Zimmerman: Can the Prosecution Request the Trial be Changed to Another County?

Grey Winter Sky commented at 12:43 am:

“If a defendent feels that they cannot get a fair trial in the county/state that they live in, because the media has tainted the jury pool, and asks to have the trial moved elsewhere…..can the prosecution do the same thing? Since MOM seems to be conducting this trial in the court of public opinion, it would seen to be nearly impossible, as Prof. Leatherman pointed out, to find jurists that aren’t racist and very pro-George. Can the prosecution ask for the trial to be moved so that they will also have a fair trial?”

My Answer

That’s a very good question and I believe the answer is “No.”

A defendant has a Sixth Amendment right to be tried in the jurisdiction where the crime was allegedly committed.

The Sixth Amendment states:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

If the State files a motion for a change of venue and the defendant objects, which I think Zimmerman would do pursuant to O’Mara’s advice, I believe Judge Nelson would have to deny the motion because, if she granted it, she would have violated his Sixth Amendment right to have case tried in Seminole County with a Seminole County jury.

At 10:22 am, BettyKath also responded to Grey Winter Sky’s comment. She said,

“There were some NYC cops who were tried in Albany for killing an unarmed young man, Amadeu Dialo. (SoBs got off. They used a Black prosecutor who didn’t mention that the cops were all white undercover and the victim was a young Black immigrant. 41 shots were fired by these sharpshooters of which only 19 were used to kill the Amadeu.)”

My Answer

The four NYPD cops who shot and killed Diallo were defendants and the case was moved to Albany to protect their right to a fair trial, given the extensive adverse pretrial publicity against them in NYC. That is consistent with their Sixth Amendment right.

Zimmerman probably would be entitled to a change of venue, given the extensive pretrial publicity, but I don’t believe he is going to request it because he and his lawyers believe that publicity will actually help him, if he is tried in Seminole County.

Their opinion of Seminole County jurors must be disrespectful and low, isn’t it?

I think a possible solution, assuming Zimmerman is acquitted, may be a federal prosecution against him, and possibly others, for a federal hate-crime violation.

Think Rodney King, for example.

I’m going to do a little research on this and post an article in a few hours.

* * *

I’m back.

Welcome to the Practical-Impossibility Test.

What’s that, you ask?

Ask and you shall receive.

The Florida Court of Appeals addressed this issue in Sailor v. State, 733 So.2d 1057 (!999).

Sailor and three others were indicted in in Gadsden County for first degree murder and attempted first degree car jacking. The trial court severed their cases for trial.

Sailor was tried four times before he was finally convicted of manslaughter. The first three trials ended with hung juries. After the first two ended in mistrals, the prosecution asked the court to change venue (try the case in another county), but the trial court denied the motion. The prosecution then reduced the murder 1 charge to murder 2 so that it could prosecute Sailor with a 6-person jury, instead of a 12-person jury. But alas, the strategy did not work as the trial ended in yet another hung jury.

The Court of Appeals recounts what happened next:

After the third mistrial, the state again moved for a change of venue, alleging substantial media coverage of each mistrial (as well as of the co-defendants’ trials), and that a large portion of the population of Gadsden County had prejudged Mr. Sailor’s guilt or innocence.   Over defense objection, the trial court granted the state’s second motion for change of venue.

Mr. Sailor then petitioned this court for a writ of certiorari in an effort to prevent the transfer, and we concluded that

the trial court’s action in granting the state’s motion for change of venue without conducting an exhaustive effort to empanel a jury in Gadsden County was premature and constitutes a departure from the essential requirements of law.   See Beckwith v. State, 386 So.2d 836 (Fla. 1st DCA), review denied, 392 So.2d 1379 (Fla.1980).   Accordingly, the petition for writ of certiorari is granted, the trial court’s amended order transferring venue is quashed, and the matter is remanded to the Circuit Court in Gadsden County for further proceedings. Sailor v. State, No. 97-3798 (Fla. 1st DCA Oct. 17, 1997).

Not bad, but not good enough.

On remand, the trial court made its first effort after the third mistrial to empanel a jury, an effort that all but succeeded.

Starting with a jury pool of fifty-eight, the trial court ended up with five of the six jurors needed.   Before voir dire, the trial court excused fourteen potential jurors. The trial court excused an additional twenty-six jurors for cause after voir dire, leaving eighteen potential jurors on the venire.

The trial court allowed each side ten peremptory challenges.   Once the defense exercised four peremptory challenges and the state exercised nine peremptory challenges, only five jurors remained.   Mr. Sailor declined to accept a five-person jury, and the trial judge declared a mistrial, without ordering enforcement of any of the outstanding jury summonses  or making any other attempt to seat another juror.

(Emphasis supplied)

Note the italicized material, as it is significant.

Meanwhile, back in the jungle:

Of four attempts to seat juries in this case, three proved successful.   Before the first degree murder charge was dropped, fourteen jurors were reportedly selected for the first trial and thirteen jurors were reportedly selected for the second trial.   Like the pending retrial, the third trial only required a six-person jury, and the trial court could have seated five jurors this time.

This record does not establish that the court made an “exhaustive attempt” to seat a jury before declaring a mistrial or that additional effort would not have proven successful.   See Rhoden, 179 So.2d at 607 (reversing grant of a change of venue over defense objection where the trial court exhausted the venire in selecting five jurors).

Help, get me out of this freakin’ wilderness! What’s that rule, again?

Once upon a time a very long time ago, in  Ashley v. State, 72 Fla. 137, 72 So. 647, 648 (1916), the Florida Supreme Court held:

Where an application in a criminal prosecution for a change of venue from the county where the crime was committed is made by the prosecuting attorney, and the accused objects thereto, the matter should be tested in some way so as to make it to clearly appear that it is practically impossible to obtain an impartial jury to try the accused in that county.

