but unless and until there is a whole lot of sunshine brought down on the SPD we can’t know if they cut off the head of the snake or just lost the tail of the lizard.

      I hate to even imagine it, but if GZ were to be acquitted perhaps the anger and frustration would be enough to restart the process in a more top to bottom fashion, but that remains to be seen. I think GZ will go to prison and only a part of the people paying attention will learn a lesson and make changes.

      The fact that Wolfinger will quietly exit stage right without ever facing a public inquiry really gets me upset.

      You can’t push a chain, my grandfather always said. It takes leadership and opportunity to make grand changes to society. One dirtbag going to prison is a step in the right direction, but it’s hardly the sea change that is called for.

  15. Malisha says:

    BTW, I think Serino was telling the witness that the “help screamer” was the survivor of the encounter because although he is smart, he is no Einstein. He felt sorry for the woman and wanted her to know that she did not abandon her duty toward humanity to assist someone being killed; he thought saying to her that the person appealing to her for help had lived would ease her conscience. At least I like to give him the benefit of the doubt in that respect. He felt bad about the thing as it was happening and I think he felt sympathy for this woman who felt guilty.

    Remember George told him that he was not following Trayvon, just going in the same direction? Serino chuckles inadvertently and says, “That’s FOLLOWING.”

    • I am not sympathetic about this issue. Serino is a trained police officer and he knew or should have known that correcting an eyewitness in a homicide investigation is unacceptable and there are no exceptions to that rule.

      • Malisha says:

        OK, I’ll downgrade the “pass” I gave Serino on that one from a “pass” to a “mitigating circumstance.” I find Serino to be a peculiar and mysterious person in my analysis of what happened. HE DID KNOW that George committed murder. Of course, so did all the others, but Serino, alone among the others, was saying some relatively logical and intelligent things. I can understand that he was protecting his own job, his pension, and so forth, but I cannot figure out much more than that. I could think that he was acting as an “undercover honest cop” in a snakepit when he admitted to Tracy Martin that he did not believe Zimmerman’s story. But he also talked over George at times when if George were not interrupted, he would have been making some pretty significant admissions. I just can’t figure it out and that frustrates me.

        Professor, can a person just FOIA the FBI file to see if they are or are not tasked with investigating the SPD? If they aren’t, they certainly should be!

      • Xena says:

        I agree Professor. There were times it looked like Singleton was leading to put GZ’s back to the wall, and Serino interrupted her. It also makes me suspicious that in just 2 days after GZ killed Trayvon, Serino would tell him that they had to explain his actions to the community, causing me to wonder if Serino had received a directive to get excuses and explanations to support GZ’s self-defense claim.

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, about having to explain it to the community, as you call it, I think I think I know what you mean, but have never read it as him having received instructions. It felt much more like he tried to make clear to him that what he has done was serious and would cause a serious uproar in the community. And he was right after all.

        If you could find the other passage you allude to easily, where he interrupted Singleton, I’d appreciate a hint during what interview and at what point. I don’t remember that at all. Maybe I have to listen to it again.

        • Xena says:

          Xena, about having to explain it to the community, as you call it,

          Not as I call it — what Serino said.

          If you could find the other passage you allude to easily, where he interrupted Singleton, I’d appreciate a hint during what interview and at what point.

          If you haven’t listened to GZ’s interviews and read discovery docs, then I suggest you do so ASAP in order to keep up here. It’s the recorded interview with Serino and Singleton, and you can find it on the manybuddies YouTube Channel and on axiomanesia. In another post on this blog I embedded it, but don’t remember the title of the post now. It’s long vid so I hesitate posting it again.

      • Looolooo says:

        Xena
        I agree that Serino intentionally interrupted, and prevented GZ from volunteering more self incriminating statements on more than one occassion. I’ve often wondered that if Singleton had been left alone, would she have gotten at least a partial confession out of GZ?

        • Xena says:

          I’ve often wondered that if Singleton had been left alone, would she have gotten at least a partial confession out of GZ?

          Singleton was calling GZ out on his lies and omissions. She presented in a personal way; i.e., “When I asked …. you told me …” Had she had GZ alone, and based on what we know about GZ, he would have probably called her the “C” word, and confessed but in a round about way, such as, “Yeah. So what are you going to do about it?”

      • I agree professor. A professional should not taunt a witnesses account just to make them feel better. Hopefully I’m not comparing apples and oranges, but that’s like the police going to make a death notification to a family and instead saying the member may still be alive. The truth is the truth. His statement to her could have changed her entire perspective and thus her testimony upon the stand and hence, true justice being served. He was wrong and inexcusable to do so!

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, I have listened to them all. But I have not in any way analyzed them carefully. To the initial Serino/Singleton interviews I listened twice. But strictly I have earphones now, the quality is not that good. There more I think about it, the more I seem to remember that there was in fact a passage where I couldn’t understand since they spoke at the same time.

        All I remember at this point is that Singleton was much more carefully concentrated on GZ’s exact movements on the evening then Serino was. But at least he suggested there should be a motive for Trayvon attacking him. There surely should be.

        I’ll listen to them again, with paying attention to what you suggest.

        Come to think of it, I saw a photo of the press conference with Serino sitting next to Lee, and for whatever reason, I read his expression as critical. Maybe that is the source next to his suggesting to charge him that made me slightly biased towards him.

        But there must be a reason, why he was demoted. But that’s exactly what the Zimmerman support base celebrated since he from their perspective their hero shouldn’t have been charged at all.

      • Xena says:

        But there must be a reason, why he was demoted.

        It was rumored that Serino released the vid of GZ arriving in the police station as a response to Papa Zim’s statements to the media that made it sound as though GZ was beaten within an inch of his life. That video certainly did question whether the injuries were life-threatening, and his clothes not being disarrayed questioned whether he had been in a fight for his life.

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, yes according to a tweet by Matt Gutman. Which seems to confirm it. Odd again, the video served to challenge Robert Zimmerman’s story that his son had been facing dead that night.

        Image from Jeralyn’s response.

        I wish I knew what specific law a Florida officer acts on. Is it part of the criminal code. We have specific laws for police, translated it would be called police law.

      • leander22 says:

        sh*** happens.

        facing death of course.

      • leander22 says:

        You know what, Xena, the more I think about it, the more trails of my memory surface that in fact irritated me in his interview.

        At one point he points out to GZ what Trayvon was wearing, if he was wearing black, and that this iwould have been the correct profile. It irritated me, since that is what I wear myself most of the time. He does in fact admit that their is profiling of blacks going on inside SPD but that GZ got it wrong.

        Hmm?? …

        • Xena says:

          It irritated me, since that is what I wear myself most of the time. He does in fact admit that their is profiling of blacks going on inside SPD but that GZ got it wrong. Hmm?? …

          IMO, Serino was taking a stab at GZ’s lack of training to profile. The “goons” wore black on black on black. Trayvon wore a dark grey hoodie, light colored pants, and white shoes, so GZ profiled him wrongfully as suspicious and a possible burglar. The ONLY thing about Trayvon that could be profiled as a “goon” was the color of his skin.

      • I agree professor. A professional should not taunt a witnesses account just to make them feel better. Hopefully I’m not comparing apples and oranges, but that’s like the police going to make a death notification to a family and instead saying the member may still be alive. The truth is the truth. His statement to her could have changed her entire perspective and thus her testimony upon the stand and hence, true justice being served. He was wrong and inexcusable to do so!

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, I am almost through the whole series, and I have to admit I am back to my initial impression. The thing that made me hesitant about going back to listen to it again is the odd high level of noise distractions in Recording #4. I wish I had tapes were I could hear everything GZ said much more precisely.

        I also so far did not register that Serino interrupts Singleton, the only thing I registered with that in mind, is that at one point he stops when he realizes Singleton starts to ask at the same time.

        I am almost through, I am here at: 10:44 precisely.

        Recording #6 – Detective Serino’s Interview With George Zimmerman – Part 3 (2/29/2012)>Recording #6 – Detective Serino’s Interview With George Zimmerman – Part 3 (2/29/2012)>

        At 07:44 this happens:

        Serino asks GZ about the f***ing coons, they are listening to his “NEN” call, Zimmerman answers it was punks, Serino under his breath: it wasn’t fucking punks. (Strictly, I don’t feel we have to hide this type contents over here)

        Seems, Serino just like me trusts his ears too. I wonder what would say about Diwataman’s “visual” analysis.

        So I am back, I can’t help but are more close to liking Serino than hating him.

      • leander22 says:

        Ok, I have got the passage, you may have in mind. It is recording #6 at about 15:10. Singleton starts and Serino interferes but not to stop Serino, quite the opposite, they are challenging them to respond to the same passage of the recording.

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, this by the way caught my attention, and I use the term narrative, since I studied literature.

        If you go to the start of the reenactment, if my old mind still works, he initially tried to start with the same narrative he knew he already had written down, at least he mentioned his wife. But then he got a verbal signal from the guy at the wheel, who at that point acts as a prompter, if you allow me to use stage language. This makes him give up the made up tale in his mind, and he concentrates on his “narrative” about why Trayvon “seemed suspicious” no matter how bad and unbelievable it is. Maybe it is, maybe in spite of the fact Trayvon entered there for the first time. Maybe the boys he played football with never told him that was the best way to enter. And if so, he in fact he first had to orientate himself, how do I get back from here.

        Notice not only seemed Trayvon suspicious to GZ he also lingered suspiciously in a locality that must have been rather fresh on Zimmerman’s mind, but also would surface for any officer studying his call history as a rather recent event.

        I would need to mirror my laptop back to the stage of laptop in early August, and I hesitate to do, not only since it will take hours of Window updates but also since I have other urgent things to do, but I was obsessed with his tales/stories/narratives, and to me it felt this part was meant to be as a distraction lure for SPD police officers: Look here, the guy I watched there was caught only some days later. He acknowledges the roofers, but did Sandy, who he pestered about information concerning arrests, ever send him a mugshot of the one arrested? Is George the type that went up to the roofers and asked them for their description? To make sure he looked at least the same? Is he the type of person that would hesitate to jump to conclusions? Or is he more someone that would like to be a hero?

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, I made many mistakes by cutting and pasting to get my own obsessions with this case over. It resulted in bad grammar. I hope you understand anyway, what I tried to tell you.

        I wanted to add something that felt as it it was missing. But suddenly the whole space in my mind is occupied by embarrassment about my missing proofreading. My going back and forth in checking–did I get my point over? — without caring a bit about grammatical coherence.

      • Sleuth says:

        Hi Professor,

        Just lovin’ your blog.

        I couldn’t agree more. I’m not a lawyer, and certainly don’t play one on T.V., (LOL) but I thought what Serino did to witnesses was considered “obstruction of justice” or something similar to that.

        The confessed murderer knew the residents heard Trayvon’s screams and yells, and now that he had killed him, he could claim them as his own, and did so by immediately telling Officer Timothy Smith, “I was yelling for help but nobody would come help me”.

        Officer Smith apparently relayed this information to the communications/dispatch center, otherwise, how else could a 9-1-1 dispatcher tell the hysterical former teacher, “the one yelling is still alive and didn’t die”? Officer Smith’s actions are very suspicious.

        I was hailing Serino as a person of integrity until evidence started being released. I just couldn’t figure out why he would badger witnesses and refute their statements by trying to convince them that Trayvon Martin was not the person yelling and screaming for help.

