I decided to write this article to respond to questions raised by many of you regarding plea bargaining in criminal cases. This is an important subject to cover because approximately 80% of all felony cases are resolved by guilty pleas that resulted from plea bargaining. If every defendant charged with a felony in this country demanded a jury trial, our courts would not be able to process their cases fast enough to keep up with the flow of new cases.
This would produce an epic disaster because trial dates would have to be scheduled so far off in the future that many defendants unable to qualify for pretrial release would serve a substantial amount of their sentences, if not the entire amount, before their trial. The right to a speedy trial would cease to have any meaning and the right to a trial would be so drastically compromised by the inevitable pretrial delay that an exoneration by a jury would have little practical effect. Innocent defendants would suffer incalculable damage to their lives. They eventually would realize that they would likely serve less time if they plead guilty instead of insisting on their right to a jury trial. This practical solution to getting out of jail would effectively eliminate their right to a jury trial, a drastic consequence that no reasonable person would tolerate.
Plea bargaining avoids this doomsday scenario by enabling the courts to process cases in a timely fashion. The reality we have to acknowledge is, whether we like it or hate it, we are stuck with it.
With that background, let us now consider how a plea bargain might resolve Zimmerman’s case.
Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. He entered a plea of not guilty and claims self-defense.
As the matter now stands, the case will proceed to an immunity hearing and then to a jury trial, assuming the judge denies Zimmerman’s motion for immunity from civil and criminal liability.
If the jury finds him guilty, the Court must sentence him to at least 25 years in prison. The maximum sentence authorized by law is life in prison.
Whether or not he committed the crime, Zimmerman has a constitutional right to plead not guilty and force the prosecution to prove its case.
The only way Zimmerman can change that process is to drop his claim of self-defense and plead guilty as charged. Fortunately for him, he is not under any pressure to plead guilty as might be the case if he were in custody.
Therefore, unless he decides that he cannot win, he has no reason to give up his right to a jury trial. He apparently believes that he cannot lose. I disagree.
In order to make a well informed, intelligent and reasonable decision regarding whether he should go to trial, he should consider whether the risk of conviction and the attendant consequence of serving at least a 25-year prison sentence, is worth taking. One of the most important duties and responsibilities that a lawyer has to his client is to objectively assess that risk and fully inform him about his conclusion and the basis for it.
In my professional opinion, every lawyer should do this for every client, regardless if the client claims innocence, because the lawyer always should allow for the possibility that the client may not have truthful. Although I would never recommend that an innocent client should plead guilty, I believe even the innocent client has a right to know about his chances of winning. For example, I regret to say that I am reasonably certain that some of my innocent clients decided to plead guilty because they had no faith in the ability of the criminal justice system to produce the proper result. For example, I cannot disagree with a Black defendant who, despite claiming innocence, decides to plead guilty to a drug offense to obtain the substantial benefit of a less severe sentence than he would receive after an all white jury rejected his claim that a Caucasian police planted drugs on him. Yes, a criminal defense lawyer deals with racism and ethical ambiguity every day. We do the best we can to assist our clients to navigate through troubled waters and one way to do that is to provide every client with the most accurate and reliable information available.
The prosecution can give Zimmerman a reason to consider pleading guilty by offering to reduce the charge (i.e., charge bargaining) or offering to recommend the lowest possible sentence (i.e., sentence bargaining), if he agrees to plead guilty. The prosecution usually initiates discussions about a possible plea agreement because it is already well informed on the strengths and weaknesses of its case when it charges the defendant with a crime. Defense counsel has to get up to speed before he can knowledgeably and intelligently assess the prosecution’s case.
An offer implicitly invites a counter offer, despite a take-it-or-leave-it warning. Defense counsel always should resist pressure to accept an offer by a specific deadline, if that deadline does not permit sufficient time to get up to speed on the case. No criminal defense lawyer can provide effective assistance of counsel to his client if he engages in plea negotiations with a prosecutor before he is up to speed on the case. Effective assistance of counsel is the minimum requirement expected of a criminal defense lawyer to satisfy the Sixth Amendment right-to-counsel requirement.
An agreement between the parties to dispose of the case pursuant to a plea bargain always will be contingent on the judge’s review and approval. For example, the public has a legitimate interest and expectation that plea bargains will be based on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the prosecution and defense cases. Therefore, the prosecution has to have a legitimate reason to plea bargain. Personal inconvenience trying the case is not a legitimate reason.
A problem proving the case is the most common reason offered by prosecutors to support a plea bargain. Judges consider proof problems to be a legitimate basis for a plea bargain and they will accept the agreement reached by the parties, unless the proposed disposition offends their sense of fairness and the due administration of justice.
Provided the judge is willing to accept the plea bargain and proposed disposition, the parties may discuss and reach an agreement at any time while the case is pending until the jury verdict is announced in open court. Judges do not encourage last minute resolutions of the case during the trial because of the time, effort and cost expended to try the case, but they will generally accept the agreements. Judges want to encourage plea bargaining because it is the primary means by which cases can be processed in compliance with the constitutional requirement for a speedy trial. For this reason, you will rarely see a judge refuse to support the terms of a plea agreement.
One of the biggest stumbling blocks to resolving a case by a plea bargain is a defendant’s unwillingness to admit guilt. Judges cannot accept a guilty plea unless the defendant provides a factual basis that, if assumed to be true, will establish each element of the crime or crimes to which he is pleading guilty pursuant to the agreement.
The so-called Alford plea that some of you have mentioned is a judicially created remedy to facilitate guilty pleas by eliminating the stumbling block that required a defendant to admit embarrassing and humiliating facts on the record in open court to provide a sufficient factual basis to support the plea.
The SCOTUS created the remedy in Alford v. North Carolina by declaring a new rule that permits a defendant to satisfy the factual-basis requirement by conceding that the prosecution can prove its case and stipulating or agreeing that the judge may consider as proven facts information that is contained in supplementary police-investigation reports attached to the written guilty plea. This concession supplies the necessary factual basis to support the guilty plea without requiring the defendant to actually speak the words that he so desperately wants to avoid admitting in public. Note that the Alford plea permits a defendant sufficient wiggle room to later claim that he did not actually do what the police claimed he that he did.
There are two major problems with Alford pleas. First, an Alford plea is still a guilty plea and a defendant who chooses that option is not considered any less guilty for selecting it. Second, a person who chooses that option may actually end up worse off because mental health professionals and alcohol and drug counselors consider them to be evidence of an unwillingness to accept responsibility for the crime they committed. For this reason, I always advised my clients not to do an Alford plea if they were seeking mental health treatment or to be accepted into an alcohol or drug treatment program as a condition of probation. I told them they might as well get started on admitting what they did because they were going to have to do that to get into and complete a program. The official reason would be “not amenable to treatment because the defendant denies that he has a problem.”
The remedy provided by the Alford plea mitigates to a limited extent the difficulty and shame experienced by an innocent client who pleads guilty, but it does not change the outcome. The criminal justice system will regard it the same way it regards any guilty plea.
Mark O’Mara should know enough about the case by now to knowledgeably and intelligently evaluate its strengths and weaknesses and estimate the likelihood of success. I say “should” because he has had adequate time and opportunity to review the discovery materials.
He needs to do more than that, however. No lawyer should ever assume that the police-investigation reports accurately and reliably report what happened. For example, police often omit information that would be helpful to the defense and the information they include usually reflects an intent to build a case against the client. Objective is not the first word that comes to mind to describe them.
I hope O’Mara has employed an investigator to work on the case. Unless he knows a lot about forensics, he also should have employed a forensic consultant to review the reports and benchnotes, tell him what they mean, and tell him what he should do. He definitely should not assume that the findings and conclusions of the various analysts are accurate and reliable, if he has little knowledge or understanding of forensic science.
I have previously described Zimmerman as someone who likely is a difficult client determined to control the defense. I do not doubt that he lacks the necessary knowledge and experience to accurately and reliably evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of his case and estimate his chances of success. That is O’Mara’s responsibility and Zimmerman should at least listen carefully to what he says and reconsider his own opinions when they differ from O’Mara’s. If he lacks confidence in O’Mara, he should hire another lawyer.
I can think of 28 good reasons for Zimmerman to rely on a lawyer’s advice instead of his own. The first three reasons are he lacks the necessary knowledge, experience and objectivity to accurately and reliably evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of his case. The remaining 25 reasons are represented the 25 year mandatory minimum sentence that he faces, if he is mistaken.
From my distant perspective here in Kentucky reviewing and evaluating the discovery in light of my knowledge and experience, I believe Zimmerman is unlikely to persuade Judge Nelson to grant him immunity and I further believe there is a substantial likelihood that a jury will reject his claim of self-defense and convict him of murder in the second degree.
I suspect Zimmerman may need a wake-up call from reality and the immunity hearing may serve that purpose. Therefore, I am not expecting that either side will be interested in discussing a plea bargain until after that hearing.
Finally, I believe the prosecution has a very strong case that only gets stronger as time passes. Accordingly, it has little to no incentive to offer a benefit to Zimmerman in order to induce him to plead guilty.
With prosecution incentive to plea bargain decreasing with the passage of time as defense intransigence and unwillingness to consider it intensifies, I currently see little chance for a resolution of the case by plea bargain.
Reblogged this on changsterdj and commented:
Sumthin to ponder
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That appears to be what happened in the Alexander case. No one was injured in that case, and the State, IIRC, offered her 3 yrs. She declined the plea and went to trial, was convicted, and sentenced to the statutory 20 yrs.
Alexander must have had an idiot for a lawyer, or a difficult client. Her lawyer should have told her she would most likely be convicted and be sentenced to the mandatory 20 years under the 10-20-life law. I feel bad for her, but she did something very stupid and should have taken the deal that was offered. I am clueless as to how she or her lawyer thought they would win that case.
