Zimmerman: O’Mara Adds Sanford Police Officials to Defense Witness List

Rene Stutzman reported late yesterday in the The Orlando Sentinel:

George Zimmerman’s lawyers Wednesday notified prosecutors that their witness list now includes a who’s who of the Sanford Police Department’s chain of command at the time of Trayvon Martin’s death, including the police chief, major crimes captain, sergeant and case detectives.

-Snip-

Wednesday’s defense witness list has on it a dozen names, including former chief Bill Lee; Bob O’Connor, the major crimes captain who oversaw the investigation; Lt. Randy Smith, the former sergeant who supervised the detectives investigating the case; and lead Investigator Chris Serino.

As I have written here and here, this hullabaloo is much ado about nothing, as far as the Zimmerman case is concerned.

The reason is that the opinions of the various individuals regarding the sufficiency of the evidence against Zimmerman are irrelevant and inadmissible at Zimmerman’s trial.

The scheduled depositions may have an impact, however, on the ongoing federal investigation into whether Zimmerman may have violated federal laws prohibiting hate crimes when he killed Trayvon Martin.

I said “may” because I suspect that the federal investigation may have widened to include investigating the identified individuals and others for conspiring to conceal Zimmerman’s commission of the murder by not charging Zimmerman with a crime.

I think they would be well advised to consult with counsel before their scheduled depositions to discuss whether they should assert the Fifth Amendment and refuse to answer any questions pertaining to the investigation and their respective roles.

I believe there is much more to this story, so no one should be surprised if the depositions are suddenly cancelled without explanation.

754 Responses to Zimmerman: O’Mara Adds Sanford Police Officials to Defense Witness List

  1. princss6 says:

    I’ve been meaning to check, but aren’t most of these LEO also on the prosecution’s witness list?

  2. boar_d_laze says:

    I wouldn’t worry about whether they’re going to “consult” AND have an attorney present. Cops always get an attorney ASAP.

    BDL

  3. itsallboutmeash says:

    I know people are trying to get the Sanford Police Department video of Mark Osterman and Shellie Zimmerman waiting in the police station for George. I will not be surprised if they are told it is evidence in another case by the Justice Department or the FBI.

  4. Lonnie Starr says:

    Hoo boy, when they depose these police they’re going to have lots of stuff on tape to examine. These guys probably won’t get away.

  5. Two sides to a story says:

    Following!

  6. This gives a whole new meaning to “opening up a can of worms.” The tale of Pandora’s Box comes to mind also. Sometimes, prophylactic anything can lead to severe latex allergies and complications thereof. Whew! I’m sure O’Mara is already saying, “What in the world have I done?”

  7. AC says:

    this man hurt GZ, because if in anyway the prosecution can point out a sloppy – inadequate investigation; it will blow a hole in their defense. O’mara is a dirt-bag and as shady as that crack whore police department.

    Did they ask GZ and confirm that he just.

    Survey Profiled, Stalked, Ignored request to stop, followed, Pursued, Chased, Confronted, Instigated a fight and murdered a kid who wasn’t doing a damn thing wrong?

    No, they let this dirt-bag go home to his … wife.
    While TM lay in a Morgue as a john doe…
    Will the police testify as to why they did not take full witness statements? People had to hunt down the officers to give their statement.
    Will a Sanford Police officer admit that he told a witness, “this was not self defense?” on and on…

    • AC says:

      If the prosecution can point out a sloppy – inadequate investigation; it will blow a hole in their defense. O’mara is a dirt-bag and as shady as that crack whore police department.

      Did they ask GZ and confirm that he just.

      Survey Profiled, Stalked, Ignored request to stop, followed, Pursued, Chased, Confronted, Instigated a fight and murdered a kid who wasn’t doing a damn thing wrong?

      No, they let this dirt-bag go home to his … wife.
      While TM lay in a Morgue as a john doe…
      Will the police testify as to why they did not take full witness statements? People had to hunt down the officers to give their statement.
      Will a Sanford Police officer admit that he told a witness, “this was not self defense?” on and on…

      Previous comment didn’t read well…

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The SPD will be made a joke of, how will they explain the report that says they had TM’s full name at 3am 2/27 ? Obviously an altered record, so what else is there we can trust?

      • Jun says:

        I agree with the professor that the cops will likely get lawyers or avoid the deposition, or wait for the reply from the State, because this is not a solid yet, its just a filed motion. However, I still go by the idea, that the cops would rather look incompetent than conspiring, as incompetence is not criminal but they may lose their jobs at most.

      • Malisha says:

        Exactly.
        Their records reflected their desire to present the case a certain way; the way they wanted to present the case was “a case of self-defense.” Even the charge Serino first used was “accidental killing while preventing a felony.” They doctored everything. Yet the uncontrovertible evidence proves murder-2. Their collusion in trying to make the charges go away is not evidence of self-defense; it’s evidence of police involvement in a murder cover-up.

    • KA says:

      Yes,their correcting of the witnesses are suspect in exclusion.

      I remember that the mom of the 13 yr telling once that Serino believed that there was more to it than self defense because he did not believe GZ but then turned around and told the boy that the “child like” screams were from the adult, not the one killed.

      I have always thought that strange.

      Serino, in those tapes, clearly show that he does not believe GZ and then states in record that he needs to be charged and then turns around and tells O’Mara he did not think he needed charged?

      Either Serino is playing politics or O’Mara is just lying about what he said.

      • Malisha says:

        Serino played both sides, not being sure which one would prevail. But then he said — when Corey was appointed — “Good; I hope everything comes out now.”

    • roderick2012 says:

      @ AC: If anyone uses the sloppy work of the Sanford PD to its advantage it will be the defense.
      But as time goes on I am agreeing more with Malisha that there will be a no trial but a plea deal especially if Romney is elected and there will be no threat of charges from the DOJ.

      • Jun says:

        I dont feel it will help the defense. I actually feel it would simply damage the officers involved, thats about it. The evidence is too strong and the things that the cops did that were questionable all aided in George’s favor, so in actuality, it would look like the cops were trying to cover for George. Because of this, whether true or not, the cops stated there was insufficient evidence, as that will cover their asses from criminal charges.

    • ladystclaire says:

      When I read these comments about how George Zimmerman just up and murdered Trayvon in “COLD BLOOD,” I get real emotional and filled with sorrow for Trayvon. it hurts me so bad to know that some people in this country can actually support him, just because he killed an African American kid. IMO this is very shameful as the rest of the world is watching and seeing this country for what it really is as far as RACISM goes. a child has been murdered and these people can see fit to rejoice about it. there are people in that complex who saw and heard things that night but, they would rather lie than tell the truth about what they know about that night. shame on them all!

      • @Ladystclaire: Hello, I agree with you 100%! I fought for this country in the US Army, and yet it perturbs me and hurts me that we have people like this in this country who express such hatred for this young teenage kid all because his melanin is darker. I have friends all over this world who have expressed distaste for how hypocritical America is.

        America. The country who tries to police other nations and yet, we have people in this country who still harbor and practice racism. They rejoice, laugh and smirk like it is funny. They view blacks as nothing. It hurts me to know that TM’s last words were to his Mom, and the last human being he saw was GZ’s evil demonic face threatening him with a gun! I pray for justice every night for this boy. Justice was denied for Emmett Till, but it will come for TM!

        As for the people in the complex who saw GZ intimidate and try to detain TM, remember the words of MLK, and what he stood for and died for.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Thank you Deborah first of all for your service to our country and for your kind words in agreement with my comment. none of this stuff concerning the murder of this child makes any sense as far as those who support Zimmerman is concerned. they would rather take the word of a proven “LIAR” instead of what the evidence really shows. the fact that Trayvon can’t be here to tell his side of things should also tell them that, there are always two sides to “EVERY” story and because of Zimmerman’s actions, Trayvon can’t be here to tell us his side. this is why he and those helping him have made up these lies about Trayvon attacking and breaking his nose as well as the head bashing that “DID NOT” occur. they have done nothing but lie, smear, and slander this kid even in death. Trayvon has every right to let his side of things be told via the state of Florida and, this campaign of the defense to vilify him needs to STOP!

      • When I heard Trayvon’s screams for help and heard him scream ‘mom, help me!’ It truly changed me. I try to avoid listening to those tapes again because if its so unbearable to me, I cannot imagine how Sabrina and Tracy survive! I can’t imagine Trays last breath was wasted on that murderer and then his killer turns around and steals his last words too. There is no way a normal jury will believe GZ’s rediculus lies and let him walk away. I can’t imagine there’s really that many racists and bigots out there who could effectually acquit a child killer like GZ. I have to believe most people are civilized and morally against this crime regardless of color, politics or social status.

  8. Two sides to a story says:

    This is off-topic, but what’s with all this “double Dee-Dee stuff over at the Treehouse today? Do they really think there are two girls and that’s there’s some sort of conspiracy going on? http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/25/10-25-george-zimmerman-case-open-discussion-thread/#comments

    • KA says:

      I wish I could weigh in, but I break out in hives when reading that site.

    • Tzar says:

      Let’s just not read that site and say we did
      let them find the other Dee Dee, they can produce her in court
      and we can watch there

    • Jun says:

      They also claim to know the real Deedee’s twitter when Deedee is not even her real name. Its a code name to protect her identity. But it hasnt stopped them from finding every single black girl named Deedee on facebook or twitter to purport it is her

      • Xena says:

        But it hasnt stopped them from finding every single black girl named Deedee on facebook or twitter to purport it is her

        Or Janiqua, Laniqua. Diawatman claims to know her real name by putting together letter hooks from the redacted statement. This is how they play: Say anything that does not look good for GZ, and they build a conspiracy theory around it, then build false hypothesis on the conspiracy theory and end it with, “So, if O’Mara finds this out, Corey will drop the charges against George and he’ll be a free man and can sue all of them.”

      • Jun says:

        The problem with their plans for George to sue everyone is that, there is beyond probable cause that a murder was committed, as well as aggravated stalking, false imprisonment, contempt, and various other crimes. He would not get anywhere.

        • Xena says:

          The problem with their plans for George to sue everyone is that, there is beyond probable cause that a murder was committed, as well as aggravated stalking, false imprisonment, contempt, and various other crimes. He would not get anywhere.

          IMO, there’s not an attorney anywhere in America who would represent GZ in those type of civil actions. BTW, have you noticed the silence on GZ suing the network? When GZ said “He’s black,” it was after he had answered the dispatcher’s question where he said “He looks Black,” so it was not giving any impression other than the one given by GZ — that he wanted to drive that in.

      • Jun says:

        I dont think he would get far with that type of lawsuit. I dont think it made much difference whether or not the dispatcher’s question was in there or not, as George’s statements remained intact. What made George look bad is not the edit, it was actually the statements George made and his actions, which was toward a minor with candy who happened to be black. Its not the edit that does it, its George that does it. George also obviously hid because he killed an unarmed kid who had candy after stalking and chasing him with a gun and by car and foot.

    • camanokat says:

      I looked at a few comments at that site. Now I need a shower.

  9. KA says:

    This seems to me like another publicity stunt. He needs funds. It seems that this case is not being handled to actually acquit GZ, it seems that either O’Mara is just taking orders from George (as I am sure the police stating his innocence and lack of evidence was his idea) or they are just trying to get the money they can now before trial from the public as the physical evidence is going to be hard to overcome with a jury and O’Mara knows it.

    I think they have next to nothing in terms of a self defense claim and this is a way to secure funds before mid next year. I cannot even think that interviewing the police to determine if they believed GZ (before lab work came back or the State was brought in mind you) or not would even be relevant.

    They are taking advantage of the mentality prevalent in this election now that this was politically motivated and Al Sharpton is the reason for the whole arrest.

    This is no different than the Treehouse crowd and the conspiracy theorist supporters have stated over and over again for this past 9 months. I am just a little surprised it became a defense strategy.

    • Malisha says:

      KA, there IS no other defense strategy. O’Mara’s got the case from Hell and he knows it.

      • KA says:

        I agree.

        Please let there be a gag order allowed…every time O’Mara puts out another press release of meaningless garbage, the GZ supporters and slanted media declares victory.

  10. Malisha says:

    Two Sides, Don’t worry about what makes them to bonkers over at the Outhouse, because those people don’t take their meds. They go bonkers on a daily basis because it helps them…uh…function better between the sheets, so to speak. That’s half of O’Mara’s purpose in everything he does: Titillation of the tender sensibilities of the pro-Zim cult over there and in similar internet environments. See, they get their jollies threatening dead folks, people they would either fear (if they weren’t carrying) or kill (if they were and thought they could get away with it), slandering people who couldn’t care less what they think or say, and blustering and blah blah blah.

    So when O’Mara does something that HE knows has no meaning in terms of trial tactics (like putting people on the witness list who are not going to be able to say anything helpful to George once they’re sworn in), those folks don’t know that it’s meaningless gobbledygook and they get all worked up and run around spilling their beer on the front of their jeans and behaving like chihuahuas who haven’t had their walk yet.

    All this is theater to try to get a plea deal worked out.

    The SPD would have hidden or destroyed ALL the evidence if they thought they had to and/or believed they could get away with it. As it was, GZ was a not-read-for-prime-time killer, so the crucial evidence (“We had his statements, we have the shell casing, and we had Mr. Martin’s body”) cannot be fudged and all that will happen is that police officers (etc) who need to be indicted in honor of the Federal Civil Rights Act will be talking a little too much.

    • KA says:

      Malisha, you crack me up!

      I could not agree more. This is public theatrics.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You’re right on, Malisha. LOL – chihuahuas – lots of growly prancing about, for sure.

      A lot of the carrying on over there about black crime is offensive too, as if black folk are only about crime. Today they’re also calling the eminent Maya Angelou a racist. Blech. I need a loong, hot shower. And lots of eyedrops.

      • Xena says:

        Today they’re also calling the eminent Maya Angelou a racist.

        According to their bigotry, anyone Black who comments about this case on behalf of justice for Trayvon is racist. Anyone White doing the same is a left-wing libturd. If they don’t know your race, they assume you are Black. Which gives me a real laugh as they threaten to discover personal things about those they dislike, because it defaults to looking for a Black person when it could be a White, Brown, Red or Yellow person.

      • Jun says:

        Xena

        add to that, if you are any other race that is not white or black, they attack your race as well

        Their ignorance is baffling

      • What is funny is that I have dropped that I am of Hispanic heritage. My best friend is black and Hispanic as well! I speak Spanish but that is from learning it when I traveled overseas in the Army. They don’t know what to say to that because if they make fun of call me names, I say to them, GZ is of Hispanic heritage as well. Is he stupid too? LOL! They don’t know what to say to that really. I drop that GZ is very proud of his heritage and that he has black relatives etc, and you know that they hate that too! I hate it over there and I won’t go back. The ignorance is very disturbing and emotions come out in me that I never knew I possessed! LOL!

  11. KA says:

    Professor, I have been quite tied up lately but read all of your postings…I appreciate your insight and expertise, as always.

  12. KA says:

    Crane – if you could find the time, I would love to read another entry from Frog Gravy. They are outstanding.

  13. LJ says:

    Professor, what is your opinion on MOM literally reaching out to GZ supporters for help scouring the web, for the most potentially questionable statements they have made during this process,
    “ZIMMERMAN DEFENSE INVITES PUBLIC SCRUTINY OF MEDIA POLICY”?

  14. Kyma says:

    The professor called for a fine for MOM for publicizing the sequestration motion. Are we thinking tomorrow may have some fireworks?

  15. KA says:

    So in the proposed motions to change venue, would not these public statements by the defense and constant, daily interviews and releases constitute that any local and potential jury “poisoning” is really the direct result of the defenses own strategy?

    Would the judge take that into consideration?

    I do not hear “boo” out of the State about evidence between hearings.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I wonder how long it will take before the defense supporters no longer like Judge Nelson. I’m reaching for the popcorn . . .

      • Jun says:

        They already dont like her. She’s a woman, and a child advocate. She got a rapist so mad, he freaked out at trial (hopefully she has the same effect on George, and it seems to be true, considering how he looked last hearing). I dont think the racist bigots like the idea of even having a woman watch over the proceedings.

  16. Xena says:

    I said “may” because I suspect that the federal investigation may have widened to include investigating the identified individuals and others for conspiring to conceal Zimmerman’s commission of the murder by not charging Zimmerman with a crime.

    Very reasonable possibility.

  17. Malisha says:

    NEWS FLASH: HEADLINE WRITERS AND DRAMATURGISTS IN SUPPORT OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DEFENSE FUND GATHER FOR STRATEGIC PLANNING SUMMIT:

  18. bettykath says:

    What would be the reason for deposing the officers?
    Their depositions are confidential, ie. not for pubic dissemination.
    Their opinions are not admissible. To what could they testify?
    What information could they provide in terms of clues or pointers for further investigation that would tend to help GZ? This looks like a red herring?

    ————-
    I went to the treehouse. I saw comments that interpret and speculate like what happens here. They come to different conclusions. Maybe my sample was too small but I didn’t see anything that was nastier than what I’ve seen here at times. There are two groups coming to different conclusions.and both engaging in speculation. The advantage here is a knowledgeable leader, but even that doesn’t stop some rather nasty speculation and name calling. Some of the actions about GZ and MOM, especially in terms of motives, could have more than one reason. I’ve been reluctant to post a different opinion b/c there is little tolerance for anything that can be seen, even remotely, as pro-GZ.

    When there are two strongly opposing views the truth is usually somewhere in between the two.

    • Jun says:

      While I agree there is some speculation here, we at least base it on the evidence here, instead of investing evidence like at the Treefort. I dont believe there is little tolerance for anything pro-GZ, but generally when people like that come here, you have to admit, its the same modus operandi of using racism to try to get their point across.

      • bettykath says:

        Certainly they are taking a different path. So would you if you thought there was any credibility in the GZ stories. Here the evidence has been examined and lots of holes have been found in GZ’s story. They seem to starting from the assumption that there are no holes in his story and, as any good defense would do, looking for holes in the prosecution’s story (the evidence) and looking for things that the prosecution hasn’t put out that support his story. Actually, they conflate his many stories into one and really don’t see the discrepancies. Perhaps, in their experience, the prosecution has been known to hide relevant evidence or to manufacture evidence. Seems there have been some stories to that effect.

      • Jun says:

        Betty

        I totally agree that both prosecution and defense, in other cases have tampered with evidence, to simply win. To them, its about winning, not the truth and real justice. Either side that does this is a perversion of justice and should be criminally charged like everyone else. Its one of the reasons modern prosecution is the way it is, because throughout the years, the court system is learning from its mistakes. However, for a defense to prove that, they would need to lay a foundation of that because not every prosecutor is dirty, as there is not every defense lawyer that is dirty.

        I personally feel that Corey would not risk her reputation for the likes of George Zimmerman, and the rest of her cases, to try those things. I feel they have an air tight case, and the paperwork and witness is going to airtight. You see, if they are doing what you claim of the prosecution, all their cases would soon come under scrutiny, and I dont think Corey and her team would break that oath in keeping the honor and the safety of the Florida counties safe.

        In conclusion, I am saying, just because it happened in other cases, it doesnt mean it happened here. If that is the route they take, I am sure the State is more than happy to show all the verifying paperwork for everything, so that there are no I’s to dot, and t’s to cross.

    • ks says:

      I’m sorry but that’s a “both sides…” false equivalency. I suggest you enhance your sample size. The treehouse is pretty ridiculous.

      Also, the questions asked above your tangential —— about the proposed depositions of the officers are quite valid legally.

      • Tzar says:

        beyond ridiculous

      • jm says:

        ks says: “The treehouse is pretty ridiculous….”

        The treehouse is beyond ridiculous to me and I honestly can’t read it for the sake of my health, mental and physical. It is hard to imagine such ignorant people producing the preposterous lies/speculation about what happened while ignoring evidence to the contrary. I think I have read enough evil Treehouse thoughts about Chad Green, Dee-Dee, Crump, Trayvon thuggery and cellphone pings, etc to last a lifetime.

        To me the treehouse rants are worse than listening to RZ Jr dodge questions/produce lies and delusions about his family life, the spirituality of the family and his overall arrogance.

        When treehouse posters take to maligning a dead teen’s reputation and anyone associated with him it is beyond ridiculous, it is evil.

      • Jun says:

        RZ Jr is pretty ridiculous…

        For example Cenk of the Young Turks, simply stated something along these lines when he had RZ Jr on his show..

        Cenk
        “Wouldnt you agree that this is a perversion of justice and a travesty? Jeez, the killer does not get checked or investigated but the kid that gets killed is given the third degree”

        RZ’s reply
        “White white white white. White people need credibility. Trayvon broke my brother’s nose. White white white white. There’s injustice against blacks. White white. We are proud hispanics. We are not racist.”

        Cenk
        “You make interesting points but I did not bring up race nor talking about race issues. I was pointing out the injustice in this case. A proper investigation did not take place, and we have a dead kid who was simply walking home with candy.”

        RZ Jr
        “White white white I’m white and whites need to prove their credibility. White white white. I am not racist. Trayvon started it.”

        LOL I exaggerated for effect but RZ Jr does dodge questions and only answers with race tangents or that Trayvon started it. He sounds like a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. LOL

      • Xena says:

        When treehouse posters take to maligning a dead teen’s reputation and anyone associated with him it is beyond ridiculous, it is evil.

        Yes. That rubs me the wrong way. When people claim to be Christian and have no respect for the dead, it speaks volumes about the knowledge they lack of their own religion. The apostles didn’t write epistles denigrating Judas in order to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. IOWs, the treeslummers cannot support GZ (unbelievers, actually) so they denigrate his victim and his victim’s race.

    • Jun says:

      Anyways to answer your questions, my answers are

      1) The reason for deposing officers, is that they were investigating. I think MOM thinks their opinions may help his case (I dont know). I personally dont feel it will because I think the officers will stick to their story of not charging yet because of lack of evidence. Anything other than that may look like they were trying to cover or they simply seriously thought there wasnt enough evidence. I think they would rather look incompetent than conspiring to cover. I feel this way because they cant change the 911 calls, the shell casing, the statements, the smoking gun, the autopsy, the forensics.

      2) I think the cops could only testify as to what they found during their investigation

      3) I believe they are actually witnesses for the prosecution and Omara is trying a sneaky way to take them for the State’s witness list. I dont know how they will help GZ except that they at one time felt that there was insufficient evidence and that they met up to discuss the case. I believe the cops will stick to that story, whether true or not, I dont know the whole story, because its better for them to look incompetent than look like they were conspiring. I am also sure any counsel they get is going to advise that as well. I dont know if the state represents them or not.

    • Tzar says:

      What lies do you see u post here?

      • Tzar says:

        What lies do you see us post here?

      • bettykath says:

        I’m not saying that anyone is posting lies but there sure is a lot of speculation. Especially when it comes to motives.

      • Xena says:

        Tzar, not speaking for bettykath, but I think she is referring to lies posted on other sites. It’s just my observation, but there are times we have communication problems with betty because she reads the arguments on other sites and then comes here for answers/explanations. That’s the problem, because questions built on a false hypothesis cannot be answered without showing the false hypothesis.

        For instance, there is a false hypothesis by the Zidiots that Trayvon had enough time to get home and since he didn’t, he must have double-backed for the sole purpose of laying in wait to confront GZ. So, there are people who want to explain the 2 minutes from the time that GZ stopped chasing Trayvon until they met.

        That hypothesis is false because it requires Trayvon to be clairvoyant. He would have to know that GZ would get out of his truck and follow him on foot, where GZ would go, and that GZ would turn back, the route and time that he would. It would also require that Trayvon be invisible when GZ passed him.

        The Zidiots have a play book for building false hypothesis and too often, people try to answer the questions built on them rather than expose the hypothesis for what it is — false.

      • Xena….I just don’t know but, the few times that I have gone over to the treetrailertrash, I come away with a feeling of anger (because of thier comments about Trayvon) or, a feeling of “huh?” because their arguments make absolutely NO SENSE! That story about the bus driver getting punched, and the comment that someone on Trayvon’s side “must have paid the driver off” to keep quiet, just confirmed for me that these folks are VERY GOOFY…..to say the least!

        • Xena says:

          Xena….I just don’t know but, the few times that I have gone over to the treetrailertrash, I come away with a feeling of anger (because of thier comments about Trayvon) or, a feeling of “huh?”

          I — Have — Absolutely — Nothing — Good –To — Say — About — The — Folks — Who — Comment — On –The –Treeslum.

          There, like in Yahoo comments, the ignorance of law makes me very sad for the future of America. When people think they can intimidate, harass, and insult enough to have criminal charges drop — well — it tells me they have pulled that off in a domestic violence case.

          When they seek to denigrate the victim, it tells me what their personal relationships are like — tit for tat, “I’ll get even with you,” lying, stalking, bullying.

          Their stench is too much for a skunk to handle.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            They are not looking or acting like very modern people of the 21 century. Their racist views are wasting the nations resources on silliness. America is fighting battles over ideologies while the world is struggling to fit themselves within the environmental envelope that technology has been shrinking since the start of the industrial revolution. Instead of working towards creating a more livable world for ourselves and the rest of the world, we’re deregulating so that corporations can sell more. GM crops, dangerous medicines, bad financial practices, wanton and polluting energy production (fracking), you name it. Bad decisions are considered bad, because they produce unwanted results. Meanwhile racism is facilitating the election of deficient politicians to power, who are ruling in favor of the corporations who support them.

            So now, you get to see those on the other side of this case, who do not care about preserving the legacy of our legal system, because to get their way, they insist that evidence, reason, and logic be damned. If the nation were a patient it would be running a 108 fever, under the care of a doctor who refuses to give it the medicine it needs, because he believes in some herbal cure. Go figure!

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr.

            Meanwhile racism is facilitating the election of deficient politicians to power, who are ruling in favor of the corporations who support them.

            It’s how Posse Comitus infiltrates groups and populations of those dissatisfied to promote their agenda which is render the federal government without power. They believe that local Sheriffs are the only ones with jurisdiction over citizens. Of course, that means if the local Sheriff disagrees with one of them, they can kill him and there’s no one with jurisdiction to bring them to justice.

            Although being White Supremacist, they don’t care who promotes their agenda as long as it gets done.

      • bettykath says:

        Xena says:
        October 25, 2012 at 7:05 pm

        Tzar, not speaking for bettykath, but I think she is referring to lies posted on other sites. It’s just my observation, but there are times we have communication problems with betty because she reads the arguments on other sites and then comes here for answers/explanations. That’s the problem, because questions built on a false hypothesis cannot be answered without showing the false hypothesis.
        —————————————

        Don’t mean to pick on you Xena, but this is an example of what I’m talking about. You speculate that I read arguments on other sites. FALSE. I said I made one brief visit to the treehouse, I’m a regular visitor to the Turley blog which focuses on legal issues, especially civil rights with only a bit on this topic, and I read the evidence dumps, and occasionally the newspaper reports linked to from here.

        My questions are based on what I read in the evidence and, mostly from the professor’s posts. Any false hypothesis come from speculation on this blog. Rather than calling out it out as speculation and hurting someone’s feelings, I try to ask questions that are intended to expose the speculation for what it is. Unfortunately, those doing the speculation are so wedded to it that they don’t see it for what it is.

        There is usually more than one way to interpret things but not when there is a mind set that blinds. The mind set here is such that anything done by a Z is Baaaad. Everything is interpreted with that in mind. That’s one sure way to miss the truth. And a good way to get blind-sided.

        I didn’t know we had communication problems but I guess that’s the label put to those who challenge the speculation of others. That’s ok. Those who try to lead don’t always know where they are going. I’ll continue to go my own way.

        • Xena says:

          @Bettykath.

          Don’t mean to pick on you Xena, but this is an example of what I’m talking about. You speculate that I read arguments on other sites. FALSE.

          You and I have had communication misunderstandings. While you say that you ask questions to expose speculation here, those questions are based on Zidiot arguments. By my saying the come from a false hypothesis is just that. If you’re not developing questions based on Zidiot arguments, then they still appear to be based on a false hypothesis.

          There is usually more than one way to interpret things but not when there is a mind set that blinds.

          What’s being interpreted? When GZ says, for instance, “These assholes. They always get away” are we suppose to interpret that as his expressing love for Trayvon and all other young Black teens walking in that community?

          Z is Baaaad.

          That is not an interpretation. Rather, it’s based on what GZ said, did, said, and said, and said.

          Everything is interpreted with that in mind. That’s one sure way to miss the truth.

          What have we missed of the truth about George Zimmerman?

          That’s ok. Those who try to lead don’t always know where they are going.

          Unlike GZ, we don’t need to follow and give an excuse that we were looking for an address. It really helps to know the territory, you know. Then, you can point out things while going your way. It’s call “team.” There is no “i” in that word.

    • Tzar says:

      oh I forgot
      what pro-GZ notions should we be more considerate towards, in your opinion?

      • jm says:

        I am open-minded and would love to hear pro-GZ ideas/motives/justification also but only if there is logic behind it and the defense of GZ.is not based on trashing all things Martin. The fact remains that GZ did not know anything about Trayvon Martin so Trayvon being a thug, real or imagined, should not factor in to GZ’s defense and GZ’s injuries do not look like he was thugged. My brother was a victim and he lost the sight in one eye and had multiple sutures plus was so out of it, he didn’t know where he was. He was hospitalized for a few days. (There were no weapons involved.)

    • Malisha says:

      Unless the two opposing views are views reached without any evaluation of data.

      Also, unless the two opposing views have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE at all, as in this case at the Outhouse.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I think MOM is going to attempt to use the police to prove that their first decision not to charge was the correct one. Of course, he can only do that by excluding what the investigators continued to learn beyond that night and by comparison and analysis of what they learned from the reenactment. Which means that he will fail to show that GZ should not have been charged. But he will drag Lee, the DA and a few others down into the mud with him.

        He’s sort of trying to defend GZ by putting the police in front of GZ on the firing squad post. That won’t stop the order to fire from being given, it will just mean that more people go down. If that happens MOM’s name is going to be mud in Fla law circles. Maybe he can switch to environmental law?

      • Jun says:

        Omara’s problem with that is he would have to prove that in court first, the cops even said that there was insufficient evidence to charge and never said they did not want to charge or felt he was not guilty, and the evidence at this point is too strong, even without the evidence gathered by Governor Scott appointing Corey. Omara can not change the 911 calls, George’s statements, the photos of that night, the bullet casing, the smoking gun, and the autopsy and forensics.

      • Lonnie said.. “……MOM’s name is going to be mud in Fla law circles.”
        Lonnie, I actually think that he will still be very popular with the Zim-supporter racist types. After all, he did his darndest to make Trayvon look like a thug and, it won’t be his fault if he loses or goes down because the Zim-supporter racist types will undoubtly blame it all on another conspiracy theory.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yes, I agree he’ll still be popular with that crowd, but being popular and having them hire him are two different stories. They’ll applaud him until they have their very own cases.

      • Jun says:

        The problem is that it is the year 2012 now and is the information era. Using race to bait and hate and split is simply a straw man argument and a method to actually have the 99% kill each other, while the 1% dictates. Not the whole 99% follow that because it is common knowledge now, so we are left with the 1% of that 99% that are blind to the facts.

  19. Jun says:

    I think the cops are safe. I do not know the truth of their statements but it sounds like they all said that there was insufficient evidence to charge him at the time. If they say anything other than that, they will look like they were covering the murder. Omara also cant stop the state from being at the deposition, I believe, so they will be there to depose as well.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s my understanding that SPD was struggling with how to best interpret the incident within the scope of the SYG law along with the evidence – as well as they’re interpretation of it – at the time the time. It’s not like evidence is always interpreted completely or properly either. So I don’t think OM is going to get much mileage out of his depositions of SPD officers.

      And it’s my understanding that it’s not at all unusual for a decision to charge or not charge in SYG or self-defense to take weeks and even as much as 2 or 3 months of deliberation. That Z senior wanted a quick decision is interesting, but he seemed more of a mind to want the whole thing to disappear without regard to the truth. I understand why the Martins wanted a quick decision too, and they jumped the gun as well. They had legitimate reasons for wanting a deeper investigation, as there should be whenever a death occurs. It’s just not enough to say – he hit me, I killed him, he deserved it.

