After reviewing the matter of Ajamazin’s tweets raised yesterday by Rnsome, I have decided to ban her from this site for the good of our community.
I again apologize to Rnsome for not believing him and accusing him of being a troll. I could not have been more wrong.
My apologies to all of you for failing to be aware of a deteriorating situation that I should have handled sooner.
Thanks for your support.
Carry on.
ok…. your house your rules
I have been reading here for a few weeks now…. your blog is heavily followed by another group of pretty smart people that support Trayvon and want to see him get some justice….
In regards to aja…. like on the other site I follow this case with we have a member who insists on posting “one liners” often way off base, off topic, snarky, and disrespectful! I not only derails the conversation but it also makes the owners CRAZY…. I for one appreciate that the conspiracy theory mumbo jumbo will be absent from the thread…. The fact that she played you on a personal level is pretty lousy!!!!
Decisions such as these are very hard to make and I’m glad that I wasn’t in that position. However, I would like to say that the tweets that were in question and screencapped were to my Twitter and I never could get a straight answer as to what had happened. I will now consider your banning of this person to be the answer that I needed so thank you for that.
@ Ajamazin,
Ajamazin, just say how deeply sorry you are to the Professor and the participants here who may have trusted you. I am sure the Professor will forgive you. Even the Professor realizes that we all sin against one another at one point or another and that without forgiveness, we may never move on. Offering heartfelt apology would also help you turn your life around, make you more mature and responsible, etc. But “deny, deny, deny” is a path to decay and destruction.
Never fear, you have not seen the last of her! She is a master at being a re-reg! I know of two sites where she has been banned several times, yet like the proverbial bad penney, keeps coming back…. Normally she is more open with her support of the Zimmerman cause, but here she was more subltle, to a point. Watch for her, she will change her name, she will change her words a little, but if you observe you will soon realize it is her…
WELL, unfortunately, after first coming to her defense, I have come to believe that what some of you are saying is true. She has since arrived back at HuffPost (the same place she says she was locked out of, but I note that she has over 1400 fans) and has caused all kinds of mischief on the board. I never before noticed what an imperial demeanor she has until her recent resurfacing at HP. It’s either her way or the highway.
Michelle – Zimmmerman’s guys are like that.
No keeping an open mind.
And when you look at it, 1,400 pro-Zim nutcakes worldwide is probably the right number. Ajamazin starts out clever and captivating, builds a fan base.
Incidentally, nobody knows who these cyberpsychos really are.
Ajamazin’s got a photo of a gorgeous gal, In reality a 46-year old guy with zits, living in his aunt’s basement in Bozeman, MT?
patricial – after having done a bit of internet sleuthing lately, your comment may just be on target. i don’t think that pic is legit and i am very aware of other personas that poster has used of varying genders, ages, experiences, and claimed education. i’m not convinced the poster is a zim supporter, but there is something distinctively inauthentic which is a real flag for me.
agreed, michelleO and a big howdy from your pal here and there, although i find ‘there’ to be a major downer these days and do not show up very often.
Works for me.
TruthBTold – I’m glad that you aren’t done with this blog. You are such a welcoming, positive presence. I feel as if you are a natural born lead cheerleader, which this cause needs.
@LTG,
Wow, that touched my heart. Thank you so much for that. I enjoy you as well:). Keep up the good work.
@longtimegeek
I agree. When I first started coming here TruthBTold always responded to me with kindness and made me feel welcome.
Good decision.
A wise decision. I did not read the tweets or the pages about you and Crane and your daughter. It’s so sad and unfair. You both have been upfront online with exactly who you are and where you stand. And, you have mentioned the hours you spend on this blog. We all have busy lives and you do too. Her attacks on fellow bloggers were very uncalled for. This is purposely tearing down what you have worked to build…you and Crane….a good place to come to discuss this case and not fear being degraded because my education level/expertise/knowledge is not even 1/4 equal to others who post……but, each of us bring our own knowledge base to contribute and being able to do it without having to read through crap to find things is really nice. Thank you and Crane for this. We value your time, and ignore the hatred some people have to live in their minds with….
namaste (now lemma finally go google this word
Fred~~for a person to claim that their email address showed up on a blog’s comment section due to a WordPress glitch is ludicrous and next to impossible. Once I read that in a comment, I had a feeling that the contributor of that comment was up to no good. I did not see where that person added anything of value to the discussion, in fact, the continual one liner nonsense was rather annoying.
Plus, it’s easy to change in email address in WordPress.
mainstreamfair, re: “the contributor of that comment was up to no good. I did not see where that person added anything of value to the discussion, in fact, the continual on liner nonsense was rather annoying.” This is restrictive to the comfort of many valuable contributors. Sometimes the Professor himself throws out a line or two. A nice break!
It is not at all unusual for anyone familiar with another particular commenter to have fun. Some feel quite free to do, whatever they see as unacceptable for others to do. Sometimes onliners, jokes, private fun, are quite rampant on other blogs, especially when relevant post discussions are quiet. Actually has been noticed to be quite prevalent on some blogs in my earlier days.
imoo, Blog owners can make the decisions based on everything combined that they personally know, because facts are not always known by every individual commenting on a particular blog. I do respect the choice of the Professor and wife, in their
decisions.
TM, most of the one-liners from that source added zero to our work. The took up inordinate amounts of time. Every one of us is carrying a heavy workload. We did not need that burden.
And some of those comments were an ice-pick to the heart.
I am ashamed that I did not protest.
Sending my apologies.
Mainstreamfair, you said, “for a person to claim that their email address showed up on a blog’s comment section due to a WordPress glitch is ludicrous and next to impossible. Once I read that in a comment, I had a feeling that the contributor of that comment was up to no good.”
As I read that, I got the giggles. At one time recently, simply because I was curious, I went over to the Emerald whatever web-page to see what they/it/he/she were doing, and I read this nutty, logic-free description of what “really happened” between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. It was “ludicrous and next to impossible.” After reading for less than a minute, I realized that the Emerald copyrighter just went along with everything George Z had said or even thought, and that they/it/he/she believed that Trayvon Martin was “up to no good” and therefore needed to be shot by their blameless paragon of virtue carrying out god’s plan.
The confusing part for me was trying to figure out what I originally wondered about: How did Ajamazin think that she was helping George Zimmerman by the stuff she was doing to or about Frederick Leatherman? It is strange because that entity (Ajamazin) did not seem so dumb. But then again…
Thank you for making that decision. i have refrained from commenting about what transpired here right away. First of all, I had been sick for a few days and had not beon frequenting the board. This individual did not know me from Adam, and yet she made a comment about one of my threads by dismissing it and being totallly disrespectful, cruel and nasty afterwards. My momma always says that, ‘You reap what you sow.” What she did was despicable and her attempt to defend herself was phony as well. She was busted and she knew it.
wb Deborah hugsssssss! And remember all she posted she had been banned…bragging….and just made 5 new email addy’s and went back to that blog. But, don’t leave Deborah everyone loved what you contributed.
Professor, what happened to your links to subjects, and the yellow stars to rate?
hinkster4ever~~mine are all showing. I am using Chrome 21 as my browser.
difficult decision, but probably a wise one. i tried to stay out of the fray, having known the person in question for a while at huffpost. i am aware of the troubled twitter account, it has been her downfall before. also, the intense conspiracy theories can be overwhelming, but manageable. the last couple of weeks however were not. i saw way too many personal and derogatory attacks on unsuspecting posters that seemed to get progressively worse. when i saw her try to lecture a very nice black woman who posts here about the root causes of racism, yet deny the posters own words, i figured we were all heading for trouble. unfortunately, it got even weirder when it became obvious that aja was responsible for some very malicious gossip regarding both you, professor, and your lovely wife – after spending weeks of kissing up to you here. i am sorry for all that got too close.
I remember her too, from HP and she was pretty nice over there. I don’t know what transpired with her over here. It was like night and day. I was begining to think she was a family member of the Zimmermans! LOL! Hi hinkster and love to everyone! ::WAVING:: I am finally on the mend after being sick for a few days. I have learned so much on this board and I could care less about the Professor’s credentials, his family, etc,. What does that have to do with anything? He doesn’t have to prove anything to anybody. He is not on trial for any crimes. GZ will be! Everyone here is free to say and give their opinion and if you don’t agree, state why respectfully, and debate in a civil manner. How hard is that to do? We all have the same goal here and that is to seek justice for a teenager boy who lost his life to a crazy lunatic! When I see the photo of TM, I see my own 17 y/o son and daughters too.
The best case scenario that has crossed my mind is: familiarity breeds contempt. Months ago, she wrote on this blog that HP people accused her of multiple personality disorder. Recently, I’ve wondered if multiple people comment under the same login. The scenarios that have crossed my mind have gone downhill from there.
Thank you DGM. We may not always see things the same, but we have the same goal. I see my son too evert time I see a picture of Trayvon, and it keeps me focused.
