I have already described the process of jury selection in a previous article, so I will not repeat it here. Nevertheless, I cannot leave that subject behind without reemphasizing Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79 (1986).
In Batson, the SCOTUS announced a new rule prohibiting the prosecution from using its peremptory challenges to selectively exclude African Americans from serving on juries deciding cases with African American defendants. Until the SCOTUS decided Batson, prosecutors were not required to provide a reason for exercising any peremptory challenge. That finally changed with Batson when the Court held that the practice violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
The SCOTUS has since extended the Batson Rule to prohibit the use of peremptory challenges by either side to selectively exclude potential jurors on the basis of gender amd religious affiliation.
Under Batson and its progeny, prosecutors and defense counsel, if challenged, will be required to explain why their apparent selective exclusion of a suspect class of jurors is not race, gender, or religious based.
They better have a good reason as Texas prosecutors found out in Miller-El v. Cockrell, 537 U.S. 322 (2003). In that case the prosecutors claimed reasons other than race led them to exclude African American jurors. The SCOTUS rejected that claim with an analysis of the entire jury selection process establishing that the prosecutors selectively used those excuses to only exclude African American jurors.
I encourage each of you to read this landmark case and Miller-El, not only for their importance in their own right but to better understand the jury selection process that will take place in the Zimmerman case.
I expect the prosecution will challenge every peremptory challenge that the defense uses to disqualify African Americans and women. I expect the defense will challenge every prosecution peremptory challenge of Christian fundamentalists who might believe Zimmerman’s idea of God’s Plan.
[If the links do not work, go to Google Scholar and enter the names of the cases]
I better get busy then and do some reading. This is going to be very interesting. Thank you.
I was actually just reading an article regarding when it is best to opt for a bench trial rather than a jury trial. From what I have read, most people that opt for a bench trial will do so because the case contains difficult legal matters or laws that an average juror would have trouble understanding. It is also my understanding that they can deny a bench trial for a defendant if they feel the bench trial will give the defendant an advantage. Professor, is this true?
@Dennis. When you have time, you might want to research the Rolando Cruz case. Cruz was accused of murder. His case is also related to the DuPage 7 case. His first two trial were jury. The third was bench. It’s a landmark case that led to Ill. Gov. Ryan seeking repeal of the death penalty in Illinois.
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/CWC/exonerations/ilcruzchart.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolando_Cruz_case
I would never opt for a bench trial instead of a jury trial unless I had no defense at all.
Following….
following…..
Professor, I have a comment with 2 links that is awaiting moderation.
Yee olde perfesser was in dream land when you posted your comment. The software held up your post and I have now liberated it.
Thank you my dear Sir!
Professor, any thoughts on MOM seeking a change of venue?
You just gave me an idea for a new post today.
Basically, the answer is “Yes.”
I will explain the process later.
@Xena,
I can see this happening. I remember a pretty high-profile case where I live and a change of venue was granted. The incident involved police officers and they were subsequently acquitted.
I was waiting for Mr. Mark Omara to apply for a change of venue. I feel if he obtains it Zimmerman will be aquitted of all charges. Few in a conservative group will find this criminal guilty. So sad…
Xena, I don’t know about the professor, but were I the judge in this case, I would absolutely deny that motion given the level of pretrial publicity created by the defense.
Ahhh. So the defense has dug its own ditch for a change of venue. IC. Also heard that Osterman was on Fox News last night and contradicted GZ about his knowledge of SYG.
There is a change of venue? Jury selection will be tough. This case is actually worldwide, mentioned in multiple languages. Its fine giving a fair trial, but the jury should understand law, & be objective. Thats all I care about. This kid needs justice.
It just seems to me that given the amount of attention the defense(including the defendant himself) has brought upon itself via the Internet and national tv appearances, a request for change of venue based upon pretrial publicity would be disingenuous.
You mean they lied !! I’m shocked !! So Z (I still refuse to type his name) said he did not know about the SYG law, which I heard him say, despite that 7 year attendance in a 2 year Criminal Justice course. Then his main man Osterman says he did know about that law.
Really……..I wish they’d make up their minds on these things. It does get confusing sorting out all the lies.
But can a motion be denied on that basis? Regardless if the defense created the pretrial publicity, in the interest of justice, the defendant is still entitled to due process and a fair and impartial jury (or at least as fair and as impartial as he can get).
However, the pretrial publicity has not been confined to only that one place – it has been nationwide, so in that respect I could see it denied – like would it really be any better anywhere else? Is there any state, county or city that does not get Hannity, Dr. Phil, The View, etc?
Sorry to butt in – I too await the professor’s answer.
It still amazes me how MOM made allegations of the jury pool being tainted by the release of documents, then he goes on Hannity with GZ, and GZ re-activates his website begging for money.
It seems as though jury selection should be conducted to weed out those who donated to him.
Omara can’t make jury tainting allegations with the document releases as the jury is supposed to decide based on the evidence, hence, they based it on the evidence.
The jury selection def needs to weed out any Conservative Treehorses, Zimmerman supporters, white supremacists, crazy people…
Just plain sane objective normal people, who can understand, need to be there…
Since it is the 1st and 6th Amendments that sometimes come into conflict in high profile cases like this, I can understand a defendant’s request for a change of venue when the source of publicity has been exclusive to media outlets w/o the participation of the defendant. But when the defendant has actively participated in generating the publicity by appearing on national television, has produced videos and has set up a website to solicit funds and exchange information with the public, I doubt very seriously and appellate court would overturn a lower court ruling that denies a chance of venue.
However, that is my personal opinion and the professor might very well tell me my assumption is wrong.
Professor, I am wondering about your thoughts about how jurors are called for jury duty to begin with. I believe in many states, jurors are called based upon drivers licenses, where in others, it is voter registration. I am fairly certain voter registration is used to call federal grand and petit juries. Do you favor one process over the other? Also, what is your thinking on the issue of creating professional juries?
I am absolutely opposed to professional juries.
I support the widest and most inclusive process of selecting people for jury service.
A combination of driver’s licences and voter registration is ideal.
George Zimmerman’s friends in book: ‘Guilty or innocent, he will lose’
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-18/news/os-george-zimmerman-osterman-book-20120918_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-shellie-zimmerman
Osterman is full of lies too
He says “I wrote it to calm desire for revenge on Zimmerman..”
Then he sells the book for $14.99 LOL
be real, Osterman wanted to take advantage of the incident but failed miserably
Osterman is doing nothing more than promoting GZ’s lies. He can’t get his “facts” in chronological order. The story didn’t make it out of the local news in Florida until mid-March. The GZ of the 2005 mugshot looks nothing like the GZ who reported to the jail on April 2012. How would the New Black Panthers or anyone not personally familiar with GZ know what he looked like? It compels me even more to believe that GZ was hiding from someone he personally knew.
Have you read the info about the publisher of Osterman’s book?
Tate Publishing in Texas. Seems that they have inside problems stemming from their plan to outsource to the Phillippines. At first I thought that it was self published, but I suppose that Tate Publishing is a step above self-publishing. Just one step.
http://jimromenesko.com/2012/06/06/boss-fires-25-employees-after-praying-with-them-at-staff-meeting/
@jun,
I really believe that they are blowing this “revenge” angle up to the max. I am also sure they believe that if there is an acquittal, people (mostly Black people) are going to riot and act ig’nant. It’s offensive to not only Black people but all the individuals who have shown support on behalf of justice for Trayvon. The marches and protests were peaceful. Even the whole “most hated man in America” is inflammatory. According to who?
$14.99? LOL!!! I have chosen to give my $14.99 to the man on the corner in need of a good meal…
How do they think lying outright helps. His claim that LE told them the voice match was a 90 to 95 % match of Z is outrageous. And most of his filth does not even match what Z stated to the police in any of his lies, er, versions.
One of the key aspects that attracts me to this case (in a bad way), similar to my attraction to the Casey Anthony case, is all the lying, by the defendant, family and friends. I am baffled as to how they have gotten away with it. The most hated woman in America (dubbed by most) got away with it. The most hated man in America (dubbed by some) may get away with it. What in the world? If average Americans could let such hated, obviously guilty people get away, what does that say about the state of our society?
In my personal life, I also see people getting away with more and more lying and more and more character assassination. Sadly, I find myself trying to understand more about lying. There are so many types of lying. For example, the closest lie to the 90 to 95% voice match lie that I can think of is mistaking a 4 for a 9. But, that’s not actually even close. I have so much to learn.
I don’t believe it’s unusual for family members to lie to protect another family member. Based on my experience trying cases for 30 years, I believe that is a common occurrence.
The most effective cross examination of a close family member is to ask only one question. For example, after a mother has provided her son with an alibi, this question is quite effective:
“You’re the defendant’s mother, aren’t you?”
“In an interview Tuesday, Mark Osterman told the Sentinel he wrote the book hoping to “calm the public’s desire for revenge against George … we’re doing nothing but trying to help George and Shellie and put them in a better light.”
Revenge? There has been calm among those seeking justice since GZ was arrested. I have not read one comment from any supporter of justice saying to kill GZ. OTOH, I’ve read numerous comments by GZ’s fans saying to dig Trayvon up and shoot him again.
Had GZ not taken the stand at his first bond hearing and lied about Trayvon’s age and whether he was armed, the public would not have gotten an actual view of GZ the liar.