        Serino said he did not have a enough evidence at the time to file charges beyond manslaughter, yet he found the time to falsely contradict witnesses about their sworn statements.

        Even the confessed murderer, who after listening to his own call to the NEN, stated those were not his screams and yells in the background, said he didn’t recognize them but Serino tries to convince witnesses they were the screams and yells of the confessed murderer.

        Then my suspicions were further confirmed when Serino decided to blame his decision to file the capias on African Americans in the SPD, rather than the fact that an unarmed child had been murdered.

        He accused Sgt. Arthur Barnes, officers Trekelle Perkins, and Rebecca Villalona (who is married to an African American) of “pressuring” him to file charges.

        He even accused Tracey Martin of having some privileged relationship with Sgt. Barnes who happens to be African American. Yet, there are those who would continue to say race has nothing to do with this case.

        If I recall correctly, Officer Perkins is the officer who received the anonymous call from the Zimmerman’s female cousin who accused the confessed murderer of molesting her over a period of years and the family of being racists.

        Of the two detectives initially assigned to the murder investigation, I believe Doris Singleton was far more credible and professional.

        Perhaps that’s due in large part to her background in narcotics which has probably exposed her to all sorts of psychiatric phenomenon. Kudos to her.

        Keep up the excellent work professor!

        http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html

      • leander22 says:

        Sleuth: how else could a 9-1-1 dispatcher tell the hysterical former teacher, “the one yelling is still alive and didn’t die”? Officer Smith’s actions are very suspicious.

        LeaNder: I am a fan of precision, that’s not what the dispatcher says. He said this:

        07:31-43

        “From what I can see we possibly have the person that is responsible. So you don’t need to worry about that now”

        He has to start at least twice, maybe three times. Since the woman is absolutely under shock. She may well be the most human of all witnesses, even if some call her hysterical.

      • leander22 says:

        Good article by Frances Robles, I forgot about Serino’s testimony. I have to take a look at that again.

        But Frances Robles was also the lady that initially juxtaposed protests with school records. A hint defense is now following., She was the journalist that broke the story with the “jewelery” and the “screwdriver” found in Trayvon’s bag. Eagerly picked up in scenarios about Trayvon hiding his loot somewhere and than returning to attack GZ.

  16. Jun says:

    Personally, I feel it is very clear from the witnesses and the recording that it is Trayvon Martin screaming for help.

    1) It sounds like a kid
    2) It doesnt sound like George nor match his voice samples
    3) It doesnt match George’s story
    4) One of the witnesses stated they heard the screaming of NO NO NO or Yo Yo Yo and then bang, the screaming ended. That to me says that the person screaming was in danger and was silenced with the gun shot hence the danger was of imminent death by gun shot
    5) A few of the witnesses have identified that it sounds like a kid
    6) One of the witnesses stated why did George have to shoot the kid, a young boy. That to me says that George was in no danger hence he would not be screaming. She also states that the person screaming was shot.
    7) Zimmerman and his family have no credibility, so both Roberts’ lies will not fly compared to the testimony of Sybrina because when its over and done with, both Roberts will have lied to the public and in court. Deedee can get on the stand and Tracy too, as well as the brother of Trayvon and identify Trayvon. Considering the other evidence it will be concluded the defense is lying and the truth lies with the state.

    • Xena says:

      @Jun. That 911 call captured GZ’s voice in the background cursing at Trayvon WHILE Trayvon is screaming. I can hear GZ’s voice TALKING and so can others — and that’s on the redacted recording. At immunity and/or trial, I am sure that the State will present the unredacted version, and that GZ’s voice will be distinguished as the person cursing while Trayvon is screaming out in pain and for help.

      It was Trayvon who cried “I’m begging you” that was captured on that call. Not once did GZ state that he said those words, neither cried out in pain.

      Singleton pinned GZ down — he could not point out when he was purportedly smothered because the cries continued and only ended with the gunshot.

      GZ is a pitiful excuse for a human being, and we may yet see his demise before the immunity hearing.

      • gblock says:

        I agree with you, Xena. I hope that for the trial, the recording will be enhanced enough that everyone can hear GZ’s voice clearly, because it is really hard to believe that the same person could be both talking and screaming.

        • Xena says:

          I hope that for the trial, the recording will be enhanced enough that everyone can hear GZ’s voice clearly, because it is really hard to believe that the same person could be both talking and screaming.

          The tape was given to the FBI for enhancement. Even without enhancement, myself and others can hear GZ’s voice cursing at Trayvon while Trayvon is screaming. If Jeremy should be a witness he can be asked if he too heard GZ talking to Trayvon.

  17. EveryOneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Everyone in that Sanford police department are corrupt, that’s Florida!
    RIP Trayvon

  18. Colin Black says:

    M o M told us as did the Zimm family that this is not about race an Juniors latest inane tweets that the Zimm family deserve there day an say in court…Well Junior both ShelLIE an George are heading towards plenty days in court to have there say…So far your bro Georgie Porgie Sugar an PIE Kissed his Cuz an made her CRY,,Has refused to speak up in court unless he is given a pass to speak without the nasty prosecution getting to cross exam him,,M o M also stated he did not want to try this case outside a court of law at trialhis client an he will exonerate him the evidence will likely back him up?An yet from the begining he an the Zimms have agresively utilised the media at any an every level to spin there version of altered events / reality…M o M is even bragging in court of how right on he is to run this massive counter Attack on everything is down to malisous statements by Crump an proffesinoll; image consutants an PR team to slander his client GZ as a racist stalking child killer with photos of a 13 year old Trayvon Martin to misslead the public that he executed a chilld.So he claims gloves are of an anything he can do to level the playing feild for his cleint is not only ethicall.Its actually nessesery thease days with the inter net an in years to come attorneys not utiliseing the web to defend his clients could face incompantancy claims..

    • racerrodig says:

      I say Frank “The Racist Tank” is RZ jr’s Tweets writer…..

    • Jun says:

      The reason they have to spin is because the evidence doesnt support George, so they have to force their view on people. Its fairly obvious to anyone that George targeted this kid, pursued him, stalked him, terrorized him, and killed him hence murder 2.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Jun i really want to know what makes these people tick. Denial is nice for a vacation, but long term stays are bad for one’s mental health.
        Conviction new reactions
        -SheLie: If she doesn’t get actual time – depression after realizing she has to move back in with her mother(if she hasn’t already)
        RZ jr – many many profanity laden twitter rants about how the jury was rigged, didn’t pay attention to the “evidence” etc
        RZ sr – health affected

        Mommy dearest – IF she’s at court dramatic swoon
        GZ – He’s gonna loose his shit, i hope the bailiffs don’t go easy on him
        Trayvon’s family – some cheering, but otherwise well behaved.
        Frank – pours himself into another bottle racks up another DUI
        O’Money – did his best, obligatory appeal comment and walks off to go bathe the funk of the case off him.

      • Jun says:

        I actually dont know how to answer that. I dont know why George was treated as such by some of the officers in the beginning or even by some of his cult. There is definite probable cause since the beginning for murder. It also sounded like they were trying to force testimony on witnesses because that did not sound like George screaming, and I am sure most witnesses are going to attribute them to Trayvon, which is what it is. There’s just no way it matches George at all and by process of elimination, it is definitely Trayvon.

        • I think it was because 1. Osterman (a close friend of George who took him in after murder) use to be on the SPD police force and was close friends with Chief Lee (see LLMPapa’s video of Osterman calling him Billy, not Cheif Lee or even Bill Lee as one not intimate with him would) 2. George’s father was a magistrate judge before and I am sure had connections enough to call Wolfinger and get him involved with the ball rolling to not charge Zimmerman (I saw on MSNBC where the commentators discussing this case said it is very rare that the District Attorney would come down to a crime scene and even more uncommon for a DA to override a police recommendation to charge given they are the ones that do the leg work and investigation and are more able to determin these matters (I can find link if you like) and 3. The SPD had a history of unethical treatment to minorities (Blacks in particular) such as allowing the Black homeless man to be assaulted and their attempt to also brush that under the rug.. so Trayon being murdered (a Black male) coupled with the other two factors I listed were reasons enough to try to protect George. Also a 4th possible reason was the NW program set up by the SPD and they didn’t want their name associated with this mess if the story got out (in which it did) such as if they did a background check on Zimmerman before putting him in such a “powerful” position. SORRY if this is a repeat.. I have been having trouble signing in with logos.

        • I think it was because 1. Osterman (a close friend of George who took him in after murder) use to be on the SPD police force and was close friends with Chief Lee (see LLMPapa’s video of Osterman calling him Billy, not Cheif Lee or even Bill Lee as one not intimate with him would) 2. George’s father was a magistrate judge before and I am sure had connections enough to call Wolfinger and get him involved with the ball rolling to not charge Zimmerman (I saw on MSNBC where the commentators discussing this case said it is very rare that the District Attorney would come down to a crime scene and even more uncommon for a DA to override a police recommendation to charge given they are the ones that do the leg work and investigation and are more able to determin these matters (I can find link if you like) and 3. The SPD had a history of unethical treatment to minorities (Blacks in particular) such as allowing the Black homeless man to be assaulted and their attempt to also brush that under the rug.. so Trayon being murdered (a Black male) coupled with the other two factors I listed were reasons enough to try to protect George. Also a 4th possible reason was the NW program set up by the SPD and they didn’t want their name associated with this mess if the story got out (in which it did) such as if they did a background check on Zimmerman before putting him in such a “powerful” position. Please forgive me if this was posted several times… I had trouble logging in with the logs, so I had to open a Word Press account instead and try posting it again!

      • I think it was because 1. Osterman (a close friend of George who took him in after murder) use to be on the SPD police force and was close friends with Chief Lee (see LLMPapa’s video of Osterman calling him Billy, not Cheif Lee or even Bill Lee as one not intimate with him would) 2. George’s father was a magistrate judge before and I am sure had connections enough to call Wolfinger and get him involved with the ball rolling to not charge Zimmerman (I saw on MSNBC where the commentators discussing this case said it is very rare that the District Attorney would come down to a crime scene and even more uncommon for a DA to override a police recommendation to charge given they are the ones that do the leg work and investigation and are more able to determin these matters (I can find link if you like) and 3. The SPD had a history of unethical treatment to minorities (Blacks in particular) such as allowing the Black homeless man to be assaulted and their attempt to also brush that under the rug.. so Trayon being murdered (a Black male) coupled with the other two factors I listed were reasons enough to try to protect George. Also a 4th possible reason was the NW program set up by the SPD and they didn’t want their name associated with this mess if the story got out (in which it did) such as if they did a background check on Zimmerman before putting him in such a “powerful” position. Please forgive me if this was posted several times… I had trouble logging in with the logs, so I had to open a Word Press account instead and try posting it again!

  19. LLMPapa says:

    I have NO sympathy for anyone at SPD connected with their predisposed sham of an “investigation”. My reasons are many with some best left unsaid, but I will point out one that I feel is a particularly egregious example.

    In the first doc dump, on page 39:

    This timeline was included in Serino’s report:

    To have conducted an investigation into a time sensitive potential murder case for over two weeks and base their conclusions, in part, on a NEN call’s connection time of 7:11:12 pm instead of the correct time of 7:09:34 pm, is preposterous. I can see no way reasonable to believe this was anything less than a calculated, intentional, effort to camouflage the time and movement problems of the killer of a child.