Family member of the Zimmermans? Although I confess that I don’t understand at all what happened (and don’t know how to either tweet or read tweets), I would not guess that Amajazin was a family member of the Zimmermans because she was, regardless of anything else, a lot smarter than any Zimmerman family member I have read interviews from. [GRAMMAR POLICE: Malisha ended a sentence with a preposition again, something up with which I will not PUT!]
It was just a joke Malisha. Lighten up. I used to interact with the now banned poster, on HP and we never had an issue until I came over here and I was not even here 5 minutes when she dismissed my post. I was like “Excuse me?” If you have something to say, then say it! If she was a member of that family, she would have been addressing all of us on here, not just me.
Deborah G-M, I only have one son and he is white. He looks more like George Zimmerman than like Trayvon Martin. Yet every time I see a photo of TM, I see my son. NOT because of physical resemblance, but because he, like Trayvon, has hope in his eyes, openness and fun in his features, right-to-be-who-he-is in his bearing, and love in the way he reflects the light sent his way. I am proud to say I raised my son more the way Sabrina Fulton and Tracy Martin raised Trayvon than the way Robert and Gladys Zimmerman raised George; I can say that with confidence. Carry on, Deborah G-M.
Hiya, my friend!
co-sign
My comment was to Fauxmccoy! Geez, I keep forgetting to acknowledge who I’m speaking to.
i understood you SG2
i know you were on the receiving end of some of the inexplicable criticism and i just don’t get it. it served no purpose and i fear that the steady stream of undue harshness really alienated some posters. i’m relieved it’s over.
She was so rude and disrespectful to Granny and you know where I come from… if you disrespect your elders that is considered a sin and the person is going straight to he!!. lol
Haven’t spoken to you in a while.. I’m going to turn in now and catch you tomorrow…Have a great evening….everyone..
Hi, Every!
We’ll talk tomorrow. Rest well.
Oops, i didn’t mean you personally DGM, I meant all of us here. Sorry, I should have made that clear
No problem Rachael. I think we all on the board are just upset about what has transpired here. We need to keep our focus on why we are here. It is okay! PEACE!
I regularily follow the conversation and comment briefly when I feel moved to do so. I am fascinated by the insight and wisdom of the professor and the participants on this blog, and I truly appreciate the vast majority of you.
While I found Aja entertaining at times I didn’t find anything especially valuable in her participation and at times I found it odd and out of context and (quite frankly) snarky. I can’t say that I’ll miss her.
Sometimes this case makes me feel like the whole dang world has gone topsy turvy and nothing makes sense anymore. I guess the reality is that the reality I thought I lived in is a lie, and I was just seeing what I wanted to see.
People are racist and mean spirited and it takes a tragedy like this to bring out their true character.
Thankfully it also brings out the best in others.
Til tomorrow…
I’ve never known Ajamazin to be anything less than honest. We’ve all lost patience in conversations and said pointed things when we feel passionate about a subject. I could be wrong, but I don’t see why she deserves to be banned.
Personally each of the one-liners would lead me to investigate further. Don’t know if ajazamin is male or female, but he or she did an alot of research. Wouldn’t give you the information. You had to find it. I know little to nothing about most people participating in this blog. The little I do know is that you all are a fine bunch – engaged and we are all here seeking the truth.
A group gathered for a common cause will not always agree. This is especially true in this format. But, if someone has a different view and things get out of hand – I am glad to see the Professor step in. There is much speculation and even more interpretations of the presented evidence.
I am sad that ajazmazin is banned but I have not been following every thread that closely. If banned, it must have been warranted.
At least she can carry on and view the blog, if interested. This is what happens when you misbehave in a civil, respectful environment.
Finally, while the majority feel the evidence leads them to a particular conclusion, let’s not get the blinders on and pooh-pooh alternative thoughts or requests for clarification. Not everything has been released.
And, for those who do not like the word conspiracy here is the Number 1 definition:
Basically, an agreement between two or more people to do something wrongful or illegal. Simple as that.
In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to break the law at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act must also have been undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense. There is no limit on the number participating in the conspiracy and, in most countries, no requirement that any steps have been taken to put the plan into effect (compare attempts which require proximity to the full offence). For the purposes of concurrence, the actus reus is a continuing one and parties may join the plot later and incur joint liability and conspiracy can be charged where the co-conspirators have been acquitted or cannot be traced. Finally, repentance by one or more parties does not affect liability but may reduce their sentence.
Thank you for listening.
Apply conspiracy to Shelly, the brother-in-law, and GZ. All, if not more, conspired. Yet, one (the middle woman) is the only one charged.
That is one example of conspiracy. There are more examples. But, I will leave that for another day.
yes sandra, there was certainly some effort amongst the zimmermans to conspire for better bond conditions and maybe much more. i am the one who mentioned wild conspiracy theories above, but this is not what i was trying to convey.
the combination of comments here, other blogs, and tweets indicated that aja believed that leatherman’s father, along with gz’s grandfather worked in the foreign service together at the same time, that gz’s grandfather and/or father worked for the CIA and that the shooting of martin was a political assassination. there was also an insinuation that the recent death of taaffe’s son was ‘no accident’. either i am quite naive or this is a bit over the top.
I agree totally – over the top – and, Professor Leatherman is the decision-maker. I had no dog in that fight and missed out on alot of it, thank goodness.
That’s real sweet and all, but look what she wrote. She spent time on this. This guy apparently put most of them altogether. http://emeraldharlequin.wordpress.com/2012/09/01/ajamazin-said/
I hadn’t read all of them before, but it’s pretty damned obvious she’s the one that did it. My two cents. YMMV.
Stamina – Troll.
I hope you will all forgive me for not weighing in on this subject. I don’t really understand it or what happened, don’t really care to. Maybe it is because I’m kind of new, or maybe I just don’t want to know, but I just want this to be a safe place where I can learn, say what I believe and not see excrement thrown by both “sides” like I do at some of the other places I have been.
Rachael, good words.
From about 1980 to the present day, on and off, I have been involved as a volunteer activist (unarmed) helping mothers who find themselves being victimized in the family court system, all different states. I discovered, early on, that some of the mothers had become “designated victims” and that when I tried to help them, I encountered the most astonishing burden of hatred, from people to whom I had offered no offense, and delivered in the most crude and uninhibited manner. Among other things that I have wanted to be able to do with my remaining years has been the intent to write a book about what bizarre motivations cause folks to attack those they perceive as helpers to “underdogs” for whom they profess no actual malice. I found, at first to my amusement and then later to my chagrin and ultimately to my position of undisguised rage, that the “helper” is seen as a person who is lending strength and endurance to an intended victim and, as such, becomes the target of offensive/defensive attack.
At one point the attorney general’s office of the State of New York contacted me and threatened me with disbarment. I had never pretended to be a lawyer or acted as a lawyer. They ASSUMED I was a lawyer because when I called their office (introducing myself as a citizen of Washington, DC who was visiting in New City, New York) I apparently used an educated speech pattern and I said, verbatim, “I am trying to help a woman who has written to you about her children.”
The woman on the phone with me started off with an obviously prepared speech: “You are not licensed in New York; I frankly cannot figure out WHERE you are licensed but wherever you ARE, we are going to contact them and you are going to find yourself stripped of your license to practice and out of business in short order.” She spat out the words.
“I’m not a lawyer,” I interrupted. long silence.
“You’re not?” she now spoke in a normal voice. Wind entirely out of her sails.
“No. I never said I was. I said I wanted to try to help Oneida.”
“But if you’re not a lawyer, how can you help her?”
“I don’t know — that is exactly why I called you, remember?”
She hung up on me. She had nothing more with which she could threaten me. I would not have been surprised had she then said, “Well we’ll just get some Mafiosi to feed you to the fishes then” because she was in such a rage.
Why are people attacking Professor Leatherman and Crane-Station? I think it is because they have taken a stance resisting post-mortem abuse of Trayvon Martin and his family, because they are coming in on the side of the people who are often abused, and because, essentially, the pro-Zim folks are running out of people to attack.
Exactly rachel, New and interesting people who wish to contribute are very discouraged by the old timers who have had self ordained authorities, simply because they have become special people to a few others. If one reads other blogs it can be found that ridicule, harassment, bullying and downright hatred is spewed not only by the visitors, by blog owners themselves, particularly taking it to other blogs while expecting and banning any out of liners on their own blogs. This from experience and having had what is called double standard, forked-tongue, liars, prevail until blogs actually are overrun by just a few and in time destroyed. However, it has always been the “others” that do these things, not ME! LOL
I agree, there is reason for banning, and it is difficult to operate a blog effectively if in many cases banning does not take place, but it is really quite easy to get along until one or two decide to cause a problem. They then become the center of interest and possibly is exactly why they create the ruckus to begin with. Hang in here!
Just personal observation, nothing more.
It is when you have one or two people that come with the express reason of baiting the board that trouble starts…. it derails the intelligent conversation and then the one goal of Justice for Trayvon is lost for the day….sometimes more than one day….