Professor, if all that was at stake here for the prosecution was gaining a conviction, I would agree with you 100%. I believe, however, that (to quote W.H. Auden, the poet) “the desires of the heart are as crooked as corkscrews” and that the prosecutor has three (or more) motives at this point, not the simple one most prosecutors seek. IMHO, the motives are:
1 – To convict or otherwise imprison (by plea) Zimmerman for a while, not necessarily a long time;
2 – To prevent the SPD and Wolfinger (et al.) from being exposed and therefore damaged by the facts coming out about their cover-up and even their complicity with George’s very predictable and easily preventable depraved behavior; and
3 – To cut a path that doesn’t look absolutely complicit itself, to the point where letting George walk by “throwing the case” or agreeing to a ridiculously minor plea bargain would result in a race uprising or something untoward. In this regard, the prosecutor has to walk a tightrope between the DOJ and the defense.
So I believe a plea deal could be arranged if only public opinion would quiet down about the killing. That’s where I think O’Mara is heading, have thought it since the first volley over disclosing the evidence, when both prosecution AND defense were on the same side contrary to Florida law, saying, “Please do not reveal the real evidence in this case.”
They sacrificed Bill Lee. Whom else do they have to sacrifice before this can go away, that’s the question. Corey is a smart cookie; let her figure it out.
Malisha, wouldn’t your points be true only if the prosecution has a weak case?
Also, is it possible that a plea bargain was offered but refused? Could this be kept quiet in a high-profile case?
My points have nothing to do with the strength of the case, Two Sides, because they have to do with things other than the case and other than the defendant. They have to do with preserving the police department and the prosecutor’s office, both of which were obviously in on a “sham investigation” until the public became outraged and made it clear there was gonna be a rumble. The fact that the prosecution has a very VERY strong case that gets stronger day by day only means that there are going to be more and more confusing things happening that “seem to mean things” to people who can’t think logically. O’Mara just has to get the public to the point where they are saying, “Oh the prosecutor couldn’t risk going to trial and losing so it’s best they just allowed this to happen.”
Half of what happens in the public world is a sham. This case is theater more than many, because it is already public, and the more tickets that are bought, the better O’Mara likes it.
IF people make it clear that they will not accept a faked-up fraudulent finish to this production, we might have a chance of finding out what happened. I don’t know how to handicap that race, though. Not enough data.
Okay, now I see what you mean!
I feel the case is strong against Zimmerman, so I really do not want to see him accept any sort of plea bargain. If he ever gets out of prison he is going to be a jobless murdering senior citizen of no use to society. I think it is a joke that they give murdering scum free dental care, health care, and television in prison. That is the main reason I support the death penalty.
I highly doubt MOM wants this to quiet down in the media with his new leak about suing NBC.
well if I can do anything about it public opinion will not quiet down.
I’ll help ya out my man….No problem !!
The longer it takes the bigger it gets!
That’s pretty much what Dr. Phil said when he scheduled the Osterman’s and Trayvon’s family on his program. The issue for him is keeping America’s children safe.
The plea deal course was set, to continue, through the immunity hearing, at least, by the time SPD blew off Mary Cutcher and a blood test, for openly tweaking GZ, who apparently has admitted Cutcher’s account of GZ’s sitting on the wounded TM is correct.
When GZ admitted to a paramedic he was on Temazepam, and he didn’t suffer a blood test, which would let us know if he was tweaking on Adderall or jonesing, for something else, we could see the capias, for manslaughter wasn’t in good faith. When it was rejected, by Seminole Co. DA, we could see bad faith, throughout the process.
When Angela Corey filed an indictment, for murder 2, she didn’t go with the prevailing thought, among some of us, which is that GZ had committed an assault, and by arranging TM face-down and sitting on TM’s back, GZ was expressing murder ONE intent.
We won’t see a plea deal, when anybody who knows the system is certain over-charging or correct charging is needed, to coerce a plea deal. What we have in Florida is a load of pubs, pushing their luck, since Republicrats make them want to do that, in an election year.
So Corey’s office might not have charged based on evidence?
????
Huh?
Could you post in non-conspiracy language?
We have someone killed, and how, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Zimmerman fails his SYG claim and its 25 to life, whether its second degree or manslaughter since a gun was a used and some aggravating circumstances since the victim was a minor
So wth are you talking about?
Bob, if you see this,could you explain what you meant by your first paragraph, and the second, and the third– and the fourth? Tweaking? Jonesing? Pubs? I feel old now. And a bit dense.
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I don’t know if any of you are aware, but George Zimmerman is suing NBC over editing his 911 calls http://bossip.com/657563/lawsuits-george-zimmerman-is-suing-nbc-for-edited-911-tape-that-him-appear-racist-43081/ … do you think this is an attempt to clean up his reputation as a (possible) racist or another attempt to get money in the defense account?
This is odd timing to me and I think his focus should be on this trial and the 25 years he is facing and not on this. Also, who filed this for him? Omara? Just goes to show what the professor said about him being a difficult client and wanting to run the show is very true.
I think this is motivated by wanting more money in the defense fund. My take is that they are hoping NBC will offer up a big settlement to “make this go away”. When they fired the employees responsible for the edit, in essence they admitted wrong doing. At least I think that is the case. I would guess their insurance company is taking a look and will decide for NBC. Professor?
I agree… the firing of the two people was an admission of guilt/wrongdoing. So honestly, despite some maybe not agreeing with the lawsuit or timing, Zimmerman does have a legitimate case against NBC.
I think if NBC settles, they have a large problem. I hope they fight it. Not sure if it was a mistake and they were just trying to fit the news into a soundbite but I doubt very much this was meant to portray GZ as a racist, even though I believe his profiling Trayvon was racist.
The rules of evidence do not permit a plaintiff to introduce evidence of subsequent remedial efforts by a defendant to correct a situation. The rationale for this rule is to encourage remedial efforts by not permitting the injured party to construe them as an admission of wrongdoing.
The rule usually applies to efforts to repair a physical condition that caused the injury. I do not know if it would apply to firing the two employees.
I think Zimmerman is going to have a tough time proving damages. Therefore, I believe his claim is worthless and he is just blowing smoke.
The firing is not an admission of guilt. The simple fact that Omara is claiming the edit created some danger for his client and that it created a false impression is frivolous. It would also make the company look bad for bending over to a killer of an unarmed teenager in the public, which would lead to losing business and appeal in the future. The simple fact remains is that the statements Zimmerman made were not altered in any way and his meanings to the statement have not been altered by the editing. The simple fact is that Zimmerman made disparaging remarks of the dead teen that he killed, identified him as a black person, and was heard stalking the victim as well as yelling something that sounds like a racial slur. I could be wrong but it sounds like an easy win for NBC and I dont see the legitimacy for them to settle out of court.
The firing of the employees could be for a variety of reasons and does not necessarily ring of guilt of the editing of the tape.
“The firing of the employees could be for a variety of reasons and does not necessarily ring of guilt of the editing of the tape.”
Exactly. The firing of employees may just mean they did a poor editing job not up to standard.
My husband owns a construction business, and has been sued many times. one law suit I recall was filed when a woman who was drunk at the time, drove her car off the highway at night, traveled hundred of feet, and ran into the back of a dump truck parked on the job site. His employees found her the following morning. She filed a lawsuit against them for her injuries…she became a quadrapoligic as a result of her injuries, Although the company was in no way at fault, and she was cited for DUI, the insurance company settled the claim for several hundred thousand dollars. they have been sued by people who ran a flag person’s stop sign and were hit by a piece of equipment. insurance company settled. they have been sued by someone injured while entering at a job site at night. insurance company settled. Their insurance company even paid to replace a car that drove around barricades and drove their car into newly poured concrete.
I agree, the news story did not cause GZ harm. My point is, the decision to settle is not always up to the company.
JM and all
I think some people are falling to the smoke screen of Omara and Zimmerman…
Look at the bigger picture…
If NBC settles, they are stating that they will alter and create false impressions of people when they actually haven’t. They lose appeal as a legit news station. That equates future loss.
If NBC fights or gets it thrown out on summary judgement, they look authentic and hold face and value for the future. Besides that, they have a winning case against Omara and Zimmerman.
The tape that was edited simply stated that Zimmerman stated Trayvon was up to no good, on drugs, suspicious, an asshole who always gets away, and a effin punk/coon, and Zimmerman identified his victim as a black teenager. It has already been reported that Zimmerman killed the kid and is fact plus on the phone call he was heard stalking the boy and admitting to it. With or without the editing, the impression Zimmerman left with his acts remain exactly the same. They are a news station and they are in the business of informing the public, especially of people who killed another person as it is important. On top, Zimmerman did make those statements out of his own free will.
Jun, your many thoughts on the possible NBC lawsuit seem most logical to me, GZ’s statements, though taken out of context with a bad edit, are still implied in many ways in the unedited tape. There is a difference, but perhaps not enough to justify a win. Especially not if the case goes to trial and he’s convicted. I would think a lawsuit against NBC would be very convincing unless he’s exonerated in a self-defense hearing or pronounced innnocent by a jury. But IANAL, and could be wrong
If NBC settles, it won’t be any time soon. They would look like the worst wusses in history if they didn’t even try to fight. Furthermore, everybody in the world would then sue them.
@Marshalette Wise.
No, he doesn’t. There are numerous comments on the previous post about this matter. GZ has no damages and thus, no cause of action. He abandoned his job and his home and went into hiding as soon as he left the police station in the wee hours of the morning on 2/27. NBC did not air that edited tape until late March.
Zimmerman would also have to take the stand and talk about exactly how it damages him. With all the evidence released on Zimmerman, he would get impeached on his credibility and his claim would become frivolous too.
When I heard the NBC clip I thought GZ was using “he looks Black” as an excuse for TM being a “suspicious” person. It sounded racist. When I later heard the NEN tape, I realized that was not the case, that GZ was responding to a dispatcher question. It DID make a difference to me. It does mean that what NBC presented was taken out of context and thus changed the meaning.
As the professor pointed out in a previous thread, use of the NBC edit in court by the prosecution would probably result in the defense objecting and the judge agreeing that the question by the dispatcher be put into evidence.
