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	<title>Comments on: Is the University of Colorado Potentially Liable to Holmes&#8217;s Victims?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/</link>
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		<title>By: darkknightoracle</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-12110</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[darkknightoracle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-12110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“Missing Hardball Video Proves Corbin Dates Did Not ID James Holmes As Man Seen In Theater 9 Prior To Shooting.”

breaking now…

http://darkknighttruth.wordpress.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Missing Hardball Video Proves Corbin Dates Did Not ID James Holmes As Man Seen In Theater 9 Prior To Shooting.”</p>
<p>breaking now…</p>
<p><a href="http://darkknighttruth.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://darkknighttruth.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: ajamazin</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-7090</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ajamazin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 00:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-7090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a time for those at the University to ask Rabbi Hillel&#039;s 3 Questions:

If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

But if I am only for myself, who am I?

If not now, when?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a time for those at the University to ask Rabbi Hillel&#8217;s 3 Questions:</p>
<p>If I am not for myself, who will be for me?</p>
<p>But if I am only for myself, who am I?</p>
<p>If not now, when?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ajamazin</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-7088</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ajamazin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 00:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-7088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Former University of Colorado student James Holmes was referred to a threat team at his school weeks before he killed 12 people in a deadly theater shooting.

Holmes, 24, was seeing school psychiatrist Dr. Lynne Fenton in the week&#039;s leading up to the shooting. Fenton, alarmed by Holmes and worried about a possible violent streak, warned the school&#039;s Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment (BETA) team, the Denver Post reported this week.&quot;

What more could Dr Fenton have done?

In Florida, Dr Fenton  could have &quot;Baker Acted&quot; Holmes, or a concerned member of the school community who had contact w. Holmes could have gone to the court house and  filed a Petition and Affidavit Seeking ExParte Order Requiring Involuntary Examination.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Former University of Colorado student James Holmes was referred to a threat team at his school weeks before he killed 12 people in a deadly theater shooting.</p>
<p>Holmes, 24, was seeing school psychiatrist Dr. Lynne Fenton in the week&#8217;s leading up to the shooting. Fenton, alarmed by Holmes and worried about a possible violent streak, warned the school&#8217;s Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment (BETA) team, the Denver Post reported this week.&#8221;</p>
<p>What more could Dr Fenton have done?</p>
<p>In Florida, Dr Fenton  could have &#8220;Baker Acted&#8221; Holmes, or a concerned member of the school community who had contact w. Holmes could have gone to the court house and  filed a Petition and Affidavit Seeking ExParte Order Requiring Involuntary Examination.</p>
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		<title>By: Frederick Leatherman</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-6997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frederick Leatherman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 01:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-6997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a new post up:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/holmes-does-the-colorado-statute-bar-recovery/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holmes: Does the Colorado Statute Bar Recovery?&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a new post up:</p>
<p><a href="http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/holmes-does-the-colorado-statute-bar-recovery/" rel="nofollow">Holmes: Does the Colorado Statute Bar Recovery?</a></p>
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		<title>By: justincaselawgic</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-6921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[justincaselawgic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-6921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Prof,

I&#039;m not sure if you meant that you had no access to LexisNexis at the moment you typed this or at all. If the latter, here is LexisNexis Colorado Laws, Constitution and Revised Statutes:

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/

You can do a quick search for &quot;civil liability mental health&quot; and it will find the relevant statute for you. Incidentally, I posted the statute above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if you meant that you had no access to LexisNexis at the moment you typed this or at all. If the latter, here is LexisNexis Colorado Laws, Constitution and Revised Statutes:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/" rel="nofollow">http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/</a></p>
<p>You can do a quick search for &#8220;civil liability mental health&#8221; and it will find the relevant statute for you. Incidentally, I posted the statute above.</p>
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		<title>By: justincaselawgic</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-6920</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[justincaselawgic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-6920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perreira is a bit old. I would suggest McCarty v. Kaiser-Hill or Halverson v. Pikes Peak Family Counseling and Mental
Health Center. 