      • Jun says:

        From what I heard it does as well. I think they just wanted the charges to stick, hence the longer investigation and being prepared for all angles a defense will take. Investigations generally produce a wide variety of opinions on where the investigation is leading, however, in this case, they have to look at the law, and how it is interpreted. I never heard anything about the regards of how they felt George was, but it was fairly obvious there was still thoughts of guilt and that he was a suspect. I doubt they want to give out the message that you can kill someone and simply say “self defense” and walk away from it.

  20. Fed-up taxpayer says:

    I wonder if anyone will be asked, “Officer, who instructed you not to gather standard homicide evidence?”

    “Officer, who instructed you to say that there was not sufficient evidence for the SPD to consider weighing a charge against Mr. Zimmerman?”

    Answers: “My client exercises his right under the Fifth Amendment to remain silent.”

    • bettykath says:

      First question has to be, “Did anyone instruct you not to gather standard homicide evidence?”

      You only get to the who question, if the answer to the first is “yes”.

      And neither question gets to his/her self-incrimination.

      How does it help the defense to prove that SPD didn’t want to prosecute and they were directed to not gather evidence that would force a charge? It would seem to me that if the cops deliberately didn’t gather evidence of a homicide, that’s information that would better serve the defense. Wouldn’t opening that can of worms better help the prosecution? I’m thinking about what was under GZ’s fingernails and on his hands and in his tox report.

      • Jun says:

        It wouldnt help the defense and would actually make one wonder why the police did not do a proper job for the obvious homicide.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      These over-reaching SYG laws encourage mistakes. Toss in a little possible racism or a little carelessness and you’ve got a case like this one.

    • @Fed-up……Your statement re: not gathering standard homicide evidence was exactly what I was thinking about and how would they explain that away.

  21. Malisha says:

    IMO, what O’Mara is trying to do is to accomplish “police nullification” because he is not sure he will be able to achieve “jury nullification.” He hopes that implying (because that is all he is doing and that is all he will be able to do) that the police all believed George was innocent will mean that somehow the charges will be dropped because “police must know something” and “the prosecutor shouldn’t have gone over their heads; they know what goes on in their own town.”

    The reason it will not work is that Corey DID charge George both because he did the crime AND as a political matter. The political matter was that Florida could not afford for the DOJ to investigate and conclude that the police routinely turn their eyes away from white-on-black crime. Since the FDLE AND the feds were going to investigate, FDLE realized it HAD to walk the straight and narrow and not just go along with a cover-up in full public view. Even in Florida there would be enough outcry over that to destabilize the government.

    So this charge is not being nullified, either by O’Mara’s shenanigans or by the Outhouse or Jeralyn Merritt or Dershowitz. It is based on very clear uncontrovertible evidence and it is going to either result in a plea or a trial. I hope for the latter but expect the former.

    • Mike says:

      ? Can george change his plea after the trail start,or try to plea the case out

      • gblock says:

        In theory, yes, but the prosecution may or may not agree to do it.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I for one don’t think the state will even entertain the thought of allowing him to plea out. it took 44 days for him to even be arrested which in itself was a slap in the face, for justice for Trayvon and his family. it took people of this country and other countries taking to the streets to even get an arrest in this case. so, I don’t think the state would even stoop to the level of allowing him to plea this out. IMO that would almost be the same as him being acquitted and just walking away a free man. NO PLEA DEAL!

  22. Mike says:

    The CTH seems to be very afraid of Dee Dee they’ve gone so far as to think she has some kind of stunt double. Got a Lott of good laughts reading the comments over there.

  23. katieunc says:

    This might not be the appropriate place to post this but…….remeber last hearing BDLR speaks of GZ’S. Broken nose and they have seen no proof. Also, MOM spoke in a press conference about “most likely”……..”probably” in reference to the event and the broken nose. Now, here’s my point. You cannot make a diagnosis without a diagnostic test and any PA SHOULD KNOW THIS. Look at the paragraph : probable, rule out……about the third one down. BDLR HAS GOT THIS!

    http://library.ahima.org/xpedio/groups/public/documents/ahima/bok2_000466.hcsp?dDocName=bok2_000466

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      That’s great documentation! This very subject (diagnostic coding) dominated message boards for ages, and with one link you’ve answered it.

      • rachael says:

        And to further that, that was the reason he was recommended to go to an ENT, to see if it was in fact broken and for any treatment if necessary, but he refused.

  24. Xena says:

    As I have written here and here, this hullabaloo is much ado about nothing, as far as the Zimmerman case is concerned.

    How many here get the impression that O’Mara is trying to litigate a cause of action other than the 2nd degree murder case? Certainly, MOM cannot defend GZ based on what the police thought before the special prosecutor investigated.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      MOM is only finding things to do to pass the time. Obviously, every time he tries an approach to a defense, he realizes that GZ has cut off that avenue, with one of his silly statements or claims. Any avenue he takes, leads right into a sea of incriminating evidence that he dare not open the door way to.

      Optimally he would need to go to the Death Valley Desert to find things he can safely argue, but failing that, the SPD’s pre-charge musings will have to do. At least the rhetoric can more easily make it seem that he’s doing something plausible. Now that MOM has alienated GZ and family from the SPD, there’s more pressure on GZ to plead. But the SP doesn’t need to plead the case, because MOM knows as well as they do, he has no case that he can put on.

      The SP doesn’t want to scare GZ, so they simply keep quiet. If GZ can’t read the writing on the wall, that’s his problem.

  25. aussie says:

    So, the cops met daily for weeks to declare there is insufficient evidence??

    To me that PROVES they were STILL LOOKING.

    If they’d decided once and for all not to charge GZ, they would have STOPPED HAVING MEETINGS ABOUT IT.

    Most of the damage was done on the day, when a few decided to give GZ a pass, which led to the initial sloppiness which then made the later work that much harder.

    • Xena says:

      I don’t know Aussie. Seems to me, based on things Serino said when interrogating GZ, that they were meeting to come up with excuses to give to the community and Trayvon’s parents as to why GZ had not been arrested. Keep in mind that during the same time, the SPD denied Trayvon’s parents police reports and recordings of the 911 calls.

      IIRC, attorney Crump went through a FOIA appeal process to get the police report and recordings of the 911 calls. Had the SPD not found sufficient evidence to arrest GZ, they should have had confidence in their reports and the 911 calls.

      GZ’s NEN provides evidence that he was angry and the aggressor. If not but for the fact that he got out of his truck and followed Trayvon, the two would not have physically met. MOM agrees, and abandoned a SYG defense for traditional self-defense.

  26. grahase says:

    I think MOM is trying to flush out the FBI, DOJ, findings and have the State dismiss the charges to keep the bigger problem (issue) under wraps. BDLR won’t get the gag order. I now think Zimmerman will prevail during the immunity hearing.

    • Xena says:

      I now think Zimmerman will prevail during the immunity hearing.

      He has a better chance of having a jury of 6 acquit him than being granted immunity by a judge. See Orr and Smithey cases and why they were denied immunity. Then see Saaverdra for why he was granted immunity.

      GZ mirrored Orr’s claims. Orr said that he was ambushed from behind; pinned to the ground; his head was bashed on the sidewalk; he couldn’t breathe; the person threatened to kill him. After his arrest (like GZ in addition to him being ADHD) Orr claimed to suffer with post traumatic stress.

      The State argued that the lack of debris on his clothing proved he was not pinned down. The blood splatter indicated that he was holding his victim while stabbing him. They also argued that his statement to the police was inconsistent with his testimony during the hearing.

      The Orr case was followed by the media and GZ might have read it. Like now, there were media lawyers piping in that SYG applied.

      Orr’s immunity hearing was held in March 2012, after GZ killed Trayvon. If GZ was following the case, he had to be disappointed that with all those claims, Orr was still denied immunity.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        A judge would have to surrender his own credibility, to grant SYG immunity to GZ, because:
        1. GZ is now a known and proven liar!
        2. All MOM has to submit in support of SYG is GZ’s own words and that’s it!

        I don’t believe that any jurist would publicly take the word of a known liar, in the face of conflicting evidence. Without a complete video tape of the entire incident, the only rational decision is to send the matter to a jury.

      • ladystclaire says:

        OMG, GZ’S multitudes of lies mirror that case you’ve cited down to a T. if GZ is as innocent of murdering this kid like he want the world to believe, why did he immediately go into hiding before this story made front page news in Sanford? he also started a defense fund for himself, and he hadn’t even been charged with a crime! IMO, this was a crime that he planned with the help of his two cohorts. he wanted to shoot and kill Trayvon the moment he laid eyes on him. I also believe he had that gun in his hand the entire time he was looking for Trayvon and, when he found him he held that kid at gun point and, when Trayvon started his screams for help, Zimmerman shot him to shut him up. may he rot in hell! SMH

        • Xena says:

          OMG, GZ’S multitudes of lies mirror that case you’ve cited down to a T.

          Yep. Even down to the “couldn’t breathe” claim. When I first read about the Orr case, I was amazed with the similarities that GZ also used.

          …Zimmerman shot him to shut him up. may he rot in hell! SMH

          Indeed, GZ shot Trayvon to shut him up. His screams got the attention of residents. GZ told Hannity that he was terrorized and nervous knowing the police were coming, and he didn’t want them to find him standing there with a gun. I did a blog on that.

          http://blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com/2012/09/19/did-trayvon-martin-call-911/

    • rachael says:

      @grahase – do you think the bigger problem can be kept under wraps now?

    • Jun says:

      Omara will get his discovery when he gets it. He cant just flush it out without any reason whatsoever. There are no bigger problems. There’s proof that Zimmerman’s story is phony. The man chased after the kid, terrorized him, and shot him & asphyxiated the kid. I think you are tripping out. An immunity hearing, Zimmerman has to prove he acted in self defense. If it is proven he instigated the whole incident, he cant claim SYG.

      • grahase says:

        You may be right. I may be trippin out. It is all so overwhelming. It may be normal process for those in the legal profession. I am on the outside looking in and trying to sort it all out. I have gone to the other sites – sickening I might add – and find that even a lawyer who often comments on HLN is a regular misfit – so to speak. The professor and participants on this blog are easy to understand and it all makes sense. Thank you for bringing me back to the world of the reasonable.

      • Jun says:

        Grahase, I am actually not a law professional. I actually learned how trials work from my own research and on here. The reason Omara is trying all these underhanded tactics is because he has no gag order on him, and the court of public opinion faces less scrutiny for credibility, so Omara can lie to his heart’s content without facing consequences for the time being. I think they will still release evidence, however, Omara will not be allowed to comment on the case. The public has a right to know but they also need to be able to properly have a trial too. If you get a chance, check out the evidence. Its fairly airtight. Pretty much they are going to decide who is the liar, George or the State. I am going with the state. All the evidence supports each other. The evidence verifies each other in this case. The cops know the law, and they will protect their butt over Zimmerman any day.

        As for the other sites, they have no control over what they say, and the State does not want to act unprofessional and ruin their case. Later on, the Martins can sue them for slander and libel as well as copyright infringement for the use of her son’s name because everything they have said is not true.

        Zimmerman cant change his statements, the 911 calls, the bullet and the casing, the autopsy, the forensics, and the witnesses, and the body location and Zimmerman’s car location. Gilbreathe was very shrewd when he said that it was Zimmerman’s inconsistent statements because he actually trapped himself and owned himself with his own lies and statements. Trayvon also has a right to stand his ground too, and he is the one with the right in this situation, since Zimmerman instigated it.

      • rachael says:

        @grahase: Jun is right. What O’Mara is doing is throwing out a bunch of red herrings, none of which have to do with the facts – that being GZ and a murder 2 charge. Don’t fall for it.

      • grahase says:

        Thank you for your words of advice. I have read every document, watched every YouTube video, and listened to all the audio (including the boring jailhouse calls). The evidence is pretty compelling. I have been paying attention in class and it seems to me that this is case is a no-brainer. I have learned things are not as easy as it seems, though. Admissible, hearsay, discoverable, oooooeeee! You all have taught me alot along the way. I really do worry about the jury pool though. This media stuff is getting pretty sickening and I know most people do not delve into a case except to believe what is on the news. As weak as Zimmerman’s case is, the social impact is strong. Thanks again guys. I will stay the course.

      • Jun says:

        Jury selection and preventing jury tainting is important. I do not know what the judge will rule but I think a gag order is important as well as the sunshine. The judge will need to come up with a good middle ground. I think the judge can understand both sides because sometimes too much media coverage will ruin the truth

    • Malisha says:

      I do not think GZ will prevail at an immunity hearing. In order to do so, some judge would HAVE to give up his or her career and agree to hide out in some traffic court position for the rest of their life and never be the speaker at a high school graduation or a dinner thrown to honor the donors of a nonprofit organization. The transcript of the hearing itself would be available for everyone in the country to read and the judge would commonly be known among free people as corrupt, stupid, bribed, racist, “activist” and/or worst. There is no way anyone could come CLOSE to proving 51% probability that George, upon hearing, “We don’t need you to do that, OK?” immediately called off the hunt, returned to his truck, and was interrupted in his innocent endeavor by a ruthless murderous homie who could dominate him physically for over a minute without even tieing up his hands first — and do it all without getting any of that poor white boy DNA all over his thuggish fists or skinning his no-good-low-down-bad-boy knuckles.

      There will have to be a plea or a trial. There will be enough “tell all books” and movies after the event that every single judge on the bench in Florida knows better than to fake out the entire intelligent nation (that is the entire intelligent population of this country) by pretending to believe such idiocy. In fact, IF after Wolfinger and Lee both told the police that there MUST BE NO CHARGES AT ALL LEVELED AGAINST GEORGE, it still resulted in weeks of secret meetings with folks saying, “What do we do? What do we do? What do we tell folks?” and at that point the forensic evidence had not yet even come in, how would it play for a JUDGE to believe there shouldn’t have been charges AFTER we find out that physical evidence makes every attempt at explaining the murder away ridiculous?

      I’m not buying it. No hearing before a judge is gonna make this go away. “We have his statements, we have the shell casing, we had Mr. Martin’s body.” Zimmerman’s goose is cooked; the only question is whether it’s gonna be medium or well-done and whether served with cranberry or cornpone.

    • Brown says:

      I love him more Rachael, Ha!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      O’Mara says: “My client has been consistently inconsistent! Stop skipping LLMPapa!” :lol:

    • jm says:

      Love it! I can only hope MOM and GZ loves your work as much.

    • FactsFirst says:

      @LLMPapa, you gotta put O’mara on FULL BLAST for this interview in regards to attacks on Zimmerman’s credibility!

      ~~~>Mark O’Mara said: “YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE FORENSIC EVIDENCE, THE INJURIES TO BOTH OF THE PARTIES, THE WITNESS STATEMENTS, THE TAPE THAT TALKS ABOUT, ON IT HAS THE PERSON SCREAMING FOR HELP FOR MORE THAN 45 SECONDS. I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT “ALL” THE EVIDENCE (AND SOME) WHICH, IS THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, THAT THE ***ATTACKS*** ON MR. ZIMMERMANS CREDIBILITIES ARE GONNA PALE IN COMPARISON TO THE UNDENIABLE OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE”

      SN: Make sure you include all the evidence too… LOL! I Love your videos LLMPapa!

      • Groans says:

        I’m surprised O’Mara referred to “the person” screaming for help, rather than “George” screaming for help.

      • Malisha says:

        “The person” screamed for help.
        “The person” went in the same direction as “the guy.”
        “The person’s hand” went for “The GUN.”
        “The nose” was “likely broken.”

        I’ve got it: There’s a whole new language for the Zimmerman case. It sounds like English. But it’s really Zimmanian!

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      If Mr. O’Mara studies enough of these videos he’ll want to “wimm away” too.

    • SupremeVictory says:

      Papa. Please use Deception from Lion King 2 in your videos.

      PLEASE!!!!

  27. rachael says:

    LLMPapa, I love you!!!

  28. Malisha says:

    Nobel Prize for YouTube “put that sucker to bed” clips goes to: [silence while we open the envelope] LLMPapa!

  29. CherokeeNative says:

    I have been trying to find the video clip where O’Mara states: “I think I would have remembered $37,000″ or something to that effect with regard to GZ’s jailhouse conversation that he told O’Mara he had tried to transfer funds…. I saw the video, it does exist…but can’t find it. If anyone here knows where to find it, can you send me a link? Thanks!!!

  30. whonoze says:

    Bettykath wrote:

    “There is little tolerance [here] for anything that can be seen, even remotely, as pro-GZ.”

    This is true. It’s obvious I think GZ is guilty of M2, but when I raise questions about any potential problems with the prosecutions case, e.g. the DeeDee tape mystery, or the vulnerability of DeeDee’s credibility I get treated like a racist Zimmietard, not someone who looking to shore up holes in the dike.

    “When there are two strongly opposing views the truth is usually somewhere in between the two.”

    That is absolutely NOT true. “Strongly opposing views” are often strategic positions to get consensus to move to some hypothetical false “middle.” Sometimes the truth is even beyond the boundaries of the prevailing passions. In the case of GZ’s character, I think he’s probably not the pure evil figure he’s painted as here, but the Treepers paint him as a saint, and the truth is hardly in the middle. I’m pretty sure he has a serious personality disorder. I would say MOM is probably getting a bad rap here. He doesn’t have a lot of options to defend his client, so just doing his job is going to take him places folks here won’t like (and he may not much like either).

    I’ve wondered if MOM is trying to get himself kicked from the case, or possibly if his “going over the line” is a stealth strategy to tank the defense while appearing to be zealous in his client’s cause. I wonder if this will be the first celebrated case where both sets of attorneys are trying to look fiercely combative, but secretly trying to lose, or at least where both sets of attorneys will give a secret sigh of relief if their opponents prevail at trial.

    • jm says:

      whonoze says: “I’ve wondered if MOM is trying to get himself kicked from the case, or possibly if his “going over the line” is a stealth strategy to tank the defense while appearing to be zealous in his client’s cause.”

      I thought maybe MOM set GZ up to lose during the Hannity interview. Surely Hannity’s questions were given to GZ and MOM prior to the show. How could MOM allow GZ to give those bizarre answers other than hoping to expose GZ as a double-talking liar who is walking a fine line between a personality disorder and pure crazy.

      • Xena says:

        How could MOM allow GZ to give those bizarre answers other than hoping to expose GZ as a double-talking liar who is walking a fine line between a personality disorder and pure crazy.

        In a word — money. O’Mara is somewhat of a fatherly type and would have compassion about GZ being homeless, broke, and unemployed. Of course, if he gained more people to donate, MOM could then look forward to being paid too. It wasn’t about the case.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That was a strong turning point for me and I wondered the same things.

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      I wonder if this will be the first celebrated case where both sets of attorneys are trying to look fiercely combative, but secretly trying to lose, or at least where both sets of attorneys will give a secret sigh of relief if their opponents prevail at trial.

      “The Producers” strategy? It’d be risible if a teenager hadn’t lost his life for no reason beyond the disturbances inside George Zimmerman’s own brain, with a major piece of society now finding it expedient to embrace the murder as furthering their own causes.

    • Rachael says:

      This is a very good post Whonoze.

    • Jun says:

      IMO being a judge jury and executioner of a kid, terrorizing him, with absolutely no proof to back up George’s assertions, is fairly evil. Maybe he is not 100 percent evil but I would still give him at least 75% evil

    • Jun says:

      I also disagree with you about your treatment. I think at most people here simply ask you for the reasoning and to back up the assertion. As any prosecution, they have to sit there and look at everything through every angle to prepare.

    • Am i in the twilight zone, AGIAN?

      I have Zero tolerance for ANYTHING or ANYONE PRO-GZ! Period! There’s NOTHING tolerable about the murderer of an innocent kid in my mind. All i have to do is listen to Trayvon screaming bloody murder for help, for his mom, for anyone to get that POS’s hands OFF him!

      There’s no such thing as an excuse or defense for a grown man to sit his ass in his car, armed with a lethal weapon, leering and cursing at a kid who’s simply walking home and talking on the phone to his girlfriend.

      There is no defense for a killer who stalked the kid with his car, called the cops on him and lied to the cops by insinuating the kid is on drugs, might be armed, and doesn’t belong there! Who the hell is GZ to decide Trayvon didn’t belong ANYWHERE?? GZ has NO RIGHT to question him. He had no right to call the cops on him!
      Everything GZ did from the minute he laid eyes on the kid is INDEFENSEABLE! He shouldn’t even be allowed a trial. He shouldn’t even enjoy the effort and investment of the courts to have a fair trial.

      He should get exactly what he gave. The death sentence.

      I don’t need DD’s statement, i don’t need DNA and i don’t need to hear GZ’s stupid apologists whining for him, to help me come to the conclusion that he killed an innocent kid.
      And as far as i’m concerned anyone who wants to defend him -like Omar, he can do it for FREE like he said he was in the beginning! And i don’t care what happens to him either. He wanted to step up and attack a dead boy on TV, lie about him just like the killer did, well he can reap what he’s sewed too.

      And who gives a shit if GZ is homeless, jobless or penniless? He brought it on himself. He was practically homeless and jobless before hand! His filthy lying friends and family have defamed the kid he killed and then degraded his family for wanting GZ to pay for what he did to their son? Well then they can support GZ themselves. Let THEM PAY for his expenses. Let them reimburse the state for the costs to prosecute him and his lawyer to defend him.

      Who cares about GZ, his freaky family and Omar?

      What About Trayvon and his good family?? They deserve support, not the killer!

      • sdunn5 says:

        shannoninmiami, ditto ditto ditto! Dee Dee’s comments is all they have to go after, they have no case. It appears his own attorneys don’t like him. The last 2 hearings they departed without so much as a bye bye. It does not excuse their despicable betrayal of a dead kid and his family.
        I don’t believe the Zimmerman’s had any friends. Perhaps there is a “Sanford Club for Psychopath’s”. That might explain the freaky Osterman’s ……it’s certainly not a large club. These people by their own words are very very isolated. Thug, looking about…..the lingo is bizarre it has always bothered me. Mark Osterman by his own words called Bill Lee “Billy”, yet the next sentence out of his mouth was “he wouldn’t know me if he stood next to me in a grocery check out line”! Hmmmm….Billy huh?

        • @sdunn:
          Great post! I find it odd that GZ does not have freinds among his own comtempories. Why are his “friends” Mark Osterman, his wife, Frank Taaffe? All men old enough to be his father? Don’t get me wrong, I had and have friends all ages, and all ethnic group as I became older, but when you are GZ’s age, (as my own daughters are in their early 20′s) their “peeps” as they say today, are college age like they are and I too had friends my age at that age! Very strange but again, we are discussing this walking contradiction! Can someone out here answer that for me? You don’t have to be a psychologist either!

      • @Shannon:
        Bravo! An absolutely excellent post! I feel the exact same way! Yes, who does GZ think he is to decide from the inside of his truck, (which his parents probably paid for) that someone who didn’t fit the profile of what and who is “good” does not belong in the neighborhood? Who is he to ascertain that this kid was on drugs, did not look like an athlete (neither does his fat butt) and was just looking around, like looking around is a crime? Was he doing anything else other than looking around? You cannot arrest someone for what you think they are going to do? If GZ was so afraid of this kid, why did he pursue him? Why did he shoot him despite the fact that he had control of his wrist? Was he aware that any of what he was stating was caught on tape including TM screaming? He had to have seen Jeremy. He spoke to him!

        If the SPD had arrested GZ on the spot after questioning him, and taking initial evidence this case would have never been heard of outside of Florida. How the hell do you think you can cover up the murder of a teenager? GZ is a mentally disturbed psyhco! There is something wrong with hs thought and thinking process. He was not cut out academically to be anything that he strived to be in life. I feel that set off his rage and anger which was deep inside of him and his parents knew that and ignored it, not to mention his alleged physical abuse by his mother. That is quite obvious! It is obvious. He also has been on anti-psychotic medication for a very long time, and that is why his attorney is trying his best to keep that information secret, but it has a lot to do with his actions that night, did he take his medicaiton? Was he delusional? High on illicit drugs? Those who side with Z are not siding with him per se. They call him names too. They are just to giddy that he killed something that they despise, a black individual. Believe me, they would kill GZ too if they could or if he had murdered a white kid.

  31. Malisha says:

    Oh wait — George was consistent about the really important part.

    February 26: Ooooh Ooooh my nose is bwoke
    February 27: big bandaid on my nose
    February 29: I couldn’t breathe because my nose was broken
    March 1: Ouch Ouch Boo Hoo!
    March 2: Daddy says Trayvon broke my nose!
    March 3: My attorney says Trayvon broke my nose?
    March 4: Shellie, help me, my nose was broken!
    March 5: Mark O’stermanMara, ain’t it sad how broke my nose is?
    Hannity: Broke nose
    Robert Junior: Broke nose
    O’Mara: I think it’s undisputed at this point in time.
    Outhouse: HIS NOSE WAS BROKEN BY A THUG AND YOU DON’T CARE? GO TO IRAN IF YOU CAN’T BE A DECENT AMERICAN HATING SOMEONE WHO BROKE A GUY’S NOSE!

    • jm says:

      @ Malisha It seems like the alleged continuous head bashing on cement would be of more serious concern to GZ’s safety. Of course you can’t make a big deal of the head bashing if the injuries are not consistent with the claim. In any case, a maybe broken nose hardly justifies killing someone. I still want to know how GZ self-diagnosed his nose as being broken at the scene of the crime.

    • KA says:

      I am not sure how someone could not feel bad for an 11th grader with a bullet in his chest…lost to his family forever…let’s donate for their tickets to Iran…

  32. Malisha says:

    PS: Pssst, Hey Pinnochio, if it’s smaller, it’s not as easy to get it broken!

    • Rachael says:

      If he wouldn’t stick it where it doesn’t belong to begin with. . .

      • ladystclaire says:

        @/rachael, I’m very surprised his nose hasn’t been broken for real, seeing as how he was always like you said, sticking it where it didn’t belong. especially since he was always just walking up to people interrogating them for no reason. anybody that does something like walking up to a complete stranger and asking them, “WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE,” deserve to get a punch in the nose. as we all know, he even did that to people who were paying residents of that neighborhood. people standing in their own yards smoking or just being outside of their own homes. George Zimmerman is crazy but, he is not so crazy that he did not know right from wrong.

  33. grahase says:

    Is the Hearing being televised today.

  34. Malisha says:

    Grahase, your sudden “panic attack” when you thought GZ could prevail at an immunity hearing is the exact thing that O’Mara was working on producing in the larger community NOT of the jury pool but of the American public that has, by in large, now decided that they are sick of bullsh*t and want to see a real “deal-with-it” kind of legal proceeding down in Florida to respond to the murder of an innocent teen-ager. Contending with this “public” is not what folks like the SPD, Wolfinger, Smith, and the Zim Cult ever contemplated having to do. I think their goal (and I am cynical enough to believe that this goal is shared by the prosecution) is to plead George out for some lesser charge right before the date of trial, but they know that there would be a public outcry of the greatest proportion if they just dropped it to “littering” for his dropping his flashlight and let him go with 4 hours of community service “mentoring.”

    So they have to make a substantial number of people get scared enough to think that GZ could walk so they will accept a goofball plea, thinking, “well that’s all we could do because the SPD botched the investigation” or some such nonsense.

    They want to “put the fear of Gazod [Gazod :evil: is the George Zimmerman god, who had a plan for the way things went down on 2/26/2012 in Florida; he's kind of a creepy, crazy-lookin gazod and to worship him, people lunge at the floor and intone, 'Geezad, Geeeeeeezad, GeeeeeeeeeZAAAAAAAAD!' five times a day]” into folks so they can work their magic plea deal. The reason for the plea deal is that all the evidence can then be relegated to the dark recesses until, some 20 years later when Malisha is no longer fussing about all this, some Florida former court clerk writes a paperback — if in fact there still are paperbacks. And folks will be saying “Who’s George Zimmerman?” along with “Who’s Jack Ruby?” and nobody will be really mad about any of this any more.

    Don’t feel bad about your momentary loss of confidence. George IS going to do a lengthy sentence; he may, of course, have a promise already that a year or two after the publicity has died down he can be “disappeared” from the prison and mysteriously reappear in the Grand Caymans or something…it has been known to happen.

    (See U.S. versus Michael Clott, USDC, Maryland, 1994 — and where oh where is Michael Clott?)

  35. Malisha says:

    Over on the Jonathan Turley blog there was mention of the “Top 100 Irish Lawyers.” I posted: “Hey was Mark O’Mara there?”

    Read it and weep: http://jonathanturley.org/2012/10/26/top-100-irish-lawyers-3/#comment-439196

    Since Turley put up several blogs protesting George Zimmerman’s innocence early on (including one claiming that he had passed a “lie detector test”!), I wouldn’t have voted for him if my name were Malisha O’Kommigan, but alas, I’m only Irish if (as an Irish friend of mine claimed) the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel scattered North to the Bonnie Green Snake-Free Hills of Eyre. :razz:

    Anyway I do respect Professor Turley for his blog and for much of his scholarship. Just couldn’t resist a few jokes at his expense and one big one at the expense of his Southern Compatriot.

    • Jun says:

      What I dont get is why some people want to proclaim the big huge right of Zimmerman to be presumed innocent yet the same compassion is not given to Trayvon, since Zimmerman made allegations? At this point, what Trayvon did or did not do, is still unproven from a court of law and come from a man with zero credibility.

      • FactsFirst says:

        Because Trayvon is BLACK! Yeah I said it… In their (racists)eyes, Trayvon doesn’t deserve the same compassion as GZ,(innocent until proven guilty) even in DEATH! But we’re (ALL RACES) are supposed to PRETEND this case doesn’t wreak of racism…

  36. Looolooo says:

    WOW! (watching hearing) MOM seems to be going ….all zimmerman….. on the Judge! Are they sharing meds or something?

  37. ladystclaire says:

    How do I find the continuation of these comments? there are 140+ and, I know they are not all on this page.

  38. I do not see anything posted past 1:05 P.M.

  39. Professor, could you put up an open post specifically about today’s hearing?

  40. gsype says:

    attorney west didn’t take his medication–lol

  41. tonydphotog says:

    I haven’t really seen many court cases live, but I find it odd that there’s really no interaction between GZ and his lawyers. Is this the normal protocol?

    • gbrbsb says:

      I think it is clear he leaves the lawyer/client interaction, or should I say, conferring, up to papa Zimmerman who was sitting next to MOM!

      • ladystclaire says:

        Is this normal courtroom protocol where the father of the defendant can sit at the defense table or are the Zimmerman’s so special that they trump courtroom protocol? it really seems that the court system in that state is way behind the times. it’s seems as if Trayvon was the perp in this case by the way the Zimmerman family is running amok in this case.

        • Xena says:

          Is this normal courtroom protocol where the father of the defendant can sit at the defense table or are the Zimmerman’s so special that they trump courtroom protocol?

          That was attorney Don West at the defense’s table — not Papa Zim.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Oooops… sorry my mistake. What bad eyesight and a small screen can do. It was the first time I was able to see a hearing and he does have a similarity to papa zim… or is that my eyesight again!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      They had little to say to GZ today. The defense team seemed to distance themselves from him. They’ve spoken to him much more after other hearings.

      • Xena says:

        They had little to say to GZ today. The defense team seemed to distance themselves from him. They’ve spoken to him much more after other hearings.

        Because his arguments via the treeslum, is making them look like fools.

  42. rayvenwolf says:

    Am I the only one who found GZ taking forever to fold that paperwork hilarious? Came in at the tail end of things, so recap on the beginning of things anyone?

    • Kyma says:

      I noticed that too and found it kinda funny. Fold it sideways, no fold it down the center, no wait, lets fold it into thirds, yes just so.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        ok glad I am not the only one. And holy crap does he need to cut back on whatever it is he’s eating. Its that or he’s cutting back on his meds which also are used for weight loss.

      • Xena says:

        I noticed that too and found it kinda funny. Fold it sideways, no fold it down the center, no wait, lets fold it into thirds, yes just so.

        That’s because of his perfectionist nature. It plays in how he judges his legal counsel also. That eye rolling — wonder if it’s a side-effect of whatever meds he’s taking?