Had he not spoken in code with Shellie about transferring the donated money, paid off his pre-Feb. 26th debts, and hid his active passport, the public may not have formed an opinion that GZ is a liar, a con artist, and a thief.
Had Shellie not misrepresented her knowledge of the donated money to the court, the public may not have formed an opinion that she is a liar and a con artist.
Nothing that Osterman says or writes can erase the Zimmerman’s own actions and words.
Exactly. To your 2nd paragraph. I was made aware of this in NJ in late ? March via an e-mail that stated what was known and would I sign the petition for an investigation. I have yet to see any post from what we call “Team Trayvon” that seeks anything BUT a fair trial at this point. The Zidiots say such vile hate laced filth against all that are not pro – Z.
Z is a pathological liar and that will, in part, be his undoing. I joke about this on the other site.
Officer “….are you aware of Miranda…”
Z “…..um, well…………Oh, no…..her name is SheLie”
and
Officer “…..you have the right to remain silent….”
Z “….um…….why would I do that………..I have so much to tell ya…”
The truth is that it seems the only thing we know he didn’t lie about was when he said “……..then I got out of my truck…”
The truth is that it seems the only thing we know he didn’t lie about was when he said “……..then I got out of my truck…”
…And I shot him.
If the defense intends to bar Blacks and women, it will not happen. With the prosecutors barring Christian fundamentalists, if that is even the case (I am guessing humor from Freddy), at least the prosecution has a strong argument as they have a belief system in place which may create bias. A black person or a woman, doesnt have a set belief in place, that can be categorized, with that category of humans, therefore, it is more objective. Personally, I feel it would mess with Zimmerman’s head if all jurors were black, mexican, women, & arabs seeing as those groups are the ones targeted by Zimmerman.
I agree that having a large number of minorities would make his head explode. However, he brought this on himself. Fair…..works in very strange ways. 12 black women all employed as Sabrina is, mothers of teens would work. This from a 56 year old white male.
Lmao… They could actually do that, as long as the jurors are found to be objective and fair.
Except in Florida, the jury will be of 6, not 12.
evidence dump today @ 10am florida time per Orlando Sentinel
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-19/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-new-20120919_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-cell-phone-records
posted 6:03 am
follow
More reading for those interested.
The U.S. Supreme Court further held the Miller-El ruling in Snyder v. Louisiana. However, it recently ruled a bit differently in Rivera v. Illinois. In that case, the trial judge dismissed the defense’s peremptory challenge based on his opinion that it was discriminatory in nature and violated Batson. Rivera was later found guilty. The defense filed an appeal on the grounds that the judge erred in dismissing the challenge. The Illinois Supreme Court agreed that the trial judge erred, but found it to be a “harmless error.” The U.S. Supreme Court agreed unanimously with the Illinois Supreme Court.
You know I have been really thinking about something and while we wait on the doc dump I am going to say it. There is a civil suit that was won against a woman who posted on a blog. She used many names as a poster. Would even make a name and talk to herself. The person she defamed hired an attorney and she was identified and her butt was hauled into court and sued. The man she defamed won a 400,000 dollar suit against her. You can google it at the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
The sites you all keep talking about that people are posting horrific things against Trayvon best be watching the attorneys, Al Sharpton, & Jessie Jackson. Trayvon’s parents have attorneys for a reason. And, more and more people are being brought to court for libel against people in blogs.
All it took was a judges order to subpoena her ISP and imagine finding out that she made many names and talked to herself all in defaming this man. This man did not even know her. So, all those who are posting such vile things against Trayvon best be watching what they say.
Gz has been charged in a court of law. So has Shellie. Other family members have stepped forth with interviews and put themselves out for scrutiny. Trayvon Martin, on the other hand, is a victim and his family and friends are not blogging away or going on national TV to attack Gz. They have every right to he killed their beloved teenaged son.
So, as bloggers spitting out untruths and calling that child vile names had best be watching. It is wrong that an innocent child in America was shot by someone who had no business even following him. There is evidence via a very reliable source that he was scared and ran from the creepy guy following him. There is evidence Gz admitted Trayvon ran and he got out of his truck and was following him. POINT BLANK.
If it had been me, when the creepy man came up to me in that dark pathway I would have hit him with my purse, or anything I had in my hands and tried to run as I screamed for help. As Dee Dee said Trayvon did not have time to. As the old creepy man answered Trayvon’s question of “Why are you following me”, with “What are you doing here?”…….once that was said to me in a menacing voice I would have hit and run while screaming “help me”. Trayvon did not have this chance.
From what you all have described these people do not have enough brains to read and watch and see the facts that will be shown in a court of law. But, their very names and addresses can easily be obtained. And, I, for one would gladly donate towards the family of Trayvon to pursue them. In America parents stand up for their children and I watched Trayvon’s mother crying saying she wants her son’s legacy to live on. Those who talk trash about one of our American teens need to be called out publicly. This is what justice and the American system is all about.
Pisses me off everytime I read here things you guys say is going on. And it just plumb ain’t right!
hinkster4ever I have a slight correction to make to your point. TM did have the opportunity to run and yell for help, as you would have. Dee Dee described that TM lost GZ at some point, so there was this opportunity. The law didn’t require him to run and yell for help to show fear, though, so as to be later characterized as an innocent victim.
If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that because Trayvon lost GZ at some point, that Trayvon was still suppose to run and yell for help? Do you hold GZ accountable for leaving his truck and running far away from it to follow Trayvon?
Xena you have not understood correctly. I said he had the opportunity, but was not required to do so to be considered an innocent victim.
Sorry for misunderstanding. I suppose what is puzzling is how you came to the conclusion that Trayvon had opportunity to run? He had ran. It was out of breathe from running. Evidently, he ran to a section where no vehicle could come. How was Trayvon suppose to know that GZ would follow him on foot?
Xena good question. TM moved into the pathway. GZ followed after. How could TM know GZ would follow? He probably didn’t suspect he would and was startled when he initially saw GZ enter the pathway.
@ DSal,
When Trayvon “ran”, “he ran” to the place cars could not enter. When Trayvon “ran” Zimmerman was still in his car. Trayvon had no reason to believe that Zimmerman would get out of the said car to follow him on foot. Consequently he (Trayvon) had also no reason to do the things you said he had the opportunity to do, including sprinting straight home, because of the apparent lack of need to do so. By running to where “he ran” to, Trayvon effectively thought that the creepy episode was finally over. But he was mistaken. Badly mistaken.
DSal, I’m sorry but your comments interject things without explanation. For instance, you have said “… when he initially saw GZ enter the pathway.” How do you know Trayvon saw GZ enter the “pathway”? Remember, it was dark.
Oops. “It was out of breathe from running.” S/B He was out of breathe from running. Time for a cup of coffee and a nap.
Xena another good question. I think TM was hiding from fear. It doesn’t make sense that he would have continued to run or walk away and still be near the beginning of the pathway when they finally encountered each other. I think he saw GZ enter and it scared him and he waited for GZ to leave. But GZ came back with a flashlight on after hanging up the call with the dispatcher.
In addition to not having any reason to believe that the creepy man following him in a vehicle would get out of the vehicle and follow him on foot in the rain, TM had another good reason to stop before he reached the safety of Brandi Green’s townhome. That reason was Dee Dee’s phone call. He wanted privacy and he was willing to stand outside in the rain in order to have it.
I don’t know what the temperature was, but I’ll bet he was shivering and cold.
Hormones affect a teenager’s judgment. I remember some of the stupid stuff I did at that age to get and maintain a girl’s attention. Plus, he was lonely away from his friends in the Big City and she was his source of information regarding what they were doing during his 10 day banishment.
The smart thing for him to have done would have been to never lose sight of the creepy man, but the lad was . . . distracted.
As they are wont to do, the Zimbot Borg have mischaracterized typical teenage behavior into the actions of a Black Gangsta from Hell sucking Zimmerman into an elaborate ambush so that he could jump him and kill him with his bare hands while uttering B-movie dialogue from the late 80s and early 90s.
I still find it almost impossible to believe that anyone could fall for that crap.
Dsal said: “hinkster4ever I have a slight correction to make to your point. TM did have the opportunity to run and yell for help, as you would have. Dee Dee described that TM lost GZ at some point, so there was this opportunity. The law didn’t require him to run and yell for help to show fear, though, so as to be later characterized as an innocent victim.”
you contradict yourself, if he thought he lost him:
1. why would he yell and risk revealing his location, negating the actual strategy of evading and hiding.
2. if he yelled and anyone came out, while his stalker is not there, does he risk:
a. appearing to cry wolf?
b. being looked at and treated once again like a criminal?
Trayvon had no idea what kind of depraved nut job was following him. had he understood that this was a delusional wannabe cop with a gun looking for a reason to use it, who had a history of harassing his neighbor’s kids and of calling the police multiple times and needlessly, that this was someone who had just sat in his car and wrongfully vilified him to the police, called him an asshole and a punk/coon (I fucking know what I heard), he would have ran right away, he would have screamed while running, he would have knocked on several doors while running. But he did not know that and you see he was only 17, so it is understandable that he did not know what kind of evil assholes lurk in the world, that his survival calculus was not quite as adept as a full grown adult, like a 28 year old.
So you see Trayvon is an innocent victim because EVERYTHING HE DID WAS INNOCENT.
@ DSal,
“I think TM was hiding from fear.”
Question to you:
(a) how do you know Trayvon was hiding?