    As the Professor said above, these are trained police officers. Is it supposed to be believed that a detective in a murder investigation who could read and locate the correct report number on a Seminole County Event Report didn’t notice the FIRST line beneath the digits and see the call’s connection time?

    Remember the line quoted far and wide from the SPD?

    “There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they’re not sure what happened.”

    Add 1 minute and 38 seconds to that “missing” minute and see if a 2 minute and 38 second gap just might seem a bit more important in a crime’s timeline that only spanned about 10 minutes from beginning to gunshot end.

    • Malisha says:

      Good catch!

      Another thing: They wrote down that Zimmerman’s fourteen (14) cries for help (either “help” or “help me”) ended with the gunshot. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!
      Help or Help me shoot this suspect!

      OK, nevermind, I got him. I think.
      (lunge, spread hands, get scared that the police will see me with a gun, holster my gun, stand up, uh…)

    • leander22 says:

      LLMPapa, thanks I may have wondered about this once but forgotten. True, hard to believe that is a mistake.

      I hope you noticed that Amsterdam sent you a link concerning your question about the clubhouse videos.

      I haven’t really studied all the materials there closely by now. But this is interesting.

      Based on this careful analysis.

      Whatever persons or movements you can try to see or not to see feels slightly more problematic to me.

    • leander22 says:

      wrong link:

      I haven’t really studied all the materials there closely by now. But this is interesting.

      Not only interested but, if correct, would be highly important.

      I am really amazed by the work of citizen investigations.

    • racerrodig says:

      I love what you do and everything fits and is logical. My dad having been a cop, (an honest one) I have seen what corruption does.

      All I can say is this guy is more hateable everyday. If I knew how, I’d make a video about that very topic….

  20. gbrbsb says:

    @Malisha
    “I think the folks in the Sanford Police Department probably thought they had the whole Trayvon Martin thing sewed up and hushed up, and thought telling Tracy Martin that George was “squeaky clean” would work and there would be no further investigation”

    Yes, and they surely did not count on Trayvon BEING “squeaky clean”.

    • Jun says:

      Chief Bill Lee is a dumb idiot. Who in their right mind would be okay with a cop coming up to tell them that someone killed their kid and the killer claimed self defense so the Chief let him go.

      • Malisha says:

        Jun, the reason Lee thought that would work is that he naturally feels that Blacks must bow to his superior will. So if he determines that it was their kid who was to blame for the problem, who are THEY to disagree? That’s really how he thinks!

      • Jun says:

        Even before the investigation went ahead, they still had the body, the position of the body, the 911 calls, the scream tape, the George NEN tape, the fact that it was a kid with candy and ice tea while the adult had a gun and a record, it should have been very easy to say that a murder took place, especially after the statements from the defendant. I can understand if they stated that they wanted to do a bit more investigation so they can put him away for good but Bill Lee str8 up did a gong show. They were so pissed at him they wouldnt let him quit, they made sure that he was fired!

      • Jun says:
        November 3, 2012 at 8:04 pm
        Even before the investigation went ahead, they still had the body, the position of the body, the 911 calls, the scream tape, the George NEN tape, the fact that it was a kid with candy and ice tea while the adult had a gun and a record, it should have been very easy to say that a murder took place…..And with all of that they still let him go. So what does that say about them and their investigation. Police coverup. The most disturbing thing to me is that after all of this was beginning to surface, Billy (I mean Chief Lee) didn’t back track, instead he doubled down with his cruel statement during a press conference where he sid “I’m sure Trayvon would have done some things differently that night also.” This is along the same line of the Treehouse or other who say things such as Trayvon deserved to die because he didn’t run home, go straight home, shouldn’t have been at the Retreat because it’s not his home, etc. Basically Chief Lee was saying Trayvon (ALTHOUGH not breaking any laws, there visiting his father, minding his own business, no weapon only ice tea and skittles, even tried to elude Zimmerman) didn’t do all he could do, so essentially he got what he deserved. I read recently that the SPD was trying to throw the media person in charge of press under the bus and blame that person for Chief Lee’s first statements. I don’t agree. I think Chief Lee said exactly what he meant and it has been echoed by others who claim Trayvon deserved to die because he simply didn’t do “some things differently” to live. Unbelievable. Truth is certainly sometimes stranger than fiction. You can’t make some of this stuff up.

      • Jun says: Even before the investigation went ahead, they still had the body, the position of the body, the 911 calls, the scream tape, the George NEN tape, the fact that it was a kid with candy and ice tea while the adult had a gun and a record, it should have been very easy to say that a murder took place…..

        And with all of that they still let him go. So what does that say about them and their investigation. Police coverup. The most disturbing thing to me is that after all of this was beginning to surface, Billy (I mean Chief Lee) didn’t back track, instead he doubled down with his cruel statement during a press conference where he sid “I’m sure Trayvon would have done some things differently that night also.” This is along the same line of the Treehouse or other who say things such as Trayvon deserved to die because he didn’t run home, go straight home, shouldn’t have been at the Retreat because it’s not his home, etc. Basically Chief Lee was saying Trayvon (ALTHOUGH not breaking any laws, there visiting his father, minding his own business, no weapon only ice tea and skittles, even tried to elude Zimmerman) didn’t do all he could do, so essentially he got what he deserved. I read recently that the SPD was trying to throw the media person in charge of press under the bus and blame that person for Chief Lee’s first statements. I don’t agree. I think Chief Lee said exactly what he meant and it has been echoed by others who claim Trayvon deserved to die because he simply didn’t do “some things differently” to live. Unbelievable. Truth is certainly sometimes stranger than fiction. You can’t make some of this stuff up.

      • leander22 says:

        marshalettewise, the person in charge of media at SPD seens ti be David Morgenstern, at least he worked in that function. I had a short exchange with him, he didn’t really tell me anything beyond my own conclusions, I had already arrived at, that GZ had not helped to get anyone arrested, neither were there 4 arrests, as Lelandmanagement RTL witter news suggested on 12 Feb. (the last arrested was arrested with 3 others that were unconnected to the crime, by the way)

        Later I realized that he may generally be in charge for media. He is a special investigator, at least his address block suggested this. If I remember correctly.

        So strictly he doesn’t give out more information than is already out there. I would be surprised if he was thrown under the bus.

        But one of course never knows. Do you have a link. I would be interested.

      • leander22 says:

        Leland Management RTL twitter news or twitter account

        I meant.

        I have to leave.

      • leander22 says:

        thanks, marshalettewise. Now that is the type of reality that no one can better portray than Malisha.

        That’s like the theory of a public relations profs over here, PR can shape public opinion to fit special designs freely just like it wants.

        But strictly, I am not surprised. I looked into Mr. Myers when he got the well paid interim job. Not really surprised.

        A kingdom for that lettter, has anyone any connections. ;) Besides I agree with the people wftv.com interviewed.

        Ridiculous.

      • leander22 says:

        Ok, I know PR wants nothing, since it’s no person, but am also too lazy to translate that guy’s stupid definition again.

    • Malisha says:

      gbr, right.

      What was going through George’s mind as he defended himself from the felonious assault:

      “This guy is probably up to no good; probably a burglar; a thief; a fucking punk; an asshole looking to get away; an MMA expert; a thug; a jewelry thief; a bus driver assaulter; a pepper assaulter; a marijuana residue smoker; a drug addict; a suspect; an incest offender; a disrespecter of women; a…school disciplinary problem; he couldn’t possibly be a person who does not deserve to die, I better kill him, because if the cops get here and he’s not dead yet, they’ll let the asshole get away.”

    • rayvenwolf says:

      @gbr – its a sarcastic play on a Zimmerman defender line. Essentially just because GZ says X then Trayvon MUST have been committing unlawful assault.

      Of course i realized from the start that 99.9% of that spouting said line or any variation were bigoted idiots who without video or eye witness proof otherwise were willing to believe everything GZ said about that night. Conflicting evidence or not.

      Its why its rare for me to post any place by here or justice quest. So many of them are just flat out purposely blind to evidence that does not support his story that it makes me sick to my stomach. Why? Because if GZ was still as he is had shot a white teen of pretty much ANY socioeconomic background they would have called for him to be drawn and quartered.

      But it was just some black kid out “late” someplace he didn’t belong so it good.

      • gbrbsb says:

        You´re right… silly me… LAMOL. I realised later but was just too tired to reply and correct.

        Exactly what I think, IMO race is the basis of this mess, insidious on GZ´s side (would he have reacted the same had it been a white kid… no way) more flagrant by SPD… prime example testing the dead child not the shooter for drugs alcohol, how more biased can you get than that?

  21. Malisha says:

    I do not yet understand why they wouldn’t let Lee step aside, and why he ended up being fired instead. It probably had something to do with the ins and outs of the FBI investigation. I believe Lee took stuff with him when he left, stuff that he wasn’t really allowed to take. I am pretty sure he scrubbed parts of some of the computers.

    • Jun says:

      Too bad he’s an idiot because they still have incriminating emails of him. He probably also doesnt realize that throwing it out in a trash bin on a computer doesnt completely erase the records LOL

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      The inner workings of his firing are unknown to me, but I read that he would not draw a pension if fired, whereas he would if he were allowed to resign(live off Sanford’s benefit plan as provided by its taxpayers of all races).

    • racerrodig says:

      In part and it also has to do with not paying his pension & benefits.

  22. Malisha says:

    I think Lee is essentially more involved in criminality than George is. I’m not saying he’s more responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin. GEORGE IS THE ONE who is responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin. But in terms of long-term original criminal conduct, in my opinion, that’s Lee. And there will be information coming out about that. And O’Mara can’t do anything about it. I don’t understand his squawking right now, but so much remains to be seen.

    On another matter, we should presume that Zimmerman’s family would tell any lies, promote and promulgate any false stories, and act in any way they can that they THINK will protect George from prosecution. The reason is NOT that they believe him. The reason is that they are on his SIDE. They reason backwards, like this:

    George is OURS.
    Therefore he is to be considered INNOCENT of all wrongdoing.
    Anything he did was therefore not to be considered WRONG.
    Killing Trayvon Martin has to therefore be considered RIGHT.
    The only way it was right to kill Trayvon Martin is if he attacked George without any reason other than his own criminality.
    Therefore Trayvon attacked poor innocent George.
    Therefore George had to kill to keep from being killed.
    Therefore George is innocent of all wrongdoing.

    Not only is it circular, it is perverted. But it works for them because they are that kind of family: closed, insular, US AGAINST THEM, and of course, always RIGHT.

    • Jun says:

      They use the same concepts to try and prove their non racism against black people because the have a pic of another black person that they are now claiming is their grandpappy along with their 100’s of black friends including Puff Daddy

      • rachael says:

        Here is an example of their idiocy:

        “…Yes, George’s grandfather was black – on his mother’s side. Which is why calling George a “Racists” – makes NO SENSE AT
        ALL.”

        In other words, saying that George can’t be racist because his grandfather was black (which is bullshit).

        But then another one says:

        “It’s a shame that blacks can never be considered racist or committing hate crimes against whites”

        Yet isn’t that exactly why the first one said that George could not possibly be racist?