        • jm says:

          Xena says: “That’s because of his perfectionist nature. It plays in how he judges his legal counsel also. That eye rolling — wonder if it’s a side-effect of whatever meds he’s taking?”

          I can’t see a perfectionist letting himself go as far as the weight gain. Having said that, after BLDR bringing all the skeltons out of MOM’s closet regarding conflicting statements and opening the door of his cousin’s statements, dissing RZ Jr, and making GZ look quite the fool for his Hannity interview, GZ probably is really, really, really ticked at MOM. I think the eye-rolling is beyond GZ’s control and might be a nervous tick. No more smirks though and still no suit allowance for GZ.

          • Xena says:

            I can’t see a perfectionist letting himself go as far as the weight gain.

            Uh, JM, the food has to be perfect — not the weight. LOL!!

            GZ has Virgo in an astrological house that causes him to set high standards for others — not necessarily himself, however. He expects to be appreciated, nay, worshiped, for pointing out the imperfections of others and creating them an image of perfectionism. That is one reason why he was angered that Trayvon would question him rather than submit to the superior being with all power and authority.

  43. Jun says:

    Okay I heard the motion for prophylactic something or other got denied. Is that true?

    You know how Judge Nelson got a rapist so mad at his trial? I think Nelson will have the same effect on the defense as I can envision the defense or George flipping out in court.

  44. rachael says:

    I just go home from school so obviously did not see anything, can someone fill me in?

    • Kyma says:

      Gag order requested by state, not ruled on till monday. MOM used google statistics of traffic to show how many people accessed his site, but didn’t mention information sharing which wouldn’t be considered in that statistic. He thinks its fine to give legal opinion on any and all evidence. He decided that he will be a major point of history, mentioned in 10 years people will use this case for legal president. (arrogant much)

      Emergency Sequestration Motion – Denied.

      West badgered judge on issues she’d already ruled on regarding discovery of information regarding tape interview of Crump. Nelson thrice told him to go home because she’s already ruled on these issues last Friday. West looked annoyed and pissed, and sat down. I just think West wanted the press to see him bring up the issue Witness 8 and crumps interview to make it look like the state was tampering evidence and not playing fair.

      Dec 11 next court date.

    • jm says:

      stateoftheinternet has hearing on youtube.

  45. ladystclaire says:

    If you guys don’t mind, I would like to blog with you all at this site, seeing that I have been banned from the cesspool HP, for no good reason. that site allows the Zimmerman fans to post any and everything they want to, as well as having an entire page of comments posted by one person. they have also allowed these very same people to run other bloggers away from their site. so, I politely sent them an email telling them that I didn’t have to blog at their site and that they could do away with my account all together. any blog that allows someone to post a comment saying, the world is a better place without Trayvon Martin in it, is “NOTHING” but a racist site and, these people are just expressing what those at HP would love to do themselves but can’t. so if you all will have me, I will be most grateful.

  46. Malisha says:

    Hey, LadySt.Claire, how nice to see you.

    That stuff they’re saying over on HP is sickening. I think I’ll make me a new country and in my country, when you say some dumb sh*t like that, you’re never allowed to use indoor plumbing again in life. :-)

    • Kyma says:

      Consider me a loyal subject!!! ;)

    • ladystclaire says:

      Thank you also! the things that they are allowed to have posted over there is unreal. most other sites would have banned their IP address for life but, not over at that site. being an AA it really hurt me to see the things that they were permitted to post there about this kid and his family. totally uncalled for.

  47. Malisha says:

    I’m looking around on-line to see what actually HAPPENED at today’s hearing and what I’m reading is not saying much about that. What is being said is the same-old same-old. A bunch of people are very riled because “you people” have been saying that George Zimmerman is “some kind of racist, child-molesting murderer” (hereinafter called an “RCMM”). As if it’s up to his lawyer to polish up his image. After all we don’t know he’s racist and we don’t know he has molested anybody. I say give the guy a chance.

    Now Trayvon Martin, you can say whatever you want about him because he hasn’t got a lawyer.

  48. Xena says:

    I am so far behind. Had an emergency this morning with a disabled friend and just recently got home. There are more than 50 comments in my email for this blog. So, please forgive me if I comment something that has already been posted, or do not respond to comments addressed to me.

  49. Malisha says:

    Comments about today’s hearing can also be found over at the “Judge Nelson should fine O’Mara” thread.

  50. bmh says:

    George is not rolling his eyes, it is wierd tic of his! I have noticed since the beginning of this case that he always does that with his eyes regardless of the situation. Stressed or relaxed. I have known people that do the same thing he does

    • Xena says:

      Withdrawal from anti-depressants can cause rolling eyes and increased weight gain.

      • sdunn5 says:

        Yes Xena let us add withdrawal from Amphetamines and staying up all night with 30 different user name comments on all the nut boards i.e. OS, CTH etc. he must be EXHAUSTED!!!

        • Xena says:

          Yes Xena let us add withdrawal from Amphetamines and staying up all night with 30 different user name comments on all the nut boards i.e. OS, CTH etc. he must be EXHAUSTED!!!

          Add Yahoo comments to articles about GZ also. Each time I read a comment where Trayvon is called “Traycoon,” I think it’s GZ confirming that he said “coon.” At least Bernie let us know Friday that the FBI’s investigation is ongoing. If it’s not GZ posting that filth, then his supporters aren’t helping him by doing so.

    • camanokat says:

      Sometimes contact lens wearers do that.

      • jm says:

        I know many contact wearers who do not roll their eyes in the bizarre way GZ does. I think it is GZ nerves that cause this nervous tic because he knows the camera is getting him close-up and he knows his lies have been exposed. The eyes are the window to the soul and GZ’s are more than a bit crazy.

        • Xena says:

          Rolling the eyes like GZ does, is also a side-effect of withdrawal from some anti-depressants. Which brings about an associated subject. I wonder if he continued COBRA after quitting his job to continue his health insurance. If not, then he has to pay when he goes to the doctor, which might be the reason why we see physical changes and possible withdrawal symptoms.

          • jm says:

            Xena says: “Rolling the eyes like GZ does, is also a side-effect of withdrawal from some anti-depressants…….”

            Interesting that GZ would be off antidepressants at this point in his life. MOM not giving him an allowance to pay out of pocket prescription expenses or doctor’s choice? If this is withdrawal side effect, got to wonder what the side effects are from taking the drug(s).

        • @jm:
          I can only speak for myself, but I have been a contact lens wearer for many years, and I do not roll my eyes like that. Most of the time your eyes get dry, and you have to apply Lens Lubricant to the lens to lubricate your lens. GZ has a nervous tick I believe. Good! His lies are being exposed every single day! He has lied without provocation on TM. He has identified him as a thug, and a fighter when TM is just the opposite of that! Why that boy lies still in his grave, he is still lying on that boy so I don’t care what happens to him!

  51. Malisha says:

    bmh: “I have known people that do the same thing he does.”

    Uh oh, be very careful! :roll:

  52. Malisha says:

    Hey where’s Patricia? I miss Patricia!

  53. Malisha says:

    Every jury pool goes into every trial thinking there was a crime that the prosecutors decided to prosecute, based on the fact that there was some kind of evidence of said crime, and that the defendant in question was the person the prosecutors thought the evidence pointed to as the perp. That’s the assumption of every jury. It has to be, because otherwise there would be no trial. So all this nonsense about the conduct of Crump, Jackson, anyone else, leading to the fact that George is a defendant facing criminal charges is utterly irrelevant. The forces that gathered to insist that the prosecution take a good look at the evidence in this case and arrest the person who admitted killing the victim in this case have been satisfied with the arrest and for the most part silent since the arrest. They are not demonstrating in the street for the conviction; they were demonstrating in the street for the ARREST.

    NOW, O’Mara gets up there and ADMITS that he is trying to influence the jury pool FOR his client but insists that it’s necessary for him to do that, because so much bad stuff has been said about his client.

    The bad stuff said about his client was the basis for the prosecutor to reexamine the evidence and conclude that a crime had been committed by the killer of the victim. It is natural for the jury to believe that the evidence was there in sufficient “critical mass” to lead to a charge. That would be “prima facie case” in terms of “amount of the evidence” or “weight of the evidence.” It is for the jury to decide whether that “prima facie case-worth” convinces them beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s a two-step. The first step has been taken by the public officials charged with responsibility to take it.

    Now it’s the job of the prosecutor to prove its case; it’s the job of the defense to defend. His complaints about all the bad things said are very silly. If the prosecution did not have evidence that something had happened bad enough for a charge to stick, then his remedy is a motion to dismiss the charges. Go at it, O’Mara. GO GO GO.

  54. Jun says:

    I dont get Omara’s complaints regarding what is said of his client. Its not like it is not true. What does Omara expect people to do? How do you make a guy who stalked and chased a kid before killing him, while the kid screamed for mercy, look nice? His job is to try the case in court and trial, not public opinion. Their complaints about media bias are unfounded. Take race out the equation and you still have a grown adult who should know better, stalking and chasing an unarmed kid with candy, then terrorizing and killing the kid. I am basing this just on phone calls to police that night and the fact Zimmerman openly admitted to killing the kid.

    Omara needs to go back to school on how to be a lawyer or read the law and the evidence. There’s more than reasonable belief and probable cause a murder had occurred because a huge part of murder is killing someone. The SYG statute even states the STATE is allowed to continue investigation and arrest on probable cause, which they did.

    This is a situation where its beyond a reasonable belief that the defendant is guilty of killing the kid but the defendant simply brought up a claim of self defense to justify it. I dont feel its justified and I feel he has no self defense claim and he simply staged it because he doesnt want to take responsibility.

    Omara also has to realize that since George has made allegations against Trayvon, it is still hearsay at this point because there is no evidence to back up what he said with the exception of George himself, and, his statement has not been admitted under oath and under cross examination to validate the credibility of the statement. Legally standing, he cant say Trayvon attacked George because it is unproven at this point. Trayvon also has an SYG right and all the other rights Omara is proclaiming for his client. Whats proven so far as the public eye is Zimmerman killed the kid, its not Zimmerman screaming for mercy, and Zimmerman targeted and stalked the kid and chased him.

    In conclusion, I still agree with Freddy that Omara is not ready for the prime time. He doesnt seem very ready and it seems like he just wanted the media whoring opportunities.

    • Xena says:

      I dont get Omara’s complaints regarding what is said of his client. Its not like it is not true.

      It’s nothing more than MOM taking up the treeslum’s agenda to argue that GZ was setup for arrest by “Black racists.”

      • Malisha says:

        Perhaps we shouldn’t discard out of hand the idea that George was set up for arrest. Figure it this way. He goes to NW meetings and carries on blah blah blah about all these young Black criminals. People get sick of hearing it. They decide to set him up to get arrested and then get to be the “most hated man in America.” First they arrange for a kid with no criminal record to get sent into the neighborhood and they buy the kid a hoodie. No prob. Then since they know that every Sunday night George and Shellie mentor kids and then go to the grocery store for their 40 cents’ worth of food for the week, they get the kid to go to the 7-11 and then chit chat with an unreliable girl (who posts unreliable stuff on twitter) under the mailbox hood. There are two kinda hoods in one paragraph, so far. Reached critical mass. George stops, sees all this suspicious stuff, calls NEN, who demand an address and instruct him to maintain visuals. All they have to do then is have the young thug attack George and bingo, a hollowpoint bullet practically gets magnetically sucked out of his unsuspecting gun and the kid’s dead and he’s set-up for a bunch of thug-supporting Black racists to frame him for murder.

        It COULD happen, you can’t deny that!

        • Xena says:

          It COULD happen, you can’t deny that!

          That’s one way of getting rid of the man using NW as a cover-up to conduct crime. I wonder if there have been any further break-in’s since GZ’s arrest?

      • Jun says:

        LMAO I dont get how they came up with the “black racists set him up”. How do you set someone up for the defendant to willingly target a kid with candy and ice tea? How do you set them up for the defendant to willingly stalk and chase after a kid who was running away, all the way down the back pathway? Zimmerman and his cult can spit all their T intersection tales but the fact remains he was found down the back pathway, and a few witnesses had Zimmerman chasing Trayvon northward toward the top of the T down the back pathway. They can also match the camera footage to the movements. I am starting to suspect that Conservative Treefoil Hat is run in conjunction with Larry Klayman, the man with the most frivolous lawsuits and baseless accusations in the history of America.

        • Xena says:

          LMAO I dont get how they came up with the “black racists set him up”. How do you set someone up for the defendant to willingly target a kid with candy and ice tea?

          Hey Jun. Come close. (whispering. It’s a secret, okay) Because since the good ol’ boys said there wasn’t sufficient evidence to arrest GZ, then the only reason he was arrested is because Blacks threatened to purchase Taaffee’s house at the foreclosure auction and move-in.

      • aussie says:

        Well, the only reason he COULD be set up was that he KILLED SOMEONE. If he hadn’t done that, nobody could have set him up

        . So, sorry George. it is back to it’s all on you.

        • Xena says:

          Well, the only reason he COULD be set up was that he KILLED SOMEONE. If he hadn’t done that, nobody could have set him up . So, sorry George. it is back to it’s all on you.

          I love being right! LOL!! Did you hear MOM’s argument today? Sure enough, he argued against the gag order on one basis, that it was a setup and he has the right to expose it.

          My next prediction is that Judge Nelson will grant the gag order in part and deny in part.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO

        Omara is an idiot LOL

        Its beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman targeted and stalked the kid by car, then said some disparaging remarks, the said shit he’s running, proceeds to chase the kid, and says he ran and he is running down the street, and continues to give chase. Zimmerman catches up with the kid and kills him.

        Based on that alone, it should not be surprising he is being charged with murder…

        A giant part of murder is the killing part…

        A giant part of self defense is not targeting someone and provoking and pursuing and forcing someone to be cornered and try to defend themselves and then killing the person

        How the hell is that a setup? Is there some secret mind control that black racists were able to get Zimmerman to target and chase a black kid? Were the cops the ones with this mind control device? LMAO

  55. Oh my goodness! I just read the summary of Dale Gilbreath’s interview with the school teacher. Did anyone else notice how she described GZ as being dressed: with a short-sleved shirt on! Not a jacket, a short-sleeved shirt! Didn’t another witness say that a man with a white shirt was on top? GZ’s tee shirt was a light grey. Why have I not read anything about this before???? Pg. 16 of 284: http://www.scribd.com/doc/99916379/Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

    • Jun says:

      I dont know how much truth there is to the white shirt man, but, Zimmerman did wear a white short sleeved shirt for the re-enactment where he did the tiger swipes. If there is any validity to that claim then Zimmerman may be able to plea bargain but I doubt the existence of the white shirt man.

    • Yes, there have been OTHER witnesses describing someone with a white T-shirt! I don’t know what to make of it either, but that was one of the reasons why there’s been discussions that GZ had help that night; someone might of been in the car with him, and why I think Osterman was in the ‘hood and DID NOT go home after the trip to the ATM.
      hmmm, i’m gonna look at that ATM video and see what he was wearing in it. But i do know it was kinda cold that night (for florida) but, if you’re running around chasing someone and your obese like Osterman was at the time, he could of easily taken off a jacket…

      • jm says:

        shannoninmiami said: “……….But i do know it was kinda cold that night (for florida) but, if you’re running around chasing someone and your obese like Osterman was at the time, he could of easily taken off a jacket.”

        Not sure who said it, but another poster here said Osterman had a dark colored shirt on that night. I don’t know if there are pictures of Osterman from the scene or the police station. I kind of thought the white shirt person might be a resident who rushed outside from inside their condo without stopping to put on a jacket.

      • Xena says:

        i’m gonna look at that ATM video and see what he was wearing in it.

        Black shirt — like a golf shirt with a collar.

  56. gbrbsb says:

    Origami ?

  57. Malisha says:

    That would explain several things, actually.

  58. Malisha says:

    OK I’ll do it this way; no, no, OK I know, I’ll do it this other way, OK, no, OK, well, now see I’ll do it THIS way, um…yeah, no –

    “Yes ma’am he punched me in the nose; I fell right down on my butt; no, I think I stumbled that way and tried to push him away; um, I followed him, no, no, I didn’t follow him, uh, no, I kind of went in the same direction where he was skipping, no, um, OK, yeah, but he wasn’t afraid, he wasn’t running from fear, see, um, no, I was going for an address…a street sign, no, um, let’s see, I saw him running toward the, um, no…they always get away…um, he — let’s see, um, no, I’m not racists, some of my best friends — that I mentor — are, um, well, they’re cops but they take breaks and buy donuts, no, sorry, that’s the other one, not this one — and maybe there was a sign, uh…no, my wife — we go shopping — um, NOT GUILTY.”

    “Oh, and put fifteen dollars into my sister’s account, OK?”

    • jm says:

      Brilliant synopsis Malisha.

    • Xena says:

      Malisha, add to that, “He had his hand in his waistband. Oh no, I didn’t say that because I thought he was armed. That other guy I called on put his hand in his jacket too — Uh, he pulled out a cigarette. I should have sho—- oh, um, I shot someone else.”

    • Jun says:

      I feel Judge Nelson will get George mad at trial and immunity hearing and we will see him flip out like the rapist at the other trial of Nelson. She has already had that effect on West and Omara LOL

      • Malisha says:

        O’Mara and West do NOT know how to talk in front of her. It’s half shocking and the other half pathetic. And she sits there and watches impassive. watches…watches…

        • jm says:

          I think West and O’Mara both underestimate Judge Nelson’s intelligence and try to get over on her but she very quickly puts them in their place.

        • Xena says:

          O’Mara and West do NOT know how to talk in front of her. It’s half shocking and the other half pathetic. And she sits there and watches impassive. watches…watches…

          They are condescending to Judge Nelson.
          What I did notice is how GZ attempts his intimidation stare-down on Judge Nelson. Most clients watch their legal counsel while they are talking, and then turn their eyes to the judge when the judge is talking. Not GZ.

      • Jun says:

        Every lawyer knows to be on their toes in her court. Looks like Omara never got the memo.

    • sdunn5 says:

      Absolutely beautifully put !!!!!!

  59. Xena says:

    Trent Sawyer, (stateoftheinternet) has posted both last week’s and today’s hearings on his website. Although he has the vids dated, I thought it might be a bit more convenient having all of the vids from today’s hearings together, so posted them on my blog.

    http://blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/10-26-2012-court-hearing-open-discussion/

  60. Xena says:

    Has anyone counted the number of times MOM said “Crump” in today’s hearing?

    • Jun says:

      I didnt watch it but he seems to be listening to the Conservative Tinfoil Hat, rather than being a lawyer. His plan is to blame every black person involved and then claim it is not about race LOL Anyhoo.. Omara should be worrying about the trial and immunity hearing not the media

      • Xena says:

        Anyhoo.. Omara should be worrying about the trial and immunity hearing not the media

        Did you see the look on his face when Bernie asked about how many days before trial to file motion for the immunity hearing?

        The exchange between those two communicated something — maybe Bernie knows that MOM is nervous about putting GZ on the stand, and MOM knows the same.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          They both know, from their talks at the bar (the one down the street where the lawyers hangout), that GZ is a cross examiners wet dream. Anyone who get’s to cross examine GZ, is going to become an instant celebrity lawyer. because it’s a can’t miss win-win situation. GZ can’t be taught, so no amount of coaching will do any good for the defense, and GZ has a proclivity to say things that are so utterly stupid, if this wasn’t about murder 2 of a child, he’d be breaking comedy central records for belly splitting laughs.

          • jm says:

            xena: “…….maybe Bernie knows that MOM is nervous about putting GZ on the stand, and MOM knows the same…..”.

            Lonnie: “They both know, from their talks at the bar ……”

            Anybody who watched Sean Hannity interview would know there is good reason to be nervous about letting GZ open his mouth. ( As Bernie said, he wants no gag for GZ, let him keep talking, it’s a “godsend” for the prosecution. I loved Bernie for making that point to the judge in front of GZ.)

      • Xena says:

        @Jun, btw, maybe that is why MOM and West booked tail at the end leaving GZ sitting all alone — because they now understand that they have to get down to doing their job rather than running after the treeslum’s conspiracy theories.

      • Jun says:

        How many days? I dont know how they book the immunity hearing.

      • Xena says:

        How many days? I dont know how they book the immunity hearing.

        I don’t remember the exact date in June for trial, but the defense has 45 days before that date to file for an immunity hearing — sometime in April.

      • Jun says:

        They can impeach Zimmerman at the immunity hearing. Zimmerman can spit his T intersection tales for days on end, but a few different witnesses place him forcing Trayvon north toward the T. Witness 11 believes she heard the altercation go around her place.

      • Xena says:

        They can impeach Zimmerman at the immunity hearing.

        The Professor can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think impeachment only applies to witnesses and not the defendant. When the defendant gives inconsistent statements, or/and testimony is inconsistent with previous statements to the cops, the State uses that argument to have immunity denied.

      • gblock says:

        I have a question. The LA Times online version article on this case reported that, “A Florida judge has set a tentative April date for a self-defense hearing”. Is that true, or is this a misunderstanding on the part of the reporter?

        • Xena says:

          I have a question. The LA Times online version article on this case reported that, “A Florida judge has set a tentative April date for a self-defense hearing”. Is that true, or is this a misunderstanding on the part of the reporter?

          MOM has 45 days before the tentative June 2013 trial date to file for an immunity hearing.

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      Xena said: Did you see the look on his face when Bernie asked about how many days before trial to file motion for the immunity hearing?

      I await Papa’s video with “Wimm away” accompaniment.

      • Xena says:

        Yeah! And MOM saying “um, um, um, um.”

        Is there a song titled 45 days? LOL!

      • I *THINK it was the Judge* who asked about the immunity hearing NOT Omar! That struck me b/c i’ve been thinking there won’t be one! When she started to do the dates she asked Omar if he wanted to set a time before the trial for an immunity hearing!! Then Omar started stuttering…I don’t think Omar brought the issue up first.

        I’ll go back and find out for sure. But i’m pretty sure i’m right :)
        BTW>anyone wanna wager on whether Omar has the immunity hearing or not? I’ll bet you $5 there will NOT be one!LOL

        Now, as far as a plea, i don’t see any benefit for GZ to take one. There are the mandatory sentences in FL 10-20-25 to life for use of a fire arm. IIRC it’s 10 years if you pull a gun in commission of a crime, 20 years if you fire it, and 25-life if you injure or kill someone. And i think this one is an enhancement since GZ killed a minor. But saw the commercials all the time a couple years ago…What kinda plea are you guys thinking of?

      • @Xena! Dang, you were right on about Bernie asking about the hearings!! LOL you have an elephant’s memory???
        And i just noticed Bernie laughing his ass off while that was going on too! I must of glanced away at the time! but he sure was giggling like a little school girl!?LOL and Omar tried to cover his ass by saying ‘how could i not!” hmmm? what was he thinking? was he thinking what you guys were saying here, that him and Omar were having a lil inside joke about getting GZ on the stand? Or was it that Bernie had to force Omar to acknowledge his BS about the SYG/ImHearing?

        And what kinda plea deal are you guys talking about? what choice would GZ have? I don’t see one..

        • Xena says:

          @Xena! Dang, you were right on about Bernie asking about the hearings!! LOL you have an elephant’s memory???

          LOL! It’s because I aspired to be a Della Street. We can’t count on attorneys remembering everything that takes place in court. :-)

          And i just noticed Bernie laughing his ass off while that was going on too! I must of glanced away at the time! but he sure was giggling like a little school girl!?

          It had to give him great pleasure to remind MOM what he said he was going to do, and pin him down to a date. Oh yes, he and MOM know that, (and as someone else here and the Professor has said), George Zimmerman is a cross examiner’s wet dream. MOM can avoid putting GZ on the stand at trial, but not at the immunity hearing.

          And what kinda plea deal are you guys talking about? what choice would GZ have? I don’t see one..

          GZ can plea murder 2 with 25 yrs as opposed to going to trial and being sentenced to life.

  61. Malisha says:

    Xena: “Maybe Bernie knows that MOM is nervous about putting GZ on the stand, and MOM knows the same.”

    For Bernie and MOM to NOT know that would be impossible.

    • Xena says:

      WHERE IS SHELLIE??

      Shellie Zimmerman. Shellie Zimmerman. Paging Shellie Zimmerman. Your husband needs you to support him when he is in court. His legal counsel left him sitting alone today. Or, is standing by your man only important if money is involved?

      Oh wait. You were arrested and charged with perjury, right? Your mom made the news simply because she is your mom and you are married to a man awaiting trial for murdering an unarmed 17 yr old 11th grader, right? Are you with your husband? Did you move back with mom? WHERE ARE YOU, SHELLIE?

      • Jun says:

        I thought Trayvon was grade 10.

        • Xena says:

          I thought Trayvon was grade 10

          I believe 11th. He would have started his senior year in August/September and graduated next year at the age of 18.

      • jm says:

        Could it be ShelLie has gained so much weight in proportion to her previous mug shot and GZ’s weight gain she may be embarrassed to show up? On top of that her perjury charges plus her mother’s arrest, maybe it is better ShelLIE remain under the rock she is hiding under? Don’t know SheLie’s motivation but she seems in a lose-lose position that she has put herself in. Hope the squeeze she may feel makes her squeal as to what happened on 02/26, but if not, I can only hope she serves some time along with a felony conviction.

        • Xena says:

          Don’t know SheLie’s motivation but she seems in a lose-lose position that she has put herself in. Hope the squeeze she may feel makes her squeal as to what happened on 02/26, but if not, I can only hope she serves some time along with a felony conviction.

          Makes me wonder if she and George are still together? I got the idea from his demand of Barbara Walters that the hotel room for a month was an attempt to make-up to ShelLIE to get them back together.

          • cielo62 says:

            Even though Shellie is a loser in her own right, she still deserves better than George. We will see if she finally wakes up and leaves that manipulating child murderer. It would be great if she spilled what she knows, but I don’t think she’ll go that far.

      • katieunc says:

        Wow……just reading comments here and there. I had no idea this case has more drama surrounding it than a telenovela! Michelle Dean DUI……Frank Taaffe DUI and a little DV…….Mark Osterman forced to resign for not following policy as a LEO…… and a wife who was a stay at home nursing student and professional liar……..these people put the DISS IN DYSFUNCTIONAL.

        • Xena says:

          Frank Taaffe DUI

          Also, house in foreclosure.

          Mark Osterman forced to resign for not following policy as a LEO

          Also, was conned by the con man and trying to con a car dealer to pay a finder’s fee to an Osterman friend for returning a stolen car to the dealer.

          …… and a wife who was a stay at home nursing student

          Yep, who has not attended school since 2010.

          these people put the DISS IN DYSFUNCTIONAL.

          Don’t leave out the older brother, Robert Jr., who says he left his job because of threats and the sister who had a government job but lost it after depositing money donated to GZ into her bank account.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- THERE’S someone I’d like to hear more about! It’s strange that she hasn’t followed the Zimmerman pattern of making a fool/ ass/ nuisance of herself in MSM. Based on that pattern , I want to ask “what’s wrong with her?”

          • Xena says:

            Xena- THERE’S someone I’d like to hear more about! It’s strange that she hasn’t followed the Zimmerman pattern of making a fool/ ass/ nuisance of herself in MSM. Based on that pattern , I want to ask “what’s wrong with her?”

            You mean ShelLIE? She is advocating for GZ. I suspect she is the one posting as Justthefacts or a similiar handle over on the treeslum. That person claims to know and be a friend of GZ’s, but we know we have heard from all of his “friends” with the exception of ShelLIE.

          • jm says:

            Is OdessaGirl ShelLIE?

          • Xena says:

            Is OdessaGirl ShelLIE?

            I haven’t visited the treeslum often, and don’t remember an “OdessaGirl” posting there. It was on this blog that someone suggested that OdessaGirl was Sondra Osterman and I think she was commenting on Orlando Sentinel, claiming to have inside info that was going to blow the case around Sept. That would be around the time that the Osterman’s book was released. The case has not blown-up so apparently whatever they hoped the book to accomplish didn’t.

        • cielo62 says:

          Now THAT sounds like a plan! A made-for-TV telenovela with the happy ending of Georgie in jail! The script almost writes itself: GZ himself offers a multitude of story lines!

          • jm says:

            cielo62: “The script almost writes itself: GZ himself offers a multitude of story lines!”

            Who will be cast to play GZ?

          • cielo62 says:

            LOL! Just about anybody with a basketball shaped head. Too bad Charlie Brown was a fictional character. They both are losers and have the same type of head!

      • Jun says:

        Taffe is also a known stalker and had to get a restraining order put on him

      • katieunc says:

        XENA…. thanks for putting the frosting on the dysfunctional cake….lol. what kind of jo did Jr have? I also wonder if MO is really a fed air marshall? My husband is active duty military and I just don’t see how osterman could keep his job with all of this associating with the zimmermans. MO seemed very proud that he helped GZ, right down to the gun of choice. He just seems stupid to me??? Always keep your gun on you so kids don’t get their hands on it……pleeeeze. I was raised with guns that we used to hunt, we had a gun safe…….common sense if you own guns? These people are disgusting!

        • Xena says:

          XENA…. thanks for putting the frosting on the dysfunctional cake….lol. what kind of jo did Jr have?

          There was a rumor that Junior is a licensed attorney in Florida, but he has since said in an interview that he was residing in Virginia on 2/26/12. IOWs, he never said what type of work he did, but half the nation was suppose to know where he worked so he had to quit his job.

          I also wonder if MO is really a fed air marshall?

          Actually, after someone here commented there is no record of Osterman’s employment as a fed air marshal, I went back to his statement. It says that he is employed as a (redacted). The context provides it gave a name for the position, and the first letter which was not completely blacked-out appears to be an “i”. What we do know about whatever type of job Osterman had or has, he was able to stay up all night until GZ left the police station, accompany him the next day for his voice stress test, accompany him to the re-enactment, and both times he was released from jail on bond.

          MO seemed very proud that he helped GZ, right down to the gun of choice.

          Of course, because Osterman is also a bully, as he showed on Dr. Phil’s show.

          He just seems stupid to me??? Always keep your gun on you so kids don’t get their hands on it……pleeeeze.

          That advice from Osterman was kinda strange seeing that GZ and ShelLIE have no children.

      • grahase says:

        Osterman said he was an Air Marshall on his Facebook page. I think Osterman meant the so-called mentored brother and sister when he talked about GZ carrying his gun with him because kids would not have an opportunity to get it.

        • Xena says:

          Osterman said he was an Air Marshall on his Facebook page.

          I can’t disagree because I did not see his FB page, but if he did that, he would be in violation of the confidentiality of Air Marshals.

          I think Osterman meant the so-called mentored brother and sister when he talked about GZ carrying his gun with him because kids would not have an opportunity to get it.

          If they were “mentoring” in their home, then I highly question if it was “mentoring.” Also, they were supposedly doing that on Sunday evenings. What about Monday through Saturday before and after work? Something is amiss with Osterman’s advice to GZ.

      • grahase says:

        Dont forget how protective GZ is when it comes to his wife. She is probably at their new digs watching the hearing on TV safe and sound as per her instructions from GZ. He didn’t want her visiting him in jail either worried about her safety. Watching him on TV gets her a better view of her lovie-dovie anyway.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Hiding under a rock somewhere. Since she was charged she’s filed 4-5 waivers of appearance for her court proceedings. I doubt she’ll be at the next one in december.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        She’s smart to stay out of the limelight. I feel bad for her (to a point) and wonder if she considers bailing from her marriage.

        • jm says:

          “I feel bad for her (to a point) and wonder if she considers bailing from her marriage.”

          The only way I will ever feel sorry for ShelLIE is if she comes clean and testifies as to what went on that night.

          As long as she remains quiet, ShelLIE is helping the person who killed Trayvon Martin and a perjurer who I suspect was hoping to live a good life with GZ in another country with the Paypal income and the ensuring he had the extra passport and helped to hide money from the court.

          To me she looks cold and without a soul based on her mug shot. But that’s my humble opinion based on her picture and her actions.

          • Xena says:

            I suspect was hoping to live a good life with GZ in another country with the Paypal income and the ensuring he had the extra passport and helped to hide money from the court

            You know,JM, that speaks volumes about ShelLIE and possible conversations they had before GZ was arrested. Maybe, all along they had planned on fleeing the country and GZ’s website asking for money was to make that possible — because he had not been charged when he launched it.