Owners of blogs….or good ones at any rate…. create boundaries and rules to follow….. when members can’t abide by those rules it isn’t much different than inviting a guest into your home only to discover they came with the intent to crap on your living room floor…. my feeling is if and when you want to pay the money to have your own blog…. it is respectful to follow the rules of the one you visit….
There are buckets of blogs that are geared to smearing this young victim and his family…. if that is what someone wants to do then more power to ya!!!! Just go do it THERE…. not HERE….and if you do decide that your opinion and desire to smear a victim or the owner of the place you have come to spread your stink in is so overwhelming you just can’t help yourself…. Don’t behave all surprised and indignant when you are escorted out and asked not to come back….
Expressing a dissenting opinion with respect and intelligence should be welcome EVERYWHERE…. key words being respectful and intelligent…. throwing out stinky chum to rile up a group of people doesn’t fall in either of those categories….
It is almost impossible to ban people from anything these days. Hopefully. the uncivilized Zimbots that have been banned don’t figure out how to get back on here. Even for IT people like myself, it would be a challenge to keep the trolls off of this blog.
Dennis – Troll
Wow.
@SG2,
Y’all need to stop lol. Too kind, just too kind. Thank you:).
Hey, TBT, you just need to accept it! It is what it is!
In my best JJ Evan’s voice from “Good Times,” Well you know, what can I say? LOL
She called me liar from one of my early posts. I saw many other snarky posts. She seemed to go from being snarky to being supportive. Hard to figure her out but since I pretty much stopped reading her posts, I didn’t give a good try. If she used various means to attack the blog owner and then deny it, it’s time she found something else to do.
I received a reply on one of my comments from ajamazin that was very weird. It made absolutely no sense. I merely stated one of my theories regarding what happened and it seemed like the person was poking fun at me. I think Frederick made the right decision.
For me no Twitter or Facebook account… I will have too continue the old fashion way. One letter at a time..LOL
Dennis – is aTroll
Why? Am I one too? Geez
Rachael – Of course, you are not. If you know someone on the list, fine. I have merely compiled a list of those who may need monitoring.
Wowzer! I just got online and I am shocked. Sandra? Dennis a troll….???…..Wth…….Dennis has always been a great poster….what happened after I got offline last night to get this started????
@Leatherman,
May I make a suggestion, close this thread immediately. You’ve made a decision, now eveyone needs to go back to the case at hand.
Thank You
Brown
My thoughts exactly Brown. The decision has been made, life goes on, now it’s time to move on.
: ^ )
Who knows what is up with this woman? She didn’t waste any time posting on HP though because she is on there. In fact, she was on my list of “FRIENDS?” I enjoyed her comments. That is what is so wierd. Her postings are very positive and insightful. Not one nasty post and if does take umbrage, it is with a nasty, delusional GZ fan. I don’t know what to think anymore. She is wierd.
Professor Leatherman, I hear of “squatters” rights. How long does
a commenter of one liners have to keep doing it to have the right to claim it is their legal right. How does one being here just a couple posts reach the acceptance of calling you “Fred” without having to type out the long Professor Leatherman??????????
Prof has as many letters as Fred lol
Hey Digger~~by tomorrow, I may start calling him Blog Daddy. lol
You can call me Fred.
Professor Leatherman, this blog has been such a great avenue to express concern about the legal system also to be a voice for TM family who is seeking justice.
Keep on keepin on!
Everybody lets get back to work and learn to we can defend truth and justice…
I guess Osterman rushed to get the book out to contribute to the GZ Charity Fund. Now – does anyone remember ajamazin writing:
nom de plume. I think she was trying to tell us that maybe GZ wrote the book and borrowed Ostermans name since there are a couple previous books by Osterman (father and or son). What better way to cash in. Or, has Osterman quit his job to devote his life to the care of his good friend George. Someone says it is written in the same way GZ writes. Well, when it comes out, we have both statements to gauge from. Just food for thought.
The book would sell much better if GZ was credited as author.
I believe this is being done on purpose. Mark Osterman says he is writing a book. George Z and his lawyers immediately say they cannot vouch for the truth of anything in there. When the book comes out, if some parts of it seem to “fly” in the public forums, George Z rushes to “own” them; things that fall flat like a lead balloon are immediately disavowed by George Z. It’s a perfect system! It will sell among those who want to read it or who think they should; money will come in; the money will be used for the “movement” and so forth. Not very hard to figure out. Osterman has been part of this for a long time.
There is a blog that claims to have the parts of it, perhaps all of it. The first two chapters are up. They give another version of George’s story.
Patricia – thanks for your comment. Nit-picky is what I am because when details get lost in the fog, no one sees them any more. I really donèt like to hear someone say that the key at the Tee lacks importance. That could very well be.But, don’t dismiss it because someone says – look over here, not over there. The Arizona Iced Tea was not Arizona Iced Tea. There is a reason why it is not identified for what it was. Same thing with the NEN call from GZs F….n Whatever. Let it slide. Now, it is generally accepted as Punks. OK – Whatever. Look over here not over there. Officer Smiths report indicating Trayvon was wearing blue jeans when he clearly was not. Yet, even GZ describes Trayvon as wearing jeans or sweats. Donèt worry about it. Not important.
Well, MOM itemized reasons why GZ felt he would not get a fair trail. While each point was not enough to have the good judge recused, the packae, as a whole met that standard to two of the three judges.
Nit-picky , I am — and proud of it. To a writer, details can keep you out of alot of trouble. I wrote detailed reports – accident investigations at the scene and there were times when it was 1 mere detail that changed the whole picture. I am glad you appreciate that.
IMO, it’s not so much that the key left at the T is as important as the fact that GZ NEVER mentioned when he dropped the key. The same goes for his tactical flashlight. When taking the position that you were attacked, people generally remember what was in their hands, if the other person tried taking it and if not, why they dropped or threw it.
Maybe GZ concentrated on his excuse for being out of his truck (because he sees that as defeating his claim of self-defense), and forgot to develop a story for what happened to those things in his hands.
I have pondered if the small cut on Trayvon’s ring finger is a defensive wound deriving from raising his hand to ward off a hit from the tactical flashlight, and if maybe in doing so, it resulted in bouncing off GZ’s nose. The lab report found no blood on the flashlight, then too, I remember that Serino had it with him on 2/29/12 when he interviewed GZ.
Yeah Xena, It would be interesting to know. He said at the “T” when he and Trayvon met up, that he reached in his pocket for his cell phone. It would be interesting to know what he had in his hands as far as the flashlight and keys are concerned.
I also have noticed that whenever GZ says something that just might not be truthful he says something else behind the statement to…I don’t know, for the lack of a better word I’ll say rationalize his statement.
For example he says he reaches in his pocket for his phone, then says something like, ” i thought it was in my jacket pocket” Well we know in at least one statement he said that Trayvon punched him and it appears he never got it out. Why talk about where he thought he put it? It seems reaching in a pocket would be good enough.
The other instance is when he is giving a statement to the female officer. He says his head was being slammed on the concrete after he was knocked to the ground, flat on his back. He says while his head is being slammed, ” He was slamming my head, I don’t know if it was concrete or a sign….” WTH? There is a dog sign with the little poop bag box off of the “T” And lets not forget the Paramedic statement says his head wound came from an object thrown at him.
He hasn’t convinced himself of his own lies. Even he knows they are unbelievable so he adds a little something else..just in case someone may have saw something different…or so it seems.
Trent Sawyer, on Youtube discusses this in one of his video’s of GZ referring to a sign. Why mention that? Was he pushed into that sign and is that why he had those scratches on the back of his fat head?
@logi. You make a good point about the thrown object and GZ maybe it was a sign. Both convey that the wounds were inflicted while GZ was standing up. If someone was to bash my head, the wounds would be in the middle and not opposite each other to each side. GZ’s cuts look more like falling against something, then turning and falling back again. Maybe he was high that night. Sadly, we won’t know.
He certainly sounds high to me on that 911 phone call, and after working in drug treatment for a few years and sometimes per diem, you know a high client when you hear one and see one. The inept SPD deliberately IMO did not drug testt GZ which was a fatal flaw on their part. SMH. Doesn’t GZ have an alcohol problem and that is why the former judge admonished him about drinking alcohol when he granted bail the second time?
Sandra, I was hoping you saw that as a compliment. Criminal investigations do not succeed using a broad brush. I’m also a great cherisher of nits. We, as a group, over-do — and that is why we are good at what we do.
I should, I think, have referred to you as an archaeologist, a curator, a woman with X-ray eyes. For all of those reasons and more, we have great respect for you.
Please take this as a love letter – sent with apologies.
I am so sorry. I took absolutely no offence to your comment. I’ll take the love letter though. There may be times I need to hold it close. The seas are getting pretty rough. I guess it is the way I word things sometimes. I have no problem being a nit-picker. I was trained that way and was bit in the behind a few times early on because I missed the little things that mean so much. Thank you for your complimentary reply!! Sincerely.
I just read a hilarious comment on justincaselawgic’s blog from ajamazin. She roasts him on his “math skills” because tries to calculate a distance using the Pythagorean Theorem with no right angle involved. I surely can’t trust someone that can’t do a simple Trig problem. I thought I would share my laugh of the night with y’all.