      • Jun says:

        What does blacks can or can not be considered racist have anything to do with this case? A grown adult targeted and stalked and chased and pursued and terrorized a kid then killed him. The only issue is whether the killer was racist or not, which there is probable cause to believe. The only thing associated with Trayvon’s behavior that night was of a kid going to the store for candy and ice tea, walking home, and trying to avoid and potentially defend himself against a complete stranger stalking him with ill will.

      • rachael says:

        Honest to God Jun, it was a long time before I even saw any racial implications with regard to this whole thing. All I know is that I have a son. Like you said in a previous post of yours where you said: “a cop coming up to tell them that someone killed their kid and the killer claimed self defense so the Chief let him go” was the issue for me. I never heard about GZ’s previous phone calls, his 911 call or any of the details other than an unarmed kid was shot and the killer said it was self-defense. I just know that if that was my son, I would NOT say – Okay Mr. Police Officer. I’m sure it was self-defense. Thanks for stopping by. HELL no. I would want it investigated and tried. No way would I just let it go because a police officer said so.

        I see the racial implications now, and I will admit I might be more sensitive to them because my son is biracial, but that had nothing to do with it for me initially. A child was shot with only the word of the shooter and that would not be enough for me. I would want to know everything about this person and why they would do or say such a thing.

      • Jun says:

        There’s some really evil people in this world. That is one thing I learned about this case. So much hate.

    • racerrodig says:

      “George is OURS.
      Therefore he is to be considered INNOCENT of all wrongdoing.
      Anything he did was therefore not to be considered WRONG.
      Killing Trayvon Martin has to therefore be considered RIGHT.
      The only way it was right to kill Trayvon Martin is if he attacked George without any reason other than his own criminality.
      Therefore Trayvon attacked poor innocent George.
      Therefore George had to kill to keep from being killed.
      Therefore George is innocent of all wrongdoing.”

      This is, in part, “The Zidiot Nation Charter” Months ago I posted one on Huff ‘n Puff which had some of this worded different. It also includes…..

      Thou shalt not acknowledge any forensic evidence.

      Thou shalt not acknowledge any physical evidence.

      Thou shalt not acknowledge the autopsy report.

      Thou shalt make every reference to Trayvon using the word “Thug” in some way.

      Thou shalt interpret “…traces of THC…” as “…druggie…” in all comments.

      Thou shalt never recognize that Trayvon had any rights in that
      “,,,if Trayvon had just…..run home….been a good boy…..never been suspended…..just answered our glorious hero’s questions……and most important…..had not BRUTALLY ATTACKED our hero.”

      Thou shalt make comments to the effect that Trayvon “…had it coming…”

      Thou shalt make comments to the effect that all members of the Zidiot Nation are overjoyed that there is one less….(insert insult here)

      Thou shalt attack the Martins as horrendous parents in every manner possible.

      Thou shalt Major in the Minors and cause anguish by focusing on Ping Logs, Dee Dee, Crump, the Martins divorce, Corey, every Judge involved, and any issue irregardless of the irrelevance or insignificance.

      Thou shalt alter any statements made by every witness to favor GZ

      Thou shalt not acknowledge our hero’s criminal and / or arrest record.

      Thou shalt deflect all questions posed by any member of Team Trayvon at all costs.

      Thou shalt make derogatory comments about Trayvon with every post.

      Thou shalt insult every member of Team Trayvon until they no longer make comments on any website.

      Thou shalt ignore any previous attorneys quitting the case. Brand them “Losers”

      Thou shalt believe every word our hero says as “The Gospel According to Saint George”

      Thou shalt ignore all reference to our hero’s ability to coerce anyone to take punishment for him.

      Thou shalt not acknowledge that SheLie lied for our hero. She has here own free will.

      Thou shalt make as many comments that our hero is overcharged.

      Thou shalt state he is a hero.

      Thou shalt state he was Pro-Active in fighting crime.

      Thou shalt not acknowledge that our hero spent 7+ years on a 2 year Criminal Justice class and simply state……”he was busy”

      Thou shalt believe everything Mark O’ Mara tells us.

      Thou shalt never acknowledge our hero’s chronic under and unemployment record. Interpret this as “he was busy fighting crime”

      I’m sure there are some amendments to this Charter, but for the most part……

  23. Malisha says:

    Rachael, you HAVE TO get the award this year for exposing wacko thinking. What should the award be called? The EWT award?

  24. Thank you for this post Professor. This confirms my previous post where I said it was weird to me that BLDR said in court during the gag order hearing that the SPD did a great job investigating this case. Omara is going to try to use the SPD to claim that there was not justification to charge Zimmerman. Ok, so why would BLDR backup that premise? If BLDR is agreeing saying they did a good job, then BLDR also must in unspoken words agree that their decision to not charge Zimmerman was good. To clarify, if Omara is saying the jury should focus on the SPD and their decision to not charge after their investigation, why would BLDR (instead of exposing the sloppy work just as you just did Professor) commend their work in open court. Also, Omara has added the SPD players to his witness list. I thought it was the other side’s job to discredit the other’s witnesses… but not BLDR, he has already praised them. That was my point about his loyalty being to the SPD and their allies. Yes, I want JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON and I am 100% behind the prosecution, but I will not support any cover up on any side and I feel it is the prosecutor’s job to win their case regardless who (SPD) has to go down to do it. I think BLDR made a grave mistake and showed that the SPD and it’s protection from exposure of the mistakes they did are more important than representing Trayvon Martin entirely. I said that I would try to keep my pessimistic thoughts to myself, but Professor’s post confirmed I had every right to think with the mindset I had on the other post.

    • Malisha says:

      BDLR saying the SPD did a great investigation is boilerplate; all functionaries of the system support all other agencies within the system, all the time, always, 100% bar none, ever. This is more than “loyalty” — it is self-protection. YOU CAN BET that everywhere within a corrupt system, everybody has something on everybody else.

      • I concur Malisha!!!! You summed it up perfectly!!! Kudos to the whistleblowers who expose such corruption.

      • Looolooo says:

        Malisha
        I’m so very sad to have to agree with you 100% on this one. But I’m still hanging on to my hope that justice will prevail and Pandora will remain in her box.

      • Jun says:

        Maybe Bernie was just talking about certain members of the SPD, as the chief assigned for the time being made his recommendations on who to fire and the FBI is not finished with their work yet. I agree that some members of the SPD may have done questionable things but I think in all Singleton and Serino saw the light in the end but were overthrown by Chief Bill Lee and the other corrupt cops.

        • Xena says:

          BDLR saying the SPD did a great investigation …

          They did, in the sense that they got GZ to do a re-enactment on camera, give another version of his story at the voice stress test, and another version at his interview with Serino and Singleton. They also did a great investigation as they obtained witness statements that included there was an attempt to get some witnesses to hear what they didn’t hear and see what they didn’t see.

          The SPD’s “great investigation” was identifying items at the crime scene, location and position of Trayvon’s body which in essence, disagrees with GZ’s statements.

    • thejbmission says:

      Marshalette Wise,
      Excellent point — Lets just hope some heads roll after this case. We know that the Feds are looking into this case as I type this comment. I see something big happening here.
      The state attorney Norm Wolfinger steps away from this case in March and the Chief of police Bill Lee tried to temporarily resign a couple of weeks after GZ was arrested but the city commissioner wouldn’t accept his temporary resignation and fired him.
      There’s something rotten in Sanford and I hope the Feds get to the bottom of it because all I want is justice for Trayvon Martin.
      I’m not too sure of BDLR either.
      I have a question. Isn’t Angela Corey supposed to try this case?
      I’d feel much better if she’d show up at these hearings. JMO

    • leander22 says:

      Marshalette, I found this, meditating about why so many reports disappointed me.

      Notice Timothy Smith is one of the two officers he may/must have met after his 911 call connected with Taaffe’s house on Feb. 2, 12. Or the event where he called back to correct the address, since “the suspect” had moved on to Taaffe’s house, which was unlocked with the windows open. …

      I think on Feb. 26, he had that incident in mind. But this time realized it would be easier, if the arriving officers called him, instead of him calling back.

      I think it is good Serino drew the consequences, and maybe go back to learn a bit about really good reports, other people can base further inquiries on.

      Who is the officer picking up GZ for the reenactment?

      My core questions still are, whom exactly did he meet during his time as a volunteer at SPD? Or e.g. what exactly where his classes and credits in associate criminal justice. What do his profs remember about these classes, was there for instance a case discussed in which screams were available and it somehow surfaced that it is sometimes hard to distinguish who screamed? Or more difficult to determine than a voice talking? Could George have realized this? Never mind his unconvincing “reenactment” of his scream.

      • I would be surprised to learn that the State has not investigated the classes that Zimmerman took and the materials that were covered to find out what he might have known about the law of self-defense and police investigation procedures.

        There is more than a hint that he was aware of the SYG law and attempted to describe his conduct in a manner that would fit within its limitations.

        He has denied knowing anything about it but, as with so many other things he said, his claim does not appear to be credible.

  25. rayvenwolf says:

    And speaking of cover up slightly OT, but this has been rattling around in my head since someone mentioned the security cams in the last thread.(this is gonna be long)

    The twisted relationship of GZ and HOA.
    Now as with many things when it comes to property insurance – safeguards = discounts. Cameras(faulty at the time) and the PROPER patrol group, because full time security would have dipped into the funds more, are enough even though there’s the occasional break in or other trouble.

    In comes GZ, Mr. I need to be involved in everything, with his idea of the NWP. Of course the HOA jumps on that because its free. Now even though GZ is far from the most competent organizer he still is cut some slack.(Ok a lot because there is no doubt some one did report him riding around in his car with the lights off and checking all walkways – things not in his purview to do. that’s on top of following/harassing people)

    Now like any good HOA, there are rules an regs for every aspect of your home and how you use it. Some HOA hire people specifically to make sure everyone is in compliance and if need be hand out vio notices and fines. Wouldn’t it be interesting if they had GZ pull double duty? After all he’s gonna be out illegally patrolling anyways why not have him do their dirty work.?

    Of course they give their dog too much leash and now he could hang all of them along with himself. R@TL gets a new insurance post shooting – the last probably dropping them in relation to the shooting. Of course the new insurance doesn’t want to pay out to Trayvon’s family because as far as they are concerned(or know) GZ was not an employee of the HOA.

    Now yes, trying to distance themselves from GZ and the shooting would be the normal oh shit CYA time reaction. Not only would they be likely to be civilly held accountable for letting him run wild like that with their knowledge AND permission, but its just bad for business. Hard to get homes sold/rented and sure as hell hard to get insurance coverage from then on out.

    It really is only by small chance that GZ did not kill a resident, very small. And if the HOA really did have full knowledge of his NWP antics and possibly using him as free security I hope at least one is having a damn hard time sleeping and comes clean.

    • Xena says:

      And if the HOA really did have full knowledge of his NWP antics and possibly using him as free security I hope at least one is having a damn hard time sleeping and comes clean.

      Rayvenwolf. Did you see the Traveler’s Insurance Complaint filed in the federal court? The HOA took out insurance for the Board members. Each homeowner is responsible for their own insurance. The HOA gave Sybrina a claim form and when she turned it in to Traveler’s, they went to court naming the HOA as a defendant because they do not believe they are obligated to represent the HOA.

      I haven’t kept up to see if there are any new filings. If you want the complaint, send a comment to blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com, and I’ll email it to you.