        • @Twp: Feel sorry for her? She is complicit in this sordid story just as her stupid husband. Both were and are lazy good nothing individuals who had their parents paying their rent, as they avoided any responsibility for anything in their lives. Is her self esteem so low or has GZ brow beat her to the point that she would lie,steal and keep silent for him? There is not a man in this world worth that in IMO. She needs to come free her mind and soul, denounce GZ. He used her and abused her and now her life may be ruined because of his actions. Shellie has ducked, dodged and weaved and just sat there while she lets GZ destroy her life, with her permission! wake up Shellie! You are facing 5 years in prison and postponing your hearings is only postponing the enevitable.

          • jm says:

            DGM says: “Shellie has ducked, dodged and weaved and just sat there while she lets GZ destroy her life, with her permission.”

            That is why I have no pity whatsoever for ShelLIE. It seems she also has no ambition and was nowhere close to getting her degree in nursing, dropping out of school in 2010 according to records. A neighbor described her as a “stay at home student” whatever that means. She was looking for an easy way out and in her less than intelligent mind it was GZ and his Paypal racist funds and the hidden passport..

          • Xena says:

            That is why I have no pity whatsoever for ShelLIE.

            ShelLIE was calculatingly dishonest. “Not to my knowledge” was an effort get away with the lie. When she felt cornered, she pointed her finger at her “brother-in-law.”

      • Dave says:

        I suspect that her lawyer instructed her to keep her mouth shut and avoid communicating with George or anyone associated with him until after her case is wrapped up.

      • looneydoone says:

        Where’s zim’s mama ??
        Are there 3 or is it 4 zimmerman children ?
        Robt Jr born 1980
        george born 1983
        Gracie born 1986
        ……wasn’t there mention of a Dawn ??
        Who’s the half sister ? How old is she ?? The zimmerman’s were married Dec 1975…..is the half sister the eldest of them all 8 + years older than gz ?

        I’m asking because “sister Susie” on the jail house phone calls has a mature voice.

      • sdunn5 says:

        Shellie was out in the rental van where O’Mara found George attempting to saw off his GPS anklet with his leatherman tool (no offense Professor) after a failed attempt by Shellie who tried to chew it off. Hence the lateness to court with that pesky GPS excuse.

        • Xena says:

          Shellie was out in the rental van where O’Mara found George attempting to saw off his GPS anklet with his leatherman tool (no offense Professor) after a failed attempt by Shellie who tried to chew it off. Hence the lateness to court with that pesky GPS excuse.

          LOL@sdunn5. Actually, that wouldn’t surprise me. John Goodman tried taking off his GPS ankle bracelet and ended up back in jail while awaiting appeal. Maybe GZ had been playing around with it.

    • Jun says:

      Zimmerman = will lose cool on the stand

      Next story will be Trayvon was doing the Gangnam Style dance away from him

  62. Malisha says:

    I’d love to see a LLMPapa video in which all that appears is cuts of O’Mara from today’s hearing saying the syllable “Crump” — maybe just a series of still frames each time he said “Crump” with the pose he was in at that moment. Crump Crump Crump Crump Crump.

    How would it be to this music:

    or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFl4YcvCz7Q

  63. ElleJay says:

    Xena–

    –wasn’t it george’s sister gracie who lost her great gov’t job (b/c she quit..)

    —and long lost (never mentioned by robZ Sr) ….sister dawn (married to the guy (“ken” scott wilson, he was in charge of the money transfers/paypal acct ) who was involved in the “peter pan” scheme..

    • Xena says:

      @ElleJay.

      Xena– –wasn’t it george’s sister gracie who lost her great gov’t job (b/c she quit..) —and long lost (never mentioned by robZ Sr) ….sister dawn (married to the guy (“ken” scott wilson, he was in charge of the money transfers/paypal acct ) who was involved in the “peter pan” scheme..

      On Papa and Mama Zim’s website, they mention that their daughter lost her government job. That infers that she was terminated, and it sounds as though that happened after it was revealed that she transferred money donated to GZ into her own bank account.

      I have not heard of a “dawn” and in fact, assumed when ShelLIE spoke about her brother-in-law, that it was Robert Jr. She might have a sister named Dawn who is married to Ken. Who knows? I’ve not been inclined to research GZ’s and ShelLIE’s family because for one, since they can’t keep their mouths shut, we will no doubt hear about or see them eventually.

  64. Xena says:

    O’Mara, West, and George Zimmerman arriving late for court.

    • rachael says:

      LOL. Zimmerman, Osterman and Taaffe. That hand, hat and cane, so much like Zimmerman folding paper.

    • cielo62 says:

      This is why they were late:
      MOM: listen George. You need to be quiet in court.
      GZ: … But…
      West: we’re an it George. Just stay quiet.
      GZ: ..but….
      MOM: don’t talk! Keep busy, fold paper, do ANYTHING but talk!
      GZ: .. But…
      West: just STFU!

      They finally went inside after a failed attempt to apply duct tape.

  65. Malisha says:

    Here fold this paper.

    [fold unfold peer at it unfold fold turn fold peer fold]

    NO NO NO Fold this paper.

    [fold turn peer fold unfold peer concentrate peer]

    FOLD THIS FUCKIN PAPER HOMIE!

    [agilely reach for my loaded side-arm and while being sat on, beaten, smashed, bloodied and smothered, and while screaming HELP HELP HELP, deftly reach to the right side of my tush, sweep my gun out of its holster, aim, avoid shooting my other hand, and land one straight front to back at no angle at all into the heart of the homie who's spent the last minute killing me with his bare bloodless hands]

    OK then.

  66. Malisha says:

    I’d love to see a LLMPapa video in which all that appears is cuts of O’Mara from today’s hearing saying the syllable “Crump” — maybe just a series of still frames each time he said “Crump” with the pose he was in at that moment. Crump Crump Crump Crump Crump.

    How would it be to this music:

  67. Malisha says:

    O’Mara is fighting the “My client should never have been charged in the first place” battle because he knows the “My client did not commit Murder-2″ battle is pretty close to unwinnable. He doesn’t mind the fact that the battle he CHOOSES to fight is not the one on the agenda because he is following his OWN agenda. Everybody knows that if you have done wrong, the best way to get away with it is to have those who would be responsible for punishing you just decide not to do so — that’s been the way the American South has dealt with the “shadow slavery” they have enforced since the late 1800s and it won’t change now. That has been the reason that slavery could only really be attacked by use of the federal civil rights act of 1871 that imposed FINANCIAL hardship on recalcitrant jurisdictions who were not punishing masters who refused to comply with emancipation laws.

    O’Mara knows that there is no available method to just get out of the charges because for a viable self-defense claim, he has to put George on the stand, and since the second bail hearing when Judge Lester refused to exempt his client from the “burden” of cross-examination, he has shown us all that he realizes he dassn’t DARE let George get up on the stand and open his fool mouth.

    So what O’Mara has left is what? Get the charges dismissed because the cops working for Lee were RIGHT to not charge George and everything that happened thereafter was the result of a Crump Crump Crump Crump Crump Crump Crump and it’s not fair and he has to fight to oppose it and it’s his absolute right.

    He cannot defend George Zimmerman.

    Therefore he wants the State to have to stop prosecuting George Zimmerman.

    He can’t just go and kidnap Corey and hold her hostage until the state drops the charges, so all he CAN do is what he IS doing.

    It really gripes his a55 that the FBI’s investigation is something he cannot manipulate to his position, because if the FBI were to come out with a finding that:

    “Trayvon Martin was a thug who tried to kill George Zimmerman, giving rise to the obvious fact that George had to kill him in self-defense, which means that under Florida law, George should never have been charged and he’s not a racist, and all those racists who demonstrated in support of the FDLE prosecuting George are hereby disbarred and otherwise disempowered until further notice and nobody may petition their government for redress of wrongs and so there, with costs payable to Mr. O’Mara who will hereby receive the Congressional Medal of Honor, OYEZ OYEZ OY YOY YOY.”

    Then everything would be all right and he wouldn’t have to go to court and explain things to Judge Nelson any more and he WOULDN’T have to go through a SYG hearing or a self-defense hearing or a trial.

    Furthermore, since the prosecution shouldn’t have arrested George in the first place, they shouldn’t have a chance to put on any evidence. It stands to reason.

    • rachael says:

      You nailed it!

      • jm says:

        It’s all smoke and mirrors with blah-blah-blah noise for the Zimmerman defense team.

        In other words, pay no attention our weasel client who profiled, followed and killed an innocent teen walking home from the convenience store, focus on Crump, Jackson, the victim’s social media and his school records, the prosecution team, the FBI, DOJ, the Sanford police………………………. etc.

      • rachael says:

        Exactly. Just like she says. If you concentrate on “My client should never have been charged in the first place” battle

        You can forget that there was another witness who can’t get on the stand and tell his side.

    • Jun says:

      I dont feel the judge or any judge will buy that idiotic crap. I’d just tell Omara to prove it in trial and immunity hearing because the LEO’s and the special prosecutor assigned by the Governor followed the book to a T.

      • Xena says:

        I dont feel the judge or any judge will buy that idiotic crap. I’d just tell Omara to prove it in trial and immunity hearing because the LEO’s and the special prosecutor assigned by the Governor followed the book to a T.

        Jun, that is pretty much what Judge Nelson did when she went into scheduling pre-trial motions. Did you see the smile on Bernie’s face when she did and MOM’s nervousness when he had to give her how many days before trial to file motion for immunity?

  68. Malisha says:

    Can you just see the SYG hearing? O’Mara opens the hearing by prancing around a little and carrying on about Crump. Then he puts Officer Ayala on the stand.

    O’Mara: Would you have charged GZ with a crime, yes or no?”
    Ayala: No.
    OM: No further questions.
    Judge: Cross?
    Bernie: No questions.

    Then OM puts Officer Smith on the stand.

    O’Mara: Would you have charged GZ with a crime, yes or no?”
    Smith: No.
    OM: No further questions.
    Judge: Cross?
    Bernie: No questions.

    etc. Officer Santiago, etc. Officer whatever, whatever, whatever.

    Then the defense rests.

    JUDGE: You’re not going to put your client on the stand?

    OM: Your Honor, no, because he shouldn’t have been charged with a crime, so he shouldn’t have to be here in the first place, so I’m not going to make matters worse by forcing him to testify.

    Judge: I’ll make my ruling by Friday. Thank you.

    • cielo62 says:

      In his DREAMS! Unfortunately for MOM there is this annoying little thing called “evidence”. Maybe MOM hopes he’ll end up in another “Twilight Zone” reality. There’s no hope otherwise.

  69. SearchingMind says:

    I hope the gag order will NOT be granted because granting it will be very good for Zimmerman. If the gag order is granted, Zimmerman’s counsels will finally get to concentrate on the case, start studding the evidence meticulously and strategizing on how to win the case in the court of law. Without the gag order, defense counsels will continue to do what they have been doing up till now, i.e. fund-raising, palling-around with red-necks, looking for Trayvon’s school records, twitter accounts, FB-pages, addresses of his parents in an effort to force them into hiding, picking fight with Mr. Crump and Nathalie Jackson, chasing after every mouse Crump and Jackson put out there until they SUDDENLY realize: ‘hey, its April 2013 and they are not yet quite prepared for the SYG-/self-defense hearing’.

    • SearchingMind says:

      …. start studying … not: studding

    • rachael says:

      You have a good point there. The more they “talk,” the bigger hole they dig, the better chance of doing something stupider than they did the time before. They will hang themselves with their own rope.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Unfortunately there’s no way to win the case, no matter how meticulously they study the evidence. Which is why they’re resorting to theater, it’s all they have. All they can do is hope to keep the donors alive and kicking in, because the case is a total disaster. NEN told GZ “We don’t need you to do that”, but he did anyway. MOM told GZ “I don’t need you to do that”, but GZ went ahead and did the interviews anyway. Now the prosecution is saying “Hey GZ, you gave us enough to put your next 25 generation behind bars… So we don’t need you to say anymore!”
        Any wonder why GZ’s generations 26 thru 30 are biting their nails? :laughing:

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s my understanding that gag orders are rarely granted.

      • Xena says:

        It’s my understanding that gag orders are rarely granted.

        My prediction, granted in part, denied in part. It was my impression that Judge Nelson was not happy with GZ’s legal team asking supporters to scour the web for them, neither MOM’s “If you would do the same as George” appeal. She might order a gag order on social media. That would limit MOM to press conferences.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That’s a good thought, Xena. Clearly she didn’t want to make a decision on the spot, so maybe she’ll do something creative.

        • Xena says:

          Clearly she didn’t want to make a decision on the spot, so maybe she’ll do something creative.

          When judges hear argument that is based on case law, they generally take time to write out a decision setting forth how the case law applies or is inapplicable to the facts presented. MOM argued “The Crump reason” for his “facts” and then went into arguing a case (Gentile??) that, based on what I heard and remember him arguing, has nothing to do with a defense attorney using the internet and social media to ask the public for money for their client for the reasons MOM has on the gzlegaldefense site.

          Certainly, a defense attorney does not rely on the public to give him ideas on how to proceed in defending his client. It’s not as though any of GZ’s supporters were witnesses.

  70. SearchingMind says:

    @ Malisha
    Malisha, I do not agree with your explanation of O’Mara’s inability to put up an effective defense for Zimmerman – yet. I think O’Mara’s inadequacies have more to do with his limited intellectual reach, rather than the strength of the evidence facing Zimmerman. As the professor once speculated, O’Mara is not ready for this kind of cases – yet. If one accept your explanation of O’Mara as true, one must by necessity conclude that O’Mara has already given up. And that will be serious malpractice.

  71. SearchingMind says:

    O’Mara has till April 25 2013 to file for SYG-/self-defense hearing. The pendulum clock has started swinging, with each swing striking fear into the heart of Zimmerman – as Our ‘Lady Justice’ approaches, closing in fast on him, with a quiet, cold look in her eyes and her Sword of Vengeance drawn. O’Mara can do two things now: (a) let O’Mara the lawyer- or (b) the retards of the conservative-ghetto-house (I guess the right word is conservative tree house, but I am not quite sure) continue to run the legal defense of Zimmerman. As I said before, NO case is air-tight. Defense counsels have not shown that they have figured out this case (yet) and seem to be all over the map chasing after conspiracy theories. Watching the hearing yesterday I could not rid myself of the thought that Zimmerman has two Mediocres with ‘Esquire’ attached to their names representing him. Apparently defense counsels (D. West) think that DeeDee is the core of the prosecution’s case! Apparently defense counsels think that destroying DeeDee’s credibility will blow the prosecution’s case apart. Apparently these two Albert-Einsteins think that the opinions of police officers for not charging Zimmerman with a crime is evidence of ‘no-crime’ committed (and vice versa)! With defense counsels like these, Zimmerman might be better off hanging on to his Chaplet recanting ‘Ave Maria gratia plena …’ until the trial. He (Zimmerman) really might need some miracles.

    • rachael says:

      I was going to admonish you for your use of the word retard until I went to the outhouse and saw this:

      this case is no longer the state vs zimmerman because it is
      actually the state vs dd. according to the latest discoveries, basically we can summarize that all evidences collected by the state have basically supported zimmerman except for dd which was not collected by the state. The whole trial will completely depend on dd vs the police and medical departments of sanford. good luck corey because her failure will lead to disbarment.

      The one above (over there) it isn’t much better, but then it is by the same yahoo.

      • Jun says:

        They fail to realize that the evidence authenticates and verifies each other. They also fail to realize the Zimmerman T intersection ever changing tall tale is idiotic and is one of the reasons that Zimmerman trapped himself with his own words. As much as they want to deny it, Deedee was on the phone with Trayvon.

      • Malisha says:

        That is totally idiotic, even for the Outhouse crowd. The evidence of murder would have been exactly the same if Trayvon had NOT been on the phone; the only additional point that comes out by DeeDee having been on the phone with him until the point when that call was dropped is that NO WAY was Trayvon planning a show-nuff-gangsta-bare-handed-ofay-killing while he was still chit-chatting with the lil-lady from Miami Gardens.

        Even without the phone call we have:
        Ill will frm the NEN call;
        Following from the NEN call;
        No need for self-defense from the physical forensics;
        Deliberate killing from the angle and distance of the bullet.

        It’s a Q.E.D. DeeDee just makes it a Q.E.DeeDeeDee.

  72. rachael says:

    Hmmm:

    O’Mara Law Group

    Areas of Practice

    Criminal Law
    DUI/DWI
    White Collar Crimes
    Family Law
    Child Support
    Custody & Visitation
    Divorce
    **Internet – Cyberspace**
    Alternative Dispute Resolution

    Certified Legal Specialties
    Criminal Trial Specialist, Florida Bar, 1996
    Board Certified, Criminal Trial Lawyer, Florida Bar Board of Legal Specialization and Education
    Certified Circuit Civil and Family Mediator, Florida Supreme Court
    Marital and Family Law, Florida Bar, 2011

    http://www.markomaralaw.com/Attorney-Profile/Mark-M-O-mara.shtml

    • Groans says:

      But did you notice his motto:
      “Helping good people through difficult times.”

      And:
      “Good people can find themselves in bad situations, facing criminal charges. Mark is an Orlando criminal defense attorney who can help.”
      http://www.markomaralaw.com/

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That’s a pretty common hook for criminal defense attorneys. They certainly don’t want to make their clients look like criminals. And some good people do end up getting charged or overcharged in this nation of extensive laws and prisons for profit.

      • Jun says:

        I agree that sometimes innocent people get paraded by the system but this case simply is not that. Zimmerman did not act in self defense. He can spit all his lies about the T intersection and deciding to give up his pursuit or he never intended on following in the first place but he still got out of his car to chase after a kid running away from him, whom Zimmerman told police 3 times on his phone call that night that the kid was running from him or running. Zimmerman ends up where the kid is and he kills the kid and witnesses also see parts of what happened. The crying and moaning and yelling and screaming for help was Trayvon and no amount of lying from both Robert Jr and Sr is going to change that, because at the end of the day, the screams were silenced by a gun shot.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree, Jun.

  73. LLMPapa says:

    Yesterday, upthread aways, FactsFirst posted an interview of O’Mara that I had never seen. What this defense counsel says is unbelievable to me and is the subject of this vid:

    • rachael says:

      God you’re good!!!

    • jm says:

      Brilliant as always. Is there any way you can get this video to MOM?

    • ladystclaire says:

      I really “LOVE” your videos and the truth they tell about the night George Zimmerman “MURDERED” a child and now he is trying to “LIE” his way out of it with the help of his “LYING” attorney, as well as his “LYING” friends and family. it is all so “UNBELIEVABLE!” keep up the good work.

      • @ladystclaire & LLMPapa:
        I have to agree with you lady, and Papa, bless you! I just viewed your latest video, and it is the bomb! GZ knows good and well, that he shot TM without provocation and then conspired with his buddies to fabricate a story to avoid being arrested, convicted and incarcerated. The evidence points to his guilt but how is he going to explain that 911 phone call with TM screaming, begging and pleading for mercy, and the dialogue that we all hear? Peace to you all!

    • Xena says:

      So now we know why MOM is going down a rabbit hole with “My client should have never been charge” rather than concentrating on a defense based on the evidence — because forensic evidence supports that GZ lied.

      Thanks LLMPapa. The thrill is most certainly gone for GZ and his legal team.

    • Mike says:

      LLMpapa king of exposing lies thanks

  74. Groans says:

    Back in June, when he did that interview, he fancied himself interested in “objective evidence.”

    But, based on a quote from yesterday’s hearing, he is now far less enamored with evidence about the events of 2/26. He’s moved on to bigger and better delusions:

    “‘I contend to you that the case against Mr. Zimmerman was created for reasons far outside the facts of what happened that night’ and was driven by ‘political influence,’ O’Mara said.”

    Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-trial-20121026,0,4628900.story

    • Jun says:

      I think if Omara goes down that path all he will find is the politicians want it safe for kids to walk home without being stalked by a deranged person and that proper investigation needs to be done because they dont want people to randomly kill and misuse the SYG law because it puts the community in a dangerous position.

      Besides…. 776.032

      (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The Treehouse has ranted on about the political stuff, so OM has to satisfy their ideas to keep donations flowing.

    • LLMPapa says:

      And I contend to you, sir, that your defense of Mr. Zimmerman is created FAR outside the facts of what happened that night and is driven by money.

      • Jun says:

        The more I hear Omara, the more I think he is an idiot. All the people asked for was a proper investigation, an arrest, and a fair hearing under an impartial judge and jury. George did target, stalk, chase, and kill a kid.

        The fact of the matter is Omara is a representative of the case and so is the State, and the State has only issued the capias for arrest, announced the charges after their investigation, and put forth the probable cause affidavit. Everyone else speaking on the case is not involved with the actual murder charge, so their actions are not as of utmost importance as Omara himself and the State. Omara’s job is to try the case in the court of law, not the media.

        Even then, all Crump has stated is his opinion, and he has not disparaged George and simply stated facts, because it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that George killed the kid and had targeted and stalked and got out his car and chased the kid before the killing occurred. Then the evidence came out. People can simply put 2 and 2 together. Plus, what Crump says has no bearing because he is not the one trying the case, and the issue is not a rivalry between him and Crump.

        The media has based their reports on the evidence only, and that is it. If Omara wants to talk about the case in the media so much, he should not have taken the case and simply speak on the case like Nejame has. Crump is also not bias nor is the media, as they based their findings on the evidence and the evidence only, and it is truth. Omara on the otherhand picks and chooses what he wants to present to have a one sided view.

      • LLMPapa….Off topic but just a suggestion for a song to accompany a video….”Smiling Faces Sometimes” by the Undisputed Truth. Another version (longer and slower) was recorded by the Temptations. Both were recorded in 1971 on Motown. I believe both may be on You-Tube.

    • LLMPapa says:

      “I contend to you that the case against Mr. Zimmerman was created for reasons far outside the facts of what happened that night’ and was driven by political influence”, amounts to nothing more than defense rhetoric essentially saying “yea, he killed him and he’d of gotten away with it too if it hadn’t been for Ben Crump”.

      All I can say is God bless Benjamin Crump for not allowing that to happen.

  75. Zhickel says:

    Hi Fred, I have a question.

    How common is it for the state/district attorneys to press ahead with charges after the police have decided not to charge?

    Is this a really rare occurrence or something that happens regularly?

    What possible value could it be to the defence to rely on a consensus of opinion from the officers involved in the case before the State Attorney came on board? I can only see value if a situation like this happens so infrequently it becomes notable.

    I suspect O’Mara hasn’t carefully thought out where this path may lead him. The reality is that Zimmerman HAS been charged and no consensus from the LEOs is going to change that fact. I doubt whether putting the officers, no matter how lax they were in their duties or investigations, on the defensive, is a good move.

  76. ok, I’ve been thinking about something, don’t know if you guys have discussed it already, so i’ll ask anyway. I don’t think i’m gonna like the answers and that’s why i haven’t brought it up…

    But anyway, If GZ said after he shot Trayvon he jumped on him and threw Trayvon on his belly then spread Tray’s arms out- because he thought he had something in his hands suddenly,> that’s just sickening; i fuckin hate that POS, and then held him down, while someone was coming with a flash light. How did Trayvon’s hands get underneath his body- like the cops said they saw when they arrived?
    GZ didn’t help him, he was too busy worrying about his stupid self, asking the witness if he had enough blood on his face, and telling everyone NOT to call 911, but to come and help him hold this kid down!

    We know the cops tried CPR for a second, but that was later.

    • Xena says:

      How did Trayvon’s hands get underneath his body- like the cops said they saw when they arrived? </blockquote?

      GZ lied. He rolled Trayvon's body over to see whether the bullet went through his back. GZ never spread out Trayvon's arms. That was a CYA story just in case his DNA showed up on Trayvon's wrists from when he placed the take-down maneuver on him.

    • Jun says:

      Zimmerman’s actions are very suspect and prove a depraved mind in him asking random strangers and witnesses to hold a kid down that he just shot and not call police and try to make sure his face had blood. That further makes me believe his injuries are staged.

      • That’s exactly what he did. GZ held Trayvon down at gun point. then grabbed his shirt so he could point, aim and shoot Trayvon right there. Trayvon, at the last minute, screamed as GZ pulled the trigger. Then Trayvon rolled onto his belly grasping his chest in pain.
        GZ then basically stomped on his neck with his knee and held him there until he saw someone coming..

        That nonchalant attitude he has in the video above is really disturbing, unbelievable. It’s like he’s explaining to a neighbor what happened last night when he shot some stray rabid dog! He’s the center of attention. He’s enjoying it. He’s not nervous at all. He’s chatty, excited actually. He’s convinced he’s one of the gang now. He’s already talked to his father and Osterman and now he’s just hanging with the gang talking about what happened to HIM last night!
        HE needs to be put down now because he has no remorse AT ALL! GZ is the rabid dog.

      • ladystclaire says:

        He even ask one of the by standers at the scene, ” if he was bleeding!” now, if he was beaten within an inch of his “MISERABLE” life, why in hell would he have to ask someone else if he was bleeding. I believe his injuries were staged also, there is no way that a person who has truly been injured in an altercation such as he described, will that person have to ask if he was bleeding!

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t believe the cops tried CPR either; none of the other witnesses said that, only the cops said that. I think the reason the cops want to testify for the defense is that they want this to go away so they won’t be in trouble with the Feds for the cover-up.

      Trayvon’s hands were under him because George shot him when he was on his back on the ground, but then George thought, “uh oh what if the bullet passed all the way through and went into the ground and they can find it, uh oh uh oh!” so he turned Trayvon over onto his chest face down on the ground to check for an exit wound, and not finding any, got up off the body and was satisfied that his false story was good enough. If the bullet HAD exited, he would have had to make up some other kind of story. When he THEN found that he had to explain being on top of Trayvon because some witnesses SAW THAT, he said that he “lunged on top” of Trayvon after shooting because he was afraid Trayvon was still going to hurt him, and he spread his hands out to see what was in his hands because “when he was hitting me it felt like he had something in his hands.” A transparent lie.

      • Jun says:

        I dont know how deep it is because I am not FBI or DOJ, obviously, but considering the evidence, whether true or not, their story of there not being enough evidence at the time to charge Zimmerman, has them off the hook. I am sure the cops lawyers are going to tall them the same thing. & the cops listed for Omara’s motion have been denied and their opinions at the time are not evidence. Omara also has to prove in court everything before its even considered as relevant.

      • Jun says:

        I actually believe that Omara is simply getting the cops because he wants to try the case before the trial.

        • Xena says:

          I actually believe that Omara is simply getting the cops because he wants to try the case before the trial.

          He wants to try another case — Zimmerman v. Crump, and Judge Nelson isn’t having it.

      • Xena says:

        …and he spread his hands out to see what was in his hands because “when he was hitting me it felt like he had something in his hands.”

        Which is one reason I cannot figure out why GZ wasn’t arrested right after the re-enactment — BECAUSE — how on earth can anyone place one hand over your nose, their other hand over your mouth as GZ demonstrated, but still be holding something? And, why didn’t GZ feel an object going down his chest rather than a hand going for a gun that’s on your hip?

        Naw! I still say he made that up to CYA in the event he left DNA on Trayvon’s wrist from locking it to take him down.

      • grahase says:

        I wonder if they took the materials used to clean the blood off Zimmerman’s face sent it in for DNA analysis. Obviously, if 45% of his face was smeared with blood, the blood didn’t come from his minor so-called wounds. I would bet the blood used to make things look worse was taken from Trayvon after the shooting. Someone did see him with both hands covering his face as he walked away toward the T after he straddled Trayvon and pressed the last breaths out of Trayvon. He was allowed to go to the washroom and I would bet he washed away the blood and any other evidence from his hands. I also wonder if they took GZs pants and checked for Trayvon’s DNA in the crotch area. Is there still evidence to come into discovery.

      • Jun says:

        Yeah I have always theorized that Zimmerman may have staged his SYG by using Trayvon’s blood on his face and head. There is no way those tiny cuts produced all that blood. A witness did state they saw Zimmerman simply be on top of Trayvon, shooting him, throwing the kid facedown and sitting on his back asphyxiating him, and then simply rising up and then fiddling with his head and face.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Could have been the phone in his hand.

      • Xena says:

        There is no way those tiny cuts produced all that blood.

        I wonder that too. I’m not in the medical profession, and question how the blood could dry that quick, yet have fresh blood on the face and head. Also, I wonder if the State interviewed any of GZ’s co-workers for how he appeared that Friday at work, because those face scratches look as though they were already scalping — could have been several days old.

        Something in Trayvon’s hands????? If anything, GZ dropped his key chain and Trayvon picked it up and stabbed him in the head with it when GZ was on top of him. It is still puzzling how that key chain got so far from the rest of the debris field, and why GZ makes no mention of it in all of his statements.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Forget any attack on GZ by Trayvon, Trayvon simply isn’t the kind of kid to attack any adult, he won’t even attack children who are younger, smaller or his own age. He’s non-violent, bookish and even smaller children love him because they feel safe around him.

          Nope, it just isn’t in Trayvon’s personality to attack or fight with anyone. So, none of that ever happened at all. GZ knew, when he first confronted Trayvon that he had a harmless child on his hands that he was attacking and calling a thug. If the police had arrived they would have known immediately by Trayvon Martins appearance and manner, that he was not a problem like the people they usually deal with. He was a respectful child who would have addressed them as Sir! GZ knew that his description given in the NEN call was galaxies away from who Trayvon was, and that would have made him seem foolish and bigoted.

          If Trayvon had lived, after all of GZ’s drama filled NEN call, the police would have had to ask GZ “why didn’t you identify yourself?”
          GZ would not have been able to answer “I was scared”, like he originally did. There was nothing about Trayvon that was in the least bit scary.

          I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, TM’s personality and all of the evidence reveals him as nothing but a respectful well mannered child! So forget about combat of any sort, if GZ hit him he would not hit back! We all know that type of child, TM was that type of child and you can read it in all of his actions, read it in his up bringing. Read it in his teachers and playmates remarks. If TM hit anyone or anything that night it was totally by accident.

      • Jun says:

        I came up with the theory of trying the case before trial and immunity is because Omara has already been doing it, and by having the cops who investigated beforehand, Omara may be trying to get the State to bring out their arguments before the trial and immunity by having the cops bring out their reasoning for stating there was insufficient evidence, therefore, the state may feel they have to present.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          As any criminal defense lawyer knows, the prosecution will only answer material challenges that can have an effect on the outcome of the hearing or trial.

          To counter any question MOM asks the police to answer, all the prosecution has to do is ask them: “Is that how you arrive at a final decision on how the case will be handled?” The Officer will have to answer no. Meaning that MOM has wasted everyone’s time. After a witness or two ends with that question, the judge will call an end to the proceedings and rule against MOM, because he has submitted nothing of relevance. Wolfinger will simply have to state that his decision was over ruled and that MOM will have to ask the Governor why. And so dear friends, the sun will set on yet another defense created “Three Ring Circus Disaster”!

      • ladystclaire says:

        One thing I would like to know and that is, what the hell took the cops so long to get there. it seems as though they took their ever loving own sweet time in getting to the scene. there is a “LOT” that went on behind the scenes and, it involves the SPD. these people need to be called out for what they did and didn’t do that night. this officer Smith plays a real dishonest role in this entire thing.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’ll second that Ladystclaire, Ofc Smith appears to have been called to RATL several times in the past, that plus the station house maps they consult on open cases, means they should be very familiar with the area. In fact doesn’t the NEN operator appear to know the address of the clubhouse? 1111 RVC as opposed to the 111 GZ gave?

          Smith then, is delayed getting to the scene, by driving all the way south on TTL, then coming around on RVC east. When he could have simply exited his car on TTL and just went through the cut through. Because all 911 callers have said “It’s right behind my house… it’s out back” and such. Smith should know that it’s the same pathway/dog walk, regardless of which street you access it from. I don’t know, but he could actually have been in RATL before the shot was fired.