And there you have it. Judge Nelson must deny a prosecution motion for a change of venue, unless it would be “practically impossible” to seat a fair and impartial jury in Seminole County. Assumptions or presumptions wold not suffice. She would have to try, try, and try again.

BTW, the trial court eventually seated a 6-person jury in the Sailor case and it found him guilty of manslaughter without a firearm and attempted armed car jacking. Sailor v. State, 816 So.2d 182 (Fla. 1st DCA 2004).

106 Responses to Zimmerman: Can the Prosecution Request the Trial be Changed to Another County?

  1. Xena says:

    Professor, previously you also wrote about bringing in a jury from another county. Now hearing O’Mara say that trial will take approximately 3 weeks, do you think that if he wants an out-of-Seminole County-jury, that Judge Nelson might not grant that request for the reasons you stated in that post?

    • The test is much easier for the defense and I believe she might be disposed to grant the defense motion, if they were to request it.

      Basically, a poll showing that just about everyone in Seminole County is familiar with the case and formed an opinion about Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence would probably be sufficient for her to grant the motion.

      However, I don’t think they want it and she can’t move the trial, if Zimmerman objects, unless it would be “practically impossible” to seat a jury.

      • Xena says:

        Professor, thanks for your answer. I remember Bernie saying that it might take longer than 3 wks to seat a jury. His motion for a gag order also conveys his concern that O’Mara’s public statements taint the jury pool. This is getting to be real interesting.

  2. Jun says:

    Okay so its a thumbs up but it depends… jury selection is going to be important… I personally feel it would be better off to have it in Jacksonville

  3. Lexie K. says:

    [Mod Note: Commenter banned. Comment Removed]

    • Jun says:

      1) That twitter has been debunked for a long time and looks nothing like Trayvon

      2) The videos they show are of other people assaulting a bus driver. How does that prove Trayvon the deceased did so, and how does that prove he attacked Zimmerman? Zimmerman has a much longer history of violence than Trayvon ever will.

      So in the end, as usual, they prove absolutely nothing…

      There’s also a lot of cases of people abducting people, following them in cars and on foot at night with a gun… How about that?

      • Xena says:

        @Jun. We forget — all Blacks look alike, right? You know, the more the Zidiots try, the more they confirm the State’s charge that GZ profiled Trayvon.

      • rachael says:

        You know Xena, you are 100% correct IMO that the more they say that (at the outhouse) because these other black kids did this, that meant that Trayvon could do this too because you know, not only do all black males look alike, they are all thugs.

        It does not do a thing to distance them from being the racists they claim they and GZ are not, and it makes them appear more racist than ever and for O’Mara to align himself with that kind of crap doesn’t really help the image of George either.

        Every time they post one of those videos, it shows their bias more and more. The disclaimer at the site that says:

        “If you wish to engage in vitriolic, racist, or bitter angry rhetoric, there are alternative sites on the internet more than welcoming to such considerations. But not here. Thank You.”

        Yet they are doing just that. Can they REALLY not see it? I mean I know that often the very people who say the loudest they are not and could not possibly be racists are the biggest of all, but do they have to go out of their way to prove it?

        There are some there that are just blatant.

      • Xena says:

        @rachael

        You know Xena, you are 100% correct IMO that the more they say that (at the outhouse) because these other black kids did this, that meant that Trayvon could do this too because you know, not only do all black males look alike, they are all thugs.

        Absolutely. Their representations actually support the charging affidavit that GZ profiled Trayvon. It’s ironic that the Zidiots think the thugification of Trayvon will give evidence that GZ’s profile was correct when factually, they provide reason to believe that GZ racially profiled Trayvon because they only apply the word “thug” to Black males.

        So, are the white guys in this video not thugs?

      • rachael says:

        @Xena:

        “It’s ironic that the Zidiots think the thugification of Trayvon will give evidence that GZ’s profile was correct when factually, they
        provide reason to believe that GZ racially profiled Trayvon…”

        I know he needs money, but for MOM to align himself with that just for money, makes him nothing more than a prostitute.

        • Xena says:

          @Rachael.

          I know he needs money, but for MOM to align himself with that just for money, makes him nothing more than a prostitute.

          Yes. It’s kinda hard figuring out which one is doing the pimping. The treeslum folks threatened to stop donating unless he does what they want. He does what they want and apparently, gets enough money to buy GZ a new sports jacket and conduct some depositions, wasting judicial resources in hopes of getting more donations to pay his fee.

      • Jun says:

        Personally, I feel both Don West & Omara are piss poor lawyers and are the definition of scumbag. In all honesty, in the past few months they have done nothing but spread innuendo with no evidence to back it up and all they have to go against the State is “maybe some school records, if its not fought by the school, and whatever parts are okayed by the judge for them to get” and “a bunch of photoshopped twitter or facebook posts” or “videos of MMA fighting of black guys that dont look anything like Trayvon” and in the end, none of the “evidence” here has anything to do with the night in question or proves an act occurred that Omara is claiming from Trayvon. He’s already an idiot for listening to those idiot supporters. George is probably better off just representing himself or getting a public defender.

    • Xena says:

      Speaking of interesting videos (reference LLMPapa), have y’all seen this one?? http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/17/trayvon-swung-on-a-bus-driver-impossible/#comments

      Since when does the treeslum produce videos?

    • rachael says:

      They have been doing that for weeks, maybe months – posting videos of groups of black kids who assault bus drivers saying that if they do it, then Trayvon could have too. SMH. How stupid.

      By the way LLMPapa, since Mark O’Mara asked for links, are you actually sending him your videos? I enjoy them so much, I believe he would too, and he did ask for them.