This doesn’t mean that I think that GZ isn’t a racist, there are other things to be considered. But that bit by NBC was an unfortuneate edit that took GZ’s comments out of context.
Which also means that he will have to prove that he’s not racist. The problem is that Zimmerman, like most racial bigots, do not realize that they are racial bigots.
In his NEN call, GZ included Trayvon in a group of “these assholes” and “punks.” Who were members of that group? Well, GZ and his supporters will say those who he called the police on as suspected burglars. But it just so happens that GZ said of one in his NEN call that the man was going through the garbage every garbage day (he had been watching for weeks, I suppose), although he started that call off by saying there had been break-ins in the neighborhood.
It’s kinda like former Alabama Gov. George Wallace saying he has nothing against Blacks as long as they remain segregated and not expect the same rights given to Whites.
@Xena
It’s kinda like former Alabama Gov. George Wallace saying he has nothing against Blacks as long as they remain segregated and not expect the same rights given to Whites.
Bring it!
Disagree
They never altered or took anything Z said out of context. Zimmerman clearly made disparaging remarks and then described the person as black and then is heard what sounds like a racial slur while stalking the victim in this case. With or without the edit, the context of Zimmerman’s statements remain the same.
There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, first, the person must prove that the statement was false. Second, the person must prove that the statement caused harm. Third, the person must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. For a celebrity or a public official, the person must prove the first three steps and that the statement was made with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth. Usually specifically referred to as “proving malice”
1) The statement or impression with the edit was neither false or created a false impression.
2) The statement was true and did not cause any undue harm, that was not already there, since the statement he made was already true and Zimmerman’s own statements and are not out of context. Zimmerman did indeed make disparaging remarks of the person he is heard stalking and killed and described as black. With or without the edit, facts remain the same. NBC is a news conglomerate and its their job to broadcast the news and this is a important social concern.
3) The statement is completely truthful. With or without the edit, Zimmerman did indeed make disparaging remarks of the person he was heard stalking and killed and described him as black.
*wouldn’t be convincing* I meant to write.
Thanks Two Sides. I am not a lawyer, judge or anything in the court system but from my understanding it does not sound like a W for Zman. I would concede if they altered Z’s statements, but that was not the case. They edited the tape. CNN and other stations also did that to Obama and Romney debating by showing soundbites of the debate.
Dont forget, GZ did not identify Trayvon as black until the despatcher asked – white, black, or hispanic.
Even though GZ did not identify Trayvon as black until the dispatcher asked him, the fact remains he was calling about a black suspicious person. Didn’t GZ have a habit of calling 911 about black people in the neighborhood? Would love to know if he called to report anyone besides black people.
It seems that he doesn’t call in on other people, unless they’re doing something obviously disruptive/outrageous. He calls in on blacks because he imagines they will do something, or he imagines that they have done something. Not a good record to be sure.
@Sandra Graham
That is completely true, however, with or without the dispatcher question, Zimmerman’s statement is still unaltered and would still lead one to think if it was racially motivated, if that happened to be their thoughts on the incident. Its actually Zimmerman’s own actions and statements that lead people to their perceptions of Z, and the editing does not change that impression nor does it imply any racism. Even if they had a version where the dispatcher’s question is heard, people would still wonder if it was racially motivated due to its connection to all the other statements and actions.
@SouthernGirl2
It’s true. I’ve had people tell me that they have nothing against Blacks as long as they don’t move to their neighborhood.
Something funny from a Zidiot;
“October 4, 2012 at 4:23 pm
YES….YES…YES…a subpoena needs to go out to that queen of trash….I’d like to get the “Views” take on…perhaps…the whole show getting a subpoena…”
Forgive my arrogance,(ROFLOL) but they don’t know people just can’t go around issuing subpoenas without a filed case and after an answer is filed to the complaint???? Geeze!
Thanks for the clarification Professor.
Now that I think about it, how in the heck can GZ claim damages!? By making an inference that GZ racially profiled Trayvon, NBC helped him raise over $200,000 dollars. LOL
‘Xactly.
@ Vicky – BINGO!
I listened to the call again and indeed, “He looks black” (at :29 sec) was in response to desk officer’s question “Is he white, black or Hispanic?”
But in the call, GZ says “He’s got his hand in his waist band(1:04), and he’s a black male(1:09), he’s got a button on his shirt(1:11),late teens(1:13)…” so who made him repeat the race description? SPD? Sean the desk officer?Too late to sue them too?
Professor…to your 9:47. As I have said, and agree with you, he did not suffer any damages unless he says “My feelings were hurt” The bottom line is that editing is done all the time and he uttered every word on that call.
What influence did it have in the long run…..
And if they think Moron O’ Mara can hold a candle to their legal team all I have to say is A hahahaha
They already stated “no comment” I think Z already had a talk with O’ Mara about another interview, it is about time, to discuss this new lawsuit. Lets face it, it wouldn’t surprise us now would it.
I read the article earlier today. I believe GZ hired another lawyer for the NBC issue.
Of course. With NBC registered in one state and GZ being a resident of the State of Florida, it falls under federal jurisdiction — playing with the big boys. O’Mara doesn’t have that experience. It also requires subscription to a PACER account and knowledge of electronic filing.
There are two attorneys who I highly respect who occasionally take federal cases, but always call me to electronically file papers and keep them informed of the docket and schedules.
Additionally, researching cases in the federal system can be challenging, because not all federal districts decide the same issues alike — you want to only cite cases decided in the federal district where the case is filed.
What idiot would he find to take on NBC? LOL
Possibly a lawyer who had made a lot of money and needed a large write off?
I am no expert in lawsuits but couldn’t NBC countersue Zimmerman for damages stemming from them filing a frivolous lawsuit which wastes their company time and lawyer’s time, which equates money?
I dont think Zimmerman has a strong case or the credibility as well as the money to play with the big boys LOL
If GZ does file a lawsuit against NBC, it would be filed in the federal court system. If they try filing it in a state court, NBC’s counsel would have it removed to federal court the next day. In federal court, you would want to cite to SCOTUS (US Supreme Court) since it is the law of the land. All of the U.S. Circuit and District Courts have to follow SCOTUS’ interpretations of federal law. All of the U.S. District Courts within a given circuit must also follow the federal law interpretations of that circuit’s U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, unless the Supreme Court interprets the law differently.
@Jun – Yes, federal courts are known for imposing sanctions and awarding attorney’s fees and costs to those who choose to file frivolous actions under Fed.R.Civ.Proc., Rule 11 and the Judges are not afraid to use it.
he is considering suing, no lawsuit has been filed. this is all huff and puff in hopes of rekindling racial anger donations.
tubeinatube says: “He is considering suing, no lawsuit has been filed. this is all huff and puff in hopes of rekindling racial anger donations.” You are more than likely correct. MOM wants to keep those defense donations rolling in from the conservative treehouse type donors.
Considering…. As if Moron O’ Mara, or anyone else he hires will hold a candle to their legal team. He won’t win and they won’t offer him a dime in an out of court settlement.
The facts are that the editing changed nothing.He and he alone uttered those words which includes the c word. He is clearly profiling Trayvon on his call. He suffered no losses.
Hiring a lawyer to represent GZ to handle possible claims he may file against the media tells me he is no longer in need of funds. Last I heard was OMara had not been paid anything thus far due to GZs enormous living expenses. Now another lawyer! Interesting. More fodder to add to his possible possible book of fiction – I Am the Most-Hated Man In America – because of his firm belief in victory.
Professor, Can judges depart fro mandatory sentencing guidelines? I know the law says the sentence GZ is facing is a minimum of 25 years, does that ie the judges hands?
I am obviously not the professor, and I could be wrong, but my understanding is the Judge has to go on what the mandatory “minimum” sentencing guidelines are – they have a minimum that they must impose and then increase it based upon certain enhancement charges, such as the use of a gun, defendant’s prior criminal history points, etc. – but they cannot go lower than the minimum without the prosecutor agreeing to change the charge to a lesser charge that would lower the minimum sentencing guideline – am I correct Professor?
CN, That is what I thought. I just wanted to make sure. My next question is, does he have to serve the full 25 or is there the possibility to early release?
I thought there was another 10 years because Trayvon was a minor.
GZ will be sentenced to life. He will be sentenced to life because of his deliberate action in following Trayvon, lying about how and where the altercation took place, and also because in effort to support self-defense, lied about what Trayvon said and did.
He can sit in his cell writing letters to ShelLIE who will be serving time in another prison.
I can only pray you are correct with life imprisonment for Zimmerman. He should be institutionalized for life. I do wonder if there are “paybacks” in prison waiting for Zimmerman.
@Rachel – I am not clear on this – In my state, WA (professor would know) we have good time, etc. that allows an offender to be released early depending on his conduct while in prison. During the CA case, I recall there being talk that Florida does not have good time credit and that 25 years is 25 years..and that life is just that life (not 20 years as in some states). I think there would be enhancements added to GZ’s sentence for (1) Trayvon being a minor and (2) for use of a gun, and possibly (3) for trying to cover it up by claiming self-defense. Maybe the Professor will clarify this for us.
I do not know the intricacies of Florida’s sentencing guidelines. I do know that states differ in the amount good-behavior credit they will permit a prison inmate to earn. The limit is expressed as a certain number of days per month. A state legislature can amend existing law to increase or decrease that limit. In practice the limits have not changed for the most part.
Prison overcrowding is a major problem in our country. Prison overcrowding strains existing resources creating all sorts of problems that are not being addressed. Overcrowding and the problems it causes create a dangerous environment for inmates and guards that arguably violates the Eighth Amendment prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.
One possible solution is to release people earlier than they would otherwise be released in accord with existing laws and regulations. Some states have adopted this approach granting early release to inmates convicted of nonviolent offenses, if they have a record of good behavior while incarcerated. Although many people claimed the sky would fall as a result of early-release programs, recidivism has been lower than expected.
Early release programs have alleviated some overcrowding, but it cannot solve the problem without a policy at the front end that substantially reduces the number of people being sentenced to prison and reduces the length of the sentences imposed.