          • Xena says:

            Okay, not defending Smith, but think about this. It was GZ calling YET AGAIN. He said the person ran. What’s the emergency? The first 911 call from a resident came in about 7:16 and Smith got the transmission and arrived within seconds after the shot.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It seems to me that when Smith got the call at 7:16 he was on TTL. Where he could have gotten out of his car and walked a cut through to get to the back of the buildings and the dog path. Instead he drives south to RVC south, then west to RVC west, then north again, and uses a cut through on the RVC side. That’s what puts him on scene moments after the shot.

            But consider if he’d just exited his car on TTL and walked a cut through from there? He’d have been on scene perhaps a minute earlier. This is not his first trip to RATL, so he has to know that he killed time by going all the way around. All the 911 callers said it was behind their houses. The back of the houses on TTL face the backs of the houses on RVC west, Smith had to know that!

          • Xena says:

            But consider if he’d just exited his car on TTL and walked a cut through from there? He’d have been on scene perhaps a minute earlier. This is not his first trip to RATL, so he has to know that he killed time by going all the way around. All the 911 callers said it was behind their houses. The back of the houses on TTL face the backs of the houses on RVC west, Smith had to know that!

            Lonnie, yes, but Smith is a cop, and cops never come in at the direction where an armed suspect is. Which gives us more reason to consider that GZ learned that when he road with the cops and talked with Osterman. GZ no doubt took a short-cut over to RVC to cut Trayvon off, as opposed to coming from the direction of the T.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            But Smith would be getting the call to respond to the rear of the houses before the shot was fired, so he wouldn’t know that anyone was armed, he would just be responding to the callers claiming there was fighting going on behind the houses. No claims of guns at that point in time.

          • Xena says:

            But Smith would be getting the call to respond to the rear of the houses before the shot was fired, so he wouldn’t know that anyone was armed, he would just be responding to the callers claiming there was fighting going on behind the houses. No claims of guns at that point in time.

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that the first call was the one that captured the screams and gunshot. The calls thereafter reported the same but after-the-fact. Smith said in his report that he received the transmission of shots fired while he was enroute.

          • Brown says:

            IIRC, you are correct. If I find the dispatch records will post.

          • Xena says:

            IIRC, you are correct. If I find the dispatch records will post.

            Thanks Brown. I think it was on the bcclist that I also read the order in which the calls came — just too tired now to go there. I’m still recovering from Friday’s hearing. LOL!

          • Brown says:

            no problem… rest up

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, yes, my bad. I was thinking of something else, or day dreaming about the people describing things that had happened before they called and conflating that with them having made actual calls at that time.

            Still he did drive all the way around to the north end of RVC, when he could have simply stopped on TTL and gone through to the rear of the houses. Didn’t the first call come from a house on TTL?

      • Patricia says:

        Right, Xena and Malisha -

        After shooting Trayvon, and while still mounted over him, Zimmerman first frisked Trayvon in the front waistline area to see (hoping) if Trayvon was armed (hence the GZ blood on the lower part of the inner shirt – likely Zimmerman briefly and reactively had run the back of his hand up against his nose to stop the snuffling) – then flipped the dying boy over and checked his back waistline for a holster (like Zimmerman wears) but found none – then checked Trayvon’s hooodie/back for a possible bullet exit.

        A witnesses saw Zimmerman running his hands over Trayvon’s back after the shooting.

        Zimmerman knew this and had to come up with an explanation, pronto (i.e., invent a lie) for kneeling crouched over Trayvon’s body. Zimmerman admitted flippng him, expecting that was seen also.

        Very analytic of Xena to figure out why Zimmeman would lie about spreading Trayvon’s arms, grasping the wrists. It would explain DNA transfer. Smart thinking, Xena!

        Obviously, if Trayvon’s body had NOT been flipped over (desecrated) by Zimmerman after the shooting, HOW would Zimmerman EXPLAIN the victim lying flat on his back?

        The ONLY explanation would be obvious – that Zimmerman, at the time of the shot, was in the mounted position over him, with Zimmerman’s knees pinning Trayvon’s arms to the ground, as Trayvon screamed in pain and terror.

        Thus, Zimmerman was IN CONTROL OF THE VICTIM; Zimmerman had no need to shoot.

        Zimmerman shot Trayvon in rage as payback for not obeying him and for wrecking Zimmerman’s dreams of heroic glory.

        Zimmerman shot Trayvon in payback for the tiny baby boo-boo schoolyard-level lacerations that Zimmerman “suffered” during the scuffle.

        Zimmernan shot Trayvon knowing that the cops would arrive at any second, and Trayvon would tell the cops – in detail – of Zimmerman’s assault.

        Zimmerman absolutely did not shoot Trayvon because he was “in fear for his life.”

        Zimmerman was IN FEAR OF ARREST.

        Zimmerman was IN FEAR OF CONVICTION.

        Zimmerman was IN FEAR OF SENTENCING.

        Zimmerman was IN FEAR OF INCARCERATION following all of the above — for profiling, stalking, chasing down, detaining, assaulting and creating great bodily pain upon an innocent unarmed juvenile. while Zimmerman himself was carrying a loaded, lethal weapon.

        Zimmerman was NEVER “in fear for his life.”

        The ONLY “self defense” that Zimmerman performed was perverting the evidence (Trayvon’s body position, when found), trying to ramp up his “defense” (hoping “the kid was armed”) and making certain the bullet had not passed through Trayvon and penetrated the earth beneath the dead kid.

        Zimmerman’s actions immediately after the shot were all EVIDENCE-related.

        Zimmerman tampered with the evidence, hoping to support his far-fetched alibi, and save his lying ass:

        “The unarmed kid made me do it!”

      • Groans says:

        @Patricia regarding, “Zimmerman admitted flippng him, expecting that was seen also.”

        Could you please remind me when or where or to whom he admitted flipping Trayvon’s body? Because Serino asked him during the reenactment video if he had flipped Trayvon over, and he said “I don’t remember how I got on top of him, I’m sorry.”

    • GZ wanted to make sure that Trayvon was absolutely dead….so that there would be no chance that Trayvon could tell what actually happened.

      • Jun says:

        Dead people actually tell a lot of tales, especially this dead kid. I agree with you that it was part of Zimmerman’s motive as he kind of gave it away when he said that he was out of time and he did not want cops to see him with his gun out. The only reason I can see that being nerve racking is that he had a gun pointed at a screaming kid who was also crying, so he had to silence it and then he could stage his self defense claim and not face consequences.

        • Xena says:

          The only reason I can see that being nerve racking is that he had a gun pointed at a screaming kid who was also crying, so he had to silence it and then he could stage his self defense claim and not face consequences.

          You got it!

      • gblock says:

        Here’s where I have a bit of trouble with some of the opinions expressed here. I guess I tend to believe that Zimmerman’s actions were less thought out than some of you seem to think. I find it a little hard to believe that Zimmerman would think that he would be completely off the hook if Trayvon died, instead of potentially facing much more serious charges. After the fact, yes, I believe that he was thinking of those things and tried to cover his tracks. But I think that the shooting itself was more likely governed by adrenaline, seeing himself as a hero, and maybe other factors, rather than trying to cover up what he’d already done.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          gblock said: “But I think that the shooting itself was more likely governed by adrenaline, seeing himself as a hero, and maybe other factors, rather than trying to cover up what he’d already done.”

          ————————————————————

          If Atty Crump is correct in saying that Trayvon had to enter a code to enter the gate, that means Trayvon came back from the store at a very leisurely walk. GZ also knows about the cctv’s and what they cover, he also knows which ones don’t work.

          If he’s to be in position at the time TM enters the main gate, that has to be his truck coming down RVC west and patrolling between RVC and TTL, before parking on TTL. This “patrolling” occurs, according to Tchoupi’s analysis, shortly before 7pm. So that by the time he reaches the clubhouse for the second pass, the gates have already closed.

          There is no cctv evidence that anyone parked at the clubhouse. There is evidence in the cctv’s that a car did make a u-turn on TTL and wait there facing the mailboxes, before moving to a new position facing the dog walk.

          Being in this area, it is clear that GZ knew that TM had entered using the now closed front gate, and since to do so required a residency code, GZ also knew that TM had a right to be on the grounds. GZ could not know whether or not TM was making a delivery, coming in for a visit, or actually staying at RATL. But he does know that a resident either gave him the code or released the gate for him after he identified himself. Thus, TM was no stranger, entering the RATL without permission.

          So then, why is he a “real suspicious guy”? Sheltering at the mailboxes is self explanatory, considering the fact it was raining. There was no “looking around into or at houses”, because there are no houses there to be looked into or at. Since he’s sheltering, he can’t be “walking about in the rain, looking like he’s on drugs”, and GZ certainly knows “what his deal is”! He’s sheltering from the rain on his way to one of the residences. All GZ has to do is identify himself and ask him where he’s going. Instead GZ disparages TM to the NEN operator and in the course of it all, reveals himself to be following TM, which creates a hostile and confrontational atmosphere, certain to cause TM alarm.

          So then, why is GZ doing all the wrong things? Why is he trying to conceal that he is doing all the wrong things? Is it because he intends TM no harm? Is he causing TM alarm, which he knows may provoke a defensive reaction, because he means TM no harm?
          Or is he doing these things and concealing them, because he intends to harm to TM? Harm so great, in fact, that he must conceal his intentions from everyone involved?

          If he intended no harm, he need not have caused any alarm! If he intended to catch and detain TM, he already knows that would be unlawful stalking and kidnap! So, is he planning to become a kidnaper as a way to become a hero? A person in their late teens is unlikely to be an “emancipated minor” and even more unlikely to be a home owner. So, he has to be living under someone’s care! Does GZ think that TM’s guardians will remain quiet about his actions should they be revealed? Does he believe that he can get away with, capturing TM and turning him over to the police, who will then have nothing to charge him with? That they will then release him, and there will be nothing further?

          Thus, it appears that if all GZ was intending to do, was to detain TM for the police, then GZ has to be totally out of his mind!

          Thus, the only rational view of the matter that makes any sense is, he intended to not just capture TM, but to do him such great harm, that TM would not be able to account for himself. Every other avenue, is blocked by the legal implications of felony criminal action. GZ would not commit a felony and leave a witness to testify to it! We don’t know the reasons why GZ engaged in this conduct, but we do know that his intent was not to have a witness to it.

          Capturing and holding TM for the police would have been easily accomplished, because TM never fought back! GZ needed only to hold TM for 60 more seconds and the police would have appeared and taken control of the situation. If that had happened, GZ would have faced felony charges for detaining a minor without any good reason for doing so. So, then, why did he put himself into a position where, his only way out was to kill the main witness against himself? A witness whose every mannerism would testify that he was no criminal, but simply a harmless child returning from the store with candy and iced tea?

          Why and/or how does anyone think that GZ could be so far wrong in his assessment that TM was some sort of hardened criminal?
          The answer, of course, is that he couldn’t be that far wrong, therefore even his assessment was a mere contrivance, to conceal his felonious intent!

          So then, the questions that are begged are: Who could have convincingly made GZ think he could get away with a SYG defense? Who convinced GZ that self defense would be available? Finally, who inspired GZ to do this thing in the first place? I sincerely doubt GZ would easily welcome all these risks on his own. It’s much to complex for his little set of mental resources.

      • Malisha says:

        GZ did not admit to “flipping” Trayvon’s body. He said he did not know how Trayvon had fallen — “kinda sat up” and then fell somehow, denied he knew how. He then said he “lunged” onto Trayvon Martin’s back but that part was very confused and confusing and garbled. He spread his hands out. Lunged on his back. Allegedly Trayvon was still struggling, or “resisting.” Allegedly some guy came out of his door and offered to call 911 and George said not to, to “help me restrain this guy” instead. That advice, however, got moved forward and backward in time as the various tellings of the story occurred. He never said he “flipped” the body. But if you want to think Trayvon was on top of George and got shot front to back in the chest and fell forward (40 yards away) AGAINST the momentum of the bullet crashing into and exploding inside his chest, onto his chest and face, with his hands under him, go ahead.

        • FactsFirst says:

          Ahhh…. In George’s written statement to SPD he said:
          “I unholstered my firearm in fear of my life as he (Trayvon/SUSPECT) assured me he wa going to kill me, and fred one shot into his torso. THE SUSPECT (TRAYVON) SAT BACK ALLOWING ME TO SIT UP AND SAID “YOU SHOT ME”… At this point, I SLID FROM UNDERNEATH HIM AND GOT ON TOP OF THE SUSPECT HOLDING HIS HANDS AWAY FROM HIS BODY….

  77. Xena says:

    Bernie should have had the following video in court yesterday. HA!

  78. Malisha says:

    “A giant part of murder is the killing part…”

    VERY GOOD POINT!

    George’s cult members are acting like that part doesn’t matter much. What matters is this: George was right to carry a gun because we have rights in this country; George was right to think Trayvon was suspicious because there was crime in this country; George was right to get out of his car because whatever he said was whatever and furthermore, a guy’s allowed to get out of his car and walk around his neighborhood and nobody can tell him NOT TO in this country because we’re free; George was right to tell Trayvon Martin “I don’t have a problem,” because he had the right to free speech; the cops were right to decide not to charge George with a crime because his first amendment, second amendment, fifth amendment, 9th amendment and 14th amendment rights are all absolute American traditions and he’s an American, yeah!

    So what’s the issue? Why all the fussing?

    [Oh well, that killing part...he already TOLD you that part was just self-defense, no prob. Don't worry about that part.]

    • Malisha says:

      Oh yeah, and he didn’t say “coons.” And he’s not a racist. So there’s really no problem with anything he did.

    • Xena says:

      George was right to carry a gun because we have rights in this country;

      Which is the Zidiots’ first problem. GZ could not enter an airport or plane with that gun; enter a federal building with that gun; enter a circuit courthouse with that gun; enter schools with metal detectors with that gun —- NEITHER BE ON NW WITH THAT GUN.

      When he called NEN and said “We’ve had some break-in’s in our area and there’s a suspicious guy ….” he put on his NW hat and was operating under their rules and conditions.

      • gbrbsb says:

        I agree Xena. GZ was in effect acting as a NW even though for obvious reasons he denies it. Further proof of this could be that GZ didn´t call the normal 911 emergency like a non NW concerned citizen but the NEN number which if my memory serves me was was given to the NW at the time it was being set up with the police with GZ at the helm.

        • Xena says:

          I agree Xena. GZ was in effect acting as a NW even though for obvious reasons he denies it.

          Yes, but how can he deny his own words that he took his gun everywhere with him other than to work? He can’t. When he called NEN to report a suspicious person, he put on the NW hat.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Unfortunately for GZ, we have now discovered that, when GZ left home shortly before 7pm, he drove down RVC and over to TTL, without going out the front gate (tchoupi’s work on the cctv’s) he then patrolled back to RVC and returned to TTL, by which time the front gates had closed. Now when TM comes through the front gate, GZ knows he needed a code to do so, so GZ already knew that TM lived there!

            Meaning that all his talk about TM being on drugs, and being a real suspicious person up to something, is all a pack of actionable lies. All the claims GZ’s family willfully made to disparage TM are actionable as well, since they were based on GZ’s lies and they knew GZ to be a liar! That means they are culpable for taking the word of a liar and in his defense they needlessly attempted to tarnish the reputation of TM using stories they should have known were false. Since the many versions could not all be true.

            GZ willfully stated that TM was a tresspasser, even though he knew that TM had entered through a locked gate that required a residents code to activate. That little factoid strips GZ of any and all excuses he might have had for not identifying himself! If what Benjamin Crump says is true, then GZ is a horrible criminal from the moment he picks up his phone an dials NEN to begin lying. And from there it continues to get worse by the minute.

          • Xena says:

            That little factoid strips GZ of any and all excuses he might have had for not identifying himself! If what Benjamin Crump says is true, then GZ is a horrible criminal from the moment he picks up his phone an dials NEN to begin lying. And from there it continues to get worse by the minute.

            For sure. It was during the 6:54 phone call that Trayvon told DeeDee that a creepy guy was following him. GZ didn’t make his NEN call until 7:09. What speaks volumes about GZ’s lies for where he saw Trayvon is in his re-enactment. He passed Trayvon and pulled into the parking area of the clubhouse to make the call, leaving Trayvon behind. The way he says that he pulled in, GZ could no longer observe Trayvon, and Trayvon could have taken another direction. IOWs, GZ is clairvoyant and knew that Trayvon would walk in the direction of the clubhouse and pass his car to “check” him out.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            If what Crump says is true, then GZ already knew who TM was and where he lived (just as I always suspected), and GZ already had intended to kill TM. Once he caught TM at the mailboxes, he already knew which way TM was going to go. Because he knew where TM was living. My guess is he tried to scare TM so that he’d use the north cut through to the T, but TM wouldn’t go for it, and instead ran to the back (south). GZ went down TTL and used a cut through, and came up behind TM as TM was approaching his house. TM realized he couldn’t get in fast enough, and there was no one there but his little brother, so he took off to the north.

            But he was winded pretty fast and GZ then caught up with him. GZ wasn’t questioning him, he was taunting him, GZ did not want any answers, he didn’t need any, he was just inflicting pain and getting ready for the kill. GZ is a monster and his “friends” put him up to it, it was either a dare or an initiation of some sort, but GZ doesn’t do anything serious unless someone puts him up to it. His stories are so bad because he believes they’re just a formality, he believes that the fix is already in, and for 46 days it certainly seemed like it was.
            So, he felt free to just spin his story anyway that he pleased. So what if the story was fake and didn’t add up, it wasn’t supposed to matter.

            Good thing the FBI is on the case, because the state would not dig very deep on it’s own. Now they have to make it look like they’re engaged in a real effort to clean up the town. Well, that’s my take on it, we’ll see how it plays out.

          • jm says:

            Lonnie says: “Now when TM comes through the front gate, GZ knows he needed a code to do so.”

            Lonnie are you sure TM came through the front gate? Is there no other entry for a person who is walking and not driving a car?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            There’s a car gate and there’s a separate pedestrian gate. We had all been assuming that TM left Rinehart road to enter by a cut through, either the one by FT’s place or one further north Then we rediscovered a televised interview that Benjamin Crump did, where he states that TM had entered the code to come in the front gate.

            Now this has not been verified, so we’re only speculating about what it would mean if it had happened the way Crump said it had.

            Of course, Crump could be, as some here have suggested, simply repeating what Sybrina had told him about how he gets in, that doesn’t mean Crump got that directly from DD, nor does he say that he did. Obviously we’ll still have to wait until someone finds something to confirm it.

            I surfed a few Retreat at Twin Lakes HOA sites, all I could find was a good picture of the front gate with the pedestrian entrance. I didn’t save it. Next time I will and put it in my collection. If someone wants to fill in those forms and get a prospectus, I think it will contain information about the gate and home entry systems, if they’re key or card or keypad etc., I’d do it myself but if they offered me a really good deal I’d find it hard to back out. lol

      • rachael says:

        @gbrbsb – that is why to me it even smacks more of murder. He was concerned enough to call the police number, but not concerned enough to call 911. He knew it wasn’t an emergency. Trayvon was doing nothing more than “looking suspicious” and we don’t shoot people here just because they “look” suspicious.

        Had Trayvon been actually doing something and GZ called 911 – even then, getting out after him (even if it was just to get an address) would be stupid.

        Maybe in Florida they don’t have the duty to retreat before shooting, but surely they have the duty not to put themselves in the situation to begin with.

        I can understand if you are at home and someone breaks into your house defending yourself. I can understand if George had been just out walking and someone HAD come out and gone after him and he had to defend himself. But that is NOT what happened. GZ was not out just walking. Trayvon was just out walking and as far as he was concerned, GZ came after HIM and HE had to defend himself. GZ did not remove himself from a situation, he put himself in it. He caused it. How can he then claim self-defense any more than if he had broken into someone’s house and they shot him.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The thing that ruins GZ self defense claim is that he failed to identify himself! There is absolutely no reason for him to not have identified himself, unless he was out to cause trouble. Causing trouble is not the thing that NW’er are supposed to do. But he caused trouble by following a person, and when that person discovered that he was being followed, GZ refused to end the fears that he was a person with criminal intent.

          GZ’s refusal to stop the person he was following, from fearing that he was an ill intended criminal, means that GZ was hoping to provoke a self defense response. There is simply no other way to figure it.

          The jury will be told that GZ intended to provoke his “suspect” to mount a self defense response to him, which is why he refused to identify himself. Knowing that being armed, GZ would then have the right to fire his weapon in self defense. The unarmed “suspect” would be killed and GZ could walk away free under SYG. Or so GZ thought! He had not read the law correctly, so he carried through with his plan to shoot and kill someone, for reasons we can only guess.

          But for sure we know, that NW’ers who do not intend to harm anyone, identify themselves when they cause others to become concerned for their own safety.

      • gblock says:

        Lonnie Starr, if GZ had been acting within NW guidelines, he would not have gotten out of his car to follow/chase Trayvon. But unlike you, I think that his failure to identify himself was based on a total failure to see his actions from the other person’s point of view, rather than from specific evil intent.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          gblock says: “But unlike you, I think that his failure to identify himself was based on a total failure to see his actions from the other person’s point of view, rather than from specific evil intent.”

          ————————————————————–

          I considered that as well. But I have a very big problem with that view. Unless, in the 14 hour course, they failed to impress upon GZ, the reasons why he should not follow and/or carry a weapon on NW, then it would remain a possibility. But, if you read NW materials, you will see that they are extremely concerned that NW’er’s not be seen as vigilantee’s. That is their main concern.
          If you read GZ’s narratives, you see him struggling to excuse himself from these very rules.

          Thus, we can be sure that he’s impressed that following a person he suspects, can lead that person to believe that they are in danger. The unwanted result is that either party would then mount a defense on that account. NW’ers should not have to defend themselves against people whom they merely suspect!

          So, whether or not GZ can see himself in the other persons position, he has been taught what could result, if he were to follow someone, and how much worse things could get if either party was armed.

          So, either GZ is looking to cause trouble, or he’s looking to keep the neighborhood safe, he cannot follow a person and do both, and his training has made this clear. The NEN operator also knows these rules and why they exist. That is why NW’ers are given the NEN number to call, so that their actions can be supervised if possible.

          If all GZ was concerned about, was to keep the neighborhood safe, then when he realized he had caused the “suspect” to fear him, he should have ended that fear by identifying himself, since the fear he had induced was not the purpose of NW. To the contrary NW advises him not to create any such fears in the first place.

          Again, the object of NW is not to be confrontational, and inducing fears in another person is a confrontational feature. Refusal to identify at each opportunity to do so, is even more confrontational and hostile as well. So, the question becomes: Why does the NW Commander allow himself to become confrontational and hostile? The only available answer is: the NW Commander is seeking to cause trouble! He has been taught not to do this, and so, he therefore knows what to do to cause it!

          He also knows how to end it, but he refuses to do so, even while concealing from his “supervisor” the fact that he is escalating the hostile situation he is maintaining. This “concealing his actions” from the NEN operator, is evidence that GZ knows that what he’s doing is against the rules. “He ran” shows that he has caused alarm! “Are you following?” shows that his “supervisor” has figured out that he has caused the suspect alarm. “We don’t need you to do that”, is an instruction to end these hostilities. “Okay”, is an effort to conceal the refusal to end the hostilities.

          In short, what GZ was doing was being willfully done by him and being concealed. So, in multiple ways GZ has displayed his desire to maintain and escalate a hostile situation, that he knows from his training can have disastrous consequences. Why should he be willing to accept such probable consequences? Because he has a very strong defense, his firearm!

          Just so you can see that I didn’t arrive at my conclusion by cursory reasoning. Thank you.

      • Pooh says:

        I’m with gblock. GZ is an incompetent, self-absorbed fantasist whose only talent is making up stuff to fit his version of reality.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’m not entirely convinced that GZ is such a complete idiot. For sure his stories do little to nothing to cover his guilt, but they only become incomprehensibly stupid as time goes on and he is caught in conflicts.

          I can’t believe that he would have engaged this kind of heroic enterprise, without getting some input from LEO pro’s like MO and the boys at SPD, via the “what would happen if?” type feelers.

          Apparently he was given bad advice, but he was given advice never-the-less. For example he knows he should not be south of the T for his “attempt to get an address” to work. Otherwise, why would he not immediately move the “fight” to where the body was found? Who made him understand that the thing that cause him to fear death, did not have to occur proximal to the shot being fired?

          The first time around he get’s it right in this respect, the fear of death or great bodily harm is proximal to the shot. The problem develops when it is discovered that the body is no where near where the shot is initially claimed to have been fired. How could the SPD pass that anomaly off as being consistent with a SYG defense?

          Because who ever made GZ understand that such an anomaly would be acceptable to the SPD and/or the prosecutor, had to be able to influence both, because at law that was not the case. Both the SPD and the prosecutor should have recoiled from this anomaly, but they didn’t and in fact they accepted it, even though they knew it was inconsistent with the requirements of the law.

          So if they had no vested interest in any violation of law that had occurred, why did they excuse it and put themselves in jeopardy?
          Are they now watching the case carefully, while preparing their retirement papers in preparation to flee?

    • Jun says:

      Zimmerman has all those rights except for the stalking and killing part. There’s nothing in the constitution that says you can harass and stalk and attack others, presume a kid with candy is guilty and act as the judge jury and executioner all in one. Trayvon and everyone in America has a right to their personal space and security and Zimmerman infringed on Trayvon’s constitution by targeting, stalking, accusing, resenting, terrorizing, killing, and then slandering the kid after death by telling lies as we all have a right to privacy and personal space and security. So if the actions Zimmerman took involve the above actions to infringe on another American kid’s constitution, well that is Un-american and Zimmerman will face the consequences for infringing on the constitution.

      • Xena says:

        Zimmerman has all those rights except for the stalking and killing part.

        Rights are better defined as privileges. Rights can be waived. Privileges are provided under certain conditions. GZ did not have the right to get out of his truck for the purpose of chasing someone running from him. He had the legal privilege to carry a gun, but in conducting NW, he unlawfully carried.

    • Jun says:

      “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed…”

      They fail to realize that even in the constitution it doesnt just say you can bare arms, there are other specifics attached to that right. So again the Zimmnuts are still idiots.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You make me laugh even when I want to cry.

  79. SearchingMind says:

    If my reading of judge Nelson is correct, I think she will throw a blanket gag order on the state and the defense. Judge Nelson does not come across as someone who falls all over herself in an attempt to appear “fair”, but rather someone who is strict, organized, meticulous, calls it as it is and let the chips fall wherever they may. The way O’Mara has acted in the media (inter alia: using the violent death of a dead boy to raise money, badgering witnesses, etc.) makes a caricature of the criminal justice system. I gauge that judge Nelson feels the responsibility to take control of this trail before things get out of hand, and restore the integrity of the system. Against my wishes, she will be throwing a blanket gag order on the parties.

    • grahase says:

      Someone commented earlier abut Judge Strickland being taken off the Anthony case for sending someone a comment via social media. If he can be removed from the case for that, I am going to assume there will be consequences to MOMs use of social media.

      • Xena says:

        “Anthony’s attorneys asked Strickland to remove himself after a defense investigator interviewed Dave Knechel, a blogger known as “Marinade Dave,” who has written about the Anthony case. The blogger said that the judge called him to the bench after a pretrial hearing last October to praise his coverage. Knechel also claimed that the judge called him last February to wish him well after he was hospitalized for a few days.”

        http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20002896-504083.html

        Dave has attended the hearings in the Zimmerman case and is blogging on the side of justice. http://marinadedave.com/ He is also the person who recorded O’Mara at the gun conference.

      • ladystclaire says:

        In deed he should suffer the same fate as Judge Strickland did. it was a comment or what ever that he made to marinade Dave and he payed for it by being tossed off of the Casey Anthony case. why is this guy so much different from a judge, that he can set up not one but two web sites, for the purpose of discussing this case as well as beg for money. HOW CAN HE GET AWAY WITH THAT?

    • gbrbsb says:

      @SearchingMind
      Yes I think it could well be the solution, and BDLR noted a ban for both sides would be the fairest.

      But, one question; would such a ban merely affect the defence and prosecution legals or would it also cover GZ & Co as well as the Martins and their lawyers? And what about witnesses ? friends ? and the so called supporters? I definitely hope it won´t cover GZ & Co. because as BDLR said the more he talks and the more interviews he gives the better for the prosecution after the SH interview which he said had been a Godsend !

  80. SearchingMind says:

    I think that O’Mara’s defense to date is based on conviction – not strategy! Contrary to what many of us here believe, I do not think that O’Mara made any strategic decision to chase after conspiracy theories, go after DeeDee, Trayvon’s school records, attorney Crump & Co., etc. because he (O’Mara) thought that the evidence against Zimmerman is so strong that he has nothing else to offer. O’Mara really believes that (a) “the evidence is not enough to indict Zimmerman for murder”, (b) “Zimmerman should therefore not have been indicted”, (c) “police officers agree with me and I have their sworn testimonies to that effect”, (d) “the indictment was politically motivated to avert a riot by the black community”. As Professor said in earlier blog, either O’Mara does not understand the signatures of forensic evidence or he is ignoring them. I think the former is more than likely the case, because if O’Mara does understand the said signatures, he would have been trying to spin them, trying to find other plausible alternative interpretations. The fact that he is not doing that tells me that O’Mara indeed does not know to read forensic signatures. As O’Mara himself said, ‘he (O’Mara) has never dealt with this kind of case before’.

    • grahase says:

      I think O’Mara is trying to make a name for himself. Apparently GZ wanted Baez. Maybe MOM feels he needs to prove himself by becoming known for introducing social media by creating a website – a ground-breaking defense attorney tactic. If this is his motive – Judge Nelson – please put the kibosh on it before other lawyers take up the practice. Isn’t there a case somewhere where this type of thing is in the appeal process as per MOMs diatribe at the hearing Friday.

      • Jun says:

        I believe the weakness in Omara’s argument is the simple fact there are numerous hacks and fake profiles of people, as showcased vehemently by the Conservative Tinfoil Hat folks. A prime example is rapper Souljah Boy’s myspace or whatever was hacked and numerous homophobic messages were written. There is just no way for them to find and authenticate everything that is written, and what someone write is not necessarily indicative of their behaviour or character. It can be inauthentic and fraud has no place in court.

      • Malisha says:

        Grahase I agree with you on this point.
        O’Mara has three goals, in my opinion: Make money, Make his name with the Gun Folks and their extremely wealthy ALEC backers, and appear to be the big hero who saved the little hero.

    • Jun says:

      Well he has to prove that in court and it does sound like he is chasing after conspiracy theories because his ideas are really far fetched. Bottom line, if Zimmerman never targeted a kid, stalked and chased him with a gun. shot the kid, asphyxiated the kid, he wouldnt be charged right now. I dont think he is gonna win over a judge or jury with that foolishness. The police also simply stated that they felt there wasnt enough evidence at the time but Serino felt there was enough for manslaughter. The case got passed over and more investigation done and they decided there was probable cause for murder 2. If Omara thinks he is gonna get a pass with that crap, he is a bigger idiot than I thought.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Yes. And didn´t BDLR argue in court on Friday something about the case being still an ongoing investigation when AC took it over? If that is correct and Sanford Police were still investigating my bet is GZ would have put his big mouth in it before long and given them probable cause before he had a chance at immunity.
        BDLR noted in court he was all for GZ talking as much as possible as the SH interview had been a Godsend to the prosecution !

      • Jun says:

        I havent listened to the second hearing but even then Omara’s theories sound dumb as hell just based on the fact its beyond a shadow of a doubt George killed the kid and there was a broadcast of the phone call he made to police before he did the killing.