      ” I’d like to ask if you and other supporters could help us scour the web and, strange as it may sound, send us links to the most
      potentially questionable statements we have made during this process.”

      • Lexie K. says:

        [MODE NOTE: I am offended by your comment and took it down. It's racist and absurd. You also should not be attacking Xena personally. Do it again and you're gone.]

        • Xena says:

          @Lexie K.

          Well at least Racheal understands the point of the video (unlike wannabe-lawyer Xena).

          Hey!! Hi Jessica, Jenn, Jenna, Jenn222, lovemygirl, Alexandra, AlexP, AlexandraP and the other handles you use over at the treeslum and in comments to my blog. (Same IP address.) (Or did you forget that you sent a comment to my blog with the same accusation?) I wouldn’t let you post filth on my blog, so you put on a mask and came over here, uh?

          Welcome to where some REAL lawyers, paralegals, professionals, educated and intelligent people post. If you read the Professor’s words before you comment, maybe you will learn something and you too can aspire to be a lawyer.

          • He/she attempted to post as lovemygirl. but I caught all of the posts and deleted them.

            Good riddance!

          • Xena says:

            He/she attempted to post as lovemygirl. but I caught all of the posts and deleted them. Good riddance to a scumbag!

            It’s a she. Jessica is her real name. Her last name is Oriental but I don’t remember it now offhand. She also posts as Mongo and Mungo. Arkansasmimi generally follows Jessica, so she might try getting through soon.

      • Xena says:

        I was just reading Tim Wise. He wrote about Zimmerman supporters having preconceived notions of black aggression, that the facts in evidence no longer matter.

        I don’t agree with everything he says, but most of it is hits the proverbial nail on the head. Just some highlights and I’ll provide the link.

        “[Trayvon Martin] was not put on this Earth to be deciphered by you, dissected by you, problematized by you, labeled by you, slandered by you, or shot by one who had done all those things to his seventeen-year old black body before you even knew his name.
        He was a child. A child dearly loved by his parents and sibling.

        And the fact that he was black doesn’t complicate that. The fact that he wore a hoodie doesn’t complicate that. …. It is the rare boy who doesn’t tough-pose in a mirror, making muscles for some imaginary admirer, or perhaps just for himself. But it is the rare child who, having done so, finds himself suddenly the recipient of so much contempt for his cold, lifeless body — a body whose now inanimate state has been blamed for that condition because of his swagger, his clothing, his minor disciplinary problems in school, anything so as to shift attention from the real issue; namely, that Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman decided to confront him.”

        Tim Wise “hits it.” The thugification of Trayvon Martin is to shift attention from the real issue. It does appear that each time GZ takes the spotlight for whatever the reason, his supporters shift attention to Trayvon. By the time trial begins, they will have a conspiracy theory that Trayvon was born in Nigeria; Barack Obama is his real biological father; Michelle Obama paid George to kill him, and if O’Mara can only get Trayvon’s long form birth certificate, he can blackmail the First Lady to give him money and George will live happily ever after.

      • Jun says:

        Lexie K

        That twitter thing has been debunked a long time ago. Yes of course there are random acts of violence, Zimmerman clearly targeted this kid and killed him out the blue. How about all the cases of adults abducting kids at night time, by stalking them by car, and then chasing them down when they run away, with a loaded gun? John Wayne Gacy and numerous white males are serial killers… should we all look at every single white male as a serial killer now? Do you see how stupid and bias your way of predicting a person’s behavior is?

      • rachael says:

        I’m sorry – I would never attack Xena. What did I say? If I said something offensive, I’m really sorry – I love Xena and love her posts and she puts a lot of her heart and soul in them.

        Xena, if I said something offensive, I’m really really sorry. If there was some way I could get you my email so you could tell me what I said, I would because I would really like to know so I don’t do it again.

        I would never say anything to intentionally hurt you.

        • If you are responding to something Lexie K said, I just mod noted her.

          Am I missing something here?

        • Xena says:

          @Rachael. NO NO NO. It wasn’t you. It’s my cyberstalker, cyberharasser, envious Zidiot who here, is Lexie K. She couldn’t help but give herself away by posting the same words she has sent to my blog and posted elsewhere.

          Rachael, I love you too!! Rest assured that if anyone posts anything about me that I find offensive, I have no problem saying so.

      • Jun says:

        Its actually Lexie K that wrote some racist post about how if a person other than Trayvon has attacked a bus driver before, it means Trayvon acted in the same way, just cause they are black and he is too, then he/she attacked Xena. I have a feeling it is a mole from the Conservative Tinfoil Hat website.

        Its not u rachel

        • Xena says:

          Jun, you may or may not remember when I posted to the Professor about a cyberstalker, cyberbully issuing threats against the jbmission and the Professor to my blog.

          Lexie K and her other handles, started off by warning me if I didn’t cease posting to the jbmission that she would ruin my good reputation. Apparently, she lurked for months and when she discovered the Blackbutterfly7 blog, she found a way to communicate with me through comments. Jessica is in retaliation mode for JB supporting Casey Anthony. I did not follow that case, and since the jury has spoken, I’m not going back after-the-fact to study it and form an opinion.

          Jessica’s next move was to warn me that she had “30” followers on the treeslum that would help her make my life miserable. Then she attacked the Professor mockingly asking why I “love” someone who was disbarred. (You see, lies that are prove lies make no difference to her). Next, she attacked LLMPapa calling him a traitor. I guess he supported the prosecution of Anthony, while now taking a pro-Trayvon position.

          (It comes as no surprise that she would masquerade to enter here in response to the recent vids by LLMPapa. Some people cannot control their anger and vindictive nature.)

          Now, on the jbmission blog, we do share some personal things. I shared things about my career and the death of my husband.