Dennis is a troll.
“Sandra E. Graham says:
September 2, 2012 at 3:28 am
Dennis is a troll.”
This has appeared several times today. Has someone hijacked Sandra’s email or is her personality splitting apart as well? (Sorry Sandra if this is out of your hands).
Someone suggested she might be an Ajamazin sockpuppet. Sure seems like it to me.
Hi everyone. I am rather new as well so I don’t really know what all happened. I was offended by AJA’s race discussion with Granny. I did read about an accusation about some less that honorable comments made on other blogs concerning the Professor but I thought he had determined that they were not done by her. I don’t know but I know I don’t want to be kicked off!
Guys I’ve been on other blogs and there is a lot of talk concerning Miranda rights and illegal detaining and questiong of GZ yada yada yada.
Professor , I know you answered my original question I had concerning promises being made in exchange for statements. You agreed and said no promises were made. Thank you for answering my original question.
May I ask a broader question like, in your opinion was everything handled properly by SPD in regard to detaining and questioning GZ?
Since I have no legal back ground these people sound pretty convincing throwing around a lot of paragraphs with numbers in front of them as evidence of illegal procedure. : )
Thank You.
Professor, you are a true leader. I always feel bad when there is banning, but that’s because I still can’t grasp the concept that people play games and go overboard. It really takes too much pre-planning to use deception to carry-out what happened resulting in the banning. In the end, the only person feeling humiliated is not the targeted individual(s), but the one that was banned.
no need to apologize sir..
I once was blind but now I see..
Amazing. Grace…..
Your wonderful site has blessed us with unimaginable wisdom…
Well, I am concerned about the banning of ajamazin. I went back over the posts. A friend of mine who posts videos on YouTube and I spoke. She says once a TROLL finds a spot to land, the lesser trolls are quick to follow. Some squak a little louder than others. But, the aim is the same – disrupt, confuse, frustrate, defame, etc. I have not been in Professor Leathermans house very long. But, the accusations against ajamazin were coming from a few. They are like a dog with a juicy bone – won’t give it up. I will name names because I am not familiar with any of their posts until this whole controversy. If you know them and I am wrong, I will apologize. But, the site that they mention as proof is suspect, IMO. I don’t think ajamazin would disrespect the Professor or Crane-Station. I do know that ajamazin researches relentlessly and happened upon a coincidence of sorts. Read into it what you will. But ajamazin, would not make the comments that shows in the blog unless provoked. Even I was labeled a sychophant (brown-noser). Why, donèt know. Maybe because I came to ajamazins defence at times. Well, sychophant or not, I will do it again.
The following commenters have contributed nothing to this blog except the attack on ajamazin:
LeeLee
Stamina
Winter
TM
Dennis
Flash
reflectedsafe0
bettykath
MichelleO
Do any of the regular posters know them.
@Sandra. “She says once a TROLL finds a spot to land, the lesser trolls are quick to follow.”
Some are not lesser trolls, but the same person with numerous handles. There’s the one that posts something rude, the second that agrees; the third that defends the first (while usually incorporating the name of whomever disagrees with the first), and the fourth that backs up the third.
Xena – I have made a list further down, I think. I am asking if any of the regular posters know them because I suspect they are trolls. It looks like things are going to get out of hand. Do they ever go away, though.
This is why I ask. It seems things are getting out of control here. So, I will go solo. Thanks everyone. I learned alot and you have the most-honourable intention, as do I. I don’t want to see George Zimmerman getting away with murder. Lastly, to any troll who may wish to read this, You are so lucky to live in a society where you are given the right of free speech and yet you are abusing it. There is a difference between free speech and hate speech. Bullying will only last as long as others tolerate it. Again, thanks everyone — especially Professor Leatherman and Crane-Station.
TM – Please read my post. I apologize for offending you. I meant no harm to any legitimate commenters on this blog.
“This is why I ask. It seems things are getting out of control here. So, I will go solo. Thanks everyone. ”
— LOL. She starts a witch-hunt against her fellow users and then says “things are getting out of control here” and bails. I’m going to go back to just reading. Hoping for next blog to come soon.
Sandra E. Graham, In what way have I made any attack what- so ever on AJAMAZIN. If I am to be accused I expect to have you bring it up to my face, What you call nothing contributed, is not always under the same name. I suggest you take a look at
mainstreamfair Sept 1, @ 8:01 pm and address that, my comment right after was a quote plus my opinion. How much more disrespectful are you on your addressing names without knowledge of that person you attack. What are some of us missing that you have been given priviledge to make such a listing. I happen to have been here only a couple weeks and with my own business to take care of, not often. I just don’t like slang attributed to someone when it is often “it takes one to know one” from those who are as negatively active, if not here, elsewhere. Direct me to my error, I will acknowledge it. Who are you trolling with SEG. My apology if you own this blog, but you see some of us do not know what the hell is going on when
you do something like your listing.
If Professor Leatherman and Crane-Station have the same decision about me, I am ready to take their ban. Let’s hear it professor, Crane-Station.
Or SEG, are you talking about donations, when you mention contributions. I expect an apology from you, at no time ever have I addressed anything to you personally or to Ajamazin.
Respectfully pissed! TM
THIS is getting pretty silly. There seems to be some competition for Ajamazin’s former position on this blog. So, now people who are unfamiliar with other posters, now thinks that it is their job to become paranoid neighborhood watch captains, and to shoot on sight!
How juvenile. I don’t think that any of you need to ride the jock of Professor Leatherman that hard, for as you can see—he can handle his own business quite nicely. If you don’t recognize someone, how about a nice how-de-doo? One person tells a brazen lie that I have been unkind to Ajamazin, when she is my girl! Can’t help what happened to some of you and other posters. But please stop with out-and-out lies and the hysterics. I think that this is a nice blog, but acting like love-struck groupies is not helping.
And no, I am not going away, so don’t even try me!
I don’t post often, I just read, read, read. I have noticed people who I think, ah, they might be a troll, but I have no proof & am too old to go chasing them down, or flush them out. I came here to read facts & legal arguments as to how the case goes. I am pro Trayvon & his family. I have one weird observation to make. I followed the Iranian election on twitter when it all exploded. Aja reminded me of that experience in the way he/ she posted. Whatever, I hope you keep this blog up & that the trolls just GO AWAY!
Michelle O is not a troll. She is a regular poster from Huffington Post.
THANK YOU! The nerve!
i second that emotion!
Sandra,
I have only been on this blog a couple of weeks, but I remember seeing one of Aja’s comments with her email address displayed AND her immediately posting a comment asking the Professor how that happened.
She had one very vicious “stalker” on HP who claimed to have “seen” her IP address, and began posting links to Twitpics claimed to be hers. This “stalker” also twice opened a account on HP with variations of Aja/magedfoxx’s name and avatar
I’m tech impaired, but suspect Aja’s come under attack by a very malicious person
EXACTLY right, Looney (hey, Looney!!). I remember that situation as well. She left HP because of it, and I was glad when I saw her name here.
hey ladies (looney and michelle) i am sure you remember me from HP as well as noticed my absence there for several weeks. i could no longer stand the racist BS that was allowed to stand there and made a new home for myself right here. i too was glad when i got here and saw aja (and can confirm the situation you spoke of at HP with some posters doing their best to intimidate her there).
that said, i will say that i think the professor made the right decision here. i witnessed a severe decline in civility towards other posters that i found disheartening. i did see the very personal attacks she made toward our host here and his wife (via twitter and on blogs created solely to discredit leatherman). i do not know what caused this change of heart for her, but have no doubt that it was her and her statements with no ‘hacking’ involved.
now, i am hoping that we can all put this sad chapter to bed and continue on as we were.
In her defense, I will say I remember that incident and how much trouble it caused for her. Why would someone else be trying to assume her identity? She is back on HP though, so who knows what is going on. This entire incicent is a mystery to me.
I suppose the hacker just happened to share Ajamazin’s obsession with genealogy.
Ok, I read down to last entry @ 9:52 am. Sandra, you said you were new to blogging. I have seen posts early on from some of the posters above. You do owe these people big time apologies….and remember, some people do not post a lot….just read.
In the world of bloggers it is easy for one person to make many names to use and to sit and use them to talk to themselves in agreement…..to come back when banned from one name to another to talk good about themselves. The recently banned person admitted to doing just that under 5 different email addresses she made after being banned at another blog.
I chose to read what I want to read and I have clicked on the pages put up to discredit/slander/libel the professor and Crane. I also clicked on the tweets when they were first mentioned…but, chose not to read any of the bull shit being written on pages/twitter.
You do owe these people an apology and I hope you do give them one. It seems to me that discrediting this blog has become a full time job to many who exert much time to doing it.
We like to say that in our opinion a very deep wrong was committed against Trayvon. IMO tearing down a blog made to try to ascertain the truth of what happened continues to hurt Trayvon. For that I am very sad………
Sandra, Wow, I’m surprised to see my name listed as a possible troll and that I’ve contributed nothing except an attack on ajamazin. I related one fact re: ajamazin. Note, fact, not opinion.