      • Malisha says:

        Those homeowners know that they can ALL lose their homes behind this crap. That’s why some of them who were “witnesses” tried to say untrue stuff to throw off their liability. However, when it came to the actual pros and cons of committing perjury, especially since there was federal oversight of what was happening AND a very active media presence, they chose not to keep running around lying about everything to protect George. Now, you don’t hear about “eight burglaries, nine thefts and a shooting” any more, do you? You don’t hear that “George helped apprehend at least six criminals” any more, do you? You don’t hear about the big-mouth being escorted out of the HOA meeting on March 1 any more do you? They’re back up against the wall and they’re sweating — well — bullets.

      • Jun says:

        The only people I see liable for this issue is the police for not taking note of the repeated complaints of George’s deranged behavior and the member of HOA who decided to have George be the NW Patrol. Since George assigned himself and started it himself and the person who gave it a green light, they are the only ones responsible as the person who gave the green light should have been watching George closely and regulate his actions because it was dangerous and the person who gave it the okay would get in trouble as those are the only people I see liable.

        I listened to the witness interviews and in all honesty, I only noticed that witness 11 and witness 6 may have potentially lied. I feel everyone else was honest because they all stated that they never noticed any break ins or burglaries except witness 11. Witness 6 gave 3 different stories and witness 11 also changed their story. I know witness 11 lied because she claimed George was beat to holy hell with cut lips and such and none of that was available on George.

  26. Dennis says:

    Does anyone else have the feeling that CBS 48 Hours will do an episode on the murder of Trayvon Martin?

    • Malisha says:

      ’bout time.

      • Looolooo says:

        We’ll see if CBS is brave enough to feature Trayvon’s case. So many other neworks seem to have ignored it in recent weeks, and IMHO, I strongly believe that HLN cancelled Vinnie Politan’s show,…. just to prevent him from featuring this case. And in doing so, that also shut’s up Sunny Hostin, Mike Brooks, JVM, Jean Casarez, Mark NeJame (questionable), and Mark Eiglarsh (self-serving, turncoat). And naturally, I’d never expect Nancy Grace to stay with this case, like she did for Caylee, Haliee, and Kyron. Time will tell.

      • gblock says:

        I think that they generally don’t show cases until they are over. So while it is quite possible that 48 hours will do an episode on this case eventually, don’t expect it to be anytime soon.

    • Jun says:

      I can see this being on one of those mystery and detective type hows you see on HLN or whatnot. I watched the Frank Pullian murder case on there the other day. Frank Pullian was believed to be run over by a car at first but the forensics did not pan out as to the strewn items at the scene and the second autopsy on Pullian. It was discovered later on that Pullian actually died from blunt force trauma as they found fractures in his skull and they found that he was murdered for insurance fraud (money).

  27. thejbmission says:

    Prof Leatherman,
    You said in your article

    “Correcting” eyewitness accounts and permitting the prime suspect to destroy possible evidence of a homicide are absolutely unacceptable errors and suggest to me that a decision had already been made to clear Zimmerman before he was transported to the station house for questioning.

    And lets not forget that THE State Attorney Norm Wolfinger and THE chief of police Bill Lee were at the crime scene on the night of Feb 26. Why did this shooting earn the attention of high level LE? I’m beginning to believe GZ had someone call his dad, the X-Judge as soon as this happened.
    I just wrote an article on this topic and I have a question for you.
    Since it seems that O’Mara and GZ are allowed to spew whatever lies they care to utter, would it be legal for people like myself to post a billboard in Seminole County imploring them to visit Pro-Martin websites, or a website developed just for this purpose?
    Because I think it’s time to get the race issue off of the table because O’Mara is using it to his advantage.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminole_County,_Florida

    According to demographics, Seminole County is 82.4% white in 2008. I don’t think it’s change much since then but I’ll have to research further to be sure. In any case, I was wondering if there were anyway we could counter the O’Mara and Zimmerman websites.
    Just a thought…

    • Jun says:

      You can start as many websites as you want but I think it is better to try the case in court where everything is properly in place and rules. Besides there are many websites already made for Trayvon and the evidence of the case. I honestly dont believe an all white racist jury could or would even acquit Zimmerman because he is still considered a Mexican in their eyes. A racist jury would not be allowed to serve anyways due to the fact they are not impartial. Most important is jury selection because the evidence speaks for itself.

  28. thejbmission says:

    Jun,
    I agree with you, in a normal case unlike this one, I would feel comfortable letting the evidence speak for itself in a court of law but this case is different.
    We can’t undo the racial divide that occurred at the onset. People are people. Unfortunately it took Trayvon’s family to go to civil right activist to shed light on this horrible crime. Some white people may have gotten offended and fact remains, Seminole county is predominantly white.
    O’Mara knows this and that’s why he’ll never ask for a change of venue so it’s important that someone, who is not of color in any way, speaks for Trayvon.
    He needs other spokespersons besides Crump and his parents. GZ has O’Mara who is as white as driven snow sticking his neck out for him.
    I hope no one takes offense to what I’m saying. I’m just speaking the truth.
    Depending on how far O’Mara takes his media games, I think supporters of Trayvon need to become pro-active too.
    For me, this was never a case of black or white, it was a case of right and wrong. Zimmerman was wrong and needs to pay. JMO

    • Jun says:

      I dont feel that every single white person is guilty of being a racist and to be a juror you have to be impartial and strictly vote in regards to the evidence. Nelson made that very clear in her last order. Pretty much none of Omara’s rantings are admissible in court, and his only evidence is George’s claims, but his claims are either inadmissible or will be easily shot down as not credible based on bias, inconsistent, and various other factors in comparison to the evidence. Because of this, the jurors can not base their decision on what Omara has said out of court if it is not admissible at trial. Any juror basing their vote on inadmissible hearsay of Omara, will easily be outed. I personally feel Omara is going to cool off on his media outbursts now after this motion and the court hearing on the issue. Also at the end of the day if Omara wants to play the race card, George is still considered a Mexican, illegal immigrant drug smuggling gang banger in a racist person’s eyes, so Omara trying that hand can easily backfire on Omara, and any evidence Omara tries to submit based on race will be struck out.

      We can all start our websites and have our media and we have lots of backing of media people in regards to the case. Nelson stated that Omara did not overstep his boundaries but she never stated that Omara did not say anything questionable and I believe Omara gets the message to cool it. We can still fight it out in the media but I feel the court is more important than what is said in the media because Casey Anthony was considered vile and guilty and was found not guilty when it came to court. The more important issue is the integrity of a proper trial, based on law, and impartiality and I feel the evidence speaks for itself. Just because Robert Jr or Omara keep spewing their actions, it does not mean people believe or listen to them. The evidence is made freely available because of sunshine laws and pretty much with the witnesses, body location and positioning, shell casing, ballistics, forensics, pieces of items at the scene and their location, audio and video, defendant’s statements it is easy for any impartial jury to see the defendant is lying and that the evidence shows he targeted this kid and continued his pursuit and stalking and chasing and terrorizing of this kid with his craziness with a gun.

      IMO, Omara’s media escapades are not as strong as the truth. Omara did not get 2 million people to sign petitions and millions to march for Trayvon. The odds are against him.

      • Xena says:

        I personally feel Omara is going to cool off on his media outbursts now after this motion and the court hearing on the issue.

        Also, because apparently, someone in his office was dumb enough to send out an email asking supporters to comb the internet for evidence to help O’Mara defend against the gag order. I wonder if that person still has her job?

      • Jun says:

        Trent stated it was Annette Kelly and he has a printscreen off it. That proves Omara has lost control of what he says if he cant remember if he said anything questionable and on top asking biased racist people for information.

      • Do not forget that the statements and arguments of counsel are not evidence and the judge will so instruct the jury.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Annette Kelly is a Canadian and a GZLC supporter. She does not work in OM’s office.

  29. thejbmission says:

    Thank you Jun for reminding of the tremendous amount of evidence against GZ.
    I guess my wishful cause was a knee jerk reaction to O’Mara’s shenanigans. I’m a person who puts words into action when I see an injustice. I’ve learned a long time ago that words are mightier than the sword. In other words, I’m a letter writer, lol, not a fighter.

    • Jun says:

      We should still fight and prepare to get justice for this kid because I still feel Omara will pull every dirty trick he can do. If you want to put up billboards and websites still, you can do so too if you feel it will help more. I have thought about it long and hard and in court is the best place for this battle to be held. Sunshine laws will be making the trial public so any tomfoolery will easily be called out on. The court system is not perfect but it is pretty damn good considering that it places a lot of scrutiny on evidence, including anything a defendant claims (the roots of the legal system took a lot of thought and Omara’s outbursts will be facing incredible scrutiny when trial arrives). I like the court more than the media because the media will sensationalize and lie even to blow up a story. Besides, no one with any juice will back George or his crew.

      • Dennis says:

        I wonder if it would be legal to write the factual evidence on picket signs and stand outside the court to influence the public and jurors? I wouldn’t see this being any different than the media publishing articles containing factual information regarding the case.

      • Dennis says:

        The media outlets in the UK and Italy published tons of articles demonizing Amanda Knox. They did the same petty game that O’Mara is trying to play. Frederick did a fantastic article not too long ago about character assassination. I think O’Mara knows he has little chance at winning this case so he is using degenerate tactics to try and confuse the 6 sheep that get called in to decide Zimmerman’s fate. Twelve idiots acquitted Casey Anthony so I wouldn’t say I would be shocked if the same thing happened with Zimmerman. There are half as many sheep to confuse this time around. I hope they seat at least one African-American so that this will end in a mistrial at the very least.

      • Fed-up taxpayer says:

        Omara bin Lyin’– tries to fly a plane into towering evidence.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        @Dennis “Twelve idiots acquitted Casey Anthony. . .”

        There wasn’t sufficient evidence to convict Casey Anthony, therefore the jury did the right thing.

        There is sufficient evidence to convict GZ.

      • Dennis says:

        @Two sides to a story

        The jury got it wrong and they have to deal with it for the rest of their life.

        Bill O’Reily said it best:
        “If murderers can be acquitted based on theoretical fantasies, then our entire justice system has collapsed.”

  30. thejbmission says:

    Xena,
    Why would O’Mara do such a thing — Asking Blogsphere if he’s ever said anything over the top about Trayvon?
    I think he’s reaching out to the supporters to show he depends on them so they’ll feel important. Something like I do to my grandkids when I want them to pick up their toys. Like give them something to do to keep them busy and feel love.
    He’s ridiculous. I can not think of any other case when an attorney needs help from the public. I don’t know who’s more needy for attention, him or his client.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The core of OM and GZ supporters, such as Annette Kelly, make monthly donations. They also continually asked what they could do to help directly with the case. I followed their posts closely on the old GZLC FB.

  31. LLMPapa says:

    Before all opinions of Detective Serino are set in stone as him being “one of the good guys”, consider the following.

    These 3 snips are from a follow up interview on March 16 with Witness 18, the school teacher and ONLY stated eyewitness to the shooting.

    This witness states Serino interviewed her “1-2 hours” after she went outside and told an officer she had witnessed the incident from her bedroom window. Sounds like it would have been somewhere around 10-11 pm, maybe? It was clearly while he was at the scene, BEFORE he interviewed Zimmerman for the first time, and BEFORE he could have heard the tape of those screams.