          Jessica then sent comments to my blog mocking the death of my husband, and by her ignorance, not knowing the difference between my name (Xena) and the name of the blog “Blackbutterfly7″ she threatened to “out” me on dating sites mocking my husband’s death, asking if I was lonely. What she sent to me was posted by a “blackbutterfly7″ several years ago. The name of the blog comes from the name of the Yahoo Group blackbutterfly768. Someone already took the name “Blackbutterfly” in word press, so we opted to use the first number of the Yahoo Group.

          She didn’t stop there. Her next move was to “out” BigBoi on the treeslum, and send me what she posted there as a threat to attack me the same way.

          About 2 wks ago, she started sending me links to the treeslum. I don’t click them. Her IP address has been reported to proper authorities for cyberharassment, cyberstalking, and cyberbullying, and cyberthreats, and I no longer receive her comments — suppose they are re-directed to those investigating. IOWs, she can no longer attempt to bully me on my blog, so she is trying to do so here.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Xena, I posted a link to that article at the GZLC Facebook early on and it was quickly removed as being inflammatory and racist (!) by the GZLC moderator or legal team. : /

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides, at least you tried. MOM has changed his entire agenda now from defending GZ to offending Trayvon, his parents, and attorneys Crump and Jackson.

      • rachael says:

        Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. I thought it was someone named Lexi K. who was a moderator saying I was offensive.

        Sorry.

        Its been a long day. I need coffee or a nap or both.

      • rachael says:

        @Xena

        “Xena says:
        October 23, 2012 at 8:38 pm

        @Lexie K.

        Well at least Racheal understands the point of the video (unlike wannabe-lawyer Xena). ”

        Wow! Does that person have a comprehension problem or something? After I just got done writing a long post saying I did NOT understand the point of the video because it is totally INSANE to think that just because. . . oh well, never mind. He/She is gone now.

        That person has to be playing, no one could really be like that, could they?

      • Xena says:

        Wow! Does that person have a comprehension problem or something? After I just got done writing a long post saying I did NOT understand the point of the video because it is totally INSANE to think that just because. . . oh well, never mind. He/She is gone now.

        That’s the ATTEMPTED divide and conquer game she plays. You see, I was not suppose to read what you wrote, and immediately think that you were disagreeing with me although I had not posted anything for you to agree or disagree with. :-)

      • Jun says:

        Xena

        What I think is even more ridiculous is they are claiming its infringement of free speech, when its actually a crime known as cyber harassment. The bottom line is it is Freddy’s blog, and he can do with it as he sees fit.

      • Xena says:

        @Jun.

        What I think is even more ridiculous is they are claiming its infringement of free speech, when its actually a crime known as cyber harassment. The bottom line is it is Freddy’s blog, and he can do with it as he sees fit.

        Oh, that was another of one of her comments too — since I did not release her filth to be posted, she accused me of violating her rights to free speech.

        Yes, this is the Professor’s blog. I think of my own blog like my house and treat the blogs of others accordingly. If someone knocked on my door talking filth, I won’t let them in. If they present themselves decently and I let them in, and then they disrespect my house, I escort them out.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        @Xena I don’t know if you were ever on the HP threads but I couldn’t believe how many times the free speech argument came from the Team Z crowd because their stuff got pulled by the sane mods on duty. Apparently they didn’t pay attention in their high school gov’t classes. If you cross the line on a blog that isn’t your own you should expect to get smacked down if your views aren’t shared by the blog owner.

        A simple fact that continually escapes them.

        • Xena says:

          @Xena I don’t know if you were ever on the HP threads but I couldn’t believe how many times the free speech argument came from the Team Z crowd because their stuff got pulled by the sane mods on duty.

          I only registered to comment on the articles of one reporter. IMO, people responding 5 days later when the thread had gotten longer was too time consuming, and I never went back.

          The Zidiots’ free speech argument is a verbal abuser’s argument. They seek a public platform for their filth and verbal abuse by defiling the territory of others.

    • racerrodig says:

      Pretty sick when you still believe those pictures of a rapper from MA are Trayvon. That shows a low double digit IQ. Anyone who try’s selling that is probably late for the Klan meeting.

      • Jun says:

        The twitter they are using is a guy that looks like he is 25 or older and the facial structure and eyes are much different than the deceased but they persist, no matter how incorrect they are. It is no wonder they are this way, they are backed by guys like Larry Klayman, the king of the baseless accusations and frivolous lawsuits

  4. ed nelson says:

    My impression is that, if you got the “doe rye me”
    you can play these games,
    but for the rest of us …” you and me”, (for the sake of ryme…)

    you don’t have resources to get the trial changed in venue,
    but rather
    get tried by the “peers” in the local county seat.

    _______________________

    If you live in a county full of neanderthallers, then they are going to be the “peers”, and so you shouldn’t be surprised with whatever you get in your little trial by your… peers, so, choose wisely where you… will be born, or move to, or live under what ever duress in the balance, knowing the dangers of it!

    So Jethrow, if you live in a corner of the world where cretins predominate, know:

    But, if the Prosecution would be allowed to do that venue change thing, my word!

    The prosecution shouldn’t be granted much more power than what they got, they have the whole police powers at their right hand to begin with.

    _______________________

    Is anybody able to tell me how a foreign person can be charged with Treason, when that person isn’t a national of a country, nor in that thing is there much to say that the person was under any stricture to do or not do… anything with regard to reporting news, from some international location?

    ON the subject, somebody opined, that crimes can be committed across boundaries via things like internet. And that such a crime is committed in a “zone” different than where the perp is at the time. So the logic is: that the zone or country where the crime is committed has some kind of right to seek extradition of the perp.

    Well where does this lead?