I have made a few contributions, admittedly few and far between b/c the comments here are instructive. Sometimes my comments are in agreement and sometimes not. I found out a long time ago that just b/c someone is out front leading it doesn’t mean they know where they are going; therefore, I tend to think for myself and draw my own conclusions, or in many cases, my own questions. I know one or two others, as bloggers, on this blog b/c we also blog elsewhere.
B/c your list includes me, and I know that including me is bogus, I will assume that the inclusion of all others is also bogus. And, perhaps, you’re the troll. This paragraph is inflammatory but that’s what happens when you institute a witch hunt. I think the prof should shut down this thread, it has degenerated into something that is more destructive than helpful.
Don’t forget @rsone! Add him to “troll list”.
BettyKath is a well respected and very intelligent poster at the Jonathan Turley law blog. She’s a real person with highly relevant observations on a wide range of subjects.
thanks, Malisha
I am a long-time reader who saw some of Ajamazin’s tweets. I saw Ajamazin continue to manipulate and lie instead of admitting the truth. I saw Rnsone being unfairly persecuted by almost everyone. So I said something. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have.
TruthBeTold, I never cared for Ajamazin’s presence here. I don’t care much for Sandra’s either (assuming she isn’t Ajamazin). And Cielo is STILL calling Rnsone a troll. (one look at Rnsone’s twitter page makes it overwhelmingly clear that he is anything but.)
I prefer to read rather than write. I only write stuff when I feel like I have something in particular I can say. (Or I am accused of being a troll.)
@Stamina,
Oh I hear you. I ain’t studying it. You don’t have anything to prove to me.:).
Thank You.
I, too, am one of those who reads often and post little. I’ve been on vacation and am seeing *lots* of new names here but wouldn’t assume they are trolls simply because they are unfamiliar to me.
I would expect that Frederick has the power to see IP addresses so can easily determine when a banned poster attempts to reappear, providing they don’t have access to multiple machines or use an IP mask.
Welcome back, Verafish – Hope it was a wonderful vacation!
The Professor has new, exciting and informative topics up in the past week – welcome to the Study Hall!
We’re looking forward to your participation.
We learn from each other.
sandra – you and i have conversed together here many times and i just need to let you know that i cannot support this line of reasoning. i don’t think anyone was ‘out to get’ aja – rather her own self-destructive tendencies that i mentioned above just became too much for this community to bear.
Sandra, I’ve had exchanges with Dennis,
and have seen input from bettykath,
TM and MichelleO –
but please don’t ask me to dig them up from 2,000 e-mails.
We students do not own this blog.
We are guests here.
Frederick Leatherman is not just Decider in Chief,
he’s the ONLY Decider in Chief.
It’s his call.
Thank you Patricia. I agree with you, especially with the names you mentioned. SandraEG now jas me worried that perhaps she will point a finger next at me. I don’t want to be somewhete that people will be looking at me as a troll or potential troll all the time, especially when I might post something stupid, as I’m prone to do sometimes or have a differing opinion. I’m really uncomfortable now. I don’t have the analytical capacities or knowledge some here have but I enjoy reading what others say and sometimes add what I can, but i don’t know if I feel comfortable here anymore. Pointing fingers was one of the reasons I came here, to get away from that very kind of thing.
Thank you for your post though because it does help ease my fear some. But still, I think I will limit my I I will I will limit my participation and mostly just sot back quietly and leave it to the rest of you, I have nothing remarkable to add and don’t
Sorry, posting from my phone and it would not let me edit properly, just wanted to finish with I’m just gonna sit it out and be a spectator, I don’t want people to feel they should have to look up my previous comments to see if I belong.
Hoever, my fight for justice for Trayvon will always be with me. I’m sure I can find other ways and places i can take it.
Ya aint going no where girl! You are the official leatherette, aren’t you
No Hinkster, I’m not going anywhere. I was just upset last night at someone going down a list of posters, pointing fingers and calling them trolls. But I can’t go anywhere. I’m not here in any specialty capacity at all like some are. I am just a regular person and a mom, and I can (but only) imagine if my child had not come home one night, only to find he would never come home again. Trayvon’s mom will never be able to go away from that so I’m not going anywhere either until the truth comes out and justice is served.
Oh, and I’m a Suede. LOL Someone suggested Leathermam and the Suedes. I like that..
‘leatherman and the perSueders’
Exactly @Patricia and I respect that.
In my best Richard Nixon voice: I am not a troll! And if I am, baby I’m good lookin!
amen sister!
Funny stuff. =)
I’M STILL PISSED! BECAUSE I DON’T EVEN KNOW THE “REASON” SOMEONE WAS BANNED, MOST CERTAINLY NEVER SENT A COMPLAINT ABOUT ANYONE AND NEVER ADDRESSED ANYONE TO LIST THEM AS A TROLL OR DELIBERATELY TRY TO BRING ABOUT A DISRUPTION. EVEN THOUGH, I DO HAVE MY OWN OPINIONS I DO AT LEAST TRY TO BE CONSCIOUS OF THE OTHER PERSON I MAY DIFFER WITH. IF THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE HERE, THEN IT IS NOT WORTH THE TIME OF DAY. ANYONE HERE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GOOD ANGER MANAGEMENT?
LET THE PROFESSOR AND HIS WIFE MAKE THEIR OWN BLOG DECISIONS.
Yes! I have only posted here a few times, and have always been on topic and polite. I mainly prefer to read than to post, but have never bothered a soul while here. I, too, have been called a troll. Perhaps I should consider it an honor. Poster Sandra stated that I attacked Ajamazin, when she knows that’s not true. As a matter of fact, I defended her to Professor Leatherman, and asked that she stay if the facts were untrue. I even thanked her for her breadth of knowledge in some areas of the case. Why, if it hadn’t been for Ajamazin, I wouldn’t have gotten so hooked on the Trayvon Martin Tragedy in the first place. I told her all of this in this very forum. Sorry to get dragged into a hissy fit, but I will battle no one for a position as teacher’s pet. You can have it, because I believe you can admire a person without slobbering all over them.
MichelleO, you sure made a true statement I like very much
I too “believe you can admire a person without slobbering all over them”
Hi, good morning. There is no problem that I am aware of at all. I do not make decisions- I step in from time to time because the case fascinates me, and then sometimes I will comment to try to address something while he is working on a post. But anyway, no worries.
FWIW, I am trying to get up to speed on SCOTUS opinions and oral arguments, because I have an issue before them as a Certiorari petition. My published case has split the authority on long-standing US Supreme Court, US Sixth Circuit, KY Supreme Court and KY Court of Appeals decisions, and I am asking SCOTUS to resolve it. They rarely grant cert, though, so in the next step of the process I will have to write my own motion and brief, cite appropriate authority and sort and present issues. So, that is kind of my focus at the moment, in addition to writing essays about the Great Depression.
On Zimmerman. I think the jury selection will be critical. Pivotal. Both sides oughta hire jury experts and give it their best shot, IMO. For my Zimmerman case ‘fix’ of the week, in addition to reading Patricia’s wonderful analysis, I re-looked at the re-enactment, which is the gift that keeps on giving. I really wish that thing had gone on for hours. I am not in the least bit convinced that he moved and parked his car where he said. I have no idea what he was doing with the car at all. I was shocked to learn that no one snapped a photo, at least, of where and in what direction it was parked.
On depravity. I think we have that nicely boxed in with the after-the-shot behavior.
Thank you for your comment.
TM, there’s only one thing in your post that I know anything about, and that’s your question about anger management. There is actually one of those “this’n'that for dummies” books called “Anger Management for Dummies.” I wanted to buy it but it cost too much and that really made me mad!
(in response to Malisha 1:35 in case this reply gets lost in the virtual world)
you said: There is actually one of those “this’n’that for dummies” books called “Anger Management for Dummies.” I wanted to buy it but it cost too much and that really made me mad!
This whole incident shows exactly why the SPD took GZ’s side.
It is always easier to believe a “one of us” and always harder to believe a “one of them”.
It is a normal human bias, no matter on what features we’ve drawn the them/us dividing line.
The real test is to look at the evidence without looking at the source it comes from.
We can declare evidence unreliable if the source is PROVEN unreliable. We can’t declare the source unreliable just because we disagree with it or it’s on the “them” side.
What we want to hear, and what we don’t want to hear, both need the same diligence in checking out, BECAUSE we’re human and therefore biased and should know this about ourselves.
I believe that the SPD were operating as they always have: lazy and half-cocked. They had at least two incidences involving the children of police officers of SPD that there were very slow or reluctant to move on. Youtube has a video of the son of the last police chief before Chief Lee, who was beat a homeless man unconscienous, and he wasn’t arrested until a community outcry. I cannot remember the other incident at the moment, but SPD was operating by it’s own personal set of rules. Not unlike the South of the last mid-century, in which Klan members could be sitting judges, police sherriff’s, etc. That they held a lower view of black and brown people is a given; that they gave Zimmerfool complete carte blanche is painfully criminal and negligent.