Mandatory minimum sentences are not flexible and cannot be adjusted with early-release programs. The inability to reduce them complicates and frustrates efforts to reduce prison populations to manageable levels that do not violate the Cruel and Unusual Punishment Clause.
Building more prisons is expensive and does not make any sense because we have the highest rate of imprisonment in the world. Privatizing prisons is about as effective as attempting to put out a fire with gasoline.
We should be having a fact-based discussion nationwide to develop a new approach to sentencing in criminal cases. I favor ending the War on Drugs and legalizing possession of drugs. I also support abolishing mandatory minimum sentencing, especially for people convicted of nonviolent crimes.
One thing is certain: Using mandatory minimum sentencing to send more people to prison for longer periods of time makes absolutely no sense.
I’m with you there professor. TWOD is nonsense, stupid and dangerous. It is the reason why drug sales and trafficking is the cause of so much killing. The high sentences only serve to keep drug prices high, increasing the profits and increasing corruption.
It’s not so far fetched to think that some well-to-do king pins would pay others to take the rap for them and pay them for sitting in jail. The same as the mob used to do.
They won’t do it of course, what other business can generate so much “black money” enough to fund wars? Remember Iran/Contra? Well there’s plenty more if anyone cares to look.
Hey neighbor – I’m in WA too!!! Maybe this will help:
http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/homicide/second-degree-murder.html
Also, this judge is known for being hard – she is known for imposing long prison terms. She sentenced a robber to 27 years in prison after he rejected a 20-year deal from a prosecutor. She also after sentencing a man to mandatory life (because of her age) after raping a 10-year-old girl, tacked on 2 more life sentences for a total of 3 life sentences.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2007-12-08/news/rape08_1_rosales-tucson-sanford
But there is extra time tacked on because Trayvon was a minor.
@CherokeeNative:
I’m reposting without links because my links got stuck in moderation:
Hey neighbor – I’m in WA too!!! Maybe this will help:
(link I’m not going to post, but explains mandatory sentencing in Florida for Murder 2)
Also, this judge is known for being hard – she is known for imposing long prison terms. She sentenced a robber to 27 years in prison after he rejected a 20-year deal from a prosecutor. She also after sentencing a man to mandatory life (because of her age) after raping a 10-year-old girl, tacked on 2 more life sentences for a total of 3 life sentences.
But there is extra time tacked on because Trayvon was a minor.
Xena is correct. In FL, killing a minor with a gun in which there are special circumstances it is life with no parole. He followed, initiated and lied outright.
@Rachael – Hiya!!! What part of WA? I’m in the capitol – Olympia. I’ve read that Nelson is a tough Judge and I hope she gets to demonstrate that to GZ and O’Mara..LOL
In WA, when we have a charge – we know what the enhancements are – I don’t recall seeing that in GZ’s case other than Murder 2 – anyone? – in any event, I was figuring there would be a gun enhancement and then an enhancement for the victim being a minor – but I haven’t seen anything that is conclusive with that. I am not saying it doesn’t exist, just that I haven’t seen it and I don’t know if that is something that is brought in later.
It’s my understanding that GZ’s charge of M2 can also be reduced to manslaughter, and I believe that enhancements in FL, if any, are added after the conviction. Maybe Professor Leatherman can answer this.
Interesting video…
I’ll take Charcoal for a thousand. He knew gray because Taaffe said so.
@racerrodig. My bet is riding on Osterman. Some say it’s not him in the M&I bank vid, but I believe it is. He was at the bank’s drive-through at 6:38 p.m. that night, and it’s right across the street from RTL. The prosecution has entered that vid into discovery.
Somewhere I read or heard Zimmerman say Osterman was at his house that evening. Do you remember hearing anything like that as part of evidence?
Don’t know who was on the video but bank records should be able to confirm whether it was Osterman making ATM deposit or withdrawal right?
I seriously doubt the SP would take a video into evidence without checking out and confirming who is in it first. Nor would it be any big deal for them to do so, the transactions are time stamped and so is the video. The SP could easily get a warrant, the bank could confirm it in minutes, because these transactions are all on computer. In fact, the SP may not even need a warrant because, I’m sure the FBI could simply ask Homeland Security, who I’m sure has a financial disclosure agreement with Osterman already in place as a term of employment.
JM, the only thing that I remember about Osterman being at GZ’s house that night was after ShelLIE called him saying that GZ shot someone else.
The prosecution has GZ’s phone and phone records. If GZ received a call or text message from Osterman that evening about seeing a “suspicious guy,” they will already have that and not need any bank slips. Bank slips would only prove that Osterman conducted a transaction — not that he saw Trayvon enter the community and contacted GZ.
I think they will use both bank records and phone records if Osterman is connected in any way as the bank machine records and the phone calls connect Osterman to Trayvon.
Since the bank video is being discussed, I’d like to mention that $40 is a typical “quick cash” withdrawal, and TM had $40.15 in his pockets according to evidence. Since the 7-11 video shows him digging around for a minute in various pockets in order to pay, I wonder if $40 was planted on TM, because hoody or not, he looked awkward and “uncool” in a way that self-conscious teenagers dread.
Could it be a sign of a failed set-up?
Xena…..That could very well be. I’m thinking it was Taaffe in his truck with him that night, the one in the white T shirt. With this sad sack of misfits……. who really knows.
I believe it is Osterman at the bank also. What his role was that night I would love to know. Here’s what strange, and I know it is fruitless to apply logic to illogical people, but when I was a kid and something happened, no matter how small, we scattered and had a “…don’t mention my name…” mentality. These clowns use the George Carlin “…Attracting Attention to Yourself..” approach.
@Fed-up taxpayer
Trayvon’s parents stated that they gave him money so he could go to the movies and for fast food — like pizza. Trayvon reminds me of myself. I will dig for change to pay for things rather than give the clerk paper money and then have to put up with more coins. The 7 Eleven vid does show he was looking for change first before paying with paper money.
Me too – I always fumble for the closest amount possible to a purchase total before I break a larger bill.
Also, someone said that the video shows that TM was handling a few bills after he made his purchase? If these aren’t the two twenties, then he probably gave the other guys who came in a couple of dollars. Meaning they panhandled him, explaining why he waited? Maybe they thought they’d need help with their purchases and asked him to wait for them? Kids do things like that, after all, he could have known them from playing around the neighborhood. I don’t think there’s much to learn about the money angle.
What we really need to know is, more about TM’s movements and activities during the prior 6 days at the RATL. Unfortunately he’s not around to tell us and I don’t think his father kept such a close watch on him. May be he has a friend in the area who knows more.
Wow, that’s a great catch. However, could GZ have seen Trayvon at least briefly in some overhead light or headlights just before the NEN call? Even so, I think the color would be hard to identify. Most would just say dark hoody.
I believe so because he did admit to follow behind Trayvon in his car. With those headlights it would be easier to make out the hoodie color. Also Zimmerman’s descriptions prove that he was indeed stalking Trayvon.
Yes, and that could be the REAL catch – GZ knew exactly what color that hoody was because he was already pursuing TM when he made that NEN call.
I believe thats how the dispatcher knew he was following Trayvon and hence asked that and I am sure the State will bring it up as that is something lil old me noticed LOL
Either way, it’s a great catch. I’m learning a lot about how investigators have to think.
I believe Zimmerman got out of his truck, pretended to walk to the club house, and walked by a shelter seeking Trayvon before walking back to his east facing truck, passing Trayvon again, to make the NEN call. I believe that this is why someone that looks a lot like Zimmerman appears in the reflection of the club house front doors on the closed circuit security camera video of the clubhouse.
this is how he knew what color the sweater was in my opinion
Hmmmmmmm, so it is clear that he’d been following/watching/stalking Trayvon before he even placed the call. He also knew that Trayvon was “in his late teens”. If you are in your truck, it’s dark and raining (hood over head), how can you know so many details, unless you were that close? He’d already known all this information when he dialed the number. My take is that he spotted Trayvon taking shelter at the mailboxes and watched the direction that the kid walked.
If I am not mistaken, one of the security cameras captured two individuals walking past the clubhouse in close proximity. At that time, George had already sized Trayvon up knowing that he was not a thug. I often wonder why he would get out of his car to follow Trayvon, but during his bogus calls to NEN in the past he coward behind his telephone making sure the dispatcher kept him anonymous? Yet, he felt compelled to follow and confront Trayvon. Why did he not confront the guys that he seen actually trying to commit a crime? The difference is that they were thugs and not a teen walking from the store!
All this points to premeditation which there is no proof of.
I’m with TubeinaTube – GZ was trolling around the clubhouse and had already I.D’d Trayvon, clothes and all, way before he called the NEN dispatcher. FWIW.
Very interesting…. I also asked on a previous thread about the “he’s got a button on his shirt” statement by George. I was keep thinking, now how close was George to Trayvon to know, not only that his hoodie was grey, but also that he had a “button on his shirt” as opposed to a logo or a patch or a stitched something or another. I mean, that just strikes me as odd that he was able to give such details about Trayvon’s attire. I keep thinking about how close he had to have gotten to Trayvon to know these details. It was dark and raining and he claimed to have been inside his vehicle. Could he have pretended to check his mailbox while Trayvon took shelter from the rain which would put him close enough to see that his shirt was grey and not black?
Very interesting!
Yes Nellie.. his statement to NEN that “he’s in his late teens” is another lie Zimmerman has told. If you remember, during his apology to the Martin’s during his first bond hearing, he changed this statement to now claim that he thought Trayvon was “around my age.”
My apologies, the exact quote during the bond hearing was, “I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am, and I did not know if he was armed or not.”
I have a hunch Trayvon had been under observation for several days before he was murdered.
@ looneydoone you said: “I have a hunch Trayvon had been under observation for several days before he was murdered.
==============================================>
I’m interested to hear what indications you have for making this statement. I too have been considering this a possibility for some time. But, so far I have nothing to “hang my hat on” so to speak. So, I wonder if your speculations on the matter might point to some leads. Thanks
This is a man who after stealing a child’s life, stole his final screams as his own. 25 years is not enough.