(b) Where exactly was Trayvon hiding?
“I think he saw GZ enter and it scared him and he waited for GZ to leave. But GZ came back with a flashlight on after hanging up the call with the dispatcher”.
Question to you:
(a) where exactly was GZ when “he hang up the call with the dispatcher”?
(b) If you do not know where GZ was located at when he “hang up the call with the dispatcher, how can you say what Trayvon did- or did not see.
(c) How can you go from ”Trayvon was hiding” to “he saw GZ and waited for GZ to leave”? Which is it – was “Trayvon hiding” or did “he saw GZ and waited for him to leave”?
(d) What do you mean by “GZ came back”, came back where?
I hope you would like to explain yourself a little more.
SearchingMind the quick and dirty is that I don’t really know most of the answers. I said I think. What can you say you know about those minutes? I also think it would be possible for someone to hide and watch at the same time. I don’t see a problem with these happening simultaneously. I’m using GZ’s statement that he walked passed the beginning of the pathway and then started back toward his vehicle to support “GZ came back.” I also said it doesn’t make sense that TM would continue running or walking away and still end up near the beginning of the pathway.
What are your thoughts? Do you think TM kept walking away? Where was he when he realized GZ was following him again? How did they get back to the beginning of the pathway?
Tzar I didn’t contradict myself. I said he had the opportunity, but was not required to do so. This is now 3 times I’ve had to spell this out when it was said the first time. TM would be innocent whether he ran and yelled for help or not. That does not mean he didn’t have the opportunity to.
Dsa saidl: “Tzar I didn’t contradict myself. I said he had the opportunity, but was not required to do so. This is now 3 times I’ve had to spell this out when it was said the first time. TM would be innocent whether he ran and yelled for help or not. That does not mean he didn’t have the opportunity to.”
We all know he had the opportunity, we even know that he actually called for help, we even have audio of it. What’s your point in stating the obvious? Your correction of hinkster is unwarranted, his comment was referring to the time between Trayvon realizing that Zimmerman was still pursuing and the moment at which Zimmerman was so close that Trayvon had to engage him and ask him why he was following him.
Tzar I thought it was warranted. There’s no sense in making off the cuff statements that could be used as ammo against. I can’t help it if you disagree. Is that not allowed here?
“TM did have the opportunity to run and yell for help, as you would have. Dee Dee described that TM lost GZ at some point, so there was this opportunity. The law didn’t require him to run and yell for help to show fear, though, so as to be later characterized as an innocent victim.”
Huh? DD was only telling us what TM told her. Why would TM run, or call for help if he thought the whole thing was over? All he would do is walk home and tell his father later that night or in the morning. But the fact of the matter is, TM only thought it was over, because he didn’t see GZ around anymore. GZ was still on the hunt, he just hadn’t revealed himself yet.
Well stated. On one of the other sites, when they reach an epic proportion of vile hatred for anything pro Trayvon I’ll respond and add this. “is that you George” or SheLie or one of his inner circle. To this minute, there was never any denial. Many times that profile is removed and a new one appears that has the same style avatar, name and writing style. I have no doubt that some of these could be Z and his posse.
They make lies up in wholesale fashion and post the same lies over and over as if lying will make it fact. Gee……doesn’t Z do that?? Sickening.
Of course GZ supporters think GZ will be suing everyone in sight after he’s found innocent . . .
Yep, even those immune from law suits. But know what’s really funny? The same ones who say GZ is going to sue the Martins, also say that the Martins are on welfare. Way to go! Sue someone who you can’t collect a dime from.
The reason I said Trayvon DID NOT have a chance to run is because the evidence from DeeDee on the phone is that IMMEDIATELY after George said “What are you doing here”……the ear plugs were gone off Trayvon’s ears and hit the ground.
If you use earphones + mic…you can tell when someone’s mic IS MOVED AWAY FROM their nose and mouth. And then she hears something….wasn’t it “get off get off and the phone went dead.
Evidence. Not something I made up in my mind and decided to write. I go by evidence and the plain truth. This girl ain’t lying folks……so says this potential juror.
After reading some information on the Miller-El case I found myself thinking about Goerge Stinney who at the age of 14 y/o was put to death in S.C. 1944 for the questionable murder of two “white’ girls. It would be priceless to sit in on the jury selection in the GZ case.
Breaking
Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
New GeorgeZImmerman evidence: DNA tests on GZ’s gun & holster didn’t match TrayvonMartin. One excluded TM, other samples no determination.
awesome!
Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
New #GeorgeZimmerman evidence: Witness sketch has “black shirt” on top, “red shirt” on bottom
There’s another witness sketch that has a man with a white shirt on top.
@ DSal,
I really hope and pray that you are here to seek the truth and not to defend pre-held die-hard notions at all cost. One who seeks the truth is not selective in his quest to find it. One who is selective in his quest to find the truth does not seek the truth. Such a fellow is intellectually dishonest. I hope and pray that you would be able to say to yourself the following: ‘I do not care about Zimmerman or Trayvon. I must concentrate on the evidence and let the totality of evidence decide – no matter whose ox is gored.
SearchingMind likewise.
I can see what we went through on this blog happening again… All troys this blog will not tolerate disrespect to our Professor and family and all students.
You are welcome to engage in productive discussions. Have a nice evening…
The sketches are so badly drawn. Most importantly though is the position down the path. It proves Zimmerman lying. The only person I read that claimed red on bottom was Witness 6 and that guy is full of crap and lied many times.
Wouldn’t it be fascinating to have a jury impanelled where neither the prosecution nor the defense knew the age, sex, or race of the jurors and were compelled to select the jury based solely upon their answers to questions posed? Yes, I know that isn’t really feasible, but it would be interesting to see the makeup of a jury without those factors entering the equation.
I did a bit of “census diving” to get a snapshot of Seminole County (2010):
The total population is about 414,000
About 82.8% white
About 9.4% black
About 15.6% Hispanic ethnicity
Average age about 40
Even split between male and female
70.3% white collar
65% post high school education at some level
60.8% owner occupied housing
9.6% unemployment
It would seem that statistically speaking (with jurors called at random from the drivers license/state ID database) there should be an equal number of males and females called, many will be around 40, the majority will be white collar workers with formal post high school education and the majority summoned will be white.
They should end up with at least 1 black juror and 1 with Hispanic Ethnicity, with an equal division of fairly well educated males and females if the jury reflects the population.
Vicky your efforts may be for naught. If there is a change of venue, Florida law requires the demographics to closely match, but the method of selecting a jury is different in other districts.
DSal, if the demographics closely match, then the process used to summon jurors should not matter, statistically speaking, All jurors summoned must posses a valid Florida State ID or Drivers License per state law, and I believe the process in Florida (the use of that database) is uniform.
Vicky it’s not. Some districts use random selection from voter rolls.
Below is a link for Florida law regarding the generation of jury lists and the process used to select/summon jurors.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0040/SEC011.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0040-%3ESection%20011#0040.011
I think you’re on to something. Perhaps juries should be based on questionaires or recorded interviews w/o visuals.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-19/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-new-20120919_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-cell-phone-records
An FDLE lab technician checked samples from the gun’s grip and found no evidence that Trayvon had handled it. Technicians testing other parts of the gun and holster were only able to definitively identify Zimmerman, the records show.
That’s important because Zimmerman told police he opened fire only after the teenger reached for the gun that Zimmerman wore in a holster on his waist. The DNA findings suggest there’s no evidence that Travyon touched the gun.
.
Just like the lab reports determined that no blood or DNA foreign to Trayvon was on his hands. GZ has a lot of ‘plaining to do to support his story.
IIRC Didn’t George say he felt Trayvon’s hand going down his body towards the gun. Did George ever say Trayvon touched the holster or gun? I cannot remember George has told things so many different ways….but, I had it in my mind there would be no DNA of Trayvon’s found beforehand for some reason. (Hope I am remembering wrong!).
Also the sketch of 2 figures as stickmen…..man wearing black on top…man wearing red on bottom. Don’t we have other witnesses saying the opposite?
hinkster4ever I think you’re remembering right, unfortunately. But, Jeff Weiner has said that there is DNA on the holster and the grip. TM’s been excluded from the grip and the holster sample cant be determined.
Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
New #GeorgeZimmerman evidence includes DNA testing. 2 profiles found on gun grip, 1 is GZ. #TrayvonMartin EXCLUDED as other DNA profile.
Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
New #GeorgeZImmerman evidence: DNA tests on GZ’s gun & holster didn’t match #TrayvonMartin. One excluded TM, other samples no determination.
I seem to recall in one of Z’s early police interviews he stated point blank that he and Trayvon were struggling with the gun or control of it. He definitely alluded to Trayvon having touched it by trying to get the gun despite the fact it was hidden behind his butt, inside his pants with a shirt and a jacket on.
Riddle me this racerrodig:
first some math:
IF
Zimmerman had to lower his voice on the NEN because he did not “know where this kid is” + Zimmerman claimed this “kid” was reaching in his waistband and on drugs and up to no good, then
Then
1. Why would Zimmerman go out of his car with his gun so inaccessible? behind his butt, in his pants, under his shirt, under his closed jacket?
2. if Zimmerman jacket was closed why is there blood splatter on the shirt he wore underneath? Doc dump from today, p.139
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-FLDE-bio-evidence-2-0919.pdf
(PS: why would one partially open your jacket in the rain? ans: one would not)
I’m not sure an open jacket is determinative of anything. I rarely zip up my jacket, rain or shine. If it’s really cold and blowy, I do (mid-winter w/ snow or sleet).