    If everything’s slick with this investigation, if everything’s on the up and up, why would the lead investigator for the SPD be going door to door pushing this “George was doing the screaming” bs BEFORE even interviewing the shooter?

    The full 13 page statement begins on page 89 at

  32. Dennis says:

    Jose Baez has sent a letter to Judge Nelson, WTF? Looks like he is defending Zimmerman, not surprising since he got a child killer acquitted and is Hispanic himself.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/jose-baez-casey-anthonys-_n_2056116.html

    • [Comment deleted as a duplicate of an earlier comment at 8:24 am]

    • SearchingMind says:

      @ Dennis,

      Jose Baez is not defending Zimmerman. In his opinion BDLR made statements regarding him (Baez) that are not true. He wrote the Court to set the record straight. Jose Baez did also not get “a child killer” acquitted. He did his job and the jury acquitted his client. Thus, the client in question is NOT “a child killer” in the eyes of the law. Pls. keep your comments fact based and avoid unnecessary innuendos and insinuations. That’s the qualitative edge we here have compared to others on other sites (such as the wagist, CTH, huffingtonpost, etc.).

    • rachael says:

      @Dennis – Why does it look like Jose Baez is defending GZ? Jose Baez was defending himself. He didn’t want it on record he said something he didn’t say. Had nothing to do with GZ.

    • I realize others have corrected your mistaken assumption, but I’m still going to chime in to confirm that he wrote the letter to tell the judge that the prosecutor (BDLR) said something false about him during the hearing. He was defending his own professional reputation as he had a right to do.

      He was not defending Zimmerman.

      I did not follow the CA case, but the jury has spoken and the proper way to characterize the case is that he got an innocent person off.

      Whether or not he is Hispanic has nothing to do with anything.

      • grahase says:

        Actually, it was MOM that brought up Jose Baez. BDLR was just replying to MOMs comment. BDLR did not actually say anything because he said – I think, I dont know.

      • grahase says:

        To add to Jose Baez letter — during the Anthony trial — ALL on record, Mr. Baez threw everyone under the bus. I will not go into details except to say that there were few witnesses left unharmed by his unprofessional comments and allegations. MOM has taken cues from Baez and taken it further — from the ridiculous to the sublime.

        • jm says:

          grahase says: “………during the Anthony trial — ALL on record, Mr. Baez threw everyone under the bus. I will not go into details except to say that there were few witnesses left unharmed by his unprofessional comments and allegations. MOM has taken cues from Baez and taken it further — from the ridiculous to the sublime.”

          This is what I fear. MOM following Jose Baez style of defense, MOM will manage to distort and distract so that GZ will be found not guilty.

      • Dennis says:

        Not guilty does not mean innocent in America.

        • Yes, it does since a person is presumed innocent and the prosecution failed to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Such a person is innocent as a matter of law.

          You are talking about what is true and what is not true. We do not ask our juries to do that because our legal system isn’t capable of making that determination accurately in all cases. DNA evidence provides the rare exception in cases with biological evidence to test.

          A jury might make a mistake and convict an innocent person or it might make a mistake and not convict someone who really is guilty. We hope that most of the time it gets it right.

          Our system of justice recognizes that lack of certainty by presuming innocence and placing the burden of proof on the accuser to overcome that presumption.

      • Jun says:

        Honestly Omara cant really distort the facts much. I dont see how he could.

  33. Dennis says:

    How will officers testifying help Zimmerman, considered they would even be allowed to? Serino’s testimony alone would damage Zimmerman’s defense. Didn’t he sign an affidavit that Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter? He will confirm all of the lies Zimmerman told him during the interrogation. He would also testify as to why he believed Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter. I seriously think O’Mara’s brain cells are committing suicide at an exponential rate. The list of his failures in this case, considering he is acting in his client’s best interests, could go on and on.

    *Did not tell client to shut his mouth
    *Begged the racists/gun owners for money
    *Demonization of the victim
    *Can’t follow basic legal procedures

    • @Dennis said “How will officers testifying help Zimmerman, considered they would even be allowed to? Serino’s testimony alone would damage Zimmerman’s defense.”

      I sure hope you are correct Dennis, but sometimes this is not entirely true. Take for example the case of Frank Valdez which was featured on the documentary entitled “Torture in American Prisons.” The link to watch it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWxpQ87C4t4 . But, start at the 9:10 mark if you want to hear about the case I’m referring to and do a little google search if you want to verify what I am saying.

      9 Florida police beat Valdez and then took him to the prison doctor and then after returning him to his cell, beat him again and finished him off (leaving him with 22 broken ribs on both sides, a broken jaw, arm, leg, sternum, collarbone, shoulder, spine, nose and boot prints on his body. However, the prison guards claimed he did this too himself by throwing himself to the floor from his lower bunk (not the high one).

      One of the guards had a conscience and did a taped interview and deposition claiming he witnessed the guards beating Valdez and he was ordered to keep silent about it and stick to their official story that the injuries were self-inflicted. Because of outrage and an investigation into whether his rights were violated, it went to court.

      The guard not only testified on the stand, but while crying profusely claiming the horror of what he witnessed. He even went a step further by stating that it was routine for the guards to beat a prisoner a little (claiming need of force from being combative) then take him to the doctor to get those minor injuries on file and then on the way from hospital or once back in the cell, they would beat the crap out of and/or kill the same prisoner and use the doctor’s notes to claim/support the only injuries noted when prisoner left their care.

      All the guards were found not guilty and the whistleblower of course shunned and I believe either demoted or fired.

      So hopefully, Serino will be able to stay true and his testimony will out shine the rest of the SPD as you said. My example was just showing that often an individual officer turning against the group or differing in view can make the jury side for/trust the group instead. But one good thing that differs about this case is that the SPD is not on trial but Zimmerman is.

      • Oh, and Valdez died in the prison. They killed him I mean. I didn’t make that clear in the text above. You could have been under the impression he lived because I didn’t state it.

      • Malisha says:

        Judge Nelson does not need to say this, but we should remind ourselves of it: carryings-on in the press, in “emergency motions,” in the blogs, in the minds of people who support George Zimmerman’s right to kill anyone he finds suspicious, do not necessarily lead t admissible evidence. The defense is able to subpoena Trayvon Martin’s school records. OK. Will that lead to admissible evidence? Aye, there’s the rub. Maybe the defense wants to say that it is of evidentiary value that Trayvon missed school on a Thursday in December. The Outhousers can go nuts about that for weeks, especially since they can prove that there are Thug-Meetings on Thursdays between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and they bet he attended. Blah blah blah blah. And is any of that admissible? Uh…nope. So the defense gets perhaps a tweet where DeeDee says, “I feel bad” and she sent somebody else a tweet saying “I feel pretty good.” Evidentiary? Uh…nope.

        These things are not important because they are not even RELATED to evidence. Fourteen cops and a partridge in a pear tree chose to let George Zimmerman go? Who cares? Their opinions are not admissible evidence of a crime or of lack of a crime. This whole thing is about something OTHER than evidence so we should never elevate it above its natural level.

        Which is still pretty low.

    • Malisha says:

      Dennis, I believe O’Mara sent folks looking for anything untoward he might have said as a technique to get everyone to go re-read every word he said! It would be like an author putting out a notice saying, “Some people said that the second edition of my book had some changes in it, and it shouldn’t have, so please buy another book of mine and compare them carefully for me, OK?” The fact that folks who wanted to help O’Mara would go back and read every single stupid asinine thing he ever said (e.g., “I think we all agree by now that George’s nose was broken”) was just a way to boost his “ratings” with the folks who are most likely to send him money.

  34. SearchingMind says:

    @ Professor, CharokeeNative

    “Judge Nelson should have pointed out in her ruling that the SPD’s conduct that night was irrelevant to the state vs. zimmerman case – it is an argument for a different tribunal – and she should have issued a warning to O’Mara and West that attempts to taint the jury would result in sanctions”

    I fundamentally disagree with this assertion – on the following grounds:

    (a) “SPD’s conduct that night” is VERY “relevant to the state vs. Zimmerman”. The State’s affidavit to indict Zimmerman is based on “SPD’s conduct” (i.e. findings “that night”). The said conduct would also be relevant when answering certain relevant questions such as contamination of the evidence, chain of custody, etc. O’Mara might be very foolish in making SPD’ conduct an issue (it’s hard to see how that benefits Zimmerman), but such does not diminish its huge relevance;

    (b) The discovery process is still ongoing. The judge has NO authority to tell the defense what it may- and/or may not discover (if what it seeks is discoverable). If the judge Nelson did that, she shall have set herself up for disqualification on the grounds of (actual) bias (or the appearance thereof). After discovery, the judge will get to rule on the admissibility of certain “evidence” the parties might want to present during the SYG-hearing and/or trial. That’s when the question of ‘relevancy-’ will be addressed.

    (c) There is no evidence that O’Mara and/or West has/have attempted to taint potential jurors. If Mr. Crump & Co. are allowed to talk- and are in fact talking to the media and (re)presenting what essentially is the prosecution’s case, O’Mara is obliged to counterbalance that – in the media. Not doing that will be malpractice, IMO. Both O’Mara and Crump are (in accordance with the law) trying to put the “truth” out there. Both of them might also intentionally be trying to influence potential jurors. But there is no proof that any of them is doing that (and you would have to read their minds to know their true intentions). If the judge would gag O’Mara while Crump & Co. get to have their way in the media, the judge shall have created an unfair imbalance and unjustifiably limited Zimmerman’s First Amendment rights.

    (d) “Warning” O’Mara and/or West that that his/their ALLEGED attempts to taint potential jurors and/or telling them what they may- and/or may not discover, would definitely qualify as bias or an appearance thereof – and lead to another successful judicial disqualification. The Judge shall then have accused them (O’Mara and West) of doing something the Judge cannot prove they did/are doing and unreasonably limited their ability to provide an effective defense for their clients (see also the Sixth Amendment), etc.

    IMO, Judge Nelson has – so far – done a good job. I think she agrees with the prosecution and Professor that most of what O’Mara is seeking, would not be admissible/relevant in (dis)proving Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence. But, she also realizes that the case is in a discovery phase where the defense (just like the prosecution) must be granted a large margin of appreciation/discretion to investigate the opposite of what the defendant is charged with and gather information to that effect.

  35. Malisha says:

    About the Serino charge, here’s my take on it, and its effect. If Serino is terribly smart and was hoping to hand the real case over to Chief Lee (DEFEND ZIMMERMAN NO MATTER WHAT) with gift-wrap and a bow on it, so that he could curry favor with his obviously corrupt boss and/or with whoever is behind his obviously corrupt boss, then he could have done so by the method he followed during the first couple of weeks the case was pending. He wanted to charge George with 782.11, the Florida charge that applies to folks (usually cops, of course) who accidentally kill somebody while they are TRYING TO PREVENT the commission of a crime.