    • SearchingMind says:

      You know guys, some lawyers graduated summa cum laude but are not able to try any case properly. Most of them end up as professors, legal counsels, etc. Some graduated with a D but are excellent trial attorneys. Some are simply flat out dumb and it does not matter how many years of practice they have had. I think O’Mara is a very decent guy (the fund-raising thing with the violent death of a boy may have been an unfortunate error of judgment). But I also think he is not extremely streetwise (as a good trial lawyer must be) or an intellectual force to be reckoned with. He suddenly got catapulted unto the national stage and he doesn’t seem to figure out how to handle it all. How can O’Mara not see that Zimmerman will NOT prevail with the kind of conspiracy-garbage he (O’Mara) was spewing during the hearing on the 26th of October? How can O’Mara not have figured out that if he cannot provide an alternative plausible reading of the objective evidence known so far (with many more to come), Zimmerman is in huge trouble? How can O’Mara not know that the conspiracy-route he has taken will ultimately lead Zimmerman to the gallows? How can O’Mara not see that it may be time to start preparing his client for an alternative solution (i.e. tell-it-all-as-it-happened, plead guilty in exchange for …..) instead escalating the situation, injecting race into the equation, publicly attacking the integrity of the prosecutors and his fellow attorneys, etc.? What kind of strategic incompetence is this? Is O’Mara really acting strategically after considering various well thought through options or is he just doing stuffs based on his intuitions/(idiosyncratic) perceptions of how the public would react?

      • Jun says:

        I believe Omara is acting out of anger and stress. When you saw him at the beginning of the matter, he was very professional in his conduct and came off ethical in his approach as it seemed he understood situation and it is dramatic. Once he got outed for the passport and the money issue, he turned devilish in his actions. He even flipped out on CNN, when he was on with Crump and publicly stated he would go after Trayvon’s credibility. He is letting his bad temper and stress cloud his judgement.

        If that assessment is incorrect, my next guess is he is an idiot. No one is going to legitimately believe that conspiracy crap, the same crap Sandusky’s lawyers tried. This is a case where it is beyond a reasonable doubt that George killed this kid and he was on a telephone call with police pretending to be a cop and targeting and stalking a kid beforehand, whom only had Skittles and Ice Tea and a heart stickered cellphone. Because of that, its very probable a murder had occurred, and not a self defense issue as George claims it was.

        My next guess it is a combination of both idiocy and him losing control of his anger and stress.

      • Xena says:

        With there being so many lawyers in America now, and so few people with money to afford one, some lawyers take on a buffet list of “concentrations.” O’Mara also represents litigants in family cases. That is where the finger pointing and blaming others comes in. Family cases include domestic violence cases, and that is where the conspiracy theories come in.

        Clients in family cases have the tendency to want their lawyer to humiliate the other party and if their lawyer refuses, they ask the “why” and “what-if” questions, searching for a basis to transform a non-issue into an issue. The only thing that discourages them is when they receive the bill. That is when the lawyer then files a motion to withdraw due to irreconcilable differences and the client’s failure to pay fees as agreed.

        Based on their arguments, lack of reasonable logic and lack of education, my guess is that the majority of GZ’s supporters have been involved in domestic violence or petty crime where they have been able to threatened — terrorize — their victims so charges are not pressed or withdrawn.

        You are correct — O’Mara doesn’t have street smarts to know this. In the alternative, he is playing along knowing that GZ has no defense, it’s a losing case, and just maybe if he limits GZ’s allowances that the Zidiots will have sent enough money to pay his bill.

        Note — O’Mara can file another motion for GZ to leave Seminole County as long as he has coordinated the GPS tracking device. He hasn’t done so. He talked about filing a motion to find GZ indigent so the State can pay his legal fees, but he hasn’t done so. O’Mara is not concentrating on his client. Rather, he is concentrating on pimping out financial donors who want the case transformed into Zimmerman v. Crump.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          That is a very good narrative on the state of the kind legal professional conduct, that the masses come into routine contact with, Xena.

          In high profile criminal cases, however, more precisely honed skills are needed. Like most professionals, I can guess that MOM has been consulting with other lawyers, informally. Obviously, where ever he goes, as a lawyer with a high profile case, he has opportunities to meet lawyers, both big and small, he’d never have been able to speak to before. They all have some piece of advice they want to impart. Of course, the best, most successful lawyers have nothing to say to him, unless they are hired they won’t get involved in any way. Alan M. Dershowitz, fancies himself a celebrity lawyer, thus feels compelled to comment on high profile cases. Or he is consulted by news organizations to render a “professional opinion”, which isn’t really a professional opinion, because he doesn’t have the case file on his desk. But it makes for good program filler and attracts a few eyeballs because it sounds important, it isn’t. It’s just “what if”, “this may be” conjecture that anyone, skilled or unskilled can do, only his name and credentials make it sound like more than it is, raw untutored opinion.

          Obviously, MOM isn’t getting very good advice himself, because just about any criminal lawyer who specializes in criminal law, will tell him not to go on tv, and certainly not to ask the public for help with the inner workings of his case. If a criminal lawyer needs the public to come forward with information, they will have their investigator do the asking. And it will be for very specific information like: “Anyone who was in the vicinity, who saw this, or who did that, please contact: XXX at XXX-xxx-XXXX”. MOM is being very unprofessional. Likely he has already assessed that GZ has trashed the case beyond hope of repair.

          The trouble is, even if he believes that, he is still required to try as best he can to win the best result he can get for his client. So he devolves to the things he has learned to use effectively in his non-criminal cases. The trouble here is, in a criminal case, and a high profile criminal case, truth and credibility are the coin of the realm. Not innuendo and conjecture. You cannot hope to win any point with “likely this, or likely that”, a jury will have the right to disbelieve anything that’s only “likely”, if it comes in the face of hard evidence, no matter how weak it may be.

          So, without hard evidence on TM’s hands, that he ever touched GZ, the “likely broken nose”, will not be believed to have been caused by TM. The GZ supporters don’t seem to realize that it doesn’t matter how broke up GZ was, it has to be proved that TM was the cause of those injuries! To that end, they can’t even prove that the nose was even broken. They can’t prove that the cuts on GZ’s head were caused by TM, and they can’t prove that those injuries would have been fatal, or even fearsome.

          Worse yet, the prosecution has the defendants own narrative, stating that those injuries, not matter how bad they might have been, were not the proximal cause of his taking the fatal shot. In fact, the defendant has given no reason, why he should have feared for his life, when he drew his weapon and fired. To the contrary the defendant clearly states, and the evidence backs him up, that he was holding onto the victim with one hand, while he drew, aimed and fired his weapon, into the body of an unarmed child, who was doing nothing with his hands at the time.

          As far as who was screaming for help, the jury will only have “likely” evidence to sort through. It will be a very big help for them to hear GZ, in the background, demanding answers to his questions. While that’s not proof positive that he was not screaming in pain and/or in fear for his life, it certainly doesn’t help for the jury to know that he had a fire arm in his control at that time.

          Try as I might, I just can’t see an armed man screaming for help, while an unarmed child threatens his life! But hey, that’s just me!

          • Xena says:

            That is a very good narrative on the state of the kind legal professional conduct, that the masses come into routine contact with, Xena. In high profile criminal cases, however, more precisely honed skills are needed.

            When I worked at the courthouse, I had no idea of the communications it opened for me within the legal community to get to know lawyers personally. There were times when lawyers just needed to talk, and I suppose they found me to be a good listener. It is standard for a lawyer who concentrates in family issues to also handle probate, but I personally have never met a lawyer who combines family court issues with criminal defense.

            Like most professionals, I can guess that MOM has been consulting with other lawyers, informally.

            At one time, MOM was legal commentator for a radio program. Now, I doubt that he has lots of social time. If you look at his appearance when he first took on GZ’s case, compared to now, MOM is wrinkled and worn.

            If anything, he is listening to Papa Zim and GZ tell him how to proceed, and since they associate with the treeslum, he hears all of their conspiracy theories also. Mark O’Mara is not representing George Zimmerman. He is representing GZ’s family and the treeslum.

            Obviously, MOM isn’t getting very good advice himself, because just about any criminal lawyer who specializes in criminal law, will tell him not to go on tv, and certainly not to ask the public for help with the inner workings of his case.

            BINGO!

            MOM obligated himself to financial donors. In general, when people give money, or promise to give money, they feel authorized in some manner (much like stock holders to a Board of Directors) to tell the company or organization how use their “investment.” MOM should know by now that GZ is not gaining supporters.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Exactly Xena: “Bingo”, if I were to give MOM any advice, it would be for him to take a mini vacation. Go to a barrister bar near the state Capitol, have a few drinks and discuss the case informally with lawyers he might find coming through there. He’d get a better handle on how his theatrics are playing and what he should be doing. One thing the world will never run short of is free advice.
            There are bars that cater to people of every profession. If you need home improvement work done, there are bars where the contractors hang out. There are bars where engineers and architects hang out. There are bars where landscapers hangout. On and on, all one needs to do is put in a little effort to find them.

            The greatest mistake most humans make in life is, when they’re in trouble, they attempt to go it alone. No matter what anyone has told us about “The Demon Rum”, it’s been in such places that the entire human race has had it’s cache moved forward.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr.

            Exactly Xena: “Bingo”, if I were to give MOM any advice, it would be for him to take a mini vacation. Go to a barrister bar near the state Capitol, have a few drinks and discuss the case informally with lawyers he might find coming through there. He’d get a better handle on how his theatrics are playing and what he should be doing.

            Yep. There are country clubs and golf courses too. Oh, oh. Let me stop before I give away where lawyers in my neck of the woods hang out. :-)

      • Jun says:

        Lonnie

        They have voice samples from Zimmerman screaming for help and it obviously does not match him. Without that, it does not even sound like him screaming because we all heard his voice on tape and in reenactments. It sounds like a kid screaming and a few of the witnesses even stated it sounded like a kid. I think most damaging, and Professor even stated this, is that the screams and crying were ended with the gunshot. As well as hearing crying and pleading for help, Trayvon was found with tears on his face. I think they can conclusively prove it wasnt Zimmerman. I agree with your assessment that Trayvon was the one in danger since Zimmerman had a mental advantage being the crazy deranged idiot he is, and a physical advantage as he is much larger than Trayvon, and he had a gun.

        • Xena says:

          @Jun and Lonnie — YES! Along with that, GZ’s voice is heard in the background of that 911 call cursing at Trayvon while Trayvon is screaming. Now, unless GZ can explain how he was talking in one voice, and screaming in another, his goose is cooked.

          I wish that an unredacted version of that call was available, because I am sure it captured more of GZ’s words than what we can hear on the redacted version — and the tape was sent to the FBI for enhancement, btw.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Got it Xena… But what you should know is, I post from a “best case for the defense” proposition. Thus what may seem very well confirmed against GZ, will appear as only “most likely” by me, if it is not absolutely confirmed. If you read my posts with that in mind, you will realize just how little there really is that the defense can use to controvert guilt.

            Obviously, a juror, listening to the same tapes we have, is most likely going to come to the very same conclusions we have. It does not have to be proven that it’s not GZ screaming! The jury must be convinced that it is not GZ screaming! The tapes do that on their own, because GZ’s non screaming voice is heard on them.

            Since the jurors are human beings, they will find it difficult in the extreme, to believe that a person, screaming for their life and terrified of danger, will also be capable of talking in anything near normal tones in intervals between screams. And, while it is still possible to do so while holding and aiming a firearm, it is not believable that could be the case. Because to speak normally, if forcefully, one has to drop the recognition of what terrified them, even while they are still being terrorized.

            So, which is more terrifying? An unarmed black male teenager, or an armed and angry adult? Each juror will be required to select between the two. If I’m not mistaken, my guess is they’ll decide that the armed and angry adult is more terrifying. I would also guess that most “treepers” would think so too, if they did not know who the “players” were.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Good post above Xena and Lonnie.

        When I listened to the sample of Zimmerman’s voice reenacting how he was supposed to have screamed that fateful night I honestly – without any intention to insult Zimmerman – thought it was a dog barking. Truly.

        Remember also that when de 911 tape was re-played for him, he was asked if he recognized the voice screaming for help. His answer? No, it does not sound like me at all.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          That’s because he believed it was some sort of trick! He could not believe that the events that night were actually picked up and recorded on 911 call tapes. Who would? But, today’s technology has progressed so far so fast. Usually a phone would be at a fixed location in the house and that would likely be far from any window.

          Today we have these high quality radio phones that you can walk around the entire house with them even take them outside. They have 150 foot range, so you can even take them next door with you.
          And they have very sensitive microphones that have very good pick up. So that’s what cooked GZ’s goose!

          • Xena says:

            That’s because he believed it was some sort of trick! He could not believe that the events that night were actually picked up and recorded on 911 call tapes.

            GZ has stomach problems, and when he realized what that 911 call captured, I imagined him wanting to run to the bathroom really fast.

          • @Xena:
            Hello! ::Waving:: Just siting here in NYC waiting for the storm Sandy! To all of my GZ supporters who post here who reside on the East Coast, please stay safe! My mom said it has hit Charleston, South Carolina where she is but she and my Auntie and Uncle are fine! She and her sister are used to storms hitting the Carolina’s!

            Stomach problems? How can that be? His stomach is made of cast iron, considering how much he is stuffing it these days??? I wonder how he responded when that 911 tape was played for him? I wonder if he elaborated on the fact that TM was begging, pleading and crying for his Momma? ( I am being FACETIOUS) !! I am sure that tape haunts him and he knows that, that tape will be played in court for all to hear and it will be explained and played and that pit bull DA will look at him and the jury and shout, ‘There it is, ladies and gentlemen, is TM screaming for his life, begging, pleading and the defendant shoots him anyway!” We already know how GZ sounds when he yells! he sounds like a barking dog! He stated he was yelling,” Help me!” He never stated not once in his re-enactment that he was dialoguing and that he was screaming at TM. He conveniently left that out!

            Off topic: Remember when “Dee Dee”, when testifying stated that she thought that T was a “Momma’s boy?” I laughed because most teenage boys don’t wish to be referred that way, but she said he was and she liked that I believe. On the Michael Baisden show in NYC, they took their show to where TM resided in Miami (a few months ago). Michael and his side kick took phone calls from some students who went to school with Trayvon. They all stated that he was a very kind young man, and very courteous. He avoided confrontation and pretty much just stayed around his mom.

          • Xena says:

            @Xena: Hello! ::Waving:: Just siting here in NYC waiting for the storm Sandy!

            Please, please stay safe. Sending prayers and good thoughts your way and also to your mom.

            How can that be? His stomach is made of cast iron, considering how much he is stuffing it these days???

            Stomach problems, such as ulcers, can be a side-effect of Adderall. Adderall is also an appetite suppressant. If GZ had insurance through his employer, and he left employment in Feb., then his employer probably continued his insurance until March or April. COBRA would then apply. Some COBRA law has changed in the last several years, but IIRC, it still requires that the former employee pay something on the premium.

            Sooooo — if GZ did not continue his health insurance, he is probably off the Adderall and anti-depressant.

            I am sure that tape haunts him and he knows that, that tape will be played in court for all to hear and it will be explained and played and that pit bull DA will look at him and the jury and shout, ‘There it is, ladies and gentlemen, is TM screaming for his life, begging, pleading and the defendant shoots him anyway!”

            YES! Coupled with the photo of Trayvon’s death face, it sends a powerful message. That photo was taken by Wagner, and is one that West wants to argue that the defense did not receive in digital format.

            On the Michael Baisden show in NYC, they took their show to where TM resided in Miami (a few months ago). Michael and his side kick took phone calls from some students who went to school with Trayvon. They all stated that he was a very kind young man, and very courteous. He avoided confrontation and pretty much just stayed around his mom.

            Trayvon was Aquarius so it’s doubtful he would have a violent nature. Strangely, MOM’s birthday is only 2 days after Trayvon’s.

        • Brown says:

          That’s what it sounded to me also, a small dog barking.

          • @Brown:
            Insulting GZ? The insult is to those dog lovers like myself and my own dog who feels that GZ does not resmemble his voice in any way shape or form! LOL! GZ’s father and brother had the unmitigated gall to state that, that was G screaming because he screamed like that when he was a teenager. Why would G be screaming for his life when he was a teenager? Was he getting tortured, beaten, abused?

            GZ never in his wildest dreams expected his voice to be captured on that 911 cell phone call! He probably never realized that a voice could be picked up by a cell phone. You can hear him clearly yelling at TM, interrogating him, and of couse you can hear TM denying, pleading and begging. Like I stated, he conveniently left out this little exchange. Did he suffer a memory lapse?

          • Brown says:

            To All Poodles, Terriers, ChiHuaHuas, Spaniels, Bulldogs, and every other breed I may have not of mentioned, I am truly sorry for comparing your barks and sounds to those of a recording by GZ.

            : ^ ))))

          • @Brown:
            LOL! Hey I insulted all dogs and dog lovers as well! I take my hits! My own dog was quite insulted himself by my compaing GZ’s barking to his! LOL! I do find GZ’s voice very strange sounding though. Why is he unabale to scream like any normal human being? My bad! GZ is not a NORMAL human being!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It wasn’t that GZ was unable to scream. He dared not try to mimick the cries for help, because the louder he gets the deeper his voice would go and he knows it. So he held back so he wouldn’t be too far from the high pitched voice heard on the tape. All this cleverness is going to come back to bite him, if he tries to claim he’s a mental case who shouldn’t stand trial.

          • @Lonnie & Brown:
            You are exactly correct. His voice being fully developed as a “man” his voice would become deeper the more he screamed. Even when I hear men screaming in the movies or out in the street, their voices are deep. Only a teens voice would be that high. Yea,he is a nutcase, alright. A clever, devious one at that. Plus, he stated that he yelled, “Help Me! There was a lot more dialogue on that tape than “Help Me!” How does he explain that to a jury? How does he explain his talking at the same time plus he was getting his head bashed against the ground and his nose was being smothered by TM’s hands. YEA RIGHT!

          • Brown says:

            HMMMM, good point.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Another minor detail is: in his reenactment video Zimmerman claimed that he was calling out loud “help, help me”. Zimmerman is very sure of his exact words (when he thinks it suits him). On his reenactment tape we also hear him barking “help, help me” as loud as he could. But the voice on the 911-tape was just screaming “help”. The last scream was uncompleted.

        What I also find very striking is tthe difference between Zimmerman’s voice sample and the voice on the 911-tape. The difference is distinct and unmistakable – for the average person. It feels to me like the difference between apple and onion.

      • PYorck says:

        The difference is distinct and unmistakable – for the average person. It feels to me like the difference between apple and onion.

        I think there is a chance that GZ was smart enough to do that on purpose. Had he made essentially the same scream, only in the wrong voice, it would be even more obvious that it wasn’t him. This way there is a small amount of uncertainty and deniability left because we still don’t know positively what GZ would sound like screaming like that.

      • thejbmission says:

        Well said! I totally agree. And I hate to say this as I know many are not fans of Jose Baez but Jose is street wise and I believe he would have used that to his advantage and came up with a much better alternative than O’Mara’s conspiracy-route as you put it.
        Public opinion seems to be very important to O’Mara, the Golden Boy with the stellar reputation. If he can’t stand the heat of representing his hated client, then he should get of the proverbial kitchen.
        Victimizing the victim all over again is not becoming. O’Mara should realize, it’s not personal, it’s business.
        With that said, carry on Golden Boy, we love it!

      • Groans says:

        @Deborah Garner-Moore, regarding “GZ’s father and brother had the unmitigated gall to state that, that was G screaming because he screamed like that when he was a teenager.”

        Ha! Their reasoning, to me, is an admission by GZ’s family that the screaming sounds like that of a teenager!

    • Isn’t it true Omar has NOT tried a murder case before and that’s why west was brought in to co-chair?

      • Xena says:

        Isn’t it true Omar has NOT tried a murder case before and that’s why west was brought in to co-chair?

        When MOM announced that he was representing GZ, I looked up some of his cases and what I found was he was able to help his clients enter a plea to avoid the death penalty. The same goes for West. My research was not exhaustive, however.

      • Xena says:

        According to CNN, MOM represented Shamir Suber, and plead him down from 2nd degree murder to DUI involuntary manslaughter.
        http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2004-10-05/news/0410050213_1_suber-shamir-sarah

        According to USNews, when asked about prior cases involving SYG, MOM replied:
        “I have not had one to a jury since the ‘Stand Your Ground’ statute, but I’ve had a couple that have utilized that as … sort of an impact on it,” he added.”

        The same source reports that MOM represented Shannon Burke, who shot his wife’s dog in a fit of anger. The bullet also grazed his wife’s head. Burke was charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and animal cruelty. O’Mara managed to get a nominal sentence for Burke, who received six months after pleading guilty to animal cruelty and opening fire in a building.

        http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/04/12/11163332-zimmermans-new-attorney-who-is-mark-omara?lite

    • Patricia says:

      @ Searcher -

      Let me know if you agree to any out of the following 10:

      O’Mara, in the face of overwhelming forensic evidence, is trying to influence the jury as follows:

      1. Zimmerman will not seek to hold his trial elsewhere.

      2. The demographics among the registered voters in this jurisdiction (thus, those allowed to serve on juries) is “conservative, to the right.”

      3. Right wing individuals and their families love law ‘n order.

      4. Even if a right-winger saw the light (i.e.. forensic evidence) during the trial, that juror still has to face families and friends after the trial, most of whom are of similar political conviction.

      5. O’MARA’s PLOY IS: “The home-town cops that we all love said George shouldn’t be charged. But those bullies at the STATE LEVEL are interfering with the judgment of our good ole boys. Who you gonna believe? Them city-slickers up in Jacksonville, pulling the strings for political reasons? Or our VERY OWN FINEST at Sanford PD? And who we gonna look out for? Our very own George, a righteous piece-packin’ local boy! Or some truant black kid from the Miami ghetto? HEY – OUR GUYS KNOW BEST! George should never been arrested!”

      6. This is known as “advance jury tampering.”

      7. O’Mara needs only one out of six jurors to absorb this gut feeling that O’Mara is peddling — and to act on it at the trial.

      8. He knows that de la Rionda know all this – and is hoping to cut a deal.

      9. What’s the penalty for depriving a kid of his Skittles?

      10. Assuming the receipt was in Trayvon’s plastic 7/11 bag, that’s the plea that Zimmerman hopes to cop. Oh yeah, he shot up the hoodie, also. Willing to plead to that, too.

      • Jun says:

        The problem with that is that is simply a hung jury with 5 to 1 for guilty, which means they can retry Zimmerman. Bernie obviously wants to save time and money and get it done in one go. Its also fairly obvious what Omara is attempting, and it is the same modus operandi of repeating lies over and over in the face of evidence. I dont think that will work and one look at the rapist who flipped out at Nelson’s other trial is a good example. Omara and his team will end up getting mad in the face of many objections and be thrown in contempt

        • Patricia says:

          @Jun,

          Of course that’s a hung jury. That is the best O’Mara can hope for.

          Retry (fund raise). Retry (fund raise). Retry (fund raise).

          Permanent employment for O’Mara, semi-permanent freedom for Zimmerman.

          O’Mara hopes eventually he’ll find enough racist nuts to empanel a jury that frees Zimmerman.

          That’s his “outside hope.”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I don’t know, maybe professor can answer, if there’s a hung jury and the state doesn’t recharge right away, does GZ’s bail get continued? Or does he have to post a new bail, when the charges are re made?

            Obviously, since GZ is using a bond, once the bail is lifted, the bondsman is released. A new bail will require a new ten percent fee.
            Or will the bail simply continue?

  81. grahase says:

    Tsunami hitting Hawaii after 7.7 earthquake in Western Canada.

  82. grahase says:

    Go to CNN or YouTube – People are posting under Hawaii tsunami 2012

  83. grahase says:

    No time for sleep this night – 0516 am looking at Sandy on East coast and tsunami on the West!!!!

  84. Malisha says:

    OK, here’s what I think is happening with O’Mara and with this case. O’Mara IS handling it as if it were a divorce/custody/abuse case but that does NOT mean that he is an idiot mis-handling it or that he has totally gotten it wrong and doesn’t know how to deal with it. The case has not been dealt with like a normal criminal case from the get-go. It has much MORE in common with a divorce/custody/abuse case. Therefore, O’Mara’s strategy, although totally freakin’ wrong and designed to fail IF THIS CASE WERE A CRIMINAL CASE, has a chance of putting him exactly where he wants to be with the actual case that he is litigating.

    In other words: If the case is State versus Zimmerman,
    Zimmerman loses.

    O’Mara wants a plea deal before trial. State also wants that because if ALL the evidence (including the fact that residents of RTL were making police reports against George dating back before his killing of Trayvon Martin) were to come out, a lot more than George would fall and into a much deeper hole.

    O’Mara would have planned on getting a SYG hearing to free his guy because that would have also freed the HOA which is one of his main goals, but that plan had to be jettisoned because Lester would not allow the state and the defense to prevent the disclosure of the evidence to the public. Once the EVIDENCE was out, nobody could afford to be so corrupt as to allow George to walk on a SYG.

    O’Mara’s “Plan B” was to stir up enough pro-Zim feeling in the jury pool that there could be a CREDIBLE — no, make that “CREDIBLE” claim that the state could not afford to go to trial because if they did, they could lose, and George could walk. So long as people believe that “The State has a very big problem with this case” or, as Jeralyn Merritt put it, “The State has some explaining to do,” then there can be a plea deal. Folks will say, “The State HAD to give him a plea deal because of WHAT THEY DID when they faked up the affidavit of probable cause and pretended they had enough evidence to charge him.”

    All theater.

    The State had enough evidence to charge George with Murder I, in fact. He gave his premeditation to the NEN folks. If the police, and mainly Lee, had not already agreed to let George do his theatrics, and then to do whatever it took to back him up AFTER his theatrics, that would all have been very clear on 2/26/2012. The police, if this had not been a total corrupt screw-up at the beginning, would have said to George, “Man, you were told not to follow him and you want us to believe that AFTER THAT and after you said ‘shit he ran’ he came back to beat you up? Not buyin’ it. Here, put on these prison stripes, you’re goin to jail.”

    O’Mara is building his conspiracy theory to keep and make people sympathetic to St. George the thug-killer. He’s doing it like a divorce case. Here’s how it goes in a divorce case and I’ll bet you can find 20, 25 cases just like this in O’Mara’s files:

    MOM and DAD split up. Mom has the kids during the week and on weekends they go to Dad. Dad used to slap mom around and now he has more stress and less of an outlet and he starts to get abusive with the kids, especially if they cry for mom when they’re with him or ask for something he doesn’t have or doesn’t want to give him. He starts to say mom’s not a fit mother. O’Mara runs into court asking for an emergency motion to get custody to dad and supervised visitation to mom. Why? Well of course, mom is “poisoning the kids” against their dad. Evidence? “They told their father she said blah blah blah.” One, Two, Three, horrible things the mother said come out. Her social media accounts prove she is a slut and a whore. OH THE POOR KIDS! Dad demands mom get supervised visitation so she can’t poison those kids any more. Mom was taking martial arts so she could teach the kids how to hurt their father if he disciplined them. Slander Slander Slander Slander money money Slander emergency motion money slander money money emergency motion wild theories in court slander money emergency motion.

    What happens? Mom’s reputation is mud by the time there are seven emergency motions. Can she defend herself? No. No spousal support, no child support, she’s been to court 9 times last month, she loses her job, she has to move in with someone else because she can’t afford the rent, she’s got no lawyer, now she can’t take those kids, nowhere for them to live decently…she was seen at a bar…she must be a drunk no wonder he divorced her…

    That’s where he’s taking this case.

    Trayvon Dee Dee thug MMA FaceBook Twitter slander slander money money slander MMA punches broke my client’s nose broken nose nobody denies undeniable forensic evidence my client conspiracy cops cops they didn’t want to charge slander slander money slander my poor client conspiracy Crump Crump Crump Crump…

    He doesn’t have to have a “trial by litany” this time. All he needs is enough public fussing and whining to give him the basis for a plea bargain at the last minute and for goodness sake hide that evidence!

    How does O’Mara explain “These assholes; they always get away”? He doesn’t. He ignores it and talks about MMA and Crump. He’s a divorce lawyer pure and simple and this case has been played out NOT as State v. Zimmerman but as Zimmerman versus Martin.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Well, he’s not getting much public support and it is a criminal case. My guess is, since we’re seeing more and more FBI and Justice Department actions against local LEO’s and their agencies, labs and even prisons and courts, Fla will opt to clean up Sanford rather than plead GZ and try to whitewash what the entire world is seeing.

      Florida is beyond saving the SPD from itself, since doing so would cast aspersions on the state. People are already saying that Florida is the “Gunshine” State and that is billions of dollars worth of some very bad publicity, the State will be better off making a move against SPD to create a picture of clean up, rather than doing the status quo thing. GZ is toast, the SPD will be reconfigured, heads will roll!

    • Jun says:

      I dont think the State would plead out just because the SPD are shown to be incompetent idiots (perhaps more but we can only theorize at most). The whole state of Florida would look good by cleaning up any dirty cops or idiot cops as that would make it look like they have high standards in Florida for law enforcement. I dont feel if what is said by you is true, that the state would be scared to drop the information.

      • Malisha says:

        I don’t think the SPD were incompetent idiots; I think they were complicit criminals. That includes my impression of Wolfinger. So I think the FDLE has good incentive to plead George out to hide the bulk of the evidence of what Wolfinger, Lee, Smith et al. actually did to enable and encourage George Zimmerman to profile and kill an innocent citizen and to then cover it up. I do hope that I am wrong, because if I am right, it will all go down without a ripple and those who realize what happened will be marginalized, labeled as paranoids and disregarded. But anyway, that’s what Malisha sezz. :twisted:

      • Jun says:

        I dont feel, if there is proof of criminality, that they would plead out. I personally feel they would throw them to the FBI and DOJ and be done with it. If there is proof of this criminality to cover the murder, those are seperate incidents and charges and would have no effect on convicting George. JMO but I dont see it having a super negative impact on local law enforcement, in fact, I feel it would bolster their image in that they are standing by standards and oaths and cleaning up the department, which would build better trust in the community. I feel their PR would know attempting to hide it would appear worse for the said whole department, while outing the bad apples just shows that they are doing their jobs.

    • Xena says:

      @Malisha.

      He’s a divorce lawyer pure and simple …

      YES! Thank you, thank you, thank you. And, what is it that some divorce litigants do in order to sway people to their side? They talk to the in-laws, friends, neighbors, the spouse’s co-workers, the medical assistant at the doctor’s office — everyone they possibly can so word gets back to the spouse about how evil and crazy she is. Defense becomes a daily battle in every aspect of her life.

      Many times, rather than endure the slander and humiliation, divorce litigants raise both hand and say “whatever.” MOM has no idea what he’s dealing with here. The State is not raising both hands and giving up.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You’ve got something there, Malisha. It does sound more like a divorce case than a criminal case.

  85. rachael says:

    “. . .this case has been played out NOT as State v. Zimmerman but as Zimmerman versus Martin.”

    Exactly.

    • Groans says:

      Second that.

      I hadn’t consciously noticed it. But, when you think about it, nobody – not even the “objective” media – ever mentions a “State v. Zimmerman” case.

      Only a “Zimmerman” case … and periodic reports involving Crump and/or Jackson.

  86. SearchingMind says:

    Judge Nelson did turn over Zimmerman’s medical records to the State after redacting what it thought is not relevant to the case. Does anyone have more information on this? Did the state got more information than it already had? How could the State utilize what it may have gotten from the judge, what possibilities and scenarios are there?

    • jm says:

      SearchingMind says: “Did the state got more information than it already had? How could the State utilize what it may have gotten from the judge, what possibilities and scenarios are there?”

      I wonder about the same thing. Are the psych records included with medical records? Who is prescribing GZ’s medications for Adderall and tamazepam, why and for how long? Can the state ask for further records if they feel it is necessary? IMO the reasons why the medications such as Adderall and tamazepam are very important as well as how long he has been taking them.

      Not having studied the case as other posters have, all I can see that could be useful to the state is that the physician assistant’s diagnosis is possible broken nose and not actual broken nose and also that GZ was advised to follow up with ENT specialist which he did not do. I don’t remember if much was said about the head wounds or if GZ was advised to get more testing to determine if there were internal injuries. It has always puzzled me why GZ did not focus more on his head being smashed into concrete multiple times rather than his broken nose which is not a life-threatening injury.

      • rachael says:

        @jm “It has always puzzled me why GZ did not focus more on his head being smashed into concrete multiple times rather than his broken nose which is not a life-threatening injury.”

        This is just my personal theory, but in my opinion, the reason is he had a bloody nose (for whatever reason) and may well even had a broken nose at one time in the past so thought this was the same or on top of a previous injury. It was something more tangible. He did not concentrate on head wounds or internal injuries because – there were none. His head was not bashed against concrete, he was not kicked in the ribs, he had no internal injuries or injuries to his head that matched his lie and he knew that. Because his nose was bleeding, he could “say” he had a broken nose.