GZ’s claim that he believed that TM was reaching for his gun/TM sliding his hand down his side (who would start from there anyway) for his gun is so incredulous. How would TM even know that GZ had a gun if TM was positioned as GZ states? Not only that, wouldn’t it had occurred to TM the possibility of this strange man being armed (hence in part of his running away), but yet would sit and wait for him and attack circa Boyz n The Hood early 90′s style,with no weapon mind y’all again, the way GZ claims?
IMO, there are 2 reasons why it is important to know whether GZ’s jacket was open. Both reasons are connected. The first is that GZ said his jacket raised up as he shimmied to the grass. That leads to reason 2; i.e., if the jacket were open, it would not conceal his gun anyway. GZ’s jacket was not a quarter-length jacket but waist length.
@racerrodig
IIRC, it was Papa Zim who said that GZ struggled with Trayvon for the gun.
Exactly, Xena.Zimmerman has indeed a lot of explaining to do!
The lack of Zimmerman’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands tell me two things:
(a) Trayvon’s hands NEVER came into contact with Zimmerman’s face and head;
(b) THERE WAS NO FIGHT!
I’m there with you. There was NO fight.
Actually, they didn’t test Trayvon’s hands for GZ DNA. They tested his fingernail clippings. At least it doesn’t show up in the DNA stuff I just looked at. If you’ve seen it, please post a link.
Another piece of evidence to seal Zimmerman’s fate. It is very unlikely for someone to touch something and not leave DNA. Therefore, I am inclined to believe that Martin never touched the gun. Zimmerman was a bouncer at one point and his weight and height make it almost impossible for Martin to overpower him. Even Martin’s step-brother is bigger than Trayvon.
An interesting thought: they did not specify if they checked for Martin’s fingerprints or not. I don’t believe his prints will be found on the weapon.
George pack your suitcase. Its time to go to jail….
For life!
I don’t think the actual forensics of DNA on the gun rule out George’s story, because he never claimed Trayvon actually REACHED and grabbed his gun, just that he felt Trayvon’s hand going down his chest TOWARD his gun (and golly gee, that made him remember that he was armed!), so he can still make that work if it’s a matter of the DNA-on-the-gun issue. What makes George’s story impossible are the OTHER uncontrovertible facts in the physical evidence, including angle of the bullet, distance, etc. and the absence of GEORGE’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands. Trayvon was not in any aggressive physical position to George and he was never beating George’s head and face violently with his hands; just plain could not have happened. Remember, GEORGE washed his hands that night; Trayvon did not (was dead before there was a chance to wash his hands).
Lol Malisha you answered my question before I posted
.
True but it’s still good to eliminate the possiblity as it narrows GZ’s story into a smaller box and, as a plus, it’s being reported as “Breaking News” right now on MSNBC.
ks it is not accurate to say there was no TM DNA on holster. There is DNA that cannot be determined to match GZ or TM. Could be several reasons for that. Contamination is most likely. Could also be DNA from some other person. Wondering if they took DNA from Shellie to exclude her.
That’s a ridiculous argument, DSal.
Zimmerman never said TM touched the gun, so there never was any reason to suspect TM’s DNA would be on the gun.
To explain the absence of TM’s DNA by attributing it “most likely” to “contamination” is intellectually dishonest, assuming you know anything about DNA testing, or absurd, if you don’t.
Which is it?
Contamination in the context of DNA testing refers to the presence of contaminating human DNA, not dirt or something like that. TM was excluded as a source of the human DNA because the unknown evidentiary sample contained alleles that his DNA does not have and it did not contain alleles that he does have. This is why he can be excluded as a source of the DNA.
On what do you base your opinion that he may have touched the gun?
That’s fine but it’s a distinction with little practical difference. Excluded from the gun and no deterimation on the holster is a good result for the prosecution.
ks hopefully. If it was because of contamination, it neither hurts nor helps. If it is a viable DNA profile for someone they don’t have DNA for, it helps.
Mr. Leatherman you are assigning a statement to me that I didn’t make. I never said TM touched the gun. OS’s Jeff Weiner said TM was excluded from the gun and I posted his comment from twitter. He also said there was DNA on the holster that could not be determined to match or exclude TM. This is what I said could be from contamination. I also said if it is a viable DNA profile, then it could be matching another person they don’t have a DNA sample for. Your indignation is unwarranted.
You are attributing significance to vanishingly small probabilities that no one with any intellectual honesty would support and I am calling you on your bullshit.
@Professor
I agree. An example of contamination would be for foreign DNA to end up on the piece of evidence that was not there when it was being collected.
In the Amanda Knox appeal, the court room gasped when they watched the video of the CSI collecting the evidence. They found a severed bra clasp and picked it up directly with dirty gloves and even passed it around. One of the bumbling CSI idiots even dropped the thing on the ground and picked it back up.
Mr. Leatherman I don’t know why you’re making this so personal and I don’t appreciate the language. You were wrong to admonish me for something I didn’t say. I am also not giving any significance to anything. If anything, I am downplaying anything of significance about the latest evidence release. Others were saying that GZ claimed TM touched the gun and this evidence proves he didn’t. This evidence does prove he didn’t touch the gun. You said GZ never claimed he TM touched the gun and I agree. The holster shows that there is DNA on it that cannot be matched to TM and cannot exclude him. The likely reasons are contamination or the DNA matches another group of persons. The reason hasn’t been given. Human contamination is the contamination I was talking about, not dirt or anything else you mentioned.
Professor, I think you misread DSal’s post. DSal was talking about the holster. You thought the comments were about the gun.
Also, it puts a crimp in the “TM reached for…” story. There was no TM DNA on the gun and holster.
Remember GZ claimed that TM was AWARE of his gun and tried to get it but, he stopped him and pulled it and shot TM without TM touching the gun or holster at any point? Seems quite unlikely.
He (GZ) said he thought Trayvon saw it, but to my knowledge, never said he touched it or reached for it. GZ went for it because he thought Trayvon saw it. AFAIK
In his reinactment, didn’t GZ claim that he pinned TM’s hand to his (GZ’s)side with his arm to keep TM from getting to his gun? And , remarkably, he still managed to get to his gun, aim it and shoot TM all while laying on his back AFTER being supposedly beat half to death by TM.
what he is saying is that Martin had total control over him had beat him to the point of one more blow causing DEATH, YET Martin was unable to even TOUCH his gun from that close???? that Martin had total control but then suddenly was unable to even raise his hand to try to block the gun and change its direction!
his whole story is obviously utter nonsense and has been since day ONE .
Here is the problem Z has. Z claims Trayvon was on top and had Z’s arms restrained with his legs. Picture that….Now he says because Trayvon’s arms and hands are free, AND see’s an invisible gun, makes an attempt to get said hidden gun, causing Z to “remember” he’s armed ..stop and picture again..
Z now does the physically impossible pistol draw and now…..(drum roll please) how is it that Trayvon never grappled with the gun now in Z’s hand. According to Z, Trayvon was in control. There is no way on God’s green earth that any sane person can believe that story. Sorry Z….it ain’t happening.
There is no way that IF Z was able to pull his gun in any fashion with Trayvon on top that Trayvon having his hands free could not, did not, would not immediately grab for the gun and at least try to point it away. No matter what, Trayvon would have his DNA on the gun. Nope, This never happened.
Bii Taylor and racerrodig,
Yes and when GZ and/or Osterman realized how implausible his story was, GZ added a detail that made it worse. The “pinning TM’s hand with his arm” tale. The same arm/hand he used to reach for his gun, draw it, aim and shoot TM. All while laying on his back with TM on top of him, and in control of him, after being almost “dying” at the hands of TM.
Wouldn’t it also be likely for Martin to have attempted to stop Zimmerman from firing the weapon if Zimmerman’s story were true? If Martin knew Zimmerman had a weapon and saw him going for it, he wouldn’t just sit there like a mime and allow himself to be shot in the chest. That is why Zimmerman’s story is false. I think it is obvious from Martin’s screams that he was trying to break free or get away, and that is when Zimmerman shot him. Even if Martin really was beating Zimmerman’s face in, the tapes prove that Martin was shot while trying to escape his attacker. The screams also prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand in the scuffle.
Dennis,
Uh huh. TM is remarkably passive when GZ and his fans need him to be, eh? “Psycho gansta TM” is on top of GZ and totally in control of him and has almost beat him to death but yet he just allows GZ to get to his gun and shoot him. Yeah…
As one of the very few people who spent $10 to download the Osterman’s book (I really wanted to see what GZ told them), I thought you all might want to know that MO claims that Georgie told them Trayvon grabbed the gun just above the trigger, but he managed to regain control just before he shot him.
That makes sense in light of the fact that MO says he gave GZ gun retention training. So, in order to get an “Atta boy” from MO, GZ would throw in that he retained his weapon against an attempt to take it away. Fabricated of course.
Wow Vicky!!! Thanks.
“Georgie told them Trayvon grabbed the gun just above the trigger, but he managed to regain control just before he shot him.”
So Trayvon got the gun out of the holster how?
Oh, George took it out of the holster and Trayvon objected by grabbing it.