    There was a cop who had been charged with a 782.11 a while back who was convicted. On appeal, his appellate lawyer simply proved that the person the cop killed was not actually committing a crime! By proving that the one element of the charge was absent, the appellate lawyers showed that the crime itself, 782.11, had not been committed. You can’t just “change the code section for the specific violation of the criminal law” after the fact. And you CAN’T try one defendant twice for the same deed. SO what they ended up with was an incorrect charge, a conviction, a quickie appeal, a reversal, and the guy was out and free forever from the consequences of his actions. Serino could have handed this to Zimmerman and the corrupt cops actually prevented it from happening! Wow, :cool:

    The irony of it is that the cop who got off because his victim was not a criminal would NOT have gotten off had his victim been committing a crime. So if you kill somebody “accidentally” in Florida, it goes better for you if (a) your victim is NOT a thug and NOT a fucking punk; and (b) the police charge you with 782.11. WOW! That was just the exact scenario Serino was setting up but the rest of the cops were too dumb to realize how beautifully Serino’s plan would have worked, if they didn’t all have their heads shoved up — pumpkins.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    • leander22 says:

      Interesting case in US legal history, Malisha. Horrible setting in the loops that laws at times leave for the guilty to slip through.

      I see we are back circling the possible scenarios of the case Chris Serino. And obviously I noticed your very special humor carefully floating between cynicism and irony.

      I acknowledge LLMPapa’s admonition, but strictly I still hesitate to integrate him neatly into a completely corrupt SPD collective.

      He does not influence her during her testimony, never interrupts her, does not use suggestive questions. He may have made an error in the end, maybe since he heard this was the most disturbed witness? Besides she tells him that.

      If you listen to her 911 call, it’s quite possible Serino was informed about this with 14:39 very, very long, and very, very emotional call. The person taking the call is trying the best he can to help her, thinks about a victims advocate, since he realizes she in under shock. He tries to calm her down, it takes him at least two attempts to get this message over:

      07:31-43

      “From what I can see we possibly have the person that is responsible. So you don’t need to worry about that now”

      Maybe, since I hear a deep not completely suppressed anger in Serino’s interviews with GZ on Feb. 29, when he confronts GZ with who the person he shot was. I am not prepared to say the man is all bad.

      I completely accept that I may be setting myself up for a big disappointment. But there you go. ;)

  36. Malisha says:

    George really likes to say that Trayvon Martin “mounted” him.

    I always found that phrase a little creepy and, well, creepy. Since I believe it came from George’s imagination, and does not represent any physical reality that occurred in THIS UNIVERSE in the past (yes, I know there are alternate universes but there is no evidence Trayvon Martin ever met George Zimmerman in one), I find myself wondering about why George likes the idea that he was mounted by an African American youth. After all, he could have been involved in some kind of “self-defense” without being “mounted,” now, couldn’t he? And come to think of it, if he got punched in the nose and fell down immediately, he would NOT have been flat on his back on the ground. AND he would have rolled over sideways immediately because he did not report any restraining actions Trayvon might have taken to prevent him from rolling. Any living person over the age of six months who falls onto their back rolls sideways immediately; it’s reflexive. Only dead people (or people who lose consciousness immediately upon impact) fall on their back and stay there. If you’re conscious enough to yell HELP ME 14 times, you can roll sideways.

    George was “mounted”? In his dreams. (Yeah, maybe Shellie does it.)

  37. whonoze says:

    This is a weird case. I am convinced Corey’s fairly vigorous prosecution of Zimmerman is in part an attempt to keep all focus on him and thus cover up the racism of Wolfinger, Lee and the SPD. Now, in defending Zimmerman, Mark O’Mara is making arguments that expose police incompetence and prejudice, if not outright corruption. It occurs to me that O’Mara may not be so stupid that he is blind to how his arguments will actually reflect on Florida LEO. He is, AFAIK, a Democrat, and probably well aware of the tendencies of the Sanford Police, the FDLE and SAO, and probably would like to see those institutions reformed in a more progressive direction. I wonder if that could be informing his choice of tactics here.

    As i noted before, this move by MOM calls Corey’s bluff. If she wants to continue to find no fault whatsoever with Wolfinger and Lee and the SPD in general, she either loses her grip on the case, or has to find someone expendable to scapegoat so thoroughly that Lee and Wolfinger can be seen to have been reasonably taken in by this person’s diabolical misdeeds. E.g. “It’s all Chris Serino’s fault!”

    I think it’s only gonna get weirder as time goes by, slowly as that may be.

    • Malisha says:

      I would agree this was about Corey’s need to protect Wolfinger et al. if I didn’t believe that O’Mara’s incentive to protect Wolfinger et al. was just as great as Corey’s. THEY ALL NEED TO PROTECT WOLFINGER ET AL.

      It’s not about being Democrat or Republican. In the mid-1990s there was a bizarre case in New York. The county executive of Westchester County was divorcing his wife of 35 or so years. He had done so many corrupt things and hidden so much money and committed so much fraud that he needed the divorce case to be sealed and conducted in secret, but in New York, you can’t do that for any of the reasons he gave. In fact, the law in New York says that if you are a known public figure (like Jackie Gleason, which is the case they all cite in these matters) you have LESS, not MORE, privacy in any divorce proceeding not involving minor chidlren. But O’Rourke wanted a gag order. A judge named DiBlasi gave it to him, just like that. O’Rourke was the biggest Republican in town; DiBlasi was the biggest Democrat. They were both in competition for the prize of “Most Corrupt.”

      As things moved along, they shoved the case into Manhattan, where they involved other judges and other lawyers in their calumny. Finally, one of the corrupt lawyers sued the wife, who had been gagged in such a way that she was not permitted to speak even to her own therapist about what was done to her. She was afraid of speaking about anything having to do with the divorce! Anyway, when this lawyer sued her for fees he had not earned, she answered his suit in the county where it was brought, which I think was the Bronx or something. THERE yet another judge issued a gag order without any legal basis. In other words, all the judges and all the officials involved got “turned” by the husband to help him hide everything.

      Then that man, who had three grown children, got the Catholic Church to give him an annulment of the marriage. Presto Chango, they did it. Wow, even a corrupt priest, a corrupt bishop, who knew? The wife opposed being annulled because she was a devout Catholic (as the husband always claimed to be as well) but her application to the Catholic Church to not retroactively unseal her vows made before her God went the way of the law — bye bye, corruption calls.

      Shortly after all these outrages came the really big one. The State Police in New York contacted the wife to ask if she knew anything that would disqualify the Husband from becoming a judge of the Supreme Court of New York, because they were doing the background checks necessary to clear him; he wanted to be a judge. She could not answer them because she was afraid that if she said yes, she knew of things that would disqualify him (for instance, when he was ordered to pay his wife $3,333.00 per month and pay the mortgage, he got all mixed up and didn’t obey the order and when the Manhattan judge threatened contempt, he claimed not to have realized that he had to pay her — so apparently he couldn’t understand simple court orders even while he was represented by lawyers), she would be prosecuted for violating the gag order! So she told the police, no, she had no information that would prevent his becoming a judge of the Supreme Court of New York.

      He got his judgeship.

      Do we see why all these judges, all these prosecutors, all these lawyers, all these officials, including police, are all corrupt together? We cannot find the ties that bind them. We cannot even begin to IMAGINE the ties that bind them. They are ten times the liars that George Zimmerman is.

      Want to call me cynical? Go ahead.

      • Malisha, I get exactly what you are saying. The fix is always in usually in police brutality cases also. Rarely are the police found guilty irregardless of the witnesses, bone fractures from force, autopsy reports, and heck presently even videotape of the excessive force will get them a guilty verdict. Usually only an acquittal. We know it is because of corruption. But if you could (which I never understood) explain how do they always find a jury of 12 to go along and say “Not guilty”???? How do they put the fix in… we know the police, DA, defense, judge, politicians are in bed together sometimes, but how do they also get sets of jurors (this happens all over in all states) to also be apart of the coverup??? This has always baffled me. I mean who are and where do the jurors who agree with this come from? What’s their incentive? Are they threatened? Are they under-covers pretending to be impartial jurors? Are they in witness protection and come out using their new identities for this? What do you know/think? How does the fix apply to jurors (regular citizens) also?

      • rachael says:

        ” Finally, one of the corrupt lawyers sued the wife, who had been gagged in such a way that she was not permitted to speak even to her own therapist about what was done to her.”

        How can they do that? OMG

    • leander22 says:

      “As i noted before, this move by MOM calls Corey’s bluff.”

      That was his strategy from the first bond hearing on. Strictly he is doing nothing but following “the Dersh’s” (Alan Dershowitz’s) lead. What makes a slight difference is that he tries to add a little excursion into the collected rumor dirt on Trayvon, hoping it will help.

      I am not a lawyer, much less informed about US law, but it seems obvious that the the affidavit can now only be fought in court, and the Dersh’s argument about its insufficiency is not enough anymore..

      sorry, if somebody wrote this before. Using the follow-up option below might be helpful, but then I am already struggling with my mailbox content.

      • The affidavit for probable cause ceased to be an issue in this case when Judge Lester reviewed and found it sufficient.

        Dershowitz and others continued to argue that it was insufficient but the argument was merely academic and never important to the outcome.

        With the release of discovery, we have seen that there is far more evidence of Zimmerman’s guilt than is required to satisfy the probable cause test.

  38. Malisha says:

    Princess6, the witness was not told while she was on the 911 call that the person screaming was the survivor of the encounter; she was told afterwards, in person, by Serino, apparently. There does not seem to be a recording of exactly what Serino told her.

    I am still interested in why the police could not have figured out who called them that night, 2/26/2012 or the next day, 2/27/2012, described as “anonymous female,” saying that George was trying to restrain Trayvon Martin before killing him. We all know the police can tell where the call is coming from, even if they had to do it after the fact, and we all know they could easily find out who called them with this extremely important information. PERHAPS the anonymous woman is the same person who had to be “escorted out” of the March 1 HOA meeting? Perhaps she is the one who had made repeated urgent reports to the police before 2/26/2012 saying that George Zimmerman was armed, dangerous, and running all over the neighborhood making trouble?

    • Jun says:

      is it recorded?

      • Brown says:

        It’s recorded on paper discovery dump 1 page 93 or 94 of 183

      • leander22 says:

        Brown I just checked since I don’t seem to remember that specific witness, Malisha allludes to. Can anyone help out?

        it was interesting to check back nevertheless:

        The pages you allude to are the teacher, interviewed on March 16, 2012, starting on page 89 altogether 13 pages. I have enormous troubles to decipher the handwriting of whoever interviewed her and recorded her answers.

        Interesting bit I almost forgot. So GZ moved to where some evidence was found? Did GZ search for his Hondo key with little flashlight. Or did he in fact put it there? Would someone that has studied criminal justice pick up evidence that ultimately supports his tale?

        page 91 “The broad *** man as now closer to my window. He was standing close to the small tree. I noticed the person on the ground, face down was not moving and appeared to be a boy. The broad built man remained standing there und put his hand to his head.”

        And here is the complete context of Serino’s statment.

        page 93, “After I completed the statement, I cried and told him, I’ll never forget the cries for help and wish I could have helped, and the investigator by the name of Chris Serino told me, “If it makes you feel any better the cries for help were not the person that died” and your statement was the same as the other witnesses. I asked him if I could show him where I witnessed the shooting and he said “no I don’t need to see it!”

        She couldn’t have known about the Honda key at that point in time. And Serino made the mistake to not interview her more closely in the same night when he had a chance.

        OK, that means Serino could have realized, he better went back when he realized who Trayvon was and questioned e.g. this witness more thoroughly. And take a look at what view she had on scene, never mind her “10 minutes”* are irritating in our context.

        Voices heard, heard again 10 minutes later, shortly before the screams and the shot.