    ________________________

    the use of drones used across national boundaries to kill, which is now out in the open, shows, a couple of things, one of which is to blur the respect for “boundaries”, next: to blur the boundaries… X’s 10…

    Blur the boundaries of all states, then new world order can proceed under corporate faux/ privatization of …. the same as the opposite, different dialectics.

    Sorry to be cryptic about it.

    _______________________

    As to prosecutors getting some way to move cases around over hill and dale shopping for judges and demographies to make their cases, Jessus, NO! Don’t throw gas on the barbecue!

  5. rachael says:

    Professor, I know that there are professional codes of conduct for attorneys and there must be a Florida bar code of conduct, though I haven’t looked at it and probably should before I ask this, but even if what O’Mara is doing is not illegal, is it possible that it is unethical? Ever since he started with the web sites begging for money I have wondered about this. It is most distasteful, even if it is not illegal.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      OM might not have thought to ask for donations had GZ not started his own site and received over 200k. OM clearly realized he could administer the account and not have to work pro bono. I wonder if he ever regrets that move, as it’s probably become a big pain in the azz and he’s roundly criticized for it.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        @Two sides, at least you tried. MOM has changed his entire agenda now from defending GZ to offending Trayvon, his parents, and attorneys Crump and Jackson.

        On that note, OM seems to have done a 180 from his original plan. He seemed to sincerly want to quiet down the racial aspects of the case when he took it on, and now seems to enable this. The moderator at the old GZLC used to stop any and all talk of race even if it was simply moderate discussion of historical inequities, and now, while supposedly only trying to legimately investigate TMs background, he comes off like a racist who portrays young black men as thugs – or at least he and West have stirred up the hornet’s nest at CTH who truly feel that way.

  6. Jun says:

    My personal opinion… the system of law in the US is attrocious. Yes it does work but this is such a cut and paste case. There’s no question of him having killed a kid. It definitely needs some reworking so that there are higher standards from the police all the way to the courthouse with both defense and prosecution practices. The kid is dead and his rights continually get infringed.

  7. Lexie K. says:

    [Mode Note: Buh, bye]

    • Jun says:

      https://twitter.com/NO_LIMIT_NIGGA

      Look, there are no tweets at all.

      • Xena says:

        The tweets that were gathered by the treeslum talked about missing “No_Limit_Nigga” in January 2012. THE TRAYVON MARTIN was not dead then.

        This is how their comprehension goes;
        Someone tweets about being “lean” and “hitting up” and ends it with “RIP, Trayvon.” They put hash marks for where they want the tweet to go. So the Zidiots follow the hash marks, finds one they think alludes to being that of Trayvon Martin, then starts the rumor that someone tweeted Trayvon about drugs and violence. “Lean” actually means being low on money, and “hitting up” can mean borrowing money, or flirting.

        The same is true for the MMA conspiracy. They took the statement of a witness, went to YouTube to find a homemade vid of MMA, and then said it was Trayvon Martin in the vid. When they were challenged that the guys don’t look like Trayvon, they then said that Trayvon was filming it. And get this … (not shouting, just emphasizing.)

        THE REASON O’MARA WANTS TRAYVON’S PARENTS’ ADDRESS BEFORE DEPOSING THEM, is because the treeslum folks now say that the video was done across the street from Sybrina’s house, so all O’Mara has to do is verify that with Sybrina’s neighbor for PROOF that Trayvon was involved in MMA.

        And the fool is crazy enough to want to do that rather than requiring THEM to present him with proof to back up their conspiracies.

        • The fools apparently have forgotten that W6 has recanted that part of his testimony and he was the only witness who claimed to have seen that sort of behavior.

          Pathetic.

          The only interesting question to me is why did W6 make that up?

          Did George Zimmerman ask him to do that?

          • Xena says:

            The fools apparently have forgotten that W6 has recanted that part of his testimony and he was the only witness who claimed to have seen that sort of behavior. Pathetic. The only interesting question to me is why did W6 make that up? Did George Zimmerman ask him to do that?

            The fools have a conspiracy theory that the New Black Panthers threatened W6.

            BTW, they also will not accept that Tracy explained how his answer to Serino’s question of if that was Trayvon screaming was misrepresented. The fools continue to insist that Tracy said it was not Trayvon screaming.

      • rachael says:

        OMG @ Xena. If that is true, I think THAT should be investigated and whoever did that should be charged with tampering with evidence. Or something of a conspiratorial nature. And O’Mara can’t see through that?

        OMGOMG!!! What is WRONG with these people!

      • Jun says:

        W6 has given 3 stories

        1) On the 911 call he claimed there was wrestling and then gun fire

        2) Then he claims he saw an MMA ground and pound and George screaming

        3) Then he recants the MMA nonsense and the George screaming, but then he claims the part is Trayvon just pinned George on the ground

        Forensics dont back up all 3 of these stories. He doesnt sound like a reliable witness IMO

        • Xena says:

          IIRC, in his recorded (last) statement to FDLE, W6 said that Trayvon was trying to hold GZ down by the shoulders, and GZ was trying to turn or roll onto his left side. Now, that frees his right hip right, and we know what he carried on his right hip.

      • Jun says:

        Come to think of it, at the same time, the witness may have been influenced to give the statement he gave (w6) in the beginning

      • Jun says:

        I did some research and I believe the NO LIMIT NIGGA that the Conservative Tinfoil Hat is purporting to be Trayvon Martin is actually a person from Carolina, because all his friends are from Carolina it seems.

        • Xena says:

          Yep Jun. I heard that previously also. That doesn’t stop the Zidiots, however. That is one reason I am comfortable with any discovery of Trayvon’s school records and social media — to shut up the Zidiots — at least they come up with their next conspiracy theory.