The didn’t test that part of the gun. They only tested the trigger, the grip and the slide. So the testing doesn’t prove that Trayvon didn’t touch the gun.
Thanks Hinkster. I’ve just been keeping my eye on the moving dot.
It moves: “Well I’m innocent because he bashed my head” to “Well I’m innocent because he broke my nose” to “Well I’m innocent because everybody’s lying about me” to “Well I’m innocent because I’m Hispanic” to “Well I’m innocent because God made me do it” to “Well I’m innocent; when will all this blow over so I can settle down and be rich and happy?”
Don’t forget the “Octopus Defense” …he was using his hands to cover my mouth, then he used his other hand to cover my nose so I couldn’t breathe, then he used his other hands to bash my head on the concrete, then he used his other hand to reach for my gun. That’s 6, count ‘em 6 hands. 8 if you recall as Trayvon’s actual hands have no Z DNA.
Of course he can use the “My brother is an idiot” Defense since that is his brothers interview where that was 1st stated.
All in all….it’s never GZ’s fault. Maybe they can blame me….I can’t account for my whereabouts that night at this point.
LOL @ racerrodig. Good one.
Follow
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-19/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-new-20120919_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-cell-phone-records
Also released today are records that show that on March 6, the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office was poised to release 911 calls made the night of the shooting to CBS news. They are dramatic. In one, Zimmerman describes Trayvon to a dispatcher as a suspicious black man whom he does not recognize and who is loitering in a neighborhoods that’s had a great many break-ins.
In another, a voice can be heard screaming for help then a gunshot.
The Sheriff’s Office was on the verge of releasing that information but Sanford police on March 6 told the agency not to, saying they were still part of an active criminal investigation. Trayvon’s family then sued the city of Sanford, demanding their release, and the city acquiesced, releasing them March 16.
Prosecutors today released time-stamped dispatch records, showing to the second when Zimmerman called police and when that gunshot was heard in the background of a 911 call by a neighbor.
They differ slightly from a timeline prepared by Sanford police and released several months ago. For example, the county dispatch records show that Zimmerman reported that Trayvon was running at 19:11:59, a minute 20 seconds before Sanford police indicated he reported that.
But the two sources differ by only 13 seconds on when the gunshot can be heard: Sanford police say it was at 19:17:20 vs. 19:17:07 for the county.
I apologize. I forgot the link.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-19/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-new-20120919_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-cell-phone-records
Why would there be that discrepancy? I could understand if they were both off by the same amount, but there is something here I am not understanding.
So the 2 missing minutes theory is shrinking.
Things thats making me go hmmmm…. Okay, I thought the big flashlight found that night was GZ’S…. Welp, in the latest document dump, it says belonged to a neighbor/witness.. So where’s GZ flashlight? Remember, the one he was banging on when he was chasing Trayvon? And why did the neighbor drop his flashlight? And if it wasn’t GZ’s flashlight he was banging, then what was he actually banging on? just my thoughts…
double hmmmmmm…
Maybe GZ was banging on his flashlight and after not getting it to work, knocked on a resident’s door and got a flashlight from —– John maybe???
I found an interesting article regarding Stand Your Ground. They claim that many people that go free with the SYG law have a history of violence. Just like retired FBI agent Steve Moore says, most killers display a history of violence at some point in their life. We do know that Zimmerman assaulted a fed and also beat his ex-girlfriend. Because of his violent past, it isn’t hard to believe he murder Trayvon Martin.
Here is the link to the article:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/many-killers-who-go-free-with-florida-stand-your-ground-law-have-history/1241378
That IS really interesting. Thank you.
For those of you who care about the small factual details: The new doc dump allows us to identify which 911 call came in when exactly. The deductions about these assignments I had made earlier contained a few errors. I have posted a new YouTube video with the correct identifications:
Here are the correct start times:
7:16:11 Jennifer W11
7:16:41 W3 (says she saw a ‘white shirt’)
7:17:06 ‘The Teacher” W18
7:17:15 John W6
7:17:54 Mary Cutcher
7:18:00 W19
7:19:04 Austin Green’s sister
The most significant of my mistaken deductions was placing the call from ‘John’ (witness 6) significantly later than it actually occurred. I stand corrected, and I apologize for any negative inferences that may have been drawn by myself or others on the basis of suspecting it took an unusually long time for him to call 911.
Listening again to that final heartrending scream, I’d venture that it’s definitely the scream of someone who’s confronted with a firearm and knows they’re highly likely to get shot.
Some sobering and yet not surprising statistics.
racerrogdig wrote,
“You mean they lied !! I’m shocked !!”
LOL. We all know he lied. He believes that an admission of knowing SYG is self-incriminating or something. It’s just beyond ridiculous; we all know he knows, he has to have known about it when applying for this permit and living in a state of Florida. I mean…hello. It’s a no-brainer.
@Professor
the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office was poised to release 911 calls made the night of the shooting to CBS news. They are dramatic. In one, Zimmerman describes Trayvon to a dispatcher as a suspicious black man whom he does not recognize and who is loitering in a neighborhoods that’s had a great many break-ins.
I don’t remember hearing anything about “loitering”. So what’s up with that? The reporter is describing what Zimmerman said to police in the 911 call. Why did we not hear the word “loitering” before?
Sounds like the reporter took some artistic liberty. I think GZ said (not sure if in the phone call but to Hannity) he was walking leisurely.
Shellie Z gets continuance
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-19/news/os-shellie-zimmerman-docket-sounding-20120919_1_shellie-zimmerman-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin
That word “continuance” just made my day. I remember that from the movie Liar Liar when he is begging the judge for a continuance because he knew he had no case.
Liar Liar Hahahahahaha Very fitting.
I mean yeah, how many times do NORMAL people engaged in normal pursuits have to “STAND THEIR GROUND” in real life? Not a whole lot.
TZAR??? Really.. I COMMAND YOU to refrain from being disrespectful to Professor Leatherman’s participants on his blog. You’re a newbie and a disrespectful one at that. Take a chill pill and try to get along. We’re all on the same side, remember? PS: It’s not necessary to copy my entire post if you want to respond to me. Maybe you should try to be a bit more creative in your prose to get your point across. Just a suggestion.
I think they meant commend LOL!!!!
But still
obviously, typed a little too fast for my own good
@jb,
I believe Tzar meant commend instead of command. In any event, I hope everything tones down between the two of you as I enjoy the both of you very much. Spirited discussions are great, but we have to be careful. We are family here.:).
I am not sure what you thought I meant by “I command you on your fertile imagination”…sounds pretty bad though. but I meant “commend”.
So here is an example of the problem I find with your logic:
you said :” Something set him off and I have a gut feeling that TM “dissed him” in some way and he was going to make this kid pay.”
If you listened to the NEN you will hear all the nasty things Zimmerman says about Trayvon before the kid ever does anything that can be misconstrued into the threatening act of reaching for a gun by putting his hand on his waistband. Remember GZ said he looked high and like he was up to no good, before he said anything about his waistband. now given that you know for a fact that GZ was either sorely mistaken or flat out lying, why would you possibly hang your hat on his claim that Trayvon put his hand on his waist band by further imagining that Trayvon must have done this to intimidate him?
As a matter of fact, why do you even think GZ needs “something” reasonable to “set him off”? have you read about this guy? the multiple calls to the police? The racist bullying of his co-worker? the chasing into his home and falsely accusing of stealing a bike of a neighborhood kid? The physical assaulting of his former girlfriend? The cutting off of his mother’s electricity? Does this guy sound like he needs REASONS to do stupid violent shit?
You are casually blaming the victim for this lying habitual psychopath’s behavior by alleging, without any foundation, that Trayvon “set him off” and tried to intimidate him by acting like he had a gun and implying that had Trayvon not done that, Zimmerman would not have been “set off” and would have stayed in his car.
Finally, Trayvon was on away turf, exposed and without any weapon of any kind, it makes no sense that he would try to bluff his way out of a potentially lethal confrontation, when he could get away from the car by simply going behind the houses.
This is what I mean by I just don’t see the logic behind your claim.
We can be pretty sure Trayvon walked past GZ’s truck as GZ was parked on TTL facing West and Trayvon walked East from the mailbox area toward the ‘T’. At one point there is fear in GZ’s voice as he asks, “How long until you get an officer over here?” NLME at bcclist refers to this as the moment GZ “shits a brick.” We have no idea what, if anything, passed between the two men at this point. GZ’s claim that TM circled the truck may have come from the fact he gave it a wide berth as he passed. But he may have given GZ a glance. Who knows what his expression might have been, or how GZ might have interpreted it. Perhaps Trayvon was trying to NOT look like easy prey, steeling himself up to look tough. Or maybe he didn’t look at GZ at all, and GZ imagined dark mysteries behind the shadow of the hood on the hoodie.
It’s probably fair to say that ‘something’ set GZ off, but we certainly cannot say it was anything reasonable, or even anything Trayvon did that night. (More likely things other people did on other nights, or rather what GZ imagined about those things.) TM’s behavior was most likely innocent or at least innocuous, and wildly over-interpreted by GZ, leading to his conclusion that Trayvon was a coon/goon/asshole/thug/thief. Assuming DeeDee’s account is essentially accurate, no doubt when Trayvon turned to question GZ, “Why you followin’ me for?” GZ found being challenged at all to be an affront to his authority, a form of verbal aggression, as witnessed by his reply as reported by DeeDee, the escalated retort “What are you doing around here?” So, that would seem to have “set off” GZ even further, though hardly reasonably.