You got my vote.
racerrodig says:
October 6, 2012 at 9:57 am
Lonnie to your 12:19 . I saw his refund in the 1st or 2nd evidence dump. I have a customer / friend who is from FL and has a CCW permit. His dad is a cop very close to Sanford. We talk about this all the time and his dad confirmed he does not have a valid permit.
racerrodig i was curious i went threw both 1 and 2 evidence dump, and cannot locate that refund! but i have read that he took that 6 hr class, and paid 90 fee for the class! if you could please tell me where this refund is shown i would really appreciate it thank you
I’m so there with you!
Not only that, he also sits on the Back of Trayvon as he lay dying. he plops his FAT stinking behind down on the back of this baby, as he is dying in agony from Zimmerman’s hollow point bullet. I think he should have been slapped with a first degree murder charge, with the state seeking the dp. George Zimmerman does not deserve to ever walk free in this life again. I honestly hate this POS and I refuse to call him what he isn’t and, that is a man. BTW, who else did he shoot?
yup, plea bargain my foot. There is enough to put this man away for his natural life. Put him away and then let’s get to cleaning out the SPD.
Absolutely disgusting. Everything I’ve stated about that rat bastard (pardon my French) I stand by.
Mr. I’m so cool and above the law. Well I’ll take Bubba wins for 10,000,000.00 please.
“Well I’ll take Bubba wins for 10,000,000.00 please.”
Can’t wait till this lying coward lands in prison and runs into some brothers who are as disgusted and angry as posters here are with GZ’s actions.
In prison, most have nothing left to lose and can let GZ know up close and personal exactly what they think of him for murdering an innocent teen.
@racerrodig: I went to the Florida ccw permits site and did a search for Zimmerman, George M. No CCW permit under that name was issued. Unless he had it unlisted. No way to tell.
Where in the evidence dump did you find that he didn’t get the permit and got the refund instead?
This should be huge if true, since he would have been a criminal, for carrying a concealed weapon, even if he’d done nothing at all.
Worse, since he says he goes nowhere without his gun, if he has no ccwp the police just overlooked the admission of regularly committed crimes. That would be a case ender, stalking and killing a kid with an illegal firearm.
Lonnie to your 12:19 . I saw his refund in the 1st or 2nd evidence dump. I have a customer / friend who is from FL and has a CCW permit. His dad is a cop very close to Sanford. We talk about this all the time and his dad confirmed he does not have a valid permit. There is so much more going on here that it’s a joke. He never took the classes yet has the paper permit. Daddy’s influence I’m betting. The prosecution is going to spring so much on him he’ll wish Trayvon had killed him.
I have a few Federal LE connections and trust me……He’s Done.
I have a few connections and friends in FL in LE…..He’s Done.
I’m not at liberty to state everything I’ve heard but …..He’s Done.
Thanks, got it, first or second dump, I’ll look for it. damn, I just deleted the “rumor” post on my blog, I’ll have to redo it. Okay, thanks.
What it would mean is that GZ was carrying an illegal weapon that night, and every other time he carried his weapon concealed. His friends say he carries it everywhere he goes, he says so too, so that’s going to be a big help to the SP. While the FBI may want to know more about why this aspect was accepted so easily?
Here’s a little something for all to read, that I’ve been working on:
WHERE WAS GEORGE? AT 6:42 ???
Note: As you read through this timeline, after hearing the 911 tapes,
it becomes apparent that GZ isn’t giving his actual locations, nor
reporting what is actually taking place.
=================================================
=================================================
5:09:– Trayvon makes call lasting 81 minutes, ends at 6:30
=================================================
6:05:– Trayvon leaves home for store. (est. ~16m_walk)
6:21:54 Trayvon is seen outside the store traveling
from the East to the West to enter 7 Eleven
6:24:32 Two minutes later Trayvon leaves the store
but is not seen outside heading back East
6:29:19 Trayvon is seen outside heading back East
6:30:– Trayvon’s 5:09 call ends
6:30:– Trayvon makes call lasting 13 minutes. ends 6:43
6:38:– Is that Mark Osterman at the M&I bank? SP has
taken the video into evidence.
6:41:– Incoming call lasting 4 minutes ends at 6:45
6:43:– Trayvon’s 6:30 call ends
6:45:– Incoming 6:41 call ends
6:45:– Trayvon makes call lasting 5 minutes ends at 6:50
6:46 :– Trayvon makes call lasting 2 minutes ends at 6:48
6:48:– 6:48 call ends
6:49:– Incoming call lasting 4 minutes ends at 6:53
6:50:– Trayvon’s 6:45 call ends.
6:54:– At mailboxes (est. 25 MIN WALKING AT
4.4ft/second = 6600 FEET
Trayvon needed only ~13:04 to reach the
mailboxes from 711.
Or eta of ~6:42:19 @4.4/ft/sec. walking speed.
6:54:– Incoming call lasting 18 minutes — ends 7:14:– ?
This puts him easily and securely at the RATL mailboxes by
6:54pm with ~564 feet remaining to home via the dog walk.
A 2 minute 8 seconds walk.
6:42:19 approx. At mailboxes: ~3452 feet from 711 @ 4.4ft/sec. 13min.
7:04:– Incoming call last 4 minutes ends 7:08
7:08:– 7:04 call ends
7:09:34 George calls NEN to report suspicious
person.
7:10:22 GZ: “Now he’s just staring at me!”
“It’s the clubhouse”
7:10:32 GZ: “Yeah, now he’s coming towards me”
7:10:37 GZ: “He’s got his hand in his waistband.:
7:10:55 GZ: “Yup He’s coming to check me out”
7:11:41 GZ: “SH– He’s running”
7:11:51 Dispatch: “Are you following him?”
7:11:59 GZ: “Yeah!”
7:11:59 Dispatch: “Ok, we don’t need you to do that!”
7:12:02 GZ: “Okay!”
7:12:08 Dispatch: “What is your name?”
7:12:– TM receives call.
Phone records show this call ended at 7:16 p.m.
Police arrived roughly a minute later.
7:12:– TM tells DD man following, puts hoodie up.
7:12:10 GZ: “George… He ran!”
7:12:52 Dispatch: “What address are you parked in front of?”
7:12:56 GZ: ” Um, I don’t know, it’s a cut through…”
7:13:13 Dispatch: “Okay do you want to just meet with
them right near the mailboxes then?”
7:13:16 GZ: “Yeah that’s fine!”
7:13:20 Dispatch: “Alright George, I’ll let them know to
meet you around there, okay?”
7:13:22 GZ: “Acutally could you have them , could you
have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?”
7:13:25 Dispatch: “Okay, yeah that’s no problem.”
7:13:37 Dispatch: “You’re welcome!”
7:13:39 GZ ends NEN call
7:14:– TM’s 6:54 call ends
7:16:– 7:12 call ends.
—————————————————————————-
7:16:59 Gunshot
“There is so much more going on here that it’s a joke. He never took the classes yet has the paper permit. ”
I remember Osterman making a big deal about Zimmerman taking classes to get permit on Dr. Phil – which led some to believe Zimmerman was lying about not knowing about SYG as it was most likely part of the classes. Wonder if Osterman was lying or GZ lied to him about his classes to get a permit.
What an ugly cast of characters on Team Zimmerman.
If I’m not mistaken, Zimmerman had also told someone that he had graduated with his degree and they threw him a party, which was also a lie. He was on academic probation and dropped from the program after the Trayvon Martin case.
His friend, Mark Osterman, hosted that party.
Thanks Professor for that clarity. That makes it even odder that Osterman is defending ZImmerman with such allegiance. Hypothetically, if one of my friends lied to me about completing school and I threw them a party, I would be flabbergasted. This case gets stranger by the second. Perhaps, Osterman is seeking fame and book sales. But, he could have come out on his promotional tour with a different stance knowing that he too has been deceived by Zimmerman… which this is another example that shows Zimmerman is possibly a compulsive liar and none of his words can be trusted or has no loyalty to anyone, even those who have come to defend him now. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction sometimes. (Sorry for the ramble), I just find it mind-boggling that Osterman and his wife are not bothered by throwing a graduation party for their “friend” who was on academic probation at the time he was (I assume) blowing out candles, taking photos, and being praised on an accomplishment that didn’t exist.
“I just find it mind-boggling that Osterman and his wife are not bothered by throwing a graduation party for their “friend” who was on academic probation at the time he was (I assume) blowing out candles, taking photos, and being praised on an accomplishment that didn’t exist.:
I find it mind-boggling that Osterman is trying to convince the public that GZ is telling the truth about what happened the night GZ shot and killed Trayvon Martin, knowing GZ lied to him.
It could be the Ostermans wanted to encourage GZ to clear up his credit/grade problems and finish his degree and felt he was close enough to the goal to throw a party.
That’s reassuring, but if so, woonder why there’s been no leaks regarding the permit. So many other things have been leaked.
When there’s some evidence, people tend not to doubt it. The police say they found a ccwp permit in GZ’s wallet, and it takes so little to get one, why would anyone doubt he had one? He certainly acted as though he did over a very long period of time.
I’m sure people saw that refund receipt but dismissed it as something they either didn’t understand or would be otherwise trivial. Hey, we’ve been working for months on trying to resolve the anomalies in the NEN call, assuming they were truly reporting what was happening contemporaneously or close to it. We’d never believe that it was made up of whole cloth, at least not until now.
Never just say that things have to be the way they are, simply because everyone thinks they should be that way. That’s circular thinking. Discoveries are made because one person doesn’t think the way everyone else does.
*applause*
They probably would have, but then, why should they raise the bar for themselves, and obtain very nearly the same sentence? The SP was under pressure to move quick and they had enough evidence to do so on a lesser charge. Not only that, but they appear to have evidence that could extend to charges on several other fronts. Serino has hired a lawyer. if that doesn’t send signals of troubles in Sanford I don’t know what will.