    • Hey, Lexie K.: Slither on back to your tree. You might want to consider getting an interlock device for your keyboard as well.

  8. Lexie K dropped his or her mask and revealed the ugly face of racist hatred.

    He/she is a sock puppet who likes to stir up trouble by assuming multiple identities and derailing conversations.

    Pity.

    • thejbmission says:

      http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-10-23/news/os-george-zimmerman-fights-gag-order-20121023_1_gag-order-mark-o-mara-florida-bar-rules

      Well this brings back memories of the Anthony case. When it comes to gag orders, the media outlets coming packing with powerful attorneys so why is O’Mara sweating this?
      Snipped:

      George Zimmerman’s defense team today asked supporters to point out the most objectionable things they’ve said and written so they can prepare for a gag order hearing Friday in Sanford.
      Meanwhile, a collection of local and national media organizations — including The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, USA Today and other outlets — filed paperwork stating there is “no basis” for the state’s gag order request.

      Why doesn’t O’Mara get it. It’s probably because of HIM reaching out to bloggers. Why is he playing stupid? What’s with O’Mara reaching out to bloggers?? Nobody wants to shut him up. They just want him to stop including BLOGGERS in his defense strategy in order to entice them to donate money to his client.
      Has he lost his mind? What does he plan to do with objectionable things they’ve said? Anyone??
      IIRC, last time a JUDGE reached out to a BLOGGER, it got him recused. Remember Stan Strickland and Marinade Dave?
      Please help me Professor cuz maybe I don’t get it. LOL I just find this sooo ridiculous.

      • Xena says:

        The following are 2 comments that was posted on the treeslum just after GZ’s Hannity interview:

        1. “Until I see strong evidence that MOM will vigorously defend George to the best of his ability, I will not be asking anyone to donate.”

        2. “Yeah, and I’m sure tomorrow O’Mara will take to the airwaves and talk about the nightmares the entire Zimmerman family has been thrown into. The SOB made public statements about the terrible loss for the Martin family, but has never yet, to this day, ever even attempted to address what his clients family has been put through. Has O’Mara ever addressed the New Black Panther bounty? …. The answer is NO. …What has he ever done to fight against that, other than to say the sentiments are high and we just have to wait for it all to calm down. … Please stop with the “big secret plan” that O’Mara is engineering. He isn’t doing bupkis for his client and he knows it.”

        So you see, O’Mara now has to tell the treeslum his plans in order to get donations.

      • Jun says:

        Do you have screen shots and the addresses of their profiles on there?

        Omara should do his job but taking advice from the Tinfoil Hat is a super bad idea.

        The funny thing is they are claiming that the whole Zimmerman KKKlan is in danger because of a bounty, yet they fail to state that, the bounty was for George. There is nothing there going at the family there, just George. They also asked for an arrest, I think.

        Omara did the right thing until he started taking the advice of the Tinfoil Hat people. He stated to wait for it to calm down. Omara also stated many times that allegedly there were death threats against the Zimmermans. Omara doesnt realize he is taking advice from people just as depraved as George is. He has changed since the bond fiasco and become a prostitute for money. He doesnt realize the tactics he is asked to do will backfire.

        Oh well… not my career…

        • You said,

          “O’Mara doesn’t realize he is taking advice from people just as depraved as George is. He has changed since the bond fiasco and become a prostitute for money. He doesn’t realize the tactics he is asked to do will backfire.”

          I do not agree. I think he knows what he is doing and that disturbs me.

      • Jun says:

        FReddy

        Couldnt this type of defense, if failed, be used to prove a depraved mind as well?

        It sounds like further disregard after death for Trayvon

  9. bettykath says:

    Professor, thanks so much for the complete response to the question of change of venue.

    • You be welcome. My pleasure.

      • I left a thank you on the last post (where I had asked the question) but I also wanted to thank you, and the rest of the group, because I appreciate everyone’s comments on this question. I’ve read so many hateful comments on other sites that I’m beginning to feel that there exists a great number of previously unnoticed racists, that are like rats coming “out of the woodwork”, exposing themselves for what they really are in order to feast on this tragic story. Which is why I wondered if there could really be a fair trial where Trayvon would finally receive the justice that he and his family deserves.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          They are in a small but vocal minority on the boards. Count up how many individuals there are. If you do a search for their IP’s you’ll probably see that many of them are the same individual with several identities. Then look at the number of rational boards there are, against the few where the racist hold sway. Be sure they’re a small minority. They make a big impact because they are so driven.
          They are sneaky, they are recruiting and they are everywhere, but their main major organizations are breaking up and broken.

          They’re slowly but surely being removed from LE and other positions of power, but the effort takes time because, the higher up you go in the system the more there is that gets affected by their disgorgement. So, we need to keep up the pressure until the last one of them is sweeping floors and cleaning toilets.

  10. Groans says:

    John Grisham on Colbert Report (Comedy Central). Off topic perhaps, but interesting.

    • Xena says:

      Isn’t he the author who wrote “Time to Kill” and a series of fiction books on litigation?

      • Groans says:

        Yes, he’s a lawyer turned author, and is marketing a new book. Said he would never go back to being a lawyer, because he was “starving as a lawyer.”

        • Xena says:

          Yes, he’s a lawyer turned author, and is marketing a new book. Said he would never go back to being a lawyer, because he was “starving as a lawyer.”

          Oh, I could say so much about starving lawyers. Just paying student loans can be devastating on young lawyers. Also in some areas, there are too many lawyers based on the population, which has become less able to afford legal counsel.

  11. Malisha says:

    I’m always amazed when I hear people say, “Zimmerman wasn’t profiling Trayvon; Blacks ARE more likely to be thugs!” They don’t even realize what they’re saying! Remember stupid Taaffe saying it was just a “perfect storm” because so many Blacks had committed crimes and George was “mad as hell and wasn’t going to take it any more”? In other words, George wasn’t RACIST because Blacks really WERE bad and DESERVED to be profiled.