Also, here is the relevant statute:

§ 13-21-117. Civil liability - mental health care providers - no duty

A physician, social worker, psychiatric nurse, psychologist, or other mental health professional and a mental health hospital, community mental health center or clinic, institution, or their staff shall not be liable for damages in any civil action for failure to warn or protect any person against a mental health patient&#039;s violent behavior, and any such person shall not be held civilly liable for failure to predict such violent behavior, except where the patient has communicated to the mental health care provider a serious threat of imminent physical violence against a specific person or persons. When there is a duty to warn and protect under the circumstances specified above, the duty shall be discharged by the mental health care provider making reasonable and timely efforts to notify any person or persons specifically threatened, as well as notifying an appropriate law enforcement agency or by taking other appropriate action including, but not limited to, hospitalizing the patient. A physician, social worker, psychiatric nurse, psychologist, or other mental health professional and a mental health hospital, community mental health center or clinic, institution, or their staff shall not be liable for damages in any civil action for warning any person against or predicting a mental health patient&#039;s violent behavior, and any such person shall not be subject to professional discipline for such warning or prediction. For the purposes of this section, &quot;psychiatric nurse&quot; means a registered professional nurse as defined in section 12-38-103(11), C.R.S., who by virtue of postgraduate education and additional nursing preparation has gained knowledge, judgment, and skill in psychiatric or mental health nursing. The provisions of this section shall not apply to the negligent release of a mental health patient from any mental health hospital or ward or to the negligent failure to initiate involuntary seventy-two-hour treatment and evaluation after a personal patient evaluation determining that the person appears to have a mental illness and, as a result of the mental illness, appears to be an imminent danger to others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perreira is a bit old. I would suggest McCarty v. Kaiser-Hill or Halverson v. Pikes Peak Family Counseling and Mental<br />
Health Center. </p>
<p>Also, here is the relevant statute:</p>
<p>§ 13-21-117. Civil liability &#8211; mental health care providers &#8211; no duty</p>
<p>A physician, social worker, psychiatric nurse, psychologist, or other mental health professional and a mental health hospital, community mental health center or clinic, institution, or their staff shall not be liable for damages in any civil action for failure to warn or protect any person against a mental health patient&#8217;s violent behavior, and any such person shall not be held civilly liable for failure to predict such violent behavior, except where the patient has communicated to the mental health care provider a serious threat of imminent physical violence against a specific person or persons. When there is a duty to warn and protect under the circumstances specified above, the duty shall be discharged by the mental health care provider making reasonable and timely efforts to notify any person or persons specifically threatened, as well as notifying an appropriate law enforcement agency or by taking other appropriate action including, but not limited to, hospitalizing the patient. A physician, social worker, psychiatric nurse, psychologist, or other mental health professional and a mental health hospital, community mental health center or clinic, institution, or their staff shall not be liable for damages in any civil action for warning any person against or predicting a mental health patient&#8217;s violent behavior, and any such person shall not be subject to professional discipline for such warning or prediction. For the purposes of this section, &#8220;psychiatric nurse&#8221; means a registered professional nurse as defined in section 12-38-103(11), C.R.S., who by virtue of postgraduate education and additional nursing preparation has gained knowledge, judgment, and skill in psychiatric or mental health nursing. The provisions of this section shall not apply to the negligent release of a mental health patient from any mental health hospital or ward or to the negligent failure to initiate involuntary seventy-two-hour treatment and evaluation after a personal patient evaluation determining that the person appears to have a mental illness and, as a result of the mental illness, appears to be an imminent danger to others.</p>
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		<title>By: aussie</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-6916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aussie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-6916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see. You&#039;re saying the duty of care arises not from Holme&#039;s position there as a student or resident.

The University has liability of some sort,  only because the doctor worked in/ran the student mental health clinic? 

So, say she warned the University but they did nothing, they are still liable.  What f they warned the police and THEY did nothing, are they liable?  or is it designed to put liability only on those entities who might be  profitably sued? 