Again assuming it happened as DeeDee reports, this is the moment where the whole thing should have ended. When Trayvon asks “Why you followin’ me for?” GZ should have said something to the effect of, “I’m the neighborhood watch captain, I don’t recognize you, and I want to know what you’re doing here.” To which Trayvon would undoubtedly have replied he was visiting his father who lives on RVC. Perhaps GZ would not have believed him immediately, but I can’t see the situation do anything from that point except defuse, even if slowly and with difficulty.
The fact that GZ, by his own admission, never identified himself to TM, establishes his moral culpability for the young man’s death. I would guess GZ realized this, and thus created the first version of his story, in which TM jumps him from behind without warning, thus precluding the possibility he could have identified himself. But he figured out that wasn’t going to fly, as witnesses had heard the two exchange words, so he switched his story to include the verbal exchange in which he alleges TM went all gangsta on him. Regardless, this still gave him the opportunity to identify himself. Which he did not do. Which makes him just a burly guy determinedly following a kid around with a flashlight in his hand and a gun in his waistband. Which means Trayvon was defending himself AFAICT.
@whonoze… Did you know that the big FLASHLIGHT that was found at the scene was the witness flashlight??? The keychain/flashlight was GZ’S…. Now why would the witness drop his flashlight is beyond me, but like my Uncle OC used to say “Its a dead cat on the line” whatever that mean.. But also, like my Uncle used to say “It’ll all come out in the wash”
@FactsFirst,
Wait, I thought GZ also had a larger flashlight with him, the one he claims he was banging trying to get to work?
Ah..”comment” is much nicer. Thank you for the clarification. I feel much better. Carry on.
I’ll be back later.
LOL..Not comment Now its my turn for typos… Sorry bout that.
@TBT No MAAM…. that flashlight WAS NOT GZ’s according to the document dump dropped today…. And that leaves us to question, so WTF was GZ banging on that night? Furthermore, were there any fingerprints on the skittles and Ice Tea?
@FactsFirst,
Say whaaaat? I haven’t delved into the dump released today just yet. Hmmmmm…….
@whonoze I think the “shit brick” moment is just GZ panicking that he was about to lose his opportunity to a hero and part of an arrest
Which means that GZ returned to his truck, left his tactical flashlight and got his car keys with the small flashlight on it, that he dropped at the T after “borrowing” a flashlight from whomever lives close to the T. To say it another way, being anxious to catch up to Trayvon, GZ threw his car key down and went on pursuit. JMO.
Hello Tzar – How are you?
I think we need to readjust here. LOL
First of all- Thru life lessons of the many years I’ve been on this planet, I’ve come to learn that usually there’s some truth in lies. That’s how liars try to keep their lies straight. You said, “GZ said he looked high and like he was up to no good”. There’s another example of what liars do.
Self reflect — It was Zim who was high on drugs and up to no good.
For whatever reason, you presume that I’m siding with Zim in some way. I assure you, I am not. You can check out my blog, http://thejbmission.com/ if you’d like to know what I really think of George Zimmerman. He’s everything you’ve described and more.
I did listen to the NEN and I’ve listened to it more times than I care to count. With that being said, I’m aware of the derogatory comments Zim made to the dispatcher regarding Tray before he jumped out of his vehicle. Since none of us were there, my presumption is just as good as anyone else’s. I don’t rely on GZ’s reenactment for anything. His reenactment is a joke. Much of what I base my opinion is from the NEN call, witnesses and documents.
Just FYI:
This is when I think TM came near or “circled” George’s truck. The word “circle” is not really important to my point.
@ 1:09 seconds into the NEN call, he says, “now he’s coming towards me”,
@ 1:23 Zim says, “yep, he’s coming to check me out”. This is when I believe Tray is circling or looking into the truck.
@ 1:29 the truck door opens
@ 1:37 Zim says “theseexpletives always get away” Note the heightened anxiety.
@ 2:07 Zim says, “shit, he’s running” That would give Tray 1min, 18secs to get to the cut thru which is when Dee Dee says he began to run.
@ 2:15 truck door closes and the chase is on.
Tzar, I don’t know if the prosecutor needs a motive to convict GZ. Maybe in this case, it’s not necessary. Have you listened to Inv. Serino’s interrogation yet? Even Serino made a point to ask GZ about circling the truck and how close did Tray get. Zim said, “a car length”. Serino asked Zim why didn’t he inform Tray that he was NWC at that point. Of course Zimboy had no answer.
oops..Lastly..
So I wouldn’t be surprised if GZ excludes this little tidbit from his repertoire of lies because it doesn’t help his case since the State’s case his focusing on the fact that Zimmerman failed to explain his actions to Trayvon Martin
@JB
you said, “This is when I think TM came near or “circled” George’s truck. The word “circle” is not really important to my point.
@ 1:09 seconds into the NEN call, he says, “now he’s coming towards me”,
@ 1:23 Zim says, “yep, he’s coming to check me out”. This is when I believe Tray is circling or looking into the truck. ”
1. do you understand what it takes for a black kid, on a dark, rainy deserted street and a strange/new, 80% white neighborhood with historical racial tension, to look into a stranger’s car that has been glowering him for several minutes? complete and utter Insanity.
That. Never. Happened.
2. do you understand what it takes for a white kid, on a dark, rainy deserted street and a strange/new, 80% white neighborhood with historical racial tension, to look into a stranger’s car that has been glowering him for several minutes? complete and utter Insanity.
That. Would. Never. Happened.
That’s like jumping into a van to get candy from a stranger. No one is that Naive.
3. The circling is very important, not only does time not allow for it according to when George said it happened, but it makes no sense what so ever. Trayvon was exposed, the person in te car was hidden and had a tactical sanctuary, why the hell would Trayvon go circle his car? only to run from him?
You are making this kid psycho again
There are some things that I knew with certainty about this case before the evidence ever came out. this is one of them.
@Tzar,
Yeah, I never believed he circled the car either. That’s just more of GZ’s tall tales. If we believe him, TM was circling and running disappearing into the darkness and emerging again. Nonsense.
You have to interpret according to “GZ Speak.” It’s his own Adderall language. What he was saying is that when he was doing his U-turns to follow Trayvon, it meant that Trayvon was circling the car.
@Xena,
Fa real doe LOL
@TruthBTold says: @Xena,
Fa real doe LOL
I can just imagine that GZ grew up in a home where his mom consistently heard “She hit me.” “He hit me first.” “I didn’t hit you first. You pushed me.” “She pushed me first.” “I didn’t push you first. You kicked me.” “She kicked me first.” “I didn’t kick you. You walked in the way as I was kicking the ball.” “It was my turn to kick the ball.” “You weren’t playing.” “You wouldn’t let me play.” “Moooooom!!!!”
People glean their beliefs from life experiences. Unless you’ve lived in TM’s shoes there’s no way you would know what he’d do. I say TM did circle or walk up to the truck out of curiosity. 17yo boys, with testosterone running wildly thru their veins don’t sense fear as easily as men your age.
He is a human being who is curious and he wants to know who in the hell is following him.
If you read the documents you’d know that RVC is not 80% white, more like 60/40 at best.
I don’t believe TM was fearful of white people. There’s been no reports of that. Where are you getting that from? You’re speculating.
On a dark rainy night, I don’t believe it’s possible for anyone to know the race of the person driving the truck either. Besides GZ is not exactly white so that would be hard to ascertain on a dark rainy night, dont’ you think?
There’s no excuse for GZ to kill this child barely 17years old.
Trayvon did everything right that night to protect himself. He hid and watched him and even asked the most logical question, “Why are you following me?” All Zimmerman had to do is identify himself and he had two opportunities. One was when TM came within one car length of his vehicle and the second opportunity was when TM asked him, “Why are you following me?”
You need to go back and read the Issue Capias on page 9 of 117. Whether you believe it or not it will be addressed at trial.
BTW, I don’t believe “he came back out of the darkness”. I think TM did this when he was passing him up as he was walking home. JMO
Update:
State scientists checked several parts of the 9 mm handgun: its grip, trigger, slide and holster. They found Zimmerman’s DNA and that belonging to other unidentifiable people but none that matched Trayvon, records show.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-19/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-new-20120919_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-cell-phone-records
I’d like to know if the DNA that was not Trayvon’s and was not George’s was:
Taaffe’s
Osterman’s
Sandra Osterman’s
Shellie Zimmerman’s
or…
yes…
Good point Malisha,
I’d like to know too. I hope the forensic team is able to come to something more conclusive than unidentified before trial.
I just went through the DNA stuff. Nearly all samples had bits of unidentified. I’ll just post the GZ and TM results.