    Then you get O’Mara. He doesn’t ask for money because what his client did was unavoidable and tragic and he needs a defense. He invites people to send money “If you would do what George did.”

    HE IS ASKING FOR MONEY FROM PEOPLE WHO WISHED THEY HAD BEEN ABLE TO KILL SOME UNARMED BLACK KID. They probably haven’t, but they admire George for doing it, and they wish they HAD or had the guts to do so NOW, so they send in their dues kind of like a vote: “Here, I vote for YOU doing what I wished I could do, Go George!”

    Imagine a licensed lawyer saying something like that on the web! Gag me with a spoon!

    • Xena says:

      “If you would do what George did.”

      Reminds me of the drunk who ran over and killed a little girl to avoid hitting a big oak tree. He saved himself but took the life of a child. So “if any of you driving drunk would do the same, send money.” You see, that is what O’Mara and the Zidiots leave out. George violated NW rules by following and carrying a gun BEFORE he fired that bullet.

      And so I repeat what I’ve shared previously many times; i.e., if not but for the fact that George Zimmerman got out of his truck to follow Trayvon Martin, the two would not have physically met.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yep, and since he was the only one out there walking, other than TM, his claim “I was going in the same direction…” After having been identified as following Trayvon, he somehow thinks that going in the same direction would not be interpreted as “continuing to follow”. That shows GZ’s deductive reasoning skills are way to dangerously deficient for him to ever be involved in law enforcement or even NW. Rather than appoint him NW captain, someone should have told him that he was to dangerous to fill that role, because of his poor deductive reasoning skills.

    • Jun says:

      I dont think Omara is ready, to be honest. He talks a big game, and that is it. He has been going on about how the state’s case is weak, and he only needed 6 months. Now the 6 month mark was hit, he continues to waive the speedy trial right, asking for continuances and even more things. If the state is so weak, why does he need school records to prove self defense? It does not prove anything that happened that night. Character evidence is the weakest type of evidence.

      Its funny how Omara wants to protest the gag and feel he in the right, but he cant even remember all the things he has said in the media and on his website. I wouldnt be surprised if Omara gets his facebook and twitter and other social media subpoenaed.

      I also feel Omara is losing it. Why would he ask such racist, bias, and prejudicial people for advice on what he said is objectionable? They dont find anything he says objectionable because he has been following their advice all along.

      IMO, he needs to put up or shut up.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Actually, from the Justice Department and other studies I’ve read, whites are more likely than blacks to commit crimes. It only appears that blacks are more criminal, because they’re arrested more often, make the news more often and are treated more harshly.

      In NYC for example “stop and frisk” laws have caused some 900,000 searches to be conducted, 80% of whom were blacks. That resulted in finding some 300 guns and quite a number of drug possession arrests. However, if they had stopped and searched 720k whites, and applied the same strict rules they had used for blacks, They’d probably have collected several truck loads of guns, and the drug arrests would have filled stadiums.

      I remember back in the 60’s mom was reading some management book that had a chapter on employee crime. The company noticed that it’s black employee’s were stealing merchandise, so they came up with the brilliant idea to replace them all with whites. The result was that the thefts more than doubled, so they quickly re-hired the blacks.

      It makes sense that people who are treated with privilege will, if they are so inclined, make use of those privileges. So, if the police rarely arrest whites for possession of drugs, because they only rarely search them, then it makes sense for whites to carry the drugs. After all, the group doesn’t want to lose their drugs by trusting them to the care of someone the police are almost certain to search. Thus whites will be carrying all of the white owned drugs and some of the black owned drugs as well. :lol:

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Lonnie I can’t remember what crime documentary it was, might have been Gangland, but one of the groups covered was a White Power/KKK/Neo-Nazi group and they talked about how the would regularly go across the border to get drugs, but would pose as your typical drunk frat boy/whit boy coming back from partying to get back through to the state pretty much unchecked. They gloated about being able to bring back thousands of dollars worth of pills and other drugs with each trip.

      • Xena says:

        Actually, from the Justice Department and other studies I’ve read, whites are more likely than blacks to commit crimes. It only appears that blacks are more criminal, because they’re arrested more often, make the news more often and are treated more harshly.

        Lonnie, I hate criminal statistics, and you have given one reason. The other is, there can be 100 Black men in prison for murdering 1 person each, or 100 murders. Yet, there can be 10 Whites in prison for murdering numerous people accumulating to the same number of victims. The same is true for robbery. A black person is arrested for committing one robbery, while some whites commit numerous robberies before capture.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Well, it certainly shows how MOM is thinking, could that be why he was given this assignment?

  12. Malisha says:

    Yeah, and another thing: O’Mara doesn’t say, “If you believe George Zimmerman and you believe it was self-defense, send money,” he says, “If you would have done what he did.”

    Why would anybody believe George if they never met him? “If you would have done what he did…”?

    So, would that include:

    If you would have thought Trayvon was suspicious because he was walking in the rain.

    If you would have thought Trayvon was “up to no good” because he was “just lookin’ about.”

    If you would have thought “somethin’ was wrong with him” because he wasn’t an athlete training hard in the rainfall. (Why should anybody walking along have to be an athlete, may I ask?)

    If you would have said, “These assholes, they always get away.”

    If you would have said, “Fucking punks.”

    If you would have gotten out of your vehicle to give chase.

    If you would have continued your pursuit after the dispatcher told you, “We don’t need you to do that, OK?”