Yes, and every time I think about him trying snuff out Trayvon’s last words just like he snuffed his last breath, it angers me!
Chugging along…
I just went over to HuffPost for the helluvit and posted a bunch of quickie answers to the drivel. Tomorrow I’ll check and see if they have been “ethnically cleansed.”
Oh Malisha. I haven’t been to the HuffPost to comment since around early May. I don’t know if I can remember my login info now. LOL!!! When I did comment, comments were held in moderation before approval. Of the few responses I received, they were difficult to track in order to reply. It was time consuming and I lost interest there.
Did they change how they handle comments, or is there a difference depending on what section? Where I commented was in Black Voices.
Trust me, you don’t want to know anything about that cesspool aka the Huffington Post/Black Voices site. the bigots have been allowed to take over that site. I’m not going back because, it’s a waste of time to try and comment there. the socks flag comments that are not in violation of the rules there and, the ROGUE moderators are on their side so they delete them.
@ ladystclaire…In the last couple of weeks, it has gotten much worse. As the evidence turns against GZ more and more, the Zimbots have become uglier and more intense with their vitriol. It seems that they are desperate to make TM look like an absolute monster.
Malisha…..lol…..I was also at that sewage tank earlier. It’s getting worse. There are more Zimbots that have just signed on this month. (I do suspect that they are all from Zimmy’s personal circle) The one that racerrodig said was stalking him, “Dino Domingo”, posted a comment (that the Zimbots have been repeating, in one form or another) that stated……….
“punk attacks neighborhood watchman…..watchman gets beat bad…..pulls out his gun a(nd) kills the punk…..thank goodness he aimed well…..case closed!”
Such is the Zimbot mentality. Sadly, there are still Tray supporters over there who continue to try to make a point with these control-freaks….of course, to no avail. Some of the Zimbots have been fanning Tray supporters in order to “follow” them. I found one that “fanned” me in order to “follow” me too. HuffPo has sadly become the “rag-magazine” of the internet that is attracting people who much rather be entertained than have to think, It started out with a more political & environmental agenda but has been going down the tubes for a while now.
I used to go there. Thank goodness I found this site and don’t go there anymore. It physically pains me and makes me ill.
“Fanned” by Katrutledge, a long dormant AOL account ??
katrutledge posted 4 comments before disappearing from huff=poo, yet has a growing fan list (134 last checked) and is fanning all the new socks too.. I know I didn’t fan and/or follow back a katrutledge……yet, there I am, listed among them, as are other TM supporters, and it’s following me(according to my own profile page fans list). BUT *who* is it ? What screenname(s) are hiding behind “katrutledge” ??
Rogue mods ? You betcha !
I can confirm that comment. Sick, race baiting, hate mongers they are. The last few days are all about how the ping logs and that preposterous B & W picture will prove his innocence.
Huh ?? The Zidiot Nation, a term I coined,at it’s best. Dino is the one why cyber stalked me and posted lies you would not believe.
It’s a cesspool for sure now.
Just a quick question about fanning and such — what is a sock. I am pretty new to all of this.
Bust on Dino ……..then wait for his version of Psychoanalysis of you.
The Zidiots have multiple email accounts and handles; one for comments, another agreeing to comments, and another that encourages the first to “get” the poster who seeks justice for Trayvon. The second personality generally does one-line drive-bys.
It’s a pattern I recognized early in Yahoo comments. There is no way that the same 3 or 4 people come online to the same comment board at the same time each time one of them posts.
Their comments serve no purpose other than to inflame and harass. If no justice for Trayvon people post, you will find that the Zidiots will use the comment board as a chat line.
Well, I’m technologically challenged and can’t figure out how to get back into Huff Post Black Voices, so I can’t figure out if my comments have been removed. I don’t even remember my name over there — it wasn’t Malisha — I think it was something like “been there seen that” or something. Anyway I’m not too worried about it. When a webpage gives me grief I leave.
A comment I was trying to post today said: Two people have a fight. One of them kills the other. Then, the one who was killed gets to be dead; the other one gets to be a criminal defendant in a murder trial. That’s how it goes, see?
Today is GZ’s birthday – and may the rest be behind bars.
It is !! Enjoy it ya rat bastard, it’s the last one on the outside.
Party on George….Party on SheLie………..You’re not worthy !!
I just went to Racist Cesspool at HP and went down today’s posts. Not 1 Zidiot mentioned his birthday, which confirms the fact that this is not about Z, but agendas.
Needless to say, I pointed that out in my post while stating Happy Birthday to him…..in my own inimitable way of course.
Amen to that!
For the record, I stated on Huff Post to agitate the Zidiot Nation that none of them even knew it was Zidiot’s B’ day. I said this is not about Z and none of you care, it’s about your agenda’s.
Several admitted that they could not care about Z at all !
They stated it’s about “…self defense…” rights. So needless to say, my response was, Z has not even legally and officially claimed that yet AND there is no evidence he used self defense.
NONE……This in effect makes all of them racists’ by default.
I was right, they have an agenda. The worst of them who uses the name “LetJusticePrevail” has been called “Let Criminals Prevail” now.
So as a group, all of Team Trayvon can rest a bit easier. If the Zidiot Nation states outright, they don’t care about what they state is the”…real victim…” then what dog do they actually have in this fight to be so vile about it.
2 words “GUN RIGHTS”
I just finished doing my timeline deposit, using the phone logs and Screaminj’s spreadsheet of the phone calls, also posted on my blog: http://tinyurl.com/d4x2y6b Yeah it’s a dump, but it’s all there, lol. Wish I had someone to put things in a better order. But hey, I started it just for my personal use.
Anyway, you notice that GZ is saying “he’s running” while TM hasn’t yet received the incoming call that we know came in while he was still sheltering at the mailboxes. Meaning that GZ has him out running, before he even leaves shelter. So, what was GZ really doing when he says that he was following? He could not have been running after TM, “in the same direction he went”, because TM had not even gone that way yet.
Thus, it appears that GZ wasn’t reporting things as they were happening, but was, instead, just telling a story, getting “facts” that he wanted on tape, to use later.
Now that explains a whole bunch of the mysteries we’ve been puzzling over for months. Some have wondered why he even bothered with making the NEN call at all, since it only served to become more and more incriminating. Now we know, it was done to “sell” a story that had been cobbled together to hide what was actually going on. Perhaps even conceal the involvement of others?
I understand, from one of the posters here, that Trayvon had been at RATL for almost a week before this day came along. Plenty of time for anyone interested to observe him. Perhaps, even enough time for him to have crossed paths, in not-so-friendly ways with the NW’er’s. People who patrolled in such secretive ways that even the Police, who set up the NW, did not know and were not advised who the members were, or what they were doing.
This case is about ready to blow sky high. Pity any LEO who sided with GZ, they’re going to be under heavy watch.
Uh Oh — I can just see it now. Birthday candles on the cake. He will see fire. He will call it in. They won’t arrive on time. He will have to take action to protect everyone in the neighborhood; he will shoot that cake and than lunge on top of it and scream “HELP ME HELP ME HELP ME” — but not because it’s chocolate.
LMBO
Will he get his noggin bashed and more importantly, will it be documented !!
If he breaks his nose “again”, will he get an x-ray and treatment or just let ShelLie bandage it?
Speaking of ShelLIE when does she go to court again for her perjury charge? Can they keep continuing it? Seems if ShelLIE gets a felony record, it might break her down to say what really happened on 02/26 from her perspective.
We don’t know the answers to those questions yet, racerrodig — we will soon find out what God’s plan is.
LOL
Zimmerman’s broken nose claims and that Trayvon caused it will be easily dissected into stir fry. I saw his police station hi def pics – his nose was not broken, its not bent out of shape or broken, he had a slight bloody nose & he is the only one claiming Trayvon did it. Zimmerman prolly ran into that tree or slipped and fell into something like Austin the kid witnessed. Austin witnessing that, with all of the forensics, and Zimmerman’s credibility, there is a lot of reasonable doubt to his claims.
“….um, this is Cheorge again, um…..and we’ve had some real suspicious black cake here….”
Sandra Graham, a lawsuit for defamation would probably be taken on a contingency — or perhaps some lawyer who was similar to George in some ways would be glad to take it on for free, as well as to get his own name out there in the news.
Robert Zimmerman Jr., Esq., perhaps?
Similar to George in some ways…
Now that you mention it, your answers make very good sense. Perhaps THIS is the Robert Zimmerman tour is all about, too.
That’s a different RZ jr I believe. His sister is a lawyer in CA I have seen or maybe that is a different name also. The RZ jr lawyers listed to match where Z’s brother lives. BUT with this crew………….who knows? In any event, this guy’s a lawyer??
Thank you. I have asked this before but I can not find if my question has been answered. If GZ does file a lawsuit against the media because he claims they have painted him to be a racist, when it came to the hearing, would he not have to prove he was NOT a racist. Will he use the FBI report finding that they could find no racism in his background.
HE is a racist. He figured that no one would miss a black kid. All black kids are supposed to be worthless. Our media tells us this (unfortunately) all of the time by focusing on what’s wrong with some black neighborhoods and some black people. It doesn’t matter how many achievers or achievements there are with the black community (Pres. Obama/Oprah/college grads/business people, congress people, mayors, police chiefs, military personal/generals, teachers/school admins.), the focus in this country for some reason has always been to brow-beat black people to keep them in “their place.” In America, the focus and emphasis on “black” as pathological is both historical and systemic. So, Georgy felt he was on safe ground by eliminating a black youth, and very correct in his assessment that most would not care, and that he would most definitely get away with it. The scary part is that he was correct in his thinking of how this would be handled. If Trayvon didn’t have the caliber of family that he did; we would have never heard another damned thing about this case.
New Lawyer “….OK now George, tell me the truth (Pffffft) and what damages have you actually suffered”
Z “…..um, well……my feelings were hurt….” “I was soooooo scared I was forced out of my house and had to hide”
NL “….well, where and when did that happen…..”
Z “…..um, when did what happen….”