        • @rachael & jm:
          GZ most likely had a broken nose previously, and and x-ray would show that. That is another reason why he did not wish to follow up with an ENT Specialist. As I have stated previously, his head was never bashed on the concrete and he knew that whatever injuries he sustained would not be consistent with that lie regarding his head being bashed, but he could justify a broken nose especially if it was broken in the past. If it was, that would be written in his medical report if it was sustained more a year ago. The State should continue to pursue getting his medical records to see if G had a broken nose sometime in his past.

        • jm says:

          rachael says: “Because his nose was bleeding, he could “say” he had a broken nose.”

          A broken nose can easily be proven by x-ray. Not sure if they can determine the age by x-ray but if it was broken previously that should be in previous medical records.

          My theory is GZ surrounded himself with “gullible” and/or enabling people (his family) who never questioned if GZ was telling the truth so he thought he could get over on telling more lies about his nose, his head bashing, the screaming, etc. I think the lack of documentation of a broken nose even after he was seen by the physician assistant the next day who advised him to see specialist could speak volumes as to his credibility.

          I wonder if GZ ever followed up on advice to see his counselor/psychologist for mental problems following his killing a teen. Those are the records that would be important. RZ Jr said GZ had post traumatic stress disorder. He sure didn’t look or sound stressed during his reenactment of his killing this innocent teen. He absolutely didn’t look stressed during Hannity interview where he talked about the killing.

          Sorry, to me GZ is despicable. He really should have kept his mouth shut.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Oh Hannity he even issued a poorly suppressed chuckle. Which says that there’s something about the whole case that he finds more than simply amusing. Hardly an emotion reachable by anyone suffering PTSD/

      • rayvenwolf says:

        “It has always puzzled me why GZ did not focus more on his head being smashed into concrete multiple times rather than his broken nose which is not a life-threatening injury.” Because it never happened and he knew/feared further medical backup would show he was in fact lying. Why else would he skip going to the er that night? IF he had told the EMT’s about the head bashing story the would have pushed for him to go in. He didn’t which is why they only said he may/might want to go in for stitches.

        GZ expected everyone of real importance(law enforcement) to take his story at face value and not really dig deeper.

        • @rayvenwolf:

          GZ overexaggerated his injuries and then his stupid brother went all over the televison waves backing him and confirming it along with this dad who didn’t bother to look at any evidence. He just his son’s word for it. GZ doesn’t think logically and that is his problem. G doesn’t think at all. Working as a Nurse Practitioner for so many years in NYC, I have seen individuals with head injuries and one head bashing produces abrasions, contusions and lots of blood. One man even slipped into a coma. He survived thank god but I cannot comprehend how G could say what he did and then refuse to be seen by an ENT Specialist or a Neurologist???

          GA also thought that his cop friends and his dad’s friends in the system could make this “go away.” G under estimated that the Martin family would continue to pursue why ‘this man” was not arrested for killing their son, and I would have done the exact same thing. They got the media involved along with the Civil Rights Icons, and regular citizens and this case could not be ignored, and it wasn’t once the Gov. got involved.

      • Jun says:

        I feel its more important that they authenticate what Omara handed in because of the scheme’s George is known to pull, ie the first bond hearing

      • rachael says:

        @jm
        That is why I said “say” rather than say – he refused treatment, which may have shown he did not in fact have a broken nose, or that he had an old injury broken nose, but my point was that by the fact it was bleeding (which is not in itself indicative of a broken nose) he could “say” that (not say that).

        It is kind of a wink wink deal.

      • grahase says:

        I’ll tell you exactly why he thought his lies would pass muster. He has likely tried them before and LE with his Dad and Mom backed up the stories. I think the State wants the records to see if other injuries were sustained in the past – like a mugging. He used that as an excuse at work in this case. As we have learned, he intertwines a little truth with all the lies. I would bet he has other fighting injuries. Even Osterman said to Shelley – he shot someone — else (question mark).

        • jm says:

          grahase says: “I think the State wants the records to see if other injuries were sustained in the past – like a mugging.”

          I don’t think 3 months of medical records is sufficient to see about what drove GZ to the point he killed an innocent teen and had no remorse once he learned the teen was actually staying with a resident and had no weapons and no record. There has to be some psych history and doubt if 3 months of medical records could show the big picture of what makes GZ tick. When did mugging allegedly take place?

      • rachael says:

        @jm – when he went to work the next day, he told his coworkers that he was mugged. I’m not sure if that is what you are referring to or not though.

      • grahase says:

        jm — there was no mugging. This is what GZ told his work mates – that he was mugged, in response to the big bandages Shelley placed over his little scrapes.

      • grahase says:

        rachael – Re: Medical Records.
        Did MOM hand the Judge GZs entire medical record from the clinic. I thought she was going to decide what was relevant.

        • Brown says:

          In addition, Nelson gave the prosecution redacted copies of Zimmerman’s medical records from his doctor visits in the weeks following the Feb. 26 shooting. The state had requested more records than it previously had been provided.

          She took out only information she said was not pertinent to the Martin case specifically. Zimmerman has claimed that the reason she shot the teen was because he feared for his life after Martin began to slam his head against the ground during a fight.

          Excerpt copied from…

          http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/state-argue-gag-order-zimmerman-case-17569213

      • rachael says:

        @grahase – she said it was the complete redacted record – in other words, she took out what she felt was not necessary. However, by complete I do not know if she meant complete within the 3-month before and 3-month after or complete as in total.

      • Malisha says:

        jm, I think that lack of emphasis on the head injuries is the result of O’Mara knowing EARLY EARLY ON that there was something not kosher about those “scare pictures” of George’s head. I have been expecting popular $2.95 Halloween masks of George Zimmerman’s head; the pictures were silly and the chain of custody of the pictures was way off, etc. When asked about the pictures, all O’Mara could say was that he was not sure HOW or IF the defense was going to use the pictures! Uh…really? Your guy nearly got killed and his head nearly exploded and you’re not sure “how” or “if” you’re gonna use a picture of that? Um…

        Maybe it didn’t happen and maybe the pictures are…um…

        • jm says:

          Malisha says: “When asked about the pictures, all O’Mara could say was that he was not sure HOW or IF the defense was going to use the pictures! Uh…really? Your guy nearly got killed and his head nearly exploded and you’re not sure “how” or “if” you’re gonna use a picture of that? Um… Maybe it didn’t happen and maybe the pictures are…um”…

          Can bogus pictures be used by prosecution to establish the lack of credibility of GZ’s claims of his head being beaten against concrete and the witness who took the pictures even if MOM chooses not to use them? (Do you know who took the pictures?)

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            MOM can’t use, what once appeared to be a major piece of his evidence, because there is no chain of custody AND he can’t prove it’s relevance, because the required trace on TM’s hands does not exist.

            Picture yourself in front of a jury, showing picture of your clients bloody head, and trying to explain to that jury that:

            1. This is the evidence of this terrible beating your client took.

            2. This beating was so terrible that your client thought his head
            was going to explode.

            3. This is why your client felt he was about to lose consciousness.

            4. And finally, this is why your client was so desperate that he
            could only fire that shot, to save his very life.

            The jurors pass the picture around and you see them nodding their heads, saying “hmmm…” and casting approving glances over toward GZ.

            Fine! All is well!

            But now, as you well know, the prosecution rises to point out:

            1. This picture certainly looks horrible because there is, for sure
            plenty of blood.

            2. This picture was supposedly taken there at the scene, by a
            bystander, who turned it in several days later, because they
            had forgotten they took it.

            3. The ambulance that was called to treat the defendants “likely
            broken nose” and these injuries, was canceled.

            4. The defendant refused to be taken to the hospital to have
            his injuries better diagnosed, documented and treated.

            5. The EMT’s who were at the scene to treat TM, also attended
            to these injuries as well.

            6. They cleaned up the blood, looked at the wounds and
            they determined they were not serious enough to require
            bandages of any kind.

            7. While the defendant complained, several times about symptoms
            each time he refused offers to be taken to the ER.

            8. The videos of him, that night and the next day do not exhibit
            any behavior; dizziness, low function, spacial problems or
            even headaches, that would confirm he had experienced serious
            injury.

            And finally the big number 9: The victim and supposed assailant, had no trace evidence, no dna, no fibers, no evidence at all, that would indicate that his hand had ever even touched the defendant once that entire night, despite the narrative you just heard and despite the massive blood flows depicted in those images the defense has just shown you.

            Okay, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, let’s see why this should not be so.

            [video tape of GZ interview played]

            So, the victim and supposed assailant, is supposed to have placed one hand over the defendant’s supposedly broken and bleeding nose, while his other hand is supposed to have covered the defendant’s mouth. Then the victim, assailant is supposed to have pressed down hard, putting all his weight into trying to smother the defendant, and yet, these hands pick up no trace of any kind?

            We have no idea where the defendants wounds came from, we have no idea how serious they were. We do know that they were not treated as serious. We do know that the defendant exhibited no symptoms that would indicate those wounds were serious. The only documented treatment, recommended for those wounds was; “Clean with soap and water!” And finally we know that those wounds could not have been caused by the victim assailing the defendant.

            We also know that: even if in arguendo that the defendant did sustain these injuries, and that the victim/assailant did cause them, then that happened far away from where the shot was fired, meaning that they could not have been the cause of the defendant’s fear for his life. Meaning that these injuries cannot be used to explain why the victim was either killed or had to be killed.
            =================================

            These hurdles are so huge, the defense dare not introduce those pictures, because they only make the hurdles higher. In fact this evidence is so awfully bad, it will make the jury think “faked injuries”, just as it has done to people who have read it on the internet. That is a “bell” the defense knows it will be unable to “un – ring” and they have to avoid forcing themselves to try.

      • Jun says:

        Lonnie

        I think the fact that the picture is questionable, the forensics, the superior minor-ness of the injuries, how they pale in comparison to how this man terrorized this kid, and that the so called injuries were caused by something and someone else is pretty much a stake in a vampire’s heart. I would even go so far to say that there were witnesses who saw him instigate the attack and force himself on the kid the whole time and the kid only attempted to wrestle off the defendant, into which he was shot and asphyxiated, then the defendant started running his hands all over the dead body of a kid, and the fact that the defendant was seen fiddling with his face and head afterward and making sure he appeared bleeding that there is belief he staged his injuries to try to bolster a self defense claim.

    • rachael says:

      @ SearchingMind:
      ” Did the state got more information than it already had?” I know that at a previous hearing, the state wanted all medical records, but O’Mara wanted it limited to 3 months before and 3 months after. I don’t know if that was agreed upon or not though. I think they got all the medical records from that clinic though, but I do not know if it had the 3-month limitations on it or if they got more information than they previously had.

      • ElleJay says:

        o’sneaky actually asked for george’s med records 30 DAYS before and 30 days after….( and he looked so “sly” about it….?) and yet he asked for trayvon’s school records back to forever…

        (…”i don’t know what his deal is..”.)

  87. I had a thought last night… pure conjecture, but plausible. When O’Mara took control of the GZ’s funds, many GZ supporters on the blogs and FB threads said that they wished there would be a way to get money directly to GZ without it going through O’Mara, especially during the mutinous period CHT experienced against MOM. Well, I think these supporters have found a way to circumvent GZLC altogether and support GZ directly.

    I don’t know if any of you read the letter of appreciation Z Sr. recently wrote to the CTH. Well, remember the very strange website he and Z’s mother put up seeking donations? I think that those donations were meant for GZ. Consider this: No court order forbade GZ’s parents from opening a bank account. I promise you (IMHO), any funds channeled through GZ’s parents’ website are going directly to GZ. SOMEONE REALLY NEEDS TO LOOK INTO THIS, or at least depose the parents (with threat of perjury) and ask specifically if the funds gained through the site have benefitted GZ in any way.

    • Jun says:

      I think they are already on that. Omara is already trying to get the State to pay George’s legal defense by claiming indigency and we all remember the caper that happened at the first bond application. George’s parents will be asked about that and then their website will be subpoenaed with their other info. I believe Omara gave up that idea afterward. So its up to Omara to get the money from George to pay himself, if that allegation of the circumvention is true with the money from the R&G website. It aint like they can hide it, its all on a computer.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’m sure many donate to RZ Sr.. Who knows whatever private connections GZ supporters have. There was a breakout group on FB who created a secret group there – they were outed once but created a new page with another name.

      • Jun says:

        I dont think its that big of an issue. Zimmerman and his family are now under a microscope. Its better off if the taxpayers dont have to pay his legal defense bill. Its Omara’s job to get paid now because of his fiasco with the first bond, its not likely they will believe him with no evidence regarding indigence and getting the state to foot the bill. If Zimmerman has money coming in, its gonna be traceable.

        • Xena says:

          I dont think its that big of an issue. Zimmerman and his family are now under a microscope. Its better off if the taxpayers dont have to pay his legal defense bill. Its Omara’s job to get paid now because of his fiasco with the first bond, its not likely they will believe him with no evidence regarding indigence and getting the state to foot the bill.

          Yes. I don’t think the court has to consider the defendant’s lifestyle. By that, I mean that GZ is homeless living in a safe house and needs security. He made his own choices when abandoning his job and home on 2/26/12, thereby creating the conditions he now lives under.

  88. Two sides to a story says:

    *breakout group from the old GZLC FB page*

  89. Brown says:

    @Everyone:

    I collect articles like this and I am reposting from WasSoInteresting a regular poster from BCCLIST

    Scroll to interview with Jeff Weiner. (GZ history of following people)

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46823223/ns/msnbc-politicsnation/t/politicsnation-wednesday-march/#.UI18J8XR5IG

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Okay, so in this article Benjamin Crump says that Dee Dee says that Trayvon entered through the front gate, giving her a “blow by blow”, he entered the gate code and ran to the mailboxes to shelter from the rain. I don’t remember seeing that in the depositions. So maybe the ones they posted weren’t complete?

      If this is true, GZ wasn’t headed to the store, he was actually looking for TM to return, since he’d be the only one on foot in the rain on this Sunday night. GZ knew there would be a black male on foot in the neighborhood, he probably also knew who TM was as well. Someone was doing their “home work”. I’m sure it wasn’t GZ, he hasn’t the capacity. Everything he comes up with is after the fact, to cover up what he’s already done. He never would have become NW Captain if someone hadn’t pushed him. Nor would he have gotten a concealed carry, if someone hadn’t pushed him. My guess is he only took those law courses in an attempt to ingratiate himself with his father. So there he is, being pushed again.

      • Brown says:

        CRUMP: The whole time when he went to store, when he came back from
        store. All day, they talk. When you look at the cell phone records that
        blows Zimmerman`s testimony out of the water. Because she says and it`s so
        logical when she tells the story. He was walking home from that 7-eleven,
        and it started raining. He ran into the complex, had to hit the code, got
        into the gate, went to the first building he saw to get out of the rain.
        Stood there, let the rain subside, then he starts that walking back. She
        calls him back because he got off when it was raining.

        OH MY GOD!!

        Lonnie we must tell Tchopi!!!

    • @Brown, WOWWWWWWWWW!!! Thanks for this article, there’s alot of very important points made by several VERY important people involved in this case!
      And i haven’t even finished b/c i gotta do some stuff in a minute. But here in one part i wanted everyone to read if they haven’t yet!

      But also everyone should read that whole article Brown just posted!!!!!

      ************************
      this is part of an interview about what the Former Chief Lee said before GZ was arrested. and look what Rev Sharpton says at the very end!! very early on!!!

      SHARPTON: Let me — because I`m short on time, but I want to ask you
      this specifically because it really bothers me. The Miami herald quotes
      Stanford police Chief Bill Lee on the state of the investigation. I want
      to show you this because you have to answer this for me.

      Quote “we are taking a beating over this” — this is the police chief
      in Sanford. “It is very unsettling. I`m sure if George Zimmerman had the
      opportunity to relive Sunday, February 26, he would probably do things
      differently. I`m sure Trayvon would too.”

      Well, first of all, how does he know the character of George Zimmerman
      and what he would do differently, and what did Trayvon do wrong that he
      would do differently? Trayvon went and bought some skittles, and an iced
      tea, and walked home. What would he have done differently?

      MADISON: Look, when I was 17-years-old, I was planning for my prom.
      When I was 17-years-old, I had a girlfriend. When I was 17-years-old, I
      was planning to go to college and play football. When I was 17 years old,
      I was planning to graduate from high school.

      You know, this chief of police has some nerve, identifying more with asailing than he does with this dead young kid who won`t to go to high
      school, won`t go to college, who won`t go to senior prom, who won`t have a
      girlfriend, who won`t have a life, who is dead. He ought to be identifying
      with the parents you interviewed today. This shows you just how – I mean,
      this chief of police ought to resign now. And tomorrow evening when we`re
      there, that`s exactly what I`m asking for. He just ought to just step
      down.

      SHARPTON: I think that you and others have said that. I think that
      may be too kind. I think that they need to be investigated — resignation
      maybe the least, some of them should be facing – some of them may face more
      serious problems if this investigation goes where I think it possibly could
      go.

    • Jun says:

      I dont know the whole complex, but I am sure the police scanned the whole neighborhood, and if it is true that the only way to get in is to use a code, then GZ is toast because I dont see anyone jumping a front gate fence like that in the rain and not slipping and hurting themselves. I dont know if Trayvon relayed that but if he didnt maybe Deedee heard him punching in the code.

      • Brown says:

        My question is why aren’t the logs of the entries and exits of the complex on 2/26/2012 in the discovery? Did they overlook this?

      • Jun says:

        I am not sure but it sounds like the gate is computerized so they should be able to get into it and figure out when it was accessed on that night, and they could match when Trayvon came in, if that is the only way to get in

      • rayvenwolf says:

        The only other way in from the “front” is through two cut throughs. The first is way down by Taffy’s place but requires you to go down hill. The next is right off from the side walk. That said if Trayvon went through the main gate then GZ is DONE, assuming they can get records from that night.

  90. CherokeeNative says:

    Hi all – Has anyone heard from Professor Leatherman? Haven’t seen him in a few days, just curious if everything is alright….

    @Lonnie and Deborah Garner-Moore: I would like someone to provide the link to the 911 recording that you can hear two voices in the screaming. I have listened to one 911 tape, and I cannot hear it. Maybe, if I listen to the link you have of it, I will have more luck. Thanks in advance.

    • @CherokeeNative:
      What I did was go to Youtube and listen to the various recordings from Trent Sawyer/StateoftheInternet, Skezo704, and our very own LLMPapa of course. There are various ones so you will have to pick out which one is the better quality tape. I had to find one that flitered out the other voices but I had to concentrate first of TM and then GZ! Some people pick up more of the dialogue than others. I wasn’t able to deciper these voices until now when I was able to listen and not fall to pieces hearing that boy screaming, and when I heard, “I’m begging you! I don’t know!” I thought of my own son, and daughters and wondered how I could keep sane knowing that I was sitting in a court-room, trying to maintain my dignity, knowing that the man who murdered my child is sitting a few feet away from me? I probably would pull an Elie Nesler! (Remember her posters)? RIP Elie!) (Sorry Xena! I am raging again!)

      • CherokeeNative says:

        Thanks Deborah – I am off to listen to recordings… :-)

      • Xena says:

        (Sorry Xena! I am raging again!)

        There’s no need to apologize to me of anyone else. It took me more than 50 times of listening to that 911 recording before I could listen for analysis purposes and even now, I am not desensitized — just driven — and happy — happy to know that MOM probably has or will soon have the FBI’s analysis. Bye, bye George. It’s all God’s plan.

        • @Xena:
          Hey! Just listening to the wind blowing outside of my house. Some of the streets are already flooded as well. Of course most NYers called out today, because the subway and bus system was shut down and it is very dangerous to be on the road. I just took a nap and then went to my computer.

          The more I hear the evidence gathered by the posters here about GZ, the more I truly hate him! He is a mentally ill man, who has been sick for a very long time. Why his parents covered up for him is beyond shameful.

          I also received an explanation from poster Brown on why GZ kept his voice at the level that he did, when re-renacting, the “screaming?” I was inquiring as to GZ’s voice. It sounds as if something is with his vocal cords? Brown stated that this con man has nothing wrong with his vocal cords! The louder GZ screams, the deeper his voice would become which is natural for a man who’s voice has matured. What a sly one he is? There is no way in HELL that a jury is going to believe that he was the one screaming, and yelling, “i don’t know! Mom help!”

          • Xena says:

            @Xena: Hey! Just listening to the wind blowing outside of my house. Some of the streets are already flooded as well.

            Here’s sending prayers and good thoughts your way for safety and protection.

            One thing that gives me a sense of confidence about GZ’s future is my spiritual belief. When GZ included God in justifying his actions, he made God a party to the case, and God does not play.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Deborah, I am pretty sure I hear Trayvon scream: “I don´t know EM (them)”. I believe it was Trent Sawyer who first noted this many months ago during one of his analysis of the clubhouse videos or 911 calls. When I also heard it I concluded GZ had collared Trayvon and, while holding him in an armlock, was trying to interrogate him, (alone or with Osterman as in one of Trent´s clubhouse lights analysis he also found a car speeding out of RTL by the front gate immediately after the shot) about the whereabouts of his supposed “accomplice”. It seems to fit because I recall reading early on in the case that for one of the last burglaries at RTL before the shooting only one burglar had been arrested when 2 or 3 had been seen doing the “job” but escaped before the police had arrived.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      my blog is a messy collection of it all, but once you find things you’ll always know where they are. There’s also a “search this blog” utility in the upper right corner. And there’s all the fun of digging in a junk yard or rustling around at a rummage sale, so have fun, oh and the Axiom Amnesia links are all there. [http://tinyurl.com/d4x2y6b] enjoy.

      Oh and did I mention that ScreaminJ has made transcripts of the 911 calls? Then pasted them into a timeline spreadsheet, which he’s adding to all the time. As far as the professor goes, I’m sure he’s just gotten busy with some project or other, or CraneStation would let us know.

  91. grahase says:

    Brown – Mr. Crump says DeeDee said Trayvon hid the code to get into the complex, the gate opened, the went to the first building to get out of the rain. OKAY – GZ didn’t see him beside the Taaffe house. He saw him enter the complex at the gate. IOWs, GZ KNEW he belonged in the neighbourhood — he had the code to get in!!!

    • PYorck says:

      Wow. I don’t doubt you, but do you have a source for that?

      That would be huge because it may be possible to prove that GZ lied during the NEN call, i.e. before the shooting and before bad memory comes into play.

      • Brown says:

        Yes please, please post source so I can have for files
        Thanks.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yep, I just posted the article to my collection [http://tinyurl.com/d4x2y6b] you’ll see it as the first article on the page, just click on read more. B. Crump says it in the show on air.

        Funny I don’t remember seeing this in DD’s depositions, this is the first I’ve read of it. Anyone?

        • PYorck says:

          Yes, it is weird. At the time we had only the NEN call and no other statements. The significance was not obvious then. Still it is strange that it never seems to have come up again – neither to confirm nor to refute it.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, it’s such an important piece of information we need to have it in the evidence report, because getting it second hand from Crump allows that he could be mistaken. If he is on point, it does terrible things to GZ. It doesn’t hurt GZ’s defense, because GZ has no defense left already, so nothing could hurt it any more.

        • Brown says:

          @Lonnie,
          I think just my thoughts, the reason she didn’t say it in her depo was because it wasn’t asked. If I was being interviewed by police, I would just answer their questions if I was 16. I think she was having a tough time in those interviews. Like the witness who took the pictures, he remembered he took the photos when fdle came into his home on March 20th. He didn’t tell Serino in his first interview on 2/26/2012 in his car.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, that’s reasonable, and the interview does have the feel of being rushed along. The interviewer isnt’ taking care to let her give her narrative, but is interrupting with questions. I hate when I see interviews done that way. You ask an open ended question and let them talk until they stop, then you ask if there’s anything they missed or would like to add, before you ask your next question.

            You never interrupt and never stop them to clarify until after they’ve finished. After you’ve got a transcript, then you ask for clarifications.
            Other wise it’s like trying to listen to music, and cutting the sound off every 10 seconds, it makes the composition sound like garbage. But interviewers are eager to show off their skills, and thus they reveal that they haven’t any. Oh well. If there’s more we won’t know it for quite a while. Unless it’s in the dumps we have and no one noticed it, which has happened before.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Hadn´t heard this before either but if the case it could be really really important. I mean, what “houses” could GZ see Trayvon casing if he was from first sight sheltering at the clubhouse or mailboxes where there are none near enough? And what houses down TTL could Trayvon have cased when according to the time line Trayvon whipped down that lane so quick he had no time to “look about the houses” ? I may be wrong but as I see it, GONE “suspicious guy” who was “l-e-e-e-surely” walking in the rain “looking around the houses” raising GZ´s suspicions in the first place, and BACK racial profiling… wow!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Uh oh, grahase, do you have this document? This is extremely important because, as you can see from Tchoupi’s work [http://tinyurl.com/d4x2y6b] GZ doesn’t go out the front gate, so he can’t be on his way to go shopping.

      If GZ saw TM come in the front gate, then he waited inside near the clubhouse. That’s “laying in wait”. It also means that TM arrived back at RATL after 7pm, or the gate would have been open already, and it means that GZ’s story about the whole episode over at Taaffe’s is total BS. But, it also means a whole bunch of other things, which is why I’ll need to see exactly what was said and have the document before I try to figure out how much else can be predicated upon it.

      It’s time for all of us to get back to searching and providing documents for our claims. That way we won’t have to back off our speculations, as we have to do until we can substantiate what we’ve decided we can claim. Just reading what others are saying isn’t getting it anymore, because this thing is approaching premeditated murder, and that means we need documents galore. Also, I’m afraid that if we don’t start getting things documented as we go, this can easily take the next step up to “conspiracy to commit murder”, and at that point we’d better be able to document to the max.

      I expected it would go this way quite some time ago, now it’s getting closer and closer to it. It’s time to start backing up our speculations and theories as best we can from here on.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That would knock that defense for a major loop.

    • Brown says:

      Thanks Grahase, for pointing it out. like I said in another post. was running around and did not read entire article, just the “following part”. I have read entire article now and have to double check on some other things.

    • grahase says:

      We discussed this long, long ago. someone here stated the same thing. That is, how could Trayvon be looking into houses or looking at houses because there were none where he was when he entered the complex. This was discussed after the transcript was available and the program aired. This exactly why there is a stalling tactic on the part of the defense. As time passes, these little details are quickly forgotten.

  92. Fed-up taxpayer says:

    This has sort of become Prof. Leatherman’s Vidocq Society.

  93. Jun says:

    As per the code… I believe there will be a record of its computer and they can go back to that night to see what it was opened by the code.

  94. Xena says:

    Oh my goodness LLMPapa. I just saw your new video and realized that GZ demonstrated how he pulled Trayvon’s clothes towards him.

    • rachael says:

      OMG, this is so good. You can say more in less than 2 minutes than anyone can in well, than anyone! Incredible video.

    • Jun says:

      LOL Thats why I think Omara’s argument will go nowhere. Its beyond a shadow of a doubt that George killed a kid. He was also heard stalking and chasing the same kid he killed beforehand. Thats a reasonable suspicion and a probable cause a murder had occurred. Under SYG 776.032 Part 2 it even states that the State is allowed to continue investigation and arrest on probable cause for charges. Governor Scott would simply state that and he has a duty to the citizens of Florida in regards to crime, especially violent crime. Then the judge would likely tell Omara to STFU

    • Patricia says:

      @ Xena
      @LLMPapa

      BINGO! Xena.
      I have wanted for some time to ask LLMPapa to illustrate “Zimmerman clutching Trayvon’s hoodie” on video
      to prove that he was, indeed, IN CONTROL of Trayvon
      when he fired the shot.

      Just use the Sanford PD videos.

      It clicked for you, Xena, watching the video of GZ helpfully explaining to the stress-test operator how he shot Trayvon.
      With his rright hand.

      You saw what Zimmerman’s dominant (more powerful) LEFT HAND was doing, as he recounted the drama, right?

      Next, in the re-creation for Sanford PD on February 28, out on the grassy area by the T, George goes through the contortions of getting the Kel-Tek out of his backside holster.

      With the same funny crab-like movement of his left (dominant hand) -like an upside-down spider, OBVIOUSLY RE-CREATING HOW HE GRASPED TRAYVON’S SHIRTS, BUT HOLDING HIS LEFT HAND OUT OF THE WAY SO ZIMMERMAN WOULD NOT SHOOT IT.

      AND THEN SAYS HE SHOT TRAYVON.

      I would like LLMPapa to include Zimmerman’s quote about how he had to be careful not to shoot his own hand.

      We know what his left hand was doing so close to the center of Trayvon’s chest, so near Trayvon’s beating heart … don’t we.

      Add Chris Sirino’s comment (please, punch up the sound):
      “We call that wrist control.”

      TELL ME, ZIMMERMAN WHEN YOU HAD THAT KID GRABBED LIKE THAT, AND PUT A GUN TO HIS HEART –
      just how did it save your worthless life to pull that trigger?

      • grahase says:

        The stress-test guy also said wrist control.

        • Patricia says:

          @ grahase –

          “The stress-test guy also said wrist control” THANK YOU.

          It was like these guys were thinking ahead, “I hope I can star in an LLMPapa Video!”

      • sdunn5 says:

        Stunning, factual, chilling….!!

        • Patricia says:

          @ sdunn5 -

          ONLY if LLMPapa will edit the video clips together, in his own INIMITABLE way, with the real live voices of Zimmerman and Chris Serino … and add LLMPapa’s incisive comments that continue to bowl us all over …

      • Fed-up taxpayer says:

        I absolutely HATE the”false modesty” GZ shows each time he describes pulling the trigger, nails scraping the blackboard, as far as I’m concerned. Almost as if to forestall the barrage of praise he foresees. No regrets then, now, ever. Can’t even fake it.
        Monstrous.

  95. Xena says:

    @LLMPapa. BTW, I don’t mean to jump ahead of you when posting your new vids. It’s just that I get so excited with what you share and the way you go about it.

  96. Xena says:

    Well, we can forget about trial. Trent Sawyer has eaten George Zimmerman. LOL!!! Warning: Strong Language

    • Patricia says:

      @ Trent,

      I just wish I had a smart, gutsy gay son like you with a command of the visceral language, visualization of Zimmerman’s contortionist excuses, and two Cabbage Patch dolls to help tell the story. Prejudice is prejudice – impure and simple.

      You’re absolutely correct, Trent, that this is a RACE issue.

      Trayvon was a precious member of the HUMAN RACE, with much promise and a great future.

      Zimmerman, his family and all the Zidiots are not.

      NOT EVEN SUB-HUMAN.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Patricia, such a beautiful complement for Trent who, IMO, has done so much for this case from the start (of course along with those such as LLMpapa, Tchoupi, Whonoze, etc.).

        I recall 3 or 4 months ago when the Zimfan ManyBuddies first uploaded the various Clubhouse Videos MB´s comment for the upload was to the effect, “WTF are the prosecution going to do with 45 mins of this boring stuff”. Trent didn´t see it that way and conscientiously analysed them frame by frame and not only was able to track a lot of GZ´s, Trayvon´s and the police´s movements with the lights but discovered that the time-stamps were 18/20 minutes out many weeks before anyone else and before the police or prosecution had ever disclosed that fact.

        For me Trent can cuss all he likes because his heart is so true and transparent that he is also a very precious human being.

    • Malisha says:

      Trent, you da MAN!

      This is not only hilarious and inspired, but it’s also spiritual! I never really liked idols that much but I’m beginning to waver…
      Your talking head guy is my new Buddha!

    • TRENT,
      YOU DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING YOU SAY OR DO! FUCK ALL OF THE ZIMMERLOVERS!!

      WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU A DO AND WHY YOU DO IT! YOU ARE NOT THE ENEMY, YOU’RE THE HERO!