I was appalled to learn of some of the stuff they did and did not do. The one that told witnesses that GZ was screaming is fortunate to still have a job, because witness tampering is a felony.
That’s just for starters.
The SPD needs to be investigated. And more charges need to be brought..
This is a really good point. Bias, etc. can get in the way temporarily, especially before objective evidence is reviewed and digested.
No one deserves an infinite blank check to take other people for granted and to repeatedly violate the Golden Rule with many people. When someone steps over the line and gets called out for it, what does he do? Does he swear at the person calling him out? Does he avoid answering questions that need to be answered? Does he make excuses that don’t fully address the questions? Does he get on his soapbox about supporting a big picture cause? That’s one approach. Does it look like the approach of someone who still wants to be welcomed to Professor Leatherman’s and Crane Station’s home, which is filled with respectful, mature people?
very astute observation, aussie.
Dag Sandra, you need to calm down and pay attention. I get that you liked Aja and appear not to be able to be objective, but pay attention. The bottom line is Professor Leatherman is the ultimate decider as it relates to his blog and he was in his right. Calling people trolls that have contributed, since, I’ve been here, is uncalled for. As much as Dennis post, you don’t recognize him? TM, bettykath, MichelleO, I believe LeeLee as well all contribute. Some more than others, but some people like to read the blogs more so than participate. That does not equate to a troll. I agree with the responses to you about this. That was offensive and quite unfounded and this post wasn’t asking for a list of “suspected trolls.”
To Rachael,
Continue to post and don’t let another poster make you feel any type of way. You contribute good stuff and I often respond to you.
I think a red flag is when one poster takes swipes at multiple other posters. It’s destructive and could be indicative of a troll.
It seems to me the Prof.’s actions here are a model of discretion for a blog author.
When the first report of Aja’s misbehavior appeared, it was only one source, and the evidence provided was a screen cap, which AFAIK had no identifiable provenance, and is something that could be easily forged (not that I would suggest rnsome was the source of any possible mischeif, but could have been fooled by ‘disinformation’…).
However, additional sources appeared, and verified that they had see the disturbing material themselves directly from Aja’s Twitter feed. With more than one source, and a verification of the conditions (i.e. NOT a screen cap), the preponderance of evidence points to actions that fall well within a blogger’s discretion to ban.
Of course, a blogger can ban anyone, but we expect a certain fairness on a law blog, and the Prof. has stated numerous times that he wants to keep this forum as open as possible within the bounds of civil discussion. We expect his actions to be consistent with his stated principles. And they are. If he errs at all in this, IMHO he errs on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt.
This is not a court of law, and the Prof. does not have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Ajamazin acted inappropriately. That said, even though it may be an improbable scenario, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Ajamazin’s Twitter account was hacked. Thus, while supporting the Prof.’s decision, I suggest contributors here should refrain from trashing Ajamazin, or imagining they “know for sure” what went on, for such the later is unwarranted hubris, and the former is just putting out fire with gasoline.
SEG:
I think it is unwarranted to assume someone is a troll for addressing the owner of the “Frederick Leatherman Law Blog” by his full first name.
That which we call “The Professor” would by any other name have the same authority — which comes from his demonstrated knowledge of the law, and the logic of his arguments.
It is not appropriate in a discursive forum such as this to address people with names or titles they find objectionable. But AFAIK, Prof. Leatherman has not indicated what, if any, terms of address he prefers, or what, if any, terms of address he might take exception too. In lieu of him actually weighing in on the subject, no one else needs to play blog cop and try to enforce their own code on other contributers.
And FWIW, IIRC LeeLee has been around for quite some time, making occasional contributions on a variety of subjects…
Thank you for acknowledging me whonoze.
Will someone please point out to me what SEG has actually contributed here on this post?
@ Xena
“There are some media reports saying that Trayvon dialed 911 within seconds of being murdered, that GZ is heard on the tape, and that the FBI has it. None of that has been confirmed by reputable sources. However, it gives me reason to question whether the SPD did receive a 911 call traced to Trayvon’s phone, therefore identifying him as the caller and the victim who was killed”.
This is mind-bugling, Xena. If I remember well, DeeDee was the last person Trayvon was on the phone with before the fateful encounter with Zimmerman. DeeDee heard Trayvons asking someone: “what are you following me for”, and a deep male voice replying: “what are you doing here”. At that very moment the struggle between Trayvon and Zimmerman started. For this reason, it seems improbable that Trayvon called 911/NEN that night. If Trayvon did make that call, it would not be seconds before he was murdered as that would contradict DeeDee’s account – unless Trayvon made the call before his last call with DeeDee or maybe managed to hit the numbers 911 on his phone while the struggle with Zimmerman was ongoing. All the happenings in this case have been so strange that one cannot reasonably rule anything out. I think Trayvon’s phone records will help clear the air. I doubt those records will be made public any time soon, but do you know if they have been disclosed to O’Mara.
I heard the rumor several months ago, and even kept a copy of the website that has the rumor. As of now, it still is just a rumor, but would be ever so yummy if true. This is probably why Dee Dee heard the struggle and the phone hitting what she described as grass sounds and movement began back and forth through it. Zimmerfool describes himself going for his phone to dial; but since he has a tendency to transfer conversations or actions in this case, to turn it upside down; it could pretty well have been Trayvon who reached for HIS phone to dial police, and Zimmerfool knocks it out of his hand.
I agree for the same reason. Can’t wait to get all the cell phone records and times and put things together that way.
It occurred to me that it was possible George confronted Trayvon by the T, Dee Dee heard a small conversation, and then Trayvon successfully got George onto the ground (causing enormous embarrassment, humiliation, and rage) and then took off at maximum speed to escape the creepy guy. Dialed 911 as he sped away, but then was somehow confronted either by George with his gun out (“Stop or I’ll shoot”) or otherwise, and at that SECOND confrontation, was shot, after screaming for help and pleading, whether due to fear or pain or both. I think George had his gun out almost as soon as he got up off the ground with his ego shaken. Just a theory. It might match the physical evidence, though.
@SearchingMind. Tracy Martin provided Trayvon’s phone log from T-Mobile. I have it and if I remember correctly, it is available on the axiomamnesia website. Some people see things on vids that I do not see, mainly because I’m unfamiliar with what I’m looking at. For instance, some people see in the 7-11 vid that Trayvon is wearing a headset. He reaches into his pocket opposite of the pocket where he kept his money, and some believe he was adjusting or doing something with his cell phone. DeeDee says that Trayvon must have been pushed knocking off his headset.
Thus, IF Trayvon had his cell phone in his pocket and was using a headset, it is my belief that we can and must question why his cell phone was found on the ground next to his body. His headset was not on the ground at the crime scene.
Idk about cell phone billing, so cannot verify, but have been told that calls to 911 are not billable and thus, do not show on phone logs.
The thing with the headset seems to me that Martin put it in his pocket because it was raining and he was running. That’s hard to do with a headset on and keep it secure and dry. GZ could have knocked the cell phone from his hand maybe to prevent him from calling the cops. That would also explain the cell phone was on the ground and the headset in his pocket.
LONGTIMEGEEK—
I know it couldn’t be Trayvon’s phone because he was talking to dee dee the whole time even up to the encounter with GZ. Has to GZ phone by accident or someone else was there for the INITIAL altercation. Someone’s phone taped that initial part of the incident. I believe that Tray knocked him on his butt and GZ was embarrassed that’s why he snapped out! Someone saw that original altercation, GZ lost control of the initial apprehension. Just like GZ told that lady cop, He doesn’t have that authoritative command like she may have, which is why she never had to shoot.
LONGTIMEGEEK–
When I first heard that clip and realized it was gone from the internet, I looked up what kind of phone Trayvon had and if it had that capability. It’s been awhile since i researched it but i remember finding it was possible but unlikely in his situation because it was too time consuming to set up considering his situation.
OMG ZENA!!!!
I have not wanted to repeat this because I’ve been blown off each time but I HEARD it with my own ears! I can’t remember if it was on the Randi Rhodes show or the Norman Goldman but it is out there!!! They have it! ABC has it then it was gone! I went through all of my podcasts search for it ! GONE! Though a clip on Randi saying she was going to play it and that ABC had it was still on the podcast but the tape was gone.
I KNOW I heard it because I said to my parter after hearing it, “can you believe this sh*t ” Then I never heard it replayed again!
I LOVE YOU XENA! I KNOW WHAT I HEARD!!!!!! Now you confirm it!!!!
Oh by the way, the part that was played was just as Dee Dee said it was. You hear Trayvon speak first, in an annoyed voice he says, “what are you following me for” and then you hear a man’s voice say ” what are you doing around here?” Then you hear muffled sounds and GET OFF! GET OFF! I rememeber hearing it because I cried!!!!!
Sorry so excited lots of typos!
logi – Whoa. Are you saying you heard a recording of the actual event?