NL “When did you go into hiding when you were scared for your life ?”
Z “….I was scared ?”
NL “YES !! you said you were scared and went into hiding…..when?”
Z “OH….that night, um…..I was scared that night”
NL “…..well now…….that presents a problem George, the edited call was not released until a month later, how do you cover that base”
Z “….um, cover that base ??……I didn’t play Little League….nobody like me…….”
This is about how that interview will go.
http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-threatens-defamation-lawsuit-against-nbc-for-media-bias
Check out the comments LOL
The Examiner is toilet paper
No face or reputation at all for news and media
“Due in large part to NBC’s actions, George has had to live in hiding, in fear for his life,” the Florida man’s lawyer stated.
Bullshit, George went into hiding when he left the police station the night he murdered Trayvon. At that time, NBC and all other media outlets did not cover this murder here in Ohio. It wasn’t until his family could not get an arrest for the murder of their kid did I hear about it. George was already in hiding. When he murdered Trayvon, he didn’t even call his own family, he called Osterman. I think they heard about it in the news weeks later just like all of America.
He is in hiding because he murdered a kid! No one is out to kill him. The only thing wanted is justice in court and now that that is in process – come out, come out wherever you are!
Ah, he’s made a statement that he’ll, obviously, be unable to support in a court of law, he’s going to discover the hard way, that you can’t get away with that. In fact, the worst thing in the world would be to have a trial on the issues before his criminal trial date.
If he’s hoping that NBC’s insurance carrier is going to settle, forget about it! They know that he’ll never take the stand! When he doesn’t, they’ll sue the pants off of him. If he does, he’ll lose and he’ll be set back for the criminal case. It’s a lose lose situation. MOM must be laughing at how lucky he is to have “slipped off the hook”. GZ is a total catastrophic loser! A train wreck of biblical proportions.
That is the main perogative – they are hoping NBC will get scared and just settle. NBC has a reputation and 30 Billion value to protect, so they are sadly informed.
Lonnie Star,
Why do I think Trayvon had been under observation several days before gz murdered him ?
Nothing substantial to “hang my hat on”, just a hunch
Trayvon had been at the R@TL housing project 6 days. I think it’s safe to assume he’d been outside, maybe made several trips past Taffe’s window. The tweaker brigade was always “on duty” (none of them work). Odd too that gz reported Trayvon as “looking into houses” so close to Taafee’s unit.
Taking it further, it’s possible Trayvon was seen leaving the project OR spotted walking on the way back. Gz out cruising ? Osterman ? Taaffe ? alerted gz to Trayvon’s presence ??
Okay, that’s good, it’s more than I had. I hadn’t bothered to look, and didn’t come across any mention of how long he’d been there this trip. At least I didn’t pay any attention to it if I did see it. It just seemed strange to me that one day the kid goes to the story and winds up dead, at the hands of someone whose been so secretive about all of his NW activities.
TM is almost always on the phone with DD, so he’s not looking around and observing his surroundings much. If one of these creeps was giving him the evil eye, he’d be oblivious to it and that might have set them off. Taaffe could have even giving him some lip about using that cut through. Lots of possibilities with these nut cases.
““Due in large part to NBC’s actions, George has had to live in hiding, in fear for his life,” the Florida man’s lawyer stated.”
THAT’S a lie. He was already in hiding. All of his family and friend spokespersons have said so. That he went into hiding immediately after the shooting. Neighbors have even confirmed that they saw him loading his truck shortly after the shooting.
Wait wait — Trayvon had $40.15? Did he have a receipt from 7-11? Did he have money other than that? Either he had to break one of the 20′s at 7-11 and should have change or something does not add up. Does he get change at the 7-11?
I don’t think he need more than 2 or 3 dollars over the 40 to pay and he probably had the odd money in change. We did see him pay for the purchases, and his father says he gave him the money. Then there’s those guys he talks with at the store, outside, they could have asked for a couple of bucks besides. No way to know. But with Taaffe, and GZ in financial straights and Osterman hanging on to his job by a wing and a prayer, I sincerely doubt they’d plant 40 dollars on TM, what would be the purpose anyway?
There’s a reason why GZ is trying so hard to overcome the idea that he’s a racist. Junior’s latest media blast also confirms this. IMO, the feds are still investigating and GZ may be looking at a charge for committing a racial hate crime.
I’ve known people who think that if they file and prevail in a civil suit that it stands to preempt criminal charges. GZ has established a pattern of targeting Black males and justifies it on the basis of there being extensive burglaries. The truth is that the burglaries were not that significant.
In his 8/3/11 NEN call, he wanted to approach the suspicious guy and ShelLIE tells him no — that he’s not going out there. In his 8/6/11 call, GZ told the dispatcher that the suspicious guys were at the back gate and he was going there to meet the officers (because they could not get in the gate unless he opened it.) In his next breathe, he tells the dispatcher to let the cops know that the guys run over into another complex.
Before 2/26/12, GZ had already established in his mind that he had some type of authority to detain and interrogate young Black males while at the same time, not providing the police with enough information to locate. He never gave his address so the cops could visit his residence and speak with him directly.
Think about that. What would cause GZ to think that suspicious persons who “always get away” would file an FOIA to learn who called in a report on them? Or, did he suspect that someone in the SPD knew the suspicious persons and would provide them with the info? In the alternative, why would he not want the police coming to his residence? Was he afraid of being questioned by them, or afraid of what they might see if entering his home?
I wonder if not having a real ccwp might be part of it? I see on the Florida permits site there’s no GMZ permit listed. He was so pressed for cash, I really don’t see him putting in for an unlisted license, of course one can’t know, but I’m sure the feds do.
All I can say is he’d better have a genuine state issued permit, because he showed a card to the SPD at the station.
In any event, doesn’t it seem strange to anyone that the SPD would not have the name, address and phone no., of the captain of the NW their own community relations officer set up? And the SPD has it’s own history of race relations problems as well, it’s all over the local media archived pages. As you say, GZ is going to have a terrible time of trying to beat these charges.
When a FL CCW permit is revoked as a bail condition, is it completelly pulled from state listings or simply left on the list and marked as revoked?
That I don’t know. I didn’t see any revocations listed. But, gov’t isn’t usually so quick to put their records right either. I’ll wait until I find that receipt refunding his ccwp fees.
I don’t think it is anything as nefarious as he didn’t want the police entering his home (although I suppose it could be). I think it is more that he wanted to persue and detain someone until police got there so he could get a big ole pat on the back, the key to the city and honorary police chief or something. He was looking for recognition of his “astute” abilities.
He got another chance in February, finally, one of these assholes did not get away.
Does anyone know why GZ wasn’t accepted by police or sheriff dept rather than just be a wannabe cop and he was trying so hard to get recognition by them?
GZ was not accepted because of his bad grades, intelligence, and mental instability. I would also throw in his history of habits of bullying and aggression and manipulation into there too.
@Xena – Funny, I too have wondered why GZ had always remained so secretive about giving out his address when making his NEN calls… what I had come up with is he did not want his neighbors to see a police vehicle pulling up to his door and putting two and two together that he was the one placing all of the “suspicious person” calls – Mark O’s statement that neighbors would ask GZ to make the calls instead of themselves is pure B.S. in my opinion – but now you have me thinking there may be other reasons GZ was being so ellusive…hmmmm
@Jun, where did you get that information?
Its old news that Zimmerman was never accepted into the academy because of his mental instability. His grades are a dead giveaway for him not being accepted as well, so I did not need anyone to let me know of that. I based his history of bullying and aggression as a factor as it aggravates him to not be accepted but do not know if it is 100% sure. I would need to look for the article.
jm…to your 3:46 10/5 post. Z failed the Psychological evaluation on his Police Entrance Exam ! That is a matter of public record and is in the evidence…………Gee……Imagine that.
Be that as it may, it still would not deny him a ccwp. Without the ccwp he’d be illegally carrying a concealed weapon, and therefore committing another crime.
racerrodig says: “Z failed the Psychological evaluation on his Police Entrance Exam.”
So GZ was trying to be a hero hoping to change the outcome and be accepted by the police department? Interesting (and scary) that in spite of GZ’s previous adult police record and failure to pass a psychological evaluation he was still able to get a gun permit. Also kind of funny his brother said he wanted to be a judge. How does someone get to be a judge when you are a failure in school?
Connections, like his daddy.
I have a new post up:
Ma’at and the Golden Rule
Something occurred to me today. The proposed lawsuit against NBC would be saying that NBC portrayed George as a racist and therefore he had to go into hiding for fear of his life. This is strangely similar to the assertion that Trayvon Martin attacked George and that forced him to kill the kid for fear of his life. In both of these ideas, the core of the behavior, blamed on someone else, is George’s own flaw, George’s own fault, George’s own sin, if you will. HE was the one who called NEN to report that Trayvon looked “real suspicious” when indeed Trayvon did not look the least bit suspicious. HE was the one who said the quoted words on the NEN tape. HE was the one who chose to stalk and kill a kid who had not done anything wrong. And HE was the one who thereafter slandered the dead victim of his murderous misconduct by insisting that he was blameless and kinda hapless and gee willikers, the kid just skipped up and tried to kill him for no apparent reason, a transparent and disgraceful lie.
This is just George Zimmerman with his helpers saying the whole world must adjust itself to pay him homage. If he feels bad, he gets to kill; he gets to be paid big bucks; he gets compensated for his boo hoo’s and his boo-boo’s.
It’s your birthday George Zimmerman. Grow up. If you can’t feel shame, at least feel the weight of everyone’s disapproval. Don’t hide behind those immature bratty self-aggrandizing deluded followers of yours; face up. You messed up. You’re to blame. Take what you’ve got coming to you.
I also think that if he can get NBC to settle, he thinks that he can then say he is NOT racist and that proves it.
Unfortunately, I do think NBC will settle. Many settlements have been made about much less. And he does have a point. I don’t know what it is he is asking for, as in money, but I don’t think he will get all that he asks for – because he did NOT go into hiding because of what they said, he had already given plenty of evidence of his own about racisim, etc., but I do believe that the way it was “edited” made it look bad.