    If you would have answered, “No, man, I don’t have a problem” rather than saying, with your hands in the air to show that you weren’t threatening, “No, man, I don’t have any problem with you, just wanted to check on you because I’m with the Neighborhood Watch Group here and we check out folks we don’t recognize…are you new to this area?”

    If you would have failed to take the reasonable step right then if you felt Trayvon was threatening to YOU, that is, stepped BACK three feet or so and drawn your gun, saying: I’m armed, don’t move, the police are on their way.”

    If you would have made every single stupid move (or every single aggressive, threatening, thuggish move, if he was doing all this on purpose and not just stupidly) that George would have made that night, resulting in his killing an unarmed teen-ager, and:

    IF YOU WOULD HAVE GONE ON HANNITY AND SAID THAT YOU DID NOT REGRET A SINGLE THING YOU DID THAT NIGHT,

    Then, by all means, send money. Because if George gets convicted, you will have to live in a world where you realize, to your dismay, that YOU TOO are subject to law and order in this country, that NEITHER GEORGE NOR YOU are not free EITHER to go kill some kid you don’t like and get away with it. So send lots of money. Protect yourself from having that terrible feeling that you’re not FREE to KILL and LIE and DISRESPECT and GET AWAY WITH IT.

  13. Xena says:

    Re: Trayvon, MMA, and the fake video

    “Trayvon’s brother, Jahvaris Fulton-Martin, says the boy in the video isn’t his brother refereeing the fights. In the visual, you see a young man in a white ball cap with a striped shirt egging on the two fighters as a voice in the video references Trayvon.”

    Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-martin-fighting-video-not-him-says-brother-jahvaris-fulton-martin#ixzz2AChDqLsc

    • rayvenwolf says:

      If I am remembering correctly the kid who actually posted the vid took them down once he realized people were linking them to Trayvon. that said these nuts will hold on to the measliest of crumbs because they have nothing else. Georgie boy is a lame horse to be betting on, on just his word alone and even the know that.

      I think that is what pisses me off the most about them. They KNOW he is full of it, but thy don’t care. They’d rather see him as a free man than see justice done and admit they are bigots as the day is long.

      • Xena says:

        If I am remembering correctly the kid who actually posted the vid took them down once he realized people were linking them to Trayvon. that said these nuts will hold on to the measliest of crumbs because they have nothing else.

        Rayvenwolf, think about this. What if we obtained a video showing a theft, physical violence, drunken behavior, etc., and said it looks like George Zimmerman? You see, the Zidiots’ conspiracy theories are based on “it could be,” “it looks like,” much like GZ’s statements about he “felt” Trayvon was going for his gun.

      • Xena, even if you could stage such a video, who on earth could you get to play the part of George? Who would want to admit that they were a Georgie-Porgie look-alike?

  14. Dennis says:

    Frederick, I believe you can be tried for the same crime twice by the State and Feds under the Duel Sovereignty Doctrine without violating Double Jeopardy. If he is acquitted the feds can try him for a federal hate crime and homicide.

    • Jun says:

      http://audioboo.fm/boos/717361-911-call-why-would-this-man-just-shoot-him

      I dont think he is going to get acquitted. I honestly believe, once a proper jury is seated, they are going to want to ring George’s neck.

    • Yes, you are right for two reasons.

      You mentioned the different sovereigns reason, but there is another reason too. The elements of the offenses are different, such that an acquittal on the murder charge would not prevent a conviction of the hate crime, even if both charges were based on statutes in the same jurisdiction.

      FYI: As usual with legal rules, there is an exception. The exception requires the prosecution to, in effect, pin the tail on the donkey by selecting the most appropriate charge or charges. Failure to charge other charges that could have been filed, based on the same alleged misconduct, is usually fatal to recharging the person acquitted with a new charge or charges that could have been filed, but were not filed.

  15. Malisha says:

    Here’s the thing about free speech: IT IS FREE but you can’t choose your audience. You’re not allowed to burst into a TV Studio and interrupt the program to say what YOU WANT because of “free speech” — the forum is not yours; it belongs to the studio. You’re not allowed to run into a theater, jump on the stage, push the regular actors off and announce to the audience, “LISTEN TO ME BECAUSE I HAVE FREE SPEECH.” You’re not allowed to jump into someone’s blog and choose what he or she will allow to become a communication on THAT network. Free speech doesn’t mean that you can force a phone company to let you speak to someone in Paris; it doesn’t mean you can get an audience with the Pope.

    Some time in the early 90s I was walking in Washington DC and saw about two dozen black paint swastikas on mailboxes, newspaper stand boxes, and walls. They had bee painted on overnight. There was a great scandal and then the next day some idiot who is now no doubt a high-paid lawyer in a big firm but who was then a law student at GWU wrote an article for the law school newsletter saying that the Nazi sign-painter was exercising free speech! Idiot! I wrote a letter to the editor saying the spray-painter could only exercise his free speech on his own damn letter boxes and newspaper boxes but they wouldn’t print my letter.

    It’s not that hard to understand. Folks like that law student and the Zimbots have it all mixed up in their little brains, though.

    • Jun says:

      its actually infringing on the person’s media device of their free speech. Say I own a station, and I dont want any hate messages… for them to force me to broadcast such nonsense is infringing on what I want to broadcast

  16. grahase says:

    I know I sometimes have a bit of a nasty streak in me. After hearing Robert Zimmerman Jr. (again in the news) and the comments made by Sundance something-or-other, I am saddened that there are people like this in this day and age. Being one of the richest, most-progressive countries in the world, some in the United States continue to live in the dark ages.

    Anyway, I discovered that GZ collecting the so-called donations has to pay a fee to PayPal for each transaction. The fee is 2.2% plus $00.30. Knowing this, I was pleased to donate $00.01 quite a number of times. Now, I am feeling much better thank you.

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