So, TM’s 911 tape may be real, and there may also be another recording? Does anyone know what kind of cell phone TM had? Could he talk to DeeDee and record at the same time?
Longtime geek-
I’m not real savvy on how to respond but I posted I don’”t believe it was from Trayvons phone because it was exactly what DeeDee said so it couldn’t have been both. There may have been more than just GZ and Trayvon there at that point of the altercation. Could have come from “White shirt guy’s phone” I think who ever it came from didn’t know it was recorded..Could this be why Tafee is drinking so much or statements are being retracted. I think this story is much uglier than just Zimmerman.
logi – I’m just thinking out loud. Did GZ’s own phone somehow record the event? That would be so ironic. Did someone else somehow record the event? I asked about TM’s phone, because I was wondering if he had a phone in which he could talk and record at the same time. I’m such a techno-feeb that I don’t know if any phone can do this. But, I do know that there are phones in which you can talk and, e.g., use a talking GPS app at the same time. If TM did have a phone in which he could talk and record at the same time, it makes sense that he would start a recording of a creepy guy following him.
It was pulled off the air almost immediately. Are you people sure it wasn’t a “re-enactment” based on the interviews with DeeDee? precisely the sort of messing about they’d have to stop broadcasting, after the incidents with the edited tapes. If there was a tape version of DeeDee’s convo with Trayvon, it would be in the official evidence.
aussie – I hadn’t even heard of a recording that overlapped DeeDee’s interviews before. So, it piqued my interest. But, I’m not convinced of anything without a good source or two. For example, the media has put out a lot of misinformation. So, I think we have to wait and see.
OK! Well, I just got back from a lovely weekend at the lake and find there’s all sorts of drama. Since it’s the prof’s house and his right to ban whomever he feels necessary for whatever reason he feels necessary, good enough.
That said, I’d like to make three quick points, if I may:
1. Trayvon’s phone would’nt need to be able to record. He could have made a 3way call, and it would have been recorded by 911, just like the other calls. OR, DeeDee could have made a 3way call. Either way, the call audio file would have also included DeeDee’s voice.
2. ABC did report a 911 call from Trayvon’s phone. What struck me was they had details (feds had it, needed to be enhanced, GZ’s voice in the background). The video of that report has disappeared, but some sites have the audio from the report (not the call) and I have posted a link to one below (takes a minute to load).
3. In the hearing with the media intervenors attempting to get all evidence released, the 911 calls(among other evidence) were addressed. Note the defense AND the prosecution did not want them to be released. BUT, since they had already been released to the public, no further order was given by JKL addressing the issue.
This bothers me on a couple of fronts(assuming said call exists and was/is in the hands of the feds) someone with a legal background would probably need to address. Is the term “911 calls” all-encompassing? If there was a 911 call that had not been released, does the fact that JKL made no finding on the “911 calls” issue have any bearing on this unreleased call, and if so what bearing? IF there is a 911 call that was in the hands of the feds, at the time of the hearing, and not in the evidentiary custody of the state, what bearing does that have? How long can the prosecution wait before it must be turned over in discovery?
(Nef)
Link to the audio of the report from ABC affiliate:
http://soundcloud.com/the-mokelly-radio-report/abc7-chicago-acknowledges?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=mshare&utm_medium=facebook&utm_content=http%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fthe-mokelly-radio-report%2Fabc7-chicago-acknowledges
To quote Rodney King and many people I know ” …can’t we just all get along?” and get back to the case? There is a point where humans tend to over think ! It’s not healthy,
Several people already have. Why don’t you do the same?
?????????
This might be of interest. It is about Osterman’s book and the implications of it legally on the case.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/9/1/221432/1505
Rachael, I read some of the supposedly book @ the tree site and laughed out loud. Admittedly, I just skimmed the surface of first….it being posted by someone who will not admit who they are…..then the part of one chapter…..what a joke! I finally figured out how to put up an avatar….click on it and see the two young boys from 2 years ago. They could write a better book than what I read. Lol
If, Osterman does admit it is from him…maybe he’s already admitted…didn’t care to waste my reading time on it….then I agree on the big difference in the account of Georgie Porgie’s actions that night vs what Osterman has said previously…..and look forward to the legal eagle’s telling us can it be used against him for perjury.
Well this article brings up some interesting legal questions with regard to the book. Ughhh. I gotta get some coffee in me.
Thank you for the link, Rachael. I am not sure I have any desire to read the book though, lol!
But did you read the story? It raises some interesting questions with legality regarding the book. Will they be able to use it to impeach GZ? Should there be a gag order (if one could even be imposed)? I did read the link the story had to the first chapter, it was ridiculous – but what was interesting is, apparently he told his friend something different than the other versions he told the police.
But with regard to the is it time for a gag order part, I just cannot understand why the Zimmerman camp keeps complaining about being tried by the media when they are putting it all out there in every form of media possible – unless their strategy is to say he cannot get a fair trial period – then where would that leave things, just getting the fairest trial possible?
Rachel, It’s more likely that the book can be used to impeach Osterman’s testimony if he decides to change his story. Even though Osterman claims it’s what Zimmerman says, Zimmerman hasn’t said anything about the veracity of the book.
I’ve read the two chapters that were put up and Osterman’s account is quite different from Zimmerman’s many stories. We don’t know if the source of Osterman’s version is Zimmerman’s imagination or his own.
It boggles my mind that a “best friend” who is also a former LEO wouldn’t advise his friend to shut up and get a lawyer. Innocent or guilty, shut up and get a lawyer. And don’t tell me your story b/c I can be called as a witness against you but not for you.
and here is about Trayvon calling 911
http://sandrarose.com/2012/03/did-trayvon-martin-call-911-before-he-was-shot/
For those of us who followed the Anthony trial….we all remember the FBI is not legally bound by the Sunshine Laws in Florida to release evidence to the public….so, what the FBI has on this case…in all probability…some has not been released to the PUBLIC…And that could account for it being pulled off air so quickly…jmo
Speaking of that wasn’t a document dump supposed to come soon…and the “soon” is now past? Ty for the links.
Exactly, that was the reason I continued to say the FBI (as reported) claimed GZ didn’t use “coons.” He did use that vile word. Mysteriously, Angela Corey made sure it was in the affidavit she was told (in my opinion) to minimize that statement to calm racial tension. The FBI do not have to abide by Florida twisted laws that make absolutely no sense. FBI has proof of a hate crime and GZ knows it and so does Mark O’Mara.
GZ profiled Trayvon Martin and kill the child all because of skin color and his warp mind set feed by his parents. They continually covered him and GZ needed counseling especially after learning he molested his cousin.
Mark O’Mara and Shellie Zimmerman lawyer will play the judge to get them both off. It is so frustrating. Florida is corrupt…
Hi Hinkster4ever!
Here is a couple of tweet I copied fromTwitter about Trayvon’s 9-1-1 call.
March 24, 2012 at 9:07 am
HighTea @_HighTea:
@ReignOfApril FBI is enhancing TM’s call to 911 to hear GZ’s voice! That call went to county, not to local police, because made from cell
March 24, 2012 at 8:45 am
zizi2 @zizii2:
@ChrisLHayes confirms #Trayvon 911 call before he was shot, according to FBI investigations. Wow!
@hinkster4ever
March 24, 2012 at 9:08 am
HighTea @_HighTea:
@ReignOfApril First officer on scene quoted possible manslaughter charge. Officer in charge later on scene said no.
Thank you for such good news SouthernGirl!
@Rachael,
I copied those tweets from Twitter back in March and then things went silent about that call. ABC scraped their video about it and Daily Kos had a post up about it and later took it down. AFAIK, no one gave an explanation why.
It wouldn’t surprise me — not at all. From the time that I watched SA Corey’s press conference announcing 2nd degree murder charges, I said the State has evidence that the public may not know about until the immunity hearing. I look at Angela Corey and see a very confident person, whose smile speaks to GZ, “I got you. I got you good. Just keep going through the motions because at the end, I got you.”
Now I’m also hoping that the paramedics threw the material they used to clean GZ up with in the first aid kit. If so, and if it is tested, it might return a result that the blood cleaned off GZ was actually Trayvon’s blood. Holding his head my foot!! GZ has to explain how he didn’t know whether he shot Trayvon, but someone managed to get Trayvon’s blood on his jacket sleeve.
Xena what gets me is when you realize that GZ was never actually TREATED for anything. He was cleaned up. no cold pack for his broken nose, no band aid for his boo boo’s. Not even a band aid Xena? fight for his life indeed!
OK, thanks no prob! For the record, my purpose was never to “dig dirt” on no one. Everything was there on twitter, a simple search of “#leatherman” brought it up(which is how I search on twitter via the discover tab, whenever checking for a new post), and I spent maybe a total of ten minutes on this. A special thanks to everyone that supported me and let’s get back to the real reason all of us are here.Oh yeah,BTW, its rnsone…
Thank you rnsone.
Wb! Can I be nosy and ask are you an RN too….lol
Lol,no I’m not.