  39. boar_d_laze says:

    1st Rule of Criminal Trial Lawyers Whether Prosecution OR Defense Trial Lawyers:
    When you have the facts, argue the facts. When you have the law, argue the law. When you don’t have the facts or the law, pound the table and blame the cops.

    2d Rule of Criminal Trial Lawyers Whether Prosecution OR Defense Trial Lawyers:
    It’s bad enough to lose because you did something you shouldn’t have done; but worse still when you didn’t do something you could.

    Unlike the Prosecution’s, the Defense’s duty is not to provide the best result for “the People,” nor to an abstract idea of justice, but directly to the defendant to see that he is found “not guilty.” If that’s not possible it is to see that he receive the least onerous punishment.

    BDL

  40. Malisha says:

    Rachael, you say: “Finally, one of the corrupt lawyers sued the wife, who had been gagged in such a way that she was not permitted to speak even to her own therapist about what was done to her.”

    How can they do that? OMG
    ============================
    Here’s how: They just DO IT and then if you want to UNDO it you have to hire somebody and pay the big bucks for them to UNDO it.

    Four different judges in three different jurisdictions in New York knew that the law did not provide any legal method for them to make the orders they made, forbidding the wife to speak. But she was already paying all the money she had to the divorce lawyer, and one after another, her lawyers wiped off the case because of the unlawful orders. The first spent up the whole retainer arguing against the gag order, lost, and wanted $10,000 more before the next hearing. Since the husband was then refusing to pay her spousal support or pay for the mortgage on the house, she had no money for his renewed demands. Then when the case got sent into Manhattan, the lawyer she had hired in Westchester couldn’t keep making the trips into Manhattan and giving up the whole day’s work only to get another continuance and no attorneys’ fees ordered by the court. On and on and on and on. Look at the Trayvon Martin case. If Crump and Jackson hadn’t jumped into this case, could Fulton and Martin have afforded to hire lawyers to do what had to be done to make the thing come right? No way.

    Every day in every county in every state of this Union, you have judges making orders, and even agencies doing things WITHOUT court orders, that are absolutely corrupt, strictly illegal, and just plain jaw-dropping WRONG-HEADED TIMES TEN, and nothing can be done about it unless the victims of these acts of corruption can get lucky enough to have the ACLU behind them, or are rich enough to throw down a million dollars to undo an official crime. Ask me about it. I have seen it and seen it and seen it and seen it for 35 years. Half the time the corrupt people are convinced that the person they are doing it to “deserves” it so they can comfort themselves and justify their conduct; the other half the time they just love power so much they want to put their foot on somebody’s neck and our corrupt system gives them the chance to do that.

    I told this wife that she should blab all over town and then get arrested for contempt and make a big scene and spend her money for a lawyer defending her for THAT but she had been a “good girl” all her life and wasn’t prepared to change course at the age of 60. So they bullied her and won. Oldest trick in the book. That’s why the victims are most often the people who do NOT “deserve” it: it can be dangerous to corruptly deprive someone of their rights if they have a good killer instinct. They could get YOU into the position you’re trying to get THEM into. But a normal, decent, law-abiding person is always vulnerable if they have a highly motivated, conflict-addicted, power-hungry enemy.

  41. whonoze says:

    @ Trent Sawyer

    Per your request to list examples of your conclusions that I find “wacky,” (With apologies to all for my delay in response to Trent’s inquiry. It was fair of him to ask, and I do owe him more of an explanation.)

    My comments were in reference to your video “PROOF George Zimmerman Stalked, Chased, and Murdered Trayvon Martin!!” which Xena had linked in an earlier thread as, in her words, “the clearest presentation I’ve seen using the clubhouse vids”.

    In this video, presenting what you call the “absolute timeline,” you assert:

    • At 7:09:34 GZ called NEN from in front of Frank Taaffe’s house on RVC.
    You have Taaffe’s location marked wrong.
    GZ was on TTL at 7:09:34 when he phoned NEN

    • Trayvon Martin walked down RVC from Taaffe’s toward the clubhouse between 7:09:43 and 7:10:34.
    Martin entered via the front gate, was never on RVC, and was already at the mailboxes when his call with DeeDee dropped at 6:54.

    • Zimmerman followed Trayvon down RVC in his truck and then parked in front of the clubhouse.
    Tchoupi has demonstrated that the spot in which Zimmerman claims to have parked is visible in the security vids, yet no vehicles enter or leave that area during the recording.

    • As Trayvon walked past Zimmerman’s truck in front of the clubhouse, he spoke to GZ saying, “Do you have a problem?”
    There is zero evidence for this, unless you count Zimmerman’s claim that TM confronted him.

    • ‘Zimmerman passes the East Pool Hall window and approaches the mailbox area, which is by the second bright light in the Pool video.’
    You have misidentified the location of the mailboxes, the Southern edge of which are visible in the East Pool Hall video, which does not have a window, as this area is open to the outside.

    • Someone else is in Zimmerman’s truck whispering to him.
    No credible audio expert supports this claim.

    • Bright lights visible in the Pool video are flashlights or porch lights.
    Neither flashlights nor porch lights have enough illumination power to be visible at that distance, much less as bright as the light artifacts you identify.

    • George Zimmerman can be heard knocking on someone’s door, either W6’s or W11’s, and this person is his accomplice in the murder of Trayvon Martin.
    The mystery sound in question cannot be clearly established as knocking on a door, and if that is what it is, no one opens the door and GZ does not go inside.

    Throughout this video, the times you attribute to Zimmerman’s locations are about 2 minutes late. Which is the main reason I advised folks here not to rely on your account of the security videos.

    I won’t even go into the assertion, made in the short profanity-laced video you posted patting yourself on the back for discovering the mis-labeling of the security video times, that the videos document the getaway of Zimmerman’s supposed accomplice.

    This sort of very flimsy conspiracy theory, along with the numerous errors and unsupported speculations noted above (presented as “absolute”), is why I labeled your conclusions ‘wacky.’

    • Xena says:

      @whonoze. Since you mentioned me, please allow me opportunity to respond to your misconception.

      …which Xena had linked in an earlier thread as, in her words, “the clearest presentation I’ve seen using the clubhouse vids”.

      It is my opinion that what Trent points out is easily seen irrespective of his interjection of opinions which I may or may not agree with.

      What I like about Trent’s presentation is that he goes back to GZ’s NEN call and connects the time to the clubhouse vids. It’s the “show” and not “tell” that I relate to.

      If I were tasked with putting together the clubhouse vids for a jury, I would follow the pattern that Trent does by connecting the recording of GZ’s NEN call — side by side along with the map of RTL. That in fact, I would obtain software that would place those little red buttons on the map to show GZ’s movements in association with the vids. Also, I would obtain a layout of the clubhouse and location of the cameras so the jury can understand the sequence.

      Visuals are more beneficial than “telling.” That is one reason why I admire how Trent presented the clubhouse vids. I can glean the facts from what he presents as well as glean facts from others.

  42. Malisha says:

    “Omara bin Lyin’– tries to fly a plane into towering evidence.”

    OK, OK, Fed-Up, this is the best, this is the best, I can’t get over it, I’m just slain.

    We need bumperstickers, signs for in front of the courthouse, and we need to put this on every blog there is — even blogs talking about realtors whose last names are Zimmerman — if only by “mistake” — this is the best quickie slogan I have ever heard in my life. Bar none.

    You, Sir or Madam, are the top of the line!

    Omara Bin Lyin: Tries to fly a plane into a Tower of Evidence

    PRICELESS! :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

  43. grahase says:

    THU MAY 31, 2012

    When Mitt Romney and his gang brutally pinned an effeminate kid to the ground and painfully butchered his hair because they thought he was gay (scarring the person and many of the attackers for life), Romney was an 18 year old senior in high school.

    When Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman for having the audacity to believe he could walk through his dad’s neighborhood without being accosted by the police department’s pet racial profiler, he was a 17 year old junior in high school.

    According to conservatives, Mitt Romney was a “kid” who can’t be expected to do much but be irresponsible. According to conservatives, Trayvon Martin was a hulking thug of an adult who deserved to die because he may have smoked a little weed (like most of our recent presidents, including GWB) and may have defended himself against a stalker.

    At age 15, Mitt Romney was already as tall as his father. By age 18, he was clearly taller. He was well over 6′-0″ by then and has probably shrunk an inch or so in his older years as most people do (he’s 6′-2″ now).

    Trayvon Martin has been reported by the AP as being 6′ tall and thin.

    So why the discrepancy in how Republicans perceive these two young men?

    Why is one so clearly just a “kid being a kid” and no real threat – while the other is in their minds so clearly a scary brutal powerful man with all the responsibility of an adult?

    I would propose that it’s the bigotry that underpins most of their worldview that is creating this glaring discrepancy in their opinions of each incident.

    But whatever the reason, their position on Mitt Romney’s brutal attack and the power and adult responsibility he must take for it is totally at odds with their views on Trayvon Martin.

    Trayvon was younger and smaller than Mitt Romney, and he didn’t create the dangerous situation he was caught up in. The difference between 18 and 17 can be huge, people are developing quickly at that age. The difference between a skinny 6′ and a solid 6′-3″ is also not negligible.

    This discrepancy invalidates both of their opinions on how relevant, brutal, and sadistic Romney’s attack was but it also invalidates their view on how powerful Trayvon Martin was – until such time that they show some consistency in their opinions – which they never will.

    I also can’t help but “wonder” (given their opinion that Trayvon deserved what he got) whether Republicans think Romney deserves to be alive today, if Lauber had been carrying a handgun. I put “wonder” in quotes because given their racial hypocrisy, I don’t really wonder.

  44. EveryOneIsEntitledToTheirOpinion says:

    Something I find very disturbing about the justice system when a judge instructs a jury to judge the evidence I find it hard to believe a juror judges by the evidence only. In my opinion I believe it is very difficult to judge as instructed by the court.

    I have sat on many juries wishing I had disqualified myself. I is very difficult to judge when the crime is despicable. It tough..

  45. Malisha says:

    Marshalette, I don’t think they can be secure that their “fix” will work with a jury. Juries are strange animals. Nobody can really predict what they will do. I don’t think O’Mara wants to take his chance with a jury.

    Remember about the Anthony trial, the jury did not KNOW that Casey Anthony had actually killed her daughter. She didn’t say, as did George, “Yeah I did it but I had a really good reason so I’m not a criminal.” She said, “I didn’t do it.” So establishing guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is harder, because there was no physical evidence that definitely made HER story impossible.

    Is there, however, “physical evidence that definitely makes GZ’s story impossible”? Yeah, baby!

    “He punched me in the face over and over and smashed my head on the ground until I thought I was gonna lose consciousness.”

    Physical evidence making it impossible: Lack of DNA on Trayvon Martin’s hands and hoodie sleeves; lack of serious injuries on George.

    “He reached for my gun so I pinched his hand and reached for my gun, pulled it out, aimed and fired one shot.”

    Physical evidence making it impossible: Autopsy report and location of body and shell casing.

    And etc. and so forth.

    That kind of physical evidence was not present in the Casey Anthony case to rebut her version of events.

  46. ivyleaf98 says:

    As an attorney myself, I was not pleased with the interview, so called interrogation of Zimmermand by Serino. This is one clear reason why he is now a witness for the defense.

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