      YOU HAVE BEEN A INVALUABLE RESOURCE OF INFORMATION FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING THE STATE, THE MARTIN’S AND THEIR ATTORNYS!
      (That’s why Ms,J & Mr.C STAY in touch with YOU!!)

      the zimmerlovers are intimidated by you. And they’re super pissed off that you’ve dedicated so much of YOUR talent, college education, intelligence and humor (none of which they possess themselves) to shine a huge spotlight on the truth of the murder of a defenseless kid committed by GZ!

      Besides, i love your potty mouth and wouldn’t want you any other way :)
      xoxo shannon

      • @Shannon: Thank you, thank you, thank you! As I sit thanking god for my life, my childrens life and the life of my husband and family, as I look at my city of New York City, Long Island and our sister State, New Jersey suffer thru this devastation of the storm, I can come to the Professor’s Blog and count on all of you to carry on.

        Trent is amazing isn’t he? He makes the Zimmerfools so ANGRY and if you ask them to refute his evidence, they never come back! LOL! They are angry because he presents truth and he refutes the many lies of GZ and they cannot stand it! He is also white, non biased and gay too? Racists cannot stand that combination! LOL! Trent is my man and I know that his mom would be so proud of him. He is one intelligent man! People like him, the Professor, and LLMPapa are possessed with a gift along with so many on this board. I am glad to be associated with such gifted human beings. They live the true meaning of what MLK lived for and died for.

  97. Jun says:

    What I learned from this case is that there should be better training in law enforcement and elevating standards of excellence. This is a lot of work for one murder, and there are many murders in America. If there could be a way to have quality and efficient work done, the communities could be a lot safer.

    • Kyma says:

      Can’t agree more with you. This should have been a straight forward case and there were breakdowns at so many levels. Worse is that this is not unique. I think LE needs new rigorous standards of training and protocol.

      • Malisha says:

        The “breakdowns at so many levels” have a name. Collectively they are called “cover-up” which is a form of a larger thing called “Corruption.”

      • Jun says:

        Which is why I was recommending better training and elevating standards of excellence because the numbskulls would have been weeded out long ago.

        It is somewhat working in that Zimmerman was never hired as a policeman as they could already see he was not fit for it.

        I however agree that this should have been done way faster. Zimmerman should have been held for the 72 hours or whatever for suspicion, the neighborhood scoured, the cops to seal off the crime scene, forensics done, ballistics done, history checked on shooter, vehicle secured, phone calls checked, video footage and audio footage scoured.

        One of the witnesses stated long ago that they were heading north on the back pathway.

        That already contradicts Zimmerman’s story, because his story is he got hit and fell on his ass right away at the T intersection and got mounted and death beat or he got hit and then stumbled forward making tiger swipe motions and south a few feet and somehow Trayvon mounted him for the death beating.

        This should have been figured out in a week and because they took so long, it simply festered and grew into a movement of millions of people.

  98. Jun says:

    Okay i thought of the discussion regarding the gated code. They should simply ask Tracy Martin and Brandy Green as well as Brandy’s kid regarding the gated code and scour the neighborhood for various entrances and Martin’s likely entrance since he came from 7-11. If it is in fact the front gate and back gate the only methods of entrance, and Trayvon and his lil step brother also had the code, then it was fairly obvious how Trayvon came in and went out. It also blows away George’s story some more.

    • grahase says:

      Only front and back gates. Trayvon ran to get out of the rain to the mailbox area — close to the front gate.

      • Jun says:

        okay well then yes, he entered through the front gate and should also know the code or have the FOB key.

        • Brown says:

          Shouldn’t the state suponea the records for the front gate @ the RATL?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, it looks like they probably would not have, seeing how we were all blindsided by GZ’s claim that TM used one of the cut through’s to come in. Nobody paid much attention to what Crump claimed in that article until now, guess we expected to find it in DD’s depositions, since it wasn’t there, nobody paid much attention to what was in the various news articles.

            In any event, now we’re cooking, looks like we’re getting even closer to the truth and it’s beginning to look nothing like it did when this thing started. GZ just keeps getting in deeper and deeper the more evidence we discover.

          • jm says:

            Lonnie says: “GZ just keeps getting in deeper and deeper the more evidence we discover.”

            Couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy. No wonder GZ looks so awful and not cocky and self-assured as he did previously.

            Is someone able to make the prosecution aware of the “internet detectives” findings?

            PS: Did Judge Nelson rule on gag order yet?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Oh, I’m pretty sure that any high profile case since OJ, both teams assign people to scan the internet for them. Then there are the internet “clipping services”, they work just like media clipping services, you give them your search strings and they synopsize whatever they find w/links, and email it to you once a day or week as you choose. I’m sure the treehouse is being scanned to see what MOM is picking up on there, providing the prosecutors with hours of light hearted entertainment.

            This blog comes up quickly in google searches, so I’m absolutely certain it’s being followed closely. There’s such a huge mass of documents that have to be carefully digested, it can’t hurt to have a large group of people looking for the anomalies. Once something of interest is found, the prosecutors next step is to test, document and/or confirm it independantly.

      • Jun says:

        They should ask Tracy, Brandy, and his lil step brother about the code and then subpoena for the gate code computer to see if they can get into the records, which it should have I believe. I am not sure if there are different codes for each tenant or one code for the whole neighborhood. Or perhaps its one where Trayvon buzzed his lil stepbrother to let him in. or a FOB key. I am not sure but perhaps they could find out.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          @Jun: If I remember correctly, someone over on the bcclist.com pulled up the RATL sales prospectus or such, and it gave out the whole nine yards about entrance codes.

          I seem to remember that each resident could either buzz people in, when they were called using the intercom at the gate or made contact by cell phone with a resident. The residents could also make and issue codes they could give to people who lived with them or were coming to visit, and they could set these codes to expire or not. So there seemed to be plenty of choices.

          We also didn’t find out if house entry was by key or code pad. Which would explain why we didn’t see GZ carrying house keys in the doc. dump.

          Maybe someone can google up the offering package for RATL which may have the info we’re seeking. My guess is you’d need to find the owning corp for RATL and maybe contact them? But, it may also be available on the web. I can’t look now, too much to do, I’ll have to wait for later.

      • grahase says:

        No FOB key was found on him so I will assume it is just a code to get in.

      • Jun says:

        Trayvon was staying for a week, so he would obviously have the code or was buzzed in. I dont know how the system works but it sounds like a deafening blow to Zimmerman’s story.

    • grahase says:

      If there is a FOB key needed and it wasnt on Trayvons person, he had no ID either. Did he leave it at home or was it removed by someone to delay identification. Just thinking out loud.

      • Jun says:

        there is potential he had to get buzzed in by paging his step brother

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Delay id??? That key would have told everyone that Trayvon belonged in the community. George frisked Trayvon, so I guess if he found it, he flung it to where one of his cohorts could carry it away. Just in case anyone wants another conspiracy theory, :lol:

  99. PYorck says:

    Ever since I listened to the full DeeDee/BDLR interview for the first time some things bothered me.

    She mentioned the “mail shed” and she was very clear that Trayvon waited somewhere after being followed by GZ. When TM thought that GZ is no longer around, he started to walk home. Some time after that he spotted GZ again and their conversation continued at least a bit before the two encountered each other.

    That is very difficult to reconcile with the NEN call even if you don’t believe the rest GZ’s story. Mainly there is simply very little time for all that between the end of GZ’s call and the start of the 911 call.

    Of course a possible explanation is that there are major lies in the NEN call. So far I thought that it would be hard to prove. That is still true. But I also thought that it didn’t make much sense to speculate about that too much without a clear alternative because once you disregard the NEN call, all bets are off.

    What Crump said in that article could be an alternative explanation. Of course it remains to be seen if Crump really meant it that way and if it can be confirmed.

    If at least the beginning of the NEN call was a fabrication, then that would explain why GZ reused whole phrases from an earlier incident and why his timelines are so implausible if you take them at face value.

    Of course such a thing would be disasterous for GZ. A lie at such an early stage would be very hard to reconcile with a simple neighborhood watch operation that went wrong. Instead it would prove very unfavorable things about his state of mind.

    I just hope Crump really meant it and was not only speculating about the most likely course of events.

    • Xena says:

      She mentioned the “mail shed” and she was very clear that Trayvon waited somewhere after being followed by GZ. When TM thought that GZ is no longer around, he started to walk home. Some time after that he spotted GZ again and their conversation continued at least a bit before the two encountered each other. That is very difficult to reconcile with the NEN call even if you don’t believe the rest GZ’s story.

      There were 2 calls. The one while Trayvon was in the mail shed was received at 6:54 p.m. That call was subsequently lost and Trayvon received another call at 7:04 that was also subsequently lost.

      GZ did not make his NEN call until 7:09.
      At 7:11:44, GZ says “Shit. He’s running.”

      Trayvon received another call from DeeDee at 7:12 p.m. Within seconds, GZ changed his tone and his plans on where he would meet the cops, asking if they could call him for his location. He heard Trayvon’s phone ring and/or Trayvon talking, which gave away Trayvon’s location.

      GZ ended his NEN call at 7:13:39.

      Trayvon told DeeDee he lost the creepy guy. Then, he tells DeeDee that he sees him again and he was getting closer.

      80 seconds thereafter, the first 911 call was received from a resident. The confrontation was well underway and the gunshot captured on that call.

      Trayvon’s call with DeeDee disconnected around 7:16. Before disconnecting, DeeDee heard Trayvon ask “What are you following me for?” and the creepy guy ask “What are you doing around here.”

      • PYorck says:

        Oh, I don’t really disagree with any of that. I just wanted to say how the timeline described in the NEN doesn’t seem right even if you accept just a few basic points from DeeDee’s testimony.

        • Xena says:

          @PYorck. The timeline in GZ’s NEN call doesn’t seem right, because Trayvon probably didn’t leave the mail shed until GZ said “Shit. He’s running.” I would like for someone with the technical talent to prepare a virtual of Trayvon running from the mail shed until he passed the T. Logically, a vehicle couldn’t follow him there and he thought he had lost GZ. He could take his time, catch his breathe, and talk to his girl.

          Also logically, Trayvon was not looking behind him when he saw GZ coming towards him. GZ was coming from RVC and his story about being there looking for an address was a CYA just in case someone saw him on RVC.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Live and learn… I just put a copy of the Trent Sawyer video to my collection [http://tinyurl.com/d4x2y6b] He’s got a new path for the way TM ran. It becomes even more clear that GZ had to know where TM was staying, to know how to intercept him. Otherwise, TM would certainly have lost GZ, if he ran north and used the cut through to come back across the T along the red line.

            GZ couldn’t see which way TM was going to go, after TM left his sight. TM could have gone back over to the cut through near Taaffe’s and out. But GZ didn’t even consider it, he went right over to RVC east, by which time, TM would have emerged from between the north houses and began his run south on the dog walk.

            The story is changing fast, stay tuned.

      • Jun says:

        Trayvon actually walked for a bit and then ran. Trayvon told Deedee that he was walking.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Xena, I have for a long time pondered over something and recently seeing your knowledge of DD and Trayvon´s calls I wanted to ask you is there any call on Trayvon or DD´s log that coincides with the last second/s the NEN on DD or Trayvon´s log?

        My point is, at the very end of the NEN just after Sean signs off and, IMO at least, before the recording software cuts (I believe it is technically possible that operator connection cuts a second or two before the recording software does), in that last second there is the sound of a telephone ringing which IMO sounds in GZ´s vecinity. My conclusion has been either GZ had another mobile, someone else was there (Osterman), or it was DD calling Trayvon which unfortunately discovered his wheareabouts to GZ.

        I had a run in on this blog with Justincaselawgic on the blog before he was banned months ago. He believed the ringing came from the control room but I doubt this as there are no sounds from the control room throughout the NEN and if hardware and software is properly set up that is how it should be as I cannot imagine controllers are allowed phones as they not only distract but can dirty recordings that may be of life and death significance.

        • Xena says:

          Xena, I have for a long time pondered over something and recently seeing your knowledge of DD and Trayvon´s calls I wanted to ask you is there any call on Trayvon or DD´s log that coincides with the last second/s the NEN on DD or Trayvon´s log?

          If the State has DeeDee’s phone log, it has not been released. What I have is the copy that Tracy provided to attorney Crump. The phone log does not break down into seconds. There is a call received at 7:12 p.m. That could have been 7:12 and one second up to 59 seconds.

          … in that last second there is the sound of a telephone ringing which IMO sounds in GZ´s vecinity.

          I too hearing the ringing phone. Whether or not it was Trayvon’s, something caught GZ’s attention because his tone changed — he sounded distracted, and he also changed his plans on where to meet the cops. GZ’s NEN call ends at 7:13:39. Let’s presume that GZ started walking from the time he heard the phone ring or Trayvon’s voice talking on the phone. GZ had enough time to take a short-cut to RVC to cut Trayvon off and confront him. The first 911 call was received from a resident at 7:16:13.

          Trayvon’s phone log provides that the call disconnected at 7:16. Again, that could be 7:16 and one, two, three, etc. seconds. The 911 call captured the gunshot at 7:16:56.

        • Patricia says:

          @GBRG
          @Xena

          A few months back when we were examing the NEN call I reported a clear ring tone just before GZ/SeanNEN terminated the call.

          My computer has poor sound, so much that was recorded by Serino, for example, I can’t interpret. But I heard that phone ring CLEARLY.

          I considered the location of the phone ringing to be very close to GZ.

          What was offered back to me is that it would be necessary to examine Trayvon Martin’s phone’s ringtone.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @Xena

        Thanks for the info/explanation.

    • Jun says:

      Witness 18 and a few other witnesses can give a better idea of the positions and they are going to contradict all of Zimmerman’s stories.

      I think George’s plans backfired when Trayvon noticed and ran for it, hence George uttering “Shit, he’s running” “He ran” “He’s running down the street” and during that time Zimmerman clearly got out his car and proceeded to chase the kid and continue his pursuit.

      I dont know if there are any other entrances, besides the front and back gate, or if the gates are the only entrances, and if a FOB or code is needed. Considering the video footage and the location of the 7-11, the most likely entrance for Trayvon to take was the front gate. I believe he was there at the mail shed at 6:54pm as that is when he received a call from Deedee and he relayed that to her. It sounds very plausible that Trayvon went through the front gate and entered the code. My guess is both the step brother, him, Tracy, Brandy, all know the code.

      Now onto the how it helps Zimmerman… it actually doesnt really help him but if proven to be the case of how Trayvon got in, it makes it worse for Zimmerman because it adds further holes in his story and claims. The end result is still the same in that he wasnt allowed to interfere and infringe on this kid’s right to his personal space and security.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I’ve read that no code is needed before 7pm because that’s when the gate closes. If TM used his code to get in, doesn’t that mean he arrived at the front gate after 7pm?

        • Brown says:

          I have thought of that, I came to the conclusion that it was maybe closed a little early, considering that maybe GZ was patrolling and not going to the store maybe he closed it early. He has extensive knowledge of who operates the CCTV at the clubhouse, he even had his number in his cell phone. He may had the ok by HOA to do that, jMO

      • Malisha says:

        George said, “He ran.”
        Sean asked where he ran.
        George answered, “to the back entrance.”

        FROM the front entrance TO the back entrance.

        To me, the most important single sentence George has ever uttered that was reported by either the press or the police/evidence dumps was this one:

        “These assholes, they always get away.”

      • Jun says:

        To be honest that is something I dont know. If that is true than Zimmerman started following him from Trayvon walking down the street, if he entered after 7pm, if that is how the coding system works. I am not even sure how the gate code or entrances work in that neighborhood. For all I know, Trayvon may not even have the code and had to buzz his step brother to buzz him in. There’s no way for me to know for sure.

      • nemerinys says:

        Lonnie Starr, I’d read the same thing – that the gates were closed at 7pm, implying that they were open until then. However, I was just looking over the RATL newsletters in the first discovery (5/15/12), and the one for February 2012 states:

        “Now that Lennar has completed all construction, the gates will be closed at all times. See contact information for Laura Mills below if you still need a gate code or remote.” (page 150)

        If Trayvon left and/or entered the complex through the front gate, he would have needed the code.

    • Xena says:

      PYorck. I’m embedding a vid that Trent Sawyer prepared. It is the clearest presentation I’ve seen using the clubhouse vids. Trent was the first to catch that the timing on the clubhouse vids is incorrect, before discovery was released verifying that the time is about 18 minutes slow.

      In his presentation, Trent uses the clubhouse vids and GZ’s NEN call to describe where GZ was physically, and what he was saying to dispatch. At one point you can see a figure walk pass a door that is thought to be Trayvon with headlights slowly following him.

      One thing for sure — the State entered the videos into discovery. They haven’t and shouldn’t say what they know from the videos, but we know they are important enough to the State in prosecuting GZ.

      • Jun says:

        Couldnt they use some type of video software to clean up and enhance? They could also use the reflections in the pool

        • Xena says:

          Couldnt they use some type of video software to clean up and enhance? They could also use the reflections in the pool

          What we are seeing are the vids projected from someone else’s computer screen. The original might look very different, or just maybe the State knows and can describe what is seen on the vids. They may also have an expert witness. I did notice on Friday that Bernie had a smile on his face when Judge Nelson asked when both sides would have their list of expert witnesses prepared.

      • whonoze says:

        I think Trent’s analysis of these videos is way off. If DeeDee is correct about where Trayvon was when their call dropped – and I believe she is – he was under the mailbox awning before GZ left home. We are working on these vids (slowly) at bcc.list, based on tchoupi’s thorough analysis of the light patterns. The gist of it is:
        1. George spots TM at the clubhouse while driving East on RVC.
        2. He make a U-turn and drives back West past the clubhouse to double check.
        3. He makes a second U-Turn, heading back East on RVC, but this time turns South onto TTL.
        4. He cruises VERY slowly past the mailbox area
        5. He gets his phone and dials NEN.
        6. He drives on, turning the corner on TTL, and then makes another U-Turn and turns off his lights,parked now in a position where he can surveil Trayvon.
        7. Trayvon, aware that this guy is scoping him out, decides he’d better head home, which takes him roughly in the direction of GZ’s truck at first (“Now he’s coming to towards me.” “Yeah, he’s coming to check me out.”)
        8. Trayvon passes GZ’s truck and heads for the T, still walking, trying to keep cool.
        9. GZ turns the truck around yet again, so it’s now facing the T. Trayvon realizes the truck is moving, and tells DeeDee he’s being followed by the truck.
        10. Just as Trayvon gets to the T, he breaks into a run, and rounds the corner onto the ‘dog walk’ sidewalk, disappearing from GZ’s view.
        11. GZ get’s out of the truck and runs after him.

        What happens after that is more speculative, as there is no visual evidence, only DeeDee’s account, and GZ’s NEN call. And the sequence above IS interpretive. While I believe tchoupi’s analysis is a far better fit to the physical evidence of the light patterns, the fact is Trent did come to a different conclusion, so it’s not ‘no-brainer’ obvious.

        The main things I take away from tchoupi’s analysis is that GZ did NOT see Trayvon walking, looking at houses, etc. He just assumed all that ‘suspicious’ behavior. We can see from the 7-11 video that hoodie or no hoodie TM looked like a pretty clean-cut kid that evening, but GZ saw ‘black male loitering by mailboxes’ and immediately dialed the police, not even waiting until he parked his truck. He was so prepared to encounter a “fucking coon asshole” he couldn’t conceive of Trayvon in any other way, and interpreted every innocent thing Trayvon did through this warped lens of attitude and perception.

      • Pooh says:

        Whonoze et al,

        Well, now this could get really interesting if it can be shown that TM came in through the front gate using a code. Most everyone has taken GZ’s word that TM came through the shortcut near FT’s house, like so many kids apparently did, and GZ followed him from there. But now it may be GZ has just completely made up the part about seeing TM standing at 1460 whatever — conflating it with some earlier episode which it seems he also did when talking with Singleton and/or Serino? Remember when Singleton had to ask him something like, “Are you talking about then or now?”

        GZ just keeps getting weirder.

    • grahase says:

      In one of GZ interviews with LE, he lets slip in his narrative. LLMPapa, I think, has a video dealing with this one. You all know he feels Trayvon is suspicious because he wasn’t trying to get out of the rain, he wasn’t a hard core athlete, and on and on. However, in the usual GZ fashion, he includes — he didn’t look like he was getting the mail. Only said it once. But, I found it an interesting slip when I listened to the interviews. He does those slips every now and again — but only says the real incriminating ones —once. As LLMPapa says — you cant fix stupid!

      • gbrbsb says:

        Exactly. Why would GZ mention picking up post if Travon wasn´t at the Mailboxes. If we believe GZ´s story, he was at the clubhouse when Trayvon walked past him (“coming towards me”) to cut through down TTL. From the clubhouse he couldn´t see if Trayvon had stopped at the Mailboxes to shelter from the rain and why would anyone stop there anyway with a “creepy” guy following them!

        It seems like the puzzle could be coming together, i.e. the first time GZ sees Trayvon is at the Mailboxes when driving around probably on his NW and which is where his slip about Trayvon not looking like someone picking up mail stems from . Then, did he go and park at the clubhouse to call NEN or straight down to the cut through from where he could observe Trayvon at the mailboxes and then “coming towards me” and “circling” his car, (circling = giving GZ´s car a wide birth to keep clear of the creep inside!) That would also explain the absurd speed with which according to GZ´s time-line, Trayvon walked from the clubhouse to the cut through and on up to the T before GZ notes, “he´s running”, and GZ running up the cut through to RVC to see if he sees the “coon” emerge from between the housing running to the back entrance, “he ran”, and then quick back to the T to look for the “asshole” that he didn´t want to get away once he realised Trayvon would not have had time to reach the gate and was therefore still in the area probably up the dog walk where he saw him go !

      • Malisha says:

        Nobody picks up their mail on a Sunday evening. The thought of the mail would have never even entered into George’s mind unless he had first spotted Trayvon at the mailboxes. I think he and Shellie located Trayvon at the mailboxes and waited there, setting up the “bust” with the NEN so George could go and become a hero bringing in his criminal. Perhaps they even had in mind that it would become a “he threatened my wife and I had to protect her” kind of thing until it ended up with a killing. “Call my wife; tell her I shot somebody” could have resulted in a cell-phone to cell-phone call and Shellie could have been in the vehicle, receiving the call from George, and then calling Osterman, who would have told her in no uncertain terms, “Go Home.”

  100. grahase says:

    Priceless — the post by Brown from Politics Nation with The Reverend Al Sharpton, etc.. After I read the article, I posted that I noticed that Ben Crump said Trayvon pressed the code to the gate,…. Well, almost immediately, at the CTH, someone posted that same article because they are after Crump (still). Someone suggested sending that article to MOM right away. First they copy what Trent has posted on YouTube. Then, they take credit for finding information when really all they did was look on this site. They seem to be working very hard for MOM but are too lazy to research anything for themselves.

    • Xena says:

      First they copy what Trent has posted on YouTube. Then, they take credit for finding information when really all they did was look on this site. They seem to be working very hard for MOM but are too lazy to research anything for themselves.

      LOL!!! The funny thing about when they posted Trent’s vids, they hadn’t bothered listening/watching first to know he had commentary in them. They actually posted pro-Trayvon vids.

      Isn’t their ignorance sad? They still think that they can turn the State of Florida v. George Zimmerman into Zimmerman v. Crump, Jackson, Rev. Sharpton, NAACP. But, they aren’t bigoted racists, right? HA!!

      Yes, they keep a keen eye on this blog. When they tire of changing handles to back-pat their other handles and have nothing original, they come over here to see what they can find to criticize or use.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Some of the very same people that you are talking about here, are some of the very ones that the HP has allowed to run amok on their site. they care allowed to take up an entire page with their nonsense while those who support Trayvon, aren’t havving any of their comments posted there. they also flagging and having comments removed, that don’t even violate the guidelines there. a lot of people have left that site and, since one of them had me banned, I will “NEVER” go back there and open up another account with them. I believe who ever owns that site, are allowing this to go on because, these people are saying what they themselves want to say but can’t.

        • Xena says:

          Some of the very same people that you are talking about here, …

          When I first discovered the Black Voices section on HP and signed up, it was for a specific journalist. All comments went into moderation. I suppose that different “bloggers” or journalists have their own setup of what is and what is not allowed.

          I found that internet “news sites” such as HP and Yahoo have “reporters” that are paid by articles, and comments play an important part on calculating compensation to the writer. It has been said that there are paid inflamers to bait arguments to keep the comments going even days after the article has been posted and is “stale.”

          I suppose to put it in a nutshell, it’s about money and not opinions.

  101. Jun says:

    What is the name of the objection if the defense or defendant keeps repeating lies over and over, even after being proven wrong many times with scientific evidence of its implausibility and in the face of physics and the eyes and ears of other witnesses?

    I know they can object, I am just not sure what the objection is called… I think that is what happened with the rapist at Nelson’s trial as the rapist was used to bullying his way with everything, including having the statements only his way

  102. Browns posted article was an interview from March 21, A day before the huge demonstration in Sanford, only 4 weeks after the murder, so i think it was a little less than 2 weeks from Crump’s interview with DD. I doubt he’d forget something so serious he believed was important enough to mention on the air, and probably provable with simply checking the computers. But it might not be on the recording he made with her on the phone. He must of talked with her before that too so might just remember it… IDK. but again it’s the SPD’s fault for NOT BOTHERING TO LOOK AT T’s PHONE that was laying there in plan sight!! makes me sick!

    Another thing i keep forgetting ( to your point Lonnie) Corey asked explicitly that anyone with any information to call her, and she gave her number. So we could feel confident to send her anything we find all neat and organised in a little bow, and she’d be happy to have it! And Lonnie is right, we have to have anything properly documented for her to use….

    personally i’m not very organised but if someone tells me what i could do to help them with the busy work or reading or whatever, please tell me!!

    • Patricia says:

      @Shannon –

      You may be sorry you volunteered your help …

      Can you get me that early on-air quote by Robert Jr. (TV, I believe) wherein Jr. states that TRAYVON was kneeling on George’s arms – however it is that Jr. describes the “Trayvon mounted on top, George pulling gun and shooting from below.”

      Obviously Roberto Sr. and Jr. were told this “story” by George.

      The reason I want it is that George has a penchant for taking something HE did and ascribing it to Trayvon. (But George did not seem to tell them of “the pain George endured” through all this.)

      It was a way to rig, then publicize GZ’s fake alibi.

      I do not have the fortitude to listen to Robert Sr. or Jr. once again.

      I’m throwing myself on the mercy of your youthful experience.

      Sending hugs to that sweet baby -

      With great thanks,

      Patricia

      • PATRICIA, no problem, that’s awesome!
        Oh, and I know ain’t he’s a cute lil knuckle head!!LOL I call him Ally. That’s his “DUH!” face!

        And as much as i cannot stand RZjr’s whinny whimpering voice, i’ll start gathering all of his media lies!

        BTW, i’ve been watching him and along w/his Twitter posts and interviews, i’ve begun to suspect he might actually be jealous of all the attention GZ is getting! He wants to be famous! There’s been some off hand remarks that tell me there’s some sort of competition between them, even NOW with GZ looking at M2 charges!
        See you guys tomorrow, Night! :)

        • Patricia says:

          Shannon, you are a GEM!

          What is Ally’s real name – Alexander, Alan, “All Things Bright & Beautiful” – I like that one, a lot. Fits!

          Thank you for being willing to wade though all the Zimmermuck siblng rivalry. George is Mr. Success in that family – world famous by name (nortoriety, actually) and the only family member to rake in over $200,000 in less than two weeks. To the Zimmermans, that’s EVERYTHING!

          Again, sending my thanks to you!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Keep an eye out for information about when exactly GZ posted “datniggytb” on his facebook page. We need to document that it was on 2/27/12 at 12 noon or so. Earlier is better.

      • jm says:

        Did GZ have a Facebook account on 02/27/2012. Does prosecution know about it? I am only familiar with the old MySpace account

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Ah, I’ll recognize his name if I see it, but it’s not on this thread. He remembered reading that GZ had a facebook page up with “datniggytb” on it on 2/27 at 12pm, he’s sure it was facebook, but he has so far been unable to find it or document it.

          I saw the myspace account too, but he was sure it was a facebook page, said he’d look for the docs. I guess the conversation got carried over to several threads and I’ve got way to many to search them all. But that’s what we’re looking to document. If you come across anything be sure to let us know.

      • Malisha says:

        Lonnie S, somehow this completely evaded my attention. WHAT?? George Zimmerman posted “datniggytb” on HIS OWN facebook page the day after killing Trayvon Martin? I’m not getting it. I’m not understanding.

        Who is the alleged “no-limit-nigga” that the folks are all excited about? Was that just some hoax or was it someone posting comments on the case?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Some posts back a bit, someone remembered that GZ posted “Datniggytb” on his facebook page at 2/27/12 12noon.
          That’s when we noted that Serino had an entry in the dump, that used Trayvon Benjamin Martin at 3am 2/27/12.

          Of course, that couldn’t be true, because they wouldn’t even learn of TM’s identity until some time later that morning. If so, then how does GZ get to post “datniggytb” on his facebook page by noon? I mean did someone from the station call GZ and tell him TM’s full name?

          Obviously Serino, the same guy who’s telling witnesses what they saw, instead of recording what they say they did, is now back dating records, in such a way that would only be useful to cover for GZ’s blunder. A blunder that says he knew TM’s name before anyone else did.

          So that’s what caused the ruckus. Now we’re trying to lock down and document, if possible, that “datniggytb” actually went up on facebook at noon 2/27. Without it we haven’t a case.

          Just like Crump saying that DD told him that TM used a code to get in the front gate. Crump may be wrong about his recollection of that, but at least we know that he said it, what we don’t have is a record of DD saying it.

          The confusion around it is, the gates don’t lock until 7pm, but it seems DD places TM at the mailboxes at 6:54pm. If so, TM did not need a code to get in, so which one are we to believe? We’re hunting for answers.

          • Xena says:

            Now we’re trying to lock down and document, if possible, that “datniggytb” actually went up on facebook at noon 2/27

            I think the mistake is trying to apply “tb” to “Trayvon Benjamin.” IMO, it is text lingo or gang slang for “took a bullet.” The “y” is code for “young.” GZ was accrediting himself with causing a “kill”; i.e., “that young nig took a bullet.” He was making a record; bragging gang-style.

          • jm says:

            Xena says: “I think the mistake is trying to apply “tb” to “Trayvon Benjamin.” IMO, it is text lingo or gang slang for “took a bullet.” The “y” is code for “young.” GZ was accrediting himself with causing a “kill”; i.e., “that young nig took a bullet.” He was making a record; bragging gang-style.”

            I think your interpretation of tb is correct, makes more sense. Still can’t find anything about GZ having a Facebook account, but there was something about a MySpace account with the user name datniggytb that was taken down in 2012.

            http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

          • Xena says:

            I think your interpretation of tb is correct, makes more sense.

            There was a news source that traced the “Datniggytb” to GZ’s facebook page and IIRC, it was the same page where he also used “Joe G.”

            GZ’s MySpace page contains slang and boasting about his gang lifestyle in VA. That handle was intended to communicate to his MySpace gang member followers that he had taken the life of another rather than “hit up” his “boys” to it for him. Play today, Pay tomorrow — in agreement with his gang tattoo.

        • Xena says:

          Who is the alleged “no-limit-nigga” that the folks are all excited about?

          The Zidiots came up with the “no_limit_nigga” and alleged it was Trayvon’s account (either FB or Twitter). They came to that conclusion by searching for messages about “missing” that person. Problem for them is that those messages were posted in January 2012 before THE Trayvon Martin was killed by GZ.

      • Malisha says:

        It was Ayala’s report at 3 a.m. 2/27/2012 that gave the name Trayvon Benjamin Martin for the victim. That doesn’t mean that George didn’t already have his name because Smith or someone else in the police department might have known the name and given it to George before it officially came to light. We don’t know because there was so much lying going on. But what exactly did George allegedly SAY on FB at noon on 2/27/2012 about “datniggytb”? That’s part of a lot that I don’t understand at this point about the social media aspect.

        Of course, the social media aspect is not relevant to the actual killing. I just don’t know what was or is being said about it and I’m naturally curious.

    • @Shannon:

      That baby pic is precious! What is the baby’s name and how old? Such a sweet baby you have. I mean to ask you before?

  103. Mali