SANDRA: I read and post on 2 different blogs, BCClist and here. While it is true that I do not post at length and as regularly as some here do, let me assure you that I have read EVERY single post on this blog. I have gained a lot of valuable insight regarding the case and am just as good a student of the professor’s as you are Sandra.
When I independantly corroborated the said tweets, I did so in good faith and with evidence to back it up which I submitted to the professor privately. Furthermore her public and plausible deniabilty was akin to “I wasn’t following him, I was just going in the same direction”.
The professor was being slandered and people on this blog were falsely being labelled as trolls just like you are doing now. So kindly refrain from shh’shing me, like you did yesterday, when you don’t have any facts.
SANDRA: I read and post on 2 different blogs, BCClist and here. While it is true that I do not post at length and as regularly as some here do, let me assure you that I have read EVERY single post on this blog. I have gained a lot of valuable insight regarding the case and am just as good a student of the professor’s as you are Sandra.
When I independantly corroborated the said tweets, I did so in good faith and with evidence to back it up which I submitted to the professor privately. Furthermore her public and plausible deniabilty was akin to “I wasn’t following him, I was just going in the same direction”.
The professor was being slandered and people on this blog were falsely being labelled as trolls just like you are doing now. So kindly refrain from shh’shing me, like you did yesterday, when you don’t have any facts.
I’ll make another donation if this thread is closed…..
: ^ )
LOL, yes! He is briefly writing a comment, and then will move to a topic! (probably a legal issue, but I do not know at the moment)
Thanks Crane,
This thread has gone wacko! LOL
I love this blog. Love reading comments from you and others and would like to go back to some Law and Order. : ^ ))
HaHA. Off. the. hook!
You are a hoot!!
Me too! Trolls should be banned, not discussed. Time-wasting discussions like this are exactly what trolls are trying to accomplish.
Exactly Dave!
I already have my credit card right by my computer. LOL : ^ )
Greetings everyone.
I do not want to say anything more. I want to turn down the heat so that we can refocus on the task that brought us here.
No one here is under suspicion of anything and I hope y’all will refrain from sniping at each other.
I am working on another legal blog that I hope to post within the hour.
Namaste
THANK YOU!!
I will wait until the Professor post the new blog.. Lets get back to the Trayvon Case and I will repost my last post on new blog page.
I am taking a rest it is WOW on this page now… Don’t understand what happened and can’t figure it out completely. Maybe a drink will help at this point.
Ill return…
Alcohol fogs the mind so you don’t care. Coffee excites (and slows the effects of alcohol). Water helps clear the mind. Chamomile tea calms. I have no idea who you are but allow me a minute to imagine you drinking each of these in turn. : )
I was refering to drinking a hot cup of “Hibiscus Tea mixed with Black Tea.” Im vegan…
I’m generally on the JQ TM thread and have subscribed to this blog after some posters over there linked to it. I love the legal analysis done here. Having said that, I’d like to recommend the YT site for one of the more analytical JQ posters, if that’s ok. I highly recommend it. For example, in one video, LLMPapa has managed to enhance the video with the 911 call with the gun shot where Jeremy is heard saying something that sounds similar to “He warned me to stay away”. I’m wondering if the prosecution could use the analysis done by average armchair forensic analysts in a trial and how likely they would do so. This seems like free forensics that they could use experts to highlight for accuracy. Well, anywhoo, here’s the link: http://www.youtube.com/user/LLMPapa/videos
Which video are you referring to Miss Sandi? I would like to listen to the enhanced 911 where you hear ” He warned me to stay away”.
Thanks
Brown
I can’t remember which one but give me time…may have to ask LLMPapa.
Thanks, I await your response.
Jeremy Get IN Here NOW!
Thank you. : ^ )
I listened and I hear it. I also hear alot of hard breathing. Why would the caller or Jeremy be breathing hard ?
@SG2,
Thanks. That was one of the recent videos I listened to by LLMPapa. Sounds like Jeremy is saying something about the interior? Honestly, I don’t like listening to the audio with the screams. Not really convinced yet that he was outside or that he said something about a warning.
I think this might be it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ieiT5L-LU
Thanks
Thanks Sandi. Hmmmm…..too difficult to tell plus, it sounds chopped.
Hi Sandi,
We all know about LLMPapa; definitely a fan. Thank you.
Yes…JQ forum member LOVE his stuff!
Papa is awesome. He has put much time and effort into pursuing justice for Trayvon. I hope Trayvon’s family realizes how committed to justice people really are for him.
LLMPapa rocks!
Patricia, There is a brief reference to emails on your 9/2 @ 3:54 entry. It came about in response to SEG. It appears she has asked you for emails of “trolls” I sincerely hope it is not true that email access has been made available outside the confidentiality and trusted Professor Leatherman, because as at other blog locations this has brought about demise of a lot of hard work. Will you please clarify?
Also, I am interested in what constitutes “student” over others here
which has been briefly mentioned, there and there in reference to yourself and a couple others. As with the Casey Anthony, any theory or speculation I have had, has become a repeat, repeat of myself to where I have the most interest in what others have in their difference. Yours and others are excellent input after which there is little to restate especially when the legal actions are quiet as at present.
I believe George Zimmerman deliberately, without hesitation made a conscious decision to shoot Trayvon Martin but until this case is presented in trial, exactly what I believe is of no value unless at that time it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Then, it can be
my personal gratification only. Exactly how this shooting was done
could only be confirmed by Trayvon himself, unfortunately, without him, we wait for the justice due him, which can never replace Trayvon himself.
Thank you
I’m in the same limbo, TM. I have competing theories in my head, thinking some are less probable than others but am on analysis paralysis and really wan to see what the prosecution does with all the evidence. I hope most of us won’t be disappointed but still feel if the Prosecution KISI (h/t to aussie) they can still prevail.
TM, when I write to you and others I click the box at the bottom, requesting follow-up on all replies (all responses to everyone by everyone), by e-mail.
So everybody’s input comes to me by individual e-mail. I do not receive the e-mail address of the writers. I can reply to you only via the blog. As I am doing now.
I refer to all of us (except the Professor) as “students.” When I send in an article based on reviewing documents (separate from responding to a fellow student) I look at it as a term paper.
I look at the group participating here somewhat like a medieval university, with a sense of collegiality. We may get off track at times, a little personal or a little kidding around, but I sense we are here with both a thirst for knowledge and a thirst for justice.
I expect us to honor one another’s differences as long as we pursue academic freedom in the search for truth and justice on the subject at hand: the death of Trayvon Martin.
It is through those differences that can expand our knowledge.
As an example, we are getting good technical input from gun owners, although I expect the majority of students here do not own guns (although I do). We are getting good input from health-care professionals, based on their experience — something most of us have no exposure to in our own careers.
And are we not all stunned by WhoNoze’s audio expertise? Wow!
Superb commentaries from attorneys and other experienced in the legal assistance field, in addition to the mentoring by our Professor Leatherman.
I use the term “Professor” to note his special role as mentor.
On a personal note, I have always been opposed to the crudeness of the phrase, “You guys” (or even “You guys and gals.”)
So I choose to honor everyone’s partcipation
by calling us “students.”
ITABY? (“Is that alright by you?”)
Thanks, TM – it’s good to sit in class with you!
No one has to call me Professor.
FYI: I was employed full time as an Associate Professor of Law in a tenure track position at the Barkley Law School when the school went under. Although I was fired for blowing the whistle on the dean and assistant dean for operating a Ponzi scheme skimming student living expense money, I was reinstated with full back pay and benefits after they were removed and the school changed its name to Barkley School of Law. Basically the deans left the school in such bad financial shape that it ran out of money and suspended operations.
FYI~~some contributors receive all the comments made to a blog via email. ( little box at bottom you can tick off- Notify me of follow-up comments via email.) I believe these are the emails that Patricia is referring to. She will correct me if I am wrong if that is not what she meant.
A blog owner has access to all the email addys of his/her contributors. The owner will never give out an email address unless the owner is authorized to do so by that person.
IMO, any person who seeks knowledge is a student. Mr Leatherman can become a student when he does research and investigates and gains knowledge in doing so. In the long run, we can all be students at one time or another. We can all be teachers when he share our knowledge. Now being a professor is a bit out of most of our leagues expect for Mr Leatherman who has earned that title.
stu·dent
[stood-nt, styood-]
noun
1.
a person formally engaged in learning, especially one enrolled in a school or college; pupil: a student at Yale.
2.
any person who studies, investigates, or examines thoughtfully: a student of human nature.
sry typo….*except not expect
I have a new post up:
Zimmerman: Understanding the Miranda Rule
Thanks Professor!!
Thank you Patricia, you have social class from which we all benefit. Well covered and appreciated.
Thank you also Mainstreamfair, I don’t expect to reach the level of those who have previously given a great amount of time to this interest and sharing.
I’m a little late to this news but am glad to hear it. In point of fact, she did call another poster (who had subsequently been banned) a “fucking liar” and she claimed innocence when that was pointed out to her.