The gun: all GZ
The holster: GZ, TM not excluded
TM fingernails: TM, no GZ
TM shirt: 4 stains tested;
A is GZ
D is mixed with GZ and TM as possibles
B and E are TM
TM hoodie- TM
cuffs of shirt and hoodie – assume TM, no foreign
GZ shirt: all GZ
GZ jacket:
17 stains tested positive for blood, all GZ
3 stains – no determination
4 stains mixed DNA –
E – major GZ; minor no determination re TM
I – major GZ; minor TM excluded
N – major GZ; minor TM
U – no determination; GZ no determination, TM possible
BB – no determination; GZ possible, TM no determination
So, in summary, there is one bit of GZ on TM’s shirt (not his hoodie!?), and one bit of TM DNA as a minor contributor on GZ’s jacket. All the rest are inconclusive.
and I just would like to add that the drop of blood found on Trayvon shirt (not the hoodie) was found “on the bottom of the shirt”….. Which could have resulted from GZ putting the Ice Tea can back in Trayvon’s hoodie pocket or while checking him for weapons…
Yes, or when he touched the wound in Trayvon’s chest while turning him to get blood on his hands to smear on his own face. And of course, GZ allowed the paramedics to wash it all off, and after he got to the police station, he was allowed to go into the washroom alone.
in the front? or it could have been a drop from GZ’s bloody nose or from his head laceration. What’s important is that it shows that GZ was over TM while TM was on his back.
Why would GZ want to put the can in the hoodie pocket?
Because it was originally in the 7-11 bag, and GZ is now the only one who knows how it got out of that bag and near Trayvon’s body. GZ couldn’t walk over to the grass on the other side and get the bag to put the tea back in it without calling attention to himself.
@bettykath I say GZ may have put the Ice tea (and skittles that were found on the inside pocket which, I’ve NEVER seen a hoodie with inside pockets before) back because it was not in the bag that the 7-11 clerk put it in… I have a hard time believing with all the running and tussing, Trayvon’s earphones, the skittles, and Tea stayed snug in Trayvon’s pockets… I believe GZ or someone tampered with the evidence… But, I could be wrong… just my thoughts….
I think it’s more likely that the bloodstain is dripped blood, which would indicate that GZ was above TM.
The prosecution likely knows whether the stain is due to dripped blood or to a contact transfer, which would be consistent with your theory.
I would need to see a close-up high resolution photograph of the stain to venture an opinion.
I am not a blood spatter expert, but I do know quite a bit about the subject.
The bench notes should be helpful.
Good job Bettykath,
I wonder if Seminole county will pay the extra money to have the articles tested for Touch DNA before trial.
The Skittles were tested, and Trayvon’s blood was found on the Skittles. It could be possible that after GZ managed to get Trayvon’s blood on his hands that he touched the Skittles while frisking Trayvon.
Every nucleated cell in the body contains DNA. Skin cells have a nucleus that contains DNA.
However, skin is composed of layers of skin cells and the cells present in the outer layers are dead. DNA begins to degrade (i.e., break up) immediately when a cell dies. When one of the targeted segments of DNA breaks, it’s no longer possible to type it.
This is generally true of all skin cells that are sloughed off by the body and this is why mere contact with an object, as might happen from touching the object, would not be expected to deposit DNA.
This is why the absence of DNA on an object that may have been touched by someone does not mean anything.
It does not mean they touched the object and it does not mean they didn’t.
@Professor,
So this answers the not testing his hands for DNA as some questioned why. I typically hear of the fingernails being tested as opposed to hands, but unsure.
Stuff gets under fingernails and stays there.
Stuff rubs off and washes off hands.
Yes, exactly.
Frankly, I don’t think you beat someone nearly to death and walk away (or fall on the ground dead away) without his DNA all over your hands and your sleeves. Not in this messy world.
they didn’t test trayvon’s hands. at least it hasn’t been reported.
they indeed did test his hands and found NONE of zimmermans dna including scrapings from under fingernails the physical evidence shows Martins hands apparently never touched zimmerman.
ok. I saw the dna stuff relative to the clothes and TMs fingernails. I didn’t see anything about his hands being tested. Do you have a link? It’s possible that I missed some stuff.
Let’s say that the blood on Trayvon’s hands was not tested to see who it belonged to, and just his fingernail clippings were tested. Now imagine someone grabbing your head with one hand on each side, bouncing it like a basketball up and down on the sidewalk, and having none of that person’s DNA on your fingernails.
Malisha,
From what I’ve read in reports, the EMT allowed Zim to wash his hands which is IMO is just another screw-up for LE.
It wasn’t the EMT. It was the police at the station house after he arrived and before they interrogated him.
It was an egregious and inexcusable error.
That is certainly true and the absence of any blood on the sleeves and cuffs of TM’s two sweatshirts, plus only TM’s DNA present in his fingernail cuttings pretty conclusively establishes that Zimmerman lied about TM assaulting him.
I think George had his gun out WELL BEFORE those screams were heard.
I used to think that, but I’ve become persuaded that the screams are more consistent with physical pain, and thus more inclined toward the hypothesis that GZ had TM in some sort of pain-inducing wrist-hold (as demo-ed on various cop-training YouTube vids, the kind of thing I’d guess GZ would follow). It would not have been possible for him to do that while holding the gun. So perhaps the part of his statement where he says he unholstered his gun only after ‘losing wrist control’ is more or less true — though I suspect he has fabricated the part about Trayvon reaching toward the gun (but not touching it).
I do not know whether such a wrist hold would entail DNA transfer (I’m guessing no, but IANAMD), and whether Trayvon’s autopsy examination would have revealed any painful stresses that might have been applied to his joints. My understanding is that these holds cause significant pain without necessarily causing any lasting injuries such as dislocations or tears. It’s possible the autopsy results could rule out Trayvon having been placed in a painful hold. (I would guess if they had indicated he was placed in a painful hold, we would have heard about it.) Perhaps the examination just didn’t go into that, so the ME can’t say one way or the other. In any event, I’d like to know more about any evidence that supports or rebuts this notion of a hold, especially since GZ makes that reference to ‘wrist-control.’
That is why GZ made up the story of spreading Trayvon’s arms into a Y after he fired his gun — just in case his DNA showed up on the sleeves of Trayvon’s clothes.
Whonoze,
ITA! Xena found an excellent LE training video showing how easy it is to use this hold. No doubt in my mind, GZ, the Wanna-be-cop was looking forward to using it. Perhaps in autopsy photographs it will show some bruising on TM’s wrists although no bruising was mentioned in the ME report which brings up another issue…no bruises were reported on TM’s knuckles either which isn’t likely considering GZ’s claim of being pummeled by TM. Hmm..go figure.
Me too!
It’s my impression that he drew his gun because Trayvon was yelling for help. After a resident came out and said he was calling 911, GZ was out of time. Trayvon wouldn’t stop crying for help and as he told Hannity, he was terrorized and nervous, not wanting the cops to arrive and see him standing there with a gun.
You know I never thought about it that way…. You are spot on!
I agree.
Exactly Xena,
I think he made that up too. GZ was covering his bases..”just in case” and that’s why his reenactment is such a convoluted mess, instead of Truth which would be crystal clear and never changes.
Hey JB!!!
Hi there Xena!
I’m just blog hopping looking for the new doc dump without any luck. Also some very insightful comments.
BTW, does anyone have the link? TIA
JB. Brown posted the links below — almost to the bottom.
George Zimmerman has lied so much I’m sick of looking in his face. Why did he get out of his car? Was he that desperate to become a hero? I look at the people he associate himself with.. Birds of a feather always flock together. They are all criminals in some form…
I believe that MOM will attack the DNA.. I just hope the prosecutors get either Dr. Cyril H. Wecht or Dr. Henry Lee to break down the DNA so the jury can understand it in layman terms. Barry Scheck did a wonderful job in the OJ trial; learned a lot from him. He was sharp and to the point with understanding.
I had my discussion with the gun fanatics; they were extremely quiet today. Now I see why.. We had a Zimmerman evidence dump today..
They did try to twist everything previously mentioned in the professors reply to my post. Will post details at a later time. I’ve been at work all day so I have limited time now to visit and post like before.
Will post their crazy answers soon…
We all know that GZ is “special” and has some serious issues. For those that have stated he needed to kill TM and comments along those lines is leaving my in bewilderment as to this train of thought. I mean, would he really gamble on killing someone and attempting to get-off by claiming self-defense as opposed to facing whatever punishment and penalties imposed for attempting to detain, for menacing, or whatever other applicable legal terms may have applied, if he did not discharge his weapon. It’s crazy.
I believe so, he assaulted a minor. With his previous record he would be looking at time. jmo
Trayvon’s physical actions as described by GZ to the dispatcher, is the standard cop excuse to rule a “good shoot.”
GZ gave a motive (casing houses);
a mental state; (on drugs or something);
and a threatening posture (hands in his waistband, something in his hands.)
He painted Trayvon as a teen having no fear. (He’s coming to check me out.)
GZ cunningly criticized the police dept. (These assholes, they always get away.) Then he confirms his criticism with himself by saying, “Yep.” GZ fully expected that Trayvon would get away.
Had GZ not killed Trayvon, based on what he described to the dispatcher, any cop showing up would be prepared to shoot Trayvon anyway. If not, it would be a very scary harassment of ordering Trayvon to put his hands up and lie face down on the ground rather than a friendly inquiry.
But Trayvon did something that GZ did not anticipate. Trayvon ran. The question then becomes, why would GZ think that Trayvon was a f’ing punk for running since — since — he already said that the assholes always get away?
Suddenly, GZ had to pursue and capture the f’ing punk rather than adhere to his criticism of the police dept.unless — unless — that criticism was stated as an excuse for him to pursue and capture anyway.
When certain people take certain actions, it’s to get the reaction they want. GZ knows how to push buttons. He demonstrated that in the workplace using his Asian co-worker as the brunt of racial jokes. If we believe his cousin, at the age of 8, GZ was already skilled in getting her to react as he wanted, even if it meant betraying her trust.