I do not deny he is doing it for the money because he needs money, but I do think it is a winable legal argument, though probably not for as much as he would like.
Look at how libel is proven in the US of A… Zimmerman can not prove the 3 points needed. Zimmerman, with the sunshine laws, has plenty of evidence out on him, where his credibility would come into question, as he would need to take the stand and prove all the accusations he has made against NBC…
“…in the United States, first, the person must prove that the statement was false. Second, the person must prove that the statement caused harm. Third, the person must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. For a celebrity or a public official, the person must prove the first three steps and that the statement was made with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth. Usually specifically referred to as “proving malice”…”
From what Cherokee told me, NBC can also countersue for damages for having their time wasted on a frivolous lawsuit for their company time and attorney time…
I do not know if NBC will settle but legally standing, Zimmerman has no proof of what is needed for his lawsuit and NBC lawyers would smash any of Zimmerman’s lawyers easily…
The fact remains that Zimmerman made his statements, his statements was part of a news piece, NBC & other media conglomerates routinely edit tapes to fit onto their shows, and none of his statements were altered to a different meaning from what he said
@Jun – I think you missed my point entirely. I am talking about a settlement and like I said, many settlements have been made on much less.
A settlement does not require a trial. A settlement is a resolution between disputing parties and can be reached before court action begins if the settlement is accepted.
The majority of cases are decided by a settlement. NBC has a strong incentive to settle to avoid the costs of legal fees, finding witnesses, etc., and the time and the stress associated with a trial. Many cases are settled this way. NOT because there is substance, but because it is just easier to pay someone to shut up than it is to take it to trial.
The one good thing here is that often in controversial cases, it may be written into a settlement that both sides keep its contents and all other information relevant to the case confidential, and/or that one of the parties (usually the one being sued) does not, by agreeing to the settlement, admit to any fault or wrongdoing in the underlying issue. Therefore, GZ cannot use a settlement to further his agenda – although if it becomes public that there was a settlement, there are those of public opinion who do not understand the process and may assume otherwise, regardless if they are told that a settlement does not admit to fault or wrongdoing.
And considering what happened, I do think it is very possible for GZ to get a settlement – if nothing more than to just shut him up and keep it out of court, which is what settlements are often about. It is like swatting a fly that has become a nuisance, and people have won settlements on much less than what GZ is claiming.
This, as you say, is probably the very reason MOM believed it worth the gamble. I’m of the opinion, however, that his claim isn’t worth very much money. That, leads me to believe that it will be difficult to find a compromise to settle upon. A paltry few thousand won’t help MOM much, but more than that, NBC and/or their insurers, may be unwilling to pay.
Thought the terms may be kept secret, the case is so high profile, it certainly would be noticed if there was a sudden bump in defense spending. Leading people to speculate that the settlement was large.
My guess is that NBC will give GZ little or nothing despite the editing debacle unless he’s exonerated of a crime.
“NBC and/or their insurers, may be unwilling to pay.”
I would be very upset if they pay anything to George Zimmerman and I believe there are a lot of others who would be as well. The editors condensed GZ’s words on the phone call to the dispatcher, they didn’t make them up.
You raise a valid point.
Insurance companies use the term “nuisance value” to describe how much money they are willing to offer to settle a claim that lacks any merit. That value used to be $5,000 back when I was still practicing law. They were willing to offer that much money to make the case go away because they knew it would cost the company more than that amount to involve their lawyers to get the claim dismissed.
The insurance companies authorized their claims adjusters to settle claims for that amount whether or not they had any merit.
A lot of big box law firms that specialize in handling high volume plaintiff’s personal injury cases encourage their lawyers to settle cases quickly for the nuisance value before filing a lawsuit so that they can collect their fee out of the settlement proceeds and close the case with minimal time and effort expended. They make their money from the high volume of cases they handle.
I have often wondered what percentage of their cases are settled for less money than they are worth.
I believe that any lawyer who emphasizes processing a high volume of cases as quickly as possible with the least amount of effort deserves to be called a “bottom feeder.”
“They were willing to offer that much money to make the case go away because they knew it would cost the company more than that amount to involve their lawyers to get the claim dismissed. The insurance companies authorized their claims adjusters to settle claims for that amount whether or not they had any merit.”
I get that it costs more than it is worth to go to court and it would be in a company’s best interest to settle, but in GZ case isn’t kind of tricky for NBC to not fight the charges made against them by Zimmerman Team considering the criminal trial, public reaction, etc?
If Zimmerman files a lawsuit against NBC, I believe one might reasonably characterize it as a frivolous lawsuit because he cannot prove that the conduct of its employees caused him to suffer an identifiable harm that can be compensated with money damages. Since that is a necessary element he would have to allege in his complaint in order to survive a motion to dismiss for failing to state a claim upon which relief can be granted pursuant to Rule 12(b)(6), I doubt that a lawyer would agree to take his case.
Moreover, the typical fee for representing a client in a personal injury case is a percentage of the final award, whether obtained by settlement or a favorable judgment at trial. Lawyers call it a contingency fee agreement because the client does not have to pay any money up front and the lawyer’s fee is contingent on the lawyer obtaining a favorable outcome. The payment to the lawyer is deducted from the amount obtained by settlement or judgment and the residual goes to the client.
Because lawyers assume the risk that they will not be compensated for time spent working the case with this type of fee, they are reluctant to commit to representing a client unless they are reasonably certain they will not only win the case in the usual sense of that word, but they also will win a substantial amount of money that the defendant can afford to pay. This is what they mean when they say they need a defendant with “deep pockets” before they will agree to take the case. I do not believe NBC’s ability to pay will be a concern in Zimmerman’s case. However, the likelihood of prevailing on the merits of the claim and the amount of damages that might be awarded to compensate the harm constitute two major issues of uncertainty that would cause most lawyers to thank Mr. Zimmerman for contacting the lawyer regarding the case, wish him luck, and show him to the door.
@Rachel
I can see your point and I feel an NBC lawyer could simply write up a motion for a summary judgement to throw it out because it is a truly frivolous suit…
On top, I feel, it is a value or reputation that NBC would want to uphold and having a headline “NBC gives in to killer of Trayvon, George Zimmerman” would be fatal to their company and face and value. I can see the lawsuit costing a lot of money but the lawyers for NBC could simply show the judge in their motion why it is not worth the weight to go to trial, because I truly feel they can not prove their case against NBC and therefore do not have to waste their time. But if push comes to shove, the headline “NBC stands up to killer of Trayvon, Zimmerman, against their lawsuit” it rings to the righteousness of the people and NBC gets to keep their face. Losing reputation would lose them more money in the end, while a totally winnable defense against Zimmerman, and a countersue, would ensure not great losses and NBC keeps their reputation intact…
Again, I am not NBC but by simply settling they could come across like that and I personally do not feel NBC did anything wrong at all, nor did their employees. I felt that the employees may have gotten the tape delivered to them that way, or, they were editing it for the show to fit its format, or they did not edit it properly. In the end, Zimmerman’s statements remained the same without any change to the meaning. With or without the edit, it will be hard to prove how that damaged Zimmerman, why Zimmerman should be held as credible, and how the statement is false because with the edit when Zimmerman is still identifying the race of the person he stalked and killed.
I am convinced the press release saying GZ is “considering” suing NBC is no more than PR, and attempt to influence the jury pool. The chances of GZ winning such a case are infinitesimal. Not only would NBC spend any amount of money to avoid a precedent like this being set (even an out of court settlement would open floodgates), but they would be bolstered by amicus briefs from every broadcast news organization, various academic associations, famous documentary filmmakers, the ACLU etc., and no doubt significant litigation support as well.
This is just the GZ camp woofing while GZ is still free to run his mouth saying stupid shit, and Rene Stutzman is still put it in the Sentinal from time to time.
whonoze says: I am convinced the press release saying GZ is “considering” suing NBC is no more than PR, and attempt to influence the jury pool.
I believe it is more MOM BS to raise funds for himself (defense). This “consideration” will rally the supporters to send funds. Of course if it influences the jury pool, MOM’s “considering” suing NBC can’t hurt.
I can only hope this Zimmerman team is exposed for the frauds and liars they are in a jury trial. They are disgusting, starting with George, his family, “friends” and his attorney.
GZ supporters have railed on for months about how GZ is going to sue everyone responsible for his dilemma and have a nice life when the case is resolved. So of course he’s going to try to sue NBC, or at least threaten, in order to keep those donations trickling in.The timing suggests the NBC threat is mostly about attracting donations and the hope of getting a nuisance settlement, because how can someone with an M2 charge expect to get more than that until they’ve been cleared of the crime?
I really appreciated the perspective of a web site I was looking at yesterday. The article discussed the possible parole of a longtime prisoner of the Charles Manson murders. Apparently, he served a very long sentence, although he was just a spectator and not a participant in any of the infamous murders. Accompanying the article was a series of click-through photos showing the most infamous vigilantes in American history. Guess who was number one? Happy birthday, Georgy. Here’s one for the history book, you murderous bastid.
Ok so my brother took a plea he didn’t no what to do he was innocent and he paid for an attorney and he thought he was looking out for his best entrust but I think he was lazy and selfish he told him to take a pkea or he was going to prison my brothter can’t read and has some problems but that was him having Faith in the system so now what can I do to help him leave it to the system well are mom has cancer and she don’t have much longer and they took an innocent person away from there sick mother and do you rilly think the system gives a crap if they did they do a better job I can have all the Faith in the world but it want make a difference this country not free it’s wrong what kind of law do we have any more. And Faith I had it when I was small my dad was charged with raping my sister and didn’t spend time in jail only had probation but was still living in are house he would best us so bad and the system didn’t do anything d.c.f would come some would call and report abuse and they would sit us on the couch with him write there and questing us we new we would get best if we told ya good system
I am very sorry to hear your story.
I am even more sorry that I cannot help you because I no longer practice law.
Welcome to my blog.