Have there been any cases where  being warned actually saved someone?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see. You&#8217;re saying the duty of care arises not from Holme&#8217;s position there as a student or resident.</p>
<p>The University has liability of some sort,  only because the doctor worked in/ran the student mental health clinic? </p>
<p>So, say she warned the University but they did nothing, they are still liable.  What f they warned the police and THEY did nothing, are they liable?  or is it designed to put liability only on those entities who might be  profitably sued? </p>
<p>Have there been any cases where  being warned actually saved someone?</p>
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		<title>By: Chi</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-6901</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-6901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Professor, where did you get the info that Holmes decision to withdraw was apparently related to the recent onset of schizophrenia? 
I have also been wondering if it was confirmed that Holmes was a patient of Fenton? It seems many people are assuming he was a patient, but without confirmation I think other things are possible. Holmes may have known Fenton outside of being a patient. Didn&#039;t Holmes study mental illness at one point? Maybe his connection to Fenton was for initially for academic reasons?
There is still a lot I would like to know about Holmes. He planned his crimes for months. Does that seem like a psychotic break from reality such as schizophrenia? I really don&#039;t know, but am interested in learning. I&#039;d also like to know if Holmes made a general threat to Fenton, or threatened her personally. The sending of the notebook, possibly knowing it would arrive after the fact makes me wonder if he was trying to purposely hurt Fenton by involving her in this mess. 
Still a lot to learn about this guy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor, where did you get the info that Holmes decision to withdraw was apparently related to the recent onset of schizophrenia?<br />
I have also been wondering if it was confirmed that Holmes was a patient of Fenton? It seems many people are assuming he was a patient, but without confirmation I think other things are possible. Holmes may have known Fenton outside of being a patient. Didn&#8217;t Holmes study mental illness at one point? Maybe his connection to Fenton was for initially for academic reasons?<br />
There is still a lot I would like to know about Holmes. He planned his crimes for months. Does that seem like a psychotic break from reality such as schizophrenia? I really don&#8217;t know, but am interested in learning. I&#8217;d also like to know if Holmes made a general threat to Fenton, or threatened her personally. The sending of the notebook, possibly knowing it would arrive after the fact makes me wonder if he was trying to purposely hurt Fenton by involving her in this mess.<br />
Still a lot to learn about this guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Frederick Leatherman</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-6876</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frederick Leatherman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 04:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-6876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aussie,

The Terasoff duty to warn or protect only applies to the therapist in a therapist-patient relationship.

The duty is created if, in the course of treatment, the patient expresses to the therapist a serious threat to harm or kill an identifiable person.

If that happens, the therapist must make a reasonable effort to protect the identifiable person by contacting them, a member of their family,, or the police to warn them about the threat. The therapist breaches the duty if he fails to do that.

If the patient carries out the threat by injuring or killing the identified person and the therapist&#039;s negligent failure to warn or protect the victim proximately causes those injuries, the therapist is liable for the harm suffered by the victim.

If this happened in the Holmes case, the University of Colorado would be liable for the damages caused by the tort of its employees committed in the regular course of their employment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aussie,</p>
<p>The Terasoff duty to warn or protect only applies to the therapist in a therapist-patient relationship.</p>
<p>The duty is created if, in the course of treatment, the patient expresses to the therapist a serious threat to harm or kill an identifiable person.</p>
<p>If that happens, the therapist must make a reasonable effort to protect the identifiable person by contacting them, a member of their family,, or the police to warn them about the threat. The therapist breaches the duty if he fails to do that.</p>
<p>If the patient carries out the threat by injuring or killing the identified person and the therapist&#8217;s negligent failure to warn or protect the victim proximately causes those injuries, the therapist is liable for the harm suffered by the victim.</p>
<p>If this happened in the Holmes case, the University of Colorado would be liable for the damages caused by the tort of its employees committed in the regular course of their employment.</p>
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		<title>By: lynp</title>
		<link>http://frederickleatherman.com/2012/08/02/is-the-university-of-colorado-potentially-liable-to-holmess-victims/#comment-6874</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lynp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 04:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/?p=573#comment-6874</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We don&#039;t know whether or not Holmes would have turned out clean. Sadly, no 72 hour hold or deeper psych testing to evaluate Holemes capability to present a threat to others was done. Hard to see a worse conclusion then what did happen at the theatre with 12 dying and scores wounded occured had the Crisis Assement Team actually been more assertive and proactive in assessing Holmes. No, can&#039;t hold them forever but can collect more evidence of his Mental Illness and hold them longer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t know whether or not Holmes would have turned out clean. Sadly, no 72 hour hold or deeper psych testing to evaluate Holemes capability to present a threat to others was done. Hard to see a worse conclusion then what did happen at the theatre with 12 dying and scores wounded occured had the Crisis Assement Team actually been more assertive and proactive in assessing Holmes. No, can&#8217;t hold them forever but can collect more evidence of his Mental Illness and hold them longer.</p>
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