Why do we think that GZ was so closely following Trayvon in his vehicle and told the dispatcher that Trayvon was checking him out? IMO, because by following the kid so closely, he hoped to provoke Trayvon into confronting him at his truck, giving GZ reason to pull his gun to retain Trayvon. When the cop car arrived, it would be easy to toss the gun into the truck as Trayvon remained spread eagle on the hood with his head down. You see, all of GZ’s lies were played in his head as what he originally hoped for. He still tried fitting them in after-the-fact and the spread eagle story was a part of that.
So this asshole who always gets away became a f’ing punk when he ran to get away — because GZ didn’t have a plan on what he would do if Trayvon ran. GZ only knew the result he wanted, which was to pull his gun and use it as authority to retain. Now he had to retain without the provocation he hoped for, and in another location. Trayvon didn’t cooperate. GZ was not able to march Trayvon back to his truck and order him to put his hands spread eagle on the hood to wait for the police.
GZ made that attempt, but Trayvon screamed for help and that brought attention to what was happening. When Jeremy stepped out and said he was calling the cops, GZ did not know what he saw or didn’t see. He was out of time. I repeat again what GZ said to Hannity; i.e., that he was nervous and terrorized not wanting to cops to arrive and see him standing there with his gun. Trayvon was not going to stop screaming. Under those circumstance, which party would the cop hold his gun on, take down, and arrest?
Good post Xena. I agree that GZ was amping up the description of TM in hopes a police officer would make it on the scene quicker. He didn’t anticipate TM running away and at that point, he went into a different mode and was going to take things into his own hands and catch “this a-hole” by hook or crook as my grandad used to say. He thought he was going to get away with this and he is used to making people believe that they are crazy or the ones in the wrong. We saw him in action on some of those videos and audios.
TruthBTold,
LOL – Yes, GZ is “special” alright.
IMO, George Zimmerman would do ANYTHING to keep his license to carry a concealed weapon. Without it, he’s nobody and he knows it, not to mention, he’d lose any chance of being a police officer or judge or any other position in the workforce where felony convictions are prohibited.
Yes @ thejbmission and he thought he would get away with this shooting thus, avoiding a felony conviction.
Yes, I can see your bewilderment, it was mine too for a while (and still is). But the only alternative is that the killing was premeditated, and if so, it could only be part of a “forced” initiation project of some sort by some person or persons unknown.
I got “slapped” on Bcclist a bit for the idea of a premeditation theory and again for the idea of coupling it with an initiation or “right of passage” theory of some sort. Because the evidence of it was weak enough to be easily dismissed. So, this then was the only alternative I could come up with that made any sense at all.
Nice to see that it’s not making as much sense to some, as I thought it should not in the first place. But, it has held up for a while. Never-the-less, I don’t think the SP will embroider it and make it part of their case, unless some very strong evidence appears to support it. To do otherwise, you risk having the defense put a tin foil hat on your head in front of the jury.
@LS,
I don’t believe that this was some sort of trophy kill, initiation project, premeditation, stalking for days, rite of passage, and other out there theories that were being put forth. Too outlandish for me; this is all about GZ.
It certainly seems that way, but there’s no pattern of escalation in the record. He appears to just suddenly break one day and go right on over a cliff. After adhering to NW rules for so long, even with “light off” patrolling and other covert actions, he never has gone this far off the deep end before this day. In fact, he shows no signs of even building up to it. FT tries to say “he has issues”, but that’s from a guy whose supposed to be a friend? Pretending to support him, while sending him down the drain? Kinda like trying to ensure that the investigation stops with GZ. This guy is underwater and in foreclosure, he’s got to be a very angry guy.
But, on the other hand, since that’s all we have, and it seems to be all we’re going to get, it’s better let go. None of these characters had better appear in any subsequent similar events of this type.
GZ is finished and MOM knows it, he’s got to find things to do to busy himself with billable hours. He’s still got to craft the best defense he possibly can, poor fella. About the only thing he can do while given this stage to perform on is, try to come across as a good personality. If so, that image will survive the trial loss.
Taaffe has “short-term vision.”
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-FLDE-bio-evidence-2-0919.pdf
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-part5-Gorgone-FDLE-complete-report-0919.pdf
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-EXEMPTIONS-0919.pdf
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-Discovery-Redacted-0919.pdf
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/GZ-INTERVIEW-Witness31-711employee-0919.wav
@Brown. Thank you so much for providing the links. You are precious.
: ^ )
BlushBrown
Didn’t stand out to him whatsoever, yet moments later looked suspicious to GZ. SMH
Yep.
Where does it say that the flashlight belongs to W13 and not GZ? I don’t see it in the docs.
(I suspect any such labeling would be in error, as I can’t see any reason for the police to treat W13′s flashlight as evidence.)
I haven’t seen anything that says who it belongs to, but would expect to see it identified as evidence b/c it was part of the crime scene.
I have a new post up:
DNA Testing and the Results from Zimmerman’s Gun
Mr Leatherman,
I dont understand why you continue to say that Trayvon made it to Greens Townhouse or stopped to talk to Dee Dee. Everything I have seen shows that he was moving in that direction towards Greens home. Is it not possible that Zimmerman cut him off from the other direction. Zimmerman continues to lie about everything else why are we to believe the direction he was coming from when he confronted Trayvon?
“I dont understand why you continue to say that Trayvon made it to Greens Townhouse”
I’ve never said that. Ever.
following
This post of yours:
In addition to not having any reason to believe that the creepy man following him in a vehicle would get out of the vehicle and follow him on foot in the rain, TM had another good reason to stop before he reached the safety of Brandi Green’s townhome. That reason was Dee Dee’s phone call. He wanted privacy and he was willing to stand outside in the rain in order to have it.
I don’t know what the temperature was, but I’ll bet he was shivering and cold.
Hormones affect a teenager’s judgment. I remember some of the stupid stuff I did at that age to get and maintain a girl’s attention. Plus, he was lonely away from his friends in the Big City and she was his source of information regarding what they were doing during his 10 day banishment.
The smart thing for him to have done would have been to never lose sight of the creepy man, but the lad was . . . distracted.
***I have seen this post more then once
The temp was 60 degrees, cool but not uncomfortable for a Floridian. A light sweater or two layers of tee’s would be all that’s needed. It’s not “beach weather” but it’s not freezing. They feel that way at about 50 degrees or less. Then it’s heavy sweater/jacket time.
Otherwise, it’s more likely he was just out of breath. He’s not a trained athlete so he doesn’t know how to manage his resources.
A kid, when scared enough to run, will run with all he’s got, and get winded really fast. In sports they teach you how not to run full out so you can last longer. After a swift walk from 711 because of the impending rain, Trayvon probably had little left when he took off running south from GZ. He would probably burn out at less than a football field length. At which point, his only options would be to either keep walking or hide. Since he couldn’t run anymore, his instincts would tell him to hide, rather than stay out in the open where “crazy guy” could see him.
Following that darn thread…
whonoze wrote,
“Again assuming it happened as DeeDee reports, this is the moment where the whole thing should have ended. When Trayvon asks “Why you followin’ me for?” GZ should have said something to the effect of, “I’m the neighborhood watch captain, I don’t recognize you, and I want to know what you’re doing here.” To which Trayvon would undoubtedly have replied he was visiting his father who lives on RVC. Perhaps GZ would not have believed him immediately, but I can’t see the situation do anything from that point except defuse, even if slowly and with difficulty.”
Good overall post whonoze. To the above, I am not sure this would have diffused the situation even slowly and with some difficulty as you stated. First, would TM have believed GZ? This can be anyone. NW members don’t wear uniforms or any other identifying apparell or paraphenelia. It was only TM and Brandi’s young son at home. Second, if TM stated that what you put forth we know that would not have satisfied GZ. He would have prodded or attempted to watch where he went. With the condition of GZ’s mind already illustrated from the 911 call, he was not interested in believing the best about TM that night. It seems like either way, it probably wouldn’t have been a peaceful exchange. Leading back to the main problem of GZ exiting his truck. So and while I understand Serino and others stating he never even attempted to identify himself and that is a point for sure, it’s not as critical or a major turning point for me as other issues namely, the aforementioned. At the end of the day, he had no business attempting to question, detain, approach anyone.
Prosecutors: Keep Trayvon Martin’s school records secret
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-20/news/os-george-zimmerman-school-records-fight-20120920_1_trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara-george-zimmerman-case
SANFORD – Prosecutors in the George Zimmerman case suggest defense attorney Mark O’Mara is trying to “chum the waters” by digging up Trayvon Martin’s school disciplinary records.
In a new pleading, they ask the judge to seal whatever those records show and in the future to keep O’Mara’s subpoenas a secret.
O’Mara is entitled to go on a fishing expedition to find out about Trayvon’s past, according to court paperwork filed Wednesday by Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, but “he is not allowed to “chum the waters and then, by innuendo or otherwise, to publish irrelevant items (such as the aforementioned subpoenas) to the media in an attempt to influence public perception or otherwise curry favor with potential jurors.”
De la Rionda also yesterday filed a new evidence list – his eighth. It shows that a book and television appearance by Zimmerman’s self-proclaimed best friend, former Seminole County deputy Mark Osterman, are now officially part of the case prosecutors are building against Zimmerman.
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/State's%208th%20Supplemental%20Discovery.pdf
Thank you!
: ^ )))